Latest / Brett Keane and Eve Show / Debate Kent Hovind vs Mark Reid "Ark - Fact or Fiction"

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Debate Kent Hovind vs Mark Reid "Ark - Fact or Fiction" · Brett Keane and Eve Show

• 1:14
  OK, we're live and I want to welcome everybody to Standing
• 1:17
  for Truth. I am your host, Donnie, and we
• 1:20
  are here tonight for the Epic debate, the main event between
• 1:24
  Doctor Kent Hoeven and Mark Reed.
• 1:27
  Tonight we are debating the topic Noah's Ark and Noah's
• 1:30
  Flood. Fact or fiction?
• 1:33
  Mark and Kent, thank you so much for giving us your time for this
• 1:37
  epic, epic debate. Thank you, Johnny.
• 1:40
  I appreciate it. Thank you.
• 1:41
  I appreciate it. Now before we get some
• 1:43
  introductions and kind of get to know the debaters a little bit,
• 1:45
  I want to remind everybody that today is the the, the first part
• 1:50
  of kind of a two day event more. We've got another epic debate, a
• 1:54
  creation related debate. We've got Doctor Kenny Rhodes
• 1:56
  back here with us. He debated Dr. Holvin few weeks
• 1:59
  back. He'll be debating Matt Powell,
• 2:01
  young Earth creation versus young Earth creation.
• 2:04
  So old Earth creation versus young Earth creation.
• 2:06
  So that's going to kick off same time 8 EST.
• 2:09
  So that being said, let's get to know the debaters a little bit.
• 2:12
  I can't. You've been here before many
• 2:14
  times before, Mark. You've been here before as well.
• 2:17
  Two season debater. So why don't we start with
• 2:19
  Doctor Hoeven? Thanks for being here.
• 2:21
  How's everything going on over at Dell?
• 2:24
  Oh, thank you for having me again.
• 2:25
  Oh, God is good. Some of God's kids drive me
• 2:28
  crazy. But God is good down as Richland
• 2:31
  is busy. People coming from all over the
• 2:32
  world to visit our place and been amazing.
• 2:34
  We've got 179 baptized in our lake now.
• 2:37
  And we just keep winning souls and building stuff.
• 2:39
  And it's amazing. Come down, you gotta come visit.
• 2:41
  They don't let you out of Canada, will they?
• 2:43
  Canadians can't get out of your hostage in your own country.
• 2:47
  But anyway, doing very well, building the whole thing.
• 2:50
  But five years now and we're loving it here.
• 2:53
  Awesome. Awesome.
• 2:54
  Well, thank you Kent, for your introduction.
• 2:57
  And you've got a big event coming up, don't you?
• 2:59
  Next month or in a couple months, you got all the atheists
• 3:01
  from around the world coming over to Dowell to take you on.
• 3:03
  Isn't that right? I've invited him.
• 3:06
  Oh, they come. Yeah, they're all on Mark.
• 3:08
  Maybe we'll see you there. Yeah, It's a long way for me to
• 3:12
  go. So, Mark, thank you as well for
• 3:15
  giving us your time for this debate.
• 3:17
  I know it's really early in the morning for you all the way in
• 3:20
  Australia, so I appreciate a little bit about yourself for
• 3:22
  the audience, Mark. Oh yeah, I'm just, I'm just
• 3:26
  average Internet denizen getting on and debating.
• 3:29
  I think. I think seasoned debater is a
• 3:31
  bit of a stretch to be honest with you is this is my 4th
• 3:34
  debate or something, But I really enjoy it.
• 3:36
  I love talking to people. And yeah, generally I do have a
• 3:41
  YouTube account, I'll send it over to you.
• 3:44
  And that's really and Amy Newman's channel is where you
• 3:47
  would usually find me lurking around asking very, very
• 3:50
  difficult questions. So I'd love to see more people.
• 3:54
  Leave it there and love to see you all and hopefully you know
• 3:57
  we can we can answer some of those questions I have.
• 4:02
  Awesome, I appreciate. I appreciate it.
• 4:03
  Well, before I get into the format actually Dr. Hoeven, I'm
• 4:07
  not sure on your end if you can turn up the volume a little bit.
• 4:10
  Couple people in the chat we're saying your your audio is not
• 4:13
  quite as as loud as usual. OK, how's that testing 1-2
• 4:19
  Three. I tried right one of those days.
• 4:24
  One does rock out Sexy set Wait. Nope.
• 4:28
  And at the at the attested appendant Okay, I would say, I
• 4:32
  would say that's an improvement on my end.
• 4:34
  What? About you sounds good.
• 4:36
  Yep, Yep. I can hear Chant loud and clear.
• 4:39
  Okay. Perfect.
• 4:40
  Well, that being said, then they got those issues out of the way.
• 4:43
  So format for tonight, we've got 12 minute opening statements.
• 4:46
  Mark's going to be kicking us off with his opening statement.
• 4:49
  Then we've got roughly 6 to 8 minute rebuttals.
• 4:52
  Then we're going to have an open discussion where the debaters
• 4:55
  are asking each other questions relevant to the topic.
• 4:59
  We're going to keep it, of course, as always cordial and
• 5:01
  equally timed. Then we're going to have 5
• 5:03
  minute closing statements and then an audience Q&A.
• 5:05
  So that's where you guys get involved.
• 5:07
  Please tag me at standing for truth.
• 5:10
  That makes it a little more easy for me to see your question and
• 5:13
  I can save them. So that being said, let's get
• 5:15
  right into it. Mark, we're gonna hand you the
• 5:18
  floor. You have up to 12 minutes.
• 5:21
  Whatever you don't use, we'll put into the discussion portion.
• 5:24
  Thank you so much. I really appreciate it.
• 5:26
  Now I want to thank Ken for being here and thanking for
• 5:29
  truth, for moderating, of course, the audience for being
• 5:31
  here, listening in and hearing. What I have to say and hearing
• 5:36
  the the sort of arguments back and forth, now today we're
• 5:39
  talking about the art, which is one of the sort of more baffling
• 5:43
  stories for me. It's it's one of the more kooky
• 5:45
  stories in the Bible. My position is that I think that
• 5:50
  it is a legend, a myth and and fulfills all the criteria of a
• 5:55
  myth. So a lot of it should be sort of
• 5:59
  realized. And a lot of Christians do
• 6:01
  realize a lot of it is hyperbole and sort of metaphor.
• 6:04
  It's it's a symbolic story of a culture not really a actual
• 6:08
  historic account of events. And I have a number of questions
• 6:12
  of of of how it could work if it was to be a historic account of
• 6:17
  events. And I'll go through some of
• 6:19
  those and hopefully can can clear up what, how, how this
• 6:23
  would work, as there seems to be, you know, a lot of holes in
• 6:27
  the boat, if you'll forgive the rather terrible pun.
• 6:31
  So firstly, the construction of the ark and how it would
• 6:34
  actually fare in a cataclysmic ocean. the IT was made by a very
• 6:42
  prestigious shipwrights in in Maine.
• 6:45
  Sorry, it was made by by Noah and the the.
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  I do apologize. I skipped ahead there and it was
• 6:52
  137 meters long, 23 meters wide and 14 meters high of course in.
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  You know a different, different system back then.
• 7:04
  Now when a ship becomes that big and we can compare it to sort of
• 7:10
  modern ish ships that that were of a similar size, a theory, a
• 7:16
  principle called beam theory kicks in.
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  And that means that when you increase the size of the the
• 7:21
  planks, the structural integrity and the strength of the beam
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  does not increase to to match what it the weight it needs to
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  hold. And it leads to a fragile hull
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  this there was problems with other ships of this size and
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  what what the planks would do. But on a ship that big was they
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  couldn't maintain their integrity and they would twist
• 7:43
  and warp in in the water. And the ship that I was talking
• 7:47
  about earlier, the Wyoming, I do apologize.
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  I did skip ahead. The Wyoming was built by the
• 7:52
  finest ship yards in in Maine. From a firm person, small.
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  It was 140 meters in length, so a very similar size to the arc,
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  and it could not go into open water.
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  It was basically confined to the shallows.
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  Because of this twisting of the planks that would occur.
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  It eventually found it and sank, but it it was always known to
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  have problems with water coming in and and it had to use bilge
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  pumps, which obviously weren't available to Noah.
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  And my question would be, how could it possibly deal with that
• 8:28
  water that would come in from a ship that size?
• 8:32
  There are other ships. When I say ships, they're more
• 8:36
  barges that are that size wooden barges.
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  And they have exactly the same problem that their planks twist
• 8:42
  and walk, let water in, and they need bilge pumps and steel
• 8:46
  reinforcement to stay afloat. And you know, technically you
• 8:51
  could have people bailing, you know, the old bucket heave over
• 8:55
  the side method. But there are some massive
• 8:59
  problems with this and and I will get to that later.
• 9:03
  Physics itself seems to have problems with the global flood
• 9:07
  narrative and that's really what I'm putting up as in dispute the
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  sort of universal flood when when you increase the size of
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  water. And and it rises all around the
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  world and I think it was Doctor Stern that pointed this out it
• 9:26
  would compress the atmosphere. Now this compression of the
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  atmosphere, if if you do know physics, if you compress air it
• 9:33
  heats up to A to a rather large degree in fact and the rising of
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  the atmosphere would compress everything to such a degree that
• 9:41
  it would burn to a crisp anything in that atmosphere and
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  and so my second question is how did how did the the the waters
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  rise? If the water's rising would burn
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  everything, I really am uncertain about how that would
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  work as a sort of menagerie of animals.
• 10:02
  Noahs are absolutely fails. There is no possible way you
• 10:06
  could get the amount of animals on board.
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  And and let's have a look at the the animals, because it's
• 10:12
  incredibly vague how many there are.
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  And I think I think the most generous estimate I found on on
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  board is about 10,000 animals. It would be impossible to get
• 10:23
  those animals on on board the ark with the space that it had.
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  So I'm very curious as to how this this TARDIS of an ark
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  managed to fit everything on board.
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  And that brings me to the problems with the amount of
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  people. There were eight people were
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  aboard the Ark, according to the myth, and 10,000 animals.
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  Now that would be well over 1000 animals each to take care of.
• 10:55
  Now, according to a couple of sources that I read, an average
• 11:01
  zookeeper can can handle about 25 animals.
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  You know, take care of them, clean them.
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  Clean out all the fecal matter. Do all of the care required for,
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  for, for animals. Now let's just say they were
• 11:14
  excellent workers, you know, and double it to 50.
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  And let's just say that they work 16 hours a day with no rest
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  and and double it again to 100 and let's just, I don't know,
• 11:25
  double it again because why not like.
• 11:28
  Let's just say there was something going on that we
• 11:31
  didn't know about and say 200 animals they still took care of
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  five times that amount. There is no human on this planet
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  that can take care solo over 1000 animals.
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  You know, if you really think about it, that is beyond the
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  capacity of any human. And we see this a lot in myths
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  like the Flood and sort of. Humans with supernatural
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  abilities to do things and and this is one of the reasons why
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  it's widely considered a myth and and another problem is what
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  did these these thousand animals you're taking care of what what
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  did they eat? You've got carnivores like like
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  lions and tigers that they couldn't feed on prey because
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  every time they did they would make something go extinct.
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  They would have to have meat because that's what the order
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  Carnivora eats exclusively. There's also kestrels and Eagles
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  and Hawks that they they couldn't hunt prey.
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  They're not seed eating birds. What did they eat?
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  They they have to have fresh meat and meat does not keep very
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  well on a leaky boat I'm afraid. So I have a number of questions
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  about that. Things like bees gathering
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  pollen and nectar. How did they possibly do that?
• 12:53
  I apologize. Just one second.
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  Yeah. Things like dragonflies, which
• 13:01
  which hunt other insects. How did they do that if they
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  they exterminate a species every time they caught something?
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  There's a number of questions about the the diet of animals.
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  Koalas, for instance, to bring it back to my neck of the woods,
• 13:17
  they they feed exclusively on eucalyptus leaves.
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  Exclusively. They can't eat anything else.
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  So the question becomes, how did the eucalyptus trees get to the
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  near Mideast? I I I don't understand how no
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  one managed to get his hands on, you know, such a vast forest of
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  eucalyptus leaves to keep the koalas alive.
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  It's all very mysterious. So there's fantastic physics and
• 13:45
  geology and circumstance and you know exceptional things that
• 13:49
  show that there was no global flood.
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  There may have been, I will consider there may have been a
• 13:54
  local flood. I know that's not sort of what
• 13:57
  we're debating but a global flood is, is pure fantasy.
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  Most Christians including Caroline Hill who is a, he's a
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  Christian geologist. She has been for 40 plus years.
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  She wrote in an article. Absolutely no geologic evidence
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  exists for the canopy theory, flood, geology, or a universal
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  flood. So nearly all geologists, even
• 14:20
  very, very devout Christian ones, don't believe in a global
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  flood. So what?
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  What I think has happened in the more likely story is legend
• 14:29
  building, sort of a small sort of localized flood that was
• 14:33
  exaggerated over time. Sort of, you know, a a a man
• 14:37
  could have saved a couple of animals and you know, which
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  turned into many animals over the retelling and we know this
• 14:43
  happens over retelling. Stories become more aggrandized
• 14:47
  and larger and details added. I mean it's it's one thing to
• 14:52
  say you caught a huge fish. It becomes so much more credible
• 14:55
  when you say the fish was exactly, you know, 4 feet long
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  kind of thing. We know that people do this.
• 15:03
  So you know a few animals over time gets retold and retold and
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  becomes many animals and then becomes all the animals in the
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  land and by the time it gets written down it's all the
• 15:14
  animals in the world. There's nothing strange about
• 15:17
  that. Nothing.
• 15:18
  Nothing that we see wrong about that in growing with the in
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  scope, with the retelling either that or a boat that would lack
• 15:27
  that would leak and and and founder.
• 15:30
  Would have would have been in an ocean that could not have risen,
• 15:34
  carrying animals that could not have have survived, serviced by
• 15:39
  a crew that could not handle the workload.
• 15:43
  And don't forget, the crew would also have to clean, cook,
• 15:48
  maintain the boat, do every chore aboard such a massive
• 15:52
  vehicle. As well as over 1000 animals.
• 15:56
  It it just to me it is, it seems, one of the more kooky
• 16:00
  stories in the Bible just because of the the sheer amount
• 16:05
  of holes and the sort of, to me, the ridiculousness of those
• 16:09
  holes. Nothing about it is is very
• 16:12
  plausible at all, and so I know which one out of these these
• 16:18
  ideas that I would believe it is simply a myth.
• 16:23
  Thank you. OK, I appreciate it there, Mark,
• 16:27
  with one minute to spare, we can definitely throw that into
• 16:31
  discussion portion. So you, you made it.
• 16:33
  You made it also to the chat. Thank you so much for your
• 16:37
  support, your super stickers, super chat.
• 16:38
  We've already got over 200 people in the chat.
• 16:41
  So please, when you do tag me with your question, just make
• 16:43
  sure you're tagging me at standing for truth.
• 16:45
  So that being said, we're going to hand it over to you, Kent.
• 16:49
  Kent, you have 12 minutes as well, whenever you're ready.
• 16:53
  Well, thank you. And Mark, I appreciate this.
• 16:55
  Now I have a simple question. If I can and plug all these
• 16:57
  holes you have about the art, would you then get converted or
• 17:03
  would you simply start looking for more holes?
• 17:07
  Most people that debate, they don't really want an answer.
• 17:10
  They want to reject the Bible for some whatever reason, Okay.
• 17:13
  So if you're really, honestly seeking for truth, then I think
• 17:16
  all of your questions can easily be answered scientifically,
• 17:19
  Biblically. No question either way.
• 17:22
  For both, and just for warning upfront, I suspect it like many
• 17:28
  atheists have debated. You don't really want an answer
• 17:30
  and it wouldn't matter what I told you.
• 17:31
  But let me answer a few of these The Bible says the earth was
• 17:34
  corrupt and filled with violence and God looked down and
• 17:36
  everything was corrupt and God said to Noah, I want you to
• 17:39
  build a boat because the earth is filled with violence and I
• 17:42
  want you to make it with Gopher Wood.
• 17:43
  So the story of Noah's Ark. Has been found in cultures all
• 17:47
  over the world, if you look at the time frame according to the
• 17:50
  Bible. I've got a chart here made
• 17:52
  straight from the dates in the Bible.
• 17:53
  The first half of the chart, from the creation up until the
• 17:57
  flood, is the dates that are found before in Genesis chapter
• 18:00
  5. They're all given right there,
• 18:02
  Genesis 5, and tell us how old they are when their kids were
• 18:05
  born and how long they live after that.
• 18:08
  Before the flood came, according to the Bible, people were living
• 18:10
  to be 900 years old. This is the time of dinosaurs.
• 18:14
  Because reptiles never stop growing.
• 18:16
  Many giant fossils are found of all kinds of animals.
• 18:19
  Biggest Beaver today is about 2 1/2 feet.
• 18:22
  They find fossil Beavers 8 feet long.
• 18:25
  Something was different. Now the textbooks in school are
• 18:27
  going to say, oh, this is during the, you know, prehistoric
• 18:29
  Archaean era, something like that.
• 18:31
  There's no such thing as a geologic column.
• 18:33
  There's no such thing as a Jurassic period or Triassic or
• 18:35
  Mississippi and Devonia and solarium.
• 18:37
  It's all baloney. All the layers are the same age.
• 18:40
  How can they not be? They say the top layer's
• 18:43
  younger. I say really, where's it coming
• 18:44
  from Outer space. All the layers are the same.
• 18:47
  They give respect and dirt anyway.
• 18:49
  So before the flood came, the Bible says they live to be 900,
• 18:52
  including Noah was 950. After the flood.
• 18:56
  The dates are found in Genesis Chapter 11.
• 18:58
  So after the flood we see Noah had a son named Shem and Shem
• 19:02
  lived to be 600 years old. The dark line going up and down
• 19:07
  is is the flood. After the flood we have shems
• 19:09
  having a son named our facts head.
• 19:12
  And I'm sure our facts said born after the flood would soon get
• 19:15
  big enough and he'd look around and say, hey, Dad, are we the
• 19:17
  only people in the world? And Dad would say, yes, son, let
• 19:21
  me tell you about the flood. And that story would be told
• 19:24
  Sham himself would live through the flood, live long enough to
• 19:27
  tell the story to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
• 19:30
  So I think the actual eyewitness account of Noah, who lived 400
• 19:34
  and some years or 350 years after the flood.
• 19:38
  They would tell this story. There have been 270 flood
• 19:41
  stories according to this book by Duane Gish.
• 19:44
  Flood Legends. After the death of Kuni Hanna in
• 19:46
  Hawaii, the legend goes, the first man.
• 19:50
  The world became a wicked terrible police.
• 19:51
  There was a place. There was one good man left.
• 19:53
  His name was new. According to the Hawaiian
• 19:56
  legend, he made a great canoe with a house on it filled with
• 19:59
  animals. And I cover all this on my video
• 20:00
  number three of my seminar series.
• 20:03
  You get the whole thing for 50 bucks and watch video #3.
• 20:05
  I talk about dinosaurs. They've always lived with man.
• 20:08
  And a whole bunch about the flood in.
• 20:10
  Actually, Doctor Hovind, I'm just going to pause your timer
• 20:13
  real quick because I I noticed and some people notice in the
• 20:16
  chat that the mic you're using is the computer mic versus your
• 20:20
  external mic. Now I don't want to risk
• 20:22
  anything and and screw it. Got a red light on my mic.
• 20:26
  Again, now we can still hear you.
• 20:29
  It's just coming from the IT switched over this thing, which
• 20:33
  indicates the world's going to come to an end in 20 minutes.
• 20:39
  What do we do? Keep going.
• 20:40
  You got another battery? OK, what's coming?
• 20:44
  Another battery should take this.
• 20:46
  OK, green light. All right, there we go.
• 20:48
  What an improvement. There's a proof revolution right
• 20:51
  there. So there you go.
• 20:55
  Oh, and actually now we're not getting any sound from Ken.
• 20:58
  So it was coming perfectly and now the sounds off.
• 21:07
  It looks like it's red again on the on the external mic.
• 21:25
  It was coming in for a couple seconds there, whoever is in
• 21:28
  charge of the external mic, but it then we lost.
• 21:32
  There we go. How's that testing 1-2, Three?
• 21:34
  There we go. Green light, red light, green
• 21:36
  light. OK, keep an eye on that there,
• 21:39
  OKI guess the point would be there are hundreds of flood
• 21:41
  legends from countries around the world.
• 21:44
  Are they all just making up a story or could it be that these
• 21:47
  are, you know, exaggerated versions as as he said of of the
• 21:51
  real thing. The Chinese have a legend that
• 21:54
  says Fuhai, his wife, three sons and three daughters are scraped,
• 21:57
  escaped the flood and they survived in a big boat.
• 22:00
  The Tollic Indians in Mexico have a legend about a flood.
• 22:03
  They say the first world lasted 17116 years.
• 22:07
  Well, that's interesting. The Bible dates add up to 1656,
• 22:10
  so pretty close for a legend like that.
• 22:12
  They say the world was destroyed by a flood that covered the
• 22:15
  highest mountains and one family survived.
• 22:18
  So the Bible dates come to 1656. So I think a legend that's only,
• 22:21
  you know, 80 years off after being retold and retold is
• 22:24
  pretty good. Let's see.
• 22:26
  There's a website calledcreationism.org that has a
• 22:29
  list of all of the flood legends and all the information about
• 22:33
  them if you want to go read about that.
• 22:35
  Now we have here at the US eventually a rock Tumblr.
• 22:38
  You stick rocks in there and just tumble them around for a
• 22:40
  few days. Have your parents nuts and they
• 22:42
  come out rounded Rock Tumblr worldwide gravel is rounded.
• 22:47
  We live in a gravel pit here in Lenox, Alabama.
• 22:49
  We have trillions of rounded rocks.
• 22:51
  Rocks that are rounded off had to be tumbled around the seven
• 22:56
  layers of gravel here in Lenox. AL that they were digging for.
• 22:59
  These gravel layers go all the way to North Carolina.
• 23:03
  Same layers. I think there was a flood to
• 23:05
  make rounded rocks in layers like this, 7 consecutive layers.
• 23:09
  It's gravel, sand, clay, which is the come take the tour and I
• 23:12
  would show you around how that that happens.
• 23:14
  We got a science demonstration on that.
• 23:16
  At the far end of the country of Turkey.
• 23:18
  There's a mountain over there called Noah on Gumshi.
• 23:21
  The Turkish government has signs.
• 23:22
  You go drive right up to it. They say this is where Noah's
• 23:25
  Ark landed. The Bible says it landed in the
• 23:27
  mountains of Ararat. Mountains, Plural 4 Theories
• 23:31
  about Noah's Ark. What happened to it?
• 23:32
  If the story is true? Some people say they took it
• 23:34
  apart because after the flood there wouldn't be very many big
• 23:37
  trees around to build stuff out of, so they reuse the lumber.
• 23:41
  Reasonable theory. Second theory says it rotted, is
• 23:43
  made out of wood. It's gone.
• 23:45
  Third theory says it's still on the mountain.
• 23:46
  And 4th theory says it's down in the valley.
• 23:49
  I stick with #4. I think it's down in the valley.
• 23:51
  There's some. Here's actual Mount Arararat.
• 23:53
  I think it's unlikely for anything to land on a mountain.
• 23:56
  If water is receding, it's going to be drift off to the side.
• 24:00
  Float a sponge in your bathtub and bring your knee up under it
• 24:02
  and try to get it to land on your knee.
• 24:03
  It's going to be very difficult. It's going to drift off to one
• 24:06
  side or the other, green light. So some people think it's on the
• 24:11
  mountain. I disagree.
• 24:12
  I think it's. I don't think that's it.
• 24:13
  I think it's right there. Turkish government says that's
• 24:16
  it. The Life magazine published an
• 24:17
  article 60 years ago said that's Noah's Ark right there.
• 24:21
  That's the remnants of it. There was an earthquake in 78
• 24:25
  that made it. Either it came up or the ground
• 24:27
  fell down, but that's apparently what's Noah's left of Noah's
• 24:30
  Ark. It's in the right spot.
• 24:32
  It's in the mountains of Ararat, where the Bible says it landed.
• 24:35
  Richard Reeves and David Reeves, his son.
• 24:37
  Good friends of mine, they've been done a lot of study on
• 24:40
  that. The Ark apparently has collapsed
• 24:41
  on itself and folded out to the side.
• 24:44
  Radar scans show that there are giant Timbers down there.
• 24:47
  This indeed, And and and the bolt?
• 24:49
  The Ark was apparently bolted together with giant rivets.
• 24:52
  Noah was 600 when he were on the boat.
• 24:54
  He probably pretty smart fella by then.
• 24:56
  He'd figure out how to do things.
• 24:57
  Plus God showed him how to build the boat.
• 24:59
  But they found some of the rivets, Iron rivets that
• 25:01
  apparently the ark was bolted together, riveted together.
• 25:05
  Okay. There was apparently made of of
• 25:07
  three layers of wood that are stuck together by tar.
• 25:10
  The Bible says they used pitch. I saw a sample of it they've got
• 25:13
  at the museum in Tennessee. It was about four and a half
• 25:16
  inch thick, like like plywood, only this thick.
• 25:18
  That would be incredibly strong cross grain like that.
• 25:22
  You can go see why at Archaeological Museum and see
• 25:24
  all the pictures. Apparently the Ark landed up
• 25:26
  near the mountain and over the years, over the centuries, the
• 25:30
  rainstorms and landslides and things have pushed it down.
• 25:33
  It tore the bottom of the Ark off, which is called the keel.
• 25:36
  Most ships have a heavy keel on the bottom to keep it upright.
• 25:40
  You keep, you know, put a bunch of rocks in the in something
• 25:42
  hanging off the bottom to keep the ship upright and stormy
• 25:44
  weather apparently that got ripped off because it's still up
• 25:47
  there near the mountain and the boat has slid down now down
• 25:50
  here. So you can watch my video for
• 25:52
  three for more on that. I did want to address some of
• 25:54
  your questions, Dave, on the assumption that you really want
• 25:57
  an answer. Let's see.
• 25:59
  I'm sorry, Mark. God.
• 26:02
  God gave the instructions on how to do it.
• 26:04
  And Noah was 600 when the flood started.
• 26:07
  So he probably spent 100 years building that boat.
• 26:10
  We don't know, but he certainly could have hired local help if
• 26:13
  you wanted. And yes, the Bible teaches.
• 26:16
  Clearly it was a global flood. I'm.
• 26:18
  I'm surprised, Mark, that you said one of the things you said,
• 26:21
  I said, you got to be kidding. You said the rising ocean would
• 26:24
  compress the air. How on earth did you get come up
• 26:29
  with that conclusion? If the ocean rises, it lifts the
• 26:32
  air with it. Rising oceans has zero effect on
• 26:36
  air pressure. None.
• 26:39
  The ocean. The air's going to go up with
• 26:40
  it. It's not going to heat up the
• 26:42
  world from the heating, heating of the air.
• 26:44
  Study some physics on that one, Mark.
• 26:46
  Sorry. And you said there's no way to
• 26:48
  get all the animals on the ark 10,000.
• 26:50
  Let's take that number. You use 10,000.
• 26:52
  That's reasonable. First of all, Noah was 600.
• 26:55
  He was probably smart enough to know to bring babies he only had
• 26:59
  to bring two of each kind. There's a website
• 27:01
  calledbermanology.com from the Hebrew word Berman, which is
• 27:04
  deals with what is this a kind? God said bring them after their
• 27:07
  kind on the ark. And to put this in perspective
• 27:10
  now for all of you guys watching, I want you to
• 27:13
  understand that people like like Mark want to reject the flood
• 27:17
  story which is their privilege, but instead they want you to
• 27:20
  believe everything fit in a dot smaller than a period.
• 27:23
  You don't believe all these animals could fit on a boat, but
• 27:26
  you think all the animals in the world fit in a dot that
• 27:29
  exploded. Stop and think.
• 27:32
  I boggles the mind that they can believe this evolution.
• 27:36
  Religion. They've traded in a Bible story
• 27:39
  for something so dumb to believe in evolution.
• 27:42
  Anyway, the government of Turkey built a visitor center over
• 27:44
  there. You can go see Noah's Ark if
• 27:45
  you'd like. Right there.
• 27:47
  Okay. 300 cubits long cubit, elbow to fingertip.
• 27:50
  That would make the boat with my cubit at least 20.62 inches is
• 27:54
  the standard Hebrew cubit or Egyptian cubit.
• 27:57
  That'd make the boat about 515 feet long, and that is indeed
• 28:01
  the size of that, a little bigger than the Titanic.
• 28:04
  And as far as keeping the boat in stormy weather, we don't know
• 28:07
  that where the flood was when Noah was in the ark, it was
• 28:10
  stormy at all. People always assume, oh, the
• 28:13
  rough seas and are going to tear the ark apart.
• 28:16
  Maybe it was perfectly calm the whole time, just float land and
• 28:19
  get out. We don't know that there was a
• 28:20
  storm, but in case there was or any currents moving things
• 28:24
  around, apparently there were moon.
• 28:26
  There were rocks hanging on the side of the boat.
• 28:29
  Drogue stones they're called, they found I think 12 of these
• 28:32
  giant rocks, 9000 pounds apiece. They have a hole in the top.
• 28:36
  They call them anchor stones. There's carvings on them.
• 28:39
  Apparently when Noah got off or somebody carved on there 8
• 28:42
  crosses for eight people on Noah's ark.
• 28:44
  These holes have curves in them indicating they were to hold a
• 28:47
  rope without a sharp edge to Cut the Rope.
• 28:51
  At the Sea of Galilee they find boats had anchor stones or drove
• 28:53
  stones. If it gets windy or stormy, drop
• 28:56
  the rocks overboard and it would keep the boat stabilized like a
• 29:00
  sea anchor, something to anchor to the water, if you use that
• 29:02
  analogy. So that arc landed, the ropes
• 29:05
  were taken off the anchor stones, and then the arc has
• 29:07
  slid down over the centuries and now it's several miles away from
• 29:11
  these things. So apparently these were the
• 29:12
  rope holes for the anchor stones, called a drogue stone.
• 29:16
  If it does really get windy, they will create drag and turn
• 29:19
  the boat so you're always perpendicular to the waves.
• 29:22
  It would be a smart idea to have drogue stones hanging off the
• 29:25
  boat to slow you down if you're not going anywhere, anywhere.
• 29:30
  One guy said Noah's ark having rocks on the side would slow him
• 29:32
  down. I said.
• 29:35
  Where was he going? He's not trying to go anywhere,
• 29:39
  he's just trying to float. But they said there was a 606
• 29:43
  master that couldn't sail because the sales kept twisting.
• 29:45
  The ships you mentioned the planks twisting.
• 29:47
  Noah's ark didn't have any sales.
• 29:49
  It's just as simply a design to float the book of Josephus.
• 29:53
  I got two or three copies back there.
• 29:55
  They had written about the time of Christ.
• 29:57
  They said, Oh yeah, we know where Noah's Ark is.
• 29:59
  It's called the landing place in Armenia.
• 30:02
  And about the art going over waves.
• 30:04
  Again, we don't know that there was any stormy weather where
• 30:06
  Noah was, but if there was the art going over a boat like or
• 30:11
  the going over a big wave about that law, we tend to twist and
• 30:14
  flex unless it had a moon pole. It's common sense.
• 30:18
  A moon pool is a hole in the floor into which the water can
• 30:22
  come up and down. You have walls built up inside
• 30:24
  and as you go over the waves this relieves the stress on a
• 30:27
  long ship and it acts like a giant piston to pump air in and
• 30:30
  out of the boat and a good place to get your fresh water.
• 30:33
  I believe the whole world was fresh water during Noah's flood
• 30:36
  and all the water has gradually become saltier.
• 30:39
  We know the oceans are gaining salt every day and they're today
• 30:42
  they're 3.6% average salt saloon in the ocean.
• 30:46
  And so that could have happened in 4400 years easily go from
• 30:49
  freshwater. And you mentioned about the
• 30:51
  carnivorous animals on the ark. Let's see.
• 30:53
  I think I've got that evidence for Noah's flood.
• 30:56
  The Bible clearly teaches it. First of all, Jesus believed it.
• 30:59
  There are 350 flood legends and 70% of the earth is still
• 31:03
  covered by water. One atheist I debated said if
• 31:06
  there was a flood, where'd all the water go?
• 31:09
  It's still here. The oceans are huge.
• 31:12
  If you smoothed out the world today, there's enough water out
• 31:14
  there to cover the earth a mile and a half deep, everywhere,
• 31:17
  8000 feet, 8810 technically is the supposed answer they got.
• 31:22
  So I think there's overwhelming evidence there was a flood and
• 31:26
  the Noah's Ark story is perfectly legitimate.
• 31:29
  And I think Noah had dinosaurs on there, and they probably
• 31:32
  babies. I think Noah took babies of
• 31:33
  everything. Let's see you said one
• 31:35
  zookeeper. Take care.
• 31:36
  Take care of 25 animals. Well, you're setting up a straw
• 31:40
  man and then knocking it down thinking you've won some kind of
• 31:42
  victory. Suppose the Bible says in
• 31:44
  Genesis chapter one, all of the animals were vegetarian.
• 31:48
  Everything. And going for changing from a
• 31:50
  vegetarian lion to a meat eating lion is a pretty minor change
• 31:55
  compared to changing from a rock to a lion, which is what you
• 31:58
  guys and evolutionists believe. So I think during the flood
• 32:02
  everything was vegetarian. I think everything no would just
• 32:06
  and none of the animals needed cages to put again a little room
• 32:10
  to sleep in. But leave the door open or don't
• 32:11
  even have a door and it put out piles of food.
• 32:14
  They go buy their own food, go go get their own food.
• 32:17
  So you're you're imagining a problem that does not exist this
• 32:21
  way. Noah's family didn't probably
• 32:23
  have to do much of anything if it needed had a moon pool.
• 32:26
  If I was to know, I would build it with such that every time you
• 32:29
  hit a wave, the water comes up and automatically fills all your
• 32:32
  watering troughs for you. 15 seconds?
• 32:35
  I think that'd be common sense to do something like that.
• 32:37
  So I think feeding and watering animals took no time at all from
• 32:40
  Noah's family. I think you're claiming there
• 32:43
  wasn't a flood based on some fallacious arguments.
• 32:46
  Okay. Go ahead.
• 32:47
  All right. I appreciate that opening
• 32:49
  statement. That concludes the opening
• 32:50
  statements from both Mark and Doctor Hoeven, roughly roughly
• 32:54
  12 minutes. So thank you to the chat.
• 32:56
  We're close to 300 people in the chat.
• 32:57
  So I know there's a lot of questions flying in.
• 32:59
  Just make sure you are tagging me and standing for truth.
• 33:02
  So Mark, I'm going to hand it over to you.
• 33:04
  You have between 6:00 and 8:00 minutes for your rebuttal.
• 33:07
  Of course, whatever you don't use, we can just toss into the
• 33:10
  discussion portion. You are on mute.
• 33:11
  Just make sure that you unmute yourself and we're good to go.
• 33:14
  Sure, no problem. Thank you so much and thank you
• 33:17
  Ken for your opening. I really did enjoy that.
• 33:20
  So a few things I want to address.
• 33:22
  And and 1st off is the cultures all around the world having
• 33:24
  various flood legends. Now it's funny that you brought
• 33:27
  up the Yellow River because in that story the entire world
• 33:30
  didn't flood. It was just the Yellow River and
• 33:32
  it wasn't just the food through to that that survived.
• 33:36
  It was actually a whole bunch of stuff.
• 33:37
  The idea of that myth is that he controlled the flood, not that
• 33:41
  it actually went out of control. So you've got the wrong end.
• 33:44
  For that myth there maybe getting your myths confused the
• 33:48
  the the fossil record doesn't support Kent's thing and and the
• 33:52
  the whole thing about layers that he mentioned like oh you
• 33:55
  have all these layers is in some places we do find those layers
• 33:58
  flipped over so it has the the the Hard Rock then up to the the
• 34:03
  sedimentary and then reversed on top of it.
• 34:06
  Because of the way plaque tectonics work, sometimes it
• 34:09
  gets pushed up at ducks and then flips over and and that doesn't
• 34:14
  explain. And why that happens, if it is
• 34:16
  indeed a flood that did that. And that's why most geologists
• 34:18
  don't think that flood geology actually explains geology at
• 34:21
  all. Erosion doesn't need a flood.
• 34:23
  There's no case where we've ever, you know, needed a flood
• 34:27
  to have erosion. It's just it is a ludicrous
• 34:30
  claim. Now this, this whole idea of
• 34:33
  that, that particular boat that was found, this is the Turkish
• 34:36
  government and I'm very familiar with this one.
• 34:38
  There was a paper that did a chemical analysis and I'll just
• 34:41
  find the doctor's name. David Franklin for Sold.
• 34:44
  He did a chemical analysis on it and found that there was no
• 34:48
  petrified wood in this particular site for the for the
• 34:52
  boat. It's actually just looks boat
• 34:55
  shaped and is purely natural rock.
• 34:57
  And I I do have the paper where he did a chemical analysis on
• 35:00
  it. The iron brackets that were
• 35:03
  found that were mentioned were actually lemonite.
• 35:05
  So basically not iron, but a a raw form that you find naturally
• 35:12
  in the earth. And the droke stones were from
• 35:16
  that exact area. So they weren't transported from
• 35:19
  anywhere else. And we can tell this three
• 35:21
  chemical analysis. So in fact those droke stones
• 35:24
  were dug up or the stones were dug up from that area.
• 35:28
  So they didn't travel anywhere. That was just made there.
• 35:32
  The crosses, they determined were added later.
• 35:35
  They weren't, you know, put on there.
• 35:38
  They weren't carved on there when the stones were carved from
• 35:41
  the very rock at that site. So a chemical analysis shows
• 35:45
  that that isn't the ark because it isn't fossilized wood, It's
• 35:49
  just purely natural rock. Now, the whole thing about
• 35:55
  having babies on the ark, I I I'm sort of confounded because
• 35:59
  younger animals need more care than older animals.
• 36:02
  So that kind of reinforces my point.
• 36:04
  And it also adds the question of if there were babies, where did
• 36:07
  the milk come from? Like this is the problem with
• 36:10
  mythology. You plug 1 hole with this this
• 36:12
  sort of statement and another hole opens up somewhere else.
• 36:15
  So the holes are getting more not not less after that.
• 36:19
  So it I'm kind of baffled It it's funny that that Ken accuses
• 36:24
  me of making a straw man as he said something about a dot
• 36:28
  smaller than a period, which I think I think is The Big Bang
• 36:31
  he's referring to. I don't know why it's not really
• 36:34
  subject for this debate. Not only is that a straw man,
• 36:38
  it's also a red. For anyone unfamiliar, red
• 36:41
  herring is something that you throw out to distract the
• 36:44
  audience away from what you don't want them to see.
• 36:48
  It's a big distraction and I don't know why we're suddenly
• 36:53
  going into these fallacies of red herrings and straw men.
• 36:58
  I didn't mention sales twisting planks and I did in fact mention
• 37:02
  barges that were of a similar size and their their planks
• 37:06
  twist as well. I'm not sure if you're familiar
• 37:08
  with the barge, Kent, but a barge doesn't have sales and
• 37:11
  these barges of similar size made of wood, their planks still
• 37:14
  twist. They do need bilge pumps as I
• 37:17
  did, you know iterate before and and they don't have sales so
• 37:23
  that's a moot point. Now I'm moon pool first, I don't
• 37:27
  know how. You would solve the structural
• 37:29
  problems of a boat by putting a hole in the bottom.
• 37:34
  It's you already have a wooden boat with structural problems.
• 37:37
  Putting a hole in the bottom does not solve those structural
• 37:40
  problems. In fact, it makes it far, far
• 37:42
  worse. Most boats with moon pools are
• 37:44
  actually made of steel, not wood.
• 37:47
  There's a boat Wood of that size would not have a moon pool if
• 37:51
  it's made of wood. Steel maybe, but but not wood?
• 37:54
  That's That's ridiculous. A perfectly calm world while
• 38:00
  while you have a global flood. Hard to believe.
• 38:05
  OK, now the the one thing I did stand out is the way you can't.
• 38:10
  Said oh a lion wouldn't change much going from a a vegetarian
• 38:18
  to a meat eater and that's incredible.
• 38:20
  So a lion has a digestive tract that is.
• 38:24
  Is absolutely suited for digestion of meat and claws, for
• 38:28
  grasp and prey. Teeth that cannot cannot eat, I
• 38:31
  think it was hay, he said. They ate.
• 38:35
  You would need a total rework of that creature in order to change
• 38:39
  it to a vegetarian creature. And I mean, what we're talking
• 38:43
  about here is not just a change in species or genus or family,
• 38:48
  but a change in order from order.
• 38:52
  Something like that eats hay like.
• 38:54
  Woven day like cows or equine day, which is horses to order.
• 39:00
  Carnivora. So this is beyond the most
• 39:04
  ridiculous optimistic dreams of a of a of a a geneticist to see
• 39:12
  a a high eating plant turn into a meat eating line over the
• 39:16
  course of what, less than a century?
• 39:18
  Less than a Millennium? No, no.
• 39:20
  That is so ridiculous. I I I don't even know where to
• 39:23
  start. Yeah.
• 39:26
  And that that's sort of what I picked up from Kent's Kent's
• 39:32
  opener. And and you know, I'd, I'd like
• 39:35
  to iterate what what is go forward.
• 39:37
  What what what is that? Because we don't seem to know.
• 39:40
  In fact there's a whole load of stuff about the Bible we don't
• 39:43
  seem to know. But yeah, that's the problems I
• 39:46
  had with the the evidence that Kent presented.
• 39:52
  Okay. Well, I appreciate that rebuttal
• 39:55
  Mark with a minute to spare. As always, we throw that into
• 39:57
  the discussion portion. So that being said, we're going
• 40:01
  to hand it over to Kent. You have up to 8 minutes as
• 40:05
  well. I'll.
• 40:06
  Start. All right.
• 40:08
  Thank you so much, Sir. This is why I so much prefer one
• 40:12
  topic at a time. What's happening here is Mark's
• 40:15
  throwing out eight or ten different topics and I won't
• 40:17
  have time to answer each one adequately during my 8 minute
• 40:20
  rebuttal. And therefore he will think, oh
• 40:22
  wow, I won on point number four and three or six and seven.
• 40:26
  So one topic at a time, please. Okay.
• 40:28
  As far as bringing babies on the ark, where would they get the
• 40:31
  milk? Okay Mark, Let me explain.
• 40:34
  After babies get done with the milk stage, they enter a period
• 40:38
  we call adolescence for humans and they're able to take care of
• 40:41
  themselves and they don't need milk anymore, but they're still
• 40:44
  not full size. So let us just say Noah took
• 40:47
  adolescence on the ark, if that would help you, to the point
• 40:50
  where they did not need milk anymore.
• 40:52
  There's get to a certain stage, OK, Big Bang straw man is not a
• 40:55
  strong man at all. You you made the argument that
• 40:58
  all the animals could not fit on a boat that size.
• 41:02
  I'm pointing out that what you've given people in exchange
• 41:06
  for not believing that the atheist and evolution is that
• 41:09
  I'm aware of all of them 252 that I've debated so far.
• 41:14
  Instead, they believe everything.
• 41:15
  All the planets, the whole Pacific Ocean, everything fit in
• 41:19
  a dot. Smaller than a page.
• 41:22
  Smaller than a period on a page. This is not a straw man For you
• 41:25
  to claim Noah could not put all the animals on a boat and then
• 41:29
  turn around and believe that they all fit in a dot is real
• 41:33
  ridiculous. Incredibly ridiculous.
• 41:35
  Okay. So let's see.
• 41:39
  Fit in a dot. Okay the hole in the bottom of
• 41:41
  the boat with the moon pool I I think is perfectly legitimate.
• 41:46
  You can build a wooden boat with a hole, a structure with I've
• 41:49
  built stuff all my life. It would not be difficult.
• 41:51
  Take a wooden boat, have a hole in the bottom and build walls up
• 41:55
  on the inside. They build tower things out of
• 41:57
  wood in round shapes all the time.
• 41:59
  It could be square. I don't know that it was round
• 42:02
  but it could. Noah could have built a moon
• 42:04
  pool and reinforced it and easily survive a one year flood.
• 42:10
  Plus you are still stuck with the assumption it's rough.
• 42:13
  You said well during a global flood it's going to be, you know
• 42:16
  the Ocean's going to be tumultuous.
• 42:18
  I would be willing to bet you 20 bucks.
• 42:20
  There are storms going on right now some place on the planet.
• 42:24
  I bet there are hurricanes and typhoons going on some place
• 42:28
  right now that is not affecting the beach in Alabama at all.
• 42:33
  It's perfectly calm here while it's stormy over here.
• 42:36
  I bet you get storms in Australia that we here in
• 42:38
  America don't know about and don't care about.
• 42:41
  So it is. It is ludicrous to say the the
• 42:44
  whole world was tumultuous the whole time.
• 42:47
  It's a really, really big planet and so they could have easily
• 42:51
  been calm seas where Noah was. All it has to do is the water
• 42:55
  come up, drowned everybody and go back down.
• 42:57
  Doesn't have to be too at all anywhere for that matter, but
• 43:01
  the moon. Right now, the moon a quarter
• 43:04
  million miles away, is pulling a bump up on the Earth called the
• 43:07
  high tide. It holds that tide like a magnet
• 43:10
  while we spin around at my latitude, Lenox, Alabama, 31
• 43:14
  degrees. We're going about almost 900
• 43:16
  miles an hour toward the east at this latitude.
• 43:19
  So if the moon is holding a bump of water called the high tide
• 43:23
  while we spin around, the water has to be constantly being
• 43:26
  dragged sideways to stay under that bump at the same speed the
• 43:29
  Earth is turning. So if there were nothing to
• 43:32
  interrupt the tide, the tide would become harmonic and it
• 43:36
  would be a 200 foot tidal change every six hours 12 1/2 minutes.
• 43:40
  So the water going in sideways in to fill that bump would be
• 43:43
  going the same speed the earth is turning.
• 43:45
  If the water were going sideways at 900 miles an hour, it would
• 43:49
  make a whole bunch of layers in a hurry.
• 43:51
  This is the demonstration we do here at Dinosaur Adventure Land
• 43:54
  to show rapid sedimentation and to say the layers are different
• 43:58
  ages is so ludicrous. Where are these layers coming
• 44:02
  from? Outer space.
• 44:04
  All the layers form quickly. I have demonstration I'm part of
• 44:06
  our part of our tour we give here where we shake up a jar
• 44:10
  with sand, gravel and clay and water in it and it always sorts
• 44:13
  it out and settles it into sand, gravel or gravel, sand, clay.
• 44:18
  Things are it's hydrologic sorting.
• 44:20
  It's common sense. One O 1 physics, one O 1.
• 44:22
  Things are sorted by density and by surface tension and by
• 44:26
  numerous other factor. So I think the the flood of Noah
• 44:30
  would explain all the layers. It certainly would explain the
• 44:32
  Poly strata fossils we find thousands of trees have been
• 44:35
  found petrified standing up connecting all these layers.
• 44:40
  The layers are all the same age, within a few weeks of each
• 44:43
  other, just sort settling out in the flood.
• 44:45
  And then you mentioned about the meat eating lion.
• 44:48
  If I need you to do some research on what happened in
• 44:50
  London during World War Two, they told the London Zoo, sorry,
• 44:54
  no more meat. We got to give all the meat to
• 44:56
  the soldiers, so they fed the lions cabbage.
• 45:00
  They didn't like it at first, but they got used to it and they
• 45:03
  live just fine throughout the whole war on cabbage and other
• 45:06
  vegetable material for the lions.
• 45:09
  Yes, carnivorous animals can learn to live on vegetation.
• 45:15
  We know the lions did. What was the name of that one at
• 45:17
  the London Zoo? I cover this on my video.
• 45:19
  Number six, I think. Anyway, so I have to strongly
• 45:22
  disagree. This is not a problem, but again
• 45:24
  going from a everything was vegetarian.
• 45:26
  After the flood we see in Genesis Chapter 9, God told Noah
• 45:30
  now the animals are going to be afraid of you.
• 45:32
  Before that they weren't afraid. Everything was friendly.
• 45:35
  No one didn't eat cages on the Arkland.
• 45:36
  All the animals run around, play together.
• 45:39
  And then after the flood when they let them all out, they
• 45:42
  spread out around the world and some became some became
• 45:45
  carnivorous. Some animals today can live on
• 45:47
  either one, vegetation or meat. Bears can do that.
• 45:51
  They're omnivores. Humans are that omnivores can
• 45:53
  eat either one. There are some today that have
• 45:56
  adapted to a strictly meat environment, but this is 4400
• 46:00
  years after the flood was over and I think that even the
• 46:03
  carnivores, I bet you could probably get most of them if not
• 46:06
  all of them to learn to live on vegetation again.
• 46:10
  I bet that could be. But again, going from a meat
• 46:12
  eating lion to a vegetarian lion would still be a minor change
• 46:16
  compared to going from a rock to a lion, which is what the
• 46:19
  evolutionary theory teaches. So I think there's only two
• 46:22
  options. The Bible's true or it's not
• 46:25
  true. I've chosen to believe that the
• 46:27
  book is true, and so far all the evidence I've seen from science
• 46:30
  says man, that's true. The Earth cannot be billions of
• 46:33
  years old for all kinds of scientific reasons.
• 46:35
  The Earth is spinning, but it's turned slowing down in its spin.
• 46:37
  The moon's getting further away. The oceans are getting saltier.
• 46:40
  The human population is rising. I cover on my video #1 about 30
• 46:44
  or 40 different ways to show it can't be billions years old.
• 46:47
  And the Bible says at the end of time the scoffers would be
• 46:50
  willingly ignorant of the creation and the flood.
• 46:54
  The last days there shall be scoffers walking after their own
• 46:56
  lust. Let's see for this.
• 46:58
  They willingly are ignorant of that.
• 47:00
  By the word of God, the heavens were of old, there were three
• 47:03
  heavens, and the earth was standing out of the water.
• 47:05
  The scoffers are ignorant of the creation.
• 47:08
  They're ignorant of the flood. Let's see right here.
• 47:12
  Let's see what the original creation was like.
• 47:15
  It was very different. I cover this and they're
• 47:17
  ignorant of that flood. That and that, I think, is what
• 47:20
  the problem is here, Mark. You don't, you don't want to
• 47:23
  admit there was a global flood. Of course, that would mean God
• 47:25
  has the authority to judge his creation.
• 47:27
  And he did. And he will again.
• 47:28
  One day you're going to be there.
• 47:30
  I'm going to say God. I tried to tell him.
• 47:31
  I don't know what else I can do, but OK, go ahead.
• 47:36
  All right. I appreciate that.
• 47:37
  Thanks for your rebuttal, Kent. That concludes the opening
• 47:41
  statements and rebuttals. Epic debate so far, gentlemen.
• 47:44
  Great chat, great questions coming in as well.
• 47:47
  Now we're moving into the open discussion portion of the
• 47:49
  debate. As always on this channel, we
• 47:52
  like to keep the discussion professional.
• 47:54
  Equally timed with the debaters discussing one topic at a time,
• 47:58
  we could always take turns asking each other questions.
• 48:00
  Lots of lots of points brought up in the openings and rebuttal.
• 48:05
  So since Kent just ended with his rebuttal mark, why don't we
• 48:08
  hand it over to you? You can start us off in this
• 48:11
  discussion, maybe at a question you want to ask for a couple
• 48:13
  points you wanted to address. So, gentlemen, the floor is
• 48:16
  yours. Fantastic.
• 48:17
  Thank you so much. Thank for truth.
• 48:19
  Appreciate it. I'm sorry that you know you're
• 48:23
  having trouble keeping up. You know, you said that 8 to 10
• 48:25
  topics, I have the same problem. So I think you know things are
• 48:29
  fair and you know this is just the way a debate works.
• 48:31
  So I do apologize if I am running quickly.
• 48:34
  We can certainly go back and address any, any topic that you
• 48:37
  do want to address. That's not a problem.
• 48:40
  I note that you didn't sort of address my problem of the red
• 48:42
  herring of what I believe, like what I believe doesn't make the
• 48:47
  arc story any truer or falser. So I think that's just sort of
• 48:50
  a. A red herring thrown out there
• 48:54
  and you know, I'd love to get your thoughts on it.
• 48:58
  I would like to talk about the animals and what they ate.
• 49:01
  I'm did a quick search. I couldn't find any history of a
• 49:04
  lion eating cabbages. I think that you know the the
• 49:08
  the article I'm looking at said they had a lot of trouble
• 49:10
  getting food for the lions and other carnivores.
• 49:13
  And you know, of course, the. The Eagles and and and and
• 49:17
  kestrels and things that I did mention, but it didn't say
• 49:21
  anything about lions eating cabbages.
• 49:23
  So I don't know where you got that from.
• 49:28
  Can you Google that right now? Oh, is that you?
• 49:32
  Yeah. Well, yeah.
• 49:33
  London Zoo. During World War 2, there was a
• 49:35
  lion. There's a lion today.
• 49:37
  It's famous lion. If that is still alive, that
• 49:39
  what refuses to eat meat. It only eats plants.
• 49:43
  I covered this on video number six of my series.
• 49:45
  I don't have it. I got like 1250 thousand slides.
• 49:48
  But yes, no. Vegetarian lion.
• 49:50
  This Google Vegetarian lion. Somebody helped me out.
• 49:52
  Who's got a phone? Yeah, OK.
• 49:54
  Yeah. Well, did they still have the
• 49:57
  the fangs and ripping? Oh yeah, have.
• 50:00
  You ever seen the teeth? Have you seen the teeth of a
• 50:02
  panda bear? Well, it's just more the
• 50:06
  physical act of chewing hay requires and it lives on bamboo
• 50:13
  and the bears got thanks. Well, the pandas got sort of
• 50:17
  specialized molars for for chewing kind of thing like Mazda
• 50:20
  most. Why does it have the shark?
• 50:23
  Panda bears have sharp teeth. Why?
• 50:25
  Most defensive specialization as far as I'm aware.
• 50:30
  I'm not a biologist, but I believe it is a defensive
• 50:32
  specialization like most bears because there's an omnivorous.
• 50:39
  But really, we're talking about lions and and really, I want to
• 50:42
  talk about kestrels as well. You know the Raptors which are
• 50:46
  birds of prey, Like how did they sort of eat hay with a beak?
• 50:53
  Well, I would say going from a vegetarian hawk or eagle or one
• 50:58
  of these type of animals to a meat eating hawk or bird of prey
• 51:04
  is still a very minor change compared to going from a rock to
• 51:09
  a hawk which is what evolution teaches that.
• 51:12
  Is rock looks. The evolution theory says the
• 51:16
  Earth cooled down 4.6 billion years ago, developed a hard
• 51:19
  rocky crust. It rained on the rocks for
• 51:21
  millions of years and turned them into soup.
• 51:23
  And the soup came alive. And that first ancestor,
• 51:26
  probably amoeba of some kind, slowly became everything today.
• 51:30
  So yes, the evolution theory says we came from a rock, which
• 51:34
  is their welcome to believe. I'm not really here to talk
• 51:37
  about evolutionary theory. Like This is why I said I wanted
• 51:40
  to. Well, I wanted to address that
• 51:43
  sort of red herring of throwing out there, oh, this is what you
• 51:46
  believe or this is what evolutionists believe kind of
• 51:49
  thing. Which is a red herring because
• 51:51
  it doesn't really factor into whether the Noah's Ark story is
• 51:55
  true or false. It's just the unlikelihood of a
• 51:59
  hawk being vegetarian with a with a beak and having, you
• 52:03
  know, hooked claws. Suddenly, you know, over the
• 52:07
  course of less than 1000 years turning into a meat eater, which
• 52:10
  I'm sure you'll realize that it requires a very, very You know a
• 52:13
  cow has four stomachs for a reason.
• 52:15
  So it can digest that plant matter.
• 52:17
  Yes, well, I'm able to digest either one.
• 52:22
  I suspect you are two plants. Or here's the article.
• 52:24
  It's on creation.com. The animal, the lion was named
• 52:28
  Little Tyke, a female African lion born and raised in America.
• 52:31
  Lived your entire lifetime, Nine years without ever eating meat
• 52:36
  for owners George and Margaret Westbow were alarmed by
• 52:40
  scientists report that carnivores cannot live without
• 52:42
  meat. They went to great links to try
• 52:44
  to coax their unusual pet to develop a taste for it.
• 52:48
  They advertised a cash reward for anyone who could devise a
• 52:51
  meat containing formula that the lioness would like.
• 52:54
  And where this lioness went for nine years.
• 52:56
  Never ate meat. Ever.
• 52:58
  That is, of course, an obvious exception to the rule.
• 53:01
  The point would be that it can be done, but you're missing the
• 53:05
  much bigger point. Whether you have a meat eating
• 53:08
  lion or plant eating lion, this is a minor.
• 53:10
  It's still a lion. This is a minor change compared
• 53:14
  to what you'd like other people to believe.
• 53:15
  Instead, go ahead. That lion also got 1/2 a gallon
• 53:19
  of milk, 2 eggs for the protein because it could not get the
• 53:24
  protein in any other way. So where did they get the milk
• 53:26
  and eggs from? Well, I think on Noah's ark, the
• 53:30
  chickens will still be laying eggs.
• 53:31
  They don't seem to care what, you know, our chickens lay eggs
• 53:34
  all the time. Some chickens lay an egg every
• 53:35
  day. Many birds lay eggs sometimes
• 53:38
  very frequently. We have 30 different varieties
• 53:41
  of chickens here. I think on Noah's ark they would
• 53:43
  certainly have eggs without a problem and then they would have
• 53:46
  milk. Maybe animals were producing
• 53:48
  milk. I think during the year long,
• 53:50
  the time they're in the ark, they would be mating and having
• 53:52
  babies even. So again, you're making a minor
• 53:56
  point into the topic is is the flood story and Noah's Ark fact
• 54:02
  or faith or fiction? I think it is reasonable.
• 54:05
  So far, you've given no scientific reason why it cannot
• 54:07
  be true. Well, there's there's holes in
• 54:10
  this story is what I'm pointing out.
• 54:12
  I mean you've in another hole is just opened up because you've
• 54:15
  said you know eggs and milk but you've also claimed that our
• 54:18
  adolescent so not adult, so they wouldn't be producing.
• 54:21
  Eggs and milk. So you, here we go again.
• 54:23
  OK, we go again. A few of them were babies.
• 54:26
  If you were adolescent, if you were full grown.
• 54:29
  Oh, so now they're changing to you.
• 54:32
  Come on. Well, it it sounds like you're
• 54:35
  sort of trying to fit the age of these animals to the story and
• 54:39
  not going well. Here's the evidence we have of
• 54:42
  of I'm trying to say the story says they lived on the boat for
• 54:46
  a year. 350 other cultures say yes, there was a global flood
• 54:51
  and Noah saved on the boat with animals on the boat.
• 54:53
  And I'm when you come up with an interesting question like could
• 54:55
  that happen? Well that's a reasonable answer.
• 54:57
  I don't know. You don't know, but it's a
• 54:59
  reasonable answer that could have all kinds of sizes and
• 55:02
  shapes of animals on there. I think if I was Noah, I would
• 55:05
  bring juveniles, small ones. Why bring a big elephant?
• 55:09
  You bring babies or young ones at least for several reasons.
• 55:11
  They're smaller, they eat less, they poop less.
• 55:14
  After the flood's over, they're going to live longer to produce
• 55:16
  more babies, and that's why you're bringing them.
• 55:18
  So it would make sense to bring juveniles or young of of every
• 55:22
  every kind you can. But if you needed to bring some
• 55:25
  for milk production or for egg production, no problem.
• 55:30
  We have egg production here. What do we get?
• 55:31
  30 eggs a day here at Dinosaur Venture Land off of our stupid
• 55:34
  chickens. Well, I mean, yeah, that would
• 55:38
  require an incredible amount of chickens.
• 55:41
  I'm not sure how feasible that would be as well as you know
• 55:44
  the. Milk producing creatures, an
• 55:47
  incredible amount of them to feed all of the, you know,
• 55:50
  animals of carnivore there, aside from sort of the the
• 55:53
  ridiculousness of a high eating eagle.
• 55:58
  Another another question I had was about the koalas.
• 56:01
  Because I love koalas. Everybody loves koalas native to
• 56:05
  my home. So how did they get the
• 56:06
  eucalyptus leaves they had to eat?
• 56:09
  Well, I think you have a couple of false assumptions in your
• 56:12
  head to start this question. You're assuming that the world
• 56:15
  today that we see where eucalyptus only grows in a few
• 56:18
  places is the way it used to be before the flood.
• 56:21
  Secondly, you're assuming that the koalas, which are now very
• 56:23
  specialized in eating eucalyptus, have always been
• 56:25
  that way. You guys like to believe in
• 56:28
  evolution that animals can adapt to their environment.
• 56:30
  I think the koalas have adapted to a eucalyptus diet and they
• 56:34
  seem to like it and they seem to thrive on it and maybe their
• 56:37
  digestive system even requires it now, but that that's an
• 56:41
  adaptation to the environment, that's not evolution, it's still
• 56:44
  a koala. So you're assuming today's
• 56:46
  koalas in 2021 is what Noah took on the ark and they had to have
• 56:51
  the certain eucalyptus tree. And you're assuming that
• 56:53
  eucalyptus tree only had only grows in Australia and it didn't
• 56:56
  grow anywhere else, anywhere, anywhere before the flood came.
• 56:59
  I think they found eucalyptus fossils in other places around
• 57:01
  the world. If the pre flood world was what
• 57:04
  the Bible says, mostly land God says he formed it to be
• 57:08
  inhabited. Today, only 3% of the world is
• 57:11
  habitable. Most of it's under water, Still
• 57:14
  70% of it is still under water, A whole bunch of it's under ice
• 57:18
  caps or deserts or treeless tundra.
• 57:20
  So if only 3% of the world is habitable today, I think it'd be
• 57:24
  ludicrous to take today's environment and try to project
• 57:27
  that onto what Noah had to tolerate and what Noah had to
• 57:30
  grow up with. He probably grew up in a world
• 57:32
  that was 80 or 90% land and trees and plants, and probably
• 57:36
  everything was growing everywhere.
• 57:38
  Today certain plants won't grow in certain regions.
• 57:41
  You're in a blade of grass at the North Pole.
• 57:43
  It's ice. Okay probably wasn't that way
• 57:46
  before the flood. So you're projecting today's
• 57:48
  environment onto NOAA situation and the pre flood world and I
• 57:52
  think that's where your mistake comes in.
• 57:55
  No, I'm actually not. Euclipse have only been
• 57:57
  discovered in two places and I just double checked it in
• 58:00
  Australia and there has been ancient eucalypts discovered in
• 58:03
  South America, which you know, I'm sure you'll admit is quite a
• 58:06
  far fetch from the Near Mid East.
• 58:09
  If there was eucalypts all around the world, as as as
• 58:13
  you've sort of claimed here, it's strange that we don't find
• 58:16
  any evidence of fossilized eucalyptus and containing
• 58:19
  eucalyptus oil. They'll be readily.
• 58:22
  Identifiable as as members of that, that genus.
• 58:26
  So it's very, very strange that these eucalyptus are growing all
• 58:30
  around the world, everywhere, you know, just just filling the
• 58:32
  world. But they only are found sort of
• 58:36
  in Australia and South America. You've muted Ken.
• 58:43
  Ken, you're muted as fossils. You're good now.
• 58:49
  You're good. They've they've only been found,
• 58:52
  to your knowledge, in those two places.
• 58:53
  And I don't think all fossils have been discovered, and I
• 58:56
  don't think anybody who would care if they found a eucalyptus
• 58:59
  fossil in Lenox, Alabama. But again, you're assuming the
• 59:02
  koala bears had to have that plant.
• 59:05
  Maybe they could live on cabbage back then, and they've adapted
• 59:07
  from cabbage to eucalyptus. That'd be a minor change for a
• 59:09
  koala bear. Well, not really.
• 59:13
  I mean, this is, this is what I said at the very beginning,
• 59:15
  Mark. You don't want that book to be
• 59:18
  true. You don't want that flood story
• 59:20
  to be true. And you will jump through all
• 59:22
  kinds of circus hoops to make it so you can justify not believing
• 59:26
  in it. Okay, that's your choice.
• 59:28
  Well. I don't think it's true.
• 59:30
  I think that you're sort of engaging in a bit of mind
• 59:33
  reading as to what I want and what I don't think you know what
• 59:37
  I think and what I want. I don't think you're capable of
• 59:39
  mind reading Ken So. I don't believe it because there
• 59:44
  is no evidence for it. And and you know, the evidence
• 59:46
  that I've given seems to have all these holes and these these
• 59:49
  flaws in it. That's based upon being
• 59:51
  reasonable and rational, not not any kind of what I want.
• 59:55
  It'd be great if there was a God, but I just don't believe
• 59:57
  it. So you know, I don't think you
• 59:59
  know what I think. And and the idea that they adapt
• 1:00:02
  to eucalyptus leaves their their digestion has to be so
• 1:00:07
  specialized. It's it's it seems very very
• 1:00:10
  strange and OK, I think that evolving into modern koala that
• 1:00:15
  can feed on eucalyptus leaves in such a short time sort of shows
• 1:00:19
  that the the flood myth you know never happened because things
• 1:00:24
  don't evolve that fast. It's as simple as that they
• 1:00:27
  don't. They just don't.
• 1:00:28
  We've left about 30 topics hanging here, as you mentioned.
• 1:00:31
  Just go back and plug a few holes.
• 1:00:33
  Would you agree? Would you agree that you were
• 1:00:35
  incorrect to say the heat would be a problem for Noah's flood
• 1:00:40
  because the rising water would compress the atmosphere.
• 1:00:43
  It would not compress the atmosphere, it would lift it out
• 1:00:46
  into more into space. Plus the volume of the Earth is
• 1:00:49
  not changing the surface the water is coming from under the
• 1:00:54
  crust to the surface. The diameter of the Earth would
• 1:00:56
  remain exactly the same. Like the water came up and went
• 1:01:00
  back down. If the water came up and went
• 1:01:01
  down, where did it go? It's all still here in the
• 1:01:04
  oceans. The volume of the Earth, the
• 1:01:06
  diameter has not changed at all. Before the flood, during the
• 1:01:09
  flood, after the flood, when waves go up and down.
• 1:01:12
  Now it does not compress the air and create heat problems in the
• 1:01:15
  air. So I would you at least just to
• 1:01:17
  get that one point off the table, would you say, wow,
• 1:01:20
  can't. You're right.
• 1:01:20
  I'm sorry. Raise it would not raise the
• 1:01:22
  atmosphere's temperature. Yeah.
• 1:01:24
  We're going to have to go ahead and disagree with you there.
• 1:01:26
  If if the entire world simultaneously rose up to above
• 1:01:31
  Everest or above the highest point on the planet, which is
• 1:01:34
  what you're saying, the force of gravity keeping that air down.
• 1:01:38
  It would over the 40 days that the story says it happened in.
• 1:01:42
  I mean correct me if I'm wrong, but it says 40 days that rained
• 1:01:46
  and the water levels rose that would compress the atmosphere.
• 1:01:50
  And I think that's been very, very clearly demonstrated.
• 1:01:55
  So I I don't, I don't actually think you're right on on that
• 1:01:58
  one. I'm afraid so.
• 1:01:59
  I no, I wouldn't say that. I will concede in any way.
• 1:02:03
  Yeah. I suspected that OK, no, the
• 1:02:06
  water did not go over Mount Everest, the Bible says.
• 1:02:08
  At the end of the flood, the mountains arose, the valley sank
• 1:02:11
  down, The diameter of the earth remained.
• 1:02:14
  The same water that used to be under the crust came to the top.
• 1:02:17
  The crust would sink in the Earth's underwater.
• 1:02:20
  Certain parts of it then would lift up toward the end of the
• 1:02:23
  flood, because the earth is certainly broken up like an
• 1:02:24
  eggshell. There are fault lines all over
• 1:02:26
  the place, and plate tectonics certainly works.
• 1:02:29
  But if if a place a piece of earth the size of Texas was
• 1:02:33
  covered a mile deep in water and then it tilted slowly, this area
• 1:02:37
  would come up and become mountain ranges and this area
• 1:02:40
  would go down and the water would run off and make an ocean
• 1:02:42
  Over here and you can study the globe Mark nearly all, maybe
• 1:02:46
  all, but certainly nearly all of the mountain ranges follow the
• 1:02:49
  coastlines. The Rocky Mountains follow the
• 1:02:52
  Pacific. The Andes mountains in South
• 1:02:54
  America follow the South Pacific.
• 1:02:56
  The Appalachian Mountains follow the North Atlantic.
• 1:02:59
  I think the crust of the Earth simply shifted and tilted in the
• 1:03:02
  water when it ran into the new holes that are being created to
• 1:03:05
  become oceans and some places lifted up some place.
• 1:03:08
  If we filled this room 3 feet deep in water, lifted up that
• 1:03:11
  end of the building, the water would rush down here and now
• 1:03:14
  it's going to be 6 feet deep down there and this is going to
• 1:03:16
  be above sea level. Doesn't change the atmosphere.
• 1:03:20
  I'm sorry, I I don't think I can explain it to you.
• 1:03:23
  Yeah, it's strange that you say that the plate tectonics works
• 1:03:26
  because plate tectonics and I I agree plate tectonics does work
• 1:03:29
  and seems to be the absolutely best explanation for you know
• 1:03:33
  that the formation of the the land masses but that completely
• 1:03:37
  disagrees with flood geology. So I'm not sure to what degree
• 1:03:42
  you think that flood tectonics works, but you know you you
• 1:03:48
  basically acknowledge that that plate tectonics is does work and
• 1:03:53
  that is antithetical to your flood geology.
• 1:03:57
  No, no, no. The continents.
• 1:03:59
  The crust of the earth is certainly broken up even today.
• 1:04:03
  I taught her science for 15 years.
• 1:04:05
  There are fault lines all over the place and they are still
• 1:04:08
  moving. Some of them, some are locked
• 1:04:09
  in. There are slip faults and strike
• 1:04:11
  faults and different kinds of fault lines.
• 1:04:12
  None are my fault, but the Earth has lots of faults.
• 1:04:15
  And the Earth is shifting around.
• 1:04:16
  There's no question. That does not prove it's been
• 1:04:19
  going on for millions of years. It could have started yesterday
• 1:04:23
  or could have started 1000 years ago.
• 1:04:25
  The Earth does have plates and they are shifting.
• 1:04:28
  And right after the flood, I believe the oceans were smaller
• 1:04:32
  because the ice caps were larger.
• 1:04:34
  If you enlarge the ice cap, there's plenty of evidence that
• 1:04:37
  there was ice all the way down to Kansas City, MO.
• 1:04:40
  If the ice caps are larger, that's going to trap enormous
• 1:04:43
  amount of water. And make the oceans smaller.
• 1:04:47
  While the oceans were smaller, England would not be an island.
• 1:04:51
  England would be part of France. Pity the poor French Okay so.
• 1:04:56
  And as the oceans, as the ice melts back, it's going to raise
• 1:04:59
  the ocean level. You can look at a map, Google
• 1:05:02
  Earth. You can see the bottom of the
• 1:05:04
  ocean around Ireland and England.
• 1:05:06
  It's only 50 to 100 feet deep in the English Channel.
• 1:05:10
  So between Alaska and Russia, it's only like 60 feet deep.
• 1:05:15
  If you lowered the oceans today 60 feet or 100 feet and the
• 1:05:19
  average 12,000 feet deep, take 100 feet of water out of the
• 1:05:23
  oceans, way less than 1% of the vertical distance, and freeze it
• 1:05:29
  and stick it on the North and South pole.
• 1:05:31
  You know how can all the continents are connected.
• 1:05:33
  So this is not going to change the atmospheric pressure.
• 1:05:36
  As ice melts back it runs into the oceans.
• 1:05:38
  The the level of the circumference of the earth
• 1:05:40
  remains constant the entire time, and even if you did swell
• 1:05:43
  up the earth. The atmosphere is lifted with
• 1:05:46
  it. It does not change the
• 1:05:48
  temperature Anyway. Get somebody over there to
• 1:05:50
  explain it to you so. Well, the reason why I don't
• 1:05:52
  believe that is because, you know, you're talking about the
• 1:05:56
  the mountains rising up after the flood.
• 1:05:58
  You're talking about mountains sort of darting up in in, you
• 1:06:01
  know, less than 1000 or 1000 plus years the rate at which
• 1:06:06
  plate tectonics moves. It's impossible for those
• 1:06:10
  mountains to just suddenly zip up like that, you know, on a
• 1:06:13
  geological scale, I think that we wouldn't, we would see a much
• 1:06:18
  faster rate of plate shift if the you're, you know, rapidly
• 1:06:26
  jumping up mountains were actually true.
• 1:06:28
  And we just don't see that. We see a very, very, very slow
• 1:06:32
  progression of plate tectonics. So I think that you don't
• 1:06:35
  understand the the theory of plate tectonics and how slow it
• 1:06:40
  actually is. If you have these, you know,
• 1:06:44
  flash mountains suddenly suddenly appearing after after
• 1:06:47
  the flood. It just makes no sense to me at
• 1:06:49
  all. Well, at no time you can go back
• 1:06:52
  and listen to the tape. Your honor.
• 1:06:53
  At no time did I ever say the mountains just jumped up or
• 1:06:56
  flashed up. It might have been a slow,
• 1:06:58
  gradual process to go from sea level up five miles to if you're
• 1:07:03
  walking 5 miles an hour, it takes you one hour to go 5
• 1:07:07
  miles. If the mountains are rising 5
• 1:07:10
  miles an hour. In one hour, they're 5 miles
• 1:07:13
  high. This is not a problem.
• 1:07:15
  And what if it took five days to get up five miles high That the
• 1:07:18
  tallest mountain, Mount Everest, is only about 5 or 6 miles above
• 1:07:22
  sea level? That's not that much compared to
• 1:07:25
  the size of the 8000 mile Earth. Now you're in metric kilometers,
• 1:07:28
  I know, but the eight. The diameter of the Earth
• 1:07:32
  remains constant. The volume of the Earth remains
• 1:07:34
  constant. Things just get shuffled around.
• 1:07:37
  It doesn't change air pressure, it doesn't change air
• 1:07:39
  temperature at all. It just reshuffles things.
• 1:07:42
  And as the water runs off, it makes canyons very rapidly,
• 1:07:46
  especially in areas where the dirt is still soft.
• 1:07:48
  Mud layers from Noah's Flood Mobile Bay in Pensacola Bay
• 1:07:53
  about 7 feet deep. That's it.
• 1:07:55
  Between Australia, where you are, and Vietnam, the water is
• 1:07:59
  only about 30 or 40 feet deep. If you lowered the ocean, say 50
• 1:08:03
  feet or 70 feet to be safe, everything's connected.
• 1:08:07
  You could walk to Australia, I think after the flood the waters
• 1:08:12
  were oceans were smaller, the ice caps were bigger, trapping
• 1:08:16
  all this water, and then it would take several 100 years to
• 1:08:19
  melt that ice back. During that several 100 year
• 1:08:21
  period, animals migrated away from the ark, and certain ones
• 1:08:25
  happened to end up in Australia. The koala, the wombat, the
• 1:08:28
  kangaroo, and they. And they're less aggressive than
• 1:08:31
  other animals. Okay.
• 1:08:32
  So I think from the Noah's Ark flood story, the animals would
• 1:08:35
  migrate out away from the ark and ended up in Australia at the
• 1:08:40
  same time. The content, the water's rising
• 1:08:42
  and now they're trapped and protected from their enemies and
• 1:08:44
  they've developed all kinds of how many kinds of Kangaroos you
• 1:08:47
  have over there 20 or 30 I guess.
• 1:08:49
  And and they're they're safe from predators.
• 1:08:52
  Generally so. And I think the The Flood story,
• 1:08:55
  the title of the debate tonight was is the Flood Story.
• 1:08:58
  Is it? Is it fact or fiction?
• 1:08:59
  I think it is. It's the Flood story can explain
• 1:09:02
  everything we see on the geology of the Earth today and on the
• 1:09:06
  bio bio biographical distribution of all the animals.
• 1:09:10
  OK you jumped over a few topics there so I'll try and go back
• 1:09:15
  and address it well. I mean you went into like you
• 1:09:18
  know the the tallest mountain 5 miles high and stuff the
• 1:09:21
  mountains are high and way higher than 5 miles and you
• 1:09:23
  basically said if it went one mile a day, it might have only
• 1:09:27
  taken 5 days. Geologic, you know sort of
• 1:09:31
  events are calculated in in centimeters or or inches for for
• 1:09:35
  those in the the states, they're not mentioned in miles per you
• 1:09:42
  know the the the rates that you're giving away exorbitant.
• 1:09:45
  And if they did move at that pace we would definitely notice
• 1:09:49
  that that isn't even remotely realistic.
• 1:09:53
  I find it hilarious that you've said the animals in Australia
• 1:09:56
  are less aggressive. I don't know if you've ever come
• 1:09:59
  face to face. Hello face to face with a
• 1:10:02
  kangaroo. It's definitely more aggressive
• 1:10:05
  than you think. They are notoriously aggressive,
• 1:10:08
  including stuff like Amus, which are notoriously aggressive.
• 1:10:12
  I know we lost a war against them.
• 1:10:16
  Yeah, so, so the idea that animals in Australia are less
• 1:10:19
  aggressive is, is, I'm really sorry, It's just not accurate in
• 1:10:22
  the slightest. In fact the animals in Australia
• 1:10:24
  have a reputation for being very aggressive and I can I get a
• 1:10:27
  test of that myself. One topic at one topic at a
• 1:10:30
  time. We have three.
• 1:10:32
  You started the multiple. Topics Well we have 3 emus here
• 1:10:35
  at Dinosaur Venture Land. They are very friendly, you can
• 1:10:37
  go pet them, grab them, pull some feathers out and give it to
• 1:10:40
  the kids who come visit. I think if you put your kangaroo
• 1:10:44
  in a cage with a lion the kangaroo would lose.
• 1:10:48
  They. I agree Kangaroos can be
• 1:10:49
  aggressive. I understand.
• 1:10:50
  I've been to Australia, we've petted them and the place you
• 1:10:54
  have places over there. We have pet Kangaroos okay but
• 1:10:56
  in a in a competition with a lion they would lose.
• 1:10:59
  My point was. They're spreading out from
• 1:11:02
  Noah's Ark. They would tend to be less
• 1:11:05
  aggressive than the like, say the lions for example, and they
• 1:11:08
  ended up trapped. I don't know.
• 1:11:09
  We'll have to watch the video when we get to heaven about how
• 1:11:12
  this happened after the flood. I'll try to get the message to
• 1:11:14
  you wherever you are at the time, but the migration wave
• 1:11:19
  would be very simple away from the Kangaroos may be aggressive
• 1:11:23
  compared to people and they certainly are watched touch
• 1:11:26
  Steve Irwin, you know, fight the kangaroo.
• 1:11:27
  But the. Appear to other animals, they're
• 1:11:30
  not. So as far as Emus and stuff,
• 1:11:32
  like I said, we have them here. They can be, they can be tamed.
• 1:11:35
  And I think animals today are generally only aggressive
• 1:11:38
  because of competition for food or competition for resources
• 1:11:41
  getting on Noah's Ark if they had everything there.
• 1:11:44
  Plus if they're confined to a boat, they sleep a lot more.
• 1:11:47
  Animals that are confined sleep, a lot more people do too, that
• 1:11:50
  are confined. So on the ark, I don't think it
• 1:11:53
  would be a problem for these animals to get a law after the
• 1:11:56
  flood. They would take off and find
• 1:11:57
  their own niche. Those that have longer hair
• 1:12:00
  would be more comfortable where it's cold and tend to migrate
• 1:12:02
  north. And you know, animals tend to
• 1:12:04
  find a place where they're comfortable or nature will
• 1:12:08
  eliminate those that don't have the needed traits to survive
• 1:12:12
  there. Shorthaired dogs like you have
• 1:12:14
  the dingo in Australia that they wouldn't survive on the North
• 1:12:17
  Pole, they wouldn't survive in Alaska.
• 1:12:20
  They don't have enough fur, whereas the coyotes and the
• 1:12:22
  wolves survive just fine. And a wolf would probably not
• 1:12:25
  survive in the Outback of Australia because they got too
• 1:12:27
  much hair. They don't.
• 1:12:28
  They hold their body heat too well and they would overheat.
• 1:12:32
  So nature does the animals have adapted to their environment,
• 1:12:36
  but it's still the same kind of animal.
• 1:12:37
  In that case, it would still be the dog kind.
• 1:12:40
  Well, I I think they evolved to their animal, to their to their
• 1:12:43
  environment. But you know, that would be a
• 1:12:45
  difference between you and I perception.
• 1:12:48
  So if you think they adapt, okay, if you, if you will
• 1:12:52
  indulge me, I just have have a couple other questions.
• 1:12:55
  And while we're on animals, so the insects on the ark and I
• 1:12:59
  mentioned this in my opening with the bees and what would,
• 1:13:02
  how would the bees get pollen and nectar kind of thing.
• 1:13:05
  So do you have any answer for that?
• 1:13:09
  I guess so. Your Australian accent is
• 1:13:10
  messing me up. I don't understand your
• 1:13:12
  question. The insects on the ark did what?
• 1:13:14
  The bees for instance, or, you know, the bees or?
• 1:13:23
  Yeah, I think you have a false assumption that Noah had to have
• 1:13:26
  insects on the ark at all. Insects can survive a flood just
• 1:13:29
  fine. If Noah was in the ark for a
• 1:13:32
  year, that does not mean the whole world is flooded for a
• 1:13:35
  year. Certain parts of it might have
• 1:13:37
  only been flooded for a couple of weeks.
• 1:13:38
  All it would take just to kill the people.
• 1:13:40
  Kill the primarily to kill the people, but kill the animals too
• 1:13:43
  so insects can survive on floating log mats.
• 1:13:46
  I mean, we see this in Mount Saint Helens.
• 1:13:48
  There was a log mat that was several square miles I believe,
• 1:13:51
  but still floating. Today, 40 years later, there's a
• 1:13:55
  there's a so little biosphere, thousands and thousands of logs
• 1:13:58
  that got blown in from Mount Saint Helens.
• 1:14:00
  They're still floating there. The wind blows and log mat back
• 1:14:03
  and forth. So this floating log mat is its
• 1:14:05
  own little insects survive fine, all types of insects.
• 1:14:10
  I don't think there were flowers on the log mat.
• 1:14:14
  There were flowers on there and everything so the bees could
• 1:14:17
  collect nectar and. Flowers can Flowers can bloom on
• 1:14:20
  floating log mats. Happens all the time.
• 1:14:22
  Ask anybody studies oceanography?
• 1:14:24
  There are giant mats of vegetation floating around in
• 1:14:27
  the ocean today with flowers all over them, so there were no
• 1:14:31
  insects on the ark. I didn't say that, I said, and
• 1:14:34
  he wasn't required to. God told Noah to bring onto the
• 1:14:37
  ark all those on land. Which means don't bring the fish
• 1:14:41
  in whose nostrils is the breath of life.
• 1:14:43
  Insects don't have nostrils. They breathe through sphericals
• 1:14:45
  in their skin. So I don't believe Noah was
• 1:14:47
  required to bring insects. Some insects might have been on
• 1:14:50
  there, but he wasn't required to bring them, and they could have
• 1:14:52
  survived outside the arc, done floating log mats.
• 1:14:55
  Or if again, if the crust of the earth is flexing up and down, by
• 1:14:58
  the way, an earthquake can do rapid movement to the crust of
• 1:15:01
  the Earth, as asked the folks in Japan here recently.
• 1:15:05
  So the crust of the earth can flex very rapidly.
• 1:15:09
  Or it can flex very slowly, or slowly twist and move and
• 1:15:12
  distort continents and distort things it it's all kinds of
• 1:15:14
  variables in there. So my take would be he wasn't
• 1:15:17
  required to have insects, they can survive on a floating log
• 1:15:21
  mats. Or certain parts of the land
• 1:15:24
  might have been only underwater for a few weeks and they would
• 1:15:27
  simply move to places. If in places inundated for a few
• 1:15:30
  days. That's enough to kill all the
• 1:15:31
  animals, but I don't think it'll be enough, especially flying
• 1:15:33
  insects. By the way, right now, well,
• 1:15:36
  it's enough to kill the plants as well.
• 1:15:37
  And I mean, I'd hear you say that flowers would be on a
• 1:15:41
  floating log map, but I I have trouble believing that a hive of
• 1:15:46
  these would survive on a floating log map with very, very
• 1:15:49
  limited resources for any amount of time.
• 1:15:51
  I I have a lot of trouble believing that.
• 1:15:53
  It just seems like that's. You have a lot of you have a lot
• 1:15:56
  of trouble believing the whole flood story.
• 1:15:58
  I have a lot of trouble believing the alternative you
• 1:15:59
  guys offer of evolution. I have a real hard time
• 1:16:02
  believing we came from a rock. Well, let me jump in here real
• 1:16:05
  quick And and this has been a great, fantastic debate.
• 1:16:09
  I've got a few minutes left on the clock for the discussion.
• 1:16:11
  I'm, I guess since Mark just asked a couple questions there
• 1:16:15
  for the last couple minutes. Kent, maybe there's a couple
• 1:16:17
  questions you wanted to ask Mark as we kind of wind things down
• 1:16:21
  and it's, it's been very civil and cordial.
• 1:16:23
  Gentlemen, great discussion. So go ahead, Ken, if there's a
• 1:16:25
  question you you may have wanted to.
• 1:16:27
  Ask No, let's let's go into question answer from the
• 1:16:29
  audience here. It's already been an hour and a
• 1:16:30
  half and I'm sorry for our technical problems at the
• 1:16:32
  beginning, but go ahead, no worries.
• 1:16:34
  Time flies. I didn't even know it.
• 1:16:36
  Wow. Time flies by.
• 1:16:38
  So I just wanted to make sure that you both felt you were able
• 1:16:42
  to ask the questions you wanted to and and that it was evenly
• 1:16:45
  time what we'll do because we have a 5 minute concluding
• 1:16:48
  statement before some of these questions just to wrap things
• 1:16:51
  up, why don't we Mark you you started, you don't got to take
• 1:16:54
  the whole 5 minutes, but let's at least kind of wrap up our
• 1:16:57
  thoughts and points. Mark take up to 5 minutes.
• 1:17:00
  We'll allow Kent to do the same thing and then we'll get to some
• 1:17:02
  of these questions. Yeah.
• 1:17:04
  OK. So from from my position, I, I,
• 1:17:06
  I haven't really gotten answers that I think are credible.
• 1:17:12
  From Kent I, I do acknowledge he's tried and you know
• 1:17:15
  obviously he comes from from a belief system that that sort of
• 1:17:18
  to my mind must believe that this is true.
• 1:17:21
  So what we have here is sort of vegetarian Eagles and vegetarian
• 1:17:26
  lions and a koala bears that suddenly evolved to eating
• 1:17:33
  eucalyptus leaves within, you know, a couple of 100 years.
• 1:17:37
  It's all outside the realm of of of believability.
• 1:17:40
  It's not credible to me and and this is the reason why most
• 1:17:46
  Christians don't believe that believe that the flood store the
• 1:17:49
  the flood myth it's hyperbole it's sort of trying to teach a
• 1:17:53
  lesson and in their defense to to the Christians there there is
• 1:17:59
  still room for a God in that in that story that it is hyperbole
• 1:18:03
  and and you know sort of a a a story to teach you something
• 1:18:11
  otherwise the the the the sort of I'm trying to be charitable
• 1:18:18
  the the very farfetched things that you would have to believe
• 1:18:21
  sort of mount up and up and up. You know that that that you've
• 1:18:27
  got a a a wooden boat with a hole in the bottom is is your
• 1:18:30
  your best way of surviving there or you know these vegetarian
• 1:18:34
  carnivores that that the lion suddenly you know went from a
• 1:18:39
  high eating 4 chambered stomach of some sort and evolved quickly
• 1:18:43
  into order Carnivora within a few 1000 years as I said it
• 1:18:48
  would. The most optimistic evolutionary
• 1:18:50
  biologist wouldn't wouldn't believe that because of the
• 1:18:53
  rapidity of it. It it just is so farfetched and
• 1:18:57
  and ridiculous that yeah I I I don't think I can possibly
• 1:19:02
  entertain that that all of this happened over such short a time
• 1:19:07
  frame And but at least at least Kent and I do agree that the
• 1:19:11
  plate tectonics does work. I think that I would agree with
• 1:19:16
  the geologists that sort of say plate tectonics does take
• 1:19:19
  millions of years and less against you know these these
• 1:19:23
  plates whizzing around in a you know geologically speaking
• 1:19:27
  whizzing around in a couple of 100 years.
• 1:19:30
  I I think, I think that seems to be very unbelievable.
• 1:19:35
  What's still more believable to me is that it was perhaps a
• 1:19:38
  local flood with a smaller amount of things.
• 1:19:43
  And you know that that was exaggerated over the retelling
• 1:19:48
  and retelling of the story. By the time it was written down,
• 1:19:52
  like all good stories and tall tales do, it has been
• 1:19:55
  aggrandized into what you currently see as the flood myth.
• 1:20:00
  Thank you. Okay, I appreciate that
• 1:20:03
  concluding statement Mark. Hour and a half really has flown
• 1:20:06
  by. We've had a great chat, over 300
• 1:20:08
  people, lots of great questions for Q&A.
• 1:20:10
  So we're going to hand it over to Kent.
• 1:20:13
  You also have up to 5 minutes for a concluding statement.
• 1:20:16
  Go ahead. All right.
• 1:20:18
  I do very strongly believe the Bible is literally true.
• 1:20:20
  God created everything in six days.
• 1:20:22
  I don't think there's any way for the symbiotic relationships
• 1:20:25
  we see in nature to slowly evolve.
• 1:20:27
  I mean, certain animals require certain plants and koala
• 1:20:30
  etcetera. And I think everything was
• 1:20:32
  designed at the beginning, and I think the Bible said there would
• 1:20:34
  be scoffers who would scoff at the creation and they would
• 1:20:37
  scoff at the flood. They're willingly ignorant of
• 1:20:40
  the creation and of the flood. Second, Peter 3 talks about
• 1:20:43
  that. So I think if the topic of the
• 1:20:45
  debate was, let's see, I get the name of it right, Noah's Ark and
• 1:20:51
  the Flood? Is it fact or fiction?
• 1:20:54
  I've defended the position that I think all the facts.
• 1:20:56
  There's nothing scientifically it can be demonstrated that it's
• 1:21:00
  not factual. And why would why would God tell
• 1:21:03
  nowhere to build a boat? And why would all these
• 1:21:05
  countries have a legend about a flood?
• 1:21:07
  Now, it may be that the particular Chinese legend that
• 1:21:09
  he mentioned was about a local flood.
• 1:21:11
  Well, that doesn't mean all the rest of them are.
• 1:21:14
  There are local floods all the time.
• 1:21:17
  And I don't think logical for God to tell Noah to build a boat
• 1:21:20
  to get away from a local flood. Especially about 500 feet long.
• 1:21:24
  He could tell him. Noah move.
• 1:21:25
  I mean how far could you move in 100 years so and to fill it with
• 1:21:29
  animals and all this kind of stuff.
• 1:21:30
  So I think that the the Bible said the scoffers would be
• 1:21:33
  ignorant of the creation and the flood and the coming judgment of
• 1:21:37
  God. And that's my biggest concern
• 1:21:40
  for people like Mark. Are you prepared you're going to
• 1:21:42
  die one day. I hope you live a long time, but
• 1:21:44
  when you die then what happens? You know where if my if I'm
• 1:21:48
  right. And you're wrong.
• 1:21:50
  This is Pascal's Wager. You're in serious trouble if
• 1:21:53
  you're right and the story's not true and the Bible's not true.
• 1:21:56
  I haven't lost anything. I've lived a wonderful life.
• 1:21:58
  I've enjoyed life, just living for God, trying to live for what
• 1:22:02
  this, what this book says. So I think I went either way.
• 1:22:04
  I think you got a big chance of it being a surprise.
• 1:22:09
  Your judgment day. Anyway, we do a lot of videos
• 1:22:11
  and stuff on this topic and get my stuff on.
• 1:22:15
  Creation in the Flood from Doctor dino.com DRDINO Okay.
• 1:22:19
  Go ahead. All right, I appreciate that
• 1:22:21
  concluding statement. Doctor Hoeven.
• 1:22:24
  Fantastic debate guys. Been a ton of fun, great
• 1:22:27
  discussion, very cordial professional, and tons of great
• 1:22:31
  questions and topics discussed. So this was a lot of fun.
• 1:22:36
  Well, that being said, I want to give a disclaimer to the
• 1:22:38
  audience. I've got.
• 1:22:39
  I'm going to put 20 minutes on the timer or else we will be
• 1:22:41
  here all night and probably all day tomorrow.
• 1:22:44
  Got a ton of questions. So I want to apologize ahead of
• 1:22:47
  time if I don't get to your super chat.
• 1:22:49
  I want to thank you for the Super chat, for the support.
• 1:22:52
  If I don't get to the question, I want to apologize ahead of
• 1:22:55
  time. So we will get to as many as we
• 1:22:57
  can now as we do here. A gentleman.
• 1:23:01
  Kent, Mark, whoever the question is for, they get the response.
• 1:23:07
  Of course they get to answer it. Then we'll give, let's say the
• 1:23:09
  questions for Mark will allow Kent to have a response.
• 1:23:11
  Whoever the question was for always gets the last word though
• 1:23:14
  and and that'll allow us to move smoothly along.
• 1:23:17
  So here we go. We'll start with this super chat
• 1:23:20
  that came in. I appreciate it from one God is
• 1:23:25
  now here one. I appreciate the support.
• 1:23:27
  So this one's for you, Mark. So he asks, how did the whale
• 1:23:32
  fossils found buried in the Upper Andes Mountains get there?
• 1:23:37
  And how was the scientific method used to determine this?
• 1:23:43
  Well, I'm not a geologist, but I believe it was due to the
• 1:23:47
  shifting of plate tectonics that basically that.
• 1:23:52
  Section of mountains at one point was underwater and the
• 1:23:56
  plates do move around, so it wasn't always mountains.
• 1:24:01
  At one point it was under the ocean and I believe that they
• 1:24:06
  use the scientific method they do to to tell this is chemical
• 1:24:11
  analysis and analysis of other areas kind of thing, but as I
• 1:24:18
  said. I'm not a geologist, but I
• 1:24:20
  believe that's how they, you know, have developed the theory
• 1:24:25
  of plate tectonics. Okay.
• 1:24:28
  I appreciate that answer, Mark, to a good question I think.
• 1:24:32
  Thanks for the Super chat, cat. And if you had a response, go
• 1:24:33
  ahead. Yes, Sir.
• 1:24:35
  The fact that we have fossils at all is indication of rapid
• 1:24:39
  burial in a flood. How many animals died today
• 1:24:41
  around the world? Billions.
• 1:24:43
  How many are going to turn to fossils?
• 1:24:45
  None. Fossils simply don't form,
• 1:24:48
  certainly in any quantity today. Yet we find fossils by the
• 1:24:52
  trillions. There are fossil beds in Wyoming
• 1:24:54
  and Canada and places like that, where there are unbelievable
• 1:24:57
  numbers of fossil all tangled up, obviously buried in water,
• 1:25:02
  drowned. I mean I don't think anybody
• 1:25:04
  argues with that. The Terrell Museum up there in
• 1:25:07
  Canada has a huge area over a nearly a square mile.
• 1:25:11
  Over A1 square mile of just all fossil bones that all packed
• 1:25:14
  together from a flood. To get A and for a whale to
• 1:25:17
  drown, think about it. Whales live in the water.
• 1:25:22
  For a whale to drown, there would have to be a rapid
• 1:25:24
  temperature change in the water or problems like the rapid
• 1:25:31
  movement of the water, tidal waves and kind of things like
• 1:25:33
  that. But if if the flood story is
• 1:25:34
  correct, the fountains of the deep broke open.
• 1:25:37
  According to the Bible, the water under the crust came to
• 1:25:40
  the surface. Hot water from in the earth
• 1:25:43
  would have come up and would have killed things in the oceans
• 1:25:45
  too. There are billions of fish
• 1:25:47
  fossils found and then they all the fossils would be sorted
• 1:25:51
  based upon numerous factors based upon their habitat.
• 1:25:54
  You know where they live. Birds are generally found at the
• 1:25:56
  top because birds are the last ones to drowned in a flood.
• 1:25:59
  They run around to the fly around till they run out of gas.
• 1:26:02
  They're based upon their intelligence.
• 1:26:04
  That's sorted based upon their mobility or their body density.
• 1:26:07
  Clams are generally found at the bottom because.
• 1:26:10
  Clams are heavier shells and they already live at the bottom.
• 1:26:13
  Here's a petrified clam in the closed position.
• 1:26:15
  We have thousands of them here. Billions have been found around
• 1:26:18
  the world. To get a petrified closed clam,
• 1:26:21
  it had to be buried alive. The flood is, I think, the only
• 1:26:24
  explanation for how you get millions and millions of
• 1:26:27
  petrified closed clam water coming up rushing in from the
• 1:26:30
  side make a layer of mud 50 feet thick in 10 seconds during
• 1:26:33
  Noah's flood. So fossils are great evidence
• 1:26:36
  for the flood story. OK, well, thanks for that
• 1:26:40
  response. Can't mark the question was
• 1:26:42
  yours. So to be fair, go ahead, You can
• 1:26:44
  have the last word. Yeah.
• 1:26:46
  So the idea that fossils don't form, obviously they do.
• 1:26:48
  I think that that can sort of doing a bit of hyperbole there.
• 1:26:51
  But yes, they are rarely formed. Like we know that from the
• 1:26:55
  biomass that has existed in the world throughout the millennia.
• 1:27:00
  It's very, very rare fossils to form.
• 1:27:02
  However, they don't just form in water.
• 1:27:04
  There's famously the targets in, I believe, California.
• 1:27:09
  Do have a number of very, very famous fossils in them and and
• 1:27:13
  that's not water that was due to them falling into tar.
• 1:27:16
  So it's not only water that causes fossils, but the, the,
• 1:27:20
  the, the. Environment has to be exactly
• 1:27:24
  right for fossils to form, and we've got billions of fish
• 1:27:27
  fossils, whether it's a ton of fish, so the chances of having
• 1:27:30
  more fish is more likely because there are more fish to begin
• 1:27:33
  with. Fossils are also found out of
• 1:27:36
  order. From Kent's diagram, you do find
• 1:27:38
  clam fosils upper. Towards the top and out of order
• 1:27:41
  of what his thing says. So yeah, it's not just that
• 1:27:47
  fossils only form in water, they can form under a number of
• 1:27:50
  conditions. Just yeah, fossils are red find.
• 1:27:53
  That is definitely true, Okay. Well, I appreciate that
• 1:27:57
  response. We're going to go right to this
• 1:27:58
  next question. This one's for you, Doctor
• 1:28:01
  Hoeven, and it's related to this last question and some of the
• 1:28:04
  points you and Mark brought up. So this is a question that came
• 1:28:06
  in a while ago from XD MAN 06. I appreciate it.
• 1:28:10
  So, he says, can you ask Kent how aquatic life would be
• 1:28:15
  affected by a global flood? Well, as I mentioned, the Bible
• 1:28:20
  teaches that the fountains of the deep broke open.
• 1:28:22
  You can read the story in Genesis 6-7 and Eight.
• 1:28:25
  If the Bible story is correct, when God first made the earth,
• 1:28:28
  there was water under the crust of the earth.
• 1:28:30
  There still is today a lot of water in the crust of the earth.
• 1:28:33
  That's why we have hot thermal vents.
• 1:28:35
  You go to the bottom of the ocean, they find 10s of millions
• 1:28:38
  of hot water squirting up vents, squirting up into the bottom of
• 1:28:41
  the ocean. Well, if water squirting up into
• 1:28:44
  the bottom of the ocean, where is it coming from?
• 1:28:47
  Deeper than that, there are still huge pockets of water
• 1:28:51
  trapped under the crust in the crust of the Earth.
• 1:28:54
  Below the bottom of the ocean and they are just Google thermal
• 1:28:57
  vents. So I think before the flood came
• 1:29:00
  there was enormous amount of water stored in the crust of the
• 1:29:03
  earth. Most of that today is on the
• 1:29:05
  surface which is why the earth today is 70% underwater when God
• 1:29:10
  created it to be inhabited so something changed.
• 1:29:13
  So the hot water coming from inside the earth when the
• 1:29:16
  fountains of the deep broke open would kill the fish, would kill
• 1:29:20
  anything swimming in the water rapidly just from the thermal
• 1:29:23
  shock. I mean, temperature goes from,
• 1:29:25
  say, 70 degrees to 150 degrees in Fahrenheit in a few seconds.
• 1:29:30
  Everything's going to die in in the water within a certain
• 1:29:33
  effective radius. And most of this seems to be
• 1:29:35
  along the fault lines. When the Earth cracked up, the
• 1:29:38
  water would squirt out in hot water.
• 1:29:40
  It would kill everything within 10 miles, and maybe most things
• 1:29:42
  within 20 miles and a few things within 50 miles.
• 1:29:46
  But the temperature is going to dissipate as it spreads out.
• 1:29:48
  It's going to be absorbed by the rest of the ocean.
• 1:29:50
  So I think again, the Flood story would offer a reasonable
• 1:29:52
  explanation for why we find fossils at all and certainly why
• 1:29:56
  we find billions and billions of fish fossils.
• 1:30:00
  Fish fossils are not rare, they're one of the most common.
• 1:30:04
  So I think there was a temperature change, rapid
• 1:30:06
  temperature change in the ocean. Well, thank you for that answer,
• 1:30:09
  Kent. Mark, if you'd like to respond
• 1:30:12
  to anything, go ahead. Yeah, I I'm not 100% sure you
• 1:30:16
  know where these the thermal vents and how they would spew
• 1:30:19
  such an amount of water through, but you know, sure.
• 1:30:23
  Now the the aquatic life, how would it be affected or I mean I
• 1:30:26
  had no idea that it was supposed to be fresh water coming up
• 1:30:29
  here, which would rapidly kill all the sea life.
• 1:30:32
  If you take it the salt water fish and put it rapidly into a
• 1:30:36
  fresh water, it will die. So I I think that that's even
• 1:30:40
  more implausible. And you know this whole idea of
• 1:30:45
  thermal shock, it it seems very, very strange that at one point
• 1:30:50
  you know, it kept saying well it wouldn't affect the the
• 1:30:53
  atmosphere thermal and perhaps that's not what he's referring
• 1:30:56
  to and suddenly it it has thermal shock from thermal vents
• 1:31:02
  creating fish fossils. I I think that that if thermal
• 1:31:08
  that that if water did come, fresh water did come into the
• 1:31:12
  salt water, you'd have a myriad of problems.
• 1:31:15
  I mean all the fish would die not just a a great deal on many
• 1:31:18
  of them and have fish fossils it did everything would die as well
• 1:31:23
  as you know the problems with turning off the the currents
• 1:31:26
  throughout the the ocean. Yeah, to me, to me, that seems
• 1:31:31
  less credible that it is fresh water than it is salt water.
• 1:31:38
  All right, Well, thanks for that response, Mark.
• 1:31:40
  The question was for you, Doctor Hoven.
• 1:31:42
  So to be fair, you get the last word.
• 1:31:43
  Go ahead. Well, again, he's he's got some
• 1:31:46
  false assumptions. He's assuming the ocean was salt
• 1:31:48
  water. I think everything was fresh
• 1:31:50
  water, some of it hot, some of it cold.
• 1:31:52
  The oceans are getting saltier today.
• 1:31:55
  They mineral salts wash off every time it rains into the
• 1:31:59
  oceans, and the oceans are gaining salt every day.
• 1:32:02
  Evaporation takes out just the water.
• 1:32:05
  The distillation process, the water, the clouds float over the
• 1:32:07
  land rains again, there's a giant cycle going on that is
• 1:32:11
  constantly adding salt to the ocean.
• 1:32:14
  That puts a time limit on how old the oceans are.
• 1:32:17
  During the flood, I think everything was fresh water.
• 1:32:20
  And no one didn't have to bring water on the arc, just get it
• 1:32:23
  right out, drop the buckets overboard or have a moon pool to
• 1:32:25
  fill your troughs. But so yeah, and the idea of a
• 1:32:29
  thermal vent raising the temperature of the atmosphere I
• 1:32:33
  think is. You need to do some physics
• 1:32:35
  lessons on that. The if a volcano blows up now,
• 1:32:39
  does it raise the temperature worldwide or is it, is it
• 1:32:42
  dissipated into, you know, it's a big planet, Volcanoes are
• 1:32:45
  going off right now several places around the world, and it
• 1:32:49
  raises the temperature within an effective, you know, 10 or 20
• 1:32:51
  miles. But then it's quickly diluted
• 1:32:54
  with all the rest of the air. The air is, you know, the
• 1:32:56
  world's awfully big. So I don't think there's any
• 1:32:58
  problem for the flood story with that analogy.
• 1:33:01
  Go ahead. OK.
• 1:33:02
  I appreciate that, Ken. So next question to be fair,
• 1:33:04
  we'll get one for you. Now Mark, this one comes in all
• 1:33:08
  the way near the beginning from redefined living.
• 1:33:11
  So he says question for actually question for both.
• 1:33:14
  So we'll get you both involved here.
• 1:33:16
  How would you explain a Poly straight fossil from your model?
• 1:33:24
  Did you want to go first, Ken, or do you want me?
• 1:33:27
  To go ahead. OK, so I believe with polystrate
• 1:33:31
  and again I'll iterate again, I'm not a geologist, but a
• 1:33:33
  polystrate fossil is one that basically goes through multiple
• 1:33:39
  layers kind of thing. And this is usually when if I'm
• 1:33:44
  not mistaken, a tree basically is dies and then these the
• 1:33:50
  different rock is built up on top of it.
• 1:33:53
  So it can go through multiple layers.
• 1:33:57
  As as it compresses and and and more and more sediment and other
• 1:34:02
  other material is piled on top of it, it compresses down the
• 1:34:08
  tree, but it still does. It still does have go stream
• 1:34:14
  multiple layers from from where it is.
• 1:34:17
  There's nothing unusual in geology as far as I'm aware of
• 1:34:22
  that occurring. Okay, I appreciate that
• 1:34:27
  response. Mark and Kat, go ahead.
• 1:34:31
  Well, Mount Saint Helens blew thousands of trees into Spirit
• 1:34:35
  Lake. My sister lived up near there
• 1:34:37
  when it happened, and I've been up there several times and
• 1:34:39
  studied this. Thousands of those trees are
• 1:34:42
  still floating today, 40 years later, and many hundreds of them
• 1:34:46
  are floating in the upright position.
• 1:34:49
  Because the root end is heavier and it's saying, and they're
• 1:34:51
  going to slowly settle out and sink in the bottom.
• 1:34:53
  There are already hundreds and hundreds of trees stuck in the
• 1:34:56
  mud at the bottom of Spirit Lake.
• 1:34:58
  New layers of sediment are accumulating all the time.
• 1:35:01
  Every time there's a storm, it washes mud in off the mountains
• 1:35:03
  around there And petrified trees that are found standing up,
• 1:35:08
  called a Polystrada fossil as the as the questioner mentioned,
• 1:35:11
  are quite, quite, quite common. Sometimes they're upside down.
• 1:35:16
  Now you got a real problem. If the tree is upside down,
• 1:35:19
  petrified, running through many layers, the layers are not
• 1:35:22
  different ages. Here's some in in France, the
• 1:35:24
  British Isles. They have those in Germany, Nova
• 1:35:26
  Scotia, Canada. There's from Nova Scotia right
• 1:35:28
  there. These are in France.
• 1:35:31
  Petrified trees standing up, Here's me by one in Yellowstone
• 1:35:35
  National Park are are pretty common.
• 1:35:38
  Polystrada fossils are indication of rapid burial
• 1:35:42
  there. They are Mount Saint Helens.
• 1:35:44
  No, back here. So I think it was.
• 1:35:47
  It happened during the flood of Noah.
• 1:35:48
  All of the layers would have formed in a matter of a few
• 1:35:51
  months during the flood. Just the moon pulling the tide
• 1:35:54
  up and down. If the tide's going up and down,
• 1:35:57
  it's rushing in and out. Also this is going to rapid
• 1:36:01
  stratification process. So all the layers would have
• 1:36:04
  been formed in one year. And petrified trees that are
• 1:36:07
  standing up connecting all those layers is an indication the
• 1:36:10
  layers are not different ages. Maybe by a few weeks, but not
• 1:36:14
  certainly millions of years like they teach.
• 1:36:17
  So if it's my model, fine, okay, I appreciate that was a question
• 1:36:21
  for both. You both got an answer.
• 1:36:22
  So let's go to this next question.
• 1:36:26
  Mark, I want to thank you for being a good sport because most
• 1:36:29
  of these are for you. So this next one.
• 1:36:32
  Yeah, no worries, No worries. I appreciate you're in the lions
• 1:36:35
  den. You're doing a good job.
• 1:36:36
  So this one comes in from, let me see here, Creation creatures.
• 1:36:46
  So he asked. This one came in a few times,
• 1:36:48
  actually. I've got a few different
• 1:36:50
  questions here on the Grand Canyon, so this is kind of going
• 1:36:53
  to get through many and one. So he asks Mark, how did the
• 1:36:57
  Grand Canyon get carved up if there wasn't a global flood?
• 1:37:08
  Yeah, just just goes through road to road to roads and it
• 1:37:11
  cuts down through the rock. Enough time and that river will
• 1:37:15
  cut a Canyon in in the landscape and and before I hand it to Kent
• 1:37:20
  for a response before I forget because the chats flying we've
• 1:37:23
  got two after shows so there's one on logical plausible
• 1:37:26
  probables channel. Thank you for the Super chat.
• 1:37:29
  He says he's coming out of retirement.
• 1:37:31
  His after show kicks off 5 minutes after this debate and
• 1:37:35
  also Amy Newman also has an after show.
• 1:37:38
  If Amy wants to put the link or anything in the chat, I can put
• 1:37:43
  that up on screen as well. So we got two epic after shows
• 1:37:45
  after this epic debate. So that being said, Kent, go
• 1:37:48
  ahead if you wanted a response as well to the Grand Canyon
• 1:37:50
  question. Yeah, Grand Canyon was not
• 1:37:53
  formed by the Colorado River. That's ludicrous.
• 1:37:55
  The top of the Canyon is 7000 or 8000 feet above sea level.
• 1:37:58
  The river enters the Canyon at less than 3000 feet, 2800 to be
• 1:38:02
  exact. If you plugged up Grand Canyon
• 1:38:04
  today, a great Big Lake would fill up going back to Colorado
• 1:38:09
  and to New Mexico or to Arizona. So I mean New Mexico I think any
• 1:38:14
  this in Bruton, Alabama South of me 20 miles.
• 1:38:16
  This farmer's lake got too full and anytime any lake gets too
• 1:38:20
  full it finds the lowest point, cuts a notch and drains all the
• 1:38:24
  water out. Tom Sauk Reservoir.
• 1:38:27
  Got overfilled back in 2005. It carved out a notch.
• 1:38:30
  One side of the dam drain. The whole thing in 10 minutes is
• 1:38:34
  Google Tomshawk Reservoir. This happens all the time.
• 1:38:37
  Canyon formation is not mysterious.
• 1:38:39
  They know how it happened. But to say Grand Canyon formed
• 1:38:41
  by that river is is absolutely not possible.
• 1:38:45
  The bottom of the Little River did not make that Canyon.
• 1:38:47
  I'll show you the schematic of it here.
• 1:38:49
  I've got pictures in my video. Number six.
• 1:38:51
  I guess it's not different, Different presentation.
• 1:38:54
  So the top of the Canyon is 7000 foot elevation.
• 1:38:58
  The river enters the Canyon at less than 3000 feet, exits a
• 1:39:02
  Canyon at 1800 feet. River flow downhill, all rivers
• 1:39:05
  flow downhill. Grand Canyon is a washed out
• 1:39:08
  dam, a really big one, probably formed in less than a week, not
• 1:39:13
  millions of years. That Little River at the bottom
• 1:39:16
  of the Canyon did not make that Canyon.
• 1:39:17
  It flows through the crack, and sometimes the river dries up,
• 1:39:21
  but it didn't make that Canyon. Now, Saint Helens, same thing.
• 1:39:25
  Giant Canyon formed there today. There's a little Creek running
• 1:39:27
  through the bottom of that giant Canyon.
• 1:39:29
  The Canyon formed in ours. The creek's been flowing through
• 1:39:33
  it for 40 years. Had nothing to do with the
• 1:39:34
  Canyon. OK.
• 1:39:35
  Go ahead. OK.
• 1:39:37
  Thank you, Kent, for that answer.
• 1:39:39
  Mark, the question was originally for you.
• 1:39:41
  To be fair, if you want, you can have the last word.
• 1:39:43
  Yeah, sure. So yeah, Kent sort of disagrees
• 1:39:46
  with with current geological thought and it, you know, his is
• 1:39:51
  the idea that river, it wasn't the river by itself.
• 1:39:55
  How did it form was the river. It cuts a channel, but it's also
• 1:39:58
  a number of forces acting upon it, like erosion and wind, and
• 1:40:02
  just just a whole bunch of forces over an incredible amount
• 1:40:06
  of time. So I don't know where this this
• 1:40:10
  sort of belief that the the river cannot carve a channel
• 1:40:14
  comes from. It it the river carving a
• 1:40:18
  channel absolutely fits with with current geological models.
• 1:40:22
  So I I've had no idea where where Kent's getting this this
• 1:40:26
  from. It's a baffling to me and you
• 1:40:29
  know geologic consensus would definitely agree with me on
• 1:40:32
  this. So you know feel free to Google
• 1:40:34
  it. You know, I'm sure if you know
• 1:40:37
  the Internet can provide more information than I can.
• 1:40:41
  OK, well, I'm gonna, I want to at least get through these super
• 1:40:43
  chat. So I got another super chat from
• 1:40:44
  here. Thanks again to Mark and Kent
• 1:40:47
  for their responses there on that question.
• 1:40:48
  So this one comes in from one God is now here $10 super chat.
• 1:40:51
  I appreciate it. So he says.
• 1:40:53
  I think this is more so directed at you, Mark.
• 1:40:55
  So we'll have you respond first, he says testable prediction.
• 1:40:58
  Small local floods do not leave behind graveyards full of
• 1:41:03
  thousands. Of drowned animals.
• 1:41:08
  Well, if he's talking about the fossil record, it's kind of hard
• 1:41:12
  to tell why animals have died. I mean, you had the whale
• 1:41:16
  example earlier and I would have loved to get to this.
• 1:41:19
  So I'll mention it now. You know, do we know that the
• 1:41:22
  whale drowned? No, we don't.
• 1:41:25
  We have no idea that the whale drowned or any of these other
• 1:41:27
  fossils drowned. We you're just basically
• 1:41:29
  assuming that they did drown because you believe that a flood
• 1:41:33
  did happen. They may have died from natural
• 1:41:37
  causes. They may have died from some
• 1:41:39
  cataclysmic event. They may have died from
• 1:41:43
  predation and left the fossil as the binds were left.
• 1:41:46
  It's the conditions that make the fossil, not how they died.
• 1:41:51
  So that sort of is based upon a faulty assumption just straight
• 1:41:55
  off the bat. OK.
• 1:41:58
  I appreciate that response. Mark and Kent, if you had a
• 1:42:01
  response, go ahead. I'm sorry, I was distracted.
• 1:42:05
  Ask a question one more time. Sure, yeah, The question was,
• 1:42:10
  oh, here it is. Testable predictions.
• 1:42:12
  Small local floods do not leave behind graveyards full of
• 1:42:16
  thousands of drowned animals. Correct.
• 1:42:21
  Most animals can sense a flood coming and flee from it.
• 1:42:24
  I think you'll find, as I mentioned earlier, fossilization
• 1:42:27
  in general is a very rare process.
• 1:42:30
  And there are trillions of fossils in the ground.
• 1:42:33
  It's not like fossils are hard to find.
• 1:42:36
  It's like they're hard to interpret for the evolution
• 1:42:37
  story because they simple fossils simply don't form in any
• 1:42:40
  significant numbers today, especially giant tangled up
• 1:42:44
  messes of fossils all tangled together.
• 1:42:47
  This was a global flood that destroyed the world.
• 1:42:51
  I finally found my slides on Grand Canyon, if that matters.
• 1:42:54
  I got about 50,000 slides here. Grand Canyon.
• 1:42:58
  And here's the schematic. I at least want to show you this
• 1:43:00
  so your visitors. The top of the Canyon is 6900 to
• 1:43:03
  8500 feet high. The river enters the Canyon at
• 1:43:06
  2800 foot elevation and flows downhill.
• 1:43:10
  The top is higher than where the river top.
• 1:43:12
  The river only goes to the bottom.
• 1:43:14
  That river did not make that Canyon.
• 1:43:17
  The river flows through the Canyon.
• 1:43:19
  If you plugged up Grand Canyon today, there would be a giant
• 1:43:21
  lake behind it that will go back to Colorado, back to New Mexico.
• 1:43:25
  There's what it would look like. Monument Valley there.
• 1:43:28
  Oh, there you go. So Grand Lake would form if you
• 1:43:31
  plug the Canyon today, just plug it up, take a lot of dirt, but
• 1:43:34
  you would form Grand Lake again. It got too full, went over the
• 1:43:38
  top and probably washed out Grand Canyon in a matter of few
• 1:43:42
  days, a week, maybe not millions of years, but so yeah, fossils
• 1:43:46
  that are not forming in any significant number today.
• 1:43:48
  I think the Flood's the only explanation for the giant fossil
• 1:43:51
  graveyards. Okay, I appreciate that
• 1:43:53
  response. And Mark?
• 1:43:56
  Question was originally directed at you.
• 1:43:58
  To be fair, go ahead. Yeah, that kind of went a tiny
• 1:44:01
  bit sideways. So the fossils sort of, you
• 1:44:05
  know, saying the fossils are antithetical to evolution,
• 1:44:09
  fossils are integral to evolutionary theory.
• 1:44:12
  They're used in many ways to show you the transition of form.
• 1:44:16
  So I don't know where Kent is getting that from.
• 1:44:20
  So when you say they sense all sense of flood and fleet from,
• 1:44:24
  well, we know animals do die in floods.
• 1:44:26
  I mean, you know, there's there's multiple times where
• 1:44:29
  farmers have lost their stock to to floods coming through even
• 1:44:34
  local floods. And and you know, again I want
• 1:44:37
  to reiterate that you're saying, Oh well, on that scale of that
• 1:44:41
  we see, you know, millions of fossils bull.
• 1:44:43
  Yeah. But you've got no evidence that
• 1:44:45
  they actually died from a flood. That's that's the whole point.
• 1:44:50
  And I think, I think maybe Kent missed that now with with his
• 1:44:53
  slides and stuff that he even acknowledges that the Grand
• 1:44:57
  Canyon, as his slide says, is a washed out dam i.e. that water
• 1:45:02
  cut that path down. The only difference between what
• 1:45:05
  we're claiming is that I'm claiming that it happened over
• 1:45:08
  millions and millions of years and Kent claims that it happened
• 1:45:12
  in, you know, a brief time which the Grand Canyon is on that.
• 1:45:18
  I don't think that's realistic in the slightest.
• 1:45:22
  Thank you. I appreciate that.
• 1:45:24
  That was your question mark. So it'll be fair.
• 1:45:26
  We're gonna give you the last word.
• 1:45:27
  So we're gonna, we're coming up at the two hour mark.
• 1:45:30
  So we're gonna wind it down with this last question here again.
• 1:45:34
  This one's for. For you, Mark.
• 1:45:37
  Actually I've got one, one last question for you, one last for
• 1:45:39
  for Kent and then we're going to call it tonight to be fair.
• 1:45:42
  So this one is from Anthony, 1701, so I appreciate it.
• 1:45:45
  Anthony, question for Mark. You said there is no evidence
• 1:45:49
  for the flood. By evidence do you mean you and
• 1:45:52
  others have to agree with what is given as evidence for the
• 1:45:56
  flood for it to be good evidence?
• 1:45:59
  Well I think that the I mean good evidence is a whole nother
• 1:46:02
  debate which I've done before and I'm I'm happy to do.
• 1:46:06
  But really we want to see evidence is usually indicative
• 1:46:10
  of 1 answer. It leads towards One Direction
• 1:46:14
  and and good evidence or evidences always Co support one
• 1:46:19
  another. So all of these things support
• 1:46:21
  one another's story basically. So with the flood myth, there's
• 1:46:26
  that many problems with it that it fails to support one another.
• 1:46:32
  You've got that many holes in it.
• 1:46:34
  And good evidence doesn't have these holes.
• 1:46:37
  It doesn't have these. Trying to fit a round peg in a
• 1:46:41
  square hole of oh, but you know this explanation, which then
• 1:46:46
  adds another question, and then this.
• 1:46:48
  Well, it adds another question. What this usually is indicative
• 1:46:52
  of is having the conclusion upfront, i.e. believing it
• 1:46:56
  happened upfront, and then moving to find things to plug up
• 1:47:01
  what you think already happened, rather than examining the
• 1:47:04
  evidence and letting that lead you to a conclusion.
• 1:47:09
  I don't want to be rude to Kent, but I think that his approach is
• 1:47:13
  conclusion first, evidence later, and I think that that's
• 1:47:17
  very evident in in the discussion that we've had.
• 1:47:21
  Okay, thank you for that answer, Mark.
• 1:47:23
  We'll throw it over to you to Doctor Oven if there's anything
• 1:47:25
  you wanted to add. Well, I would say Mark is doing
• 1:47:29
  exactly what he's accusing me of.
• 1:47:30
  He's already come to the conclusion the flood didn't
• 1:47:32
  happen. The Earth is billions of years
• 1:47:33
  old, and he's looking at all the he's trying to force all the
• 1:47:36
  evidence to the square peg into the round hole.
• 1:47:38
  It's him doing exactly what he's accusing me of here.
• 1:47:40
  Fossils don't form at all in any significant numbers without
• 1:47:43
  rapid burial. Fossils do not indicate anything
• 1:47:47
  for evolution. If you find a fossil in the
• 1:47:49
  dirt, all you really could prove is it died.
• 1:47:51
  You could not prove it's transitional between anything
• 1:47:54
  else. You could not prove it had any
• 1:47:55
  children at all. For that matter, you certainly
• 1:47:57
  couldn't prove it had children that lived.
• 1:47:59
  So the idea that fossils are transitional is ludicrous.
• 1:48:02
  Fossils are indication of death and rapid burial because animals
• 1:48:06
  died today and they don't fossilize.
• 1:48:08
  The coyotes in the Buzzard scatter them all over the woods.
• 1:48:11
  There are sedimentary rock layers found worldwide.
• 1:48:14
  I think there was a flood. There are fossils found
• 1:48:17
  worldwide, and I don't take the conclusion and may try to force
• 1:48:22
  the evidence into my conclusion. I think Mark is exactly what
• 1:48:24
  you're doing. I'd like it look at all the
• 1:48:26
  evidence and say, wow, this looks like these animals died
• 1:48:28
  quickly. I bet they drown, and there's a
• 1:48:31
  lot of them. When there's 800 million animals
• 1:48:34
  in the Carew formation, 800 million in one big graveyard, I
• 1:48:39
  think that would take a flood to do something like that.
• 1:48:41
  So I think the Bible clearly says there was a flood.
• 1:48:44
  Jesus believed in a flood. Isaiah believed in the flood.
• 1:48:47
  The prophets of many of them talked about a flood in the days
• 1:48:49
  of Noah. So Mark's position, well, I'm
• 1:48:52
  sure he understands this and probably doesn't doesn't bother
• 1:48:54
  him. But his position clearly is
• 1:48:55
  saying the Bible is wrong. Jesus was wrong.
• 1:48:59
  The 350 flood legends around the world, they're all wrong.
• 1:49:02
  He's right. So sad.
• 1:49:06
  Go ahead well. Thanks for that answer, Kent.
• 1:49:08
  Now Mark, we do have one last question that I miss.
• 1:49:11
  It's actually a super chat. It has to do with the flood
• 1:49:13
  again. So I know you probably want to
• 1:49:15
  respond to something that Kent said there.
• 1:49:17
  Yeah, You want to have a quick response and then I'll throw
• 1:49:19
  this last button at you. I'll have a quick response.
• 1:49:22
  And just to say that I'm not forcing evidence in in One
• 1:49:25
  Direction, There's been a number of these myths throughout
• 1:49:27
  antiquity, part of religious background, part of mythological
• 1:49:31
  background, like, you know, the 12 tasks of Hercules and all of
• 1:49:34
  these stories and Mohammed, splitting the moon and things
• 1:49:37
  like that. We see whether the evidence does
• 1:49:40
  back it up. We don't force a conclusion that
• 1:49:42
  it didn't, but but there's no reason to believe that it
• 1:49:44
  actually happened. Now for fossils and evolution
• 1:49:47
  really, fossils are part of evolutionary study that's very,
• 1:49:52
  very noted. There's predictive powers that
• 1:49:54
  we have, like we found the fossil of Arctic turrets.
• 1:49:59
  I think I've said that wrong, but it was basically they
• 1:50:01
  predicted a bird with teeth. They did find a fossil of a bird
• 1:50:05
  with teeth and and so it's fossils are integral to the
• 1:50:10
  evolutionary theory. Regardless of what what Kent's
• 1:50:13
  claiming right now and the whole idea that I'm right, no, I don't
• 1:50:16
  think so. I'm just more relying on the
• 1:50:19
  studies of experts and people with a lot more knowledge in the
• 1:50:22
  field that I am and merely presenting their conclusions as
• 1:50:27
  my evidence today. So it's not just that I'm right,
• 1:50:30
  is is, I think a bit misleading. Sorry, go ahead standing for
• 1:50:34
  truth. Oh, no problem.
• 1:50:35
  It was your question. So you get the last word.
• 1:50:37
  I appreciate that. So we're going to make this the
• 1:50:38
  last question. It is a super chat.
• 1:50:40
  Again, I want to apologize to anybody in the chat whose
• 1:50:42
  question we did not get to. We are already going over on the
• 1:50:45
  Q&A. We're about 25 to 30 minute
• 1:50:47
  mark. So that being said, this is the
• 1:50:49
  last question comes in the form of a super chat.
• 1:50:52
  It's for you. Mark from One God is now here
• 1:50:56
  again $10 super chat. I appreciate the support.
• 1:50:58
  He says the average 7 foot thick layer of limestone.
• 1:51:03
  Loaded with not alloys in the Grand Canyon is another proof
• 1:51:08
  that Little River didn't carve the Canyon.
• 1:51:11
  So go ahead that yeah. So yeah, well, limestone is, you
• 1:51:17
  know, I mean it is a pretty thick rock.
• 1:51:22
  I don't think it is at all implausible to think that that
• 1:51:29
  water over a long period of time could not carve through
• 1:51:32
  limestone. I mean, if you do have a a
• 1:51:35
  pressure hose, you can, you know, sort of with enough
• 1:51:39
  pressure you can certainly carve through stone with water.
• 1:51:43
  It does have incredible cutting power.
• 1:51:47
  They do have machines that, using simply water pressure, can
• 1:51:50
  cut through steel. And now I'm not claiming that
• 1:51:53
  that kind of pressure is involved in the Grand Canyon,
• 1:51:58
  but over a large amount of time that Channel becomes a ditch,
• 1:52:05
  that ditch becomes a much larger ditch and much larger, and
• 1:52:09
  eventually, you know, it turns into a ravine which then turns
• 1:52:13
  into a Canyon. It's not implausible at all, and
• 1:52:17
  current geological theory does support it, so I'm not sure why
• 1:52:23
  you would be incredulous to limestone specifically being cut
• 1:52:28
  through when water is used to cut all kinds of things.
• 1:52:32
  All right. Well, thanks for the question
• 1:52:34
  from one. God is now here.
• 1:52:35
  Thanks for the response, Mark and Kent.
• 1:52:37
  This is the last question. So therefore, if you had
• 1:52:39
  anything you wanted to add, go ahead.
• 1:52:41
  Well, yes. I think there are giant canyons
• 1:52:43
  all over the world, and I think they're carved rapidly.
• 1:52:45
  Once water starts moving, it picks up debris and it becomes
• 1:52:48
  liquid sandpaper. So you get not only the erosion
• 1:52:51
  factor, you get the abrasion factor.
• 1:52:53
  If it's moving fast enough, you get liquefaction and cavitation.
• 1:52:57
  So I think they're quite a few phenomenons of rapidly moving
• 1:52:59
  water that are fairly well understood.
• 1:53:01
  Anybody has a boat propeller in those chances about cavitation
• 1:53:04
  pits from rapidly moving material through the water.
• 1:53:07
  So I think all the canyons could in Grand Canyon could have been
• 1:53:09
  formed in a week with those factors, not just erosion but
• 1:53:13
  abrasion. It's picking up debris, running
• 1:53:15
  with it, cavitation liquefaction.
• 1:53:18
  So I think the Bible says the scoffers are ignorant of the
• 1:53:20
  flood and that the Grand Canyon is an example of all the
• 1:53:24
  canyons. Most of the canyons of the world
• 1:53:26
  probably form pretty rapidly as the flood water was running off
• 1:53:30
  into its current basins. Okay.
• 1:53:32
  All right. I appreciate that, Kent.
• 1:53:34
  Mark, a quick final word and then we're going to start
• 1:53:37
  wrapping it up. Go ahead Mark.
• 1:53:39
  Yeah. So it's interesting.
• 1:53:40
  It was Ken and I basically do agree that it could water could
• 1:53:42
  have made it through this, this rock layers, you know that.
• 1:53:46
  So we do agree. We just disagree on the nature
• 1:53:48
  and the speed at which it happened.
• 1:53:50
  I think that it's it's a completely implausible to think
• 1:53:53
  that you know the seven foot thick limestone could be carved
• 1:53:57
  through in a week regardless of how much water or how much
• 1:54:01
  sediment is in it. It just is completely
• 1:54:03
  implausible. However, you know, it's nice to
• 1:54:05
  know we do agree that water can carve through rot.
• 1:54:10
  But you know, really my my claim is that it would have taken
• 1:54:15
  millions of years, which is a lot more plausible for 7 foot
• 1:54:18
  thick limestone than than a week.
• 1:54:22
  All right. Well, thank you.
• 1:54:23
  That wraps up the Q&A. Tons of fun.
• 1:54:25
  This was a great debate. We've had a great chat.
• 1:54:28
  And you guys really made for an epic must watch debate on Noah's
• 1:54:33
  ark and Noah's flood. So before we shut it down I want
• 1:54:36
  to just hand it to you guys. I want to say thank you again.
• 1:54:38
  We went nearly we went two hours.
• 1:54:40
  I want to thank you for giving us your time.
• 1:54:42
  Great endurance from the both of you.
• 1:54:44
  Any final words Final thoughts before we shut it down.
• 1:54:47
  We can start with you at Doctor Hoban.
• 1:54:48
  I'm. Sorry, start with me.
• 1:54:51
  Yeah, any final words? Well, I believe the Bible is
• 1:54:54
  true. I believe God made everything in
• 1:54:56
  six days. That's the only way creation is
• 1:54:57
  going to work. I believe there was a flood that
• 1:54:59
  destroyed everything. I believe the flood story is
• 1:55:01
  true. I believe Jesus came, died on
• 1:55:03
  the cross and rose from the dead.
• 1:55:04
  And if you don't have him as your savior, you're going to
• 1:55:06
  hell. What the Bible says, I don't
• 1:55:07
  want that for anybody, but that's what's going to happen.
• 1:55:10
  So I'd like to see everybody trust Jesus Christ as their
• 1:55:12
  savior and get born again and become an independent,
• 1:55:14
  temperamental, fundamental right wing.
• 1:55:15
  Radical Baptist. When it's over, Okay.
• 1:55:19
  Thank you and thanks for giving us your time.
• 1:55:21
  Mark, any final words? Thank you as well for giving us
• 1:55:24
  your time for tonight. Thank you so much.
• 1:55:26
  Saying to provide a blast. Thank you so much, Kent.
• 1:55:28
  Pleasure to meet you and talk to you.
• 1:55:31
  And I really do want to thank the audience for for listening
• 1:55:33
  in and giving me their time and and sort of hearing me out.
• 1:55:37
  I'm. I don't believe in the Bible.
• 1:55:39
  I don't believe in God. I do believe in morality.
• 1:55:41
  I do believe in secular humanism.
• 1:55:44
  There's a lot of things I I do believe even though I don't
• 1:55:46
  believe in the Bible. I'm not convinced by any
• 1:55:49
  threats. I'm not convinced by any sort of
• 1:55:52
  the promises of of punishment or anything like it.
• 1:55:55
  What I'll be convinced by is fact and evidence and good
• 1:55:59
  reasoning. And yeah, I I really do hope I I
• 1:56:03
  do see some some of that at some point that would convince me.
• 1:56:07
  But until then I would have to say that I've seen no reason to
• 1:56:11
  believe in the claims presented to me.
• 1:56:13
  But thank you so much for having me on.
• 1:56:15
  I've really enjoyed it. Amy's after show was always
• 1:56:17
  wonderful. They're very theist friendly so,
• 1:56:21
  so you know do come along if you if you do have the time or
• 1:56:25
  inclination. All right.
• 1:56:26
  Well, thank you for those final words, Mark.
• 1:56:28
  Thanks as well. Ken, epic debate reminder to the
• 1:56:31
  audience. We're going to be back here
• 1:56:32
  again tomorrow night, 8:00, Matt Powell versus Dr. Kenny Rhodes,
• 1:56:35
  old Earth creation versus young Earth creation.
• 1:56:37
  So the fun continues. That being said, thanks again to
• 1:56:42
  the audience. Thanks, Mark.
• 1:56:43
  Thanks, Kent. And standing for truth is out.