Latest / The You Project / #2237 What Shouldn't We Expect - Bobby Cappuccio

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#2237 What Shouldn't We Expect - Bobby Cappuccio · The You Project

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Oh, g'day, Tim. It's Bobby and Craig Anthony Harper. No
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: TIFF again, I think, second time in a row, two
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: weeks in a row, two shows in a row. I
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: don't know about you, Bobby, but I'm feeling neglected.
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: I'm starting to notice a pattern of neglect emerging, if
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: we're going to be honest.
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: And being as you and I are both wildly insecure
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: and only children, I don't know that this is going
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: to be something that sits with us well over the
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: long term. It might be therapy for both of us.
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: I just simply miss TIFF. That's all it is.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: Or maybe deep insecurity and a need to be loved.
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: I don't know. Maybe that has something to do with
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: it as well.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: I've got a question for you. Talking about setting goals, motivation,
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: talking about achieving stuff, what do you think is more
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: powerful as a driver of behavior or a kicker in
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: the bum of action taking? Do you think moving away
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: from something you don't want or moving towards something you
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: do want is as they can both be, you know,
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: like I realized when I was young, I didn't want
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: a traditional job, as in I didn't want to clock
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: in every day and have a boss and go to
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: the same place every day and do the same or
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: version of the same job. It's not good or bad.
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: Generally speaking, just wasn't good for me. So one of
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: my key drivers was I don't want to do this
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: and I don't want to be in this kind of environment.
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: So originally it was almost like a negative motivator. What
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: about you? Do you think, well, for yourself, one or
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: the other or both?
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: Okay, I'll answer this two ways. For myself and then
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: for human beings in general. For me, it was.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: Just for humanity? If I can speak on behalf of humanity.
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: Just based on everything I've ever read and, you know,
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: all the research that I've come across, I have an
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: idea about what the and the answer is, it's complicated.
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: And of course, it's just me and you. So I
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: could speak on behalf of humanity because humanity is not
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: going to object. And if humanity does object, it's just
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: the two of us. I'm not going to know about
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: it unless, of course, you get hate mail. Who is
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: this guy? I think he is speaking on behalf of humanity.
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: Just do it to you. Yeah, well, my my inbox
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: is filled with hate mail, so I'm not going to
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: be able to get to that anytime soon. I think
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: for me, because I never really thought much of my
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: potential or ability in any way, shape or form. For me,
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: I was going to do public service, work in the
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: public sector in law enforcement, which is great because you
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: can make an outstanding contribution there. I wanted to do
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: it for what I, in retrospect, think for the right reasons.
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: But then when I realized, you know, I do have
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: certain possibilities and I can be good at something, not
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: just be good at a job, be good at a
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: craft and a skill. it ignited this fire in me.
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: So it was very much a toward motivation. I think
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: in general, when you're not in the environment or when
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: there's not a sense of clarity around something that you
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: want that becomes a powerful desire, I feel like in general,
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: loss aversion is more powerful because I mean, let's be honest.
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: if you take a look at all of human history,
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: how many people within the tribe were super achievers? Probably
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: had a few, right?
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: They're much better on a hunt than everybody else. But
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: if you were somewhere in the middle, you did your job,
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: you did your job. Well, you contributed. That's great. But
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: what's more important to your survival obsessing on, on hunting
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: the fattest elk or obtaining the sweetest berries or avoiding danger,
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: avoiding being eaten or falling off a cliff or, I
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: think in terms of propagation of the species, loss aversion
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: was probably a little bit more powerful. But I think
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: like anything, it's a combination of both. And there are
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: so many variables. So there's many questions behind that question.
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I guess they can also be the same
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: thing at the same time, like hunting the best elk
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: or securing the best elk and getting the best berries
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: is the same as avoiding starvation. So gaining something is
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: avoiding something else. So maybe it's a somewhat redundant question.
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: But for me, I don't know, I think also I
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: would observe, oh, gee, am I going to get in trouble?
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to get in trouble.
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: Probably.
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: Well, no, this is just... I used to, when I
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: was younger, I would watch some people. And when I
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: was younger, I mean in my teenage years, I would
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: watch some people in relationships.
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: Like through their window?
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: Mainly through their window. I used to get mud in
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: my feet and seeds in my jeans. But anyway.
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: That's a felony. No, Bobby.
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: Not through anyone's window. But I remember watching people who
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: were in, and I remember being, I was in early
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: high school. So I don't know, 14. And just thinking, oh,
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: those people are together and they fucking argue all the time.
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: They don't even seem to like each other. Like I
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: didn't understand any of the sociology or the dynamics of
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: relationships or, but just as a kid who is curious,
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: I'm like, why are they even together? I would not
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: want to be in that. I would not want to
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: be in a version of that. So I kind of,
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: part of my, like part of my driving drive force
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: when it came when I was young to even friendships
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: not just you know romance but friendships was like I
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: don't want to be in a relationship with people where
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: it's it's not actually good you know so this this
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: these examples that I regularly saw of people in this
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: thing when they they seem to almost hate each other
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: I'm like god I do not want a version of
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: that let me avoid that I'd rather be alone than
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: be in that.
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: Well, in Brooklyn, that's a sign of two people who
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: are deeply in love when you see that dynamic. It's
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: like they're going to be around. They're going to be
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: like two old people shuffling around together. They're in it
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: for the long haul, those two. It's when you start
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: being polite to one another and be really nice. It's like, yeah,
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: the relationship's completely falling apart. Well, yeah.
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: How much of... for you being able to go, all right,
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: this is where I am. So we're talking about maybe
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: setting goals now or creating change, same thing. If we
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: put the different things that come up around this, so
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: we talk about goals, we talk about structure, we talk
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: about accountability, we talk about process, talk about discipline. talk
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: about vision, talk about motivation, talk about inspiration. And usually
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: when we're talking about the stuff that you and I do,
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: maybe a little bit less you because you're more in
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: the corporate space full-time-ish, whereas I kind of just stick
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: my toe in and out of that pool. But when
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: we look at all of those variables, what's near the
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: top of the list in terms of what is actually
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: going to help someone change the most and create sustained change.
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: Nobody who loses weight wants to regain it. That's not
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: their plan. Nobody says, you know what, I want to
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: get real fit, then I want to get unfit, or
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: I want a great job, and then I want a
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: shit job. Most people want to create permanent change. And
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: we talk about things like discipline, self-control, willpower, all the stuff.
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: What are the things that really move the needle most
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: over the long term? Not between now and Christmas, but
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: the next five years?
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: I feel like really knowing why you want to do that.
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: Because in my mind, from what I've observed, a lot
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: of the things that gets in the way is not that, no, okay.
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: So I have to tell you about my client, Tony.
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: Have I ever told you this story?
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: Is it Tony from Brooklyn? Hey, Tony, how you doing? Tony,
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: is it Tony Two Shoes? Tony Two Shoes?
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: No, it's not Tony Two Shoes. That's a completely different Tony. Right.
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: Go on. Tell me about Tony.
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: So, basically... Tony was really inconsistent. Lovely guy. Is this
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: a real person or is this one of your stories?
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: He is a real person. I'm not going to mention
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: his name. I'm not going to mention what business he
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: was in. I mean, I mentioned his first name, but
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: how many Tonys are there? But really lovely guy. And
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: his business was one of the most successful on the
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: East Coast of the United States of his kind. And
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: Tony came from nothing. Came up. hard like didn't have
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: a lot then he had a lot tony was pretty
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: inconsistent and to how old was i like let's say
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: roughly around 20 to a 20 year old bobby capuccio
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: this is really irritating because you come in and you
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: complain you complain about how you feel you complain about
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: your energy levels you complain about your weight here we
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: are engaging in a structured routine to alleviate some of
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: those issues and you're canceling, you're rocking up late. And
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: it's like, oh man, there's, there's what you say and
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: there's what you do. And one day Tony comes in
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: late and throughout the whole session, I'm, I'm, I'm kind of,
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: I'm kind of, I'm kind of uneasy because I don't
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: want to have this conversation with him. Then it's five
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: minutes before he's going to leave. I just tell them,
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: you know, basically, you're going to have to really re-examine
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: your goals. You're going to have to re-examine your commitments
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: because those two things aren't aligned. And you're a bit non-committal,
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: to be honest. and you don't you don't seem to
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: show up for me or for yourself and tell you
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: the truth for somebody who says that they want what
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: they want you're a bit lazy and tony just looks
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: at me i just just just he's just like digesting
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: that and he says you work pretty hard yeah You know,
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: I said, yeah, I work pretty hard. And he goes,
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: what time you get up in the morning to come
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: in here? Right. I'm like, I'm here at 5 a.m.
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: He goes, when are you going to leave? So I'm
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: going to leave in the afternoon. I'm going to go home, sleep.
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: Then I'm going to come back. I'll be here at
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: 10 o'clock at night. Because those are some pretty long hours.
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: What do you work like? Like six days a week, seven, five.
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: I was like about six. Said, you know, with all
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: the hard work you're going to put in this entire year.
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: by the it's midweek right now, by the end of
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: this week, I'm going to make more money this week
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: to take home, not make keep right. Then you're going
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: to make this entire year. Does that sound like someone
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: who's lazy and non-committed? Okay. You have my attention. And
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: then he goes on to say, I'm going to tell
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: you right now, you couldn't live 72 hours in my world.
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: So there's, there's, There's always going to be conflicts. Tony's
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: problem wasn't laziness or lack of commitment. My problem was
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: lack of skill and lack of understanding outside of my
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: own perception. But you got to know what it is
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: you want and why. And you got to know what
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: that looks like when you have it. and what's going
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: to be required to get there. And what's really important,
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: I think people put a lot of emphasis on outcome goals.
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: Like I'm going to lose 10 pounds, right? I'm going
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: to start a business. I'm going to be here. But
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: we put too little emphasis on behavior goals because I
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: feel like the greatest key to behavior change is engaging
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: in behavior change. Not perfectly, not without error, not without
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: slip ups, not without grace, but engaging in behavior change.
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: because that will start to reshape your identity and it'll,
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: it'll teach, it'll teach you a lot about yourself and
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: the process along the way.
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: It's a little bit groundhog day, not this chat, but this,
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: this in general, this conversation, because like you said, which
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: I agree with, you know, like the why is all important. Like,
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: like what, what do you want? Why do you want it? Right.
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: And then there's another W. which is willingness to do
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: the work. Like people can get clear on what they
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: want and why they want it. But as you said,
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think this is as a coach or whatever,
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: whatever you and I are, educators, coaches, two blokes trying
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: to help people explore their potential and stuff. My biggest
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: challenge is not answering questions, although I don't always get
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: it right, of course. It's not being present for people.
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: It's not being supportive. It's not being encouraging. I've just
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: taken on a bunch of new coaching clients one-on-one and
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: I've got people all over Australia and a couple overseas.
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: And we're doing all these great conversations and we're covering
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: good stuff. But at the end of the day, it's
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: still like, what is that person going to do when
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: they get off the Zoom call? Like, what are they
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: going to do? Like what action will they take? What
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: change will they make? What thing will they acknowledge? And
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: not only what will they do, but what will they
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: keep doing far beyond the Craig Harper coaching experience? Because
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: not one person wants short-term change. They all want long-term change.
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: But nonetheless, most of us, we give up within a
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: short period or for whatever reason, we fail to keep
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: the pedal rolling. to the floor, our foot on the
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: gas or whatever metaphor you want to use. Like it
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: is the key to your action outlasting your motivation is it?
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: I don't think it's discipline or willpower or self-control because
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: I don't think those things are permanent either. But for me,
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: I think it's about can I turn this sometimes behavior,
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: this thing that I do when I'm sometimes in the
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: zone into Can I find a way to turn this
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: into a hardwired habit? And I know this is not
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: new for this podcast, but now that it's become hardwired,
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: it's part of my normal operating system or it's genuinely
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: a non-negotiable. Now I don't have to get inspired to
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: stay the course.
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: You know, I want to examine the word motivation. Because
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: I feel like a lot of times when we say motivation,
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: we're talking about a feeling. We're talking about, I wake
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: up in the morning and I'm excited to do something.
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: I'm really motivated to go for a run. I call
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: that excitement. When I like to look at motivation through
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: the lens of self-determination. where it is a reason for
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: doing something or behaving in some way. That could be
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: a social reason. It could be like, what are you
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: going to do after you get off the Zoom call?
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: I'm going to go for a wee.
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: Why?
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: Because there's some biological pressure telling me I should probably
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: do that. You know, it could be some aspiration I have,
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: but to break it down simplistically, it's a reason for
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: doing something or behaving in some way. And if you
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: don't have a reason that's deeply rooted and integrated into
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: your value system, maybe what I want to do is
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: I want to do something because. Other people think I
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: should do it. Or, you know, I listen to a podcast,
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: not this one, because we give great advice here. But
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: I listen to a podcast. I say, you should want
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: this thing and you should live in this way. But
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: it's not really intrinsically important to me. So I go
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: pursuing somebody else's blueprint for my life. things get hard
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: and surprise, surprise. I don't want to put in the
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: effort because I'm not seeing an outcome show up where
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: I think that that's a lot different than having something.
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: If it's not intrinsic, at least it's integrated to where
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: I might not enjoy doing this, but it's integrated within
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: my value structure. So I'm likely to do it for
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: a lot longer. Um, and, and, and sometimes there's, there's
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: this thing about not knowing exactly what you want. Sometimes
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: it's the opposite. Heidi Grant Halverson is a goal setting researcher.
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: Like what helps people succeed in goal setting? And one
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: of the things that helps people succeed in goal setting,
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: you know, the whole smart thing, specific, measurable, attainable, relevant,
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: time bound. And, you know, we beat that into people's heads.
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: Sometimes take that S and throw it away, right? Explore.
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: Although That's a horrible acronym.
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: Ex-mart.
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's horrible. But just like I have conversations with
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: Amy and Amy wanted to get into exercise and she
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: loved yoga and she got very ill for a while
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: and she stopped doing her yoga and. She wanted to
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: start getting into something else. And for her, what worked
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: was not really knowing what she wanted and not committing
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: to any plan. Like, do you want to do resistance training?
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: You know what? Go try resistance training. If you don't
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: like it, don't stick with it. Go try something else.
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: And if you don't like that, try something else. Because
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: you know what happens when you start exploring and experimenting? One,
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: you kind of mitigate the internal dialogue that gets you
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: stuck whenever things don't go the way you expect them to.
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: And you also find out what works for you. So
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: now she straps on a weight vest and she goes
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: on these epic hikes in the morning because we live
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: like right, right at the foothill of a mountain. And
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: she just goes on these epic trails. I mean, she
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: took me for a car ride on her walking route
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: and I got exhausted just sitting there looking out the window.
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: So she's getting quite fit now. doing this because if
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: she would have said, well, I'm going to join a gym,
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: and then she went there and she hated it, she
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: would have just stopped. So sometimes you don't need a plan.
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: Sometimes you eventually need to create one, but explore a
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: little bit, and that's counterintuitive. Oh, what's his name? Tim Mitchin?
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: He was giving a speech to the graduating class of... Yeah, Tim...
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: Tim Minchin.
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: Minchin. M-I-N-C-H-I-N. The Australian redhead dude.
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and he was like, his first point was you
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: don't need a dream. Like, you don't need a dream.
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: Sometimes you don't need to have things figured out. I
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: think you know what's important to you. You know what
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: you value. But how that's going to show up, sometimes
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: being willing to take action in the midst of ambiguity,
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: just out of curiosity, seems to work. And then when
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: things don't go... Right. It's not like I jump into
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: this explanatory style of, ah, I always do this. I
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: never follow through. First of all, that's bullshit.
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: That's like selective memory, too. That's a very dangerous dialogue
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: for consistency and adherence. Just find out like what happened?
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: What did I learn? You know, what did I learn
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: about myself? If I could go back and do that,
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: would I have done it again? Why or why not?
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: What did I do well? What would I have done differently?
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: And just how can I apply that to the very
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: next step?
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: I agree.
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: I mean, we almost came full circle. there where we're
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: talking about what don't we want you know and it's
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: like sometimes like I'm talking to someone about their career
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: um and they're talking about their job and they're like
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: I don't know what I want to do but I
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: don't want to do this And then I would run
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: through a whole lot of jobs or scenarios or industries
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: or professions or even things like, let's really simplify it.
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: Do you want to work indoors or outdoors? And they go,
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: outdoors would be good. I haven't even thought of outdoors.
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: I'm like, well, there's a lot of careers outdoors, you know.
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: And so sometimes it's just it's moving closer. Like you
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: don't and I think that's the other thing I've found
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: or has been underlined or reinforced for me recently where
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: I'm just happy and happen to be in the mix
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: of a whole bunch of four week intakes of different individuals.
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: And so I've got these eight sessions and it's, you know,
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: it's four weeks, it's eight sessions. It's pretty intensive. You know,
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: there's daily contact. They're messaging me every day. At the
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: end of the day, they're reporting this accountability. We're talking
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: twice a week. It's pretty full on, but I also
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: have to say to them, Hey bro, We don't need
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: to figure out the rest of your life by next Wednesday.
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: It's okay. Also, we're talking about 30 years of stuff.
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: We're dealing with emotional, psychological, sociological, fucking personal, romantic, sexual, financial.
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: We're opening the door. We're not going to reinvent you
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: by Tuesday. It's okay. We're just trying to move in
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: a positive direction, build some momentum, find some more clarity,
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: and you'll do things that you go, no, this is
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: not for me. And you'll do things that don't work
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: and you'll do things that you didn't think would work
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: but will work. Like there is no hurry. Like there's
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: no urgency about figuring out your life purpose in the
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: next seven days. Do you know what I mean? I
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: feel like people feel dumb because they don't know what
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: I literally spoke with somebody yesterday and I'm not fibbing.
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: Sometimes it sounds convenient, but this person's life, they've had
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: a lot of challenges, but where they are now at
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: the age they are, it's not where they thought or
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: hoped it would be. And they basically said, I feel
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: like I've wasted my life. And it made me really sad,
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: you know? And I went, well, firstly, your life is
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: not even nearly done. Like you haven't, like you're just,
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: you're just, you're taking another step on the journey, you know,
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: and that kind of, that kind of thinking, which is more,
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: that's like your potential is not the problem. You're thinking
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: about your potential or your possibilities, you know, and sometimes
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: our mind is our superpower. And sometimes it's like the barrier.
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: Expectations are tricky, right? Cause I think a lot of
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: times it's, it's our expectation. We haven't, we do something
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: and there's something there. There's a reward, there's significance, but
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: we don't appreciate it because of our expectations. So I'm
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: guilty of this right around the first couple of years, um,
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: of the pandemic. I was struggling a lot. Like a
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: lot of people was and, or were dumb, um.
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: Can I interrupt for one sec? Are you talking about
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: expectations of others or what we expect of ourselves?
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: What we expect of just outcomes of ourselves. So 2022,
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: in terms of speaking, I had a phenomenal year, Craig.
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: I spoke to... like a lot of people. And just,
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: I learned a lot. I developed a lot of stuff.
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: It was a productive year where I feel like I
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: connected and contributed. I wasn't there for any of it.
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: I missed it. 2022, I felt like a complete failure
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: because we were still under the COVID restrictions and it
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: wasn't happening in the way that I thought it should happen. Right. Wait,
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: that might be 2022 or it might be 2020. No,
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: maybe 2021. I don't know. But one of those years,
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: it was like a blur. I just remember looking back. Yeah,
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: it probably was 2021, actually, because nobody was going anywhere.
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: I wasn't going anywhere. No one was going anywhere. And
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: I remember when it opened up. Yeah, it was 2021.
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: When it opened up and I got on a plane,
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: I was back on stages, I thought, I spoke, I
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: had such a wider audience. I feel like I made
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: such deep connections last year versus this year, but this
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: feels like how I expect it to happen. And I
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: think a lot of times we have these expectations and
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: we fall short of them constantly, not because we're not
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: doing enough or achieving enough. It's almost like, I think
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: this is going to be this, but it ends up
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: being this. And over a while we get lower and
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: lower dopamine hits from that same thing. And so expectations
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: becomes a really interesting thing where you have to... Have
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: you ever read Meditations by Marcus Aurelius?
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, a long time ago, but I have it on
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: my shelf. Yep.
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: And I was thinking about this today. I was actually
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: writing about this in my little iPad.
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: And.
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: He talks about greatness. And that's always been something that
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: I struggle with because there's all this self-help conversation about
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: you want to achieve greatness. You want to elevate yourself
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: to greatness. You want to live a life of greatness.
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: I'm like, what are we even talking about here? When
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: you say greatness, what does that look like? Because the
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: probability would dictate most of us are not going to
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: win an Olympic gold medal. We're not going to found
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: the next multi-billion dollar corporation. We're not going to invent
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: the thing that cures cancer. So where does that leave
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: the rest of us? And for Marcus Aurelius, what he
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: started to reason was, and I think this is just brilliant.
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: I mean, I was emperor of Rome. Greatness is seeking
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: to do the highest good in what circumstances you happen
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: to find yourself in and that varies greatly from person
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: to person but with the same individual that varies sometimes
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: from day to day and I think it's that what's
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: the highest good I can do so I can walk
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: into a meeting and this meeting is not going to
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: land me the CEO position but I can hold space
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: for someone so their voice can be heard I can
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: be that person I can add value and I think
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: if we structure our expectations around that interpretation of greatness,
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: it really reframes what we do and why it acts.
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: And that's very much a bigger than me thing, isn't it?
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: Like what is the greatest good I can do today?
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: It's not like for me. What's the best thing I
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: can do for me? Which I think sometimes that's a
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: good question to ask, but I also think what is the–
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: What is the greater good that I can do today
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: or in this situation or this? Yeah, I know that
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: sounds very warm and fuzzy, but that I don't know
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: for our listeners.
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: It's not warm and fuzzy because what we hear all
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: the time is I'll stop being kind to people when
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: they're kind to me. I'll start being kind to people
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: when my boss gives me permission to do so. I'll
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: start being kind when somebody, the hard thing to do is,
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: is being in a shit situation, having a shitty day,
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: and still choosing to be kind to someone. And if
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: it wasn't something we were engineered to do, it wouldn't
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: elevate our well-being. And it does. I mean, there's so
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: much research about kindness and pro-social behavior that and how
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: contagious it is. It doesn't just impact the person receiving.
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: As everybody listening to this knows, because everybody's committed an
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: act of kindness, it benefits the well-being and the mental
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: state of the giver. And it also has a ripple effect.
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: I feel like we've never lived in a time where
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: publicly there's been less kindness. I feel like we live
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: in the nastiest, unkindest, fucking hateful, hurtful landscape probably because
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: of social media. And I know that's not everybody. I
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: know that's not. And I understand that.
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: Let's talk about this.
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: Anyway, I want to come back to something more positive.
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: All right. I just want to jump back to expectations, right?
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: I don't want to go down that dark fucking rabbit
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: hole of social media bullshit.
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: I was so ready to do it.
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: No, fuck it. I want to talk about expectations again.
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: I want to go back there because when I say
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: to people, and this is no revelation and this is
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: not debatable, this is pretty rock solid, like the best
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour. Yeah. So if
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: Bobby treated you like a prick the last 200 times
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: you met, then fair chance at meeting number 201, he
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: will do the same. If he was amazing and beautiful
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: and gorgeous, which of course he is the last 200
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: times you'll probably get a version of that I think
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: that sometimes we expect other people to be what we
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: would rather they be like we're hopeful that today's the
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: day where they're going to be kind or nice or
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: thoughtful or considerate to me. I'm just going to stay
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: in this relationship because pretty soon they're just going to, like,
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: it's going to be different, right? I'm not saying get
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: out of a relationship or get in one, right? But that, like,
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: where do those irrational expectations, when someone has been a
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: certain way very typically and very consistently, and yes, it's
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: reasonable to hope they are different and to want them
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: to be different and to And also to believe that
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: one day they could be different. But statistically, it probably
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: won't be today. So I feel like having expectations of
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: anyone other than ourselves is probably fraught with danger. Like
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: expect more of you. Like I can put pressure on
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: myself and expect myself to do better and think better
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: because I'm the captain of the SS Craig. But, and
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: that's not being negative. I just think it's self-protecting. I
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: think it's wise. I think if somebody's been a prick
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: for the last five years, I wouldn't expect them to
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: rock up today and be Mother Teresa.
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: One of my mentors who was training me as a speaker,
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: I was in his network. He had a Amazing network
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: of some brilliant speakers. Susan Sly, who you had on
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: your show, she was in his network as well. And
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: we were in this immersive week-long course somewhere, I think
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: in Northern California. And he said that your life gets
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: a lot easier online. And you take back, I'm paraphrasing,
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: some agency for yourself rather than powerlessness when you start
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: to lower your expectations of others and raise your expectations
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: of yourself. And I did not I did not take
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: that to mean that you do not have a right
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: to expect certain things living in a society from people or,
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: you know, based on the context of a relationship, expect
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: things like you and I are mates. And, you know,
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: I would expect you to not come into my house
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: and kick one of my cats or steal the cash
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: out of my drawer. It's a reasonable expectation. Right. And obviously, obviously,
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: you would never do that. But overall, when you when
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: you don't have this, people should do this. They should
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: behave like this. And if people aren't behaving the way
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: I think they should or the way I want them to. Well,
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: that's going to limit how I show up in the
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: world and how much pride I have about who I'm
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: being now. who I'm becoming and who I most want
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: to ultimately, you know, be in, in the future. So as,
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: as I'm in this constant cycle of change, that's a
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: lot of power to give over to other people. So I, overall,
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: I agree with that.
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: I think, I think, you know, theory of mind, trying
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: to understand how others think and more broadly, just social
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: awareness and intelligence and emotional intelligence and, um, expecting people
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: to be how they've been and expecting to be who
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: they are and the person that you've got to know,
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: which is not a negative. Um, and if something, you know,
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: and that could be positive or negative. So when I
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: talk to you, I expect I'm going to have a
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: good time because we have a good time. I expect
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: I'm going to, I expect you're going to treat me
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: a certain way and be a certain way because you've
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: trained me to expect that over 20 something years of
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: knowing you. Um, But I think we waste a lot
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: of energy on ruminating on how we think other people
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: should be, how they should be, how they should react
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: and respond and live and behave when it's completely out
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: of our sphere of control. It's like, well, what's in
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: my control? Well, nothing that that guy does or says, nothing,
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: or how they are or how they see the world
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: or how they treat others. None of that's in my control.
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: is that a good use of focusing, obsessing, ruminating on that?
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: Is that a good use of me and my energy? Yeah,
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: it's not. Which does not say we shouldn't care or
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: there may be even times, depending on the situation, where
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: perhaps we should speak up, perhaps we should intervene. But
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: I'm just talking day-to-day general kind of humanity where I'm like,
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: this is, that's not my thing to jump into. Like
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: this is, I was even having a chat with a
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: friend of mine this morning, Max. Shout out to Maxie.
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: And when he's very political.
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: I'm not.
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: And I said, mate, honestly, I love you, but can
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: we shut the fucking political conversation down? It's just like
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: if I'm going to spend the next 20 minutes talking
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: about something, I do not want it to be that.
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: I do not want it to. It doesn't make me
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: feel good. We're not moving the needle. I don't enjoy it.
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: I'm not creating any, I would rather talk about something
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: more hopeful and something more positive. And that's just me.
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: So. Oh, I like, I have a lot of opinions
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: on that. I think one of the things I say now,
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: like when people start talking politics, I'm curious if a
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: bill needs to get passed in this country, how does
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: Congress do it? What are those steps? If they don't
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: have an answer, don't talk politics. You're just regurgitating opinions
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: you've been conditioned to have. Like you're not, you're not
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: into politics. And I know that that sounds harsh and
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: it's probably hard to not have an opinion because it's
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: absurd to think that if you're in an environment where
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: something's being repeated over and over and over with intensity,
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: it doesn't impact you at all. And you had said,
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: you know, like there's never been a time where people
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: are so self-interested and cruel. That wasn't your exact words.
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: I don't know if that's true. I'm sure there's a
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: lot of people that got stabbed on the road for
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: no reason whatsoever by a Roman centurion that might disagree,
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: but it certainly does feel that way. And if my
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: cousin did get stabbed due to no fault of his own.
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: That's quite the comparison, the Roman centurion 2,000 years ago.
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: Let me, let me, no, no, no, no, no. Don't, don't.
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: Many men, there's been a lot of people harmed for
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: no good reason by Roman centurions. And, you know, I
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: think we should stop being afraid to talk about it.
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: Somebody needs to say it. Let's get it out there.
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: If it was my cousin, I probably didn't find out
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: about it until days later. And I didn't know about
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: everybody else's cousin in the world that got treated poorly.
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: Maybe not by Roman centurions. And by the way, I'm
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: sure there's a lot of Roman centurions that were just
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: lovely people. Love the cape and the headdress, by the way. Like,
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: like really bold fashion statement. A lot of risk there,
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: but you're rocking it. But you're deaf. You're hearing all
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: of the most debased. views and opinions and stories. I mean,
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: you also hear some great things like you've got Chloe
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: versus history. I keep going on and on about that.
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: Great stuff. It's educational stuff. So, but it's very, very hard.
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: And it seems like that for a lot of people.
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: And I think, A lot of people do get discouraged,
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: or there's this overarching anxiety, frustration, maybe anger. And yeah,
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: show up and be the best version of yourself. That's
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: easy for you to say, but it is a matter
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: of authenticity. To me, my definition of authenticity aligns with
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: Adam Grant, the researcher. It's doing the best you can
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: to bring your highest values into every situation. Are you
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: going to do that perfectly?
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: No.
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: Are you going to like shit the bed on that sometimes? Yeah.
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: But it's that intention to bring that. And I think
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: that gives us a lot of autonomy and living above values.
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I feel like values is, it's something that's spoken
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: about a lot, but it's not, I still think I
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: could be wrong, but my experience anyway is when I
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: talk to people about, you know, you've heard me say this,
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: but like, I'm like, well, your values are your internal
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: sat nav. Like that's your kind of, I have certain values.
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: And when certain situations or opportunities with an asterisk or
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: decisions or whatever arise, quite often the determining factor of
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: what I do next is about my values. You know,
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: it's like, there are certain things I won't sell on
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: this podcast, which I've been, you know, like booze and
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: all of that, nothing wrong with booze. I just won't
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: sell it. Right. So that's a really easy decision there
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: are other you know but um i don't know that
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: too many people sit down and think about like what
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: are the five things that really really really matter to
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: me in terms of you know what i believe what
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: i value morals ethics purpose exists.
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: Ah See, now you're getting into, I think the reason
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: why people do not understand how powerful our values are
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: and how much influence they have over our behavior, whether
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: we know them or not. A lot of times we
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: have no idea. what our values are but we are
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: taught that values and ethics are the same thing and
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: they are not so there is like you know i
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: will not cheat this person. You know, I will not
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: violate confidentiality in a conversation unless me not doing so
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: places this person or someone else in harm's way. That's
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: not values. Those are ethics. Values are this thing makes
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: me feel so absolutely alive that when I engage in it,
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: I disappear. I would engage in this with no external reward.
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: This in and of itself is its own reward. Oh,
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: and by the way, when I express this in the world,
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: I act on it. It shows up as a very
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: unique signature strength that I possess. Those are your values.
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: And it is very hard to act out of alignment
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: with your values for a long time.
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: Like, I just have one question. I think you said
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: when you're living your values or something, it's like you
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: disappear and you're this and you're that. I don't totally
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: understand that. What is that?
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: It is something that makes you feel most alive.
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: Can I not say being healthy? No, hang on. Can
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: I not say health is a value? Can I not
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: say being financially secure is a value? Can I not
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: say being a positive in the lives of others is
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: a value? Are they not all values, things that I value?
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: Well, I'm not contesting that there are values, but I
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: think there's something deeper there, and that is- What is
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: it about health that matters to you? When you have
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: a level of health.
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: It's the not dying part. That's the main one for me,
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: not dying.
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: And if you would do a root cause analysis, like
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: you would go five levels of why deep, and it's like, okay, well,
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: what is it that is so important to you about
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: living that dying is really disturbing? I think, well, for everybody,
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: living probably, or most people... is really a preference over dying.
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: But what is it that you're looking to do with
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: the time that you have? And if you extended it,
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: let's say you extended it 10 more years than you
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: normally would have, what would you do with that time?
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: And when you look at that, there's something that's there. Like, oh,
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: financial security. Maybe it's safety, right? I am most free
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: and I'm most productive when I'm not worrying about me
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: and the safety of my family. So maybe it's peace
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: of mind because that puts me in a state. So
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: I had a great conversation with John Demartini about this
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: when I had him on my show. And he said
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: that he was speaking to someone who he knew and
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: she had rung him up because her son was in
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: his 20s and basically doing nothing with his life. And
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: he was just sitting around and watching all these crime dramas.
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: and these crime shows. And, you know, she said like,
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: she went into his room and she like found all
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: these like crime books and forensic books. And she's like,
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: I think he's got a problem. I think there's something
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: very wrong with this kid, uh, this young man, not
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: even a kid. And after talking to this kid for
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: a while, this guy, um, He found out that he
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: loved crime because he loved solving puzzles. He had a
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: deep curiosity for him. That was how he was able
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: to solve things. And that excited him. But every time
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: he would bring it up, it's like, what are you
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: talking about? That's not like a worthwhile career. It wasn't supported.
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: So he vicariously. engaged in it and was like, wow,
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: this is really important to you. Why don't you do something? Well,
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: he got into criminology and got into forensics and he
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: went to school for that. And he does that now
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: for a living and he absolutely loves it. So what
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: sometimes we look at as you need to get your
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: shit together or God, this person's not doing much is
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: what they're pursuing aligned with what it is that they value.
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: If I could just plug a website, it's VIA, Values
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: in Action, viacharacter.org. It's a brilliant website. You got to
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: go and sign up, like username, password. And there is
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: a free version from the Seligman Institute where you can
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: take this assessment. And all of that's like, you know,
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: a lot of that, no assessment or survey is going
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: to give you a clear indicator of what your values are.
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: But it kind of is a great stepping off point
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: to gain a little bit more clarity. And it'll tell
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: you based on how you respond to this assessment, what
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: your top five highest values are. and those values are
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: aligned with your strengths. I think it's really eye-opening. I've
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: done it a few times and obviously my values have
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: changed a little bit and the order of importance, but
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: the top ones are always there. And I recognize myself.
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: What are your top three without expanding? Just one, two, three.
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: As of now, number one, and number one has never
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: changed for me, is appreciation of beauty and excellence. And
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: that that lands with me when I engage in writing
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: or I'm working with developing somebody else or I'm watching
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: a musician or you know what? I'm watching a talented
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: pizza maker engaged in his work. It lights me up.
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: I live for that. My second highest value is humor.
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: And that makes a lot of sense because it's not
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: just about things being funny. What humor represents to me
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: is extremely important to the core of who I am.
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: And right now, it's also love of learning. But in
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: the past, it's been things like fairness, honesty, kindness. So
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: it's like you'll recognize some of these things and some
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: of these things might surprise you. But I think when
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: you learn what lights you up, like why do you
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: engage in this? Who are you for other people when
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: you're doing this and who are they for you? Like
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: when you're kind, what emotions does that evoke in you?
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: Once you're clear on that, it's a lot easier to go, okay,
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: what are the things in my life that helped me
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: align around these things? rather than, oh, I should do
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: this so I can. It's like, what aligns around the
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: person I want to be and the values that seem
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: to add the most fulfillment to my life?
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: I was about to talk about purpose. I feel like
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: the term purpose gets, I think, mangled and manipulated and
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: used and overused. It's like when people go to me,
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: what's your purpose? I don't I don't know. I don't
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: think I have a single function or purpose. And I
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: think my purpose on Tuesday might not be my purpose
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: on Wednesday, but definitely my values on Tuesday will be
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: my values on Wednesday. You know, I don't know. It's
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: seen as this almost like overarching thing that we need
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: to go discover under some kind of ethereal spiritual rock. Oh,
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: here it is. I found it. It's my purpose. It's
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: over here near the daffodils. behind the hose, you know,
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: here's my life.
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: I'm like, what does that do to people though?
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: I just don't think it works. It's just not bullshit.
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: I struggle with it as well, because I don't know
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: if you've ever had this where someone's talking to you
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: about purpose and it's almost like they're apologetic. Like, I
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: don't know what my purpose is. It's almost borderline shame.
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: Like you should know what your purpose is. It should
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: be grandiose. Here's my definition of purpose. It goes back
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: to values. You know what your values are, right? Like
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: if you've ever picked up a musical instrument and you've
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: played it and be like, oh my God, I feel
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: so connected to something right now. You might have a
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: value around music and being a musician. So here's purpose.
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: When I do this thing, like there are other people
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: around witnessing me play my guitar. A third of them
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: might be like, oh, my God, that's that's unbearable noise.
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: I wish you would stop. Another third of them might
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: be neutral. That's great. Good for you. Another third of them,
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: they might be having a really shitty, tough week and
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: 10 problems that they can't stop thinking about. But when
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: you're playing that guitar, they appreciate that music and they're
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: enjoying it so much that those problems are suspended for
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: that time. Guess what, mate? That's your purpose because you
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: living your values in that moment contributed to somebody else.
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: So meaning multiplied by contribution to me, that's purpose.
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: That's quite the philosophical equation. Let's end it there. Are
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: you back podcasting? Is your show happening? The Self-Help Antidote?
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I just did an episode on kindness, actually.
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: I reckon you need to rename it The Bobby Capuccio Show.
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: I just think you need to do that.
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but I want to name it something real. good
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: though Yeah, you've got a good name.
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: That's it.
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: The Bobby Capuccio Show. But what type of person is
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: going to show up? It's going to be this guy
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: with slicked hair in a track suit. Like, hey, what
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: are you doing? I'm going to go listen to the
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: Bobby Capuccio Show.
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, how are you doing? I'm Bobby.
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: Well, I reckon- He's going to be in the Adidas.
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: He's going to be wearing those trainers.
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: You've probably heard of a guy called Joe Rogan. It
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: worked for him, the Joe Rogan Show. It's done okay, apparently. It's,
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: I mean- Yeah.
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: I've heard of that show.
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: Even better than this. Incredible. Where else can people find you? Yeah.
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: Well, they can find me. They can find me on
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: LinkedIn and the selfhelpantidote.com. I'm there.
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: And you can go back through the catalog.
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: I'm virtually there. What?
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: You can go back through the TYP catalog. There's probably
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: 200 or 300 episodes with him. We'll say goodbye off air.
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: Hopefully Tiff will be with us next week. Tiff, if
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: you're editing this, you were missed. We'll talk soon, mate.
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: See you later. Talk soon. Thanks, everyone.