Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Paul Dunn about his choice of Revenge of the Cybermen (4/4)

Transcript

Talks to Paul Dunn about his choice of Revenge of the Cybermen (4/4) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:36
  Welcome back to a hamster with a blunt pen Knife, the Doctor Who
• 0:40
  Podcast. We're looking at episode 4 of
• 0:44
  Revenge the Sidemen. My name is Paul.
• 0:46
  And also with me is the host of this wonderful podcast, the
• 0:51
  legend that is Mr. J Ford. Infamous more like listen to how
• 0:57
  confident you sound now compared to episode 2.
• 1:00
  You can tell you've been at this for an hour and a half.
• 1:02
  I know I I'm well oiled up now so I'm good to go.
• 1:05
  I'm. I'm going to brandish something
• 1:08
  for you now that somebody posted up.
• 1:11
  Yeah, so sorry. On.
• 1:13
  On blue Sky and it's from people.
• 1:16
  Pete Yeah. And.
• 1:17
  He says good luck, Mr. Dunn. And then?
• 1:20
  Well, if you could just explain the little video he's made for
• 1:23
  you. Are you ready?
• 1:25
  OK, Oh, it's, it's a little model Sarah Jane being attacked
• 1:35
  by a cyber map. Oh, that's.
• 1:38
  Wonderful. I assume it's a cyber.
• 1:40
  Map. Oh well, I mean, let's have
• 1:43
  another look. I mean, he's even added music
• 1:45
  and sound effects. Well, I'm actually very
• 1:49
  impressed with that. Thank you.
• 1:51
  Very good, isn't it? I'll post the clip when the
• 1:54
  episode goes out, yeah. But because we've got so many, I
• 1:58
  am going to hit you with a question now.
• 2:00
  Yeah. Are you ready?
• 2:01
  So. John Arnold.
• 2:02
  Lovely John. Arnold Johnny's wonderful, yes.
• 2:05
  Given how the Cybermen have largely been camp strong men
• 2:09
  since it's. Christopher Robbie's performance
• 2:13
  quietly. One of the most influential in
• 2:16
  the series. I think it is.
• 2:18
  I'm not sure it's influential in the right way, but it is
• 2:20
  influential. Unforgettable.
• 2:23
  More like. I mean, I, I love seeing him
• 2:26
  with his hands on his hips. It gives me a bit of a frill.
• 2:28
  Oh. Now sigh heart.
• 2:31
  Oh. Yes.
• 2:32
  Is Michael O'Brien one of the greatest directions of the show?
• 2:37
  I think that might be a leading question.
• 2:38
  There. And how would you write him?
• 2:42
  OK, Well, he's not OK. I think he's a good, competent
• 2:46
  director. He's not Douglas Canfield and
• 2:49
  he's not Graham Harper. But then he isn't Richard Martin
• 2:52
  or Pennant. Robert Siever, is it?
• 2:54
  So. Oh my.
• 2:55
  God, so much ranking tonight. So I, I think he's middling.
• 2:59
  I mean, yeah. I mean, as you said, his The
• 3:03
  Robots of Death is, is a fantastic piece.
• 3:07
  His location stuff's really good.
• 3:10
  I mean, he did the green Death, didn't he?
• 3:11
  That's really. That's really good.
• 3:14
  Yeah. So he's more often better than
• 3:16
  not. Colony in space.
• 3:20
  Yeah, well, I mean, was that his first?
• 3:23
  That was his first go, wasn't it?
• 3:24
  So he didn't really know how the TARDIS landed, did he?
• 3:27
  Nobody told him. So it different appears pops
• 3:29
  into. Existence doesn't.
• 3:30
  It. Yeah, yeah.
• 3:33
  Well, I will do more questions. But he's a lovely man if you see
• 3:36
  him at convention. Oh, he's very, yeah, really
• 3:39
  interesting. So yeah.
• 3:40
  Apparently he sat down with Sia and his mates at the last one
• 3:44
  for like 3. Hours.
• 3:45
  Oh, brilliant. Oh, lovely.
• 3:47
  They were plying him with drinks, you know.
• 3:49
  Oh wow, there you go. Did they get any gossip from
• 3:51
  him? That's the question.
• 3:52
  I don't think so, but he might have had a bit of news about the
• 3:54
  latest Blake 7 box sets, but beyond that, not really.
• 3:59
  Oh, right. OK.
• 4:00
  I'd have been asking him all the big questions, you know, who was
• 4:02
  Katie Manning sleeping with? Things like that, yeah.
• 4:05
  Yeah, yeah, the rumour is true. What rumours?
• 4:09
  Oh. I'm not going to say.
• 4:12
  Yours bad as still a race. You are great.
• 4:16
  Well. Should I count us in?
• 4:18
  But that'll be good. OK, we'll go into the the
• 4:22
  climactic last episode. And it is a classic.
• 4:26
  With the revolving planet in 321, off we go.
• 4:34
  And we're off. Oh look, Daniel Romsley here
• 4:39
  asks, right? Studio environments are a
• 4:42
  Cyberman's best friend. Yay or nay?
• 4:46
  Or can they be just as threatening and intimidating on
• 4:50
  location? I think they're more
• 4:53
  intimidating on location because if you look at the invasion when
• 4:57
  they're coming down the steps of Saint Paul's or down or OK, I'll
• 5:02
  try being an example or even this in the caves here where
• 5:06
  it's lit darkly and they glimmer in the.
• 5:09
  The Slake Quarry in the Five Doctors.
• 5:13
  Yeah, I think, I think they were pale there with mist.
• 5:15
  With all the mist, yeah, I think even in is it Telos in attack at
• 5:21
  the side? Oh, right, yes, in the sandpit.
• 5:23
  Because they've sort of treated that a bit as well, haven't
• 5:25
  they, to make it look really sort of grey and.
• 5:27
  I think they look more artificial in the studio, but
• 5:31
  just because it's on video. Yeah, yeah, I think so.
• 5:34
  I think they look more sort of natural.
• 5:36
  All right, Paul, would you do me a favour?
• 5:39
  Now come on, let's do the dialogue for.
• 5:41
  This all right? OK, I'll be Harry, you be the
• 5:44
  doctor all. Right.
• 5:45
  OK, Yeah. I don't think we're quite there
• 5:47
  yet, are we? No.
• 5:48
  No, probably hunts. Harry, don't touch it.
• 5:54
  Open that buckle. He'll be blown.
• 5:55
  To Kingdom come. You mean it's booby trapped?
• 6:00
  Here we go. Here we go.
• 6:01
  Right. You're the doctor.
• 6:07
  Naturally. Did you make the rocks fall,
• 6:11
  Harry? I've got you to the doctor.
• 6:15
  Go on, Harry Sullivan. Harry Sullivan is an imbecile.
• 6:22
  And Kira Pelas, is there a better line of dialogue?
• 6:26
  Than that. No, I mean, that's that's so
• 6:29
  quotable, isn't it? I think it's up there with Clive
• 6:32
  W saying are you picking your nose in relation of the
• 6:36
  darkness? Oh, it's a brilliant moment.
• 6:41
  I mean, look, they've lost, He goes.
• 6:42
  Have you seen Sarah? No.
• 6:43
  She's gone back up to the Beacon to find you.
• 6:45
  I. Forgot.
• 6:46
  So she's back up there now with all those Cybermen.
• 6:49
  This is becoming like a French farce.
• 6:51
  Up, down one goes, up one comes down, you know?
• 6:56
  So OK, there's two dangers, right?
• 6:58
  There's the rocket that may go up and destroy the beacon.
• 7:03
  Yep. But also the beacon may come
• 7:06
  down and crash into the planet. So it's not great being up there
• 7:09
  at all really, is it? I mean either way.
• 7:12
  You're in trouble. Yeah.
• 7:13
  You're a goner, aren't you? You know it'll.
• 7:14
  Be worse I think be blown up in the beacon or smashed into the
• 7:19
  planet. I think it'd be quicker to be
• 7:21
  blown up, wouldn't it? I think you're right, yeah.
• 7:24
  I'll take skyscraper over over. Oh dear, what would you call it?
• 7:30
  Planet 4. Yes.
• 7:34
  Oh, here we go. Oh, so we've got 4 up here now
• 7:36
  look. Four.
• 7:37
  What a treat. I know.
• 7:40
  I mean. This blue lighting is quite
• 7:41
  nice. Yeah, but I mean, you're right,
• 7:43
  the costumes aren't great, aren't they?
• 7:45
  And they've got these sort of weird electronic voices, haven't
• 7:50
  they? Yeah, and they seem to have a
• 7:51
  bit of all seem to have a bit of a hump, don't they?
• 7:55
  Yeah. And I don't know, it's look at
• 7:57
  the, look at the bits. On the on the.
• 7:59
  Elbows. They look a bit like him for
• 8:03
  you. On the joints, yeah.
• 8:04
  Oh, I should have marked like it was made on the cheap for God's.
• 8:07
  Sake. I mean, it was.
• 8:08
  I mean, look here, it got gold. Gold.
• 8:11
  How much have we got? Oh great, doesn't Harry go Oh my
• 8:14
  God, I'll pocket some of this? I don't understand right why the
• 8:20
  companions don't just pocket things throughout all their
• 8:23
  adventures and then when they get back to her finally make a
• 8:26
  min? Well, I mean, that's right.
• 8:28
  You'd think you'd just take a load of gold out with you,
• 8:30
  wouldn't you? There's only one person I know
• 8:32
  who got away with that. I don't know if you ever read
• 8:34
  the 8th Doctor books and She Kapoor, she did that.
• 8:38
  She pocketed a load of copies of the Financial Times from the
• 8:41
  future and then got back to the stock market and put all of her
• 8:44
  money on the things that we're going to do well.
• 8:47
  Well, that's right. That's surprising, isn't it?
• 8:49
  I mean, it's a bit like Donna with her lottery ticket, isn't
• 8:51
  it? It's oh.
• 8:52
  I love that beer. Is that what is it?
• 8:55
  He gave me a quid. Jeff.
• 8:58
  Gorgeous go, unlike this. Scene between Voris and Kevin
• 9:03
  Stoney. It's just two men.
• 9:05
  Shouting at each other, isn't it?
• 9:06
  It's just. Paul, I wanted to.
• 9:08
  Free us from the tyranny of Cybermen.
• 9:13
  I had a dream. Oh my God, it's Martin Luther
• 9:16
  fucking thing. Now.
• 9:21
  I know I keep saying this, I just didn't see the master
• 9:26
  problem when I was younger. No.
• 9:28
  None of it. They're not, they're not great,
• 9:31
  are they? I mean, they'd have been better
• 9:32
  just made-up. Wouldn't they care?
• 9:34
  Though did you care as a kid? Well, no, no, I mean, but you're
• 9:38
  more exceptional, aren't you? When you're a kid, You, you got
• 9:41
  less sort of critical criticism of things, you know?
• 9:45
  I think after a certain period of time of being a Doctor Who
• 9:50
  fan, right, I think you have the the early stage where you're a
• 9:53
  kid and you just love everything.
• 9:55
  Then you go for those sort of teenage years where you're a bit
• 9:58
  embarrassed by everything. You try and find all the best
• 10:00
  stuff. You know, some of it really
• 10:02
  embarrasses you horribly, and then I think later in life you
• 10:06
  just accept it. You just don't care, do you?
• 10:09
  Just, it's just, it's just good fun.
• 10:10
  And that's. That's all you want, Underworld.
• 10:14
  Yeah, I mean, Underworld's got a good plot.
• 10:17
  It's just a bit. It's just a bit unfortunate with
• 10:19
  the CSO, but you can overlook that, can't you?
• 10:22
  OK, there you go. Are they taking?
• 10:24
  Oh, somebody's been from home. Good grief.
• 10:30
  I mean, this is pretty don't if the sidemen are superhuman,
• 10:33
  yeah, they could bash their skulls in it.
• 10:35
  Yeah, that's right. That's yourself throwing them
• 10:37
  off. This is quite nicely executed,
• 10:39
  isn't it, this fight? Sorry about that.
• 10:43
  Because because they're on film, it means he can go cut, cut,
• 10:46
  cut, cut, cut. So yes, it's quite dynamic.
• 10:50
  Oh, here we go. Self sacrifice.
• 10:53
  Oh, I do love self sacrifice. I see and he takes them up.
• 10:59
  That's quite well done. Yeah, I think that whole
• 11:01
  sequence is really well done. Here we go now.
• 11:09
  So now the side men are out. Yeah, the side.
• 11:12
  Men are, Vogue are. Got missed, yeah.
• 11:17
  So the plan is now what to get to the beacon.
• 11:20
  Because now they're going to aim.
• 11:22
  Oh, no, hang on. They've got to go up to the
• 11:23
  beacon now to go and get Sarah, but because the bombs aren't
• 11:26
  going to work, they're going to send the beacon down to the
• 11:29
  planet and blow it up because you've got to do that before
• 11:31
  they send their rocket up. These sidemen are quite
• 11:34
  reactionary, aren't? They they are well.
• 11:37
  If our bombs aren't going to work, we're going to smash this
• 11:39
  bloody arc right into the planet.
• 11:42
  I think they're quite emotional, this bunch, yeah.
• 11:47
  Oh, I love Sarah's trousers. Yeah, they're good, aren't they?
• 11:50
  Genesis. These are Genesis costume.
• 11:52
  That's right. Oh, Sarah, why did?
• 11:54
  You all that Chuck in her about. Like they've got guns in their
• 11:59
  heads, they could kill you in a second.
• 12:01
  That's right. It makes no sense.
• 12:02
  Does it really? Oh this is so great.
• 12:04
  He presses the button to explode the bombs and he just goes.
• 12:08
  It has failed. At least he's not annoyed.
• 12:13
  Yeah. I mean, usually these sort of
• 12:17
  villains have got a backup, right?
• 12:19
  Yeah. That's right.
• 12:20
  Oh, oh, look. There you go.
• 12:22
  He's free. He looks relieved anyway.
• 12:25
  Have you ever seen the interview that Tom gave?
• 12:27
  Oh, down down there. Yes, yes.
• 12:29
  He goes, oh, hello, yes, I'm filming Doctor Who, don't you
• 12:33
  know? Oh, he's great, isn't he?
• 12:36
  Still going strong. Yeah, I've heard.
• 12:40
  Now don't get me wrong, I've heard many, many wonderful
• 12:44
  things about Elizabeth Slayden on Hamster in the last year or
• 12:49
  so. I've heard from sort of younger
• 12:52
  fans some quite critical things about her acting.
• 12:58
  I don't buy it. No.
• 13:02
  I I think it's a certain type of performance that she aced.
• 13:06
  Yeah, I think so. I think she's possibly one of
• 13:11
  the best companions. She wasn't afraid to be afraid.
• 13:17
  I. Really.
• 13:18
  No, that's right. Yeah, that's right.
• 13:22
  She could do that. She could do fear.
• 13:23
  She could do courage. In a way that Harry, who's very
• 13:27
  stalwart, but he never really shows that he's afraid.
• 13:30
  No, no, he, he's, he's very sort of step up a lip, isn't he?
• 13:35
  And you? Know that bit in Genesis when
• 13:37
  he's standing on the landmine and Harry's cool as a cucumber?
• 13:40
  Yeah, putting that, the stones underneath and it's Sarah that's
• 13:42
  going, Oh my God, step back, you know, like.
• 13:46
  That's right. All right, so now he's going to
• 13:50
  go up to the up to Rocket to have a work at the Cybermen
• 13:55
  because he's really boring. Sarah's up there.
• 13:59
  Because you know you don't know me.
• 14:00
  From Adam Vogan's But. You know.
• 14:02
  Just trust me, all right? I'll go out there and sort it.
• 14:04
  All out. I'm the doctor Voris.
• 14:09
  Is he convinced? Oh, 15 minutes he's got,
• 14:12
  actually. Hang away.
• 14:13
  How long has this got to go? 15 minutes.
• 14:18
  That's why as soon as the danger is over, it's like, right, let's
• 14:20
  go. Off the Loch Ness.
• 14:23
  Yeah, that is an odd thing about classic Doctor Who, isn't it?
• 14:26
  It is very much on to the next adventure.
• 14:29
  Yeah. When there is a coda, it's
• 14:32
  unusual. Yeah, I mean, yeah, it's a bit
• 14:37
  odd, isn't it? Because you never really used.
• 14:38
  I mean, it's like when Atherick dies, you know, they're like in
• 14:41
  time flying. Oh, wow, off we go.
• 14:42
  Hang. On a minute, I'm just going back
• 14:46
  to the questions. Yeah.
• 14:48
  But son of Bigwell, I think it might just be a comment he says.
• 14:52
  Brilliant story. I never understood why people
• 14:54
  tend not to rate this one. Maybe because the first time
• 14:58
  watching I never finished Part 1 and developed Stockholm
• 15:01
  syndrome. Oh, bless you.
• 15:04
  Right, OK. Stockholm Syndrome with Revenge
• 15:06
  of the Sidemen. Bless him, Matt Foy says.
• 15:12
  Christopher Robbie. Discuss.
• 15:21
  It's a performance, isn't it? Oh, OK, here's one.
• 15:25
  Here's one. Here's 1 So Jo Marna, she's the
• 15:29
  other person who did. Her.
• 15:30
  Oh, right. Yes.
• 15:31
  Lovely, yeah. She asks if you could keep 1
• 15:35
  scene out of this whole serial, which would it be and why?
• 15:41
  The doctor Taryn Harry Sunfly is.
• 15:43
  He's an imbecile because it makes me howl every time.
• 15:47
  Do you know what I'd go for? I'd probably go for that bit
• 15:50
  where they just took the side move from behind, and not for
• 15:53
  rude reasons, just because I thought that was a really well
• 15:55
  directed scene. You're right, it is.
• 15:57
  It's good when they sort of jump down on them and sort.
• 16:01
  Of although I might take the rolling planetscape as well.
• 16:05
  I mean, that's that is hilarious.
• 16:08
  It's. I mean, to be fair, Inferno
• 16:10
  episode 6 ends in exactly the same way with that rolling lava
• 16:15
  this is. True.
• 16:15
  This is true. OK.
• 16:18
  Are you ready for one last question?
• 16:19
  Yep, go on. Then Dave Rennie, lovely Dave
• 16:22
  Rennie says is the cybermats. Sorry, are the cybermats more
• 16:25
  effective as little mite creatures in nightmare and
• 16:29
  silver or brain wave scattering critters in the Wheeling space
• 16:34
  or these giant virus injecting versions?
• 16:37
  Right. I don't like these versions.
• 16:39
  They're too big. I think, I think a smaller
• 16:41
  version is better because it can go and detect it and creep up on
• 16:46
  its on its prey. So I think the wheel in space
• 16:49
  ones, and that's about the only good thing you can say about the
• 16:52
  wheel in space. You didn't mention the nightmare
• 16:55
  and silver ones though. The little cyber mites.
• 16:58
  Yeah. No, no, not keen, I don't.
• 17:00
  Even remember them? What were they like?
• 17:02
  Little wood louse or something? I think so, yeah, but they're
• 17:04
  better than the things in the next what?
• 17:06
  What way in the next doctor sort of float about the?
• 17:09
  Oh, the cyber. Shades, yes.
• 17:12
  They're like weird sort of monkeys weren't.
• 17:14
  They yeah, that's fairly very odd with.
• 17:17
  Side faces. Sometimes I feel like they're
• 17:20
  just making it up in. The news I mean, I loved a shad,
• 17:23
  you know, the half side man man with all the scarred.
• 17:26
  Faces. Oh yeah, yeah.
• 17:27
  Oh yeah, That's brilliant. Yeah.
• 17:28
  He was great. Oh, OK.
• 17:30
  Do you know what? I'm going to squeeze in one
• 17:31
  more. OK, go on then, forgive me.
• 17:33
  Tom Newsome asks, does this suffer from having to follow
• 17:37
  Genesis of the Daleks, or is it just not very good?
• 17:45
  Well, I mean, let's be honest, it's not the best side of man
• 17:48
  story in the world, is it? We've discussed that.
• 17:50
  I mean, I like it because I watched it to death on VHS, but
• 17:56
  it's a bit unfortunate that it's following genesis of the
• 17:58
  dialects because I mean, you, you just can't criticize that,
• 18:01
  can you? That it's just perfect.
• 18:04
  It's a tricky, like anything that came after Genesis of the
• 18:07
  Daleks. That's right, A.
• 18:09
  Tricky watch but I think if Terra the Saigons came after it,
• 18:12
  it would be less bumpy. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 18:16
  I mean, yeah, I think, I think that's right, because Terra
• 18:19
  Zygons is an absolute banger as well, isn't it?
• 18:22
  I mean, I'll sort of give you another example.
• 18:24
  Just the twin dilemma suffer because it follows Kaita
• 18:28
  Vedrazzani. Yes, I mean the twin dilemma
• 18:34
  suffer wherever it is because it's not very good, is it?
• 18:36
  Let's be honest. Does Time Lash suffer because
• 18:39
  it's a starter? For Revelation of the Daleks,
• 18:43
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes, it's yeah.
• 18:47
  Oh. Paul, this is so funny.
• 18:50
  He sends in the Cyberman to take on the Cyberman.
• 18:52
  Doesn't he? Oh yes.
• 18:53
  And he literally, this poor man in the Cyberman costume, has to,
• 18:56
  like, wrestle it. But it's sort of ingenious.
• 19:00
  It's a good. Plan though, isn't it?
• 19:03
  How does a Cyberman contract a virus though?
• 19:06
  I don't know. Well, I know he's put gold in
• 19:08
  it, hasn't he? So.
• 19:08
  Oh. Of course he has.
• 19:10
  He's. Just going to clog him up.
• 19:11
  Oh God. Oh.
• 19:14
  No. Oh dear.
• 19:17
  Oh look, look, he's going down on the floor.
• 19:19
  Easy, so to speak. And you know, I can just hear
• 19:22
  the music in your version. I could hear Carrie blind and
• 19:25
  literally go crazy on his saxophone there.
• 19:27
  Yeah. Oh, what's happening now?
• 19:29
  Oh. Oh oh oh God, they've changed
• 19:31
  course of the art. Turbulence.
• 19:33
  Oh God almighty. Oh it.
• 19:37
  Doesn't go. Dusty death.
• 19:39
  Ouch, Ouch. You're right.
• 19:43
  Maybe he is there. Already like.
• 19:44
  Yeah. He's having fun with it, isn't
• 19:47
  he, Paul? Harry is just stuck down here
• 19:50
  going. He's just worrying now, isn't
• 19:53
  he? We may be flattened at any
• 19:55
  minute. You know people.
• 19:57
  This is so funny. Look, they're just zooming in on
• 19:59
  the model to pretend it's coming.
• 20:01
  Closer to them, yeah. You can see it's not coming to
• 20:05
  them, they're going to it, but. But, and it's a big bar.
• 20:10
  Oh, she's got chocolate. Someone got short, Harry got
• 20:14
  hit, but the Cyberman got attacked by the Cyberman.
• 20:18
  They're about to crash into the planet.
• 20:19
  It is. Exciting, isn't it?
• 20:21
  Yeah. No, Boris, don't.
• 20:25
  Oh, look. Oh, that's the last thing he's
• 20:26
  going to do. Shot in the back of.
• 20:30
  Course, say the line. My Sky striker, my glory.
• 20:34
  Oh, that looks like a NASA rocket.
• 20:37
  It does. It doesn't look like that one we
• 20:39
  saw. Don't they do the same thing in
• 20:43
  the Android invasion? Yeah, probably the same.
• 20:46
  Come on now. Although do you remember when
• 20:48
  that Skyray rocket goes up in State of decay?
• 20:52
  Yes, and it. Looks terrible.
• 20:54
  And it just turns around because.
• 20:56
  Maybe stock? Footage is a better option.
• 20:58
  Well, yes. Oh my.
• 21:00
  God that Cyberman is. Literally he's sucking on every
• 21:03
  Cyberman going. Oh, this?
• 21:06
  Is it is this where he gets the massage so he smacks the?
• 21:10
  Goal. Oh, here he goes.
• 21:12
  Oh right, you've made your .0. Look at Sarah, bless her.
• 21:19
  I suppose they've got. Sorry.
• 21:20
  You'll forgive me, I suppose. They've got like a grip of
• 21:23
  steel. Yes.
• 21:28
  Oh dear, now I don't know why they don't just kill them.
• 21:34
  Yeah, because I mean, what's the point in going to?
• 21:37
  It'd be just easy just to kill them because only got 3 minutes
• 21:39
  to leave the rocket, haven't they?
• 21:41
  Well, it's another emotional thing, right?
• 21:43
  Because yeah, we're going to tie you up and then you're going to
• 21:46
  get a front row seat of this smashing.
• 21:48
  And we'll enjoy that, which is an emotion, yeah.
• 21:51
  Very odd. No wonder they lost.
• 21:55
  Look how. Those ropes are as well around.
• 21:58
  Them. Yeah, we.
• 21:59
  That's not going to be much of A job, is it?
• 22:01
  I don't know how much you've been tied up, Paul, but I could
• 22:03
  get out of that in a second. Yeah, that's not going to be any
• 22:05
  trouble at all, is it? You got to make a really good
• 22:08
  scout's knot, you know? Yeah.
• 22:10
  Oh, sorry about. This you've been at knots, not.
• 22:13
  Bad, Actually, yeah. Oh no, look at that planet
• 22:17
  getting closer. Oh, here we go, little mana be
• 22:19
  stood at the end, turning the wheel.
• 22:20
  See. You know what that planet
• 22:22
  reminds me of? No, no.
• 22:25
  After burden moves. Oh.
• 22:28
  Yes, Mr. Spoler look, he's pulling out.
• 22:31
  He's undocking. I can't believe I'm the less
• 22:35
  rude version. Oh God sakes.
• 22:38
  Oh, Harry's recovered all right. Oh, no, he's OK.
• 22:42
  Yeah. Come on, get those ropes undone.
• 22:44
  Does he say something about Houdini?
• 22:46
  He did say something about Houdini, yes.
• 22:48
  There we go. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 22:50
  Go. Didn't poetry say that as well?
• 22:53
  As yeah. Harry Houdini.
• 22:55
  That's it. Oh yes, that's in plant
• 22:57
  exposures, isn't it, when he's trying to get out?
• 23:01
  Of his he goes, Oh my God, that rock is too close for comfort.
• 23:06
  I mean, now imagine, right, it's a bit like the end of Voyage of
• 23:09
  the Dam, you know, where the doctors at the wheel, you know,
• 23:12
  and he's taking it away from the planet.
• 23:14
  It's the same thing. Yeah.
• 23:18
  Which one would you say is executed better?
• 23:21
  Not this one. Oh, I do kind of love it.
• 23:26
  I mean, I do like, but I mean, The thing is, I watched this, I
• 23:29
  found this exciting as hell. So you know.
• 23:32
  Like. If this was on, yeah, if they
• 23:34
  put on like an episode, you know like those old 15 minute sort of
• 23:38
  B move things they put on before the cinema films.
• 23:41
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, like sort of flash golden or something.
• 23:43
  Yeah, if this. Was on and you had.
• 23:47
  Like Oh my God, it would be the best.
• 23:49
  Brilliant. But I can imagine people that
• 23:54
  take Doctor Who incredibly seriously might look at this and
• 23:58
  go. Wow.
• 24:00
  OK, no, you it's fun and that's all you want.
• 24:04
  It's a good fun time. What?
• 24:06
  Oh look, I have the biggest bang in history.
• 24:09
  Have you ever? Oh my God, look, that rocket's
• 24:12
  going straight for the. Side ship.
• 24:14
  Oh, watch what? It Oh, I love the side men.
• 24:17
  And they sort of. Just go dancing about like oh.
• 24:23
  Oh. My God, I mean, that's not a bad
• 24:26
  explosion. That's not bad at all.
• 24:28
  I don't. Know if you get smoke in space?
• 24:30
  Though you know. No, no, I suspect not.
• 24:32
  There's no oxygen, is there? They will never be a threat to
• 24:36
  Olga again. Isn't it true that like in
• 24:40
  space, like nothing would explode the way we see on TV and
• 24:44
  films because they couldn't have a flame?
• 24:47
  No, that's right. It's not oxygen it.
• 24:51
  Would just sort of fall apart, I guess.
• 24:52
  Yeah, but that's not quite as exciting.
• 24:55
  No, no. Oh my God.
• 24:58
  Sarah, old girl, I don't know if you know, but.
• 25:03
  Yeah, that's great. We are aware of it, Harry.
• 25:08
  All right, like. Stop being such a.
• 25:13
  Prick and help us out. Oh my God, look how fast that
• 25:17
  beacons coming in. Jesus Christ, this might be the
• 25:21
  most fun episode of all you know.
• 25:22
  Oh, here. We go.
• 25:27
  Oh my God, round the planet. Zoom.
• 25:32
  And then they sort of tilt it to the side.
• 25:33
  That's. Right.
• 25:34
  Yeah, look at Elizabeth Sladen. She's giving it everything.
• 25:38
  Oh my God, look straight across the surface.
• 25:44
  Come on, Sarah. They're.
• 25:45
  Going to go up. They're going to overshoot it.
• 25:47
  Look, there you go. Oh boy, that's so funny.
• 25:52
  Oh. Brilliant.
• 25:53
  I mean, who was there with the crank handle guy?
• 25:56
  Come on, come on. Right.
• 26:00
  Get that? String, get that NERVA beacon
• 26:02
  flying over there. Great.
• 26:04
  Oh they must have had a blast making this.
• 26:06
  Yeah, good fun. Don't Tom Baker and Elizabeth
• 26:10
  Slayden, they both say, like, yeah, we didn't really have a
• 26:12
  relationship out of work. We were saving the universe.
• 26:15
  What could help that? Well, I mean, that's oh, look,
• 26:18
  here's the tires back. What?
• 26:19
  This can't be the end. It is.
• 26:22
  What about the Vogans? Oh wow, they're just voguing
• 26:27
  whatever they're doing. Where's Harry?
• 26:29
  Oh. He's on his way, yes.
• 26:33
  Come on. It's a very quick ending though.
• 26:35
  It is. It all wraps up really fast.
• 26:37
  I mean, there's no complies to anybody or anything, is there?
• 26:39
  What? Happened to Kelman.
• 26:40
  Did I say, oh, he got killed? He got killed, yeah.
• 26:43
  I assume the commander is still down there.
• 26:45
  I was probably saying something stupid at the time.
• 26:47
  Yeah, no, I'm sure you weren't there.
• 26:52
  You go. You're being rude now.
• 26:53
  Well done. Oh my God, we've had a message
• 26:58
  from the space-time Telegraph. Yeah, so they're off.
• 27:01
  They're off. Oh, look what?
• 27:02
  What? Gone.
• 27:04
  Oh, that's brilliant. Well.
• 27:06
  How can nobody not love? That I mean that long.
• 27:09
  I mean, we did laugh a bit in that last.
• 27:11
  Episode we did. I mean, there's, there's lots to
• 27:13
  love, isn't there? It's fucking ridiculous, but.
• 27:17
  It's great. I feel as if.
• 27:18
  I I have been 4 again today. Good.
• 27:22
  Yeah, I show. I think when I watched this the
• 27:24
  other day I was my adult head was on.
• 27:27
  Maybe I should just switch it off when I'm watching?
• 27:28
  Yeah, yeah. Leave you.
• 27:30
  If you leave your brain at the door, it's fine.
• 27:33
  Well. This is your first commentary,
• 27:35
  right? So this is the first time to do
• 27:38
  the three fabulous things about Revenge of the Side Men.
• 27:43
  Now if you start. And then?
• 27:44
  I'll do one and we'll go back and forth, all right.
• 27:46
  OK, right. My first thing is going to be
• 27:51
  the partnership of the Doctor, Sarah and Harry, because I think
• 27:56
  that's when they got a brilliant dynamic.
• 28:00
  They bounce off each other brilliantly and their characters
• 28:03
  are so different that it just really, really works.
• 28:08
  I mean, I can't argue with that. I mean, it's one of the
• 28:11
  celebrated regular team UPS, isn't?
• 28:14
  It it's. It's the, the rarest thing of
• 28:17
  getting the right characters, the right actors, and the
• 28:21
  chemistry just sinks. Well, my first thing then is
• 28:26
  going to be, I think I'm going to go for free ridiculous things
• 28:30
  because I, I, so my first thing is going to be those stupid
• 28:35
  bloody cyber maps. Going about the.
• 28:37
  Slivering about the place like Quicksilver attacking Elizabeth
• 28:41
  Slayden and pumping poison into her neck.
• 28:44
  And but the best scenes of all was when the Doctor turned him
• 28:48
  on the Cyberman and that poor fellow was wrestling with.
• 28:52
  Absolute magic wasn't. It.
• 28:54
  Oh my God. Science fiction.
• 28:56
  Has never been more gritty. Than this.
• 28:58
  So yeah, the cybermats are my first thing.
• 29:00
  Right, excellent. I think that's a very, very good
• 29:02
  choice. Right.
• 29:04
  So my second thing is going to be Carrie Blighton's music.
• 29:09
  Oh, because I mean, it's it, it's so different.
• 29:14
  It's. It is.
• 29:17
  Well, it, it just stands on its own.
• 29:19
  It's it's a masterpiece. I mean, do you think it
• 29:23
  particularly goes with the story or do you think?
• 29:27
  Well, no, but I mean, I don't think Philip Hinchcliffe.
• 29:30
  Did either, that's why. I asked for all the extra music
• 29:32
  to be slapped onto it, but it is unique like it is.
• 29:37
  There's no other story that sounds like this.
• 29:39
  No, you remember it, don't you? I mean, somebody said Revenge of
• 29:42
  the Cyclist music. You could rattle it off,
• 29:45
  couldn't you? It's a bit like the death to.
• 29:47
  The Daleks, yeah. Yeah, or just do it far, you
• 29:56
  know, And it sounds a lot like the music in this story.
• 29:59
  This is true to say I. Mean you don't need to do that.
• 30:01
  No, I won't do. Can I ask you when?
• 30:04
  When you listen to the soundtrack earlier, Yeah.
• 30:06
  Yeah, very. Brave of you man, I say.
• 30:09
  Did you? Did?
• 30:09
  It was a hot day. Did you have the windows opened?
• 30:12
  Ohh, did the neighbors think I'm strange?
• 30:16
  Anyway, so. Oh, they don't.
• 30:18
  Oh, fair enough. Imagine them cutting the law
• 30:21
  going. What is he listening?
• 30:23
  Why? It's that fucking racket.
• 30:26
  Yeah, but I mean, if they're to look, they're to see me dancing
• 30:29
  to it. Oh.
• 30:30
  God Almighty. Throw in some shapes I'm.
• 30:33
  Busy If you see a few for sale signs outside your house
• 30:36
  tomorrow, well. I know it's the valley around
• 30:39
  here, but anyway. You have, yeah, yeah.
• 30:42
  But you're having fun though. I am.
• 30:44
  Yeah, well, my second thing then is going to be, do you know what
• 30:52
  I'm going to say all the action in the caves, because, yeah,
• 30:56
  it's not silly, but it is actually really well done.
• 30:59
  And you're right, Bryant comes alive when he's in that
• 31:02
  location. He's really energized and he
• 31:06
  just get, he just gets the pace of it right.
• 31:09
  There's a lot of hardware on display.
• 31:11
  There's a wonderful bit where Sarah and Harry go running down
• 31:13
  this cave and there's fucking bullets ricocheting off all the
• 31:16
  caves. Yeah.
• 31:19
  It's exciting stuff. It is exciting, right?
• 31:23
  So my third thing I think it's going to be it's going to be the
• 31:28
  location I used in Wookie Hole, because I think that really,
• 31:33
  really brings it alive. I mean, you you actually feel
• 31:36
  like you're on another planet and it's dark and it's great for
• 31:41
  the side men. They look really good there in
• 31:44
  the shadows, sort of shimmering. Yeah, I I think the location and
• 31:48
  actually Michael E Bryant used it again, didn't he, in Blake 7
• 31:51
  for projects Avalon. Oh, that's.
• 31:53
  A great episode isn't. It yeah, so.
• 31:56
  How often for a show that is always set in caves do we go to
• 32:01
  real caves? I can think of twice the mutants
• 32:04
  and this. Yeah, I think that's probably
• 32:07
  right. I can't think of any more.
• 32:09
  I mean, the caves in Earth Shock are so convincing I thought they
• 32:11
  were in real caves, but yeah. I mean, that's really, that's
• 32:14
  really good, isn't? There like water running down at
• 32:16
  my point in that. Yes.
• 32:18
  What about the Destiny's Daleks? Do they not?
• 32:20
  Do they? Oh yeah.
• 32:22
  That's. Oh, and Pirate Planet.
• 32:25
  Oh, of course. Yeah.
• 32:27
  Oh, maybe it's quite often then. Well, my last.
• 32:31
  Thing then it's going to. Be easily the most deliriously.
• 32:35
  Enjoyable thing I've seen tonight, and that is.
• 32:38
  The doctor trying to pilot. Nerva beacon around that planet.
• 32:44
  So it doesn't. Hit the planet.
• 32:46
  I mean, it's just ridiculous, isn't it?
• 32:50
  But God, I don't know, there's something some.
• 32:54
  The the inner 4 year old was just going yes.
• 32:59
  Yes. Oh, it's a wonderful, wonderful
• 33:01
  moment. You're not wrong.
• 33:03
  And you're right a bit where he just goes.
• 33:05
  He then says it flying off into water.
• 33:08
  It's. So.
• 33:09
  Funny. Don't.
• 33:10
  Let me bring it back or just keep floating away forever more.
• 33:13
  We don't really hear from it again, do we?
• 33:15
  No, I mean. Oh God, there's a story there I
• 33:18
  reckon. Yeah, and I mean, it was there
• 33:20
  for a reason, wasn't it? Because it was guarded in
• 33:22
  spaceships. So I've already spaceships kind
• 33:24
  of just crashing I mean. I don't know, is anyone left
• 33:27
  alive on the ark? It's just loads of bodies, isn't
• 33:30
  it? Yeah.
• 33:31
  I mean, it's the commander going back or is he going to stay on
• 33:34
  do? You know, imagine, right?
• 33:35
  So it's gone, flying off into space and and then it goes into
• 33:39
  the orbit of a planet and they're like, Oh my God, there's
• 33:41
  a new star in the sky. We'll send up, we'll go and have
• 33:44
  a look and they go and explore and all the bodies are.
• 33:47
  It'd be a great opening to a story.
• 33:48
  It would. That'd be good.
• 33:49
  I mean, they missed a trick with that they could use the set
• 33:51
  again. And there's we're and grubs on
• 33:54
  boards and start possessing and taking over everyone on the
• 33:58
  planet. Yeah, yeah, it's nice.
• 34:00
  That's a good idea. You should have a big finish,
• 34:02
  man, No? Don't say that they will.
• 34:05
  They will. They'll make.
• 34:06
  Anything do it. We've discussed earlier that.
• 34:10
  We can't keep up anymore. No.
• 34:13
  Oh, Paul. Joe What?
• 34:15
  You chose a great story. Thank you very much.
• 34:18
  I really, really enjoyed it. It's been a lot.
• 34:21
  Fun, isn't it really fun? But now are we going to go more
• 34:26
  fun next time? Or are we going?
• 34:28
  To go more serious. Right.
• 34:31
  Wow, there's two that I really fancy doing.
• 34:36
  What two members of the hand fam that you fancy?
• 34:38
  Come on, tell me who? Sorry.
• 34:40
  Oh, sorry, you meant stories. You meant stories.
• 34:42
  Right, stories. Stories.
• 34:43
  I fancy them all because they're all gorgeous.
• 34:45
  Lovely. Things, well, we accept that one
• 34:47
  though. Well, yeah, I mean, some of
• 34:49
  their tastes are a bit dubious, but anyway.
• 34:51
  Just don't look at me in the eye, OK?
• 34:53
  Which stories then? Right, well.
• 34:55
  I I've got hankering to do Eva Delta and the bannermen.
• 35:01
  OK, or? I do really, really, really
• 35:04
  quite like a black orchid. Oh wow.
• 35:10
  Well, the choice is yours. So no, I'm happy to be guided by
• 35:14
  you. I have not long done.
• 35:17
  The Delta and the Bannermen. OK.
• 35:19
  So maybe we should swing to black Orchids and we'll go and
• 35:23
  have a party. I'm happy to do that.
• 35:26
  Paul, it's the coldest party on record.
• 35:28
  They're fucking. Freezes.
• 35:33
  How do you think it fares? Well, as a murder mystery, you
• 35:36
  know. Well, it's not much of A
• 35:37
  mystery. It's.
• 35:40
  We know from the first scene. Yeah.
• 35:43
  I mean, I think it's more style over substance, but it's well
• 35:46
  done, isn't it? Well done.
• 35:48
  And it's, you know, it's a great ensemble cast.
• 35:53
  I think Ron Jones's direction is not bad, actually.
• 35:56
  In that room, I mean, he gets better as he goes along,
• 35:58
  actually, because by the time you get to like Frontier, he's,
• 36:01
  he's banging them out, isn't he? You know.
• 36:04
  By the time we we get to that story, you know you showed that
• 36:07
  girl that time mind warp. Well, it was on fire, but not
• 36:12
  according to her. Well, no, but I mean, to be
• 36:14
  fair, she hadn't seen the previous part so didn't know
• 36:16
  what was going on. I mean, to be honest with you,
• 36:18
  I've seen a lot and I don't know what's going on so.
• 36:22
  I could just see like the pit where you know I must be the
• 36:25
  first person he sees when he wakes up.
• 36:27
  My Lord, this girl going what is?
• 36:31
  This. Is this?
• 36:34
  What you're obsessed with? Oh, bless you.
• 36:38
  What a. Choice.
• 36:39
  OK, Black Orchid. Indeed, I'm happy to do that.
• 36:43
  I love a bit of black orchid. My last question to you is, has
• 36:47
  it been a trial tonight or are all the nerves gone?
• 36:52
  I I really, really enjoyed it, Joe, it's been an absolute blast
• 36:57
  and you've made it so easy as well.
• 36:59
  So thank you. Thanks.
• 37:00
  For choosing something as trashy as this.
• 37:03
  It's my pleasure you. Can't help but have fun.
• 37:05
  Can I ask you to tell everybody whereabouts you are online?
• 37:08
  Should they? Wish yeah, you can find me as
• 37:10
  Porsi Dunn Square on Twitter or X and you can also find me on
• 37:15
  Blue Sky, but I can never remember what I'm called so just
• 37:18
  do a search. For me.
• 37:20
  And and you'll find me. Oh no, he's just joined
• 37:22
  Instagram actually, so you can find me there as well.
• 37:25
  I do try and go on Blue Sky more, you know, but I, I'm just
• 37:29
  attracted to the drama on Twitter all the time.
• 37:32
  Well, yeah, I mean, you definitely get a bit more action
• 37:35
  on Twitter, don't you? So that.
• 37:37
  Is enough of your personal? Affairs.
• 37:39
  All right, don't worry, you'll get up to on Twitter.
• 37:43
  Paul, thank you so much. It has been a complete pleasure.
• 37:46
  Thank you very much, Joe Loved it.