Latest / Skin Anarchy / Oliver Zak & Selom Agbitor, co-founders of Mad Rabbit- Skincare for Tatoos

Transcript

Oliver Zak & Selom Agbitor, co-founders of Mad Rabbit- Skincare for Tatoos · Skin Anarchy

• 0:00
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• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: I have such a cool uh set of guests today and such a cool brand to talk about.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's for all of you out there that either have a tattoo or you know someone who does.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: And um just, you know, in in general, I think it's for everybody.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: But um, you know, without further ado, I want to introduce you guys to the co-founders of Mad Rabbit Skincare, um, Oliver Zach and uh Salom Agbator.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Chris.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks for having us.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for having us on.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry, Salome, if I messed up your last name.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so sorry about that.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I'm glad you're here.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: I'm glad you're here.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: I'm really curious about your line.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: I'm really curious about like what led you guys to this point because I've never seen anything like it.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's absolutely brilliant because almost everyone I know has a tattoo, literally.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like I was thinking about it when you first reached out to me, and I'm like, oh my gosh, like you don't even think about you know how many people in your lives have tattoos and they deal with like, you know, the peeling and all those things that come with it.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm super excited and I want to get started.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe, Oliver, you can start us off with like how you guys met and like how all of this started, the journey.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, totally.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_03: Acto, first of all, uh what percentage of the United States would you guess is tattooed?
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, I'm gonna go with 75% because that's always a safe answer, I feel like.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_03: I wish it it's it's 42%.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_03: And in like millennial and generations, it's it's above 50.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and it's growing a ton every year.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_03: But it's really interesting to see everyone's different perspectives, and it totally depends on like what you see in your daily life.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_03: But 75, I wish it was that.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because I grew up in the Midwest, though, Oliver.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: That's why.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: Because I grew up in the Midwest, I lived in Florida, and I feel like I've always lived in places that people have tattoos, it's just normal.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: So that's crazy.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: That's very interesting.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_03: You just surround yourself with cool people.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_03: That's that's yeah, you know, that's my goal in life.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: But no, I I I that's very interesting.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: That's a very interesting fact.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_03: Cool.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so yeah, I can kick off the the story.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, please.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_03: Um, my journey really began with entrepreneurship at its core.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_03: I I grew up watching my father as an entrepreneur.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_03: Um immersed myself in high school pitch competitions all the time, um, things like that.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_03: So when I was heading off to college, I I kind of knew that that was the long-term goal I had in mind.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I didn't have any tattoos until really my my junior year of college.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_03: So that wasn't really a part of my trajectory at the beginning, but um was always very business-minded growing up.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_03: Salam, how about you?
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_02: Uh yeah, my entrepreneurship journey honestly didn't start until college.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I always thought that I would have a full-time job working somewhere in finance, but then met people in college and saw that a lot of my friends had their own mini side hustles in college.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_02: So selling t-shirts, selling swimsuits, selling jewelry.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_02: And it always intrigued me, but I wasn't really sure how to take advantage of that and start doing that because I always thought that you had to have a lot of money to start a business.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_02: But honestly, you just need to have Photoshop skills, not a research on uh Google and YouTube, watch videos, learn quickly.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_02: And that's when I started, I guess, to get into entrepreneurship was seeing that okay, the bear to entry is really low.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_02: There's it's not a high startup cost.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, all right, I need to find someone to help me or be my co-founder when I started these businesses.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then met Oliver in my second semester freshman year in college, and then we launched our first business together.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I think it was second semester junior year.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I love that you said that though, Salome, because I I agree with you completely in that mindset of, you know, when you're in college or even starting off, you know, thinking about business, you do assume that it's going to cost so much money, and it really hinders so many people from taking that first step.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: So I love that you said that because I completely agree with you.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, for me, I thought that way too, right out of um, you know, college.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: And that's I that's when I went to graduate school, because I thought you had to go get certain things to even run a business.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm glad that you opened with that, but that's very interesting.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: So then you guys are.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_02: I think yeah, we met.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_02: And also to add on, I think one of the mistakes most people do too when they first launch their first business is like they want shortcuts to make money quickly.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_02: And then once you start exploring about e-commerce, you see people selling courses.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, if you pay this much, I'm gonna guarantee that you're gonna be able to make this many sales this week.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_02: And usually all those courses are just recycled content that you can find for free on the internet.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_02: So some people end up just losing money or just stop after spending all their money on a course online.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I agree.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: I agree.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's like just it's just a money suck.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, uh, you know, I just to add a little bit, like when I got my MBA, I thought it at that time it was still kind of like, okay, you get an MBA, you're supposed to be learning something.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: But I look back now, I'm like, I haven't learned Jack in my educational MBA.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not lying.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I learned it all through exactly what Salam, everything you said.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: Look on Google, do your own research, do what the hell you gotta do, and that's how you're gonna learn.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: So I, you know, I agree with you.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: But um, Oliver, I want to go back to you because I want to talk about this brand.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: This is so cool that you guys um went straight from this.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: Was this your original idea, or did you kind of like come to this eventually?
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_03: So Salam and I ran um a pretty successful online-only skin uh swimwear business uh to start.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_03: That was us kind of getting our feet wet in the digital e-commerce space, um, sold that for an extremely modest amount of money that you know would make any college kid happy.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but it gave us kind of the validation that you know we we really know how to market digitally and um gave us kind of the confidence to take on a uh a business we were much more passionate about later on, which turned out to be Mad Rabbit.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_03: So I guess the roots of Mad Rabbit really go back to my second semester senior year of college.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_03: Um I had my third tattoo appointment booked, um, and I was just thinking about dreading the healing process.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_03: Uh the kind of age-old recommendation for healing a new tattoo is to put some sort of uh petroleum jelly on it, so you know, Vaseline or aquifore, if you will.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_03: Um it turns out it's it's actually terrible for tattoo healing.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's way too thick, it doesn't allow oxygen to get to the skin, uh, which contributes to a worse scabbing process, which is where you lose a lot of the the ink that the artist just spent hours you know driving into your skin.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_03: So it's a really kind of frustrating process.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: I had no idea that was bad for your tattoos.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't know that.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: How did you find that out?
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like what did you look on Plum Matter?
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: Did have people done studies on this?
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: What?
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_03: Um well both.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_03: So in tattoo culture, a scabbing, the scabbing process is you know pretty notorious and well known for being a very unfortunate experience of getting a tattoo.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_03: It you know, it's itchy, it's inflamed.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I was like, there's gotta be a better way than putting chemicals on my skin.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_03: So that's where I kind of started looking into all natural remedies.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_03: Um, fortunately, my mom has years of apothecary experience working with all natural ingredients.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_03: So um when we ultimately decided to create our first uh product, which isn't for healing, it's you know a long-term moisturizer.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_03: Um, it makes your tattoos pop right away, which is really exciting for our customer.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but it's great for long-term moisturization.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_03: Um, yeah, she was able to help us formulate with seven all-natural ingredients and come up with our first product, which is the tattoo balm.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: I love that she has an apothecary background.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: That's very interesting.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, what were some of the things like so you obviously like had some sort of like beginning point, you know?
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: That's very interesting.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: So, what else like you know really led to like making this a you know very applicable model and making it accessible for consumers?
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_03: It was super important for us to to validate um product market fit, right?
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_03: Is is someone gonna buy this balm that we're cooking in my apartment kitchen?
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_03: Was a very important question for us to answer before um you know taking on bigger aspirations, right?
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_03: Like Salam said, we we only had actually he didn't say it, but we we started this company with$600 and we didn't have you know the funds to just jump right into a business and and hope that it would work.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_03: Um so so we just kind of took it slow.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_03: Salam, I'll let you kind of speak to the the beginning, early stages, and how we were selling real quick.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, please.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so when we first launched it, um I think what we did was we started actually selling the product without having the physical product because we wanted to make sure that there was a product market fit.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_02: We wanted to make sure people would actually come to buy it.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_02: So pretty quickly within the first couple of days, orders were just coming in.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_02: So we said, okay, let's actually make the product, figure out how to make it.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_02: So we canceled all those orders.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_02: We skipped a lot of classes um just to be able to like cook this in his apartment.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_02: I think there was like one day a week with the class that we just skip.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_02: We had his friends come help us um cook, cook, and also mail these products to uh to customers.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_02: And then pretty fast the local college uh USBS office just was not a fan of us, and they started telling us to drive an hour down the street to deliver it to the other USBS because it was much, much bigger.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like, no, I was like, no, you guys of your orders.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_02: They're they were not happy about it.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, no, this is your job.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just gonna leave it here and you're gonna have to handle it.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um but that was how we started.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so um, I had usually whenever we launch a company, I have Oliver come up with the name because I don't trust myself, I'm not really good at picking names.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: And he came up with the name.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: How did you come up with Mad Rabbit?
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's not the best story.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_03: I want to hear it nonetheless.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's such a cool name.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_03: I started with with what I felt was important for the brand and the brand direction.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_03: So I wanted it to evoke all natural, I wanted it to evoke American made.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so I picked a um a creature from American folklore, which is the the jackalope, um, as the mascot.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_03: So it's it's not actually a deer, which some people might think it is on first sight, but it's a it's a rabbit with antlers.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I really wanted that to kind of, like I said, evoke like natural ingredients, um, made in America, that kind of vibe and that kind of aesthetic.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_03: We could have gone to something like you know, very 20, 2018 and called it like, I don't know, tattooify or like ink boot, you know, like something sleek and technical.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like a bong on it on the cover, like exactly exactly.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_03: But no, it was more important to like pick a name that really sticks.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_03: And I actually love the question of why did you name it that because that was kind of the point in a way.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: That's very interesting.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: I like that a lot.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you don't see, I mean, I think people always have a reason for naming their businesses the way they do, but like it's just I don't know, it just gets cheesy sometimes.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's like somebody will name it after like, like, there's no like meaning, you know, like it just so that's very interesting to me, that aspect of the brand.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: I'm glad you went with a really cool name.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I'm very curious about the formulation.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not gonna lie, because um, you know, I have tried the products, I don't have any tattoos myself, but my team definitely does, and they've been loving them.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: And so I really want to talk about um how you approach that, you know, in a chemistry perspective.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like, did you just go to a lab and say this is what we want, or what were the what were the you know, things that had you had to narrow down as things to focus on scientifically?
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, our our product development thesis is is fairly simple and and we actually benefit a ton for it, and so does our customer.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_03: It's um as natural as possible and as simple as possible.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_03: And then the third part, which is probably the most important part, is is specifically formulated for tattoos.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_03: Um, the reason I bring that up as the most important part is the reason why you wouldn't want to use you know an off-the-shelf lotion from CVS, for example, to moisturize your tattoos, is it can be full of ingredients that are great for the general consumer, who, in the eyes of you know, Proctor and Gamble and other CPG companies, is a non-tattooed individual.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and it can include great ingredients like vitamin E.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_03: Um, what those companies weren't taking into account is vitamin E identifies ink in the skin as an impurity and actively breaks it down over time.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_03: So specifically formulated for tattoos is a very important component of that product development thesis.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_03: Um the balm, for example, is seven all natural ingredients, right?
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_03: So it's it's nothing complicated, it's nothing you know necessarily um IP uh protectable, um but it's just good stuff and it it won't break down your tattoo over time.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: So the overall, so it's not occlusive then, right?
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: Because you had mentioned how like Vaseline and these like really thick ointments are not good for your, you know, the overall scarring, right?
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: So it's something that is obviously light enough, right?
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: So what was the what was the base of it?
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: What was the base of your balm?
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_03: So so the balm is actually not for the tattoo healing face.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_03: That was our second product that we released that really um really uh uh took care of that pain point that initially drew me to the market, which was healing.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_03: So that is our soothing gel product, which is an aloe vera base as opposed to petroleum jelly.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_03: It's a lot lighter and and more breathable.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_03: Um and that's actually my favorite product because I I love using it on sunburns and stuff.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: That's so smart too, because it's like the biggest like anti-inflammatory I can think of.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: Because when I think of tattoos, the you know, the the science geek in me is just thinking about inflammation.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: That's just a lot of exactly.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's all about treating the inflammation, exactly, and that's really brilliant that you used aloe vera as a base.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Salam, I would love for you to comment on this.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I honestly during the summer became a fan of the Shooting Zhao 2.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um I my tattoo like journey kind of like snowballed.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um when we first launched Mad Rabbit.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_02: I think we got our I got my first tattoo three months after we launched it, just so I didn't look like a poser.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, why are you selling tattoos?
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_02: I have to kill with that any tattoos.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um then like a year later.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I love that.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: Please continue.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_02: And then and then a year later, got my second tattoo.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_02: And then in the past like four months, I added about 10 more tattoos.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_02: So I think I'm up to 14 now.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_02: And during that like process of just like snowballing my body with ink, I started using the soothing gel, and it kind of just like felt really good on my skin.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_02: So, like sometimes I just use it daily when I want my tattoos to pop, even though it's like.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: Well, what felt good about it though?
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: Was it like soothing in the sense like like how do you feel?
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: Because I've never gotten one, you guys.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: So you have to explain to is it like itchy?
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_01: Is it like painful?
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how does it feel?
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what are the things you want to soothe when you get a tattoo?
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: I know that sounds stupid, but like like I don't know.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_03: When you're getting a tattoo, right?
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_03: It's just it's literally thousands of needle pokes, right?
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_03: So it's extremely inflamed, irritated, bloody.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_03: Um, it's it's pretty it's an open wound, is what it is.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so to your point earlier, like like treating the inflammation in the in the initial period is is essential.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_03: But what the cool thing about what our soothing gel does as far as an effect on the overall kind of two-week process is it really turns those what were once really thick, heavy scabs from petroleum jelly into uh lighter flaking skin.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_03: So it's not those big chunks that you lose that you know reopen the wound, but it's more of a gradual uh flaking process as opposed to a scab.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: That's interesting.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: No, what about I have a question?
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_01: So, like what about those um laser procedures that people have done that remove tattoos and stuff?
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how can we use uh your products for those kind of procedures as well?
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: Because I know a lot of people were doing those for a while.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if they still are.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and that's that's definitely an increasing trend is tattoo removal in tandem with you know the increase in tattoo growth.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_03: Um, what a lot of people do is they they get their old tattoos blasted off and then get new tattoos over them.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but absolutely this the soothing gel would have the same effect as um on a on a tattoo removal as a new tattoo.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: That's so cool.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I actually want to ask, like, it might sound cliche to some, but honestly, I'm I'm curious because I've never understood, like, I mean, I understand that you know, there's a whole culture around getting tattoos.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: The tattoo culture is something that I don't understand because I've never been part of it.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: But what would you, I mean, it sounds kind of philosophical, but what would you guys say is really the culture around this?
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: And um when you were thinking about the demographic of consumers you're targeting, like what are some things that were important to you to keep in mind, like when you're approaching people who have tattoos?
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like, um, for those of us who don't know or you know are curious.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_03: That is a great question, and I'm so glad you asked it because it's something that has really evolved in the last 20 years or so.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I think if you you think back 20 years ago, I think a lot of people picture, and even today, a lot of people picture tattoo culture as you know, the grunge, the offensive, the rebellious, you know, dirty shop where you go and and get a tattoo to piss off your parents.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_03: That is is really no longer the case.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's become so normalized that at this point, tattoo culture is really an umbrella culture for the passionate people of a bunch of different subcultures.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_03: So, for example, like country music fans get tattooed, but at the same time, so do surfers.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_03: And at the same time as that, military.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and and it's really what you find is it's the people who, you know, I hate this pun, but like are literally wear their heart on their sleeve coming from so many different walks of life.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_03: So that's kind of like how tattoo culture has really evolved.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and that's where I think a lot of the you know, CPG skincare giants are really missing out, is they kind of view America, for example, as uh, you know, they they probably have that traditional view of tattoo culture being just a rebellious grunge culture when it's really not anymore.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, I can definitely see that, especially with like, you know, the history of America.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we saw rock and roll as you know, the death of all things, like back in the day, right?
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_01: So it's uh yeah, that's just how we are as a society, too.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's but those are great points.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for answering that.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: What about you, Salone?
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: What do you think?
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like, do you agree or is there anything you want to add?
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_02: No, I agree with everything Oliver said, but then with the tattoo culture, I think it's a culture that also like wants respect.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um and everyone who has tattoos is definitely passionate about something because if they weren't, they wouldn't put on their body.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_02: It's like you can't get away with making products that actually do not work.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_02: If you try that, like you're not gonna be successful in the field.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that's one place that we won was making sure that our products actually worked on tattoos and something that our customers could resonate in at the same time, help them tell their story and be proud of what they have on their skin.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: Now, what do you guys like?
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so I'm curious.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like, when you explain, if someone comes up to you and says, please explain to me why you got this tattoo, like, do you find that to be offensive, or do you find it to be okay, I mean, I'll tell you because it is, it does mean something to me.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: So I'd like to share that.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: How does that feel?
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: Because I've been always been curious, like, how that would feel time and time again, though.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_02: I personally would be fine with it because I feel like it's a way to meet new people and just get to know someone else without just randomly going to a stranger and without any tattoos trying to strike up a conversation.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I've asked a few people in my elevator, like, oh, that's a sick tattoo.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_02: Where'd you get it?
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_02: And then a conversation just blossomed from there.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_02: So I think it's just it's a conversation starter.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_01: That's cool.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I like that.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: What about you, Oliver?
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, Slam, I I totally agree with you.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_03: I actually I like it for the ones that that do have meaning and you know are something I want to talk about.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_03: So, for example, I have a couple tattoos from art history, um, which I'm I'm super passionate about.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_03: I have um a tattoo that I got with my brother on New Year's Eve on in 2020, which is kind of a funny story at this point.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I've I have a very personal family tattoo, and then I have a tattoo that I just got because I thought it looks cool, right?
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_03: So I I don't mind it, and it totally depends which one they're picking out.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but it to Salam's point, like it can turn into like really the the conversation that you know you never know what kind of value you're gonna get out of that.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: No, I can definitely see that.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: I can definitely see that.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it also depends on who's asking, I'm guessing.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: But um, you know, it it's interesting.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: That's an interesting thing, and I wanted to clarify that because hey, you know, you don't know till you ask, right?
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm some I've never gotten a tattoo.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: So, but that thank you for answering.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: I really want to actually talk about.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um skincare culture now with you guys because I would love to get your viewpoints, especially as two men and female, you know, male founders of a skincare line.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: What do you feel is the, you know, I don't know, the representation or the overall feeling in the industry about male founders and male um oriented skincare and all of those like buzzwords that marketing loves to use and you know, people love writing articles about.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what do you what do you think about that?
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: How has that been for you in terms of you know getting financed and getting uh your you know your lab situated, all those, all those details?
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: I'd love for you to share that.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_03: Um I I think it's at least the way I view it is it as a huge opportunity area, right?
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_03: Like skincare, especially in in men's, has been lagging for I'd say it's at least 10 years behind where women is.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_03: And honestly, like a majority of men are you know slow to adopt.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_03: Um with that being said, though, I look at I look at countries like South Korea that are so progressive in terms of like male makeup and things like that.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_03: And I don't really think it's a trend that goes the other way.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_03: I think once men start, you know, realizing that taking care of your skin is important for reasons beyond looking good, it's you know, it's about the health of your skin, it's the largest organ on your body.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_03: Like you really need to take care of your skin, whether it be as a tattooed person or not.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_03: Um I I think men are just a little slower to adopt, but you know, we at Mad Rabbit, despite what may come off as more male-oriented branding, um, we have a pretty even split, which you know, when you take that at market level, of course, that means a pretty heavy male lean, considering most women are the ones buying skincare.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_03: Um but we are 50-50 down the middle as of now, and and we're definitely continuing to push um in both markets, both female and male.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, we have women buying man like men's skincare as well, too.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: So that's gotta be hard to get like accurate numbers, right?
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like I could imagine it being difficult.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_01: Anything you want to add, someone?
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_02: Uh no, nothing there.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, it's just interesting because it's like, you know, um, I have spoken to, you know, maybe you know, too few, in my opinion, um, in terms of like male founders and just how it is and what the perception is.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: And it's always, you know, you hear things like, well, this is a male dominant industry, and I'm like, well, okay, maybe on some level, but like I think there needs to be a lot more.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's I I hate the word like representation for everything, but I think there just needs to be like just actions, you know.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_01: If you want to get men to understand skin health, then you're gonna have to understand how men think, right?
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's what I figure, and that's why I ask, because you know, the more we can understand how men think about consumerism and what it is that happens before some, you know, a man decides, okay, I'm going to buy this, and this is gonna be my thing that solves this problem, like that kind of psychology.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like that's all that we really need to be focused on, you know, really to understand the consumerism.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: But um, that's interesting to hear that from you guys.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_03: So that to that point though, like what a great way to get men to care about their skin is by entering through their tattoos, right?
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_03: The stuff they they care about, or can at least have a closer um under a better understanding of like, hey, I want my tattoos to look good, so I'll take care of my whole body skin.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_03: So I think we're kind of pushing the envelope in that way, or at least trying to.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: No, I agree.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I mean, honestly, here's the thing.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I was even thinking that when I um first saw your line because I was like, you know, um, most of the people I know are male.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_01: And also it's um important to not have everything in like packaging that is just, I don't know, nobody wants to sift through it.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like the transparency is there.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I wanted to actually discuss that with you because I know that that's one big thing consumers love, especially uh Gen Z loves talking about, you know, the more they know about a brand, the better they like them, it seems.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that's what I've heard from like editors and you know, just people I've had on that they really love transparency when it comes to consume, like what as consumers and what they're buying and what they're investing in.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: So um, from like the business perspective, what are some things that you've had to do to really shine a light on, you know, just who you are and um help people really understand you as a company?
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I would say one thing that we've been doing to help people understand who we are is going to tattoo conventions because you got to somehow also put a face to their brand.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um and it's been nice because whenever we go, we meet some of our customers and people get to know that oh, the people behind Mad Rabbit aren't people wearing suits.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_02: That's the trouble we had early on when we first started running Mad Rabbit.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_02: Is I had a full-time job job in corporate finance.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_02: Oliver did two.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_02: Our profile pictures on LinkedIn wear suits, and the people didn't really like that.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_02: And then now we can go to the tattoo conventions, have short sleeved shirts on, short sleeve short gorgeous shorts on show off our tattoos, and then the people just come up to us and are friendly and want to talk to us.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_02: So I think the tattoo conventions have been big for us.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I would say that sorry, go ahead.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: No, please continue.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_03: I was just gonna add that um I I totally think that you know Gen Z is the generation that is the one that commits to putting their money with spending their money with brands that align with their values and their vision, and I think corporate responsibility as a whole is really going to be such an important part of the companies that succeed in the future.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_03: Um so we we really try and do we we do things on a lot of different fronts.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_03: Um, first that I'd love to address is sustainability.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_03: So as of right now, all of our packaging is is aluminum, cardboard, or highly recyclable plastics.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_03: Um and we really do our best to maintain that moving forward.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_03: Um, second is is we made the decision as of Earth Day of last year to uh front the cost to make every single transaction on madrabbit.com carbon neutral.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_03: So it's you know, to to me that's the the least a corporation can do in in 2022.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_03: Um but it's it's a start for startups because you know in in practice, like we're we're grabbing at every dollar we can just to make sure that we live to see another day.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_03: But at the same time, like I truly have faith in the vision of of you know Gen Z and where they're going to put their dollars.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_03: So um sustainability is a huge pillar of our business.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_01: I really love that.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I I really like that you have um products for like the whole routine.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_01: I think that matters a lot because for people who I think you know, anytime you go through any kind of laser procedure, and that includes, you know, tattoos and that includes any invasive procedure in your skin, the amount of like you have to have a routine, you know, you have to have multiple products that can soothe and just help you.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I love that you've approached your company and your products in such a 360 way.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: I it really shows that you've done your homework as, you know, um two founders.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like I can see that in your brand.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: I can see that you've put the the amount of knowledge that it takes to address like maybe a get a demographic of people, right?
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like it takes a lot of effort to understand a demographic or a population of people and like what matters to them.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: So um I would love for you guys to like kind of round up the episode and tell me about anything you've learned on the journey or any advice you've you know gained that you can offer the listeners about being new entrepreneurs or anything really.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um I would say don't be afraid to ask questions.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um find an expert who's willing to help you.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um definitely never pay for any advice on the internet because you can always find it for free.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_02: And just don't be afraid to take a risk or don't be afraid to fail.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: What about you all over?
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_03: Um I'd honestly like to echo Son's advice and everything you said.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but I guess my advice would just come in the form of don't be afraid to start.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_03: Um if you're passionate about something and and have good values and and good vision, um it's it's really limitless.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_03: Don't be intimidated by the startup costs and don't be intimidated by the learning curve that's ahead of you.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_03: Um if you don't love it and you're not gung-ho about it, don't start.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_03: But um, you know, if you're kind of on the edge and teetering as to whether or not to begin something that could change the rest of your life, I'm I I think you need to go for it.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_03: So that's my advice.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I love that.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: And you know what?
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, you guys, I lied.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: I have one more question, and I really need you to like give me your honest opinions about this.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_01: But what do you think about like, you know, like the professional culture around tattoos?
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's like at work you have to cover them up, you have to not show people that you have them, like that kind of stuff.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what are your opinions about that?
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like, just gen general opinions.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_01: I would love to hear what you guys think.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like, do you think we need that in professionalism?
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like, to be a professional, do you think you have to cover up your tattoos?
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I do not think you have to cover up your tattoos.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_02: You're allowed to be free, you're your own human.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um, yeah.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I would like to say, like, if your job isn't let you express your art on your skin, then probably I don't know.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_02: I wouldn't say that's the place that is gonna help you shine or be the person you really want to be, because obviously you're your best self if you're confident, and if you're not confident there, then maybe go somewhere that makes you confident.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, I really like that.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'll tell you my opinion.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'll Oliver, I want to hear yours, but like I'll tell you, I really don't think it should be a thing that people have to like go through to just I don't know, unless it's offensive, you know, unless it's gonna cause somebody to faint, which is very rare.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_01: But Oliver, I want to hear your opinion if you don't mind.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you don't have to share, but no, no, absolutely.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I think I think it's extremely outdated.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's I think it's at a loss to the organization that's viewing it that way, in all honesty.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I think, for example, one of our advisors who's very involved in our our product formulation process is a tattooed dermatologist and skin cancer surgeon.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I think that there is a bygone era where if you know your surgeon has tattoos where you'd you know you'd be concerned, but again, all that really says is that they're passionate people.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_03: Um I think if anything, it should be a benefit.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_03: Um, interestingly, I I had a similar question about two months ago that I posted on LinkedIn and I asked, How are tattoos perceived perceived in your industry?
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_03: Um, 62% of them said nobody really cares.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_03: 26% of them said self-expression is encouraged, 9% said tattoos are frowned upon, and then 2% said tattoos will hinder promotion.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_03: So, and you know, my network is it's a lot of ex finance, it's a lot of banking people.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so that's that actually comes across as pretty encouraging to me.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_01: No, numbers speak, Oliver.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_01: I love that you actually shared that.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_01: I would love to do that again.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_01: With you know, we should start another one, another poll.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_01: I that's really interesting.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, because if you if you can prove as an industry, right?
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I mean, think about all the industries impacted by this medicine, definitely.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_01: We can't have anything showing, you know what I mean?
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like any kind of tattoo.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_01: Uh every industry, I feel like with a has deals with like office professionalism, like this is huge.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you should, you know, we should have some sort of like data that reflects like multi-industry opinions about like beauty and cosmetics, you know what I mean?
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like those kind of things.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like, absolutely.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm sorry.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_01: I just I just like thought of that like right when I was like, oh, we should round up the episode.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_01: But thank you guys so much.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_01: I love your answers and I love your brand.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I just really am so happy to see that you've thought so outside of the box and you've, you know, really put yourselves out there to be able to have another way people can connect.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_01: And that's really beautiful.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you so much for your time and for telling us all the amazing things about Mad Rabbit.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone listening, please check out the brand.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna link everything in the concept art for this interview.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_01: So I would love for you to interact with their website and leave us some feedback and leave uh any anybody on their team some feedback.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_01: But thank you so much for tuning in.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, guys.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_02: All right, thank you.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_02: Appreciate the time.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks, Ecta.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks.
• 34:53
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• 34:55
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• 36:00
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