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Wednesday: Tim Burton and Jenna Ortega get their goth on · The Front

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: From the Australian. This is the weekend edition of The Front.
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: I'm Claire Harvey. Wednesday, the Adams family daughter who first
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: appeared in a New York Or comic strip in nineteen
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  Speaker 1: forty four, is the hottest thing in twenty twenty five.
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  Speaker 1: That's thanks to a Tim Burton directed Netflix hit based
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  Speaker 1: on the character. Jenna or Tager stars as Wednesday and
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  Speaker 1: has introduced a new generation to goth culture with her
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  Speaker 1: black outfits and macabre dark eyes. On today's episode, I'm
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  Speaker 1: joined by entertainment reporter Jordi Gray, who caught up with
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  Speaker 1: Tim Burton, general Or Tager, and show writers Alfred Goff
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  Speaker 1: and Miles Miller on a recent promo tour in Sydney.
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  Speaker 2: There's a lot of things about me you don't know
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  Speaker 2: anything about that. Things you wouldn't understand, Things you shouldn't understand.
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  Speaker 1: American filmmaker Tim Burton made his directorial debut with Peewee's
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  Speaker 1: Big Adventure in nineteen eighty five. Beetlejuice followed in eighty eight,
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  Speaker 1: and Edward Scissahans in nineteen ninety.
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  Speaker 2: Jeorge Jack a Handcheck You Got Their.
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  Speaker 1: Ed, establishing Burton as the patron saint of outcasts around
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  Speaker 1: the world. Although he was born almost fifty years prior
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  Speaker 1: and on the other side of the country to Tim Burton,
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  Speaker 1: there's plenty of overlap between Adam's family creator Charles Adams,
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  Speaker 1: and Tim Burton. One of Adam's first jobs was cleaning
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  Speaker 1: up corpse pictures. It didn't last, as apparently he liked
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  Speaker 1: things a little bloodier. One of Burton's first jobs was
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  Speaker 1: as a Disney animator, working on The Fox and the Hound.
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  Speaker 1: He got the boot from that after he made all
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  Speaker 1: the animals look like roadkill. Beyond liking the grizzly stuff,
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  Speaker 1: both men share an extraordinary ability to create art by
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  Speaker 1: distorting reality and revealing something deeper. So where does that
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  Speaker 1: come from? He's Tim Burton.
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  Speaker 3: I grew up to You're a cemetery, you know, and
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  Speaker 3: I used to play in the cemetery, and so, you know,
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  Speaker 3: even though Burbank in California is very bright and light,
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  Speaker 3: I was always sort of drawn to the darker side
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  Speaker 3: of it.
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  Speaker 4: Why do you think that's such like a rich territory
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  Speaker 4: to mine?
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  Speaker 3: Well, because it comes across as quite normal, right, but
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  Speaker 3: underneath it it's not. You know, there's no such thing
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  Speaker 3: as normal, you know what I mean. It's like, you know,
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  Speaker 3: that's why I like the Adams Family. You know, I
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  Speaker 3: don't know the Adams Family is weird. It's like I
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  Speaker 3: don't know one family that isn't weird, So you know,
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  Speaker 3: for me, it was all just kind of normal sort
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  Speaker 3: of life and behavior.
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  Speaker 1: Jordy, we're talking about the Adams Family. This is a
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  Speaker 1: show I remember from being on TV on repeats when
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  Speaker 1: I was a kid. It originated as a comic strip
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  Speaker 1: in the nineteen thirties. Why are we still talking about
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  Speaker 1: the Adams Family into.
• 3:01
  Speaker 4: Well, I think it works so well as IP because
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  Speaker 4: we didn't know anything about the Adams family from the cartoons,
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  Speaker 4: Like they didn't even have names, there was barely any
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  Speaker 4: text to them. So it's just like, he's a really cool,
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  Speaker 4: spooky looking family that are being really pesky in like
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  Speaker 4: nineteen thirty suburban America, and it's just such a good gag.
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  Speaker 4: And to see that in the nineties and the now
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  Speaker 4: is a pleasure.
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  Speaker 1: It's not a similar, isn't it from how Superman and
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  Speaker 1: Batman have their origins in that comic streep pre World
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  Speaker 1: War two America.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's interesting because the two creators of Wednesday, Alfred
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  Speaker 4: go and Miles Miller. They did Smallville, which was the
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  Speaker 4: Superman spin off in the early two thousands.
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  Speaker 5: Because I am your father and I just told you
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  Speaker 5: to get in the truck.
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  Speaker 2: You know, my father, you never work.
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  Speaker 4: They're really good at taking that classic illustrated IP and
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  Speaker 4: tapping into what teenagers want to see, which is funny
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  Speaker 4: because in speaking to them, they're like two middle aged dudes.
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  Speaker 4: But yeah, they have a real knack for that. And Wednesday,
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  Speaker 4: I think, is just such a unique character. And I
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  Speaker 4: was speaking to a lot of teen fans around the
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  Speaker 4: release of this season and they all said the same thing.
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  Speaker 4: They which is so appreciative of this character that's a
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  Speaker 4: bit of an outcast and has no interest in fitting in.
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  Speaker 4: That's nice to hear when you're a teenager like you
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  Speaker 4: can willingly be a bit of a weirdo.
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  Speaker 1: We see a lot of outcasts in cinema and film,
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  Speaker 1: don't we, But often they're aware that they're outcasts and
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  Speaker 1: they desperately want to be included.
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  Speaker 4: Yes, and she absolutely doesn't care about that at all.
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  Speaker 4: She doesn't want to be enormy, as they call it
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  Speaker 4: in the show.
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  Speaker 1: I've read a few devastating reviews of this m Is
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  Speaker 1: there a certain type of person who doesn't get that
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  Speaker 1: this is a bit supposed to be funny?
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  Speaker 4: Probably like forty year old reviewers. I think this is
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  Speaker 4: a show for teenage girls. So every time I read
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  Speaker 4: a scathing review from like ed wat's his face or
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  Speaker 4: you know, Timothy blah blah, I'm like, well, it's not
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  Speaker 4: for you. It's for teenage girls, so that the scathing
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  Speaker 4: wit isn't up to your standards. But you know, for
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  Speaker 4: a teenager, jokes about Edgar Allan Poe pretty radical.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, the original TV series was funny, was supposed to
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  Speaker 1: be a comedy.
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  Speaker 4: Well it was a Comedy's it come right? Yeah? Yeah?
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  Speaker 1: Is it still funny? And is this iteration meant to
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  Speaker 1: be funny? It's not like funny ha ha. The humor
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  Speaker 1: of the Adam's.
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  Speaker 4: Fanly Movie and Wednesday is the same because there's a
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  Speaker 4: lot of visual gags, them removing stop signs to cause
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  Speaker 4: fatal car collisions and just you know, grim mecha stuff
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  Speaker 4: that is a bit naughty but quite funny. Rovol and
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  Speaker 4: general Teger's line delivery is so flat and monotonous that
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  Speaker 4: you can't help but last because of the crazy violent thing.
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  Speaker 4: She's saying that boy's family was going to file attempted
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  Speaker 4: murder charges.
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  Speaker 6: How would that have looked on your record?
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  Speaker 5: Terrible?
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  Speaker 6: Everyone would know I fail to get the job done.
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  Speaker 4: I actually asked the writers how they got into the
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  Speaker 4: mind of a sixteen year old girl, and their answer
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  Speaker 4: was very interesting.
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  Speaker 7: It's a very interesting question in terms of why we
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  Speaker 7: attract to tell youthful stories considering what we're no longer youthful.
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  Speaker 6: We're probviously incredibly immature.
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  Speaker 7: Yeah, but it's I think maybe because we have two
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  Speaker 7: daughters each, and I think it's just such a formative time.
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  Speaker 7: You know, Clark Kent in Small Bille was very much,
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  Speaker 7: you know, a team in a very interesting and unique situation,
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  Speaker 7: and then Wednesday is also a very unique teen and
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  Speaker 7: I think it's just that's the time in life when
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  Speaker 7: things really like feel out of control and that character
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  Speaker 7: that you know, how they end up are sort of forming.
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  Speaker 7: So I think that's for us. Was like, it's just
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  Speaker 7: such an interesting time to write about so much is
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  Speaker 7: it's so furtive and full of possibility as writers, So
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  Speaker 7: I think that's something we love to write about.
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  Speaker 4: That's so interesting that you both have daughters. Were you
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  Speaker 4: kind of thinking about making a show that they would like? Yeah?
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  Speaker 7: And I think it's also just been very aware of
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  Speaker 7: how few interesting and complex female protagonists there are. Most
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  Speaker 7: ting girl for characters are either like the ugly, dark
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  Speaker 7: clean who becomes a swan is usually involved in some
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  Speaker 7: sort of teen love triangle. There's a sort of generic
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  Speaker 7: and cliche, and Wednesday is the opposite of that. So
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  Speaker 7: I think it's something that's very refreshing in that realm
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  Speaker 7: of teen genre storytelling.
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  Speaker 1: Did you ask Tim Burton about that as well, about
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  Speaker 1: how he identifies with Wednesday.
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  Speaker 4: I didn't have to ask him. He just told me
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  Speaker 4: he at sixty six years old, still feels completely alienated
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  Speaker 4: from everyone else. It's super admirable that he's had this
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  Speaker 4: massive career hit hit after hit, and he seems just
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  Speaker 4: so afraid of people.
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  Speaker 3: Once you feel that way, you always kind of feel
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  Speaker 3: that way. You never it never leaves you. Yeah, I
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  Speaker 3: expect that feeling will last till the end of days.
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  Speaker 3: For me.
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  Speaker 1: It also speaks to how terrifying high school is, doesn't it?
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  Speaker 1: The fact that these guys in their adulthood are still
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  Speaker 1: able to cast themselves back into how awful it is
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  Speaker 1: to be at school.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely, I mean I think that's probably a chip
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  Speaker 4: on your shoulder that you don't get rid of. I mean,
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  Speaker 4: I don't know. I feel like most of your personality
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  Speaker 4: is shaped when you are a teenager. It's not like
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  Speaker 4: you're going to be like a weirdo outcast that hangs
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  Speaker 4: out in cemeteries and then suddenly be like a super
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  Speaker 4: normal adult. You're going to carry that with you until
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  Speaker 4: your end days.
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: Lead actress General Tager took Cello lessons before production started
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  Speaker 1: on Wednesday and learned German CANi.
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  Speaker 5: Sandi Artichus Pilgrimage.
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  Speaker 1: But in addition to the practical prep, it was the
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  Speaker 1: material on Ortega's mood board, a visual collection designed to
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  Speaker 1: inspire and contextualize a character that intrigued Jordi.
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  Speaker 5: I find inspiration or references everywhere, really Mahler and Shostakovich
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  Speaker 5: is one of the more Gothic composers, so he's big
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  Speaker 5: on my board. There's a lot of films that Tim
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  Speaker 5: and I have talked about, like Ddam Knight and obviously
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  Speaker 5: a Cabinet of Doctor Caligari, And you know, when we
• 9:53
  Speaker 5: set up shots and frames on set, it's based off
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  Speaker 5: of that. We we do the Mary Shelley references, and
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  Speaker 5: we read the books. I have these vintage books of
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  Speaker 5: like the first edition of Charles Adams's cartoon strips and yeah,
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  Speaker 5: and then also just like books, he had weird oddities
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  Speaker 5: and curiosities, and I've gone to set and like we've
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  Speaker 5: had props made based off of, you know, things that
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  Speaker 5: he was interested in when he was first coming up
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  Speaker 5: as an artist. And you know, I find inspiration everywhere,
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  Speaker 5: but with someone like Wednesday, And because there's so much
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  Speaker 5: history there and we have so much to go off of,
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  Speaker 5: it's nice to just continue pulling back the layers and
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  Speaker 5: getting deeper into those pre existing bits.
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  Speaker 3: Coming up.
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  Speaker 1: We look at the dance scene that helped Wednesday go viral.
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  Speaker 6: And then the sun goes down and then little movie
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  Speaker 6: comes out.
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  Speaker 1: So tell me about this song and the scene. What
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  Speaker 1: does she do in this dance that made the show
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  Speaker 1: go viral?
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  Speaker 4: She basically just dances like a goth. But I don't
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  Speaker 4: think most people know what goths dance like. I personally
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  Speaker 4: spend a lot of time in the company of goths,
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  Speaker 4: but that is like quite a faithful goth dance. But
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  Speaker 4: I guess if you're a sixteen year old or fourteen
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  Speaker 4: year old watching Wednesday on Netflix, you've never seen anything
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  Speaker 4: quite like it, and it inspired kids to take to TikTok.
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  Speaker 4: To replicate the dance in the show, they use a
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  Speaker 4: song Google Muck by The Cramps, which just went bananas
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  Speaker 4: on streaming after quite like we saw with Kate Bush
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  Speaker 4: and Stranger Things. But the TikTok trend was to Lady
• 11:47
  Speaker 4: Gagar's Bloody Mary. It's just a history.
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: The Lady Gaga's Bloody Mary represents the millennials what the
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  Speaker 1: Cramps horror punk rip entered to gen X's in nineteen
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  Speaker 1: eighty one. Bloody Mary was sped up by TikTok users,
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  Speaker 1: hence the chip monkey sounding vocal to match the original
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  Speaker 1: dance sequence set to Google mark and the trend went bananas.
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  Speaker 4: I think it was like two million videos were made
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  Speaker 4: doing this trend, and Leady Gaga got involved, Madonna got involved,
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  Speaker 4: and now Letty Gaga is going to be in season two.
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: Netflix loves a big drop. They released season one in
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: one go, but for season two, the decision was made
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: to release the series in two parts, and this week's
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  Speaker 1: season two is premiering.
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  Speaker 4: Why did they do that keeping the subscribers for months.
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: Yes, so you subscription, your trial subscription lapses after a month. Yep,
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: they don't want you to churn.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah. I think that's Space clears, the way that HBO
• 12:53
  Speaker 4: drip feeds the White Lotus. It's all subscriptions. So you're
• 12:57
  Speaker 4: saying this is a business, thinking Netflix might not be
• 13:01
  Speaker 4: in it for the art. Nam kidding, kidding, Love you Netflix.
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: Jordy Gray is the entertainment reporter and you can read
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  Speaker 1: her cover story of Wednesday in this weekend's edition of Review,
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  Speaker 1: available in The Australian or at the Australian dot com
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: dot you. This episode of the Front was hosted by
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: me Claire Harvey and produced by Jasper League, who edited
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  Speaker 1: the episode and also wrote our theme. Thanks for joining
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: us on the Front this week. Our team includes Kristin
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: Amiot Leat Sammaglue, Tiffany Dimak, Joshua Burton and Stephanie Coombs.