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From Olympic Gold to Rock Bottom… and Back Again · Harder Than Life

• 0:00
  What race stands out to you that made you the most proudest? It's a weighing scale between obviously winning the Olympic gold. Yeah. But also beating Usain Bolt in 2017 in the world stage.
• 0:14
  Well, it's a clean start. It's a good start by Coleman. The Americans flying in lane number five. It's the American leading the Jamaican at the moment. It's going to be Coleman for 9.94 seconds. Justin Gatlin with a time of 9.92 seconds.
• 0:30
  You're in a stadium full of 100,000 people, and when your name is announced on the intercom, all you hear is, broooo, the whole time. It made me feel like I worked hard for this. No one in the stadium knows who I truly am and why I want this the most. I looked right in that camera and I locked in. I was like, you don't know who I am and how I'm built. Before we start our race, I would walk down that track and I would envision how the race would unfold.
• 0:54
  My college coach would always associate me and come up to me and grab my shoulders and say, you're Michael Jordan. You're Muhammad Ali. You're Jesse Owens. You're great. Go out there and show the world what greatness looks like. It doesn't matter who's cheering for you or who's denying you out there. You control this moment. What are you going to do with it?
• 1:13
  Mental fitness and physical mastery are the two easiest things you can do. Face your fears, man. Like when I knew that I was competing against certain athletes that had the capabilities that I did, I would dedicate a squat rep to them or a bench rep to them. 3.45 on the bench. I'll be like, Usain Bolt. God.
• 1:33
  Tyson Gage, Johan Blake. Those moments you need to man up and get this weight off your chest. That's when you become brave. So if you align your braveness, whatever you have fear for, you will overcome all that's in front of you. You normalize it. Everyone is going to get to a point where when you fall, that darkness is going to test you. Are you strong enough to get back up and get yourself to that light?
• 1:59
  I'm Kelly Siegel, and this is Harder Than Life, a podcast about self-love, self-awareness, business, and health. We tell outrageous stories and boil everything down to simple, practical advice you can start using today. Let's get living. Welcome back to the Harder Than Life podcast, and welcome to the Harder Than Life podcast for some of you guys. Today, I have a dear friend who...
• 2:20
  you're gonna recognize the name right away, amazing man, and we're gonna dig into a lot of his life. So Justin Gatlin is one of the most decorated and polarizing sprinters in US track and field history. A former Olympic champion, five-time Olympic medalist, and multiple-time world champion, Justin burst the global stage in 2004 with Olympic gold in Athens, and went to compete at the highest level for nearly two decades.
• 2:46
  His blazing 100-meter personal best of 9.74 seconds still ranks him in the top five fastest men in history. Now retired from professional racing, Justin is shifting gears into mentorship and mental wellness advocacy. As a strategic advisor for The Zone, a mental health platform supporting collegiate athletes, he's tackling the next great challenge in sports, strengthening the mind as much as the body. Welcome, my friend.
• 3:14
  Thank you, thank you, man. Thanks for having me, man. Dude, I'm so grateful that you're on and everything happens at the right point. But we're going to dive around a bunch of questions. But then in the end, I'm going to do a fun rapid fire. We're going to go through 15 things just to get in your beautiful mind. But we're going to start off with what first drew you to sprinting? And when did you realize you had Olympic level speed? Man, you know, what drew me to sprinting as like a sport itself? Yeah.
• 3:43
  I realized I was fast when I did other sports. So when I was in basketball, I was a guy who always had to break away, had to pass ball running to the other end of the court or in football, running the go routes. And then that's when I realized, like, I might be good at track. I might be good at just raw speed. So I gave it an option and I gave it an opportunity and, you know, went out for the track team and I never looked back after that, man. You know? What was the defining moment where you said, I mean, I'm going to be one of the best.
• 4:12
  You know, for me, it was always naturally a stair-stepping kind of like accomplishments. I wasn't like 15 years old thinking about I wanted to be an Olympian. I wanted to be the fastest person in the world. Because if you think like that, I feel like there's so much in between that can just derail you from what your goal is or distract you.
• 4:32
  So I felt like at the age when I first started competing at a young age, I wanted to be the fastest kid on my team. Then I wanted to be the fastest kid in district. Then I wanted to be the fastest kid in my region, in my state. Then I wanted to go to college and be the fastest kid on my team in college and
• 4:49
  in the nation. And then I would look to the dream of being the fastest person in the world. So I knew that there were steps and requirements to get to that point. I just didn't want to jump from point A all the way to like point J, you know, so I had to go through those steps to get there.
• 5:03
  Yeah, when I met you, the mental capacity, because I said to you, I look at you, Olympians as the most mentally tough individuals on the planet. You trained for four years to shave one hundredth of a second, and that means the difference between winning and losing. So what did it feel like winning Olympic gold when you were only 22 years old? Surreal. You know, it made it feel like my dream was so easy, like I was destined to do this.
• 5:32
  You know, like, you got to think about it. From 2004, I turned pro in 2003. I became indoor world champion. I beat one of my idols, Maurice Green, my first year out as a rookie. And in 2004, I won the Olympic gold. Then 2005, I become double gold world champion. So it showed in 2004 I wasn't a fluke. And in 2006, I break the world record. So it was like a snowball effect of success. Wow. Success after success after success. And I was like, wow, like...
• 6:01
  I'm destined to be this. So for me, it was a realization of like, OK, I'm having a great time with this. What's going to keep me plugged in? What's going to keep me hungry to stay involved and having that hunger to fight for more and want more?
• 6:18
  you were talking about legends and you've had, you got the world record. You, you've beat legends. What race stands out to you that made you the most proudest? Wow. It has to, it has to be a, it's a weighing scale between obviously winning the Olympic gold, you know, but also being Usain Bolt.
• 6:36
  And 2017 in the world stage when the whole stadium was booing me throughout my rounds leading up to that finals. And I think for me, that was the most proudest moment because I was able to know who I was.
• 6:54
  in that moment. You know, we all line up saying we're, we're some of the best athletes in the world. We're the best sprinters in the world. But when you interact or you are confronted with denial or people want to naysayers or boo you, you,
• 7:11
  Those situations can make you stink again twice. Like, hey, am I built for this? You know, because think about it. If you're in a stadium full of 100,000 people and when your name is announced on the intercom, all you hear is, bro, the whole time. So for me in that moment,
• 7:29
  It made me feel like I worked hard for this. I was dedicated to this process. No one in this stadium knows how hard I worked for this. No one in the stadium knows who I truly am and why I want this the most. And I locked in and I got the job done. Man, I'm having deja vu, Justin, about that. I remember stopping where I was. It was at night right here. They aired it at night. Your race? Yeah.
• 7:52
  Yeah, yeah. I remember I was walking through a bar or something. I stopped and I was cheering you on and I didn't know you then. And I'm like, come on, man. And I could see the joy of overcoming, you know, at that point, your arch nemesis, which Usain Bolt. So were they booing you because you were the best or was it had to do with that scandal that was going on?
• 8:17
  Or that had passed. I always thought about that for the moment. And I realized like in 2012, I was in that same stadium. The Olympics was happening in 2012 in London. Now, if you fast forward to 2017, the world championship happened in London in that same stadium.
• 8:32
  So you could arguably say the crowd consists of people from London or the UK majority, right? And those are the same people that cheered and clapped when I got bronze at the Olympics in 2012 for me, right? I wasn't a threat then. You see what I mean? Like Usain Bolt won the gold. Johan Blake won the silver. I got the bronze. Hey, congratulations to him, right? He did it. Good job for him.
• 8:57
  But then I was the threat that was going to end the fairy tale for Usain Bolt. For him riding off in the sunset, having a cleaned, undefeated record in a championship setting, they didn't want that. So I think from my perspective, that's where the media and the audience came in and started kind of engaging in more mental warfare against me. So it was like, if we can keep him down and make him down and stuff just a little bit within those nine seconds.
• 9:26
  We know that you're saying get the job done. But I was built different. And I think in those situations, that's when you really see who you truly are. Yes, sir. When everyone is denying you, when everyone's telling you no, when the world is saying you can't get it done, because they fear the fact of being in that situation. Before that even happened to me, I was mortified. I was like, that was one of my biggest fears, to be booed while you were being announced and.
• 9:52
  in a stadium or on television, I was, I would be mortified. But when it happened to me, I looked right in that camera and I locked in. I was like, you don't know who I am and how I'm doing. I love it. I love that. So let's let's back up a little more because now we're getting into the stuff that I love, the mindset, man. And it makes it to me, it makes it that much sweeter when people doubt you.
• 10:14
  And when they're against you, because I don't know what it is. It's just the chip on the shoulder. I grew up so poor, and my parents always told me I would amount to nothing. And I just was like, yeah, I'm going to show you. So doubt me. That'll be fun. And you seem to be even better than me. But having said that, you...
• 10:34
  Turned pro, started winning, you're on top of the world, and then a scandal happens, and then you come back, and you did life the right way. And this is, so talk about the ups and downs and how you traverse that, because we've all been through it. Man, when you're riding high, like what would Frank Satchelor, when you're riding high in April, shot down in June, or, you know, it's all about life's roller coasters. So talk about those mental ups and downs and what you did
• 11:01
  keep being you to come back and ultimately win in 2017? I think it's just a calling card of having a championship mindset, right? Having that kind of mentality, like you realize that there are going to be failures along the way on your journey, but you're always poised, dedicated, and determined to go out and win.
• 11:26
  now there's going to be losses they're going to be a slump but that doesn't change your your mindset of where your trajectory should be how am i going to get out this slump how am i going to be able to make myself better you know and i kept just marching forward through that blizzard not knowing when it was going to end
• 11:41
  not knowing, you know, like if it's going to be worse for me along the way, but I just kept moving forward through that blizzard, that blindness. And I know where I needed to be. And once I got through that blizzard and that blindness, I know that I can be able to march back up that mountain and get to the top again. I said, this is where I belong. Cause that's what I always constantly worked hard for. And my co-host on my show says it all the time. He said, no one in history of the track and field has ever climbed Mount Everest twice. Nope.
• 12:09
  I did it early in my career and I create a whole nother career for myself towards my end of my career where I was able to have success and run some of the fastest times in history again to prove that I am the real deal. I am who I am. Well, I saw you recently and I'm going to tell you, even in 43, you're still the real deal, brother, in great shape. And I would argue that.
• 12:32
  your mentality is probably even better now. Cause we get smarter with age. Finally. Somebody just said that to me this morning, like, you know, I'm going to be 50 this year. And they're like, I'm like, I just don't care about this. I'm like, you know why? I said, why? Cause they said, cause you're going to be 50 and it doesn't matter to you anymore. So, um, thank you for that. Because I was going to ask you what the championship mentality is. You just said it. You said it, just keep going. And I got a newsflash for you listeners. Just keep going. No matter if you're 15 or 50, keep going. That's your championship mindset.
• 13:02
  Let's fast forward and talk about the retirement. What was the hardest part about the retirement from competition? The hardest part, I think, for me in retiring is the fact of no athlete talks about retirement to other athletes. It's like a taboo subject. Everyone feels like, oh, athletes are going to retire. They're going to sit back and sit in their comfy couch or chair or go on vacation constantly. Yeah.
• 13:25
  And it may be somewhat of the truth, but when you think about athletes who are dedicated to their craft,
• 13:32
  That's something they do on a daily basis. And then one day they wake up and it's gone. Like they're not doing it anymore. And as an athlete, you are very servient to what your craft is. Like you can talk to a Tom Brady or an Allison Felix or Serena Williams or a Tiger Woods. When these athletes retire from their craft, it's something they've done since adolescence all the way through their adulthood.
• 13:58
  They know nothing else. We know nothing else except get up every day and get the job done. And then one day there's no job to be done anymore. Who am I? How do I identify myself? What do I do in life? How do I contribute to the workforce or life in general now? And it makes you feel like you're on...
• 14:19
  Some people would love this. It makes you feel like you're on an ultimate long, long, long vacation. But the kicker to that is you feel complacent. You feel like you're not pushing forward and getting something done. So now you see athletes are scrambling, trying to find...
• 14:38
  Trying to find worth, stealth worth somewhere else in some other venue. Knowing your identity is so important. And a lot of people don't realize that. And then when you have a moment where you don't have an identity or you feel like you don't have an identity...
• 14:51
  that becomes a factor of like, who am I? How do I search for something bigger and better? Or how do I even match to what I, the greatness that I achieved at this point in my life? What do I go on to kind of just pushing myself forward to that next level? I'm going to ask you what your identity is first, but I'm going to equate this to the listeners because literally what you're saying is freaking me out because I just had this happen. I was sitting with a bunch of college fraternity brothers of mine and we go back 30 years and,
• 15:18
  And my buddy, my best friend looked at me and goes, yeah. And he said, I'm going to retire in 10 years. I looked, I go, how? And I started thinking about it. I'm like, okay, he's 62 or he's 52. That'd be 62. And then it set in for me where I'm going to have to retire. All I've ever done is work since I was 12 years old until now. I've always worked. That's been my mentality.
• 15:41
  get things done, make money, have success. I'm probably 12 years away from looking at that. Freaked me out. When I was just saying that for the listeners to go, if you're working your corporate job or maybe you own your own company,
• 15:57
  Start subtracting your years. You're going to retire somewhere around 65. And then you're going to face what Justin is talking about right now. But Justin, how did you redefine your identity? Because when I saw you, you were still a student of the game. Even just to piggyback off of what you just said a few minutes ago, think about the fact of, yes, a lot of people in the corporate world who are working are going to retire at 65.
• 16:17
  If you look at the lifespan of an elite athlete, almost any sport, you're done by mid-30s. Now you're in the real world where all your peers who aren't elite athletes, they're just getting into their career. So you're sitting back watching and saying, man...
• 16:34
  Look at them go. They're doing their thing. And now you're sitting back trying to figure out what is next for you. Who am I? What am I going to do? I am 35, 37 years old. And I'm now have to figure out a whole different lifestyle for me, a whole different fire that's inside of me or passion. Everything that those traits that are inside you that made you who you are, not because I'm just fast, because I'm determined, because I have a high IQ and track and field, because I know how to figure things out problematically.
• 17:02
  All those things can be poured into a whole different venue that can make me a better person. But now I have to find something that is equal to the passion of what track and field was for me. And that's what's truly hard because you're searching, searching, searching, and you're trying to align your identity to something when you know that at 37 years old, you should be out here enjoying life, doing what you do, but also being diligent to what your craft is.
• 17:31
  And that's hard. But at 65, I'm going to lay back and be like, look, you know what? These bones are getting a little older. I want to spend time with the grandkids. You know, I think we're at that age at 65 where we say, okay,
• 17:45
  It's time for me to kind of just park this ride and kind of just sit back and just relax and enjoy life. You say that now, brother, but I'm going to tell you, the little I know about you, you won't. I'm getting closer and closer and closer, and that freaked me out. I'm like, what? I'm not going to sit around and do nothing. Because here's the other thing too, Justin. We're in such good shape that we're going to live to 100, probably 120 now because of advanced medicine, AI. It's going to be wild. You don't even look like you age, by the way. Yeah.
• 18:15
  And I want to add one more. I'm actually still working out right now because I'm going to make a little bit comeback. I'm going to start doing these little small races against these influencers, Speed, Tyreek Hill, Ashton Hall. Like, these guys are getting into that racing thing, that whole racing world. And I'm thinking in my mind, like, hold on. That's my world.
• 18:36
  Let me get back in shape a little bit and show these guys what it is to have real speed. So that's what I'm doing right now. So I'm preparing myself. And actually, Kelly, it gives me fire. Because now when I go into the gym, it's not just a physique thing or just health thing. It's a fact of I need to get these reps in so I can get faster, so I can get stronger again, so I can beat these guys. That's the competition mode that's kicking in.
• 18:58
  There it is. There's the championship mindset. Just flip the switch right there. It's like, I gotta win. That's the second part of mindset. First move forward. Second one is believe and expect to win. That's beautiful, Justin. And I was thinking a little bit about, who's the fighter that everybody hates he keeps fighting like scrubs? Is it Jake? Jake Paul. Like, you mean the first thing about that? Like, hey, if Jake's gonna do it, we might as well just let the best guy come out and beat everybody.
• 19:27
  And I'm also thinking of our friend Ray Cash, who's doing the reels next to you trying to race. That was funny. I love that mindset, man. I do want to add, again, what's your identity now then? You know what? I love my sport.
• 19:43
  And the longevity I had in my sport is almost unheard of. You don't see a male sprinter that lasts as long as I have in our sport. Usually they're retiring about 28, 30 years old. You know what I mean? Because then the next wave or era of sprinters come in and kind of overtake the older athletes, right? But I was able to evolve and realize like I can navigate still at a very high level in this sport. So for me, I think...
• 20:12
  giving back to the younger athletes, helping them understand, um, what it is to have a business mindset, have more clarity of what their, what their goals are, not be enchanted by, because you want to get a contract or a sponsorship, you know, um,
• 20:30
  social media, exactly. Stay diligent on what your goals are. And that goal is to capture glory, right? And along the way, if you do that, everything else, all those other doors will open up for you. So I think now for me, from my humanitarian side, is becoming more of a mentor, mentally and physically, becoming more of a mentor. So that's what I love to do. But that fire is still inside of me, man. I can see it, man. It's sexy, too. I don't know what it is. You got me all fired up. I want to go running and...
• 20:59
  But my body's not made to run. I lift weights, not made to run. Well, we don't have to run very fast, but we still get some runs in. Yeah. So tell us the secret of that because people laugh at me. I told you I was doing – I'm in the middle of doing 500 workouts this year. I just did 348 this morning. I'm going to do 349 tonight. I should make my 500. I thought it was easy. I thought it would be an easy thing because I work out every single day. No problem.
• 21:26
  What I found that I'll be 50 later on in the year, what I found is stretching, eating a little more carbs to be able to have fuel, getting lots of rest. What did you find that – was there some kind of secret that kept you long in the track and field game or was it just beautiful genes from your beautiful mother? You hit the nail on the head, man. I'm also saying the beautiful genes from my beautiful mother, but it's a fact of –
• 21:52
  the first part of my career was all about running and gunning. It was about getting strong, getting fast, beating everybody I can and just kind of just testing, testing everything. Right. But I think the second half of my career, I realized like recovery is,
• 22:07
  And knowing my body and listening to my body is truly important, right? And we can go in the gym today and throw up 315 on the bench right now and keep going week by week by week by week. But if we don't go out here and stretch, you know, take time to have your body heal and recover and eat the right things, intake the right things, like your body is going to only go take you so far. It's going to clunk out.
• 22:36
  You can push it to the brink of just clunking out. But if you take care of your body after every session, stretch, right? Meditation was a big thing for me as well. And I realized that that kind of transformed me into giving me longer. It gave me longevity for sure in my career. And that's what the beautiful thing was. I wasn't afraid to evolve along my career as I aged.
• 23:01
  I realized like, teach me more modalities. Teach me how to stretch better. Teach me acupuncture. Put me through chiropractic. Put me through trigger release. Show me ultrasound units I can use on my hamstrings and muscles and all these different things. Norma Tech pants, foam rolling, everything. I took it as serious as I did competing. So all those things really kind of like helped my body navigate at a high level
• 23:31
  Even as I became older and I was able to stay in the game longer and people in my sport were like, how are you doing this? It's because I take care of my body. Just listen to my fans. It's all because I take steroids that I look like this because all I wish you could just chomp on steroids. And that did the work for you. But it's 30 years of training, man. And every single one of my guests now mentions meditation.
• 23:55
  Where did you find it? How often do you do it? And what happens if you don't do it? I think there's levels to meditation. I think a lot of people feel like meditation means go sit in a quiet place with your legs folded. And you're kind of just closing your eyes. And you're kind of like sleep but not sleep. That's a different form of meditation. But it's also mindfulness. When you are constantly envisioning yourself yourself.
• 24:20
  doing great things, right? That's a meditation. So I'll give you a perfect example of active meditation for me. Anytime I stepped on that track and I'm at that starting line and I'm lined up against all my other opponents, right? What I do is I would walk down that track
• 24:38
  Right before the before we start our race, I will walk down the track and I would envision how the race would unfold. I would envision saying this guy is a great starter over here to my left. This guy is a great closer over here to my right. How is this race going to unfold? So I'm going to beat them at the 30 meter mark. I'm going to maintain my speed. I'm going to hit another gear when I go into that 75 meters and then I'm going to close out and win this race.
• 25:04
  So as I walk back from the start, and I walk all the way the 100 meters to the finish line. Really? I turn around, I walk back. And when I walk back, I'm the last thing my opponents see as I'm walking down that track. If they're trying to lock in and do their visualization, they see me still walking back. So I'm still locked in their mind as well. So for me, that mindfulness of knowing how this race is going to unfold was necessary for me because I didn't want to put myself in a state of chaos.
• 25:34
  When that gun goes off, what's going on? What's happening? You know what I mean? This guy's out. Oh, I got to kiss this guy. Oh, this guy's finishing hard. Like in nine seconds, you can't react to much of anything. You have to know your race pattern, your race strategy, and you have to nail your race pattern, race strategy. And on top of that, you have to realize and try to trick yourself to thinking every person you race against is the best version of themselves that day. That's what you're competing against.
• 26:01
  Ooh, that's killer mindset. I wanna dig into that deeper because I struggle with visualization. So I wanna walk through that, but I'm gonna give the listeners how I do meditation. I look at meditation, I do a 10 minute every day. And all I can say is that if I don't do it, I feel off. Just something is off. When I do it, I feel like I've pruned the bushes. And I know that sounds weird, but sometimes you gotta pull back to go forward.
• 26:26
  So 10 minutes guided meditation. I don't miss a day. I've done it every single day this year. I do it first thing in the morning and it just sets my day off. But I try to do visualization. Like if I'm gonna go give a speech, I think about who I'm gonna look at. What if I trip? I think about everything, but I don't take it the next step further and smell everything.
• 26:52
  What do I see? What do I feel? Walk us through your routine. When you're walking the 100 meters and then you're walking back,
• 27:02
  What exactly are you seeing and looking and thinking? Because I need help with visualization, which most people do. I also use points of reference on the track. There's like a divot on the track or there's a color line on the track. I say, all right, this line right here, I'm going to drive, use my drive phase out of the blocks to this line, right? And then I'm going to come up and go into my transitional phase at this area of the track.
• 27:32
  further down the track around here. So now as I'm navigating, even if I'm navigating a straight line, I see my points of reference because now that locks me in what my race strategy is. Because there's a lot of stuff that's going on in a matter of seconds that's all around you. Not to mention that you have an audience of 100,000 people watching and cheering and it's loud at the same time. Can you hear them? Yeah.
• 27:56
  Really? It's loud. Yeah. So it was like, if you ever hear, like if you ever been to a soccer match, you know, they're scoring the last goal, Messi, Cristiano Ronaldo scoring that goal and the crowd goes crazy. That's the same energy that you're hearing in a track and field stadium. For 10 seconds, nine seconds for sure. But at the same time, this helps me, these points of reference help me stay locked in to what my goal is. Because if I have eight to seven of the people that's around me,
• 28:26
  I'm going to be looking at them from my peripheral like, oh, what are they doing? So that can be distracting to you as well because now guess what? You're running their race. You're watching how they're competing and now you're just trying to stay up with them. So if you lock in and focus on what you need to do, you're walking your path. You're walking your journey. You're not using any energy to think, oh, I got to speed up. It's here's your marker. Go. It's your own. That's what I like. The blinders.
• 28:52
  And so in corporate America, listeners, this would be the 10, the three, the 10 year goal, the three year goal, the one year goal, all the way down to the quarterly and monthly and hourly goal. So this is what he was preparing. So when you're visualizing, visualizing your points of where you're going to do it and just do it, there's no thought process. But keep going because this is this is beautiful. Thank you. And you want to give yourself cues.
• 29:19
  You know, like my cues and realization is like if I'm in a certain form or technique when I'm running, you know, I got to make sure that if I'm if I'm down and I'm driving from the blocks. Right. And all I see is track in front of me. If I don't see my kneecaps, that means that my legs are behind me. I need to have my legs in front of me. So if I could see my kneecaps marching up and down on the track as I come up out of that drive phase like this, then I know that everything technically is in front of me. Bum, bum, bum.
• 29:49
  Now, if I want to speed up, I don't worry about the lower half of my body because theoretically your arms and your legs are only moving as fast as each other. So if I work on my arms and move my arms faster, my legs will start to move faster. Right. So that's what I think about. It's in my second part of my my race.
• 30:06
  Arms faster, being more aggressive, keeping your core tight and just keep marching down the track. The thing is, you don't want to think about 100 things. Same thing in the corporate world. That's why we have calendars and to do lists. You think of what I need to get done and it's going to lead me to my next successful thing that I also need to get done. Right. So that's how I look at track. Just giving me stages and giving me cues as little as possible. And that's going to make me successful. Right.
• 30:33
  You minimize. You're minimizing whatever your success, your route to success. You're minimizing. I don't need to do this, that, this, that, this, that. And then now I'm at a successful thing. Because something can happen here or something can happen here. But if you say, all right, I need to focus on these three things. Boom, boom, boom. I'm already at the top.
• 30:54
  Where did, who were some of your mentors along the way? You, we didn't get a lot of time to talk and this is why I'm so glad you're on. But who were your mentors and or coaches that taught you all this? Because this isn't something you're born with, is it? Um...
• 31:09
  Partly, I think that you have an understanding. I think you have an understanding. So when someone speaks to you with a championship mindset, you're like, oh, okay, I get it. I understand. I definitely want to thank my mom because she's a tough New Yorker and she just taught me certain tricks and trades along the way. You know what I mean? She'll say things like, do what you need so then you can do what you want to do in life.
• 31:35
  You know what I mean? Like those are mom sayings, right? So I carry that into, into real life and say, okay, priority. That's all there was prioritization. Just making sure I get done when I need to get done. So then I can celebrate and have fun over here. Sacrifices along the way. What are you willing to sacrifice? That's one of the most important things. Like I never had a spring break because I was so busy trying to be the best I could be in college.
• 32:03
  But who cares about having a spring break and partying if what you're celebrating is only spring break? I'm about to go celebrate that. I just want to go. Yeah, it's beautiful. That's a sacrifice I'm willing to make. You know, when you see the goal in front of you, I can deal with not having this and focus on this because that's going to be more successful for me.
• 32:21
  So I think the mentors along the way were my high school coach, my college coach, and a handful of my professional coaches that I've had. They all taught me something along the way. My high school coach told me what world class was before I even knew what it was. He's like, you're world class. And then that helped me kind of open my mind to expand and realize, like, there's a different level to this than just high school running. Right.
• 32:46
  And then as I got to college, my college coach would always associate me and come up to me and grab my shoulders and say, you're Michael Jordan. You're Muhammad Ali. You're Jesse Owens. You're great. Go out there and show the world what greatness looks like. And I would be that kind of athlete. I wouldn't care about the goal around my neck. I care about the pride on my coach's chest. Nice. Because that meant everything to me. So when I turned pro, one of the coaches that I did have, he also was a...
• 33:15
  a former professional sprinter as well. So that helped me understand, like he would give me understanding of mindset at that level. And as we prepared for races, we would prepare like we were going to war. So that last warmup lap that we would walk together before I started warming up, he would come close to me and he whisper, all right, Jay, it's time to get it done.
• 33:36
  All that hard work that we did, all that sacrifice that we've had, this is the moment. It doesn't matter who's cheering for you or who's denying you out there. You control this moment. What are you going to do with it? Go out there and be the person that we've trained you to be. And saying things like that to me activated me mentally and emotionally. And I will go out there and I'll try to prove him right.
• 33:59
  I'm getting all emotional over here because I didn't have any of that, man. And I ended up in a pretty good place. I'm not saying it. What was me? But I just tell you that two people can have diverse paths. Like my mom, the best thing she ever did for me was punch me in the face. Made me tougher than maybe harder than life and made me tough. So you can life can punch me in the face.
• 34:20
  And I'm gonna be like, that's all you got? And then I had one teacher that, he used to call me huge. He's like, you're huge. And I was tiny, I was a late bloomer. And that's about all I can say for mentors. But somehow I ended up here. And when I hear about your mother, before we hit record, you were telling me, you gushing about her. You had a good mother, man. Be very envious of that. Be very proud because I didn't.
• 34:45
  And Justin has a beautiful mother. I can't wait to meet her. She sounds wonderful. And these mentors mean the world. And I'm going to keep doing that. My identity is I'm going to be the one that the 15-year-olds are listening to. Because I grew up in the ghetto and the gutter. And I made something of myself. And you can too. But you are doing it even in a better way. And I want to talk about it. So your role at The Zone.
• 35:11
  Well, tell us about your role at The Zone, what The Zone is. I alluded to it in the intro. Why don't you tell us what it is and then why mental health is the next evolution in sports performance?
• 35:23
  I got an opportunity to partner with The Zone. They're a young company that's coming up, and they believe in the fact of mental health and mental awareness is very important for athletes, not just in track and field, but in sports in general. Because there's always those awkward moments in sports to where you feel alone. You can be on a team and still feel alone. You can be standing at a start line surrounded by hundreds of thousands of people, and you feel alone because you feel like no one understands what you're going through in life.
• 35:52
  I feel like that right now, Justin. Yeah. And the fact of having a platform like the zone, it helps you connect with sports therapists that are either at your college or either they help you outsource therapists that's going to help and guide you through your daily processes. Right. And not just for those moments where you're like, I'm nervous. What do I do? I have a big race tomorrow. It's the fact of they're there for you every step of the way.
• 36:19
  So me being an ambassador for the zone and helping athletes understand and connect and kind of like extinguishing that whole taboo concession that has this around not talking to therapists. Right. Because we always feel like we got to be macho. We got to be strong. Like, I don't need anybody to talk to. I can get through this to myself. Right.
• 36:38
  And nowadays, life becomes so hard for people that they have no one to talk to and they feel like they can get through it. And then they get to that dark place, that really dark place, and they have nothing else to grab onto. And we lose people that way. And...
• 36:53
  People feel like, oh, because you're an athlete in college or in high school, you have it easy. Actually, you have it harder, twice as hard than a normal student. Because now you're getting on a bus or a plane and you're traveling somewhere to compete physically. And along that path, you have to do your homework or whatever assignments for your class. And sometimes you have teachers who become envious or don't appeal to the fact that you're an athlete.
• 37:18
  But the fact is you're juggling two things that you need to be great at. You need to be great in education so you can keep your grades up and you need to be great in athletics so you can keep your scholarship. So that's a pressure cooker within itself right there. So if you have that opportunity to talk to somebody who understands what you're going through and how to navigate through it, that's where the zone is for work.
• 37:38
  It's to help you understand who you are as an athlete, as a student, but also as a young person and how to navigate through that properly. And knowing that there's someone with a hand on your shoulder, there's someone there to make sure that you're going on the right path. You are the perfect person to do it. When we were sitting in that group of gentlemen all talking, you were just listening and taking everything in. And what do you see lacking in support systems for young athletes today? Sports is a factory now.
• 38:04
  You know, we grew up watching Rudy and all these great sports stories like Rocky, where a coach or a system or a team sees something great in you. We want to make you better. So then now they dedicated themselves to making that individual better. Great story. But nowadays, business has kind of like seeped into sports. And when that happens, everything happens very systematically. And now you go from an athlete to being a product.
• 38:34
  And when you're a product, you don't have no feelings. Sometimes you have no say. And that's furthest from the truth. So a lot of these athletes go through a system realizing, like, I'm not being prioritized, you know? And I see a lot more people fail in sports. Yeah.
• 38:54
  then I see people winning sports. And that's sad because that little version of themselves, that little kid wanted to become Olympic champion, wanted to become a Super Bowl champion, wanted to become a basketball finals champion. And the percentage of that happening is small, but the fact is...
• 39:12
  Did people help you even just secure your goal? And a lot of people don't because these coaches have 52 people to worry about. The system has over hundreds of people to worry about. And your needs are not really being prioritized. And I think that's where the zone can come in and help you understand that there's somebody in your corner.
• 39:32
  And I had that, like you said earlier, that I recognized the people that were in my corner and I utilized them the correct way. And they helped me maintain my success, but also helped me with my confidence of who I could be. And that's all I want to give is to the next generation. I don't want them to fail.
• 39:50
  He's given you permission, audience, to be vulnerable and talk about it. And I'll tell you, I say this all the time on my solo podcast. I wish I would have started working on my mental fitness way before I did. Mental fitness and physical mastery are the two easiest things you can do. They're simple, but they're not easy. And start early. Young, we have a big following of 15 to 25-year-olds. You young, get started on your mental fitness.
• 40:19
  mastery, mentally fitness right now. Face your fears. Face your fears, man. Like when I knew that I was competing against certain athletes that had the capabilities that I did, I would dedicate a squat rep to them or a bench rep to them. I would normalize them in my life. So if I always got on there and I had 345 on the bench, I'll be like, Usain Bolt, Tyson Gates. Yeah.
• 40:47
  Yo, I'm late. Because at the end of the day, what happens is those moments where you need to man up and get this weight off your chest, that's when you become brave. So if you align your braveness, whatever you have fear for.
• 41:01
  You will overcome all that's in front of you. You normalize it. So if you're going to work out and you know that I need to go do something that I may be apprehensive about or have fear for, dedicate that into your workouts. Go for a run and dedicate that run to whatever you fear and see how far you get.
• 41:19
  and see how far you push yourself because you're going to, your back's going to be against that wall in that moment when you're tired, you're huffing and puffing, the lactic is building up in your legs. But then you think about whatever that's holding you back, that fear. And you're going to say, no, I could push through this. And you'll realize that it's just something normal that you can overcome.
• 41:39
  and get to the next thing. That's how I dedicated myself. That was one of my secrets in my career. I do the same thing. I'm not as far as you, but if I ever don't feel like doing something, I use this as the same motivation. It's like, oh, so-and-so is probably, my competition's out working out right now. I'm going to go. So if you don't feel like doing it, that should be your motivation.
• 41:58
  What's the name of your podcast again, bro? Ready, set, go. Ready, set, go. You have a podcast. You work at The Zone. You're a dark green athlete. Did I hear that you have a book coming out? I do, man. I have a book that's out now. It's a bestseller on Amazon. It's out. Ready, set, go. I want to forget.
• 42:15
  I'll get you a copy, man. I'll order it. I would. I'm sorry. I would have had it read, but we pulled this together so fast because I just wanted my boy on. Ready, set, go. Tell us about it. So what does your book reveal that the media never told? I think it's just my story from my perspective.
• 42:31
  You know, I learned that being in my career for a very long time, journalism has power. And the power they have is they can go in and edit and omit and tell your story any way they want to tell your story. And I wanted to take that power back by having my own book.
• 42:48
  and having the readers walk down the path of how I was introduced into sports, into track and field, how I realized that I had a unique gift of running fast. But then also it talks about unfiltered my woes through life, my ups and downs, banned from the sport for four years, almost a half a decade, and how I climbed back out of that situation to be able to prove myself and prove to the world who I am. And then I have pictures that I have never shared really on the Internet or social media that are inside my book as well.
• 43:18
  And then at the end of the book, I have a poem that I wrote to track and field called Deer Track, kind of like Kobe did with Deer Basketball. Love it. It's kind of like a double, you know, paying double homage to the great Kobe Bryant, but also my love for track and field. And I gave two chapters at the end of my book to my parents because everyone always asks, like, everyone always asks parents, right?
• 43:46
  When did you know your son was going to be fast or be a champion?
• 43:50
  They were never in sports. So we navigated through track and field, holding hands together. Like I learned, they learned. And then we kind of grew to understanding how to be great in that field. So for me, I gave them their chapter so parents at the end can read what it felt like to kind of rear or grow or nurture an Olympic champion.
• 44:16
  All right, I'm ordering it right now. I apologize for that. Usually I have these read before I even have them on, but we pulled it together so fast I didn't have it. I cannot wait, guys. We'll put it in the link in the show notes. Ready, set, go. Ordering it right this exact second. I will do something else after, and I apologize, but go out and order this book. If you're listening and made it this far, you can hear the brilliance into this man, and he's a student of the game. He's constantly learning. We were sitting in a group of a bunch of...
• 44:43
  Massive thought leaders and my man was taking it in and asking questions and not trying to be the big man on campus. That's why I resonated with you. Just kind. Also, I'm looking here at the notes and I see I didn't even realize we didn't get a chance to talk about this. You're a father? I am, man. I have two boys. Two boys, man. I have a four-year-old and a 15-year-old.
• 45:07
  So how has being a father shaped your views on discipline, competition, and legacy? Oh man, that's good. I think discipline because I have to show them that I have discipline. So then when I discipline them, they realize where it's coming from. Discipline, competition, and legacy. Cause I gotta tell you, I have a 16 year old daughter
• 45:26
  And, you know, I'm harder than life. I'm insane. I get up at 4 a.m. I'm doing 500 workouts. I mean what I say. I say what I do. I'm hard to be around. And that's probably why you and I like each other. I'm intense, man. I run hot. I don't negotiate with myself or anybody else. We came to win and that's what I'm going to do. So she's, I know I got to be soft for her, but it's,
• 45:53
  it made me a better person because I want to be a better man because I have a daughter and I want her to see what a man is supposed to be. But you got two sons. I'd imagine that they think, Hey, big shoes to fill. No pun intended. But how does that, how does that work? And how does that work in your life? I think for the competition side is also the fact of timing is everything. I feel like, you know, like,
• 46:16
  If I was trying to speak to my son about how to be competitive and understanding the world of competition at the age of 13, he would not understand that. He's just understanding now what it looks like at the age of 15 and kind of growing with it. But even legacy. I tell him all the time. I was like, listen.
• 46:36
  All I ask for you is to give your all. And if your all is one of the best in the world, then do that. I don't care if you're the best mailman. I don't care if you're the best ice cream shop owner. I don't care. It's the fact that if you gave your all, when people talk about that subject, you should be mentioned in that topic. You should be mentioned in that topic. That's what I told them. I was like, I'm not looking for you to be better than me. And if you want to be better than me, then I'm going to help you be better than me.
• 47:02
  But that's how you were able to kind of extend legacy. And that's what my oldest son wants to do. He does football. He's not even a track runner. And I said, look.
• 47:13
  Go out there and make us proud, man. You're extending our legacy together. Like what I've done in track is what I've done in track. But now you're able to take that and grow the Gatner name in an area that has been untapped. So you have that opportunity to wear a jersey with your last name on the back of it at all levels, from high school, college, and hopefully professional as well, man. So go out there and do your thing. And I think as a father, my biggest thing I've learned is accountability.
• 47:42
  The whole life, the whole world, I mean, it's easy accountability. Yeah, I think from a professional athlete standpoint, because as an athlete, you have to be kind of selfish. Because you have to worry about what your itinerary is, your schedule is, what surrounds you, the people around you, so you can be able to perform at a high level. Now that I'm away from the sport and retired, I realize the accountability is the fact that I have to be...
• 48:10
  the servant to my son. I have to make sure that he's there on time. I have to make sure he has equipment he needs. I have to make sure that his day's going well. Are you stretching? Are you, are you hydrated? All the things that's necessary because he's at an age where he doesn't realize two plus two is four yet. You know what I mean? He's still kind of buffering here and there on certain things, but I want to make sure that he realizes that I'm there. I'm held accountable. I have to make sure that he's good so he can get to that next level. And,
• 48:37
  From me to you, and you probably realize this because you have a daughter, but...
• 48:42
  The gratitude that comes with it, it's not gonna come until later. It's delayed reaction, right? Oh, just wait, bro, just wait. It gets worse. My daughter does not even like me right now because she doesn't like the discipline. But I will tell you this much, and I know, again, we're talking about each other, me to you, is you tell, I guarantee you tell your boys, I love you unconditionally. No matter you win the game, lose the game, I can't love you any less. And then I go out and I show her.
• 49:11
  Because some of it, I believe, and I'm sure you've seen it, some of these kids are soft, man. Soft. Yeah. And it's like, and I tell my daughter, I'm like, you see me. I went all last weekend, Justin, and I did not, I talked to my girlfriend and my daughter and no other human because I was in the middle of working out something in my mind. It wasn't until late Sunday night where an influencer friend of mine was going through something and needed to talk.
• 49:37
  I'm like, so I say to us, look, this is what I do to win. Winning is lonely. I'm here. I'm not here to be popular. I want to win at life. And as your father, as a podcaster, as a coach, as an author, everything is a competition. But my love is it's going to rub off on them because they can't help with the fact of seeing what we have accomplished and what we're doing in the process of being disciplined.
• 50:05
  And they'll have that aha moment one day when they wake up, either one of their peers or friends or coworkers are going to be like, man, you are so disciplined. You're so set. And they're going to be like, whoa, I'm just like my dad. I hope so from here about the God's ears. One more question or two more questions, and then we're going to rapid fire. So if you could sit across from your 19-year-old self, Justin, what advice would you give yourself? I'll tell myself, don't hold back.
• 50:35
  Did you? I felt like in some areas I did. Those little small areas I felt like I could have been better. We always think we can be better, right? I know that. I think that would just be a reminder, right? Don't hold back, right? But I think to my 19-year-old self, I'll tell myself like –
• 50:55
  Trust is important and it has to be earned. So the people that's in your circle around you, don't just think that just because they're in your circle or around you that they have your best interests at heart. So that's what I would tell myself. Trust, man. Trust the people around you that want to see you do better. Not because you're going to hand them a check, but because their soul says, I want to see Justin do well.
• 51:19
  Oh, man. I just love talking to you. We're going to be long friends. How do you want to be remembered, Justin? I want to be remembered as an individual that was able to blend sports at a high level with life. And I say that because we watch so many athletes play.
• 51:39
  do amazing things and we remember the amazing things they've done, but it doesn't always kind of parallel to life and people who navigate normal people who navigate in life. I want people to realize that when they, especially when they read my book, it's a fact that the ups and downs I've been through in life are just like life. You're going to have those, you want to have everyone's going to get to a point where that when you fall, that darkness is going to test you.
• 52:08
  Are you strong enough to get back up and get yourself to that light? And that's what it was for me. That's when it transcended out of track and field and just me fighting to find peace in my life. So for me, I want to be remembered as a warrior, but someone who was able to fight for life.
• 52:30
  And I fought through it because I was a fast guy and I was a sprinter and I was Olympic champion. But the fact is, I wouldn't be none of that if I wasn't able to navigate myself through real life. Yep. I'm going to spend a minute and gush on you for a second. It isn't, I rooted for you in the Olympics and the track every time. Every time you were competing, I was rooting for you. I didn't know who you were. Now I met you. You're an outstanding human. You're an amazing father, a man. You're kind. You're energy.
• 53:00
  is magnetizing and the entire time that you're being awesome, literally, you're taking it in. And just keep being you and people go out and get his book because I'm sure that there's some amazing things. I'm sorry I didn't read, I will read it and I will post it and there's gonna be some absolute gems in there because this guy's the real deal, people. I can't gush enough and I got to meet you and it was awesome and we're gonna be friends forever,
• 53:28
  That's the end of that. And I'm going to do, we're going to do some fun. This is just, I'm going to read something. You give me one sentence or one word answers, and we're just going to have fun. This is rapid fire. This is 9.74 seconds. Maybe a little faster. I let me stretch. I use the stretch for anything that's rapid. All right, let's go ahead. All right. What's harder winning Olympic gold or maintaining greatness. Maintaining greatness. Mm. Mm. Mm. God, I knew you were going to say that pre-race pump up song. Oh man.
• 54:00
  that can vary. It can, it depends on the day. It depends on the day, what I feel. So, um, it could be 50 cent, many men, many men, wish death upon me. I love it. So that, that's usually one of my pump up songs back in the day. I'm a flow rider guy. You know, I just, anything him, it's, it's just positive. So what's your favorite cheat meal after a win? Oh man. Um,
• 54:27
  Anything I shouldn't eat, hamburgers, pizza. Oh, dessert, bro. I love me a good dessert. Anything chocolate. Chocolate. Dip it in chocolate. You dip anything. You could dip a sofa in chocolate. I'm eating it. You know what I've turned on to lately? Carrot cake. Oh, I can't turn down carrot cake. Man, carrot cake is the best too. Yeah. Morning or night workouts? I would say morning workouts.
• 54:52
  Because morning after you get a good workout in, it feels like you already kind of like accomplished the day. Best cup of coffee on the planet, man. Exactly. What else did the day have in store for me? Because I beat it already. I got to tell you, so I feel so good when I'm finished up my workouts. I wish I could bottle that and sell it. It is, I don't know what, the euphoria that's going, I feel like I can take on the world. And I do go back and visualize that later in the day if it gets tougher. But at six o'clock in the morning when I'm finishing up my workouts,
• 55:21
  I want to bottle that feeling. Usain Bolt in one word. Greatness. Ooh, respect, baby, respect. Most painful loss. Losing the race to him in 2015 when I should have won. Watch that race too, man. I remember it. Gold medal or world record? Gold medal. Can't be broken. Ooh. One thing people get wrong about you.
• 55:46
  I'm a nice guy. I'm goofy. Usually when you watch me on television, I'm really locked in. I'm a different personality when I'm locked in. And I can vouch for that. He is a very kind soul. You have a kind energy about you. It's just, I can't explain it. It's just, I feel at ease. Best piece of advice you've ever received. Don't pretend. If you're injured, you're injured. Don't go out there trying to be a superhero.
• 56:09
  You touched on this one, but let's get narrowed on. One athlete, past or present, you'd love to race. You know what? I'm going to go with Jesse Owens. I'll go with Jesse Owens. I feel like he was brave. He was so brave to go out there into Nazi territory and still go out there and try to win. So, yeah. That's crazy. Mental toughness or physical talent, what wins races? Mental toughness.
• 56:35
  That wins at everything, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Man, that's what it, if I could go back and change, that's the one thing I would tell my younger self. Work on this. Work on your mind. First thing you did after retirement? I went on vacation, but immediately I laid in bed that night and cried like a baby.
• 56:54
  Oh, we got to do that. That's a whole podcast in and of itself. Yeah. Tears of gratitude. Of course. Yeah, it was a mixture. It was definitely a mixture. It was like, it was, because I'm saying goodbye. Yeah. You know what I mean? I'm saying goodbye to someone that I love that I'm never going to see again. You know? Do you cry, this isn't on here. Do you cry out of gratitude? I find myself, I'll be going on my way to gym
• 57:17
  And I just start crying because I'm so grateful for just my life. Absolutely. I think there's a life is a balance. You have people who have depression, who have these depression bouts. I think there's people out there who find joy, just pure joy, and they just find themselves crying because they're happy. They have bliss. So I think there's definitely a balance.
• 57:41
  What's in your gym bag right now? Man. Empty protein shaker. You got to rinse those off. They stink. I know, man. I know. I know. You know what I had to do in mine? I wear the Rocks armband. I wear it.
• 57:59
  elbow braces now so okay i'd never had to do that before all of a sudden my elbows start hurting who's faster today 2025 gatlin or 2004 justin gatlin 2004 gatlin right now finish this sentence the world hasn't seen the last of justin gatlin because the world has not seen the last of justin gatlin because he understands what it means to evolve
• 58:28
  microphone drop. This has been amazing. Guys, go back and listen to this over, whether you're in fitness, in business, every part of what we talked about today will help you. Justin, my new friend, I literally just ordered your book. I love you. Keep doing what you're doing. And until next week, everybody be harder than life. Appreciate it, brother. Thank you so much for having me.
• 58:51
  Please rate and share this podcast. I'm active on all social platforms and love to hear from my Segal supporters. Each and every episode is sponsored by my company, National Technology Management, the easiest and best IT company to do business with, delivering peace of mind with technology every day, even simplifying cybersecurity. Visit TrustNTM.com for more info. Until next week, be harder than life.