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EP15 – Trauma-Informed Care: Women's Addiction Treatment with Becky & Katy · Connect Call

0:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Hi, you've reached the voicemail of Hannah Brett with Connect Call, just leave a message, and I'll get back to you soon as I can.
0:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks.
0:06
[SPEAKER_02]: It's one for more options.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Hi, Hannah.
0:09
[SPEAKER_00]: We met about a month ago.
0:10
[SPEAKER_00]: You came to my practice to do an in-service and some of the programs you were working way than working with young adults, and we got on the subject of a gender-specific treatment, especially treatment just for women and women of all ages, and how it can really be so
0:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I have a young woman right now who's tried all different types of treatment and she would benefit going to an all women's program where they can was really more trauma-focused and geared to the needs.
0:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, I feel that if you could get back to me and just kind of steer me in the right direction of kind of what kind of questions and what are the things we should be looking at when we're looking at all women's treatment and aftercare?
0:55
[SPEAKER_00]: That would be great.
0:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Hi, this is Hannah Brett with another episode of Connect Call, where I often say I do not have a clinical background, but...
1:06
[SPEAKER_01]: They do have a PhD for picking up the phone for families and crisis for over 20 years and two of those amazing providers.
1:14
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm very lucky to have on this show today and I need to just say this before I introduce Becky and Katie who I love and adore very much for this this episode that we're about to do on gender specific treatment, which is for women's treatment and why it's so important if I haven't stressed in the three months that I've been doing this podcast.
1:31
[SPEAKER_01]: every guest that I've introduced that I really adore, I apologize.
1:35
[SPEAKER_01]: These are very important people to me.
1:36
[SPEAKER_01]: They're very special people, often, you know, as a friend of mine, once referred to as Angels and Human Suites, because they not only are the helping people, but they're truly doing the good work and are ethical about doing it.
1:53
[SPEAKER_01]: So with that, let's introduce my first guest Becky Gaddula who is the founder and CEO of rising roads treatment for women in Orange County, California.
2:05
[SPEAKER_01]: We also have Katie Eyer, who is the co-founder of rewrite recovery.
2:11
[SPEAKER_01]: in Los Angeles, California, which is a women's extended care.
2:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Becky has been sober since she's been 16 years old, and with over two decades of working in the helping industry, her deep devotion and loyalty to this community inspired her to find rising roads recovery services for women.
2:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Rising roads recovery has become a benchmark in the gender-specific treatment world, a place where women can address their issues, take positive steps forward to build happy and
2:42
[SPEAKER_01]: is also from California, Sanford, Nando Valley, Native, and recovering alcoholic, also whose personal journey of recovery sparked a deep passion for helping others, her commitment to the field of recovery began in 2012, Katie's passion and services led her to recognize the critical lack of resources available to women in recovery, inspiring her to co-found
3:07
[SPEAKER_01]: rewrite recovery with her best friend and business partner, Jennifer, who I'm going to say your last name, Ron Goretta.
3:15
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, well, that's fancy.
3:16
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just Goretta.
3:17
[SPEAKER_01]: She would all really.
3:24
[SPEAKER_01]: What do you appreciate?
3:25
[SPEAKER_01]: I rolled my arms.
3:26
[SPEAKER_01]: I think she would love it.
3:28
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what's been.
3:33
[SPEAKER_01]: And let the games begin.
3:34
[SPEAKER_01]: This was definitely going to be one of my favorite episodes.
3:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Sorry to the other guests.
3:40
[SPEAKER_01]: I was just saying before how much I have loved everyone, these two are my favorites.
3:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Now I'm getting...
3:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Together, they have created a loving and inclusive and supportive community for all women to heal.
3:51
[SPEAKER_01]: And so guys, I can't thank you enough again for being on the show.
3:56
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, a big part of why I'm doing this is to really just answer the questions for family members that call in or call.
4:05
[SPEAKER_01]: are just taking starting this journey, right?
4:08
[SPEAKER_01]: And just for those listeners out there and viewers, typically what I find in the helping industry treatment industry for mental health and substance use disorders, addiction, all of the above is you will have two types of people, one.
4:25
[SPEAKER_01]: is someone like us who has found our own journey with mental health and addiction and getting sober and working on ourselves in that way or I find there's a lot of amazing also providers in our industry that maybe don't struggle with their mental health and don't struggle with addiction but have been a family member or have been in a household of and I think not having enough control
4:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Lens them to want to do this work to try to also help others when they couldn't help.
4:55
[SPEAKER_01]: So, okay, let's start, let's start with the questions that just the obvious question first, and I'm going to look to you Becky.
5:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Why is it that gender-specific treatment is so important, especially when we're treating women?
5:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Like in your opinion, or what you have found.
5:17
[SPEAKER_03]: So in my opinion, what I found is that that's kind of multifaceted, right?
5:23
[SPEAKER_03]: So when we're dealing with kind of a subset of the community that is essentially dealing with things that are already inherent as well as like what they're dealing with.
5:37
[SPEAKER_03]: So if from for example, being a woman in 2026 is traumatizing.
5:44
[SPEAKER_03]: It's, I don't, if we're way to say that, just the existence of our lives is really hard.
5:55
[SPEAKER_03]: And so very basic level, we need a space where we can let our guard down.
6:05
[SPEAKER_03]: us.
6:06
[SPEAKER_03]: And then secondly, I think that you know, in many ways, we're looking at allowing people to really find what they need for a long term.
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[SPEAKER_03]: So in my experience, women are slower to kind of warm up and but when they're
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[SPEAKER_03]: works for them.
6:24
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
6:25
[SPEAKER_03]: They're very long-term.
6:27
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
6:27
[SPEAKER_03]: It kind of works them.
6:29
[SPEAKER_03]: So rising rows, we like very specifically try and figure out what therapeutic modalities are going to be useful for these specific women.
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[SPEAKER_03]: So EMDR, ART, BrainSpot, I mean you name it, we can try and kind of figure it out.
6:42
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
6:43
[SPEAKER_03]: I think that, who then do those things after they discharge is really the way to go.
6:50
[SPEAKER_03]: So I think that those are kind of some of the things that I would say are very specific to women's treatment.
6:56
[SPEAKER_01]: And I have to say, in my professional career, I have also worked with Adolescent in especially young adult programs.
7:05
[SPEAKER_01]: And at any of the programs I work with, especially with the young adults, we have said, and we have treated, and it is true, that the way you treat men in their treatment is different than the treatment for women.
7:18
[SPEAKER_01]: I remember one of my programs that we worked at, we worked with Harvard's Seeking Safety Model, with trauma, which we're gonna get into.
7:25
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's, I find, I don't see why not more programs or not gender specific.
7:33
[SPEAKER_03]: I think it's hard to fill women's treatments on earth because treatment less than men are.
7:40
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
7:41
[SPEAKER_03]: So the reality is is that owning a women's treatment is our owning a woman's part of living.
7:45
[SPEAKER_03]: Only anything that is primary and is honestly
7:51
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I think a lot of places do both, because it makes it bottom lines easier.
7:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
7:57
[SPEAKER_01]: And I have to say it and we're going to we're going to get to you, Katie, in the second, but I have to say that also as a woman seeking treatment has been in treatment, all of the above, there's so they're still so much shame as being a woman asking for help in this way, not saying there isn't shame for men, but I find it greater for women hence why they're probably is you're seeing lower numbers with women accessing treatment than men.
8:25
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, at that, and you know, I would say also when you're dealing with young women, families have ending young women out, then they do their young sons, right?
8:39
[SPEAKER_03]: Wrong.
8:40
[SPEAKER_03]: We can, you know, debate gender equality later on another podcast here for it.
8:45
[SPEAKER_03]: Mm-hmm.
8:47
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a harder time.
8:49
[SPEAKER_03]: Otters away.
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[SPEAKER_03]: They do their sons.
8:50
[SPEAKER_01]: That's true.
8:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Katie, what unique challenges do you find or would you say a quality women's treatment program should address?
9:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Like what are some key issues and challenges you would hope to see being addressed?
9:07
[SPEAKER_02]: It's such a good follow-up question to what Becky just said and I have to echo like agreed with everything she's saying and for me,
9:16
[SPEAKER_02]: what i'm seeing so i haven't worked in the residential space in quite some time right so i'm not here to you know say what they are aren't doing but when they get to me what i am saying i interrupt for one second just so i can so people understand
9:32
[SPEAKER_01]: levels of care.
9:33
[SPEAKER_01]: So with rising roads, and we've spoken about this before, we've got a primary, you know, the first stop kind of residential.
9:41
[SPEAKER_01]: There is also like an extended after care model there at rising roads, but with rewrite recovery, you guys are, you said it before, and I'm
9:54
[SPEAKER_02]: supportive living.
9:55
[SPEAKER_02]: We're the lowest level of care.
9:56
[SPEAKER_02]: So like they come to us after Becky.
9:59
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
10:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
10:00
[SPEAKER_02]: So it would be yes.
10:01
[SPEAKER_01]: That's down.
10:02
[SPEAKER_01]: But to me, it is just as important if not more important than that first step.
10:08
[SPEAKER_01]: And I stress that to families all the time who are like, well, how long 30, 60, 90, when can we go home?
10:13
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, guys, it's a blip in the bucket.
10:16
[SPEAKER_01]: And we've got to look to programs like Katie's for afterwards as well.
10:21
[SPEAKER_02]: It is a very important piece because it's when they start to integrate everything that they've learned and the practicing of these new behaviors, new habits, principles, whatever, how values, all of those things that they've kind of start or beginning to rediscover about themselves and here in qualities and applying them in real world experiences and having that containment.
10:48
[SPEAKER_02]: essentially.
10:50
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I can go and diggerate or detail, but you know what I mean, so that's that.
10:55
[SPEAKER_01]: But you'll need a certain amount of time, but we bring you on as another guest for another episode.
11:00
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I could have, we could do it so low, you know, you know, you're really good.
11:04
[SPEAKER_02]: I, I want to be with Becky, but first of all, I know you guys, I'm at Katie, you could do a solo and just submit it.
11:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Just me, yeah, we'll air it.
11:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, go for it.
11:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, yeah, but what's, you know, just to come back, like, what unique challenges do we, would you like to see a quality women's treatment program?
11:25
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, what are they battling and working with and what do you hope that they're going to they're going to have qualified staff to work with.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
11:33
[SPEAKER_02]: So one of the things is kind of a kind of, you know, beautifully tailors from what Becky was talking about that I see specifically is in relationships and now and not a know a lot of treatment a lot of residential treatment focus on family dynamics right and and those relationships in the attachments and all of those things which are absolutely vital absolutely vital.
12:00
[SPEAKER_02]: But I also think it is just equally as important to look at the broader environmental relationships, like friendships, you know romantic or intimate partnerships, school, social media, all of those things that have such an influential role on how women view themselves.
12:22
[SPEAKER_02]: I will tell you that at rewrite like I can't tell you how many women come in and gender specific, like I think it kind of speaks to the importance of gender specific treatment.
12:33
[SPEAKER_02]: And when I say gender specific, I mean any individual who identifies as female.
12:38
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.
12:51
[SPEAKER_02]: They say they don't know how to make friends, or they can't sustain healthy relationships.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And I think providing opportunities for reparative experiences in that space to begin to relearn or learn that women can be trustworthy that we can feel safe together.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Because that connection I think is absolutely paramount.
13:18
[SPEAKER_01]: So relationships, which I think, honestly, thank you for bringing that up because as a woman in recovery, or just a woman in general, I feel like everybody is missing that class of how to be a good friend possibly sometimes thumbs up everybody and also like wanting other women to win and empower women and really do it.
13:42
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?
13:43
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's just like that can
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[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
13:50
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, and it's, it's how it's understanding to like being able to be vulnerable with what it is that's coming up for you.
13:58
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, like, I have, as Becky just shared like there's so many things in my life that I don't have that my friends do, but I can be envious in an endearing way.
14:11
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
14:12
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm so happy for them and can still feel a sense of longing.
14:18
[SPEAKER_01]: So, and we could stay on this for a minute, but just to kind of go on, you need challenges that women need at a good treatment program as someone, you know, trauma informed, trauma trained, trauma trauma trauma, people staff that know how to work with trauma.
14:37
[SPEAKER_01]: It's funny.
14:38
[SPEAKER_01]: I had listed here body image, you know, but what I found in treatment and we can talk on this as well is I found more young men actually struggled with body dysmorphia than women did thanks to social media.
15:01
[SPEAKER_03]: Go now, Beth, go now, trauma informed from the ground up, right?
15:06
[SPEAKER_03]: So I think when trauma came about and people started really talking about it, what that really meant was like, Oh, I have somebody on staff who can do EMDR and what it really
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[SPEAKER_03]: from the ground up, you build the program around trauma informed policies and procedures.
15:28
[SPEAKER_03]: Something as simple as our groups every day start at the same time and end at the same time.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Something as simple as you get up at the same time, you go to group at the same time.
15:38
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
15:39
[SPEAKER_03]: If you know where you're supposed to be at any given time.
15:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
15:42
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's a really good point to also stress because I know I have to educate my girlfriends on this and people who don't know like when we talk about trauma It's it's little trauma.
15:53
[SPEAKER_03]: It's big trauma to create long-term friendships because that's all that sticks in my head so like
15:59
[SPEAKER_03]: the pens on the perception and the time in which these events happened because that could mean so many different things.
16:08
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, and for me, I had super supportive parents.
16:12
[SPEAKER_03]: So like, honestly, the bullying that I got was like, then I went home to my mom and she was like, no, you're the best.
16:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, you know, like, it's so funny you should mention that because like, not to dig on my dad or my step mom, but because growing up, we had a pull out couch and not our own room in their house to this day, I don't like staying at friend's homes.
16:36
[SPEAKER_03]: Is, axiom upbringing as somebody else and the way in which that was interpreted interpreted in your mind versus my mind is all completely separate.
16:49
[SPEAKER_01]: And you want to have staff that if you have young women triggered in the moment that they know how to work with those women to work through that moment, you know what I mean, and that leads me to the my next time on the Katie is like, what is the biggest misconception about women struggling with addiction and mental health, Katie.
17:13
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so I'm going to I feel like you've been waiting for this question.
17:17
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, it it it's very it's very fun because it all ties into every question like right like the way you let it up with the trauma informed and all of that and and I will tell you and I'm going to say with complete and 100% humility and awareness that I'm guilty of what I'm about to share and and it is the.
17:37
[SPEAKER_02]: Misconception is what I've seen.
17:41
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, and I can only speak for myself, but I have a feeling that a lot of people will go on me too is the impulse to diagnose women with borderline personality disorder.
17:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.
17:57
[SPEAKER_02]: without.
17:58
[SPEAKER_02]: So, and let me just say borderline personality disorder is a real disorder and for some individuals, and there's nothing to be ashamed of or anything like that.
18:07
[SPEAKER_02]: However, just because a female is experienced, it comes into treatment dysregulated and is experiencing emotions, right?
18:15
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, whether from trauma, whether it be from loss, whether it be from chronic invalidation,
18:26
[SPEAKER_02]: diagnosis of borderline personality disorder.
18:28
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, most there are a lot of women in treatment that are being diagnosed, I mean, not a lot, but I've seen women diagnosed with borderline personality disorder who rightfully should be diagnosed.
18:42
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's, you know, another, that's what I'm saying right there is a good reason, but it is overly diagnosed for every woman.
18:52
[SPEAKER_02]: And I've worked with both.
18:55
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
18:55
[SPEAKER_02]: I've seen what a true borderline personality that diagnosed this is and the presentation and all of that in the treatment.
19:04
[SPEAKER_02]: And I've also seen someone who was just hurting.
19:08
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
19:08
[SPEAKER_02]: And now have that diagnosis attached to them.
19:11
[SPEAKER_02]: And I will tell you, most anyone in in an early in the addiction or early recovery certainly may exhibit it, you know,
19:20
[SPEAKER_02]: Exhibited of what do I want to say borderline personality in season.
19:24
[SPEAKER_02]: No, be hangers, be hangers of impulsivity of emotional reactivity, of relationship issues, of fear of abandonment, all of that.
19:36
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, we can't, like can I ask, I mean,
19:39
[SPEAKER_01]: from a clinical standpoint, because I know how do you then, I mean, I know a doctor needs to diagnose, but how does one decipher between what you see typically with a, like, if you can think of a situation, maybe that how it would be different between two women.
19:59
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I think first of all, I think instead of leading with the diagnosis, we lead the curiosity, right?
20:05
[SPEAKER_02]: We have to get to know the first cause it is like instantaneously, right?
20:09
[SPEAKER_02]: And, right, again, you know, and it's historical, right?
20:13
[SPEAKER_02]: Look at hysteria, right?
20:14
[SPEAKER_02]: It has followed women for years.
20:16
[SPEAKER_02]: And so any time a woman is having big feelings,
20:21
[SPEAKER_02]: right it is oh she's borderline or we know and it's like no and it's very stigmatizing and again I do it is important for me to to make the distinction that borderline personality disorder is a diagnosis yes and when you know a woman has that or male you know whoever has that it is not something to be ashamed of.
20:45
[SPEAKER_02]: And there's help and all of these things and, you know, strategies to navigate all of those wonderful things that are accessible.
20:52
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
20:52
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
20:53
[SPEAKER_02]: However, when it's overused, much like how people will say, well, I'm depressed, right?
20:59
[SPEAKER_02]: Like a clinical, a clinical diagnosis of depression has lost its weight because we throw it around all the time.
21:07
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just a common word now.
21:09
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's what's happening.
21:12
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's very stigmatizing.
21:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
21:15
[SPEAKER_02]: and disrupting that.
21:19
[SPEAKER_02]: And again, like having feelings is a normal part of life.
21:24
[SPEAKER_01]: What other some other misconceptions you find with women in treatment?
21:29
[SPEAKER_01]: This is all you.
21:29
[SPEAKER_01]: This kid?
21:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
21:31
[SPEAKER_02]: Or you ask him, oh, yeah, masking you.
21:34
[SPEAKER_02]: This is your question.
21:35
[SPEAKER_02]: This is my question.
21:37
[SPEAKER_02]: Amy.
21:40
[SPEAKER_01]: This is another one.
21:41
[SPEAKER_01]: What's another misconception?
21:45
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, you know, there's so manipulative like all of these things and again, like I just want to go back to and you know, all I can't tell you how many women who are kicked out of houses have come to me and
22:00
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't do that, like I don't do that.
22:02
[SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, they might be manipulative, but it's served a purpose, like what is the function?
22:07
[SPEAKER_02]: Haven't we all, but let's really lean in with curiosity and get to know these women's experiences because that's where like, and as we've talked about relationships and everything, like, yeah, if they must, whatever their issue is with women, like I'm a guy's girl, whatever it is, you know, I've heard it all.
22:26
[SPEAKER_02]: It's also gonna translate to me.
22:28
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
22:29
[SPEAKER_02]: So I thought to all of that.
22:31
[SPEAKER_02]: And so building that relationship with consistency.
22:35
[SPEAKER_02]: I had one woman who, who to one young lady who told me.
22:39
[SPEAKER_02]: In an upset that she didn't feel safe with me.
22:43
[SPEAKER_02]: And I just looked at her and I said, I'm sorry.
22:45
[SPEAKER_02]: You don't feel that.
22:46
[SPEAKER_02]: But I'm going to continue to show up for you.
22:48
[SPEAKER_02]: And so every day I'd come in and I'd say hi, you know, and I'd ask her if I could hug her or whatever until eventually.
22:58
[SPEAKER_02]: she said yes.
22:59
[SPEAKER_02]: And then we started to work from there.
23:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
23:03
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, but it's just good.
23:05
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
23:05
[SPEAKER_02]: We have to remember that these, these women aren't coming to us because they're thriving.
23:11
[SPEAKER_02]: They're not, you know, these women are hurting.
23:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
23:15
[SPEAKER_01]: And I just, and I don't mean to cut you off, but I just have to say, but I'm going to cut you off right now, Katie.
23:21
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I'm not.
23:22
[SPEAKER_01]: But I just have to say that,
23:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Drills at home even more to everyone listening when they want to know the, you know, length of stay of treatment and I have said this on many episodes, you know, the first time I went to treatment, I did the 30 days, my mom checked the box, I checked the box, second time my mom's like, now we're going to do it their way, which means if you're going to ask me how long treatment is I'm going to say it says how long's a piece of string, right, why she said that and this is what's so true is building the trust.
23:54
[SPEAKER_01]: being able to see somebody in their element in, you know, good and bad, you know, it takes time.
24:02
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not something we can squeeze in three weeks or a month, you know, and so it does take time.
24:09
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think also, can I just add to the misconceptions of women's treatment just quickly as someone who was
24:16
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I will say this, you know, I know I've seen it is women like men are when we if they are let's say, let's put it down the substances or whatever they're using to self medicate while they're in treatment or being put down a lot of times we're seeing a lot of love addiction.
24:34
[SPEAKER_01]: And that and and parents are automatically think, Oh, if they did my daughters in a female treatment program, no relationships are going to go down.
24:42
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm here to say that sometimes that happens, you know, they absolutely go I I was in I was in treatment with men and women and at the time I I said I was bisexual and I remember the CEO at the time because I was dating a guy and a girl at some point in treatment because that's what we do.
25:00
[SPEAKER_01]: And not everybody, but that's what I did.
25:02
[SPEAKER_01]: And I remember the CEO said to him, because he was this old Kermagin Brewstriever, great man.
25:07
[SPEAKER_01]: But he said, he goes, Brett, you go, typically I still tell the guys to stick with the guys and the girls to stick with the girls.
25:12
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what the fuck to do with you, so look at the floor.
25:16
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, and it was true, but I'm just saying like there's a lot of, you know, I think that's a misconception as well that, you know, it is and so we're just teaching them how to have healthy relationships in general, you know, it is and it's not to take away that part right like this is if it's that you know when they're ready like obviously we have to look at each client where they're at, but when they're ready, it's also a really good opportunity.
25:40
[SPEAKER_02]: to have the support to really work on balance.
25:44
[SPEAKER_02]: And again, with women needing FEMA, we need friends.
25:48
[SPEAKER_02]: We need female friends.
25:49
[SPEAKER_02]: There's such this social media, it's social construct, like you need a man to care for you, to get right, you need to get married all of this stuff.
25:57
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's like, okay, everybody, let's pump the brakes first.
26:01
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, in some of it is developmentally normative, of course, and then some of it is this pressure that this is the next what I have to do to for whatever reason and yes, what a beautiful thing like, but it doesn't have to happen unless you want it, but it's what it, but relationships are absolutely beautiful and also.
26:20
[SPEAKER_02]: We also need friends.
26:21
[SPEAKER_02]: And so what that does is it creates that barrier?
26:24
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, okay, so now you're in a women's house to create female friendships.
26:28
[SPEAKER_02]: And then also introduce, you know, whatever, you know, that network is really, it's really, built in that, like I've said, you know, I have some great.
26:38
[SPEAKER_01]: therapist and treatment providers early in recovery, but there was two other women in my treatment program that to this day we are a tripod, but that, you know, with the same age, and we kind of just kept tabs on each other and we were friends and they inspired me to want to stay on this track, you know, when I had nothing else, you know, and so, um,
26:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I think that that is important.
27:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Also, you know, Becky, what would you say, well, what would you tell a woman if, you know, and or a family looking for treatment for their daughter or a husband looking for their wife or wife looking for their wife or any female, if you're looking for women, gender-specific treatment, what are, what, you know, what's your
27:29
[SPEAKER_03]: for us a green flag.
27:31
[SPEAKER_03]: What are the green flags we are above there?
27:36
[SPEAKER_03]: The word counselor, which we have counselors as well, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.
27:41
[SPEAKER_03]: But we have certified technicians, and then we have counselors, and we have therapists, and then we have psychologists, and then we have psychiatrists.
27:49
[SPEAKER_03]: You want to make sure that there's an actual multidisciplinary team.
27:55
[SPEAKER_03]: that's really important, especially for women's treatment.
27:57
[SPEAKER_03]: We, we not only need to look at them at the mental health side, the addiction side, we need to have physical side.
28:04
[SPEAKER_03]: When's the last time you had a papspie?
28:06
[SPEAKER_03]: I am you, you know, checks of things if you weren't, you know, assigned female at birth, like, what do you need to do?
28:13
[SPEAKER_03]: Where do you like, there's a whole thing often or overlooked
28:19
[SPEAKER_03]: have not been taken care of yourself.
28:21
[SPEAKER_03]: So I think that you want to look for a multidisciplinary team.
28:26
[SPEAKER_03]: I took kind of piggyback on what Katie said.
28:29
[SPEAKER_03]: I would say he's first statement to you is that your daughter or wife or loved one is coming to treatment to get a proper diagnosis.
28:41
[SPEAKER_03]: That is a red flag to me.
28:45
[SPEAKER_03]: Green flag would be I would like to get to know your daughter.
28:48
[SPEAKER_03]: I would like to get to know your
28:50
[SPEAKER_03]: I like to work for them long term.
28:52
[SPEAKER_03]: I would like to see what she thinks she needs.
28:56
[SPEAKER_03]: I would like to know what the family thinks she needs.
29:01
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, he said a best when she was like, I want to lead with curiosity, like, if if this is not a diagnostic situation in the first 30, 60 90 days, like let's give it a minute if there are not family update calls if there's not family there because if there's no family program, that would be a red flag to me one thing I just if I can, I just want to add on to Becky, Becky's question is, um,
29:31
[SPEAKER_02]: you know, and treatment centers who are not equipped or not, their, their model is not for a certain, what the, what the parents are looking for.
29:42
[SPEAKER_02]: Hearing that, you know, this is maybe not, our model is absolutely set up to support your daughter.
29:49
[SPEAKER_02]: We recommend here are some referrals.
29:52
[SPEAKER_02]: That to me, also, that's a green flag.
29:56
[SPEAKER_03]: are you at the program?
29:58
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, do you actually know anyone at the program?
30:02
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, for us, sweetman center, if you call me and say, this is what, you know, A, B, and C, I mean, Katie and I have spoken on numerous occasions, Hannah and I have spoken on numerous occasions, where I'm like, no, that isn't a good fit right now, right?
30:15
[SPEAKER_01]: So, I want to talk to Katie before I wrap up with my favorite question.
30:22
[SPEAKER_01]: But, um,
30:24
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is, this is, I think, is very important.
30:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Really, get away.
30:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Get away.
30:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Get away.
30:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, this is such a big question for you, Katie, because it's, it's never ending.
30:36
[SPEAKER_01]: It's, how does we're, how does recovery continue?
30:40
[SPEAKER_01]: We're, and when I say recovery, everyone listening, viewing, I'm talking about one's mental health, whether they're self-medicating with substances, whether it's eating, whether you know what it is, because untreated mental health is,
30:54
[SPEAKER_01]: all that we are talking about with addiction and everything like that.
30:57
[SPEAKER_01]: So what I mean by recovery is how does one's recovery and healing continue after residential treatment?
31:05
[SPEAKER_01]: and how long does it, you never graduate, right?
31:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
31:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Never graduate.
31:08
[SPEAKER_02]: No, no, there is no graduation, but that's an easy one for me.
31:11
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, they transition over to rewrite recovery, obviously.
31:14
[SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.
31:15
[SPEAKER_03]: Everyone does.
31:17
[SPEAKER_02]: That's what happens after residential treatment.
31:19
[SPEAKER_02]: But no, and again, like this, first of all, these questions are so beautifully woven to connect and because,
31:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
31:26
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, recovery like residential treatment is is invaluable, right?
31:31
[SPEAKER_02]: It's invaluable.
31:32
[SPEAKER_02]: And there is no as, you know, just to kind of go back to what you said about time lines.
31:37
[SPEAKER_02]: Like we don't want to put a timeline on our wellness, you know, and my level of care I can tell you that people can white knuckle it for 30 days.
31:44
[SPEAKER_02]: That's just acclimating, you know, and we don't really see any
31:48
[SPEAKER_01]: through that you said that I quoted the movie 28 days for those 28 days with Sandra Bullock.
31:55
[SPEAKER_01]: I just seen it before I went in.
31:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Go on.
31:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Sorry.
31:57
[SPEAKER_02]: We don't really, we don't really see that the real stuff come out until between 60 and 90.
32:05
[SPEAKER_02]: But.
32:06
[SPEAKER_02]: But what is so, again, vital, it's crucial, right?
32:12
[SPEAKER_02]: Is we don't recover in isolation.
32:14
[SPEAKER_02]: We recover in connection and relationships.
32:17
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
32:18
[SPEAKER_02]: And building that foundation, whether it's, you know, in friendships and building purpose, accountability, support, connection, all of those pieces.
32:28
[SPEAKER_02]: Those are what are going to support
32:32
[SPEAKER_02]: building self-esteem, building self-worth.
32:35
[SPEAKER_02]: I think all women have those, you know, have inner strength, self-worth and resilience.
32:40
[SPEAKER_02]: We just were just there to help them rediscover it.
32:43
[SPEAKER_02]: And that happens through connection, through purpose, through accountability, all of those things.
32:48
[SPEAKER_02]: And so.
32:50
[SPEAKER_02]: like continuing the trajectory, right?
32:53
[SPEAKER_02]: Because you get out of residential, residential is really containing, right?
32:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Life is filled with stressors, life is an issue.
33:01
[SPEAKER_02]: You know?
33:02
[SPEAKER_02]: And so having that oversight of support as you navigate and start to build out your life through the support of, you know, supportive living.
33:10
[SPEAKER_02]: the support of private practice or Iopee or whatever it is, right?
33:14
[SPEAKER_02]: You start to getting a job going back to school, right?
33:18
[SPEAKER_02]: Having life skills on your own and all of that, which has such an impact on our self-esteem.
33:24
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, the little tasks, the little tasks like making your bad, right?
33:28
[SPEAKER_02]: Build up the courage to take on the next task and then, you know, in the next task.
33:33
[SPEAKER_02]: And we just, we don't do this alone, right?
33:36
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, and we can't do it alone.
33:40
[SPEAKER_01]: It's funny, it's funny which I'm making the bed because I was I always learned in recovery.
33:46
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm a maid bed is a maid head and people may argue with me.
33:49
[SPEAKER_01]: But I know of it's so funny.
33:51
[SPEAKER_01]: I've had interventionists and referral sources come to pick up a young woman at a treatment facility.
33:56
[SPEAKER_01]: I worked at and within five minutes they'll call me.
33:59
[SPEAKER_01]: After this young woman has been, you know, in this program let's say three months, six months,
34:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Just walking into her bedroom, just seeing what a mess it is, said, no, she's not ready.
34:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Because if this is what the room is, that is what her head is like right now.
34:14
[SPEAKER_01]: And it doesn't need to be immaculate.
34:17
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's how are you?
34:18
[SPEAKER_01]: And again, this takes time.
34:21
[SPEAKER_01]: And, and I feel that if you're able to, and for those listeners and viewers out there who are not able to utilize, you know, extended care or sober living or even go to residential treatment at times, it's just this commitment that you will find a way with, you know,
34:51
[SPEAKER_01]: with all respect to resident treatment staying good in residential or showing up good.
34:56
[SPEAKER_01]: That's, it's, you know, at least for the first 30 days, that's not so difficult.
35:01
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just when you leave when you like I remember the first thing when I didn't go into extended or listen to, uh,
35:09
[SPEAKER_01]: clinical recommendations.
35:11
[SPEAKER_01]: By the way, that's very important.
35:12
[SPEAKER_01]: You'll hear that on every episode.
35:13
[SPEAKER_01]: And if I haven't said it yet, I'm going to say it.
35:15
[SPEAKER_01]: If you, or love one, are in treatment, it's really simple, guys.
35:19
[SPEAKER_01]: We don't need to overcomplicate it.
35:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Listen to clinical recommendations.
35:24
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you don't know what to do next, if you don't know what to do,
35:27
[SPEAKER_01]: with ABC just turn it over to them because they are right.
35:31
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, and what I mean by that is I did not listen and I remember the next day, I think it was just a simple exercise of going to, because we didn't have Uber Eats back in the day when I went and I went to a restaurant to pick up my food and had to sit at the bar to wait for my food to come.
35:48
[SPEAKER_01]: I was an alcoholic, I had 31 days sober, quote unquote, that was a doozy, right?
35:55
[SPEAKER_01]: And I did relapse, but I'm just saying those life skills that people take, you have to understand this didn't happen overnight.
36:02
[SPEAKER_01]: these these coping skills that that we've we've come up with just to make us get through the day.
36:08
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's going to take time and and and to this day I say like, you know, we all just have to keep tabs on our recovery on our mental health.
36:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, you know, and and keep, you know, recognizing that we're all kind of under construction, but I also want to stress this and I've stressed this before is, you know, a very special woman to me in the industry once told me as she's an admissions director and it's so true women men children anybody anybody was able to utilize.
36:41
[SPEAKER_01]: treatment or ask for help and get the help.
36:45
[SPEAKER_01]: It is an opportunity, ladies and gentlemen, to become a better version of yourself.
36:50
[SPEAKER_02]: Which somebody had really like introduced an antidepressant to me at a young age.
36:55
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?
36:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Or like diagnosed me at a young age?
36:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Because what ended up happening is I did have untreated anxiety and I am, I do have
37:08
[SPEAKER_01]: withdrawing alcohol.
37:10
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, and I think that's I think that's coming for most I don't want to generalize, but for most right we're all it's in escape.
37:18
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's what we're trying to do is is again, for me it's, you know, yes, we're going to be met with.
37:26
[SPEAKER_02]: and bivalent as it's all of those things.
37:29
[SPEAKER_02]: Some people like to call it resistance.
37:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Whatever you want to call it, but like to call it analysis paralysis, continue.
37:35
[SPEAKER_02]: Analysis paralysis, but what we're really experiencing is fear, just a deep sea to fear and hurt and we're trying to connect in that relationship to empower, empower, right, empower them
37:54
[SPEAKER_02]: create, continue to build this life, that they don't no longer want to escape from and want to live.
38:01
[SPEAKER_02]: And that was good.
38:04
[SPEAKER_01]: That's it.
38:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Ladies, we're running at a time, but not out of no.
38:08
[SPEAKER_01]: And I would like to just end.
38:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, yes, hangar.
38:14
[SPEAKER_01]: What do you mean that was going?
38:16
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like that everyone does that.
38:17
[SPEAKER_01]: We're not
38:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, you know, I, you know what other my other banger is that I, if I start doing merch, I really want to put this out there because it's so true for everybody, every parent, especially if you're powerless out there, I love this line, whoever has the pesos has the pesos.
38:39
[SPEAKER_01]: And that is true.
38:40
[SPEAKER_01]: If my children gave, when I have a family member who ever has the pesos, you do has the pesos.
38:46
[SPEAKER_01]: I was no writing.
38:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, really?
38:49
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sorry that it's not
38:52
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm sorry, so basically it ruined your life.
38:57
[SPEAKER_03]: I have no earphones.
38:58
[SPEAKER_03]: There goes my quote.
38:59
[SPEAKER_03]: Those of you who are listening, Becky doesn't have a last question.
39:04
[SPEAKER_03]: The question that I live on a funeral nurse.
39:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Having worse night ever.
39:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, yes, so forgot to tell everybody.
39:12
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm tuning in from the UK, hence why I have the UK telephone.
39:16
[SPEAKER_03]: I want them to know, and what I really want them to hear is that
39:21
[SPEAKER_03]: the feelings of their experience is not different than other mothers feelings.
39:28
[SPEAKER_03]: Their experiences may be different, but every mother feels out of control when their kid is not doing well in whatever that means.
39:38
[SPEAKER_03]: And so oftentimes mothers feel very isolated when their kids are struggling and kids could be an 18 year old or a 35 year old or unfortunately a 50 year old, right?
39:50
[SPEAKER_03]: But you feel there is that connection with how intense the feeling is when it's your mother.
39:57
[SPEAKER_03]: And so what I want to know is that that is not just them that everybody's feeling this really intensely and that that is kind of the whole
40:07
[SPEAKER_03]: Uh, promise is to kind of figure out how to tolerate the intensity of all these feelings and figure out where we need to go.
40:13
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
40:14
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
40:14
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
40:17
[SPEAKER_01]: And you can love the shit out of these kids of yours, but you can't mom your way through any of it.
40:23
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean, unfortunately, there's no mom.
40:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Ism that will help with mental health and addiction.
40:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, Katie, what is what are some parting words you want someone to hear.
40:35
[SPEAKER_02]: So you know, going back to your your beautiful transition into this into this space right now this last question I would say it's hope and saying that you know reminding them that recovery is possible and we see it every day right and you know to echo what Becky said about the intensity of their feelings.
40:56
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
40:57
[SPEAKER_02]: And normalize that and also, you know, really kind of support them in getting their own support because they're just deserving as their child.
41:08
[SPEAKER_02]: And that we are, yeah, we are committed and dedicated to doing the best we can in supporting of their loved one and.
41:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, we're here for them as well, you know, and ideally, I mean, this never really happens although we wanted to happen.
41:22
[SPEAKER_01]: It does happen sometimes.
41:24
[SPEAKER_01]: I often say to families, please don't plan in crisis, try to do it.
41:29
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, like I have so many families who will call in crisis, which is fine, and we can figure that out.
41:34
[SPEAKER_01]: But typically, if you feel like this is looming, you know what I mean?
41:38
[SPEAKER_01]: And you
41:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Or you think this could be an option, start calling now, start looking at options now, so you're not rushed.
41:47
[SPEAKER_01]: This is a major decision and process and investment in the loved one.
41:51
[SPEAKER_01]: It's okay.
41:53
[SPEAKER_01]: And you don't want to be rushed.
41:54
[SPEAKER_01]: And also what you can do with that is just like Katie says, there's always hope.
41:59
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you're not ready today, you'll be ready, you know,
42:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe in a month from now.
42:06
[SPEAKER_01]: And when I say you being ready, again, we would love the client.
42:11
[SPEAKER_01]: I was right out the gate coming in, but typically with an adolescent adult, young adult, doctor, pilot, wrestler, musician, you name it everybody.
42:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Me included.
42:23
[SPEAKER_01]: We don't want to go in and if we do say we want to go in, it's typically because we run out of drugs and alcohol or a mental health is totally taken a tank and so we're agreeing to it in the moment.
42:33
[SPEAKER_01]: But I'm just saying it's about, you know, there's hope for that.
42:38
[SPEAKER_01]: And there's professionals to help you get there, but like it doesn't have to be.
42:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Please know that we're not going anywhere.
42:45
[SPEAKER_01]: We're always here.
42:46
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, on the other end of the phone.
42:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, ladies, I can't thank you enough.
42:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Becky, get Dula from rising roads, recovery.
42:55
[SPEAKER_01]: I got Katie Eyer from rewrite recovery.
42:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Two amazing places in California for women.
43:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Two places I like to use.
43:02
[SPEAKER_01]: And I just, I have to say, thank you so much for being here on the show.
43:06
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is another episode of Connect Call until next week.
43:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Wow.
43:10
[SPEAKER_01]: So tune in next week and talk to you later.
43:16
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you so much.
43:18
[SPEAKER_02]: Love you, ladies.
43:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for tuning into this episode of Connect Call.
43:23
[SPEAKER_01]: As we conclude, remember that insights shared are intended for informational and educational purposes only and should not substitute professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment.
43:33
[SPEAKER_01]: We strongly recommend consulting a qualified medical, health professional, or health care provider for personalized advice, tailored to your unique needs.
43:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Your mental health journey is important and having the right support is essential.
43:46
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're experiencing a mental health crisis or require immediate assistance, please reach out to a mental health provider or emergency services in your area.
43:55
[SPEAKER_01]: We're grateful to have you as part of our community and your well-being remains our priority.
43:59
[SPEAKER_01]: So follow us on social media to stay connected and be sure to catch one of our episodes on our YouTube channel.
44:06
[SPEAKER_01]: We're here to support you every step of the way.