Latest / The Chuck ToddCast / Full Episode - Are We About To Go To War With Iran? + Trump MUST Be Impeached A Third Time w/ George Conway

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Full Episode - Are We About To Go To War With Iran? + Trump MUST Be Impeached A Third Time w/ George Conway · The Chuck ToddCast

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  Speaker 1: Hello there, Welcome to the Thursday edition of the Chuck Podcast.
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: I'll give you a quick rundown of where we're going first.
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: I've got a few stories that I feel like me,
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: some framing, reframing, a few ways that I'm thinking about
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: him that I think you ought to be thinking about him.
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: When it comes to are we about to go to
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: war with Iran? All things Texas, Senate, we are inside
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: of two weeks. This is There are a lot of
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: moving parts here. I also want to spend a few
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: minutes on the h on the back and forth about
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: the FCC equal time and all of that business with Colbert,
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: and then I want to get to two stories that
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: are way under the radar but epitomize I think what's
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: wrong with our politics at the moment. Collectively. One has
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: to do with crypto and a warning from Chuck Schumer
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: to Democratic senators on you know, basically he's basically admitting
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: principles are for sale, and I'll get to where he's
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: going there. It all has to do with fear of
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: crypto money. And then finally, you know what happens when
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: local news dies in darkness. It's a little tribute to
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: the Washington Post and the fact that we have a
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: messed up situation involving a burs sewer pipe where there's
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: a lot of finger pointing, but what we don't have
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: is a reliable news organization to focus and cover this thing.
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: Thank you, Jeff Bezos. My guest today mister George Conway.
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  Speaker 1: You may know him from the resistance wing of first
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: the Republican Party. Now he is a registered Democrat and
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: running as a Democrat for Congress on the island of Manhattan.
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: He is running in the twelfth Congressional district there essentially
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: the Jerry Nadler seat, which is now both the Upper
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: West and the Upper East. It used to be the
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: Upper West side ed Stone Upper East Side had its own,
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: but they reconfigured it Upper West and Upper Easter together.
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: And he's running on a very explicit platform of I'm
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: running to get there and impeach him, and then to
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: essentially once he's once Trump is out of office, codify
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: important aspects of the rule of law, essentially try to
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: jump start Congress to accepting the premise that they are
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: the first article of the US Constitution. Needless to say,
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: do not put down your phone, do not hit pause.
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: The Conway conversation is everything you might expect it to
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: be and more. I might have to put an explicit
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: rating on it. You know, there is one F word
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: that he was more afraid to say than the other
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: F word, and I'll let you decide what that is. Then,
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: of course we'll do a few questions, and I want
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: to get at the issue of unregulated sports gambling in
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: this country and how we're devolving even quicker thanks to
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: an aggressively las a fair effects possib to be federal government.
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: But let me begin with a question frankly, that I
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: woke up to from a variety of just friends. These
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: are not your normal. This wasn't just sort of the
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: cable booker question of the day or the podcast question
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: of the day. Was in response to watching what we've
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: seen overnight, this massive moving of military personnel, artillery, fighter jets,
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: aircraft carriers to the Middle East. Are we about to
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: go to war with Iran? Well, I don't think any
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: of us have an answer to that question, other than
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: I think, to quote Donald Trump, our current president, I
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: guess we have to stay tuned. I think the better
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: way to frame this is that it I expect that
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: we are drifting into something without fully admitting it, which,
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: of course, you know should should be a lot more
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: concerned about unintended consequences here than we are, because we
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: may end up essentially launching some sort of military campaign
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: against Iran without any conversation with Congress. And I actually
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: think Congress would probably give him some authority if he
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: asked for it. Iran is not unpopular in Congress. I
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: think you might even get some bipartisan votes for it.
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  Speaker 1: But the fact that that isn't happening, that there isn't
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  Speaker 1: and this is this is some military adventurism. Perhaps, So
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: let me explain why I think why people are nervous
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: about this, and it feels like it feels like sometime
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: this weekend I may come back on and we may
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: talk about what are the consequences there, because there're Because
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: here's the situation. We have moved so much of our
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: military assets to the Middle East. It doesn't appear we're
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: looking at something that's quick. We're looking at something that
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: could be not so quick. So some of the details here.
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  Speaker 1: We have two carrier strike groups there.
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  Speaker 2: Now.
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  Speaker 1: The USS Abraham Lincoln has been in the Arabian Sea
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: for some time. We've now had the USS Gerald R. Ford,
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: which is the largest worship in the world, been redirected
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: to also join the Lincoln in the region. We've moved
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: over one hundred military aircraft in recent days. Sixteens have
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: thirty five F twenty two's, We've moved tankers, surveillance aircraft. Look,
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  Speaker 1: these are things that you're doing if you're prepared, preparing
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: for sustained operations. Again, this is not a quick strike.
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  Speaker 1: This is not supporting Israel getting rid of Iran's nuclear
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  Speaker 1: weapons or attempting to get rid of their nuclear laboratories
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  Speaker 1: and things like that. So something there seems to be
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: a bigger plane here than you know. I'm like, hey, Congress,
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: are you going to ask for a briefing? Hello, are
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: you going to try to get some information here? Because
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: we're all lacking a lot of information. But it is
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: worth noting that you've had some blind quotes that said, hey,
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: I'd think twice about flying in the region this weekend.
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: I know some people have been warned about that that
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: live in Israel. You know, be careful of your flight
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: plans this weekend. You could see some airspace get shut down.
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: So it's something afoot, and if so, what is it. Meanwhile,
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: Iran has been conducting live fire navy drills. They partially
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: closed the straight o or moves for these exercises, and
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: the Supreme Leader has been threatening American carriers. Now, look,
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: maybe this is all posturing, right, maybe this is gunboat diplomacy,
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: because we do have these indirect talks right now in
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: Geneva on some sort of nuclear deal. The Vice President
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: went out there and publicly claimed that progress incremental, but
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: progress was made, even even though he admitted that Iran
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: has not accepted what the US redlines are in their
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: nuclear program. But you have Iran's foreign minister calling the
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: toxic constructive and that both sides are agreed unquote guiding principles,
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: and apparently we are in a two week This is
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: where it's confusing, because if you just follow the Geneva talks,
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: we're in a two week window for Tyran to offer
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: some detailed proposals, and yet we have moved all of
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: these military assets into the region for something that appears
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: to be more imminent than in the next two weeks. Now,
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: you throw two weeks out there. For those of you
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: Trumpologists out there, two weeks is a is a code
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: word because it's it's a presidential crutch. When Trump says
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: two weeks, you know that it's meaningless, that it's a punt,
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: that it's you know, he wants two weeks before he
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: has to deal with this issue again. That's really what
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: he's saying. The question is whether what do these two
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: weeks mean he is There have been head fakes in
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: the past of no, we're still talking, and then the
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: bombs were dropping, and we know the President enjoys sort
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: of trying to do head fakes because they're so they're
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: more obst sessed about media leaks than they are about
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: what's in the best interest of America's national security. But
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: I digress. So that's the question. Now, if this is
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: what it looks like and what we would say it
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: looks like under a normal administration, then this would we
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: would probably call this coercive diplomacy. Right, move the carrier,
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: squeeze the regimes, see if you can get a deal.
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: And you know, you could argue that Trump they might
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: fear a threat from Trump since Trump has dropped bombs
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: on Iran, since Trump did order the killing of Solimany,
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: so you can't refer to him as taco man when
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: it comes to Iran. He didn't always chicken out when
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: it came to quote threats to Iran, which means, though,
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: does that mean he has room to back down here
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: or does that mean we are likely about to escalating
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: even further? And what is the rationale? Are we putting
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: these folks in the region to make sure they don't
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: attack their own people again, and if they do, we're coming,
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: then we're going to do that. You know, the President
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: rhetorically said that he had the protesters back at this point,
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: that he has not had their back now as far
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: as America's national interests are concerned, perhaps that was the
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: right call, that maybe that wasn't the right time. If
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: you're if the goal is regime changed, but that is
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: the goal here. I don't think anybody thinks keeping the
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: regime in place is the goal. I don't think if
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: the Iranians, I'm sure, and they'd be idiots if they
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: believe that they somehow so are the Iranians simply trying
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: to buy time to see if they can fortify themselves
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: against an attack. I'm skeptical that they can do that.
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: Or maybe they look at what happened in Venezuela and
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: see that Donald Trump is not serious about a democracy
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: and that if you capitulate enough and you give him
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: control of an important asset, you know, maybe they think
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: give him control of some of the Iranian oil business
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: and that Trump will back off. I know that sounds absurd,
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: but is it right? Is that totally out of the
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: realm of possibility, And yet at the same time, when
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: you've moved this many assets, it's hard to believe you're
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: not going to do something, and in fact, this is
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: where history. He is on the side of some sort
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: of military hot military intervention is coming. The question is
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: what does it look like? And and I guess I
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: would say, yeah, it's not miss right, But let's we've
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: been here before, right. Iraq began as inspectors and pressure,
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: and then we went in when when we wanted to
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: make the point that no, we were going to you
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: didn't accept these terms, there would be consequences. Libya, of course,
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: was a limited intervention, that's how it started. Afghanistan began
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: as targeted conter terrorism. So you know, this is why
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: I think there's going to be plenty of skeptical people
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: and write about what's happening here in Iran, because America
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: has a history of incremental escalation that feels tactical in
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: the moment, like maybe we're just trying to squeeze for
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: a deal or maybe we're trying to help the protesters,
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: and then in hindsight it's not so strategic, and then
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: we're caught up in something and the minute and if
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: we get involved in regime change, then we own it, right,
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: and we've got to help Iran build what a new
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: government is going to look like. That's what we're in
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: the middle of here with Venezuela, which I think is
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: kind of a potential disaster when you're dealing with you know,
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: just because the authoritarian is agreeing to all your terms
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: in the moment doesn't mean they're an ally. But I
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: fear we're starting to treat the Venezuela viceroy there as
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: some sort of of coerced ally because she's doing everything
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: he wants her to do in the moment. Is that
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: the situation that we're willing to take over in Iran
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: and if we strike, what if we don't get rid
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: of the regime, then what and then do you cut
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: a deal? I mean? So my point is is that
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: I I will be surprised if we back down. It
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: feels as if we're we've almost gone too far to
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: back down now without it being perhaps weakening our influence
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: and position within the region. Right now, we have in
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: some ways a very you know, we're extraordinarily influential with
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: our with the coercive measures that he's been using of late,
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: as well as the financial deals he's cut with the
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: Gulf States. So there's no doubt there is a there
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: is a part I think of Trump that loves sort
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: of how this region more than any other in the world,
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: is willing to be transactional, which of course is where
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: Trump wants to be in general, with sort of any
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: situation he's in. But I am so to go back
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: to end on this topic where I started. Are we
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: about to go to war with Iran? I see more
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: scenarios that indicate military escalation is more likely than I
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: see scenarios where we're not going to do anything at all?
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: Are we really? Is Donald Trump going to be the
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: guy to cut now? Is this really we're supposed to
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: assume this is a Nixon to China moment. Donald Trump's
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: going to cut a nuclear deal with the Iranian Supreme Leader,
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: And is the Iranian Supreme Leader going to suddenly be
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: his best friend? The way this thug is in Venezuela
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: now that he put into office, So it is I
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: think we have a lot more on the line here
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: than then we fully appreciate. But it does feel like
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: we've that's the point of no return, So we're going
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: to intervene again militarily in Iran. The unintended consequences of this.
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: If you've been a listener of this podcast. Over the
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: last couple of months, I've gone through them a lot.
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: Our interventions in Iran have all gone horribly long term. Right.
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: The reason arguably that there is an ayatola there in
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: the first place is because of how supportive we were
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: of a of an authoritarian regime that certainly was pro West,
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: but the way they treated their people wasn't necessarily synonymous
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: with the values of the West. So it's it's troubling.
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: And look, I can't wait for a small, d democratic Iran.
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: It's going to be an amazing there's an amazing opportunity here.
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: We should do whatever we can to support democracy in
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: Iran and to support those people that want democracy. But
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: we better be careful and how well we think we
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: can dictate outcomes. Every time we've tried to dictate an
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  Speaker 1: let me move domestically here to the You know, I'm
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: a political junkie at heart, and there is this Texas
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  Speaker 1: Senate race is quickly becoming an all timer to me.
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: When you've got you know, let's see what happens in November.
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: But my goodness, you've got to incredibly contentious primaries that
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: have developed on the Republican side and the Democratic side.
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: You have a ton of money, you have all sorts
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: of great sort of soap opera type plot twists, everything
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: that you've wanted if you're just a consumer of a
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: great political story and fascinating political tactics, campaigns, all sorts
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: of things. Texas has everything. And guess what, We're going
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: to have a runoff at least in one of these primaries.
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: So you know, we're going to get more cow bell
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  Speaker 1: going at least a Memorial Day. And as a consumer
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: of campaign politics, that's a lot more popcorn. We're going
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: to have to pot pop to enjoy this one. But
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: let's get into some things, because look, I want to
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: get into the FCC issue in Colbert in a minute.
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: But there's a bigger story developing in Texas that I
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: think is part of a larger trend that I think
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: is about to develop. The two candidates that are spending
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: the most money are currently not leading in the polls,
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: John Cornyn and James Tollerico. Now the polling on the
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: Democratic side, there's you know, what we've seen publicly, you
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: know has been, but there's been. You know, it seems
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: like Jasmine. It's very close, but I've seen more. I know,
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: I've seen more polls with crock A ahead lately than
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: i've seen with Tallarico ahead. But the financial gap between
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: the two is very lopsided, not as lopsided as Corny Paxton.
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: My goodness, Right Paxton has withstood sixty million dollars dropped
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: on his head. Right this Senate John with John Thune
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: controls the Senate. Republican essentially, Campaign Kitty has done everything
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: they can to stop Ken Paxton because they view Ken
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: Paxton as unelectable, and they've said so many things. It
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: may be sort of they may have. They've made the
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: case so well that Paxton is ethically and morally unfit
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: to serve an office, let alone in the United States Senate.
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: That I don't know how the party comes back to
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: trying to help support him. They will, because we know
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: how power is the most important currency in Washington, not
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: your morals or your ethics, and they will close their
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: eyes and support him if Paxton ends up the Republican nominee.
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: But they have spent sixty million dollars right They have
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: hit him with ads on the fact that he was
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: impeached in the Texas House but then acquitted in the
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: Texas Senate, which also included his wife. Then there was
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: the high profile divorce where his wife publicly said she
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: was divorcing on biblical grounds, essentially saying he committed adultery,
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: he cheated, and all sorts of financial scandals that actually
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: fed into the impeachment. They these attack ads. They've hit
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: Paxton all over the place, and he's still leading. He
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: barely has aired any ads, And in fact, the first
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: ad that I saw was him just putting the other
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: cuts of Donald Trump praising him over the years, so
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: implying that he has Trump's endorsement. We know that Trump
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: right now has said he's for all of the three candidates,
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: including the Congressman Wesley Hunt, but a few observations here
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: on this money issue and the fact that you know,
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: there's a point, there's a point where look, money matters,
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: but there's diminishing returns the more money you drop on something,
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: especially if you especially if the propose, if the side
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: you're trying to help isn't very popular, right, And John
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: Cornyn's not very popular, right. He's not popular at the
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: base of the Republican Party, and he's certainly not popular
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: with swing voters in the middle. They sort of they
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: certainly like him better than they like Paxton, but he
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: himself is not popular. So I think that's I think
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: that explains why Paxton. What these ads have done is
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: Paxton has not been able to grow any support. His
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: negatives continue to rise, but it is not accrue to
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: the benefit of Cornan. If anything, what we've seen is
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: Paxton's numbers have gotten worse in general election matchups. So
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: the irony to this is that the Senate Republicans have
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: essentially made Paxton even more unelectable in the general election.
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: But it is not persuaded Republican primary voters that he's
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: so unelectable they should abandon him. But they've made him
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: more unelectable. They have both Crockett and Talla Erico regularly
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: now lead Paxton in matchups across the board. That is
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: less to do with their candidacies and more to do
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: with how much negative ads have been dropped on Paxton already.
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: I mean, normally, this is what makes this Texas Senate
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: seat so appetizing for Democrats as a pickup. Normally, when
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: you're trying to pick off a seat, if you were,
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: you know, the National Party or the Senate Committee is
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: going to spend a bunch of money to try to
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: soften up the you know, especially during these primary phases.
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: But you actually are getting the Senate Democrats are getting
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: help from Senate Republicans and essentially softening up the likely
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: Republican nominee going forward. And I think that that's what
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: this money has done. It. You know, we saw sort
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: of a lesser extent of this, but like you know,
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: APAC spent a bunch of money to trying to defeat
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: a specific candidate in New Jersey. They successfully made sure
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: that candidate didn't win that special election den primary. But
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: the candidate that ended up benefiting was not the candidate
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: that Apak preferred. It was another candidate who actually was
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: arguably further further away from apax position than Tom mon Alawski,
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: the former member of Congress that they were that they
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: were trying to stop in the primary. So when you
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: you know, you never know the unintended consequences on negative
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: ads sometimes and who it benefits definitely hurts the candidate
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: you're going after. Doesn't always accrue to the benefit of
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: the candidate you're hoping to help. And what has happened
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: is Cornyn has just not you know, there's been more
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: negatives on Paxton than trying to reassure Republicans that Cornyn
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: is one of them. I guess it's basically the issue.
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: And you know, I think it's welcome to the vice
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: grip of the Trump Republican controlled Republican Party. Right. John
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: Cornyn is a Bush Republican. John corn is a Romney Republican.
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: John Corner is a McConnell Republican. John Cornyn is not
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: a Trump Republican. And you know who knows it, Republican
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: primary voters. And I think that's what we've seen here.
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: Let's see if he gets into the runof I suspect
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: he will. I assume Wesley Hunt does not have the
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: infrastructure to drive turn out to early vote. Corn's been
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: on the ballot so many times, Paxton's been on the
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: ballot a number of times. Both of them know how
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: the early vote works, both of them know how to
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: bank votes. So I suspect that you'll actually see Hunt
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: underperform his poll numbers. You know, if he's polling right
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: now in the mid to low twenties, if you told
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: me he ended up at seventeen or eighteen, it wouldn't
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: surprise me. What's the path for cornan and fifty percent
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: plus one? Especially, you know, we remember a Republican primary
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: about a decade ago with that featured Thad Cochrane against
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: somebody on the right. Well, Thad Cochrane had the benefit
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: of some Democrats willing to go into the Republican Party
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: to prop him up, and he was able to survive
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: in a runoff in a primary because you know, the
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: part of it was Democrats didn't expect to, you know,
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: have a competitive candidate. This is a different situation, and
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: it's I think it's pretty clear that all of this
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: money on Paxton has certainly heard Paxton, but it has
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: been it is it has had a bigger impact on
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: him as a job or election candidate, and it's had
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: a very limited impact on him as a primary candidate.
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: And in defense of the NRSC and the and the
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: Senate Republican packs that have been trying to stop Paxton,
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: you know, it's it's funny, you know, they it's easy
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: to say now they've they've got the wrong messaging. Obviously
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: they got the wrong messaging because it's not work.
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: It.
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: Paxton has some sort of Trumpian tefla. And it may
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: be that it for Republican primary voters to understand how
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: awful Paxton could be for them, they probably have to
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: lose the election before they sober up on this. But
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: we'll see. Now let's go to the Democratic side and
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: the and the interview that everybody has heard about. Now,
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: if you were a political jung of you listen to
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: this podcast, I know you know the story. James tollerco
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: goes on Colbert, we're about two weeks for the primary.
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: In the scheduled interview, so I want to get to
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: that in a minute. The interview somehow gets pulled and
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: there's in and what's interesting here, by the way, and
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: also a reminder of our changing media landscape in another
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: era if showing up on Colbert and Tallerico's hope was
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: to go there on the first day of early voting
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: to sort of, you know, maximize attention for his campaign.
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: Having that interview polled would have been devastating. But instead, right,
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: they turned it into a controversy and then you could
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: get a bootleg version of it on YouTube, and then
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: suddenly it gets more views on YouTube than it ever
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: would have gotten on legacy television in the first place.
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: Oh and he got to race two an ff million
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: dollars by claiming that this is the interview Donald Trump
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: didn't want you to see. But I'm going to get
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: to that in a minute. Boyd reminder that just grievance
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: is a great fundraising tool left or right, obviously, and
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: we also are living in a political ecosystem that we're
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: perceived censorship is actually more powerful than the airtime itself.
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: Right without the with out the victimhood of the censorship,
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: this would have actually gone. It would have been a
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: nothing burger. But it does lead me to this next
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: piece of the puzzle. And I want to be very
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: careful here. Let's talk about the equal time rule. I'm
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: very familiar with it. I've had to deal with it
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: when I was at NBC, and it is all about
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: whether your show is considered on the news side or
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: the entertainment side. So let me get it to it.
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: So let's start with this. Here's the equal time room,
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: section three fifteen A of the Communications Act of nineteen
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: thirty four. And by the way, yes, all of these
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: rules are out outdated. I know this. Okay, that's a
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: summary judgment. As my friend George Conway will say, those
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: are accepted facts. We got it. But at the moment,
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: this is the policy, and Section three fifteen A of
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: the Communications Act of nineteen thirty four says that if
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: a broadcast station gives airtime to a legally call candidate,
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: it must afford equal opportunities to other candidates for that office.
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: Here are the caveats. It applies to broadcast licenses only,
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: so not to anything on anything that's called cable or
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: any digital platforms like YouTube. It applies to candidates, not packs.
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: And there are exemptions for bonafide newscasts, bona fide news interviews, documentaries,
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: and on the spot coverage. It's why a show like
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: The View, which sits under the News division at ABC,
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: can qualify for those exemptions. Late night entertainment shows don't
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: automatically qualify for that protection because they're not under the
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: news umbrella. At most of these news stations, they are
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: under the entertainment umbrella. And usually, and this matters, equal
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: Time issues are triggered by a candidate complaint, not by
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: the regulators proactively nudging a network. So this is where
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna just be honest here. I don't I don't
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: know if I'm getting the full story out of Colbert
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: or out of CBS. I feel like the both sides
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: are cherry picking rather than getting at the core issue here,
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: So let me get there. So when this tallar Rico
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: segment gets pulled and the explanation is legal caution around
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: equal time, I get how immediately grievance filled the vacuum
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: and it became an opportunity. So was it censorship? Was
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: it lawyers being cautious? Was it someone gaining the narrative? Well, sadly,
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: in this era it doesn't matter because grievance is the
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: currency and both parties know how to spend it. But
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: do keep in mind that here's what I don't understand
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: and why I'm not jumping on anything here, But I'll
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: tell you who the real loser is here, and it's
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: Jasmine Crockett. And let me explain. So, like I said,
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: normally this equal time provisions are triggered when a candidate complains,
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: the FCC looks into it, lawyers end up. So I've
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: been on this side Saturday Night Live. And by the way,
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: timing of win an election and some of this is
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: has to do with that. Had Jazz had the Talla
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: Rico interview aired, and Jasmine Crockett and or her and
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: there's another candidate on the Democratic ballot went to CBS
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: and said, hey, we won equal time. I know what
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: the CBS lawyers, the smart lawyers would have said, Okay,
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: we will give you the length of the segment was this,
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: we will give you airtime after eleven thirty at night
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: or I guess Central time after ten thirty at night,
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: And maybe it would have been a you know, they
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: could count up the minutes of the interview itself, you know,
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: eight minutes, ten minutes, and you get ten minutes on
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: the CBS affiliates in the state of Texas. So for instance,
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: I believe sometime between Iowa and South Carolina, memory served
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: Saturdaynight Live had some I can't remember which candidate was,
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: had a major candidate do a pop in. I think
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: it was on the Republican side. Somebody filed for equal
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: time provisions, and essentially to comply with the FCC, NBC
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: agreed to give five minutes on its network affiliates in.
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: I think it was the state of South Carolina because
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: that was the next primary up. It was not you
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: were not given equal time across the country itself, just
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: in the areas where their voters were going to go
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: to the polls. This is why it would have just
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: applied to the state of Texas. So here are the
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: questions I have that we don't have good answers for,
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: because it does feel as if Here's what we don't know.
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: Was Barry Wise instructed CBS lawyers trying to essentially spook
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: Colbert from even putting on Tylerrico and they just wanted
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: to keep out of this. Did Colbert only here they're
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: trying to stop me from putting on Tolerrico? Screw them,
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: God damn it. You know this equal times I've had
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: Jasmin Krockett on and he didn't listen to the details, right,
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: you know, I don't know the answer to these things,
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: and I'd like more clarity here. It feels like there
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: were a lot of people interested in hurrying up and
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: pointing fingers than getting at to okay, did anybody file
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: a grievance here? Did any candidate ask for equal time?
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: You know? Did Colbert and tal Rico? Were they just
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: simply looking to for a moment. Did they stumble into something?
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: Because now Colbert has done more to help taal Rico's
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: primary campaign than simply airing the interview themselves. So, like
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: I said, the loser here is Jasmine Crockett because taal
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: Rico has been trailing in the polls. Tall Rico has
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: been not been as good of a candidate since Crockett
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: got into the race. We've seen multiple polls show that
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: Crockett is no, you know, more or less of a
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: threat to winning that Senate seat in a general election. Right.
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: The perception is she can't she's going to do worse
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: than tall Rico in a general election, but there's no
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: polling evidence to back that up. And she's leading the
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: primers and I'm running tw different races, right, and there's
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: been this fumble that Taller Rico got himself into where
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: he seemed to trap bad mouth, you know, sort of
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: knock the candidacy of Colin all Red. But he used
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: you know, he used Colin all Redd's identity in his
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: way of sort of putting down his candidacy. And he
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: seemed to imply that if Jasmin Crockett had already been
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: in the race, he wouldn't have run that race. Now
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: you've heard me say a million times, I'm convinced tall
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: Rico was never thinking about running for Senate, but a
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: bunch of consultants out of Washington in New York talked
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: him into it and begged him to do it, saying,
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: this is a race you can win. You can't win
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: the governor's race. What would have been in the best
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: interest of the party probably would have been tall Rico
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: running for governor and letting either all Read or Crockett
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: run for Senate because ultimately it you know, well, it
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: all depends on what your focus is. Do you really
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: think you can win that Senate seat or do you
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: really want to rebuild the Democratic Party in Texas. Maybe
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: you could have done both at the same time. But
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: I will tell you this, the sum total of this
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: controversy has been it is a bigger boon, and in
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: some ways Colbert overreaction perhaps or aggressive reaction. That was
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: the biggest in kind contribution he could have made to
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: James Tollerico's primary campaign. So I wouldn't be shocked if
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: a lot of Crockett folks are quietly fuming at this,
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: fuming at Colbert, upset about the timing. After all, Colbert
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: was willing to put him on at a critical moment
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: in his campaign, at the start of early voting. So
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: it's let's just say, like I said, I'd like I'd
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: like more on this story. I'm very aware of how
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: and again, and the other thing this is exposed is
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: these equal time rules are just outdated, silly and frankly
• 37:12
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  Speaker 1: you know, in the stable coin bill. And he basically said, Hey,
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: you're the folks around a super packed network called fair Shake,
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: a pro crypto network of donors and its affiliates have
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: one hundred and ninety three million, and you better just
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: get in line or they're going to financially destroy you.
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: And it was like, Wow, this isn't lobbying anymore. This
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: is financial coercion, is this is mob This is a
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: mob sort of a TV mobster like tactic. Let me explain.
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: So fair Shake has one hundred has this war chest
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: of one hundred and ninety three million dollars. Right, that's
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: not just influence money, right, that's electoral air superiority money.
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: And here's the thing Chuck Schumer has concluded, and some
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: Democratic strategists have concluded that be and Shared Brown is
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: the one who I think is told said that if
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: it wasn't for the crypto pro crypto money that Bernie
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: Moreno got in Ohio, that Shared Brown would have could
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: have won that center race. But Crypto decided that Shared
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: Brown was an enemy of crypto and they were going
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: to do whatever it took, and that in some ways
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: Crypto wanted to use Shared Brown as an example to
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: anybody else that wanted to get in their way about regulation.
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: So Shared Brown, who is one of the most vocal
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: skeptics of the crypto industry when he was in the
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: US Senate, loses after tens of millions of dollars flood
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: that race. So the lesson that Chuck Schumer took away
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: was the following if you cross the industry, you may
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: not survive politically. So here we are in twenty twenty
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: six and a fair Shake affiliate announces right now, they've
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: put out they have a one point five million dollar
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: effort against a Democratic and coom congressman named Al Green,
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: and it's explicitly tied because he voted against crypto legislation
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: that the super pac wanted to see pass. So they're
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: going to make sure they primary anybody that votes against them,
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: because they want to prove to Washington that they, you know,
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: their money isn't just about thanking people that help them.
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: Their money will punish the those that don't. In a
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: healthy system, a party leader whips for votes. But in
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: this system, at the moment, party leaders are essentially been
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: coerced by a super pack to then tell their own members, hey,
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: we can't protect you from these guys. If you've got
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: principles and you want to stand up to them, good luck.
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: They're going to beat the living daylight out of you.
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: So they're basically saying, just find a way to support this.
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: It's deterrence. And what's scary is that this is now,
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: I mean, this is what Silicon Valley has figured out
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: and there's so much money. This is why we're going
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: to have to figure out a better way to deal
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: with money in politics, because if you can make dissent
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: too expensive, you don't have to win a policy argument anymore.
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: All you have to do is raise enough money to
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: threaten those that may get in your way. And if
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: people care more about staying in office than doing something
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: about then you know they shouldn't be there in the
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: first place. So when Chuck Schumer flips on this and
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: says Crypto is here to stay, we need to get
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: it right, some people wouldn't say that was a corruption,
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: that that's just reaction. He's been persuaded. Has he been
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: persuaded because he now is convinced that this is a
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: good financial instrument, or has he been persuaded because there's
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: so much goddamn money got dropped on Shared Brown's head
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: that and all Chuck Schumer cares. You know that hey
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: ends justifies the means, and Crypto's not the fight worth
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: having in the moment, So screw it. I'll take their
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: money and we'll worry about it later. Wow, we have
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: a broken this again. And look, I am a cryptoskeptic.
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: I've made that clear. I think we you know, it's
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: just like anything. I know, you let something go without
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: any regulation, and then it gets too big, and then
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: you're trying to put regulation in. And then suddenly the
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: industry that grew out of nowhere without any guard rails
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: is going, well, we don't want any guard rails, and
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: so they and they already have accumulated. And all they're
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: trying to do is get the government essentially to legalize
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: their wealth a you know, a valuation that not everybody
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: agrees is worth a thing. But they have now lobbied
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: the government to essentially invent this regulatory structure in order
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: to give credence to said system. And there are people
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: who are skeptics of this. And the Senate Democratic leader
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: is saying that when an opponent has enough money, do
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: not oppose them anymore, find a way to appease them.
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: Is that what you want in your elected leadership. It
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: is talk about a reminder that money has too much
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: influence and how weak the leadership of the Democratic Party
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: has become. Finally, just a little grace note I sort
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: of set it up top, but before we get to
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: George Conway, and it's you know, it's an outrage filled interview.
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: But this entire there's two things that sort of chat
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: my ass about this. If you've read anything about what's
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: happening locally here with this burst sewer situation with the Potomac,
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: and when you drive over the American Legion Bridge and
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: four five you can now smell thanks because now you
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: know the ice is melting, so you know it's been
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: there a while. And trust me, it's gross to pick
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: up the the dog poop in my own backyard with
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: the melting ice. Imagine a burst sewer pipe, right, and
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: the smell and all of that. But there's two things
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: that really sort of show what's wrong, you know that
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: we've got we've got some problems to fix. One is
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: we've gotten a president who's who never wants to help first,
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: and he wants to blame somebody else. Look, this is
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: one of those situations where there may be an entity
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: to blame. How about fix the fucking problem first. How
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: about everybody pick up a shovel, mister president, how about
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: you get your EPA and you get Look, just offer
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: a hand and help your fellow Americans. Don't instead say
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: I'm not gonna help. I'm not gonna do shit until
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: you come begging for my help and admit it's your fault.
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: It just this is a continuation. This administration, more than
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: any other in my lifetime, has wanted a condition helping
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: Americans based on political blame. Whether you know FEMA has
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: been weaponized this way. I've seen. I saw it happen
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: in Florida when when Governor DeSantis refused to go deal
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: with flooding issues Broward County because it was a blue area.
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: We cannot deal with disasters based on politics. And you
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: know you'll reap what you sew. You wouldn't want the
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: other party to do this to your community. And you've
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: seen the anger where people thought, and there was some
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: evidence that a few people didn't help people in that
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: north in North Carolina because they thought, Oh, they're magot people.
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: They're not gonna want they're gonna be afraid of FEMA,
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: they're not going to like me. That's just as bad
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: not offering potential help there. Then you, mister President, and others,
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: trying to point fingers for a situation that may have
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: a lot of fingerprints and who's to blame here? But
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: can we not worry about the blame game in the moment,
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: and can we just fix the problem. There's a federal issue,
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: there's state issues, there's city issues, there's EPA issues, there's infrastructure,
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: there's all sorts of issues. There's certainly plenty of bureaucratic
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: finger pointing, but stop the finger pointing, get off your ass,
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: and just fix the goddamn thing. Rant two has to
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: do with the impossibility to find out what the hell
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: is going on with this situation. We used to have
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: a very powerful local regional paper here called The Washington Post.
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: They have decided to no longer be a major news
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: organization and they've decided to just be a sort of
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: trade publication covering Congress in national politics. God bless him,
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: good luck with that business strategy. But it has really
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: been difficult to piece together, as as just a simple resident,
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: to try to figure out what's the hold up, what's
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: the break here, you know, And it's because we don't
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: have a devoted news organization trying to, you know, help
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: all of us in this community live our lives. So
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: this is a case where local news dies in darkness.
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: Thank you Jeff Bezos and Will Lewis for very early
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: on showing us how valuable local news can be and
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: what happens when you don't have an outlet anymore to
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: figure out what's going on. All I literally, we're all
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: just trading, whether it's on next door Arlington now Montgomery County. Look,
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of people trying to piece things together,
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: and we're trying to figure out what's happening. But it's
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: a shame we don't have a local news organization like
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: the Washington Post focused on a story like this anymore.
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: All right, with that, let's sneak in a break. Let's
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: get to get to George Conway on the other side.
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: This episode of the Chuck Podcast is brought to you
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• 53:14
  Speaker 1: I enjoy putting on people that are running for office.
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: This is no just ordinary candidates. Somebody I've known a
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: long time George Conway. I first got to know him
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: as a conservative attorney, sort of a political attorney's probably
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: the best way to do it. Involved in sort of
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: legal debates from a conservative side. His prominence rose with
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: he and his former wife, Kelly and Conway. And of course,
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: if you've followed, if you've not lived in a coma
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: or stuck your head in the sand, you know very
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: well about George's journey away from the conservative movement and
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: the Republican Party, and the journey has moved all the
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: way into registering as a Democrat and running for as
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: Democratic of a congressional seat as I could think of
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: that includes both the Upper West and Upper East side
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: of Manhattan, Georgia. A you okay with that introduction, what
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: would you add? What would you I would.
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: Add is I think the Republican Party moved away from
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: planet Earth and moved away from me and all that
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: is right and decent and just and things like. You know,
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: I mean, we have a Republican Party today that believes
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: in tariffing the shit out of every country in the
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: world for no apparent reason, and and you know, depriving
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: people of their civil liberties by taking them off from
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: the into dungeons. And it's not it's not it's not
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: the Republican Party I joined in nineteen eighty and I,
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: you know, it's just a completely I don't think it's conservative,
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: all right.
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: And I you know, I take you as somebody because
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: I it's funny. I think we all go on these journeys.
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: You you sort of figure out your own politics when
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: you watch the two parties sort of carve things up differently. Yes,
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: And I realized I was more libertarian than I thought
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: I was. I had no idea right until you used
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: to to see and it sounds you know, I always said,
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: the Republican Party was made up of sort of you know,
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: various coalitions. There was your your evangelicals, your Christian conservatives,
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: you had your sort of Chamber of Commerce types, but
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: then there were also the libertarian conservatives sort of you know,
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: get government off my back. Am I wrong to assume
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: that that's probably what drew you to the party? Is
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: that what drew you to the party?
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah? I look, I mean I was more I was
• 55:27
  Speaker 2: more like an I mean what drove why the reason
• 55:30
  Speaker 2: why I became a Republican in nineteen eighty I mean
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: I became a Republican after the election of Reagan.
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: I was that was a year. Is not to get
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: religious here, but a lot of people sort of sort
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: of embraced being a Republican nineteen eight. My father was
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: one of those people. He was from this Reagan Democrat
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: that never voted Democrat again.
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: You know, I in high school, if he would ask
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: me what I was in nineteen seventy seven, when I
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: was in ninth grade, which is in the Lake of Watergate,
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: I consider myself a Scoop Jackson Democrat. And in nineteen eighty,
• 56:03
  Speaker 2: which was my first my freshman year in college, that
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: fall when the election happened, and I was kind of
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: done with Jimmy Carter and I actually, if I had
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: been old enough to vote, I was only seventeen, I
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: would have voted for John Anderson. And then when Reagan won,
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: it was like, well, I don't really disagree much with
• 56:21
  Speaker 2: what he says. He wants a strong national defense, and
• 56:24
  Speaker 2: I have been you know, I my education on economics
• 56:30
  Speaker 2: was listening to Teddy Kennedy talk about wage and price
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: controls and reading about wage and price controls how historically
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: they didn't work, and then watching the documentary Free to Choose,
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: remember that on PBS with Milton and Rose Friedman, and
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: it was like, I don't think the government needs to
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: run everything. And that was that was the source of
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: my conservatism. And as a you know, legal conservatism, you know,
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: that was an era where legal the law was kind
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: of turmoil. Constitutional is turmoil because the question was how
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: far could judges take vague or not even just principles
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: in the Constitution that they just create on their own,
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: because I think they want to make the world a
• 57:15
  Speaker 2: better place. And I, you know, it's like, no, no, no,
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: I read the document. What does the document say and
• 57:22
  Speaker 2: what do you know, we don't like the document, there's
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: a whole thing you do to change it. And so
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: I became a legal conservative as well. I was never
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: evangelical or religious conservative. I was more I was kind
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: of a you know, a legal conservative in the sense
• 57:34
  Speaker 2: that I read texts and I try to be objective
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: about what they say. I was a economic conservative of
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: the sense that I didn't believe in, you know, Teddy
• 57:45
  Speaker 2: Kennedy's price price controls, and remembered the only person who
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: did price controls in our life. I was Richard out
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: a side figure.
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: And there's always a Richard Nixon. Well, now they'll be
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: the Donald Trump.
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: Nixon was one of the most liberal presidents of our lifetime.
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: Not even close exactly.
• 58:05
  Speaker 3: I mean, you know, you can't explain the kids. And
• 58:09
  Speaker 3: what's funny about it is that, you know who would
• 58:11
  Speaker 3: have agreed with that was Nixon himself, because Nixon would
• 58:15
  Speaker 3: have argued he was simply responding to what was clearly popular.
• 58:20
  Speaker 3: It was popular to get the government more involved in things.
• 58:23
  Speaker 3: Medicare was popular, the civil rights you know, we were
• 58:26
  Speaker 3: through Itay started.
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: I mean, he did all that shit, and he had
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: you know, and and and you know, you ever, I'm sure,
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: of course you've watched.
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: And by the way, he would have signed off on
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: some form of the version of Obamacare today was essentially
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: what Nixon would have agreed to if Kennedy would have
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: signed off on it.
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and remember remember when he got back from China.
• 58:50
  Speaker 2: There's there's this opening scene to all the presidents met,
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: which begins his State of the Union address in nineteen
• 58:57
  Speaker 2: seventy two, or not none of me. It was a
• 58:59
  Speaker 2: joined addressed to Congress after coming back from China, and
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: it's democratic Congress, like overwhelmingly a democratic Congress, like democratic
• 59:08
  Speaker 2: has ever been in our lifetimes, and he's getting a
• 59:11
  Speaker 2: standing ovation. Of course, they deep down hated him because
• 59:14
  Speaker 2: he was stealing their thunder and and co opting them
• 59:18
  Speaker 2: and all sorts of stuff, but they got all. You know,
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: he was he was actually a very liberal president. He
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: was corrupt as hell and and and did all sorts
• 59:27
  Speaker 2: of illegal ship and covered it up, but you know,
• 59:29
  Speaker 2: he was. He was a little president. But anyway, you know,
• 59:32
  Speaker 2: it's the point is that the party. You know, when
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: I try to explain to people younger people today, like
• 59:40
  Speaker 2: they say conservative Republican, they think conservative Republicanism was always
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: trump Ism. I know, it wasn't the case. They were
• 59:48
  Speaker 2: different means of conservatives. They were, you know, Reagan somehow
• 59:52
  Speaker 2: managed to bring the evangelical conservatives with the more libertarian
• 59:57
  Speaker 2: conservatives and the military hawks all together, and it was
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 2: That's what political parties are, their coalitions today. You know,
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 2: the Republican Party isn't a coalition, It's a cult.
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: What's interesting about that is, I think the question that
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: I have is sort of I now call myself a
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: political anthropologist more than anything else these days.
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 2: But this is the perfect conversation for you.
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: That's because you know, it's sit there, and what I
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: struggle with is can the Democratic Party handle this many
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: coalitions under its tent? I said, you know, you know,
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: if you think about the twenty twenty coalition for Biden,
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: you had everybody from AOC to John Kasek and Liz Cheney.
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: And when you try to stretch a tent, eventually it
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: might split in the middle. Yeah, and that is a concern.
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: At what point can can the Democratic Party successfully take
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: all of you refugees right and still have a coherent,
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: a coherent, proactive view of governance. I think it's very difficult.
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: Oh, look, I mean, we don't get to that question
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 2: until the current crisis is over.
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: No, it's I find this is what I thought so
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: interesting to me because of how honest you are about
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: why you're running.
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: Right, and we don't get to have those policy debates,
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 2: And frankly, I'm not I don't think I'm much different
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 2: on policy than your Abigail Spanberger or your Nikey Sheryl
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 2: or you're who's the guy in Kentucky. I don't think
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 2: you know, And I you know, okay, I'm not a
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 2: Mam Donnie Democrat, but I you know, I get you know,
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 2: we're an AOC Democrat. But I get what they're trying
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 2: to do, and I you know, I I kind I
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 2: admire that they have this, you know, object of helping people,
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 2: and I have no problem with that is a question
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 2: of what the means are and how much it costs.
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 2: We don't get to have those debates now because explain yeah.
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: Right, explain your rationale. It's very unique. I think it's
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: I like that how straightforward you are about your running.
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 1: And it's two terms.
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 2: And here's my mission, right, tell it to the tell
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 2: it to my here is there it is, Okay, I'm
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 2: sixty two years old, which is why I remember, you know,
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 2: Nixon going to China. And I never've always been kind
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 2: of a political junkie, right I was. I grew up
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 2: on Watergate and it was fascinating.
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: I think that's really why we hit it off so well,
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: right right on Watergate.
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: And I developed two things. A fascination with politics, with
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 2: our constitutione no free things, our constitutional system. And I
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 2: also developed this hatred of corrupt politicians of any party,
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 2: of any strike, and of people abusing their offices, which
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: is why, you know, I mean, I'm the guy who
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 2: helped Paula Jones, and I'm the guy who helped Egene Carroll,
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 2: and I'm the guy, you know, I'm the guy who
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 2: hated Nixon, and I'm hey, Trump hated Trump, and it's
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 2: it's it's just sort of my through line makes sense
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 2: to me, but you you know, it doesn't make sense
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 2: to somebody necessarily who's just saying, well, he was a
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 2: conservative republic. Look at what these conservative publicans.
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: How could you have ever done?
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 2: And if you're politically sophisticated and you're older, you get it,
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 2: and if you're listening to me, you get it. But anyway,
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 2: my whole point about running now, I kind of went
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 2: off the question here. Okay, at age sixty two, the
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 2: reason why I'm doing this, I should be retired. I
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 2: am retired. I'm a retired Laura. I worked a few
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 2: blocks away from here. I've got twenty blocks away from here,
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 2: and I you know, I did well for myself. I
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 2: should be skiing in Park City right now. Okay, I
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 2: should be doing something or going on a world cruise.
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 2: I should be doing all this. I can't because this
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 2: is just this is just the last few years have
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 2: been so absolutely appalling to me. And at this point,
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 2: I don't think a lot. I don't think enough people get,
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 2: even democrats, what we have to do here. There's a
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 2: lot of it. I went to something last night at
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 2: the City Bar, which is this great panel with my
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 2: friend Judge Looting, and basically the lawyers are talking about, oh,
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 2: how can what can the courts do? And Looting is
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 2: saying the Supreme Court sucks and and and it's it's
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 2: a disaster, and other people saying, what about nationwide in junctions?
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 2: All this technical stuff about the law and how district
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 2: judges are doing their best and the Supreme Court's kind
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 2: of screwing them up, and then the administration is attacking
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 2: the judges. It's like the Framers did not he I'm
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 2: gonna put my federalist society or religious original on which
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 2: you know, I shouldn't say that.
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: The campaign people, Yeah, don't ever say don't say the
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: word thefort some.
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 2: Worst you could say the other f wort. You can't
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 2: say this, okay, the originalist view of how you deal
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 2: with a fucker like Trump, that's the F word.
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 1: I can the other that's the word you're allowed to use. Yeah, okay.
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 2: Impeachment and removal the joke they didn't intend. The courts
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 2: cannot play. The courts don't have barneys, they don't have
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 2: police officers. At the end of the day, to enforce
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 2: their orders, it requires the Justice Department to bring contempt
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 2: proceedings or the Justice Department to put people in jail.
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 2: They won't do that, And they can disobey orders anytime
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 2: they like. And what they do, and they're kind of
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 2: doing it in kind of a half assed way. What
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 2: they do is they basically, oh, they kind of comply
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 2: slowly with one order, like you know when you're kind
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 2: of you know, your kid is grudgingly doing something, and
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 2: they kind of take a long.
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: Time, so they always you're absolutely right, They comply just
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 1: enough to say they're complying with something, right, and then
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: and then.
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 2: The courts can't hold them in the contempt. And then
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 2: they do the same thing to the next person, like
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 2: they've done it like thousands of times. It's a total
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 2: it's a strategy, right, it's a total strategy. And then
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 2: meanwhile they're attacking the courts. The courts cannot they cannot
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 2: fix this problem. Okay, the problem, you're right, the framers
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 2: fixed by Congress. That's what they intended. That's why they
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 2: put the impeachment clauses in there.
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 1: No, they understood, you couldn't that a president was not
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: going to get a fair trip in our system. You
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: couldn't create a system to make it fair right in
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: either in any direction, which is why it had to
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: be done the separate way. My only concern about a
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 1: third impeachment is, I don't I don't want to presume
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: why you're you're focused on this, but I which is
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 1: I assume you want to say, look, we've got to
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: send that. This is this is how you do it,
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: This is how the system is supposed to work, and look,
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: we'll do it again if we have to do it.
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: Do you worry that it's simply just weakens the weakens
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: it so much it just stops being a useful deterrent.
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 2: What what weakens? Impeachment?
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 1: Impeachment?
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 2: You know, it's never been weaker. That's the problem. Yeah, Okay,
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 2: the problem is we've.
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: Well the problems Mitch McConnell and that vote. I mean,
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: I go back. I mean, everything was done exactly how
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 1: the founders intended. And Mitch McConnell didn't hold a real trial.
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: But let's set that aside. Okay, Well, yeah, it's tough
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 1: whatever a real tril's supposed to look like when it
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: comes to this. In fairness, right, you have to act.
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 2: That's what they did with Andrew Johnson.
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 1: Well, and it's actually what was done with Clinton.
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: We had a few witnesses, Yeah they didn't actually one yeah, yeah,
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 1: on video, But so we've I take your point on that,
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: but ultimately we were there and Mitch McConnell choked, and
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 1: you know.
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 2: He deserves to burn. I mean, I'm not gonna use
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 2: that language. He deserves, he deserves, he deserves.
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 1: I always say this, I hope he regrets the rest
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 1: of his life reprobation for that. I hope he loses
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 1: ship every night of his life.
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he you know, he he he was, he was
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 2: scared and he had he had the moment, he could
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 2: have he could have could he have gotten the requisite
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 2: number of what was? I think? So?
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I know he gets Rob Portman, I know
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: he gets you know, probably Tillius. You know, there were
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: a handful that we're waiting for the signal, and we
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: know they would have come. I mean if Cassidy and
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 1: Burr were there, imagine who else would have come if
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: McConnell had.
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 2: Voted absolutely And what he thought was, which is the
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 2: thing you cannot a mistake you cannot make with malignantly
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 2: narcissistic leaders like a Trump or a Putin or whatever.
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 2: You can't assume they're just gonna go away. They don't.
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 1: He thought shame would push push them away.
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 2: You know, he's not gonna go away. They always like,
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 2: they always come back for more, and they always seek retribution.
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 2: They never stop. They can't stop. They're not capable of stopping.
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 2: Which is why this guy is going to get worse
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 2: and worse and worse now in terms of whether we
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 2: impeach the power. If the power isn't is the most
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 2: is as weak as it's ever been, precisely because people say, oh,
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 2: we tried it twice, we can't do it. And if
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 2: that's true, and we're not going to try this president
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 2: in the Senate, if we're not going to try to
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 2: impeach this president and have a trial in the Senate
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 2: of this guy for doing every fucking illegal thing in
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 2: the book he could think of, and grifting off the presidency,
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 2: and indicting of political enemies on bullshit, and and and disobeying,
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 2: you know, hutting government programs without acts of Congress and
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 2: U surpacing usurping Congress's power, and trying and trying to
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 2: rename everything, holding holding out. This is the Gateway project,
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 2: right right that that's the Gateway project. They're going to
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 2: build an Amtrak tunnel there, and he wants he's holding
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 2: that fastage, even though the money has been appropriated and
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 2: even though the government has legal contracts obligating it to
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 2: fund this program, he's holding it hostage because he wants
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 2: Penn Station named after him in Dallas airportner. This is
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 2: this guy. This is insane and he's he's basically violates
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 2: his oath of office every minute of every hour of
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 2: every day, and except when he's tweeting in the middle
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 2: of the night.
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 1: And but you know, but.
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 2: If we can't impeach and remove this guy, then there
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 2: is no impeachment clause in the Constitution. There is no
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 2: impeachment provision in the country. There is no Article one
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 2: anymore because Congress is basically seating its authority to a
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 2: guy who's basically saying I can make the law. So
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 2: it's really an all or nothing thing here. Do we
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 2: want a constitutional government? Do we want the rule of law?
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 2: Or are we just gonna say, oh, we tried impeachment
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 2: twice and I don't We don't we want to. We
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 2: want to keep it in our back pocket and keep
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 2: it for the next time. What's that?
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 1: And that's look, I sit here and I will put
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 1: my political anthropologist slash observer hat on and say, boy,
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 1: I don't know if this is good politics, right, I
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 1: don't know if this is good for twenty twenty eight.
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 1: I don't know if people are what do you do
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 1: about the exhausted middle But here's the thing. I can't
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 1: push back on you on you're not wrong about any
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 1: of this. And ultimately again and no, you're not wrong
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 1: about any of this. So it is it is sort
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 1: of and the decision. You know, I'm thinking out loud here,
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 1: but the number of times that collectively political figures and
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 1: political parties make these compromises because of what we'll play
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 1: in the next election versus what is right versus wrong
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 1: right is probably why most Americans don't trust politicians, because
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 1: most politicians always take the easy path, the easier path,
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 1: the non conflicting path, because they think that's actually what
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 1: voters want, and no, they.
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 2: Want to Look, it's this isn't a political calculus, Okay,
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 2: I get it. In twenty nineteen, there was a lot
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 2: of you know, between Nadler and Pelosi and all the
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 2: you know, all the dynamics and the Democratic Caucus about
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 2: whether to impeach the guy, how much to impeach him on,
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 2: and how quick the trial should be. You know, Look,
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 2: I get politics. Places, these are political branches. But at
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 2: the end of the day, with what's going on here
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 2: and now, it's no longer a question of political calculus.
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 2: It's a moral and legal and constitutional obligation of Congress
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 2: to do this West the other I think it's a
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 2: I would be a violation of of the oath of
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 2: office for a member of Congress not to push for
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 2: impeachment when it is possible.
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 1: What are the consequences of not doing this?
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 2: The consequences of not doing this is basically, look, psychologically,
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 2: he's deteriorating, he's getting worse, he's getting more uncontrollable. He's dangerous,
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 2: he has you know, he's a nut job, and he's
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 2: a criminal, and he's a malicious and human being. Will
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 2: Care has no conscience, no morals, no remorse, no empathy,
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 2: And he controls five thousand nuclear weapons in the entire
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 2: armed forces of the United States of America. And he's
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 2: deshoing our alliances and he's justssuring our relationships with foreign countries.
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 2: He's basically holding projects for or infrastructure and healthcare spending
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 2: hostage because of his whim. He wants things named after him,
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 2: and he wants to control people's He's creating his own
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 2: private basically his own army, domestic domestic army, with fifty
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 2: billion dollars that he wants to spend on ice to
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 2: control the cities. And you know, this is not separate
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 2: from the elections in twenty twenty six. Know, he was saying,
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 2: maybe you know, Bondie was saying, maybe we could Uh,
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 2: he's up on ice if you give us your voter roles.
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 2: I mean, this is he is trying to establish all powerfulness.
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 2: He's taking away Article one powers of Congress. He's defying
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 2: the courts. He's threatening to to to fuck with the elections,
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 2: and he will do that. This is not this isn't
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 2: even close to normal. This is this is the republic.
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 2: The rule of law, the constitution are all on the line,
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 2: and they are on the line now. And and if
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 2: you know, the only way we stopped this is a
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 2: combination of people being out in the streets and voting
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 2: for members of Congress who will have the calhonis to
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 2: stand up to the guy and say that's enough. We're
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 2: not going to fund this. We are going to impeach
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 2: you and remove you. We're going to impeach and removed. No,
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 2: we're going to peach and remove Bondie. We're going to
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 2: peach and remove of Robert Kennedy for for for his
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 2: crazy shit. Okay, and we have to do all that
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 2: or else, you know, we're not going to last three
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 2: more years of this. We we aren't. I just don't.
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 2: I just don't think. I don't think there's enough alarm
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 2: and enough I think people are just thinking because we
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 2: we we have a country where, yes, a lot of
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 2: people are feeling the squeeze of of higher prices and
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 2: of unaffordable housing and healthcare. But we have a lot
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 2: of people who just it's like, Okay, well, I'm living
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 2: my life. It's nice. It's I get to I watch
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 2: my favorite shows on Netflix, and I get to watch
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 2: the watch the sports on TV, and I live in
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 2: a nice, warm house, and I just can't deal with
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 2: all that stuff that's going on there. Well, that's how
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 2: democracies die. That's how, how how how the rule of
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 2: law dies. That's how self government dies. And it is
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 2: dying before our very eyes unless we exercise the power
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 2: that Congress and the duty that the framers in the
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 2: Congress of the United States to impeach and remove corrupt
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 2: executive officials. And we have never seen, never, in two
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 2: hundred and fifty years, we have never seen a government
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 2: in the United States as corrupt as this one. And
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 2: if we can't get rid of this, this one wor
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 2: screwed it's done. I still go my still just quit.
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 1: Harting was close. Harting was close. It's it was closer
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 1: than Watergate. I don't you know, I mean handed over
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 1: like just parts of the government. I mean people don't prosecute.
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 2: Did he prosecute political enemies that.
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 1: I don't think. I'm just saying on the financial corruption,
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 1: it was, it's not worse than Trump. Trump is the
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 1: worst since Parting.
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm just talking about I'm not so talking about
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 2: financial corruption, talking about moral corruption. I'm talking about corruption
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 2: of the political problems, the corruption of office corruption.
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 1: And and I think this is actually probably is what
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 1: made it so hard to stop Trump, is that where
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 1: do you start, right, It's such a target rich environment
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 1: when it comes to him that I you know, I've
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 1: always thought that that it's it's not a strategy, but
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 1: it happens to help him, that he so sprays the
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 1: entire sort of area with corruption that you're like, well,
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 1: am I focused on the pay for play on pardons
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 1: or the personal enrichment on crypto or what he's doing
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 1: over here when it comes to I, you know, it
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 1: is in some ways, and I don't know whether this
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 1: is an indictment of our media ecosystem. But I feel
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 1: like that's also part of the challenge of trying to
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 1: concentrate the American mind on how this corruption is sort
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 1: of upending the entire system.
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I I I mean, look, I mean, the internet
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 2: only has so much much bandwidth, the media has only
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 2: so much bandwidth, and our brains have only so much bandwidth.
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 2: And yes, by basically giving everyone the green light to
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 2: do the worst things in the world, Okay, by by
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 2: setting off.
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 1: The we could do an entire five hours and just
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 1: how rfk JR is destroying an entire generation of kids. Yes,
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 1: we can do.
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 2: We could talk about you know, I mean, if you
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 2: wanted to, if we wanted to make a list of
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 2: impeachable offenses and start kind of tallying up, we could.
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 2: We could We could you know, do this for several hours,
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 2: and then we'd have to have we'd have to break
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 2: and and and and we'll figure out all the things
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 2: we've missed as I find throw darts, pick something, I
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 2: don't care. But the whole thing in totality is there
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 2: is no question we have a government that does not
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 2: give a shit about what the law is and thinks
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 2: that it's making up the law and thinks that its
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 2: purpose is to serve one man, even though that man
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 2: has taken a oath of office to to to to
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 2: execute faithfully the laws and constitution of the United States,
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 2: and he doesn't do that. He doesn't give a fuck
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 2: about that. He couldn't tell you what the laws and
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 2: the constitution of the United States. He still thinks, as
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 2: he said in his first term, that Article two allows
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 2: me to do whatever I want. Okay, that's that's the
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 2: case for impeachment right there. Okay, you you just you
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 2: could you just find fifty five examples of what he's done.
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 2: You could just you could, you know, it's like, there's
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 2: no It's like in law, we have this thing called
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 2: summary judgment, where basically the facts are not disputed.
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 1: The facts these are not dista.
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 2: There are not disputed facts anymore. And and and and
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 2: that's if we and again, if we cannot do this
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 2: now here and now throw out and we have to
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 2: throw out the impeachment clauses, be throwing out the patrult,
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 2: which is effectively throwing out the one last check that
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 2: the Congress has to guard its own legislative power on
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 2: an Article woman, which means we're throwing out Article one,
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 2: which means we're throwing out the entire structure of the
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 2: Constitution and throwing out the rule of law and democracy
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 2: all at once if we do not do this, So
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 2: I'm race for impeachment and I don't. I think it's irrefutable,
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 2: and you know I don't. And again it's like, let
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 2: me rant.
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 1: From just go ahead on more.
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like, it's not a political game, it's not
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 2: political calculus anymore. It is a matter of survival. It's
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 2: a moral it's the moral obligation that people commit to
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 2: when they swear an oath to the Constitution as members
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 2: of Congress.
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 1: Do you think your toughest, look do you? If you win,
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 1: you obviously are going to believe voters gave you this mandate.
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 1: The person you're going to have to convince of this
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 1: first is a tem Jeffries. Have you had this conversation
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 1: with him?
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 2: No? I haven't. I haven't spoken with with hopefully Speaker Jeffery's.
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 1: Right, Do you have what's your mind is the best
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 1: strategy to get him to accede to this, because he's
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 1: gonna have a lot of donors that tell him one thing.
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 1: He's gonna have a lot of I mean, here, here's
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 1: my calculus.
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 2: Here, I get why politically somebody would be not taking
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 2: this position. Now, okay, because it's a it's a big tent.
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 2: There's a lot going on in the tent, a lot
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 2: in flux. But the two things will change. One is
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 2: I firmly believe that there will be a democratic House
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 2: of Representatives come January third, twenty seven. Two is in
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 2: the next eleven months, Trump is going to do stuffed
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 2: it will make We haven't even foreseen that's worse than
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 2: what he did during his first thirteen months, because it's
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 2: just it. Just know what the trend line is.
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 1: As I like to quote Haley Barber, good gets better
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 1: and bad gets worse.
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 2: Bad gets worse, and he only gets worse. He's a
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 2: He's a malignant narcissist, the narcisistic sociopath.
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 1: At any shrink that's not gonna change.
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 2: Only they never change, and they only get worse, particularly
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 2: when they get older and more.
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 1: You know, Oh, the filter is definitely whatever filter existed
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 1: in There.
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 2: Are no checks because he surrounded himself, you know, the
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 2: first term, he surrounded himself with some fairly smart people
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 2: here and there.
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 1: Okay, well, he did, and Mike Penn sort of, uh
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 1: did a lot more to protect us than we fully
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 1: appreciated it.
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, and and and and and General Kelly and you know, these.
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 1: Those were you know, they were they were patriots, they
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 1: were they were you know they they you.
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 2: Know, it's you can't work for Donald Trump without compromising
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 2: yourself somehow. But at the same time, if they weren't there,
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 2: we would have had what we have today.
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 1: I always say this about people that work for tru
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 1: bar even bar right. No, no, no, no, but this
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 1: is every and this has been true. I've studied, I've
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 1: gone back, and I've gone deep unto Trump on. You know,
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 1: he never keeps an inner circle more than about five
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 1: or six years. It always rotates because he always throws
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 1: these people away. He always throws everybody away.
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 2: And why people don't think that they're going to be
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 2: the next on the.
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 1: BA They won't be next. I always want to tell
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 1: Marco Rubio Heylo, Marco, when when the when the public
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 1: goes south on one of these international adventures. Maybe it's Iron,
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 1: maybe it's Venezuela, maybe it's Cuba. You're getting the blame
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 1: for this. You're the magabus is going.
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 2: To go Hungarian citizen has been worked for orbon.
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 1: I don't know, I want to go to something bigger
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 1: because you're you're at your you're I'm obsessed with the
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 1: fact that the reason our politics deteriorated over the last
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 1: forty years, arguably since the fall of the Berlin Wall,
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 1: basically since the Cold War, has because it is because
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 1: of the weakness of Congress. That Congress, right, they continue
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 1: to sort of not do their job. And what it
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 1: did was I find it interesting, why did you join
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 1: the conservative legal movement? You really joined because Congress didn't
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 1: know what the hell it was doing.
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 2: I joined it.
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 1: And so well, no, let me let me just finish
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 1: here in my framing because and so what it did
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 1: was it made the courts. Because the article, the guys
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 1: in charge of Article one failed to sort of respond
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 1: to the public. People felt they had no choice but
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 1: go to the courts, go to the courts for reproductive rights,
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 1: go to the courts to open up to desegregate schools.
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 1: The fact that Congress wouldn't do its job to desegregate schools,
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 1: to protect people's voting rights, to protect women's reproductive rights,
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 1: people had to go to the courts. So everything became
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 1: about the courts and the.
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 2: Only way Congress courts, and then and then the question
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 2: who put all of this ship in the court's hands?
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 1: Okay, Congress failing to be definitive on its.
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 2: Right, but we have represent No, this is the point
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 2: that So the point is is that.
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 1: What you're identifying and circling and it gets it a
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 1: bigger question that I'm obsessed with. How do we strength?
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 1: There's are two things I think we need to do right.
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 1: I'm you know, I gave a lot of credit to
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 1: Don Bacon for co sponsoring the pardon constitutional amendment that's
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 1: been introduced. I don't know do you know about this?
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 1: So Oluski Johnny o'luski is a Democratic Member of Congress
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 1: from Maryland, fairly new member. He introduced a bill basically
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 1: a pardon Nullification Act kind of, and he wants to
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 1: introduce it as a constitutional amendment that if twenty members
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 1: of the House five members of the Senate object to
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 1: a presidential pardon and then then they can be brought
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 1: to the floor. Two thirds of Congress basically can overturn
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 1: the same way you'd overturn a veto. But it's a
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 1: constitutional amendment and Don Bacon became the first. You know, look,
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 1: I have a lot of other ideas and how for that.
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 2: That's fine, I would frankly make it less than two
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 2: thirds a.
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 1: I agree, and I think I I could make a
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 1: case of just repealing the entire presidential pardon for individual
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 1: I might come up with a party board.
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 2: Chris put the power power of pardon in Congress to
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 2: designate a pardon board like.
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 1: They had a pardon board. Exactly. You could do two
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 1: most senior members of the court, attorney general, president, vice president, speaker,
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 1: pro tem, et cetera.
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 1: And it made me think that maybe, just like during
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 1: the turn of the twentieth century, that we might be
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 1: in an era where people are focused on Okay, we
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 1: need to remodel our democracy a little bit.
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 1: One hundred years ago, we realized we had to tax
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 1: these robber barons, so we did the income tax. We
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 1: had to make sure we had a democracy for everybody,
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 1: so we got rid of we We we let women,
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 1: we gave women the right to vote, and then we
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 1: uh uh, and then we decided we we better directly
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 1: elect senators because state politicians were so corrupt. It was
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 1: all being so, what do we need to do in
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 1: our constitution today to sort of deep to sort of
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 1: trump proof going forward, like because that's a conversation I
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 1: think we also need to have, is how do we
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 1: proof our constitution?
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's something I talked about when I first announced,
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 2: which was I want to be in Congress for two reasons.
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 2: One is accountability, which includes investigating and impeaching and removing.
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 2: And I'm really talking more about that these days because
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 2: of how bad things have gotten. But the second is,
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 2: and hopefully this will be a second of my two
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 2: terms in Congress, as you mentioned, would be a reconstruction,
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 2: a kind of modern American reconstruction. And I think all
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 2: of these things, you know, I mean, you know how
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 2: hard it is to amend the Constitution, so a lot
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 2: of things will have to be done from a statutory standpoint.
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 2: I mean, I would love to see this pardon constitutional
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 2: amendment pass. It's going to be hard because again it's
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 2: you know, it's a process that is got to be
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 2: two thirds. There isn't three quarters of the states. But
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 2: you know, I'm all for that, And but we also
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 2: have to focus on statutory things that can be done,
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 2: for example with pardons. You know, Congress could pass a
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 2: law requiring disclosure of and this requiring and creating a
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 2: body that investigates the circumstances that uh that let lead
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 2: to a partner and so that we have a full
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 2: disclosure of how a pardon came about. If it's not
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 2: through the regular process, then has been adhere to for
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 2: years in the Justice Department, from the Pardon Office, and
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 2: it's some you know, somebody contacts correctly.
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 1: As we all learn, what Trump has gotten all of
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 1: us to realize is, don't assume norms can come back.
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 1: You're going to have to legislate norms correct.
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 2: And legislating norms. The unwritten rules about interring Justice Department,
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 2: they have to be codified, and they have to and
• 1:29:02
  Speaker 2: there have to be penalties for people who violate them.
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 2: Maybe not the president because the president, you know, it's
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 2: a problem of powers and this fucking immunity decision went
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 2: too far. But everybody else, you know, if if you're
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 2: if you're participants, everybody else can be regulated. Congress is
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 2: the man, I mean, Congress has the power to do this. Okay,
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 2: The duty ultimately, in fact, the executive is to enforce
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 2: an execution laws enacted by Congress. Congress gets to set
• 1:29:33
  Speaker 2: the rules, which goes back to your point about how
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 2: Congress has been basically defaulting on its obligation to set
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 2: the rules for a very very long time on many
• 1:29:41
  Speaker 2: many things. So again there has to be like, once
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 2: we get rid of the current circumstance, mm hmm, we
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 2: have to really focus on reconstructing and and and reconstructing
• 1:29:59
  Speaker 2: our legal and political system at the federal level by
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 2: codifying these norms that involve the Justice Department and everything else.
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 2: And so that's hard, but job one has to be
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 2: we have to get to a position where we don't
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 2: have these these people, these corrupt and evil people running
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 2: the government for their own personal satisfaction and for the
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 2: satisfaction and grift and profit and ego of one evil,
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 2: stupid man.
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 1: One of the pushbacks you're going to get is this
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 1: idea of like, Okay, if you succeed, don't we just
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 1: embed you know that everything is just going to be,
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 1: that this is basically a cold civil war that will continue,
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 1: that that there's going to be no detent, There's not
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 1: you know, And look, I don't know the answer to
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 1: this question other than I always say the American voters
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 1: figure this out over time, and they're going to figure
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 1: this out. I'm going to trust them. I just don't
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 1: know how many people have to die or voters figure
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 1: it out.
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 2: Here's the metaphor that just popped into my head. Okay,
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 2: what was the name of that pocket in Southeast Korea? When?
• 1:31:24
  Speaker 2: When when the Allies got pushed all the way back before?
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, that's where we are. Okay, and we're all
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 2: we're almost done here. We're running. Our backs are to
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 2: the Sea of Japan or whatever body of water is there.
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 2: We don't have much more time, and we have to do.
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 1: You know, we have to.
• 1:31:48
  Speaker 2: Engage in politics in a way that has not been
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 2: engaged in because we've ever had to engage in it
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 2: in order to get back to at least the DM
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 2: what the demolishorized. We can't. You know, we're going to
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 2: lose the war to save our democracy if we don't fight.
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 2: And is it gonna Is this all going to resolve
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 2: itself in the next two or four years, I don't know.
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 2: I think there's gonna be a lot of damage to
• 1:32:18
  Speaker 2: the require decades to repair.
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'll tell.
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 2: You we're on that, but we're on the precipice. Now,
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 2: we can't worry about where we're going to be five
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 2: or ten years from now if we don't fight back now.
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 1: No, and I and and I understand that mindset. Here's
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 1: where I struggle. And I'll just use the example of
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 1: the redistricting fight, which is, you know, the Democrats spent
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 1: fifteen years making the case that no, no, no, no,
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 1: we've got to take politics out of this. And obviously
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 1: there's no doubt right that that the Republicans trump abbit
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 1: we're trying a little power game of politics, and it
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 1: was finally all right, if you're going to do that,
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 1: then the Democrats are gonna fight back. And I get it.
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 1: And yet at the same time, I'm uncomfortable with the
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 1: idea that the disenfranchising of voters in Texas, that the
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 1: best way to fight back is to disenfranchise voters in
• 1:33:22
  Speaker 1: California or disenfranchised you know, you get where I'm coming from.
• 1:33:26
  Speaker 2: On this, And it's like, basically, we're doing things that
• 1:33:29
  Speaker 2: we didn't ever want to do.
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 1: Correct, It's like and then of course it just feeds
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 1: into the what about ism and then it actually that
• 1:33:37
  Speaker 1: the the other side will say, well, see they're willing
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 1: to break the rules too, so there are no rules.
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 1: Fuck them.
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 2: Okay, but this is why you know you have to
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 2: you have to win the war to enforce the peace.
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 1: Okay, Well you just tapped into something. Not all Democrats
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 1: believe this is a war, right, is that the problem.
• 1:33:57
  Speaker 2: They need They're gonna they're gonna have to learn. And
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 2: that's and I think this is I mean, I think
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 2: you see people who understand. There are a lot of
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 2: people who do understand in the Democratic Party that this
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 2: is I don't like the word war because it's it
• 1:34:12
  Speaker 2: cannotes violence.
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 1: No, but I'm worried about but we've already had two
• 1:34:16
  Speaker 1: people get killed essentially for political protest.
• 1:34:21
  Speaker 2: Correct, I absolutely, I mean, but you know, it's not
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 2: a civil war.
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 1: It's not that.
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 2: I hope it doesn't become.
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 1: What if Tim Wallas had called in the National Guard.
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 2: No, we are, but again, this is you're absolutely right,
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 2: we are.
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 1: On the mean, we're a lot closer than people want
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 1: to realize.
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 2: Correct, And that's why we can't get fussy about the
• 1:34:44
  Speaker 2: political tactics and the land. You know, I would never
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 2: call them the president, a president of the United States
• 1:34:50
  Speaker 2: of any party, a fucking piece of ship on a
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 2: podcast until today he is a fucking piece of ship. Okay,
• 1:34:58
  Speaker 2: because and this is where we are, aw all right,
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 2: someday I would you know, I want to go back
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 2: to in America where I can't make the case that
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 2: the president is a fucking piece of shit, all right,
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 2: where I would never think of using that language, even
• 1:35:12
  Speaker 2: when he did something bad or she whoever. It is,
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 2: all right, there are moments we have to we are
• 1:35:19
  Speaker 2: to use language. We have to use political legal legal devices,
• 1:35:24
  Speaker 2: including this business. Nothing illegal about what's what? They didn't
• 1:35:27
  Speaker 2: countifford to the courts of upheld and the Supreme Court
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 2: is upheld it.
• 1:35:30
  Speaker 1: Now. They went to the voters. I mean, I will
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 1: give him that. They went to the voters in national
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 1: the voters.
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 2: They did it. And you know, frankly, it's not really
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 2: disenfranchising people. Just you know, it's not dis ef You
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 2: get to vote. You're not being denied the right to
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 2: vote just because you are. You know, your neighbors vote
• 1:35:45
  Speaker 2: the other way, Okay, and.
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 1: No you were not. Look I look at what the Virginia.
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 2: You want to have a portional representation system. Amend the
• 1:35:55
  Speaker 2: freaking constitution. I wouldn't be terrible of course they have
• 1:35:59
  Speaker 2: the problem a crazy multi mull you know, we will know.
• 1:36:03
  Speaker 1: I'm for part I get you to hear something else
• 1:36:07
  Speaker 1: we have Israel and no, no, no, no, we got
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 1: a better. There's a simpler way to solve our congressional map,
• 1:36:12
  Speaker 1: and all it takes is an act of Congress uncap
• 1:36:16
  Speaker 1: the House. The House is too damn small. I know.
• 1:36:19
  Speaker 1: The last thing people think we need or more politicians,
• 1:36:22
  Speaker 1: but congressional districts shouldn't be eight hundred thousand people that
• 1:36:27
  Speaker 1: there's points at that they and I actually believe if
• 1:36:31
  Speaker 1: you essentially and you could put this as a constitutional
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 1: amendment right, which is no congressional district could be more
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 1: than zero point zh three percent of the population, which
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 1: right now would put you in about three hundred and
• 1:36:41
  Speaker 1: fifty four hundred thousand, you'd actually solve the electoral college
• 1:36:45
  Speaker 1: disparity problem immediately, and then you probably minimize the power
• 1:36:51
  Speaker 1: of gerrymandering simply because it's a lot easier to draw
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 1: a community of interest more districts.
• 1:36:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right, districts, and you can't you know, there's.
• 1:37:00
  Speaker 1: Only so many ways you could jerry mander when you
• 1:37:02
  Speaker 1: have more.
• 1:37:02
  Speaker 2: Districts, well, you need AI to do it, but you know,
• 1:37:05
  Speaker 2: to cherry mandering that many districts and they would be
• 1:37:09
  Speaker 2: ridiculous of the dish.
• 1:37:11
  Speaker 1: But but anyway, that's it. Look, that's a that's one
• 1:37:14
  Speaker 1: of my pet issues. I think that if we double
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 1: the size of Congress, we'd also get we'd lower the
• 1:37:20
  Speaker 1: bar of entry, barrier to entry in a financial way,
• 1:37:23
  Speaker 1: and all sorts of things.
• 1:37:25
  Speaker 2: That's an interesting thought. And and and and I see
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 2: your point. The question is can a legislative body function
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 2: with that many people. That's that's the question. I don't
• 1:37:33
  Speaker 2: know the answer to that.
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 1: Does it function now? I mean, you know, and and
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 1: in fact, I'd argue the problem with it is that
• 1:37:39
  Speaker 1: they don't let the body function that only four people
• 1:37:41
  Speaker 1: control Congress.
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not arguing with you on this. I'm just
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 2: I thought it through. I just that's the that's the no.
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 1: I look, and that's the reason why they cap it. Well,
• 1:37:50
  Speaker 1: we don't have enough office space. You know. It's it's
• 1:37:52
  Speaker 1: sort of like almost like you know, like we can
• 1:37:56
  Speaker 1: all you know exactly downtown d C is empty, right you.
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 2: Could you could you could have your laptop and in
• 1:38:02
  Speaker 2: your apartment and be a That means that as your office.
• 1:38:05
  Speaker 2: But anyway, they probably the SaaS will be smaller so
• 1:38:07
  Speaker 2: you wouldn't need it.
• 1:38:08
  Speaker 1: But let me go, let me go at another issue,
• 1:38:10
  Speaker 1: another way to tackle this issue of of sort of
• 1:38:16
  Speaker 1: what do you say to the the Trump voter who's
• 1:38:20
  Speaker 1: not a fan of Trump's character but keeps voting for
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 1: him because they just, you know, they've got this policy
• 1:38:25
  Speaker 1: reason here, policy reason there, and and and I want
• 1:38:29
  Speaker 1: to take I'm going to assume the best that that's
• 1:38:31
  Speaker 1: the reason, that there isn't some hidden thing that they're hiding,
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 1: you know whatever. You know, I think there's some people
• 1:38:36
  Speaker 1: that are there for racist reasons when they're not going
• 1:38:38
  Speaker 1: to say it, but I'm going to set those people aside.
• 1:38:41
  Speaker 1: There are plenty of people just looked at it and said,
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 1: you know what, politics has been terrible. We needed a
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 1: disruptor like Trump. And I'm no fan of him, but
• 1:38:48
  Speaker 1: I'm glad it's making everybody squirm. How do you get
• 1:38:51
  Speaker 1: that voter back in the fold?
• 1:38:54
  Speaker 2: I think that voter is going to get back in
• 1:38:57
  Speaker 2: the fold when the prices or prices of everything go
• 1:39:02
  Speaker 2: up even more than they already have, when they see
• 1:39:06
  Speaker 2: chaos and disorder on the streets which they are seeing
• 1:39:08
  Speaker 2: and they will see more of. I think they're going
• 1:39:11
  Speaker 2: to realize that they're not really you know, for example, immigration,
• 1:39:16
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's like this isn't you know if you
• 1:39:18
  Speaker 2: if you're a restrictionist, an immigration restrictionist relatively speaking of
• 1:39:24
  Speaker 2: the sort that you know you had. I mean, I'm
• 1:39:27
  Speaker 2: old enough to remember in the nineties when Bill Clinton
• 1:39:29
  Speaker 2: created a Commission on Immigration where they were basically it
• 1:39:33
  Speaker 2: was restrictionists and the Chamber, the Republican leading Chamber of
• 1:39:37
  Speaker 2: Commerce opposed the restrictions on immigration. I'm old enough to
• 1:39:40
  Speaker 2: remember that. But you know, no one has, no one
• 1:39:46
  Speaker 2: has done more damage in the long term, For example,
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 2: two restrictionists immigration policies than Donald Trump, because he's associated
• 1:39:55
  Speaker 2: them with this tyranny to the point where even republic
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 2: pilkins who voted for him because they wanted immigration to
• 1:40:04
  Speaker 2: be more restrictive and they wanted more immigration enforcement, are
• 1:40:07
  Speaker 2: repulsed by what they're seeing on their TVs and on
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 2: their phones. So I think that I think that the
• 1:40:18
  Speaker 2: people who are actually thoughtful about policy issues, okay, what
• 1:40:23
  Speaker 2: they are going to come back over and you're going
• 1:40:27
  Speaker 2: to have left the core of the people who have
• 1:40:32
  Speaker 2: the malicious motives, of which there are unfortunately many, but
• 1:40:35
  Speaker 2: not enough to elect a president.
• 1:40:41
  Speaker 1: How did the Republican Party you joined in nineteen eighty
• 1:40:43
  Speaker 1: end up Trump acolytes. Give me some not just a
• 1:40:48
  Speaker 1: broad brush, but give me sort of like I you know,
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 1: when it going now looking backwards, right, you were there,
• 1:40:56
  Speaker 1: you were on the inside.
• 1:40:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that wasn't I but I was practicing law here
• 1:41:00
  Speaker 2: in New York.
• 1:41:01
  Speaker 1: But when I say that, you were at least invited
• 1:41:03
  Speaker 1: to the parties, Okay, and you might have been able
• 1:41:05
  Speaker 1: to get inside the velopt rope.
• 1:41:06
  Speaker 2: But I think.
• 1:41:09
  Speaker 1: Was it always ends justifies the means.
• 1:41:12
  Speaker 2: No, I don't think so. But I do think there
• 1:41:19
  Speaker 2: was this insolarity that was created in the conservative movement.
• 1:41:26
  Speaker 1: Where they.
• 1:41:30
  Speaker 2: Made themselves. I mean, they felt persecuted. They didn't get invited.
• 1:41:36
  Speaker 1: To the victimhood is the is clearly the currency of
• 1:41:39
  Speaker 1: the right.
• 1:41:39
  Speaker 2: Well that's what That's what led us there. I mean,
• 1:41:42
  Speaker 2: you know the feeling. I mean you look at a
• 1:41:45
  Speaker 2: guy like Sam Alito, Okay, he is the most aggrieved
• 1:41:51
  Speaker 2: victim ever to will ever see.
• 1:41:55
  Speaker 1: I mean, by god, I think we'd all trade, we'd
• 1:41:57
  Speaker 1: all love to have the professional career right.
• 1:42:01
  Speaker 2: But he you know, you can just see it in
• 1:42:03
  Speaker 2: his writing and his personality and his and that when
• 1:42:07
  Speaker 2: he does make public comments. You know, these people are
• 1:42:10
  Speaker 2: all deeply, deeply aggrieved and resentful, and they spent years
• 1:42:16
  Speaker 2: kind of resenting people who had different views from them,
• 1:42:21
  Speaker 2: who treated them. I didn't always treat them with respect.
• 1:42:24
  Speaker 2: I'll give them that, But it's not about you. It's
• 1:42:28
  Speaker 2: not about me, it's not about them, it's not about individuals.
• 1:42:32
  Speaker 2: It's about the country. And I think these people, I
• 1:42:35
  Speaker 2: think there's it's a what happened to the Republican Party?
• 1:42:39
  Speaker 2: Was this? And again I might change this is I'm
• 1:42:45
  Speaker 2: just spinning this off here just because it's what's coming
• 1:42:48
  Speaker 2: to my head. And I you know, I would love
• 1:42:50
  Speaker 2: to spend I would love to be in a position
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 2: not running for public office and would this all over,
• 1:42:56
  Speaker 2: be able to think about it and maybe write a
• 1:42:58
  Speaker 2: book about it. But I think it's just a crazy
• 1:43:02
  Speaker 2: form of narcissism where people put their own resentment and
• 1:43:08
  Speaker 2: feelings about how they are not part of this liberal elite,
• 1:43:14
  Speaker 2: and they made that they define themselves that way to
• 1:43:17
  Speaker 2: the point where they oppose everything that the people they
• 1:43:22
  Speaker 2: oppose are for. Right, it's this, it's the freedom of
• 1:43:27
  Speaker 2: speech and democracy and allay, Well.
• 1:43:29
  Speaker 1: We saw it with the Second Amendment. Suddenly where they
• 1:43:34
  Speaker 1: where they alex gun on his hand?
• 1:43:37
  Speaker 2: Where does it say in the Second Amendment that liberal
• 1:43:39
  Speaker 2: protesters get to carry guns? Doesn't say that? I mean,
• 1:43:42
  Speaker 2: come on, I mean, but they're right.
• 1:43:45
  Speaker 1: Well, it's funny to me that your that should be
• 1:43:47
  Speaker 1: the caution cautionary tale for the left, meaning be careful,
• 1:43:52
  Speaker 1: don't get the same virue. My biggest concern about Trump
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 1: coming back for a second term and the real damage
• 1:43:58
  Speaker 1: is that it was going to change the psiche of
• 1:44:01
  Speaker 1: the political opponents of Trump, which is where suddenly where
• 1:44:05
  Speaker 1: you just well, we got to oppose everything the guy's
• 1:44:07
  Speaker 1: doing because he can't be seen as doing anything right.
• 1:44:10
  Speaker 1: And I worry about that.
• 1:44:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, look, I mean, I I don't. I guess maybe
• 1:44:18
  Speaker 2: because I'm a little more process oriented in some ways
• 1:44:21
  Speaker 2: than a lot of other people.
• 1:44:24
  Speaker 1: Well, I always say I'm an incrementalist and a bit
• 1:44:27
  Speaker 1: still wanting. I still don't trust institutions, but I trust
• 1:44:31
  Speaker 1: that a good institution with better incentives is better than
• 1:44:34
  Speaker 1: any And that's.
• 1:44:35
  Speaker 2: The reason why sort of like as I mean, I'm
• 1:44:39
  Speaker 2: an incrementalist too, which is why I was a conservative
• 1:44:43
  Speaker 2: and okay, because I thought that was.
• 1:44:46
  Speaker 1: My father's definition of conservatism. Hey, I'm for He used
• 1:44:49
  Speaker 1: to say, I want the Democrats to come up with
• 1:44:51
  Speaker 1: the ideas and the Republicans to manage them. His theory
• 1:44:54
  Speaker 1: was I'd rather have the empathy of the left and
• 1:44:58
  Speaker 1: the you know, managerial of the That was sort of
• 1:45:00
  Speaker 1: his mindset. Yeah, something to that.
• 1:45:03
  Speaker 2: There's something to that, and that's that's actually the way
• 1:45:06
  Speaker 2: a healthy political system should function. Some people are pushing
• 1:45:10
  Speaker 2: for something and other people say.
• 1:45:11
  Speaker 1: Wow, not so fast, slow down, let's slow down, let's
• 1:45:14
  Speaker 1: think about.
• 1:45:15
  Speaker 2: This, right, because democracy is a dialogue. It's a dialogue
• 1:45:19
  Speaker 2: between the people and their elected leaders. It's a dialogue
• 1:45:23
  Speaker 2: among the people. It's a dialogue between the elected leaders.
• 1:45:27
  Speaker 2: And that's how we you know, people are pushing for
• 1:45:31
  Speaker 2: change and other people saying, well, let's slow this down
• 1:45:35
  Speaker 2: or maybe where the change should be different? And you can't.
• 1:45:39
  Speaker 2: But what we have now is basically a nihilistic effort
• 1:45:45
  Speaker 2: to destroy everything. And that's what Trump. You know, there's
• 1:45:50
  Speaker 2: just this nihilistic, narcissistic animus among what is now, you know,
• 1:45:58
  Speaker 2: the the the what's the name of the Ombu given.
• 1:46:04
  Speaker 2: He's an example of that advance. And all these people there,
• 1:46:07
  Speaker 2: there's just a nihilistic disc right and and and Miller.
• 1:46:13
  Speaker 2: They want to destroy everything because they hate it so much.
• 1:46:16
  Speaker 2: They developed this sort of irrational hatred of everything that
• 1:46:21
  Speaker 2: exists because you know, it represents the enemy, which is liberalism.
• 1:46:28
  Speaker 2: And it's not about that, it's it's it. That's not conservatism,
• 1:46:34
  Speaker 2: that's that's that's nihilism. And you know, these institutions that
• 1:46:38
  Speaker 2: took generations to create, whether or not you would have
• 1:46:41
  Speaker 2: created them in the first place. Right, there's a reason
• 1:46:45
  Speaker 2: why they're there. Okay, there's a there are purposes that
• 1:46:49
  Speaker 2: they serve. Yes, maybe they can be reformed, maybe at
• 1:46:51
  Speaker 2: some point they can be replaced or modified as they
• 1:46:55
  Speaker 2: should be over time. But to take a sledgehammer to
• 1:46:59
  Speaker 2: everything that's not conservative, it's insane. And you know, the
• 1:47:03
  Speaker 2: truth of the matter is today it's like, you know,
• 1:47:06
  Speaker 2: my kind of the Democrats are the conservatives today, which
• 1:47:10
  Speaker 2: is why incrementalists today in a lot of ways, and
• 1:47:14
  Speaker 2: and and and they they they're the people who are
• 1:47:17
  Speaker 2: saying we can't do that. Hold on, what about what
• 1:47:19
  Speaker 2: about the people that it's going to affect, what about
• 1:47:22
  Speaker 2: the what about the you know? And and that's basically
• 1:47:25
  Speaker 2: what you know. I mean, that's a way of looking
• 1:47:27
  Speaker 2: at what I'm doing today. That's why I'm a Democrat today.
• 1:47:32
  Speaker 2: I couldn't be anything else.
• 1:47:43
  Speaker 1: I want to get you out of here on something
• 1:47:45
  Speaker 1: that I've been and it gets it to how to speak,
• 1:47:51
  Speaker 1: how to convince some Trump voters that that there's a
• 1:47:55
  Speaker 1: better way. The George W. Bush essay about George Washington,
• 1:48:01
  Speaker 1: yea that I loved it. I thought it was a
• 1:48:05
  Speaker 1: very clever subtweet of the current occupant in the White House.
• 1:48:12
  Speaker 1: I saw some of our friends and I'm going to
• 1:48:14
  Speaker 1: say that on including including uh at where you've previously
• 1:48:20
  Speaker 1: were hung your hat every now and then at the bulwark,
• 1:48:24
  Speaker 1: you know. And they're not alone of people that vacillate. Well,
• 1:48:27
  Speaker 1: George W. Bush doesn't speak out enough. He should have
• 1:48:30
  Speaker 1: more directly taken on Trump. And I look at Bush
• 1:48:34
  Speaker 1: and I think, you know, the guy realizes it becomes
• 1:48:37
  Speaker 1: at Trump the wrong way. He could weirdly strengthen Trump
• 1:48:40
  Speaker 1: and it doesn't help. And I think he thinks about
• 1:48:43
  Speaker 1: those things. And I think about that essay and go,
• 1:48:46
  Speaker 1: I think a lot of people who voted Trump voted
• 1:48:48
  Speaker 1: for Trump will read the essay because it doesn't mention Trump,
• 1:48:52
  Speaker 1: and maybe a few people it will break through. The
• 1:48:55
  Speaker 1: entire essay was about Trump and the fact that its so.
• 1:48:59
  Speaker 1: I loved it, and I thought, what do you make
• 1:49:01
  Speaker 1: of the criticism that it wasn't more than he didn't
• 1:49:04
  Speaker 1: take a sledgehammer?
• 1:49:06
  Speaker 2: Es said, I'm okay with not taking a sledgeham. I
• 1:49:08
  Speaker 2: just think he should have written that a few years ago.
• 1:49:11
  Speaker 2: That's fair, Okay, that's the problem I have. He should
• 1:49:15
  Speaker 2: have written it in twenty.
• 1:49:16
  Speaker 1: But you understand where they come down.
• 1:49:17
  Speaker 2: I understand understand it. Not everybody can take the Conway
• 1:49:21
  Speaker 2: sledgehammer approach.
• 1:49:22
  Speaker 1: We don't well, and with Bush it could boomerang and
• 1:49:25
  Speaker 1: help Trump weirdly, and he didn't want to do that.
• 1:49:28
  Speaker 2: No, that's absolutely right. But you know there are things
• 1:49:31
  Speaker 2: that he could have said that, don't you know. I
• 1:49:34
  Speaker 2: have no problem with people. Look, I started out when
• 1:49:38
  Speaker 2: I went off the reservation in twenty eighteen, or the
• 1:49:42
  Speaker 2: reservation left me.
• 1:49:43
  Speaker 1: I was going to say, yeah, I don't know what
• 1:49:45
  Speaker 1: which came first.
• 1:49:47
  Speaker 2: I can't left the camp in the camp, the camp
• 1:49:48
  Speaker 2: left me, or whatever it is.
• 1:49:49
  Speaker 1: You shut Yeah, they took away your pass and whatever.
• 1:49:52
  Speaker 2: Whatever metaphor you want to use. I started out by subtweeting, remember, yeah,
• 1:49:57
  Speaker 2: like I would just like, you know, here I am,
• 1:49:59
  Speaker 2: I got my phone. Oh here's a nice op ed
• 1:50:02
  Speaker 2: saying that Trump is, uh, you know, destroying.
• 1:50:05
  Speaker 1: The justice for interesting read.
• 1:50:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, what what is what is Kelly and Conway's
• 1:50:10
  Speaker 2: husband doing retweeting this liberal who.
• 1:50:13
  Speaker 1: Is writing this? You know?
• 1:50:14
  Speaker 2: And it was like that was my way of doing it,
• 1:50:17
  Speaker 2: you know, And and I have no problem with people
• 1:50:22
  Speaker 2: taking different approaches. I think the criticism that I would
• 1:50:26
  Speaker 2: still have of George Herban Walker Bush now George Walker
• 1:50:31
  Speaker 2: Bush is he could have done a little more earlier, Okay,
• 1:50:38
  Speaker 2: and I wish he had done that. But I completely
• 1:50:41
  Speaker 2: respect and what he did with this essay, and he
• 1:50:46
  Speaker 2: does more of it, and maybe maybe he's sort of,
• 1:50:50
  Speaker 2: you know, doing the path that I did, where you
• 1:50:52
  Speaker 2: just sort of like, don't you know?
• 1:50:54
  Speaker 1: Well, as I tell my wife this, I remember early
• 1:50:56
  Speaker 1: on in trump Er, you'll you'll like, I think you'll
• 1:50:59
  Speaker 1: appreciate this story. I said, be careful, assuming they're all bad.
• 1:51:04
  Speaker 1: I said, somebody you don't like might be the hero
• 1:51:06
  Speaker 1: of this story. And you know, and of course, and
• 1:51:09
  Speaker 1: then I joked three years later, she's giving money to
• 1:51:11
  Speaker 1: Liz Cheney. And and so I've always said that everybody
• 1:51:16
  Speaker 1: has a line that Trump eventually crosses. It's just that
• 1:51:19
  Speaker 1: everybody's line is in a different place.
• 1:51:21
  Speaker 2: And that's right. I mean, and Liz Cheney's example, even
• 1:51:24
  Speaker 2: Marjorie Taylor Green.
• 1:51:26
  Speaker 1: Well, that's my point. I think it's it actually proves
• 1:51:29
  Speaker 1: the point your line was crossed sooner Liz Cheney. It
• 1:51:35
  Speaker 1: took to January sixth. That's no, I don't, I'm not.
• 1:51:38
  Speaker 1: I don't think she should be criticized for not getting
• 1:51:41
  Speaker 1: there sooner, is my point. Like, I think the only
• 1:51:43
  Speaker 1: way you're going to win converts is to welcome them,
• 1:51:46
  Speaker 1: don't you resolute?
• 1:51:48
  Speaker 2: I absolutely agree with that.
• 1:51:50
  Speaker 1: And you know, don't say, oh, what took you so long?
• 1:51:52
  Speaker 2: That's why I don't. I would never criticize Liz Cheney
• 1:51:54
  Speaker 2: for for for for voting for Trump twice, okay, because
• 1:52:00
  Speaker 2: you know, she thought wrongly that we could kind of
• 1:52:03
  Speaker 2: get by with him, and then she their line was crossed,
• 1:52:06
  Speaker 2: and thank god it was crossed because she did, you know,
• 1:52:10
  Speaker 2: I mean, she what she did in after twenty after
• 1:52:14
  Speaker 2: January sixth, was just and nobody else could.
• 1:52:17
  Speaker 1: Have done that, right, And that's right. She gave up,
• 1:52:20
  Speaker 1: she gave she gave backbone to the Democrats. It doesn't
• 1:52:24
  Speaker 1: happen without her.
• 1:52:25
  Speaker 2: And I've been critical somewhat of my Pence right because
• 1:52:29
  Speaker 2: my view of Mike Pence is, yes, he deserves enormous
• 1:52:33
  Speaker 2: credit for what he did in January of twenty twenty one.
• 1:52:38
  Speaker 2: But actually I think she had a moral obligation to
• 1:52:43
  Speaker 2: concede the election in November or December at the very
• 1:52:48
  Speaker 2: latest when the Electoral College voted in mid December, because
• 1:52:52
  Speaker 2: he knew it was over, and he should have said so.
• 1:52:56
  Speaker 2: And you shouldn't have been afraid of.
• 1:52:57
  Speaker 1: Donald, you know, and you know who I was calculation.
• 1:53:00
  Speaker 2: I'm saying, I can't be your friend anymore, right, like, okay,
• 1:53:05
  Speaker 2: but again I wouldn't. I don't. That's the I don't.
• 1:53:10
  Speaker 2: I welcome you welcome the things that he's saying right now.
• 1:53:15
  Speaker 2: And and I think absolutely, you're right. We have to,
• 1:53:19
  Speaker 2: you know, And there are people, there are people on
• 1:53:20
  Speaker 2: the Democratic side who basically say, oh, you you voted
• 1:53:25
  Speaker 2: for Trump in twenty sixteen.
• 1:53:26
  Speaker 1: It's like, okay, you're part of the problem. You should
• 1:53:28
  Speaker 1: have the problem I.
• 1:53:29
  Speaker 2: Shouldn't be heard from. It's like, okay, well you know
• 1:53:31
  Speaker 2: you're not going to fix the problem. If you, if you,
• 1:53:34
  Speaker 2: if you know you when somebody toms over to your
• 1:53:38
  Speaker 2: side and tells.
• 1:53:39
  Speaker 1: You you were right. Yes, hate the wind, take the wind. No,
• 1:53:44
  Speaker 1: it drives me nuts where where people want to like,
• 1:53:47
  Speaker 1: I can't believe I have to say, look, just accept that.
• 1:53:50
  Speaker 1: Marjorie Taylor Green Now you know, I actually think she's
• 1:53:54
  Speaker 1: a fascinating.
• 1:53:55
  Speaker 2: Oh, totally Robert Draper piece.
• 1:53:58
  Speaker 1: It's why No, I mean, here's the thing we all
• 1:54:01
  Speaker 1: dream of a citizen legislature. She was a woman who
• 1:54:04
  Speaker 1: owned a gym. She didn't know much about politics, saw
• 1:54:08
  Speaker 1: how Trump did it, and thought, oh this is I
• 1:54:10
  Speaker 1: guess it works this way. I'll try it. And then
• 1:54:13
  Speaker 1: eventually Trump, like I always tell people troub, will eventually
• 1:54:16
  Speaker 1: let you down because he lets everybody down if you
• 1:54:19
  Speaker 1: name it, including his father and mother. He lets every
• 1:54:23
  Speaker 1: single person in his life down. This is what he does.
• 1:54:26
  Speaker 1: And she gets there and I've seen some people say yeah,
• 1:54:30
  Speaker 1: but with her, and it's just like, why don't you
• 1:54:33
  Speaker 1: respect her journey? Because guess what she did? Disagree with
• 1:54:36
  Speaker 1: you on some ideological concerns, and yeah, she is a
• 1:54:40
  Speaker 1: bit more of an isolationist and probably a bit more
• 1:54:43
  Speaker 1: of a nationalist, but she also appears to be a constitutionalist.
• 1:54:47
  Speaker 1: I will take anybody who's a constitutionalist, regardless of where
• 1:54:51
  Speaker 1: they stand on me on a variety of issues.
• 1:54:55
  Speaker 2: And it doesn't mean you can't be critical of her
• 1:54:57
  Speaker 2: for the crazy some of the crazy things she said
• 1:55:00
  Speaker 2: corrects and stuff like that, but you can say, thank God,
• 1:55:04
  Speaker 2: she's doing the right thing now and and you know
• 1:55:08
  Speaker 2: you can't and you shouldn't reject the fact that she
• 1:55:11
  Speaker 2: wants to basically make things better in much the same
• 1:55:15
  Speaker 2: way that we do. And that's like I welcome that.
• 1:55:18
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's like you don't win, you know, I mean,
• 1:55:21
  Speaker 2: what if the Allies, I mean the Allies, were they
• 1:55:23
  Speaker 2: going to say, Italy.
• 1:55:25
  Speaker 1: Joseph Stalin, we got it.
• 1:55:28
  Speaker 2: Let's let's you know, we're not going to let you
• 1:55:30
  Speaker 2: switch sides.
• 1:55:31
  Speaker 1: I mean, come on, I mean, right right, we could
• 1:55:33
  Speaker 1: have easily said screw you. You guys weren't with us
• 1:55:35
  Speaker 1: at the beginning. Half you Stalin, that's not that we'd
• 1:55:38
  Speaker 1: still be fighting the war and you're.
• 1:55:41
  Speaker 2: That's not how that's that's Look, the human part of
• 1:55:45
  Speaker 2: the human condition, and part is that we we fuck up,
• 1:55:49
  Speaker 2: We make mistakes, we make judgments, don't see the truth
• 1:55:53
  Speaker 2: as it really is. Sometimes we deny, we convince ourselves.
• 1:55:58
  Speaker 2: But part of you know, maturity and character, and frankly
• 1:56:04
  Speaker 2: of the kind of spirit that should animate a democracy
• 1:56:10
  Speaker 2: is the humility of knowing that you're not always right
• 1:56:14
  Speaker 2: and that there are times where you have to admit
• 1:56:17
  Speaker 2: that you are wrong. And that is what we need
• 1:56:21
  Speaker 2: to foster among many people who voted for Trump once,
• 1:56:25
  Speaker 2: twice or thrice today and that you know, it's like
• 1:56:29
  Speaker 2: that Saturday Nights Live skit that we saw a couple
• 1:56:32
  Speaker 2: of weeks ago with the mom. See that one where
• 1:56:35
  Speaker 2: the mom is saying, I have something to say. I
• 1:56:39
  Speaker 2: want you not to say anything in response, and she's
• 1:56:42
  Speaker 2: like kind of trying to force out that I may
• 1:56:45
  Speaker 2: have been wrong in thinking that Donald Trump was, you know,
• 1:56:49
  Speaker 2: good for the country. And the kids go, well, Mom,
• 1:56:52
  Speaker 2: don't shut up. Don't we have to be those kids,
• 1:56:57
  Speaker 2: We have to be those kids. And the kids are like, no,
• 1:57:00
  Speaker 2: they said, we talked, no, no, stop, I told you none.
• 1:57:04
  Speaker 1: Nobody likes to be told I told you.
• 1:57:06
  Speaker 2: Nobody likes to be told that they're wrong. Nobody likes
• 1:57:08
  Speaker 2: to be admitted, to admit that they're wrong. But we
• 1:57:11
  Speaker 2: need to make it easier for people because it really
• 1:57:14
  Speaker 2: is a lot of why trump Ism has persisted is
• 1:57:18
  Speaker 2: that people he led people so far astray that in
• 1:57:24
  Speaker 2: order for them to recognize how far morally they strayed,
• 1:57:30
  Speaker 2: they have to look themselves in a mirror and admit
• 1:57:34
  Speaker 2: how bad he is, which makes them feel bad about themselves.
• 1:57:38
  Speaker 2: So they do and everything, and so they believe them.
• 1:57:41
  Speaker 2: They leave News maxon and Fox News on so they
• 1:57:44
  Speaker 2: don't have to hear the bad things that are happening.
• 1:57:48
  Speaker 2: And you know, sooner or later at the grocery store,
• 1:57:51
  Speaker 2: they're going to figure out, oh, this isn't marting on.
• 1:57:53
  Speaker 1: So well, well, I'm tempted to give you the dumb
• 1:57:59
  Speaker 1: New York City question and saying like your favorite bagel joint,
• 1:58:01
  Speaker 1: Metzer Yankees and all that nonsense. But you know, in
• 1:58:06
  Speaker 1: all seriousness, when you're out there, what are the you know,
• 1:58:10
  Speaker 1: and I'm going to get you out here on this,
• 1:58:12
  Speaker 1: what are the questions voters ask of you that are
• 1:58:14
  Speaker 1: not about Donald Trump?
• 1:58:18
  Speaker 2: You know, the ones who come up to me talk
• 1:58:20
  Speaker 2: about Trump.
• 1:58:21
  Speaker 1: I think, well, that would bet you know.
• 1:58:26
  Speaker 2: I mean, I can tell you you know, there absolutely is.
• 1:58:31
  Speaker 2: I mean, there's a reason why Zorim Mumdani is the
• 1:58:35
  Speaker 2: Mayor of New York. There are a lot and there's
• 1:58:37
  Speaker 2: a reason. You know, it's not just in there are
• 1:58:41
  Speaker 2: problems with how you know, I mean, we're living in
• 1:58:44
  Speaker 2: an era where healthcare is becoming this the rap most
• 1:58:47
  Speaker 2: rapidly growing industry in New York.
• 1:58:51
  Speaker 1: You know, it's our job, growth engine, the only job.
• 1:58:54
  Speaker 2: Because we're all getting older and because we're getting older,
• 1:58:56
  Speaker 2: we're getting sicker, and there's higher demand for you know,
• 1:59:02
  Speaker 2: medical services and medicines. And you know, when you have
• 1:59:08
  Speaker 2: increased demand and supply isn't necessarily you know, it's it's
• 1:59:13
  Speaker 2: creating costs that people can't afford them. We need to
• 1:59:15
  Speaker 2: figure out a way to make the necessary care affordable. Absolutely,
• 1:59:21
  Speaker 2: and obviously that's something that greatly confer the the the
• 1:59:25
  Speaker 2: the refusal to fund the subsidies, and and and that
• 1:59:30
  Speaker 2: and and so on. You know, people are concerned about that.
• 1:59:35
  Speaker 2: They're concerned about the cost of housing in New York City. Absolutely,
• 1:59:38
  Speaker 2: it's crazy. It's always been crazy expensive. But it's you know,
• 1:59:40
  Speaker 2: it's you know, it's not it's you know, you need
• 1:59:44
  Speaker 2: more supply. But you know, a lot of these problems,
• 1:59:48
  Speaker 2: at least from the standpoint of someone from from a
• 1:59:51
  Speaker 2: federal legislative level position, can't be dealt with until he's gone.
• 1:59:58
  Speaker 2: And and you know, and there are things like, for example,
• 1:59:59
  Speaker 2: who who who who? Who took out the salt deduction?
• 2:00:04
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 2:00:04
  Speaker 2: Who is Donald Trump?
• 2:00:06
  Speaker 1: There was?
• 2:00:06
  Speaker 2: That was like his first effort to punish blue states, Okay,
• 2:00:12
  Speaker 2: and and and New York, New York City, New York State,
• 2:00:15
  Speaker 2: New Jersey. They have been paying the price ever since.
• 2:00:19
  Speaker 2: But we can't you know, restoring the salt deduction. How
• 2:00:22
  Speaker 2: are you gonna do that? With Donald Trump being president?
• 2:00:25
  Speaker 2: Can't do it? So my answer to everything is I
• 2:00:29
  Speaker 2: feel your pain, I understand your issue. I agree we
• 2:00:34
  Speaker 2: have to do something about it. I may not agree,
• 2:00:36
  Speaker 2: for example, with Medicare for all, I may support a
• 2:00:39
  Speaker 2: different approach than Medicare for all or whatever, but I'm
• 2:00:44
  Speaker 2: with you that that's what that's what we need to do,
• 2:00:47
  Speaker 2: because you know, we are in we we it's become
• 2:00:51
  Speaker 2: an expectation and duty of government throughout the Western world
• 2:00:56
  Speaker 2: to make sure that healthcare is affordable. But we can't
• 2:00:59
  Speaker 2: do it until he's gone, and we have a government
• 2:01:01
  Speaker 2: that actually is rational and is not a criminal enterprise
• 2:01:07
  Speaker 2: designed to fall to support and the financial and egotistical
• 2:01:13
  Speaker 2: impulses of one deranged to prave human being.
• 2:01:21
  Speaker 1: I'm tending to keep going. We've gone along. I usually
• 2:01:23
  Speaker 1: don't go over an hour on interviews because I always
• 2:01:25
  Speaker 1: worry about whether people fade away. But I don't think
• 2:01:28
  Speaker 1: anybody fades away from you my front.
• 2:01:30
  Speaker 2: I mean, this was an amazing conversation.
• 2:01:33
  Speaker 1: I look, I wanted. I love to do it again.
• 2:01:36
  Speaker 2: Chance to talk to a political anthropologist at this length.
• 2:01:39
  Speaker 1: Ah, you're very you're you're you're you're amusing to me
• 2:01:42
  Speaker 1: that you're using my words. Uh, either it getst me
• 2:01:45
  Speaker 1: or with me. But uh, I want to do this
• 2:01:48
  Speaker 1: again because.
• 2:01:50
  Speaker 2: Every week I think, I just every week.
• 2:01:53
  Speaker 1: You're a process guy. I love process, and we're all
• 2:01:56
  Speaker 1: trying to ultimately the country is better when there's a
• 2:02:00
  Speaker 1: process to follow, and what want to do? The grifters
• 2:02:05
  Speaker 1: don't want process because they get caught when there's When
• 2:02:09
  Speaker 1: when there's a process, All right, my friend, be safe
• 2:02:11
  Speaker 1: on the trail. I do I do. I assume you
• 2:02:14
  Speaker 1: worry about those things.
• 2:02:15
  Speaker 2: I do worry about these things.
• 2:02:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we all unfortunately, as my friend Paul Rycoff says,
• 2:02:22
  Speaker 1: stay vigilant. I think it's true, we all need to
• 2:02:25
  Speaker 1: a right sir, be safe. So what is your favorite
• 2:02:37
  Speaker 1: F word? And what do you think I should bleep?
• 2:02:38
  Speaker 1: Do I have to bleep every time someone says federalist
• 2:02:41
  Speaker 1: society or or or or what say you? I'd love
• 2:02:44
  Speaker 1: to hear from you. Look, in all seriousness, I find
• 2:02:48
  Speaker 1: the you know, George Conway's argument is incredibly persuasive when
• 2:02:55
  Speaker 1: I look at it through the lens of the Constitution,
• 2:02:59
  Speaker 1: the durability of the republic right.
• 2:03:03
  Speaker 2: Uh.
• 2:03:04
  Speaker 1: And I will admit that I'll be equally persuaded by
• 2:03:07
  Speaker 1: the political argument that says you got to get power
• 2:03:11
  Speaker 1: before you can start to do these things. And it
• 2:03:13
  Speaker 1: may be that the best way to get powers to
• 2:03:15
  Speaker 1: talk more about affordability than in talking about a third impeachment.
• 2:03:18
  Speaker 2: Uh.
• 2:03:19
  Speaker 1: And Yet, if there's ever a congressional district where I
• 2:03:22
  Speaker 1: think George Conway can have the conversation going, no, this
• 2:03:25
  Speaker 1: is what we're going to focus on. First, it's probably
• 2:03:29
  Speaker 1: it's probably a district. It's probably a congressional district in Manhattan.
• 2:03:34
  Speaker 1: Or I would argue, what used to be the the
• 2:03:38
  Speaker 1: the Arlington, Alexandria congressional district of you know, the Don
• 2:03:41
  Speaker 1: Bayer district in northern Virginia. Though now it's all getting
• 2:03:46
  Speaker 1: scrambled up, so we got we're going to have some
• 2:03:48
  Speaker 1: weird congressional districts now in Virginia. That Yeah, you want
• 2:03:54
  Speaker 1: to talk about misleading ad campaigns, woo the yes I
• 2:03:58
  Speaker 1: am I'm not sure where to be impressed with the
• 2:04:00
  Speaker 1: messaging of the yes ads on the Virginia Constitutional Amendment,
• 2:04:06
  Speaker 1: because literally, it makes you, it makes you think that
• 2:04:10
  Speaker 1: the only way to create fairness is to have these
• 2:04:12
  Speaker 1: new maps and it's it's and yet then they emphasize
• 2:04:15
  Speaker 1: temporarily it's they do a good job of confusing the issue,
• 2:04:21
  Speaker 1: and they're going to have more money on this because
• 2:04:25
  Speaker 1: I it's the rights had a tough time figuring out
• 2:04:28
  Speaker 1: how to oppose these efforts in other states because you
• 2:04:31
  Speaker 1: know who started it, right, This is a case where
• 2:04:34
  Speaker 1: Democrats brought a gun to a knife fight. Normally it's
• 2:04:39
  Speaker 1: the it's the Republicans that bring the guns to the
• 2:04:42
  Speaker 1: knife fight. This time the Democrats brought the guns, and
• 2:04:46
  Speaker 1: Republicans have been surprisingly caught flat footed on this that's
• 2:04:51
  Speaker 1: on the politics side of things, And it goes back
• 2:04:52
  Speaker 1: to that's why I know I went down there, But
• 2:04:55
  Speaker 1: it goes back to I. I don't know if it
• 2:05:04
  Speaker 1: is history will be kinder to us if the constitution
• 2:05:11
  Speaker 1: is used to throw him out of office. But I
• 2:05:14
  Speaker 1: don't know if you can get there, if our country
• 2:05:16
  Speaker 1: is ready to get there politically yet. But he makes
• 2:05:20
  Speaker 1: a very persuasive case. And what I admire about his
• 2:05:23
  Speaker 1: candidacy is he is telling the voters this is what
• 2:05:26
  Speaker 1: I'm going to do. So if you want this done,
• 2:05:30
  Speaker 1: I'm your candidate. It's all we can ask for from
• 2:05:33
  Speaker 1: people running for office. Tell us what mandate you plan
• 2:05:36
  Speaker 1: to take away from your if you win this primary
• 2:05:39
  Speaker 1: and if you win this election, there you go. All right,
• 2:05:44
  Speaker 1: let's get to some ass. Chuck ass chuck. All right,
• 2:05:51
  Speaker 1: Ryan asked, I'm probably getting ahead of things here, but
• 2:05:54
  Speaker 1: what if and hear me out, we just gave Trump
• 2:05:56
  Speaker 1: what he wants. Legacy and treasure seem to be his goal,
• 2:05:58
  Speaker 1: So maybe we use that to as real policy. Want
• 2:06:01
  Speaker 1: to keep your katar jet great? Just sign a public
• 2:06:03
  Speaker 1: health care option into law. Don't want another Epstein here
• 2:06:06
  Speaker 1: in cool reform, the war powers Act. I'm mostly kidding,
• 2:06:09
  Speaker 1: but it's nice to dream about turning chaos into actual progress. Well, Ryan,
• 2:06:13
  Speaker 1: I mean Chuck Schumer tried this strategy arguably when he
• 2:06:17
  Speaker 1: was willing to get codify DAKA for the Wall, and
• 2:06:22
  Speaker 1: Trump almost took it, took the deal. In fact, the
• 2:06:25
  Speaker 1: greatest fear that many Republicans in Congress have had is
• 2:06:28
  Speaker 1: that Democrats might start being willing to cut deals directly
• 2:06:32
  Speaker 1: with Trump if they do things like this, All right,
• 2:06:36
  Speaker 1: you want your name on this. Double the amount of money, right,
• 2:06:42
  Speaker 1: double the appropriation so that we can build this high
• 2:06:45
  Speaker 1: speed rail here, and we'll call it all the Trump
• 2:06:48
  Speaker 1: high Speed Rail System. I think we see that that
• 2:06:58
  Speaker 1: Trump is if his base won't go along. I think
• 2:07:03
  Speaker 1: it goes back to and I vacillate on this whether
• 2:07:07
  Speaker 1: who controls Does Trump have more influence on the mega
• 2:07:10
  Speaker 1: base or does the magabase have more influence on Trump?
• 2:07:15
  Speaker 1: And I think when you see how the Epstein files went,
• 2:07:19
  Speaker 1: I think, oh, sometimes the megabase has more influence than Trump.
• 2:07:24
  Speaker 1: Trump's had a hard time turning his base against the
• 2:07:27
  Speaker 1: Epstein file release, so right, And I think there are
• 2:07:36
  Speaker 1: some in the MAGA world who just don't ever want
• 2:07:38
  Speaker 1: to cut deals with any Democrats own the Libs matters
• 2:07:41
  Speaker 1: more than doing what's best for the country. And you know,
• 2:07:46
  Speaker 1: with Trump, his narcissism is so strong that he can be,
• 2:07:50
  Speaker 1: you know, persuaded in ways that even the maga right
• 2:07:54
  Speaker 1: wouldn't like. But ultimately I get what you know, and
• 2:08:00
  Speaker 1: I know your sort of tongue in cheek. Ultimately, welcome
• 2:08:04
  Speaker 1: to akliptocracy because that's I think what you describe is
• 2:08:09
  Speaker 1: exactly how Trump would like to run the government. All right.
• 2:08:12
  Speaker 1: Next question comes from John asked, Glendale, Wisconsin. Damn, damn
• 2:08:17
  Speaker 1: good guests the last few weeks. Thank you. When I
• 2:08:19
  Speaker 1: was younger, I kept up on all the Senators and
• 2:08:22
  Speaker 1: most representatives, a bit of a political nerd back then.
• 2:08:24
  Speaker 1: I've got it, I've gotten a bit lazy. Really appreciate
• 2:08:26
  Speaker 1: you having candidates on. It brings my pessimism back to normal.
• 2:08:29
  Speaker 1: Oh good, and gives me refreshing optimism about future leaders. Also,
• 2:08:32
  Speaker 1: you can have such good listener questions. I hear them
• 2:08:35
  Speaker 1: and a lot of times think I was just thinking
• 2:08:36
  Speaker 1: about that. Keep up the good work makes my morning
• 2:08:38
  Speaker 1: walks fly by, nice go back, go by the way.
• 2:08:41
  Speaker 1: I agree that Lafleur should have been fired. Wow. John
• 2:08:43
  Speaker 1: Aske from Glendale, Wisconsin. Look, I appreciate you saying that,
• 2:08:46
  Speaker 1: and I'm going to continue to have more candidates on.
• 2:08:48
  Speaker 1: We're gonna have I know we're working on Molly McMorrow
• 2:08:51
  Speaker 1: in Michigan. I've had abdulasa ed. So we want to
• 2:08:54
  Speaker 1: get Molly McMorrow, and I want Hanley Stevens, and I
• 2:08:56
  Speaker 1: want Mike Rogers. We're going to try to get them all.
• 2:08:59
  Speaker 1: Matt Mayhem, I think we're working on him, the mayor
• 2:09:02
  Speaker 1: of San Jose, he'll be coming soon. So we keep
• 2:09:04
  Speaker 1: them up. We're going to keep doing it. We keep
• 2:09:06
  Speaker 1: working on James Talerico. Maybe if we tell them that
• 2:09:08
  Speaker 1: the FCC tail doesn't want him on here, he'll show up.
• 2:09:14
  Speaker 1: One quick bit of Packer news, Rich Pissaci has finally gone. Sorry.
• 2:09:20
  Speaker 1: Like us, Packer fans are sort of like, okay, if
• 2:09:23
  Speaker 1: we're going to keep la floor. The worst special team's
• 2:09:27
  Speaker 1: performance of the last three years belongs to the Green
• 2:09:30
  Speaker 1: Bay Packers. Extraordinarily terrible when you think about the fact
• 2:09:34
  Speaker 1: that they've been a playoff team and have had this
• 2:09:36
  Speaker 1: piss poor special teams efforts. It has been fascinating to
• 2:09:40
  Speaker 1: me watching the Packer beat rioters and the Packer gms
• 2:09:45
  Speaker 1: and all this stuff, the apologists for Bisacia. Here's what
• 2:09:49
  Speaker 1: I'll tell you, John, if you're wondering, I've been obsessed
• 2:09:53
  Speaker 1: with this. I think rich Pisacia is the best source
• 2:09:55
  Speaker 1: for every Packers beat reporter because not all one of
• 2:09:58
  Speaker 1: them wanted to say a negative thing about him, talk
• 2:10:00
  Speaker 1: about how important he was for culture and this and that.
• 2:10:04
  Speaker 1: It is a reminder just like in politics, you know,
• 2:10:08
  Speaker 1: beat reporters don't want to screw their sources, and sometimes
• 2:10:13
  Speaker 1: the bad actors are good sources. And I think Basachia
• 2:10:18
  Speaker 1: is an exactly I mean, what was amazing is I mean,
• 2:10:21
  Speaker 1: you got to give the packers what of course he
• 2:10:24
  Speaker 1: was fired, but they were not yet I guess I
• 2:10:27
  Speaker 1: got to give the packers credit. No, no, no, no,
• 2:10:29
  Speaker 1: he's chosen to move on and resign and all this stuff.
• 2:10:32
  Speaker 1: But my goodness, we didn't do anything right in special teams.
• 2:10:35
  Speaker 1: And when you look, the biggest, you know, hidden advantage
• 2:10:41
  Speaker 1: of the Seahawks had over the rest of the league
• 2:10:44
  Speaker 1: was their special teams. They had a terrific punter, a
• 2:10:47
  Speaker 1: terrific field goalkicker, and an amazing thought returner that is
• 2:10:53
  Speaker 1: worth a lot, all right, mark for mann arbor rights.
• 2:10:58
  Speaker 1: And did the Biden administration tried to include in the
• 2:11:00
  Speaker 1: Inflation Reduction Act really an environmental bill some even really
• 2:11:04
  Speaker 1: call it an energy bill. Mark the authority for the
• 2:11:06
  Speaker 1: EPA to regulate greenhouse gases and classify the gases pollutant.
• 2:11:09
  Speaker 1: Seems like that would have prevented the situation with the
• 2:11:11
  Speaker 1: recent executive order and likely court cases on eps's environmental
• 2:11:15
  Speaker 1: and endangement finding it is odd at the bill including
• 2:11:19
  Speaker 1: on the incentives to combat GHG without creating legislation acknowledging
• 2:11:23
  Speaker 1: the problem. Well, this gets it to the larger issue
• 2:11:26
  Speaker 1: of I'm not going to get into the details of
• 2:11:33
  Speaker 1: the bill. I want to get into the larger issue
• 2:11:35
  Speaker 1: that actually George Conway and I got into, which is
• 2:11:38
  Speaker 1: Congress is afraid to do its job right. And there
• 2:11:41
  Speaker 1: had been this, there's been this accepted mindset among congressional
• 2:11:47
  Speaker 1: leaders in both parties that they're better off keeping language
• 2:11:51
  Speaker 1: vague because then the executive Branch and the administration and
• 2:11:54
  Speaker 1: the agencies that then implement can you know, they basically
• 2:12:00
  Speaker 1: get a second bite to then interpret how the policy
• 2:12:03
  Speaker 1: gets implemented. Well, that always leads to court cases, which
• 2:12:07
  Speaker 1: then leads to ambiguous language, which then leads to the
• 2:12:09
  Speaker 1: court saying no, Congress needs to expressly say what it wants. Ultimately,
• 2:12:14
  Speaker 1: Congress is the problem on just about every issue. You
• 2:12:18
  Speaker 1: may be frustrated. And I think this was the problem
• 2:12:24
  Speaker 1: is that Congress has not been explicit enough in what
• 2:12:28
  Speaker 1: the authority is. Congress wasn't explicit enough in what in
• 2:12:33
  Speaker 1: what the h in what exactly they wanted the EPA
• 2:12:36
  Speaker 1: to regulate. They were essentially, you know, they in so
• 2:12:41
  Speaker 1: many of these bills, it's sort of up to eight
• 2:12:44
  Speaker 1: you know, up to the interpretation of the agency experts
• 2:12:48
  Speaker 1: or you know, and I you know, it's this idea
• 2:12:51
  Speaker 1: of well, you know, and I think in fairness, right,
• 2:12:54
  Speaker 1: Congress doesn't know the specific Sometimes you've got to let
• 2:12:58
  Speaker 1: experts sort of determine the best parts of implementation. But
• 2:13:02
  Speaker 1: a lot of times Congress is just hiding so that
• 2:13:05
  Speaker 1: they can they don't have to be declarative on what
• 2:13:08
  Speaker 1: they've agreed upon in their bill. So I think that's
• 2:13:14
  Speaker 1: the issue. And it is a lot harder to get
• 2:13:17
  Speaker 1: certain members of Congress, like it was going to be
• 2:13:20
  Speaker 1: easier to get Mansion to agree to something if you
• 2:13:22
  Speaker 1: kept in ambiguous what exactly what exactly the authority of
• 2:13:28
  Speaker 1: the APA would be, that implying that there was always
• 2:13:31
  Speaker 1: going to be a second negotiation on the implementation process.
• 2:13:34
  Speaker 1: The point is, gave the executive branch too much leeway.
• 2:13:37
  Speaker 1: And when you gave that too much leeway, and then
• 2:13:39
  Speaker 1: you change the party in the White House who has
• 2:13:41
  Speaker 1: no interest in implementing the bill based on the way
• 2:13:44
  Speaker 1: it was it was interpreted when it was passed. So ultimately,
• 2:13:49
  Speaker 1: the fear that members of Congress have for expressly saying
• 2:13:56
  Speaker 1: what they hope the legislation does in the legislation itself
• 2:13:59
  Speaker 1: creates a situations that just invites lawsuits and makes it
• 2:14:03
  Speaker 1: easier for courts to intervene. And this is you know, look,
• 2:14:06
  Speaker 1: I can go back. I think Congress has not been
• 2:14:07
  Speaker 1: doing it. You know, job arguablieve. You know, we keep
• 2:14:13
  Speaker 1: we had to go to the courts to desegregate the schools.
• 2:14:15
  Speaker 1: We get a you know, it's always you always had
• 2:14:17
  Speaker 1: to go to the courts because of the ambiguous nature
• 2:14:20
  Speaker 1: or the fear that Congress has of stepping out on
• 2:14:24
  Speaker 1: certain things and trying to codify things in the law.
• 2:14:28
  Speaker 1: So I know there's some specific she wanted me to
• 2:14:32
  Speaker 1: dive into on that, and there's a part of me
• 2:14:35
  Speaker 1: that I got to I almost want to give this
• 2:14:37
  Speaker 1: to my daughter and make her do it as a
• 2:14:39
  Speaker 1: homework assignment, since she's my marine biology major on that front,
• 2:14:43
  Speaker 1: and she's been studying this and and sort of all
• 2:14:48
  Speaker 1: of this stuff, and it's a lot more conversant than
• 2:14:50
  Speaker 1: I am on some of the stuff. Mark, So thank you.
• 2:14:54
  Speaker 1: Next question comes from Jason Any writes, Hey, I've heard
• 2:14:57
  Speaker 1: you mentioned a few times that we do not each
• 2:15:00
  Speaker 1: the collapse of the Ottoman Empire enough in classes to
• 2:15:02
  Speaker 1: contextualize the Middle East today. You have articles, books to
• 2:15:04
  Speaker 1: recommend to help and teach you better understand the situation
• 2:15:06
  Speaker 1: and how the artificial borders led to the ethnic nationalism
• 2:15:09
  Speaker 1: and tensions we see in the region today. PS. Thanks
• 2:15:11
  Speaker 1: for talking to my class at SJC in September October.
• 2:15:14
  Speaker 1: Fun and turbulence certainly for y'all. A season for both
• 2:15:19
  Speaker 1: of our football teams all miss for me. Hey, Jason,
• 2:15:23
  Speaker 1: thanks for saying that, and I look, man, I enjoy anytime,
• 2:15:27
  Speaker 1: bite me anytime, I will be there. Like I said,
• 2:15:31
  Speaker 1: I actually you're not the first person ask me for
• 2:15:34
  Speaker 1: a few recommendations So here are the two recommendations I gave.
• 2:15:38
  Speaker 1: Both have been written in the twenty first century, which
• 2:15:40
  Speaker 1: I think means you'll get the context you need. One
• 2:15:43
  Speaker 1: is by Eugene Rogan. He's a prominent American historian, director
• 2:15:46
  Speaker 1: of the Middle East Center at Saint Antony's College in Oxford.
• 2:15:49
  Speaker 1: So Oxford to Oxford for you there, Jason. It's called
• 2:15:52
  Speaker 1: Fall of the Ottomans. Rogan's central argument is that the
• 2:15:55
  Speaker 1: Ottomans weren't merely passive victims or minor players, but fought
• 2:15:59
  Speaker 1: a genuinely sick, magnificant war across multiple fronts, and the
• 2:16:04
  Speaker 1: book draws heavily on Ottoman, Arabic and Turkish sources alongside
• 2:16:08
  Speaker 1: British and other Allied documents. Point is that the reason
• 2:16:11
  Speaker 1: this book is good is because it uses more Arab
• 2:16:13
  Speaker 1: sources and Turkish sources, so much of how we've taught
• 2:16:17
  Speaker 1: World War One and even the fall of the Ottoman
• 2:16:19
  Speaker 1: Empires through the prism of the Brits right and the
• 2:16:21
  Speaker 1: French and the European side of things, rather than from
• 2:16:24
  Speaker 1: the essentially the Arab side of things to get a
• 2:16:26
  Speaker 1: more complete picture. The second book worth reading is another
• 2:16:30
  Speaker 1: terrific one. The Ottoman Road to War in nineteen fourteen
• 2:16:33
  Speaker 1: by Mustafa Oxakil. He's a respected Ottoman historian. He teaches
• 2:16:38
  Speaker 1: it Georgetown, so here in my neck of the woods.
• 2:16:40
  Speaker 1: His core argument is the Ottoman entry into the war
• 2:16:42
  Speaker 1: was a calculated decision, driven by Ottoman leaders, particularly who
• 2:16:47
  Speaker 1: saw the war as an opportunity to restore prestige to
• 2:16:50
  Speaker 1: the Ottoman Empire after the devastating Balkan War losses. So
• 2:16:57
  Speaker 1: what's good about that one again is that it is
• 2:16:59
  Speaker 1: more from the perspective of the Ottoman side rather than
• 2:17:01
  Speaker 1: always writing from the perspective of the German side. But
• 2:17:05
  Speaker 1: there's all sorts of you know, trying to understand sort
• 2:17:07
  Speaker 1: of the post war of that. And like I said,
• 2:17:11
  Speaker 1: a couple of drunk Brits and Frenchmen decided to draw
• 2:17:14
  Speaker 1: these straight lines in the Middle East. YadA, YadA, YadA.
• 2:17:16
  Speaker 1: We've had nothing but outbreaks of war ever since. But
• 2:17:19
  Speaker 1: those are my two recommendations there for you, and I
• 2:17:22
  Speaker 1: just wanted to stay consistent. It's also a pretty good
• 2:17:25
  Speaker 1: hardcore history on this, Dan Carlin, He's done it. There's
• 2:17:28
  Speaker 1: a few others. A good history podcast is sometimes better
• 2:17:32
  Speaker 1: than some of the books, all right, I got two
• 2:17:37
  Speaker 1: more questions here. I'm gonna go three more questions. Well,
• 2:17:42
  Speaker 1: we'll see. I got I gotta get out of here.
• 2:17:44
  Speaker 1: I got a heart out on this recording moment here.
• 2:17:48
  Speaker 1: But you don't need to do know all of that stuff,
• 2:17:51
  Speaker 1: Jay and New York Rights. You've done multiple top five
• 2:17:54
  Speaker 1: lists on Senate and governor's races. But I was wondering
• 2:17:55
  Speaker 1: if you had a handful of house races that you
• 2:17:57
  Speaker 1: were keeping an eye on. Even if it's just two
• 2:17:59
  Speaker 1: or three house races, which ones are you watching closely?
• 2:18:01
  Speaker 2: And why?
• 2:18:01
  Speaker 1: Beyond the more well known toss up seats, I'm curious
• 2:18:03
  Speaker 1: about races like North Carolina eleven, Tennessee five, and the
• 2:18:06
  Speaker 1: safer red Colorado districts. I will tell you that my
• 2:18:11
  Speaker 1: obsession is are the Iowa congressional districts one, two, and three.
• 2:18:15
  Speaker 1: Iowa in general is, to me, is the Petri dish
• 2:18:20
  Speaker 1: of whether the Democrats can be a full on national
• 2:18:23
  Speaker 1: party again and whether they can get congressional majorities and
• 2:18:27
  Speaker 1: they can get a Senate majority. Iowa sort of holds
• 2:18:30
  Speaker 1: the key. Those three seats are swingy seats. You can't drum.
• 2:18:35
  Speaker 1: You couldn't Jerry Manderum if you wanted to, but I
• 2:18:40
  Speaker 1: think even you just couldn't figure out how to do
• 2:18:43
  Speaker 1: it because all the population are in the bluer areas
• 2:18:46
  Speaker 1: and stuff. So it is I think that those three
• 2:18:53
  Speaker 1: are the best bell weathers because they're so closely contested
• 2:18:59
  Speaker 1: by party, because they also include some rural parts. So
• 2:19:06
  Speaker 1: you know, if Republican turnout is under under is sort
• 2:19:13
  Speaker 1: of underwhelming in rural areas, democratic turnout is up. I
• 2:19:19
  Speaker 1: always a place you should see it come to life.
• 2:19:21
  Speaker 1: And then that's the difference between Democrats winning those congressionals
• 2:19:24
  Speaker 1: and districts and losing them. They when they've lost them,
• 2:19:27
  Speaker 1: they narrowly lose them. When they win them, they narrowly
• 2:19:29
  Speaker 1: win them. Right, So you know, look, we can I
• 2:19:33
  Speaker 1: can cherry pick interesting races. I you know, I get
• 2:19:37
  Speaker 1: why you're interested in Tennessee five. You know, maybe right
• 2:19:39
  Speaker 1: there's if you're going to find one competitive seat in Tennessee,
• 2:19:42
  Speaker 1: it might be that one. I'm very curious to see
• 2:19:45
  Speaker 1: what happens along the h on the other side of
• 2:19:48
  Speaker 1: the Rockies. That's a seat that in really bad Republican
• 2:19:53
  Speaker 1: years has flipped to the Democrats. So I get your
• 2:19:55
  Speaker 1: interested in some of the Redder, Colifornia, Colorado districts. I
• 2:20:01
  Speaker 1: think those If you're asking me for what are the
• 2:20:03
  Speaker 1: and I will get to that. I will give you
• 2:20:05
  Speaker 1: when we get closer, the five seats that will tell
• 2:20:08
  Speaker 1: me that can help me directionally know which way the
• 2:20:11
  Speaker 1: winds are blowing and how you know? Will the Democrats
• 2:20:15
  Speaker 1: have a good night, great night, or an incredible night
• 2:20:18
  Speaker 1: or a bad night? You know, not winning the House
• 2:20:21
  Speaker 1: at this point would be considered a bad night. All right.
• 2:20:24
  Speaker 1: Next question comes from email from Lenexa, Kansas. Anyway, Hey,
• 2:20:29
  Speaker 1: in today's podcast, you are more optimistic than I am
• 2:20:30
  Speaker 1: about Congress passing a pardon reform bill. Given Trump's veto
• 2:20:33
  Speaker 1: power and the Republican Party's unwillingness to challenge him, I
• 2:20:36
  Speaker 1: see little chance of it passing even if Democrats control
• 2:20:39
  Speaker 1: both chambers in twenty twenty six. I stand by my
• 2:20:40
  Speaker 1: earlier point. The only realistic path is fully eliminating the
• 2:20:43
  Speaker 1: president's pardon powers I outlined in my prior email. I look,
• 2:20:46
  Speaker 1: that's where I'm at. I think it's I think we
• 2:20:48
  Speaker 1: had to get rid of I think we had to
• 2:20:50
  Speaker 1: create a pardon board. But if you're asking me, what's
• 2:20:53
  Speaker 1: a constitutional amendment that I think could get two thirds
• 2:20:56
  Speaker 1: a support in Congress. It's the one that's been outlined
• 2:20:59
  Speaker 1: because it is a nullification. It is asking for a
• 2:21:04
  Speaker 1: super majority in order to even trigger the nullification of
• 2:21:07
  Speaker 1: the pardon. It it feels like and it and you
• 2:21:15
  Speaker 1: know it's look, president can't veto a constitutional amendment because
• 2:21:20
  Speaker 1: it would in order for it to get out of
• 2:21:22
  Speaker 1: Congress and has to get two third support, So it's
• 2:21:24
  Speaker 1: essentially veto proof. So there's no there's no role there
• 2:21:27
  Speaker 1: for the president for what it's worth on that. So
• 2:21:31
  Speaker 1: that isn't the issue. If you're worried about that. The
• 2:21:34
  Speaker 1: question is whether Trump turns it into a litmus test
• 2:21:37
  Speaker 1: against himself or if is it something that you let
• 2:21:40
  Speaker 1: sit there, slowly gain support and the second there's a
• 2:21:44
  Speaker 1: new president, you pass it and you send it to
• 2:21:47
  Speaker 1: the States. This is where don't let the enemy of
• 2:21:55
  Speaker 1: the enemy of the perfect? What is it? What's that for?
• 2:22:00
  Speaker 1: Don't let the uh don't let the perfect be the
• 2:22:03
  Speaker 1: enemy of the good. And that is why I might
• 2:22:08
  Speaker 1: like that's I creating a check on the president's pardon
• 2:22:13
  Speaker 1: power is better than nothing. And what what I admire
• 2:22:18
  Speaker 1: about that this pardon reform bill is that it's clearly
• 2:22:23
  Speaker 1: written in a way to try to get as bipartisan
• 2:22:28
  Speaker 1: of a group of people behind this as you possibly can.
• 2:22:33
  Speaker 1: All right, final question, Uh Jim from Saint Paul, Minnesota. Hey, check,
• 2:22:36
  Speaker 1: I love the podcast. I'm a full episode kind of guy.
• 2:22:39
  Speaker 1: Like to hear that. I know which you know who
• 2:22:41
  Speaker 1: you are? In your segment about one term president, you
• 2:22:43
  Speaker 1: said that several loss because they were not politically astute,
• 2:22:45
  Speaker 1: if they were not politically adept, how do they win
• 2:22:48
  Speaker 1: in the first place? Because they won by being you
• 2:22:52
  Speaker 1: know who, they weren't right, or you know, George H. W.
• 2:22:55
  Speaker 1: Bush won because he wasn't Michael Ducacas. He made Michael
• 2:22:58
  Speaker 1: Ducacca's unacceptable car one because the country was just going
• 2:23:02
  Speaker 1: to fire. Any Democrat was going to win in seventy six, right,
• 2:23:05
  Speaker 1: And you know, we like the idea of electing a
• 2:23:08
  Speaker 1: guy who promised he'd never you know, he'd never lie,
• 2:23:12
  Speaker 1: and he'd always tell us the truth. So I think
• 2:23:15
  Speaker 1: that you're not wrong. I mean, look, I think when
• 2:23:18
  Speaker 1: you you know, if you're asking me, if we ever
• 2:23:20
  Speaker 1: had a political Hall of Fame, anybody who won the
• 2:23:23
  Speaker 1: presidency to me would automatically get entry.
• 2:23:25
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 2:23:25
  Speaker 1: It's like it's like hitting it's like hitting six hundred
• 2:23:28
  Speaker 1: home runs. You know, I'm gonna put you in no
• 2:23:30
  Speaker 1: matter what, unless you really prove you cheated. And but
• 2:23:37
  Speaker 1: a lot of times these one term presidents they won
• 2:23:39
  Speaker 1: because of who they weren't, and that's usually why it's
• 2:23:44
  Speaker 1: much harder for them to keep traction and stay in office.
• 2:23:48
  Speaker 1: All right, with that, let's take a what are we
• 2:23:52
  Speaker 1: looking at here? Seventy two hour break and barring war
• 2:23:57
  Speaker 1: with Iran before Monday, I'll see about it.
• 2:24:02
  Speaker 2: Y