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Speaker Jim Jordan? · Pod Save America

• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Pod Save America, I'm Jon Favreau.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: I'm Jon Lovett, pro tempore.
• 0:23
  Speaker 3: I'm Tommy Dutour.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: Oh boy. Dumb thing I started. I really.
• 0:29
  Speaker 4: Quick note before we begin. If you can't make our
• 0:31
  Speaker 4: live show in D.C. this Thursday night, the good news
• 0:34
  Speaker 4: is that we'll be live streaming the event on Moment.co.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: It's going to be a great show.
• 0:38
  Speaker 4: We've got John Fetterman, Jose Andres, Virginia State Senator Jennifer
• 0:42
  Speaker 4: Carol Foy, and guest host Simone Sanders.
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: Hey, what a lineup.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: What a lineup.
• 0:47
  Speaker 4: You can get your virtual tickets at Moment.co.psa. On today's show,
• 0:52
  Speaker 4: we're going to talk about House Republicans inching closer to
• 0:54
  Speaker 4: making Jim Jordan.
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: Speaker of the House. Okay.
• 0:58
  Speaker 3: Sucks to say out loud.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: Sucks.
• 1:00
  Speaker 4: House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries will join to talk about
• 1:03
  Speaker 4: the Democrats' plan. And Crooked's own political guru, Shaniqua McClendon,
• 1:07
  Speaker 4: will stop by to talk about the big 2023 races
• 1:10
  Speaker 4: we're watching for an election that's exactly four weeks from today.
• 1:15
  Speaker 4: But first, let's start with the Israel-Hamas war and how
• 1:18
  Speaker 4: it's affecting U.S.
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: Politics.
• 1:20
  Speaker 4: Hamas has killed more than 1,300 people in Israel and
• 1:23
  Speaker 4: taken nearly 200 hostages. Israeli retaliatory strikes have killed at
• 1:27
  Speaker 4: least 2,800 people, and the government has ordered more than
• 1:30
  Speaker 4: half a million in northern Gaza to evacuate their homes
• 1:33
  Speaker 4: in preparation for an imminent ground invasion.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: The U.S.
• 1:36
  Speaker 4: And other governments are trying to prevent the humanitarian crisis
• 1:39
  Speaker 4: in Gaza from getting worse and stop the war from expanding.
• 1:42
  Speaker 4: President Biden talked about this in a sit-down with 60 Minutes.
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: Let's listen.
• 1:46
  Speaker 5: Are you asking Israel to establish a humanitarian corridor in
• 1:51
  Speaker 5: that area or get humanitarian supplies?
• 1:53
  Speaker 6: Yes, our team is talking to them about that. And, uh,
• 1:57
  Speaker 6: whether there could be a safe zone. We're also talking
• 1:59
  Speaker 6: with the Egyptians.
• 2:01
  Speaker 5: You would like to see humanitarian supplies brought into Gaza?
• 2:05
  Speaker 6: Yes. I'm confident that there's going to be an ability
• 2:10
  Speaker 6: for the innocents in Gaza to be able to have
• 2:14
  Speaker 6: access to medicine and food and water.
• 2:18
  Speaker 5: Would you support Israeli occupation of Gaza at this point?
• 2:22
  Speaker 6: I think it would be a big mistake.
• 2:24
  Speaker 5: Do you believe that Hamas must be eliminated entirely?
• 2:28
  Speaker 6: Yes, I do. But there needs to be a Palestinian authority.
• 2:33
  Speaker 6: There needs to be a path to a Palestinian state.
• 2:39
  Speaker 4: So it seems like Biden's attempting to thread quite a
• 2:41
  Speaker 4: needle in both his public statements and the U.S.
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: Response.
• 2:45
  Speaker 4: He sounded a bit more forward-leaning there on urging restraint
• 2:47
  Speaker 4: and the protection of civilians, but I'm not sure what,
• 2:50
  Speaker 4: if any, effect that will have on the Israeli response. Tommy,
• 2:53
  Speaker 4: what's your takeaway from that interview and what the administration's
• 2:57
  Speaker 4: trying to achieve right now?
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: The goals? I think, you know, they're trying to show
• 3:00
  Speaker 3: unwavering support for Israel after this, you know, horrific, historic
• 3:04
  Speaker 3: trauma that they just went through. I think Biden is
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: also trying to warn other parties in the Middle East,
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: specifically Hezbollah and Iran, not to get involved. So you're
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: hearing that rhetorically, and you're also seeing it when he
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: redirected two aircraft carriers to the region, you know, saying like,
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: do not fuck around or you'll find out. And then,
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: you know, you're beginning to hear some of this messaging
• 3:23
  Speaker 3: about the humanitarian situation in Gaza. I would like to
• 3:25
  Speaker 3: hear a lot more of that. I would like to
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: hear that message backstopped by some pressure on Netanyahu publicly
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: and privately, preferably for at least a temporary ceasefire to
• 3:36
  Speaker 3: allow in some humanitarian relief. I'm glad to hear Biden
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: say that he doesn't want Israel to reoccupy Gaza militarily.
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: I think that would be, frankly, impossible to do and
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: a disaster for everyone involved. And then I mean, obviously, domestically,
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: he's trying to show everyone who's turning on the TV,
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: scared to death, hearing about another massive war, that he's
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: on top of the situation. And I think, you know,
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: to the extent that there are kind of like big
• 3:59
  Speaker 3: tools in your toolkit as a communications person, like a
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: 60 Minutes interview actually is one in terms of what's
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: available now, right? The Deion Sanders episode recently got almost
• 4:07
  Speaker 3: 12 million viewers. So I think it was smart to
• 4:09
  Speaker 3: do this now because he probably reached a lot of people.
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: What'd you think of the interview? I love it.
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: I was surprised to see that he was doing it
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: so quickly. It seems like they got it together really quickly.
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, really fast.
• 4:19
  Speaker 7: And....
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: I, my, what I was thinking when I was watching it, honestly,
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: was imagine Donald Trump during this moment. I know we'll
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: get to it, but that was entirely, that was my thought.
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: And it was the other piece of it. I like,
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: you know, we do this show Monday. I try to
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: step away from this news over the weekend. And every Monday,
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: I feel like I'm now reentering this and like kind
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: of just sort of this.
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  Speaker 3: Awful, awful conflict.
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  Speaker 2: And you see Joe Biden there. And you see someone
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: who really has been kind of training their whole life
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: to be in this situation. And I don't know how
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: you feel about this, but even just seeing Tony Blinken
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: and Jake Sullivan, these are people we know. These are
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: people we've known for a really long time, people we
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: know to be kind of ethical, thoughtful, compassionate people who
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: got into politics for the right reasons, who have thought
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: about what they would do if they were ever in
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: a situation like this. And now they find themselves in it,
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: trying to navigate this, trying to show support for Israel
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: in the wake of this attack, while at the same
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: time believing deeply that it's not just a humanitarian necessity
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: to urge restraint on the part of Israel, but also
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: ultimately in Israel's interest to not have a bloody and
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: unending siege in Gaza without end, uh, and, um, one
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: that alienates it further from its neighbors and from Palestinians.
• 5:49
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: Did you guys watch the episode?
• 5:51
  Speaker 3: The other part of it was, I mentioned, I think
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: last week, my friend Amir T-Bone, who's a reporter for Haaretz,
• 5:56
  Speaker 3: they were, they interviewed him, his wife and his father,
• 5:59
  Speaker 3: the father being a retired Israeli general who literally got
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: in his car with a pistol and his wife drove down,
• 6:05
  Speaker 3: saved a shill of people along the way and then
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: rescued his son. It's like the most amazing story you've
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: ever seen.
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, it is.
• 6:10
  Speaker 4: And, um, I do wonder, like, you know, we're going
• 6:12
  Speaker 4: to talk about the polls in a little bit, but
• 6:14
  Speaker 4: like the, just the, the percentage of Americans following the
• 6:18
  Speaker 4: story closely is, you know, in the seventies. So I
• 6:24
  Speaker 4: w I do wonder like what kind of ratings that 60,
• 6:27
  Speaker 4: like how many people would see that 60 minutes interview.
• 6:29
  Speaker 4: And obviously you'd be deeply affected, not only by Joe Biden, but,
• 6:31
  Speaker 4: but the story that you just mentioned as well, Tommy,
• 6:33
  Speaker 4: because it is, you know, I have, I don't watch
• 6:36
  Speaker 4: a lot of, I keep up with the news on,
• 6:38
  Speaker 4: on Twitter or other places online.
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: But I don't like watch a lot of TV.
• 6:41
  Speaker 4: And when you start watching TV about the crisis, which
• 6:44
  Speaker 4: I only do when there are big, big stories like this,
• 6:47
  Speaker 4: it really becomes a more affecting sort of story about
• 6:51
  Speaker 4: what happened in Israel, the massacre, the response, the plight
• 6:54
  Speaker 4: of Palestinian civilians right now. Like it's, it's actually, it's
• 6:57
  Speaker 4: much more emotional when you watch it on TV than
• 6:59
  Speaker 4: when you just read about it as well.
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, look, cable news was born in war
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: and it was.
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: This is its medium.
• 7:06
  Speaker 4: So two administration officials told Politico that Biden is weighing
• 7:10
  Speaker 4: a trip to Israel, strongly considering is the latest that
• 7:12
  Speaker 4: I saw now. Obviously, that would be quite a show
• 7:15
  Speaker 4: of support, and it would be a sleepy basement Joe's
• 7:19
  Speaker 4: second visit to a live war zone, but it would
• 7:21
  Speaker 4: also obviously align him more closely with Israel's response and
• 7:26
  Speaker 4: carry plenty of risks, both to his security and political standing.
• 7:31
  Speaker 4: What do you guys think about the prospect of a visit?
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: Look, my immediate, completely cynical political take was, Joe Biden's
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: approval rating on how he managed Ukraine has gone up
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: over the course of that war. One of his best
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: moments as president was when he traveled to Ukraine. I
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: think there is value to seeing Joe Biden at his
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: best in that way as America's representative abroad. And I
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: think you can justify whatever political value there is in
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: that in the hopes that a visit from the American president.
• 8:04
  Speaker 3: To Israel could do two things.
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  Speaker 1: One is.
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: Create pressure on Israel from the United States in terms
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: of its humanitarian response in Gaza, that that message could
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: be delivered more powerfully in person and at the same
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: time show America's support for Israel in the region. Those
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: things are in some sense in conflict, but I don't
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: think should be.
• 8:26
  Speaker 3: So my anxiety spiked in the exact opposite direction because
• 8:30
  Speaker 3: I was thinking about when Biden went to Ukraine, obviously
• 8:33
  Speaker 3: it was logistically very difficult, right? You fly to, I
• 8:35
  Speaker 3: think you fly to Poland, you took a 10 hour
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: train ride. shows up in Kiev. But before he got there,
• 8:42
  Speaker 3: we were able to tell the Russians, hey, President of
• 8:45
  Speaker 3: the United States is going to Kiev. Do not do
• 8:47
  Speaker 3: anything stupid or you will be nuked, essentially. I think
• 8:51
  Speaker 3: that kind of- You think we have that line open
• 8:52
  Speaker 3: with Hamas? I mean, I don't know that that kind
• 8:54
  Speaker 3: of mutually assured destruction message works with kind of quasi-governmental
• 8:59
  Speaker 3: terrorist groups like Hamas or Hezbollah. I think they would
• 9:02
  Speaker 3: love it. Picking off an American president would be the
• 9:04
  Speaker 3: greatest thing that ever happened in the organization. So I
• 9:06
  Speaker 3: also think like a U.S. presidential visit is very resource
• 9:09
  Speaker 3: intensive for the host country. I think in the near term,
• 9:12
  Speaker 3: at least, anything Biden says in the U.S. will get
• 9:15
  Speaker 3: a ton of pickup in Israel. I think Tony Blinken's
• 9:18
  Speaker 3: first visit was received incredibly well. He's back there right
• 9:22
  Speaker 3: now as we speak. Lloyd Austin, the Secretary of Defense,
• 9:24
  Speaker 3: just went. But, you know, when Tony and Netanyahu were meeting,
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: they had to leave their meeting and go to a
• 9:29
  Speaker 3: bomb shelter. You know, so it is literally not safe.
• 9:32
  Speaker 3: So my advice would be pump the brakes on foreign
• 9:34
  Speaker 3: travel for a little bit. maybe go later. But I
• 9:37
  Speaker 3: hear what you're saying, Levitt. I absolutely think it would
• 9:40
  Speaker 3: endear Biden to the Israeli people in a very meaningful way.
• 9:44
  Speaker 3: I also think it might lead us to owning the
• 9:46
  Speaker 3: results of this IDF offensive in a way that we
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: might not be very uncomfortable with.
• 9:52
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's my anxiety as well. And just thinking about
• 9:57
  Speaker 4: how obviously the people of Israel have rallied together at
• 10:01
  Speaker 4: a time like this because of the horrific massacre, but
• 10:03
  Speaker 4: that hasn't yet translated to more approval of Netanyahu. In fact,
• 10:08
  Speaker 4: it's translated to less approval of Netanyahu. And I'm just
• 10:10
  Speaker 4: wondering about images of Biden and Bibi together and how
• 10:14
  Speaker 4: that wears over time.
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I, I think you see, you guys, you talked
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: about this on policy of the world. You know, we've
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: talked about this here that you see that there is
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: a nuance in how Israelis are responding broadly supportive, you know,
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: rallying together, but at the same time, um, uh, angry
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: at the Netanyahu government, uh, for allowing this to happen.
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: I think there's a way for Joe Biden to show
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: his support for Israel and stand with the prime minister
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: of Israel all at the same time, not signaling total
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: unwavering support for that government specifically.
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: I mean, there was a, maybe not like his arm
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: around him.
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't, I don't think so.
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: But there was a, you know, like I look like,
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: it is, there was a, there was a story in
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: the times, the Gal Hirsch, who's the retired general who's
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: been appointed to kind of oversee and coordinate the response
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: with families around hostages. They met with families in the
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: basement of a Tel Aviv parking lot. And he was
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: discussing about, he said, you know, this is going to
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: take time. And he said something like, you'll have my,
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: you have my number. And he started to leave. And
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: these members of this family started shouting, the government is
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: blowing up its citizens. The government is blowing up its
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: own citizens. There is a, Like there is this sort
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: of like primal scream in this response. And at the
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: same time inside of Israel, there is a deep uncertainty,
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: discomfort with what is happening as well. And I don't think,
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: I think that that can, The American president showing support
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: for Israel and its right to exist and its right
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: to defend itself doesn't mean it's giving carte blanche to
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: a Netanyahu administration for whatever.
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: It does next.
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: I just think that that's how it'll be viewed by
• 11:39
  Speaker 3: the vast majority of the world if he shows up there.
• 11:41
  Speaker 3: And listen, at the end of the day, I think
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: Joe Biden probably really wants to go to Israel and
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: he probably will eventually. But just in terms of your
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: point about Netanyahu's polling. There was a recent poll where
• 11:50
  Speaker 3: they asked, who would you rather see as prime minister,
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: Netanyahu or someone else? Anyone else. They didn't name anybody else.
• 11:56
  Speaker 3: Two thirds chose someone else without even knowing who it
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: would be. And I think only 21% chose him.
• 12:00
  Speaker 4: Joe Biden's like, someone else is, he's bugging me in
• 12:03
  Speaker 4: the United States too.
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: Someone else is everywhere.
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: We gotta stop this someone else. What's their secret?
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: Macron's like, someone else, he's getting me too?
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: Only 75%, only 75% want someone else.
• 12:13
  Speaker 9: What's your secret?
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 12:19
  Speaker 4: So anyway, someone else is stalking center right leaders everywhere.
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: Right wing leader all over the place. Yeah.
• 12:24
  Speaker 4: Anyway, speaking of polls, multiple polls taken since the attack
• 12:28
  Speaker 4: are all generally saying the same thing. Most Americans, healthy
• 12:32
  Speaker 4: majority of Americans favor U.S. support for Israel. But that
• 12:35
  Speaker 4: hasn't yet translated to majority support for Biden's handling of
• 12:39
  Speaker 4: the crisis.
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: What do you guys make of those polls?
• 12:43
  Speaker 4: Dan suggested in his latest message box that Biden should
• 12:45
  Speaker 4: sort of lean into the contrast between the seriousness of
• 12:49
  Speaker 4: his response, and the unseriousness of the Republican Party, which
• 12:52
  Speaker 4: I think is right.
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: What do you guys think?
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, you know, Trump said, repeatedly said how
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: smart Hezbollah is. He attacked Bibi Ninjahu for not being
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: part of a counter-ISIS operation that they were never asked
• 13:05
  Speaker 3: to be a part of, I don't think. And he
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: called the Israeli defense minister a jerk. So I would
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: absolutely highlight that. You can also sort of layer in
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: the congressional dysfunction and maybe make that a part of
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: the part of the TV ad or whatever it is.
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: I think if Biden does a campaign event and he's
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: talking about this situation, I mean, you probably want to
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: be careful not to be seen as politicizing what's happening,
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: even if Donald Trump is. But the Trump message is
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: going to be like, this never would have happened if
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: I was president. So it's just hard to dispute that. Ultimately,
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: I think though, people are turning on the TV and
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: they're seeing scary things and they want it fixed.
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean?
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: And I think that's where you're going to drive the
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: most political benefit, whether You certainly want to contrast your
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: opponent as you get closer to the election, but I
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: think in the near term, it's like, I don't know, man.
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: We got to get a lid on this thing, have
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: people not seeing horrific images coming out of Gaza of
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: kids being killed. I mean, that would be my focus.
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: So one thing I took away from some of the polling,
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: so nearly all Americans, 84%, expressed at least some sympathy
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: for both Israeli and Palestinian people as they face ongoing fighting,
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: which is just a reminder that, as always... the tenor
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: of what is taking place online and the loudest voices
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: does not represent the vast majority of people and how
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: they feel, many of whom I think, if we think
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: that this issue is one of the hardest issues to
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: talk about, it's how much harder for people that aren't
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: paying close attention, who understand how sensitive it is, who
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: see the kind of incredible emotion and intensity people.
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: Bring to it.
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: So that's one piece of this. One thing I found
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: that sort of stopped me when I was looking at
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: the polling is, so there's broad support in the United
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: States that Israel's response is in some way justified, either
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: fully or partially, but it breaks down by age. 81%
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: of those age 65 and older see Israel's response as
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: fully justified. Only 27% of 18 to 34-year-olds see it
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: as fully justified. Now, there's a big majority that views
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: it at least partially justified, like that sort of broad base.
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: But I think there's something in that fully, which is
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: sort of, I think, about the kind of ambivalence around U.S.
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: support for Israel that grows as you get younger and
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: as you move from right to left. And I think
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: that does tell you something about how the politics of
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: this issue are changing. And also that there are like
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: arguments that just aren't being made. And there are these
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: sort of two polls, you see it in Congress, right?
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: There's this bipartisan resolution supported by a lot of people
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: that is exclusively around support for Israel in the wake
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: of the attack. Then you have this resolution by Cori
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: Bush and Rashida Tlaib and others that is about calling
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: for a ceasefire. These kind of I mean, look, resolutions,
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: what are they worth? I don't know, but they are
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: speaking past one another. And I do think that there
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: are these sort of, in this big middle, there is
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: this part of the conversation that isn't happening, which is,
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: I think, mistrust on the side of people who believe
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: in Israel's right to exist and to defend itself, that
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: those who are agonizing righteously and correctly on behalf of
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: the Palestinians do so without appreciating or recognizing the security
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: needs and just simply the right of Israel to exist.
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: And on the other side, I think that there is
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: fear and concern and mistrust on the part of those
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: who are worried rightly about what is happening in Gaza,
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: that there is not enough compassion and worry for the
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: people of Gaza by those who are advocating for Israel's
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: right to defend itself. And I think like the two,
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: that when you look at these numbers and you see
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: that a lot of young people are watching this and
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: just don't feel fully behind, don't believe that Israel's defense
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: of itself is fully justified, which I think there's legitimate
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: reasons to not believe it is fully justified, whatever that
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: term means. it tells me that there is a kind
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: of conversation that isn't happening, a kind of shorthand in
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: our politics about why the U.S. supports Israel, why the
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: United States has had this policy for so long, why
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: those of us who believe in Israel's right to exist
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: and its importance, who believe in a Jewish and democratic state,
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: also believe that Israel showing restraint and protecting the rights
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: of people in the Palestinian territories to live and exist
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: and have the chance of a better life is part
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: of how you support Israel's right to exist.
• 17:04
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and look, I think the fact that so many
• 17:07
  Speaker 4: young people are part of the democratic party's coalition of
• 17:10
  Speaker 4: voters speaks to why Joe Biden's approval rating on the
• 17:14
  Speaker 4: issue is not higher. I think that's one factor at least. Uh,
• 17:18
  Speaker 4: I think the other factor is Joe Biden's approval ratings
• 17:20
  Speaker 4: are just low. And if you look at his approval
• 17:24
  Speaker 4: rating on almost every issue they tested in these polls,
• 17:27
  Speaker 4: his handling on Israel, Hamas is actually slightly higher than
• 17:31
  Speaker 4: other issues slightly, but they're all Ukraine is, is bad. Um,
• 17:36
  Speaker 4: border security, the economy, like it's just all very low
• 17:39
  Speaker 4: right now. And so I do wonder how much you
• 17:42
  Speaker 4: can read into the approval ratings on his handling of
• 17:45
  Speaker 4: this conflict as about his handling of this conflict or
• 17:48
  Speaker 4: just the fact that he is dealing with low approval
• 17:51
  Speaker 4: ratings at this moment. But to your second point about
• 17:54
  Speaker 4: sort of what's happening in the Democratic Party, most Democratic
• 17:57
  Speaker 4: politicians are still strongly supportive of Israel. Chuck Schumer traveled
• 18:01
  Speaker 4: there with Mitt Romney over the weekend. But more than
• 18:04
  Speaker 4: 50 House Democrats have signed a letter pressing the administration
• 18:06
  Speaker 4: to help limit civilian casualties in Gaza. As you mentioned, Lovett,
• 18:09
  Speaker 4: there's the resolution introduced by five House Democrats today calling
• 18:12
  Speaker 4: for a ceasefire. They will all get a say in
• 18:14
  Speaker 4: the response when Congress eventually votes on aid to Israel.
• 18:17
  Speaker 4: A lot of chatter that Democratic disagreement over the response
• 18:20
  Speaker 4: could pose a political problem for the party. I tend
• 18:23
  Speaker 4: to think it could, but also having lived through the
• 18:26
  Speaker 4: aftermath of 9-11 and the Iraq war, I think it's
• 18:29
  Speaker 4: healthy and important for people in the party to raise
• 18:31
  Speaker 4: concerns about both civilian casualties and the possibility of a
• 18:35
  Speaker 4: larger war that could put more lives at risk, including
• 18:38
  Speaker 4: American lives.
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: Tommy, what do you think?
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's unavoidable. I mean, I think that
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: we're a party that is diverse by definition. And the
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: range that Lovett talked about reflects the range of opinion
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: among Democratic voters. And I think, like, I personally think
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: that in 2021, the last time there was a brief
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: war in Gaza, pressure from the left, calling for a ceasefire,
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: calling for restraint, calling for eliminating civilian casualties was helpful.
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: I think that that outcome will not only save a
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: bunch of civilians in Gaza, but I think it's fundamentally
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: in our interest as Americans to do whatever it takes
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: to prevent this war from spiraling out of control. If
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: Hezbollah gets involved, if God help us, Iran gets involved directly,
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: there's American hostages, we think, held in Gaza. Every single airstrike...
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: puts them at risk. Like four days ago, there'd been 6,000 airstrikes.
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: What's it at now? There's carpet bombing this place. Yeah.
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 19:33
  Speaker 3: And these, these hostages are spread all over the place.
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: So I also think like, look, Israel went through a
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: horrific traumatic incident, but I think that is not a
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: reason to outsource all of our thinking and decision-making to
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: BB Net and Yahoo. I do not trust him. I
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: don't trust him to do the right thing. I do
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: not trust him to put Israel's security above his own
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: political interests. You know, I, most Israelis agree with that sentiment.
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: So like, I understand that people want to destroy Hamas.
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: I don't know that there is a purely military answer
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: to that problem, right? There needs, you have to figure
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: out a way to try to find these hostages and
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: rescue them. You have to figure out a way to
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: take out Hamas's leadership. But talking about rolling 100,000 Israeli
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: troops into Gaza to wage a sustained ground war campaign,
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: that is a recipe for tens of thousands of deaths
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: and potential disasters. So those are the things. I'm glad
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: there's disagreement in the party if it means there's voices
• 20:31
  Speaker 3: on the left saying, hey, don't do that.
• 20:33
  Speaker 4: I also think That, you know, we're going to talk
• 20:35
  Speaker 4: about Republicans in a second, but we have we know
• 20:38
  Speaker 4: what one party in this country thinks about the crisis
• 20:41
  Speaker 4: and the rhetoric they're going to use. And obviously we
• 20:44
  Speaker 4: are now and have been for some time dealing with
• 20:47
  Speaker 4: a rise in anti-Semitism within the United States and all
• 20:50
  Speaker 4: around the world. There is also now rising Islamophobia again.
• 20:55
  Speaker 4: In the United States, there was a six-year-old Palestinian-American boy
• 20:58
  Speaker 4: from Illinois who was stabbed to death over the weekend
• 21:00
  Speaker 4: by his landlord because of his Muslim faith, who was screaming,
• 21:03
  Speaker 4: you Muslims must die, as he stabbed the six-year-old. Obviously,
• 21:06
  Speaker 4: there have been anti-Semitic incidents and attacks for not just
• 21:10
  Speaker 4: since this horrific attack in Israel, but over the last
• 21:12
  Speaker 4: several years.
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: Often in Donald Trump's stump speech.
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: Right, often in Donald Trump's speech.
• 21:17
  Speaker 4: So I think having at least one party that is
• 21:21
  Speaker 4: thoughtful and careful about How much we support military efforts,
• 21:25
  Speaker 4: what we do, thinking about civilian casualties, thinking about taking
• 21:29
  Speaker 4: the temperature down is incredibly important going forward because we
• 21:32
  Speaker 4: only have one party that's willing to do that.
• 21:34
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: You know, after 9-11 in the United States, there was
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: this ridiculous idea that like, oh, you know, we're not Democrats,
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: we're not Republicans, we're all Americans. And why did that
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: take off and why do people think that was true?
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: Because what was happening is for a brief time, the
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: only way it was acceptable to be in public was
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: to be conservative. that we united by kind of like
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: excising a lot of kinds of dissent and deciding that
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: the only response you could have was conservative. It is
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: good to see that there is inside of Israel, even
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: in this moment, far more disagreement and debate. One of
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: the lessons to me of 9-11 is that was a
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: massive intelligence failure. It was a government failure to prevent
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: those attacks. And in the face of such an overwhelming failure,
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: part of the reason the response had to be so
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: large was to say, this was such a massive success,
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: not because we failed to stop it, but because the
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: threat is so great and so vast. We don't know
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: what the world would look like today if this attack
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: hadn't also been made so much worse by the fact
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: that Israel seemed to be caught off guard by it, right?
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: We don't know what would have happened had there been
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: more security around Israel the Gaza Strip, if there hadn't
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: been a sense in which Netanyahu and the government took
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: their eye off the ball. We don't know. But because
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: we don't know, the attacks caused so much devastation. And
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: so the government is responding in a way that tries
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: to meet the level of failure with a response that
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: seems commensurate with the pain Israel is going through. But
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: none of that will serve Israel's interest in the long term.
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: And I do think that when I see that letter...
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: So that letter from these 50 House Democrats... It's a
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: good letter. It's, I think, pretty straightforward. And I think
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: it speaks from a place of not just wanting there
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: to be humanitarian aid and protection for people in Gaza
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: who are not responsible for Hamas's atrocities, but also because
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: it is in Israel's interest to not unleash a decade
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: of instability in the region, to unleash a level of
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: chaos that they have no idea how they're going to
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: get back from. I know that there was a story
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: that broke today that the Biden administration is urging the
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: Netanyahu government to figure out what its exit strategy will
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: be in Gaza. And it's pretty clear that right now
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: they don't have one.
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: Well, yeah, or any plan. I mean, also, listen, they're
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: not going to kill their way out of this problem.
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: There needs to be a political solution, a set of
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: negotiations that lead to a political accommodation that leads to
• 24:06
  Speaker 3: a Palestinian state. Absent that, there are going to be
• 24:10
  Speaker 3: people like Hamas who get power and do things like
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: what we saw a week ago.
• 24:28
  Speaker 4: So Republicans aren't exactly unified on this issue either. Donald
• 24:31
  Speaker 4: Trump's primary opponents are hitting him over remarks where he
• 24:34
  Speaker 4: praised Hezbollah as very smart, criticized Netanyahu and told Israel
• 24:37
  Speaker 4: to straighten it out and strengthen themselves up.
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: Here's a clip.
• 24:41
  Speaker 8: And it's reckless and irresponsible. for former President Trump or
• 24:46
  Speaker 8: any American leader to send any message other than full
• 24:50
  Speaker 8: and unconditional support to Israel. It's the wrong place at
• 24:55
  Speaker 8: the wrong time.
• 24:55
  Speaker 5: This isn't about Trump. It's not about him.
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: He's a fool. Only a fool would make those kind
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: of comments.
• 25:04
  Speaker 7: Now is not the time to be attacking our ally.
• 25:07
  Speaker 7: You're not going to find me throwing verbal grenades at
• 25:11
  Speaker 7: the Israeli leadership.
• 25:12
  Speaker 4: So do you think this could actually make a difference
• 25:14
  Speaker 4: in the primary? My view on this is if Trump
• 25:17
  Speaker 4: decided to say that Netanyahu needs to go and we
• 25:21
  Speaker 4: should stop spending so much money in Israel and Israel
• 25:25
  Speaker 4: should take care of itself, he would lose almost no
• 25:28
  Speaker 4: support from his base because they love him and they
• 25:30
  Speaker 4: love isolationism.
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: But maybe I'm just being too... Yeah. Too pessimistic.
• 25:34
  Speaker 3: I think betting on the theory that the cults will
• 25:37
  Speaker 3: do what the cult leader says is usually a good one.
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: When it comes to my base.
• 25:40
  Speaker 3: I mean, look, for a variety of reasons, like right
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: wing evangelical Christians in the US are some of the
• 25:45
  Speaker 3: most fervent supporters of Israel in the entire country, far
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: more so than a lot of Jewish Americans. You know,
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: a lot of them literally think Israel's existence is God's will.
• 25:53
  Speaker 3: And so, you know, look, Trump's comments about Hezbollah and
• 25:56
  Speaker 3: attacking BBE and attacking the defense minister were profoundly weird.
• 25:59
  Speaker 3: I don't think anyone argued that. But he has a
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: long record of supporting Israel that I think these evangelicals
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: will be educated on. That includes moving the U.S. embassy
• 26:07
  Speaker 3: to Jerusalem. It means recognizing Israeli sovereignty over the Golan Heights,
• 26:12
  Speaker 3: which is territory that they took from Syria in 1967.
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: It means the Abraham Accords, which were when the U.S.
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: basically bribed a bunch of countries to announce normalization deals
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: in with Israel. So these were huge political gifts in Netanyahu.
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: They're wildly popular in Israel. And I think this evangelical
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: base will have heard about them. And so I think
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: that maybe you can peel off like some of the
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: more rational, like very pro-Israel Republicans or people who just
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: are like, you know what, I'm out. Like that was
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: too weird. This guy's lost it. But my guess is
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: that this is very similar to the debate over abortion rights,
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: where there's some activists who are like, we're annoyed he
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: won't come out for a 15 week national ban. But
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: he gave us the Supreme Court.
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean?
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: Like, we know where he really stands. We know he's
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: been there for us.
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: I think if you would ask me a month ago,
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: I would say that Donald Trump has, like, made an
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: argument that appeals to a lot of older Jews who
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: are inclined to see Fox News and say things like,
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: you know, Trump's been supportive of Israel and there's a
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: bunch of anti-Semites in the Democratic Party. So I do
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: think he sort of, like, as Tommy's saying, sort of, like,
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: has those sort of baseline of kind of credibility, for
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: lack of a better word, in the issue. But even
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: if he didn't, what about... the last six years tells
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: us that what Republicans are looking for is kind of
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: a stable hand on the tiller. Like we think like
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: Nikki Haley, this is going to be the moment everyone's like,
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: you know, after he was indicted and put a gag
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: order by a judge and did an insurrection and, uh, uh,
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: spent the last year cursing out his enemies. I wasn't
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: totally on board with Nikki Haley, but now that there's
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: a conflict in the Middle East, something that hasn't happened before,
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: I'm ready to switch my vote.
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: But you know what?
• 27:46
  Speaker 4: Like, They haven't made the argument that they'd be a
• 27:50
  Speaker 4: stable hand at the tiller and Trump won't be. And
• 27:53
  Speaker 4: I think this like this, the way they've been attacking
• 27:56
  Speaker 4: him on those, as you said, very just weird comments
• 27:59
  Speaker 4: sort of illustrates like the failure of the strategy for
• 28:05
  Speaker 4: these Republicans who have decided to criticize Trump even mildly,
• 28:08
  Speaker 4: which is they criticize him from the right and They
• 28:11
  Speaker 4: make it issue based.
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 28:12
  Speaker 4: He's not strong enough on Israel or he didn't he
• 28:14
  Speaker 4: didn't stand closely enough with the allies.
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: Same thing on abortion. He wasn't right wing enough.
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 28:18
  Speaker 4: As opposed to saying what people might think after hearing
• 28:21
  Speaker 4: Trump's comments is like, what a fucking weirdo you got.
• 28:23
  Speaker 4: We want that guy as president and and presiding over
• 28:27
  Speaker 4: the country when we're in this like this chaos right
• 28:29
  Speaker 4: now in the in the in the middle of these
• 28:31
  Speaker 4: conflicts like no one. is willing to just go after
• 28:34
  Speaker 4: him and be like, this guy's fucking loose cannon.
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: He's an idiot.
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: Christy a little bit. Trump also truth, like this never
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: would have happened if not for the 2020 election being stolen.
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: So it's just like the narcissism that's bleeding into every
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: facet of the way he views the world.
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: And that's compelling. That's just a message to Bibi.
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: Just like, you know, you got behind, you got behind
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: Biden and now look. Yeah. Which is, of course, absurd.
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: Petty grievance.
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: You're right. Chris Christie had the right message there.
• 29:00
  Speaker 4: It's just Chris Christie's not really gaining much traction these days.
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: Well, part of the problem is they don't, anyone with
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: that message, you know, it's like they shoot the messenger.
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: The problem, right?
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: The Republican Party is currently in a shoot the messenger mode.
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: And so they don't like, and then you get, you know,
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: Mike Pence being like, not just unwavering, but unconditional. It's like, no,
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: we should not, we don't, we should not be providing
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: unconditional support to anyone ever. That's not how being a
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: country works. This is not a child in a school
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: who deserves unconditional love. This is international diplomacy, unconditional support. No,
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: we don't provide unconditional support to anybody.
• 29:35
  Speaker 4: Well, that's why, you know, most of the Republican base has, like,
• 29:38
  Speaker 4: left that kind of Republican.
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 29:40
  Speaker 4: It's also like they don't, you know, they want... They're
• 29:42
  Speaker 4: more isolationist. They're not into the Nikki Haley, Mike Pence
• 29:46
  Speaker 4: fucking worldview of foreign policy anymore.
• 29:48
  Speaker 3: This is like, I'm just going to add one more adjective,
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: and that's going to help me win this primary. All right,
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: Mike Pence.
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: So DeSantis is also saying that the U.S.
• 29:55
  Speaker 4: Should refuse all Gazan refugees because all Palestinians are, quote, anti-Semitic.
• 30:01
  Speaker 4: Nikki Haley disagreed, saying that America should be able to
• 30:04
  Speaker 4: separate civilians from terrorists. It looks like Trump is on
• 30:07
  Speaker 4: Team DeSantis here. He said in Iowa today, or he's
• 30:10
  Speaker 4: expected to say in his Iowa speech on Monday, that
• 30:12
  Speaker 4: he will bar refugees from Gaza or Syria or Somalia
• 30:15
  Speaker 4: or Yemen or Libya, implement strong ideological screening for all immigrants,
• 30:19
  Speaker 4: and revoke student visas for anti-American and anti-Semitic foreigners at U.S.
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: Colleges and universities.
• 30:26
  Speaker 4: So basically, if you've got a visa and Trump doesn't
• 30:28
  Speaker 4: like what you say on campus, you get kicked out.
• 30:31
  Speaker 3: I think Marco Rubio came out for that proposal as well.
• 30:33
  Speaker 4: That would not surprise me either. So we're obviously probably
• 30:36
  Speaker 4: on Team Haley for this one. But how do you
• 30:38
  Speaker 4: think Trump and DeSantis' stances would play out in the
• 30:41
  Speaker 4: Republican primary?
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, listen, we should just say it's a despicable,
• 30:45
  Speaker 3: bigoted thing to say. And I think there's a direct
• 30:47
  Speaker 3: line from that rhetoric to this six-year-old kid who got
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: murdered because he's a Palestinian-American Muslim in Chicago. And, like,
• 30:53
  Speaker 3: we just can't say that enough. I do think, like,
• 30:56
  Speaker 3: I wish those comments, I wish I thought that would
• 30:57
  Speaker 3: hurt DeSantis in a Republican primary. But I think the
• 30:59
  Speaker 3: Muslim ban taught us that you can benefit in the
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: Republican Party from this kind of naked anti-Muslim bigotry. And
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: that the Republican base is so anti-immigration that they can't
• 31:12
  Speaker 3: even imagine a scenario where you would allow in people
• 31:16
  Speaker 3: whose homes are being bombed. So this has just been
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: the Republican messaging has been a race to the bottom
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: to see who can come out most fervently in support
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: of war crimes. You have Tom Cotton on TV being like,
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: let's turn Gaza into rubble. Lindsey Graham is saying this
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: is a religious war, like bomb them into the Stone Age, right?
• 31:37
  Speaker 3: And that this has real world consequences, but I think
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: they know what their base wants to hear.
• 31:42
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 31:42
  Speaker 4: AP poll from March found that only one in 10
• 31:45
  Speaker 4: Republicans said there should be more immigrants than asylum seekers. Unfortunately,
• 31:49
  Speaker 4: that number only climbed to two out of 10 when
• 31:51
  Speaker 4: you poll all voters. And of course, that was a
• 31:53
  Speaker 4: poll that had a lot of wording about the southern border.
• 31:57
  Speaker 4: And so it, you know, it wasn't all about refugees
• 31:59
  Speaker 4: from a war zone, but like, The polling on refugees
• 32:02
  Speaker 4: is sadly not as great as you'd like it to be,
• 32:05
  Speaker 4: not only with Republicans, but with most Americans.
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: And that is just fucking awful.
• 32:08
  Speaker 3: And let's be clear, race and religion impacts those numbers.
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: Because if you ask them about Ukrainian refugees, they'll probably
• 32:14
  Speaker 3: have a very different response in a lot of cases.
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: Yep, that's right.
• 32:16
  Speaker 4: With DeSantis slipping to third in most polls, Nikki Haley's
• 32:19
  Speaker 4: people see this crisis as a chance to leverage her
• 32:21
  Speaker 4: foreign policy experience and become Trump's main opponent.
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: What do you guys think? Wishful thinking?
• 32:28
  Speaker 3: You know, yeah.
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: Like, okay, you'll be Trump's main opponent. You'll lose to
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: him the hardest, I suppose.
• 32:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know.
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: I mean, we talked about this.
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: Like, again, like all these Republicans turning on the news
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: and seeing like what their fucking angle is is so
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: disgusting and has been for weeks. And like, they all
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: seem so false and so fake and so like sort
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: of small that I don't think it matters.
• 32:54
  Speaker 3: If I were her, I would use this as an
• 32:56
  Speaker 3: opportunity to hammer Vivek Ramaswamy, for example, and she'd be like, hey, man,
• 33:00
  Speaker 3: you're 38. You have no idea what you're talking about.
• 33:02
  Speaker 3: You're just a fast talking, like an annoying dork who just,
• 33:06
  Speaker 3: you know, you're not ready for this job. I think
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: she can try to do this with DeSantis as well
• 33:11
  Speaker 3: and try to go after his foreign policy experience. But
• 33:13
  Speaker 3: he's going to say, I served in the Navy. I
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: deployed to Iraq. I worked at Guantanamo Bay. Like I
• 33:19
  Speaker 3: know firsthand what it's like to fight terrorists. I think
• 33:21
  Speaker 3: he'll have a compelling rejoinder.
• 33:22
  Speaker 4: He'll be like, yeah, you were measuring drapes. You were
• 33:26
  Speaker 4: buying drapes at the U.N., Well, that was.
• 33:28
  Speaker 3: The Tim Scott response.
• 33:29
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 33:29
  Speaker 3: Literally about drapes.
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 33:31
  Speaker 3: That was a weird take.
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: But yeah, she's a.
• 33:33
  Speaker 3: I mean, listen, you know, maybe it can consolidate the
• 33:37
  Speaker 3: sort of number two spot and get some momentum, but,
• 33:39
  Speaker 3: you know, no one's going after Trump's 50% in the.
• 33:42
  Speaker 4: Yeah, no, like, I think it's really possible that Nikki
• 33:45
  Speaker 4: Haley is the last one standing at this point, right?
• 33:48
  Speaker 4: But as you said, Lovett, like, her problem since the
• 33:50
  Speaker 4: beginning is that she and her team think that she's
• 33:54
  Speaker 4: running for president with the Republican... electorate that hasn't existed
• 33:58
  Speaker 4: for 15 years. It's just not, they don't that like the,
• 34:02
  Speaker 4: the Nikki Haley, Mitt Romney, whatever view of both foreign policy. And,
• 34:08
  Speaker 4: you know, you hear every debate and she saw the
• 34:10
  Speaker 4: first answer she always gives is she's obsessed with the
• 34:12
  Speaker 4: debt and spending. And it's like, that is just a
• 34:15
  Speaker 4: different Republican party that does not exist anymore. And, and
• 34:18
  Speaker 4: these are the same Republicans who think like Glenn Youngkin
• 34:21
  Speaker 4: is going to ride to the rescue too, right? We're
• 34:23
  Speaker 4: going to, Glenn Youngkin is going to save the day.
• 34:24
  Speaker 4: This Republican electorate does not want your Glenn Youngkins and
• 34:27
  Speaker 4: your Nikki Haley's. They want Donald Trump and people who
• 34:31
  Speaker 4: are like Donald Trump.
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: Hey, remind me, when Nikki Haley was having all of
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: this incredible foreign policy experience and garnering all these international successes,
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: I can never remember who was president. Who was president
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: also having the identical record of success that she would claim?
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, that probably helps her more than anything.
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: But if her argument is that her foreign policy credentials
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: make her suitable to be president, Well, surely it would
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: make Donald Trump just as suitable because he is the
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: person that put her in place to get those achievements
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: done on his behalf. But she doesn't say that because
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: she was in lockstep with him and now kind of
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: tiptoes around her critique.
• 35:08
  Speaker 3: You can't quote Reagan and get your way to the
• 35:10
  Speaker 3: White House anymore. It doesn't work, guys.
• 35:12
  Speaker 4: Third quarter fundraising totals are out. Joe Biden has about
• 35:14
  Speaker 4: $ 32 million on hand.
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: Trump has $ 37. 5 million. Tim Scott has $ 13 million. DeSantis
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: has $ 12. 3 million.
• 35:21
  Speaker 4: Nikki Haley has $ 11. 5 million, and RFK Jr. has $ 6 million.
• 35:26
  Speaker 4: No one else really worth talking about. Anything stand out
• 35:28
  Speaker 4: to you guys from these fundraising reports?
• 35:30
  Speaker 3: That RFK number is troubling.
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I didn't like it.
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: I saw it.
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: That is not great. $ 6 million. I mean, it's not a...
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: It's too much. Also, if there's a super PAC behind them,
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: that's not... Yeah, I mean, listen, that worries me even more.
• 35:42
  Speaker 3: Everyone not named Trump and Biden or Biden is struggling
• 35:44
  Speaker 3: to raise money. DeSantis has a ton of cash in
• 35:46
  Speaker 3: his super PAC, so that's in the background. Pence is dead.
• 35:50
  Speaker 3: He's got $ 1. 2 million on hand.
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's why I didn't mention him.
• 35:53
  Speaker 3: The most amazing thing I saw today was Tim Scott's
• 35:55
  Speaker 3: super PAC is canceling close to $ 40 million in TV
• 35:59
  Speaker 3: ad reservations. It can't be good when your own super
• 36:02
  Speaker 3: PAC gives up on you. That's got to be tough.
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: And Tim Scott's cash on hand looks pretty good there.
• 36:08
  Speaker 3: But he started with $ 21 million that he transferred over
• 36:11
  Speaker 3: from his Senate account. So he's just burning cash.
• 36:14
  Speaker 4: Not only did the super PAC just cancel them, like
• 36:16
  Speaker 4: they didn't do it quietly. They have, there's a spokesman
• 36:18
  Speaker 4: saying like, we don't want to waste money on his
• 36:20
  Speaker 4: candidacy anymore.
• 36:22
  Speaker 3: Some big donor was like, hey, Larry.
• 36:23
  Speaker 4: Ellison's like, I'm done spending money on Tim Scott. That
• 36:26
  Speaker 4: ship has sailed.
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: Find me another virgin to waste this money on. Bring
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: me a virgin.
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: Some other interesting stuff that I'm stealing directly from Politico.
• 36:35
  Speaker 3: Biden was ramping up his spending. He went from four
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: to 38 staffers. Trump is raising a lot, but he's
• 36:40
  Speaker 3: burning a lot of money on fundraising. So I guess
• 36:42
  Speaker 3: nearly 40% of his joint fundraising committee's money goes towards
• 36:47
  Speaker 3: its own expenditures. So that's not a great burn rate.
• 36:50
  Speaker 3: And then apparently DeSantis has quit private jets. So good
• 36:55
  Speaker 3: for him for shaking his addiction.
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: That's it. Now he's on the road to the White House.
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: I hope someone makes him take his shoes off at
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: the airport. Let's get to the bottom of that. What's
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: going on inside of those boots?
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: That's a good point.
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: What is happening inside of the DeSantis boots?
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: What is that?
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: Because it's not just a heel. It's a contraption in there.
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: That's a lot of height.
• 37:10
  Speaker 3: Like spring load.
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: It's a lot of height.
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: You're going to.
• 37:14
  Speaker 4: You're going to fuel the fire of the people who
• 37:16
  Speaker 4: are going to dress up as DeSantis in the boots
• 37:18
  Speaker 4: for Halloween.
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: Listen, if you're out there and your plan was to
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: be sexy around DeSantis, who be it me to tell
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: you that that's a bad idea? A couple of.
• 37:28
  Speaker 4: Just going to be running around Adams Morgan, all these
• 37:30
  Speaker 4: people in the DeSantis boots.
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: A couple of just thigh-high white pumps with that little
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: DeSantis hat. And that voice.
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: And that voice. In the vest. Yeah, no. Booting on.
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: That works, baby. Okay. Okay.
• 37:45
  Speaker 3: We'll workshop it.
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: We'll leave this topic. Moving on.
• 37:49
  Speaker 4: We should also mention that Judge Chicken has now issued
• 37:52
  Speaker 4: a partial gag order on Trump that prevents him from
• 37:55
  Speaker 4: attacking witnesses, prosecutors, and court staff.
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: But these balls don't work. I'm sorry. These gags don't
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: work if it's not tightened in the back. I fucked
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: up the joke.
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: The gag order includes speeches, statements, truths, retruths.
• 38:11
  Speaker 4: The judge also said she'll consider sanctions if Trump violates
• 38:13
  Speaker 4: the order, but hasn't yet specified what those would be.
• 38:16
  Speaker 4: She also reiterated that the trial will begin on March
• 38:19
  Speaker 4: 4th and made it clear that she will not be
• 38:21
  Speaker 4: changing the date, rejecting any appeals from Trump's lawyers to
• 38:25
  Speaker 4: change the date. Trump clearly took this message to heart.
• 38:28
  Speaker 4: Here he is in Iowa Monday after the ruling.
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: But, no, they put a gag order on me, and
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: I'm not supposed to be talking about things that bad
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: people do.
• 38:39
  Speaker 4: And so.
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: will be appealing very quickly. Judge gave a gag order.
• 38:43
  Speaker 5: Judge doesn't like me too much.
• 38:46
  Speaker 6: Her whole life is not liking me.
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: Lesson learned. Lesson learned, guys.
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: I'm telling you, you've got to tighten that thing in
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: the back. You can't have a partial gag order on
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: this fucking guy. You can't partially damn a river.
• 38:59
  Speaker 4: Have the chances that he gets locked up before the
• 39:01
  Speaker 4: trial increased at all? She said that apparently she's going
• 39:06
  Speaker 4: to have a written ruling that comes out that maybe
• 39:08
  Speaker 4: details exactly what the sanctions could be. She just left
• 39:11
  Speaker 4: it at sanctions during the trial. But, like, I don't know.
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: Look, my position on this remains unchanged. Trump is going
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: to do everything in his power to dare this judge
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: to put him behind bars in contempt.
• 39:25
  Speaker 4: Like there's just, he said in that same event too,
• 39:28
  Speaker 4: I think he later said something like, if I have
• 39:30
  Speaker 4: to go to jail to save American democracy, I'll go
• 39:33
  Speaker 4: to jail.
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: I don't know how that works, but yeah.
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: And like, these are like, basically we have these sort
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: of like two, you know, two very, very like, but
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: neither scenario seems particularly possible. One being that a judge
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: literally just like throws an American president in jail for
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: not shutting the fuck up for a while. Just to
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: kind of teach him a lesson. That seems hard to imagine.
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: But also, it's hard to imagine how you can conduct
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: a trial when this guy isn't going to respect, you know,
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: any rules placed on him because he believes no one
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: is actually going to throw with putting him in a cell, though.
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: It sounds like maybe he's kind of now wrapped his
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: head around. Like, maybe this will be kind of cool.
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: I'll be like Judith Miller, I guess.
• 40:08
  Speaker 3: Remember judith yeah hero yeah no i know remember.
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: Remember the aspens turned together remember yes yes remember that
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: letter maybe the uh that's where the true fans the.
• 40:18
  Speaker 3: J6 choir could release another track oh yeah maybe they
• 40:21
  Speaker 3: could record one in jail yeah with them maybe they'd
• 40:23
  Speaker 3: all be.
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: There together nelson morondella okay uh.
• 40:31
  Speaker 4: Is that something yeah it's it's definitely something yeah it's
• 40:34
  Speaker 4: definitely something I don't know. I think she could levy
• 40:36
  Speaker 4: other kinds of sanctions on him. Maybe she could take
• 40:38
  Speaker 4: away the keys to his social account. Maybe she could
• 40:40
  Speaker 4: just fine him.
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: Fining him every day is pretty good.
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that could happen, too.
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: Got a lot of arrows in that quiver.
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: I'm going to have to use them.
• 40:49
  Speaker 4: I think the biggest news out of that whole thing
• 40:50
  Speaker 4: is that she's not moving March 4th. Because a lot
• 40:53
  Speaker 4: of people, we've now become accustomed to like, oh, that's
• 40:55
  Speaker 4: the day, but it could get pushed.
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 40:58
  Speaker 4: She seems, she is, I mean, you could see it
• 41:00
  Speaker 4: slipping like a week or two for whatever reason, but
• 41:02
  Speaker 4: she is keeping it in March.
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she's doing it. We're going to have a trial
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: in March.
• 41:06
  Speaker 3: As soon as she locks up this primary.
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, she really wants him to lose.
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: Jesus, fuck it.
• 41:12
  Speaker 3: What?
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: She's a good person.
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: She's a good judge.
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: She's a good judge who cares about this country and
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: its future.
• 41:17
  Speaker 4: It was a partial gag order, all right? She said
• 41:21
  Speaker 4: he could continue to criticize the Biden administration.
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: It's unassailable. He could continue to criticize Washington, D.C., which
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: he's been doing. Yeah. Just can't make the threats to
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: witnesses or the court staff.
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, she's trying to really fuck him. She can't go
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: too far. She has to seem impartial.
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: Unbelievable.
• 41:37
  Speaker 4: So, believe it or not, the Republican Party's congressional wing
• 41:40
  Speaker 4: is still somehow an even bigger shitshow right now. The
• 41:43
  Speaker 4: House will allegedly hold a floor vote for Speaker at
• 41:45
  Speaker 4: noon on Tuesday. Jim Jordan wants to use the public
• 41:48
  Speaker 4: vote to pressure the dozens of Republicans who are opposed
• 41:51
  Speaker 4: to his bid, though he's starting to get support from
• 41:54
  Speaker 4: a few key holdouts. The rest say they're going to
• 41:57
  Speaker 4: nominate someone else to run against him for this vote. Meanwhile,
• 42:01
  Speaker 4: Hakeem Jeffries said over the weekend that there have been
• 42:03
  Speaker 4: informal talks with some Republicans about what it would take
• 42:05
  Speaker 4: for Democrats to support one of their speaker candidates, including
• 42:08
  Speaker 4: the possibility that they give more power to acting Speaker
• 42:12
  Speaker 4: Patrick McHenry. So, guys, Speaker Jordan seems like it could
• 42:16
  Speaker 4: be a real possibility here. What are we doing about this?
• 42:20
  Speaker 4: Anything anything Democrats can do to stop this from happening?
• 42:22
  Speaker 4: What are some of the dangers of a of a
• 42:23
  Speaker 4: Jordan run house that are different than a McCarthy run house?
• 42:26
  Speaker 3: He's a scary guy. I mean, when I interviewed Adam
• 42:29
  Speaker 3: Kinzinger the other, when was that? Six months ago?
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: Last week? I don't remember.
• 42:33
  Speaker 3: Former Republican member of Congress from Illinois. He talked about,
• 42:37
  Speaker 3: you know, Jordan is a right-wing Christian nationalist. He is
• 42:41
  Speaker 3: an ideologue. He does not care about compromise or governing
• 42:46
  Speaker 3: or the debt ceiling. He thinks that liberals are evil.
• 42:50
  Speaker 3: Full stop. And so, like, how do you work with
• 42:53
  Speaker 3: a guy like that? How do you negotiate? in a
• 42:55
  Speaker 3: divided Congress. How do you get something like Ukraine funding
• 42:59
  Speaker 3: to pass when, you know, he knows.
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: His caucus is dead city.
• 43:02
  Speaker 3: Like he's someone who will, he's just, he's the worst
• 43:05
  Speaker 3: case in some ways.
• 43:07
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: I look at McCarthy voted with the insurrectionists, uh, because
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: he had no principles. What's frightening is Jim Jordan voted
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: with the insurrectionists cause he seems on some level to
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: really believe it. Yeah. Uh, that is chilling.
• 43:20
  Speaker 4: I also look, look, we look instrumental in the plot
• 43:22
  Speaker 4: to overturn the election. Wasn't just going along with it
• 43:24
  Speaker 4: was on calls with the white house asked for pardon
• 43:28
  Speaker 4: because he thought maybe he committed some election crimes. So yeah,
• 43:32
  Speaker 4: Jim Jordan was there.
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: And does that, does that mean that he believes every
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: part of the election fraud myth? No, but it means
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: that he's so there is some combination of believing in
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: the conspiracy theories and also believing Democrats are so dangerous. So,
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: so bad for the country that there's no price worth paying,
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: there's no rule worth protecting if it means you can
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: keep a Republican in office. Like we've just been through
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: a few different cycles, right? Like we went through a
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: debt ceiling, we went through a government shutdown and a threat.
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: And in both those cases, Kevin McCartney, because he's not
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: a person who had very much principle, ultimately was able
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: to bring a vote to the floor so a bipartisan
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: group in the House could send something to the Senate
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: so that we didn't default on our debt and so
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: that government didn't close. What happens the next time? Jim
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: Jordan is not that person. So what does a deal
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: look like? And does it mean that the only hope
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: for having that kind of a bipartisan vote in the
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: House will require some kind of discharge position or some
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: kind of going around the speaker in a way that
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: didn't have to happen under Kevin McCarthy because he ultimately
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: caved into the deal?
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: I don't know. You can't be trusted to defend the Constitution. Now,
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: that wasn't us.
• 44:51
  Speaker 4: That's Speaker John Boehner. Squishy Lib John Boehner called him
• 44:56
  Speaker 4: a legislative terrorist. Liz Cheney said he couldn't be trusted
• 44:58
  Speaker 4: to defend the Constitution. Cassidy Hutchinson said the same thing
• 45:01
  Speaker 4: to me. She was a close Trump aide and worked
• 45:03
  Speaker 4: with Jim.
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: Jordan a lot.
• 45:05
  Speaker 4: So Republicans think these things about Jim Jordan. Conservative Republicans,
• 45:09
  Speaker 4: not moderate Republicans. And to your point, Lovett, that he
• 45:12
  Speaker 4: thinks it's more important to hold the office than to
• 45:15
  Speaker 4: ever work with Democrats. That's going to also be the
• 45:17
  Speaker 4: position if Republican so-called moderates don't stand up to stop
• 45:22
  Speaker 4: him from becoming speaker. That is the position of every
• 45:24
  Speaker 4: House Republican that they thought it would be better to
• 45:28
  Speaker 4: have Jim Jordan as speaker. The legislative terrorist, Jim Jordan,
• 45:33
  Speaker 4: he's a better speaker than doing some kind of a
• 45:35
  Speaker 4: deal with Democrats where you'd still have a Republican speaker,
• 45:39
  Speaker 4: but you just maybe guarantee some votes on government funding, Ukraine, Israel,
• 45:44
  Speaker 4: stuff like that.
• 45:46
  Speaker 9: Yeah.
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: So As of this recording over the course of just
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: the last 24 hours, we've gone from this huge block
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: of not moderates, but people who aren't as right wing
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: as sort of the loud zealots going from saying they
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: wouldn't support Jim Jordan to one by one getting off
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: the phone with him and having these conversations and realizing
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: that they've come to discover that they can support him. Now,
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: what we don't know is there are still dozens of
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: people who haven't said one way or the other. And
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: we don't know if just because these sort of big
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: name people who I think do actually, whose decision to
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: come out publicly saying they're for Jim Jordan tells you
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: that like opposition is really weakening. We don't know what
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: these other people think because it is, again, the same
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: situation you can only lose for.
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: And we don't know.
• 46:28
  Speaker 3: You got Sean Hannity's producer emailing moderates being like, are
• 46:31
  Speaker 3: you going to vote for Jim Jordan? Or if you
• 46:33
  Speaker 3: say no, I guess you support Hamas. That is like
• 46:36
  Speaker 3: literally the tenor of his email. He's got like the
• 46:38
  Speaker 3: right-wing media infrastructure threatening moderates on his behalf to try
• 46:41
  Speaker 3: to get him the job.
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: You know what's funny about that, Tommy?
• 46:43
  Speaker 4: I saw that story over the weekend, and then there
• 46:45
  Speaker 4: was a bunch of Republicans, mostly on background, if not
• 46:49
  Speaker 4: all on background, being like, that's the kind of shit
• 46:51
  Speaker 4: that will backfire for Jim Jordan, is having Hannity do that.
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: I'm like, will it? Will it backfire?
• 46:56
  Speaker 4: Because it seems like since that letter, there's a bunch
• 46:59
  Speaker 4: of so-called never-Jordan Republicans who've now said that they support him,
• 47:04
  Speaker 4: like Representative Ann Wagner, who after she's like a top
• 47:07
  Speaker 4: Scalise deputy. And she was like, I was so offended
• 47:10
  Speaker 4: by Jim Jordan saying in the, in the caucus meeting,
• 47:12
  Speaker 4: America wants me. And we're going to, and she's like,
• 47:14
  Speaker 4: I will, I'm a hell no on Jim Jordan, never
• 47:16
  Speaker 4: Jim Jordan. And now today she's like, okay, I'm, I'm
• 47:19
  Speaker 4: back in Jordan. So like, count me as skeptical that
• 47:22
  Speaker 4: the last remaining holdouts are going to stand their ground.
• 47:26
  Speaker 4: I could see it on the first ballot, right? There's
• 47:27
  Speaker 4: going to be one ballot. You could see five or
• 47:29
  Speaker 4: six Republicans saying I'm, I'm standing against him, Jordan. And
• 47:32
  Speaker 4: then after they get a couple of rounds, you can
• 47:34
  Speaker 4: see them being like, well, I don't like Jim Jordan,
• 47:36
  Speaker 4: but what am I going to do? Keep the government
• 47:38
  Speaker 4: closed and keep the house closed and we're not going
• 47:39
  Speaker 4: to stand with you, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: I could see that. Yeah.
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: Or, yeah. Look, you know, never a safe place to be,
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: to be, you know, hoping that squishy on background Republican
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: types are going to defend the Republic. Hasn't worked for
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: us yet. I do also wonder, like, what are these conversations? Like,
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: what are the promises that Jim Jordan is making to
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: in these conversations with people like Mike Rogers and others, the.
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: Kind of ones.
• 48:04
  Speaker 4: Aaron has promised that Ukraine funding will come to a vote,
• 48:07
  Speaker 4: and then some kind of government funding.
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: Bill will be... That's sort of the reporting. We don't know.
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: That's the reporting, and who knows?
• 48:14
  Speaker 3: He strikes me as the kind of guy, Jim Jordan,
• 48:15
  Speaker 3: who thinks a whip operation includes physically beating.
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: Members of Congress.
• 48:20
  Speaker 3: He's a scary wrestling coach who allegedly didn't take action
• 48:26
  Speaker 3: to support some of his players. who were sexually molested
• 48:30
  Speaker 3: by a doctor at Ohio State University. He's like a
• 48:32
  Speaker 3: terrible person in every respect.
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the other thing too, like sort of the
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: collective decision by, like basically there's been a ton of
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: reporting that people went, like unequivocally went, people claiming they
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: went to Jim Jordan and said, this is going on.
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: and that he knew about it. And then when Jim
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: Jordan was asked about it, it seems like he just lied.
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: They testified about it.
• 48:54
  Speaker 3: And Congressman Nancy Mace pretended it didn't happen when she
• 48:57
  Speaker 3: was asked about it on TV. She's like, oh, I'm
• 48:58
  Speaker 3: not familiar with that. They've chosen that it doesn't matter.
• 49:02
  Speaker 3: But of course, if he does become.
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: Speaker, that will bring that story to the fore, and
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: there will be a big round of coverage about it.
• 49:11
  Speaker 3: They will, of course, decide not to care, but it
• 49:13
  Speaker 3: is despicable.
• 49:15
  Speaker 4: I do wonder if he does become Speaker, the worst
• 49:17
  Speaker 4: comes to pass here, if he will get more leeway
• 49:20
  Speaker 4: from the Matt Gaetz's and the Freedom Caucus people on
• 49:24
  Speaker 4: issues because all of these people care about identity over issues,
• 49:28
  Speaker 4: these Republicans, right? They just care about the fucking media
• 49:30
  Speaker 4: circus and we have now a MAGA speaker and blah, blah, blah.
• 49:33
  Speaker 4: So maybe they give him a little more leeway in
• 49:35
  Speaker 4: the time being. But someday down the road, years from now,
• 49:37
  Speaker 4: when we're still doing this podcast, we'll be like, Jim Jordan,
• 49:40
  Speaker 4: Republican establishment cuck, got booted today because he wasn't MAGA
• 49:44
  Speaker 4: enough for, yeah.
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: Because a fucking racist actual hyena mounted a successful challenge.
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: The racist sentient hyena did bite the leg of his
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: chief whip and centrist heroine, Marjorie J.
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: LeGreene.
• 50:01
  Speaker 4: All right, well, we're going to figure out if we're
• 50:02
  Speaker 4: going to see if Democrats have a plan to do
• 50:04
  Speaker 4: something about this.
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: You've already talked to him today.
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: Right. Well, we'll see. I'm not going to I'm not
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: going to give it away. People got to listen to
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: the interview.
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: John, can we make a deal with these fucking people?
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: Hakeem Jeffries, when we come back.
• 50:27
  Speaker 4: The House hasn't had a speaker in two weeks, but
• 50:29
  Speaker 4: is about to hold a vote on whether to hand
• 50:31
  Speaker 4: over the gavel to Jim Jordan. Joining us to talk
• 50:34
  Speaker 4: about how the Democrats plan to deal with this nonsense,
• 50:36
  Speaker 4: House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries.
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: Leader Jeffries, welcome back to the pod.
• 50:41
  Speaker 7: Great to be back with you.
• 50:42
  Speaker 4: So we are recording this late Monday. I know you've
• 50:44
  Speaker 4: been having some informal conversations with House Republicans who don't
• 50:49
  Speaker 4: want Jim Jordan to become speaker. Have you gotten any
• 50:52
  Speaker 4: indication from those conversations that at least five or so
• 50:55
  Speaker 4: of those Republicans will stand firm in their opposition to
• 50:58
  Speaker 4: Jordan when it comes time to vote?
• 51:00
  Speaker 7: That really is the question of the hour because it
• 51:04
  Speaker 7: is clear that more than 50 Republicans, as of the
• 51:09
  Speaker 7: end of last week, had no interest in elevating an
• 51:12
  Speaker 7: extremist election denier like Jim Jordan to be the next
• 51:17
  Speaker 7: Speaker of the House of Representatives. However, that was on
• 51:20
  Speaker 7: a secret ballot. And what needs to occur is, over
• 51:24
  Speaker 7: the next day or so, if a vote is brought
• 51:27
  Speaker 7: before the floor of the House of Representatives, is that
• 51:31
  Speaker 7: a handful of those individuals are going to have to
• 51:34
  Speaker 7: demonstrate public courage, similar to what Liz Cheney and Adam
• 51:39
  Speaker 7: Kinzinger did in the last Congress. And quite honestly, that
• 51:45
  Speaker 7: remains to be seen, whether there's a willingness to face
• 51:49
  Speaker 7: down publicly the extreme right-wing elements of the House Republican
• 51:55
  Speaker 7: conference in order to forge a bipartisan path forward.
• 52:02
  Speaker 4: If enough House Republicans do show that kind of courage
• 52:07
  Speaker 4: and come to you guys and say that they're willing
• 52:09
  Speaker 4: to play ball and entertain a bipartisan path forward, what
• 52:14
  Speaker 4: type of power-sharing deal would you be willing to consider?
• 52:19
  Speaker 7: Our view is that Any arrangement should be anchored in
• 52:23
  Speaker 7: the fundamental principle that when there are bills that have
• 52:27
  Speaker 7: substantial Democratic support and substantial Republican support, they should be
• 52:33
  Speaker 7: brought to the floor for an up or down vote,
• 52:38
  Speaker 7: as opposed to the current structure of the House, where
• 52:42
  Speaker 7: a handful of extremist members who are either part of
• 52:46
  Speaker 7: the Rules Committee or or make decisions to vote down
• 52:50
  Speaker 7: rules on the House floor have the ability to dictate
• 52:54
  Speaker 7: the agenda for the American people. That will require a
• 52:58
  Speaker 7: change in the rule structure that presently exists, but it's
• 53:03
  Speaker 7: designed to facilitate bipartisanship. For instance, if there are bipartisan
• 53:08
  Speaker 7: bills that emerge from the United States Senate that have
• 53:13
  Speaker 7: support from Democrats and Republicans, then those bills should automatically
• 53:17
  Speaker 7: receive up or down votes. We believe in an enlightening
• 53:22
  Speaker 7: or enlightened governmental structure, the type of which we are
• 53:26
  Speaker 7: contemplating in terms of this bipartisan path forward.
• 53:29
  Speaker 4: And that's something that could be written into the rules
• 53:31
  Speaker 4: so that you wouldn't have to just take their word
• 53:33
  Speaker 4: for it?
• 53:34
  Speaker 7: That is correct, because there absolutely are accountability concerns. One
• 53:38
  Speaker 7: of the challenges with the prior speaker is that there
• 53:40
  Speaker 7: were major trust issues within the House Democratic Caucus based
• 53:45
  Speaker 7: on a variety of things, including the launching of an
• 53:47
  Speaker 7: illegitimate impeachment inquiry against President Joe Biden. There's absolutely no
• 53:52
  Speaker 7: evidence that President Biden engaged in wrongdoing. And that was
• 53:56
  Speaker 7: just part of a continuing show of bending the knee
• 54:01
  Speaker 7: to Trumpism and hard right extremism, as well as the
• 54:05
  Speaker 7: fact that President Biden negotiated an agreement to avoid a
• 54:11
  Speaker 7: catastrophic default on America's debt for the first time in
• 54:15
  Speaker 7: our history that would have crashed the economy and triggered
• 54:18
  Speaker 7: a job killing recession, the majority of Republicans in the
• 54:23
  Speaker 7: House agreed to that legislative resolution and then less than
• 54:28
  Speaker 7: a week later broke their own agreement under the prior speaker.
• 54:34
  Speaker 7: And so consistent with your question, there needs to be
• 54:38
  Speaker 7: an ability to change the rules so that there's some
• 54:43
  Speaker 7: accountability for any agreements that are reached.
• 54:47
  Speaker 4: So when Jordan was running for speaker and talking to
• 54:51
  Speaker 4: the House Republican caucus, he reportedly promised to stop U.S.
• 54:55
  Speaker 4: support for Ukraine and shut down the government unless Democrats
• 54:59
  Speaker 4: agree to massive budget cuts, new border restrictions. If he
• 55:02
  Speaker 4: becomes speaker, do you see any room for compromise on
• 55:05
  Speaker 4: those demands? Or do you think we'd just be headed
• 55:08
  Speaker 4: for a government shutdown?
• 55:10
  Speaker 7: Well, shutdowns are in the DNA of House Republicans, and
• 55:14
  Speaker 7: that's been the case going all the way back to
• 55:16
  Speaker 7: the Gingrich years. The Republicans shut the government twice when
• 55:20
  Speaker 7: Bill Clinton was president. At that point in time, they
• 55:23
  Speaker 7: were trying to eradicate Medicare and Medicaid as we know it.
• 55:28
  Speaker 7: House Republicans shut the government down when John Boehner was speaker,
• 55:32
  Speaker 7: even though he was reluctant to do it.
• 55:35
  Speaker 5: But the Tea.
• 55:35
  Speaker 7: Party effort forced the government shut down for 14 days
• 55:40
  Speaker 7: as part of an effort to convince President Obama to
• 55:45
  Speaker 7: repeal the Affordable Care Act, his signature legislative accomplishment, and
• 55:50
  Speaker 7: throw millions of Americans off the healthcare rolls. In 2018
• 55:57
  Speaker 7: and 2019, the longest government shutdown in American history under
• 56:02
  Speaker 7: then President Donald Trump and Republicans initiated it when they
• 56:06
  Speaker 7: controlled the House and the Senate That was because they
• 56:09
  Speaker 7: wanted to try to extract billions of taxpayer dollars for
• 56:13
  Speaker 7: an ineffective medieval border wall.
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: In all of those.
• 56:16
  Speaker 7: Instances, House Democrats, Senate Democrats, and Democratic presidents held the line.
• 56:23
  Speaker 7: We've never paid these extreme ransom notes in the context
• 56:28
  Speaker 7: of a government shutdown, and I believe we never will.
• 56:32
  Speaker 4: You mentioned Liz Cheney. She recently said that if Jordan
• 56:36
  Speaker 4: becomes Speaker... There's no way to argue that Republicans can
• 56:39
  Speaker 4: be counted on to defend the Constitution. How concerned are
• 56:43
  Speaker 4: you about a Speaker Jordan messing with the certification of
• 56:46
  Speaker 4: the 2024 election?
• 56:48
  Speaker 7: There are a whole host of challenges with respect to
• 56:51
  Speaker 7: the prospect of a Speaker Jim Jordan. Jim Jordan is
• 56:55
  Speaker 7: an election denier. Jim Jordan voted to overturn the results
• 56:59
  Speaker 7: of the 2020 presidential election. Jim Jordan has continued to
• 57:04
  Speaker 7: perpetrate the big lie. that the election was stolen and
• 57:07
  Speaker 7: that Donald Trump should be the president of the United
• 57:10
  Speaker 7: States of America. Jim Jordan also wants to unleash weapons
• 57:15
  Speaker 7: of war in our communities that aren't used to hunt deer,
• 57:19
  Speaker 7: they're used to hunt human beings. Jim Jordan doesn't believe
• 57:23
  Speaker 7: in a woman's freedom to make her own reproductive healthcare decisions. Instead,
• 57:27
  Speaker 7: he wants to criminalize abortion care and impose a nationwide ban.
• 57:32
  Speaker 7: Jim Jordan is the poster child for MAGA Republican extremism.
• 57:41
  Speaker 7: Paging all traditional Republicans and so-called moderates, it's time to
• 57:48
  Speaker 7: get off the sidelines and get in the game before
• 57:52
  Speaker 7: it's too late, because your party is on a path
• 57:55
  Speaker 7: to burn down the House of Representatives. And we consistently
• 57:59
  Speaker 7: have said we are willing to find a bipartisan path
• 58:03
  Speaker 7: forward and enter into a unity governing coalition. We just
• 58:09
  Speaker 7: need them to reject the extremism and join us in
• 58:13
  Speaker 7: finding a reasonable accommodation so that the House can reopen
• 58:18
  Speaker 7: and do the business of the American people.
• 58:21
  Speaker 4: One Democratic operative told Axios that a Speaker Jordan could
• 58:24
  Speaker 4: lead Democrats. to pick up 30 House seats in 2024.
• 58:28
  Speaker 4: I am not dumb enough to ask you if you
• 58:29
  Speaker 4: agree with that prediction. But do you think that Speaker
• 58:32
  Speaker 4: Jordan should become an issue in some of these competitive
• 58:35
  Speaker 4: frontline races, especially for the Republicans who are running in
• 58:38
  Speaker 4: districts that Joe Biden won?
• 58:39
  Speaker 7: It seems to me that Republicans will no longer be
• 58:45
  Speaker 7: able to claim that there's any semblance of moderation left
• 58:51
  Speaker 7: in the House Republican conference. If they elevate Jim Jordan. Remember,
• 58:56
  Speaker 7: they took down Steve Scalise in order to clear the
• 59:00
  Speaker 7: path for Jim Jordan, even though Steve Scalise received a
• 59:04
  Speaker 7: majority of the votes in their internal election. Because at
• 59:09
  Speaker 7: the end of the day, there are many within the
• 59:11
  Speaker 7: House Republican Conference who want to basically show the American
• 59:14
  Speaker 7: people who they actually are. And that's acolytes of extreme
• 59:21
  Speaker 7: right-wing ideological Trumpism, which is bad for the American people.
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: One last question before I let you go.
• 59:31
  Speaker 4: Five House Democrats in your caucus just introduced a resolution
• 59:34
  Speaker 4: calling for an immediate de-escalation and ceasefire in Israel and Palestine.
• 59:39
  Speaker 4: More than 2,800 people in Gaza have already been killed,
• 59:42
  Speaker 4: with nearly 10,000 wounded. Why shouldn't Israel agree to a ceasefire,
• 59:48
  Speaker 4: at least until civilians in Gaza, including some Americans and
• 59:52
  Speaker 4: Israeli hostages, are either safe or evacuated before Israel continues
• 59:57
  Speaker 4: its operation in to take out Hamas?
• 59:59
  Speaker 7: Well, Israel was struck in the most horrific way possible.
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 7: More than a thousand people victimized by brutal terrorist acts
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 7: of Hamas, which was targeted at civilians in the southern
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 7: part of the country. And Israel has an understandable right
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 7: and indeed a responsibility to defend itself and to eliminate Hamas.
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 7: The elimination of Hamas is important for the state of
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 7: Israel because But it also is important for the United
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 7: States and our own national security interests in the region.
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 7: It's important for the free world. And it's important for
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 7: the Palestinian people who have been subjected to Hamas's rule,
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 7: which is not focused on the best interests of Palestinian civilians.
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 7: And that has not been the case for the last
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 7: 16 years or so since they came to power around 2006.
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 7: It's all been about Hamas's twisted ideology of wiping Israel
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 7: off the face of the earth. Now, as President Biden
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 7: has said, it's going to be important for Israel to
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 7: follow the international rules of war and conflict. And I
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 7: know the administration is working with some of the other
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 7: Arab players in the region, particularly Egypt and Jordan, to
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 7: try to create some humanitarian space perhaps before there was
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 7: a ground invasion that is intensified. But those are discussions
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 7: that President Biden, as I understand it, will continue to
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 7: lead to try to figure out the path forward. But
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 7: there is no doubt that Hamas has to be eliminated.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 7: If there was doubt about that in advance of October 7th,
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 7: there should be no doubt about it right now.
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 4: No doubt at all that Hamas should be eliminated and
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 4: that Israel has every right to defend itself and do that. Obviously,
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 4: an aid package will come before the house at some point.
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 4: Do you have concern that the aid will not just
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 4: be that it's obviously important to support Israel with aid?
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 4: You're also going to be looking for aid to support refugees,
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 4: people in Gaza who are civilians who have now been
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 4: displaced from their homes. There's half a million people that
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 4: have left the north to go to the south. They're
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 4: having trouble crossing into Egypt. I know that the administration
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 4: is currently working on getting safe passages and food and
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 4: other support for these refugees. But is that something that
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 4: you're concerned about as you think about funding packages going forward?
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 7: There are only two ways in or two ways out
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 7: of the Gaza Strip. One is into and out of Israel.
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 7: And that border, which was breached in a horrific way,
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 7: is obviously closed. And then there's the Rafah Crossing between
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 7: the Gaza Strip and Egypt. And I think we've got
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 7: to figure out how to get the Rafah Crossing open
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 7: and our humanitarian assistance delivered through the Rafah Crossing so
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 7: that Palestinian civilians can receive the humanitarian assistance necessary, even
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 7: under the tough conditions of a very necessary war in
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 7: terms of the elimination of Hamas. Now, the administration is
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 7: likely to present a national security package that perhaps is
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 7: also inclusive of humanitarian relief requests. I don't want to
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 7: get out ahead of the administration in terms of what
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 7: the four corners of that relief package might look like,
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 7: along with the security assistance necessary for Israel and Ukraine,
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 7: replenishing America's military reserves as well. I think will be necessary.
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 7: What we've seen is that this is a very dangerous
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 7: world in the Middle East, in Europe, all across the globe.
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 7: And we have to make sure that we are in
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 7: the strongest possible position to defend our home line as well.
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 4: Leader Jeffries, thank you for your time. And thanks for
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 4: coming back to Pod Save America. We'll talk to you
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 4: again soon.
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: Always great to be on. Thank you so much.
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 4: Okay, before we go, we have Crooked's own Shaniqua McClendon
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 4: joining us for a quick rundown of what we should
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 4: be watching for in the 2023 elections that are just
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 4: four weeks from now.
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: Hey, Shaniqua.
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 9: Hey, how are y'all?
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 1: Good. Thanks for joining.
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 9: Thanks for having me.
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 4: Let's start by briefly talking about the bad news. Democrats
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 4: in Louisiana had a rough primary election over the weekend.
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 4: Republican Attorney General Jeff Landry will replace Democrat John Bel
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 4: Edwards as the state's next governor because he won 52%
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 4: of the vote in a 16-person field. which means he
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 4: avoids a runoff with Democrat Sean Wilson. Shaniqua, what happened?
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 4: And more importantly, are there any lessons Democrats can learn
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 4: from this loss?
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 9: Things did not go well. I think the biggest lesson
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 9: is that you have to do things. There was really
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 9: little investment, little attention paid to this race. And I
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 9: think it showed up. The turnout was 35.8%, which was
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 9: about 10% less than turnout in 2019, I think. So,
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 9: you know, that can really make the difference in an election. And,
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 9: you know, there were 16 candidates, but there were three
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 9: that were kind of serious candidates. And it is pretty
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 9: bad that two Republicans were running in those top three spots.
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 9: And one was still able to come out with over
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 9: 50% of the vote. This election was also on a Saturday.
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 9: And apparently there was a big LSU football. It's October,
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 9: so football game. So having elections on Saturdays is probably
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 9: not a bad idea, but probably should not do it
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 9: when there's a huge football game going on in a
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 9: state where football is really important.
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 2: So it was football's fault? Yet again, something else football
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 2: makes worse in this fucking world of ours?
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 3: Well, they crushed Auburn, so.
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 4: I mean, we often say that it's like everything matters,
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 4: turnout and persuasion. But when your turnout is 36% for
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 4: a gubernatorial race.
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: Like, I don't care how many people you're persuading.
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: That's garbage.
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 9: I hate to throw anyone under the bus, so I
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 9: won't say anything specifically. But there is a post on
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 9: Instagram talking about how bad the turnout was. And there
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 9: are a lot of people in the comments basically saying
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 9: they never got a phone call, a text, a piece
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 9: of mail or anything from the candidate that they were
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 9: supposed to vote for.
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Campaigns actually matter.
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 9: All right.
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 4: So let's talk about the big state legislative elections in Virginia.
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 4: What's at stake there?
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 9: Pretty much everything. As we know, in 2021, Glenn Youngkin
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 9: beat Terry McAuliffe. And so they have a Republican governor.
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 9: And when he ran, he kind of positioned himself as
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 9: a moderate Republican who wouldn't do too many crazy things.
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 9: But he's already indicated that he probably will support some
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 9: form of an abortion ban in the state if he's
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 9: able to capture the other chamber he doesn't have. So
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 9: right now, Democrats have control of the state Senate. And
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 9: they do not have control of the state house. And
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 9: so they need to keep the state Senate and take
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 9: over the state house to ensure that Glenn Youngkin cannot
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 9: get a bill out of the legislature that he would
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 9: then sign to ban abortion. And something that we've just
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 9: been really emphasizing for our volunteers as they talk to
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 9: voters is that if Republicans are able to have a
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 9: trifecta in Virginia, that is going to send a signal
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 9: nationally that Republicans should start leaning in on taking away
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 9: abortion rights because it's worked in this really purple state.
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 9: So Early voting has already started there and there's a
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 9: lot at stake. So if you have not voted, you
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 9: should go vote. And if you have voted already, definitely
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 9: get involved.
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 4: How close are the Republicans from getting the trifecta? So
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 4: obviously they have the House, but how many seats do
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 4: they need to flip in the Senate?
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 9: So right now, Democrats have a 22 person majority, but
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 9: Republicans have 17 caucusing Republicans and then they have one
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 9: non-caucasing Republican. So essentially four seats. they need to flip
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 9: to take control of the Senate, and then they would
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 9: have a trifecta and be able to pretty much do
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 9: whatever they want.
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 1: That is not many.
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 4: So that is really important for people to get involved
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 4: in Virginia. And people can get involved in Virginia, not
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 4: just if you live in Virginia, but you can support
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 4: from outside the state as well, right?
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 9: Virginia has barely any rules around money. So if you
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 9: want to donate, you can kind of Pick where you
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 9: want to donate. We have a fund for candidates on
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 9: the Vote Save America site. But also, if you want
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 9: to volunteer, you can make phone calls and text messages
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 9: into the state. Or if you live in D.C. or Maryland,
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 9: you can drive down there and go knock on some doors.
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 1: Excellent.
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 4: And there's also a pretty big ballot initiative in Ohio
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 4: that would help protect abortion access. How are people on
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 4: the ground feeling about that one?
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 9: Generally, they feel good about the way people feel about
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 9: protecting abortion. But there are some concerns around the language
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 9: for the ballot. In August, there was a special election
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 9: ballot measure. that was trying to change the threshold to
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 9: pass this ballot measure. And on that one, people who
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 9: supported having access to abortion needed to vote no. And
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 9: this time they need to vote yes, because the ballot
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 9: measure will actually add a clause into the Constitution to
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 9: protect abortion. And But there's concerns that people voted no
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 9: last time and they think that that is what they're
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 9: supposed to do this time. So the big obstacle is
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 9: making sure people vote the right way, but people feel
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 9: pretty good about Ohioans wanting to protect abortion.
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 1: And if people want to help out in Ohio, Vote
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 1: Save America? Yes.
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 9: If you go to votesaveamerica.com slash nooffyears, you can find
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 9: ways to get involved in Ohio and Virginia.
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 1: Excellent. All right, everyone.
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 4: No excuse for getting surprised like we did in Louisiana,
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 4: in Ohio and Virginia. Everyone's got to work hard these
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 4: last couple of weeks.
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 9: Yeah.
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 2: I was trying to think of an etouffee thing, but
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 2: I have nothing. Etouffete?
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 3: That works.
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 1: That works.
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 9: I don't know what that means.
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 2: You got one?
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 1: You got it? No, I know. I know. Yeah, no,
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 1: I got it.
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 2: Etouffete? Etouffete?
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 1: Etouffete?
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 3: Also, we had a really great, one of the leaders
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 3: of the effort to organize in Ohio on the show
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 3: a while back, Desiree Timms.
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 8: Yes.
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 3: They're working really hard. They have a grassroots army trying
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 3: to beat millions and millions of dollars of out-of-state republican
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 3: billionaire money so help them out yeah yeah.
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 4: Uh shaniqua thanks for stopping by anything else we should
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 4: know about the 2023 elections except for just go to
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 4: vote save america they are.
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 9: Happening that is what people need to know that they.
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 4: Are all right they're happening four weeks from today all
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 4: right shaniqua thank you so much for for joining thanks
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 4: also to uh leader hakeem jeffries for joining oh and
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 4: by the way The Thursday episode will not come out
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 4: on Thursday because we will be live in D.C.
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 1: Thursday night.
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 4: And so you'll be able to hear that episode first
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 4: thing Friday morning.
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 1: We will talk to you then. Bye, everyone.
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 4: Pod Save America is a Crooked Media production. Our producers
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 4: are Olivia Martinez and David Toledo. Our associate producer is
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 4: Farrah Safari. Writing support from Hallie Kiefer. Reid Cherlin is
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 4: our executive producer. The show is mixed and edited by
• 1:11:04
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• 1:11:11
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• 1:11:13
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• 1:11:17
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