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Prequel to The Christmas Shoes - A Little Princess Fan Reaction, Is This Hallmark Christmas Movie Real or Fake? · This Film is Lit

• 0:07
  Speaker A: On this week's prequel episode, we follow up on our little princess listener polls, play a Hallmark Christmas movie game and preview the Christmas shoes. Hello and welcome back to our Christmas prequel episode of this Film is Lit podcast where we talk about movies that are based on books. We we don't have a learning things segment this week, as I mentioned in the intro, but we are going to play a fun little game later after we get our feedback. So let's get right in to our patron shoutouts.
• 0:45
  Speaker B: I put up with you because your father and mother were our finest patrons.
• 0:48
  Speaker A: That's why one new patron this week joining us at the $5 Hugo Award winner level, Austin Arminio. Thank you, Austin Arminio. Make sure you check out all that bonus content. Got a backlog now of quite a few. How long have we been doing that? At least a couple years, I think.
• 1:05
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, we've been doing that two or three years consistently for a few years.
• 1:10
  Speaker A: We had bonus content previous but it was like more sporadic. We started doing an every month episode a couple years ago. So you got at least like 20 or so episodes, if not more to listen to on that bonus content. So go check all of that out and thank you for joining us. And as always, we have our Academy Award winning patrons and they are Nicole Goble, Eric Harpo Rat, Nathan Vic Apocalypse, Charlene Mathilde, Steve from Arizona Int Draft Teresa Schwartz, Ian from Wine Country, Kelly Napier Gratch Justgratch. Shelby says playing that last Christmas song every year makes it feel like the narrator always gets dumped on Boxing Day. That darn Skag V Frank and Alina Starkov, thank you all very much for your continued support this last Christmas. I gave you a heart. Yeah.
• 2:05
  Speaker B: The whim. Sorry.
• 2:06
  Speaker A: Yeah. Oh, the very next day. Yeah. And that's true. Well, because that is what it is.
• 2:13
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 2:14
  Speaker A: I mean that. Well, I guess the idea being like he wrote it in time of a specific Christmas, but if you listen to.
• 2:19
  Speaker B: It every year, you listen to it every year, it happens to him every year.
• 2:22
  Speaker A: Very unlucky, very tough life for the lead singer of Wham. Which isn't. That isn't the lead singer of Wham, Danny Elfman?
• 2:32
  Speaker B: I don't know any of the singers of Wham.
• 2:35
  Speaker A: I am fairly certain this is also.
• 2:38
  Speaker B: The only Wham song I know.
• 2:40
  Speaker A: I am fairly certain. Oh no, it's George Michael. Wham is George Michael and Andrew Ridgely. What am I thinking of?
• 2:47
  Speaker B: I have no idea.
• 2:48
  Speaker A: Danny Elfman was the lead singer of another like popular 80s. What the heck? Oingo Bang Oingo Boingo. Because it's a similar weird name that sounds like a toy company. And that's what it was. It's Wham and Oingo Boingo.
• 3:03
  Speaker B: Well, they're both. They're both onomatopoeias, kind of.
• 3:06
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And that's what I was thinking of. But, yes, Wham is George Michael. Oingo Boingo is Danny Elfman. And I was thinking of Danny Elfman because we just watched Nightmare Before Christmas, and that bonus episode for our patrons will be out shortly, so look out for that in the coming days. All right, thank you, patrons, for your continued support. Katie, it's time to see what people had to say about a little princess. Yeah, well, you know, that's just like.
• 3:31
  Speaker B: Your opinion, man on Patreon. We had two votes for the book and two for the movie. Kelly Napier said, oh, I had to go with the movie on this one. As ridiculous as it was, I liked the fact that her dad wasn't really dead in the movie. It was a lot easier to pull the plot together than having a family down the road where the dad just happens to be employed by the dude who lives next door to find Sarah. Yeah, I got you.
• 4:00
  Speaker A: The family down the road where the dad just happens to be employed by the dude who lives next door. That sentence. My brain can't parse that sentence.
• 4:08
  Speaker B: So you remember I mentioned that something the movie left out was the large family.
• 4:13
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 4:14
  Speaker B: So the father of the large family is a lawyer who works for Mr. Carrisford who's trying to find Sarah. So he's helping Mr. Carisford try to find Sarah.
• 4:27
  Speaker A: Gotcha.
• 4:27
  Speaker B: Yeah. And, yeah, I would. I would generally agree it's maybe a little cleaner. Yes. Like it. It kind makes less sense, kind of.
• 4:35
  Speaker A: Yeah. But it's a little cleaner, a little more ridiculous. But it's definitely less convoluted to explain.
• 4:42
  Speaker B: Yeah. Kelly went on to say, I also liked the reason in the movie why her dad has gone away. Leaving to fight in a war is a lot more of an emotional plot device than him leaving her to go try to get rich mining diamonds.
• 4:57
  Speaker A: That's true.
• 4:58
  Speaker B: I will say, though, I don't think that he leaves her because of the diamond mines in the book at the beginning. And I could be misremembering because I only read this once. In the beginning of the book, she's going away to finishing school, because that's just what you do. I don't think. I don't think it, like, he's sending.
• 5:23
  Speaker A: Her away because of the thing. Whereas in the movie it seems very clear that she's going to this boarding school because he's going.
• 5:28
  Speaker B: Because he's going into the war. Whereas in the book it's more like, okay, time to go to finishing school. Because that's what.
• 5:36
  Speaker A: That's what you do now.
• 5:37
  Speaker B: That's what you do now. That's what well bred young ladies do. And then the diamond mined things happen. Gotcha again. I could be misremembering that.
• 5:47
  Speaker A: Right.
• 5:47
  Speaker B: But I will, I will. I will agree that it is a more emotional plot point in the movie. One thing I did prefer in the book to the movie is where the story took place. It always seemed weird to me that a British soldier living in India would send his kid to an American boarding school. Yeah, I'm still.
• 6:06
  Speaker A: Wait, wait, so book does take place in America? I thought it.
• 6:09
  Speaker B: No, Kelly prefers that the book takes place in London as opposed to the movie that takes place in America.
• 6:20
  Speaker A: Right. But isn't. Aren't they. Are they British in the movie?
• 6:24
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 6:24
  Speaker A: Are they.
• 6:25
  Speaker B: Yeah, he's like a British soldier.
• 6:27
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 6:28
  Speaker B: Stationed in India now. I feel crazy.
• 6:30
  Speaker A: That doesn't make any sense. So for some reason I assumed that they were just American and that he went to New York or whatever.
• 6:38
  Speaker B: Well, and it's also, as we established, too early for America to be in the war.
• 6:43
  Speaker A: Yeah. So Britain would be in the. Okay, then that makes. Okay. Because that's. That's the part that was confused because I was like. But we talked about America going into the war, which only matters if he's American. If he's British, then. Yeah.
• 6:56
  Speaker B: The reason that I was kind of nitpicking the timeline was because we see the. The guy who lives next door.
• 7:02
  Speaker A: Oh, right.
• 7:03
  Speaker B: Which assume for the war, we have much more reason to assume that he's American.
• 7:08
  Speaker A: Maybe he was in the French Foreign Legion or something and they got pulled in. I don't know if the French Foreign Legion agent was involved in. I don't know, but you know what.
• 7:15
  Speaker B: I mean, she just really felt strongly about the cause.
• 7:18
  Speaker A: Yeah. I don't know if anybody thought strongly about the cause of World War I. I could be wrong about that.
• 7:24
  Speaker B: But anyway, Kelly went on to say, this was such a staple of my childhood. Thanks for the walk down memory lane.
• 7:32
  Speaker A: Of course. And we will have to do Secret Garden one day. Yes, that is. That is the staple that I recall of these two.
• 7:42
  Speaker B: Our next comment was from Nathan, who said, I prefer the book because I liked watching the almost inhumanly unbotherable version of Sarah. She truly doesn't seem bothered by anything. And the one time she actually lashes out at all, she notes it as weird. I love how matter of factly she deals with Ms. Minchin, not even bothering to pretend to be grateful for the nothing she's given. I honestly also really enjoyed the book's characterization of Sarah. We had a couple other comments, I think, talking about how she seemed like, too good and like not very realistic. And I can agree with that. But I don't know, there was something kind of satisfying about it, like, about the like, serene way that she dealt with everything. And it was very. It was very like. It's a very turn of the century characterization of your hero.
• 8:35
  Speaker A: It's interesting too, because I think there can be children that act like that, but it. But they. They probably don't realize they're doing it and have the internal recognition of the fact that they're kind of operating in a way that is a little strange. A little strange. Whereas it sounds like in the book, since you're in her head, you may. That maybe she's kind of aware of the fact that she's like, particularly stoic or whatever.
• 9:06
  Speaker B: I don't know.
• 9:07
  Speaker A: And I don't know if a little kid would be aware they would just act that way because I just don't know if little kids have that sort of inner. At least I don't feel like I didn't when I was a little kid, that sort of inner reflection to be like, I am very stoic or whatever.
• 9:20
  Speaker B: What Nathan's referencing here is a specific moment in the book where she does get upset with Ms. Minchin. And then afterwards she's kind of like, well, that was odd. I don't usually let her ruffle my feathers. So it's more like her acknowledgement of that one moment as an aberration as opposed to her going the whole way through being like, I'm so stoic.
• 9:45
  Speaker A: Right. But I think even that feels maybe a bit. And maybe I'm wrong and I'm just forgetting how much I had that sort of inner reflection as when I was a kid. But I feel like I really didn't have much inner reflection till I was like 28. So I feel that way about myself a lot. And I. And I think it. Maybe that's just a. Maybe that's a reality of being human, that you kind of always feel that way. But I really don't know. I would say it's probably until around the time we got together where I feel like I really became an introspective human who like, thought about the way I interacted with the world, if that makes any sense.
• 10:29
  Speaker B: I wonder if maybe this is a gender thing or like being raised in a particular way as different genders, because I kind of feel. I kind of feel the opposite. I feel like I've always been kind of introspective and like keenly aware of the way that I'm acting.
• 10:53
  Speaker A: It depends because I have also felt that way. I was a very anxious child who was very aware that I was very shy. So like, I was aware that through my whole childhood that I was like a shy kid. So I guess that. I guess maybe I am, but I guess I. What I'm getting at is that I never felt like I got to a point where I was like, introspective about it and also like working and cognizantly like, trying to affect the way. I don't. I don't know how to describe it. Cause like I said, it's not that I wasn't unaware of like my whole childhood. I was a very. I was a very shy kid and I always knew I was very shy and I always, like, I was very self conscious about how other people viewed me and stuff like that and like how I was perceived and all that kind of stuff. But like, I don't know. I don't, I don't know the difference. There's some. For some reason in my head, there's this delineation between that and then like, the point where I felt like I actually started thinking about like being more emotionally introspective, which I think could still be true of what you're. I don't know. I don't know what I'm trying to get at, but it is. Never mind. I'm done. I don't, I don't know.
• 12:06
  Speaker B: Well, and I just want to clarify that the reason I bring up like, gender.
• 12:10
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 12:11
  Speaker B: At all.
• 12:11
  Speaker A: Oh, yeah.
• 12:12
  Speaker B: Is because pretty much anybody who is raised female can tell you that you're raised very. To like, very much be aware of.
• 12:24
  Speaker A: Yeah. The way you.
• 12:25
  Speaker B: Of feelings and of the way that you are interacting with everyone else in the world and kind of being like, aware of. How do I even explain this? The way that you have an effect on other things. Yeah. But also you and I are probably not the best, like, case study for that because we also had wildly different upbringings.
• 12:52
  Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's tough too because there's an interesting aspect to it of like, because I was also very. I have my entire life and still, still to this Day have always, at least to my memory, been very aware of and very conscious of, like, if I'm imposing on other people or making other people uncomfortable, I. I feel like I've always had that and it's part of what was. Made my anxiety kind of bad at like when I was younger of like I. I would never put myself out there to like, you know, the idea of like inviting myself to. To something or like pushing myself into a social interaction between other people if I didn't feel like I was wanted. I have always been super highly, like conscious of that. So I'm not even sure what the distinction is that I'm trying to get at. But there is this. I have in my head this, this kind of moment where I feel like I. I became more emotionally introspective and I feel like that didn't really happen until I was significantly older. I don't know. I don't know. Anyways.
• 14:05
  Speaker B: Well, tell us your thoughts. I don't know. Nathan went on to say, I do prefer the fact that the movie kept dad alive. I was frustrated that if the books were willing to stretch so far to reverse 90% of Sarah's trauma, but it didn't deal with the worst part. None of it was realistic at all. So why only restore the money? Turn of the century? I don't know. Yeah, I don't think Ms. Minchin's behavior is explained by trauma in the book. I think she is a capitalist and her motivation is purely based in money. I would agree with that. She doesn't care about any of the kids, but she is angry at Sarah because she lost a lot of money on her 11th birthday. Sarah spent at least six years and probably more in the house. She finds out her father is dead on her 11th birthday, so that is four years. Carrisford spends two years looking for her and he doesn't start until sometime after her father dies. So we have at least 6. The gap in between the death and the beginning of the search is unclear, but it seems like a while because Carrisford is out of his mind, sick and very slow to recover. I looked into this because I swear the book says she spent 10 years at Ms. Minchin's, but I couldn't find that when I searched. Not sure what value this provides, but it does make me wonder how long girls spent in preparatory school. Lavinia is 13 at the beginning, so she would be 19 at a minimum at the end. That seems too old. That does seem a little like. I feel like that's the kind of thing that would Finish at like 17 or 18, maybe. Although I really truly don't know. But yeah, that does seem like maybe.
• 15:49
  Speaker A: A little old for a finishing school.
• 15:52
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 15:52
  Speaker A: Yeah. I don't know. I don't. I don't actually know the age range, but I would have assumed like 16 or 17.
• 15:56
  Speaker B: But, yeah, I would assume like somewhere in the 16 to 18 range because then, like, you go and get married because that's what's done.
• 16:04
  Speaker A: Right.
• 16:05
  Speaker B: But I. I have no idea. All of my knowledge of turn of the century preparatory school is gleaned from historical fiction.
• 16:14
  Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I've never done any actual research.
• 16:19
  Speaker B: Nathan's final comment was that shot Brian mentioned with snow blowing in didn't strike me as particularly beautiful. But that's mostly because I was stressed out the whole time about who was going to clean up all that snow in the attic room.
• 16:32
  Speaker A: It just melts.
• 16:34
  Speaker B: It probably doesn't melt because it's so cold in the attic. So she just does. And then at that point, I guess it doesn't matter.
• 16:41
  Speaker A: Sweep it out.
• 16:41
  Speaker B: Yeah, it's fine.
• 16:42
  Speaker A: She cleans it up. She's a scullery maid now. So, like, what do you mean? Of course she does it. Yeah.
• 16:49
  Speaker B: Our next comment was from Matilde, who said, I only read the book for the first time last year. So even though I enjoyed it, it had no chance to win against a movie I've watched at least once a year for the past 30 years. Oh, Mathilde was also the patron who requested this. I forgot to mention that. Yep, book. Sarah was lovely, but she's a bit too good to be believable. I prefer the movie version and the focus on her imagination. She feels more realistic and less perfect too. But I do miss the family of rats. They were the best part of the book and I worried for them too. So I get Katie's feelings. I was really, genuinely very concerned. I was like, is she gonna go get Melchizedek and his wife and children? Because what are they gonna eat? She was feeding them. I agree with the criticisms you brought up, but to my sentimental heart, the movie is still excellent.
• 17:43
  Speaker A: It's still very good.
• 17:44
  Speaker B: Yeah, still very good.
• 17:44
  Speaker A: I have not. Not all of our criticisms were, you know. I still wouldn't say it wasn't. Look, it's still very good movie. It's just not like the ending's a little.
• 17:54
  Speaker B: Yeah, I cry at all the expected moments. That scene where she draws a chalk circle in the attic kills me every time. As unrealistic as her dad, still being alive is for A plot twist.
• 18:06
  Speaker A: I don't think it's unrealistic that he's alive. I want to stress, because things like that happen. It's a little crazy that he ends up. Which, again, it's magic. Like, that's the whole thing. It's not even that it's unrealistic. It just feels. I guess maybe it's being unrealistic as part of it. The mix up feels a little convoluted and a little like, I don't know, manufactured. And then the fact that he ends up with the neighbor. But again, you can just hand wave it all away by being like, it's magic.
• 18:35
  Speaker B: Yeah. All of that stuff doesn't bother me so much as him getting his memory back in the next.
• 18:41
  Speaker A: I think that's the thing.
• 18:42
  Speaker B: I think if they had explained that like a little more, I might have been like, okay.
• 18:48
  Speaker A: Or not even explained it, but just had it happen slightly differently.
• 18:52
  Speaker B: I don't.
• 18:53
  Speaker A: I don't know. Like, if he had.
• 18:55
  Speaker B: Because I don't know if we're supposed to think that something happened to make him recover.
• 19:00
  Speaker A: You know what would have been great?
• 19:02
  Speaker B: What?
• 19:03
  Speaker A: At some point. Here's the rewrite. My rewrite.
• 19:05
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 19:06
  Speaker A: At some point. You know the locket?
• 19:07
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 19:09
  Speaker A: At some point. Cause Sarah steals the locket back from what's her name. Then she. The mismention. Then Mismention comes up and steals it again. At some point, the monkey comes and takes the locket from Ms. Minchin. After she gets it back from Sarah, takes it over and gives it to Ram Dass.
• 19:32
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 19:33
  Speaker A: And at the end, Ram Dass gives Captain what's his name the locket. He opens it. Opens it and goes.
• 19:41
  Speaker B: Sees his wife and remembers.
• 19:43
  Speaker A: And that's what.
• 19:45
  Speaker B: I like that.
• 19:45
  Speaker A: There you go. Something like that.
• 19:47
  Speaker B: Something like that. Yeah. And. And I like that. That makes the monkey more of like a plot point.
• 19:54
  Speaker A: Yeah, I think that could work. And that's like a class. And maybe that's a little. But that's a classic thing. Monkeys like taking trinkets.
• 19:59
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 20:00
  Speaker A: Yeah. It's like kind of a classic.
• 20:01
  Speaker B: It's like a trope.
• 20:02
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 20:05
  Speaker B: Continuing with. With Matilda's comment, I cry at all the expected moments that. Oh, wait, we already read this, didn't we?
• 20:12
  Speaker A: Yeah, you did.
• 20:13
  Speaker B: Yeah. Unrealistic. As unrealistic as her dad being alive is for a plot twist, I'm still a sucker for the suspense it builds through the movie and for the emotional reunion. The scene where she crosses the plank was the most stressful thing ever to me as a kid. And even with its flaws I see today, I still find it a real nail biter. I was in love with the fashion in this movie. The whole aesthetic of it really was an obsession for little me for years. Like a pre gothic phase. Considering the dark palette, I could see that. Yeah, for sure. Nobody did goth better than the Victorians. Really? Yes.
• 20:49
  Speaker A: I mean, honestly.
• 20:50
  Speaker B: But really, the main reason I'm so attached to this movie is because it was the beginning of my interest in all production aspects of cinema. It's the first time I remember focusing on the sets, the cinematography, the music, the costumes, etc. The scene with the snow blowing into Sarah's room was basically imprinted in my memory and still mesmerizes me today. I don't think many kids movies have this much care and richness in the production design. It's probably why it stood out for me. I'm fairly confident I wouldn't have become so into cinema if it wasn't for this movie and how effective its mix of story and production is.
• 21:28
  Speaker A: I completely agree with that. I could see this movie and like I said, maybe I did see it. I don't remember. But I could totally see this movie being. Because. Because you're right, it is definitely one of those. As for a kids movie.
• 21:39
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 21:40
  Speaker A: It is among most sort of like cinematically expressive films that I've. Like kids movies that I've ever seen. I'm sure there are other ones, but like, especially from this time period. Whereas more modern kids movies tend to be a little more like junk food. Yeah, a little more like junk food. A little more like let's just shoot everything on a green screen and just, you know, but not that there's anything wrong with that. But depending on what it is. But like this is definitely, you know, for a movie, the kind of. If you want to. This is the kind of movie that will inspire a child to like really get into like the craft of cinema, as you said. Because it does. It looks unlike most other children's movies because it is shot like a period drama, like for adults.
• 22:34
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 22:35
  Speaker A: But it's like a story about a little girl telling made up stories. Yeah, like a similar thing. Well, now it's not a kids movie. Nevermind. I was gonna compare it to Pan's Labyrinth, but that's not remotely a kids movie, so I don't. Never mind.
• 22:50
  Speaker B: But the fact that you could draw a comparison I think says something about the level of care and production and artistry in this movie.
• 22:59
  Speaker A: And it doesn't. Which I think is something that Ebert Kind of got to in his review a little bit. It doesn't. It doesn't care to try to speak down to its audience. It's a kids movie. It knows it's a kids movie, but it doesn't go well. We gotta make it look like a kid's movie.
• 23:12
  Speaker B: And if you've been listening to us for any amount of time, you know that we really appreciate when children's media does not talk down to its audience, because you shouldn't talk down to kids. They're also people.
• 23:24
  Speaker A: Yeah, you have to adjust some things in some ways, but you can't, you know, like, maybe the way this wrap. The story wraps up is a little, you know, like, kind of crafted for children and where it wraps up kind of cleanly with a very happy ending in a way that's. It's also just kind of Hollywood. But, you know, there are elements of it, I think, in that. But. But in terms of the craft of how it's shot and the music and. And the attention to detail in all of the art direction and all that sort of stuff, they weren't like, well, kids won't notice that, so who cares? It was this. We're making a movie. We're making a piece of art. It's gonna look great. And yes, it's for kids, but kids, that will make it, you know, that will create an even more memorable experience for the children, which I think is the proper way to go about it.
• 24:08
  Speaker B: Well. And as we can see from Mathilde's comment here that it worked. Yeah, it worked. Kids do notice when you put that level of care into art for them. Mattel's last comment here was regarding the scene where Sarah and her dad say their goodbyes. And there are the couple of cuts that bothered Brian. If it was done on purpose, I have a theory. It feels like it's a moment out of time or stolen, and also a moment that both Sarah and her dad wish wouldn't end. Having those cuts makes it feel like the time elapsed is unclear. It's short, but who knows if the cuts don't actually mean quite a bit of time past? So it's a way to confuse us about time and make us feel like Sarah and her dad must feel too. At least that's how I saw it.
• 24:54
  Speaker A: I think that's a very reasonable interpretation of it. And I. I think it kind of works. Especially later. I will say I went back and watched this again after. While I was editing the episode, after we recorded the episode, and I watched the scene again and I think the big thing that really stands out to me, and not that this negates or goes against what you're saying, because I think it could still work, but the thing that's really, really jarring in the scene to me is that the first time the cut happens and I showed this to you is. And you can go and watch it on YouTube if you search like a little princess, goodbye scene or something like that, it'll come up. And it's that in the scene, at one moment, the father is talking and he finishes part of a sentence, and then he takes a breath in, and we hear him take the breath in, like he's. And he doesn't. He hadn't finished his sentence yet. He's in the middle of a sentence, he takes a breath in, and then we get the dissolve, and it's very jarring and. And. And I don't know. And I was trying to watch it and be like, okay, was he gonna say something that, like, the movie was like, he cut off? And the. The way the dissolve happens within the middle of his sentence right after he takes a breath feels like a mistake. I'm not saying it is, but it feels like a mistake.
• 26:20
  Speaker B: No, I. I mean, I would agree. I. I don't know. I think.
• 26:25
  Speaker A: But again, I think overall, I think that interpretation, especially for the later parts, where it's kind of going in and out and it's like, between sentences, and it does feel more like we're kind of watching time pass nebulously in a way that we're not sure. And I think Mathilde's interpretation is really good. It makes a lot of sense, but it's that first one that is so awkward and jarring that it. I don't know.
• 26:49
  Speaker B: Yeah, no, I think you're right. It's specifically the fact that it seems to cut him off mid sentence that makes it feel unintentional.
• 26:57
  Speaker A: Yeah. And not like it because. Because cutting him off mid sentence there doesn't feel like it. It helps enhance this thematic reading of it of, like, getting lost in time. It more just feels like a weird edit. But again, I could be wrong. Maybe that is what they're going for. And it just. And again, I agree, the rest of the scene plays and feels that way, but that first one. And if you wind the scene, it's like. Anyways, we'll. You'll. You can watch it again and see. It's very interesting.
• 27:24
  Speaker B: All right, jumping over to Instagram, we had zero votes for the book, four for the movie, and one listener who couldn't decide. And Hannah Joseph messaged us and just said, a childhood classic.
• 27:38
  Speaker A: Short and sweet.
• 27:39
  Speaker B: Short and sweet. They voted for the movie.
• 27:41
  Speaker A: There you go.
• 27:42
  Speaker B: So obviously something that they grew up with as well.
• 27:44
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 27:46
  Speaker B: And then hopping to Goodreads, we had one vote for the book and zero for the movie. And we had a comment from Mikko who said, I found comparing the book and the movie pretty hard this week. Both have their strengths and weaknesses. The movie editions felt very much like movie editions, but I have to say the film got me to chuckle a couple of times. Both endings felt coincidental, but I can overlook that in something intended for kids. I liked that Sarah helping the starving beggar child amounted to something in the book, eventually getting the kid a job in the bakery. Sarah deciding to use her regained wealth to feed the starving was also a nice touch, even though it had a certain. Now that I've experienced hunger, I realize it's actually bad vibe. I kept also thinking that the imaginary dinner in the movie would have only made me hungrier. Yes, in the book, they actually have something to eat, thanks to Ermengarde and a gift box from her hand. I was expecting to vote for the movie, but the more I think about it, I believe the book is actually slightly better, since this is the last prequel episode of the year. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.
• 28:56
  Speaker A: Thank you, Mikko. Same to you and same to all of our listeners.
• 29:00
  Speaker B: So our winner this week was the movie, with six votes to the book's three, plus our one listener who couldn't decide.
• 29:08
  Speaker A: There you go. All right, thank you all for your feedback. Katie. Now, we don't have a learning things segment this week, but what we do have is a fun little game we're gonna play called. Can you guess how many of these Hallmark Christmas movies are fake?
• 29:25
  Speaker C: I have figured out every Hallmark movie. I figured out the formula. I've created a Hallmark generator to generate any Hallmark Christmas movie. There's three essential elements and TED categories in every of those elements. And here we go. Okay, the lead is one of these things. An event planner, a real estate person, an animate, an interior designer, a baker chef, an executive, a romance writer, a famous actress, singer, a shop owner, earned vice columnist. That's it. That's all the opp. That's all there are. And they are one of these places. The location is New York Fish Museum, back in time, North Pole town with a Christmas Day. Small town in New York, small town in Colorado, small town in rond, Small town in Maine or small town in snow.
• 29:57
  Speaker A: That's it.
• 29:57
  Speaker C: That's all the possibilities. And they're all filmed at a small town in Canada. They are. That's where they're filmed. And then romantically, it is one of these things. A prince, a workaholic, an architect, an executive, a single father, coffee shop owner, a high school flame, famous actor, singer, son, working father of Christmas tree farmers.
• 30:13
  Speaker A: That's it.
• 30:13
  Speaker C: That's all the movies.
• 30:16
  Speaker B: All right, so this is a thing that I found online. Yes, it is. From decider.com and this article is from 2020, so there's not going to be anything like super recent on here.
• 30:32
  Speaker A: Yeah. Also just to clarify, the movie we're doing is not a Hallmark movie.
• 30:35
  Speaker B: No.
• 30:36
  Speaker A: But. Which we'll get to. But, you know, it's close enough.
• 30:39
  Speaker B: But Hallmark Hallmark Christmas movie is also. Yeah, it's also one of those phrases that I don't. I think there's a technical term for it that I don't know where the, like, specific phrase has become generic.
• 30:51
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 30:52
  Speaker B: And we kind of just use Hallmark Christmas movie to refer to any, like, made for tv, ridiculous, sappy holiday movie. Like, generic movie.
• 31:02
  Speaker A: Yes. I agree. It has a lot of times when people say Hallmark Christmas movie, they don't care if it was actually on the Hallmark channel or not. Yeah, yeah. There is a term for that, and I don't know what it is, but that thing where something that is an example of a thing gets expanded out.
• 31:18
  Speaker B: And becomes like Q tip or Vaseline.
• 31:22
  Speaker A: Right. Like, that's specifically a brand, which I guess this is because it's also a brand. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah, that's interesting. I know there's a word for that. But anyways.
• 31:32
  Speaker B: All right, so the premise here, and I did not actually look at any of these because I didn't want them spoiled. So hopefully this doesn't just suck. So the premise here is that I'm gonna read the title and, like, a brief synopsis of.
• 31:55
  Speaker A: I'm so sorry, that can't be the word. I just looked up what the word is. A trademark. When a brand name acquires substantial market dominance or mindshare, becoming so widely used for similar products or services that it is no longer associated with the trademark owner. Example, bubble wrap. Thermos. Thermos. Taser, linoleum, whatever. Q tip.
• 32:19
  Speaker B: Mm.
• 32:21
  Speaker A: It's known as genericide. That can't be.
• 32:26
  Speaker B: That sounds made up.
• 32:28
  Speaker A: I thought there was another word for genericization or genericide.
• 32:34
  Speaker B: Will you send that to me or, like, take a screenshot or something and send it to you?
• 32:40
  Speaker A: That's from Wikipedia. But.
• 32:42
  Speaker B: So the premise of this game is that I'm gonna read the title and brief synopsis of a purported Hallmark Christmas movie.
• 32:52
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 32:52
  Speaker B: And then we're going to guess if we think it's a real movie or not.
• 32:56
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 32:57
  Speaker B: And again, I have not looked at any of these fantastic. And I'm gonna try. I'm gonna scroll really carefully because I don't even know how this article is set up. All right, so our first one here is Never Kiss a Man in a Christmas Sweater.
• 33:13
  Speaker A: Is that the name?
• 33:14
  Speaker B: Yes, that's the title. Synopsis. Single mom Maggie is facing Christmas alone until Lucas crashes into her life and becomes an unexpected house guest. Together, they overcome Christmas while finding comfort in their growing bond.
• 33:32
  Speaker A: They overcome Christmas.
• 33:34
  Speaker B: I don't know what that means.
• 33:35
  Speaker A: What was the name of this again?
• 33:37
  Speaker B: Never kiss a man in a Christmas Sweater.
• 33:41
  Speaker A: I'm gonna say this is real.
• 33:46
  Speaker B: I'm gonna say not real because I don't understand the synopsis, but maybe that.
• 33:54
  Speaker A: Means I agree, and that's why I think it's real. It's too incoherent to be fake because this is pre AI writing. So this is 2020, right?
• 34:04
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 34:04
  Speaker A: AI didn't write that, so.
• 34:06
  Speaker B: Oh, this is real.
• 34:07
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 34:08
  Speaker B: The real movie. Never kiss a man in a Christmas sweater. Okay. What Overcome Christmas. I don't know what that mean.
• 34:17
  Speaker A: I guess the idea is that they're like, kind of scrooges.
• 34:19
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 34:19
  Speaker A: Or like, she's a scrooge, maybe. And doesn't. I don't know. Yeah, because I. That was the thing that hung me up. I'm like, what does.
• 34:24
  Speaker B: Overcome Christmas crashes into her life and becomes an. Where does he come from?
• 34:29
  Speaker A: I assume crashes into her life means, like, he get. They get in a car accident. Or like. Or maybe a shopping cart. Meet cute. Where he bangs into her at the.
• 34:37
  Speaker B: Grocery store, crashes his car into, like, her front yard or something.
• 34:42
  Speaker A: Something like that. Or like, they're sl. She's like that walking past, and he's like, sledding.
• 34:46
  Speaker B: Oh, yeah.
• 34:47
  Speaker A: Maybe something like that.
• 34:49
  Speaker B: We should just write Hallmark Christmas movies.
• 34:52
  Speaker A: I'm pretty sure all Hallmark Christmas movies are written by AI Now, I think that job. That market. That job market has been cornered by AI, if I had to guess.
• 35:01
  Speaker B: Okay, the next one is called Rad Santa Real. Oh, the synopsis for this one is longer. What happens when a thrice divorced dad goes broke investing in a string of dippin dots kiosks? A holiday miracle. Mort Plum is Plum out of holiday cheer. He's unemployed, estranged from his Family. And his second wife just married former NBA all star Jamal Mashburn. But a chance cup of cocoa with a former UFC advertising executive turned a small town.
• 35:44
  Speaker A: Too many brand tie ins to be fake.
• 35:46
  Speaker B: Gives Mort an unexpected second chance at life and love. If his kids can't legally speak to him due to an ongoing undisclosed legal matter, maybe, just maybe, they'll talk to the coolest Santa Claus to ever hit the small town of Winchester Grove.
• 36:03
  Speaker A: Or it's a. It's a missed out fire.
• 36:05
  Speaker B: Yeah, except he's Santa.
• 36:06
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 36:07
  Speaker B: Why be bad when you can be dot, dot, dot, rad? Yeah, I'm gonna stick with rad Santa.
• 36:14
  Speaker A: This is real. There's too many brand tie ins for somebody to have made that up.
• 36:18
  Speaker B: I'm gonna continue to go opposite of you, and I'm gonna say that this is fake. And it is. It's fake. Fake movie.
• 36:27
  Speaker A: Okay, that makes sense. But it. Okay, it did seem too ridiculous. Here's the. I will say this, too. I was also. I didn't want to say this. I was gonna. Operating under the assumption that they might all be real. Like, because. No, I thought they might, like, that might be. The joke would be like, they're increasingly ridiculous, but they all are real.
• 36:48
  Speaker B: Yeah, that's fair. But no, this one is fake.
• 36:51
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 36:53
  Speaker B: Okay. Up next, we have Jingle Bell Bride. Wedding planner Jessica Perez travels to a remote town in Alaska to find a rare flower for a celebrity client and is charmed by the small town during Christmas as well as the handsome local helping her.
• 37:15
  Speaker A: Is that it?
• 37:16
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 37:16
  Speaker A: That's so generic that it. It could be real, but I think it's fake because it's. There's not a hook. I mean, I guess the flower thing is kind of a hook. What was the name of it again?
• 37:29
  Speaker B: The name of it is Jingle Bell Bride.
• 37:33
  Speaker A: I'm gonna say fake.
• 37:35
  Speaker B: I want to say real because I feel like this has the ingredients, like the small town and the handsome local.
• 37:49
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 37:51
  Speaker B: Are you making hash marks?
• 37:53
  Speaker A: Yes. I'm keeping score. But I. I agree that it has the ingredients, but it's so generic that I like. And there. I don't feel like there's enough of a hook in the synopsis. That's why I think it's fake, because it's trading on all the, like, classic cliches. But I. I need. I feel like it should have more like. So the other one, this last one was too specific and crazy. This one, I think is two. Nothing.
• 38:16
  Speaker B: I think it's fake, but the first one was also kind of nothing. No.
• 38:20
  Speaker A: It was a little more. It had, it had more details in it. I don't even remember what it was.
• 38:24
  Speaker B: This one is real.
• 38:26
  Speaker A: Oh, my God.
• 38:27
  Speaker B: Okay, jingle bell bride. What flower is she looking for in Alaska in winter?
• 38:35
  Speaker A: Yeah. I don't know.
• 38:36
  Speaker B: Something, something. I don't know what. Okay, next we have Kris Kringle License to mingle. It's the most wonderful time of the year because Santa's divorce is finally official. It's December 26th, and Kris Kringle is officially off the clock. Fun, flirty, and single for the first time in over 1700 years. Kringle is the most festive bachelor on Santa. Swipe. But the North Pole's jolliest resident meets his match when he encounters Ann T. Halladay, a former record executive turned city council zoning expert who informs Santa that his permits have lapsed. Forced to move his workshop next to Dorney park and Wild Water Kingdom in Allentown, Pennsylv Santa and his trusty elf Rusty adjust to theme park adjacent life, while Annie learns there's no such thing as a proper permit when it comes to love.
• 39:45
  Speaker A: Okay, I have my answer. What do you think?
• 39:47
  Speaker B: I think fake.
• 39:48
  Speaker A: Yeah. I think fake. I think one too many details.
• 39:50
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 39:51
  Speaker A: Two, and this is, you know, gendered. But I don't know if the target demographic wants to watch Santa Claus find love.
• 40:02
  Speaker B: I agree.
• 40:02
  Speaker A: So those are my reasons, especially because.
• 40:06
  Speaker B: I feel like divorced Santa Claus is just kind of sad.
• 40:09
  Speaker A: Yeah. Like, I don't know if that's kind of. These movies are targeted towards women generally and, like, middle aged women. And I don't know if, like, divorced Santa.
• 40:18
  Speaker B: Right. I don't get the fantasy that if Santa divorces his longtime wife and then.
• 40:24
  Speaker A: We'Re going is like the vibe in the Christmas season that wine moms want to watch.
• 40:29
  Speaker B: Okay. Watch it be real.
• 40:31
  Speaker A: It probably is.
• 40:33
  Speaker B: And it is fake.
• 40:35
  Speaker A: Okay. Thank goodness. But yeah, I, I, yeah, I don't, I just don't think it makes sense for the. For what these movies are targeting, audience wise.
• 40:48
  Speaker B: All right, up next, we have the Christmas doctor.
• 40:53
  Speaker A: Yeah, it's real. Calling it now.
• 40:57
  Speaker B: A week before Christmas, Dr. Alicia Wright is offered an assignment away from home. A mysterious man from her past journeys to find her before Christmas and brings with him a revelation that could change Alicia's life forever.
• 41:12
  Speaker A: Yeah, this is real. 100 real.
• 41:13
  Speaker B: Yeah, I would, I feel like I have figured out. I don't, I don't think whoever wrote this article did a very good job because the ones that have been fake so far have been, like, too verbose. Far too much detail. And the real ones have all had, like, very brief synopses. You're not doing a very good job matching the style here. And this one is real. Yeah.
• 41:38
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 41:42
  Speaker B: We can do however many more.
• 41:43
  Speaker A: How many are there?
• 41:44
  Speaker B: I think there's 17.
• 41:46
  Speaker A: How many have we done?
• 41:47
  Speaker B: Five.
• 41:47
  Speaker A: Okay, let's do. Let's do like 10.
• 41:50
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 41:50
  Speaker A: At least eight. Maybe 10. We'll see. We don't need to do 17.
• 41:53
  Speaker B: No. All right, up next, It's a Beautiful Life. Parentheses, O, O, O, O, close parentheses.
• 42:07
  Speaker A: Are those O's together or are they like O? Like O H, O, H, O, H, Yeah.
• 42:14
  Speaker B: Okay, four O's, one exclamation mark at the end.
• 42:18
  Speaker A: Wait, four O's. Oh, four of the word.
• 42:21
  Speaker B: Yeah, four of the word O, O, exclamation mark, close parentheses.
• 42:25
  Speaker A: Okay. It's a beautiful live. Oh, is that a song?
• 42:28
  Speaker B: I don't know. Anyways, or maybe it's supposed to be a play on. Ho, ho ho. I don't know.
• 42:33
  Speaker A: It's beautiful. Oh, oh, oh, sure. I. But I don't understand. Okay. Anyways.
• 42:40
  Speaker B: Okay. Frank Capra's beloved holiday classic, it's a Wonderful Life finally gets the shot for remake it so richly deserves. Starring the small screen dream team of Judd from Real world San Francisco and psych star Maggie Lawson, the jukebox musical rendition of this holiday staple combines the cinematic gravitas of It's a Wonderful Life with the audio jambalaya of Swedish techno music, maestro's ace of bass, George Bailey's existential crisis, and an endless stream of early 90s synth pop. Unite to answer the age old question, what's the true meaning of Christmas?
• 43:27
  Speaker A: Okay, so once again, if this follows the thing, it's got way too many specific details in it.
• 43:33
  Speaker B: This is just bizarre. I feel like we heard about it.
• 43:38
  Speaker A: Feel like it might be real. It feels like it could be a weird. I'm gonna go out on a limb. I know it goes against the thing. I'm gonna say this one's real.
• 43:48
  Speaker B: All right. I'm gonna say it's fake.
• 43:50
  Speaker A: You're probably right.
• 43:53
  Speaker B: It is fake.
• 43:54
  Speaker A: Okay, well then. This is ridiculous.
• 43:57
  Speaker B: I was. I was really hoping to be challenged.
• 43:59
  Speaker A: Yeah, come on. We're gonna go to like two more. But if they're all. If they follow this trend, it's pointless.
• 44:05
  Speaker B: And it's literally been like, back and forth.
• 44:08
  Speaker A: Yeah, back and forth. And like, very obvious. Very obvious based on the trend. Like. Anyways.
• 44:15
  Speaker B: All right, next one is a godwink Christmas colon, Second chance, first love. I don't know what godwink means.
• 44:29
  Speaker A: I don't either. Maybe it's a character.
• 44:33
  Speaker B: After 15 years, Pat moves from Hawaii with his two sons and through a series of coincidences or godwinks, ends up stuck in traffic next to his high school sweetheart Margie at Christmas.
• 44:49
  Speaker A: That's the whole thing?
• 44:50
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 44:50
  Speaker A: That's real.
• 44:50
  Speaker B: That's real. Absolutely. Fuck is a godwink?
• 44:53
  Speaker A: I've never heard that.
• 44:54
  Speaker B: I've never heard that. Yes, that is a real film.
• 45:00
  Speaker A: Come on, decider. Who wrote this? Give me the name of this.
• 45:04
  Speaker B: Let's do our last one and then I'll scroll back up to the top and we'll see who wrote this.
• 45:10
  Speaker A: Absolute garbage.
• 45:12
  Speaker B: Okay, and this last one is Jenna Elfman meets a gentle elf, comma man.
• 45:20
  Speaker A: That's the title of the movie.
• 45:22
  Speaker B: It's obviously fake.
• 45:23
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 45:25
  Speaker B: Former 1600 pen stealer and one time Royal Pains guest star Jenna Elfman is fed up with the holiday season living next to Santa's west coast distribution center. Has its ups. Free cocoa, lots of extra scotch tape floating around and downs early morning sing alongs. Rogue reindeer routinely disrupting traffic. But her issues with Santa's elves just reached their boiling point. During her annual EDTV cast reunion picnic, Elfman and a gaggle of grumpy elves become embroiled in an argument over the use of a barbecue pit that snowballs into a legal dispute. If the elves lose, Santa's west coast operations will be forced to move to Silicon Valley. Yuck. Sparks fly when Jenna discovers that her lawyer, Ernest L. Fenton, used to be an elf. What can these two coexist without strangling one another? Or perhaps falling in love?
• 46:28
  Speaker A: Fake.
• 46:29
  Speaker B: Yeah, fake. Yes, fake.
• 46:32
  Speaker A: Okay, I need you to scroll and.
• 46:33
  Speaker B: Okay, are any of the.
• 46:35
  Speaker A: Well, that I was gonna say. Or any of the remaining ones does literally follow that formula back and forth. Cuz it's the worst article I've ever read.
• 46:43
  Speaker B: The next.
• 46:44
  Speaker A: Or like the worst of this kind of thing I've ever seen.
• 46:46
  Speaker B: Real. Fake. Real. Fake. Okay, real.
• 47:00
  Speaker A: Are they similarly, like lengthed? Like, you know what I mean, where the real ones are shorter and the fake ones are like overly long and complicated?
• 47:07
  Speaker B: Real. Fake. This is terrible.
• 47:12
  Speaker A: This is ridiculous.
• 47:13
  Speaker B: And the last one is fake.
• 47:17
  Speaker A: Okay, so two fakes in a row, two fakes. Are they both very convoluted nonsense? The two final fake ones.
• 47:24
  Speaker B: No, the last one has a short synopsis. Maybe somebody else wrote that one. The last two fake ones have really short synopses.
• 47:37
  Speaker A: What you needed to do is you either have to write short ones for all of them. Or you have to write long ones. And what you should do is write long ones because that's more fun. Because then what you do. But here's what happened. Here's what happened. They copy pasted the IMDb synopsis for all the real ones. And then for all the fake ones, they did a creative writing exercise for fun and then they just put it on there. But what they would have needed to do is known enough about the real ones to write ridiculous. Because you could write ridiculous summaries of the real ones. You would just have to have watched them. And this person clearly did not watch them. They just copy pasted.
• 48:17
  Speaker B: Well, this was written by Josh Sorakash. Or a cat. I don't know.
• 48:25
  Speaker A: Okay, well, Josh, get it together.
• 48:29
  Speaker B: Josh is a senior writer at Decider.
• 48:32
  Speaker A: That's a churned out piece of garbage. Which, to be fair, I think Decider, basically all their stuff might be just churned out garbage. But.
• 48:39
  Speaker B: And I still writing there because his latest Decider article went out at 4pm Eastern time today.
• 48:49
  Speaker A: Great. So might not even be a real person.
• 48:52
  Speaker B: Might not.
• 48:52
  Speaker A: Because a lot of these are like content mills that just.
• 48:55
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
• 48:56
  Speaker A: So cool.
• 48:57
  Speaker B: Thanks, Josh. Well, that was not what I wanted.
• 49:01
  Speaker A: Not what we were looking for, but fine. All right. That was that.
• 49:06
  Speaker B: I should have sent that to a friend and had somebody screen that.
• 49:10
  Speaker A: Yeah, it's. It's fine. You got. I mean, you got us, you know, it's.
• 49:14
  Speaker B: We took a chance.
• 49:15
  Speaker A: Yeah. Well, hope you enjoyed sitting through that nonsense. But now we're gonna preview the Christmas shoes. The book we wish you a merry Christmas. Sometimes the smallest of miracles can change our lives. And for one man, we didn't think you were coming. And a boy. I used to have this pair of dancing shoes.
• 49:44
  Speaker B: Every time I put them on, I just felt so special.
• 49:49
  Speaker A: A special pair of shoes will lead their paths to cross. You would have really liked the show.
• 49:57
  Speaker B: I wish they were there.
• 49:59
  Speaker A: It will be next time. You're $5.50 short. Come back after New Year's. We'll probably be giving them away.
• 50:09
  Speaker B: The Christmas shoes is a 2001 novel. More of a novella really. It's only 132 pages. It's not very long. By American author Donna Van Leer. There are zero book facts anywhere about this. So this. This is all over the place. I hope you're ready.
• 50:31
  Speaker A: Oh, yeah. Wait till we get to the movie.
• 50:34
  Speaker B: Donna Van Lear's Goodreads profile describes her thusly. Donna is a New York Times and USA Today best selling authority. She's an In Demand conference speaker and gifted teacher and has 14 published books, including four that have been adapted into movies. And I suspect Donna may have written this herself.
• 50:59
  Speaker A: I think that would be.
• 51:00
  Speaker B: I also perused her website, which has not been updated since 2014 and is a little bit delightful in its, like, Internet archaicness. Those other three books that have been adapted into movies do include the Christmas Blessing and the Christmas Hope, both of which are part of the Christmas Shoes cinematic universe.
• 51:24
  Speaker A: Indeed they are.
• 51:26
  Speaker B: She also. It says on her website that she also wrote two movies. Like wrote the script, I guess unrelated to the Christmas Shoes, but in a similar vein. I'm sure they were also like Hallmark Christmas movie movies.
• 51:41
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 51:42
  Speaker B: The Christmas Shoes itself. The book is a novelization of a song. So ridiculous. Novelization of a song released in 2000 by contemporary Christian vocal group New Song.
• 51:59
  Speaker A: Yep.
• 51:59
  Speaker B: And I regret to say that Our Home City is responsible. It was written by New Song Group members Eddie Carswell and Leonard Alstrom and St. Louis syndicated radio personality Isaiah D.C. daniel of Stephen D.C. great. The song was released as a bonus track on their 2000 album Sheltering Tree at the urging of DC he really wanted this to happen. Who also co produced the song. So D.C. of Steven D.C. is like, solely responsible. That's so interesting for this song.
• 52:43
  Speaker A: I wonder how that happened because obviously he's not part of the group.
• 52:49
  Speaker B: Yeah. I don't know.
• 52:50
  Speaker A: New Song has existed since, like the 80s. They're from Valdosta, Georgia. They started at Morningside Baptist Church. I'm on their Wikipedia page in Valdosta, Georgia. And they don't. They're like, he's not part of the band or anything. So he just showed up and was like. Or maybe he was on. I don't. I remember. So Stephen D.C. i remember that name.
• 53:12
  Speaker B: Yeah, the name is familiar. I couldn't tell you a single thing about them. About them.
• 53:17
  Speaker A: I think they might have been a morning show.
• 53:19
  Speaker B: I like. I remember hearing, like, the name.
• 53:22
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 53:23
  Speaker B: Because they were on the radio when we were like, kids.
• 53:25
  Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. I know nothing about that, though. But I do remember Stephen D.C. but I'm so interested to know how a syndicated radio personality got involved in helping write a Christian.
• 53:37
  Speaker B: Well, he must have. He must have worked at like, Benson Records in some capacity.
• 53:42
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 53:43
  Speaker B: Which is the, like, the label that this was released because it said that. Said he co produced it.
• 53:48
  Speaker A: Right.
• 53:49
  Speaker B: So I like. I don't know how. I guess he just. I don't know. I don't know.
• 53:55
  Speaker A: Very strange.
• 53:56
  Speaker B: I don't know. The song peaked at number 31 on the Billboard Hot Country Songs chart. Spent one week at number one on the Adult contemporary.
• 54:09
  Speaker A: Come on, Adult contemporary.
• 54:10
  Speaker B: Get your stuff together and hit number.
• 54:13
  Speaker A: You're telling me Kenny G didn't have an album out that. That freaking week?
• 54:18
  Speaker B: And it hit number 42 on the Hot 100 chart.
• 54:22
  Speaker A: 42 on the Hot 100? That's absurd.
• 54:25
  Speaker B: I like to think that a lot of these were like, hate listens.
• 54:29
  Speaker A: That's crazy.
• 54:31
  Speaker B: Speaking of which, to put it kindly, the Christmas Shoes is a polarizing song. It has appeared on numerous worst Christmas songs lists. It has been described as poverty porn, which I agree with. It is frequently criticized for, quote, exploiting poverty to generate a sentimental message and for the narrator's self congratulatory tone after he gives the boy money. As well as its, quote, malevolent portrayal of a God.
• 55:03
  Speaker A: So, so inaccurate. If you've read the Bible.
• 55:07
  Speaker B: A malevolent portrayal of a God who inflicts needless suffering on others to teach some jerk the true meaning of Christmas.
• 55:14
  Speaker A: Yeah, okay, so they nailed the biblic.
• 55:17
  Speaker B: Oh God.
• 55:18
  Speaker A: But.
• 55:20
  Speaker B: But also, like, true. That is what happens in the song. And it's like, it's not a fun Christmas song.
• 55:27
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 55:27
  Speaker B: Despite all that, it is a staple of radio stations during the Christmas season and you're almost guaranteed to hear it at least once, at which point you immediately turn off the radio. I hate this song the way that I breathe air effortlessly and naturally. And I am so excited to see if either the book or the movie answers any of the many questions I have about the scenario presented in the song. The first of which is what? And the second of which is why?
• 55:59
  Speaker A: Continuing forward from there, we shall see. From what I've heard, the movie is on par with the song. Speaking of the movie, let's learn a little bit. And boy do I mean a little bit about the Christmas shoes of the film. This Christmas, two families will test their faith in themselves and discover the magic that is the Christmas shoes. And I really don't know if I should deign to call it a film, if I'm being honest. It is a 2002 TV movie directed by Andy Woak, who is primarily a TV director, directed a bunch of episodes of random shows, including an episode of the Sopranos, the TV show Defiance, Manifest, Gossip Girl, Ugly Betty, countless other like NYPD Blue. Mostly like two or three episodes at most. Some of them like Sopranos, like one episode, but just has worked on like 100 TV shows.
• 57:04
  Speaker B: How do you get that job being just like, you know, people Guy who directs one episode of Everything.
• 57:11
  Speaker A: Yeah, I honestly don't know. I think he started in theater or something is what I saw. I think I saw that he was like a stage director that then got into tv. I. I don't know. I didn't care, to be honest.
• 57:24
  Speaker B: Fair enough.
• 57:25
  Speaker A: The Sopranos and some of those other shows are good shows, but, like, whatever. He wasn't like, the mind behind them. He directed one episode. Directing one episode of a tv. I could direct one episode of Ugly Betty. Like, whatever. Be fine. It was written by Wesley Bishop, who wrote. If you go to Wesley Bishop's IMDb page and go through his writing credits, it is just Hallmark Christmas movie after Hallmark Christmas movie. It's just nothing but those. That. That movie poster with one person in a green sweater, one person in a red sweater, usually a man and a woman. And yeah, Wesley.
• 58:06
  Speaker B: Blink twice if you need help.
• 58:08
  Speaker A: Wesley wrote Christmas Town, the Christmas Note, the Christmas Secret, the Christmas Hope, the Christmas Blessing, and a million other of these kind of movies. But two of those, I think, are the sequels to this. Right? He wrote both of the sequels. What was the ones you said were the.
• 58:24
  Speaker B: The Christmas Hope was one of them, and the other one was the Christmas. The Christmas Blessing.
• 58:31
  Speaker A: He wrote both of the. The sequels to this. Which.
• 58:34
  Speaker B: Perfect.
• 58:35
  Speaker A: Which do take place in the. Because this first movie, I think, was a fairly successful ratings hit in terms of, like, how many people watched it. So CBS was like, let's do it. The film stars Rob Lowe, Kimberly Williams, Max Moro, Maria Delmar, Hugh Thompson, Dorian Harewood, Shirley Douglas, Amber Marshall, Jerry Mee Ackerman and John Dunsworth. The John Dunsworth one cracks me up. For people who don't know John Dunsworth is Mr. Leahy from the trailer park Boy. The drunk trailer park. Park, like manager or whatever. Or he's. Yeah, that is. He. That's John Dunsworth. It's insane to me that he's in this movie, but it's very funny. And I say is. He passed away a few years ago. The film does not have a Rotten Tomatoes score because it was not released theatrically, among other things, does not have a Metacritic score, but it has a 6.6 out of 10 on IMDb with like 3,000 reviews.
• 59:32
  Speaker B: That feels high.
• 59:33
  Speaker A: Yeah. It was originally released on cbs, as I mentioned earlier. So there is no box office. And as I said, there's no box office, but it was at least critical or not critically ratings, successfully. Ratings wise enough that they made two more.
• 59:50
  Speaker B: Right.
• 59:51
  Speaker A: And. And I believe they both also aired on CBS because I Know that at least the second one has Rob Lowe in it. At least in, like, a cameo role. He's listed down the credits, but I clicked on it just to see. So. So, as I said, very few notes. There are literally no production notes of any sort whatsoever on Wikipedia or anywhere else that I could find. Because this isn't a real movie. Like, I Googled for, like 20 minutes, I went to ChatGPT and was like, do you know anything about the movie?
• 1:00:22
  Speaker B: I mean, that's why my segment was mostly about the song.
• 1:00:25
  Speaker A: Yeah, do you know anything about the movie the Christmas Shoes? And it was like, here's the cast list. And I'm like, great. Because that's the only thing I use ChatGPT for, is like a slightly more advanced Google search sometimes. And it had nothing. I could find nothing. So I have no idea of anything about this movie. But on IMDb, there were three trivia facts, and I have to read this one because it's utterly insane and I think a serial killer wrote it, so I have to read it. This is on the IMDb trivia for the film the Christmas Shoes. In the song, the boy's clothes were referred to as worn and old. By the way, I'm reading this verbatim from IMDb. In the song, the boy's clothes were referred to as worn and old. The boy himself was also described as dirty. In the movie, Nathan's clothes were in great condition. Nathan had a very clean body. End quote. Local IMDb trivia fact from your local pedophile. Great, Fantastic. Amazing.
• 1:01:38
  Speaker B: It's so weird, too, to be like, this kid wasn't poor enough.
• 1:01:46
  Speaker A: Yep. It's insane. I don't know. I saw. That was like. The other two trivia facts were, like, very boring. Like, this is based on a song and, like, something else. And then that one, I was like, what is this trivia fact? He has a very boring.
• 1:01:59
  Speaker B: That's a thing that, like, anybody can put it on IMDb.
• 1:02:02
  Speaker A: Yes, anybody can add. And this I will say. I will state this one had more down votes than up votes. On the trivia, People were like, I do not like this fact. It had like four upvotes and, like 12 down votes or whatever.
• 1:02:18
  Speaker B: So, like, the people have spoken.
• 1:02:21
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:02:23
  Speaker B: Oh, God.
• 1:02:24
  Speaker A: Anyways, as always, you can do us a favor by heading over to Facebook, Instagram thread, Reds, Goodreads, any of those places. Blue Sky. Check us out. We would love to interact with you and hear what you have to say about all the stuff we review. You can also review us by heading over to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you listen, drop us five star rating, write us a review. And if you really want to support us, head over to patreon.com thisfilmislit and get access to bonus content and other good stuff. Katie, where can people watch the Christmas shoes?
• 1:02:52
  Speaker B: You could try your local library or video rental store.
• 1:02:56
  Speaker A: I feel like that's a low probability.
• 1:02:58
  Speaker B: I feel like it's a low probability. I don't know if this got any kind of home release.
• 1:03:04
  Speaker A: Maybe, maybe, but probably not because it was a TV movie.
• 1:03:06
  Speaker B: It was a TV movie, but it was also like popular enough and it was also. It was the early 2000s, so we.
• 1:03:12
  Speaker A: Were still like doing a lot more.
• 1:03:14
  Speaker B: Doing a lot more physical media at that time. So like it's possible you could try. Other than that, the only place that this is available to stream with a subscription is through AMC plus.
• 1:03:27
  Speaker A: That's wild.
• 1:03:27
  Speaker B: Which you can access through a lot of different.
• 1:03:30
  Speaker A: Does CBS have a streaming service? Isn't Paramount plus their stream? I think Paramount plus.
• 1:03:35
  Speaker B: I don't know. Off the top of my head, this is what I found.
• 1:03:38
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 1:03:40
  Speaker B: The good news is that AMC does offer a seven day free trial. So I think that's what we'll be doing.
• 1:03:49
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 1:03:50
  Speaker B: And then when I cancel that seven day free trial, I will also post on all of our social media pages a reminder, please cancel to any of you to cancel your free AMC plush trial.
• 1:04:06
  Speaker A: Also, I not ashamed to say it this time, just pirate this.
• 1:04:11
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 1:04:11
  Speaker A: Find of an illegal version of this.
• 1:04:13
  Speaker B: I thought I had found a copy on YouTube and then it was not actually the movie. I was very disappointed. But maybe somebody who's better than that at that than I am could probably find one.
• 1:04:23
  Speaker A: Also on Philo Philo you can get a free trial of the service. Philo Philo. I don't know what that is.
• 1:04:30
  Speaker B: I don't know what that is. There are so many of those now. I don't even know.
• 1:04:33
  Speaker A: But it looks like they are. It looks like it's on there and then you can do a free trial of that. So maybe that would be another way to watch it. But yeah, if you can find a pirated version of this.
• 1:04:46
  Speaker B: Yeah, pirate the ship, sail the high seas.
• 1:04:49
  Speaker A: Absolutely. Anyways, that's gonna do it for this prequel episode. I am very excited to watch this monstrosity. The only thing I know about it is that people make fun of it for being a terrible movie. And truly not only a bad movie, but just a horrendously a movie with a horrible message.
• 1:05:13
  Speaker B: I haven't watched any trailers or anything.
• 1:05:15
  Speaker A: I haven't either.
• 1:05:16
  Speaker B: But I did go and try to find some, like, screen caps to use for social media.
• 1:05:23
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 1:05:25
  Speaker B: Which were very hard to find. Most of them are not good quality. But also the shoes. The titular Christmas shoes. Ugly. Of course they are ugly. Uggo. Gross. Come back in one week.
• 1:05:44
  Speaker A: Yeah, come back in one week. We're gonna. We're just going to spend an hour dunking on this awful movie, most likely. And.
• 1:05:50
  Speaker B: And the book and song. Yes.
• 1:05:53
  Speaker A: That will be your Christmas entertainment. So prepare for that. Can't wait until that time. Guys. Gals. Not B pals. Everybody else keep reading books, watching movies.
• 1:06:02
  Speaker B: And keep being awesome.