Latest / Merryn Talks Money / FTSE 100 Hits 10,000 as Defence, Commodities and Gold Lead Market Themes

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FTSE 100 Hits 10,000 as Defence, Commodities and Gold Lead Market Themes · Merryn Talks Money

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  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Merrin Talks Money Market Wrap, where we
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  Speaker 1: talk about the biggest moves in the markets this week
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  Speaker 1: and what's driving them. I'm Merrinsumtpweb Editor at Large for
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  Speaker 1: Bloomberg UK Wealth.
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  Speaker 3: And I'm joined Stoviic, senior reporters of the Bloomberg not
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  Speaker 3: of them. We need stilled news. Later afternoon, John Afternoon Mailta.
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  Speaker 1: Now listen, it's going to go straight into this because
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  Speaker 1: you must be so excited. Busy one hundred has finally
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  Speaker 1: gone through ten thousand, and we talked about.
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  Speaker 2: This earlier in the week where you said that you were.
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  Speaker 1: Going to count it as going through ten thousand until
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  Speaker 1: it had closed at ten thousand. Now we've had to
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  Speaker 1: close at ten thousand, and it's staying above it, or
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  Speaker 1: appears to be hanging on just above it, going to
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  Speaker 1: stay there.
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  Speaker 3: Do you think, Oh, I think it will go below
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  Speaker 3: ten again at some point, but I think we're basically
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  Speaker 3: here to stay. So that's nice. It's only taken a
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  Speaker 3: long time.
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  Speaker 2: No, it doesn't take you that long.
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  Speaker 1: Was that long ago that we were celebrating seven thousand
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  Speaker 1: on this podcast?
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  Speaker 3: Was that seven thousand celebrating.
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  Speaker 2: Celebrated seven thousand at some point? Was that long ago?
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  Speaker 2: I may never forget that.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, last year, the UK market, or the first one
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  Speaker 1: hundred at least, performed astonishingly well good Europe but really
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  Speaker 1: very well.
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  Speaker 3: Indeed, Yeah, it was decent. It was like twenty percent,
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  Speaker 3: which was better than the S and P five hundred. Yes,
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  Speaker 3: even in local cuncy terms.
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  Speaker 1: Yes, and it's still not expensive, you know, and still
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  Speaker 1: at a relative discount of much of the rest of
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  Speaker 1: the world. And that's before we even start on small
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  Speaker 1: and mid cap stocks, which really are still at something
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  Speaker 1: of it.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I mean that's interesting because if I looked
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  Speaker 3: at the two fifty and it did about fourteen percent
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  Speaker 3: last year, and the thing is, in a normal year
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  Speaker 3: that had been actually very good, amazing, it's just kind
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  Speaker 3: of slack compared to vultually everything else, And you just
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  Speaker 3: got one. Are be going to see a rotation this year?
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  Speaker 3: Is everyone going to start buying in but then they
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  Speaker 3: are more exposed to the domestic economy into whatever interest
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  Speaker 3: rates do over here, And I think that'll actually be
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  Speaker 3: the main thing that makes the difference.
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  Speaker 1: Well, I mean, it is hard to imagine the UK
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  Speaker 1: economy having a particularly good year, isn't it, And so
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  Speaker 1: anything exposed to the UK economy isn't going to do
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  Speaker 1: butarticularly well. But anything that is exposed, for example, to
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  Speaker 1: a shot fall and interest rates might if we see that.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, I mean so maybe I don't know, house
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  Speaker 3: builders or something that we'll see what happens. But I
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  Speaker 3: think the other thing but one hundred is that it
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  Speaker 3: hit suddenly all of the big themes from last year,
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  Speaker 3: and a lot of those big themes look as if
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  Speaker 3: they're going to carry on this year.
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  Speaker 1: Defense, commodities, precious metals.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think those I mean, I mean, the
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  Speaker 3: year obviously started with Donald Trump getting ready President Maduro
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  Speaker 3: from Venezuela, and I think that's one of the big
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  Speaker 3: signifiers that all of these things should continue to do well.
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  Speaker 3: Because I don't know about you, but when you when
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  Speaker 3: you look at the reaction, certainly in the wider press,
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  Speaker 3: and I guess in many other countries in the world,
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  Speaker 3: it's as if this is the first time that any
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  Speaker 3: doubt has been cast over the international rules based order,
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  Speaker 3: and everyone's just suddenly waking up to the fact that
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  Speaker 3: we don't, we don't live in that world anymore, if
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  Speaker 3: we ever did. And so, you know, defense stocks have
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  Speaker 3: really had a good start to the year, even though
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  Speaker 3: they had such a spectacular year last year. And I
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  Speaker 3: think the you know, commodities, as everyone's realizing that we're
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  Speaker 3: you know, we're building our own supply chains and we're
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  Speaker 3: haven't we're moving away from I mean I talked about it,
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  Speaker 3: kind of moved away from a just in time world
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  Speaker 3: to a just in case world where you need to
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  Speaker 3: make sure that you've got the things that you need
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  Speaker 3: because you cannot rely on the global market to simply
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  Speaker 3: provide anymore. And that kind of rather does imply that
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  Speaker 3: we're going to need almost like extra stocks of commodities
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  Speaker 3: then we would need if we were still in a
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  Speaker 3: kind of very open, free trade and globalized world.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, because everyone must have their round just in case,
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  Speaker 1: stockpiles of every commodity that might need.
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  Speaker 2: Though, isn't it that.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, you've written on that, and I think we'll
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  Speaker 1: talk about that a lot more over the next the
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  Speaker 1: next few weeks. But one of the things that I
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  Speaker 1: think surprise a lot of people is that you have
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  Speaker 1: this fairly extraordinary event in Venezuela. You have all the
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  Speaker 1: ground standing over Greenland, you have a lot of instability,
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  Speaker 1: for example, in Iran, Ukraine is still.
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  Speaker 2: Not resolved, et cetera. There is a lot.
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  Speaker 1: Going on, But yet there doesn't seem to be a
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  Speaker 1: negative market reaction ever to these geopolitical shocks, and you
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  Speaker 1: would kind of expect one.
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  Speaker 3: I do think that's interesting. But one of the things is,
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  Speaker 3: any time you look back geopolitical shocks that I've harmed
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  Speaker 3: in the past, they do generally have they don't generally
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  Speaker 3: have a lasting impact on the markets. Yeah, and I's
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  Speaker 3: seen everything from Pectatoris attacks, Kennedy's assassination, you know, even
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  Speaker 3: even the world wars. I mean, the World War was
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  Speaker 3: obviously the massive impact, and particularly and obviously certain stock
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  Speaker 3: markets that will just completely wipe too. But if you
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  Speaker 3: look at you know, what was happening kind of during
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  Speaker 3: the Second World War with US stocks kind of bache markets.
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  Speaker 3: As soon as the toning point for the war came,
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  Speaker 3: then you started seeing things pick up again. And the
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  Speaker 3: markets are unless property rates are being threatened, the remarkably
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  Speaker 3: impervious to events.
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  Speaker 1: Basically yeahs unless I guess it marks a significant change
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  Speaker 1: in energy prices. So I guess if we go back
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  Speaker 1: in the nineteen seventies, those two big oil shocks.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, that was different.
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  Speaker 1: That was different because then then you get an immediate
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  Speaker 1: market reaction because it feeds through to two economies very fast,
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  Speaker 1: which feeds through to markets very fast. But something like,
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  Speaker 1: for example, Venezuela has no mediate economical market impact. And
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  Speaker 1: we took back this on that podcast we've got coming
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  Speaker 1: up on Monday, which I strongly recommend everyone listens to.
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  Speaker 1: We talk about Venezuela and oil and whether it makes
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  Speaker 1: any difference. And now, of course that events in Venezuela
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  Speaker 1: might make a difference to how you view thinks politically,
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  Speaker 1: it might, as you say, make a difference to the
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  Speaker 1: way in which people think about commodities. Doesn't it actually
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  Speaker 1: make any difference to any prices in the short or.
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  Speaker 2: Medium term, makes no difference, for example, to the oil price.
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  Speaker 3: Well yeah, and I think obviously he's always had to
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  Speaker 3: can theorize about these things, were having all the facts.
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  Speaker 3: But one of the theories is quite compelling to me
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  Speaker 3: is the idea that basically the US has now decided
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  Speaker 3: that it wants to have a strategic chokehold or so,
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  Speaker 3: you know, the sources of oil. So at this point,
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  Speaker 3: because Venezuela has obviously been sending oil to Russia anti China,
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  Speaker 3: so the US wants to be able to kind of,
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  Speaker 3: you know, put it. It's kind of hand on that
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  Speaker 3: particular break and pull it for a better leverage. A
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  Speaker 3: lot of the stuff about Greenland, as you know, Permel
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  Speaker 3: green has come on and talked about quite a lot
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  Speaker 3: in this podcast. It's partly about its location.
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  Speaker 1: She has and she's pointed out something is you pointed
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  Speaker 1: out some of the stuff that other people haven't really
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  Speaker 1: talked about it, and people to talk about the rareth
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  Speaker 1: metals that we believe are under Greenland and the oil
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  Speaker 1: and gas and maybe under there, et cetera. I mean,
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  Speaker 1: probably still a lot to find that, but she talks
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  Speaker 1: about it in terms of space, Right, you want to
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  Speaker 1: be in that area if you want to have easier
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  Speaker 1: access to space.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, and also all the Internet cables kicking around in
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  Speaker 3: that sort of area as well as far as I'm
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  Speaker 3: all way up, and so it's these it's almost like
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  Speaker 3: having the ability to control the key bits of the
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  Speaker 3: global economy that are now going to be used as
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  Speaker 3: I guess economic weapons potentially. I suppose it's the equivalent
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  Speaker 3: of the streets near the Rhine where all the oil
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  Speaker 3: goes through, but in various other parts of the world
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  Speaker 3: as well. And again that's not none of that's really
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  Speaker 3: market directly market sensitive. Obviously it has a big effect
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  Speaker 3: over the longer term, but how do you translate that
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  Speaker 3: in the market price immediately? There isn't there isn't really
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  Speaker 3: an impact. And in the meantime that means that stuff
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  Speaker 3: like what's going to happen with the federal reserves, interest
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  Speaker 3: rate still midels more as far as markets that's concerned,
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  Speaker 3: and the kind of the micro side the things I
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  Speaker 3: still think you need to know about it, you know.
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  Speaker 3: I mean this is why people are buying defense stocks,
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  Speaker 3: for example, because that is a way to play a
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  Speaker 3: more palannoid world where everyone suddenly rebuild the defenses again.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, does it all give you?
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  Speaker 1: That's it a vague feeling that a kind of stealth
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  Speaker 1: spare market or relative bear market might be beginning in
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  Speaker 1: US tech people gradually shift away from being obsessed to
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  Speaker 1: that looking at a wider picture and moving out.
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  Speaker 2: And there was a fun little.
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  Speaker 1: Piece came out from aj Bell earlier in the day
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  Speaker 1: pointing out all the different investment trusts in the listed
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  Speaker 1: in the UK that have outperformed video over the last
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  Speaker 1: year there or you know, emerging markets China, Latin America
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: and in particular the trust involved in gold silver gold
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  Speaker 1: silver mining. And I think if you if you ask
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  Speaker 1: people about last year, they would still be under the
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  Speaker 1: impression that the Mega seven were the outperformers of the year,
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  Speaker 1: even though the S and P five hundred wasn't one
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  Speaker 1: of the bigger performers of the year.
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  Speaker 2: And that simply isn't isn't true?
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, And I mean I think that is interesting because
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: we keep talking about the EI bubble still and actually,
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  Speaker 3: I guess when you look at to you know, is
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  Speaker 3: Kina one of the less bobbly assis or.
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  Speaker 1: Very high valuations but but not gone not performed in
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  Speaker 1: the same time. Not to say for a second that
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: for example, Nvidia didn't perform well last year. It was
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: up you know, twenty five twenty six percent or something
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  Speaker 1: like that, but Latin American index was up forty three percent.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I think, yeah, it's I mean a
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  Speaker 3: relative being marked it. Yeah. I think one of the
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  Speaker 3: things to watch this year will be do we actually
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  Speaker 3: start seeing AI and entered in the mainstream in a
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  Speaker 3: more useful way where people are actually like normal people
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  Speaker 3: are starting to use it and the actual workflows as
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  Speaker 3: opposed to for for play stuff. And I can see
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  Speaker 3: that happening, and at the same time, I can also
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  Speaker 3: see the costs involved becoming more aparton and you know,
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  Speaker 3: quite possibly the mix have ben continuing or you know,
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  Speaker 3: maybe maybe they You get to see windows and losers
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  Speaker 3: in that area in a way that maybe haven't.
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  Speaker 1: And maybe conceivably you start to see the productivity revolution.
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  Speaker 3: I'm still struggling to get a doing useful for me,
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: but I am not I'm not useless with tech, but
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  Speaker 3: I'm also I'm hardly an early adopter, so that's just me,
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  Speaker 3: I know.
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  Speaker 1: But I thought I bring you back to the summer John.
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: Last summer when we did that, we recorded in Edinburgh
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: at the Fringe Live and we had Richard Wilson from
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: an Interactive investor on and he explained about the you know,
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: it might sound a bit prosaic, but it's kind of
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: not the transformative effect that has had on the productivity
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: of his customer services team. Well, you and I might
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: find it difficult to get AI to write our columns.
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  Speaker 1: Not long now, Not long now, John, we won't have
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: to work must longer quite soon. I'm quite sure I
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  Speaker 1: I'll do it for us. But we're struggling with.
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  Speaker 2: That for now.
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  Speaker 1: But that doesn't mean that other professions aren't finding it
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  Speaker 1: to be transformative in certain areas of their stuff.
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  Speaker 2: So, you know, and if that does happen.
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  Speaker 1: And then you see you know, earnings in the US
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: earnings here rising for example, then the forward pe of
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: the S and P five one hundred, which currently looks
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: really very very high over twenty twenty twenty one, twenty
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  Speaker 1: two ish at the moment after you started to see that,
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  Speaker 1: to come down then you know, a bit of a
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  Speaker 1: game changer.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's true. It's definitely the optimistic. I mean it's
• 12:58
  Speaker 3: optimistic and so much.
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: Us John doing my best year.
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: We go optimistic the early bit and then he gave
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: in to pessimism pros the end.
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  Speaker 3: That is the unemployment element though, because I mean guess
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  Speaker 3: that was the other thing that Richard was bringing up.
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  Speaker 3: It's like, oh, what's the impact, and like the must
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: have been Bretain feels as if it is on I
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: kind of wobbly moment from that point of view.
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  Speaker 1: I'm not sure you can blame AI for that one.
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  Speaker 3: No, no, we can. But if you if you see
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: it as been a tipping point for an already kind
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: of flattening employment market, then that could be quite bad
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: for the economy overall. But I guess this is when
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: I think we have to wait and see because I
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: don't I don't know you, but I don't have a
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: high conviction in which way they if we're going to
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: get a tip towards recession or if things are stronger
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: than they actually Look, what.
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  Speaker 1: Do you have conviction in John this year?
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  Speaker 3: I see this is it? I don't know it is
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  Speaker 3: I mean I remember this actually we well like and
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: I'm not mainlying a comparison with two thousand and seven
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: two thousand and eight, but one thing I would say
• 14:21
  Speaker 3: about two thousand and kind of seven is that most
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: stuff was quite expensive and it was hard to find
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: something that you felt confident was cheap. I'd still see.
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: I think that kind of UK stocks are pretty decent value.
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: I think the scope, particularly for IPOs and the things
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: to come back this year, so I guess those would
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: be comfortable with. I suppose it's just there's more. There's
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: nothing to me that's jumping up and down screaming buy
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: me from.
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: I think it is interesting.
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: I think this time, the beginning of last year, you
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: could point to a lot of stuff that was genuinely cheap,
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: genuinely just buy that that's super cheap by it and wait.
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: In fact, you didn't have to wait very long.
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: No you didn't.
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: Now you're at a point where a lot of stuff
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: is it's perfectly okay value. You know, Japan is still
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: relatively good value, the UK still is, much of.
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: Europe still is.
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: There are perfectly weird new priced pockets of the US market.
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: So it feels like it kind of could go either
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: way in the same way that AI and the story
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: around that could go either way looks toppy to me,
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: to you perhaps, but could go either way. It's just
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: not it hasn't got the dead sert that had at
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: the beginning.
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: Of last year.
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And I actually think that's unusual because you can
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: usually point to something that's kind of saw out of fever.
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: I mean, actually the weird thing is actually property is
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: the one thing that has done nothing for actually a
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: surprising length of time. But the same time, I can't
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: see you know, I mean definitely not you know, visit
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: Angel Hoo's in the late way do you invest in
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: that at this point? Is just we two costly in
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: terms of taxation and admin botons. So I don't know,
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: possibly something in that area, but I have to take
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: how much closer look at way everything is at the moment.
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: I mean, I still feel strongly about commodities this year.
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: I still think this is going to be a very
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: good year for commodities. But what really bothers me is
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: it that there is.
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: Now a consensus.
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: You know, last year, when you and I talked about
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: commodities a lot, we were, you know, bit out there.
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: Now everybody thinks we're moving into a new commodity cycle
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: of some kind, and everybody wants gold and silver. Everybody
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: thinks copper will keep going up, et cetera, et cetera,
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: et cetera. There's not new news anymore that makes me
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: nervous and.
• 16:39
  Speaker 3: That pumps the wrong They are already high, and they've
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: already made, like I mean, certainly silver have made it's
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: called tacular gains corporate supper about twenty percent. So it's
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: not quite gold and silver, but it's still a lot
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: nickels up twenty up twenty five.
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: Although, tell you what, John, you know what had a
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: terrible year last year and still looks a bit droopy.
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: Which one bitcoin? Oh yeah, yeah, maybe this is the
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: year of the bitcoin.
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: Maybe this is the year. This is the year to
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: go contrarian on bitcoin.
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that's your value etf plea. Yeah, one buffet
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: will be paling any day.
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was Warren Buffett, wasn't he who said at
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: one of his meetings, if you gave him all the
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: bitcoin in the world for twenty bucks, he wouldn't take it,
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: very very Unwarren Buffett, because you would have thought you'd
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: take it, sell it bank the cash by something else?
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you Yeah, I feel was that one? Was that
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: Charlie that said that? Or was it Charlie one was
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: always much Charlie. Yeah, I think so. I think one
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: would be more circumspect.
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: Maybe maybe Okay, right, anything anything else.
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: John, that probably does it. It will be wibbling on
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: for two long Yeah.
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: I mean politically, it's going to be an interesting year.
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, let's say that.
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: All we can say from here, John, is that this
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: year politics might be more interesting than markets.
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: Less and less.
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: Suddenly the geopolitical situation has a direct economic feedthrough to markets.
• 18:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I think, Look, if geopolitics improved a lot, because
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: I mean, so that is one thing, because obviously people
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: there is a bit of a raw shack teste kind
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: of going on in terms of whether you think that
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: Trump being more upfront about the way the world really
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: works is actually a good thing or a bad thing.
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: And if for some reason we man used to get
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: to the point where you know, Venezuela is more cooperative
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: with the US, and the restic kind of South America
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: is kind of more cooperative with the US. I mean,
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: already a lot of countries are in that direction anyway,
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: and then you must put an pressure on Russia and
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: to get some sort of resolution in Ukraine. That just
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: about makes everyone equally unhappy. And you know China doesn't
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: do any bit tiwine, and maybe we do see some
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: sort of improvement in Ryan, then all of those, all
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: of those things would be good. Those are all happy stories. Basically,
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: tell you what.
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: John, if all those things, If all those things happen,
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: bet my bottom dollar market's full, Yeah, successful, Commodity strucks
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: will fall, miners will fall, goal prices will fall, and
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: there's no obvious reason under those circumstances for anything else
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: to go up.
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: Well, good news is bad news.
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: Good news is bad news, bad news is good news.
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: Remember the days when all bad news was good news
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: because every time anything bad happened, interest rates would be slashed.
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: Again, again and again again again.
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: We used to actively wait for bad news so that
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: equities would go up.
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, oh absolutely yeah. And I mean, you know there's
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: still an element that like going on with the They
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: kind of defaird at the moment because everyone's hoping that,
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: you know, either they'll be by job support or buy
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: GDP reports, so that as your own pole will definitely
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: cut rates again and again and yeah, the news keeps
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: coming up has been BAC.
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: Fine.
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, everything's fine, And that's the way that we should
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: end this because everything usually is fine. Thanks for listening
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: to this week's Mary Talks Money Debrief. If you like
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: USh a rate review and subscribe wherever.
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: You listen to.
• 20:36
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• 20:38
  Speaker 1: or Twitter at marions w and John Underscore Stepic. This
• 20:42
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• 20:44
  Speaker 1: sound design by Moses and questions. The comments on this
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: show and all our shows always welcome. Our show email
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: is Merror Money at Bloomberg dot net