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Weapons Grade Gorgeous w/ Mehran Khaghani | Reasonably Happy with Paul Ollinger · Reasonably Happy with Paul Ollinger

0:00
This is gonna be a warning before this is gonna be a
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conversation with one of my
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favorite people in New York City it is gonna address politics
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some of you won't
0:07
like it there's gonna be some very graphic language and topics
0:11
addressed don't let
0:13
your kids watch this unless they're cool that would be
0:15
ridiculous to work with
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SPEAKER_01: someone for 20 years and not know just how weird they are
0:20
SPEAKER_01: You're never going to be perfectly happy all the time.
0:22
SPEAKER_01: The best you can hope for is to be reasonably happy.
0:24
SPEAKER_01: Reasonably happy Most of the time
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SPEAKER_01: In Farsi, how do you say it?
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And if you don't,
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but you really,
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like,
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every,
0:56
every syllable has to feel like jihad.
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SPEAKER_01: Every syllable has to feel like jihad.
1:01
SPEAKER_01: Do you got that?
1:02
SPEAKER_01: It's a political.
1:03
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
1:03
SPEAKER_00: There's the introduction.
1:04
SPEAKER_00: My guest today is Mehran Khagani.
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SPEAKER_00: He is a New York based comedian and actor,
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SPEAKER_00: a stage actor who has worked with many,
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SPEAKER_00: many wonderful people,
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SPEAKER_00: including Mr.
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SPEAKER_00: Steven Soderbergh.
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SPEAKER_00: I met him.
1:18
years ago at the Red Clay Comedy Festival in Atlanta Georgia
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founded co-founded by
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our producer Mike Albanese that's right and Gilbert Lawund yeah
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and Jen O'Neill
1:30
Smith three wonderful human beings who produce a great comedy
1:34
festival Mehran it's
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delightful to see you again it's really nice to be here hi Paul
1:39
why were you late
1:41
what what possible excuse could you possibly have solid so you
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know I I would
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obviously I'd want to just take a car because you know a little
1:51
bit of a lazy bird
1:52
we both live in the Upper West so which means getting to the
1:55
east midtown area is
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not convenient just like the east side in general it's like
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what are we doing right
2:00
what is anyone doing and so I was gonna take a cab but the cab
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said it was gonna be
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SPEAKER_01: 29 minutes and the train said 22
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SPEAKER_01: Seven Minute Differential In New York, that's a lifetime, right?
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SPEAKER_01: So I leave the house early.
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SPEAKER_01: I'm going to even catch it early.
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And then someone one stop down from us,
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which is actually your stop,
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was pushed onto the track.
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SPEAKER_01: I'm at 96.
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SPEAKER_00: Say that again, because I just stepped on your line.
2:25
SPEAKER_01: Not at all.
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SPEAKER_01: No, someone was pushed onto the tracks at 86.
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SPEAKER_00: Holy fuck.
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SPEAKER_00: My kids are in that station by themselves sometimes.
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SPEAKER_01: I know.
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SPEAKER_01: It's a scary thing.
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SPEAKER_01: This is disturbing.
2:37
SPEAKER_01: It's a scary and disturbing thing.
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SPEAKER_01: I also, like, I don't know what that looks like.
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SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
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SPEAKER_01: I do know that,
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SPEAKER_01: like,
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SPEAKER_01: that while I was riding here,
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SPEAKER_01: I was like,
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SPEAKER_01: the kind of anger I feel toward the person who did the pushing,
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SPEAKER_01: it,
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SPEAKER_01: I think I'm officially New York broken.
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SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm not thinking about the loss of life.
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SPEAKER_01: I'm not thinking about, like,
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The impact of that loss of life I'm thinking about how do we
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punish the pusher for
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SPEAKER_01: making me late?
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SPEAKER_01: Not even because of what they cost humanity From the bottom of my heart,
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SPEAKER_01: that's the only thing I was thinking about It's a broken,
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SPEAKER_01: that isn't how we're supposed to be And I'm,
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SPEAKER_01: you know,
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SPEAKER_01: obviously election rage,
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SPEAKER_01: everything is rage Why is everything rage?
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SPEAKER_00: Well, we don't know why this person pushed this other person.
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SPEAKER_00: It could be mental illness.
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SPEAKER_00: Well, it's a mental illness of some kind or another.
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SPEAKER_01: They could have had a Trump poster.
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SPEAKER_01: In which case, I'm glad I'm late.
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SPEAKER_00: It could have been a mob hit.
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SPEAKER_01: Oh, God.
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SPEAKER_01: You think the mob does that?
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SPEAKER_01: Does the mob?
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SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
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SPEAKER_01: I don't know if the mob still be hitting.
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SPEAKER_01: Do mobs be hitting?
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SPEAKER_00: Bro, the mob be hitting like nobody's business.
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SPEAKER_01: I mean, honestly, does the mob, what is that?
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SPEAKER_01: I worked for the mob.
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SPEAKER_01: Did you?
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SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
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SPEAKER_00: In what capacity?
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I was a waiter at a total money laundering restaurant in Bay
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Ridge,
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like back in 2000.
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SPEAKER_00: Is there any other kind?
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SPEAKER_01: It was the most,
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SPEAKER_01: like,
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there were maybe five patrons in the full three months before I
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got fired.
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SPEAKER_01: And, like, no one was ever there.
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SPEAKER_01: No money was made.
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SPEAKER_01: I was wasted.
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SPEAKER_01: And yeah, but everything was cash.
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SPEAKER_01: Everything was cash and no receipts.
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SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
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SPEAKER_00: Totally insane.
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You think there's many comedy clubs that are fronts for money
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laundering operations?
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No,
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I mean,
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they're all I mean,
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if only they would be much more permissive,
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wouldn't they?
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SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
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SPEAKER_01: They would give less of a shit.
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SPEAKER_01: Did you hear that?
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SPEAKER_01: Because money laundering places like in general, they're not run tightly.
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Right Right Because they're just Their profit center Is not
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margin on French fries
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That's right And to an extent They're looking to lose money
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Right Like they're
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SPEAKER_01: looking To be able to say That this is a money lose
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SPEAKER_00: Did you hear the story about Jerry Seinfeld?
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It was either like the comic strip or Dangerfields in the 70s
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where somebody was
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SPEAKER_00: heckling him and Jerry shut him down.
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SPEAKER_00: And after the show,
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SPEAKER_00: like the manager came up to Jerry and was like,
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SPEAKER_00: we got to get you out the side door.
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SPEAKER_00: That was a made guy.
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SPEAKER_00: They own this place.
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SPEAKER_01: Okay.
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SPEAKER_00: Can you imagine that happening?
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SPEAKER_01: Of course I can.
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SPEAKER_01: I mean, listen, the world is just lousy with errant egos.
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SPEAKER_01: Do you know what I mean?
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SPEAKER_01: It's just like, there's no negotiating around it.
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SPEAKER_01: There's no compensating for it.
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You are just going to run into lunatics whenever you run into
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lunatics in this life.
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SPEAKER_00: Like that is- Says the most straight down the middle guy I've ever met.
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SPEAKER_01: I am straight down the middle.
5:33
SPEAKER_01: I am straight down the middle.
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SPEAKER_01: I am.
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SPEAKER_01: I think there are good people on both sides.
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SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right.
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SPEAKER_00: Which side or what is what is the barrier we're talking about?
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SPEAKER_01: I do not believe that there are good people on both sides.
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I think that there is a side that you pick where in clearly
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your soul is dog shit
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SPEAKER_01: and I can't wait for you to know,
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SPEAKER_01: like stop polluting the earth with your broken spirit.
5:53
SPEAKER_01: That is the only thing I cannot wait for like it's Thanos.
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SPEAKER_01: I want like a Trump Thanos.
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SPEAKER_01: I want a conservative Thanos.
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SPEAKER_01: What does that mean?
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SPEAKER_01: Snap and then half the population disappears.
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SPEAKER_00: I see.
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SPEAKER_00: Okay.
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SPEAKER_00: At least you're clear on that.
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SPEAKER_01: I'm so clear on it.
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SPEAKER_01: There was a time where I was like,
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SPEAKER_01: you know,
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SPEAKER_01: it's all just people,
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SPEAKER_01: you know,
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SPEAKER_01: and everyone is ultimately getting had by certain powers that be.
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SPEAKER_01: I agree with that.
6:17
SPEAKER_01: Right.
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SPEAKER_01: And if we could just come together on the fact that,
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SPEAKER_01: you know,
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SPEAKER_01: it's an oligarchy,
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it's a kleptocracy and the extent to which power and money has
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been consolidated,
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SPEAKER_01: it fucks everyone.
6:29
SPEAKER_01: Right.
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SPEAKER_01: Utilaterally.
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SPEAKER_01: That would be the hope.
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SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
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in toward the greater good of mankind they absolutely their
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vote should be taken
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from them their rights should be taken from them they should be
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caged they should
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be beaten they should be humiliated they should be pissed on
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that is a very
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articulate argument for democracy and freedom fine with it no
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absolutely not we we
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need we that democracy you have to like test into democracy
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okay you cannot just be
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SPEAKER_01: given democracy okay right you should not just get a say
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yeah because you know you like you could be a a somewhat I
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don't know wearing a
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bare skin invading a cap like the capital like you could be
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that person has to be
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talked to before um their vote before their voice gets to have
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an impact who talk
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who interviews them and and decides whether or not I I will
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volunteer myself okay I
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SPEAKER_01: will
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I'll sit down with each of them and in fact I feel like in most
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cases I'm not even
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gonna have to talk to them do you know what I mean a lot of
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times it's just
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dentition and I don't care I don't give a shit I am I am
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talking about your shitty
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teeth I know you can't read like we have to stop being kind
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about this do you know
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what I mean when someone is worthless do you know what I mean
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it reads it just
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fucking reads you're talking about all my neighbors and friends
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in Atlanta Georgia
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SPEAKER_01: I'm so sorry that you had to live next to them like
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It is These are people you want with you No In a foxhole Yes
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they are No absolutely
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not They're good human beings No I would rather have like a
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chemist who knows how
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to make good Like I would rather Don't get me wrong I know like
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there are some good
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SPEAKER_01: survivalist people out there but like
8:26
SPEAKER_01: I mean, just because of their survival skills.
8:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I mean, like, get into their shelter and then kill them.
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SPEAKER_01: Like, you cannot cohabitate with these people.
8:33
SPEAKER_01: You take advantage of them, like, as much as humanly possible.
8:37
SPEAKER_01: They are easily seduced.
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SPEAKER_01: If they are seducible by Trump, they are seducible by anything, right?
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SPEAKER_00: This man is not high charisma.
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SPEAKER_00: All right, I want...
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I don't agree with all of this however I find it fascinating
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because of your very
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unique background right so the very first thing I remember you
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saying is something
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SPEAKER_00: the fact that you are an Iranian gay person
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SPEAKER_00: And you're like, oh, well, that's interesting.
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SPEAKER_00: I didn't think there were any gays in Iran.
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SPEAKER_00: That's so funny.
9:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
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SPEAKER_01: Obviously, there are gays in Iran.
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SPEAKER_00: You were born in London, raised in Iran.
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SPEAKER_00: Raised some in Iran.
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SPEAKER_00: Raised in Iran, Turkey, the UK, and the United States.
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SPEAKER_00: Did I get that right from your Wikipedia?
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SPEAKER_01: Mostly the United States with layovers,
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SPEAKER_01: like lengthy,
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SPEAKER_01: I would call them more extended layovers in Turkey and the UK.
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SPEAKER_01: And then, you know, a couple years in Iran.
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So break it down for me Like how did What would your folks do
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How'd they How'd they
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find themselves In the UK Father's a neuropsychiatrist Oh
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interesting What does
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SPEAKER_01: that What does that mean Neuropsychiatrist My god Uh
9:43
I mean kind of it's psychiatry but like a sort of like
9:48
neurophysiological approach
9:50
to it he wrote I believe seven books in total on ECT on
9:56
electro-compulsive therapy
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on electroshock therapy and its applications in placebo sort of
10:02
therapies where
10:04
SPEAKER_01: there might be some idiopathic or untreatable psychiatric ailment
10:07
SPEAKER_01: And no medication treats it.
10:09
SPEAKER_01: No behavioral sort of correction treats it.
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SPEAKER_01: And my father would then go in and give this person volts to the temples.
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SPEAKER_01: They convulse.
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SPEAKER_01: They come out of it.
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SPEAKER_01: And my father looks at them in a moment of sort of hypnotic suggestion.
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SPEAKER_01: And it's like, you're cured now.
10:23
SPEAKER_01: Really?
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SPEAKER_00: Really.
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SPEAKER_00: Did it work?
10:26
SPEAKER_00: All the time.
10:27
SPEAKER_01: Fucking crazy.
10:28
SPEAKER_01: I know.
10:29
SPEAKER_01: Trauma is crazy.
10:30
SPEAKER_00: Was he?
10:31
SPEAKER_00: But so...
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SPEAKER_00: Shock Therapy was a thing for a while and then it was no longer a thing.
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SPEAKER_01: It's still practiced.
10:39
SPEAKER_01: Is it?
10:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
10:40
SPEAKER_00: To what degree?
10:41
SPEAKER_01: I think like in domestically, I don't know.
10:45
I shouldn't speak on it because I'm not exactly an expert if
10:47
I'm not mistaken.
10:48
SPEAKER_00: Granted.
10:50
SPEAKER_01: Like it's pretty boutique in the United States now.
10:53
SPEAKER_01: It is not as ubiquitous.
10:54
SPEAKER_00: I don't want to brag, but I went in for a little touch up this weekend.
10:59
There are people for whom,
11:00
I mean,
11:00
because it does return brain chemistry to homeostasis.
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SPEAKER_01: It is like something that it does.
11:06
SPEAKER_01: So,
11:07
I believe it is much less used than it used to be And I don't
11:12
think that its
11:13
SPEAKER_01: purpose is necessarily to cripple the mind the way that,
11:15
SPEAKER_01: I mean,
11:15
SPEAKER_00: I think Once Upon a Time it was Just to sort of tweak it a little bit?
11:18
It's,
11:19
yeah,
11:19
zap Wow So what was it,
11:23
did you always feel like you were an analysis growing up?
11:26
No,
11:27
no,
11:27
because in fact,
11:28
like my family felt very strongly that analysis was for the
11:32
weak
11:34
Right as in so here's what I know meaning if you can't take a
11:37
good shock to the old
11:38
noodle as in like is that what you need right right as in like
11:43
how far are we
11:43
escalating the degree to which you are psych uh psychologically
11:47
unfit to function
11:48
in the world right do you need a shock right so I and I know
11:52
that my parents are
11:53
SPEAKER_01: just like you need to go to confession oh if only if only no my family is
11:59
SPEAKER_01: religiously incredibly cynical right yeah um
12:03
SPEAKER_00: Although God, big on God.
12:04
SPEAKER_00: We love God.
12:05
SPEAKER_00: So was your dad a Persian Jew or are you Muslim?
12:10
SPEAKER_01: No, no, no, no, no.
12:10
SPEAKER_01: My father was too poor for religion.
12:12
SPEAKER_01: Like he was simply, he grew up too poor to- He couldn't afford God?
12:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I don't think you can.
12:18
SPEAKER_01: I think that like,
12:18
SPEAKER_01: you know,
12:20
SPEAKER_01: and I don't know that Islam is,
12:22
SPEAKER_01: the Islam of then,
12:24
SPEAKER_01: of like the,
12:25
SPEAKER_01: what,
12:26
SPEAKER_01: my father was,
12:27
SPEAKER_01: was he a 30s?
12:29
SPEAKER_01: 76.
12:29
SPEAKER_01: I was born in 76.
12:31
SPEAKER_00: So in the revolution was 79.
12:32
SPEAKER_01: He was 48 when I was born, my father.
12:35
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
12:35
SPEAKER_01: All right.
12:36
SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
12:38
SPEAKER_01: Older.
12:38
SPEAKER_01: He's older.
12:39
And I don't know that Islam was quite as predatory as sort of
12:44
like American
12:45
SPEAKER_01: Christianity is with its poor.
12:49
SPEAKER_01: So he wasn't necessarily given a hard sell into Islam.
12:53
SPEAKER_00: Right.
12:54
SPEAKER_00: Ever.
12:54
SPEAKER_00: But he left, did you go back when the Ayatollah was in power?
12:59
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
13:00
SPEAKER_01: Oh, really?
13:00
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
13:00
My parents decided to give their marriage one last shot and
13:03
they took their
13:03
SPEAKER_01: nine-year-old faggoty soda,
13:06
SPEAKER_01: like really feminine boy.
13:10
who like loved Madonna and Annie Lennox like culture club like
13:15
new wave synth pop
13:17
so that's like 85 fat gay kid yeah yeah in 85 that's exactly
13:22
right and they took
13:23
you back to the height of the Iran-Iraq war right the very
13:26
height our city's
13:27
SPEAKER_01: getting bombed every morning at 6 in the morning
13:30
SPEAKER_01: And like Saddam Hussein pirated our radio and said,
13:32
I'm going to bomb your city every day at six in the morning as
13:35
an alarm clock for
13:36
SPEAKER_01: the children.
13:37
SPEAKER_01: Nice.
13:37
SPEAKER_01: And he followed through.
13:39
SPEAKER_01: And my school didn't get bombed,
13:42
but my school was connected by tunnel to a hospital and that
13:46
hospital got bombed.
13:50
SPEAKER_01: So in essence, my school got bombed.
13:52
SPEAKER_00: Right.
13:52
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
13:55
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
13:56
SPEAKER_01: It was a really chaotic time to go back.
13:59
Your mom was back in Iran My mother decided to give our family
14:03
give my father one
14:04
last shot because my father never fully transitioned to America
14:07
at the time you
14:08
know revolution and and it does bring up a lot of sort of
14:12
interesting sort of
14:13
tangential conversations but like uh moving uprooting your
14:19
entire family as you
14:20
just did you came to New York right it was brutal it was brutal
14:23
there was a flood
14:24
SPEAKER_01: if I'm not mistaken
14:26
SPEAKER_01: Oh, he'd missed the flood.
14:28
SPEAKER_01: No bombs.
14:28
SPEAKER_01: No bombs.
14:29
SPEAKER_01: Yet.
14:29
SPEAKER_01: No bombs.
14:30
SPEAKER_01: Yet.
14:30
SPEAKER_01: But my father,
14:32
SPEAKER_01: who,
14:32
SPEAKER_01: again,
14:32
SPEAKER_01: was pretty old when I was born,
14:35
if he were to have come to America and transitioned to becoming
14:37
a doctor in
14:38
SPEAKER_01: America,
14:38
SPEAKER_01: he would have had to have taken English,
14:40
SPEAKER_01: like TOEFL,
14:41
SPEAKER_01: teachers of English as a foreign language test.
14:43
SPEAKER_00: His boards all over again.
14:44
SPEAKER_01: All of that all over again.
14:46
SPEAKER_01: And at his age,
14:47
SPEAKER_01: and he had built such a name and reputation for himself in Iran,
14:51
SPEAKER_01: he didn't want to sort of start over in that way.
14:55
to come to America and just be another Iranian doctor who's
14:58
been transplanted here.
15:00
SPEAKER_01: When he had like a wing of a university named after him,
15:02
SPEAKER_01: he was the president of that university briefly.
15:05
Like he really,
15:06
he had status and name and he didn't want to give that up,
15:09
not at his age.
15:10
SPEAKER_01: And so we didn't really see him that much.
15:13
SPEAKER_01: My parents decided to give that marriage one last shot.
15:15
SPEAKER_01: Both of my brothers were in college.
15:16
SPEAKER_01: We go back to Iran and it's
15:19
Just A Disaster No Bueno As They Say In Tehran Just Bombings
15:23
And Like You Know
15:24
There's Like Just Religious Zealots Everywhere You Look And You
15:29
Know As Is The Want
15:31
Of Religious Zealots They They Really Like They They Destroy A
15:35
Country So That Like
15:36
The People Who Are Brought To Their Knees Have To Sort Of
15:38
Subscribe To Their Sort
15:40
SPEAKER_01: Of Draconian Ethics And Codes Of Conduct In Life
15:49
So your mom's in the hijab and all that doing those and like
15:52
she's a diehard
15:53
feminist who was on a list to be executed back in the 70s for
15:56
writing feminist
15:57
writings and like you know her bangs are out all the time
16:00
because she's also fierce
16:01
and looks amazing saucy broad oh she's the baddest bitch in
16:05
town she just died in
16:07
January but yeah and so when did you come to this full of
16:14
rebellion when did you
16:15
SPEAKER_00: come to the states for good
16:17
SPEAKER_01: For Good is 1987, March of 1987, March 17th.
16:23
SPEAKER_00: You were 17?
16:24
SPEAKER_01: No, March 17th, 1987.
16:25
SPEAKER_01: I was 11.
16:25
SPEAKER_01: I was about to turn 11.
16:28
SPEAKER_00: So what did you think of the States?
16:30
SPEAKER_00: Did you feel like more... Did it take a while to adjust?
16:33
SPEAKER_00: I imagine it did.
16:34
SPEAKER_01: Back to America?
16:35
SPEAKER_01: Wait, had you...
16:37
SPEAKER_01: I was here from three to nine.
16:38
SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay.
16:39
SPEAKER_01: Three to nine.
16:39
SPEAKER_01: So I was like, you know, I came into consciousness in the United States.
16:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
16:44
I remember in my neighborhood in the south not known for its
16:49
international
16:50
cosmopolitan outlook but after the after the whole hostage
16:56
situation there's one
16:57
Iranian family in our neighborhood and of course people spray
17:01
painted their
17:01
driveway and all this kind of shit because they had no idea
17:05
that the Iranians that
17:06
moved over here were most likely not down with the revolution
17:10
obviously right
17:12
SPEAKER_00: So it's like you're Iranian.
17:14
SPEAKER_01: Again, people who shouldn't be allowed to vote.
17:16
SPEAKER_01: Like if you cannot make this most basic leap of logic, right?
17:22
SPEAKER_01: It is such like this person is escaping a theocratic fascist revolution.
17:27
SPEAKER_01: Surely.
17:28
SPEAKER_01: Surely they're the problem.
17:29
SPEAKER_00: Well, you know what I mean?
17:31
For every Democrat that can change a tire will allow that you
17:34
to eliminate one.
17:35
SPEAKER_01: There are plenty of Democrats who can change a tire.
17:37
SPEAKER_01: I know.
17:38
Changing a tire is just going to get that Democrat off of the
17:41
side of the road.
17:42
Voting against the general interests of the public is going to
17:47
fuck us all.
17:48
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
17:48
SPEAKER_01: What?
17:50
SPEAKER_00: What?
17:51
SPEAKER_00: You talked about being a flamboyant 11 year old.
17:56
SPEAKER_00: What was your father's approach to your emerging sexuality?
18:02
SPEAKER_01: So, this is so... God, this is... Wow.
18:05
SPEAKER_01: You really... You are attuned.
18:08
SPEAKER_01: So, when I was three years old, that's how early they knew it.
18:11
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
18:12
And when we...
18:14
My family dropped...
18:15
My father basically dropped us off in America.
18:17
When he was going back to Iran,
18:19
he said...
18:19
To my brothers,
18:20
he said,
18:21
keep an eye on him.
18:22
SPEAKER_01: He'll sell his ass for candy.
18:24
SPEAKER_01: Oh, my God.
18:27
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, and candy?
18:31
SPEAKER_01: Like, also candy?
18:33
SPEAKER_01: Wait a minute, this sounds pretty good And nerds?
18:37
SPEAKER_01: A box of nerds?
18:38
SPEAKER_01: So,
18:39
SPEAKER_01: like,
18:39
SPEAKER_01: I was,
18:41
SPEAKER_01: uh,
18:42
SPEAKER_01: I think,
18:42
SPEAKER_01: like,
18:42
SPEAKER_01: that was,
18:43
SPEAKER_01: like,
18:43
SPEAKER_01: I think there was a certain amount of no denying it
18:47
um you know he he rejected it wholesale and he panicked when I
18:51
came out and uh when
18:53
did you come out at 15 I started the gay straight alliance at
18:56
my high school with a
18:57
couple of friends and um it was that was in Lexington
19:03
Massachusetts god bless you I
19:05
read your Wikipedia which really needs to be updated I would
19:07
never bother I only I
19:09
I'm not saying you should do I'm saying the world I updated it
19:12
when it first
19:13
SPEAKER_01: happened because we I did a live nation show
19:17
SPEAKER_01: and they created Wikipedia entries for all of us.
19:21
SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's interesting.
19:22
And then I got an alert saying we're about to take yours down
19:25
because there's no
19:25
SPEAKER_01: corroborating anything.
19:26
SPEAKER_01: Oh, right.
19:27
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, you got it.
19:28
And like,
19:28
I just threw a bunch of shit there and no one has given a shit
19:30
since including myself.
19:31
SPEAKER_01: Right.
19:33
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, Lexington, Massachusetts is eventually- The British are coming.
19:39
SPEAKER_01: If only.
19:42
SPEAKER_00: They do and then they leave They do and then they leave And they're all
19:46
uncircumcised It's a mess So then I don't know It's What a
19:53
colorful life What a
19:54
SPEAKER_01: fluorescently colorful life No,
19:56
Lexington is where we landed And I start the Gay Straight
19:59
Alliance in my high
19:59
SPEAKER_01: school With a girl,
20:00
Amanda Palmer Who is in the Dresden Dolls Who became the
20:04
Dresden Dolls And she
20:05
eventually married Neil Gaiman The disgraced Neil Gaiman Why
20:08
was he disgraced?
20:09
SPEAKER_01: Disgrace.
20:10
SPEAKER_01: There's like a bunch of sexual harassment.
20:11
SPEAKER_01: There's a bunch of sex stuff.
20:13
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
20:14
SPEAKER_01: Did he do it?
20:14
SPEAKER_01: I haven't followed it.
20:15
SPEAKER_01: I haven't followed it one iota.
20:17
SPEAKER_01: And did he do it?
20:18
SPEAKER_01: Jesus Christ.
20:18
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
20:20
SPEAKER_00: Well, we're not here to talk about her or him.
20:21
SPEAKER_00: We're here to talk about you.
20:22
SPEAKER_01: But she and I started this group with our friend Fred.
20:25
SPEAKER_01: Was she gay?
20:26
No,
20:27
but she was,
20:28
I mean,
20:28
she turned out to be like a really colorful slut.
20:30
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
20:31
SPEAKER_01: Like a fabulous,
20:33
SPEAKER_01: like,
20:33
SPEAKER_01: you know,
20:33
SPEAKER_01: I don't think she really cared what went in her mouth whole year old.
20:36
SPEAKER_01: She was a rock star, right?
20:37
SPEAKER_00: But she was an ally before the term was being used.
20:40
SPEAKER_01: Oh, for sure.
20:41
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
20:41
SPEAKER_01: For sure.
20:41
SPEAKER_01: I mean, all of us were like just sort of,
20:44
There was this silver thread of hallucinogens and acid that
20:49
wove through all of
20:50
SPEAKER_01: this,
20:50
SPEAKER_01: where we just looked at a conservative world and we're like,
20:53
SPEAKER_01: what the fuck is going on?
20:55
That 90s Gen X energy,
20:59
we're the last year of Gen X,
21:00
we're the cutoff year.
21:01
And I don't know,
21:03
we just looked at it and we're like,
21:05
this is ridiculous.
21:07
SPEAKER_01: Let's build a community around feeling that this is ridiculous.
21:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
21:12
and did you achieve that goal yeah did it feel good to I'm
21:17
still friends be
21:17
yourself and like did you feel like coming out and starting
21:21
this was like the first
21:22
time you could be honest about who you were no I don't know I
21:26
don't know I I still
21:28
SPEAKER_01: wasn't like I was I was a compulsive liar like well until I was 18.
21:33
SPEAKER_00: what do you mean
21:34
Like I would fabricate huge swaths of my life and background in
21:42
order to adapt and
21:43
SPEAKER_01: survive and meet as little resistance as possible,
21:47
SPEAKER_01: try to curry favor with strangers as quickly as possible.
21:51
SPEAKER_01: Nothing was sort of born of integrity.
21:54
SPEAKER_01: Everything was sort of mutable and transactional.
21:57
SPEAKER_01: And what can I say to win this person as quickly as possible?
22:02
SPEAKER_00: Give me an example of that.
22:04
um god that's a that that it's a great question that I can't
22:10
even think like I
22:12
would uh say that that Lexington is a moneyed white suburb I
22:17
would exaggerate our
22:18
wealth in Iran which like we absolutely did not have proper
22:22
wealth in Iran
22:23
SPEAKER_01: My father waited to convert our money.
22:24
SPEAKER_01: It all became worthless after the revolution.
22:28
SPEAKER_01: So there was like a wealth flex.
22:30
And sincerely,
22:35
I have a lot of gaps in memory in terms of being able to even
22:40
pull it up.
22:42
SPEAKER_00: Why do you think that is?
22:42
SPEAKER_00: Well,
22:42
SPEAKER_01: I mean,
22:43
that's just so I'm a big and I know that like too much hay is
22:48
made out of like
22:49
SPEAKER_01: people talking about complex trauma all the time.
22:52
SPEAKER_01: I mean, everyone loves to be traumatized.
22:54
SPEAKER_01: It's a very it's it's quite fashionable to be traumatized.
22:56
SPEAKER_01: But like genuinely I was like beaten from the age of three.
22:59
SPEAKER_01: I survived bombings like it wasn't.
23:01
SPEAKER_00: You were beaten by your parents?
23:02
SPEAKER_01: By my brother.
23:04
SPEAKER_01: And eventually,
23:04
SPEAKER_01: yeah,
23:05
everyone in the family except for my middle brother really took
23:07
a swing at some
23:07
SPEAKER_00: point.
23:08
SPEAKER_00: And do you think that was because they were ashamed of your femininity?
23:11
SPEAKER_01: So there's a thing called family scapegoating syndrome,
23:14
SPEAKER_01: which I haven't fully unpacked,
23:17
SPEAKER_01: but there is a thing.
23:19
And sort of statistically it's visited upon like the youngest
23:23
most feminine
23:23
presenting boy in the family like statistically like the the
23:27
correlation is
23:28
undeniable and it's and it especially happens in families where
23:33
there is a sudden
23:34
loss in status and they take out all of their sort of errant
23:39
anger and frustration
23:41
SPEAKER_01: out on the the weak link
23:44
but it's not necessarily the weak link it's like the expressive
23:47
link it's the
23:47
colorful link interesting right and and so that kind of like
23:56
surviving that
23:57
SPEAKER_01: persevering through
23:58
something like that and still turning out to be a person who is
24:01
reasonably happy.
24:04
SPEAKER_01: It's not without its sort of costs.
24:06
SPEAKER_01: There are big gaps in memory.
24:09
SPEAKER_01: And then I don't know if you've ever heard of the ACE test.
24:11
SPEAKER_01: I talk about the ACE test all the time.
24:12
SPEAKER_01: No, I don't know.
24:13
SPEAKER_01: Adverse childhood experiences test.
24:15
SPEAKER_01: It's a 10 question test.
24:16
And when you are a four plus,
24:18
if you answer yes to four or more of these questions,
24:21
SPEAKER_01: There's a higher incidence of hypertension,
24:23
SPEAKER_01: diabetes,
24:24
SPEAKER_01: absenteeism from work in school,
24:25
SPEAKER_01: getting fired,
24:28
SPEAKER_01: obesity,
24:29
SPEAKER_01: drug abuse and addiction.
24:30
SPEAKER_01: We're gonna get to that.
24:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
24:32
SPEAKER_00: Where did you feel safe in those years?
24:34
SPEAKER_00: Theater, music.
24:35
SPEAKER_00: No shit.
24:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
24:37
SPEAKER_01: Sandy Peasley, choral teacher.
24:39
SPEAKER_00: Starting at what year?
24:40
SPEAKER_00: Starting, how old were you when you started theater?
24:42
SPEAKER_01: Eighth grade.
24:44
SPEAKER_00: What was your first?
24:44
SPEAKER_01: Pirates of Pennza.
24:45
SPEAKER_01: It's so weird.
24:47
SPEAKER_01: It's so weird to even break this up.
24:49
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
24:50
My 30 year high school reunion is like in like three weeks or
24:54
whatever and it's
24:55
just weird to even be talking about this because it's not
24:58
something I think about.
24:58
SPEAKER_01: Do you know what I mean?
24:59
SPEAKER_00: How do you, what role did you play?
25:01
SPEAKER_01: I was the major general.
25:03
SPEAKER_00: And how did it make you feel when you were on stage?
25:06
SPEAKER_01: Great except I flubbed my song.
25:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, on the one night I got to do it.
25:11
SPEAKER_01: You only had one show?
25:12
SPEAKER_01: They split the cast, so each cast got to do it once.
25:15
SPEAKER_01: And I totally ate my dick.
25:17
SPEAKER_01: Not totally ate my dick, I just fucked up one verse.
25:20
SPEAKER_01: And God, the powerlessness.
25:25
SPEAKER_01: I remember the frustration of it like it was yesterday.
25:30
SPEAKER_00: How many times a month do you think about that?
25:32
SPEAKER_00: Never.
25:33
SPEAKER_00: Never?
25:33
SPEAKER_00: Never.
25:34
SPEAKER_01: I mean, like, that's the thing.
25:35
SPEAKER_01: I have an amazing husband, wonderful dog, killer home.
25:39
SPEAKER_01: Do you know what I mean?
25:39
SPEAKER_00: Well, so I have all that.
25:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
25:41
SPEAKER_00: I mean, my version of that.
25:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you sure do.
25:43
SPEAKER_00: No husband that my wife knows about.
25:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
25:46
SPEAKER_00: So, but there's like, I fell on a blocked punt against our rival
25:52
and and instead of picking it up and running it into the end
25:54
zone my senior high
25:56
school and my life has been fantastic yeah I think about it all
26:00
the fucking time
26:01
that's very interesting I mean of course I I will like don't
26:05
get me wrong I will
26:06
SPEAKER_01: shudder at my own bad behavior yeah three four times a day I am
26:11
SPEAKER_01: I am in no way a well-regulated person.
26:14
SPEAKER_01: I am maladaptive to the nines.
26:17
SPEAKER_01: I'm constantly having to correct myself and how I relate to this world.
26:21
SPEAKER_01: And along the way, it is fair to say that I am probably 90% Karen.
26:31
Not from a racial profiling angle But I have zero tolerance for
26:35
incompetence Right?
26:38
SPEAKER_01: And I am my mother's son Meaning?
26:40
Like as in When logic is being defied By way of stupidity In
26:48
front of me I do not
26:49
know how to be a silent party to that I simply do not know how
26:53
to Let it slide,
26:55
man I don't have that But people know where they stand with you
26:58
100% of the time
27:01
SPEAKER_01: a hundred there's I so being a compulsive liar getting to 18 right
27:07
Like fabricating,
27:09
having very little sort of,
27:11
having no integrity,
27:12
right?
27:13
SPEAKER_01: I get to college, I'm 18, I take acid for the first time.
27:16
I take acid for the first time and I suddenly realize that I
27:20
have lived a massive
27:22
SPEAKER_01: falsehood,
27:23
SPEAKER_01: that I have betrayed myself by lying to others.
27:26
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
27:27
And that I have denied myself life's happiness,
27:32
that I had to cut the shit.
27:35
So I literally went quiet for about a month and a half and I
27:39
wouldn't speak unless
27:39
it was the absolute truth I went a little crazy and which again
27:46
when you think
27:47
about the life like of course the kid had to go a little crazy
27:49
at some point the
27:50
fact that I even presented as remotely sane leading up to that
27:55
was to my detriment
27:58
SPEAKER_01: I think
27:59
I mean like you gotta just sometimes like cry it out be crazy
28:02
except that you're in
28:02
a crazy situation so yeah so I went through that and and now I
28:07
uh I'm pretty bad at
28:09
faking it I'm and I don't do well like if I don't like someone
28:16
it's like within
28:18
SPEAKER_01: minutes it's gonna come up in minutes
28:20
SPEAKER_01: It's gonna end and it's not the greatest thing about me,
28:23
SPEAKER_01: but in the same breath when I like someone like I don't pay fail.
28:26
I don't pay false compliments when I'm happy to see someone
28:29
like I hope they feel
28:30
SPEAKER_01: that I'm happy to see them that I hold them in high regard or warmth,
28:34
SPEAKER_00: right?
28:35
SPEAKER_01: Like, as it, it's not, I don't, I don't want to, um,
28:39
And meanwhile,
28:40
we work in an industry that is just like full of incredibly
28:43
false people.
28:44
SPEAKER_00: So that's what I was going to ask you.
28:45
SPEAKER_00: Has your inability to suffer fools,
28:47
SPEAKER_00: your mom's son,
28:49
SPEAKER_00: as you say,
28:50
SPEAKER_00: has that hurt you in the entertainment business?
28:53
SPEAKER_01: All the time.
28:54
SPEAKER_01: And I'm pretty sure I'm blacklisted to some extent.
28:56
SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm... Oh, shit.
28:59
SPEAKER_01: Really?
28:59
SPEAKER_01: Oh, for sure.
29:00
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
29:00
SPEAKER_01: Kill the camera.
29:01
SPEAKER_01: No, no, no, no, no.
29:02
SPEAKER_01: You're fucking yourself by even talking to me.
29:04
Like there I don't know I do Of course it's Of course it's hurt
29:08
me It's not like
29:11
I'm blithely unaware Of how to Play the game Say the right
29:15
thing And skate through
29:16
life I can't fucking do it man I can't do it I am I am
29:20
constitutionally Incapable
29:21
of doing it Yeah Like I And some people And I honestly think
29:27
Did you Where do you
29:28
SPEAKER_01: think you land On like the The rough The rough beginning scale
29:32
SPEAKER_00: Rough beginning of what like that?
29:33
Let's say that I know you don't know the ACE test,
29:35
but childhood beginning.
29:37
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
29:37
SPEAKER_00: I think I had a very safe childhood,
29:41
but it was chaotic in the sense that my mom and dad stayed
29:45
together together for 55
29:47
SPEAKER_00: years.
29:47
SPEAKER_00: We were, I was part of a tribe, but the tribe it's, I'm one of six kids.
29:52
SPEAKER_00: There were a million people in my house all the time.
29:55
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
29:55
SPEAKER_00: And my mom's attention was stretched very thin.
29:58
SPEAKER_01: But it wasn't like drugs.
29:59
SPEAKER_01: No one was arrested.
30:00
SPEAKER_01: No, no, no.
30:01
SPEAKER_01: It was not.
30:01
SPEAKER_00: It was, it was, I mean, no, nothing like that.
30:04
SPEAKER_01: So different kind of chaos, but I, I appreciate that.
30:07
SPEAKER_00: So it was, it was very stable, just sort of.
30:11
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
30:12
SPEAKER_01: So what we know is that people who in general,
30:16
SPEAKER_01: uh,
30:17
SPEAKER_01: come through more adverse sort of circumstances,
30:23
in general things are harder yeah right so it's like if this
30:28
person like I just
30:31
SPEAKER_01: know for a fact that I have absolutely
30:35
I'm not good enough at emotionally self-regulating to pretend I
30:38
like someone when I
30:38
SPEAKER_01: don't like them.
30:39
SPEAKER_00: Right.
30:39
SPEAKER_00: Oh, interesting.
30:40
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
30:40
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I do the whole breathing and counting backwards from 36 thing.
30:44
SPEAKER_01: Do you guys ever miss me?
30:45
SPEAKER_01: No.
30:46
SPEAKER_01: No.
30:46
SPEAKER_00: I meditate, but I don't do that.
30:48
SPEAKER_01: I know.
30:48
SPEAKER_01: Sometimes, like, if I'm just about to bite someone's head off.
30:51
SPEAKER_01: You have to stop.
30:53
SPEAKER_01: I'm, like, going 36, 35, 34.
30:54
SPEAKER_01: Why 36?
30:56
SPEAKER_00: Why not 37?
30:57
SPEAKER_01: It's the number that worked.
30:59
It's the number.
31:00
SPEAKER_01: Because by the time I get to one, I'm like...
31:03
here's the other thing I can say okay so theater so from
31:08
whatever sixth or seventh
31:09
grade through college were you doing theater the whole time yes
31:14
and theater and
31:14
music a lot of singing you're a singer as well okay where were
31:18
you when you feel
31:20
felt in control of your life that was on stage yeah absolutely
31:25
and in like uh sort
31:27
SPEAKER_01: of
31:28
SPEAKER_01: You know,
31:29
SPEAKER_01: honest to God,
31:30
SPEAKER_01: not enough noise is made,
31:31
not enough sort of lip service is paid to the value of choral
31:37
music and singing in
31:38
SPEAKER_01: polyphony.
31:39
SPEAKER_01: What does polyphony mean?
31:41
SPEAKER_01: Harmonics, choral music.
31:44
There is something so incredibly healing and instantly
31:50
spiritually rewarding.
31:52
SPEAKER_01: as singing in a choir.
31:54
SPEAKER_00: I'm tone deaf.
31:55
SPEAKER_00: I've never been able to do that.
31:57
SPEAKER_01: There's just something about it.
31:59
SPEAKER_01: There's just something about it that is really feeling.
32:00
SPEAKER_00: Convergence with your fellow human?
32:03
SPEAKER_01: Well, it's also like there is a mystery in a harmony, in harmonics.
32:07
SPEAKER_01: There in general,
32:09
like there are a handful of physical properties in this world
32:12
that are just like
32:13
SPEAKER_01: astonishing,
32:14
SPEAKER_01: right?
32:14
Like in and of themselves that these rules happen in life and
32:18
the way that two
32:19
waves can sort of work in synchronicity with one another to
32:23
create like a a bigger
32:26
sound that also there's a whole physics of music to ghost
32:30
harmonics like it's it's
32:32
SPEAKER_01: a really special
32:36
SPEAKER_01: It's a special noise to observe.
32:37
We all love music,
32:39
but to be an agent of creating that sound is like it is
32:43
in that moment healing you're in the okay so Bee Gees Beach
32:47
Boys Everly Brothers
32:49
wow who are the best harmonizers like when you're in the Papas
32:53
Mamas and the Papas
32:54
right yeah yeah which song do you like the best um uh Creek
33:00
Alley is a good
33:01
harmonic like you know flex but I don't know if we're going to
33:05
talk Mamas and the
33:05
SPEAKER_01: Papas then we have to get into just like Mama Cass's solo album
33:08
yeah and like that entire album is just like you hear that poor
33:12
fat girl suffer and
33:13
it is just like oh like it is so beautiful yeah absolutely pain
33:19
yeah pain to learn
33:20
the transport by the pain as blind men learn the sun that is
33:23
say that again to
33:24
learn the transport by the pain as blind men learn the sun
33:28
where's that from that
33:29
SPEAKER_00: is Dickinson yeah
33:32
SPEAKER_00: You didn't memorize that by accident.
33:34
SPEAKER_00: Rapturous,
33:35
SPEAKER_01: ecstatic,
33:35
SPEAKER_01: no,
33:35
SPEAKER_01: no,
33:36
SPEAKER_01: no,
33:36
SPEAKER_01: To Die If They're Suspecting,
33:37
SPEAKER_01: The Brooks and Meadows Run,
33:38
SPEAKER_01: To Stay the Homesick,
33:39
SPEAKER_01: Homesick Feet Upon a Foreign Shore.
33:40
SPEAKER_01: But it is, no, in general, ecstatic poetry, big fan of ecstatic poetry.
33:47
SPEAKER_01: I love rapturous themes, of course.
33:49
SPEAKER_01: So 18 is acid.
33:53
SPEAKER_01: 19 is ecstasy.
33:54
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
33:55
SPEAKER_01: 19 is MDMA.
33:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
33:56
SPEAKER_01: And that's when we get to like the- What college were you at?
33:59
SPEAKER_01: UMass Amherst.
34:00
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
34:00
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
34:01
By the end of my academic career in high school,
34:03
I was either getting A's or F's.
34:05
SPEAKER_00: Right.
34:05
SPEAKER_01: There was absolutely no in between.
34:07
SPEAKER_00: Because you either cared or you did not care.
34:09
SPEAKER_01: I either cared or I didn't care.
34:10
SPEAKER_01: I couldn't even fake it.
34:12
SPEAKER_01: I was like, I was such a broken, shattered person.
34:14
SPEAKER_01: I mean, like black eyes at school.
34:17
SPEAKER_01: Like, oh, yeah.
34:18
SPEAKER_00: From fighting?
34:19
SPEAKER_01: From home beatings.
34:20
SPEAKER_00: Oh, wow.
34:20
SPEAKER_00: Holy shit.
34:21
SPEAKER_01: And
34:22
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there was, there was no masking the dysfunction.
34:26
SPEAKER_00: What did the school, how did the school address it?
34:29
SPEAKER_01: I had a guidance counselor tell me that if I,
34:32
SPEAKER_01: he said,
34:33
SPEAKER_01: listen,
34:33
SPEAKER_01: we can put you in foster care,
34:35
SPEAKER_01: but like,
34:35
SPEAKER_01: it's just going to disrupt your life even more.
34:37
SPEAKER_01: I think you should just shut up and then get to 18 and move out.
34:40
SPEAKER_00: Right.
34:41
SPEAKER_01: That was his advice to me.
34:43
SPEAKER_00: Well, how did you feel about that advice?
34:45
SPEAKER_01: What would you have liked to have happened in that situation?
35:08
SPEAKER_01: Uh, so I think my family would have responded better to community.
35:12
Like if the Iranians who were like acutely aware of what was
35:17
happening to me,
35:17
SPEAKER_01: if my aunt,
35:18
SPEAKER_01: my cousin,
35:19
like if that world had like rallied around like you can't just
35:23
beat this kid into
35:25
SPEAKER_01: non-existence,
35:25
SPEAKER_01: if that had happened,
35:27
SPEAKER_01: I think there would have at least,
35:28
SPEAKER_01: I would have felt like there was any kind of advocacy,
35:30
SPEAKER_01: that there was any kind of,
35:33
SPEAKER_01: um,
35:34
you know I've my cousins like it was absolutely no one was
35:39
sticking up for me
35:41
except I might like I had one Sandy Peasley she's gone but that
35:45
choral teacher like
35:46
tried to explain to my mother that like because they were also
35:49
trying to take me
35:49
out of like theater and music too because oh really because it
35:53
was too gay
35:54
SPEAKER_01: affirming right yeah right
35:56
SPEAKER_00: And the theater teacher did what?
35:58
SPEAKER_01: She was like, he needs this and you're not going to change him.
36:04
SPEAKER_01: And still I got pulled.
36:07
SPEAKER_01: Really?
36:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
36:08
SPEAKER_00: That's like fucking Good Will Hunting.
36:11
SPEAKER_00: Not Good Will Hunting.
36:11
SPEAKER_00: What's the movie?
36:14
SPEAKER_00: The Birdcage.
36:17
No but that was fantastic Robin Williams in the prep school one
36:23
Dead Poets Society
36:23
Dead Poets Society his dad pulls him out of the play and he
36:25
blows his brains out
36:27
which I thought they didn't quite set that up as well enough to
36:29
see the kid wasn't
36:30
troubled enough to blow his brains out again like this is the
36:34
thing like you know
36:35
people talk about gay of course in the 90s it was like you just
36:38
didn't see it you
36:39
couldn't tell these stories right you know and Dead Poets
36:42
Society I think is
36:42
SPEAKER_01: another example of a film that sort of like straight washed or like
36:46
Just made it about an artistic inclination Right You know what
36:49
I mean Yeah Because
36:50
that kid wasn't supposed to be gay Who knows I don't Well I
36:52
mean they didn't set
36:53
him up as a gay character They wouldn't have set him up as a
36:55
gay character Right
36:56
right Yeah God it's incredible how much things have changed
36:59
since then Yeah that's
37:00
SPEAKER_00: absolutely true Okay so sophomore year was MDMA
37:04
Uh huh Sophomore year of college is MDMA And raving I go full
37:07
raver Full raver Like
37:08
stovepipe pant Yeah Like I lose An absurd amount of weight Ah
37:13
Suddenly I am like
37:15
Just eminently fuckable And And like Like absurd Like weapons
37:22
grade gorgeous Yeah
37:23
And Like after being a fat kid Who was like literally told I
37:27
was gonna die alone
37:27
Right You know And this is probably Right in the middle of the
37:31
AIDS crisis Right
37:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah
37:33
yeah but yeah or after no no no I mean I came out at 15 so it's
37:37
1992 right when I
37:38
come out that's the height AIDS is in fact everywhere yeah and
37:43
uh you know of
37:44
course my mother thinks that I'm just going to get AIDS like
37:47
for the rest of my you
37:49
know until she died I think she was like so do you have AIDS
37:52
yet but you've been
37:54
SPEAKER_00: with the same guy for years by the time she died
37:56
uh oh yeah no yeah 12 years but that doesn't mean I haven't
37:59
been a slut okay that's
38:00
fine that's fine yeah uh so drugs work their way into your life
38:05
first as a as a as
38:07
SPEAKER_00: a respite
38:09
SPEAKER_00: And as they do,
38:10
SPEAKER_00: you can go a little too far No,
38:12
SPEAKER_01: I use them for,
38:13
SPEAKER_01: I blatantly use drugs to sort of straighten out my head Like blatantly,
38:17
I knew there was something so incredibly wrong with me And so I
38:21
had to kind of
38:22
self-parent in a very quick way And I was using drugs to kind
38:24
of like cut the line
38:27
SPEAKER_01: And yeah,
38:27
I mean there's no such thing as a free lunch And everything
38:30
works until it doesn't
38:32
SPEAKER_01: And so yeah,
38:35
SPEAKER_01: I did that
38:36
How do you feel about the medicinal use of psilocybin and
38:39
things like that?
38:40
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think there's like, obviously there's room for it to work.
38:43
SPEAKER_01: I don't know that.
38:47
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I really don't know enough.
38:52
SPEAKER_01: I don't know enough.
38:52
I know that I have a friend who took ayahuasca and healed her
38:55
body through a like
38:58
SPEAKER_01: lengthy years long ayahuasca therapy,
39:02
SPEAKER_01: reversed an autoimmune disease that is 100% fatal.
39:05
SPEAKER_00: Really?
39:06
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
39:06
SPEAKER_01: Holy shit.
39:08
SPEAKER_01: There's a documentary on Netflix where she's featured on an episode.
39:11
SPEAKER_01: Gabor Mate has interviewed her.
39:12
SPEAKER_01: A lot of people have like, you know, her name is Mioc.
39:16
SPEAKER_01: She is writing.
39:19
SPEAKER_01: And yeah, she's Googleable.
39:21
SPEAKER_00: You're public about this.
39:22
SPEAKER_00: You've been through rehab.
39:24
SPEAKER_00: You're sober now.
39:26
You couldn't do,
39:27
you wouldn't try medicinal psilocybin or things like that.
39:31
SPEAKER_00: Or you're not interested.
39:32
SPEAKER_01: I would if like, I don't think that I left a stone unturned.
39:35
SPEAKER_01: You've already done that.
39:36
SPEAKER_01: Do you know what I mean?
39:38
I remember the first time someone gave me DMT and they were
39:41
like,
39:41
hey man,
39:42
be careful.
39:44
SPEAKER_01: This is not like acid or mescaline or shrooms.
39:48
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, okay, all right.
39:50
SPEAKER_01: And then I'm taking it.
39:51
SPEAKER_01: Everyone is laid out and I'm just sort of walking around like, guys,
39:55
Like This Is Child's Play My Turf Like I Live Here Like Are You
40:00
Kidding Let's Have
40:00
Like This Is The I Know How To Negotiate This Energy The
40:05
Embryonic Mehran Came Out
40:07
And He Could Still Party He Was Fine I Was Fine Like Everything
40:11
Was Fine Oh That's
40:11
Funny You Know And Like Is Anyone Anyone Anyone Fucking No
40:16
One's Gonna Fuck All
40:16
SPEAKER_01: Right
40:19
straight straight guys with your DMT a little bit a little bit
40:23
but so yeah no I am
40:26
yeah I'm pretty I was I'm I don't think that I have much to go
40:33
back for right when
40:35
did you start comedy uh 17 years ago why did you start comedy I
40:40
was working at
40:41
SPEAKER_01: Harvard
40:42
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I want to ask about that.
40:43
SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
40:44
SPEAKER_01: I was assistant to Larry.
40:47
I was the project manager for the office of the provost,
40:49
did a bunch of stuff at Mass Hall.
40:52
SPEAKER_01: My boss at the time, her father got very sick and she couldn't like...
41:00
we no one can do that kind of like mass hall 70 hour week 80
41:04
hour week and have
41:06
what does that mean that's in the president's office is the is
41:09
is harvard's uh
41:11
executive wing yeah so the time was larry summers yeah he
41:15
recently exemplified
41:16
larry summer must have did he must have seen it he was yeah
41:22
he's not a healthy man
41:23
SPEAKER_01: um
41:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I walked Larry out when he resigned.
41:27
SPEAKER_01: Did you?
41:28
SPEAKER_01: What?
41:28
SPEAKER_01: I did.
41:29
SPEAKER_01: If you look at the Newsweek article, I'm in the background.
41:31
SPEAKER_00: Really?
41:32
SPEAKER_01: Four of us walked him out.
41:33
SPEAKER_00: What does that mean, walked him out?
41:35
SPEAKER_01: As in he went out to meet the press.
41:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
41:37
And four of us who were working that day in the office walked
41:41
him outside.
41:42
SPEAKER_00: In support of him.
41:43
SPEAKER_01: And just stood behind.
41:44
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I don't know if it was in support of him.
41:46
SPEAKER_00: That's just what you were doing.
41:48
SPEAKER_01: It was like watching Rome.
41:49
SPEAKER_01: I mean, like, you know, there's something sort of...
41:53
SPEAKER_01: Exciting about that moment.
41:54
I think we were all just there with popcorn because he and he
41:58
said some things
41:59
SPEAKER_00: about the scientific inclination of women and he got basically booted.
42:05
SPEAKER_01: Yes,
42:06
SPEAKER_01: and so my job in the provost's office at the time,
42:10
SPEAKER_01: I was helping set up a bunch of offices.
42:11
SPEAKER_01: The provost's office had started all of these other offices,
42:13
SPEAKER_01: and I was literally helping set them up down to their physical spaces,
42:17
SPEAKER_01: their desks,
42:17
SPEAKER_01: stuff like that,
42:18
SPEAKER_01: getting them appointed.
42:21
SPEAKER_01: And so they set up an office of faculty development and diversity.
42:26
and that office was very much to like there to help also dig
42:32
Larry out of this hole
42:34
where he made these comments about women in science which by
42:36
the way he made in an
42:38
SPEAKER_01: environment referencing a piece of research
42:42
SPEAKER_01: from the time.
42:43
SPEAKER_00: It wasn't like, I think that women can't compete in the sciences.
42:46
SPEAKER_01: It's like, there is this report.
42:48
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
42:49
SPEAKER_01: But it just came out the wrong way because to an extent,
42:53
SPEAKER_01: this person doesn't have to worry about how he pisses people off.
42:57
SPEAKER_01: And I think that can work against people.
43:01
SPEAKER_01: Not having the habit of being at all pleasing.
43:05
SPEAKER_00: I think maybe you and I should learn from that.
43:07
SPEAKER_01: Why?
43:07
SPEAKER_01: What do you mean?
43:08
SPEAKER_01: I think in general, I think I lead with charisma.
43:11
It's just that then when I find out that there's no there
43:14
there,
43:15
I set it on fire.
43:16
SPEAKER_00: Hilarious.
43:18
SPEAKER_01: So they were there to help get him out of it.
43:21
SPEAKER_01: This one woman I know who worked there,
43:25
SPEAKER_01: it's not about her name,
43:26
SPEAKER_01: but she wrote this lengthy sort of,
43:30
SPEAKER_01: this is your 27-page booklet out.
43:35
SPEAKER_01: of your gaff.
43:36
SPEAKER_01: Here is data.
43:37
SPEAKER_01: Here is statistics.
43:38
SPEAKER_01: Here's what we're doing.
43:40
SPEAKER_01: Here's where we're going.
43:41
SPEAKER_01: Here's how you get out of it.
43:42
SPEAKER_01: Right.
43:42
And it was handed to him and he threw it on the chair behind
43:45
him and he ran his
43:45
SPEAKER_01: mouth and he was ousted within a week.
43:48
SPEAKER_00: Oh man.
43:48
SPEAKER_01: It is, it is that kind of, I think.
43:52
So I guess there are lessons in that when you observe a moment
43:55
that is as clear as
43:56
SPEAKER_01: that,
43:58
SPEAKER_01: like that,
43:58
SPEAKER_01: that is actually marked by a physical gesture and then the,
44:04
SPEAKER_01: you know,
44:05
what follows although I from what I understand it was also just
44:08
a development issue
44:10
that like he was supposed to bring in a bunch of money and then
44:13
that didn't happen
44:14
which left him because I think when people bring in enough
44:16
money like nobody cares
44:18
SPEAKER_01: nobody gives a shit right yeah
44:21
But okay,
44:21
you were there when you started comedy,
44:23
which is how we got to Mass Hall.
44:25
SPEAKER_01: No, so then my boss, her dad gets sick.
44:28
SPEAKER_01: We go back to the Harvard School of Public Health where we started.
44:31
SPEAKER_01: I'm at the Harvard School of Public Health.
44:33
SPEAKER_01: A whole other thing happened where I was supposed to get this other job.
44:37
One day I'm going to spill the tea on this one and it's going
44:41
to be to burn her fucking name.
44:44
SPEAKER_01: But today is not the day I shoot that bullet.
44:48
SPEAKER_00: I've seen you burn people's names.
44:50
SPEAKER_01: Oh, I do.
44:51
SPEAKER_01: I'm telling you.
44:53
SPEAKER_01: But if I find out that they did something fucked up, that's it.
44:57
SPEAKER_01: But that person is stressed.
44:59
SPEAKER_01: They had a stressful life.
45:00
SPEAKER_01: I'm going to chalk it up to that.
45:01
SPEAKER_01: See, I am capable of some degree of cutting people some slack.
45:07
SPEAKER_01: So I went back to the School of Public Health.
45:09
SPEAKER_01: I was literally throwing cupcake parties.
45:11
SPEAKER_01: They didn't have a job for me,
45:13
but they made one for me because they felt bad about how I had
45:15
just gotten fucked.
45:16
SPEAKER_01: And
45:19
SPEAKER_01: Then George W. Bush cut public health funding, CDC and NIH funding.
45:23
SPEAKER_01: Our department saw $800,000 of budget cuts in one semester.
45:27
And I just walked into my boss's office and I was like,
45:29
I'm laid off,
45:30
aren't I?
45:31
SPEAKER_00: She was like, oh, yeah.
45:33
She was my best friend like she was the greatest person like
45:37
changed my life my
45:38
first true mentor in this life taught me so much about how to
45:42
sort of use my mind
45:44
and my hero I am eternally indebted to her but she was like you
45:48
are absolutely
45:49
SPEAKER_01: fired
45:52
SPEAKER_01: So I had like two months to get my shit together.
45:56
SPEAKER_01: I absolutely couldn't fathom going into another higher ed role.
46:00
SPEAKER_01: I googled stand-up comedy classes.
46:02
SPEAKER_01: I took the first class that came up.
46:04
SPEAKER_01: Where?
46:05
SPEAKER_01: At the Boston Center for Adult Education.
46:07
SPEAKER_00: Oh, hilarious.
46:09
And it was taught by someone who had never played a comedy club
46:11
in their life.
46:12
SPEAKER_01: Like an extension course.
46:12
SPEAKER_00: Of course.
46:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
46:13
SPEAKER_00: Of course.
46:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
46:14
SPEAKER_01: And it got me to write my first five minutes and that's all I needed.
46:17
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
46:18
SPEAKER_00: Where did you do your graduation show?
46:19
SPEAKER_01: Ooh.
46:20
at like this wacky room that belonged to the Boston Center for
46:24
Adult Education.
46:26
SPEAKER_00: But not at a club club.
46:27
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely not.
46:28
SPEAKER_01: No,
46:28
SPEAKER_01: there were these like,
46:29
SPEAKER_01: there were like Grecian fountains and like,
46:34
SPEAKER_01: it was like this sort of like marble museum pavilion sort of space.
46:38
SPEAKER_00: You know the part of Boston that's like Boca Raton, that kind of place?
46:42
SPEAKER_01: But it's Boston, so there's some authenticity in there, right?
46:45
SPEAKER_01: The marble's real But,
46:48
SPEAKER_01: yeah,
46:49
SPEAKER_01: it was a And from the first time I did it,
46:52
SPEAKER_01: it was like,
46:52
SPEAKER_01: oh,
46:53
SPEAKER_01: this is This is it This is my language Like,
46:56
SPEAKER_01: I can,
46:57
SPEAKER_00: let's do this What was the first bit you had that worked?
47:00
SPEAKER_00: It's a bit I still do What is it?
47:02
SPEAKER_00: Which part?
47:03
SPEAKER_01: The Iranian Homo Oh, right, yeah
47:07
Ronnie you know my I might have had a great entry point yeah
47:10
hey I'm something you
47:11
haven't seen before or you know like yeah eventually like I
47:15
mean you get a lot of
47:16
advice as you do the how long have you been doing this now
47:18
you're like a full-time
47:19
SPEAKER_01: 12 years 12 years yeah I thought it was 12
47:22
SPEAKER_01: So,
47:23
SPEAKER_01: uh,
47:23
SPEAKER_01: you know,
47:24
SPEAKER_01: you get a lot of advice,
47:24
SPEAKER_01: you look,
47:25
SPEAKER_01: you pick up a lot of tips and,
47:26
SPEAKER_01: uh,
47:27
SPEAKER_01: people give you like little,
47:28
SPEAKER_01: uh,
47:30
SPEAKER_01: you know,
47:31
SPEAKER_01: it's tips and tricks,
47:32
SPEAKER_01: but one of them is that every,
47:34
SPEAKER_01: every set is a first date.
47:36
SPEAKER_01: Correct.
47:36
SPEAKER_01: And so like, you kind of want to introduce yourself in some way.
47:41
SPEAKER_01: And that works in the beginning.
47:43
SPEAKER_01: I think it's a little literal.
47:45
Well,
47:45
I mean,
47:46
the problem is you get tired of doing the same stuff,
47:48
but every crowd is new.
47:50
You can't worry about what the other comics opinion of how many
47:54
times you've done that bit.
47:55
SPEAKER_00: You've got to put that out of your mind.
47:57
SPEAKER_01: Well, and professional comedians know that this is a repetition game.
48:01
Yeah,
48:02
and you've got to grab the crowd whatever way you've got to
48:04
grab them.
48:06
SPEAKER_00: What was the first club that saw your genius and embraced you?
48:10
SPEAKER_01: That is...
48:12
I mean Was I too flat Am I trying too hard I love you more than
48:17
Like I just I adore
48:18
you And that is the nicest thing That can be said I just think
48:21
that like When
48:23
genius is extended to artists Like with You know what I mean I
48:27
do I do I know I And
48:29
I In no way do I think That you were being earnest In calling
48:31
what I'm a genius But
48:33
SPEAKER_01: But It's just As soon as I hear that I'm like Ah Um
48:38
Cause it's genius Some people make vaccines Who appreciated you
48:43
for you And gave
48:45
you the shot to develop I guess Rick Jenkins in the comedy
48:48
studio In Cambridge
48:50
Which is always where I wanted to land It was a great place
48:53
that really It fostered
48:55
It nurtured new voices If you When you really proved yourself
49:01
there There was a
49:02
program called The Comic in Residence And you opened every show
49:05
for a month Yeah
49:07
and you went first every show for a month and when you came out
49:11
of that like you
49:12
were better you were better you just were because you got
49:16
bullet the shittiest spot
49:18
for a month and then the first time you do a set that isn't
49:21
that isn't bullet
49:22
you're like oh wait so easy like it's like walking around with
49:25
weights on your
49:26
wrists right and all of a sudden like you have jelly arms it's
49:28
the best right it
49:30
SPEAKER_01: was the best so yeah no Rick Jenkins uh and the comedy studio 100%
49:37
100% and like that was where I wanted to be and it's like
49:40
Boston has a ton of rooms
49:41
I mean Atlanta has a lot of rooms three or four really but also
49:45
other opportunities
49:46
SPEAKER_01: right
49:47
SPEAKER_00: Well, before COVID Yeah?
49:51
SPEAKER_00: Oh, no?
49:52
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
49:53
SPEAKER_00: Where are we time-wise?
49:53
SPEAKER_01: Am I boring the tits off of here?
49:55
SPEAKER_01: No, this is fantastic.
49:56
SPEAKER_01: I feel boring.
49:57
SPEAKER_00: I have no idea where we are.
49:58
SPEAKER_01: I'm holding in a piss.
50:00
SPEAKER_01: Are you?
50:01
SPEAKER_01: Do you want to go?
50:02
SPEAKER_01: Why would I do that?
50:03
SPEAKER_01: Okay, we'll do 10 more minutes and get out of here.
50:04
SPEAKER_01: I can do it.
50:06
Atlanta,
50:07
before COVID,
50:07
there were a lot of independent rooms that did not come back
50:10
after COVID.
50:11
SPEAKER_00: People have said that to me about New York as well.
50:14
SPEAKER_00: I don't know whether that's true or not.
50:16
I don't know didn't the New York Times just say something about
50:19
like well there's a
50:19
new they profiled a club Bushwick Comedy Club that just opened
50:23
great they said a
50:25
lot of clubs have come back I've heard different stories from
50:28
different club
50:28
operators I don't know New York Comedy Club is doing well they
50:32
just opened another
50:33
place in the Upper West Side at the expense of another room
50:36
though right like that
50:37
that wasn't another room that was not doing their their their
50:41
good work okay you
50:42
SPEAKER_01: know what I mean like wash your walls
50:45
SPEAKER_01: I mean for real wash your walls yeah get some mics that work like uh
50:50
so there and and like they made a beautiful green room there
50:54
they're doing great
50:54
and I think that like there you put love into a place then you
50:58
got those two rooms
51:00
they have two rooms plus like Connecticut three three in
51:02
Connecticut yeah yeah so
51:04
um they seem to be doing very well the stand seems to be doing
51:07
very well god damn
51:08
this seller god damn you the stand and let's unpack this so for
51:13
a while I'm like I
51:14
never want to do the stand because it feels like uh like a
51:17
conservative uh
51:20
SPEAKER_00: Because it's that the whatchamacallit vibe?
51:23
People who've been otherwise run out of comedy because they bet
51:27
on the wrong horse
51:29
SPEAKER_01: in entertainment.
51:30
SPEAKER_01: They decided they were like- The skankfest guys.
51:33
SPEAKER_01: Skankfesty,
51:35
SPEAKER_01: people who were against cancel culture,
51:36
SPEAKER_01: people who were like,
51:37
SPEAKER_01: yeah,
51:37
but I want to gleam the cube and get as close to saying the
51:40
n-word without saying
51:41
SPEAKER_01: the n-word.
51:42
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
51:43
SPEAKER_01: I want to do stereotype comedy.
51:44
SPEAKER_01: And there are some people who do stereotype comedy extremely well.
51:47
SPEAKER_01: Do you know what I mean?
51:49
SPEAKER_01: And I hate that they,
51:51
SPEAKER_01: as people who are very good at the craft of comedy,
51:55
have had to sort of get painted into a corner where now they're
52:01
just in this pen
52:02
SPEAKER_01: with a bunch of conservatives.
52:03
But,
52:04
you know,
52:04
we're recording after Donald Trump at Madison Square Garden.
52:09
SPEAKER_00: Tony Hinchcliffe's.
52:10
SPEAKER_01: And Tony Hinchcliffe's like gaff, and he ran that shit at the stand.
52:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
52:14
SPEAKER_01: And there is a tendency,
52:16
there is a thing that is happening now where comedy clubs are
52:19
skewing even more
52:21
conservative than is sort of like inherent to the defiant
52:25
nature of comedy.
52:26
SPEAKER_00: But don't all voices have an opportunity to create comedy?
52:29
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
52:30
SPEAKER_01: Here's the thing.
52:31
SPEAKER_00: Here's the thing.
52:32
yes all voices right but that um I I do appreciate that all
52:41
voices but say what you
52:42
want to say I'm I want to hear no well I I'm trying to get the
52:45
lay of the land in
52:45
New York comedy scene so I don't I haven't spent any time at
52:48
the stand yeah um you
52:50
you might they might adore you and honestly like if for me I
52:54
don't I again I have
52:56
SPEAKER_01: very little self-regulation like capacity I uh
53:02
I'm built how I'm built Yeah And I don't even want to be around
53:05
I don't want to be
53:06
SPEAKER_01: in a room that like Uh
53:09
SPEAKER_01: has an agenda like that.
53:11
SPEAKER_01: It'd be one thing if the room had no agenda, right?
53:14
If the room has no agenda and so like people are saying
53:18
conservative things,
53:19
SPEAKER_01: people are saying liberal things,
53:20
SPEAKER_01: we'll see who comes out on top.
53:22
SPEAKER_01: But that is not what this is.
53:24
That what you actually have are rooms that are actually
53:26
conservative that will have
53:28
SPEAKER_01: liberal people to make people feel safe,
53:30
but really what's happening is that culturally a lot of
53:33
conservative ideas are-
53:34
SPEAKER_00: It's becoming their,
53:36
SPEAKER_00: some rooms have a brand is what you're saying.
53:39
SPEAKER_01: It's it's more than a brand.
53:40
SPEAKER_01: It's an agenda.
53:41
SPEAKER_01: I'll call it an agenda.
53:41
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
53:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah Well,
53:44
I think there's sort of you know Shane Gillis is the poster boy
53:47
for the cancelled
53:48
person who's come back and found a career Right and he is just
53:52
about the loveliest
53:53
SPEAKER_00: human like he's hilarious,
53:55
SPEAKER_00: but you can tell soul is correct Well,
53:57
you can feel that in his comedy whereas if you take Tony's
54:01
jokes from yesterday and
54:04
he said what joke if you take his comments yesterday it does
54:07
there's no love you
54:08
don't feel any love you don't feel any well there's nothing
54:11
behind it other than
54:12
just sort of good for you I think your finger on it even though
54:16
if you watch the
54:16
Tom if you compare that to the Tom Brady roast the jokes are
54:19
horrendous but
54:22
they're in the right environment and they're told with some
54:25
degree of affection I
54:26
saw the funniest thing on it I don't watch Kill Tony but there
54:30
was one clip where
54:31
someone goes on and like after a set he was talking about how
54:33
he had been molested
54:35
he was like I've been molested by like you know four different
54:37
people and then this
54:38
SPEAKER_01: guy dressed as Dr.
54:39
Phil was like yeah but which one was your favorite that was
54:40
Adam Ray it's the
54:41
greatest thing I've ever heard it is when I tell you it is the
54:46
funniest fucking
54:47
SPEAKER_01: thing I have ever heard these arms aren't ever coming down
54:50
SPEAKER_01: Like I am that kind of pumped about it.
54:53
SPEAKER_01: I think it's the funniest thing in the universe.
54:56
SPEAKER_01: But like, so of course, but again, like there has to be payoff, right?
55:01
SPEAKER_01: Like the payoff has to be proportionate to the transgression.
55:04
SPEAKER_01: In fact, it has to be greater than the transgression.
55:07
SPEAKER_00: Sorry, finish your thought.
55:08
SPEAKER_01: No, no, no, there's that.
55:09
SPEAKER_01: And then two is that like, it's exactly what you said about like,
55:13
I what I want isn't it like I want to trust that the person who
55:17
is speaking that
55:18
their soul isn't dog shit yeah and if your soul isn't dog shit
55:21
you can lead me
55:22
anywhere you can you can walk me down and you can dog walk me
55:25
yeah like through
55:26
whatever dark twisted corridor your brain has had to sort of
55:30
make home out of right
55:33
SPEAKER_01: but if if you're actually like
55:36
Kind of like this festering hate monster Yeah And you walk me
55:39
through that same
55:40
room It's like too soon hooker You're not ready Right You
55:43
haven't earned the trust
55:44
yet You haven't earned Well because you're not trustworthy Like
55:47
what you're doing
55:47
is fundamentally not trustworthy And that is what I think is
55:50
happening There's a
55:51
SPEAKER_00: Jezelnik A Jezelnik clip
55:53
talking about Andy Warhol saying that art is getting away with
55:56
it and the people
55:57
that don't get away with it feel like they've been wronged and
56:00
yet he's like no
56:01
because it's not art and I think it at least in that space uh
56:06
Tony's was it wasn't
56:08
artful it wasn't it wasn't presented cleverly it was up it was
56:14
listen I'll call it
56:15
what it is go ahead pandering yeah right and that is that's
56:20
what you do when you
56:22
SPEAKER_01: just want to be liked
56:24
SPEAKER_01: and do okay in a room that you're not prepared for.
56:27
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
56:28
SPEAKER_00: Right?
56:28
SPEAKER_00: Or maybe it's just the wrong room for any comedy at all.
56:31
SPEAKER_01: Or you're just pandering because you're underprepared.
56:35
I'm sorry,
56:36
but Rojo Perez,
56:37
who is a lovely comedian,
56:39
a good comedian,
56:40
a truly good comedian,
56:43
He he posted he was like this isn't the price is right they
56:45
didn't just call you
56:46
out of the audience Hooker you had to put these jokes in have
56:50
to vet it you have
56:52
access to a network of writers huge network like and you're
56:57
about to play 20,000
56:58
SPEAKER_01: people at the would like the second RNC and and
57:02
You know that you know is going to have that is like the swan
57:05
song of Trump's like,
57:06
SPEAKER_01: you know electoral cycle Like what are we doing?
57:09
You know,
57:09
this is gonna get a ton of press this this writing should have
57:12
fucking heels on right?
57:14
Like this writing should have a fur coat and fucking heels on
57:18
and it showed up
57:19
SPEAKER_01: there in sweatpants and
57:22
Flip flops and socks Chilly stains on them Hey guys It's like
57:26
no babe No You didn't
57:28
do the work That's a good way to put it Alright Can you hold
57:32
your pee for long
57:33
enough I'm always not pissing Speaking of urology Speaking of
57:36
urology Fuck me You
57:38
were doing everything Yeah Okay okay great So You recently on
57:43
Facebook Were posting
57:45
SPEAKER_00: about Getting your sperm tested Mmhmm
57:48
SPEAKER_00: Yes Why does a middle-aged gay man get his sperm tested?
57:50
I might make a baby You might I might just make a baby You
57:53
could make one today If
57:54
I can't Because I got the results Oh I'm sorry Yeah I'm working
58:00
on it We're going
58:00
to see what we can do I have a follow up And again he posted
58:03
about this Oh I'm not
58:04
SPEAKER_01: like Listen I am also from the school of
58:09
SPEAKER_01: I really don't hold things as private.
58:11
SPEAKER_01: I don't think that there's value in it for me or for others.
58:14
SPEAKER_01: I think that when you actually survive a curious life,
58:20
SPEAKER_01: I don't think everybody has to do this,
58:24
SPEAKER_01: but for myself,
58:25
I do think of the responsibility of being candid enough about
58:30
hardship so that
58:32
SPEAKER_01: people aren't under the impression that this is some...
58:35
SPEAKER_01: Cakewalk, right?
58:36
SPEAKER_01: Life is not a cakewalk.
58:38
SPEAKER_01: There are massive disappointments.
58:40
There are things that you overcome and you can still turn out
58:43
reasonably happy.
58:45
SPEAKER_01: Right?
58:45
Like as in,
58:47
but the idea of like avoiding it because it's,
58:50
too much is avoided in this world.
58:52
SPEAKER_01: Too much is avoided that shouldn't be avoided,
58:55
SPEAKER_01: you know,
58:56
and too much is fixated on that is a massive waste of our sort
59:01
of psychic energy.
59:04
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, my cum sucks.
59:06
SPEAKER_01: I have terrible, I have the, I absolutely, it is the most worthless jazz.
59:10
And recently it's changed in color and texture in the most
59:16
disappointing way.
59:17
When I orgasm,
59:19
it is,
59:20
I am so crestfallen every time I look at the meager puddle.
59:25
The meager,
59:26
the unfortunate,
59:27
the orphan puddle of just this lifeless ejaculate
59:41
So you note there was something So there was something going on
59:44
physically You had
59:45
symptoms that you wanted to get checked out So really we're
59:50
unpacking all of it So
59:52
I get sober Well you already unpacked a lot of it Not enough of
59:56
it Alright well
59:56
let's get it out Not literally Before your very eyes I will
1:00:02
make a huge comeback I
1:00:03
told you we're going in a new direction under the new brand
1:00:06
This is very sweet by
1:00:08
SPEAKER_00: the way Thank you
1:00:09
um so it's been it's very sweet uh i i get sober i'm getting
1:00:17
healthy for the first
1:00:18
time three years sober now we're coming on it yeah good coming
1:00:21
on it and um and i
1:00:25
i'm like i'm working out with a trainer busting my ass and i'm
1:00:30
finding that like i
1:00:31
am beat all the time so i have my testosterone levels checked
1:00:35
and they are like sub
1:00:36
SPEAKER_01: female
1:00:39
You might as well transition They're dismal Except I'm such an
1:00:43
ugly woman I have
1:00:45
absolutely no bones around gender in general I think the whole
1:00:49
thing is laughable I
1:00:50
think you should kind of just go with what you're prettiest in
1:00:52
But like in life
1:00:54
SPEAKER_01: Just look good,
1:00:55
SPEAKER_01: bitch So that's just me in general
1:00:59
SPEAKER_01: So if I thought I could be a convincing woman,
1:01:00
SPEAKER_01: I would absolutely,
1:01:01
SPEAKER_01: if I could be one of those people who swam in between,
1:01:03
SPEAKER_01: in a heartbeat,
1:01:04
SPEAKER_01: I would swim in between all waters,
1:01:06
SPEAKER_01: but I am an ugly chick.
1:01:11
SPEAKER_01: So I went on testosterone and literally like not a steroid,
1:01:17
SPEAKER_01: like a big amount,
1:01:18
SPEAKER_01: like it brought me to the middle.
1:01:20
SPEAKER_01: I went on enough to bring me to like the lower middle of the pack.
1:01:24
SPEAKER_00: Right.
1:01:26
then I went off of it to have my sperm tested so I'm right now
1:01:31
in male menopause
1:01:33
losing my fucking mind really oh yeah like the endocrine system
1:01:38
is the wackiest
1:01:40
SPEAKER_01: craziest scariest thing that
1:01:42
I mean like that that really sort of drives the humors that
1:01:46
moves our planets it is
1:01:48
crazy like you know hunger metabolism sex drive like energy
1:01:56
sleep hormone hormone
1:01:58
SPEAKER_01: hormone hormone like all huge things that really
1:02:02
SPEAKER_01: Kind of shape us.
1:02:04
So anyhow,
1:02:08
I'm off the testosterone right now,
1:02:10
male menopause,
1:02:11
trying to get my right.
1:02:12
SPEAKER_01: It's terrible.
1:02:14
SPEAKER_01: It's not working out so far.
1:02:15
SPEAKER_01: It's going to take more medical intervention.
1:02:17
I'm happy to do it if it means that I can experience the kind
1:02:20
of egomaniacal vanity
1:02:22
SPEAKER_01: that only comes from seeing what happens when you ruin a woman's life.
1:02:27
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:02:28
Filling her with yourself and making her create another you
1:02:33
well and just what you
1:02:35
want to just retain that power even the optionality of doing it
1:02:38
I'm gonna freeze
1:02:39
some in case like I don't know for posterity for poster exactly
1:02:45
and like and if I
1:02:46
don't pick it up before I die yeah do you know what I hope a
1:02:48
couple of mean dykes I
1:02:52
SPEAKER_01: have just a
1:02:53
Listen if Melissa Etheridge Picks David Crosby There's somebody
1:02:56
Out there for you
1:02:57
Jesus Christ If like David Crosby The most insane Narcissist
1:03:05
You can't even think
1:03:06
of For sure Great harmonist Absolutely Absolutely Like the
1:03:11
Talent there But like a
1:03:14
Clearly aesthetic was not the driving force No,
1:03:16
no,
1:03:17
no Do you know what I mean?
1:03:18
And I For me Absolutely This kid It's like I want to know how
1:03:21
big your dad's dick
1:03:22
was I'm for the egg donor Like I need to know I need to see
1:03:24
your dad's penis I need
1:03:25
SPEAKER_01: to see his hairline How fat did your mom get when she turned 40?
1:03:29
It's I have become the worst of all men I have absolutely
1:03:32
become the worst of all
1:03:33
men When it comes to women and reproduction There is no worse
1:03:36
male than me
1:03:37
SPEAKER_00: That's so funny.
1:03:38
SPEAKER_00: Alright, is there anything I didn't ask you?
1:03:40
SPEAKER_00: I am so sorry.
1:03:41
SPEAKER_00: This is fantastic.
1:03:42
SPEAKER_01: I feel like I have been miserable.
1:03:45
SPEAKER_01: Right?
1:03:46
SPEAKER_01: No?
1:03:46
SPEAKER_00: No, you were wonderful.
1:03:47
SPEAKER_00: This is the most spontaneous conversation that I've had.
1:03:50
SPEAKER_01: I came in here utterly unprepared.
1:03:53
You're the best Because we're just sitting here talking I'm
1:03:55
sorry I was so mad
1:03:56
about Trump I'm going to do something I'm going to say that
1:03:58
this is going to be a
1:03:58
warning This is going to be a conversation with one of my
1:04:01
favorite people in New
1:04:02
York City It is going to address politics Some of you won't
1:04:05
like it There's going
1:04:06
to be some very graphic language and topics addressed Don't let
1:04:11
your kids watch
1:04:11
this unless they're cool Mehran Oh that's interesting Well I
1:04:15
just want to make sure
1:04:16
people know what they're in for That's real That is real No I
1:04:21
think that's real and
1:04:22
SPEAKER_01: good
1:04:24
SPEAKER_01: Can I ask a quick question?
1:04:25
Absolutely This is the last thing I'm going to ask before I go
1:04:28
away Yeah Because I
1:04:28
think you might know powerful people Shouldn't YouTube have an
1:04:33
opt-in to like be
1:04:36
SPEAKER_01: offered adult content?
1:04:38
I don't mean like I mean like people so that you can say things
1:04:41
like sexual assault
1:04:42
so that you can say things like genocide so that you can say
1:04:44
things like Holocaust
1:04:45
so you can say things like rape because all these words have
1:04:47
been taken out suicide
1:04:49
SPEAKER_01: you can't say murder you can't say kill you can't say
1:04:51
Right Well Yeah I think there should be The problem is these
1:04:56
platforms are so
1:04:57
gigantic They cannot please everybody all the time I was
1:05:01
flagged a few months ago
1:05:02
on Facebook For some kind of Spamware they said I was trying to
1:05:08
And it might have
1:05:09
had to do with a plugin on my Google Chrome And I was like I
1:05:13
didn't do anything I
1:05:14
SPEAKER_00: used to work at Facebook Yeah yeah yeah You did?
1:05:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah for four and a half years I was an early employee at Facebook
1:05:21
we're gonna unpack this but I have to piss go really yeah
1:05:26
welcome back from the
1:05:27
restroom oh my god it was the best good except I got lost um I
1:05:31
have the world's
1:05:32
worst sense of direction I get lost I have lived next to
1:05:36
Central Park for 10 years
1:05:38
and I still get lost inside I get lost all the time you and my
1:05:41
wife all the time uh
1:05:43
SPEAKER_00: where's your new place
1:05:45
uh the Central Park West and uh between Central Park West and
1:05:50
Columbus on in the
1:05:51
90s okay same block several a few streets down you were gonna
1:05:55
you want to unpack
1:05:56
something what we're gonna unpack no no it was just the
1:05:58
question about like why I I
1:06:01
SPEAKER_01: find yeah it is my opinion that uh
1:06:07
SPEAKER_01: that some degree of censorship that happens online right now.
1:06:11
It is actually like people people act like it's like it's woke
1:06:17
washing and that
1:06:18
SPEAKER_01: it's like a leftist impulse.
1:06:20
But actually,
1:06:21
I think it's fairly it serves conservatism and it serves family
1:06:24
values.
1:06:25
SPEAKER_00: Everybody thinks that these platforms are against whatever politics.
1:06:30
The conservatives think it and the progressives think that
1:06:33
Facebook is the source
1:06:35
SPEAKER_00: of evil in the world.
1:06:36
SPEAKER_01: Well, Facebook is to some extent an agent of evil in this world.
1:06:43
SPEAKER_00: Look,
1:06:43
SPEAKER_00: it depends who you ask To some people Look,
1:06:46
Facebook and Twitter and all enabled the Arab Spring And it
1:06:50
also apparently,
1:06:51
you know Distributed Russian disinformation during the 2016 or
1:06:55
2020 campaign It
1:06:56
sure did And right now they throttle political discourse
1:06:59
altogether Except for
1:07:01
SPEAKER_00: conservative stuff No,
1:07:02
SPEAKER_00: that's reaction to exactly this problem Is that they said Look,
1:07:06
we don't want to be We want to be a neutral voice And they shut
1:07:10
down Notice when
1:07:11
SPEAKER_00: you post something
1:07:12
political on Facebook it gets like Zippo of course in terms of
1:07:17
if I post to Wall
1:07:17
Street Journal people's political conservative political stuff
1:07:20
all the time it I'm
1:07:22
telling you I I believe and I don't know but I believe that
1:07:25
they just basically
1:07:26
SPEAKER_00: Zuckerberg
1:07:27
Zuck just said fuck it I don't want to deal with this shit
1:07:29
we're gonna shut it down
1:07:30
SPEAKER_00: it's like back when you know I don't know a few years ago all the the the
1:07:35
publishers were saying you guys got to pay us for you know
1:07:38
using our content on
1:07:39
SPEAKER_00: your platform and then Zuck just said you know what we'll just stop
1:07:42
You know Musk obviously has a very specific political agenda
1:07:44
but I don't I think
1:07:45
these platforms are so fucking huge that they're like trying to
1:07:49
get out of the way
1:07:50
SPEAKER_00: I mean in a world where you have
1:08:06
I think that's incredibly kind I think that's a generous I like
1:08:10
that you're calling
1:08:10
SPEAKER_00: me kind and not naive Huh?
1:08:12
I like that you're calling me kind and not naive I don't think
1:08:14
it's naive In fact,
1:08:16
SPEAKER_01: I would say it's far from naive Right?
1:08:18
SPEAKER_01: I think You know, what you're saying is It is designed to assuage Right?
1:08:27
but so it's not naive it is a it's an act of will to be sort of
1:08:32
like it's grace
1:08:34
you're extending grace to these people who I do not think are
1:08:38
necessarily uh worthy
1:08:41
agents there's and there's a million people who agree with you
1:08:43
on that more than
1:08:44
SPEAKER_00: million people um um yeah
1:08:49
SPEAKER_00: But back to your point,
1:08:50
SPEAKER_00: I do think Yeah,
1:08:51
SPEAKER_00: I'd opt in to be like Yeah,
1:08:53
SPEAKER_01: bring the crazy shit to me Not the crazy shit Well,
1:08:57
SPEAKER_00: not like the flat earthers But like,
1:09:00
SPEAKER_00: I mean,
1:09:00
yeah I want to mix it up around politics I want to mix it up
1:09:03
with other people Who
1:09:04
SPEAKER_00: are willing to engage in thoughtful Dialogue around
1:09:09
But there's no reading out thoughtful dialogue Although one
1:09:11
would think that AI
1:09:12
SPEAKER_01: should be able to basically You know what I mean?
1:09:14
SPEAKER_01: At this point, can AI discern when someone is just like Being an asshole?
1:09:17
SPEAKER_01: Being an asshole Isn't there?
1:09:20
Surely One person's asshole is another person's hero That's the
1:09:25
problem And then if
1:09:26
SPEAKER_00: you do that,
1:09:27
SPEAKER_00: then it's just amplifying the whole Or just misinformation?
1:09:31
SPEAKER_00: It's just Well Can misinformation get weeded out?
1:09:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah
1:09:36
SPEAKER_00: That would be a good place to start, probably.
1:09:37
SPEAKER_00: Not a terrible place.
1:09:38
SPEAKER_00: But how do you define misinformation?
1:09:39
SPEAKER_01: Like, they're eating the dogs.
1:09:42
SPEAKER_01: They're eating the cats.
1:09:43
Okay,
1:09:43
during COVID,
1:09:44
things that were designed as misinformation turn out to be
1:09:47
true.
1:09:48
SPEAKER_01: During COVID, things that were... To some extent, absolutely.
1:09:53
SPEAKER_00: Right?
1:09:54
SPEAKER_00: So who decides what's misinformation?
1:09:56
SPEAKER_00: Yes, that means that you open the door to enormous amounts of crazy shit.
1:10:00
SPEAKER_01: I was bleaching everything during COVID.
1:10:01
and you know I only wear black so like the number of like
1:10:05
orange dotted shirts I
1:10:07
had to throw away by the end of 2020 could suck a d I was
1:10:11
furious furious at how
1:10:13
much bleach I got on myself what would you do if you were if
1:10:16
you were if you were
1:10:17
if you had to moderate or decide the rules for programming this
1:10:22
giant medium yeah
1:10:25
SPEAKER_00: for humanity
1:10:27
SPEAKER_00: And you had to be somewhat objective, how would you change things?
1:10:30
SPEAKER_01: Well, to one extent, it's like, let's look at Reddit, right?
1:10:36
Where I'm only being shown subreddits and categories that I
1:10:42
have already expressed interest in.
1:10:44
They are not showing me what some mouth breather is saying on r
1:10:48
slash Trump.
1:10:49
SPEAKER_00: But doesn't that just fuel the echo chamber?
1:10:53
SPEAKER_01: I'm fine with having my echo chamber.
1:10:54
SPEAKER_01: Listen, make no mistake.
1:10:56
And if I want to step outside of my echo chamber,
1:10:59
I know just where to look.
1:11:00
SPEAKER_01: I know just where to look without having...
1:11:03
SPEAKER_01: the most egregious,
1:11:04
most sort of designed to trigger me posts put in front of me
1:11:08
for the purpose of
1:11:10
SPEAKER_01: creating sort of like rage engagement and that ultimately is divisive,
1:11:15
SPEAKER_01: right?
1:11:15
SPEAKER_01: It creates a greater rift.
1:11:17
SPEAKER_01: And in this rift,
1:11:19
SPEAKER_01: in these sort of like cultural wars that are happening,
1:11:24
SPEAKER_01: like meanwhile,
1:11:25
SPEAKER_01: economically,
1:11:25
SPEAKER_01: like all kinds of crimes are being committed,
1:11:27
SPEAKER_01: right?
1:11:28
SPEAKER_01: And not just economically, but politically, sociopolitically.
1:11:33
Like in terms of war crimes etc etc like all of this like
1:11:36
madness is happening and
1:11:37
we're just sort of yelling at each other about like you know
1:11:40
that Puerto Rican
1:11:41
little stuff out of line right right meanwhile we're being
1:11:44
screwed at a cosmic
1:11:46
level at a cosmic level right right yeah and that is uh that is
1:11:50
by design that is
1:11:52
SPEAKER_01: by design
1:11:53
Distract them over here with the little thing that they care
1:11:56
about as opposed to
1:11:57
SPEAKER_00: the shit that really matters.
1:11:59
SPEAKER_01: That is the design, right?
1:12:00
Like when Bernie Sanders was running on a You Can't Even Talk
1:12:04
To Me about,
1:12:05
SPEAKER_01: he's like,
1:12:06
SPEAKER_01: there can be no sort of identity politics.
1:12:10
SPEAKER_01: He was like, don't even bring up identity politics.
1:12:14
Everybody just focus on the 1% If we just deal with the 1%
1:12:18
Afterwards I promise you
1:12:19
We'll deal with all the identity politics It's not the 1% It's
1:12:21
the .1% It's the
1:12:21
SPEAKER_00: .01% It's like 150 people I've met a few of them I know
1:12:30
I know you're you've met the 150 I've met a few of them of
1:12:34
course no no no no of
1:12:36
course you it's I don't doubt that and your exposure to them
1:12:39
and I know that you
1:12:40
know that they are you know who they are with their influence
1:12:45
yeah yeah it's more
1:12:49
SPEAKER_01: like it is it is more the trick of of distraction I think it's
1:12:58
I think so I uh this I dig talking to you man I'm so happy to
1:13:02
be in the same room
1:13:03
um what is you said you're starting a podcast when is that
1:13:06
happening uh I'm Mike
1:13:08
Albanese your your guy is coming he's gone right now I know
1:13:11
he's out of town he
1:13:12
comes back very soon yep he's coming to my house and he's
1:13:14
setting that up and so
1:13:16
when are you what's going to be called what are you going to
1:13:17
start what are you
1:13:18
going to talk about so that I mean I don't know that I would
1:13:20
necessarily like share
1:13:21
SPEAKER_01: it before so if you want to use it not right now that's fine
1:13:25
Soon We'll Talk About It Soon Yeah But There's A There's A
1:13:28
Degree Of Like Like
1:13:29
Maybe The Cultural Arsonist Like As In There Is An Impulse In
1:13:34
Me Where I Want To
1:13:37
Like Just Talk About Like The What Because Here's The Thing In
1:13:44
Entertainment And
1:13:45
All Of These Sort Of Avenues That Disseminate Culture That That
1:13:48
Sort Of Shape
1:13:49
SPEAKER_01: Culture Yeah We Live In Uh
1:13:52
There is a desire to advance and to be seen and to have your
1:13:57
signal amplified,
1:13:59
boosted.
1:14:00
SPEAKER_00: What the fuck are we doing here?
1:14:01
SPEAKER_00: That's exactly what this is about.
1:14:04
But this is,
1:14:05
you are controlling the thing that you're putting out into the
1:14:08
universe.
1:14:09
When you depend on a bigger machine with bigger budgets to then
1:14:14
reach a wider
1:14:15
SPEAKER_01: audience,
1:14:17
SPEAKER_01: there are a lot of people,
1:14:17
SPEAKER_01: and also not everyone is a self-starter.
1:14:20
SPEAKER_01: Right?
1:14:20
SPEAKER_01: Like not everyone is out there creating their own content.
1:14:22
SPEAKER_01: Some people just want to go in there and like,
1:14:24
SPEAKER_01: you know,
1:14:26
SPEAKER_01: go from like walk on role to speaking role.
1:14:29
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
1:14:30
SPEAKER_01: You know,
1:14:32
SPEAKER_01: and so but in the pursuit of it,
1:14:35
you end up not talking about a lot of the stuff that's truly
1:14:38
sick within the job.
1:14:40
SPEAKER_00: Mm hmm.
1:14:41
and that sickness within the job like you talked about there's
1:14:46
no avoiding it like
1:14:48
I did get the guy who booked the Montreal Comedy Festival I had
1:14:51
him I I ousted him
1:14:53
mm-hmm to a certain extent by with one Facebook post that I
1:14:57
made while I was on
1:14:58
SPEAKER_01: mushrooms
1:15:01
SPEAKER_00: Well, the festival is no more.
1:15:02
SPEAKER_00: So you only beat him.
1:15:03
SPEAKER_00: By a year.
1:15:05
SPEAKER_00: By like a year.
1:15:05
SPEAKER_00: You only deprived him of like a year.
1:15:06
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I only took him out for a year.
1:15:07
But the reality is that like this is this person who like was
1:15:14
sort of brain sick from a like
1:15:17
SPEAKER_01: a social standpoint from like his beliefs about women.
1:15:24
If it's not fat and black or I don't want to fuck it,
1:15:26
I'm not putting it on stage.
1:15:28
SPEAKER_01: What he said about female comics.
1:15:29
SPEAKER_01: And this guy shaped comedy for 20 years.
1:15:34
And the Montreal Comedy Festival for the longest time was the
1:15:38
principal channel to
1:15:39
SPEAKER_01: late night spots.
1:15:41
SPEAKER_01: So you're talking about
1:15:44
a like this is the person that's the gatekeeper for that this
1:15:48
is how comedy reaches
1:15:49
the American public right on mass and like that's your
1:15:56
gatekeeper yep so what
1:15:57
you're seeing is through that filter and it's not like the
1:16:00
Montreal Comedy Festival
1:16:01
didn't know exactly who he was that would be ridiculous to work
1:16:04
with someone for 20
1:16:06
SPEAKER_01: years and not know just how weird they are
1:16:10
SPEAKER_00: So the next time we talk,
1:16:11
SPEAKER_00: or I hope you'll answer this question on your podcast,
1:16:13
SPEAKER_00: is it better to have him or the algorithm making these decisions for us?
1:16:17
SPEAKER_01: How about a decent human being?
1:16:19
SPEAKER_01: Isn't that terrifying?
1:16:20
SPEAKER_01: The algorithm.
1:16:21
SPEAKER_00: Why would you ever do that?
1:16:23
SPEAKER_00: I'm sorry.
1:16:23
SPEAKER_01: Why would you ever leave it to the algorithm?
1:16:26
SPEAKER_01: The algorithm is fundamentally untrustworthy.
1:16:28
SPEAKER_00: Of course it is.
1:16:29
And it's also flawed because it's programmed by human beings
1:16:31
who have agendas of their own.
1:16:33
SPEAKER_01: Do you know Nate McIntosh?
1:16:35
I haven't met him yet Down with tech Amazing special on YouTube
1:16:38
Yep But he talks
1:16:39
about That social media Has been designed By the least social
1:16:42
Among us It's
1:16:43
absolutely true And it's the funniest Fucking idea Ladies and
1:16:46
gentlemen This has
1:16:46
been Mehran Khagani How do you say it again Mehran But like in
1:16:51
general Dot com
1:16:53
Alright It was such a pleasure Thanks buddy I'm so sorry I feel
1:16:55
like I wasted No
1:16:56
SPEAKER_00: you were wonderful Alright Thanks pal Bye