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SMNTY Classics: The Moms Are Not Alright · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie. And Samantha.
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: And welcome to Stuff Never Told You, a production of iHeartRadio.
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: And today, which I believe is Halloween as this comes out.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's Saturday. Saturday, classic Halloween. We're bringing back a
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: classic on this... trope that i was seeing in a
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: lot of movies at the.
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: Time that i called the moms are not all right
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: but it was a bunch of movies that were coming
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: out around the same time that were about moms just
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: losing it like having a break or being like this
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: life is just not for me i'm divorcing my husband
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: i don't like him anyway i've never liked them like
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: a lot of movies like that so recently as we've
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: been discussing samantha and i traveled traveled together had a
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: successful trip i would say And when.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: I was on the plane, I.
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: Watched The Invite, which I had been meaning to see.
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: And then on the way back, I watched Die, My Love, which,
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: by the way, I know people do this. I've always
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: been kind of confused by it. But my seatmate, Katie,
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: she watched it on my screen and then asked me
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: what happened in it. And I was like, you could
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: have watched it on your screen.
• 1:32
  Speaker 3: I've discovered I think she just has a lot of FOMO,
• 1:35
  Speaker 3: and apparently this is the prime example of this FOMO.
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: Well, and she sent me a really funny meme about it.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: I know it's a thing. I know people do it.
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: But I was just like, I feel like normally you
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: do it with the person in front of you and
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: not the person next to you.
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: But I....
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: I couldn't explain it.
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: My partner does the same thing. I put the subtitles
• 1:57
  Speaker 3: on so he can know what's going on.
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: She said, I wish you would have put the subtitles on.
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: You have the exact same movie. You could have watched it.
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: She wasn't watching anything. She was just watching my screen.
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: This would be one of those moments where it's like,
• 2:18
  Speaker 3: Katie's your child and you're the mom and you're losing it.
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: Well, and I could feel her gaze.
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And I kept thinking, surely she's not just going
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: to bombard me with questions about this movie she could
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: have watched after.
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: But no, that's what happened. That's what happened. So I
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: watched that.
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: And then I watched If I Had Legs I'd Kick You,
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: which I'd also been meaning to see.
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: Let me tell you, the moms are still not all right.
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: This isn't all of them. Same theme. I was surprised.
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: It was a bit wilder.
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: Than I think some of the examples I used in
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: this classic.
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: Like, it's gotten more intense. It's gotten worse.
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: I will say, and we do talk about this in
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: here a little bit, it's still mostly white women.
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: At least at center, it's still mostly white women.
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: Which kind of reminds me of conversations we've had about
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: you know, a lot of the kind of white feminism
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: push was, we want jobs in the workplace. But meanwhile,
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: there was this whole other thing happening with women of color. Like, no,
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: we have the jobs. That's not, that's not what we, yeah.
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: So I get, I kind of get that vibe with
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: some of these movies of it's like white women who
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: are mothers who are having this like moment that maybe
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: has been happening for a long time in other communities.
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: But I just thought it was interesting.
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: I thought it was interesting that the three movies I
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: watched over this period of our travel, all three of
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: them were mostly about.
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: Mothers just not having it. Just not happy. And really
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: kind of losing control in some way. Or I guess,
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: you know, maybe finally expressing something they've been meaning to express.
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: And the men in their life not being great.
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true. They were all absent. Yeah. The realization.
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: It was interesting. I wasn't expecting, when I chose these movies,
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: to pick up on this thread again. But here we are. So,
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: please enjoy this classic episode. Hey, this is Dani.
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: And Samantha.
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: And welcome to Stuff Mom Never Told You, a production
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. And today we have an episode that I
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: have been hinting at in recent episodes. This one's kind
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: of a jumble of my thoughts, but there has been
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: some research done and I do have some of that.
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: That being said, there are going to be some spoilers
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: into some very recent media stuff. And I would say
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: particularly all her fault.
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: Which, by the way, Dakota Fanning playing a mom really
• 5:25
  Speaker 3: threw me off.
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: I want that to be noted at the very top.
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah. All right.
• 5:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: It has been interesting because she was so young when
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: she started as an actor.
• 5:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: It's like she grew up on the screen.
• 5:39
  Speaker 3: And I feel like as a person who was in
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: my 20s seeing her as a child, this is not OK.
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: I digress.
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: Yes, it was kind of bizarre.
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: Nothing we talk about, none of them are sponsors currently.
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: This is just something that's been on my mind, and
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: it feels like it's been on a lot of people's minds,
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: which is sort of the point I'm going to make.
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: But it is.
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: Kind of related to the single mother trope that we
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: see in horror that, Samantha, you talked about in our
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: religious horror episodes. Movies like Babadook, Conjuring 2. We didn't,
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: you know, I didn't even include The Exorcist in that,
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: but The Exorcist.
• 6:20
  Speaker 3: Oh, yeah.
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: Well, because like she, where was the father?
• 6:24
  Speaker 3: He wasn't, they weren't divorced, right?
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: He was like overseas, but he wouldn't even talk to
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: them on the phone.
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah. The absent father.
• 6:33
  Speaker 3: The absent father is a big yes.
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: So all of that is related.
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: And this is something I've been thinking about for a while,
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: because right now, and by right now, I mean in
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: the past two or three years, we are having some
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: kind of moment in entertainment around usually middle-aged white mothers,
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: usually pretty well-off middle-aged white mothers, having had enough done
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: with their husbands. They are done so right now two
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: of the movies that are inspiring big conversations around this
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: are if i had legs i'd kick you and die
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: my love which is also about postpartum depression uh and
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: one of the biggest shows is all her fault and
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: in recent times we've also had pretty little liars and
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: night and it's pretty striking how much of these movies
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: are pointing to the fact that moms are just not
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: okay and their husbands suck, and maybe.
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: We should murder them.
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: Something is going on, I'm telling you. So I know
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: what happens in all of these movies and shows. I
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: haven't seen If I Had Legs I'd Kick You or
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: Die My Love, but I know what happens. I kind
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: of knew what happened in Die My Love before I
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: even knew they were making a movie.
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: About it, but.
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: It is very, when I was watching All Her Faults,
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: which I did enjoy, I just was struck by, this is,
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: something is going on.
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: This is a pattern I'm seeing. And yeah, the moms
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: are not okay.
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: And I do want to say also, a lot of
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: these movies are sometimes in good faith and bad faith,
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: movies and shows, They're very divisive about... Sometimes it's like
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: men being, no! And other times it's just like, that
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: wasn't for me. But I think they're resonating with a
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: lot of people and they're causing a lot of conversation.
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: And I'm not a mother and it's amazing how often I.
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: Connect to them.
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: See?
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: I've been treated like that in a relationship. I've been
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: treated this way in a relationship with a man. And
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: it just feels like there's some kind of moment that's happening.
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: And oddly enough, I tried to look into it right
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: before this. And maybe I just wasn't using the right
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: search terms, but it doesn't feel like there's been much
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: written about it. But I'm telling you, there's something happening.
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: And I did find that A couple of very recent studies,
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: they were done during the pandemic, and it was saying, yeah,
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: moms are not okay. They're not doing well. Their mental
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: health is going down. Their physical health is going down
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: in a noticeable, measurable way. And most, all of the
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: things that I'm talking about here are set like in
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: our current times. So one of the big things that
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: comes up in these, it's usually it goes like this
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: in these things. A woman is, you know, happily married.
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: They have a kid and then suddenly it's very much
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: on her to stay home and take care of the kid.
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: Or if she doesn't stay home, it's still she takes
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: care of the kid, whether that's finding a babysitter or
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: a nanny or whatever it is. She's the one in
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: charge of the kid. And that's when the fractures in
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: their relationship start to show up. And then I really
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: appreciate how in a lot of these it's made clear They,
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: you know, obviously they love their kids, but it's when
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: you're just at home with a kid who can't really
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: speak to you or can't really, that's very isolating. And almost,
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: I think in every example, they have a career. So
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: they're all working moms also. And so this is, you know,
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: the husband kind of gets to keep his job and
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: not have the childcare impact it. But the mom either
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: has to leave her job or, the childcare impacts her job.
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: And at a certain point, the women reach a breaking point.
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: And it can manifest in a couple of ways, some
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: of them being murder, some of them being divorce. Well,
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: you know, it's very, a lot of this is very
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: Even me, I'll be like, yes, that's right, I agree.
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: But it does still feel over the top sometimes, like
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: kind of a soap opera kind of vibe, you know?
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: So it's not that I would necessarily cheer on. But
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: it's something about the kind of dramatics of the whole thing.
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: Dramatization.
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: Yes, yes.
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: Yes, exactly.
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: Exactly.
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: And so.
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: Comes to an end that way. And then usually there's
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: a group of friends.
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: Oh, yeah.
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: And most of these, except the two movies, it's a
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: group of friends, women who come together and are, you know,
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: airing their complaints about how their husband never does anything
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: and they're so tired and they just want support.
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: And all of this.
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: And they bond over that. And so it's a very
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: the women are providing support to each other, but the
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: husband is not. The husband is notably not only not
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: providing support, gaslighting them, weaponized incompetence all the time. I
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: think a lot of them do what we were talking
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: about recently now, where they use therapy terms as like.
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: A, I need my me time.
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: And they're like, you think I don't need my me time?
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: But having this friend group that really understands that of women.
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: And then coming to the realization that they're better off
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: single and having this friend group of women.
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: There's a lot worse in some of.
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: These of, you know, kind of abuse, emotional or physical.
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: But most of it is that I feel like.
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: We're finally kind of, maybe not finally, but we're really
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: having a moment where we're discussing things. The difference of... Yeah, she...
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: The mom is working so hard and taking care of
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: this kid and doing all of this stuff. And you
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: are making her feel bad about how she's messed up
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: here or not doing a good enough job here. But
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: you're not helping her at all. And you get to
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: enjoy the fun part of being the fun dad or
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: being the dad that shows up occasionally. And... Doesn't do
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: anything else. Doesn't do any of the hard stuff. Doesn't...
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: And then you tell her, but you're such a good mom, though.
• 14:21
  Speaker 3: No. No.
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: And I'm telling you, people pat enough. They pat enough. So.
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: I did want to talk about, this is where there's
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: some spoilers for, not, I'm trying to avoid the main
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: spoiler for all her fault, but I do think it
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: had so many that I was just like, this is
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: what I'm talking about.
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: And they just, they really.
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: Hit it home. I do. I really enjoyed the show.
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: And it was in part because it was sadly so
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: refreshing that, all of the women, there was one kind
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: of woman who was a villain, the PTA mom.
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: Of course.
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: The PTA mom who had the stay-at-home dad and was
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: always kind of pressuring all the other women into doing
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: XYZ and to feeling bad about whatever job they were
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: doing as a mom. She was the one that they
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: would often call if you needed to back up babysitter
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: because their husbands wouldn't do it. But yeah, she was
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: definitely like a villainous, but I feel like every other woman,
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: they were so supportive of each other because they all understood, yeah,
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: we're not getting any support really. And they do have,
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: there are, there pretty much everybody in here, except one
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: very notable exception.
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: Is very well off.
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: So they do have nannies, which is something most people
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: can't afford to have. But even so, outside of that,
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: because they're working all day, it's still on them to
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: take care of the kid outside of those times. So
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: Dakota Fanning's character, she befriends Sarah Snook's character, and Sarah
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: Snook is the main character, over kind of being annoyed
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: and tired of being called amazing and their husband's not
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: helping and all this stuff. And then Sarah Snook's character
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: goes missing. Her child goes missing. And Dakota Fanning's character
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: is the first suspect. But they kind of immediately are like,
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: I know it wasn't you. And I really liked that
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: they stuck together. And Dakota Fanning's character has a scene
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: that I just, I was like, I love. This feels
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: so good. Where she's like, I lost my son. I
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: can't do anything.
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: I need help. And Dakota Fanning's character was like, I'll
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: help you. What is it? I'll do it. Is it?
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: And she helps her set up a website. And her
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: husband wouldn't do it. But having this friend who would.
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: And so I really enjoyed their relationship. And you just
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: see all of these dudes who are not good. Because
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: the name is about the women keep getting blamed for
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: what happened to this child.
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: And guess what? It turns out it was a man
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: behind the whole thing. Which is violent. Yeah.
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: It's the whole thing. And that guy thinks he was
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: perfectly in the right. But it's just so much gaslighting.
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: At one point, Dakota Fanning's character learns that her husband
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: has been lying to her about an after-school show program
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: that he teaches because he's a teacher. And he just
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: takes that time to sit in his car and be
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: on his phone and stuff. And she confronts him and
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: is like, you think I wouldn't want this time?
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: You've been lying to me.
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: I think I saw that clip in TikTok because it
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: was a pretty good line about like, my outing is
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: me going to pick up groceries and these things and
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: your outing is to do for you. My outing is
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: to take care of y'all. This is not the same.
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: Is that that scene?
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah. It was like, I've never seen this show, y'all.
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: So I'm very coming in like, huh? But like, I
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: saw that scene. I was like, oh, damn.
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: Okay. Dakota being a mama.
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because she'd been lied to and she had to
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: interact with the PTA mom because of it. But it
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: was just really frustrating because he was so, she was
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: taking care of him too. He keeps texting her and
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: he'll be like, I don't know where to find the blanket.
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: I don't know where to find the bottle. And she says,
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: you know, just ask the kid. The kid knows. But
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: he's doing it, according to her, purposefully to make it
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: so difficult she won't ask him to spend time with
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: their kid. And she says, I would rather I don't
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: want our kid, who is a boy, to grow up
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: thinking this is what love is or what support is.
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: So I would rather get divorced than be with you.
• 19:21
  Speaker 3: Get on her oh man that is the correct answer.
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: Yes hard to talk about the other relationship that's forming
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: it majorly but essentially like um sarah snook's relationship with
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: her husband by the way that guy jake lacey he
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: just has a punchable face they even comment on it.
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: And it's the same thing dude i think i remember
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: because i get i think i saw a little clip
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: of it on tiktok this is how i get my previews.
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: He is the most generic looking dude because he was
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: in a movie with Jenny Slate. And I remember when
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: I first saw him, like he, his whole character was
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: being kind of like what you would expect is a uptight,
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: mid-level guy. corporate job that kind of doesn't climb it
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: like that type of dude but kind of handsome but
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: you're kind of staring like but is he or is
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: he just plain.
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: I think he's in the office he i think he
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: was pete he was like the.
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: Name just would randomly throw in young.
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: People at the very end that had a random relationship
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: with uh okay okay yeah yeah yeah.
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure that's him I can't remember exactly. Probably right.
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: I think he might be right.
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: Again, though, he might be a generic white dude that
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: kind of blends in with that other generic white dude.
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: Sorry.
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah. No, no. They commented on it a couple of times.
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: But he is a very gaslighting character. He's a very
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: controlling character.
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: He's very quick.
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: To blame his wife, uh, for everything while also not
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: knowing kind of anything at all. And I just, it,
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: he has a lot of skeletons in his closet that
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: come out that you're just, you can see who he
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: is and it's gross. And he thinks he's on the,
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: on the, like, he's the good one. He's the one
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: who's been taking care of everybody, protecting everybody. And he's
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: very judgmental about what is the good way to be.
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: He has a line at some point where he says, well,
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: it's clear she didn't have a man in her life,
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: so she shouldn't have been raising a child.
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: He's that kind of guy.
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: And it all comes out through this traumatic event of raising...
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: Raising a kid. I think there's only one good dude
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: character in the whole thing. Because even like the father of.
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: One of the fathers of one of the characters is
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: presented as somebody who might be, you know, not perfect,
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: but someone who cares about her. No.
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: No.
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: No. It's really sad, to be honest.
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: And there's a lot of other themes around apologizing for
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: what men did, like women feeling like they have to
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: apologize for what men did. The PTA mom and her
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: husband at one point say, well, you only have one child,
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: so you have plenty of time to volunteer to yep
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: um and then a lot of other comments and i
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: thought about this we've talked about it in several episodes
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: because i've heard this before but a lot of other
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: comments around uh towards women why didn't you sense anything
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: why didn't you sense anything was wrong um because at
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: one point the nanny is suspected so they're like why
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: didn't you you should have known And the.
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: Man can't even name who it is. But she's getting
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: grilled on who should have sensed it.
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: And another thing is the only reason the male detectives
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: caught who did it is that one of them is
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: actually an engaged parent. That's the only reason otherwise.
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: Yep. Yep.
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: This is kind of a personal note because there's a
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: scene where the husband is not happy with his wife's promotion,
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: our job success. And I remember once I was telling
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: my ex that I'd gotten a promotion and he immediately said, well,
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: I think I'm about to get a promotion. Like he
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: didn't even give me a space to say, oh, congrats.
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: Comparing.
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: Immediately. And it just struck me as such a like, okay, well.
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: Congrats to you! We'll celebrate again?
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: Both of us?
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And then.
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: There's one line. I believe it's in that Dakota Fanning
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: scene where they break up. But he says, I should
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: still be allowed to be me. It's like, oh.
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: You think I shouldn't be allowed to be me?
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: There's also.
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: There is a great line that I can't say without
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: spoiling it completely, but it's about how a lot of
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: these women were caring for their husbands, too, as if
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: they were kids. They were taking care of their family,
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: of their lunches, of any appointments that they might have
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: or anything they might need. And we talked about that
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: in our emotional labor episode. where that is something that
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: comes up a lot. And my mom definitely, she was
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: doing all that for my dad. She was the one
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: contacting his family and sending presents to his family. This
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: was another job she had to take on. And so
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: I think, and you know, maybe my mom is a
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: good parallel because I've said before, she, after my dad died,
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: she's told me like, she'll ask me these questions that
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: I'm sometimes so sad she's just asking them now about being,
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: not having a man and having this extra time and
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: all of these things. And I feel like there's some
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: moment that's happening where.
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: Moms are they don't want to do this anymore.
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: Right. I mean, honestly, I wonder if like, again, like
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: as influenced as we can be, but going back on
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: social media and seeing how other people live. And again,
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: we know we have to come back with the reality
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: that a lot of it is, you know, glamorized or
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: glossed over, whether it's to get that appeal to look
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: like that you have the perfect life or, you know,
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: finally understanding from everyone else, like the amount of comments
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: that I see on incompetent moments of like, There was
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: a big one, I don't know, Annie, if you saw.
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: Dude apparently went duck hunting. And when he comes back,
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: he sees everything's clean, but also everything's empty. And gets
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: a note with a ring saying, because he was supposed to,
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: apparently he was like, I was gone for a couple
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: of days. And that's how he wrote it. And then
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: you find out that he was supposed to be home
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: two days before. But he extended the trip with her
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: taking care of the kids and her being there without him. Whatever.
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: And he does this often. And she finally was done.
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: She was like, you know what? I've taken care of
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: the house. I've taken care of this. Me and the
• 27:33
  Speaker 3: kids are gone.
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: We're done.
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: And the amount of people were like, yeah, yeah, that's
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: what happened. And every single person being like, we know
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: what you did, dude. Don't act like she just left you.
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: And men came to be like, it's not that hard
• 27:46
  Speaker 3: to communicate. It's not that hard to understand that maybe
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: she needs an outing too. Like, again, this may be
• 27:51
  Speaker 3: on the, again, the very, the lowest standard of standards.
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: Then just understanding it. And some men are going to
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: be like, this happened to me and I didn't know
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: it was too late. Like so many of those comments.
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: And coming through social media and not realizing, oh, women
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: have actually left. And women coming back being like, this
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: was hard, but this is better. Like type of conversations
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: and being kind of like, okay. So I wonder if
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: finally like being able to recognize that. And naming things
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: like weaponized incompetence and like seeing that level being like, oh,
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: this is not normal. Because all we had to lean
• 28:30
  Speaker 3: on was generational trauma. So like for years, we saw
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: what the parents went through and that they were in
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: a really bad relationship, but you were taught you just
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: stick it out.
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: It's not to your part.
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: And then all of a sudden you see these other
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: examples of like, no, we broke that.
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: We broke that cycle.
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: And I think that it's interesting too that, and like
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: the boomer days of getting married, women didn't have, you know,
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: you couldn't get a credit card and you might not
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: be able to leave the house easily. And you didn't,
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: you were isolated in a lot of cases. And so
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: that's been one of my things that I've really picked
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: up on on these is that there are, there's a
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: group of women that usually, they come together with and
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: they all start complaining and and in at least several
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: of these cases of the examples i pointed out in
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: the end are like i would rather have this group
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: of friends they're more supportive if i am taking care
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: of not only the kid while i have a job
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: but also i'm taking care of you.
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: And the house then.
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: That is more work actually than being single but we
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: had been told for so long you've got to have
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: this nuclear family or else what else what are you
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: gonna do but now it's like actually it would be easier.
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: It'd be one less person and one less person to
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: be screamed out by And I can do my standard.
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: And again, I think we definitely will talk about this
• 30:05
  Speaker 3: because there's so many rollbacks when we see with women's rights.
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: A lot of people in those same comments that I
• 30:10
  Speaker 3: was talking about will say this is why the Republicans
• 30:13
  Speaker 3: and the conservatives and the Christian nationalists want to roll
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: back no-fault divorce. Yes. So they can keep women trapped
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: for longer.
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: Absolutely.
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: Absolutely.
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: And I did want to go back to another point
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: you made in that.
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: Scene where Dakota Fanning breaks up with her husband.
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: He basically is like, well, you should have said something.
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: And she said, I did. And I showed it to
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: you all of the time. You just didn't want to
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: see it. Because I think a lot of people do
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: say that, like, well, you never said something.
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: There were no signs. But there were.
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: Right. I mean, that's the realization. When people start saying that,
• 30:57
  Speaker 3: more people have come back with, like, no signs. I
• 30:59
  Speaker 3: bet you she'd already said it. When she finally gave up,
• 31:02
  Speaker 3: you thought she's quit. You thought, oh, good, the nagging stopped.
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: She's learned that I'm not going to change. But what
• 31:09
  Speaker 3: really happened was she no longer cared and was finding
• 31:12
  Speaker 3: an exit. Yeah.
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because you weren't listening to her.
• 31:16
  Speaker 3: Exactly.
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: And so I've.
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: Been enjoying these movies and shows, and I was reading
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: a couple of articles that were really interesting about them
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: before I came in, but they were kind of a
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: different topic. I more wanted to focus on what is
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: this that's happening right now. And I think it relates
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: to something we talked about in your recent happy hours
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: about the, where I just, people are, women especially are done, um,
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: With being asked to do all of this and getting
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: no reward and often having to lose something because of
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: it and being blamed for everything that could go wrong.
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: So something's happening.
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: Some of you have written in about specifically night about
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: your kind of torn thoughts on how it's presented. and
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: I think a lot of these have that, like I
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: said at the top, like they're kind of divisive in
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: some ways, but I do think that they have resonated
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: with a lot of people, whether you liked it or not,
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: but maybe there was a message in it that you
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: were like, Oh yeah, that, but just, yeah, I know
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: some of you have written in about some of these.
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: So, uh, read those.
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: I am really behind on Lister mail responding. I've read,
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: but the response is behind. Um, But I would love
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: to hear from all of you. I'm kind of hoping
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: to come back and do a bigger episode on this.
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: I'm hoping I can find some more research than I did,
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: than I could find. But there's, in my opinion, clearly something.
• 33:07
  Speaker 3: Going on.
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: Well, listeners, if you would like to contact us, you can.
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: You can email us at hello at stuffandnevertoldyou.com. You can
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: find us on Blue Sky at Mom Stuff Podcast or
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: on Instagram and TikTok at stuffandnevertoldyou. We're also on YouTube
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: and we have new merchandise on Cotton Bureau and we
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: have a book. You can get wherever you get your books.
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: Thanks as always to our super producer, Christina, our executive producer, Maya,
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: and our contributor, Joey.
• 33:31
  Speaker 3: Thank you.
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: And thanks to you for listening. Stuff Never Told You
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: is produced by Heart Radio. For more podcasts from Heart Radio,
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: you can check out the Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.