Latest / The Uplifters / How to be Radically Self-Posessed

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How to be Radically Self-Posessed · The Uplifters

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  [music]
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  SPEAKER_01: Hey, Uplifters, you know how much I love experimenting and trying new things.
• 0:09
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• 0:13
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• 0:16
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• 0:21
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• 0:30
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• 0:33
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• 0:46
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• 0:50
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• 0:53
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• 0:56
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• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: Because I mean, who doesn't love a little surprise in the mail?
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: Check out Join the Tryb and use code UPLIFTER20 for 20% off the website for your first order.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's Join the
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: Tryb.com.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: T-R-Y-B.com.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to The Uplifters Podcast,
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: where every week we get to hear from inspiring midlife women and learn from them
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: that we can all do bigger and braver things in midlife and beyond.
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  SPEAKER_01: This week, I'm talking to Angela Burk.
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  SPEAKER_01: She's an award-winning marketing leader who spent three decades scaling companies
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  SPEAKER_01: from scrappy startups to Fortune 500 giants
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  SPEAKER_01: before doing something her 20-year-old self probably would have thought was insane.
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  SPEAKER_01: She left.
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  SPEAKER_01: She left the corporate ladder.
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  SPEAKER_01: And just like so many of my clients have done,
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  SPEAKER_01: she decided to pursue something with more meaning,
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  SPEAKER_01: more purpose, and a whole new level of learning and impact.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: She is the author of the bestselling book,
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  SPEAKER_01: Real Girl's Guide to Midlife and the voice behind
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  SPEAKER_01: a thriving community that's reshaping how women step into this phase of life
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  SPEAKER_01: with what she calls radical self-possession.
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  SPEAKER_01: In our conversation,
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  SPEAKER_01: we're going to dig into what that actually means and How we shed the stories
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  SPEAKER_01: that no longer serve us.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: I said to a client this morning that I think
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  SPEAKER_01: the biggest mistake I watch women make is holding on with little tiny talons
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  SPEAKER_01: to pieces of their history for questions.
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  SPEAKER_01: Also,
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  SPEAKER_01: we're going to talk about some of the stories we have been fed about what's possible
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  SPEAKER_01: in midlife and what the potential is.
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  SPEAKER_01: And what it takes to take up the space that we have earned through all of our giving
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  SPEAKER_01: and all of our living and all of our caregiving for others and the courage it takes
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  SPEAKER_01: to rewrite the rules for ourselves when maybe everybody else expects you to stay on
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  SPEAKER_01: that ladder that you started climbing.
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  SPEAKER_01: So Angela,
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  SPEAKER_01: thank you so much for being here and thank you so much
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  SPEAKER_01: for writing this incredible book.
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  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you for having me.
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  SPEAKER_00: The idea for the book is actually one that I had when I was in my mid-30s.
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  SPEAKER_00: I was struggling with a lot of transitions.
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  SPEAKER_00: I was a mom of two in a marriage that I was pretty sure was not going to go
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  SPEAKER_00: the distance at a career turning point.
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  SPEAKER_00: My appearance was starting to change subtly, nothing drastic, but subtly.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I didn't know that even my hormones were starting to change.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I was just confused.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I was looking around and everybody seemed to have their shit together.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I thought, it must be me.
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  SPEAKER_00: I'm the crazy one.
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  SPEAKER_00: This is all in my head.
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  SPEAKER_00: So I started writing down questions and confusion.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I knew that I had a story to tell.
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  SPEAKER_00: I wanted to hear what other women were thinking and experiencing.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I wanted to hear from experts.
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  SPEAKER_00: So I put the book together in a red folder.
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  SPEAKER_00: That then literally, you know, literally and figuratively got married for 20 years.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I found the folder in December of 24 and I opened it and I was like, well, look at that.
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  SPEAKER_00: Turns out I still have a lot of the same questions and struggles.
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  SPEAKER_00: I have a whole host of new ones, a lot of life that I lived in that 20 year period.
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  SPEAKER_00: So I think I can write this book.
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  SPEAKER_00: And that's what I did.
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  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
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  SPEAKER_01: And did you see yourself as an author at that point?
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  SPEAKER_00: No, not at all.
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  SPEAKER_00: I gave myself three months.
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  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
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  SPEAKER_00: So I found the folder in December 24.
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  SPEAKER_00: And then I needed to kind of talk myself in and out of this process because like
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  SPEAKER_00: a lot of the stories that we are told,
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  SPEAKER_00: Like a lot of the stories that I internalized about who I was and my worth
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  SPEAKER_00: and my capability, I asked myself questions like, can I write this book?
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  SPEAKER_00: Should I write this book?
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  SPEAKER_00: Who the hell do I think I am to think I could write a book?
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  SPEAKER_00: But the good news was that during that period,
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  SPEAKER_00: what I had spent really decades agonizing over those same stories and patterns that
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: In almost every aspect of my life,
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  SPEAKER_00: it took me very little time to change the question, which was, why me?
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  SPEAKER_00: Who am I to think?
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  SPEAKER_00: To why the hell not me?
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  SPEAKER_00: And so I just started writing and I had no plan.
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  SPEAKER_00: I loosely kind of knew what I wanted to write about.
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  SPEAKER_00: So no, I didn't.
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  SPEAKER_00: But I got quickly to an answer that said, no, I'm not.
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  SPEAKER_00: Who the hell am I to think I could be?
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  SPEAKER_00: To why the hell not?
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  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
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  SPEAKER_01: And I hear in that the question that a lot of us ask ourselves in midlife,
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  SPEAKER_01: that we realize that we've been putting limitations on our self-perception.
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  SPEAKER_01: And there's been a significant amount of research that shows that in midlife,
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  SPEAKER_01: our self-perception really takes shape.
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  SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
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  SPEAKER_01: And that sense of self is why so many women relate to the no fucks left
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  SPEAKER_01: to give mentality to see ourselves as a person who doesn't know it all,
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  SPEAKER_01: who is flawed,
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  SPEAKER_01: who makes mistakes alongside the person who has a lot to offer and is able
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  SPEAKER_01: to withstand the not knowing and the discovery.
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  SPEAKER_01: I hear so much of that echoed in your story.
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  SPEAKER_01: At what point did you leave your corporate career?
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  SPEAKER_01: And what were you thinking as you said, I'm done?
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  SPEAKER_00: So I left my corporate career in December of 24.
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  SPEAKER_01: And I had the luxury.
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  SPEAKER_01: This is all happening at once.
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  SPEAKER_00: It's all happening at once.
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  SPEAKER_00: And this is the thing that I think is very fascinating.
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  SPEAKER_00: So as women, I think a lot, we're not blessed with the benefit of one transition at a time.
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  SPEAKER_00: You know,
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  SPEAKER_00: a lot of these things are sort of a big storm and confluence of a lot of transitions
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  SPEAKER_00: and changes and opportunities and fears and doubts all swirling together
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  SPEAKER_00: at one time.
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  SPEAKER_00: So if I go back to December of 24,
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  SPEAKER_00: my partner who lives in Australia,
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  SPEAKER_00: which is crazy enough, I don't, I live in California.
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  SPEAKER_00: He sold his business and he said to me, guess what?
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: You get to retire.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I kind of had to think about that.
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  SPEAKER_00: Because it was going to mean a shift in how I had perceived myself for many, many decades.
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  SPEAKER_00: It was going to be a shift in the teamwork and the partnership that we had spent
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  SPEAKER_00: a decade kind of crafting.
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  SPEAKER_00: But then I quickly got to thank you.
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  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I will do that.
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  SPEAKER_00: And so what happened was I retired in December of 24.
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  SPEAKER_00: I found this folder.
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  SPEAKER_00: So the book idea that I had lived in a red folder and I was cleaning out my desk,
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  SPEAKER_00: like literally cleaning off my desk.
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  SPEAKER_00: I had a little tiny pile, not a big one, but a pile.
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  SPEAKER_00: That had been sitting there for,
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  SPEAKER_00: I don't know, like through how many different moves and jobs and whatever.
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  SPEAKER_00: So I started to go through the file and I found the folder.
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  SPEAKER_00: And so I thought, okay, I could do this.
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  SPEAKER_00: And then I was reaching out to a couple of past colleagues and they were like, hey,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: you should start advising and consulting because turns out I actually know a lot
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  SPEAKER_00: of shit in all of the marketing jobs I had.
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  SPEAKER_00: And despite the stories that I let other people tell about me,
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  SPEAKER_00: like such as you're an execution machine, you're not strategic enough.
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  SPEAKER_00: You aren't visible enough to the right executives.
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  SPEAKER_00: It's like, cool, I am an execution machine.
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  SPEAKER_00: I am highly strategic.
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  SPEAKER_00: And the reason why I'm not visible is because my shit is always clean.
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  SPEAKER_00: So I realized that I knew a lot.
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  SPEAKER_00: So I was putting myself out into the world and I began consulting and advising
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  SPEAKER_00: within a month of my retirement.
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  SPEAKER_00: And it was like nothing big and I didn't need to,
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  SPEAKER_00: but I found myself having conversations about subjects
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  SPEAKER_00: that maybe were not my domain, but turns out I knew a lot.
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  SPEAKER_00: And people wanted to know what I knew.
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  SPEAKER_00: So I kind of like had this confidence moment,
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  SPEAKER_00: which was I get to decide who I work with,
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  SPEAKER_00: when I work,
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  SPEAKER_00: How I work and the things that I work on all while this book idea was sort
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  SPEAKER_00: of percolating.
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  SPEAKER_00: So it really was this confluence.
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  SPEAKER_00: And then,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: if I look at my personal life,
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  SPEAKER_00: I had two boys,
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  SPEAKER_00: two of my three boys who were out in the world,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know, together, my man and I have a staggering number of children.
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  SPEAKER_00: We have seven children.
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  SPEAKER_00: So a lot of things were changing for, you know, the kids who range in age from 15 to 30.
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  SPEAKER_00: And then I was like, Cool.
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  SPEAKER_00: Well, this is what it's going to look like.
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  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to do consulting and I'm going to write this book and I'm going to start a Substack.
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  SPEAKER_00: And again, for me, it changed the question from why me?
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  SPEAKER_00: Can I?
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  SPEAKER_00: Should I?
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  SPEAKER_00: Who do I think I am to?
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  SPEAKER_01: Why the hell not?
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: You were offered this opportunity to have an exit.
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  SPEAKER_01: Where were you in the lead up to that?
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  SPEAKER_01: Were you like, oh, I am meant for something more.
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  SPEAKER_01: I am done and bored.
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  SPEAKER_00: Well, and you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: it's funny that you asked me that because where I was into the lead up of that was
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  SPEAKER_00: if I rewind the clock back about three years prior to December of 24,
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  SPEAKER_00: I took on a very challenging role at my company.
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  SPEAKER_00: And it was a domain that I had spent zero time in, in my career.
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  SPEAKER_00: So I took on this role and I knew it was going to be really, really hard.
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  SPEAKER_00: I had no idea how hard it was going to be,
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  SPEAKER_00: but I lived through a three-year period that was incredibly difficult.
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  SPEAKER_00: I was learning a new domain.
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  SPEAKER_00: I was learning a new domain inside of a system that had some breaks.
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  SPEAKER_00: And so me,
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: my team of what became 32 people,
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  SPEAKER_00: other teams inside this business had to come together
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  SPEAKER_00: and start breaking apart processes and systems because we knew
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  SPEAKER_00: that there were issues.
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  SPEAKER_00: And then we had to rebuild.
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  SPEAKER_00: So it was a really trying time.
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  SPEAKER_00: It was probably the time in my career where I felt the most imposter syndrome,
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  SPEAKER_00: if I'm honest with you.
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  SPEAKER_00: I'd be sitting in these meetings going, what are you all even talking about?
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  SPEAKER_00: I don't even understand what you guys are talking about.
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  SPEAKER_00: But I figured it out.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I did.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I leaned into all the things that I knew to be true about myself.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I did the work.
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  SPEAKER_00: But it was exhausting.
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  SPEAKER_00: So as I'm kind of going through this three-year period,
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  SPEAKER_00: in my head, I was like, I do not have this in me.
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  SPEAKER_00: And so I mentally knew I wanted to get that team,
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  SPEAKER_00: the set of problems that I was tasked with to a place of solution and
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: where everything was like trending green, everything was good.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I knew that I was going to be making a change.
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  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know what it was going to look like, but I knew I could not keep that pace anymore.
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  SPEAKER_00: I didn't want to.
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  SPEAKER_00: I knew that the stories that I had let others tell about me in
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_00: a professional setting that then became the stories I believed about myself for
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  SPEAKER_00: a long time were patently false.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I knew that in whatever was going to come next, again,
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  SPEAKER_00: during that time,
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  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know exactly what was going to come next,
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  SPEAKER_00: but I knew whatever was going to come next was going to be on my terms.
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  SPEAKER_00: So I had that mindset shift.
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  SPEAKER_00: It's not like it hit me all at once.
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  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't a light bulb moment, but it was this signals.
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  SPEAKER_00: And when I slowed down and I started to pause and look at them, they became very clear.
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  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think that's the key for so many of us.
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  SPEAKER_01: On that hamster wheel,
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  SPEAKER_01: you just keep going and going and saying yes and figuring it out
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  SPEAKER_01: and being resourceful and managing whatever comes at you.
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  SPEAKER_01: But the second you have a moment to step back, it's like, number one, I'm exhausted.
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  SPEAKER_01: Number two, what am I even doing on this wheel?
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  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
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  SPEAKER_01: Is this the only way or is there another path?
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  SPEAKER_00: That's exactly right.
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  SPEAKER_00: And then when I,
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  SPEAKER_00: in working on the book,
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  SPEAKER_00: so not only is the book filled with my stories,
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  SPEAKER_00: but it's filled with stories of other women at various decades, right?
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  SPEAKER_00: Women in their 30s and 40s,
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  SPEAKER_00: women in their 50s like me, 60s, 70s,
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  SPEAKER_00: and even a woman in her 80s,
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  SPEAKER_00: which is my favorite,
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  SPEAKER_00: one of my favorite stories in the book, this period of transition, right?
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  SPEAKER_00: And you can call it midlife.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: Midlife is not a magic decade.
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  SPEAKER_00: It's not a, you know, a five-year period.
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  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't look the same for each of us.
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  SPEAKER_00: But it is kind of a reclamation, right?
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  SPEAKER_00: Where all of a sudden you stop.
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  SPEAKER_00: And the signs for me and for a lot of the women that I talked to were there.
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  SPEAKER_00: Your life doesn't feel like your own anymore.
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  SPEAKER_00: You know, for me,
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  SPEAKER_00: it was I didn't always recognize myself in the parts of my life that I was living.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I felt like I lost the parts of me that really were the ones that made me mean.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I spent so many decades sort of editing those parts out,
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  SPEAKER_00: being small, trying to be the peacekeeper.
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  SPEAKER_00: I had the metaphorical clipboard for everybody around me,
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  SPEAKER_00: whether that was at work,
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  SPEAKER_00: whether that was at home,
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  SPEAKER_00: whether that was in my personal relationships, my friend, like wherever it was.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I started to see that the best parts of me were being edited out.
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  SPEAKER_00: And then I didn't even recognize myself.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I see that play out so many times.
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  SPEAKER_00: For so many women,
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  SPEAKER_00: and again,
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  SPEAKER_00: it's not like for many of us,
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  SPEAKER_00: it's not like these big light bulb moments,
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  SPEAKER_00: but it's if you just quiet the noise and you just observe,
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  SPEAKER_00: the signs are very present.
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  SPEAKER_01: What parts of yourself did you feel like you were hiding?
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  SPEAKER_00: I think some of the parts where I began to internalize a story
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  SPEAKER_00: that somehow I just wasn't enough.
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  SPEAKER_00: That me as my person,
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  SPEAKER_00: whatever I brought to any metaphorical or physical table wasn't sufficient.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: I would feel guilty for saying no, right?
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: My ability to say no would be,
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: oh my gosh,
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  SPEAKER_00: let me apologize and give you all the reasons why I can't do
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  SPEAKER_00: the thing you're asking me to do.
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  SPEAKER_00: So I would say no with an essay or a dissertation.
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  SPEAKER_00: And that felt disingenuous to me.
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  SPEAKER_00: I also believed that my sole job was to exist
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  SPEAKER_00: to make everybody around me comfortable, to make them feel safe.
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  SPEAKER_00: To make the load less for them without realizing that I was taking on the load.
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  SPEAKER_00: And at work, I think I started to mistake kind of competency and capability became my currency.
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  SPEAKER_00: I sort of relied on that.
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  SPEAKER_00: And then suffered in the process.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I didn't even realize it was happening.
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  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: and I think if I look at an example of how that played out,
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  SPEAKER_00: a really good one is even in my marriage, right?
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: So I sort of white knuckled my way through my 30s and 40s.
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  SPEAKER_00: The hormones were changing again.
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  SPEAKER_00: I didn't have language.
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  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know what was happening.
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  SPEAKER_00: I just was like, everything feels like it's just in turmoil.
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  SPEAKER_00: Then, you know, had a realization with my ex-husband.
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  SPEAKER_00: We decided to divorce.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: But even in the lead up to that,
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  SPEAKER_00: I somehow told myself this story that my kids deserved an intact family more
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  SPEAKER_00: than they deserved a happy Angela.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I don't even think my boys really knew me until we made the decision to separate.
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  SPEAKER_00: But I told myself a lot of these stories.
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  SPEAKER_00: And then I just internalized the ones that other people told about me.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: And then I just didn't even recognize my own self anymore.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know what I mean?
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_01: It was like, who am I?
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: And who am I?
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I think,
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: when you look at the stories that I share in the book and what
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: so many other women shared,
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: and even the experts kind of created these threads through,
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: you know, a lot of these things have been modeled for us, right?
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like somehow we're modeled to and maybe rewarded,
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: either internally rewarded or externally rewarded to keep the peace, to shrink.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: To be the even keeled,
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: the ones who don't cause grief,
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: the ones who kind of keep everything smooth and steady.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I think for me, that got rooted into things like my happiness doesn't matter.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: My desires don't matter.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: And by putting myself first on the list, everybody else is going to suffer.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: So how the hell am I supposed to do that?
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so you're seeing all of what it costs you to meet this need
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: and not paying attention to all it's costing you to not meet it.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: Correct.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I think too, a lot of us, for me, I'm a planner.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I think for a lot of things in my life,
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: I sort of felt like I needed to have the perfect plan.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I needed to have every possible scenario like built and torn apart,
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: mitigation risks, all the things, right?
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like I had to marinate in the gutter of worst case scenario on everything.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: And in reality, I just needed to start.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: The perfect plant doesn't exist, right?
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: But just the decision, hey, this thing is not working for me.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: I don't like myself or how I feel in this thing.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to make one small change.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: I don't have to have the perfect plan, but I just have to do or I just have to begin.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: And that was really scary too.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I heard that echoed in a lot of the women that I spoke to for the book.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: But the reality is you just have to start.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: That's it.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: I call it the 2% principle.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like do the tiniest version of this.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: The least scary, but the most active.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: You talk a lot about telling the stories that nobody was telling and being honest
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: about some of the lies we've been fed.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: So what is it that we aren't saying that you feel like we all need to hear again and again?
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's a very good question.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: I think for me, the starting point is the need to rewrite some of these stories, right?
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: And whether those stories are about aging, worth,
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: desirability,
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: ambition, all of it, those old scripts that Are different for each of us.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: And they run deeper or less deep depending on who we are,
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: whether it's our satisfaction in the bedroom,
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: the career aspirations we have, our appearance, our relationships.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's so different for each of us.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: And for me, those stories were rooted in these principles.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: Number one, that my happiness needed to come last.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: Because if my happiness came first, other people would be suffering.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: How can I be the cause of somebody else's suffering?
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: And that fundamental belief became the narration of a lot of
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: the ways I viewed my life and the decisions that I made.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: That I was wrong for wanting more.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: Whether that was in the bedroom, at work, or relationship, whatever.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: I was wrong for wanting more.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: And so I found through connecting with so many women that the fundamental premise
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: in those stories starts with these talk tracks.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: I shouldn't do this.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: And who am I to think I can do this?
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: And who am I to want something more?
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: And really the thought process needs to be inverted to why the hell not?
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: Why the hell not me?
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: Why the hell shouldn't I want more?
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a hard shift to make, but it is a powerful one.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: Those questions give us so much great data about where we're getting in our own way.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_01: And oftentimes the answer to your point is just entirely flip them around.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: You have been through so much change over the course of really a short time.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: What does radical self-possession look like in your daily practices?
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: Some of the biggest shifts have come in the way I show up for myself
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: and other people around me.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: I'll give you a couple of examples that I don't think are dramatic,
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_00: but have been absolutely astoundingly beneficial to me.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: The best kind.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: So the idea of saying no, okay, right?
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_00: That for decades of my life, I didn't think I could say no.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't think I should say no.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know how to say no.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought that in doing that, I needed to apologize.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I owed people explanations and justification.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I was going to get graded on it and whether it was right enough or wrong enough or whatever.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: And so the shift became, guess what?
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: No is a full sentence.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: And if no doesn't feel good, here's three words.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not available.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: That's three words.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: If something comes up as an example,
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: and how I kind of got to that point was I found myself saying yes to things
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: that I actually wanted to say no to.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, why am I saying yes to this thing, this project?
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: Why am I in an argument with a friend when I know that I don't believe it?
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I had to pay attention.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: And then it was like, okay, cool.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: If no doesn't feel like no is a full sentence,
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: but if that feels a little bit difficult, I'm not available.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: I don't agree.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: So that's one way.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: The other one, which was a really big one for me, asking for rest.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: The idea of saying, I'm exhausted.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: I can't do it.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: I need to stop.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: That felt for so long like a sign of weakness in that.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: And it wasn't even like, I'm not feeling good.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: I need to go lie down.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: It was deeper than that.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: It was the idea that enough was enough.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: A, I'm enough.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: And B, I wish I would have said enough in other situations, like stop, enough.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: But the idea of asking for rest or saying, I'm done.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: I'm tired.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: I need a break.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: It felt so foreign to me.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: But now the idea of,
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: so it's not like these big dramatic,
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: like unlearning and unpacking,
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: but it's being present and recognizing that there are parts of me,
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: things that I need in the moment that I don't owe anybody an explanation for,
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_00: that I get to claim as my own,
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: that I get to ask for and demand, and I'm not apologizing for them.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: How messed up is it?
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like if I look at my partner and go, I've been running around like a crazy person.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: I'm handling everything for the kids.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: I need help.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: Why was that so hard for so many decades to just sit down with my partner and go, I need help.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: I need a break.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: My favorite little script that I practice all the time now is I'll get back to you.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: Let's see.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: I'll get back to you.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: Five words.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: That's it.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: And that's it.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have to justify it.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'll get back to you because of all these.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: And you can, and you will.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know why I've been so afraid my entire life of forgetting to follow up
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: on things that I just say yes in the moment, which is a really unhelpful pattern.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: But you're not the only one.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's so true.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: We're all in this together and that's why we need books like yours to...
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: A, I mean, I think that's where you began.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: You said, I thought I was broken.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: And we need stories like this to say, no, this is a thing.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: It happens.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: Let's talk about some other ways to manage it so it doesn't have to keep happening.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: So as we start to wrap up here,
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: every woman who comes on the show nominates a woman who inspires her,
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: who she thinks would inspire us,
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: a woman who is uplifting others and doing really impactful and meaningful work.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: So who do you want to nominate?
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: Well, okay.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm going to give you somebody that I actually connected to in the course of my book.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: She's the oldest real girl in the book.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: Her name is Diane Heiler and she is in her 80s and she wrote her first book
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: in her late 70s.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: She lost her second husband and she wrote a book about grieving.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: She was not a writer and she wrote this book.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: And so I had the good fortune of connecting with her as I was writing my book.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: Her book is called A Widow's Fire.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: Please, I just...
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: Please support her.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: Go get it on Amazon.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: It is an amazing book.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: And she wrote about grief in such a touching and raw way.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_00: Also through the course of writing about grief, she also got into poetry.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: Again, so we're talking a woman in her 80s tapping into these amazing gifts
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: that were probably always there, but now she's letting them flourish.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: But one of the last things I asked her was something to the effect of what's been
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: the most surprising thing about finding love in your 80s.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: And she said, I'm paraphrasing, that the parts still work and I like it.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I decided like that is, I want to live like Diane.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_00: I do not want to be embarrassed, ashamed, editing, softening my view on desire and pleasure.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: I am a little bit obsessed with her.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: Same.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: I was raised by my grandmother who we lost last year.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: She was 95 and she would never have talked about sex.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: She had her own level of badassery in that up until her last day,
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: she was running and doing headstands and literally throwing her legs up
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: over her head in the hospital bed.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_01: The last thing she did standing was hula hoop.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_02: Oh...
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: She was deeply, wildly playful.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_01: I have hundreds of videos of her just like breaking into dance with people
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: and she called it Get Low.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: Get Low is one of my favorite songs.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_00: Wildly inappropriate.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's like a real similar energy.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: I wish they had known each other.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: I've got the visual.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: I totally want to meet her and read her book.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: So you said so beautifully and powerfully, like, go read the book, support her.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: As Uplifters, we live to amplify and celebrate and support Uplifters.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: So one of the things I ask everyone...
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: Every guest to do is make an ask of the community
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_01: because I think that's another thing we're told not to do is to ask for our needs
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: to be met to everything you've said.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_01: So this is your invitation, your moment.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: We want it.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_01: Tell us what you want from us.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: How can we support you in your work?
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: So one thing I'd like everybody to do.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: So one of the things in the book I end with is a manifesto.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a very simple personal contract that we make with ourselves.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: So what I'd first like everybody to do is think of one thing you want to lose.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: You want to let go of one thing you want to reclaim and one small way you're going
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: to make a change starting today and use that as your personal contract.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_00: That's it.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_00: And it could be as simple as I'm not going to say yes to everything.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to learn to say no or I'll get back to you.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_00: And this week I'm going to practice saying it to my partner, my boss, my kid, my girlfriend.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: One time you're going to practice it.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: So that's one ask I have.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: And then ways to support me.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's Real Girls Guide to Midlife,
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: available on Amazon, bookshop.org, all the places that you love to buy books.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: Check out my substack, which is Real Girls Guide to Midlife.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: Dig in, share what's resonating, what you love, what you hate.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: What's happening for you?
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: And then follow me on the socials because I am new to the socials.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: I am mega cringy.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: You can find some really cringy reels on Instagram if you just want to laugh
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: at my awkwardness because that would be fun.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, just dig in and share.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_00: So we're not alone.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: We're not alone.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_00: We're not crazy.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_00: All this stuff is not in our head and it takes a village.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: It really does.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I think part of what I'm hearing in there is like, be an active participant.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, certainly just like following somebody is great, but comment, like engage.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's part of how we don't feel alone in all
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: of this is people just actively showing up.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I know we all only have so much time and energy to put into that stuff.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: But if you're there,
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: let it be an active moment.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: Does it resonate?
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_00: If you go, actually, I don't agree.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_00: Or, hey, this is what worked for me.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_00: Please, we all, we don't gatekeep.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like we cannot gatekeep anything, the good, the bad, the ugly.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's a really important ask.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm so glad you raised that.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_01: It was really nice to meet you, Angela.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for writing this book.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: I can't wait to read it.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for your nomination.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm so glad to be following your Substack and to keep reading your work there
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: and on socials.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: And for those of you listening, go and do all the things.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: And then as always, let us know who you want to hear more from, what you want to learn about.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: And you'll find me also on Substack for the most part.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, very cringy over on Instagram.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what I'm doing there, but I just keep trying.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_02: I love it.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for listening to The Uplifters Podcast.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: If you're getting a boost from these episodes,
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_01: please share them with The Uplifters in your life and then join us in conversation
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_01: over at theuplifterspodcast.com.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_01: Head over to Spotify,
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_01: Apple Podcasts,
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_01: or wherever you get your podcasts and like, follow, and rate our show.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_01: It'll really help us connect with more uplifters and it'll ensure you never miss one
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_01: of these beautiful stories.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_02: Big love.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_02: Painted water, sunshine.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_02: With rosemary and tongue, dwell in love perplexing, though you find it vexing.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_02: Toss a star and hover, be your own best lover.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_02: Relish in a new prime, plant a tree in springtime.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_02: Dance with idle hindsight, bring the sun to twilight.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_02: Lift you up.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_02: Lift you up.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_02: Lift you up.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_02: Lift you up.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_02: Beautiful.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_02: I cried.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_02: It's that little thing you did
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_02: with your voice.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_02: Right, in the pre-chorus, right?
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_02: Uh-huh.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_02: I was
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_01: like... Mommy, stop crying.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_01: Mommy, stop crying.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_01: You're disturbing the peace.