Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to those naughty boys Luke Molloy & Dylan Rees about their choice of The Impossible Astronaut

Transcript

Talks to those naughty boys Luke Molloy & Dylan Rees about their choice of The Impossible Astronaut · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

0:33
Hamster with a blunt pen knife for doing.
0:35
Quicker, quicker, quicker. Hello and welcome back to
0:43
Hamster with a Blunt pen Knife, the Doctor Who Coventry Podcast.
0:47
I'm here today with the fabulous host of Doctor Who Too Hot TV,
0:53
Dylan Reese. Hello.
0:56
And myself. And we'll be going through The
1:00
Impossible Astronaut, Dave. Oh, and of course we've got the
1:05
man himself, Joe Ford, dot Coho. Was that supposed to be an
1:08
impression of me at the beginning of this it?
1:11
Was a spot on. It was absolutely spawn, yeah.
1:15
I've been practicing this is a. Very important, this recording.
1:21
Three of us talking about Stephen Moffett story.
1:24
Yeah, well, it's going to be very horny if Moffett's
1:26
involved, isn't it? Yes, this is the greatest reason
1:30
of all time. Can I ask you something here?
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Cuz I don't object to a bit of the Are you being served?
1:37
Carry on. Sort of smart, you know, going
1:40
on? No, it has been known to happen.
1:42
You know what do I object to it so much into name of muffins?
1:46
Doctor Who? You know, I don't object to it.
1:49
I quite enjoy it. But it was weird.
1:51
I haven't been back to a Matt Smith episode for a while, and
1:54
coming off the back of Jody's era and having just rewatched
1:57
Flux with you, I'm rewatching this.
1:59
I was like, he is a horny bugger that.
2:03
Stephen laughing about a lot isn't?
2:06
It I I like that's my type of humor if I'm honest.
2:10
I think how can how can horny this never.
2:13
Not be funny. Yeah, no, it's true.
2:16
Maybe that's what the Chibnell era was missing for you.
2:19
It just needed to be Chibnell's. Just not a he seems quite like
2:25
quite an asexual showrunner, you know?
2:28
Whereas RTD and Moffett are all very sex, sex, Sex.
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Whereas Chibnell, but. A modern TV thing as well, and I
2:38
think that made the whisker feel slightly step back.
2:43
That mattress in the console room in the Halloween
2:46
apocalypse, which led you didn't raise to tell me.
2:49
The Jodi Whisker. Amanda, go Sorry, the doctor in
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Yaz. We're getting down to some heavy
2:53
scissoring action. But it's too subtle.
2:57
We need lines like subtle scissoring.
3:01
On a complete side note, I did have to go online afterwards to
3:04
find out what scissoring was and I wish I had it.
3:07
We need the Doctor being hidden under a corset that way.
3:12
Yes. What better way to open your
3:16
your season when? This open with Matt Smith naked
3:20
under a woman's skirt, I was like Jesus Christ.
3:23
I let myself in for. That's.
3:26
Great. Can I ask you guys a question
3:28
before we go into the episode? Yeah, yeah.
3:31
What kind of know the answer to this for you, Luke, but
3:34
obviously people may not have listened to this episode.
3:37
What do you guys think of series 6?
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Do you think it was a success? And why the hell did they never
3:44
really do this again? Do you want to go first to?
3:49
Me, I love series six. I think.
3:51
If anything, the weaker episodes are things sort of the
3:56
standalones. I think it pays off as well as
4:00
any Doctor Who season. Long story slash arc is going to
4:05
there's always going to be a reset, you know.
4:08
No one's not. Everyone will be satisfied by
4:12
the resolution. I've got to say, at the time I
4:15
was jumping for joy by the end of it.
4:16
I thought at the end of the season I thought the wedding of
4:20
River Song. At the time I thought it was the
4:21
best thing I'd ever seen. And I called my brother Jack to
4:26
discuss it and he was like, no, I didn't like it and I.
4:28
Was like, I love your brother. He's so smart.
4:34
And. It was also the the only one of
4:37
the one of two times that my peers that are around my age,
4:42
like my friends from uni and work and things like that, who
4:45
didn't like Doctor Who. This was the only season that
4:47
they all sat down to watch and came back to and came back to.
4:51
And then the next season when it was standalone stories again,
4:54
they weren't interested. So it was the only one that I
4:57
watched with groups of not fans who became invested in the show.
5:02
That is interesting. I think the point you said there
5:05
about at the time, I think that's the biggest thing about
5:11
Series 6. It's very easy to look at it
5:12
now. I think that, Oh yeah, it
5:14
doesn't quite hold up and it's a bunch of like good episodes and
5:16
bad episodes. But at the time, the actual
5:19
journey was really exciting. I thought, I know you sort of
5:23
sense that, but I didn't have that sort of the people around
5:27
me did seem to tune out. After A Good Man Goes to War,
5:30
which is I think we brought up on that podcast, that did seem
5:33
to be the point where like whether it's just people growing
5:37
up or just getting bored with a series that have been running
5:40
for six seasons, which happens. And a lot of people seem to jump
5:45
ship after that with a song revealing a Good Man Goes to
5:48
War. Yeah, it seems that for people
5:51
my age anyway. I think for because I was at uni
5:55
at the time. And I think or just left uni, I
5:58
want to say it was around that age and it was very much the era
6:01
of DVD box sets. So your weekends and your
6:04
evenings, you'd sit and you'd watch 24 or something like that
6:07
and you'd watched 7 or 8 episodes or something.
6:10
So all of a sudden it felt like Doctor Who was being made for.
6:16
That audience I guess you would say and I think there's there's
6:18
a lot of that in terms of this is the year that got quite big
6:20
in America as well. It's only aimed at a slightly
6:23
older audience. It's still accessible for kids,
6:25
but I think it's like, you know, Stephen Moffatt said didn't he
6:28
said we need to pretend that the people aren't what that we know
6:32
the people are watching Doctor Who.
6:34
It's not like they go away so we can do ongoing arcs and stories.
6:38
Yeah. Do you think this is a format
6:41
that works for Doctor Who? Because it is very telling that
6:45
he immediately pushed against this in series 7 and went for
6:48
like movie of the week standalones and and really
6:51
didn't attempt a dense arc like this again.
6:55
Just his run despite the fact he had another Four Seasons to go
6:58
I. Don't know if that was just due
7:00
to he seems quite stressed at the time in interviews from what
7:04
I remember. Of people attacking him for
7:06
being too complicated and too complex.
7:07
Paralyzed Skinner, attacking him for, you know, being terrible in
7:11
bed. I don't know if it was just a
7:13
reaction to that, like, oh, just make it easier for myself.
7:18
I imagine it was quite complicated to do.
7:22
And I think that the the main failure of Series 6 isn't really
7:26
what Moffett's ideas were. It's just TV production, if it,
7:29
you know, if it. If he had more time, maybe the
7:33
amount of time he had to plan series five, I think Series 6
7:36
would be absolutely immense and elite.
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You could have slipped Mel's into Amy's wedding and things
7:42
like that. The idea is that you'd only get
7:45
sort of further into production when it's too late to sort of do
7:47
it. It's sort of hampered by the
7:49
fact that it's TV. But yeah, I hate the criticism
7:54
over all the that criticism people say, Oh well.
7:58
If someone turned this on, they wouldn't know what was going on
8:00
when It's like episode 10 of series.
8:03
Six. Every show now.
8:04
Yeah, that's That shouldn't be a criticism of Doctor Who, because
8:08
yeah, it's fairly anthology. But if you're tuning into any
8:12
show, episode 10 of Series 6 or whatever, you can't expect to
8:16
know everything that's going on. At this point, there was enough.
8:23
Standalones happening that actually you could watch the
8:26
majority of this season and very easily just watch that one
8:29
episode and not be lost. There's maybe 2-2 or three.
8:33
I don't think you can watch The Wedding of River Song.
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And yet maybe you don't know how all the arc elements fit
8:38
together, but it perfectly. Not if you want your IQ intact.
8:41
By the end of it, you don't. But it works as a as a 45
8:45
minute. Watchable thing?
8:46
You might not agree, but. That is, honestly, that is the
8:52
idea of the new series for me, the Wedding River Song.
8:54
That's my least favorite episode.
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There's enough going on in it for it to not be down the
9:00
bottom. No, not in a series that has
9:03
deep breath in it. So much.
9:07
In the forest of the night in it.
9:09
I prefer in the forest of the night.
9:12
But by the time I get to deep breath a few seasons later, I'm
9:16
ready to give up. But you know, it strikes me and
9:21
surprises me quite a lot how Doctor Who showrunners not don't
9:26
have a plan. But you think like Moffett had
9:30
these big ideas of what he wanted to do.
9:33
But things like the Mels thing, as you say, if it was seeded
9:36
through. It would have been more
9:37
interesting. It's like nobody seems to think
9:40
more than about a season ahead. And I know it's very difficult
9:43
to make a show like Doctor Who, but it's like all the shows
9:47
managed to have like okay, We've got an idea and this arc's going
9:50
to run for five series. Doctor Who seems obsessed with,
9:53
like we've got to get the series made and that's when the arc
9:56
finishes. We can't have any dangling
9:58
threads. Whereas, you know, I just want,
10:00
I just want it to be bigger and more cohesive.
10:02
This is my main. Come time with the Doctor, he
10:05
had a whole shopping list of block points that he had to tick
10:08
off. So they popped back from the
10:10
planet Christmas to sit around the table.
10:13
Right. Check.
10:14
The Silence. It was a different chapter of
10:15
the silence. Madam Kvarian, Check.
10:17
Well, that's because he had to get it.
10:19
He had to get it all done in, in one episode because that's left
10:22
a year early. I think I heard.
10:24
I think it was on the time that actually that said that Napoleon
10:29
didn't want any overhanging. Great.
10:32
He wanted to start afresh, so that's why MUFI had to have that
10:35
scene tying everything up so he could start a new.
10:38
Yeah, which makes sense, isn't it, for a new Doctor?
10:41
But yeah, I think he tries. But you are right, whatever it
10:45
is, just because it's Doctor Who.
10:46
I know, like I know all the shows are all so hard to make
10:50
and there's obviously it's like a bit of bias in it, but.
10:53
Maybe if you just like the amount of behind the scenes
10:55
things that you just absorb as a fun, you're like, this sounds
10:58
like the hardest fucking thing to.
11:00
Work salmon in the method that Doctor Who is.
11:02
I mean, every frame is slavished over by Dogs Who fans, isn't it?
11:06
Yeah, looking for the problems rather than the strengths.
11:10
Yeah, but you're right. Like there was a well, it all
11:14
depends on money and who's available and stuff like that.
11:16
I'm sure them American series has had so many more people in
11:19
the writers room and. Things going on rather than just
11:22
one man taking. All the fly chain smoking and
11:25
wanking and. You know, you mentioned America
11:30
there and we'll definitely talk about that in this two-part,
11:32
which is now how it's Doctor Who's sort of getting big or is
11:35
big in America and the influence is clearly there.
11:39
They're throwing money at the show.
11:40
The visuals look amazing. I remember when the trailer
11:45
dropped for this series. And I think I remember thinking
11:49
it looked like the most amazing bit of like Doctor Who I'd ever
11:53
seen in my life. And I was kind of like, right,
11:55
this is it. This is the Doctor Who I've
11:56
always wanted until a large. It was it.
11:59
Was, Yeah. I.
12:02
Think the black spot, but you know.
12:04
It's quite telling though. I think up until this point we
12:07
call it Series one, Series 2, Series 3, but everyone calls
12:09
this season six. It's season that American thing
12:13
just feeds through. No, it just, I don't think just
12:17
naturally like when you say you call it seasons.
12:19
Well, I do, even though I call the rest of it series.
12:24
It's a subconscious thing, cuz it's American.
12:27
Yeah. Well, before we go into the
12:29
episode, can I make a very small statement?
12:31
All right, because. I've decided, you know, I don't
12:34
like this season at all and I'm not sure I'm that keen on this
12:38
two-part up, but you 2 like this a lot and I don't want to spend
12:41
the next two hours shitting on something you love from a great
12:45
height go through. It and I want to.
12:47
Do that because I know it'll be fun to listen.
12:49
So you're not going to say it, I think?
12:52
There's a lot I like in this as well, and there's certainly a
12:54
lot to celebrate because I was watching this going OK.
12:57
This is ambitious. This is epic.
13:00
This has interesting characters in it.
13:02
This looks amazing. You know, there's the old, the
13:05
old whizzy line. There's some terrible lines as
13:07
well, but that's the old whizzy line.
13:10
Why don't I like this? Like what?
13:12
This. This should be my bag, and I
13:15
think I managed to put my finger on it this morning.
13:19
I think. It was just this moment.
13:23
Yeah, I was a. Very happy man.
13:25
Before I went to work. And I think it's because I'm so
13:31
aware of, because this is Stephen Moffett's stories are so
13:37
calculated and so constructed. Yeah, because the plotting is so
13:41
dense and precise. I'm just always aware of the
13:46
artifice of the story. All the time.
13:49
And so from scene to scene, I'm not following an adventure of
13:53
the Doctor. I am aware that I am watching a
13:56
piece of constructed television, and I know in the back of my
13:59
head I know I'm watching a piece of constructed television.
14:03
But I can see the wheels going with everything.
14:06
I can see the cogs turning and I can feel the plot in in a way
14:11
that I just don't with Rusty Davis, Doctor Who.
14:13
With Rusty I I just get swept up in the characters.
14:16
And in the moment and in the set pieces and in the humor.
14:20
But here I'm just so aware that he's working so hard to tell a
14:24
story to impress me, and it takes me right out of it.
14:29
That's so interesting because I do sort of, to an extent know
14:32
what you mean about the feeling. But that to me was always quite
14:36
a reassuring feeling because you knew it was going somewhere and
14:39
it was going to be quite impressive.
14:41
But I think that's where I struggled with JBNALL to an
14:44
extent, is that. It just all feels a bit
14:47
slapdash. And have no faith that
14:49
anything's actually going to happen towards the end.
14:52
Was there any Moffett's? I was so excited when I see
14:55
Moffett's name on a on an episode you knew you were in
14:59
most of the time for something special or at the very least,
15:03
interesting. Yeah, and it's it's also Rusty
15:08
Davis's doctor, who in many ways played it safe in terms of he
15:12
was worried it's on a Saturday night.
15:14
Will audience what will and won't audiences accept whereas
15:17
this is Doctor that's been on for six seasons and it's
15:20
confident as hell. So it it it just has a bravado I
15:23
think that's perhaps is lacking from the Rusty Davies era not
15:28
and that's in no way sort of criticism of that era because
15:31
it's fantastic but I just think it's like the it's amped up to
15:34
11 here and ton of what the show can and tries to do you.
15:39
Got me here, RCD would make me feel.
15:42
In every episode, you know, I'd feel strong emotions.
15:44
Whereas I was watching the Doctor die in this and all I was
15:47
thinking was, well, Yang did OK, it's he'd be yeah.
15:50
This ain't gonna happen. That's sort of what you meant to
15:52
think though, isn't it? It's it's less, it's less.
15:56
Know shit. The Doctor's dead.
15:58
It's more like what happens now, yeah?
16:01
Well, the other problem is, is the second you start pulling
16:04
threads, right? The whole fucking thing
16:07
collapses in on itself in a series of logic where you're
16:10
going. Well, hang on a minute.
16:11
Why didn't you just send them letters after this was all over
16:14
going, you know, by the way, you know I'm going to send you back
16:16
to my death, but it's not my death, all right?
16:19
Tesla, Lexan, that did it all along And and I'm like, why put
16:23
them through all this? You're a bad.
16:24
They can't know their future. Especially Amy.
16:28
She's a fixed point, probably or something.
16:32
That's true. She might have popped early.
16:34
OK, I just wanted to get that out of the way before we go and
16:38
have a nice, happy loving about Series 6.
16:40
Now before we get started, I also want please shout if when
16:46
you figure out what the moment is where she suddenly turned
16:49
into come like because it's the real Amy up until the simple
16:53
point. I know when that be is, I'll
16:55
shout, I'll shout. I've.
16:59
Always been between two minds before this eventually even
17:04
starts or well, I'll shout come at.
17:07
The other point he says he doesn't the Doctor say it later
17:12
on in the series. You haven't been used since Utah
17:15
or something like that. It says you would take.
17:17
I think it says you were taking some time before America.
17:21
Before America. I think he says before.
17:24
She's in the orphanage. And suddenly she screams like
17:28
it's a top horror moment. That would make.
17:31
And then the door slams shut on her and I was like, that's it,
17:34
She's gone. Great.
17:36
OK, well, we've solved that. Oh, so I forget.
17:41
What are you to shut? Come, I.
17:45
Think that's guarantee I'm quite this.
17:48
This might be a bit of a backhanded compliment because I
17:50
don't really like where it ends up with Amy in that tube and the
17:53
come baby. All into dripping around and all
17:56
of that stuff. I don't like any of it, but how
17:58
audacious to have her taken out the first half of the bloody
18:01
series and it's a copy of her. It's it's it's a great pot
18:06
twist. I've got the Doctor Who
18:08
transcripts if you're good, man goes to war here and he says
18:11
they must have taken you quite a while back just before America.
18:17
It's it's crazy. She's like she's come.
18:19
Come. Come.
18:22
Immediate come. We finished early.
18:31
Shall we? Yeah, yes, let's.
18:33
Crack it on. Shall I count us in?
18:36
Yeah. Okay press play in 54321.
18:45
We've all gone quiet. We are.
18:48
Are we all rolling? I'm.
18:49
Rolling. Rolling.
18:51
Fantastic. It's quite it's quite an
18:55
interesting intro. Moffett's quite good at these
18:57
sort of little cold opens that always feel very James Bond in
19:02
style, if not actually sort of execution.
19:05
Just like I love the Doctor being caught up in another
19:08
little adventure, and indeed in someone's undergarments.
19:12
I'll start with the criticism. Stay off the bat.
19:14
Matt Smith's Dr. is caught between this weird thing if.
19:19
Being an absolute lad, lady killer and also not knowing
19:23
anything about women because in series five he is the total lad
19:28
and I much prefer that, yeah. And then by you know at the end
19:33
of series 7 he's he's definitely putting guitar.
19:37
He's looking at horror skirt in series, he knows about girls but
19:41
he's he's saying he. Doesn't I think he's playing the
19:44
innocent. Yes, I do as well.
19:47
He's avoiding cuffs. Yeah.
19:51
It's like we said did it When we watched Halloween Apocalypse.
19:54
They were hanging over that. You know, the acid planet, all
19:58
of this unseen adventure stuff is great, isn't it?
20:00
Yeah, it's brilliant. But there's also that fantastic
20:04
moment coming up with with the Doctor in this old, long and
20:08
harder movie, which is done better than inserting Clara into
20:12
old episodes of Doctor Who. What went on on that page with
20:17
Patrick Trout and yeah. Why is he in California?
20:20
We'll never know. In a woolly coat with the 8
20:23
doctors chasing behind him. I'm.
20:26
Having her hanging out in the Matrix for Peter Davison.
20:30
Yeah, I'm surprised Big Finish haven't done that.
20:33
I do think this is a bit callous.
20:34
So, you know, inviting them all to watch his death, it's.
20:38
A bit odds. It's a bit odds, I think.
20:40
The 11th Doctor. You know, he might wave his hand
20:42
and be a bit cute, but he's a quite a bad.
20:44
Man, yeah, he's one of the, like, most sinister inside.
20:49
Yeah. Did you remember this?
20:51
Do you remember the the trailer for 36 had a shot of Alex
20:56
Kingston with a top off giving that Smith a wink.
20:59
And it it never made it into the final cut.
21:01
Oh yeah, go back and watch the Series 6 trailer.
21:04
Oh. It sounds like you've been back
21:05
and watch that. Look.
21:08
At this shot. Will you look at this shot?
21:13
It's beautiful. These episodes are all very well
21:15
shot and I didn't realize this until today.
21:18
I've got a name drop here, but Stefan Pearson, who is the DOP
21:21
on this I've just been working with and he's a very lovely man
21:24
and very talented. He's gone from Doctor Who to a
21:29
Christmas film. Which is?
21:32
Immediately, Yeah. Matt Smith in a Stepson.
21:36
He looks about 10 years older than Series 5.
21:39
Matt Smith. I don't know what happened.
21:42
One year of working on Doctor. He parted hard, didn't he?
21:49
Wasn't there a story of? Matt Smith and Karen Gillan
21:53
partying too hard in America and Karen Gillan being told off
21:57
because she was walking naked down a hotel corridor.
22:00
I was just about to say hotel corridor.
22:04
John Barrowman could get away with it, could he?
22:09
But there is something like it screams expensive by America
22:13
shooting, doesn't it? And and what's it called?
22:14
Is it Death Valley? Yeah, yeah.
22:19
And I know what it is, is a drone shot of somewhere
22:21
different. I don't think they were there
22:23
for more than three or four days in terms of what they get, but
22:25
it just sells the world and it just makes it look like a
22:29
bigger, bigger show. Reassuringly to reminders, we're
22:32
still in Doctor Who. We're in some shoddy cafe in
22:35
Cardiff now. Did you ever go?
22:38
Me. I've never been to Cardiff.
22:41
What? That's that's a doctorate rite
22:43
of passage. I'll drag my bra from Cardiff.
22:49
Yeah, too gay. Yeah, you've got to go and see
22:51
Yamto Shrine. Oh no, I did.
22:55
I went to the experience I've been to.
22:57
There you go. This that Eddie's Diner was on
23:01
the Bay. I've been it's been called a few
23:02
times. We entered Eddie's Diner.
23:05
Well, a lot to answer for, you know, because it turned up on
23:07
the front cover of Doctor Who magazine with Clara in a
23:10
waitress dress right after Face the Raven.
23:13
I'm like, well, she's back then, didn't she?
23:14
Because. We ain't seen that yet, but.
23:16
Everybody thought Clara wasn't appearing in the last episode of
23:19
the scene. They made Doctor Hayes.
23:20
For shame, she. Thought she was dead shortly
23:22
because we'd all seen them waitress pitches, yeah.
23:26
You know. What?
23:27
This title sequence is a bit of a mistake until I saw the capody
23:31
one and then I went. Back and.
23:32
I've got much fond feelings about that Matt Smith title
23:35
sequence now. I remember not liking the title
23:38
sequence or the theme at the time, but going back to it now
23:41
I'm a bit like oh, this is. Yeah, I wasn't big on this
23:44
title. Nostalgic.
23:46
But yeah, it's nostalgic now. That's the Series 5 Matt Smith.
23:49
You see him spitting out the wine, Yeah.
23:52
You know, it's like, he's wicked.
23:54
It's weird. He does.
23:56
Play it different in each season and I do.
24:00
I really bump into the Series 7 one, but here I think he's sort
24:04
of a nice balance. But.
24:05
This there's a few F 737. It's really not for me.
24:08
And then other episodes. I just think it's perfect.
24:10
Rings of I have this. Yeah.
24:12
Rings of Architect. I just.
24:15
You know what though? There's something about this.
24:17
I notice a shot on location that it feels like a special effects
24:20
shot, although. Yeah, it's that nice.
24:22
Yeah, you you do get that sometimes though.
24:25
You will. When we went to Austria, the job
24:29
just did and run these beautiful mountains and you're stood on
24:31
the side of a like a mountain with a huge Vista.
24:35
And you look at it on camera and you go, oh, that looks like a
24:37
green screen in the studio. I'm there.
24:42
This is the best Doctor Who's ever looked.
24:44
Yeah. Oh, and I think the 5 minutes
24:47
that opens the day of the moon, that long time sequence on the
24:50
Weir and all of that. I think that might be as
24:53
cinematic as Doctor Who. Even the is as cinematic as it
24:57
ever. Goes it is cinematic.
24:59
It is almost bond like as you as you said before.
25:02
Now there's there is, I think there are a couple of little
25:06
plate shots in it because they shoot, they shoot a plate of
25:09
this for when they flash back to it in episode 12, don't they?
25:15
And it's quite obviously green screen and.
25:16
I think there is. There is one or two shots here
25:19
where it looks like maybe it was picked up in a.
25:22
In a studio later on because they've got the image.
25:27
Do you remember Doctor? He magazine at the time had four
25:29
different covers and. One of.
25:32
These will die, and it never, ever occurred to me that it
25:35
would be the Doctor. They do that with the.
25:37
Stolen Earth and Journey's end as well.
25:40
Somebody's going to die. Yeah, I mean, I I assumed it was
25:44
going to be Rory because that's what he does, right?
25:48
Well, he does the day of the. Movie, Of course.
25:53
Now I'll say this, they play this beautifully.
25:56
I don't believe it for a second, but they play it beautifully.
25:59
It does grip you in there, like you got no idea what's going on.
26:04
And it's all been beautifully smooth shops up until this
26:07
point. And then the moment the doctor
26:09
gets shot, it all goes handheld and wobbly.
26:11
It's. Great story.
26:15
Yeah, good sport. And the incongruity of the
26:21
spacesuit coming out of the Wolf Star?
26:23
That's that's so Moffett. That's Moffett a nutshell.
26:25
In it bringing 2 disparate elements together and saying
26:28
what accepts it all right? This before this we'd never seen
26:32
or heard about. It's like the Doctor all the
26:36
time, or the fake being shot mid regeneration and then that she
26:40
did so like this suddenly adds a threat to regeneration.
26:44
Yeah, yeah, it's. I mean, Moffett does build on
26:48
the law. I I I do love the, I just think
26:54
that space suit's so cool in the water.
26:56
But also have you seen the Big Finish cover where they've got
26:59
that space suit that would catch it try to do that, it just.
27:04
It's also it's it's one of his famous publicity photos you've
27:08
seen 1000 times and then just in that spacesuit and I.
27:12
Refuse to believe that Big Finish would be that cheap.
27:15
Oh wait I. Was just going to say that
27:18
spaceship that the fella in it, like was having a bit of trouble
27:20
getting back in the wall there? We're even shooting at herself
27:25
as well, this. Is my problem right?
27:27
Yeah. Is this fellow comes out the car
27:29
after this happens. Yeah.
27:31
It's my like we we're just constantly setting stuff up.
27:33
I'm just. I don't know.
27:35
But it's oh, yeah. Sorry.
27:37
Good. I just gonna say he is the
27:39
father of the God of the the guy who's playing the younger which.
27:44
Yeah. Mark Chef both yeah.
27:45
They're both actors. And that that's Mark Shepherd's
27:48
real dad did. You ever see Mark Shepherd in
27:49
Battlestar Glaxica? They did.
27:51
It was bloody brilliant in it. Excellent.
27:53
Wasn't he in that? Yeah.
27:55
I mean, he's good in this. He's very charming in this.
27:57
I'm I'm a bit sad that his character never comes back,
27:59
actually. Yeah, I am.
28:01
He is the the exact sort of character that should be coming
28:04
back. Yeah, you know, we revisit the.
28:07
Lesbian lizards Enough and unit. Fucking captain.
28:11
Avery comes back. Oh my God.
28:14
Do you remember we watched that? I was like, why are they
28:20
reminding us of all the shit episodes?
28:21
What's going on? But you know, I'm going to say
28:25
something very nice about Karen Gillan now, but it's also a bit
28:27
of a problem because she's so good.
28:30
She's such a good actress. She's so good at portraying pain
28:33
that sometimes it's very raw and a bit uncomfortable.
28:38
I think she's amazing, yeah. She's brilliant.
28:40
She's the best companion of Hands down.
28:43
She's you are in. Pain.
28:45
What is wrong with you? She's in my top five.
28:49
Definitely she's in my bomb 5 somewhere, no?
28:52
No. I'm sorry, good man.
28:56
Yeah, Do you know what, Weirdly as well, this feels like
28:59
yesterday, but I'm looking at her and even the way she's
29:02
dressed, I'm like, oh, you wouldn't see, you wouldn't see
29:04
people dressed like that now. And I know it's only like 10
29:06
years ago, but the way her hair is and the way maybe I've just
29:10
got used to seeing Hollywood's Karen Gillen, but you just
29:14
think. That is not how she would dress
29:17
now or a. Companion would be terribly,
29:19
doesn't it? Do you remember?
29:20
Like leather coats? Everyone was wearing the series.
29:22
Yes, Do you know? What I think when you see that
29:26
sort of. Play She's got one on, hasn't
29:28
it, Star? Wars Famous John Williams music
29:30
playing in the background. It does have a bit of a Star
29:35
Wars edge to it. I'll tell you what now, because
29:37
Naughty's fashions come. Back I keep seeing young, like
29:40
teenage girls dressed like Rose Tyler again.
29:42
It's really weird. It's just like in the Funky Fish
29:46
and like, back in. Belt bottom.
29:48
Got some hope then. I haven't bought any new clothes
29:50
since then. Just.
29:53
Now it's back around again. Thank God.
29:55
To to get to the beautiful subject of Time Lord law, the
30:01
Doctor regenerated the regeneration energy.
30:03
Coming out is a is an interesting beast, isn't it?
30:06
Because he is meant to be the the last one.
30:09
But then, is it explained because of the Tess elector?
30:11
Or is it explained because he's the timeless child we've got?
30:15
We've got so many explanations. Take your pick.
30:19
Because he gives rivers some generation and angels take
30:22
Manhattan as well, which he shouldn't really be able to do.
30:24
No, if he's the last. I hate it.
30:26
That's one of the many things I hate about Angels Take.
30:28
Manhattan that that scene on the stairs is the worst part of
30:31
Angels Take Manhattan where she slaps him and he and he gives
30:34
this a minute and it's just. Embarrass me, River.
30:36
You know there's some. People never see you get.
30:43
Your knock into a Stephen Moffier episode?
30:45
It would be absolute heresy, you know.
30:47
Well done, Luke. You've just lost us up, our
30:49
audience there already. No, it's it's not the time of
30:53
judge. I thought this was the best part
30:57
of the whole episode, where you realize he's invited himself to
31:01
his own day. It's just popped out to get his
31:04
fizzy straw. No, he's brilliant.
31:09
This is the fizzy straw. Reminds me so much of the
31:12
lemonade taps and all that nonsense from Widow and the
31:14
Wardrobe. Now something that struck me re
31:21
watching this as well is. I thought this was super
31:26
fast-paced Doctor Who at the time it felt like it was moving
31:29
at a speed. Having just watched Flux, this
31:32
feels more like classic Doctor Who than like because television
31:36
in general just got faster and faster and faster.
31:39
But so has Doctor Who and it is suddenly a lot more chilled than
31:45
I remember it. Being which makes it more?
31:48
Does it make it more palatable? What do you think?
31:53
The thing I thought, the weird thing I thought about the pacing
31:55
in this was the dramatic high point in this episode comes 10
32:00
minutes in. So everything after that is a
32:02
bit anticlimactic. Like, I know they try and they
32:05
bring the drama at the end with a shooting the kids and more on
32:08
that later. But I, I, I, I think the climax
32:13
of this story is basically the doctor dying.
32:16
And then it's just a load of mystery, sort of after that.
32:19
It's really oddly pacing. You've got scary monsters,
32:22
you've got all sorts of stuff. You get to meet a less popular
32:26
president for the US. There's loads of stuff going on.
32:29
I mean, I'll question if they are actually that scary, you
32:31
know, but we'll get what? No, they're terrifying.
32:35
I'm not particularly scared to talk to anyone.
32:37
I never particularly was. But they're a good monster,
32:40
aren't? They, I think in the second
32:41
episode where they glisten them up and have them in the dark and
32:44
they're being picked out by a torch light.
32:45
That's really when that one's standing there, brightly lit
32:48
toilet and it looks like a man in a rubber mask.
32:50
I'm going, well, you know. When you get a monster that can
32:53
do something a bit different, which they've got.
32:56
I think don't blink, don't walk into the shadows.
32:59
Yeah, but it doesn't matter if that's is like, yeah, you can,
33:03
you can really make that the derivative of his ideas, but.
33:07
Hideous console. The best console.
33:10
That is a terrible console. This is my favorite console.
33:15
What's wrong with you? Know what this console is?
33:19
This console is the 11th Doctor. It's trying so fucking hard to
33:22
be quirky. Not.
33:24
Being eccentric. It's it's so big.
33:27
It's so many places to go. It really feels like it goes on
33:30
and on and on and. Underneath it, Underneath.
33:34
It is pretty cool. They they built it into the
33:38
Torchwood set because they've blown the Torchwood set up.
33:41
And is it the beginning of the mirror?
33:45
Yeah. I'm about I've just bought a
33:49
Miracle Day on Blu-ray and I'm about to revisit for a.
33:52
Revisit do you know, I think and I've I'm patient and I've tried
33:57
to do Miracle Day two or three times in the past five years and
34:00
they always just seem to stop around episode 6 or 7.
34:03
So I just don't really have this.
34:05
Memory of how it ends, no, apart from a massive vagina.
34:09
But I find it vastly underrated Miracle Day.
34:13
I don't remember finding it bad and then I just stopped watching
34:17
it. It's got the most shocking
34:19
twist, so I can never remember. And I'm not gonna say cuz you
34:21
ain't seen it yet, Dylan, but the end of episode 5.
34:24
Formed three to this day, yeah. I haven't seen it since original
34:27
transmission and I cannot remember.
34:29
All I remember about it is there's a paedophile that
34:31
doesn't drive. It's that Celib on Spaceballs,
34:35
isn't it? But.
34:43
Console room, you know, reminds me, Maggie Facture designed the
34:46
console room. It would be very like grass,
34:47
Chrome, sort of 80s lighty. Thatcher Yeah, So you you screw
34:52
up with the the classic stage maybe.
34:55
Really So like. You saw you saying.
34:58
No. So you sort of used to the tar
35:00
that's being a bit more spaceshippy, like buttons and
35:03
consoles. There was I I seen the the Chris
35:06
Reckless and David said it one and this just felt like a
35:08
natural evolution, but bigger and better in quirkier.
35:12
So you must love the Jodie Whittaker bomb then, because.
35:15
Yes, not the dildo anything. Favorite console?
35:18
I'll have you know Luke Malloy? Is the TV Movie 1 the most
35:21
impressive of all? It's good, but it's not.
35:25
It's it's more of a church than it's all this console, isn't it?
35:28
Just of a conference room than a console.
35:32
Yeah, I mean, it does look like a weird exhibition center
35:35
somewhere, doesn't it? Convince my phantoms signing.
35:42
Yeah, I. The the weird thing about the TV
35:45
movie one, which I You're right, I love.
35:47
But I sit there and I look at those shelves full of books and
35:50
stuff like that and I get a bit with the the Capaldi one as
35:53
well. It's like the Tardis is always
35:55
spinning around and being hit by stuff.
35:56
I don't want anything on shelves in those rooms.
36:01
Like you know, when you like on boating holidays and things like
36:04
that, and you have to strap everything down.
36:05
That's what it should be like one thing time Lash had, right,
36:08
you know? It's bigger on the inside than
36:10
now. It must have stabilizers in
36:12
there somewhere. Yeah, true.
36:13
Really true. But you know, it's always
36:16
shaking it. Can we address River Song,
36:19
please? And just how ghastly that
36:21
character is? You want to undress River Song?
36:24
Address. Because that's in the Series 6
36:28
trade there. I don't mean that.
36:30
I don't think she's ghastly. I think she started really
36:33
strong. I think she ended really strong.
36:35
I think we got a bit of River Song fatigue somewhere in the
36:38
middle. You know, one of these people
36:40
that think. She's crapped on TV, but she's
36:43
brilliant and big Finnish. Are you?
36:44
You're not one of those. No.
36:47
Well, she's just a generic strong fever.
36:50
Very boring, actually. A big Finnish story.
36:52
Yeah, she's just the Doctor, but with a different voice.
36:57
I just think maybe the show was a little bit obsessed with her
36:59
for a couple of seasons and it got a bit wearying.
37:02
Do you know what? I don't mind her being there.
37:04
I think she's a great character. I love the chemistry she has
37:07
with Matt Smith. It's slightly uncomfortable in a
37:09
fantastic way, but I I think the thing that pisses me off is
37:15
about her constantly going, oh, I've got a secret.
37:18
It's like just fucking tell her. Yeah, it just gets a bit tired.
37:22
Yeah, I think she's really. River Song spends half her time
37:26
talking in inscrutables. Talks like that, Do they?
37:30
But it's a bit like, what were you saying about this service as
37:34
a whole? As soon as you starts answers
37:35
about her, as soon as you get to the Let's Kill Hitler in the
37:38
window of songs, it just becomes a little bit insufferable.
37:41
And then when you go back to it, just being in a story like The
37:44
Angels Take Manhattan, I know what we've just said.
37:47
The dynamic name just take my hand, it's so much better.
37:50
Because I know someone did it on YouTube.
37:51
Has anyone ever tried to watch her stories in?
37:53
Yeah, I've done it. Me and Chris did it in a day.
37:58
I've got, I've got it on my WordPress.
38:00
The order. Yeah, we had to.
38:03
We had to watch A good Man Goes to War or bits of it three
38:06
different times because she. Because she's the.
38:10
Baby. And then she's at the fair, and
38:12
then she turns up at the end. How did it fare?
38:16
Chris was like like oh this is a revelation.
38:19
This is you can really see a characters about.
38:21
I don't think it's quite that. I think it's a bit garbled, but
38:25
it's an interesting thing. You don't want to.
38:27
I found it just about. It almost is like watching a new
38:30
series of Doctor Who because you've got a new series opener,
38:33
a new finale and that it's that in itself is interesting.
38:38
It's like season 6B hidden within season six, 5-6 and
38:43
seven. Where do we end with her then?
38:45
Is it? Name of the Doctor.
38:49
Yeah. Is that our final?
38:50
Is that after she's dead? Yeah.
38:53
Because I was never sure about that.
38:54
It's when they've all gone in that weird space, isn't it?
38:56
It's all a bit trippy. Yeah, she's been like dream
38:59
lunch from the from the library computer.
39:02
Right. I don't think I ever picked up
39:04
on that. Just me saying she's
39:06
intolerable. I do like this bit though, you
39:08
know, when she can pilot and do everything with the TARDIS and
39:10
he's really shit. Yeah, he goes.
39:12
Did you do something? She's like, no, I was just
39:14
watching you, sweetie. I was one of the fans.
39:19
It was furious about being in time of angels.
39:23
The brakes line, the brakes on, It's furious.
39:28
It's a great line, but you cannot reconcile it with.
39:32
You know, the history of the thing and all other targets.
39:35
It's the sort of thing, John, they can turn in and put in the
39:37
newspaper in 86 and just get that's.
39:40
Right. He just had to say, look, I was
39:43
doing it on purpose all this time, all right?
39:45
Now I love this, this moment where he sneaks into the Oval
39:49
Office. Yeah, and I love that we we're
39:51
seeing a lesser talks about U.S. President as well, you know?
39:56
Is there a reason for that? It was a bit of he did some
40:00
dodgy things, but then most of them did.
40:01
Right. Isn't it just because it's set
40:03
in 1969? Exactly.
40:06
But you didn't have to include the president.
40:10
That's true. Our biggest issue with Nixon in
40:12
this is that I'll keep seeing Adam clouds from Jonathan Creek
40:16
every time. Yes, he's really good though.
40:21
What is Adam Klaus or? Is it?
40:22
No. Well, it's both, but I think
40:23
he's really good as Nixon. I do like it, but I don't like
40:27
Murray Cole. So every time he plays that,
40:28
every time he walks in the room because you know what?
40:34
There's a bitting day on the moon where you've got Amy being
40:37
menaced in the orphanage and then it goes to Nixon and his
40:40
comedy music, and then it's Amy. I'm like, this is a bit jarring
40:45
there. Comedy, horror.
40:47
What am I watching? So I got a minor grind here.
40:52
I hate the tallest being invisible.
40:54
I just. I think it's brilliant.
40:55
I hate it. I think I hate invisibility in
40:59
general. When when Capaldi gets out
41:01
watching The Caretaker, I'm like, what the fuck?
41:04
Why have you not used this in every other adventure?
41:07
It just winds me up. I guess it does beg the
41:10
question, why not just always materialize invisible, yes?
41:16
Why have a chameleon circuit if it's invisible?
41:19
Yeah, I know we've seen it in the.
41:20
Invasion. About in the invasion, And
41:22
that's. It.
41:23
I know we've seen it in The Invasion, but that's fine.
41:25
It's a gag, isn't it? But it's actually being used.
41:29
For what reasons? It.
41:30
What I don't like is his lines here about the phase and the
41:33
charge. Brilliant.
41:37
I get it. You're quirky.
41:38
Move on. Street maps to Florida.
41:41
It's the sort of thing people point out Chibnel and say.
41:45
Oh, he's making Jody Whitaker say quirky things all the time,
41:47
whereas it's 10 times. I thought this before when when
41:51
I put that comment on the chat, I hate that bit in Spy for when
41:57
she says snap. I think it's the worst joke.
42:00
It's just it's not funny and it's just it sums up all the
42:04
cringe that I have with her and the character.
42:08
And I realized that this is the identical of that and I love it.
42:14
I like that. You know, sometimes you just get
42:16
to accept it. You're a hypocrite.
42:17
I think we're both Chibnil and Moffett, right?
42:19
And I think Moffett's a funnier writer than Chibnil.
42:22
Oh, he's a comedy writer, isn't he?
42:25
Essentially. Chibnil's comedy is based around
42:28
like the smallest bits of a human language I.
42:32
If you come in one more time, all right, no, I'll get my best
42:39
laugh ever when she goes. How Long's a rail?
42:42
I love that so much. You're all mooming beings in the
42:48
Ghost. Come on, it's not good.
42:53
It's. Just not told him.
42:55
Oh no, but that is awful. It's nothing to do with me.
43:02
I didn't write it right. I think Canton fancies the dog,
43:09
so you know. It's going up.
43:11
He's getting married. You can still fancy other
43:14
people. Oh, good point.
43:16
What do you think? I'm here to know it cause.
43:18
The Moffett characters. When they fancy people, they
43:21
want to fuck them the night before the marriage.
43:22
So you. Have to do this.
43:26
It's like you're trying to annoy me.
43:29
What? She could do no wrong.
43:31
I hate that scene so much and I love that too far.
43:35
Also, maybe that maybe they've got an open relationship, or
43:38
maybe they've got a deal that she could go and have one last
43:41
fling with her imaginary. Friend some sort of open
43:44
relationship if she was a kisstogram and they were
43:46
together. Yeah, she wasn't a kissogram.
43:48
She was a prostitute, that's what.
43:51
I'm just saying I'm just on the Doctor Who Transcript website
43:55
and it doesn't say prostitute. No, but it's inferred kissograms
43:59
don't exist anymore. You're paying someone to come
44:02
around to your house and give you a kiss.
44:03
They're doing a lot more than giving you a kiss.
44:08
In lead word. In a.
44:12
Very small village. Our.
44:17
First glimpse of the silence there.
44:19
Oh no, it wasn't. That was back on the beach,
44:21
wasn't it? The worst thing about the
44:23
Silence, and I'm glad none of us have done it yet, is the joke
44:26
everyone makes about the Silence, about forgetting that
44:29
they've seen them. You know, just like generally
44:31
the BBC Twitter account makes them and stuff like that.
44:33
Oh, did you see that? I can't remember what we did
44:36
there. Sorry.
44:40
Much can say the biggest issue I have with the silences, how do
44:42
they do with the little buttons with those massive fat?
44:45
Fingers. And they're always wearing
44:48
perfectly buttoned suits. But I guess they just influence
44:52
humans to put their their shirts on, pull them.
44:57
I think the biggest issue I have with The Silence is how they
44:59
completely rewrite them in time with the Doctor and suddenly
45:02
they're all priests. And now that was just an evil
45:06
faction of the Silence of doing their own quirky.
45:08
I don't mind that. That's something Moffett does,
45:10
isn't it? He retools monsters so that
45:13
they're interested again, even if it if you start comparing it
45:18
to the original appearance, it might be to the detriment.
45:22
I I thought this thing here, though, right where the woman
45:25
walks in. And sees it and then says the
45:29
same lines again. It's so economically gets across
45:33
what they're about, and Moffett does that brilliantly.
45:36
This whole script I think is the most economical Moffett script.
45:40
It might not be the best or my most favorite, but in what
45:43
respect? In the respect that is balanced
45:46
in the beginning of the story arc, these brand new monsters?
45:50
The whole America thing, A main cast of 4/5?
45:56
Well, you're full like and they're all equal and they've
45:59
all got their own stories going on.
46:02
It's there's so much going on. It's very clear what's going on
46:07
and it's it's a ride. It's absolutely hoop the whole
46:10
way. I think you're right.
46:11
Like one of the things we say a lot about the Chipmel era is
46:15
inevitably when there's four people in the TARDIS to another
46:17
doing fuck all. And the you never really get a
46:21
sense of that during this season when you've got the four
46:24
companions. Yeah, but that there's something
46:28
to be said about because River Song pops in and out that is
46:33
that's how you balance it because you then then it's like
46:36
oh River songs back. And I think someone said years
46:39
ago if Yaz had like maybe not come aboard instantly and then
46:45
come aboard in the records in the UK, you would have had like
46:48
then three episodes for Ryan and Graham to build.
46:50
And they like oh Yaz is joined now and that's the new thing and
46:53
it's just it would have been just a better balance.
46:56
Yeah. No, I think you're right.
46:58
I mean to be facetious, but you know when those silent scream,
47:02
their mouths do look like an old man's asshole.
47:04
Didn't. They.
47:05
They. Do fuck her up, lads, Yeah.
47:11
See, I think I thought that looked like a lot of latex
47:14
there. Whereas I think in the next
47:15
episode when they bring the lights down and they glisten
47:18
them up a bit and you know, when they're sort of or is it the end
47:21
of this episode when Rivers exploring?
47:24
Yeah, they they do the same with the Slatheen, don't they?
47:27
And boom, town, you're suddenly like, oh, they that's a.
47:29
Lot of Latex, Dylan. It's a lot of latex, but they
47:33
just they're wet, aren't they? Or I was about to say she's wet,
47:36
but. Don't think of a net bad line
47:40
wet. We won't sleep tonight.
47:46
That's up, baby. That episode, so much.
47:51
Wow, we're talking about that. And, you know, props to them.
47:58
Like, let's remember the first time Doctor Who went to America,
48:02
and the second The Chase and the Gunfighters, where there was
48:04
nary an American actor in it. Dreadful accents where you can't
48:09
really get away with that now it it feels authentically America,
48:12
even though this is all shot hard if.
48:14
Yeah, I mean, look what they did in Daleks in Manhattan like.
48:18
It just. Yells on an H sweetie.
48:23
It's. No funny business.
48:27
What do you? Mean creatures?
48:32
Please make your point if. You were going to invade
48:35
someone. My God, it has to be New York.
48:43
It's why they'll never bring Perry back in the new series,
48:45
cuz you can't put that accent on BBC One.
48:51
We live in a time they brought. Ace back.
48:53
They brought Tegan back, They bought Mel.
48:54
Jesus, it's gonna. At least Bonnie Langford.
48:58
Has gotten an acting credit in the last 10 years.
49:02
She's going to be a revelation. I can't.
49:04
She's going to be amazing. Everyone's been a bloody lover.
49:07
The thing about the thing that makes sense about metal is that
49:11
she's effectively a blank slate, isn't she?
49:13
You can you can create a character there whilst making
49:16
fans happy. Yeah, we can.
49:18
We can frochet a Big Finish and boy do I, despite the fact I've
49:21
got a podcast about it. But she's effectively honed that
49:24
role in Big Finish. Yeah.
49:27
Sorry, nothing at all to do with the impossible Astro.
49:30
But I mean melting the zeitgeist right now, which is weird things
49:34
to. Say I've beaten the MEEP.
49:38
I thought Doctor Who was going to die at the service.
49:41
Rusty Davis plays it safe. Beat the Meep.
49:45
No, I do agree though, RTD had to play it safe, didn't it, in
49:48
the first couple of years to get it.
49:50
And it wasn't just a case of getting the zeitgeist.
49:53
I think it was just a case of money and budget and getting it
49:55
done. Whereas now it doesn't have that
49:58
problem, so it. Really interesting.
50:00
Just bring back Bonnie Lang. And beat the V.
50:06
Justice for Sarah. And Kate, let's not forget.
50:09
Oh God, I mean. I don't have Catherine Tate and
50:11
Bonnie Langford in one scene and have some fabulous ginger joke.
50:14
You know, I'm surrounded by gingers and I've never been a
50:17
ginger or something like that. Yeah.
50:18
It's coming. I don't know what you can see in
50:20
the background, but I've got my Mel Dapple figure just there.
50:24
Is it the blue one or the pink one?
50:26
It's the blue one, but I'm going to get the pink one as well
50:30
because apparently I collect figures from the 1980s now.
50:34
A pink one, you know. Used to have fabulous adventures
50:36
out in my garden. You know, the daisies of death
50:38
and things like that. She's.
50:41
Also, mine lost her wig when I was a kid so I had a bold Mel,
50:47
but you know she could double for mindwarp.
50:51
That is scarier than the Silents could ever be.
50:56
Now what do we think of this whole child in a spacesuit,
51:02
which sounds like a Smith song? Because there's no context to
51:09
any of it, I'll just I'm not quite sure what to feel about
51:11
any of it. I I it's another random element
51:15
in a. Yeah, I am.
51:17
So it's it's cool as an image in a concept I think, but like.
51:22
Yeah, she said at the beginning. Just don't think about it any
51:25
longer than that. But I think it's, I think it's
51:29
the cliffhangers really well teed up because this spacesuit
51:33
shows up at the end with this child in it.
51:36
And Amy's so distraught. She's just like, she's not
51:38
thinking it's a kid. She's just like, that's going to
51:40
kill the Doctor on the. I think it's it's it's it's a
51:43
really good setup. It's made funnier in time, yeah,
51:47
when you realize she's shooting her baby.
51:51
I think Stephen Moffett's kids watching this season, with all
51:54
these kids being killed off, should be a bit scared.
51:58
He has. He does have a bit of a habit of
52:01
doing it this year, don't he? Is it exactly.
52:04
There's a habit of just parents and children, isn't there?
52:08
You've got Avery and and his son and you've got like, night
52:11
terrors and we don't. Talk about night terrors, those.
52:19
Peg dolls in the trailers and stuff.
52:21
I was like, oh, that's going to be a good.
52:23
And then you know it's a night terrors and you're like, what's
52:26
this about love saves the day again.
52:29
So I. Yeah, it's it's shy.
52:35
Sharp terrors as it's more common than.
52:40
So I wonder if you gentlemen could care to maybe explain the
52:44
plot of series 6 to me then? So effectively River Song, yeah,
52:48
as a child. Is taken by Madam Kavarian.
52:54
Is that right? Yeah.
52:55
And trained to be an assassin to murder the Doctor.
52:59
She's like, brainwashed, yeah. Yeah.
53:02
And she she put in that astronaut suit.
53:04
Well, the brainwashing fails and let's kill it there and she
53:09
becomes like normal again. Then she goes to Luna
53:12
University, but then. It's still in there anyway.
53:16
Yeah, because because there's a fixed point or something, they
53:20
shove her in the space seat. But the space, it's automatic.
53:25
So they don't particularly need an assassin, but we forget that
53:27
bit. The child's in there is life
53:29
support, right? Yes.
53:33
And it's like to use your per Time Lord energy as it were, I
53:36
think. Oh, this is all the doing of
53:38
Madame Cavarian and the Silence, yeah.
53:40
Yeah, to stop the doctor reaching Chancellor.
53:44
Yeah. Yes.
53:46
I don't know if they ever really talk about that much in the
53:48
season. No, I don't see.
53:51
No, but he did. He did.
53:54
Moffitt did say that the plan was always the 11th Doctor is
53:58
fighting a battle. That's all that he he's been
54:02
blamed for a battle that he he fought fights in the future,
54:06
essentially. That's very confused.
54:10
You want to see my male action figure again?
54:14
With detachable. Hurt.
54:18
You wouldn't be the first man to offer me his male action figure,
54:20
you. Know did we miss we've missed
54:24
the river saying I'm quite the screamer.
54:26
There's a spoiler for you, which even for a Moffett line, is
54:29
quite on on the like edge of the watershed, surely.
54:34
Yeah. Do you remember what you said in
54:37
So I'll go completely away from this now but in Let's Kill
54:40
Hitler if only set up males as a character earlier that that
54:44
would all make sense if she'd appeared at the wedding and.
54:47
I think people would remember it better.
54:48
But he did do that in serious life, because you remember in
54:51
Tyler Angels and Flesh and Stone when he had Matt Smith turn up
54:54
the older Matt the end of the season.
54:56
So we can't do that sort of thing.
54:58
Yeah, But that's. Two 2-3 years.
55:00
Yeah, I think that's the difference.
55:02
And I think with each successive season he's got less time and in
55:05
Series 7 he's doing this and Sherlock he's got no time at
55:09
all. And I mean, it's not too
55:14
dissimilar from Bernard Cribbins not being in The Runaway Bride.
55:19
No it's not. It's more just those thing of
55:22
like. If she had been there.
55:24
It does feel so random and let's go here now.
55:27
Yeah, it it does feel a bit more.
55:30
I think it's because you get, you don't get like a 5 minute
55:33
scene at the beginning of part that's in Crime of Wolf growing
55:36
up establishing himself as the paperman from Voyage at the
55:40
time. Do you?
55:42
Know where, when Let's Go Hitler started.
55:47
I wasn't thinking, oh, Mels is going to turn out to be River
55:50
Song at all. No.
55:53
Or me. It was just when it was revealed
55:56
I had more questions than I did satisfactory answers, Which is
56:00
series 6IN general, yeah, if only we, we could sort of divert
56:04
that post van from delivering the Time Traveller's Wife to
56:07
Stephen Moffett's house that day.
56:09
He could have done without any of this, couldn't we?
56:12
I wonder what he'd write about. A Doctor Who would be so much
56:15
worse for it, if that. You, you open my eyes to that.
56:19
Whereas I've always sort of have been quite hard in all of this.
56:22
But you're right. If he hadn't gone down and maybe
56:26
some of it didn't work, you know?
56:28
But he tried and he was ambitious and I really admire
56:31
him for that and that some of those episodes in there, it's as
56:34
bold as Doctor Who's ever been. Yeah, I mean, you know, he had
56:38
to do something different to Russell T Davis as well.
56:41
And I think Series 5, especially with the format and stuff, is
56:44
still sort of quite like an RTD series.
56:47
This is the first one where it's like, right, I've got the
56:50
confidence now. I've got the backing now here's
56:53
Moffett. See.
56:54
I think they just all the the trade off is and I don't think
56:57
it was detrimental to the survival of the show is he did
57:01
lose a portion of his audience because of it.
57:04
Yeah, but whether that's just the audience getting bored with
57:07
a show that's been on for so long.
57:09
Well, we'll see when the 60th hits if those numbers can come
57:12
up again. I don't.
57:13
They will come up for that. They will, but I don't think by
57:16
much. I think they'll go up by a
57:17
million and if there's if there's a really big like climax
57:21
to those specials, you might see a couple more.
57:23
But I don't. I don't see Doctor Who's ratings
57:26
game back to over sort of 6 or 7,000,000 again.
57:29
Oh no. And I think, like, I don't
57:31
think, yeah, they think that'll happen with the 60th and then
57:34
the sheet is going to be lower than the 60th, I would imagine.
57:38
It depends on what metric we're then rating it by, because who
57:41
knows. I mean we're we're rating it by
57:43
whether Disney Plus cancel it and write it off against taxes.
57:46
I think at the moment if we if we can't get a DVD box out of it
57:51
and it's not on any streamers, you'll know the.
57:54
Churches and my. Grade Whatever happens, those
57:58
people will be there, pressing refresh on the Sunday moment
58:01
when the ratings are coming in, ready to bash their keyboards
58:04
and go. Doctor Who is doomed.
58:08
Thing about the spaceship in the lodger in this.
58:12
It's all tied up together. Yeah, because they get because
58:16
they. You remember that, though?
58:21
Does it matter? It's just a random spaceship
58:24
that you don't know. And if you do know, it's a cool
58:26
connection. The signs get booted off the
58:30
planet here, and then there's just one leftover above James
58:33
Corden's flag. People, stop being logical,
58:34
please. I like them.
58:38
And it's a cool design, you know?
58:39
It's a bit hard to see it's. I saw some concept designs of a
58:43
TARDIS that would have been in the 90s that looks a bit like
58:45
that console. Yeah, yeah, I know what you
58:47
mean. And one with the thing coming
58:49
down from the ceiling. Yeah, Mike Tucker's design.
58:53
Will we ever get Spider Daleks one day?
58:56
I reckon. I reckon it's inevitable.
58:58
Even though they're shit, it's inevitable.
59:01
I mean, can I do spoilers for what they're filming at the
59:04
moment? Of course.
59:06
There's this whole thing. I mean, it was trending on
59:08
Twitter the other day that they were saying, and this is where
59:10
the Daleks are going to come in. So they're obviously CGI Daleks.
59:13
So I'm going, if it's not the props, what is it?
59:16
CGI. Spider Daleks.
59:19
Nail and shooty on a moped running away from I mean.
59:23
I did see that, yeah. Yeah.
59:25
Oh well, lastly, they put it up. Didn't.
59:27
They of course. It's an orange moped as well,
59:29
right? I do think it's a cool.
59:35
Thing I know we're like this is 10 minutes ago, but the phone
59:39
call with it being Jefferson Hamilton and you think that's
59:44
the the kids name but it's actually the only place in
59:47
Florida we see that's clever. That's typical moffet
59:50
cleverness. Yeah.
59:52
But somewhat less cool, I thought, was the kid on the
59:55
phone, because I was just getting echoes of the empty
59:58
child and then going well. I wish I was watching that.
1:00:03
It's not. It's not similar though, is it?
1:00:05
It's just a kid. On the phone, the idea is
1:00:07
exactly the same. You got a kid on the end of the
1:00:08
phone. It's just a kid on a phone,
1:00:10
though. Yeah, kids use phones.
1:00:15
You know what? I don't think they do anymore.
1:00:17
They use mobile phones, but I don't think they make cool.
1:00:19
But this is 1969. Oh, OK, fair enough.
1:00:22
Fair enough. I do like I'm melodramatic, This
1:00:26
cliffhanger. It's like this brilliant, this
1:00:28
slow mode. Everything is your life.
1:00:33
I think this is very well shot because I when I first watched
1:00:36
it, I was it ended and I went what happened?
1:00:42
Then I realized what happened and I went, oh, that's ghastly.
1:00:45
She just murdered a child do. You think the episode was
1:00:48
overrunning. So they were just like, we need
1:00:50
to under running, we just need to slow down this bit.
1:00:55
Possibly Very. Yeah.
1:00:58
Look, here we go. He's slightly.
1:01:05
Confused, I mean. In fact, the music was great in
1:01:07
this hot. Oh God, yeah.
1:01:09
I mean, you've got that, obviously.
1:01:11
You've got the, the theme of the 11th Doctor, that the.
1:01:16
American one that. That was great.
1:01:21
It's. I mean, it's prime time, BBC One
1:01:24
of the Murdering kids as a finger.
1:01:27
What? What do you want from your
1:01:28
doctor? Her.
1:01:28
And he does it again in Series 9, and actually one of the
1:01:31
favorite series. Yeah, it's true.
1:01:34
I just like to see kids get murdered and Doctor.
1:01:36
Very, very. Good, guys.
1:01:38
Our question if we should be going there, but maybe that's a
1:01:41
conversation. Do you just like, do you like
1:01:44
serieses that start with finales?
1:01:46
Because that's basically what, 69 and 13 all day?
1:01:50
I I I think I like big openers, and I like big openers, not
1:01:57
openings. Come on.
1:02:01
Oh, you say it last week, all right.
1:02:04
And I like interconnected plots. I'd really I'm bored of Doctor
1:02:09
Who as an anthology series, and I know we're not going that way,
1:02:13
but I just. I just don't want Doctor Who to
1:02:15
be a monster of the week. I'm not into it.
1:02:19
But this is still like season six is still anthology, isn't
1:02:22
it? Yeah, but it's it's there's
1:02:26
enough running through it to keep me going, basically.
1:02:30
Is there some sort of middle ground that would just you just
1:02:33
prefer it to be? I want it to be Flux, but Flux
1:02:37
is still slightly anthology. Yeah, I mean, you can do.
1:02:41
I'm not saying that it should all be set in one place at one
1:02:44
time. But no, no, I just want.
1:02:47
I just want a continuing story. But flux like you've got the two
1:02:50
ends of the spectrum of like War of the Sun torrents, which I
1:02:53
think it's the balance, right and Once Upon time which is?
1:02:58
Water flux like an influx. Survivors in the Flux and the
1:03:03
Vanquishers. That's all flux.
1:03:05
Yeah, yeah. But that's the finality.
1:03:07
So it's sort of like. I'm not in charge of Doctor Who,
1:03:11
so you don't have to worry. He's got some bold ideas if he
1:03:14
is, though. I take the agree with the one
1:03:17
about like if we were to DEFLUX we might as well have made it
1:03:20
worth something. So a raise in the original
1:03:23
universe would have solved every fans like.
1:03:27
Nightmare every time something, anything, happens in the dark,
1:03:32
the universe. If you goes back and see
1:03:34
Shakespeare, you don't have to think about the Shakespeare code
1:03:37
or all the other Big Finish plays or anything, because it
1:03:40
would have been a new universe. This is the new.
1:03:41
Universe where things are just a bit off.
1:03:43
So yeah, I would have. Much preferred.
1:03:45
That. I also just can't take.
1:03:49
Like with any credibility, earth being invaded and people being
1:03:52
surprised anymore because it gets invaded about once a month.
1:03:56
And this time they were like, you remember that, you know, the
1:03:58
spaceship over in Big Bend and all.
1:04:00
Of this. I did one thing, you know, you
1:04:03
said about you like a condensed star.
1:04:05
So I started thinking, like, how will this play out if it was the
1:04:08
Impossible Astronaut Day of the Moon?
1:04:10
A good man goes to war. Let's kill Hitler.
1:04:13
And the wedding of River Sol. And that was the season.
1:04:17
You have to have the gang or two parter in there.
1:04:21
Condensed into one part. We'll make it 6 episodes, like
1:04:26
the flat or seven. I love that.
1:04:29
And I remembered what I thought of all those episodes and I just
1:04:31
thought, no, that sounds absolutely ghastly.
1:04:34
I like it. It's not.
1:04:35
It's not as bad or as as boring as people say It's it's
1:04:39
perfectly watchable. Nice Doctor Who.
1:04:42
Yeah, the gang is the great, the gang the one.
1:04:44
The two-part are the almost people.
1:04:46
Oh, you're mad, the pair. Great.
1:04:49
Great TV series. There's one thing that's
1:04:51
extremely refreshing about this two-part though is that they
1:04:54
actually, there's a bit of light in it because you watch the rest
1:04:57
of this half of the season. No, no, I mean but in terms.
1:05:00
No. It's so dark.
1:05:03
So it puts me off getting the DVD off the shelf or putting an
1:05:06
episode on because I just think it's so dark apart from, yeah, I
1:05:09
should say this one. Which is the opposite.
1:05:12
Sorry got it I. Was just going to say that's why
1:05:13
they moved Night Terrors. It was supposed to be in an
1:05:16
earlier slot and they moved it to the second part of the season
1:05:19
because they were like, there's too much darkness and.
1:05:21
Yeah, but these short certificates and black.
1:05:24
Spots. That's annoying.
1:05:25
That's all set annoying. It is, isn't it?
1:05:28
I suppose that's weird. That's very weird.
1:05:32
Oh well. Terrible choice anyway.
1:05:35
A bad episode with a bad episode.
1:05:37
I always think I've always thought, well, no, in my
1:05:40
teenagers, if I was to do a story, I could do like him.
1:05:44
He loses the TARDIS at the beginning and he, you know, he
1:05:47
has to go find it. And then I realized that that's
1:05:49
all the Divergent universes and it's very hokey.
1:05:53
And actually there's a place in Doctor Who for just having a
1:05:56
little seed in the TARDIS every episode.
1:06:00
I I've always thought what they did in the the BBC books where
1:06:03
the Doctor has to the the Tarbis is out of play or whatever, and
1:06:07
the Doctor has to live through hundreds and hundreds of years
1:06:10
in a linear fashion and you just pop in every sort of 100 years
1:06:14
to work. That sounds great.
1:06:16
It was 6 books set throughout the 20th century and it worked
1:06:21
amazingly well. I've always had the idea of
1:06:24
jumper we have in a cottage. I'll teach, yeah.
1:06:32
Cottaging was all the rage in the 70s.
1:06:35
I can't think of Annette Badland wet and John Pertley cottaging
1:06:38
in my past. All right, Jesus Christ.
1:06:43
And on that note, shall we skipping today at the moon.
1:06:47
Let's do it. Let me get it.
1:06:49
We're ready. Before we do that, can I go grab
1:06:52
another? Drink.
1:06:53
Yes, I'm doing the same. Thing.
1:06:55
Exactly. All right, I'll see you in a
1:06:56
second. Back in the.
1:06:58
Moment that was so much fun. Thanks guys.