Latest / Financial Planner Life Podcast / How to set up your own financial planning business | Calum Scott

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How to set up your own financial planning business | Calum Scott · Financial Planner Life Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: And today's guest on the Financial Plan Alive podcast is the first of 2024.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's Callum Scott from Scotland, and it's a Libertast IFA.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: He set this firm up with two of his ex-colleagues from Prudential three years ago.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't an easy start, and we go into detail about what it's like running your own IFA business as an appointed representative.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: We go into the past to discover why working at Prudential and perhaps being a life protection seller or an account manager is an amazing way to gain that vital experience to become the best financial planner in the future.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: We break down the client journey as well.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: I probe him about how he delivers fact finds, the first meeting, and how he converts those into second.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: We talk about the purpose of running a financial planning business, what the future holds for him, his business partners, and Libertas.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: I hope you enjoy it.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: Callum, thank you so much for joining me today on the Financial Planner Life podcast.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: First off, happy new year, you're the first podcast of 2024.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: Happy New Year, mate.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and to you, Sam, as well.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um pleasure.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: Pleasures to be on here.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm looking forward to our chat today.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: We've we've had a few pre-chats, and I found it really easy to talk to you.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I really like talking about your experience, the transition from being employed now to running your own business, Libertas Financial Management.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: So really, really keen to hear about your journey, why you did things the way you did, the reality versus expectation.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: And let's inspire those listeners who are thinking, I wouldn't mind setting up my own business, or even thinking, I want to join the financial planning profession.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: And your story is going to inspire them.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: I'll tell you what, let's let's kick things off straight away, okay?
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: Just tell us about your financial planning career journey.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: When did you start and where are you now?
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: We'll go right back to the start, Sam.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: So I had originally had a football scholarship at the University of Stirling, where I studied sporties and marketing.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: Now, probably like a lot of graduates, I came out of university thinking, what am I going to do here?
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I soon realized that probably sports, although I was very athletic, it wasn't really a career that I could see myself going down unless it was in a professional capacity.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: So I felt actually I really like the analytical side of what sports had to offer, the number side of things.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: So, like a lot of probably your guests, I stumbled across financial services.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: You know, um I started working with a friend's uh dad in the insurance industry where it was kind of advising clients on life, insurance, critical illness, uh, personal protection plans, etc.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I got a real passion, I got a real kick for meeting people in a face-to-face capacity.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: So that relationship building, um, I got a real, real enjoyment from that.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: It was a real kick for me.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: The technical side of things, protection I'd never done before, but it's something that you could obviously learn, you could pick up quite quickly.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: But the relationship side of things seemed to be a kind of key strength of the mind.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I thought, I'm gonna roll with this and see where it kind of takes me.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: Now, the slight downside of the role itself was that one week you could make quite a bit of money, the next week you might not make anything.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: It was all commission-based.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: So at a point in time where I'd graduated university, I was looking to get myself onto the property ladder.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: I felt actually and I needed a little bit more security.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: And at that point, I had started with uh the prudential.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: Uh big massive life company, they have a huge uh office up in Stirling, which is kind of that's kind of closed down at the moment, and then they've got the some more offices uh based over Scotland.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: But at the time it was a place called Craig Forth.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: So I kind of stumbled across financial services in that sense.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then I started working in a processing department, a more administration role in their bond department.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: And from there, really, you know, the numbers, the assets, etc.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: etc., it kind of gripped me, and I felt this is it, this is the industry that I want to be in.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I was 22 at the time, and I've never looked back, you know, I've it's just been full state of my head, always looked forward since since then.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: So as I started in in financial services with the with the PRU, I kind of held various roles from an administrator administration perspective, then moved into more sales-based roles, and kind of at that point started to look at kind of my financial exams.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: I got my diploma within kind of 12 months uh done a charter exam, AF7 for pension transfers.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: And the account management role was exactly where I wanted to be at that specific time.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: It offered me so many opportunities to kind of hone my skills, kind of master my craft, if you like, working with IFAs, and then you know, kind of being able to kind of build up, if you like, on the side uh a nest egg that kind of got us started in life myself and my partner, you know, got us on on you know the the the big uh bigger house, you know, that we're what we're in from a little flat.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: So that was fantastic.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, with all good things, they kind of probably come to an end.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I was looking for my next sort of experience, my next challenge, and I wanted to kind of go in a face-to-face capacity.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I remembered the days that I had worked, if you like, uh with my friend's dad in the insurance industry and the face-to-face capacity with clients.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: I felt the next step for me is financial advice.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: And at that point, I decided to move into what was called their uh financial advice arm at the time, prudential financial planning.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and a great experience, to be fair, working with them.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, that it was kind of where I kind of cut my teeth as an advisor, if you like.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you were very institutionalized in terms of the processes, were very strong, uh, you know, you were well trained, you know, and you a lot of the skills that we'd used previously, uh roles in the PRU, they were all transferable.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: You know, at the difference being now instead of sitting in front of an IFA speaking about the proposition that PRU had to offer, you were speaking to clients about their financial planning and their objectives and their needs.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: And again, it was something that that I got a great kick from.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I knew at that point being a financial advisor and a planner was what I would do for the rest of my career.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so that's really kind of my, if you like, journey in terms of financial services from where it started uh to kind of where to the point right before we kind of started Libertast.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: So probably like many people are experiencing at the moment, we fell foul of COVID, uh the C word, and you we were we were made redundant.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: So the PRU had made the decision to make all advisors in the workforce kind of redundant, but re-employ them on a self-employed basis, if you like.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: So at the time, my two business partners and I, Jamie Oakenval and Andrew Scotland, we had worked together at the PRU from the early days, from the days that we started our diploma.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: So we had a fantastic working relationship and a personal relationship as well.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: And we'd always toyed with the idea and joked at the time, sitting down for lunch, we'll run alone, our own independent financial advice firm one day.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, there was a seriousness behind that.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we we knew one day that that would kind of that would come true.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: And when COVID came about, we seen this opportunity to kind of to move to move on.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: Because whilst the PRU was great in terms of the what it gave us, that they gave us the platform to kind of introduce ourselves to the advice world, we knew it had a ceiling for us in terms of what we wanted to try and achieve for our business moving forward, and and that was kind of a big thing.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: So that was when Libertas Financial Management was born, really, to be fair.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: And we've really tried to embody you know a culture, um, an ideology in terms of what we want the business to be, and it and it rings true through the name of the business, Libertas.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, it was we were really specific about choosing that name because it effectively translates into Latin freedom and independence, and that's why we're independent financial advisors.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: Where we were, we were restricted.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: So we wanted that to be a big part of our our identity.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and we've been in business for three years now, and you know, we've gone from strength to strength, and it continues to grow and grow, and you know, we look to try and exceed expectations, you know, year on year, effectively.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: So fantastic.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: What a great overview! Probably one of the best I've actually had there.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: I can see why you're probably very good sitting in front of clients.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: You're explaining things very like a good story that was.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: I was I was gripped.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: It was it was very, very interesting.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: And what I can pick apart from that is that in your early stages of getting into the world of work, one of the things you very quickly developed was this a this recognition and awareness that you wanted to work with clients on a face-to-face basis, that you enjoyed relationship building.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_01: I can see that in your personality that you're good at it.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: So that's a really interesting area.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: How long were you in that?
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: So that early stage, and you were doing the like the life protection stuff, working for your dad's, uh, so your friend's dad's business.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: How long?
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's a, you know, let's not be around the bush.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of people trying to get into the financial advice profession.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: They're struggling to get in, but there are other options.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: You can be a mortgage advisor, you can be a protection advisor, and you can cut your teeth in that capacity, and you can earn some really, really good money in those, in those, in those roles.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, what do you think?
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think somebody should maybe step into let's say somebody's coming from a different career, they've got no experience of working in an FS.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think they should step into a role like life protection, mortgage advice before they go into financial planning?
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think that's a good idea?
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think it's obviously personal preference in terms of you, you know, your level of confidence, to be fair.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: If I was looking back now, then would I would I kind of have gone down the similar sort of route?
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: I probably would, if I'm being honest.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: I would probably, my advice would be to kind of go down the route of protection and mortgage.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: And that's no disrespect to you know protection and mortgage advisors, but you know, the the the the universe of being an a financial advisor with the pension legislation, investments, inheritance tax, accession plan, etc.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: etc., it is uh very, very complex, and there's a lot to kind of pick up with the mortgage and protection side of things.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: You kind of, I suppose, if you like, ease yourself in, it is a little bit easier to kind of pick that up and in that respect.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, very, very demanding role because we work with kind of mortgage advisors, we know how busy they are, um, but but by no means uh a disrespect to that kind of level of of what the services that they offer.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: But I think is a very good starting point for a lot of people if they wanted to get into financial services, find out first and foremost is this client-facing environment, is that is this what we're looking for?
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: And if you've got a real passion for it, maybe it has a shelf life for you, the mortgage and the protection side of things, and then you think to yourself, where does my next challenge lie?
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, it's maybe in the the advice world, you know, we're dealing with clients with regards to their finances, uh investments, pension, retirement planning, etc.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: But I think if you go first in, sometimes it's very difficult once you've had that experience, you you maybe have a poor experience of firsthand.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: It could be difficult then to kind of re you know, burst back into that arena if that makes sense.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think kind of easing yourself in.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: I I would probably personally, I would probably go for that if I was looking back on my time.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: When you look back on that though as well, do you think having the years, especially working at Prudential and in account in an account management role where you were essentially selling your services and products to IFAs to make sure that they use prudential products, right?
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that early part of your career where it was geared around relationship building, face-to-face contact sales, yeah.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: So do you think those are hugely important before you become a financial planner?
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: Or do you think you could learn that on the job?
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: Because you know, I get approached by people from all different types of backgrounds.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: You could have somebody working in data management or something, and then all of a sudden now wants to become a financial planner.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I look back over their career history and I don't think they've ever worked in a capacity where they are actually having to um sell something or to sell their services or to explain um, you know, relationship building side.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think like that's one of the most important transferable skill sets that you would need to become a successful financial planner?
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: Without a shadow of a doubt, yeah.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: I I would personally, Sam, I would go to say that if I'm saying that your ability to hold a conversation with a client to be, you know, likable, trust is probably the biggest thing I would say that financial planner has to gain from a client and for them to feel comfortable with you.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that the technical aspect's obviously extremely important, but it's not worth an awful lot if the client can't understand what you're trying to explain to them, whether it be in a suitability report or can in a face-to-face meeting.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I think those relationship building skills are absolutely fundamental and key to being a good financial planner.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: The technical aspect, you know, that that goes without saying you need that, you need a diploma.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, there may well be the you may well need to be chartered at some point in the future to be given to be able to give advice.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: But I think you could be the most technical financial planner in the world, but not necessarily be a good financial planner depending on the client that's sitting in front of you, if that makes sense, if you don't have good relationship building skills, you don't like have likability, you don't have, you can't build up someone's trust, etc.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that's absolutely fundamental.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: So to answer that question, absolutely somebody coming from a different environment background that's had that kind of face-to-face, maybe sales aspect uh that are good with people, I think that is just as important as having the technical knowledge, because that is something that you will learn over time through the exams, obviously.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: I think learning conduct a meeting, get people to buy into who you are as a person, etc., that is over time and a long period of time as well, I think.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: I like that.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: I know the training at Prudential is exceptional.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: I used to recruit for Prudential.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, we were like one of their number one recruiters.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: So I remember everything that happened when they went from employee to self-employed.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: It killed our relationship, basically.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but what Prudential did very well was they trained people very well, you know.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's one of the things that's lacking now.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, you know, all the major banks not hiring financial advisors anymore.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_01: And that's where a lot of people cut their teeth.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: That's where a lot of people had the ability to sit down with clients, albeit in a very restricted model, but it was about productivity, wasn't it?
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: It was about activity.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: So it was about the more people you saw, the more people you sat down with, the more you understood people.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the transition from being in an environment where often you're spoon-fed leads in companies like Prudential.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: I know you have to go out there and work for it and find them all of that.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_01: But we're seeing that already where MG have bought Prudential's client book, and now MG are passing on the clients from Prudential into the hands of MNG new advisors, you know, which is fantastic for new advisors and part of their academy um process is to be able to give leads to people.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: However, stepping away from that environment, setting up what you have done now, your own IFA business.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: How different is that?
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: You know, let's let's talk about that because you had a fair few years of working restricted, prudential, you were successful, you had the opportunity to go self-employed there, but instead you came together with two of your friends and said, let's set our own business up.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: Let's have a look at that.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: What's the fundamental difference between the two?
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: I think nowadays, Sam, with being independent, we fish in a different pond.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: And that again, that's no disrespect to the advisors that find themselves in the MG as the advice partnership model.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but you're right, it's restricted and there's a there is a ceiling, you know, in terms of the needs and objectives of certain types of clients.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: I find myself working there, you know, potentially in a position where actually I can't help this client.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not going to be driven by sales and numbers to shoehorn a client into something which that doesn't fit them.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: I feel that as being independent and such a big reason why we're independent is that we're led by the client at all times.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: They're ejectors, lead us to the financial plan and the product that will allow them to get them to where they want to be, not the other way about.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not saying that in all instances that is the case with the restricted advice models, because obviously they do work, otherwise, the regulator wouldn't allow them to continue.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: But for us, we have a firm belief that that is absolutely the right way to gather better kind of client outcomes, if you like, you know, to get us to our clients where they want and need to be.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: So the biggest change is that you're absolutely right.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's numbers, numbers, numbers in that environment.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas what I'd probably say in the IFA world that we're working at the moment, where everything that we do is organic, you know, we don't we don't buy in loads of leads.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: Uh we, you know, everything that we do from a social media perspective, the advertisement, the marketing, it's all done within the business and it's all done with a purpose and a reason behind it.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: So when we usually get leads into the office, they're there are far better quality.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: The numbers aren't as many, there's no doubt about that.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: We're not a massive market machine, but the quality that we get in is far superior to what we had worked with before.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: And again, no disrespect to those clients that have maybe got 30 or 40, 50,000 pounds in their pot, but we're kind of dealing with clients that have got, you know, um north of 200,000, 100, 250,000, etc., etc.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, it's a it's a it's a different sort of world that we are now working within, if you like, um, which has been what we wanted, if if that makes sense, with again, without being disrespectful to those other clients.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: Was that a challenge at first?
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: The transition from coming from like a very large prudential company with the backing of a brand name, clients that you could work with that were passed on to you, you knew the product, you knew the business, there was comfort in what you knew.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: Stepping across into the IFA world, setting up your own business that is directly authorized as well.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: Is it directly authorized?
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: Uh appointed representative for a directly authorized firm.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: So you're AR of a directly authorized firm.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: So regardless, you're IFA, right?
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: So going into that world, running your own business, whether you're directly authorized or an AR, you are running your own business.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's your name above the door, isn't it?
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: Making that transition across and going into that IFA world, how did you approach it?
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: So if someone's sitting there at the moment and they're thinking they want to do that, they want to go self-employed, or even they want to not just go self-employed under a firm, they actually want their name above the door.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: What's the approach?
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: What did year one actually look like to you?
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: How did you plan it?
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: What did year one look like in respect of the reality versus expectation?
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: That's a great question, Sam, and I've got a great answer to that.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: Because our journey from transitioning from restricted advisors to setting up Libertas Financial Management as IFAs was one that we did not expect.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: So we didn't actually get authorized for the first 10 months.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: So from the point that we'd left to the point that we would we were actually in a position to offer advice out to clients, it was just it was almost closer to 11 months.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: So we had a 11-month period of limbo whereby we couldn't seek, advise clients, speak to clients, we couldn't do anything.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: We had no remuneration coming in, the business wasn't profitable.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: So that was a real challenge.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: But what we did do before we kind of moved into the arena of libertask financial management, but before it was born, we planned.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: We said what would happen in this scenario that we didn't have any income for the first 12 months.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: We were lucky that it was only 11 months by the time that we could start earning.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: But we planned for that.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, that's what our redundancy package had effectively paid for.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: Don't get me wrong, it would have been ideal, for example, if we had you know started off the next thing in months and we still had that next redundancy payment that could have gone to a few holidays, maybe doing something up the house.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: But the reality was that that was money that we had to pay the mortgage with, we had to kind of live off, if that makes sense.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: But that time period actually looking back on it now, it was actually it could have been a blessing in disguise because in that time period, that 11-month period, we built the business.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we spent so much time getting the website right, you know, the the descriptions in terms of the services that we offer their client-facing brochures, getting ourselves up to speed with being independent financial advisors without seeing the clients.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: So the role of a financial advisor, whether you're restricted or whether you're you know independent in terms of client-facing, it's largely the same.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you're still trying to help clients achieve their objectives.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: You know, those skills don't just leave you overnight.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: What we then had to learn was how do you become an IFA from a research perspective and all the different facets that come along with that.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: And that was something that we had to learn.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: But we had a time period where we could do that.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and our network were great, and and they allowed us to shadow a lot of IFAs.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: We asked a lot of questions and we, you know, molded, if you like, in terms of what we would like to be as IFAs, and took little bits and pieces from the other kind of IFAs that we kind of spoke with, and then molded it into this is kind of what we would like.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: So kind of stealing the ideas of what worked well with these businesses and trying to mold them into kind of what we what we would like.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: And that's something that we've kind of continued to develop.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: So I think having a plan of action is so important.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: If you want to make that move from you know, employed to self-employed, is have a clear plan of what it is that you would like to do, what it is you would like to achieve, and when you would like to achieve it.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: So the smart rules really and make sure things that they're time-specific, they're measurable, you can get a clear objective of when you're going to achieve these objectives effectively.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: I would always have a backup plan.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: You know, what happens if this doesn't work well?
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: For us, we had no choice.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: We had three young families, our boys are six months apart.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so for us, that was almost like the fear, fear of failure was our driving kind of force, if you like, in terms of what we needed to do.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: So we we didn't have an option.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then have a in terms of you know having some financial backing.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: So for us, the redundancy payment was there, that might not be for everybody, but I would kind of hasten to say, earnest side of caution, somewhere between six and twelve months of of annual outgoings, because you won't necessarily turn a profit in the first year as we can experienced.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: And even in the second year, yes, we turned a profit enough for us to get by and take a salary from, but by no means where we want to be in the bigger picture.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: And we're still not there.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we're three years in and we're still not quite where we want to be, but this is a process uh and and we have to kind of go along with this journey, if you like.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: Brilliant.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: In respect to that first year, it's kind of almost a blessing, isn't it?
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: That the reins were put on you and that you were slowed, slowed down.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: Because imagine if you had to hit the floor running, go out and win clients, understand how to work as an IFA, build the brand, build the literature, get the website, get the branding right, get the message right.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: That's a lot of work and a lot of energy and a lot of time goes into that.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: I know that.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: I I know that from building out, you know, the financial plan of life from the side of my desk, running a recruitment company.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's it's a journey building a brand, um, marketing.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: These are full time jobs.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: And when you've never done it before, you are all of a sudden wearing multiple hats.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: So having that kind of it at the time, it It would have been scary.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: It the fear would have been like, oh my God, or you know, how much longer is this going to be until we actually start bringing in some income?
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: But it gave you the breathing space.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: And if you look back with hindsight, it was probably a good thing.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: Now, if somebody is going to go start their own financial advice business, right?
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: And they're thinking, how do I start?
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: Where should I start?
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: Because often people get drawn into I've got to have a marketing presence, I've got to be on social media, I've got to have all the right literature.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: My website's got to be up and running.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: You've had that period where you had the time to plan.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: So let's just break it down nice and simple for somebody listening.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: Where should they start?
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: What's step one?
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: What's step two?
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: What's step three?
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: What's step four?
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_01: What do you think is important?
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: So step one, obviously, is create this plan, you know, that I spoke about, you know, have a clear objective and an idea, write it down, you know, physically have that down in paper or spreadsheet, you know, Word document, and what it is that I'm looking to achieve from, you know, what is the bigger picture?
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: Where do I see myself?
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: One, three, five, ten, fifteen, twenty-five years, etc.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: And just have an idea what it is that I'm looking for, why am I looking to go from you know, employed to self-employed, what are the benefits?
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: That would be step one.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: Step two for me would be look looking and say, well, to run a business successfully, you obviously need remuneration.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: You know, your client bank is arguably the most important thing, you know, other than obviously yourself and your staff.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_00: But primarily, a majority of people maybe going into an employee role, a self-employed role from an employee role, probably be by themselves initially.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they may well have a family member, um, a wife or a partner that may be able to help out, but primarily it'll probably just be you know one person.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I think looking at that and say, well, targeting your client bank, where where is your remuneration going to come from?
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: And what type of business do you want to run?
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: Are you going to run a fixed fee model?
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: Are you going to run a percentage-based ongoing model?
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, how do you plan on attracting new business?
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: What sort of targets do you need to set yourself just to break even and then look at turning a profit?
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: And that's you know something that we've done within the business.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: We look at it and say every year we sit down and do a business plan, and our overheads invariably, because of inflation and subscriptions going up, our own rates go up, corporation taxes going up, that means that our our gross turnover has to increase as a result of that.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: And then we have to break down to the minute detail is where is that going to come from?
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: Who's going to write what business this year?
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: Because we're all at different stages in terms of our client banks.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, how much is the ongoing remuneration bringing in this year?
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: We have to do reconciliation to review that.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: What happens if you know there's another drop in the markets that we've seen?
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: What happens if there's an increase in the markets that we've seen at the tail end of last year and that the impact that that has?
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: So, all these sorts of different things you really need to drill down, I believe, and really understand what it is you're first of all you're looking to achieve.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: And then secondly, how are you going to be able to action that and deliver on that, if you like?
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that all comes from kind of setting those kind of initial goals and then working back the way to say, well, actually, how are we physically going to how am I physically going to be able to do this?
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: Does that make sense?
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_01: 100%.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: There's three of you that have joined that business, and I think when you partner with other people, there is an element of risk, isn't there?
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like, are these the right people that I'm going to be working with?
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: You've done your due diligence, you've worked with them before, but you've never built a business with somebody before.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: And and you start to say yeah, very, very different.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_01: Recently, my business partner of 15 years has left.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: So now it's like my own business.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: And it's weird.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's like a kind of like a like a marriage, you know, like a you're married to somebody for like 15 years, and all of a sudden they're not there.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_01: Resentments aside, there are things that we didn't get on well with sometimes.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but still there is that person that's that's now now left.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_01: And you kind of fall sometimes into that better the devil you know kind of philosophy.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_01: But going back and kind of making sure that you're joining a business and starting it with the right type of people, I think some of the things that can often come up are how much time is somebody spending on the business?
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_01: What is it they are doing, and how are they remunerated for the work that they do?
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_01: So, three financial advisors setting up an IFA business.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: How did you decide on what how you are remunerated for startups?
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: Let's let's look at that.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: How did you decide your remuneration package?
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_01: Is it all equal?
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_01: Do you, you know, is it is it um yeah, talk to me about that.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_01: How are you how are you how are you remunerating yourselves?
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_01: Is it equal?
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: Do you can you all are you all in control of your own earnings?
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: Because someone might have a bit more ambition than somebody else.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: And these are the problems that can sometimes clog clog heads, and it has done for me in the past.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, uh that's a good question, Sam, to be fair.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_00: I think when when we set the business up, and it's kind of going back to that initial step that we're talking about, creating this financial plan, we we jotted down, you know, from the very outset, guys, what what is it that we really want to achieve?
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: Because if we're going to set this business up business up as a trio, we need to be on the same page effectively.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: We need to be pulling in the same direction.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know, everybody needs to be singing from the same hymn sheet, so to speak.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: And that was really easy for us because the fear of failure, the the working relationship that we'd had previously at the PRU, the fact that our kids are so close in age, they all go on so well, our partners are all, you know, we're all, it's almost like we are a big family, if that makes sense.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: It sounds a bit cheesy, but it but there is that aspect to that.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_00: But there is also, as you mentioned, there is there is risk to that.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_00: But I think for us, what we see was a real opportunity, you know, to move into the independent financial advice world and and and build this business that would be longstanding and implement and put our stamp in financial planning, if you like, that combines the traditions of face-to-face financial advice, the relationship side of things, which are absolutely fundamental, but at the same time implement our ideologies around how technology can really help, you know, our new client portal and at my libertas, and how this can create efficiencies within our business, but also make clients feel part of the business as well by providing live valuation, secure kind of messaging service, uploading documents, so reducing our carbon footprint, all these sorts of things.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_00: So for us, that was that was really important.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: But we sat down in the business and said, well, how do we want to structure things?
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: We want to make things absolutely equal.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: Everything's equal in terms of the remuneration that we pay ourselves, the pension contributions, the benefits within the business.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_00: Everything's done on an equal basis.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: And what we get from that is total transparency and trust between the three of us, because I know for a fact that the two guys, Jamie and Andrew, are working just as hard as I am.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: I'm probably trying to work out what outwork the two of them, but they're trying to work out work outwork myself and the other chap.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_00: So and in that sense, we are all pulling in the exact same direction, we've got the same beliefs, but different at the same time.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I might be seen more as the visionary, the forward-looking one.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_00: Andrew, a bit more pragmatic to kind of say, Well, actually, have you thought about this?
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: Have you thought about that?
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: What is that?
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: How did how would that be perceived?
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_00: And Jamie, you know, gets likes to get into kind of the nitty-gritty of things, you know, and we've all got our different sort of strengths within the business, but a blend which you can think of yourself, actually, I feel like there's something pretty special to what we've got, but without trying to kind of blow smoke, I feel that we are different in the sense that whenever clients come to speak to us, you kind of get three advisors for the price of one, if that makes sense.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_00: So whilst one might be just client-facing to the business, behind the scenes we speak about each individual case, no matter how technical it might be or how simple it might be, everything gets discussed at advisor level, everything's agreed in terms of fees, etc.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_00: What we charge a client because we all have to be in agreement before we make a final decision.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: And that's a way in which it stood us in good stead.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_00: Whether that changes in the future, I don't know.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: But that's the way in which we structure things.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's I think it's one of our strengths, actually, you know, being able to work in such a way.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone's client banks are slightly different in terms of bigger, but I don't see it as, oh, that's my client bank, I bring in this for the business, I should get paid more because I know the guys offer certain things and support where I just wouldn't be able to do that.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I need their reliance and I need their support, and vice versa.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the beauty of working as a three and with the way in which we structure the business.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't think any of us see it as, well, I had an X amount of revenue this year, that means I should get more.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't work that way for us, it works on our level playing field, and I like that, and we all like that.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's all it's something that that works for us.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_01: It works, yeah.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_01: Teamwork makes the dream work, right?
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I think you have to be of a certain mindset and confident that the people that are alongside you are adding that value.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: So if there's areas like when you described the two other guys that you work with, you know, they're yin to your yang, aren't they?
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and that's that's really that's really, really important.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: If you had three people hell bent on themselves and how much money that they can earn themselves, you probably bring a lot of income in.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: But I think the foundations of the business might be a bit rocky, uh, and there might be a few heads clashing, and I earned this much and you didn't earn that much, so I should earn more than you.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_01: I think when you start a business from scratch, it is e it's good to have it as equal, but I think transparency and honesty is also really important because not everybody, I think, is in a same financial situation as well.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_01: You might be lucky that you are in a similar financial situation and in similar stages of your life.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_01: But when like people are picking and choosing perhaps business partners, taking into consideration, has that person got as much hunger to earn as you have, or are they comfortable?
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, not obviously, yeah.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_00: You fit the nail on the head, you know.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_00: I think though there was the chance that an another, you know, individual, you know, at some point would have wanted to join the business uh and a different kind of cycle of their life, and you know, in terms of slightly different objectives.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_00: And for us, we were all on the same page, you know, we were all exactly where we were where we wanted and needed to be, and it was just the kind of perfect storm, if you like.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_00: And you're absolutely right, bringing someone else in that is a different stage of their life journey that maybe doesn't have the same hunger or desire or objectives that could maybe throw a spanner under the works, so to speak.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_00: So for us, it it work, it works really, really well, you know, on that basis.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_01: Client acquisition is a massive deal, right?
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_01: You said it earlier.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_01: If you don't have clients, you don't have a business.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_01: Sales and marketing is the lifeblood of a business, right?
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_01: Now, one of the things that I come across a lot is financial planners new or even experienced maybe a couple of years in, for example, and you tend to find a lot of those that are listening to this podcast do struggle to bring in new business, do struggle to find new client opportunities.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_01: What's worked for you when it comes to client acquisition?
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_01: How do you approach client acquisition?
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_01: Do you prioritize certain things over other things?
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like somebody might go all in on marketing and social media on the hope that that's going to generate clients.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_01: Some go to networking events.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_01: Could you kind of give us an insight into what's working for you when it comes to bringing in those vital clients that pay the bills?
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I think first of all, that the biggest way in which we attract and acquire clients in the business is referrals.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I'm sure that's probably the same for a lot of financial advice firms, not just financial advice firms, but businesses in general, you know, people are far more likely to take someone's recommendation of uh of a person based on the work that's already been done.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: And to be fair, you know, I would say probably 80% of what we, you know, client, new clients come in are on the back of client referrals, you know.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_00: So having that ability to have good, strong relationships built on trust and transparency with the existing client banks that will pay dividends over the over the longer term.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I think we've seen that over the last three years.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_00: You know, our existing client bank are more than happy to you know refer us on.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_00: And there is no set pace at which they come in.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know, sometimes they you know they come along like red buses, you might not get one for months, and you might get three within a week.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_00: And that happened to me at the tail end of last year, you know, December.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_00: It was something you know happening round about December, where kind of three clients phone in, do referral from so on and so on, and all of a sudden, you know, you've got three kind of new prospect clients to kind of go at.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's the biggest thing for us is we try um gather as many reviews online for the likes of Google and then repost them on our social media, social channels to try and reinforce that message about, you know, these are people that were in your position, they've worked with us and they've seen the benefit of working with us.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_00: Would you like to work with us as well?
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's really powerful, you know, because I wouldn't never buy anything online nowadays, but because I'm a bit stingy, without doing my due diligence and reading the reviews and making sure before I part with any cash that I'm buying the right sorts of product from the right type of person.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_00: And financial advice is no different.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_00: If anything, it's it's more important that you do your due diligence.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_00: So we say that to clients frequently.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: Go out and speak to other financial advisors, get a feel for what it is that they're like, and come back to us if you want to work with us, because it's really important for you as a client to feel comfortable and you need to be able to trust us.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's the biggest thing, is that you need to be able to trust us to make decisions on your behalf with your best interests at heart.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_00: And if you can do that, then we're the right financial advisor for you.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_00: If you don't get that sense of feeling, that warm feeling of I can trust this person, I like this person, and you get it from someone else, then maybe we're not the right fit for you.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_00: But go and explore it and do your due diligence.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, to be fair, that's maybe more so for clients that are coming in, phoning in, you know, that that haven't had any advice before.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, they maybe come through our social channels or directly through the website.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_00: You know, these are sorts of clients, but the other sorts of clients you can say to them, you know, you've been a direct referral from, you know, an existing client, they've probably already got that feeling about you already because they already trust you vicariously through, you know, uh a friend of theirs that's referred them on.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I mean, I think that's I think it's massively important, Sam, to answer the question.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_01: Clients need financial advice.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_01: They reckon it's 95% of the population that aren't seeking financial advice at the moment.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_01: And there's more than there's so many reasons why people can turn themselves off to actually seeking financial advice and getting financial advice.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I think trust is one of them.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_01: I think not knowing exactly what a financial planner actually does and the benefit of speaking to one can have on your life, whether that's your personal well-being, your financial well-being, or your security instinct or your family well-being?
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there are so many things that money controls within our thinking and in our worry and our anxiety.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yet we put ourselves off speaking to financial planners.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_01: What are you doing to kind of create simplicity, psycholinguistics, that easy approach to financial advice to make it accessible and understandable, that financial education?
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_01: What are you doing?
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think it's important that we do that?
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_01: Because historically, you look at financial planning websites, for instance, and I look at loads.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_01: They're so complicated.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_01: They're so like, we know something and you don't know it, therefore you need my help.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_01: And now you're starting to see the younger advisors come through and actually sort of simplify and educate.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_01: What are you doing around that?
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_01: And do you think that's important?
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_01: Or do you think the kind of you know, we know more than you approach is actually something that pulls people in?
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_00: I would I would agree with your first kind of stance, Sam.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_00: I think we are of the younger generation of advisors where we see our roles obviously to advise clients and recommend, you know, a financial plan based on their circumstances.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_00: But our job as well is to educate our clients as well, you know, to bring them up to speed.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_00: We were actually just having a conversation in the office yesterday about how we would like to see more clients be engaged with their money, you know, ask more questions, take more of an interest in what underlying assets are, without kind of claiming to be experts, you know, the clients from that perspective, but take more of an active interest as opposed to saying, all right, okay, that's great, we'll see you sort of next year.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_00: We we want clients to be engaged with the conversations that we're having with them.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that stems from the understanding that they have.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_00: If they don't have an understanding of it, it's pretty easy just to switch off because it's straight over their head, and you think to yourself, right, I'm not really going to pay any attention to that because I just don't understand it.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_00: So for us, the the education piece is absolutely massive.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_00: In terms of what we do currently, you know, we try to make sure that any content that we put on our social media is relevant, it's it's easy to understand.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_00: But it's an area that, in all honesty, that it's it is a priority.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_00: But I go back to the point I made earlier that at the moment, because there's just the three of us, and we don't have any admin staff or paraplanners, that kind of falls by the wayside from time to time, just purely based on the fact that our kind of key focus is making sure that the clients that we're currently working with, they're serviced to a high standard and we can do that properly.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_00: But to be fair, we know we kind of restructure how we do things in the business in terms of you know, Andrea and Jamie kind of deal more with the new business side of things, and I deal you know more with more social media content.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I'll be looking to do more on that aspect, you know, the education piece, um, as well as kind of service the existing client back.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_00: But it's something that the three of us we are quite passionate about, you know, we can ensure that people you know are up to speed, you know, we can make it easy for them to understand.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_00: So, and I'm sure that a lot of advisors do this, but we were quite surprised kind of going to kind of a few network meetings uh and uh seminar meetings with with our network that not all advisors are using the likes of kind of cash flow planning tools, which was just alien to us, if I'm being honest, because that is a tool that really brings the financial planning process to life, right?
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's something that's visual.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_00: Clients respond to that, they see it real life, they're like, wow, this is what retirement actually looks like.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_00: And that's such a fundamental part of what we do.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_00: So we we we speak heavily around about the importance of bringing it to life for clients and making that transition, if you like, from this is a pension to this is what retirement looks like, these are what your goals are, this is how we're going to help you achieve that in a in a format that it as I say brings it to life for them essentially.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_00: So it's really important.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that one thing that we try to do within the business, and I know having spoken to the guys in the meetings that we have, is that we try and break things down in our client meetings.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_00: So very rarely do any of us go into a meeting, for example, the first meeting, and we'll crack out, you know, fact-find and all the rest of it, and we'll do the formal, you know, this is our client agreement.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_00: What we tend to do is just have a general conversation like we are today, you know, build a bit about trust and transparency, you know, understand the person on a personal level, let that let them understand you, and then ask them, you know, what is what is it that you would like to get from this meeting?
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_00: Tell us about your objectives, tell us about what your goals and aspirations are, and then just silence, shut up, and just let them speak.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_01: 100% asking those open questions and trying to get to the core really of why somebody is sat in front of you.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_01: What do they want from their life?
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_01: What are those fears that they might have?
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_01: I always think when you uncover and discover, you should really look at what's on somebody's mind on a daily basis.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_01: And there's usually a fear attached to it.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_01: You know, a fear of not achieving something, a fear of not having enough money, a fear of not being comfortable.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_01: And it's usually linked to security instincts, it could be linked to their ego, uh, social instincts, what people think of them and how much money they have, the prestige of who they actually are.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_01: And ultimately, we're all kind of a little bit anxious most of the time as human beings, because we're all in this kind of territorial mindset and we want more and we want more.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_01: But often the more that we do, the more anxiety and stress that we actually cause ourselves and the lack of awareness that we have, that more often than not, we have we have everything that we want.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_01: One of the kind of things that I love about financial planning, and I'm learning more about is that it is a human-to-human experience and it's like a counseling experience.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the quicker you are able to get to the core of what that person is feeling, what their pain is, because everyone's got a bit of pain.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_01: I think the quicker you're going to build a relationship with somebody and the quicker you can solve their problem.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_01: So when you when you're in that initial meeting and you just said there, like just asking that open question and sitting back and just shutting up, can you give some people some examples of maybe some of the questions that you ask to get some of the vital answers out of those clients and to get them kind of already building that relationship with you and releasing that vital oxytocin that creates the connection?
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_00: I I would say there's kind of specific questions, Sam, you know, that we would kind of ask specifically.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_00: But I think the biggest thing as a follow-up question to any response to a client is tell me why.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_00: Why is that the case?
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_00: Why is that important to you?
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_00: Why specifically do you want to do this?
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_00: What are you going to get from that?
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_00: And asking that follow-up question of why and let the client speak.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that again, go back to the days at Prue Training, you know, you're kind of drilled in here.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_00: And they open up so many doors that you end up finding out, you know, you start speaking about one thing for the client and you go off on a tangent and you get to the root of actually, this is what you've been searching for, Mr.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_00: Client.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_00: You came and wanted to speak about X, Y, and Z.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_00: We're now speaking about A, B, and C.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_00: And you've done that through a method of asking questions.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_00: And primarily follow-up questions in the format of why?
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me more.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_00: Why is that the case?
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_00: What is it specifically that you're going to get from this if you don't if you do or you don't achieve this objective?
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_00: And why is it important?
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that's really important for us.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I think that's why we as a business, why you know, when we tend to see clients in a new prospective basis, uh, I don't know what exactly what our conversion rate is in terms of turning that to business, but it's pretty high.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_00: I'd hasten to say it's maybe north of 80, 90% of clients that we see will lead to business.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's set around being able to kind of establish the foundations of a good relationship and on top of that, the kind of technical knowledge and be able to bring it to life for clients on top of that.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_01: In reality, the clients that you're actually seeing, do you tend to find they are quite insecure?
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: When it comes to finance.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_01: So you could have some really successful people sit in front of you, and you might have that kind of complex where you think, God, this guy's coming to see me, runs his own business, he's been doing it for years.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_01: He's obviously really intelligent.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_01: He's he's he's he's um successful.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I think sometimes a financial planner, especially if they're new, might look at them and think, God, how am I going to teach them something about money?
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_01: But do you find sometimes it doesn't really matter about the client's journey or where they are in life?
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think they often come with a level of either insecurity around money or how to manage money effectively because perhaps they're so busy in other areas of their life?
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I suppose on the other flip side of that, I can imagine you might sit down with people who have a kind of like that intellectual kind of pride that they think they know everything about it.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_01: And why should you help them?
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_01: Is that the kind of flip?
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_01: Is that the kind of two?
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they're probably opposite ends of the spectrum, Sam, where you've got somebody that's a bit, you know, vulnerable, if you like, the vulnerability aspect comes out where they, you know, they probably bother bury the head in the sand a little bit.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_00: And then you've got the other end of the spectrum where they, you know, I know about this and you know, I know about that.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, it's kind of like, right, okay, right, we'll do deal with you guys kind of separately.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_00: But I think, you know, for clients at the end of the spectrum where there is an area of vulnerability to them where they're they they don't really understand things and maybe wasteful, it's bringing out that education piece for them and speaking to them on a level where you're not overpowering them to say, for example, um, we know this, we know that, and it makes them feel even worse about things.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_00: So it's bringing them up to your level, um, if that makes sense, is a uh in that in that respect.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I think on the other end of the spectrum, you've got clients that think you know, probably they know more than what they actually do.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of bringing them down a little bit to say, well, look, you're not wrong.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_00: What you're saying is right, but actually, we just need to add this little bit in here because this just kind of complements what you're saying.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_00: If without kind of telling them, no, that's completely who's told you that that's absolutely wrong.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_00: Joel from down the pub doesn't know what he's talking about.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_00: There's just a different way in which you can position it with clients to kind of, I suppose, empower them on both ends of the spectrum.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_00: We've said one client, right, we're going to bring you up here, we're going to bring you down slightly, but in such a way that empowers them and still makes them feel that yes, I I I feel good about this, if you get where I'm getting where I'm coming from.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, 100%.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone's different, right?
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_01: And you've got to learn how to interact with different personalities at different stages in their in their in their lives and in their thinking.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_01: You know, no two people you sit in front of you are ever the same, but but the questions remain the same.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_01: And if you ask the questions in the right way, you'll get you'll start to pick up on cues as to where that person is with their thinking or their belief system.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I find that fascinating around people.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_01: I love asking open questions.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_01: I love probing.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a naturally probing type individual.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's my personality.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_01: If I see a weakness in somebody, or if I see um like intellectual pride, or if I see a passion or an enthusiasm, I probe it.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not to, it's not for my own personal gain, like a kind of psychopathic, sociopathic type way of controlling somebody else.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_01: I just find it really interesting.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_01: Because you can often, with questions, lead people down to an answer that they don't even know is within them.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_01: And um, that's where the beautiful thing happens.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's how quickly can I lead somebody into a vulnerable state?
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's in that vulnerable state that the learning happens.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_01: When you get to look at yourself and go, hang on, I am fucked.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_01: Now I can change.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like it's getting them to that stage, but doing it in a way that's loving and kind and compassionate, and that you've got their best interests at heart.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_01: Because the quicker you do that, the quicker the connections built, the more, the more chance that first meeting, right, is going to convert into a second meeting and obviously convert into business.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_01: Now, on that note, before we move on to technology, because I do want to talk about technology with you.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_01: When it comes to those first meetings, you've had a lot of first meetings in your time, right?
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_01: I just I assume when you first started out to where you are now, your conversion rate's a lot higher when it comes to first meeting to say converting somebody into a client.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah?
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_01: Any when it comes to that, is there something that you do to help the process of not just having a diary full of first meetings, right?
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_01: But actually having some that convert to business.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_01: What's fundamental?
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_01: Have you got like a marketing process?
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_01: Have you got a follow-up process?
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_01: Are there things that you give them to go away and think about?
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_01: Do you phone them up?
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_01: What's your process converting first meetings to second and paying clients essentially?
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a great question, Sam.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_00: And it probably ties into the kind of technology aspect that we're going to cover in just a little bit.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, our process uh at the moment uh is that, you know, generally speaking, we see with that meet with a new client, we'll have a, if you want to call it a kind of fact-find call uh that might take 15, 20 minutes, just you know, maybe a referral in from a client.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_00: Just tell me a little bit about your scenario.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_00: What why is it that you've called specifically?
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_00: And already mentally you're making some notes about this person and you're kind of building, you're already starting to build that relationship.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I think for the three of us, we we spoke about it at the the the end of the year when we structured our first meetings, it's all centered around just having a general conversation with clients, you're finding out more about them, what their drivers are, really understanding what it is that they're looking to achieve.
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think if you overlook that and you go straight into what's your name, what's your date of birth, you know, all this, that, and the next thing, you don't actually grasp what it is that they're looking to do.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I think clients probably feel that.
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_00: Why is this guy not really asking me the questions that why I've really come here in the first place?
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's vitally important for us.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's what we look at.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_00: So when when we normally do that, it is very open.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_00: Tend to take up maybe a couple of notes about soft facts, objectives in terms of what you would like to achieve.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_00: And then normally what we do, you know, depending on what the scenario is clients, let's just say you've got five pensions looking to do a bit of consolidation, hasn't really done any retirement in the past.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_00: We'll depending on how things go in the meeting, we'll maybe crack out the cash flow and say, look, this is what this looks like.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you told me you want to retire at 16, you've got 250k or whatever it might be, you've got a final salary pension that kicks in, you want an income of X, this is all this kind of potentially plays out, and we can look at it and say, This is what this could potentially look like.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_00: We'll then go away uh right away to the set of providers, we explain that to clients through a follow-up email link, and which is going to be going through our app now.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, in terms of this is what we discussed at the meeting, you know, the next steps are X, Y, and Z.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_00: Once we have that information back, we'll analyze, we'll come back to you and let you know what our potential recommendations might be.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_00: And at that point, we put a proposal together if it goes to business, for example, to say, based on your circumstances, what your objectives are, we feel actually you would be best suited to kind of, you know, for example, consolidate these pensions to achieve that objective, unless administration set some concrete plans for retirement and know that your money's being managed in the right sort of way, so you get the most out of it.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_00: And this is what our proposal is.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_00: And we normally get clients to sign, sign that, and then we kind of take things to kind of full advice and we put everything together on the back of it.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_00: So that process has worked really well for us because what we are kind of doing in that sense is that we're not doing all the work to get to the very end of the process for the client to turn around and say, nah, that we we don't want to go ahead with that because our time's precious at the end of the day, and it is.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_00: But equally, we need to give something tangible to the client to show them that we have done you know the work to say, actually, this is what our recommendation would be, this is the proposal, and includes, you know, for example, the fee agreement, etc.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_00: etc.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_00: and the provider, the funds, and all that sort of stuff.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_00: So the client's got an idea of what our advice is going to look like.
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_00: We've already showed them probably for the first meeting, certainly, and an interim meeting as well.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_00: We'll get them back in to do the more hard facts, you know, name, date of birth, etc.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_00: etc.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_00: All that sort of stuff that we need for the file, but it's not really that exciting, you know.
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_00: Client can kind of not note that down.
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_00: What is exciting is tell me about what it is that's brought you here and what it is that you're looking to achieve.
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_00: That's the exciting part.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's when we as financial planners can bring everything to life through the likes of kind of cash flow kind of planning stuff like that.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_00: So that's kind of our process.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_00: And it works, as I say, really well.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_00: And we're just about to implement this process as part of our new kind of app and portal for clients as well.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_01: Brilliant.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_01: Well, tell us a little bit out about the about the app, by the way.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and you're you're you're obviously you're a young firm.
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_01: Technology within the financial planning profession is starting to become prevalent.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_01: Financial advisors are starting to use it, although you are going to meetings and seeing advisors still not using things like cash flow forecasting.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_01: I was on the phone to Timeline yesterday.
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_01: I think Timeline's a fantastic piece of uh technology.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_01: What technology do you have then within your business and and and why are you using it and what's the benefits you're finding?
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so uh in God, 20, yeah, 2022, Sam, we we um as part of the business when we first set up one of the goals was we would like to have some sort of kind of client-facing app slash portal where it's all branded libertash.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_00: So our brand awareness is out there, you know, people know it's us, and you know, we're helping to you know grow the brand, you know, for for years and years to come.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_00: And we we started a you know a due diligence exercise in terms of who out there in the market has the answer to what we're looking for.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I'd actually a family member of mine's a software developer and an app tester and build app, and I'd asked him the question, you know, could you build this app for us?
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_00: What we're looking to do.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_00: And he said, I I could, but it's going to cost a fortune, and it'll cost even more on that on an on ongoing basis to monitor this and uh for the upkeep, etc.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_00: So we were kind of not put off by that, just felt that we probably need to kind of do some more due diligence.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_00: And we came across a company called uh Money Info, and the biggest driver for us over time has been security, um, being able to process client-sensitive information in a secure, uh, safe manner.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, we're talking about kind of clients that have you know portfolios, uh policy numbers, um, bank account details, for example, or providers.
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_00: We need to make sure that that information is as secure as it possibly can be, as well as kind of communicating with clients in the form of email.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_00: So, yes, email's great, it's fantastic.
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_00: However, it is susceptible to you know uh fraud, you know, interceptions, phishing, etc.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_00: So our secure portal will allow us to communicate with clients on a level where they know that the message that they get is from Libertas Financial Management.
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_00: And we know on the flip side, because of the security that the clients need to kind of um get signed into the portal, it will only ever come from them.
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_00: So there is a two-way street for this.
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_00: As well as that, it being branded, we uh are now starting to implement all of their kind of annual review, initial documents, etc., are all uploaded to their kind of document section, it's all filed away.
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_00: So rather than me take a pack out that's kind of 30, you know, 30 documents, which to be fair, you know, between KFIs, KFDs, um suitability reports, fun fact sheets, etc., etc., why print this off, waste time printing this off when it can go in the client's portal and they can click a button at any point in time and view exactly what we'd have brought out to them.
• 55:29
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm not saying that it completely negates the need for paper, but it certainly reduces that and helps us to drive efficiencies, but it puts it in such a format that allows us to move with the times.
• 55:39
  SPEAKER_00: You you look at you know the banks, the major banks, everything's paperless these days, you don't get a paper statement.
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_00: So we want to be able to move with that as well to the point where yes, we there is still the need for paper.
• 55:50
  SPEAKER_00: Still providers will only work off a wet signature, so you know, unfortunately, DocuSign might not work, for example.
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_00: But actually, where possible, we're trying to implement these areas for us to be more efficient and for it to be slicker at the client's end.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_01: With the app, are you does it have the ability for clients to go in and check on how their investments are actually doing, plus the ability for them to play around with things like cash flow forecasting themselves?
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_00: So good question.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um so the app itself, Sam, it it client-facing in in terms of they will be able to see kind of live valuations, live real-time valuations in terms of you know what their plans are worth on a specific day, whether that be today or kind of historically, and give them a kind of holistic view of this is how things have performed.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_00: In terms of cash flow planning, that's what we do.
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we do that specifically for the client.
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we'll use the the subscriptions with um whoever we're using, for example, cash calc at the moment or OM pensions, we'll specifically use the cash flow planning tools within there and put that together for clients.
• 56:59
  SPEAKER_00: I think for clients, the cash flow planning side of things, when you put it forward to them, it looks great, you know, and you can explain it in such a way that it's easy for them to understand.
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_00: If I was maybe to say to a client, maybe one more educated clients, have a go at this, have a go at trying to look at kind of cash flow planning.
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_00: They might look at me as if I've got three horns sticking out my head thinking, what is this?
• 57:18
  SPEAKER_00: What are you talking about?
• 57:19
  SPEAKER_00: But the reality is not uh the the portal itself will allow kind of secure communications between ourselves and the client, live valuations, uh, there's a dashboard on there that has links to our kind of social media channels.
• 57:31
  SPEAKER_00: We upload kind of quarterly market commentary, um, performance of the funds, as well as kind of links to our socials, um, you know, Facebook and um LinkedIn, etc.
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_00: So that's you know, in that sense, um it's kind of holistic for clients because what we manage is on there, but also can I have a conversation with a client yesterday, just a new client can assign that.
• 57:53
  SPEAKER_00: She has an existing client, but you know, just signing up to the app.
• 57:56
  SPEAKER_00: She really liked the idea because she's got to cut a few bayolette properties that she says it's a nightmare kind of um filing away all my kind of mortgage statements um and my emails.
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's just a nightmare trying to find a needle and a haystack was a was a was was what's the term that she used.
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_00: Now she's got this available, she can upload kind of her personal documents into this app and make it available for her to view at any point.
• 58:19
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the renewal is coming up.
• 58:20
  SPEAKER_00: Well, what was the previous rate that I was on?
• 58:22
  SPEAKER_00: What does my life insurance look like?
• 58:23
  SPEAKER_00: I can store my wills and POAs, etc., on there.
• 58:25
  SPEAKER_00: So it's kind of fully holistic in that sense.
• 58:27
  SPEAKER_00: We manage on behalf of the client, but they have so much more access to what they want to do on an individual basis as well.
• 58:34
  SPEAKER_00: In addition to that, it pulls through live valuations for kind of personal investments that you might have, you know, that things that we may not be managing.
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_00: So, for example, a lot of people with workplace pensions today will have live valuations, so that can actually pull through the open banking uh part of the app.
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_00: So clients can get a real-time valuation of what their overall kind of financial uh what their overall retirement savings are kind of valued at.
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_00: And that gives us as advisors a bit more time back.
• 58:59
  SPEAKER_00: So rather than kind of sitting down with a client and you know doing the annual review, tell me what the value is.
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we set up already.
• 59:05
  SPEAKER_00: We already know prior going into the meeting.
• 59:07
  SPEAKER_00: We've already asked them to uh update their kind of expenditure on the app, which can be done.
• 59:11
  SPEAKER_00: So we can save a lot of time and drive a lot of efficiencies by implementing uh a lot of our normal processes, but just through the portal, if that makes sense.
• 59:19
  SPEAKER_01: Do you feel like you've learned a lot about priority prioritization of time, time management through being an AR of a network because they've been there, seen it, got the t-shirt?
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_01: Or are these things that you've you've learned yourself through, I don't know, um podcasts or YouTube videos or reaching out to experts within the profession?
• 59:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, answer that question.
• 59:45
  SPEAKER_01: So does your network actually provide you?
• 59:47
  SPEAKER_01: Do you feel like you get a value from your network from being connected to so many advisors that they see what's best practice and that they've helped you?
• 59:55
  SPEAKER_01: Or have you yourself had to really go out and discover how best to prioritize your time and what to work on to be able to free up the time to see more clients?
• 1:00:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think from our perspective, our network, and it's probably the way in which we like to work, probably coming from an institutionalized background for our days at the crew, being micromanaged because a lot of these big companies are like this.
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_00: Now we have the freedom and independence.
• 1:00:16
  SPEAKER_00: So our network basically says, look, you guys run your business the way in which you want to, but that this is our criteria for you being able to offer advice.
• 1:00:25
  SPEAKER_00: You need to be within these parameters.
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_00: But we'll let you run your business the way you want to run your business, and we'll catch up with you periodically to make sure from a compliance perspective, from our social media policy perspective, that you're ticking all the right types of boxes.
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_00: So for us, that hands-off approach works brilliant for us because I'm not sure how we would how we would flourish in an environment where somebody's looking over a shoulder saying, You can say this, you can't say that.
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_00: We appreciate the fact that you know, with regards to social media posts, for example, that we need to get them compliant.
• 1:00:55
  SPEAKER_00: We can't just put them out.
• 1:00:56
  SPEAKER_00: Our compliance director wants to see them.
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_00: But lo and behold, over time, actually there are no issues with with these because we know exactly what they expect from us and what they they expect from, so what we expect from them and what they expect from us in that sense.
• 1:01:12
  SPEAKER_00: So that was just a kind of teed and in process whereby we didn't really know what we didn't know, but now we know what we know and do what the boundaries are to be fair.
• 1:01:20
  SPEAKER_00: So for us, that's worked really well.
• 1:01:23
  SPEAKER_00: Would we want more support from our network?
• 1:01:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I don't think we probably would want more support from our network.
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_00: I think we run our business pretty well, and they offer a lot of support in terms of CPD events, kind of catching up with other other advisors and stuff like that, some of which we take kind of advantage of.
• 1:01:38
  SPEAKER_00: Some of them we don't because they're maybe just not relevant to our business.
• 1:01:42
  SPEAKER_00: So they might well put on some CPD events for mortgage and protection.
• 1:01:46
  SPEAKER_00: We don't do mortgages, and you know, a lot of our clients find themselves in an area of their journeys where they don't have debts and liabilities.
• 1:01:54
  SPEAKER_00: So protection in that sense isn't a key driver of our business, if that if you get where I'm coming from.
• 1:01:59
  SPEAKER_00: So we'll kind of pick and choose in terms of the events that we want to attend and the support that we get from them.
• 1:02:03
  SPEAKER_00: But say, if we wanted more support, then we could probably get it.
• 1:02:07
  SPEAKER_00: But from for us, from a time management perspective, I think that's something that as a trio, you know, we are actively trying to be better on.
• 1:02:16
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think, as I mentioned before, I think off-air, Sam, it's very difficult.
• 1:02:20
  SPEAKER_00: And as you rightly said earlier, that when you run your own business, you've got the financial in our kind of line of work, you've got the financial advisor hat on, you've also got the the admin hat on, you've got the power planner hat on, you've got the marketing hat on, you've got you know the social media hat on.
• 1:02:34
  SPEAKER_00: You're trying to juggle that that much stuff.
• 1:02:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I think for us, being a trio, a three, we can all kind of we can all kind of deal with those sorts of things.
• 1:02:44
  SPEAKER_00: So me doing it myself, uh sense to the guys like I couldn't physically run the business that run a business the way I want to run a business without doing it together.
• 1:02:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's one of our key strengths is that you know Dramy might kind of deal with more on the accountancy side of things and making sure that the reconciliation's done, and that's just something that I probably just don't have the temperament to do, but he he gets it done and there's no questions asked.
• 1:03:07
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas I kind of have adopted more of a role in the social media side of things and trying to grow the brand, and that's fine, and that's something that I want to embrace.
• 1:03:13
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas Andrew's might be more on the proposition side of things, and he'll look at you know performance and the analytical side of things uh and processes within the business, and it's that blend, if you like.
• 1:03:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I think from that perspective, from a time management, we I think with all businesses, we need to get better at it, but there is the three of us to try and hit you know shelter the burden if that if you get where I'm coming from.
• 1:03:34
  SPEAKER_01: No, 100%.
• 1:03:36
  SPEAKER_01: You've run a yeah, you started a business, it's it's uh an appointed representative.
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_01: You decided not to go DA, so you've gone AR.
• 1:03:44
  SPEAKER_01: That's a complete discussion within itself, and often people toy between the two of why they go AR over DA.
• 1:03:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's probably obvious you needed that extra level of support in the beginning.
• 1:03:56
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, yeah.
• 1:03:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, I would, you know, we got there.
• 1:03:59
  SPEAKER_01: But let's look at the future now, okay?
• 1:04:01
  SPEAKER_01: You're an ambitious individual, and it sounds like you've got two other ambitious people with you as well.
• 1:04:05
  SPEAKER_01: Why are you building?
• 1:04:06
  SPEAKER_01: Why are you building this business?
• 1:04:08
  SPEAKER_01: You know, let's talk about that.
• 1:04:09
  SPEAKER_01: Why build a financial advice business?
• 1:04:12
  SPEAKER_01: Why own one?
• 1:04:13
  SPEAKER_01: Is it to grow to be massive?
• 1:04:15
  SPEAKER_01: Is it to create a lifestyle for yourself?
• 1:04:18
  SPEAKER_01: What does the future look like in your head?
• 1:04:20
  SPEAKER_01: Where are you taking libertus?
• 1:04:23
  SPEAKER_00: I think for us, Sam, that I think going back to the idea that we're all on the same page in terms of why are we doing what we're doing?
• 1:04:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I think, first of all, is that what we as individuals and as a as a team that we get from what we do as advisors.
• 1:04:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I think there's a great sense of satisfaction, um, that we a great sense of gratitude from clients that we get, that warm feeling that we've helped to make a difference for these people.
• 1:04:49
  SPEAKER_00: Now, that might sound a little bit kind of cliche and it might sound a bit cheesy, but the reality is we're running a business, of course, to be remunerated to kind of provide ourselves with a lifestyle.
• 1:04:58
  SPEAKER_00: But beyond that, why what we do is to help people ultimately, you know, people that are in a position where they maybe wouldn't be able to achieve what they want to achieve had they not worked with you know someone like ourselves.
• 1:05:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll give you an example.
• 1:05:12
  SPEAKER_00: I meant to see a couple of clients I've worked on from the very start, one of my very first clients, and they always had the idea that they were going to retire at uh she's 64 and he's 62, they would retire at the same time.
• 1:05:22
  SPEAKER_00: She unfortunately had to be medically retired a little bit earlier, a couple of years prior to retirement, and he decided he was going to work on.
• 1:05:30
  SPEAKER_00: But because she was medically retired, he thought, actually, what's the point of me working on?
• 1:05:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I I want to retire as well.
• 1:05:38
  SPEAKER_00: And when I went back out to them and done the cash flows and ran the numbers and I showed them, you guys have done the hard work, you know, you're ready to retire.
• 1:05:44
  SPEAKER_00: You can go a couple of years early.
• 1:05:46
  SPEAKER_00: Everything from a financial perspective looks absolutely fine.
• 1:05:49
  SPEAKER_00: And they were just so overly kind of thankful of being able to say, actually, you've got us to this point, you've helped us to get to this stage.
• 1:05:58
  SPEAKER_00: We're in a position to retire.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_00: objectives have changed a couple of times now but we still got to the outcome that that we wanted and and earlier and that for me was like a massive a massive kind of win and I was like a such a warm feeling right before Christmas as well so I was getting text messages um I got some kind of gifts for the kids you know that sort of level you know just like some kind of uh knitted toys and stuff like that and a blanket for the baby and that was amazing you know that that sense of fulfillment that I got from that specifically so that is a kind of key driver for us.
• 1:06:31
  SPEAKER_00: In terms of the flip side you know where do we see kind of liber task going?
• 1:06:34
  SPEAKER_00: Well I think that ultimately at the moment you know our kind of sole focus is to service to the existing client bank but also growth I mean we appreciate the fact that you know we're looking to kind of bring new blood into the business and and a new member of staff at some point we need to kind of turn over what our target is for the year to make that profitable to give us the lifestyle that we're looking to to achieve.
• 1:06:56
  SPEAKER_00: But at the same time I think the bigger picture is that we want to try and grow a business that's sustainable that gives more back to the community you know because I think we are in a well paid environment and financial services is to be fair um but we're not greedy with what kind of terms of the fee structure that we have and again why we kind of speak on a case by case basis because you know we were already implementing a lot of what consumer duty had done prior to you know the legislation being brought up you know we didn't have a set charges structure every case was dependent on the level of work that we put in and that's why when clients ask us how much is the fee going to be well we don't exactly know because we don't know what the work's involved just yet we'll let you know at the proposal stage once we've done the work essentially or we know the idea of the work that's involved.
• 1:07:40
  SPEAKER_00: So for us what does the business look like kind of moving forward?
• 1:07:43
  SPEAKER_00: I think we want to get to a stage we're sustainable we give more back to the community and because we are in well kind of paid role well paid roles but ultimately for us giving back is something that you know we're quite passionate about we you know run an annual charity golf event for different sorts of charities and we've done kind of various sorts of things in in that arena so that is also an aspect of what we're looking to do.
• 1:08:04
  SPEAKER_00: In terms of kind of growing the business to a certain number we we don't have an idea in terms of what that looks like 50 million 100 million assets under manager.
• 1:08:11
  SPEAKER_00: And that's not really a driver for us.
• 1:08:13
  SPEAKER_00: I think we want to try and enjoy the journey enjoy the process build a business the way we want to build it in and bring in the right types of people that we want to bring in so we can mold them into the types of people that that we are if you like so I think for us you know it would have been easy last year we could have taken a member of staff on but I feel that for us to to take a member of staff on might it be an administrator paraplanner we need to understand these roles to a T before we can try to implement our culture and our ideology into these people to say this is what we expect from you.
• 1:08:45
  SPEAKER_00: Because if we don't even know what we expect then how can we pass it on to the next person coming into the business?
• 1:08:49
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that was really important for us to learn the ropes of the admin side of things, the paraplanner side of things and then we can take our experiences of doing that and then put it into the the next person coming into the business if that makes sense.
• 1:08:59
  SPEAKER_01: 100% I think when people start a business they often have this picture in their head that they're going to hire like 10 people within the first year and they're going to I'm a nightmare for that.
• 1:09:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know I've been talking to a number of financial advisors about setting up a financial advice business.
• 1:09:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'm really interested in doing it I see I think that's a huge opportunity and having the academy having a recruitment company having the marketing side of what I do I think I'm well positioned to partner with a number of advisors and build a really strong business um I'm really interested in doing it.
• 1:09:26
  SPEAKER_01: But in my head like I have high expectations sometimes of myself and what I can create.
• 1:09:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I think all that can often do is really kind of put more pressure upon yourself.
• 1:09:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I think if you're starting something I like your approach actually it's like well A it's purpose based so what value add are we having to ourselves to our families to the community because you're talking about the community there as well what value does it add to our clients what's you know what wins are we seeing what are we learning from these wins and how is that how is that implementing change within our business to do things better?
• 1:10:01
  SPEAKER_01: It sounds like you're driven by purpose driven by doing things better as opposed to the ego attached to growing a business by numbers of people and how big you are and how many assets under management that you have it sounds like you're driven by doing good doing good creating a good business that has integrity and purpose have you looked have you looked at doing um the B Corp doing you're going through B Corp accreditation.
• 1:10:28
  SPEAKER_01: No I haven't no take a little look at that because B Corp is all we're B Corp takes a good 12 months to go through the process and um once you've got it you have the B Corp logo and you have to always pretty much be under the microscope as to showing and evidencing that you are um a business with purpose so do you give back to the community how do you give back to community what evidence do you do do you have to to to show that um are you using sustainable products um is it a good place to work all those different types of things right and when you do it and you look at it it makes you look at your business in a kind of different way um but also from the outside world looking in they can see what a B Corp actually is and then they get that feeling of like well these guys obviously do care.
• 1:11:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like you know for us it's about you know for every person that we hire for every person that we place we plant trees to try to offset carbon footprint.
• 1:11:21
  SPEAKER_01: We're I'm on the board of directors of Talk Club the men's mental fitness charity we have loads of mental health support within our business if anybody's going through mental health problems that's a real big deal for me.
• 1:11:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah we're going down to Western Beach to pick up litter you know so there's what are we doing that's adding value back and I think B Corp might be something that you might be interested in.
• 1:11:41
  SPEAKER_01: Just take care though because it can be time consuming and you do need like a bit of a committee working on it.
• 1:11:47
  SPEAKER_01: There are a number of I think there's two or three that I know of financial planning companies but I also do think it ties in quite nicely with ethical investing uh positive impact investing as well which I believe like you know the next generation are massively passionate about.
• 1:12:00
  SPEAKER_01: But those that are retiring now are recognizing look the world's in a situation where it's you know it's it's being damaged.
• 1:12:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I think people retiring right now are thinking about their grandchildren, aren't they?
• 1:12:12
  SPEAKER_01: They're thinking about the next generation and what's being left behind um for them.
• 1:12:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I think if you're a you know one of the things I had always said if I had a financial planning business then positive impact ethical investing ESG would be a big deal for me.
• 1:12:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like it would have to be in there and it would be have to be taken into consideration and it would have to be offered to clients where historically it hasn't been you know and I I think um B Corp kind of shines a light on that.
• 1:12:39
  SPEAKER_01: So worth you looking at and I'm absolutely yeah yeah I'm always pushing the B Corp.
• 1:12:43
  SPEAKER_01: Let's end on this let's end on this right you you've been in the profession now for quite some time let's look at the person who's just joining right there's gonna be a lot of people coming into the financial advice profession.
• 1:12:52
  SPEAKER_01: They're gonna be coming from probably other let's look at look at these individuals.
• 1:12:55
  SPEAKER_01: They're coming from other careers maybe they're second careerists okay and they're gonna go straight into financial advice and I promise you this a huge percentage of those are going to be self-employed what advice would you give them in for their first year of joining the financial planning profession maybe looking back on your experience how should they tackle that first year what should they expect what would you tell a younger Callum about the first year and what to do I think I would probably say myself expect the unexpected so you know in the sense Sam that we spoke earlier on about us not being authorized for the first 10 months I don't think that either of us uh three of us expected to be in in that position but we kind of plan for the unexpected in that sense.
• 1:13:42
  SPEAKER_00: So expect the unexpected plan for that it might not happen you'll be in a better position for that if it doesn't happen but if it does then you've kind of got a safety net.
• 1:13:50
  SPEAKER_00: I think the second thing would be go for it.
• 1:13:54
  SPEAKER_00: Literally go for it because we were in a position where our kind of hand was forced we would have done this eventually to be fair.
• 1:14:00
  SPEAKER_00: So we were kind of shoved before we walked if that makes sense but we haven't looked back since then at no point at any stage uh of of the last three years have any of us turned around and said wish we were employed or wish we were still where we were because I think we've pushed the boundaries in terms of what we expected was possible and that kind of just continues to be fair.
• 1:14:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know I think to self when we started the business up we were struggling to kind of find an aim now we've got a fully functioning financial advice business um three of us working well together we've got a client portal app which is all branded um it it it's you know when you take a step back and you look at what you've actually achieved it's like wow that's quite substantial so it can be done but you I think you've got to have that belief that it can be done there's a lot of hard work there's a lot of late nights a lot of things that you don't necessarily want to do but I think if you want to where you get what if you want to get to where you want to be you kind of got to go through that struggle if you like you've got to go and do the hard yards um and I think you'll kind of benefit of that over the longer term.
• 1:15:01
  SPEAKER_01: Callum thank you so much for sharing your experience today uh around your previous career at Prudential the benefits that had to you on your journey I love talking to you about the client journey as well and your experience around how you work with clients and the transition from um restricted into IFA and why you feel that that's beneficial.
• 1:15:21
  SPEAKER_01: Love that your purpose is client relationships and also by the sounds of it trying to create a business that's going to add value to you and your family and those that you actually work with as well.
• 1:15:31
  SPEAKER_01: I absolutely love that thank you so much for your time today.
• 1:15:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's been absolutely valuable I'm sure people listening to this podcast will pick up on your experience and start to implement some of those ideas.
• 1:15:40
  SPEAKER_01: So Callum thank you so much and enjoy 2024.
• 1:15:43
  SPEAKER_01: I hope it's an amazing year for you guys.
• 1:15:45
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks Sam's been a pleasure take care