Latest / Random Heathen Ramblings / Random Heathen Ramblings: S4, EP23 - Do Our Dreams Anything? (feat. Benjamin "The Dream Wizard" Davidson)

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Random Heathen Ramblings: S4, EP23 - Do Our Dreams Anything? (feat. Benjamin "The Dream Wizard" Davidson) · Random Heathen Ramblings

• 0:00
  Hello everyone and welcome to the random Heathen ramblings
• 0:03
  podcast, where we discuss all sorts of things Germanic,
• 0:06
  Heathen re related. My name is Jessie.
• 0:09
  I am your host. Let's get into it.
• 0:33
  Well, well, well, hello there. Hello to you.
• 0:38
  And to you over there and to you in the back corner, picking your
• 0:41
  nose. I see you ill, and welcome back
• 0:43
  to another episode of the random Heathen ramblings podcast,
• 0:46
  folks. Good to have you back today.
• 0:48
  I've got a really, really fun episode lined up for you so much
• 0:52
  fun. In fact, That my normal intro,
• 0:56
  where I am in my tunic and I've got the banner behind me.
• 1:00
  Now, the whole normal set up, this show was so awesome that I
• 1:05
  forgot to record. The intro before we got the
• 1:10
  guest on the show. So that's why we've got the
• 1:13
  splash screen over here behind me with the random Heenan
• 1:16
  ramblings podcast Banner That's so yeah.
• 1:21
  We've got, we've got a guest coming on today.
• 1:24
  This is going to be a fun one. I spent a lot of time talking
• 1:27
  with this gentleman today and I hope you guys are going to
• 1:31
  enjoy. It is a long one.
• 1:32
  So just a forewarning for you you might want to get comfy you
• 1:38
  know or down this one for later and watch it in piecemeal,
• 1:42
  whatever works best for you. I just want to let you know
• 1:45
  right off the rip that this was a longer one.
• 1:48
  So Benjamin Davis and Davidson scuse me or otherwise known as
• 1:54
  the dream. Wizard, is joining me here today
• 1:57
  to talk about dreams and what stuff dreams are maybe made of
• 2:03
  and do our dreams mean anything. And I thought this would be a
• 2:06
  really fun topic to dive into today because Benjamin is not a
• 2:11
  pagan, he's not Heathen. He is Really nothing I guess and
• 2:17
  then the sense of his religious views.
• 2:18
  I believe, you'll heal, you'll hear him describe himself as an
• 2:21
  atheist or atheistic views, but really, really cool.
• 2:25
  Guy from the time that I got to spend chatting with them has a
• 2:28
  lot of years of psychology study.
• 2:32
  So Freudian jungian Concepts. And we just, we talk about a
• 2:38
  whole bunch of things that you're going to hear today on
• 2:40
  this episode. And it's very, very, very
• 2:44
  possible that I Will be a guest on his podcast while
• 2:48
  Dreamscapes, you're going to find all his information down in
• 2:52
  the show notes to description. He has a website, which if you
• 2:55
  go to his website and go to his about section, you will find all
• 2:58
  of his social media is, his podcast information, his YouTube
• 3:04
  channel, all his socials. Everything's down there in his
• 3:07
  website about section. So it's an easy One-Stop, sort
• 3:10
  of shop thing. I don't like how I have with the
• 3:12
  link tree link, which by the way Don't forget to check out the
• 3:16
  link tree Link in the description and show notes so
• 3:21
  you can find all the ways that you're able to support this
• 3:24
  podcast. So we're not going to do a whole
• 3:27
  bunch of housekeeping stuff. You guys already know the drill.
• 3:29
  Please like, comment, share, subscribe, follow up vote.
• 3:33
  You know, all the things just just be engaging, be a part of
• 3:36
  it. And let's get into this episode
• 3:39
  of the random. He then ran this podcast, do our
• 3:41
  dreams, really mean. Anything to our dreams mean
• 3:43
  anything at all Benjamin. Davidson the dream wizard
• 3:47
  himself is going to explain. Let's get into it.
• 3:51
  Yeah, I get it. I like you remember Oak Fight
• 3:53
  Club. So one of my favorite movies
• 3:55
  actually one of the movies I think should be a not mandatory,
• 3:58
  but it is on the top of the list of necessary.
• 4:01
  I believe Rites of Passage for young man, consider these
• 4:04
  questions. So one of my favorite things is
• 4:07
  he's doing the editing in the thing.
• 4:08
  He was like booop here's the cigarette, Bernie reaches up and
• 4:10
  touches the spot where it was going to be.
• 4:12
  That's how I think of it. Like, if I had a card, you would
• 4:13
  be up in this corner here and I would Up to the right because
• 4:16
  that's where it is. I can't do the backwards thing
• 4:18
  though. Anyway, Fight Club highly.
• 4:19
  Recommended if you haven't seen it out there.
• 4:21
  Yeah. What's the number one rule?
• 4:23
  Right? Right shit.
• 4:26
  Yeah, that's a great discussion. That's a great discussion to.
• 4:29
  So it's a movie about anarchists and I didn't get this until a
• 4:33
  decade after the movie came out. The number one rule is meant to
• 4:37
  show you that you're supposed to break the rules.
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  How does Fight Club grow? Its it grows by people, by Word
• 4:42
  of Mouth. How do you spread the word if
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  you're not allowed? Loud to talk about it.
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  So like the rule was imposed for like you know trolls it's it was
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  a is that the energy of the trickster.
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  I mean it's all that's a very trickster ask movie, the
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  transfer transformation crossing boundaries challenging status
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  status, quos challenging, The Meta concept of Rules by making
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  a rule that is meant to be broken because that's what this
• 5:08
  club is about. Breaking rules, breaking
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  societal Norms. We don't punch each other in the
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  face. Yeah, we do.
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  We do it for fun. We do it.
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  Voluntarily amongst ourselves, you know, and then there's a lot
• 5:19
  of other meta-narratives in it as far as like the what does it
• 5:21
  mean to be a man to be masculine?
• 5:24
  Why have we lost this competitive, fighting Spirit, do
• 5:28
  you need a reason to fight? We just fight for fun because it
• 5:30
  is fun and you're not hurting anyone but each other by but you
• 5:32
  know with boxing match that that type of thing.
• 5:35
  Yeah. When they're under yeah anyway I
• 5:37
  can go on and on about that. It's not reveal Fight Club.
• 5:41
  Yeah that's a I never really thought of it like that it's
• 5:44
  kind of a neat. Call to say who's that?
• 5:46
  Say, When one thing you're going to learn or you are learning as
• 5:52
  you watch it happen. This is where my brain goes.
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  I just what made me think of that, who knows the muses
• 5:57
  whispered to me with the conversation.
• 5:58
  Took us there but these are my expansive associative,
• 6:01
  disorganized Nutty, Professor, thoughts.
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  And that's how the dream interpretation works for me.
• 6:06
  You mentioned something we run with it.
• 6:08
  I get feedback and and but it's that crazy explosion of the so
• 6:14
  many directions to go and then I try and name them all and we get
• 6:17
  a resonance with something that Sense to you.
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  Sometimes you get lucky in the first one, I name is like oh
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  that's it. Or and I tell people also to cut
• 6:25
  me off anytime please. You also, I will ramble.
• 6:27
  But if I'm rambling in a dream interpretation, I say you get a
• 6:31
  sudden inspired thoughts like, whoa, that just made me think of
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  X. Yes, stop me.
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  And say, I need to tell you this, and I will shut up for a
• 6:39
  minute and listen, good. That's what we're looking for.
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  It. That's, that's, that's it.
• 6:43
  Sorry. Cuz you're not in me.
• 6:44
  Yeah, kind of like an echo chamber and we're pinging,
• 6:48
  Things to see what comes back to us in a way.
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  Yeah, that's a great analogy. Echolocation in the dark is kind
• 6:55
  of the way it is. And it's all yelling the, in a
• 6:58
  way of tuning fork and I resonate a different frequencies
• 7:00
  and it's going to harmonize with something in you, that makes
• 7:04
  sense. Feels right?
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  You're going to get a Zing like head.
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  Just in my last interpretation interview with a gal, who's very
• 7:09
  much on the kind of spiritual side of things will say, fair
• 7:12
  enough but also very practical level headed businesswoman.
• 7:17
  She and I Got into the idea of like when I feel like I'm in a
• 7:19
  flow State, like things are working like I'm onto something.
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  I get a visceral physical sensation, as if a flow of
• 7:25
  energy coming through my head down into my chest area and
• 7:28
  coming out like a Care Bear and clean that rainbow out.
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  And anyway, I don't know why. Don't know what more to say
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  about that. That was an epiphany to me
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  yesterday, like that. Yeah, that's a hits.
• 7:41
  It is yeah, yeah she says, you're channeling the god or
• 7:45
  Source energy like I want to believe I am.
• 7:48
  You know, I want to believe I'm on the side of the angels as
• 7:51
  they say, even though I'm not a explicitly, a Christian.
• 7:54
  So this is a pig in ish podcast or at least not explicitly
• 7:58
  Christian. Either my very much, you know,
• 8:00
  agnostic atheist. But I have a great appreciation
• 8:04
  for religious Traditions. I don't think they came from
• 8:07
  nowhere on the link. They were pulled out of
• 8:09
  somebody's butt and imposed upon us.
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  I think every mythology has a reason for existing is trying to
• 8:14
  explain something about the world.
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  And I would also say that about out the Piston mythology without
• 8:19
  trying to insult any Christians. I think it has a think.
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  The Bible is a tremendous, kind of how to practical best
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  practice guide for a lot of things I wouldn't.
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  But then again, I'm not a person who says, you know, there is
• 8:29
  literally a God, that has these specific attributes.
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  And Jesus Christ literally came to Earth.
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  I almost think, like it's like Gandalf.
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  It doesn't matter if he's Jesus Christ, every live.
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  He's a at least a literary figure of value.
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  Showing a way of life that has some Merit virtue in, its favor.
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  Yeah. Anyway, Yeah.
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  No, I think that's great and I think that this is a, this is a,
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  you know, let's get into it right.
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  Let's get into the to the podcast.
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  So I mean, I am joined here today with a dream wizard of all
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  things who I never thought I would have discovered or
• 9:02
  encountered in my perusing Zone the internet.
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  So we have been or Benjamin Davidson also known as the dream
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  wizard. Welcome to the show.
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  Ben, thank you very much. It's good to be here.
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  It's great to have you. And the reason why I Thought it
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  would be great to have you on here today just from what we've
• 9:21
  been talking about now for I don't know, the last 10 or 15
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  minutes is rice is you've got a lot of things to say about a lot
• 9:30
  of things but we're going to try to we're going to try to focus a
• 9:32
  bit on like the dream aspect of it.
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  So before we get into like all of the fun stuff, I would like
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  to give you an opportunity to share with my viewers and
• 9:40
  listeners a little bit about yourself or much about yourself
• 9:44
  as you want to share. What is this dream wizard?
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  What it would Talking about here.
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  What are you doing? As a dream wizard?
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  Yeah, definitely. Well first I'll say hi, I'm
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  Benjamin the dream wizard Davidson, you know, I have a
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  background in Psychology. I did in patient emergency
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  psychiatric, you know, for 20 years.
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  So I've seen when people say they've seen it all pretty much
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  seen it all, might be a few things outside my wheelhouse,
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  but very few. So I took, I take all that
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  experience and I bring it to the the idea of dreams and, you
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  know, analyzing dreams has a long history in Psychology and
• 10:17
  before that I think people were practicing psychology before it.
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  Got that name and it fell under religion and different tribal
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  structures medicine, men, Shaman's and stuff have had this
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  kind of community, cohesion, personal balance and good
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  health, type of type of approach to things.
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  So that's kind of a long story short about my journey to
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  getting here about three. Or so, years ago, I decided I
• 10:40
  didn't want to be a mental health prison guard anymore
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  because this was a locked facility of people with you
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  know, acute psychosis and bipolar.
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  And you know, paranoid schizophrenia and different
• 10:50
  stuff and they needed to be kept safe for their own good.
• 10:53
  And so they but I've always had a problem with being the guy who
• 10:57
  has to stand at the door saying I'm sorry you can't leave and
• 11:00
  they're desperate to get out and I can't allow that because
• 11:03
  reasons, you know, I'm it partly and it's that's a tough one from
• 11:07
  safety for themselves and others.
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  I mean, I've worked in Corrections and I've seen what
• 11:12
  it's like when you're dealing with people who are confined and
• 11:16
  then locked up in And you know that the prison system is it?
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  I mean that's a whole other conversation to it's a messed-up
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  the judicial system as a whole is Miss messed up and mental
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  health care. I don't think is where we need
• 11:31
  to be with it these days, but now it's yeah.
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  And it's funny to think. I mean, so I get into part of my
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  road currently and this is all tanju.
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  Bam, explosion of thoughts, this is what happens to me.
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  I am doing my own master class in how to interpret Dreams by
• 11:48
  reading. These are not all the same book
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  a stack of all the same books. This is this is book 16.
• 11:52
  This is all the other 15 books, this is just my current list of
• 11:56
  reproductions of historical dream literature that I am
• 12:00
  reading editing putting into a new format adding footnotes
• 12:04
  really making it an enhanced Edition from the Modern Age,
• 12:08
  giving my own Framing and opening, editor's note about
• 12:12
  what the content is and how it's going to to relate to the to The
• 12:17
  broader topic. I'm working on book 17.
• 12:20
  I've got at least six more planned, and then I've got a
• 12:23
  whole series of books. I want to write called a
• 12:26
  Wizard's guide. And I'm starting with the
• 12:28
  Wizards guide to Aesop's Fables and it'll be the psychological
• 12:30
  principles that we know today. Proven scientifically that they
• 12:34
  knew two thousand years ago and put it in this story to tell
• 12:36
  children to help them cope with the world.
• 12:39
  Understand human nature that kind of stuff.
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  Okay, long story short on that we're talking about the prison
• 12:43
  system and the medical system as well.
• 12:45
  There's an entire history to that as well.
• 12:47
  Just like I'm researching dreams.
• 12:49
  There's a reason we got to where we are today.
• 12:51
  A people had a problem, they made decisions those decisions
• 12:54
  compounded for good or ill, and now we've got really messed up
• 12:57
  complicated things that are all, just a kind of like a throwing
• 12:59
  together, a jigsaw of ad hoc solutions that are not always
• 13:03
  the best. You know this is reimagining
• 13:05
  things would go a long way. I think long story short.
• 13:07
  That's, that's yeah. You just you just saw what
• 13:09
  happens when I'm interviewing people about their dreams.
• 13:11
  That's how I roll. Yeah, that's how it goes.
• 13:13
  So you've got in front of you, you said you've got 16 different
• 13:17
  Books and you're working on a lot about a half-dozen or you
• 13:21
  have you working on a 17th, you've got about half dozen more
• 13:25
  planned are. These are these works of study
• 13:30
  for others to like it. Could they be considered study
• 13:33
  work for the 44? People may be interested in
• 13:36
  pursuing? What would you call it?
• 13:38
  What is this call? We talked about this offline a
• 13:40
  bit. What's the name of interpreting
• 13:42
  dreams? It's a oh yeah, yeah, okay, so
• 13:44
  dream interpretation is ancient it's goes back since Or recorded
• 13:48
  history, the Greeks had you know Morpheus God of dreams and the
• 13:52
  Sandman is popular series now on Netflix and that was based on a
• 13:55
  comic book from the 90s but you know, the grace of the Greeks
• 13:58
  had Morpheus which was actually a son of the god of night.
• 14:02
  Nick's. And then Morpheus had a son
• 14:04
  oneiros and he brought a specific kind of dream to
• 14:07
  mankind. The Greeks had a wonderful way
• 14:09
  of describing the world as external forces that act upon
• 14:13
  humans. So they've had a very conceptual
• 14:15
  framework for that. Well, the Art of interpreting
• 14:18
  dreams was, you know, named after the God, oneiros and it
• 14:22
  became known as el dinero, man. See the magic of understanding
• 14:26
  dreams, and that's actually what I call this series of books is
• 14:30
  augury biblio, Mansi and Chaos, the ABCs of dream interpretation
• 14:35
  because I like clever things like that.
• 14:37
  So what augury put Omens signs, symbols biblio, Mansi books.
• 14:43
  Biblia Mansi is specifically Attributed to flipping the
• 14:47
  Bible. Specifically open to a random
• 14:49
  page and close your eyes and pointing to something, and
• 14:51
  that's supposed to be God speaking to you.
• 14:53
  So that's the technical term. But I think any study of books
• 14:56
  for understanding is the magic of of literature.
• 15:00
  The the ugly, it is biblio Man. Scene is the magic of studying
• 15:04
  books and then chaos is you never know what's going to
• 15:06
  happen and is the world's chaos. Your dreams are certainly feel
• 15:09
  chaotic, until we bring some light and understanding to them.
• 15:12
  Did you ever question and I'm not answering?
• 15:14
  Yeah, no I named the god of Dreams.
• 15:17
  Well, I'm in is like with with everything that you're doing.
• 15:19
  I mean you've got a small, I wouldn't say small but I mean
• 15:23
  you got it. You got quite an impressive
• 15:24
  array of books which I would venture to say are for sale are
• 15:29
  these all for sale? Yeah.
• 15:30
  Yes. And I'm trying to be very clear
• 15:32
  with people that their these are historical dream literature.
• 15:36
  So I take books that are out of print and available through
• 15:39
  University web pages. And you honestly, if you look at
• 15:41
  the title and the author, you can go find these on What is it
• 15:46
  archive.org? I found them there.
• 15:47
  Literally myself, I've gone to say University of Michigan
• 15:50
  website and they have a digitized copy of a book that's
• 15:53
  out of print. And I just take it and make it
• 15:56
  my own and these are actually heavily edited.
• 15:57
  So if you look at the original version and a book to is a great
• 16:01
  example, so book to is called the mystery of Dreams, it is an
• 16:05
  explicitly Christian perspective on dream.
• 16:08
  So I look at the Muslim perspective, the Greek
• 16:10
  perspective, the Egyptian perspective, I take all of these
• 16:12
  into account so what do? You what will you find online?
• 16:16
  If you look for the mystery of Dreams.
• 16:17
  Well, it was originally just the documented written out sermon of
• 16:21
  a 1600s preacher. And so I took that and put it
• 16:24
  into book form, including translating a lot of the Latin
• 16:27
  badly, probably Latin Scholars out there, feel free to
• 16:29
  critique, but it is not simply copy paste.
• 16:33
  It is not a digital scan of a PDF that I just put into a book,
• 16:36
  a lot of, there's a lot of cheap stuff out there, but I put that
• 16:39
  extra layer of work into these to truly make them a unique
• 16:42
  product that have value from Before as what they are.
• 16:47
  None of these represent exactly what I believe but all of them
• 16:50
  together, informs what I do. And so, literally, I think if
• 16:53
  you bought all these books on read, all of them, you would
• 16:55
  have apart from the 20 years in Psychology, you would have a
• 16:59
  pretty good understanding of where I'm coming from.
• 17:01
  With what are, what does it mean to sleep?
• 17:04
  What is sleep for? What is the experience of
• 17:07
  sleeping white? As her brain work this way in
• 17:09
  sleep. What can we get out of it?
• 17:11
  When we wake up and look back on that experience?
• 17:13
  If we have a memory of it, I had a quick question to from from
• 17:18
  your studies and as extensive as they've been, I remember hearing
• 17:22
  some at some point in my life that humans Dream every night
• 17:29
  that there they, they go into that Rim state, right?
• 17:31
  When they've or at some point in time like we dream every night
• 17:34
  but it's just at what point it happens that are or how detailed
• 17:39
  it is or something happens where we retain it.
• 17:41
  Is that true? Yeah yeah absolutely.
• 17:43
  It's been a philosophical question.
• 17:45
  Throughout the ages do we dream every night and that a lot of it
• 17:49
  gets down to what. So I listen to another podcast,
• 17:51
  I love these guys, such an atom, shout-out to oxygen atom show.
• 17:55
  They have, what's called stitches.
• 17:56
  Which is when you're debating someone or having a discussion,
• 17:59
  there's always a lot of disagreements, come down to
• 18:01
  definitions. It's like, why that's not what I
• 18:03
  mean by that word. So, okay, we want to nail down,
• 18:05
  what is a dream? So they're my perspective, is
• 18:08
  that what we think of as dreams per se is the waking memory of a
• 18:15
  nocturnal Vision in that sense, a nocturnal experience of
• 18:19
  thought in visual auditory terms and then, that's what we say, is
• 18:25
  a dream, when we wake up. Only if we can remember it.
• 18:28
  Now, that being said, my my understanding of biology and my
• 18:34
  philosophical perspective, both aligned in the sense that, you
• 18:37
  know, what I say is the lungs breathe, the heart beats and the
• 18:40
  Brain thinks and it does that even while you were asleep,
• 18:43
  these things never stopped. So, technically slipping into
• 18:47
  unconsciousness, the unconsciousness of sleep is an
• 18:52
  experience of losing conscious attention to the World and
• 18:57
  having it restricted just to your internal subconscious
• 19:01
  experience, which is always going on in the background when
• 19:04
  we're awake as well. So, what I've come around to
• 19:07
  saying is that dreams are more like what our raw thoughts are.
• 19:14
  It's more of the experience of raw thoughts, as they happen
• 19:17
  without the extra layer of processing them through
• 19:20
  conscious attention. So it's almost like what you're
• 19:24
  seeing is more of your own Raw. Unfiltered random associative or
• 19:29
  not random but associative thought process train of
• 19:31
  thought, free flow of Consciousness as without the
• 19:35
  imposing your will upon it. It's like you know you're when
• 19:38
  you're awake, you're in a rowboat and when you're asleep
• 19:40
  you're in the water being carried along with it.
• 19:43
  You'll just drift in Arnold drifting along with it.
• 19:45
  Yeah, yeah yeah, yeah. And it's a great great in-depth
• 19:52
  description of it and yeah, absolutely.
• 19:54
  So yeah, I think so. Just kind of give you like some
• 19:57
  background, as we're talking, you know, I am a Norse Pagan,
• 20:02
  you know. So we have a pretty specific
• 20:05
  view of the world. Not all pagans have the same
• 20:07
  world views on things, but interestingly enough in some of
• 20:10
  the mythology and some of the lore there's one particular I
• 20:15
  don't know if you've ever heard of it but there's one particular
• 20:17
  story that talks about a dream. That one of the Norse gods have
• 20:20
  about his own Or about about like a like destruction his own
• 20:28
  destruction, but his name was balder and yeah he has its
• 20:32
  balder's. That Homer is is the name of the
• 20:34
  poem and it you know balder eventually is a figure in the
• 20:39
  mythology who is killed through Mischief, his waist and his
• 20:47
  death is the thing that in the mythology, insights the the
• 20:51
  Twilight of the Gods Ragnarok right there. their ultimate
• 20:54
  destruction and but, but what's interesting is like you never
• 21:00
  really You know, there's like certain things about that dream,
• 21:05
  if you look it up that, you know, he sees certain things.
• 21:07
  But the dream is seen by the gods as this prophecy.
• 21:12
  And so a like multiple attempts to protect balder from being
• 21:17
  killed to stop this inevitable thing from happening, you know,
• 21:21
  he is, he is his mother goes around all corners of the world
• 21:27
  to get oath, sworn from every living thing.
• 21:31
  A thing that they will never harm him because she doesn't
• 21:34
  want harm to come upon him because if that happens, it's he
• 21:36
  risks being killed and the whole Ragnarok thing happens, right?
• 21:40
  So That those efforts to stop this dream from becoming
• 21:47
  reality. Is is one of the stories in the
• 21:52
  mythology, and have you have you yourself encountered, people or
• 21:57
  seeing things and other literature that carry the same
• 22:00
  kind of theme? You know, dreams that get seen
• 22:03
  as Prophecies of battle, the future thing really?
• 22:06
  Oh, yeah, yeah, no, for sure. So, oh well, so many, so many
• 22:10
  ways. Okay, number one, I want to say
• 22:11
  this before, I forget it my forthcoming series.
• 22:14
  A Wizard's guide to X Y or z, i watch lie.
• 22:16
  Want to open it up to other authors and have me be the
• 22:18
  editor and publish them. So I want to throw this out to
• 22:21
  you as someone who is a Norse Pagan and understands these
• 22:23
  stories, if you, for example, but this is an actual offer as
• 22:27
  well. If you wanted to write a
• 22:29
  Wizard's guide to Norse paganism or Norse mythology or whatever,
• 22:33
  however, you would phrase it and the purpose of it would be to
• 22:37
  say, here are the stories here is actually what they mean.
• 22:40
  And why these people how they developed to explain the world
• 22:44
  and how it informs your Viewpoint and your idea of right
• 22:47
  and wrong and good. Good.
• 22:50
  Virtuous goals and behavior. I want to I made this offer to
• 22:54
  another guy interviewed recently, a math teacher and
• 22:58
  he'll be a Wizard's guide to basic math and it would just you
• 23:01
  know because it's like his teaching style is more aligned
• 23:04
  with mine in some ways in terms of like, what am I trying to
• 23:08
  say? It would be teaching by example,
• 23:11
  in a written form. Like, here's simple stuff.
• 23:13
  Here's let's say, you want to build a fence.
• 23:14
  Here's all the math and geometry that goes into building a fence
• 23:18
  measuring the measuring the post, how Volume of the
• 23:20
  concrete. Do I need practical
• 23:22
  applications? They Don't Really teach school
• 23:23
  that way. So that's more of a Wizard's
• 23:25
  approach. Is this practical Hands-On?
• 23:26
  Can we make use of it? Yeah, and it goes into the
• 23:29
  whole. What is a wizard type of?
• 23:30
  We'll get into that too. That was a whole tangent but I
• 23:33
  wanted to throw that out as an actual serious offer.
• 23:35
  If you ever considered writing that kind of book, we can work
• 23:37
  together and collaborate. It could go over it, you know,
• 23:38
  two years Mama. I'm getting quite good at
• 23:41
  editing and enhancing and so I think I could do that if you've
• 23:44
  ever considered and then we both, you know, publish it under
• 23:46
  my my series see where it takes us back.
• 23:50
  No pressure. I don't need an answer right now
• 23:51
  sleep on it. I say.
• 23:53
  So now I okay part of being a wizard as well means, you got to
• 23:58
  be familiar with a lot of different stories and I would
• 24:00
  not ever Assert that. I am an expert on Norse
• 24:07
  mythology from that, but I have to be familiar with it.
• 24:11
  And I actually do know the story of balder and I believe it was.
• 24:15
  If I have it correctly, was at the mistletoe.
• 24:17
  The only tree. She could not get get that or
• 24:20
  failed to get a commitment from her for God.
• 24:22
  There's different stories, tell the differently.
• 24:24
  As far as I know, it was go ahead.
• 24:27
  The, it was, it was the fact that at least in the stories,
• 24:30
  it's that the mistletoe was Too Young Too.
• 24:33
  Swear an oath. So for egos, like, you'll be.
• 24:36
  All right. You're just a baby.
• 24:37
  You know, we don't need your oath it.
• 24:38
  You're too young. So, yeah.
• 24:40
  Yeah. In some ways, the hubristic
• 24:43
  mistake of not taking potential risk.
• 24:46
  Seriously. Yeah.
• 24:47
  And and then the idea also, there's so we get okay and long
• 24:49
  story short on that is then Loki gets involved as well and he's a
• 24:52
  some people say he's jealous or it's just an inmate Mystique
• 24:56
  mischievous - different stories till it differently but he gets
• 25:01
  a contrives to set up this. What is it a shooting contest?
• 25:03
  As then they're all going to they're going to for sport.
• 25:06
  They're all going to take advantage of balder's.
• 25:08
  Invulnerability. Look, nothing can kill him.
• 25:10
  Haha. Yes, having a great time, that
• 25:12
  is also the hubris of we're not being cautious enough.
• 25:15
  We're a little over confident in our we're taking risks, we don't
• 25:20
  need to and it leads to catastrophe.
• 25:22
  So, the meta-narrative of these stories is like, here's the
• 25:26
  consequences of actions, and why they go wrong and let this
• 25:31
  inform your worldview. So I do need to be familiar.
• 25:33
  With those stories. And you'd probably long story
• 25:36
  short, I tell the story better than I do, but this is where my
• 25:38
  head goes to the meta-narrative. Yeah, and I also had a point
• 25:41
  there 20. So yes.
• 25:42
  So, they craft wasn't lucky sneaks in a narrow made of
• 25:48
  mistletoe. And, and it mortally wounds
• 25:50
  Mulder. He's the most beloved of all the
• 25:52
  gods and their brokenhearted about it.
• 25:56
  Yeah. And those it's those kind of
• 25:57
  narratives and why they happen. And the message of them is what
• 26:02
  makes them important. Yeah, okay.
• 26:05
  And that goes to drink. Yeah, dude, tangents I can't
• 26:08
  believe. I remembered where just tangent
• 26:10
  and all the other ones are, you know, ramble, ramble and
• 26:12
  tangents. Yeah.
• 26:13
  As long as people find it entertaining, we're doing a good
• 26:15
  job. Have I come across dreams
• 26:20
  represented or considered as prophetic?
• 26:22
  Absolutely. That's part of the broader study
• 26:25
  and not my perspective, I might Lane is scientific material
• 26:32
  philosophical. And And psychology, that is how
• 26:37
  I understand dreams. And I'm able to help facilitate
• 26:42
  like a midwife help, facilitate the birth of an understanding of
• 26:44
  those dreams. So I split it, a bit of a
• 26:48
  yin-yang dichotomy I split out the supernatural not because I
• 26:52
  don't believe in it, but because I don't understand it.
• 26:55
  And this is me choosing to stay in my Lane.
• 26:57
  If you bring to me a dream you say, is this purely
• 26:59
  psychological or is this a prophecy?
• 27:02
  I can't tell the difference. I can't identify one from the
• 27:05
  other, I cannot reliably say that dream is definitely a
• 27:09
  prophecy if I could do that, but maybe I will someday, but if I
• 27:13
  could do that, I would, but I can't.
• 27:15
  So and this, this is a grand tradition of Dreams being
• 27:19
  prophetic, and goes back to biblical stories.
• 27:20
  And before long before that, and only reference that there's a
• 27:24
  time period because I think a lot of the Norse Norse mythology
• 27:27
  is older even than the Bible and there's Babylonian stuff that
• 27:30
  goes in the stuff that goes back well thousand to twenty five
• 27:32
  thousand years. So we get a lot of clay tablets
• 27:36
  that have surfaced that show, you know, civilization is older
• 27:38
  than we thought. And all that kind of stuff was
• 27:43
  going somewhere with that. Oh, so if you read, all these
• 27:45
  books, you will see many, many, almost all of these authors
• 27:49
  discussing that very question of bringing their own unique
• 27:51
  perspective to it collating the opinions of Prior Authorities on
• 27:57
  the subject and then opining themselves as a new Authority,
• 28:01
  kind of like I am pretending to be.
• 28:03
  Here we go. I hope to become someday.
• 28:05
  Yeah putting your Twist on it, your angle on it.
• 28:07
  Yeah your flavor based on the history and what I've read and
• 28:10
  what I understand here's what I think is most likely that's kind
• 28:13
  of where I'm coming from with most of the stuff allowing for
• 28:15
  the possibility. I could be completely wrong.
• 28:17
  I don't think so otherwise I'd say something else.
• 28:20
  Yeah you wouldn't put your you wouldn't put our you know and
• 28:22
  that's a lot of to what not necessarily with dreams itself.
• 28:25
  But a lot of with this practice of paganism or whatever, you
• 28:30
  know a lot of people like to Take a historical approach to it
• 28:35
  and see, you know, how was it done at such and such a time.
• 28:39
  What do we know about things that were done at such and such
• 28:42
  a time when you know, those hints those, those pieces of
• 28:46
  fact, you know, and use it to in a way like reconstruct what was
• 28:53
  done then into into a modern application different, you know,
• 28:57
  purpose, I guess behind it because we're talking about
• 28:59
  religiosity and in the actual doing of things, whereas you Do
• 29:03
  yours. I think your wheelhouse is more
• 29:05
  around like the psyche and what's going on behind the
• 29:08
  scenes and you know but it is it's a sorry go ahead well I was
• 29:14
  just going to say but brought to mind a very interesting it is
• 29:18
  accepted as a working Theory as an almost incontrovertible
• 29:23
  working theory that such a thing as the subconscious exists.
• 29:27
  This was not always an accepted fact, there was a huge
• 29:30
  controversy going back. 100, 150 years ago about How to describe
• 29:35
  the internal experience and what it is.
• 29:38
  And there's a lot of people who said all this thing, you call
• 29:41
  these subconscious, what a bunch of polka Min Hui, and
• 29:44
  spiritualism and nonsense. And now we kind of just take it
• 29:47
  for granted, like, okay, there's a subconscious and this is how
• 29:49
  it works. It does it?
• 29:51
  I mean, it's kind of a word, it's a working Theory and it
• 29:53
  seems to make. Can we get results out of it?
• 29:55
  Seems like we can't. So I think that's a practical
• 29:57
  proof is in the pudding. Type of thing.
• 29:59
  That's my tangent tangential thought.
• 30:00
  So that's a wild, you said even as early, I mean, Relatively
• 30:04
  speaking. Yeah. 100 to 150 years ago we as
• 30:07
  a civilization where like subconscious that doesn't exist.
• 30:11
  That's not a thing. That's crazy that were this.
• 30:15
  So closely the attack like coming into this idea that we're
• 30:19
  we're actually more than what we see when we're awake.
• 30:23
  You know, physically awake or conscious there's there's a lot
• 30:25
  that goes on behind the scenes, you know, have you ever watched
• 30:29
  that Netflix show lock and key? Or the, I think it's a lock and
• 30:32
  key or less. You know, talking about what
• 30:34
  kind of disappointing you just ended.
• 30:36
  Wow. So my wife and I we just like
• 30:39
  finish the the last episode of the final season last night
• 30:43
  actually, and have you have you watched it all yet?
• 30:47
  Yes, yes. I did.
• 30:47
  Watch the whole thing. My recall is not Brigham, I got
• 30:50
  swiss cheese. Brain moves far as memory goes
• 30:52
  sometimes, which is amazing because I can ramble, but I just
• 30:54
  fall in whatever whole life. All, in the mind key or the, or
• 30:57
  the, or the head key that they called it, where you can go.
• 31:00
  And the things that the way that the production of To be like,
• 31:04
  you know, spoiler alert for people.
• 31:05
  Like if you guys have our knowing what we're talking about
• 31:08
  in you, and you've watched the series and you haven't reached
• 31:10
  the end of it, yet, click off the video so you don't get any
• 31:13
  spoiler alerts. But fair warned us to yet to see
• 31:17
  how they like they set up stages.
• 31:20
  They set up TV screens. They like, put what I, you know,
• 31:25
  could best say is it's like the physical idea of what's really
• 31:29
  happening when we're asleep or when were unconscious, you know,
• 31:32
  the various Plays things that are playing out because I mean,
• 31:38
  we've all had those types of Dreams where it changes from
• 31:40
  scene to scene, you know, you walk into a room.
• 31:42
  Next thing, you know, you're in somebody else's house, you open
• 31:44
  the door and next thing, you know, you're in the woods, you
• 31:45
  turn around, there's the ocean like what is even going on with
• 31:49
  that stuff? You know like the randomness of
• 31:52
  it all can be so hard to make sense of and this is one of the
• 31:56
  things that makes me what. So I just had a thought of like
• 31:59
  how do I explain why? I believe the subconscious is a
• 32:02
  real thing. So One of the proofs I think and
• 32:05
  that's why it has been accepted is that we can have the
• 32:10
  experience of not thinking something a piece of
• 32:13
  information, and then go up my camera, just froze, it sure did.
• 32:18
  You see if I stop the video and restart it, two seconds here.
• 32:22
  You're good. Filibuster, that the, the
• 32:25
  wonders of modern technology. I just unplugged Andre plugged
• 32:29
  it in that didn't work. Oh, is it working?
• 32:32
  Yeah. Jesus, I've had the worst luck
• 32:35
  with this camera to a Logitech video camera and it just gets
• 32:38
  lost. Is it my computer just says, you
• 32:40
  know, the camera anymore but I think I do what's going on here,
• 32:44
  what happened? Yeah, long story short on that
• 32:47
  is. So we have the experience of
• 32:48
  being able to say retrieve a memory, that itself shows
• 32:53
  there's something outside of our conscious present attention,
• 32:58
  which exists to draw from and that kind of repository, of
• 33:02
  memory of things that are Not actively in our conscious at the
• 33:05
  moment but which can be brought back into Consciousness that
• 33:08
  seems to prove that will that area of long-term memory storage
• 33:13
  seems to be the subconscious. That's my understanding of, and
• 33:15
  I think that it appears to be a real thing.
• 33:18
  Even if it is a real in the sense of it, we can only watch
• 33:22
  it function if you know what I mean.
• 33:24
  Like, we can't dissect the brain and say, here is the
• 33:27
  subconscious. It is this nugget.
• 33:29
  It seems to be kind of everywhere.
• 33:31
  And it seems to be a manifest This is a word for it, like an
• 33:35
  emergent property in a way of of the way the brain works.
• 33:42
  It's just a whole amazing concept by itself.
• 33:46
  We're going somewhere with that. Damn it.
• 33:47
  You some you said maybe think of it like the controversy over the
• 33:50
  does it. It doesn't exist and how recent
• 33:52
  it was. Yeah yeah just how you know
• 33:54
  again within the last less than 200 years we had less or no
• 33:59
  concept of this, you know, and it's a function of it and You
• 34:03
  know, I've been approached by by people that had dreams and they
• 34:09
  come to, you know, it's inevitable.
• 34:12
  You know, you do something for a long enough period of time,
• 34:14
  newcomers to the to the to the scene or to that circle, look to
• 34:19
  you as someone with tenure that can maybe help guide them on
• 34:22
  their way. You know and I've had people
• 34:24
  over the years just asked me hey I had this dream.
• 34:27
  What does it mean? And I'm like I'm not the one
• 34:30
  man. I gotta my, I don't know.
• 34:32
  I do ya like I have a I have somebody I can maybe put the fur
• 34:36
  them to now but I'm and I definitely will because you
• 34:40
  know, but hearing like other like and that was the thing I
• 34:42
  was going to say is you know, you have to have one person that
• 34:45
  asks what they're dreaming and they get as descriptive as they
• 34:48
  can based off the memories that they've been able to retain from
• 34:51
  that experience, you know. And and then people will chime
• 34:54
  in and they'll say their parts, everybody says a little
• 34:56
  something a little bit different, you know, and that's
• 34:59
  what I was. You know, kind of the the title
• 35:01
  or the name of the clock is, do our dreams, really mean
• 35:03
  anything. Like, do they have a meeting,
• 35:06
  you think? Yeah.
• 35:07
  Well, is it just random stuff that could be interpreted
• 35:10
  differently by different people? So here's the the full answer
• 35:13
  is. Yes and no, but but we're going
• 35:15
  to we're going to get it out, of course.
• 35:16
  Um, there is a also a long history of viewing dreams as
• 35:24
  nonsense viewing dreams as random.
• 35:26
  So what you go back to the Medieval Times. and there's a
• 35:31
  very we get into the concepts of mistaken biological Concepts
• 35:37
  that were the the medicine of the day they think of the
• 35:40
  humours of the body. They talk about people being
• 35:42
  sanguine or phlegmatic and whatnot or bilious bile and they
• 35:46
  thought dreams came from gases coming up from the stomach and
• 35:50
  floating into your brain and that causes these images.
• 35:54
  But that was their understanding of the time you go back to say,
• 35:56
  Biblical times. And I was like, well, they even
• 35:58
  Greek times and they Antiquity 2,000 years ago.
• 36:02
  They parsed it out as well. There.
• 36:03
  Different kinds of dreams and that's where we get into the
• 36:06
  Greek. Understanding of like, well what
• 36:08
  dreams are brought by oneiros? What dreams are brought by Isa
• 36:11
  lows and what dreams are brought by the guy that brings
• 36:14
  nightmares. I can't remember all the Greek
• 36:15
  gods. I'm gonna write a book, Wizards
• 36:16
  Guide to the Greek gods as well someday because I need to get it
• 36:19
  straight in my head as well. So many books planned, I never
• 36:23
  did not get it. I'm not gonna finish them all.
• 36:25
  It's true. They give you another 40 years
• 36:27
  and I'm gonna finish them all. That's fine.
• 36:29
  It'll give me something to do. Keep me busy.
• 36:32
  Okay. So Either are even people still
• 36:36
  today, who say? Dreams are dreams mean nothing.
• 36:38
  They are entirely random. You cannot draw meaning from
• 36:41
  them. And I disagree, of course I
• 36:45
  wouldn't be in this profession so to speak.
• 36:47
  If I didn't think there was something valuable, but then
• 36:50
  when we get into okay there's the dichotomy.
• 36:53
  They mean nothing. They mean something.
• 36:54
  Okay, let's say throw that aside.
• 36:56
  Now we're in the category of they mean something.
• 36:57
  Okay. What do they mean?
• 36:58
  Now what rubric do you bring to it?
• 37:00
  What framework of understanding our analysis?
• 37:03
  Can you hold something beneficial?
• 37:05
  And so my Approach and that's almost all I can really speak to
• 37:11
  0 and shit. Help me remember to talk about
• 37:16
  what it would be like to be a guest.
• 37:18
  As a dreamer on my show I want to come back around to them but
• 37:21
  just just that idea cuz I'm going to lose it.
• 37:23
  I'm gonna lose that in this train of thought.
• 37:26
  My personal understanding from my research and my psychology
• 37:31
  background, all of this leading it.
• 37:32
  And the idea that I set aside the spooky, whoo, now, I didn't
• 37:34
  not an insulting term if he's spooky was fascinating.
• 37:36
  I just don't understand it well enough to be an authority.
• 37:40
  I think because the brain continually thinks while you're
• 37:45
  asleep, there are different levels of say depth of sleep.
• 37:49
  And I'm working on this, it kind of work at theoretical work in
• 37:52
  progress, but you have to be close enough to waking close.
• 37:56
  Enough to conscious attention that you can attend to and have
• 38:00
  a memory of yeah, some kind of experience and if you sleep deep
• 38:05
  enough, the experience is still happening.
• 38:07
  It's just not close enough to conscious attention to grasp,
• 38:09
  any of it. It's been smoking since the man
• 38:11
  I hate that too. Like when you wake up you're
• 38:13
  like that was so vivid and then it just literally as you're
• 38:16
  coming into Consciousness it like Vapes away.
• 38:19
  It just walks away. You're like no no no but yeah.
• 38:22
  Remember the specific detail that when you first woke up
• 38:24
  you're like man I could replay this.
• 38:26
  No, wait no, I can't. Yeah.
• 38:28
  And there is something about our conscious attention to the
• 38:31
  present environment. Overwhelming us to wear those
• 38:35
  those dream images disappeared. That's a very common experience.
• 38:40
  I have a personal Theory again, that dreams self-select for
• 38:44
  importance, the dreams, you can and do remember, it's because
• 38:49
  you need to, there's something in there.
• 38:51
  That is so important that your brain won't let it go.
• 38:54
  And even more important, if you have a stronger, emotional
• 38:56
  response after waking up from it's on your mind throughout the
• 38:59
  day, something stuck with you, strong enough to say this is
• 39:04
  Meaningful to you. This is something you need to
• 39:07
  understand, and you can ignore it in your life is not over.
• 39:10
  You can let it go. But if you do, you're, I think
• 39:13
  you're missing an opportunity for something that might help
• 39:17
  you. So, again, I'm trying to explain
• 39:19
  my my Approach. Where was it going close.
• 39:25
  If you have a dream you remember, and if it has that
• 39:28
  emotional impact in the kind of Demands understanding Ike, what
• 39:31
  is this? Why does this bother me?
• 39:32
  Why is this still on my mind? There's something in there so
• 39:36
  because we're thinking all night long Arbor the wheels, never
• 39:38
  stop spinning. Some of these were as humans
• 39:42
  were always kind of trying to problem-solve.
• 39:44
  We want to understand and see ourselves more clearly and see
• 39:48
  her see the world around us more clearly.
• 39:50
  But mostly like, like, fear and anxiety, serve her purpose.
• 39:52
  These dream experiences that we remember.
• 39:55
  And The emotional impact seemed to serve the purpose of
• 39:58
  focusing. Our attention on some unique
• 40:00
  understanding, or problem that is potentially beneficial in
• 40:04
  either, in avoiding a bad outcome, or in obtaining a good
• 40:07
  outcome, either way. So nightmares can be, especially
• 40:10
  necessary to address, but also some dreams that are, like, I
• 40:13
  didn't want to wake up from it. There was something magical
• 40:15
  about that place that made me want to live there.
• 40:18
  I'm like maybe there's something in your life that if you
• 40:21
  understood it, you would have a more magical experience of life
• 40:24
  if you would, you would obtain Some benefit that is Meaningful
• 40:28
  to you and here's this dream trying to show you an
• 40:33
  understanding of it. So long story short, in my
• 40:36
  opinion, yes dreams have can have very intensely meaningful
• 40:40
  and personal meaning. So yeah, here's a great, here's
• 40:45
  a, here's a, here's a question for you.
• 40:47
  I've been dying as somebody who's, you know, I'm glad I
• 40:50
  discovered you because this is a question that I've been
• 40:52
  wondering for a long time. And if you can make any sense of
• 40:54
  it, what about those? Times where you dream in your
• 40:59
  dreams mmm like your thinking. Yeah you think that you're
• 41:04
  having this amazing experience and then at some point in time
• 41:07
  you're like nah I'm just dreaming and you wake yourself
• 41:10
  up out of that experience of that dream but you're still in a
• 41:14
  dream state like you're not awake.
• 41:17
  Yeah. Dream Within a dream that's
• 41:20
  these books to yeah that's like so I've always known that was a
• 41:22
  concept but then what people said about it what how do they I
• 41:25
  understand it. My personal kind of collated
• 41:29
  understanding is that? I don't know that you can fall
• 41:34
  asleep twice. I don't think the subconscious
• 41:38
  sleeps in that way. I don't think that's a physical
• 41:41
  experience we can have. So when you have the experience
• 41:43
  of waking up from a dream, it is a reference to that experience
• 41:47
  of waking up from a dream if that makes sense.
• 41:51
  So, it's not actually a double Awakening.
• 41:53
  It's more like you are thinking about Out dreaming itself.
• 41:57
  You are thinking about what would be like if I woke up from
• 42:00
  a dream too. So and often the idea of
• 42:03
  Awakening and this is where my brain explodes.
• 42:05
  Here's the brainstorm thought bubble, with all the little
• 42:09
  spokes on the wheel, what does it mean to awaken?
• 42:12
  What does it mean to to, you know, to come to we could say,
• 42:16
  come to an understanding it to shed the blinders, keeping you
• 42:20
  from under his, it is to go from a state of unconsciousness to
• 42:25
  This attention. So there's all these kind of
• 42:27
  associative things around it. So if you have a dream that
• 42:29
  specifically says, I was asleep and I woke up, this is your
• 42:34
  dream experience. So what I wear I would go with
• 42:38
  my interpretation thing is to say okay the framework of the
• 42:43
  dream appears to be saying first, I'd become aware then
• 42:47
  other things happen and the other things that happens.
• 42:49
  Okay? What are you becoming aware of
• 42:51
  and what does your hypothetical? Sizing imagination.
• 42:57
  Think about how you would handle becoming aware of say a specific
• 43:01
  thing. So for a lot of people, the icon
• 43:03
  of becoming aware or focusing attention is represented by the
• 43:07
  imagery of Awakening. And so I don't think there's
• 43:11
  actually dreams within dreams necessarily not as a thing.
• 43:14
  That is a conceptual thing. Yes.
• 43:16
  But not as an actual like it feels that way.
• 43:18
  It's just not really what it is actual.
• 43:20
  Yeah. And then there are some dreams.
• 43:22
  I know I've had dreams before that or way more Vivid.
• 43:25
  That others to the point where you didn't even realize that you
• 43:29
  were in the dream state. How do we explain that?
• 43:32
  How do we like what's going on? Or can you even explain like
• 43:36
  what's going on that makes those dreams feel so real get?
• 43:42
  Well, that's a great question. Can I explain it?
• 43:43
  Yes. And do you got it on the hell?
• 43:45
  I'm talking about half the time. Okay, welcome to the show.
• 43:47
  Folks, this is what you have. When you get a dream wizard gets
• 43:49
  this is what we do the dichotomy.
• 43:51
  The yes, yes. But also know things are true.
• 43:55
  I think there's a again, another dichotomy, I think there's two
• 43:57
  ways of understanding the idea of a vivid dream and where they
• 44:00
  come from and why they happen. One is the purely.
• 44:05
  In a sense, we might say, biological psychological side of
• 44:07
  things, which the dream was more intensely Vivid because it was
• 44:10
  closer to your conscious attention.
• 44:13
  You were at a higher say, level of sleep rather than a deeper
• 44:17
  level of sleep. So the impression left at that
• 44:21
  level of subconsciousness is going to be strong.
• 44:25
  You're going to have more intense recall of the
• 44:28
  experience. That's kind of the biological
• 44:30
  side. The other side of it is that
• 44:33
  it's possible that you retain it in the vividness of it is part
• 44:37
  of the dream experience because it's an intensely personal
• 44:41
  subject like or meaningful to you personally.
• 44:44
  So, the intensity of the vividness is a, in a way its own
• 44:49
  kind of dream, communication of, this is something you think is
• 44:54
  important. And should be addressed because
• 44:58
  it's a very interesting thing. We often talk about dream
• 45:01
  Visions but there's all you get all five senses and dreams.
• 45:04
  Now, it's as visual people. We are most likely to have
• 45:07
  visual dreams are our main Form of interacting, with the world
• 45:11
  is, is vision and touch. And those, those are pretty high
• 45:15
  up on there and also sound. But Drita blind people drink.
• 45:20
  They report. Hey, you were asleep.
• 45:22
  Did you experience anything? Yes, I did.
• 45:24
  They don't dream in Visions. They don't see, they have no
• 45:27
  concept of sight. So they dream in touches and
• 45:29
  sounds. Those are the experiences they
• 45:31
  have. Yeah.
• 45:32
  So we so we know it's actually kind of a real phenomenon and
• 45:34
  not random, it's actually tied to our physical waking
• 45:38
  experience in a lot of Ways was going somewhere with that.
• 45:42
  What was the original question shit?
• 45:44
  The the vividness of Dreams why we are saying them so so much
• 45:48
  and others. Not so much.
• 45:50
  Yeah, yeah, exactly. So We have the five senses and
• 45:56
  dreams, but we also have emotional experiences in dreams.
• 45:59
  Now, emotion is a completely internal experience regardless.
• 46:03
  There is an external world that we interact with through our
• 46:06
  senses touch and vision, but our internal emotional experience is
• 46:09
  completely imaginary. It's not that it imaginary like
• 46:13
  oh it doesn't exist. It is a state of a state of
• 46:16
  being that we experience. But it only exists internally,
• 46:20
  there's no physical. Manifestation of Over hate or
• 46:24
  anger, worry. They don't exist external to us.
• 46:27
  They are only a function of her mind and we can also have those
• 46:31
  states of Mind represented in dreams.
• 46:33
  If the classic example is nightmares, you're terrified.
• 46:37
  That's what makes it a nightmare.
• 46:38
  I'm scared, I'm a hunted. I'm trapped all of these
• 46:42
  negative experience. There's an emotional experience
• 46:45
  that can exist in our dreams every bit as much as the
• 46:48
  experience of seeing something happen before us.
• 46:52
  That brings me to one of the things is a boo-boo.
• 46:54
  Kind of book in this or comprehensively address it if
• 46:58
  you if I asked you. Okay, you're in this dream
• 47:03
  experience. What is the motivation of that
• 47:05
  other person and you tell me, oh, they were there to hurt me?
• 47:10
  How do you know that? Did they say something?
• 47:13
  No, I just kind of knew it. That is as real as seeing the
• 47:17
  person or hearing them make a threat.
• 47:19
  The sometimes Dreams Just comp the specific images or
• 47:23
  experiences come, An innate knowing because that's it's
• 47:27
  equally as real as seeing an action performed.
• 47:32
  Having an understanding that person's here to kill me, they
• 47:35
  never made a threat, they're just walking towards you.
• 47:38
  Walking is a neutral Behavior. Are they coming to hand, you
• 47:41
  some flowers? No, they're coming to kill me
• 47:43
  and you just know it. And that is, that is a dream
• 47:45
  truth, in a way, the mind says, okay, here's the scenarios like
• 47:50
  a thought experiment. What if that person is coming to
• 47:52
  kill me, go scene? You know, all right.
• 47:55
  Yeah, yeah. It's almost like I wonder if in
• 47:58
  a way you know the things that we have in the like when we're
• 48:04
  awake, you know, when we're not in a sleep state or in a dream
• 48:06
  state, those Subconscious feelings that we have are like
• 48:14
  brought to life in the dream world in the dream state to
• 48:18
  almost act as a warning or as I guess as like a you know hey
• 48:22
  what you're feeling. There's some validity to it.
• 48:25
  Let's play it out for you to actually see it but not do it in
• 48:28
  a way that's going to bring physical harm to you.
• 48:31
  Definitely. Yeah, there's a great.
• 48:33
  I don't know, not to get political, but I'm going to
• 48:35
  reference a guy that I think is fantastic.
• 48:37
  Jordan Pederson. You talks about the It's great.
• 48:40
  He's that wizard of his own kind.
• 48:42
  He talks about the, you know, we have the capacity for
• 48:46
  imagination so that we can let our ideas die so that we don't
• 48:50
  have to, we don't have to test everything in physical life, we
• 48:53
  can run thought experiments. We can run a what-if scenarios
• 48:57
  and say, based on what I know about the world.
• 48:59
  What do I believe would happen? If I follow XYZ course?
• 49:03
  And then what's going to be the outcome?
• 49:05
  So I think a lot of our dreams are exactly that, they are
• 49:08
  running these. What if Thought experiments that
• 49:11
  incorporate questions and answers they set up, get them
• 49:16
  Rich, keep returning to this idea.
• 49:18
  The idea of thought experiments they set up hypothetical
• 49:20
  scenarios and then we run through them.
• 49:24
  This relates to the thing where I tell people, if you're
• 49:26
  uncertain about something, go ahead and be uncertain and then
• 49:30
  literally sleep on it because there's a good chance you
• 49:33
  whether you will have a dream experience, your brain will
• 49:36
  continue to process. And whether or not you remember
• 49:38
  a dream, you may wake up the next Day with a resolution to
• 49:42
  that specific problem because you gave it time to process.
• 49:45
  And you ran those thought experiments while you're
• 49:47
  unconscious. And you don't have to have any
• 49:50
  memory of ever having a dream, and you may have literally had a
• 49:53
  dream experience that gave you. What you believe is the correct
• 49:56
  answer to a problem. So in related to prophetic
• 50:00
  dreams, there are dreams that are absolutely prophetic and
• 50:04
  true because they are true for you.
• 50:06
  That is actually how you feel that is what you believe is most
• 50:10
  likely end in the physical world.
• 50:11
  You are statistically correct. That is the most likely outcome
• 50:14
  of following a specific path. So you could look at that and
• 50:17
  say, That is a true prophetic dream dream if you make it a
• 50:21
  self-fulfilling prophecy, if you go ahead and act on that
• 50:26
  understanding and make it real then it will become real.
• 50:29
  And you have had literally a prophetic dream in that in that
• 50:32
  sense. So that's one kind of prophetic
• 50:34
  dreaming. I do.
• 50:34
  I do believe in. Yeah I could see that you know
• 50:39
  because I believe that and a lot of other like people that follow
• 50:43
  a path like I do or Norse Norse heathens pagans believed that.
• 50:50
  You know, certain things are set in this, we call it a web of
• 50:54
  weird. Weird is an Old English word
• 50:56
  that can kind of mean, like fate, but it doesn't mean fate
• 50:59
  in the same. Like maybe Greek context, you
• 51:02
  know, that that fate is set. It is set in the To the extent
• 51:08
  that you know you were fated to be born at a specific time and
• 51:12
  you're also faded to to expire and die at a set specific time.
• 51:18
  But all the things that happen you know in between the majority
• 51:21
  of are things that you can Make happen or not make happen.
• 51:26
  You have the best power to weave your own threads into the web,
• 51:30
  you know, and and act or not act and the outcome is going to be
• 51:35
  whatever. So you know, obviously if you
• 51:37
  touch fire, you're going to be burned if you don't, you'll be
• 51:39
  all right. But so those those actions is
• 51:41
  our are determined by us. You know, it's not set by some
• 51:47
  sort of like Divine or otherworldly power, its we have
• 51:52
  those threads and so much of What happens when we're not
• 51:56
  conscious, you know, in that sleep state of that dream state
• 51:58
  I think can can act as a as a has, you know, as an aid for us
• 52:05
  in making or not, making certain decisions.
• 52:07
  Because like you say it's our truth, you know.
• 52:09
  Yeah. And if we're you know, trying to
• 52:13
  decide, you know, should I choose door a or door to write?
• 52:18
  Well, we sleep on it, we wake up the next day after having a
• 52:21
  dream about that thing. Now, we're we've landed on
• 52:25
  Something we landed on that decision.
• 52:26
  Now, we've manifested that and that's really the wild thing
• 52:30
  about, I think humans, like have you done any?
• 52:34
  Or have you seen any studies of Dreams happening in other
• 52:39
  creatures, besides humans like this?
• 52:41
  That is out of thing. Like, do animals have dreams
• 52:43
  today does appear to be a thing. I mean, the classic example, and
• 52:47
  it's talked about, I think have a lock Ellis goes into it in his
• 52:49
  book world of dreams that I've reproduced.
• 52:51
  I wish I could tell you which number was, but it is available
• 52:53
  at Benjamin. Amazon.com through the books
• 52:56
  page. He talks about the classic
• 52:58
  example of we watch a dog sleep and they bark and twitch as if
• 53:03
  they're running there. Appears to be.
• 53:06
  Some kind of a, my dog is in my tears.
• 53:08
  I got dog in my lap. You can't tell, but he is having
• 53:11
  little Twitchy dreams, and hope. Yeah, why would he do that?
• 53:16
  And so there's again, there's a split opinion and I'm very
• 53:18
  heavily on the side of. Yeah, of course, I think animals
• 53:20
  we appear to see maybe horses seemed to have some kind of nut.
• 53:25
  Dr. Neil internal experience. And we know they have these
• 53:27
  creatures have brains. And so, if we would say, any
• 53:30
  creature with the brain, has the potential to sleep and
• 53:33
  experience dreams and then not so much insects or or anything
• 53:37
  else and birds dreams of birds, we, you know, I don't know that
• 53:40
  there's specific research on that, but I would have my
• 53:42
  opinion. If it has a brain, it dreams,
• 53:45
  whether it's aware of that it can make use of it.
• 53:47
  Or knows the difference between dreams and reality.
• 53:49
  That's fascinating. We ever really, really get the
• 53:51
  capacity to say communicate with dolphins.
• 53:53
  They asked him. Do you dream?
• 53:55
  I want to know that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 53:57
  I think certain creatures have have the capacity my more than
• 54:01
  other just because of how their brains have developed and
• 54:03
  evolved over time. Yeah, I would I would, I would
• 54:06
  definitely believe that recurring dreams.
• 54:09
  I was going to pick your brain a little bit about that.
• 54:12
  These things that we have over our life are all over our lives,
• 54:17
  that are a repeat of either the same or very similar
• 54:20
  circumstances. Some of the some of the
• 54:23
  recurring dreams, I know, become very popular and flying you know
• 54:26
  you're flying in your dream or your breathing underwater or
• 54:30
  stuff like that, you know, things that you're like, I'm not
• 54:32
  thinking Actively at least about the opportunity that I, you
• 54:36
  know, could fly or the possibility of breathing
• 54:39
  underwater and then, you know, on a random Thursday.
• 54:43
  You know, night I I wake up and I'm like, well, that was weird.
• 54:47
  You know what's going on with with stuff like that that you
• 54:50
  that so far is even able to Learn or find out.
• 54:54
  Yeah, you're my studies. You can reference the books
• 54:56
  again. There is a category called
• 55:00
  typical dreams and it's because they are a bunch of different
• 55:04
  types of dreams that seem ubiquitous like, we all know
• 55:08
  that is a dream experience because it has happened to so
• 55:11
  many people. The dream of these typical
• 55:14
  dreams are very often dreams of flying dreams of falling, from a
• 55:18
  high place, dreams of being insufficiently.
• 55:22
  Clothed in public or it's cool. Right.
• 55:25
  Unprepared for a test, those are classic erotic dreams to happen.
• 55:30
  And now like that's a, that's a weird thing sometimes, because
• 55:33
  sometimes the people that end up in those dreams you're like I
• 55:36
  would never, you know, why did I dream about what?
• 55:39
  That's, that's the other thing too.
• 55:40
  This he gets to the. How do you tell what dream
• 55:42
  imagery means? So if you have a dream and I use
• 55:45
  this example, that's, you know, what I've never had, or no one's
• 55:48
  ever told me, but I'm like a classic example, you have a
• 55:50
  dream that you stabbed your dog and he dies, And you wake up and
• 55:53
  I'm like, oh my God, that's horrifying.
• 55:55
  Did I do, I want to stab my dog and my, a violent sociopath in
• 55:59
  my, what's wrong with me. And the understanding of that, I
• 56:03
  would come to first and foremost is no.
• 56:06
  You woke up horrified that you had done that.
• 56:09
  You do not desire that you didn't wake up with an erection
• 56:11
  going. That was fun.
• 56:12
  Let's do it for real, you know. Yeah.
• 56:14
  Right. It's so that experience of it
• 56:16
  interpreting that experience. You would say, well, how did you
• 56:19
  feel about it? Oh, I hate it.
• 56:20
  Okay so this represents doing Harm to someone or something you
• 56:25
  care about, as much as the helpless animal under your care,
• 56:29
  and how horrifying a feeling that is, and then the context
• 56:32
  around it. What is going on in your life
• 56:35
  that made you need to understand?
• 56:36
  You have the capacity to inflict harm.
• 56:39
  That could make you feel bad about yourself and so you better
• 56:42
  not do that like warning warning, danger Will Robinson.
• 56:46
  Here's here's, there's something happening where you needed to
• 56:50
  represent it to yourself, as doing harm to, to your most
• 56:52
  David companion, that kind of a thing.
• 56:54
  So that's that's what the understanding it was a.
• 56:56
  We're on a different typical dreams.
• 56:57
  Okay. So dreams and it goes with
• 57:01
  dreams of flight teeth. Falling out.
• 57:03
  A lot of dreams. I hate those, right?
• 57:05
  You have his eyes. Oh yeah.
• 57:07
  Yeah, only recurring dreams. I don't forget.
• 57:08
  That was the original topic? Yeah, recurring James.
• 57:11
  But yeah, like the non typical type or or those the dreams that
• 57:14
  recur, but have a have a recurring theme, you know, you
• 57:16
  maybe not in the same place, but yes, I've had the teeth falling
• 57:19
  out dream. And then you wake up and you're
• 57:20
  like, Paranoid about it because it felt so real.
• 57:24
  Like yeah, it felt good actually lost a tooth.
• 57:26
  Now there's one tooth falls out and there it's related to a
• 57:29
  specific behavior. There's all the teeth suddenly
• 57:32
  fall out, there's teeth crumble and you swallow them.
• 57:34
  There's a lot of different forms these but but a lot of it
• 57:37
  focuses around the mouth. And what is the mouth?
• 57:39
  That's where we ingest nutrition.
• 57:42
  Sometimes, we ingest love the love of our mother and her
• 57:44
  brownies that can be a teeth mouth related.
• 57:47
  Dream to can go a lot of directions, but then we start
• 57:50
  looking. Okay?
• 57:51
  What, what is the human mouth? It is where we smile, it is
• 57:55
  where we kiss, it is where we speak and communicate from.
• 57:58
  It is for us, it's our primary mode of getting our point across
• 58:01
  making a connection with another person.
• 58:03
  So a lot of times teeth and this where we get to the Dream
• 58:06
  Dictionary thing. You look it up, it'll say,
• 58:08
  teeth, falling out means X, maybe it does, maybe it doesn't.
• 58:12
  Do you in this context in this dream, based on what's going on
• 58:16
  in your life right now. So we I get into all the
• 58:17
  specifics can parse out what's most likely, but if we but we
• 58:20
  start with those Odd kind of collective unconscious, themes
• 58:23
  of it is something to do with the human mouth and, and the
• 58:28
  mouth being changed from its proper function teeth should
• 58:31
  exist. So we may chew, they are
• 58:34
  critical to pronouncing the letter T and making making sure
• 58:39
  our ethics don't come out because we have nothing but
• 58:41
  floppy lips, you know. So anyway, these are all the
• 58:44
  things I get into with that kind of stuff.
• 58:46
  But then there's also the other side of it.
• 58:47
  So there's a purely cycling, there's a physiological and this
• 58:49
  is true to this is another part of Parsing out.
• 58:52
  What is a dream? Actually mean I got to consider.
• 58:55
  Hey, have you had dental problems lately?
• 58:57
  If you did likely, you're going to dream about it, you dream.
• 59:00
  All your teeth fall out because you have a cavity and a tooth
• 59:03
  abscess and you got a dental appointment on Thursday.
• 59:05
  Well, there's the Genesis of the dream, you're afraid.
• 59:09
  If I don't take care of my teeth, they're all going to
• 59:10
  disappear perfectly reasonable, fear, perfectly reasonable
• 59:13
  Vision to have Catastrophizing the worst possible result of not
• 59:19
  taking care of your teeth, so physiological stuff can make a.
• 59:23
  There's classic dreams of Greek Physicians and so you Norse
• 59:26
  Pagan, and that's your framework, mine.
• 59:28
  I've always had a fascination with Greek mythology.
• 59:30
  I'm most familiar with those stories.
• 59:32
  I keep going back to the god, Escalade Pious, and then other
• 59:36
  Greek healers and post in the post, Greek are the Roman times
• 59:40
  Galen of pergamon. He was very famous and a lot of
• 59:44
  those, those heels and Were famous for using dreams as
• 59:48
  physical Diagnostics. So if someone had a dream and
• 59:51
  this is a classic example that is may be apocryphal, who knows,
• 59:54
  but you dream that you are driving a chariot or whatever
• 59:59
  and the horses are panting and sweating and straining and
• 1:00:04
  struggling to get you uphill. So, this guy brought that dream
• 1:00:07
  to I think it was Galen and he said, oh, your heart problems.
• 1:00:11
  Your heart is struggling to pump oxygen and blood around your
• 1:00:15
  body. And he did, he said, you know
• 1:00:17
  what? I do, I have palpitations and I
• 1:00:19
  feel short of breath and all of the classics say, you know,
• 1:00:22
  cardiac symptoms. You can diagnose physical stuff
• 1:00:25
  from dreams. Now you I'm not a doctor, you
• 1:00:29
  should go see a doctor, but if your dreams are focusing on
• 1:00:31
  physical symptoms, that could be understood.
• 1:00:33
  That way. Make a doctor's appointment and
• 1:00:35
  say, you know what, I had a dream.
• 1:00:36
  I was drowning, do I have sleep apnea?
• 1:00:39
  Maybe you do, maybe that's exactly what it means.
• 1:00:42
  Well, you get that tested. Yeah, because what is sleep
• 1:00:44
  apnea is? It were choking in our sleep.
• 1:00:46
  Stop breathing. So you would have that physical
• 1:00:48
  those classic story of a guy. He had a brief dream experience
• 1:00:54
  that this giant Lobster like insect landed on him and
• 1:00:58
  attacked his hand huge and he woke up and had a little insect
• 1:01:02
  bite. He had a mosquito had bitten his
• 1:01:03
  hand and that mosquito bite translated itself into this
• 1:01:07
  overblown giant Lobster like insectoid creature attacking his
• 1:01:12
  hand. So very very literally physical
• 1:01:15
  symptoms. He's coming into the awareness
• 1:01:18
  of a dream experience. Yeah, I've had that happen to my
• 1:01:22
  limbs. If you sleep in a position where
• 1:01:24
  you're like your leg or your arm or something falls asleep like
• 1:01:27
  and it falls asleep so much that you lose all feeling of it.
• 1:01:31
  It's like it's beyond its needles.
• 1:01:35
  So like in your dream it's like you've you've you've had this
• 1:01:38
  like attack or something physical happened.
• 1:01:40
  So yeah, I can see like it's like, you're your mind is like,
• 1:01:43
  dude. Wake up and fix this,
• 1:01:45
  something's wrong? Yeah and that actually might be.
• 1:01:48
  So if we go again so many dichotomies in this is um dream
• 1:01:52
  interpretation ends up being a lot.
• 1:01:53
  Like a differential diagnosis of a physician for physical
• 1:01:55
  problems. Get a rule out, a lot of stuff.
• 1:01:57
  You got to consider things at different levels, and then you
• 1:01:59
  go deeper down the most likely pads.
• 1:02:01
  It's a one of those objects, like the Multiverse Theory,
• 1:02:04
  you've got, let's say you've got five different choices.
• 1:02:06
  You can make on a given day, will you pick one?
• 1:02:08
  And then there's more and then there's more that fork off of
• 1:02:11
  that. So you and then you get closer
• 1:02:13
  and closer to the specific Outcome of a specific thing,
• 1:02:16
  long story short, if there are. So if the parse out first, are
• 1:02:21
  there physical symptoms, and then even so might the dream
• 1:02:25
  experience still have relevance and sometimes, yes, sometimes,
• 1:02:30
  no. So let's go with the idea of we
• 1:02:32
  could very easily explain the nightmare of being able to being
• 1:02:35
  unable to run away from something pursuing you.
• 1:02:37
  That is another typical type of dreams.
• 1:02:39
  I'm stuck, I'm moving slowly. I don't have the bodily power to
• 1:02:43
  run. As fast as I believe I should
• 1:02:47
  is, as fast as I believe is necessary to escape.
• 1:02:49
  I'm incapable of Escape. So, that's that's a dream.
• 1:02:53
  Classic nightmare experience a. It could be that you are having
• 1:02:58
  a numb sensation in legs and that is translating itself into,
• 1:03:03
  hey, your body can't move. As freely as you would like it
• 1:03:07
  to therefore, now you're having the experience.
• 1:03:09
  I can't run from a monster because my legs asleep literally
• 1:03:14
  but it doesn't. You don't think.
• 1:03:15
  Oh no, my legs asleep. You just have that experience of
• 1:03:17
  being unable to control the muscles of your body.
• 1:03:19
  Now, if we accept that as the literal cause of that experience
• 1:03:23
  in the dream, that doesn't mean the experience is explained Away
• 1:03:29
  by that cause what your body and your mind, what would you mind
• 1:03:34
  can do with those bodily Sensations and say, oh no, my
• 1:03:37
  legs asleep. Hey, I can't activate my
• 1:03:39
  muscles. This makes me feel threatened
• 1:03:41
  threatened as if I couldn't run away from a monster now, we got
• 1:03:44
  it. Now we've got a stream of
• 1:03:45
  Consciousness and connected thoughts.
• 1:03:48
  The experience of how you try to escape and the nature of the
• 1:03:51
  monster. Now, says things that could be
• 1:03:55
  relevant to your worldview, to yourself understanding.
• 1:03:58
  When I feel vulnerable when I feel physically incapable of
• 1:04:02
  providing for my own safety. How does that make me feel?
• 1:04:05
  What do I fear? Might happen to me, if I'm in a
• 1:04:08
  vulnerable state and that's where we can get those
• 1:04:11
  psychological. Dream, interpretations, purely
• 1:04:13
  physical, cause Very possibly useful in terms of potential for
• 1:04:19
  interpretation still. Now that's that's great.
• 1:04:24
  And what about and you know, this is all really great.
• 1:04:29
  This is all I really fascinating.
• 1:04:30
  I think it's a really interesting time.
• 1:04:35
  Yeah. And I often think to like
• 1:04:38
  they're probably not the same but have you have you explored
• 1:04:43
  the Meditative State of Mind trance states where you're not
• 1:04:49
  laying down asleep. But you've kind of detached your
• 1:04:52
  Consciousness to a, to a degree or your Consciousness is not,
• 1:04:56
  you know, your eyes aren't open. You're not cognitive cognizant
• 1:04:59
  of of things going on around you, but your and you're not
• 1:05:01
  asleep either and things happen in those meditative or
• 1:05:04
  trance-like states. Is that is the same thing
• 1:05:07
  happening. That happens to us when we're
• 1:05:10
  asleep dreaming or is it a different?
• 1:05:13
  Angle of that. We would say there's a lot of
• 1:05:16
  overlap in a kind of broad categorical similarity even if
• 1:05:22
  they are kind of uniquely different experiences.
• 1:05:25
  But there is a broad umbrella category of we might call them
• 1:05:28
  states of mind. If we go that far up, there are
• 1:05:31
  different being anxious or angry is a state of mind.
• 1:05:35
  So even as broad as that we get down to then in some ways,
• 1:05:39
  Altered States of Mind where we're getting further away, From
• 1:05:44
  the volitional, will the The Chosen conscious attention to
• 1:05:49
  something? And that's where we get into and
• 1:05:52
  there's a whole broad category you mentioned most of them I
• 1:05:54
  don't even know if I can ever so there's being literally asleep
• 1:05:57
  and dreaming, that's one altered state of consciousness.
• 1:05:59
  State of mind or state of being trance hypnosis meditation.
• 1:06:05
  They're all there's a broad similarity with all these things
• 1:06:08
  because they're moving us away from that conscious focus and I
• 1:06:15
  was just talking to this gal and it'll be next week's episode.
• 1:06:18
  It will, whenever this this hairs of episode 132 She was
• 1:06:24
  talking about how meditation and dreaming are similar, because
• 1:06:28
  you are choosing to step back from conscious direction of your
• 1:06:34
  flow of thoughts, you let thoughts, come you, let them go.
• 1:06:37
  They just happen when they happen and the whole purpose is
• 1:06:40
  to detach from that and let them be and observe them kind of
• 1:06:43
  dispassionately from a distance. And when we wake up from a
• 1:06:46
  dream, the next day, we are now looking back at an experience
• 1:06:50
  that we are detached from in time and space and sent.
• 1:06:53
  Ways. But also in terms of the raw
• 1:06:56
  material of a of a free flow of subconscious associations that
• 1:07:03
  we can then examine, as almost as if they happened to someone
• 1:07:06
  else. In some ways, an experience we
• 1:07:08
  viewed like a movie and it's there's other theories.
• 1:07:12
  And of course this talks about like Altered States Of
• 1:07:14
  Consciousness and many many of these books.
• 1:07:18
  There used to be theories of a dual personality that when we
• 1:07:22
  were asleep. The kind of director of the
• 1:07:26
  subconscious takes over and shows us things that it thinks
• 1:07:30
  is important and that gets into. Like there's a lot of evolutions
• 1:07:33
  of the theory of mind. They say well what is the mind?
• 1:07:36
  How does it work? What does it appear to be?
• 1:07:38
  And we get it to say the Freud was one of the first that
• 1:07:40
  started to try and nail down exactly what it is in medical
• 1:07:44
  terms, he says there appears to be an ID and ego and super-ego
• 1:07:47
  and the There are in constant tension with each other and the
• 1:07:51
  ID would be all of our animal instincts.
• 1:07:53
  We need to satisfy the urge for procreation.
• 1:07:57
  That's where you got em. All dreams are sexually thought
• 1:07:59
  that was but also, you know, thirst and hunger and shelter
• 1:08:03
  and all the animal instincts are response to fight or flight.
• 1:08:06
  Those are the ID it's involuntary and it works upon a
• 1:08:10
  layer of ourselves family. Lizard brain, a lot of people
• 1:08:13
  describe it different ways, but that's, that's the ID, then the
• 1:08:15
  ego is kind of our conscious self.
• 1:08:18
  As we are thinking and observing ourselves self-reflection, the
• 1:08:23
  our personal preferences aesthetic, tastes our feelings
• 1:08:26
  about the world, what we are, moral compass, conscience,
• 1:08:30
  right? Or wrong.
• 1:08:31
  So he go and then there's the super-ego, which is kind of the
• 1:08:34
  societal pressures that represent the authority of our
• 1:08:40
  parents or the getting along with other people.
• 1:08:44
  They are boundaries and preferences and whatnot.
• 1:08:47
  The so the They're in this kind of triangle of constant tension
• 1:08:53
  with each other. And that was one of the one of
• 1:08:54
  the people like poopoo Freud because they're like, oh, dreams
• 1:08:58
  are always about sex. Well, that depends, you know.
• 1:09:01
  But then they forget he's foundational for the for
• 1:09:03
  introducing the entire concept. He doctors you can just sit down
• 1:09:06
  and talk to your patients and sometimes that helps them feel
• 1:09:09
  better. They weren't they knew that
• 1:09:11
  before. They didn't think that had any
• 1:09:12
  value and you can kind of made that a thing so that the entire
• 1:09:15
  genre of talking therapy and psychological.
• 1:09:18
  Counselors, you go to on a weekly basis, all started with
• 1:09:21
  him, you know, hundred hundred some-odd years ago or it was
• 1:09:23
  taken. Seriously, at that time, people
• 1:09:24
  were doing it before, but he really made it a thing.
• 1:09:27
  Let's go somewhere else with that.
• 1:09:30
  I've lost Freud. Damn you Freud, right?
• 1:09:35
  Right. Over the whole sex thing.
• 1:09:37
  There was a Other people have to.
• 1:09:41
  So if you understand Freud's concept of why, he believes all
• 1:09:44
  dreams are related to sex, he felt like the reproductive Drive
• 1:09:48
  was at the Baseline of everything.
• 1:09:50
  It's the idea that species of things are innately driven to
• 1:09:58
  reproduce themselves to survive in the world and survival.
• 1:10:01
  As a matter of, you got to stay alive, long enough to replicate.
• 1:10:04
  And that goes for bacteria, goes for dogs.
• 1:10:06
  It goes for humans. So he thought At the Baseline of
• 1:10:10
  everything. Was this life Drive life force
• 1:10:15
  and other people named it differently.
• 1:10:16
  There was a guy I know who's Henri bergson or only bug some
• 1:10:21
  french guy who can't, I think he's turn was alarmed at all the
• 1:10:24
  the life Essence. It would people conceptualize in
• 1:10:29
  a different. That's basically what Freud was
• 1:10:30
  talking about. But he he brought it down
• 1:10:33
  sometimes too much. Admittedly to the, your literal,
• 1:10:36
  procreative act in terms of. Nadia.
• 1:10:39
  Well you wish to sexually possess your mother you're in
• 1:10:41
  competition with your father. Not exactly.
• 1:10:44
  You want her affection, you want her approval you and there is
• 1:10:47
  some initial truth to that. The idea that you do look at
• 1:10:51
  first and foremost, when you become aware, that your mom's
• 1:10:53
  attention is divided. Her loyalty is divided between
• 1:10:56
  you and your father. Now you're in competition with
• 1:10:59
  him and you have to settle that some way.
• 1:11:02
  Yeah, you either identify with him become more like him to gain
• 1:11:07
  her approval. What does she approve?
• 1:11:08
  About regarding him. How do I emulate that to gain
• 1:11:12
  approval or do I become a competitor and try and sabotage?
• 1:11:17
  There's a lot of and then if you start doing having relationships
• 1:11:21
  with people patterns of behavior with your parents that replicate
• 1:11:24
  over time, then you get into dysfunctional relationships as
• 1:11:27
  an adult with you. Again, this call goes back
• 1:11:29
  before he started all this conversation, but people, like I
• 1:11:32
  said, they poo poo at of Lego. Sure.
• 1:11:33
  Everything's about sex. It kind of is but not really.
• 1:11:37
  So yeah. Could you just let It could just
• 1:11:39
  be that the again those those those Primal feelings that you
• 1:11:43
  talked about that or they're just inherent in us at the very
• 1:11:46
  you know you go back far enough you know bunch of bunch of you
• 1:11:50
  know humanoids trying to stay warm and feed themselves and not
• 1:11:54
  get killed you know how does how do our how does the the spectrum
• 1:11:58
  of human emotion? The in The Human Experience how
• 1:12:01
  how broad the spectrum is has evolved over time and now we
• 1:12:04
  have such things, you know, psychology has really Broken it
• 1:12:09
  down into very specific categories where as you know and
• 1:12:12
  again not even though that long ago, it was much less granular.
• 1:12:18
  You know there really wasn't a whole lot of focus put on on
• 1:12:24
  these very specific parts of ourselves and interestingly
• 1:12:27
  enough like you were talking about you know it ego super-ego
• 1:12:31
  with with when it comes to like Altered States Of Consciousness
• 1:12:34
  when you're not you know, taking your sleep and then you Enter
• 1:12:39
  into a dream state and you have these experiences these like
• 1:12:42
  self-induced Altered States Of Consciousness.
• 1:12:45
  Whether it be through, psychoactive, substances or
• 1:12:48
  other. Sorts of things, not even that
• 1:12:50
  extreme like you can you can achieve a Altered States Of
• 1:12:54
  Consciousness, by just listening to music, you know, or exactly,
• 1:12:59
  you know, watching a lighting, a candle burning incense, you
• 1:13:03
  know, all these things that that have an impact on our state of
• 1:13:07
  consciousness and how We perceive things that's that's
• 1:13:11
  like an induced State, you know. So we have a bit more, I don't
• 1:13:14
  know if this you're the expert, is it, does it fall under the
• 1:13:17
  same category of what like lucid dreaming is where you?
• 1:13:21
  Yeah. Have like a control of this,
• 1:13:23
  you're not just, whatever happens happens when I fall
• 1:13:26
  asleep, you actually kind of take control of the steering
• 1:13:29
  wheel and drive. Yeah, there's a controversy with
• 1:13:31
  that too and I'm not sure which side to come down on it.
• 1:13:34
  So, okay, A little history of me and it feeds into My
• 1:13:39
  understanding, and my limitations, I typically sleep
• 1:13:43
  so deeply. I don't remember my dreams.
• 1:13:44
  It is very rare. I remember, I had a dream, it is
• 1:13:48
  extremely rare. I could tell you anything about
• 1:13:50
  it and it is almost unheard of literally, like five times in my
• 1:13:54
  entire life. 46 7, I don't know how old I am but literally there
• 1:13:58
  are 5 dreams. I can remember from my entire
• 1:14:01
  life. I just don't have that.
• 1:14:03
  You would say, I don't dream. Even though I think I do.
• 1:14:06
  I think everybody does the entire night constantly Non-Stop
• 1:14:08
  Stop. I just don't remember himself
• 1:14:10
  that feeds my understanding or limitations of dream experience.
• 1:14:14
  I'm not a lucid dreamer. Never have been.
• 1:14:17
  I've had literally one of the dreams I can remember is a
• 1:14:19
  flying dream, but it was not like soaring with ease over the
• 1:14:25
  over the trees that kind of a thing.
• 1:14:26
  It was a very different experience.
• 1:14:28
  So I'm Understanding a lot of these things conceptually based
• 1:14:33
  on the self-report of others. So there's mostly what I'm going
• 1:14:37
  on and you had an actual question there it was, what
• 1:14:41
  screams? Yeah, lucid dreams.
• 1:14:43
  And how or if that compares to Self-induced states of altered
• 1:14:50
  Consciousness, and how we're experiencing things that are
• 1:14:53
  really not our conscious experience.
• 1:14:55
  It's a either trance-like or meditative or hypnotic or
• 1:14:59
  something, you know. So the out here Lee, I'm sorry
• 1:15:03
  being purely. Neutral about it.
• 1:15:07
  We have another dichotomy, we have lucid dreams are absolutely
• 1:15:11
  a thing. You are having a conscious
• 1:15:12
  experience during the subconscious state which is this
• 1:15:15
  weird blending of, okay, that's one thing.
• 1:15:18
  The other side of it is you had a purely subconscious not
• 1:15:22
  controlled experience of dreaming.
• 1:15:26
  You had control of the dream, which that's possible.
• 1:15:30
  Now that's entirely discounted by.
• 1:15:32
  The people who have lucid dreams, they say that is not my
• 1:15:34
  experience. You can you tell the difference?
• 1:15:36
  I don't know, but I'm not here to argue that point necessarily,
• 1:15:40
  but if there is an experience, so if we take it seriously, you
• 1:15:43
  did have conscious control of your subconscious nocturnal
• 1:15:47
  Vision. If we take that seriously as a
• 1:15:49
  proposition, I would say, the most likely cause of that or way
• 1:15:54
  that that comes to be like, my Mike keeps falling down.
• 1:15:57
  I don't know anyway, and I'm chasing my face.
• 1:16:01
  I would say the way I think that comes to be is we are close
• 1:16:04
  enough. Enough.
• 1:16:05
  There's some I would say there's probably a biological or
• 1:16:09
  physical or psychological, cause that makes a lucid dreamer
• 1:16:15
  capable of lucid dreaming and other people not so much.
• 1:16:18
  There's something about of the ability to blend the Twilight
• 1:16:23
  between consciously being awake and being, you know, Unconscious
• 1:16:28
  enough to dream and not have control.
• 1:16:30
  That there's, there's some liminal space right on the edge
• 1:16:33
  where the magic of lucid dreaming is possible.
• 1:16:36
  And so one of the books, it's book six, I believe studies in
• 1:16:39
  Dreams by what's her name Mary, something Forrester Mary
• 1:16:44
  Forrester, something cheese, I can't remember.
• 1:16:46
  Anyway it's a book ABC book 6. It's called studies in dreams
• 1:16:49
  because she was a lucid dreamer and she was.
• 1:16:52
  So it's studies in dreams as in studying the phenomenon of dream
• 1:16:56
  phenomenon of Jeans and her own, personal quasi-scientific, case
• 1:17:01
  study of herself as a lucid dreamer experimenting with what
• 1:17:05
  can I do? Imagine what could I could, I
• 1:17:07
  program myself to have a specific kind of experience?
• 1:17:09
  And she, you know, as many lucid dreamers were tell, you will
• 1:17:12
  tell you, they can, they can say tonight, I will dream about XYZ
• 1:17:15
  and it happens. They that that's exactly the
• 1:17:17
  experience. They have.
• 1:17:19
  They carry that into their dreams.
• 1:17:21
  Did you have we're raising your hand or kind of a follow-up to
• 1:17:24
  that? Yeah.
• 1:17:25
  And I don't want to like Derail. If there was more to it, I can
• 1:17:28
  come back to it. But it kind of goes in that all
• 1:17:31
  one big. You really, we're just rambling
• 1:17:34
  here and it is random. And let's just ride this train
• 1:17:37
  wreck into the look into Oblivion, right into the
• 1:17:39
  Horizon, when when you awake from a dream that you were
• 1:17:45
  invested in, right? It was so interesting.
• 1:17:46
  It was so, you know you know, encapsulating, whatever you
• 1:17:51
  people that can go back to that dream after waking up again.
• 1:17:55
  Yeah, it is. That does that Boner, the same
• 1:17:57
  kind of category of having that like and I don't even know,
• 1:18:00
  like, how do you map that out? Like, this is what you have to
• 1:18:03
  do to get back into that dream. Is there like a guide to that?
• 1:18:06
  Or that's what? I don't know.
• 1:18:07
  Ya know, I wish I could good news, bad news.
• 1:18:09
  I think that's actually a thing. I think it does happen.
• 1:18:12
  I can't explain it. I couldn't tell you how to do
• 1:18:14
  it, but the self-report of people is that they have had
• 1:18:17
  that experience and it was by conscious choice, I fell asleep
• 1:18:20
  again to try and finish the dream and I did well, maybe
• 1:18:23
  there's some kind of active will people can impose Which causes
• 1:18:27
  that to happen. And maybe some people are
• 1:18:31
  constitutionally biologically capable and others less.
• 1:18:34
  So I look at it. Like I don't seem to remember
• 1:18:38
  many of my dreams at all and I don't I don't think it's
• 1:18:43
  possible but I don't think I am choosing not to.
• 1:18:46
  I don't think there's some part of me that's in denial.
• 1:18:48
  About the value of dreams that or is trying to protect myself
• 1:18:53
  from remembering these experiences.
• 1:18:55
  I don't think that's happening. It is Possible.
• 1:18:57
  But I don't think so. What's really interesting is
• 1:18:59
  this is the the career path. This is the field of expertise
• 1:19:03
  that you've landed in and you're the one that doesn't remember
• 1:19:07
  all your dreams, like how ironic is that, you know, that is very
• 1:19:10
  interesting and I almost look at that as like maybe that's why
• 1:19:13
  I'm fascinated by dreams. Is I can't remember.
• 1:19:15
  I don't have his active and Vivid a dream life as maybe I
• 1:19:18
  prefer. So I'm going to study it as a
• 1:19:20
  phenomenon, I'm kind of denied. So I'm looking into it you know
• 1:19:24
  the this a deep mystery because it's Experience I can.
• 1:19:27
  Well then a lot of people who wrote these books, they got into
• 1:19:30
  it because they're such vivid dreamers and they have such
• 1:19:33
  intense dream experiences that that's where their Fascination
• 1:19:36
  came from. I think, part of this for me is
• 1:19:39
  not just that it because that's a very real and likely cause the
• 1:19:44
  other side of it is that I found that kind of accidentally
• 1:19:48
  discovered. I had a talent for it, and then
• 1:19:50
  I'm kind of leaning into the talent of like, you know, if you
• 1:19:52
  are someone says, hey, you're pretty good at basketball and
• 1:19:55
  you should try out for the team and you do and you find out, you
• 1:19:58
  know, if I work at this, I get better and I'm actually pretty
• 1:20:01
  good. So there's a lot of that
• 1:20:02
  secondary gained not secondary, game primary gain of being
• 1:20:06
  becoming competent in something where you have an innate Talent,
• 1:20:08
  there's the dog. Yeah, he's sleeping the whole
• 1:20:11
  time now he's getting comfy. I'll tell that story really
• 1:20:14
  briefly, I mean, how did I discover this?
• 1:20:16
  I was in college for psychology, I figured some day, I was going
• 1:20:18
  to hang out a shingle, be a private counselor and do that
• 1:20:21
  whole thing that never ended up happening.
• 1:20:23
  But what I was taking a history and systems of Psych class and
• 1:20:26
  they're Going through, I mean psychology has its roots in
• 1:20:31
  Greek philosophy it goes way back to Socrates asking
• 1:20:36
  questions to find out what people think and believe may be
• 1:20:39
  challenging some beliefs that seem irrational.
• 1:20:42
  If we challenge irrational beliefs, do they does the life
• 1:20:45
  of the person improved? Because now they're making
• 1:20:47
  better decisions. Bam, I'm it's a roots of
• 1:20:49
  psychology, long story short, brings us up to Freud and Jung
• 1:20:52
  and I got to give so much credit to those guys.
• 1:20:54
  We got into the part of the book was like, and then in the 1900s,
• 1:20:58
  the history of psychology, they started looking at dreams.
• 1:21:00
  Seriously. And here are these, the Freudian
• 1:21:03
  and the jungian approach to dreams and it's amazing and
• 1:21:07
  coincidental that I was able to take two dreams.
• 1:21:09
  One that I'd had several years before in my life and one that
• 1:21:12
  I'd had recently and bring them to the class.
• 1:21:17
  I wrote one or two pages on each dream, detailing it giving my
• 1:21:20
  analysis specifically through the lens of what Freud would
• 1:21:24
  tell me about my own dream and what you Would tell me and the
• 1:21:27
  teacher gave me an a. For both paper saying you nailed
• 1:21:31
  it, you showed an understanding of how they would apply their
• 1:21:34
  theories to your dreams. Good job.
• 1:21:36
  I could have made it all up, but at least I demonstrated with the
• 1:21:39
  understanding of it. Yeah.
• 1:21:41
  That particular imagery would be viewed by these guys in this
• 1:21:44
  way. And I was like, I mean, I
• 1:21:48
  really, I means, I'm getting feedback from one teacher on,
• 1:21:51
  you know, a couple of papers and but that made me think, you
• 1:21:55
  know, maybe I should talk to And so, I throughout my life, I've
• 1:21:58
  had a fascination with. Well, what if, what if this
• 1:22:01
  person told me their dreams, could I tell them anything
• 1:22:03
  useful to themselves, that would feel meaningful to them, and
• 1:22:06
  would give them some benefit in their life through that
• 1:22:09
  understanding and the ability to put it into practice and my
• 1:22:14
  talent, we might say, was repeatedly validated of people
• 1:22:17
  saying that makes sense and it made my life better and I'm
• 1:22:21
  like, well, well Goddamn I'm doing good.
• 1:22:24
  I'm glad you're saving the world one person at a time.
• 1:22:26
  In the through their do they're nocturnal Visions, you know?
• 1:22:29
  So yeah, about three years ago, I decided I'm going to try and
• 1:22:31
  make this my profession. I'm going to try and become an
• 1:22:34
  actual wizard of Dreams. A wise one who has by virtue of
• 1:22:39
  study and application and practice and you know, knowledge
• 1:22:44
  and whatnot is able to do this for a living, so we'll see.
• 1:22:47
  We'll see. Yeah, I'm not a not quite
• 1:22:49
  breaking even yet need to sell a few more books but that's,
• 1:22:51
  that's the idea on the way. Yeah, I hope so.
• 1:22:54
  And it's all these little little things like you know what to
• 1:22:56
  say? They say it takes ten years to
• 1:22:57
  become an overnight success except I got seven years ago.
• 1:23:01
  So we're still in process work in progress.
• 1:23:04
  That's great. Do you what would you say has
• 1:23:07
  been your most Profound or impactful.
• 1:23:11
  Dream interpretation thus far. Like that.
• 1:23:15
  You've given to someone. Yeah.
• 1:23:18
  So one of the things I enjoy the most about this experience is
• 1:23:22
  getting to a moment where I see the, you know the light bulb go
• 1:23:25
  on with someone. I see the Epiphany hit them and
• 1:23:27
  they're like, oh my God, that's what that means.
• 1:23:31
  And I get a visceral feeling of Zing of like I did it opened it
• 1:23:35
  again. Oh my God, because I go in each
• 1:23:36
  of these terrified I'm going to be able to give you nothing.
• 1:23:40
  Sorry, thanks for trying. But for whatever man I got, this
• 1:23:44
  is why I leaned into the idea of magic is for whatever reason.
• 1:23:48
  I am opening myself up to some how are the universe that by
• 1:23:54
  being willing to embrace it chooses to flow through me and
• 1:23:57
  be of benefit to someone else? I almost feel like this is not
• 1:24:00
  me. This is the only choice I have
• 1:24:02
  is whether to open myself to that higher power.
• 1:24:05
  So when people say, what do you think you talk to God, talks to
• 1:24:08
  me, I mean, not in a voice, I don't hear voices.
• 1:24:11
  I don't think I'm channeling the spirit of God.
• 1:24:12
  The god energy that the I want the best for you.
• 1:24:15
  I'm going to do everything. I can to achieve that.
• 1:24:17
  I opened myself to it and it happens and it's almost like
• 1:24:19
  it's not even me. I don't want to take that kind
• 1:24:21
  of, you know, it's glory, glory to the most high wasn't even me.
• 1:24:24
  I tell you, what do you say is like not my pride, but my
• 1:24:28
  humbleness in that way is like yeah, Supreme supremely humble
• 1:24:31
  right now. I can tell, you know, I mean you
• 1:24:34
  your genuine about it and that's dry it.
• 1:24:37
  Yeah, one of the things that I like to see across, anybody
• 1:24:41
  really that, I that, I that I encounter, whether it's on the
• 1:24:44
  podcast or in real life, you know, face-to-face is Genuine,
• 1:24:50
  the genuineness of it, you know, why, why are you doing what
• 1:24:54
  you're doing? You know, because so many so
• 1:24:56
  many people that I that I come across especially in this
• 1:25:00
  particular, I mean, it's a pea than podcast, right.
• 1:25:02
  So I know people that are heathens themselves, pagans
• 1:25:04
  themselves and that, you know, they ask questions, you know
• 1:25:07
  what should I do for this particular thing that's
• 1:25:11
  happening or which God should, I should I invoke for this or that
• 1:25:15
  and I, you know, the thing I was Back to is, well, why do you
• 1:25:19
  even want to do this, you know, are you doing this?
• 1:25:23
  Because you read it in a book somewhere and that's how those
• 1:25:25
  people did it, or do you have a purpose?
• 1:25:27
  Is it Purpose Driven? You know, there's, there's a
• 1:25:30
  difference. I feel between intent and
• 1:25:32
  purpose. Like, yes, you have to have an
• 1:25:33
  intention but the purpose behind, it is not the same thing
• 1:25:37
  as your intention, you know, be haven't entered what you're
• 1:25:39
  doing, but you know, be genuine about it.
• 1:25:41
  But the reasons, why, why are we doing what we're doing?
• 1:25:44
  And you had a, you know, you found a purpose.
• 1:25:46
  You You've kind of, like you said, you leaned into that thing
• 1:25:51
  that you were given validation on at that one point in time,
• 1:25:56
  you know? And you're like, yeah, maybe
• 1:25:57
  let's, let's explore this. Let's, let's go into this a bit
• 1:26:00
  more and you talked about, you know, opening yourself up to the
• 1:26:05
  universe and and that's a very, I don't know, like I've talked
• 1:26:09
  to a lot of different people from lot of different walks of
• 1:26:11
  life and they I'm seeing a repeated theme that more people
• 1:26:16
  are realizing Seeing the just how connected not even really
• 1:26:21
  connected but how much a part of the universe that we are?
• 1:26:23
  We're not we're not just on this Earth.
• 1:26:25
  We are this Earth You know we're not just sailing through this
• 1:26:30
  Oblivion of a universe all willy-nilly.
• 1:26:33
  Like there are patterns there are trajectories there are
• 1:26:36
  things that are happening to each and every one of us for a
• 1:26:39
  reason we there is purpose behind this seemingly chaotic
• 1:26:42
  mess of a world of a life and when When like you said, when
• 1:26:48
  you open ourselves up to that, we are no longer wondering about
• 1:26:52
  things where, like, oh, I get it.
• 1:26:54
  I'm we're putting ourselves into that flow and we're allowing
• 1:26:59
  things that are already happening to be meaningful for
• 1:27:02
  us and by doing that with other people there, they're seeing
• 1:27:04
  that too and stuff, like what you're doing and and others, you
• 1:27:07
  know, there, They are putting all the pieces together we're
• 1:27:12
  not, we're not feeling so disassociated anymore we're
• 1:27:14
  actually feeling like a part of things for sure.
• 1:27:17
  Exactly. Again go back to say, You Know,
• 1:27:19
  Carl Jung, I mean he's Rich towering Giants in the field of
• 1:27:22
  for a lot of reasons. He was in his latter years
• 1:27:25
  trying to figure out. Okay, what's the difference
• 1:27:26
  between this The Experience I'm having and the experience of
• 1:27:31
  schizophrenic because he's like he felt like he did not fit any
• 1:27:35
  classic symptoms of psychosis but how to tell the difference?
• 1:27:40
  What am I? So he had this experience, he
• 1:27:42
  called synchronicity and it was and he gives a tremendous
• 1:27:45
  example, which I think some of them are real.
• 1:27:47
  And some of them were what if examples of this is how it
• 1:27:51
  works. But, you know, he woke up from
• 1:27:54
  having a dream about fish and it turns out that the his cooked
• 1:27:57
  had decided to serve fish, With breakfast and then he walks to
• 1:28:00
  meet client and it turns that the turns out that the, you
• 1:28:03
  know, Pub he went at, this is not the actual story but the
• 1:28:05
  puppy went to had a fish for their sign and he's like, what
• 1:28:08
  is going on with fish today? And then it turns out the guy
• 1:28:10
  serving drinks at the bar. His name is mr.
• 1:28:12
  Fishburne, what is going on with all these fish?
• 1:28:14
  And that's like the universe could things coming too and it's
• 1:28:17
  hard. Not to look at that and go.
• 1:28:18
  Whoa, this is beyond random that this could not happen randomly
• 1:28:23
  or it's like one. So and then you start looking
• 1:28:26
  for. Okay?
• 1:28:26
  What if you know, if you're going to make To be going to put
• 1:28:29
  it to some some use. Well then he actually say, you
• 1:28:31
  know, like had a client that came in and she had a dream
• 1:28:33
  about a giant fish, and okay, so something this is where he got
• 1:28:37
  his theory of the collective unconscious that people are
• 1:28:39
  connected or were collected. Some, you connect to some
• 1:28:41
  Universal source that that gets into the idea, psychic powers
• 1:28:45
  and dreams Clairvoyance dreams about disasters.
• 1:28:47
  There's uncounted numbers of those.
• 1:28:50
  People had dreams about the Titanic before went down.
• 1:28:52
  You know, that kind of stuff before.
• 1:28:55
  I forget this, you had did ask a question.
• 1:28:56
  It came back to me the favorite dream, And this also gets in the
• 1:29:00
  idea of recurring dreams and I would say, I had an eye-opening
• 1:29:03
  moment episode 12. The Guy brought me is a military
• 1:29:10
  veteran who was having recurring dreams and I'm like, okay Curry,
• 1:29:14
  it's early in my career, it's episode 12.
• 1:29:16
  I've only done two 1011 interviews before that and my
• 1:29:19
  theory of Dreams is still developing and it turns out that
• 1:29:24
  from our discussion, our analysis of the dream, the Dream
• 1:29:29
  experience came back, but it changed.
• 1:29:31
  Now, his recurring dream had a new feature.
• 1:29:34
  So it long story short, he was the recurring dream, was he goes
• 1:29:37
  into a house. He moves through a room,
• 1:29:40
  multiple rooms full of people that he's not interacting with
• 1:29:43
  and he's doing it as if he's sweeping the house, like
• 1:29:47
  military style like Rika Rika, like a recon mission, he gets to
• 1:29:50
  the back yard. And there are these shadow
• 1:29:52
  people that will not allow him to move forward and if he tries
• 1:29:57
  to push past Past him, they beat him up.
• 1:29:59
  This was the original Dream and he's like, what does this mean?
• 1:30:02
  So we talked about it and he said he actually got back to me
• 1:30:04
  and said I had the same dream. This time.
• 1:30:07
  I didn't try to push past the shadow people and we got along
• 1:30:11
  great. They talk to me.
• 1:30:13
  They, let me know, they were looking out for me that so there
• 1:30:16
  was something represented in that imagery.
• 1:30:18
  That's like you're not ready to move Beyond this point yet.
• 1:30:22
  If you if you if you do, so it won't be good for you.
• 1:30:26
  So we're not going to allow it whatever those Shit that does
• 1:30:29
  Shadow elements of himself were saying.
• 1:30:31
  This is, this is for your own good.
• 1:30:33
  If we have to beat you up to stop, you were going to do that.
• 1:30:35
  Yeah. And so the best interest in
• 1:30:38
  mind. Yeah.
• 1:30:38
  Yeah. And if they don't know it's in,
• 1:30:40
  do I believe it's, you know, literally Shadow creatures that
• 1:30:43
  came into his dream From Another Dimension.
• 1:30:44
  I don't think so. I think it's just an element of
• 1:30:46
  himself recognizing there's something.
• 1:30:50
  I need to confront and understand and I need to be in a
• 1:30:53
  better more psychologically, healthy place before I confront
• 1:30:57
  this. So I'm Not going to handle this
• 1:30:59
  until I'm ready. Fantastic.
• 1:31:02
  Walk a lot big Meta Picture. Why was this one of my favorite
• 1:31:05
  favorite jeans? It opened my eyes to the idea
• 1:31:07
  that the proof of whether a dream interpretation was valid
• 1:31:14
  in a sense is whether it's a a recurring dream, will change its
• 1:31:18
  nature because my theory again, personally developing Theory.
• 1:31:23
  We y do dreams come back because there's a specific idea.
• 1:31:29
  That we have not come to an understanding of where made a
• 1:31:32
  decision about and until we do until we settle the matter.
• 1:31:37
  In our mind until we say, I believe this and I'm ready to
• 1:31:40
  move forward. That comes back to tell us.
• 1:31:45
  Okay, let's have a look at this again and most likely it's tied
• 1:31:47
  to something in your life where you had another experience of
• 1:31:51
  that kind recently, bam. The iconic imagery of that kind
• 1:31:57
  of experience comes back. To your mind.
• 1:31:59
  And now you're considering the problem again, it is a trigger.
• 1:32:03
  Yeah, it's a trick literally physical.
• 1:32:05
  Real life situation, triggers, mental exploration of the
• 1:32:09
  concept one more time. And these recurring dreams, they
• 1:32:12
  crystallize around the different images representing the
• 1:32:15
  different things because that's the strongest representation of
• 1:32:19
  what the thing actually is in your mirror.
• 1:32:22
  And that's why you can't say seashells mean the same thing to
• 1:32:25
  every person because It might need some to you in some
• 1:32:29
  different to someone else, but it is still the same image, but
• 1:32:32
  it means something different based on your personal
• 1:32:34
  experience. Yeah, no, I had a dream like
• 1:32:36
  that actually Well, and say a dream like that but metaphors,
• 1:32:42
  right? Like the it, like the shadow
• 1:32:44
  people in this dream that you were just talking about.
• 1:32:46
  Like it's not literally shadow people, but it's the
• 1:32:48
  metaphysical or the representation of that thing.
• 1:32:52
  Yeah, that can become, that's how his mind or their mind.
• 1:32:57
  Rationalize our formulated the the image of what was actually
• 1:33:02
  happening and I had a dream with my mom in it and it was a like I
• 1:33:08
  was laying on his bed. Don't know where I was.
• 1:33:11
  That's another weird thing. This is the the dreams that
• 1:33:14
  we're, we're somewhere that we've never we have no memory of
• 1:33:18
  ever being there. It's a foreign place but yet we
• 1:33:21
  feel like comfortable there, you know, it's not like visiting it
• 1:33:24
  a new house or a new place for the first time in your feel
• 1:33:26
  awkward about it, this wasn't it, but it was definitely a room
• 1:33:30
  of the bed and I you know can't say I'd recognize it and it was
• 1:33:35
  I was laying on the bed and it was like daylight And my mom was
• 1:33:40
  in the room, but she wasn't saying anything and then all of
• 1:33:43
  a sudden it was almost like, you know, how when you're in a
• 1:33:46
  theater and the lights are on, and then they dim the lights for
• 1:33:48
  the show to start. That's, that's literally how it
• 1:33:52
  went from Bright to dim almost dark in the room, but it was
• 1:33:56
  kind of like a hue of Candlelight.
• 1:33:58
  It was, it was you could see, but it wasn't pitch black and
• 1:34:03
  She was just like sitting there. I was laying on the bed and she
• 1:34:05
  was just sitting there beside me and she would just, you know,
• 1:34:10
  she was kind of like just watching just looking at me and
• 1:34:14
  wouldn't say a word and I'm like why aren't you talking to me?
• 1:34:16
  Like you got something to say like I'm sitting here laying or
• 1:34:19
  something saying she would just There was nothing.
• 1:34:21
  There was no voice coming out of her and that dream always like,
• 1:34:26
  even to this day, I'm like, I think I get it, you know,
• 1:34:29
  because there's there's like communication challenges and
• 1:34:32
  stuff with my life with my mom. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:34:36
  And, but just being there, present, but having nothing to
• 1:34:40
  say, you know, it's like she'll talk to me at times or she has
• 1:34:44
  in the past but again, that the lights dimming, you know, like
• 1:34:48
  that element of things where it was bright and all A sudden it
• 1:34:51
  got dark you know I still like have a still haven't landed on
• 1:34:58
  what that could potentially mean or represent.
• 1:35:01
  This was a one-off that just stuck with you or a recurring
• 1:35:04
  pattern that comes with the one-off one is the one I care
• 1:35:07
  enough and they mean different things.
• 1:35:08
  I mean you must have At least subconsciously come to some
• 1:35:16
  resolution about it. That made it not a recurring
• 1:35:19
  problem, you're considering something specific and
• 1:35:21
  formulated that as a process of imagery and experience to
• 1:35:25
  encapsulate the concept and and you were able to settle it in
• 1:35:30
  some way that I mean, not settle it enough to put it to bed but
• 1:35:33
  it does not represent a recurrent theme of an ongoing
• 1:35:38
  problem that you have not resolved.
• 1:35:40
  So that's what I think. Recurring dreams are, of course.
• 1:35:45
  Well, this gets into and this is great to have.
• 1:35:46
  So, you're now you're in acting in some ways, the role of a
• 1:35:50
  guest on the show. And I kind of proud of myself
• 1:35:52
  for my found, the Swiss cheese. Hold telling people, remember
• 1:35:54
  what you said. Yeah.
• 1:35:55
  I guess. Yeah.
• 1:35:57
  So, okay. So two things were going to get
• 1:35:59
  there, just brief tangent. I give a lot of credit and draw
• 1:36:03
  a lot of inspiration from Freud and Jung, but also a guy who
• 1:36:06
  still live today is a teacher from the University of Santa
• 1:36:08
  Cruz G. William called me, Bill, Dom
• 1:36:11
  Hoff a great guy. He is a An ongoing project
• 1:36:13
  called The Dream Bank, where people can fill out a survey at
• 1:36:16
  streambank dotnet I believe and you can fill out a little survey
• 1:36:19
  thing of. Okay.
• 1:36:20
  Here, I'm going to tell you about my dream.
• 1:36:22
  Here are the discrete elements now.
• 1:36:23
  Why, why do I reference him? And why is he an influential
• 1:36:27
  figure on my, on my dream, interpretation Brooke?
• 1:36:29
  What he does is he he's has anymore Quantitative approach to
• 1:36:35
  dreams. He wants to know how many people
• 1:36:38
  were in it. How many animals were in it?
• 1:36:40
  How many buildings or structures of, what kind how many emotional
• 1:36:45
  experiences, how many auditory experiences very much?
• 1:36:48
  And he's trying to build statistics that we need this
• 1:36:50
  kind of research. Okay.
• 1:36:51
  What is, what is going on here? But that, so I could then I go
• 1:36:54
  to the meta level and I'm like don't forget to do that, don't
• 1:36:57
  forget to kind of name and account for not just the
• 1:37:02
  narrative. But the elements of the
• 1:37:04
  narrative. So this is where I go into.
• 1:37:05
  Okay, let's name the things. You're in a bed in a room that
• 1:37:09
  is in a house and there's lights.
• 1:37:11
  These are all the discrete that your mother is there and there
• 1:37:14
  is no speaking. So this is like really I did.
• 1:37:16
  So I do those things kind of intuitively as we go along, but
• 1:37:20
  I try to also keep it in my mind, don't leave anything out
• 1:37:23
  and we get we get very granular in this type of thing.
• 1:37:25
  So, granular, word back to you, but I get Gregor was a good way
• 1:37:32
  to put it of We go into so much detail.
• 1:37:34
  Like, I want to know, what direction were you facing?
• 1:37:36
  And what did you move one? Leg first, which side of the
• 1:37:39
  bed? Did you get off of them?
• 1:37:40
  If you stood up, how many lights were in the room?
• 1:37:42
  What kind of lights were there? Was your mother dressed in a
• 1:37:44
  particular way? Did you have any concept of
• 1:37:46
  seeing yourself or just, this was your visual experience
• 1:37:50
  seeing others as if you were looking up from the bed or were
• 1:37:54
  you third person watching a scene?
• 1:37:55
  You saw yourself in bed, these are all different kinds of
• 1:37:58
  experiences and kind of leaving them out.
• 1:38:01
  Throws off the Throws off the math in some ways.
• 1:38:05
  Sometimes I would say, almost always, I forget things and
• 1:38:10
  leave things out. We go off on tangents and I'm
• 1:38:13
  not as structured or I don't even understand my own process.
• 1:38:15
  This is all intuitive. What I'm doing is working
• 1:38:18
  backwards from. What the hell do I do?
• 1:38:20
  I haven't built a process and now I'm testing it like a real
• 1:38:22
  scientist. I'm like, here's something I do
• 1:38:23
  intuitively. What am I actually doing?
• 1:38:26
  And I've come to be able to describe it a little bit better.
• 1:38:29
  It's a long story or broad Strokes.
• 1:38:30
  I have a three-part Sense, which is first I shut up and listen I
• 1:38:34
  got to listen to the story. I got it, I got to get it from
• 1:38:36
  you, unfiltered tell it like you experienced it.
• 1:38:40
  Chronological narrative style this happened, then this
• 1:38:42
  happened and that happened and then we go back through it
• 1:38:45
  again, for what I call a deep dive and that deep dive if we
• 1:38:47
  were doing say, jungian dream analysis that would be weeks
• 1:38:52
  weeks worth of multiple sessions per week returning to the same
• 1:38:55
  dream. And so I'm trying to condense
• 1:38:58
  that a little bit into, you know, it's like I've said in the
• 1:39:01
  past have gone four and a half hours One person.
• 1:39:03
  And that was because they had three four, five discrete
• 1:39:06
  segments of a dream that we're all connected to each other in
• 1:39:09
  sequence. But could have could have, we
• 1:39:12
  could have done a whole episode in each dream.
• 1:39:15
  Yeah. Or is it going that the idea of
• 1:39:18
  being a guest on the show? I did want to say this.
• 1:39:19
  So I think there's some folks out there who are like this is
• 1:39:22
  fascinating, I'd love to get an analysis but I don't want to be
• 1:39:25
  on camera and I get that like in the very beginning I didn't have
• 1:39:29
  my face on camera. I think it was the podcast that
• 1:39:31
  no one needs to see me and I got advice from a friend of like,
• 1:39:34
  you need to be on video. People want to watch something,
• 1:39:36
  they want to see who you are, they want to well, you know your
• 1:39:38
  mannerisms and face to the name, amazing, the name, their
• 1:39:41
  branding, and what not? And the reason I grew up wizard
• 1:39:43
  Harry wants his two-day rocking it.
• 1:39:47
  Yeah, I should it. Oh, and I said this before, it
• 1:39:49
  is the return of the Uber poofy, Super Saiyan freshly showered
• 1:39:52
  wizard hair. It gets frizzy as my Scottish
• 1:39:55
  roots of like, you can kind of see how frigid is its monstrous
• 1:39:59
  and that's yeah, I got a kick out of it too.
• 1:40:02
  Mostly it's up in a ponytail because I sweat like a pig and
• 1:40:04
  it's hot here in Portland, Oregon, but being a guest on the
• 1:40:07
  show there are it is preferable, you're on camera.
• 1:40:11
  You don't have to be we can use a fake name, I can put up a
• 1:40:13
  video Loop and people hear your voice and we don't Say where
• 1:40:16
  you're from. We don't say your real name.
• 1:40:18
  When you talk about your dream, this is a promise I make to
• 1:40:21
  everyone. I just like you did in the
• 1:40:24
  beginning. You said I'm not recording right
• 1:40:25
  now so we're just talking. We always talk before I record.
• 1:40:28
  I never record without permission, I never release an
• 1:40:31
  episode without permission, I will always edit an episode.
• 1:40:34
  I had a guy once request me, hey, that 30 seconds, where I
• 1:40:37
  talked about my niece because it was related to the dream, she
• 1:40:41
  doesn't have my, I don't have her permission to put her
• 1:40:43
  business out there. Can we?
• 1:40:44
  I'm a camera froze. Again, I'm going to to try and
• 1:40:46
  fix it to Second. Are you good?
• 1:40:48
  Yeah, you're fine. It's a thing.
• 1:40:51
  Yeah protecting people's you know anonymity or their their
• 1:40:57
  privacy is an important thing especially.
• 1:40:59
  Yeah you're here especially when it comes to things like you know
• 1:41:02
  such intimate moments of what happens in a dream or are other
• 1:41:06
  things that can kind of trickle off into the tributaries.
• 1:41:10
  You know like oh sure I remember that one thing and you start
• 1:41:12
  mentioning stuff in any go back. Yeah.
• 1:41:14
  Maybe that should have should have redacted that or it's
• 1:41:17
  something and I probably shouldn't have mentioned.
• 1:41:19
  It was a Email dreamer. But I've had like 50 60 of them
• 1:41:22
  so you're not going to be able to tell which episode it was.
• 1:41:25
  But I took that 30 seconds out no one ever heard it and it did
• 1:41:28
  it didn't affect anything. I do.
• 1:41:30
  Okay. So that's a second.
• 1:41:31
  That's two promises I make people.
• 1:41:33
  Do you will not be surprised recorded.
• 1:41:35
  You will not be, you know, Jerry Springer.
• 1:41:37
  We're not here to embarrass anyone.
• 1:41:39
  And the third promise is any reason or no reason at all 10?
• 1:41:42
  20 years from now, you do not want your video on my channel.
• 1:41:45
  It's gone. I, I don't have people sign
• 1:41:47
  releases. There's just my good faith.
• 1:41:49
  Ethical problem. Yes, I will treat you like the
• 1:41:52
  most important part of this experience and it doesn't matter
• 1:41:56
  to the show. It doesn't, you know, I'm not
• 1:41:58
  putting me or the show or my content or my money or whatever
• 1:42:01
  forever. I'm not making, you know, enough
• 1:42:03
  to be worried about that right now but still, that's my end.
• 1:42:05
  Okay. Now why do I do that?
• 1:42:06
  Because that's who I am. That's my genuine.
• 1:42:09
  I believe that is ethically necessary.
• 1:42:12
  That's the ethical side of things.
• 1:42:14
  I believe this is good. Therefore, it is what I do.
• 1:42:16
  No questions asked Also it is a practical necessity because
• 1:42:22
  really, if you're going to be doing intensely in to be going
• 1:42:26
  to open your head to someone else, you need to know, you can
• 1:42:30
  trust them to treat you. Well I have your best interest
• 1:42:33
  at heart or you're not going to speak freely.
• 1:42:36
  You're going to censor yourself. Oh no, I'm in public.
• 1:42:39
  I'm I don't want to be embarrassed.
• 1:42:41
  I don't want to admit to something that I'm not ready to
• 1:42:44
  you're gay and you're in the closet.
• 1:42:45
  And you're like, I don't want to say that publicly.
• 1:42:47
  Well, that's what the dream was about but you can't Go there
• 1:42:49
  because your sensor and excuse the read I guess.
• 1:42:53
  Well you just don't use the interpretation.
• 1:42:55
  Yeah, absolutely. So that's what people need to
• 1:42:58
  know going in. Hey, we can go anywhere with
• 1:43:01
  this dream and you can be absolutely certain, no one will
• 1:43:05
  ever see it if you don't want him to.
• 1:43:06
  I have not had the experience of people refusing to allow me to
• 1:43:11
  release an episode. That's good.
• 1:43:14
  But I'm serious about it and I have made edits by Numerous
• 1:43:20
  times to say, hey, that part where I spoke about that other
• 1:43:23
  person. I don't like the way I said that
• 1:43:25
  it doesn't really Express what I, what I truly feel or it's
• 1:43:29
  going to cause problems in a relationship.
• 1:43:30
  Please take it out. You know, this is that is
• 1:43:33
  personal private and I make the deletion.
• 1:43:36
  I've actually edited a video together by a person said,
• 1:43:40
  here's the time stamps of the things.
• 1:43:41
  I'd like removed. I put it together, sent it to
• 1:43:43
  that person and they gave their stamp of approval.
• 1:43:47
  And if they said, I changed my mind.
• 1:43:49
  And it done goes in the garbage if I just draw it on my computer
• 1:43:52
  and even keep copy so it was really Noble.
• 1:43:56
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:43:56
  Well thank you very much. I got I'm not don't don't don't
• 1:43:59
  apply. Just throw money.
• 1:44:02
  That's just how I have that. I can't do this any other way.
• 1:44:05
  I can't be a grifter. I can't be, that's not my jam.
• 1:44:11
  There's so much of it out there, dude.
• 1:44:13
  I mean there's so many people like you say that's just eating
• 1:44:15
  its copy paste, this or they, they buy a book.
• 1:44:19
  Or they watch a few YouTube videos, or they, you know, watch
• 1:44:23
  a movie. Even, I mean, I can't tell you
• 1:44:25
  like, cosplay, you use the light to turn larpers in the Pagan
• 1:44:29
  Community, as people always like, to dress up and look, the
• 1:44:31
  part like, but are you really that thing even titles, you
• 1:44:35
  know, like you use the title, you know, the dream wizard,
• 1:44:39
  that, that is a title that can carry for some people a really
• 1:44:44
  You know, that means something, you know, the title wizard like
• 1:44:46
  the instant especially in some circles, you know, to have the
• 1:44:48
  name like that. Like that means something and it
• 1:44:50
  has. Yeah, you know, an obligation
• 1:44:53
  and responsibility that goes with it.
• 1:44:54
  And so, you know, I've known people that will I don't know,
• 1:45:00
  like they they buy the clothes or they they put on the costume
• 1:45:04
  and, you know, they post one or two videos and next thing, you
• 1:45:07
  know, they're calling themselves like a shaman or something.
• 1:45:09
  Like you sumbitch, like you have no business using.
• 1:45:13
  First of all, I don't, I don't really get into the self title
• 1:45:18
  of people. Like, if you're gonna give
• 1:45:19
  yourself a title like that, then you're probably not it.
• 1:45:24
  Those titles. Yeah, come to you from the
• 1:45:26
  people who recognize you as such But you know what I mean?
• 1:45:30
  Absolutely, you are what you are because that's what the populace
• 1:45:34
  has deemed you to be the towel always was, you know, the the
• 1:45:37
  people knew who the shaman was because, well, we've seen him do
• 1:45:41
  is studying or her thing, right? Like yeah, the the those titles
• 1:45:45
  were given based off of what the people did or what that person
• 1:45:49
  did. So, you know, and there are
• 1:45:51
  there so many, you know, I as a pagan like and this isn't this
• 1:45:56
  isn't like an open umbrella term or a no.
• 1:45:59
  Rela statement that covers all people in paganism but I
• 1:46:02
  divination is a part of my practices, right?
• 1:46:05
  So I use runes for divination but I've been doing it for I
• 1:46:11
  don't know since like 2017 or so you know so I got a few years
• 1:46:14
  under me like I've done enough and I've got enough experience
• 1:46:19
  in it where People will recognize what I've done in and
• 1:46:24
  say, I love your readings. I love what you do.
• 1:46:26
  I love your castings, right? So to be called a, whatever, you
• 1:46:29
  know, Vicki or whatever. It's like, that's what has
• 1:46:32
  people know me as in certain contexts, you know?
• 1:46:36
  I mean, it's not that I just picked up a set of runes off of
• 1:46:38
  Amazon, and got a book and like I'm a big key now or I'm a bruin
• 1:46:41
  reader, you know? It's that is, that is the title
• 1:46:45
  for the behavior or the role Vicki roon roon Caster.
• 1:46:50
  Is it related? Wizard, like why is Vicky vizard
• 1:46:53
  that kind of thing? There are some etymological
• 1:46:56
  similarities. Like there's a forget the actual
• 1:46:59
  what the, what the word but warlock is another one and it
• 1:47:02
  has those words are cognate. Yeah.
• 1:47:08
  And so I think this goes to the archetypal level of things have
• 1:47:11
  like, we have y, and I've gone into this, I have one video out
• 1:47:14
  there. It's, I keep starting new
• 1:47:16
  playlists on there. So I've got me, you know, my abc
• 1:47:18
  series of placement Dreamscapes, my my What Dreams May Come.
• 1:47:21
  Is just the three minutes of a person, telling their Journey.
• 1:47:24
  Nothing else, that's it. If you didn't, you can look at
• 1:47:26
  those to see, do I want to watch this episode of my interested in
• 1:47:28
  this particular mystery? This dream description, why?
• 1:47:31
  I started a new channel called in cantus phylactery.
• 1:47:34
  Mm, the like the container for my words, the place I keep my
• 1:47:36
  words and the second episode of that was or the first steps.
• 1:47:40
  I can't remember. What the hell is a dream wizard.
• 1:47:42
  Anyway, what do I mean by that? So we have the archetype of the
• 1:47:44
  Wizard and why is it an old man with a long beard walks with the
• 1:47:50
  staff? Why did speaks magic words,
• 1:47:54
  scribes in a crystal ball? Spends all the secretive or, or
• 1:47:58
  a reclusive time and at our studying ancient, esoteric
• 1:48:01
  texts, all of those things have meaning, you have a long grey
• 1:48:05
  beard because you're old, you've been around, you seen some
• 1:48:08
  things you walk with the staff because maybe your legs don't
• 1:48:10
  work so good anymore. The speaking of magic words, I
• 1:48:14
  think of as it's like psychology like if I can listen to you and
• 1:48:19
  help draw from you, what you Maybe I can find some words of
• 1:48:23
  wisdom or advice or framing a perspective that will have the
• 1:48:29
  the transformative magic of allowing you to change something
• 1:48:32
  in your life, you want to do better.
• 1:48:34
  And then the idea of that scrying, in a crystal ball, you
• 1:48:36
  can see the future. Because you understand, cause
• 1:48:38
  and effect and it's not, I mean it's meant that I think this is
• 1:48:41
  all magic even if you can't exactly explain it as let me
• 1:48:45
  tell you I'm an old man. I been there.
• 1:48:46
  I done that. Don't do that.
• 1:48:48
  You're going to screw up your life kid.
• 1:48:49
  That's a wizard. That's a width in it.
• 1:48:51
  Maybe the old guy down at the The Sausage Shop was saying,
• 1:48:54
  well, you don't Mikey don't do that shit.
• 1:48:56
  Yeah, you know, and the same thing with these study of the
• 1:48:59
  esoteric text to you kind of know things that other people
• 1:49:02
  don't because you invest the time to study it.
• 1:49:04
  You've done the research and and the intense thinking necessary.
• 1:49:08
  So you put all these things together and you got a wizard.
• 1:49:10
  So but this is very important to like there are a lot of self
• 1:49:14
  titled people and I am absolutely self-titled.
• 1:49:16
  No one came along and gave me that I chose it for Branding
• 1:49:20
  purposes. And what not, what do I do?
• 1:49:21
  What's a nice hook? What's a catch for this?
• 1:49:23
  Sure, I could just be been the dream guy.
• 1:49:25
  It's not as fun as saying I'm a wizard but also, I am actively
• 1:49:29
  working to embody the archetype in practice.
• 1:49:33
  So I would say a wizard is what a wizard does.
• 1:49:34
  If you're doing the thing, there's Wizards everywhere.
• 1:49:37
  And I would say if, you know, if a Vicki is, is working towards
• 1:49:41
  those, same goals, by those, same methods, then your wizard
• 1:49:46
  in my eyes and I think it's ubiquitous there's there's more
• 1:49:49
  out there than, you know, if you find them and it can just be
• 1:49:51
  that That that Wise Old Uncle that he done got a lot to say
• 1:49:54
  unless you ask him but man if you ask him he knows what he's
• 1:49:56
  talking about. That's a that's a wizard.
• 1:49:58
  You might want to consult, right?
• 1:50:01
  Yeah. There's definitely I think the
• 1:50:04
  operative word is you know, you're doing thing or those
• 1:50:06
  that's the operative part of it is you're not just putting on a
• 1:50:11
  show. It's not a facade.
• 1:50:13
  This isn't this isn't a game like you take it seriously and
• 1:50:17
  it shows, right? People that take things
• 1:50:18
  seriously and put the time and effort into doing things of
• 1:50:21
  Quality for the right reasons, The Works speak for themselves.
• 1:50:26
  There's no reason for them to have to, you know, try to
• 1:50:29
  justify or make a claim that isn't it is inaccurate, you
• 1:50:33
  know? Yeah, I'm not trying to convince
• 1:50:35
  anyone. If people go and I've had people
• 1:50:38
  say this, all you think you're a wizard, you da mic.
• 1:50:40
  Okay, thanks, it's fair enough. That's your opinion.
• 1:50:44
  Well, yeah, number one, that's just like, just your opinion
• 1:50:47
  man. But also fair enough with the
• 1:50:49
  fucking my I'm just some guy who says he's a Wizard.
• 1:50:52
  Maybe I am. Maybe I'm not.
• 1:50:53
  Maybe that is absolutely ridiculous.
• 1:50:54
  I hold those two concepts in my mind at the same time.
• 1:50:57
  This is absolutely ridiculous. This guy thinks he's a wizard
• 1:51:00
  and I think it's hilarious and yes I'm absolutely serious.
• 1:51:03
  I think if I do it right, that I'm in, I'm embodying the
• 1:51:08
  archetype and there's the archetype of the hero, the
• 1:51:10
  archetype of the fool and all of these different things that we
• 1:51:14
  actually do embody, the Nets are getting back to the north North
• 1:51:19
  stuff. Loki isn't More people need to
• 1:51:22
  understand that about the trickster Gods even if some of
• 1:51:25
  thank you, right? I mean, and here's the guy
• 1:51:28
  folks, that's not even Heathen or Pagan and he's saying it, you
• 1:51:31
  know, like it's isn't Marvel, he's not the bad guy, heat the
• 1:51:34
  villain up, sure he's done some things in the stories that are
• 1:51:37
  downright shitty. But you know, look at the
• 1:51:39
  context of things and see people, people don't have eyes
• 1:51:42
  Thor, went hunting Giants for fun.
• 1:51:44
  He just slaughtered a bunch of them.
• 1:51:45
  We might look at that, like, random Slaughter, really?
• 1:51:48
  Did you have to go that he be hunted for sport because he
• 1:51:50
  thought it was funny or whatever.
• 1:51:51
  Never. So now that's being harsh,
• 1:51:54
  that's one framing of that. He maybe he had his reasons and
• 1:51:57
  and whatnot but you can easily paint any of these guys as doing
• 1:52:01
  the wrong thing based on our moral framework today.
• 1:52:04
  Maybe they had a different vision of why that was necessary
• 1:52:06
  at the time and why it was beneficial and why you should
• 1:52:09
  worship that spiritual energy, that enacted, that kind of
• 1:52:12
  culling of the Giants. Because they needed to be held
• 1:52:15
  back, whatever. But Loki is, he's a trickster
• 1:52:17
  God. He is the essence of
• 1:52:18
  transformation and change. He is the one.
• 1:52:21
  That he is the my trying to say and you probably know better
• 1:52:25
  better words for it than I do. But if we go to the story of
• 1:52:27
  Baldur, he is the he is the wrong gear, instigator the
• 1:52:32
  Catalyst. He is the role of the dice that
• 1:52:35
  says you know, if you're not paying attention, the potential
• 1:52:39
  for a bad outcome will strike you like an arrow that you're
• 1:52:42
  not invulnerable to and it will happen by Mischief.
• 1:52:46
  It will happen by accident who happened by a trick of Fate that
• 1:52:49
  put you in a situation you weren't prepared for and there's
• 1:52:52
  consequences. So there's an Essence to that
• 1:52:55
  energy that has to be accounted for and so you get that with
• 1:52:58
  Hermes in the in re or her major mercury in the Greek religion.
• 1:53:04
  And every religion has a trickster God who coyote and
• 1:53:06
  Raven and tricks to our pan pan is, the kind of a trickster god
• 1:53:10
  of the forest. It representing natural forces
• 1:53:12
  and they are amoral in. A lot of ways, they're not there
• 1:53:16
  to hurt anybody but they're not there to save you either.
• 1:53:18
  They're not the hero. The hero is something else.
• 1:53:20
  It's the the way. I see those types is, are, you
• 1:53:23
  know, like you're saying forces in nature within Society within
• 1:53:28
  a, within a community within a social order within social
• 1:53:31
  constructs, there is order and and outside of those social
• 1:53:35
  constructs there is disorder and it's not for any reason other
• 1:53:39
  than just, that's just the way it's the law of the Jungle baby.
• 1:53:42
  I mean, it is the the, you know, the sea is always right here.
• 1:53:46
  Watch the rings of power on Amazon Prime that the Lord of
• 1:53:49
  the Rings, the rings of power series.
• 1:53:51
  Freeze. I saw the first couple episodes
• 1:53:53
  and I saw it at a friend's house because I don't have Prime, so
• 1:53:56
  go ahead but so there's, you know, you know, the númenóreans,
• 1:53:59
  right? If you're into the Tolkien Lord
• 1:54:01
  that all, but the people that live on the island of númenor,
• 1:54:04
  it's an island civilization, they're surrounded by water and
• 1:54:08
  their people in this, you know, in the series right there, out
• 1:54:11
  on this ship and they're there on the shore.
• 1:54:13
  And one of the things that they say is the sea is always, right?
• 1:54:16
  And if you think about it, the river is always right.
• 1:54:19
  The mountains are always right? The Trees the forest, everything
• 1:54:22
  nature is always right. Because again, it's a moral,
• 1:54:25
  there's no idea that there's no concept of let's keep order.
• 1:54:29
  Let's keep this. It's just a it is what it is and
• 1:54:31
  you're in it, you're going to be a part of it.
• 1:54:33
  So one of my of times we look at it and say we instantly
• 1:54:37
  understand why it is ridiculous. To ask the question, is gravity
• 1:54:43
  moral or a more immoral as it right or wrong?
• 1:54:46
  No, it simply. Is it just exists.
• 1:54:48
  And so a lot of these in my Ian as an atheist.
• 1:54:52
  And mythologist in that way, we have these conceptual
• 1:54:56
  understandings of Primal forces. It basically, the more Primal,
• 1:55:00
  the force, the more powerful to God.
• 1:55:02
  And that's why we have gods of Nature and gods of the again.
• 1:55:06
  Back to Greek mythology, they conceived of humans as the
• 1:55:10
  playthings of the Gods. It's one of the classic phrases
• 1:55:13
  and we see that in Aphrodite goddess of love, sends her son,
• 1:55:17
  arrows, Cupid down to strike. You with an arrow.
• 1:55:19
  And here, we are humans. Did Suddenly by The Passion of
• 1:55:23
  love. That is our physical experience.
• 1:55:25
  As if some external Force has come upon us and moves us
• 1:55:30
  involuntarily. Now, we can choose not to act
• 1:55:32
  upon it. We can say this is a like maybe
• 1:55:34
  Paris should have them. We wouldn't have kicked off the
• 1:55:37
  the Trojan War. Maybe that's a cautionary tale
• 1:55:40
  about not stealing another man's wife.
• 1:55:42
  And then you be find parallels in Christianity, don't covet
• 1:55:44
  your neighbor's wife, you're gonna get another Trojan war,
• 1:55:46
  knock it off, all that kind of stuff, but there's even heat up
• 1:55:50
  in that in some of the north stuff too.
• 1:55:53
  There's morality that moral lessons.
• 1:55:56
  Yeah, well that's why I love the whole idea of the Aesop's,
• 1:55:58
  Fables. They very, very often featured,
• 1:56:00
  the Greek gods because this was a guy that lived six hundred
• 1:56:04
  years prior to the Roman Empire or the, you know, we go BCE
• 1:56:07
  before Christian era and he was, I think around five to six
• 1:56:10
  hundred years and then his stories had survived.
• 1:56:12
  Now, for 2500 years and they're still, and I'm carrying it
• 1:56:15
  forward in the next Edition. I'm working on, you know,
• 1:56:17
  Wizards guide to to Aesop's Fables saying, you know, here
• 1:56:20
  are the Here's the Human Experience of these seemingly
• 1:56:24
  Primal forces, we will involuntarily involuntarily
• 1:56:28
  experience emotions. And so this is where gods have
• 1:56:34
  children as well. This is the idea of it is that
• 1:56:36
  we have the umbrella concept of the almost like you go in the,
• 1:56:40
  you know, the genus species phylum, that kind of thing of
• 1:56:42
  the technical biological taxonomy.
• 1:56:44
  So let's say the, as I said Aphrodite, the Goddess of love
• 1:56:48
  has a child that child is Eros. The one that afflict us with
• 1:56:53
  this romantic feeling that we then involuntarily experience.
• 1:56:56
  But you get like the god of Mars, god of war.
• 1:57:00
  And then, he either had his children or they were his
• 1:57:03
  companions. But they were strife and Discord
• 1:57:05
  and it was Nike, the goddess of Discord who threw the Golden
• 1:57:09
  Apple down, and told Paris to pick the gods and he picked
• 1:57:12
  Aphrodite, because she could reward him with Helen.
• 1:57:14
  Make Helen love him. And then that sparked.
• 1:57:16
  Yes, we get these moral cautionary, moral, tales that
• 1:57:19
  are all built on this understanding of What it, what
• 1:57:22
  is this Human Experience? What are the elements of it?
• 1:57:25
  How does it function with us? And that's where mythology comes
• 1:57:27
  from, it's an explanatory system the world in some ways.
• 1:57:30
  It was the first attempt at science and philosophy.
• 1:57:33
  These mythological systems explanatory systems for the
• 1:57:37
  world and then that's not to denigrate anyone who thinks
• 1:57:39
  these entities are corporeal in some way that they actually
• 1:57:44
  exist. Like there's a physical
• 1:57:46
  Christian God out there and Jesus lived, not my belief
• 1:57:48
  system so I see it a little differently but right but But I
• 1:57:51
  think it has the same value even if you don't believe it actually
• 1:57:55
  happened. So that's where my tremendous
• 1:57:57
  respect comes from. I saw a old interview, I don't
• 1:58:01
  know exactly how old it was, but it was between Neil deGrasse
• 1:58:04
  Tyson and Steve Stephen Hawking. Mmm, and Neil was interviewing
• 1:58:10
  Hawking asking him about and I forget exactly how the question
• 1:58:16
  was phrased, but it was on the topic of religion and Science
• 1:58:20
  and Anyways, Hawking, Hawking responded with that.
• 1:58:25
  You know, religion is the thing that existed to explain things
• 1:58:31
  that they couldn't before science was discovered before
• 1:58:35
  the before the study of science became a thing.
• 1:58:38
  So you would again these these you know, Cosmic forces or
• 1:58:42
  whatnot things that were way bigger than us, you know, our
• 1:58:46
  finite concept are, finite ability to process things that
• 1:58:51
  were just Way bigger than we could you know, comprehend
• 1:58:53
  mentally religion became the thing to explain it, you know.
• 1:59:00
  So why is it thundering outside? Well, we know now from science.
• 1:59:03
  What what Thunder is but you know, different civilizations
• 1:59:07
  have different Thunder Gods because you know well it's Thor,
• 1:59:11
  defeating the Giants and keeping, you know, midgard safe
• 1:59:14
  from from the from the invasion of the giant site.
• 1:59:17
  That was the civilization creating this.
• 1:59:21
  Cole Larger than Life Force. And now, of course we have the
• 1:59:27
  science that explains. It still doesn't take away from
• 1:59:29
  anybody that wants to believe that you know but the science
• 1:59:32
  helps kind of rationalize and explain it.
• 1:59:34
  So for sure I like that you know that that's where religion is
• 1:59:37
  and sometimes people just get to get too invested in the
• 1:59:43
  religiosity of it. Yeah.
• 1:59:45
  And then sell on the scientific side people.
• 1:59:46
  Get too invested in. Well we can't prove that
• 1:59:49
  materially. There is no there.
• 1:59:51
  Is no, you know, dowsing Rod of God detection where we can say.
• 1:59:57
  Oh, I'm like, oh, there's Thor, he's over here, I can, you know,
• 1:59:59
  I'm getting a reading on my ghost of meter or whatever.
• 2:00:02
  We just, you know, we don't we don't have that and I'd say it's
• 2:00:04
  not possible. So there's these are debates I
• 2:00:06
  have with people to where I believe there is.
• 2:00:08
  Okay, this is way off topic but like the core funding, I believe
• 2:00:11
  there is an objective morality to the universe.
• 2:00:15
  Now, what that is is less. Important than the concept.
• 2:00:20
  Because there's a lot of people out there that think morality is
• 2:00:22
  and can only be entirely subjective.
• 2:00:25
  That's where the dichotomy comes from, the disagreement.
• 2:00:27
  I think it is, you know, okay, where was I going with that?
• 2:00:32
  I think there is a reality to Concepts, to ideas, two
• 2:00:37
  categories. So, this is where this is where
• 2:00:40
  I think, if you ask me, you know, are the Greek gods real or
• 2:00:43
  are the Norse gods real? Yes, I think they are in a
• 2:00:47
  meadow there. They have.
• 2:00:48
  At a physical metaphysical reality, not a material reality,
• 2:00:53
  which is what mean some people think they have both, but at the
• 2:00:55
  very least, conceptual categories exist.
• 2:00:59
  They are a thin, there is a wet and dry there's night and day.
• 2:01:03
  These are cold, hot cold. The do you know?
• 2:01:06
  And it's to some degree to give the relativist their do hot and
• 2:01:10
  cold relative to what wrote relative to absolute zero or you
• 2:01:13
  know, the Heat or the the heart of a son.
• 2:01:17
  Sure. We have a very narrow No range
• 2:01:18
  of what we perceive the concepts and their to Darkness.
• 2:01:21
  The absence of light and absolute.
• 2:01:23
  Like the white white is the color of all the the colors of
• 2:01:27
  the rainbow together until you gather, split split them out
• 2:01:30
  with the prism and now you can see each shade on the Spectrum.
• 2:01:34
  So the idea of a rainbow it, I think the most real things are
• 2:01:38
  where the physical world gives us an Exemplar of the
• 2:01:43
  metaphysical category where they where they intersect or overlap.
• 2:01:47
  And so if you have a concept, you can watch operate in
• 2:01:51
  practice in human experience in the physical world.
• 2:01:55
  That is at, that is a god of a very real kind.
• 2:01:59
  And then again, I don't invest belief in it.
• 2:02:02
  Like, we should go back to worshipping the Greek gods and
• 2:02:05
  sacrificing Lambs on an altar to, you know, to Apollo the way.
• 2:02:09
  Did but I think we should recognize the reality of things
• 2:02:13
  that what is it? There's the laws of thought.
• 2:02:15
  A thing is what it is a equals a and then you know a does not
• 2:02:20
  equal because be as something else be as a separate category.
• 2:02:23
  So you draw a circle in the sand and you put a rock in it.
• 2:02:26
  There is a rock in that Circle that conceptual categories
• 2:02:28
  physically instantiated, you take the rock out of the circle.
• 2:02:32
  Now there is no rock in the circle.
• 2:02:35
  There can be no situation where the rock is both in the circle
• 2:02:38
  and not in the circle. At the same time, it is either
• 2:02:40
  in or out. The there is a dichotomy in the
• 2:02:42
  physical sense. So those conceptual categories
• 2:02:45
  have reality that we can instantiate in the world.
• 2:02:48
  And this is the way I look at a lot of the mythological stuff,
• 2:02:51
  any of the Christian stuff of like, was it a bit the biblical
• 2:02:55
  story going back to Jordan Jordan Pederson as well?
• 2:02:56
  He explains like the story of Cain and Abel were my favorite
• 2:03:00
  City tells and it's like be careful of becoming resentful in
• 2:03:04
  the world, you know. Do you becoming resentful
• 2:03:06
  because your sacrifices weren't acceptable to God?
• 2:03:09
  And then that can cause you to act and act harm on other people
• 2:03:12
  as a concept of human behavior. We've seen that a million times.
• 2:03:17
  We've done it ourselves. We become resentful, and
• 2:03:20
  spiteful, and wanted to, I was jealous and wanted to retaliate
• 2:03:23
  against someone that they were just more successful than us.
• 2:03:26
  They were just more talented. They worked a little harder, and
• 2:03:28
  we're just a little, you know, but heard about it, it was.
• 2:03:32
  But if you can understand that story, and that it is
• 2:03:34
  absolutely. True.
• 2:03:37
  Then you can be where it then you can say, oh my God, I'm in
• 2:03:39
  this story. This is me.
• 2:03:40
  I don't want to be that guy, and you can choose to get out of it,
• 2:03:42
  you can change your story, you can literally change your
• 2:03:44
  narrative. You can become the hero instead
• 2:03:46
  of the villain if you changed your behavior.
• 2:03:49
  So yeah, I think then that gets the idea of what is real or just
• 2:03:52
  true. This def definitions and words.
• 2:03:54
  Oh yeah yeah yeah so that's why I have such respect for these
• 2:03:57
  things. I think all these Concepts when
• 2:03:58
  they are true you should understand them and act
• 2:04:02
  accordingly. So with that which we talking
• 2:04:05
  about truth and and and of course you know, finding our own
• 2:04:08
  truth. Do dreams come true.
• 2:04:12
  Hmm. I have a friend.
• 2:04:16
  I know in real life who says he has experienced a prophetic
• 2:04:21
  dream and it was verified a week later, the exact circumstances.
• 2:04:25
  And I'm like, are you sure? It wasn't Deja Vu.
• 2:04:27
  And he said, I know what Deja Vu feels like this was not that
• 2:04:33
  feeling. This was something else.
• 2:04:34
  This was I dreamed it. And now it is happening.
• 2:04:38
  I don't know what to do with that.
• 2:04:39
  I believe him. That's where I go with that.
• 2:04:41
  I say, yes, I think that was a real experience for him.
• 2:04:45
  Is he wrong? Possibly, but he's not lying.
• 2:04:47
  So, if we go with that, I think there is an entire realm of
• 2:04:53
  stuff that is. That is real and true that I
• 2:04:57
  cannot explain and I cannot confirm.
• 2:05:02
  So I think good luck telling the difference there.
• 2:05:05
  But I, but I think it's possible.
• 2:05:07
  Yeah, absolutely. I'll and I land on it with, with
• 2:05:12
  a view of yes. And the reason why is that, you
• 2:05:14
  know, again, what's happening? When we dream right?
• 2:05:18
  We're still are you know this? This subconscious our minds,
• 2:05:22
  never turn off. Things are still happening.
• 2:05:24
  Even when we're not physically aware of it happening, it's
• 2:05:27
  happening subconsciously, but we're retaining that to those
• 2:05:32
  those details to some degree and it's in, it's something that
• 2:05:36
  sticks out. So, you know, it's so profound
• 2:05:38
  or so impactful that I would say that having those visions Kind
• 2:05:45
  of lay the groundwork for the to happen like we manifest it we
• 2:05:49
  manifest it out because of that subconscious experience.
• 2:05:53
  Why did it happen who's to say? You know why we had that
• 2:05:56
  experience? Why we had that dream?
• 2:05:58
  Why we had that Vision? Well the fact is we had it and
• 2:06:01
  now we have a choice and we make that choice a reality you know
• 2:06:07
  we make that dream a reality and some people will say, you know,
• 2:06:11
  well I had this dream and they don't mean it in the sense of
• 2:06:13
  their they fell asleep and they When I woke up the next day and
• 2:06:17
  they had this revelation of of their subconscious thinking of
• 2:06:20
  it out, they'll use the term dream as you know, a vision, you
• 2:06:24
  know, write something that they want to manifest.
• 2:06:27
  Well, I think if it's, if it's that Vivid, yeah, aspirations.
• 2:06:30
  Yeah. There's a reason those two
• 2:06:31
  concepts we use the same word for both Concepts.
• 2:06:34
  Yeah. Because you're, maybe I should
• 2:06:36
  say, yeah, please. Well, if you think about it, the
• 2:06:41
  very technical terms, we can close our eyes and imagine Ian,
• 2:06:46
  the success of a particular kind of project and that is a vision
• 2:06:49
  of its it is an imagination and image a nation.
• 2:06:54
  We image, we Vision it, we construct a concept of what it
• 2:07:00
  looks like that can happen say involuntarily in while we're
• 2:07:04
  asleep and that's there's a strong correlation between
• 2:07:07
  Daydream. There's a one of the books I'm
• 2:07:08
  going to be getting around to is, you know, the psychology of
• 2:07:11
  Daydreams because we have these kind of we almost meditative
• 2:07:15
  Reveries they used to call them. There goes the book is the cat.
• 2:07:18
  She's back. That's what I gotta go.
• 2:07:21
  Read this one, right? Just now, there we go.
• 2:07:23
  The whole I did go to, don't back your ass up to it.
• 2:07:27
  We, you know, in a way if we let ourselves fantasize, having a
• 2:07:32
  waking fantasy Phantasm, going back to the Greeks.
• 2:07:36
  Fantasists was one of the Greek gods of dreams and children of
• 2:07:39
  Morpheus. We are letting ourselves,
• 2:07:42
  imagine what it could be like end of the first step to making.
• 2:07:45
  Making anything a reality is to be able to conceptualize it as a
• 2:07:49
  what if if I do this and we do that what am I trying to say?
• 2:07:54
  We do it. When we I got to go to the
• 2:07:56
  dentist. Whatever back to the teeth
• 2:07:57
  thing. First we imagine The process of
• 2:08:04
  getting to the dentist and a lot of a lot of this stuff is
• 2:08:07
  automatic, but if we broke it down to its steps, I got to put
• 2:08:10
  on pants, I got to get in the car.
• 2:08:11
  I got to drive a specific route. I got to park in the parking
• 2:08:14
  lot. It'd go check in with the gal
• 2:08:15
  and the more specific we can get in our anticipation, the more
• 2:08:19
  accurate our anticipation, the more successful, we're going to
• 2:08:21
  be in pulling it off exact and a lot of the stuff happens
• 2:08:24
  automatically because we don't think about each individual
• 2:08:27
  step. But if you're gonna do something
• 2:08:28
  you've never done before, you got to plan it out and say this
• 2:08:32
  The goal and these are the steps I think, will get me closer.
• 2:08:35
  And sometimes you find along the way that those you're going to
• 2:08:38
  turn off my camera, aren't you? Jesus, I love you.
• 2:08:41
  We love you. Bring the girl knock it off.
• 2:08:45
  You know, especially the things you've never done before.
• 2:08:46
  We need a pretty clear image, imagining of what those steps
• 2:08:52
  are in order to implement them. And a lot of it were inventing
• 2:08:55
  it as we go. And then we, then then the
• 2:08:58
  scientific side of things comes in.
• 2:08:59
  We try to implement it, we find out.
• 2:09:01
  Oh, boy, plans me. Reality.
• 2:09:02
  And it's not exactly. And we adapt as we go.
• 2:09:05
  Yeah. The the more clear you can make
• 2:09:07
  that process, the more realistic that process.
• 2:09:09
  The you can do amazing things, you do things you never done
• 2:09:12
  before. Because you put the thought in
• 2:09:13
  ahead of time to drive the vision, you have the vision, got
• 2:09:16
  the game plan to get you where you're going.
• 2:09:18
  Yeah, sometimes. Yeah.
• 2:09:20
  Sometimes those Visions come without our conscious effort, I
• 2:09:24
  would say they do. That's amazing when that does
• 2:09:28
  happen when you just so clearly visualize a process and you're
• 2:09:31
  like that's it now. The can I do that?
• 2:09:33
  But I want to do that and I know it'll work and then you do when
• 2:09:36
  you're like, where did that come from?
• 2:09:39
  Why did I think that? Why do I want that?
• 2:09:41
  How did I know that? That's magic to me?
• 2:09:43
  Yeah, that's why I look at it might as well be the muses.
• 2:09:47
  It was singing to me, The Music of the Spheres.
• 2:09:50
  You know, that's his conceptually accurate as
• 2:09:53
  anything else. I have no idea where ideas or
• 2:09:54
  inspiration comes from. It's almost something you can't
• 2:09:57
  force to happen. It just something that kind of
• 2:10:00
  feels like, it happens to you. Yeah, it comes from everywhere.
• 2:10:04
  I mean Inspiration can come from anywhere and by any means and
• 2:10:09
  through any, through any through any Forum.
• 2:10:12
  Yeah, you know it's it's it's organic and that's where I think
• 2:10:15
  it comes back to just how much a part of this big picture this
• 2:10:20
  universe that that that we are. It's not just You know, this
• 2:10:25
  isn't an accident we're not just here and I was talking to this
• 2:10:28
  to another guest I had on the show recently, you know, I was
• 2:10:32
  talking to them and I'm like, you and I are talking to each
• 2:10:36
  other today. You know, we met each other at a
• 2:10:38
  certain period of time. First of all, that's so Random
• 2:10:41
  if you think about it. Because, you know, we're we're,
• 2:10:44
  we're like a one in a billion chance of turning the camera
• 2:10:49
  off. Yeah, let me fix that.
• 2:10:52
  Why did the universe want that to happen?
• 2:10:53
  No, that was. That was derange.
• 2:10:56
  I'm fixing it right now. Here, I'm gonna, I'm gonna
• 2:10:58
  filibuster to for a second. This brought me back to the idea
• 2:11:00
  of fate and the Greek concept of the Fates.
• 2:11:02
  Again, that's my kind of my wheelhouse is understanding that
• 2:11:06
  it is. You the, the fates measure the,
• 2:11:08
  the the the length of the thread of your life when you're born to
• 2:11:11
  when you die and but there's also Greek stories of
• 2:11:14
  negotiating with the fates, you can actually petition them to
• 2:11:19
  change the course of your life. You have that.
• 2:11:22
  So there's this wonderful blend Being of some things are fated
• 2:11:26
  some, some consequences or happenings or different stuff
• 2:11:30
  was unavoidable and the other stuff you got wiggle room, you
• 2:11:33
  can negotiate with fate, you can change your fate.
• 2:11:36
  There's very, very famous stories of like you know, that
• 2:11:39
  someone changing Fates mind about cutting their thread.
• 2:11:41
  At apogee particular time that is actually something we can do
• 2:11:44
  with the physical world. If you are headed for a cliff
• 2:11:48
  and you choose to turn the wheel, you will not go over the
• 2:11:50
  cliff that is, you know, it's almost like causing a The can't
• 2:11:54
  you are doomed to go over the cliff unless you turn the wheel
• 2:11:58
  and the good news is you can. And what are you going to do?
• 2:12:02
  Choice is up to you now that's free will but the but the the
• 2:12:05
  idea of some consequences being inevitable, that's kind of what
• 2:12:10
  we're talking about. What would I?
• 2:12:11
  How I would conceptualize the idea of the Fates.
• 2:12:14
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 2:12:16
  And there's again those are there you go.
• 2:12:18
  You're going to die. You were born.
• 2:12:19
  You're going to die. But I was like, I was talking to
• 2:12:21
  this guy and I was on I was really just Breaking it down
• 2:12:24
  like we're a one-in-a-billion, were the result of a one in a
• 2:12:28
  billion chance, you know, all of the or millions of sperm that
• 2:12:32
  that one reached the egg that became you, you know what I
• 2:12:36
  mean? Like and, and, and then Out of
• 2:12:41
  all the years that you've been alive and existing you know you
• 2:12:44
  landed on an opportunity to talk with me and not anybody else or
• 2:12:49
  you. Obviously there are others but
• 2:12:51
  again it's just when you think about how things happen it's
• 2:12:54
  like this a random man. Like there's there's there's a
• 2:12:57
  bigger thing going on here. And when you when you really
• 2:12:59
  wrap your your mind or about around that and get a part of
• 2:13:03
  it, become a part of it, that's like I say, we're, you know,
• 2:13:06
  you're talking about where the magic happens.
• 2:13:07
  It's in where the magic exists. Yeah.
• 2:13:10
  We might almost say we were fated to cross paths.
• 2:13:14
  Now, the result of that path Crossing is up to us.
• 2:13:17
  I could have crossed paths with you and decided not to accept
• 2:13:20
  your invitation. You could have heard of me and
• 2:13:22
  and decided not to reach out, but that we were going to meet
• 2:13:25
  at that place in that time through so much random chance
• 2:13:29
  that we couldn't plan for it. We can't even understand the The
• 2:13:33
  Dominoes that led up to that. And then so we were fated to
• 2:13:37
  have a meeting of some kind and this is what we chose to make of
• 2:13:40
  it. That's kind of how I do know.
• 2:13:42
  We're was it a Gandalf said, you know, you're not, you don't get
• 2:13:46
  to choose the times in which you live.
• 2:13:48
  You just have to decide what to do with the time you have.
• 2:13:52
  Oh yeah. Yeah, love it.
• 2:13:53
  Yeah. He's all because I didn't want
• 2:13:57
  this to happen. I never wanted this to happen.
• 2:14:00
  I never meant for this to happen.
• 2:14:02
  This is not the way I wanted things to go.
• 2:14:04
  Yeah, well so do all that. So do all who go through these
• 2:14:07
  things, right? So do all who live to see such
• 2:14:09
  times and that's not for us. Decide what we decide to do is,
• 2:14:13
  is what we do with the time. That is given to us.
• 2:14:14
  That's what our decisions are. That's where we have the power
• 2:14:17
  talk. It was we are here, okay.
• 2:14:19
  Yeah, dude. Talking about Wizards, man.
• 2:14:22
  We talked about the Power of Words.
• 2:14:24
  And, I mean, I've, I'm not the only one that's, that's notice
• 2:14:28
  this, or is it? That's even said this.
• 2:14:30
  So I'm not, you know, taking any credit for it, but the word to
• 2:14:34
  spell, spell Ling, you know, you casting spells like, what
• 2:14:38
  Wizards do, what, you know, which is magicians, right?
• 2:14:40
  Yes, I figure out of them. Casting spells The Power of
• 2:14:44
  Words, man. You know, formulating letters
• 2:14:47
  into sentences that become paragraphs at become
• 2:14:51
  dissertations. That become podcasts.
• 2:14:53
  This is Magic, you know. Yeah, absolutely agree.
• 2:14:56
  And there's of the idea. We we say we are under a spell
• 2:15:00
  and there's a fantastic quote from one of my favorite stage
• 2:15:03
  plays, I total geek like musicals into the woods.
• 2:15:06
  They made a movie of a recently with some good, it was good
• 2:15:10
  version. Movie.
• 2:15:11
  But I love the original stage play from back in the 90s.
• 2:15:14
  I Bernadette Peters and a bunch of other people.
• 2:15:16
  He'd recognize from the if you're old like me, one of the
• 2:15:20
  lines from this is Rodgers and Hammerstein.
• 2:15:22
  And they've been around for years, really good like
• 2:15:24
  Shakespeare, really good at at capturing the essence of Human
• 2:15:27
  Experience. One of the lines from the songs,
• 2:15:29
  is careful detailed. You tell that is the spell.
• 2:15:33
  And we think about how we frame and make a narrative of certain
• 2:15:37
  things, and especially when it comes to in this was in the
• 2:15:39
  context of children. What you explain to them about
• 2:15:42
  how the world works, is what they grow up.
• 2:15:45
  Believing about how the world works.
• 2:15:47
  So you have to tell children, something this is what's right
• 2:15:51
  and wrong. This is what's this is how the
• 2:15:53
  world works, but you want to make sure you're casting the
• 2:15:55
  right spell. You're leaving the right
• 2:15:57
  impression and giving the best possible tools and that is the
• 2:16:02
  terror and Trauma of being a parent, which I'm not in.
• 2:16:05
  I don't think I could handle it too much anxiety, but you are
• 2:16:08
  responsible for is best you. Can giving an entirely new
• 2:16:13
  human, a way to understand themselves and what's happening
• 2:16:17
  around them. And thus, all these Traditions
• 2:16:19
  are handed down like the north stuff.
• 2:16:21
  And every other is here are the explanatory systems of our
• 2:16:26
  ancestors. Because it's necessary to have
• 2:16:31
  these understandings to, to you got to have some way of
• 2:16:34
  understanding the world is on at this one, or didn't people
• 2:16:38
  change as they go along? They develop their own
• 2:16:39
  understand challenge ideas and traditions and whatnot.
• 2:16:42
  But yeah, start somewhere, you know, with the kind of
• 2:16:44
  explanatory system and last thing I want to say because
• 2:16:48
  we've been going on with this for a while and a half hours is
• 2:16:52
  my limit. That's yeah.
• 2:16:53
  But I this is probably one of the longest episodes on my
• 2:16:56
  channel because I No, it just seems to work like we keep it
• 2:16:59
  like an hour and a half. I've done a couple hour-long
• 2:17:02
  deals but I do want to, you know, just in consideration of
• 2:17:04
  time and the listeners and the viewers wrap it up soon but I do
• 2:17:08
  want to yeah bring up one one last thing to you and this goes
• 2:17:12
  back to, you know, dreams of course.
• 2:17:16
  So do you have any concept or have you come landed on a, an
• 2:17:23
  answer when it comes to being visited?
• 2:17:27
  Dreams by the deceased people by loved ones.
• 2:17:31
  Yeah. And and what the representation
• 2:17:35
  of that is because again, you know, they came to me in a dream
• 2:17:37
  they said this thing that of the other and what that all means.
• 2:17:42
  Yeah I've got it. This is another one of those
• 2:17:44
  things I guess and know that's that's my final answer me.
• 2:17:48
  That is another category of typical dream.
• 2:17:50
  Visitation of a deceased loved one or even acquaintances or an
• 2:17:53
  old friend loved a deceased loved one.
• 2:17:58
  Spooky boo side, I am entirely open to the possibility that
• 2:18:01
  yes, whatever energy formed the the soul of them.
• 2:18:06
  In this material world embodied in that form that you knew,
• 2:18:10
  maybe still exists out there somewhere and has the ability to
• 2:18:13
  come back and talk to us. I can't tell the difference.
• 2:18:16
  So what I can say on my side is, well, at the very least you had
• 2:18:21
  an image of that person because they mean something to you in
• 2:18:25
  this context and I actually had a very This is fascinating to,
• 2:18:29
  I'm still have so much to learn and I'm excited about learning.
• 2:18:32
  This is why I like I could do this for the rest of my life.
• 2:18:34
  That's never going to run out of new things.
• 2:18:36
  I can tell him, you're passionate, I love me.
• 2:18:38
  Thank you very much. And I love talking about one of
• 2:18:41
  the most recent interview, he's a dreamer, who came on the show,
• 2:18:44
  he is a descendant. You know Aboriginal Australian
• 2:18:49
  and he was visited in a Dream by his at least I think at the time
• 2:18:54
  deceased grandmother and possibly deceased mother Ike.
• 2:18:57
  I have to refresh my memory, I think, if I recall correctly,
• 2:19:00
  they were both dead and came to in a dream.
• 2:19:01
  Now, at the very least, whether it was really actually them, he
• 2:19:07
  needed to think about them or was inspired to think about
• 2:19:11
  them, coming to him and watching over him in a way and checking
• 2:19:17
  in on him and having a spirit of playfulness about it of like
• 2:19:22
  she's giggling. He's gonna see us.
• 2:19:24
  He knows we're here. For whatever reason.
• 2:19:28
  Those and, of course, those were important maternal.
• 2:19:33
  Archetypal feminine role models in his life, and I think anytime
• 2:19:37
  those things come to us, we should pay attention.
• 2:19:39
  So if you're having specific dreams, some I had another dream
• 2:19:43
  guy is dead. Father came back and he was with
• 2:19:45
  his brother, and it was a couched in the terms of a band
• 2:19:48
  of brothers fighting zombies, Dad's here, and I'm here and
• 2:19:52
  Burrows here, and we're all together where the Esprit de
• 2:19:54
  corps. I called that episode and that
• 2:19:56
  one It could be nothing more than, you know, I miss my dad.
• 2:19:59
  I miss the good times we had. I wish he was still with us and
• 2:20:03
  if he was, we would have a grand adventure and I think, you know,
• 2:20:07
  it looking back on that there's so much more I could have said
• 2:20:09
  because, you know, inexperienced at the Times Etc.
• 2:20:12
  But maybe the he needed to think of his dad and how much of his
• 2:20:16
  dad and was wrapped up in his mind of this kind of spirit of
• 2:20:21
  Adventure and that may be the reason for that I can ography or
• 2:20:26
  sacred imagery is If you want to honor the memory of your dad,
• 2:20:30
  make sure your life is an adventure live.
• 2:20:32
  It live it in a way that he would find it fun to come along
• 2:20:36
  with you and do that. So that can be the lesson of
• 2:20:41
  delivered by the spirit of our deceased.
• 2:20:43
  Loved ones is here's important things that I represented that,
• 2:20:47
  I believed that I did while I was alive and your, you value
• 2:20:52
  them. So make sure to carry that value
• 2:20:53
  forward in your actions, in your understanding of the world.
• 2:20:57
  So yeah. Are they give right?
• 2:20:59
  Yes or no? Are they do?
• 2:21:00
  They really can do is, I don't know.
• 2:21:01
  Are they valuable? I extremely very, very much.
• 2:21:04
  So, yeah, I do find that interesting how you say, you
• 2:21:08
  know, the spirit of their of our ancestors or the spirit of those
• 2:21:12
  people, how they manifest in our subconscious, the purpose behind
• 2:21:17
  it, right to to, to continue their legacy, to be the thing
• 2:21:21
  that they were and to continue that and to honor that in their
• 2:21:26
  memory and Something that speaks very close to my heart and to a
• 2:21:29
  lot of people's hearts who are pagans like me as well that
• 2:21:33
  follow a similar path because we hold a very, very close
• 2:21:36
  adoration and importance on the veneration of our ancestors.
• 2:21:42
  And that's part of what we do is we live in ways, that would be
• 2:21:46
  honoring them because we want them to see us.
• 2:21:48
  They do see us, like, that's what we believe.
• 2:21:50
  We believe that they are, they are physically gone, but they
• 2:21:52
  are not gone gone, right? And so having those lie.
• 2:21:56
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 2:21:57
  Yeah, I mean you know again it's R-Truth, right?
• 2:21:59
  So so the things that we experience and so when we have
• 2:22:03
  you know like you mentioned early on in the episode you know
• 2:22:07
  we are so as creatures we are so Our vision and our touch, right?
• 2:22:12
  Those are the big ones that we if we can see it and if we can
• 2:22:15
  feel it, then it's real. And when our loved ones pass and
• 2:22:19
  their physical representations are no longer here.
• 2:22:21
  We just as part of the human experience, we feel like we've
• 2:22:25
  lost them that they're no longer around because we can't feel and
• 2:22:27
  we can't see them. And so when they come to though
• 2:22:29
  when we have those experiences in our, in our sleep, in our
• 2:22:32
  dreams that we see them, it's like it's super validating, you
• 2:22:36
  know, we're it's like how they were they came to me again, you
• 2:22:39
  know, they're really not gone after all.
• 2:22:41
  And I think it can be a really powerful thing for us to
• 2:22:44
  manifest other things, in our lives and do the things that we
• 2:22:47
  are destined to do insert ourselves into our role in the
• 2:22:50
  universe that we should be doing anyway and having that, that
• 2:22:54
  that, that element of the universe come to us and express
• 2:22:58
  itself in that, in that form can be the real thing that that
• 2:23:02
  lights the fire to get things going to need to get go.
• 2:23:06
  Yeah, it is not a, it's not, it's not for nothing, it's not a
• 2:23:10
  worthless. This experience to have.
• 2:23:12
  And you know the spirit of our ancestors is I think a very real
• 2:23:16
  thing the spirit of. So there's the spirit of
• 2:23:18
  generosity and we've in modern times kind of encapsulated that,
• 2:23:21
  as Santa Claus as we have a modern cultural ritual of being
• 2:23:25
  given to keep the spirit of giving alive of generosity.
• 2:23:29
  And it's a valid concern concept.
• 2:23:31
  It is the world of the world of Ideal forms all Aristotle.
• 2:23:35
  There is an essence of givingness out there and we can
• 2:23:38
  embody it in ritual and that's what we do.
• 2:23:40
  And I think those Nothing to the tremendous it and a lot of it
• 2:23:42
  is, what is what is the ritual mean?
• 2:23:44
  What is meant to preserve and carry on?
• 2:23:45
  And so not all for talking Satanic ritual cult sacrifice,
• 2:23:50
  maybe not a good ritual that I agree with maybe not a good
• 2:23:52
  message that I agree with. So I'm not going to endorse that
• 2:23:54
  but they're doing the same kind of thing of their tradition in
• 2:23:57
  their own way. So you can you can parse out
• 2:24:00
  some traditions may be better than others.
• 2:24:03
  But even say let's say you're just as an example, your father
• 2:24:06
  was an alcoholic and he comes to you in a dream.
• 2:24:08
  And that vision is Is meant as a warning.
• 2:24:12
  Don't become like me. Don't follow this path because
• 2:24:16
  you'll suffer the same consequences.
• 2:24:17
  I do remember these consequences, never forget it.
• 2:24:21
  So the veneration of our answer, it goes with the biblical
• 2:24:25
  admonition, to honor, your father and mother honor.
• 2:24:28
  The institution of fatherhood and motherhood as Concepts, but
• 2:24:32
  also that your parents. Most likely were good people
• 2:24:35
  doing the best. They could have made a whole lot
• 2:24:36
  of mistakes. So they're not evil necessary.
• 2:24:38
  Now, some people from. Yeah, fuck up, fuck up.
• 2:24:40
  Bad and you're like, I don't like them.
• 2:24:43
  I can't even say I love them but, you know, I can remember
• 2:24:46
  the times they tried and they gave me life and there's a,
• 2:24:48
  there's an honoring to be done there.
• 2:24:50
  Then you don't have to enable them if they're still alive.
• 2:24:52
  Like I know a guy who's up another podcaster and very
• 2:24:55
  recently, he discovered oh my God, my mom is a legit sociopath
• 2:24:58
  and she manipulated me and abuse me my whole life and played
• 2:25:01
  mental games. He cut her off and she's
• 2:25:03
  freaking out, maybe still like she can't control him anymore,
• 2:25:06
  he got away. So she looked pretty looms large
• 2:25:08
  and why I think he said, says much looms large.
• 2:25:10
  And some of his dreams of, like, fear of being under that control
• 2:25:15
  again, or or a word of warning, do not remember what it is.
• 2:25:19
  You hated about what she did, you and do not do that to anyone
• 2:25:21
  else that's kind of a lot of the lessons he drew from it.
• 2:25:24
  So yeah, it's a big fascinating to do a whole episode on each of
• 2:25:29
  these topics. Absolutely, man, you know, and I
• 2:25:32
  appreciate being able to Go off into different like go down
• 2:25:37
  rabbit holes because we have, like, we've covered so many
• 2:25:40
  different things. I think we've kept it
• 2:25:42
  centralized to, you know, the dream scope at least I like to
• 2:25:47
  think so, but we did. We touched on so many different
• 2:25:48
  things and I really think that the people hopefully, you're
• 2:25:52
  going to find some value to it. And I want to as we as we wrap
• 2:25:56
  things up, I just want to give you the opportunity, all your
• 2:25:59
  socials and everything your site your books.
• 2:26:03
  I mean all that's going to be linked in the show notes in
• 2:26:04
  description. So Are people listening and
• 2:26:06
  watching? If you could just briefly or as
• 2:26:10
  in great detail, as you want just shows or they'll tell
• 2:26:13
  everybody where they can find you and how they can support
• 2:26:15
  you. Yes, the primary thing is watch
• 2:26:19
  the, you know, recorded but basically one take we're doing
• 2:26:23
  it live dream interpretation show called Dreamscapes and it's
• 2:26:26
  just, you know, YouTube / Benjamin, the dream wizard.
• 2:26:29
  I'm also at Benjamin the dream was or.com, that's who you can
• 2:26:32
  find downloadable podcast episodes.
• 2:26:35
  Download the MP3, taking the Jake, the gym with you.
• 2:26:37
  Save it on the phone, do whatever you do.
• 2:26:38
  Need an internet connection, you got a long drive in the
• 2:26:40
  mountains, take me with you. You can I don't have full copies
• 2:26:44
  of my audio books. They're like I've been doing
• 2:26:46
  audio book versions of these on the that's what I'm my editorial
• 2:26:50
  process has become. I record the audio book as the
• 2:26:54
  final editorial pass for quality assurance to make sure that
• 2:26:58
  commas in the right place the page breaks where it's supposed
• 2:27:01
  to. The quote, I call the quotation
• 2:27:04
  marks are where they're supposed to be That's what I'm doing for
• 2:27:06
  book. 17 forthcoming. I'm I'm on chapter.
• 2:27:09
  Just finished chapter 11 out of 13, and then I'll get that book
• 2:27:12
  published. Finally, a complete list of all
• 2:27:15
  the historical dream literature all currently.
• 2:27:18
  Available 16 books at the books page Benjamin, the dream was
• 2:27:22
  are.com, I guess / books or whatever.
• 2:27:24
  But if you go to the main page that's also the contact for
• 2:27:27
  there's a contact page. So I mean email that way and a
• 2:27:31
  list of all my socials out there, I mean I'm on Twitter.
• 2:27:35
  Ines Facebook. Literally.
• 2:27:38
  I think I to doesn't social media.
• 2:27:39
  I'm everywhere raccoons. It's not me, that's the best
• 2:27:43
  way. And then like if you want to
• 2:27:44
  support my work, always always take his random donations.
• 2:27:47
  Definitely buy a book. I want to give you something of
• 2:27:48
  tangible value that is entertainment and you can hold
• 2:27:52
  it in your hands and say, hey that I'm helping to support the
• 2:27:55
  guy that made this thing that's actually pretty neat.
• 2:27:58
  We can always go through and just become like a recurring
• 2:28:00
  supporter. You can go to Benjamin the dream
• 2:28:02
  wizard dot locals.com, got locals Community there.
• 2:28:05
  They give the, I believe highest percentage of if you kick me,
• 2:28:08
  five bucks a month, they take very little of it.
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  I get almost the whole five bucks, so that's the way to go.
• 2:28:13
  It's better than patreon. I think in a lot of these other
• 2:28:15
  sources that take a lot more money from you.
• 2:28:16
  So yeah, I'll take a dollar a month.
• 2:28:18
  I'll take a one time donation. 10 bucks.
• 2:28:20
  Just because you're like hey, this guy's pretty neat.
• 2:28:22
  You know, if you want me to keep doing what I'm doing, I do need
• 2:28:24
  that support. Got a shell.
• 2:28:25
  That is shielding elderly. Yeah, that's it.
• 2:28:28
  That's my story. Well, Benjamin been the dream
• 2:28:32
  wizard Davidson here on the first time for Oh, the random
• 2:28:35
  human ramblings podcast, but definitely be sure if dream
• 2:28:39
  interpretations, and things along that nature are of
• 2:28:42
  interest to you. Check the description and show
• 2:28:45
  notes. Definitely support this guy,
• 2:28:46
  subscribe to our Channel follow and do all those things, you
• 2:28:49
  know, as I like to say, at the end of every episode appeal, to
• 2:28:53
  the fickle algorithm Gods, you know, do the things that they so
• 2:28:58
  the gods generously, as you know, But yes, definitely do the
• 2:29:06
  things and then just hang around in the real.
• 2:29:09
  Quick is when I when we sign everybody off, I'm going to just
• 2:29:12
  say a few words to You offline and it's been great.
• 2:29:14
  Thank you for being my guest. On this episode of the random
• 2:29:17
  human ramblings podcast, it's been wonderful.
• 2:29:20
  So thank you so much. Thank you for having me and for
• 2:29:22
  everybody else out here listening and watching don't
• 2:29:25
  forget to like, comment, share and subscribe to this video.
• 2:29:28
  Follow the podcast on whatever platform you're absorbing this
• 2:29:31
  on, check the link to relink. That's always annotated for all.
• 2:29:34
  All the ways that You can support what I do here.
• 2:29:37
  So until we see each other. Again, May the gods continue to
• 2:29:40
  notice you and may your ancestors smile upon you.