Latest / LAUNCH: Parenting Tips for Raising Adult Children & Building Better Relationships / #90: When Should Parents of Adult Children Stop Being Supportive?

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#90: When Should Parents of Adult Children Stop Being Supportive? · LAUNCH: Parenting Tips for Raising Adult Children & Building Better Relationships

0:00
SPEAKER_01: I'm Sherry Jonas, and this is Launch, the podcast for parents with older kids in their 20s and 30s who are struggling.
0:08
SPEAKER_01: Here's the thing: every parent I speak to believes that they are being supportive, paying their bills, managing setbacks, handling stressful situations, sending job postings, giving their young adults space, avoiding uncomfortable conversations, letting them do whatever they want, even when it's unhealthy.
0:30
SPEAKER_01: Yes, watching endless hours of YouTube, gaming all night, sleeping all day, eating poorly, and never leaving the house, you're supporting it if you're not doing anything about it.
0:42
SPEAKER_01: Which makes you wonder, when does support become enabling?
0:46
SPEAKER_01: And when does enabling turn into disabling?
0:50
SPEAKER_01: Where did your confidence go?
0:52
SPEAKER_01: Why are you struggling to parent them the way they need to be?
0:56
SPEAKER_01: Well, by the end of this episode, you'll have a better understanding of what real support looks like, one that moves your adult child toward feeling capable, confident, and independent instead of allowing them to stay exactly where they are.
1:12
SPEAKER_01: Joining me today is Amanda Hill, a licensed mental health counselor, a college professor, and the founder and clinical director of Connections of Hope, a therapy practice with multiple locations across central Indiana, where she leads a team of more than 12 licensed therapists.
1:30
SPEAKER_01: She holds a master's in counseling psychology and brings nearly 20 years of experience as a practicing psychotherapist.
1:38
SPEAKER_01: In 2025, Amanda was named one of Time Iconic's top 10 powerful women championing hope and impact.
1:48
SPEAKER_01: Suffice to say, Amanda is an expert in her field, and I'm excited to have her here on launch.
1:54
SPEAKER_01: So let's get started.
1:56
SPEAKER_01: Hi, Amanda.
1:56
SPEAKER_01: Welcome to launch.
1:58
SPEAKER_01: Yes, thank you so much for having me.
2:00
SPEAKER_01: It's a pleasure to have you here today.
2:02
SPEAKER_01: I'm actually really, really looking forward to this conversation.
2:05
SPEAKER_00: Me too.
2:06
SPEAKER_01: We're going to be talking about a subject that needs some clarity and, in my opinion, a new approach.
2:12
SPEAKER_01: That topic is support and the misconception of what parents think support is.
2:19
SPEAKER_01: And in fact, I'm going to go so far as to say, in my personal opinion, I think it's a word that parents need to drop from their vocabulary altogether and replace it with one that is more aligned with a growth mindset that will help their adult children actually move forward.
2:38
SPEAKER_01: Before we get into that, I need you to tell the listener a little bit about yourself.
2:44
SPEAKER_01: Besides, and I will do this for you, besides the fact, because I find this amazing, besides the fact that you're a successful licensed mental health therapist with over 20 years of clinical experience, running several different practices.
2:58
SPEAKER_01: You're a published author.
3:00
SPEAKER_01: You're the host of a podcast that explores mental health practices topics.
3:05
SPEAKER_01: You're a mom of two, and you have faced some challenges of your own raising them as a single mom.
3:12
SPEAKER_01: Amen to you, sister.
3:15
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
3:16
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
3:17
SPEAKER_00: So um you covered it pretty well.
3:19
SPEAKER_00: I don't know how I can add more to that, but yes, been doing therapy for 20 plus years now.
3:26
SPEAKER_00: Um opened my practice about six years ago, so in 2020.
3:32
SPEAKER_00: And it was just me to start.
3:34
SPEAKER_00: And within the first year, I filled up pretty quickly and decided to expand.
3:39
SPEAKER_00: And now I have several different locations, as you've said, and I love what I do.
3:44
SPEAKER_00: So I still work with clients, but I manage my time kind of split it between seeing clients and then managing the business at this point.
3:51
SPEAKER_00: My kids are 16 and 18.
3:54
SPEAKER_00: And I did just move my 18-year-old nine hours away from me.
3:58
SPEAKER_00: So that was a challenge, but I still got my 16-year-old son at home.
4:04
SPEAKER_00: And he has one more year of school before he's out of the house, too.
4:07
SPEAKER_00: So I'm nearing empty nest.
4:09
SPEAKER_01: You know, a few weeks ago when we were getting acquainted, you were telling me about an incident that you had with your 16-year-old son about his phone, him disrespecting boundaries, the consequences.
4:21
SPEAKER_01: I need you to tell that story again.
4:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, goodness.
4:24
SPEAKER_00: Well, I want to start with just kind of the background on my child because he is an incredibly laid-back child, um, very well behaved, really has never said no to me ever.
4:38
SPEAKER_00: So he's just a great kid.
4:40
SPEAKER_00: And um, my my 18-year-old daughter was a little different, but I got one of each.
4:46
SPEAKER_00: So um he is a rule follower for the most part, but what I've realized is as teenagers get into those teenage years and you have the freedom and a car and all of that, you know, without really intentionally trying to bend the rules, he thought I can probably just come back whenever, um, or I'll use my phone whenever I want.
5:05
SPEAKER_00: And so I do have rules in my house and always have about checking your phone into my room at night.
5:11
SPEAKER_00: You're not gonna go to sleep with your phone in your room.
5:13
SPEAKER_01: Can we just take a moment and say that again?
5:15
SPEAKER_01: Because when you said that to me, I was like, holy moly, that is a phenomenal rule.
5:20
SPEAKER_01: So say it again.
5:21
SPEAKER_01: Say it again.
5:22
SPEAKER_00: No phones at night.
5:24
SPEAKER_00: I mean, and anyone who does research on that, it is so backed up.
5:28
SPEAKER_00: There is not anything out there that I've ever read that says having letting your kids, especially with developmental brains, brains that are not fully developed, allowing them to have access to a phone overnight is good for them.
5:42
SPEAKER_00: It's just not.
5:43
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
5:43
SPEAKER_00: And I think that going kind of off the conversation that we're gonna have today is a lot of like, I'm the parent, and so I'm creating a world in which I know you're gonna thrive.
5:55
SPEAKER_00: I'm not gonna put you in a world where you're at risk for falling short because I don't provide the boundaries that you need to be healthy and happy.
6:04
SPEAKER_00: And so, yes, that role has always been in my house.
6:07
SPEAKER_00: Your phone is in my room.
6:09
SPEAKER_00: Now it changes per age, kind of like curfew.
6:11
SPEAKER_00: And I think I was telling you 9:30, then 10:30.
6:14
SPEAKER_00: Now his curfew's 11:30.
6:16
SPEAKER_00: So your phone in my room at 11:30, just the same as I would expect you in my door at 11:30.
6:22
SPEAKER_00: And the experience that we had was that I got up.
6:26
SPEAKER_00: Of course, I'm I feel ancient, but I am the one that my kids tuck in, you know, and then they're up still.
6:32
SPEAKER_00: But I got up to let my dogs out and it was about midnight and did not see his phone in my room.
6:38
SPEAKER_00: So I looked up his location, of course.
6:41
SPEAKER_00: Thank God that I have that as a parent, but also thankful I they didn't, my parents didn't have it.
6:46
SPEAKER_00: We're not going there.
6:48
SPEAKER_00: So I looked up his location and saw that he was at home.
6:51
SPEAKER_00: So I'm like, where is he at?
6:52
SPEAKER_00: I text him and he was in my driveway with his girlfriend.
6:56
SPEAKER_00: And um, I was like, come inside right now.
6:59
SPEAKER_00: And he did.
7:00
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, we will talk about this tomorrow.
7:02
SPEAKER_00: But you know, you know, when I say phone in my room at 11:30, it means phone in my room at 11:30.
7:07
SPEAKER_00: And we talked about the next day, and he was like, you know, coming up with excuses that every 16-year-old, well, I was home.
7:13
SPEAKER_00: And it was just like I was right outside.
7:15
SPEAKER_00: I was just saying bye to her, all the excuses.
7:17
SPEAKER_00: Like, I get, you know, going back to authoritative parenting, I get what you're saying, and I understand you're you're kind of pleading your case, but the rule is 11:30.
7:27
SPEAKER_00: Bottom, there's no excuses.
7:29
SPEAKER_00: So don't do it again or you're in trouble.
7:31
SPEAKER_00: That same night, less than 24 hours later, um, he did something very similar where she was here and then um he decided to walk her out to her car.
7:44
SPEAKER_00: And again, I don't know because my dogs get up at 12:30 every night, but I woke up to let the dogs out and his phone was still not in my room, and it was 12:30.
7:52
SPEAKER_00: And that was really honest, if I'm completely honest, a very tough conversation for me to have with him because he is very um soft-hearted, and so he's never really been yelled at, but I was not happy.
8:07
SPEAKER_00: And he had walked her out to his car or her car, and he's like, I looked at the clock and I was like, it's right before I'm supposed to turn it in, but I'll just walk her out to her car.
8:18
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, There's no excuses.
8:21
SPEAKER_00: So um, a boundary is a boundary in my house, and I said, You are grounded, and I will take your phone and it will be mine for two weeks.
8:29
SPEAKER_00: You will not speak to your girlfriend, not because it's your girlfriend's issue, it's not.
8:33
SPEAKER_00: Um her curfew, she doesn't have one, but you do, and you disrespected my house and my rules.
8:39
SPEAKER_00: So your phone is mine, you will go to work, and that is all you will do for the next two weeks.
8:44
SPEAKER_00: And we just wrapped that up.
8:45
SPEAKER_00: So that was about two weeks ago.
8:48
SPEAKER_01: I just want to sit with this for a second because everything you say is so important for parents of adult children to hear because they struggle so much with boundaries and consequences.
8:58
SPEAKER_01: And I think I know you and I believe the same about that, and that is something that you talk about in your practice and you obviously practice at home.
9:06
SPEAKER_01: But so what's what's your overarching statement about boundaries and consequences before we get into the real topic that we're here for?
9:13
SPEAKER_00: Any parent, and I don't care if you are a parent of a two-year-old or a 26-year-old, if you are you have to remember you are the parent and you have control over that child in your home.
9:26
SPEAKER_00: And when my kid turns 18, if they want to leave the house, then I lose that control, right?
9:31
SPEAKER_00: But with boundaries and consequences, if you're not consistent with that and you're not very clear with your child about what that rule is and what the consequence is gonna be if you do not follow that rule, that child will take over your entire life.
9:46
SPEAKER_00: It just they just will.
9:48
SPEAKER_00: And it's not because you have a bad kid.
9:50
SPEAKER_00: I think that's something that I noticed people are like, you know, my kid's not a bad kid, or or you know, you might look at it that way.
9:58
SPEAKER_00: It really is just because we're human nature, we're gonna push the boundary.
10:02
SPEAKER_00: At any age, we're gonna push the boundary.
10:04
SPEAKER_00: Right.
10:04
SPEAKER_00: And so we have to provide a world in which the rules are very clear, not just in our home, but because that's the real world outside of the home.
10:13
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
10:13
SPEAKER_00: And you want your kids to thrive.
10:15
SPEAKER_00: So put them in an environment that's going to help them thrive outside of that environment by staying consistent with your rules.
10:21
SPEAKER_01: Right.
10:22
SPEAKER_01: Life at home air is life in the world.
10:25
SPEAKER_01: A million percent.
10:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
10:27
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
10:27
SPEAKER_01: When we were talking in our earlier conversation, you made an important point, and I wrote it down.
10:34
SPEAKER_01: So I want to kind of start it off this conversation with this.
10:38
SPEAKER_01: If you're supporting your adult kids, you're creating this little bubble for them, which is not real life, and it's going to hurt them.
10:47
SPEAKER_01: That statement is what landed us on this topic.
10:50
SPEAKER_01: The word support or what parents are doing is actually backfiring.
10:56
SPEAKER_01: You know, in fact, talking to enough parents, I'm beginning to see support as synonymous with enabling.
11:03
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
11:04
SPEAKER_01: Which for me is like another word for disabling, which makes them feel that they aren't capable.
11:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
11:11
SPEAKER_01: Are you seeing that in your practice as well?
11:14
SPEAKER_00: So much and in so many different ways.
11:17
SPEAKER_00: And like parents are different when, you know, based on how they're maybe enabling bad behavior and they label it as support because it makes them feel like maybe they're doing a better job.
11:29
SPEAKER_00: No one wants to say I'm enabling my child.
11:31
SPEAKER_00: No, I'm supporting them because I love them.
11:34
SPEAKER_00: Like I have a client who whose parents really struggle to let her experience the world or any kind of, and I see this a lot, I think we all do, parents who have children that they want to rescue from any kind of pain or discomfort.
11:49
SPEAKER_00: And this starts when they're little, of course.
11:51
SPEAKER_00: I don't want my kid to go out and be bullied, but there's some aspects of getting out in the world and someone mistreating you that becomes it can become a learning opportunity where I'm not gonna run to the school and rescue you.
12:04
SPEAKER_00: I mean, if you get in a fight or something, I will, but I'm not gonna go and yell at your teachers because they gave you a bad grade because you came home and you're crying about the bad grade.
12:13
SPEAKER_00: We're gonna have a talk about what you did and your responsibility in that bad grade.
12:20
SPEAKER_00: Because when you go out into the world, again, like we're it's not a bubble.
12:24
SPEAKER_00: And so, how can we support our child, like be there for them, validate, but also support them in a way where they become more resilient as opposed to more just more comfortable in this safe space that my parents have provided for me?
12:40
SPEAKER_01: 100%.
12:40
SPEAKER_01: And I see I see support that parents are doing now is more like crutch.
12:45
SPEAKER_01: It's a crutch.
12:46
SPEAKER_01: And I think that we should see support in terms of more of a ladder, not a crutch, a ladder that leads them upward or even stepping stones, if you will, that lead them forward.
12:57
SPEAKER_01: I'm really stopping to use the word support when I talk to parents because I don't want them to think that they should be supporting them in a way that's more like coddling or enabling.
13:09
SPEAKER_01: I want them to see support as actionable.
13:11
SPEAKER_01: Some these are steps that you should be taking to do something in support of their growth.
13:17
SPEAKER_01: Before we get into some of those actionable steps, because you know I always like to kind of help parents to move forward and have something that they can walk away with after they listen to this podcast.
13:27
SPEAKER_01: Let's talk about what you think gets in the way.
13:30
SPEAKER_01: What stops parents from actually being proactive in in the in the teaching?
13:36
SPEAKER_01: I mean, if you want, I can throw one out there, which is the the emotions, the fear-based parenting.
13:44
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
13:44
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
13:45
SPEAKER_00: I just think there's so much, like as you're talking, I'm thinking about a parent who tends to enable behavior without realizing, right?
13:53
SPEAKER_00: They think they're supporting is more about the parent's emotion because they don't deal with difficult emotion that they see when their child struggles.
14:04
SPEAKER_00: And I think we all do struggle with that.
14:06
SPEAKER_00: But like when my fear of my child struggling gets in the way, that's when I become an enabler or I'm not really supporting them.
14:15
SPEAKER_00: It has to do with the parent themselves and their inability to manage their own emotions around difficult situations that their kids are found in.
14:25
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
14:26
SPEAKER_01: In fact, the other day I was talking to a parent and I was asking them why they're not doing more, doing more in terms of, I would say, encouraging more.
14:35
SPEAKER_01: Why are they just letting them stay in their room gaming?
14:39
SPEAKER_01: Why aren't they, you know, encouraging them to do more?
14:42
SPEAKER_01: What came up was his own fear of estrangement.
14:47
SPEAKER_01: Because it's around him now.
14:49
SPEAKER_01: He's he's seeing, he's hearing other stories about other parents.
14:53
SPEAKER_01: So when I heard this, I was like, okay, hold on a second, let's talk about what estrangement looks like.
14:58
SPEAKER_01: Because what you're hearing is actually not, is not maybe not truth.
15:02
SPEAKER_01: And so I sort of wanted to relieve him of his fear that he's an excellent parent.
15:07
SPEAKER_01: I said, children don't estrange themselves from really loving parents.
15:12
SPEAKER_01: That's not what it's about.
15:13
SPEAKER_01: You're not hearing the full story.
15:14
SPEAKER_01: So I said, if you knew guaranteed that your son would never estrange himself from you, would you be willing to be a little bit more action-oriented, a little less afraid?
15:27
SPEAKER_00: You know, as you're talking, I'm thinking about a client that I have currently who is in her young 20s and um whose parents, I, you know, I've worked with her and her parents.
15:40
SPEAKER_00: There's been some supporting, and I would say enabling financially, like giving her money to take care of herself in ways that they sh really shouldn't be because she's working and she's doing all of these things, but she uses the financial help as a crutch and kind of stays stagnant and has started to make some bad choices.
16:02
SPEAKER_00: And what I've really been pushing these parents to do is to change like that, like we pull back what we're offering for help if you're not supportive of the decisions that are being made.
16:15
SPEAKER_00: Because when you do that, she is forced to make a decision.
16:20
SPEAKER_00: Do I want to go down this path?
16:22
SPEAKER_00: Which anybody that would know the real story would be no, that's not a path that she should be going down because it's easy for me.
16:28
SPEAKER_00: And if I don't do things right, or these people are in my life, and you know, it becomes abusive or messy, my parents will rescue me.
16:35
SPEAKER_00: So I'm just gonna do that because that seems like the easier, fun way to go.
16:38
SPEAKER_00: Or your parents withdraw that support, and then it makes you question how important is this bad decision to me?
16:46
SPEAKER_00: And she's forced to make that decision now as I sit with the parent, she's sobbing because she, like you said, is so afraid she's gonna lose her daughter.
16:56
SPEAKER_00: And I know these parents and they're good parents, but parents have to have faith in themselves and the the relationship that they've developed with their child to know that one, I'm doing this because I love you, and two, there is enough of a stable background to our relationship that if you decide to go down the path or I say, hey, you've got to do this, get up out of the house and get a job, and they say no, then you say you have to leave.
17:23
SPEAKER_00: And chances are they're gonna, if they leave, they're gonna realize it's a lot harder than they thought it was, and your relationship is not what's gonna be sacrificed.
17:31
SPEAKER_01: Right.
17:32
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so instead of suggesting to parents to be supportive, because I'm trying to get away from using that word, so the advice is clearer for them, because again, the word support is it's gotten so overused that it's almost like, what does it even mean anymore?
17:47
SPEAKER_01: Right.
17:47
SPEAKER_01: I I think I'm being supportive because I'm being their friend or what have you.
17:51
SPEAKER_01: So instead of suggesting to parents to be more supportive, let's redirect them to an approach that's more constructive, in other words, more actionable.
18:02
SPEAKER_01: So, what would you say to parents who say, okay, I'm gonna pull back on the support, what what can I do instead?
18:08
SPEAKER_00: To me, I think more along the lines of like teaching.
18:12
SPEAKER_00: How can you be a mentor or a teacher and model good behavior for that adult?
18:20
SPEAKER_00: But you know, and it should be across the board no matter what their age is, but absolutely as parents, can we look at it like it's my job to teach my child how to be a healthy, well-functioning adult?
18:34
SPEAKER_00: And so, how do I teach them how to do that as opposed to supporting them in this space that keeps them frozen?
18:42
SPEAKER_01: That's it.
18:43
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm I'm a big fan of encouraging and believing in them and teaching them.
18:48
SPEAKER_01: I love that you said teaching them, but modeling is like it's how you talk, it's how you act, it's in your expressions of joy, even in your expressions of your emotional reactions.
18:58
SPEAKER_01: I don't care how old they are, as long as they're living under your roof, they are watching you.
19:02
SPEAKER_01: And so you have so much power just in your behavior.
19:05
SPEAKER_01: You know, for a parent, the solution here is to watch yourself and be more logical.
19:12
SPEAKER_01: Take your emotions out of the equation and ask yourself this question.
19:16
SPEAKER_01: And we talked about this.
19:17
SPEAKER_01: Am I helping them to be able to live in this world without me?
19:23
SPEAKER_01: And in fact, in our conversation, there's another thing I wrote down, you said if they can't do life without you, that's a problem.
19:32
SPEAKER_00: Yes, it is.
19:33
SPEAKER_00: And I think that sometimes, like you said, we get caught up in our emotion.
19:37
SPEAKER_00: And if a client that's caught up in the emotion of like, but but my kid's different and life is really hard for her or him, and you know, they get socially anxious, and it's just really like they just are different.
19:49
SPEAKER_00: And it in that moment, if I'm like, take a step out from your life.
19:54
SPEAKER_00: Let's imagine your life is a movie and you're watching it.
19:57
SPEAKER_00: What would you say to that character?
19:58
SPEAKER_00: And that it's not your kid, it's that kid.
20:01
SPEAKER_00: Like, should that parent just keep them in that bubble and provide them with a safe space, or should they encourage them and teach them how to face those challenges, face the anxieties, face the fears?
20:14
SPEAKER_00: Because, like you said, when I die, my 25-year-old still doesn't have a license and has never left the house to get their own stuff or made a phone call for a doctor's appointment.
20:25
SPEAKER_00: How much is that really loving your child?
20:28
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you think you describe love as a way to provide a safe space for them, but without pushing them and challenging them and providing them with such an incredible opportunity to have pride.
20:40
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
20:41
SPEAKER_00: Like that's what we're we're robbing our kids of pride.
20:44
SPEAKER_00: Like I can do that.
20:45
SPEAKER_00: I did that by myself.
20:47
SPEAKER_00: You're doing it all for them, and that actually hurts them more than anything else.
20:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it is.
20:52
SPEAKER_01: You know, we can say this a hundred times.
20:54
SPEAKER_01: I know one of these days your parents are just gonna go.
20:56
SPEAKER_01: I get it.
20:57
SPEAKER_01: I get it.
20:58
SPEAKER_01: But it takes, take a beat before you give in or rescue or or do anything for them.
21:05
SPEAKER_01: Just hold on, walk away from the situation.
21:08
SPEAKER_01: Take a breath and say to yourself, okay, is this supporting them to the degree that I'm actually doing something for them?
21:16
unknown: Yeah.
21:16
SPEAKER_01: Because if I'm doing that, then I'm not helping them grow at all.
21:20
SPEAKER_00: I want to use an example too, I feel like might be beneficial, but the you know, with the kids in schools now, yes, they grow up and kids are mean, right?
21:30
SPEAKER_00: Adults are mean.
21:32
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it doesn't really stop.
21:34
SPEAKER_00: But, you know, I feel like with my children, that was one thing that, you know, I had the opportunity to say this, these kids are being mean to you and they're horrible kids, and that they shouldn't treat you that way, which is true.
21:48
SPEAKER_00: But instead, the approach was hurt people, hurt people.
21:52
SPEAKER_00: And people are gonna be mean to you.
21:55
SPEAKER_00: But what you do and how you process that is what's gonna make you resilient out in the World.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: Because if I protect my child from those kinds of hurts or dangers or, you know, scary situations, then they don't know how to face that out in the world.
22:12
SPEAKER_00: And so allowing your children, and again, as as adults, we can still do this, but challenging them to see that they can look at things differently too, and they can face things on their own and be successful is I think just if what parents actually decide to do that, it makes a world of difference for everybody involved.
22:31
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
22:31
SPEAKER_01: Can we talk about your daughter for a minute?
22:33
SPEAKER_01: Because I was watching um a couple of the podcasts where she is now living on her own, like you said, right?
22:41
SPEAKER_01: And I was listening to her and I thought it was so cute.
22:44
SPEAKER_01: You know, you asked you were asking her about her experience and did she think it was going to be like this.
22:47
SPEAKER_01: And she and her name is Savannah, right?
22:49
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
22:50
SPEAKER_01: Is she living with her boyfriend or not?
22:52
SPEAKER_00: No, he was.
22:54
SPEAKER_00: I I did a podcast with them here at my house.
22:56
SPEAKER_00: And then when she moved, he went to visit her for a week.
22:59
SPEAKER_00: And I did the podcast, the second one with him just visiting.
23:02
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
23:02
SPEAKER_01: I couldn't, I couldn't really get a read on it because he was there.
23:05
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, is he living with her or not?
23:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
23:07
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
23:09
SPEAKER_01: You know, it's very cute because she was complaining about taking out the trash, turning the lights off, yes, locking out the doors.
23:18
unknown: Yeah.
23:20
SPEAKER_01: The how many times he has to do, like pack the groceries.
23:23
SPEAKER_01: But so she was saying the grocery shopping.
23:26
SPEAKER_01: And then she even said, like, every responsibility falls on her.
23:30
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, now she gets it.
23:33
SPEAKER_01: They finally get all of the things you do, which which we just we we we actually take for granted.
23:40
SPEAKER_01: So, you know, again, another parent said to me, I don't know about the consequences.
23:44
SPEAKER_01: What consequence?
23:45
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, just think about every single thing you do for them, you pay for them, and you make life comfortable for them.
23:53
SPEAKER_01: And then now you've got a list of all the things that you can hold as consequences to when they don't do the things that you know are part of adulting in the home.
24:01
SPEAKER_00: My dad taught me very well, but I've always like really hammered in on saving, working, you're working from the time you can work, 16, I don't care part-time, you're working, but saving money.
24:13
SPEAKER_00: So 50% of everything you make when you don't have bills, 50% is going into savings.
24:18
SPEAKER_00: So she did a really great job of having quite a bit of money saved.
24:22
SPEAKER_00: And but still money.
24:23
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I just got off the phone with her earlier because she found out her rent's going to be higher than what she thought it was.
24:28
SPEAKER_00: And, you know, but but I'm like, you can do it because you're gonna do it, because you always do it, you know, and she's very confident.
24:35
SPEAKER_00: But in that podcast, if you heard she's saying that, and I was like, so basically you're realizing all the things I did and every parent does on a daily basis that kids take for granted.
24:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know.
24:47
SPEAKER_01: You know, you just said you just said that you how you like told her that you believe in her.
24:53
SPEAKER_01: I don't know about you, but I can't tell you how many parents forget to be optimistic and to let their adult children know that they they do believe in them because they're so consumed with worry.
25:05
SPEAKER_01: But have that blind faith that you're gonna be okay, you're gonna get through this.
25:09
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's so much power behind those words because if I'm a child or an adult living in my parents' home, and I'm just like, I don't, you know, I'm scared.
25:18
SPEAKER_00: I don't really think I'm gonna be what if I can't pay my bills and my parent says, I believe in you.
25:23
SPEAKER_00: Like you'll figure it out.
25:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
25:25
SPEAKER_00: And you know, I'll be there to support and help you guide you if that happens.
25:29
SPEAKER_00: But I know you can do it.
25:31
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna sit back and be like, my own parent believes in me, like I should believe in myself.
25:36
SPEAKER_01: That's it.
25:37
SPEAKER_00: And without that, a child is not gonna believe in themselves if they don't feel like their parent even does.
25:42
SPEAKER_01: A hundred percent.
25:43
SPEAKER_01: It so starts with us, the parents.
25:46
SPEAKER_01: Let's talk about your book.
25:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
25:49
SPEAKER_01: So making sense of dysfunction, how to heal, take control, and move forward.
25:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
25:57
SPEAKER_00: I wrote the book for my own as I was doing my own work with my family.
26:02
SPEAKER_00: Uh, have a very big family and lots of personalities, and I tend to kind of fall through the cracks or I have in my my life.
26:11
SPEAKER_00: So the book is more for people who are dealing with just the everyday dysfunction.
26:16
SPEAKER_00: So not extreme abuse or neglect, but rather like I just get really mad when I'm after I'm leaving my parents' house or my talk to my sister on the phone and she said something that really just bothered me.
26:28
SPEAKER_00: And I don't know, I can't believe she thinks that, all that kind of stuff.
26:32
SPEAKER_00: The goal in writing the book was to help people really do their own work on why they're, I don't use the word triggered, activated by interactions that they have with their family and how to come to a place in their life that they can have healthy relationships with those family members without feeling triggered, you know, to go in and kind of accept people for who they are and what they have to offer, as opposed to holding them to expectations that maybe they can't fulfill.
27:02
SPEAKER_00: That's of course easier said than done.
27:05
SPEAKER_00: But in the book, what you know, with each chapter comes self-reflection questions at the end where you can do your own work about what things you struggle with, particularly with your family.
27:16
SPEAKER_00: And a lot of that has to do with setting boundaries that are very healthy for you and your family, regardless of you know, who those family members are, because we can't change other people, but we can change ourselves andor the way we view our interactions with others.
27:34
SPEAKER_01: It's funny because the topics in your book are so relatable for parenting.
27:39
SPEAKER_01: You know, the emotional reactions, the boundaries, and the expectations.
27:44
SPEAKER_00: It could be used just the same as a parent reading that because they have issues with their child and they feel like they don't see eye to eye, and it's the constant, it's the same fight over and over again.
27:55
SPEAKER_00: And the goal in that book is to get people where they can really, it's almost like you're in counseling with me, is kind of how it's written, where if I'm your therapist, I'm gonna help you break that down and figure out why you keep arguing about the same things and what that could potentially be about, and then how you can do your own work to stop that from happening.
28:15
SPEAKER_01: I do want to ask you how was how's it been being a single mom?
28:18
SPEAKER_00: Ugh, it's been um, you know, I was divorced and my kids were one and three.
28:23
SPEAKER_00: So ups and downs.
28:25
SPEAKER_00: I will say my first three years or so was the most challenging for me, um, just financially, because I I had been fortunate enough to stay at home with them when they were babies.
28:38
SPEAKER_00: So I had to get back into the working, finding childcare.
28:42
SPEAKER_00: I think another challenge, the biggest one for me, was obviously managing the divorce and some conflict that came with that and how that played a role in my kids' lives.
28:54
SPEAKER_00: But, you know, I on the other end of kind of the spectrum of what we're talking about, sometimes I have questioned whether I push too much for independence on my own.
29:06
SPEAKER_00: So that as I'm modeling for my kids, something that again, I'm this isn't my own stuff.
29:12
SPEAKER_00: I work through like am I modeling that they don't need anybody because I'm the type of person that's like, I can just do it.
29:18
SPEAKER_00: I'll just do it all because that's what I'm gonna do.
29:20
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna do it all.
29:21
SPEAKER_00: And I have done it and I feel like I've done it well and I have amazing kids.
29:25
SPEAKER_00: But looking at my daughter, you know, she is very much like me and she's strong and independent.
29:31
SPEAKER_00: And I know she will conquer the world, so will my son.
29:34
SPEAKER_00: Anything that they want to do, they'll do.
29:36
SPEAKER_00: But I also want them to know that it's okay to, you know, depend on somebody else, like a partner, you know, in their future.
29:45
SPEAKER_00: But lots of challenges with single parenting for sure.
29:48
SPEAKER_01: I know it's hard being a single parent, but at the same time, I think there's so much gratification to it.
29:54
SPEAKER_01: Parents will say to me, What do I do when there's two different homes?
29:57
SPEAKER_01: They go to their dad's home and it's one way, they go to my home, it's another.
30:00
SPEAKER_01: And I say, you work on your relationship with your adult child.
30:05
SPEAKER_01: When you have a strong relationship with your adult child and you're teaching them about life, it doesn't matter what goes on in the other house.
30:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
30:14
SPEAKER_01: You you become that's their solid, that solid force, that safe place, the teacher and the advisor and the one that guides them during this time.
30:24
SPEAKER_01: And they will come back to you when they're even a little bit later probably to know that you made sense what you were doing.
30:32
SPEAKER_01: Even though you were strict, you made sense.
30:35
SPEAKER_00: I had full custody of them, but they still spent time, you know, would see their dad on visits and and I struggled with that for sure.
30:41
SPEAKER_00: But one thing that I had to, I learned pretty quickly was I have to let go of what's happening at his house when my kids would come back and tell me and it would make me mad and I would be worried for them or whatever.
30:54
SPEAKER_00: But no matter what, in the long run, they're always going to remember how they felt with you.
30:59
SPEAKER_00: And creating that safe environment for them, that is what's going to keep them close to you and solid in that relationship.
31:06
SPEAKER_00: Even if there's a period of time, and there was with my daughter, a couple years where I could do nothing right and he could do everything right.
31:14
SPEAKER_00: And those were really hard years for me.
31:16
SPEAKER_00: But staying firm to knowing who I am and that I've loved my children with every fiber in my being, and everything I do is for them.
31:24
SPEAKER_00: And I'm not perfect, but providing that safe space for her, eventually she came back.
31:31
SPEAKER_00: For parents listening, it is that fear of like, oh my gosh, I'm gonna lose my kid.
31:36
SPEAKER_00: That was such a huge fear for mine.
31:38
SPEAKER_00: I I would, I'm not even a crier, and I would call my mom and cry, and she said, just keep doing what you're doing, you know, keep doing, keep loving her, and she will figure it out eventually.
31:48
SPEAKER_00: Hardest two years of my life, but she came back around because I stayed consistent with who I was as her mom.
31:55
SPEAKER_01: I love it.
31:56
SPEAKER_00: It was hard, but yeah, I love that.
32:00
SPEAKER_01: Amanda, I always want to leave on a positive note.
32:03
SPEAKER_01: Uh is there anything you'd like to share with these parents who are going through this, especially when it comes to being uh overly supportive?
32:12
SPEAKER_01: What what words of wisdom do you have for them?
32:15
SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm like a strong advocate and proponent of just giving yourself grace.
32:20
SPEAKER_00: Now, not giving yourself grace to the point where we're letting things slide, but the first step is really knowing like maybe this isn't good for my kid.
32:29
SPEAKER_00: And maybe I do need help and support in how I'm managing this.
32:33
SPEAKER_00: So one, you've acknowledged that maybe you're not doing things perfectly and you need help.
32:38
SPEAKER_00: That's amazing.
32:39
SPEAKER_00: And then find a therapist who can help you navigate those difficult days of like, I really want to rescue them, but I know I shouldn't because I've been educated and taught that what's best for my kid is different.
32:53
SPEAKER_00: And then when you slip up or it gets difficult, give yourself grace and just keep trying because I know, gosh, if you're a parent, you know it's hard.
33:03
SPEAKER_00: It is hard.
33:04
SPEAKER_00: It's the hardest thing I'll ever do.
33:06
SPEAKER_00: And I do think there's so much pressure on us.
33:09
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, for anyone listening who's struggling with something like this, my biggest advice would be, you know, one foot in front of the other.
33:17
SPEAKER_00: If your goal is to make your child the healthiest version of themselves, that you can do it, just don't give up.
33:24
SPEAKER_00: Stay consistent.
33:25
SPEAKER_01: It gets easier if you do the work.
33:27
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
33:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
33:28
SPEAKER_01: Because when I talk to parents who's whose young adults are in their 30s, they regret it.
33:32
SPEAKER_01: They regret that they weren't a little a little firmer, you know, took a little bit more time to teach them when they were younger.
33:39
SPEAKER_01: But parenting, it never ends.
33:41
SPEAKER_01: It's a never-ending.
33:42
SPEAKER_01: No.
33:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it doesn't.
33:44
SPEAKER_00: And you're right, it gets it'll get harder before it gets easier, especially if you're not really making those changes until your child's in their 20s.
33:52
SPEAKER_00: They're gonna fight it a lot more.
33:54
SPEAKER_00: But that consistency of one foot in front of the other, they're gonna fight, fight, fight.
33:58
SPEAKER_00: And then eventually that fight dies down and they go with it because you're their parent and you're guiding them in the right direction, finally.
34:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
34:07
SPEAKER_01: Thank you for being here.
34:09
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thank you so much for having me.
34:11
SPEAKER_01: I love I love talking to somebody who I feel so aligned with.
34:15
SPEAKER_01: Please come back and join me here on launch anytime.
34:19
SPEAKER_02: Yes, absolutely.
34:20
SPEAKER_01: I will leave your podcast, your book, and how to contact you in the show notes.
34:27
SPEAKER_00: Sounds good.
34:27
SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
34:28
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
34:29
SPEAKER_01: Just a quick reminder that if you enjoy listening to launch, hit the follow button so you never miss an episode.
34:36
SPEAKER_01: And if you know another parent who would benefit from it, please share this with them.
34:41
SPEAKER_01: You know, I very rarely ask, but apparently leaving a rating and review is one of the best ways for launch to reach more families who are looking for answers.
34:52
SPEAKER_01: As always, thank you for listening.