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Two murders solved by the most unlikely witnesses - MrBallen · Crime and Horror

0:00
Speaker 1: Today we have two stories about individuals who go above
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Speaker 1: and beyond to try to make sure investigators have everything
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Speaker 1: they need to solve a case. However, in both instances,
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Speaker 1: as you'll see, the cases take a wild, unexpected turn
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Speaker 1: as a result of what these individuals provide that does
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Speaker 1: solve the case, but in just an extremely unexpected way.
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Speaker 1: But before we get into today's stories, if you're a
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Speaker 1: fan of the Strange, Dark, and Mysterious delivered in story format,
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Speaker 1: our weekly uploads. Okay, let's get into today's stories. On
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Speaker 1: the morning of October 20th, 1997, a 40-year-old man named
1:13
Speaker 1: Kevin Dowling rode a small boat across a reservoir that
1:16
Speaker 1: was near his home in Spring Grove, Pennsylvania. And this
1:19
Speaker 1: reservoir was beautiful. It was quiet and peaceful out here,
1:23
Speaker 1: and the weather was perfectly cool, and the leaves on
1:26
Speaker 1: all the trees around the water were very colorful and
1:28
Speaker 1: starting to fall. And as Kevin looked around at all
1:31
Speaker 1: this incredible scenery, He knew he had chosen the exact
1:35
Speaker 1: right spot for what he needed to do. So Kevin
1:38
Speaker 1: had rented this boat to go fishing. But in reality,
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Speaker 1: he was out here primarily just to have a place
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Speaker 1: where he could relax and just think. So lately, Kevin's
1:48
Speaker 1: life had been incredibly stressful. And so moments of calm
1:52
Speaker 1: and peace were just very few and far between. The
1:54
Speaker 1: stress really began when, recently, Kevin had lost his full-time job.
1:59
Speaker 1: He had been an operations manager at a convenience store
2:02
Speaker 1: and he had been fired after making just one mistake.
2:05
Speaker 1: And now he had to work the night shift at
2:07
Speaker 1: a Staples store just to support his family. And they
2:10
Speaker 1: were barely getting by. And Kevin, believe it or not,
2:12
Speaker 1: was generally speaking a very overachieving person. And so to
2:17
Speaker 1: have his life playing out the way it was, was,
2:19
Speaker 1: you know, just very disappointing. And it was also just
2:23
Speaker 1: turning him into a very stressed out, angry person. And
2:26
Speaker 1: he knew that was happening. He'd been lashing out at
2:28
Speaker 1: his wife, yelling at his kids, and he'd even gotten
2:31
Speaker 1: into this horrible altercation with an art gallery owner in town.
2:35
Speaker 1: And so finally, after a couple of months of just
2:37
Speaker 1: being this sort of awful person with these angry outbursts
2:40
Speaker 1: and sleepless nights as a result of all this stress,
2:44
Speaker 1: he knew he had to do something to turn things around.
2:47
Speaker 1: And so he thought this fishing trip was just what
2:51
Speaker 1: he needed. Kevin looked towards the front of the boat
2:53
Speaker 1: where there was a camera set up on a tripod.
2:56
Speaker 1: Anytime Kevin went out on these fishing expeditions, he would
2:59
Speaker 1: film himself, both to capture the moments he would catch
3:02
Speaker 1: the fish, and also because he just liked, after he'd
3:05
Speaker 1: returned from these trips, to just watch the footage all
3:08
Speaker 1: over again. It sort of brought him back to a
3:11
Speaker 1: time and place out on the water that was just great.
3:14
Speaker 1: He liked fishing, it was peaceful, it was calm, and
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Speaker 1: so he was doing that for this trip as well.
3:19
Speaker 1: Even though right now, as he sat there, as serene
3:22
Speaker 1: as things were, You know, he was filled with a
3:24
Speaker 1: whole lot of angst and a lot of stress and anxiety,
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Speaker 1: but he figured, you know what? I'm out here. I
3:29
Speaker 1: need to put on a good performance for the camera,
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Speaker 1: be the happiest version of myself I can be, so
3:35
Speaker 1: that when I return to dry land and I show
3:37
Speaker 1: this footage to my family and I refer to it myself,
3:41
Speaker 1: I don't want to see that I was so, you know,
3:43
Speaker 1: upset while I was out here. This is supposed to
3:45
Speaker 1: be my catharsis. This is supposed to be a chance
3:48
Speaker 1: for me to decompress. So basically, he looked at the
3:51
Speaker 1: camera and sort of told himself, like, okay, smile and like,
3:55
Speaker 1: enjoy this trip. This is good for your mental health.
3:57
Speaker 1: And so Kevin rode a bit further into the reservoir
3:59
Speaker 1: and he came to a spot that he thought was good.
4:02
Speaker 1: He pulled in the oars and then he reached over
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Speaker 1: and turned on the camera and sort of waved and said, okay,
4:07
Speaker 1: you know, I'm out here about to start. And then
4:10
Speaker 1: he took a deep breath and he cast his line
4:12
Speaker 1: into the water. Early the next morning, Kevin was at
4:16
Speaker 1: his kitchen table feeling extremely tired. So the day before,
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Speaker 1: after he had gone fishing on the reservoir, he had
4:23
Speaker 1: a night shift at Staples. And so he did the
4:25
Speaker 1: whole shift. He comes home, he barely sleeps, and now
4:28
Speaker 1: he's back up again. And so he's just totally exhausted,
4:31
Speaker 1: eating breakfast with his wife. And so while the two
4:33
Speaker 1: of them are just sitting there in silence, eating their food,
4:36
Speaker 1: there's this sudden sharp knocking on the front door. And
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Speaker 1: the two of them look at each other like, who
4:41
Speaker 1: would this be? They both didn't know. And so Kevin
4:44
Speaker 1: got up, he walked to the front door, he opened
4:46
Speaker 1: it up, and he was very surprised to see two
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Speaker 1: police officers standing there. And so Kevin asked them like,
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Speaker 1: How can I help you? And they told him they
4:55
Speaker 1: were here because of a fight that Kevin had gotten
4:57
Speaker 1: into with that art gallery owner a few months ago.
5:01
Speaker 1: They said that the entire situation had now escalated and
5:04
Speaker 1: the police needed to get a statement. Now, Kevin did
5:07
Speaker 1: not try to deny that he had gotten into a
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Speaker 1: fight with this person. So instead, he just stepped outside
5:12
Speaker 1: to speak to them alone. And pretty much the instant
5:14
Speaker 1: he was out there speaking to the cops, it was
5:16
Speaker 1: like his stomach was just in knots. I mean, it
5:19
Speaker 1: just seemed crazy that the day before he was out
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Speaker 1: on the beautiful reservoir going fishing, having this sort of
5:24
Speaker 1: nice time. I mean, his life was so stressful these days.
5:28
Speaker 1: But it's like just yesterday, he had finally found some peace.
5:31
Speaker 1: He was so eager to watch back his video of
5:34
Speaker 1: him fishing. Like that was just a nice moment in time,
5:37
Speaker 1: a rare nice moment. And now he's got more problems,
5:41
Speaker 1: more stress being piled on. Like he couldn't believe it.
5:44
Speaker 1: But Kevin knew like he needed to comply here. Like
5:46
Speaker 1: whatever they needed, he was going to try to give
5:48
Speaker 1: it to them. And so he just asked one of
5:50
Speaker 1: the officers to please explain a little bit more about
5:52
Speaker 1: what was really going on here. This seems pretty serious.
5:55
Speaker 1: And one of the officers, he just said, look, I
5:57
Speaker 1: can't give you too many details here, but they told
6:00
Speaker 1: him there had been another altercation at the art gallery
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Speaker 1: yesterday morning. And Kevin was being considered a suspect at
6:07
Speaker 1: this point because he had previously gotten into a fight
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Speaker 1: with this owner. Now for Kevin, obviously this was not good.
6:13
Speaker 1: This was very bad. This was shocking. This is like
6:16
Speaker 1: not good news. But on the other hand, When they
6:19
Speaker 1: said this happened yesterday morning, I mean, Kevin's mind immediately
6:23
Speaker 1: went to his fishing trip. He had been fishing yesterday morning.
6:27
Speaker 1: You know, he was at this reservoir that's at least
6:29
Speaker 1: 45 minutes away from the art gallery. He had receipts
6:33
Speaker 1: from taking that boat out. He had receipts from his
6:35
Speaker 1: fish bait. He even took a video that was likely
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Speaker 1: timestamped while he was out in the water. And so
6:41
Speaker 1: Kevin tells the officers that, like, I have no idea
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Speaker 1: what happened at the art gallery, but I wasn't involved. Like,
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Speaker 1: whatever happened yesterday, that was not me. A few seconds later,
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Speaker 1: Kevin had led the officers into his house. He'd gone upstairs,
6:53
Speaker 1: grabbed his fishing bag out of his closet. He had
6:55
Speaker 1: rifled through it and grabbed all the receipts and then
6:57
Speaker 1: come back downstairs. And when he did, he saw the
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Speaker 1: officers were speaking to his wife and asking her about
7:02
Speaker 1: his alibi. And she had said, yes, Kevin had been fishing.
7:06
Speaker 1: And she'd even watched a home video of his trip
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Speaker 1: that he had made because he always made videos of
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Speaker 1: when he went fishing. And so at this point, the
7:12
Speaker 1: officers seemed satisfied and they took the receipts as well
7:15
Speaker 1: as the videotape that Kevin's wife had mentioned. And they
7:19
Speaker 1: said they'd just be in touch if they had any
7:20
Speaker 1: more questions. Over the next few days, Kevin totally forgot
7:25
Speaker 1: about the police stuff. I mean, whatever happened at the
7:27
Speaker 1: art gallery, that had nothing to do with him. That
7:29
Speaker 1: was totally separate. He had given the evidence over. He
7:32
Speaker 1: hadn't heard from the police. So in his mind, like,
7:35
Speaker 1: that's over and done with. However, on the evening of
7:38
Speaker 1: October 29th, so a little more than a week after
7:41
Speaker 1: the police had first shown up at his home, Kevin
7:43
Speaker 1: had just finished making dinner and was about to sit
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Speaker 1: down and eat it with his family when the doorbell rang.
7:48
Speaker 1: followed by a series of very loud knocks. And so Kevin,
7:51
Speaker 1: he got up, sort of looked at his wife. They
7:53
Speaker 1: both exchanged a look like, who is this? And then
7:56
Speaker 1: he walked over to the front and through the window,
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Speaker 1: he could see who it was. It was the police again.
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Speaker 1: This time when he opened the door, they didn't ask
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Speaker 1: politely for him to just make a statement. Instead, one
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Speaker 1: of them immediately stepped forward and slapped a pair of
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Speaker 1: handcuffs on his wrists and said he was under arrest.
8:14
Speaker 1: So the real reason why Kevin's life had been so stressful,
8:18
Speaker 1: that really he couldn't get a night's sleep, that he's
8:20
Speaker 1: just constantly anxious, really didn't have to do with the
8:24
Speaker 1: fact that he had lost his job. That was part
8:26
Speaker 1: of it. But really it was the thing that caused
8:28
Speaker 1: his firing that was keeping him up at night. And
8:31
Speaker 1: that was actually his altercation with the art gallery owner
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Speaker 1: a few months earlier. That altercation was actually really, really serious.
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Speaker 1: It was not just he and this woman getting into
8:43
Speaker 1: a fight, no. Kevin robbed this woman and also assaulted her.
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Speaker 1: And then he was subsequently arrested, lost his job because
8:53
Speaker 1: he was arrested. And then while he was out on bail,
8:56
Speaker 1: he's staring down this trial date that's looming for these
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Speaker 1: charges he's been arrested for. And he knows everything. There's
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Speaker 1: footage of him. There's witness testimony. Like he's going to lose.
9:06
Speaker 1: He's got no job. Like he's going to look like
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Speaker 1: a total pariah in the community. He's embarrassed. He's made
9:12
Speaker 1: this horrible decision. And like his life is already basically wrecked.
9:16
Speaker 1: And it's only going to get worse if this goes
9:19
Speaker 1: to trial. And so what does he do? Kevin, the
9:21
Speaker 1: perfectionist who always sort of follows through on all the
9:25
Speaker 1: things in his life, you know, to that point. He
9:27
Speaker 1: decides he needs to go back there to the art
9:30
Speaker 1: gallery again. and finish the job. He needs to get
9:32
Speaker 1: rid of this woman so there won't be a trial,
9:35
Speaker 1: so he won't be found guilty, so his life won't
9:37
Speaker 1: be ruined. And so, about a week ago, he did
9:41
Speaker 1: go back to the art gallery, he killed this woman,
9:43
Speaker 1: and then that same day, he goes out on the
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Speaker 1: reservoir and pretends to be out there on this fishing trip.
9:49
Speaker 1: He films himself fishing because that's what he did always do,
9:53
Speaker 1: but really, it was just in order to create an
9:55
Speaker 1: alibi that would show he was out on the water,
9:57
Speaker 1: even though it was actually in the afternoon. He was
10:00
Speaker 1: not there in the morning. He filmed that video in
10:02
Speaker 1: the afternoon. He claimed it was in the morning. And basically,
10:06
Speaker 1: Kevin almost got away with it between the receipts for
10:08
Speaker 1: the boat and the bait and this video and his
10:11
Speaker 1: wife saying, oh, yeah, he was fishing the day before.
10:14
Speaker 1: And Kevin was very innocent when he spoke to police.
10:16
Speaker 1: But what got him caught actually was the video. In
10:19
Speaker 1: the video, the position of the sun, which the officers
10:22
Speaker 1: picked up on, didn't make sense for it being the morning.
10:26
Speaker 1: It was too high in the sky. Like if it
10:28
Speaker 1: had been the morning, it just would have looked visibly different.
10:31
Speaker 1: And so they determined that Kevin's video was not shot
10:34
Speaker 1: in the morning. He could have filmed that at any
10:36
Speaker 1: point later in the day, which created a window that
10:39
Speaker 1: morning that he could have gone back to the art
10:41
Speaker 1: gallery and he could have killed that woman, which he did. Also,
10:44
Speaker 1: just to add credibility to this theory that Kevin had,
10:47
Speaker 1: forged this video, or at least forged the time he
10:50
Speaker 1: had shot it, an expert was able to determine that
10:53
Speaker 1: the timestamps on the video had been tampered with, further
10:57
Speaker 1: clarifying that this was a fake. Kevin was found guilty
11:00
Speaker 1: not only of the robbery and assault charges that he
11:03
Speaker 1: was initially charged with, but also he was found guilty
11:06
Speaker 1: of first-degree murder. He was sentenced to death, and as
11:09
Speaker 1: of April 2026, he is still on death row awaiting execution.
11:31
Speaker 1: Just before 6 p.m. on Sunday, July 12, 1942, a
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Speaker 1: man named Robert stumbled into a bar called the Green
11:38
Speaker 1: Parrot in Harlem, New York. And Robert was already very,
11:43
Speaker 1: very drunk. He'd been drinking all afternoon because he'd won
11:46
Speaker 1: a bunch of money in a dice game earlier that day,
11:48
Speaker 1: and he had just been celebrating. And now he was
11:52
Speaker 1: wandering into this bar, the Green Parrot, to keep the
11:54
Speaker 1: party going and keep on drinking. So at this point
11:57
Speaker 1: in 1942... The neighborhood where he was, Harlem, which is
12:01
Speaker 1: a neighborhood within New York City, it really struggled with
12:04
Speaker 1: a very high level of violent crime. And this bar,
12:07
Speaker 1: the Green Parrot, was very popular amongst locals. And so
12:12
Speaker 1: this bar attracted a big crowd, which often became a
12:15
Speaker 1: very rough crowd. And so because of how violent this
12:18
Speaker 1: area was, and because of all this cash that Robert
12:20
Speaker 1: had won earlier in the day, which he had on
12:22
Speaker 1: his person... Robert had decided to bring his gun with
12:26
Speaker 1: him out to the bar like he was armed as
12:28
Speaker 1: he walked into the Green Parrot. And he was glad
12:30
Speaker 1: he was because, again, this is like a dangerous spot.
12:33
Speaker 1: But as Robert actually went inside of the Green Parrot,
12:37
Speaker 1: he found that it actually wasn't that crowded that night. Now,
12:40
Speaker 1: it was only about 6 p.m. and it would get
12:42
Speaker 1: much busier or it usually got much busier later in
12:45
Speaker 1: the night. But at this point, even though he's very drunk,
12:48
Speaker 1: you know, he looked around and he saw there was
12:50
Speaker 1: like maybe 20 people in there. And for Robert, this
12:53
Speaker 1: actually was kind of a good thing because it meant
12:55
Speaker 1: it would be easier for him to get up to
12:57
Speaker 1: the bar and, you know, get served, get more drinks.
13:00
Speaker 1: And so Robert staggered his way over to the bar
13:02
Speaker 1: where the owner, Max Geller, was pouring drinks and helping customers.
13:06
Speaker 1: And so Robert, he gets up there and he looks
13:08
Speaker 1: around and right away, he actually recognized a number of
13:11
Speaker 1: people that were there at the bar. They were regulars.
13:14
Speaker 1: And then he saw actually there was one particular regular,
13:17
Speaker 1: this shorter guy, who he knew was really mean and
13:21
Speaker 1: nasty and just super aggressive. And he clocked him as
13:24
Speaker 1: a guy that he wanted to keep his distance from.
13:26
Speaker 1: And so Robert turned his attention to Max, the owner,
13:29
Speaker 1: and he sort of sloppily waved at him trying to
13:31
Speaker 1: get his attention. And Max, who was still busy preparing
13:34
Speaker 1: drinks for others, he sort of looked up and stared
13:37
Speaker 1: at Robert and kind of, you know, did sort of
13:39
Speaker 1: like a check of him to see how drunk he
13:40
Speaker 1: really was. And then Max served the other people. And
13:44
Speaker 1: then he walked over to Robert with sort of a
13:45
Speaker 1: skeptical look on his face. And he's like, what can
13:48
Speaker 1: I do for you, Robert? And Robert, he's like closing
13:51
Speaker 1: one eye. He's so drunk. He's like, I want to drink.
13:55
Speaker 1: And Max looked at him and he's like, no, you're
13:58
Speaker 1: too drunk. I can't serve you. Now, at first, Robert
14:01
Speaker 1: was just defensive and was basically like, come on, like
14:04
Speaker 1: I'm in here all the time. And I've certainly been
14:07
Speaker 1: pretty drunk before and you've served me. I don't understand
14:09
Speaker 1: why this is different. But Max stuck to his word,
14:12
Speaker 1: and he's like, no, I'm not going to serve you.
14:14
Speaker 1: You're too intoxicated. And so slowly, Robert became angrier and angrier,
14:20
Speaker 1: and he began saying, like, you're serving everybody else. There's
14:22
Speaker 1: guys here that are more drunk than me. Like, I
14:24
Speaker 1: don't get it. Like, you have to give me a drink.
14:27
Speaker 1: And at this point, Max, you know, sensing just how
14:30
Speaker 1: upset Robert was, he said, look, now you're going to
14:33
Speaker 1: just have to leave. Like, I'm not going to serve you,
14:35
Speaker 1: and you have to leave. Robert, he went from now
14:39
Speaker 1: just being mad to being humiliated. He's being like humiliated
14:42
Speaker 1: in front of the whole bar. And it was almost
14:44
Speaker 1: like he couldn't help what he did next. It was
14:46
Speaker 1: like rage coursed through his body. And almost without thinking,
14:51
Speaker 1: Robert drew his gun, aimed and fired. And he shot
14:56
Speaker 1: Max in the face. Now, instantly, as soon as this
15:00
Speaker 1: shot rang out, the bar is just thrust into absolute chaos.
15:04
Speaker 1: People are screaming. Like, 90% of the people in there
15:07
Speaker 1: had no idea this was even happening, let alone that
15:10
Speaker 1: people are shooting each other. It was just chaos. People
15:13
Speaker 1: are screaming. They're running around. And Robert, it was like
15:16
Speaker 1: he couldn't even believe what he had just done, and
15:18
Speaker 1: he just immediately pocketed and hid his weapon... Then sort
15:21
Speaker 1: of just backed away from the scene because, again, people
15:24
Speaker 1: aren't even sure who got shot. People are looking around.
15:27
Speaker 1: He sort of began to blend into the crowd. And
15:29
Speaker 1: then as soon as he could, he just turned and
15:31
Speaker 1: ran out of the bar. About a half an hour later,
15:34
Speaker 1: around 6.30 p.m., an investigator with the New York City
15:37
Speaker 1: District Attorney's Office named Louis Paniuko hurried down the sidewalk
15:41
Speaker 1: toward the Green Parrot, which at this point was swarming
15:44
Speaker 1: with police officers. Paniuko, who had just been called to
15:47
Speaker 1: the scene, really only knew that there had been a
15:50
Speaker 1: shooting at this bar. and that the victim had apparently
15:53
Speaker 1: been shot in the face, but was alive, and he
15:56
Speaker 1: was on his way to the hospital. Outside the bar,
15:59
Speaker 1: Panuco could see a bunch of these police officers already
16:01
Speaker 1: interviewing a whole crowd of people, who Panuco assumed were
16:05
Speaker 1: witnesses of the shooting. And there were a lot of them,
16:08
Speaker 1: so Panuco hoped that at least one of them would
16:10
Speaker 1: have something useful to say. And so Panuco just let
16:13
Speaker 1: these officers handle this initial questioning of this group, You know,
16:16
Speaker 1: if he needed to, he would speak to people later,
16:18
Speaker 1: but for now, he just headed inside the bar to
16:20
Speaker 1: see what was going on. And as soon as he
16:22
Speaker 1: stepped inside, another officer came up to Paniuko to just
16:25
Speaker 1: give him a quick briefing. He said the bar's owner,
16:29
Speaker 1: Max Geller, was the one who had been shot, and
16:31
Speaker 1: he had been shot in the mouth, and that he
16:33
Speaker 1: was alive, but when he was taken off to the hospital,
16:36
Speaker 1: he was unconscious, so nobody could ask him what happened. Then,
16:40
Speaker 1: this officer told Paniuko that there had been a bunch
16:42
Speaker 1: of customers in the bar during the shooting... and that
16:45
Speaker 1: that was the crowd outside. Those were the people that
16:47
Speaker 1: the officers were getting statements from. However, this officer told
16:50
Speaker 1: Paniuko that so far, almost none of the people they
16:54
Speaker 1: were speaking with were cooperating. Pretty much everybody was just saying, oh,
16:59
Speaker 1: I don't know what happened, or I didn't see who
17:01
Speaker 1: shot who. It was like they didn't want to tell
17:03
Speaker 1: the police what they actually knew. The only witness so
17:06
Speaker 1: far who had said anything of substance was this very short,
17:09
Speaker 1: very loud, regular officer who even now, a half an
17:12
Speaker 1: hour after the shooting, was acting extremely agitated and just
17:16
Speaker 1: sort of like loud and very aggressive. It was the
17:19
Speaker 1: same one, the same regular that Robert, when he had
17:22
Speaker 1: first walked in, had noticed and thought, boy, I don't
17:24
Speaker 1: want to be around that person. This regular was just
17:27
Speaker 1: screaming that this whole thing was a robbery. That was
17:31
Speaker 1: like all he kept saying. It was a robbery. It
17:32
Speaker 1: was a robbery. But, I mean, in the eyes of
17:35
Speaker 1: the officers who were around this regular, this short, angry guy,
17:39
Speaker 1: It just sort of seemed like he was traumatized by
17:42
Speaker 1: what he saw. And so he was just repeating the
17:45
Speaker 1: word robber over and over and over again, in part
17:48
Speaker 1: likely because he was drunk, in part maybe because he
17:50
Speaker 1: was traumatized. And it was like a weird response he
17:53
Speaker 1: was having. So it was just sort of heavily discounted
17:55
Speaker 1: what he was saying. They're like, OK, maybe it was
17:57
Speaker 1: a robbery, but maybe you're just kind of out of it.
18:00
Speaker 1: But the officer told Paniuko that, you know, they searched
18:03
Speaker 1: the bar. At least they did a cursory search of
18:05
Speaker 1: the bar. And it didn't seem like anything had been
18:08
Speaker 1: taken there. So it really didn't seem like this was
18:10
Speaker 1: a robbery. So again, it just seemed like this guy
18:13
Speaker 1: who was yelling about the robbery basically didn't know what
18:16
Speaker 1: he was talking about. And so at this point, Pignucco,
18:19
Speaker 1: you know, on the one hand, he was frustrated by
18:21
Speaker 1: what he was hearing, but also he really wasn't that surprised.
18:24
Speaker 1: I mean, he's thinking that, you know, in this area,
18:26
Speaker 1: in Harlem at this time, there was a huge distrust
18:30
Speaker 1: of police. I mean, most residents refused to cooperate with authorities.
18:34
Speaker 1: And so it was very likely that some of these
18:36
Speaker 1: people who were out here, you know, not just the
18:38
Speaker 1: guy yelling about a robbery, but the other witnesses, it
18:41
Speaker 1: was very likely that at least one of them knew something.
18:44
Speaker 1: I mean, there wasn't that many of them in the
18:46
Speaker 1: bar at the time of the shooting, but it was
18:48
Speaker 1: just unclear if he would ever get any of that information.
18:51
Speaker 1: But Pinuco knew he would obviously still have to try
18:54
Speaker 1: to get some information from these people. So after getting
18:58
Speaker 1: this brief from this officer, and after sort of walking
19:01
Speaker 1: around the inside of the bar for a second... Then
19:03
Speaker 1: Yuko headed back outside to try to talk to some
19:05
Speaker 1: of the witnesses himself. But pretty much immediately when he
19:09
Speaker 1: began speaking to these people, he saw that there definitely
19:12
Speaker 1: was like a front being put up. You know, he
19:15
Speaker 1: just had this sinking feeling that this investigation was pretty
19:18
Speaker 1: much dead before it was even going to get started.
19:31
Speaker 1: Fast forward about a month, and Pignucco is still hard
19:34
Speaker 1: at work working on this case, except the case took
19:37
Speaker 1: a turn. Because the victim, Max, he fell into a
19:39
Speaker 1: coma right after the shooting, and for weeks he had
19:42
Speaker 1: been in a coma. And authorities, you know, Paniuko included,
19:45
Speaker 1: were hopeful he would wake up and he'd be able
19:48
Speaker 1: to give them additional information about what happened. You know,
19:51
Speaker 1: give them anything because no one by this point had
19:54
Speaker 1: given them any new information. They had basically no evidence.
19:56
Speaker 1: They had nothing. But unfortunately, Max, without regaining consciousness, just died.
20:02
Speaker 1: And so now this was not just a shooting investigation
20:05
Speaker 1: that Paniuko was in charge of. He was in charge
20:07
Speaker 1: of a homicide investigation. a homicide investigation with basically no leads.
20:12
Speaker 1: Because again, it's like none of the witnesses had given
20:16
Speaker 1: them anything. All they knew is Max got shot and
20:19
Speaker 1: now he's dead. And then the only other sort of
20:22
Speaker 1: substantive thing that had come out of any of their
20:24
Speaker 1: interviews was from that short, angry guy, the regular from
20:28
Speaker 1: the bar, who had just demanded that this was a robbery.
20:32
Speaker 1: And at first pass, they had looked around the bar.
20:34
Speaker 1: It didn't seem like anything had been taken. And they
20:37
Speaker 1: had sort of ruled out a robbery. But now, a
20:40
Speaker 1: month later, they had really looked into that angle and
20:43
Speaker 1: they had confirmed that nothing had been taken from the bar.
20:45
Speaker 1: So this was definitely not a robbery. And so basically,
20:48
Speaker 1: Pignucco had nothing. And so at this point, Pignucco decided
20:52
Speaker 1: that his best bet here was actually just to basically
20:55
Speaker 1: start over, just to zoom back out and go back
20:57
Speaker 1: to square one and just see if there was something
21:00
Speaker 1: that they missed. And in fact, Pignucco had brought in
21:03
Speaker 1: a new detective, a guy named John Morrissey, to help
21:06
Speaker 1: him with this new approach. Morrissey was supposed to be
21:09
Speaker 1: this incredibly smart guy who was known for thinking outside
21:12
Speaker 1: the box, something that Pignucco felt like they could really
21:15
Speaker 1: use right now. And so on this particular day, Pignucco
21:18
Speaker 1: had sent Morrissey to the Green Parrot to just speak
21:21
Speaker 1: to anybody that was there, just see if he could
21:23
Speaker 1: learn anything about the shooting from people that are at
21:26
Speaker 1: the bar where this happened, like right now, just go
21:29
Speaker 1: there and talk to people. So off Morrissey goes, and Pignucco,
21:34
Speaker 1: he stayed at the station and And that day, he
21:36
Speaker 1: was going to re-interview all of the patrons who had
21:39
Speaker 1: been at the Green Parrot on the night of the shooting,
21:42
Speaker 1: just to see if, you know, maybe he could get
21:43
Speaker 1: some additional information out of them. And so far, that
21:47
Speaker 1: was not the case. Basically, all the interviews were dead
21:49
Speaker 1: ends like they had been the first time. And so,
21:52
Speaker 1: you know, he had somebody in the room with him
21:53
Speaker 1: right now, and the interview had gone nowhere. And he's like,
21:56
Speaker 1: you know what? You can go. Like, all right, on
21:58
Speaker 1: to the next one. And so that person leaves the
22:00
Speaker 1: interview room. And Pinuco, he gets up and he walks
22:04
Speaker 1: out into the hallway where all these patrons are sitting
22:06
Speaker 1: on chairs waiting to be interviewed. And as he's, you know,
22:10
Speaker 1: getting ready to just grab the next person to speak to,
22:13
Speaker 1: he sees there are two women who were patrons in
22:15
Speaker 1: the bar who were sitting sort of halfway down the
22:17
Speaker 1: hallway and they were talking to each other and they
22:20
Speaker 1: were really not being careful about how loud they were speaking.
22:23
Speaker 1: Like their conversation that they must have thought was private
22:26
Speaker 1: was loud enough that basically everybody in the hallway could
22:28
Speaker 1: hear it. But the reason it really stood out to
22:31
Speaker 1: Pignucco is they weren't speaking English. They were speaking French.
22:34
Speaker 1: Except unbeknownst to these women who likely believed nobody in
22:38
Speaker 1: this hallway spoke French, Pignucco did speak French. And he
22:42
Speaker 1: could hear these women were talking about the case. They
22:45
Speaker 1: were saying that, hey, when you go in there to
22:47
Speaker 1: speak to this detective, tell him you don't know anything. Like,
22:50
Speaker 1: don't give him any information. Because if we do and
22:53
Speaker 1: we get wrapped up in this case... Like, we're going
22:55
Speaker 1: to get dragged out into the public for being involved
22:57
Speaker 1: in this shooting. And what's going to happen is people
23:00
Speaker 1: are going to know that we were at that bar
23:03
Speaker 1: drinking on that night. And we told our husbands we weren't.
23:05
Speaker 1: They're going to be so mad at us. Like, we
23:08
Speaker 1: got to be quiet. Don't tell the detective anything. Just
23:10
Speaker 1: say you know nothing. And so immediately, Panyuko, he walks
23:14
Speaker 1: over to these two women and he points at one
23:15
Speaker 1: of them and says, hey, you're next. Come into the
23:18
Speaker 1: interview room. And he said this in English. And so
23:21
Speaker 1: the women were kind of surprised that they were being
23:23
Speaker 1: tapped to go next, or this woman was surprised. And
23:26
Speaker 1: so she gets up and sort of waves to her
23:28
Speaker 1: friend and she follows Panyuko into the interview room. And
23:30
Speaker 1: so as soon as they sat down, Panyuko in English
23:33
Speaker 1: says to this woman, so are you really worried that
23:36
Speaker 1: your husband is going to find out you were at
23:38
Speaker 1: the Green Parrot if you cooperate with me? And the
23:40
Speaker 1: woman was clearly very surprised by this question, but she
23:44
Speaker 1: just sort of feigned like maybe she didn't fully understand because,
23:47
Speaker 1: you know, she'd been speaking French out there. She doesn't
23:50
Speaker 1: know if Penuko knows that she does or doesn't speak English.
23:53
Speaker 1: And so she just sat there in silence and just
23:55
Speaker 1: looked back at him like she didn't really understand. And
23:58
Speaker 1: Penuko just stared back at her and then in perfect French,
24:02
Speaker 1: asked the same question. Like, are you worried, again in French,
24:05
Speaker 1: that your husband is going to find out you were
24:07
Speaker 1: at the Green Parrot if you cooperate? And at this point,
24:11
Speaker 1: the woman knew, like, the jig was up. Clearly this
24:14
Speaker 1: detective overheard the conversation they had in the hall and
24:17
Speaker 1: That's why he's pulled me in here. I'm caught red-handed.
24:20
Speaker 1: And the woman just began to break down and cry.
24:23
Speaker 1: And then after a few moments, without Panyuko even needing
24:26
Speaker 1: to push her to do this, she just started telling
24:29
Speaker 1: the whole story. She explained that her and her friend
24:32
Speaker 1: out in the hallway had been at the Green Parrot
24:34
Speaker 1: on the night of the shooting, and they actually did
24:37
Speaker 1: see who shot Max. She said it was this guy
24:40
Speaker 1: who was wearing a black and white checkered suit. He
24:43
Speaker 1: had gone up to the bar and And then some
24:45
Speaker 1: sort of altercation happened, and he pulled out a gun,
24:48
Speaker 1: and he shot Max, and then he quickly ran out
24:50
Speaker 1: of the bar. Now, she told Ponyuko that she didn't
24:52
Speaker 1: know this guy's name, but she definitely recognized him. She
24:56
Speaker 1: said that, you know, she had been to the Green
24:58
Speaker 1: Parrot before the night of the shooting, and she had
25:00
Speaker 1: seen this guy, and she thinks that he's just like
25:02
Speaker 1: a regular at this bar. Like, she would definitely recognize
25:06
Speaker 1: him again if she saw him. And so Ponyuko, at
25:08
Speaker 1: this point, I mean, he could barely contain his excitement.
25:11
Speaker 1: I mean, this was really... like the first meaningful lead
25:14
Speaker 1: in the whole case. You have a suspect who apparently
25:17
Speaker 1: is a regular at the bar where the shooting took place,
25:21
Speaker 1: and he dresses in a really distinct way. He wears,
25:24
Speaker 1: you know, flashy clothing. Like this is, this is a
25:26
Speaker 1: great lead. And so Pignucco, like he's thrilled. He thanks
25:30
Speaker 1: this woman. He goes out and he grabs the other
25:32
Speaker 1: woman and he brings her in for questioning. And she
25:35
Speaker 1: would echo the same story as the first woman, that yes,
25:38
Speaker 1: they had been there. They had seen this guy. He
25:39
Speaker 1: was a regular, they thought. And he wore these flashy clothes.
25:43
Speaker 1: And so after this, Pignucco is like, I got to
25:45
Speaker 1: tell Detective Morrissey. I got to fill him in on
25:48
Speaker 1: what I've just learned. This totally changes the case. And
25:51
Speaker 1: so he ran over to Morrissey's office to see if
25:54
Speaker 1: he was back yet from the Green Parrot. But when
25:56
Speaker 1: he went in there, he saw that he wasn't. And
25:58
Speaker 1: so Pignucco, he's like, all right, I'll go back to
26:00
Speaker 1: my office and I'll start making a plan for what
26:03
Speaker 1: we're going to do next until Morrissey gets back. And
26:05
Speaker 1: then I'll brief him up then. And so Pignucco, he
26:08
Speaker 1: goes to his office. He starts excitedly making, you know,
26:10
Speaker 1: plans of what they're going to do, and then a
26:13
Speaker 1: moment later, his door bursts open, and Morrissey comes flying
26:17
Speaker 1: into the room, and he looks totally out of breath,
26:19
Speaker 1: like he's rushed to be here to tell Ponyuko something,
26:23
Speaker 1: but Ponyuko, he turns, and even though he sees, like,
26:26
Speaker 1: clearly Morrissey's got something to tell me, he doesn't let
26:29
Speaker 1: Morrissey talk, because Ponyuko, he's got this big news about
26:32
Speaker 1: the French women, and he just starts telling Morrissey all
26:35
Speaker 1: about this crazy revelation, and how he caught them speaking French,
26:39
Speaker 1: and they were there, and And we have this suspect now.
26:42
Speaker 1: He tells him everything he knows. And so Morrissey, even
26:45
Speaker 1: though he had something big to say himself, he's sitting
26:47
Speaker 1: there listening to Pignucco go on and on. And at
26:50
Speaker 1: the end of it, he's like, man, that is amazing.
26:53
Speaker 1: That's awesome. Great lead. But I'll do you one better.
26:56
Speaker 1: I know the killer's name. It would turn out when
27:01
Speaker 1: police first arrived at the Green Parrot after the shooting,
27:04
Speaker 1: like on day one of this investigation, What they found
27:07
Speaker 1: was basically nothing. You know, they have they have a
27:10
Speaker 1: victim and they have a bunch of witnesses, but none
27:13
Speaker 1: of the witnesses would cooperate. Like there was no leads,
27:16
Speaker 1: no information, no real evidence. All they had was basically
27:20
Speaker 1: this one short, loud, angry guy who kept talking about
27:24
Speaker 1: a robbery. But they had sort of looked around the
27:26
Speaker 1: bar and it didn't appear like this was a robbery.
27:28
Speaker 1: And so he had been discounted and everyone's like, well,
27:31
Speaker 1: he's traumatized. He's sort of like this angry guy who's
27:34
Speaker 1: sort of a mess. We're not going to take him seriously.
27:37
Speaker 1: What he's saying doesn't really add up, so he was
27:39
Speaker 1: kind of discounted. But it would turn out they actually
27:43
Speaker 1: just misunderstood this guy. He wasn't saying robbery, but they
27:48
Speaker 1: didn't know that at the time. They thought he was.
27:50
Speaker 1: They ruled him out. Fast forward a month, and Mr.
27:54
Speaker 1: Think Outside the Box detective, Morrissey... He goes back to
27:58
Speaker 1: the green parrot to see what he can learn. And
28:00
Speaker 1: so Morrissey, he's hearing this and he was told this
28:03
Speaker 1: is what this short guy was saying the first time too.
28:05
Speaker 1: Like this is not that surprising. But Morrissey, you know,
28:08
Speaker 1: he thought outside the box and he figured out what
28:11
Speaker 1: this witness actually meant. The key to doing this was
28:15
Speaker 1: really understanding exactly who this witness was and what the
28:19
Speaker 1: witness was actually capable of knowing. Because this witness, this
28:24
Speaker 1: short angry guy, was actually a literal green parrot that
28:29
Speaker 1: the bar was named after. The parrot was the owner, Max's, pet,
28:34
Speaker 1: and he was always there in the bar. He was
28:35
Speaker 1: a regular, sitting on his perch. And the bird was
28:38
Speaker 1: a huge tourist draw because he was kind of really
28:41
Speaker 1: aggressive and could be sort of mean, and people thought
28:45
Speaker 1: it was pretty funny. And critically, this parrot had been
28:48
Speaker 1: trained to recognize the bar's regulars and refer to them
28:52
Speaker 1: by name. So when Morrissey went back to the bar
28:56
Speaker 1: and listened to the parrot again, he eventually realized the
28:59
Speaker 1: bird was not saying robber, robber, robbery, robbery, and trying
29:03
Speaker 1: to describe like what had happened. No, instead, the bird
29:07
Speaker 1: was saying Robert, Robert, the name of the person responsible,
29:13
Speaker 1: the regular who he had seen commit this crime. And
29:16
Speaker 1: wouldn't you know it, between this new information and what
29:19
Speaker 1: Pignucco had learned from the two French women at the
29:22
Speaker 1: police station, You know, they put their information together, and
29:25
Speaker 1: they discovered that there really had been a regular at
29:28
Speaker 1: the Green Parrot Bar, a guy named Robert Butler, who
29:31
Speaker 1: was a 28-year-old cab driver, who had fled to Baltimore
29:35
Speaker 1: right after the shooting. The detectives were able to track
29:38
Speaker 1: Robert down and confront him about the... murder, and when
29:41
Speaker 1: they explained how they'd figured it all out, Robert just
29:44
Speaker 1: had one thing to say. I never did like that bird.
29:48
Speaker 1: Robert Butler was convicted of manslaughter and sentenced to 15
29:51
Speaker 1: years in prison. The Green Parrot Bar eventually closed, and
29:55
Speaker 1: as for the actual Green Parrot, nobody knows what happened
29:58
Speaker 1: to him. Thank you so much for watching today's episode.
30:07
Speaker 1: Let me know what you thought of it in the
30:08
Speaker 1: comments below. And remember, we have a whole playlist of
30:12
Speaker 1: Places You Can't Go episodes ready for you to binge
30:15
Speaker 1: right now. So go ahead and click here and give
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Speaker 1: them a watch. All right, until next time, see ya.