Latest / Strictly Business / The Asset Class: Jason Borbora-Sheen
Transcript
- 0:00You're listening to Strictly Business Podcast with Lindsay Williams.
- 0:05In 2025, the dollar was perceived by many to be embarking on a long-term bear
- 0:10market.
- 0:10In 2026, of course, conditions have changed and so have some perceptions.
- 0:15In fact, the dollar index over 52 weeks is actually up four and a quarter percent.
- 0:21With me is Jason Borber-Sheen, Portfolio Manager at 91 in London.
- 0:25Jason, the obvious answer to me anyway, to the dollar's strength, is seemingly
- 0:29unthinkable.
- 0:30the war on Iran and now the Fed under a new chairman.
- 0:33Is it that easy, though?
- 0:35I think it's a changing balance of factors.
- 0:37So I'm not sure the war in Iran put much of an impulse under the dollar, but the
- 0:42new Fed chairperson seems to have.
- 0:44So in a all else equal environment, I think when the conflict began in March,
- 0:51you had oil prices rally, you saw that countries like the US who are exporting
- 0:57and other countries who are having to
- 0:58import should probably on balance.
- 0:59have benefited on a relative sense.
- 1:02But really, there was a quite muted reaction, a quite inconsistent reaction
- 1:07from the dollar, just looking at technical
- 1:09factors like how correlated it was to, for example, days when oil was rallying or
- 1:14equities were selling off.
- 1:15What has seemingly though changed a little bit more recently, is that the relative
- 1:22rate
- 1:23differentials have become somewhat more supportive.
- 1:25By that we mean that some of the banks European, UK, relative to the Fed,
- 1:32have seen expectations of their hiking rates being reduced somewhat.
- 1:37So that's occurred as oil has come down.
- 1:39And I think as the end towards the conflict, obviously related to that point,
- 1:44has become somewhat more clear.
- 1:47The last point you raised, or the second point you raised on the Fed, I think is
- 1:50possibly one of the most important, which is that there was a perhaps
- 1:53stale narrative around the dollar debasement trade.
- 1:57from the latter part of last year, which was something like the idea that the US
- 2:03administration was eroding
- 2:04institutional trust, and that consequently, the dollar was on a sort of
- 2:08downward spiral due to geopolitical forces.
- 2:11I think that that trade, that concept and narrative has never been an easy one,
- 2:16actually, to just follow and hold.
- 2:19So there are going to be points of time within that when it's tested.
- 2:23And it seems as though from the sort of positioning in sentiment data we follow.
- 2:27it had become long in the tooth, and that was at risk of a reversal.
- 2:33And I think the first press conference from Kevin Walsh did light a fire under
- 2:38that because it gave a
- 2:39fairly orthodox, credible perspective that was then reconfirmed by the likes of the
- 2:45US Treasury Secretary
- 2:46Scott Besant in terms of the need to create credible policymaking from the Fed.
- 2:52So it took out some of the idea that there would be a...
- 2:55unorthodox or unnecessary rate cuts.
- 2:58And it puts some support under the dollar.
- 3:00It's very interesting that first meeting that was stewarded by Kevin Walsh, because
- 3:05I think there were five points that
- 3:07the committee raised that would change the way that the Fed does things, change the
- 3:11way that they look at data, change the way that they
- 3:13communicate as well.
- 3:15Was that terribly important to you?
- 3:17To an extent.
- 3:18So I think we have now moved into a different era of monetary policymaking.
- 3:23So the sort of...
- 3:25idol or hero for Kevin Walsh appears to be Alan Greenspan, who's famous for
- 3:32having prided himself on not overly being explicit about what the Fed's plans or
- 3:38decisions were.
- 3:39And I think he is following in those footsteps when you look at how succinct
- 3:43the statements are, what the tenor
- 3:47of his arguments were when asked about the next step by the Fed.
- 3:52it was very clear that he doesn't want to give away too much information.
- 3:56And I think ultimately, you know, these working streams that you allude to, etc,
- 4:00are all part of that, that the belief
- 4:03from many, and perhaps fairly, is that the Fed does need to re-evaluate how policy is
- 4:08made.
- 4:09But that has been given or conveyed to the market in a way which has put some
- 4:15emphasis under the institutional
- 4:16credibility of the Fed, actually.
- 4:17And I think that's why you've seen A lot of the debasement trades, whether that's
- 4:22gold, whether that's cryptocurrencies,
- 4:24actually fade on the back of the press conference.
- 4:28The ECB has raised rates and the US Federal Reserve has more or less said that
- 4:34rates will be flat.
- 4:35In fact, there was one investment bank, I think it was Bank of America, that said
- 4:40that they didn't expect any rate cuts in the United States
- 4:42of America till 2028.
- 4:44So the interest rate differentials that you've spoken about are terribly
- 4:47important.
- 4:47despite the fact...
- 4:49that the ECB has acted early.
- 4:51You say that their forward expectations are rather more dovish whereas the Fed are
- 4:56rather more hawkish.
- 4:57Is that the case?
- 4:59Yes.
- 4:59So the relative change in terms of what markets are pricing for the Fed and for
- 5:03the ECB has been in favour
- 5:06more recently, at least from the dollars perspective, I suppose, off the Fed.
- 5:09So there are now, based on the pricing today, one and a half hikes for the
- 5:16Fed priced, interestingly, then followed by cuts into 2027.
- 5:21And then to reverse some of those hikes, and then for the ECB, a lot of the pricing
- 5:27of hikes has been taken out.
- 5:29And so you can argue a sort of circular point here around all the banks have acted
- 5:36with
- 5:36credibility in the face of higher inflation risks from the conflict.
- 5:40But also there seems to have been a resolution or some form of resolution to
- 5:44the conflict leading to lower oil prices.
- 5:46So you have a sort of virtuous dynamic there.
- 5:50But ultimately, yes, you've had a more supportive move in interest rate
- 5:53differentials for the dollar.
- 5:55Is this all in the market?
- 5:56Here we are with the euro dollar as we speak at around about 114, the dollar
- 5:59index at 101.
- 6:03Does the market now say, right, the Fed has set out its case here, and so has the
- 6:08ECB, Bank of England, Bank of Japan,
- 6:10etc.
- 6:11So now we must decide where the dollar is going, because the dollar is, of course,
- 6:15so important for every single asset class
- 6:18globally.
- 6:19Where do you think we go from here, Jason?
- 6:21Yeah, good question.
- 6:21I mean, I think the simple answer is that some of it is more in the price.
- 6:24So we have reduced a little bit of our dollar exposure.
- 6:27But there's two ways that we look at the dollar in our income portfolios.
- 6:30One is as a pure idea of generating profits for our strategies.
- 6:37And that boils down to, as you allude to their relative interest rate
- 6:41differentials, and what's mispriced in terms of
- 6:44where we think the banks are going to get to, as well as then the more cyclical.
- 6:49economic and structural factors that should affect its valuation.
- 6:53I think that side has moved in a small sense more recently, and that's a bit of
- 6:59the driver.
- 7:00You then have this second way in which the dollar plays into portfolios, which is
- 7:04this concept of this as the ultimate defensive asset.
- 7:07And I think that the fact that the debasement trade was weighing against
- 7:11that, the fact that then we've had these moves that seem
- 7:14to counter it, does suggest that the dollar could be back.
- 7:19as a useful diversifying exposure in portfolios.
- 7:22Now, whether that's individuals holding more dollars offshore, whether that is
- 7:27actually having a dollar sort of
- 7:30structure in your portfolio to act as a diversifier, I think combined makes some
- 7:35case for why you would still have some.
- 7:36So the sort of short answer is yes, I think it is slightly more in the price.
- 7:39So we have reduced our exposure, but we are retaining some.
- 7:42For a combination of the two, the fact that the US seems economically still to be
- 7:47outperforming and that you do have this concept that
- 7:49actually as a diversifier it could be back in portfolios.
- 7:53Jason thank you very much for your insight.
- 7:55Jason Bourbrichine is a portfolio manager at 91 in London.
- 8:01The views and opinions expressed in these podcasts are those of Lindsay Williams and
- 8:06various contributors and do not reflect the policy
- 8:08position or opinion of any other agency, organisation, employer or company
- 8:14associated with
- 8:15strictlybusinesspodcast.com.
- 8:18Assumptions made on the analyses are not reflective of the position of any other
- 8:22entity other than the speaker or the author
- 8:25and since we are critically thinking human beings these views are always subject to
- 8:30change, revision and
- 8:31rethinking at any time.
- 8:33Please do not hold us to them in perpetuity.