Latest / Minnesota Masonic Histories and Mysteries / Episode 100. Building Connection & Trust: It Starts with You

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Episode 100. Building Connection & Trust: It Starts with You · Minnesota Masonic Histories and Mysteries

• 0:00
  It's been almost a year since you were here last time.
• 0:02
  Is it?
• 0:03
  You don't like us or what is it?
• 0:05
  Do you just other guests or?
• 0:06
  I have a mustache now.
• 0:08
  Did I hear AI had something to do with that?
• 0:10
  Yes.
• 0:10
  When you were having a a facial hair?
• 0:12
  Yes.
• 0:12
  Well, we'll talk about that in a little bit.
• 0:14
  Okay.
• 0:14
  All right.
• 0:14
  When we get to the issues section, wish one of our guests has issues.
• 0:21
  So we have some exciting news with Grand Lodge, Minnesota and Minnesota Masonic Charities in 2026.
• 0:27
  We are going to be launching a pilot program for a handful of lodges to work very closely with you guys at Face It.
• 0:35
  Myself, Ethan Sieberg, Marcus Mueller will be involved.
• 0:38
  But before we get into that, can you give us more of an overview of what Faceit is all about for someone who's not familiar?
• 0:45
  We're a peer support organization that Bill and I launched back in in 2009.
• 0:51
  Really what we've done is create a place where guys can come and have these authentic conversations you just referenced where guys can build deeper relationships with each other.
• 1:01
  where guys find, uh, they find a buddy with whom they can share the things that they've not been able to share with anybody else, I don't know.
• 1:07
  How would you, uh, jump on that bill?
• 1:09
  So many men.
• 1:10
  Are missing that community function.
• 1:13
  And that's what's so important about face it face, it brings guys together with like thoughts, like challenges and, and, and struggles.
• 1:21
  And to realize that the person next to you understands what you're saying means you're not all alone.
• 1:26
  That's the community we're talking about.
• 1:30
  And I, and I think the, the, the thing that I've seen so much over the 16 years we've been doing this, you know, guys notoriously say stuff like, well, well, I don't need to talk about that.
• 1:40
  Or, it's not that big a deal, right?
• 1:41
  Or, gosh, I should just, whatever, get over it, man, is that wrong?
• 1:46
  And watching guys learn to talk to each other, support each other, learn from each other, connect with each other, hold each other to account, it's incredible.
• 1:55
  I think a lot of us, myself included, grew up in, that's a generational thing that we pass along, that we didn't really talk about our feelings or we didn't talk about what was going on in our lives.
• 2:07
  Growing up, it was just, well work harder, try harder, play through the proverbial pain, literally and figuratively.
• 2:15
  part of what really excites me about this pilot we're going to do.
• 2:19
  It's because I'm gonna be very honest with you that in Freemasonry we're really good at saying the word brotherhood, but is it more than the small talk and the jokey banter that we all defer to over dinner?
• 2:32
  We ask this question a lot in our travels.
• 2:34
  What does having authentic brotherhood, meaningful friendship, what does that look and feel like in a lodge setting?
• 2:41
  Because we have learned the hard way.
• 2:43
  It's nearly impossible to build a healthy lodge culture based solely on the opening of our meeting.
• 2:48
  We read the minutes, do some business, and then we close.
• 2:53
  Our focus has been one dimensional for decades.
• 2:55
  We say more members in one sentence, and then we lose sight of ensuring we're providing an ongoing meaningful and quality experience.
• 3:06
  And that's not a negative on any of our members, that that's just the, the world we live in.
• 3:11
  It's hard to say.
• 3:13
  It's hard to be vulnerable.
• 3:14
  It's hard to talk about the full spectrum of our life challenges from something that may seem more trivial to something of very grave and serious.
• 3:24
  Yeah.
• 3:24
  And, and you know, I think for so many men, the, the trivial stuff matters and they think, oh, it doesn't, so I don't talk about it.
• 3:32
  The grave difficult, challenging stuff they're afraid to talk about, right?
• 3:36
  They're afraid to be vulnerable.
• 3:37
  They're afraid to share what they may perceive, that, oh, a guy's gonna think I'm weak.
• 3:41
  A guy's gonna think that I don't have my act together.
• 3:44
  And, and it's just so tragic because the reality is, is the guy you're sitting next to, from whom you're keeping your secret.
• 3:51
  He's got the same dang secrets and we just don't know how to talk to each other.
• 3:55
  You know, an important thing we talk about at face it too is that we don't compare struggles.
• 4:01
  I mean, my struggle may seem trivial, so I don't want to talk about it, and someone else's may be rather more monumental, but they're the same.
• 4:08
  I still struggle with what I'm dealing with and that person does too, and to think that I don't need to talk about it because it's not that big a deal.
• 4:16
  That's, that's us really struggling with, with our own vulnerability.
• 4:21
  It hadn't occurred to me that there may be that comparison.
• 4:24
  Oh yeah.
• 4:25
  That we may feel like, well, gosh, the guy next to me.
• 4:28
  Is struggling with something far greater and deeper than I am.
• 4:31
  And maybe I shouldn't share my little trivial aspect of things that have been challenging me on my rollercoaster of life.
• 4:38
  no question.
• 4:39
  We see that at face it and, and often the litmus test at Face it.
• 4:42
  you know, our mission statement reads that we work with men who deal with depression, but really we, we work with guys who deal with all sorts of issues, but at face it, a guy will say, well, you know, I haven't had a suicide attempt, or I wasn't in the hospital, so therefore my problems.
• 4:56
  You know, they don't matter.
• 4:57
  Well, meanwhile, that guy may not have had a suicide attempt or be in the hospital, but it turns out he was abused as a kid or he just lost a really important job.
• 5:05
  Or he's going through a divorce or he lost a child.
• 5:08
  I mean, it's like Bill just said what, you know, comparison, what's the saying?
• 5:13
  Comparisons to thief of all joy.
• 5:14
  But really comparison is the thief of realizing how important I am as an individual because it's my journey.
• 5:22
  It's got nothing to do with your journey.
• 5:25
  We have a variety of veterans that come to face it as well.
• 5:28
  And someone will look at the, another veteran and say, well, I wasn't deployed.
• 5:32
  I wasn't, I didn't see combat.
• 5:34
  I'm not worthy of being here.
• 5:35
  I I, I, I can't be in the same room as you.
• 5:38
  And you know what, those guys, that band a brother we talk about, they look at that guy and say, you signed the paper just like we did.
• 5:45
  You know what?
• 5:45
  No, you're, you belong here.
• 5:47
  And that's the powerful thing.
• 5:48
  It makes people realize that their story is just as important as the next person's.
• 5:55
  In the conversations that the three of us have had, I've learned that face, it is about peer support is it's not 12 steps, it's not religion based.
• 6:04
  you're enhancing the friendship, experience, building community, deepening the relationships with one another.
• 6:09
  I, I think we have great opportunity to work together to really see.
• 6:15
  Our Masonic brothers coalesce around this and, and take friendship and that concept of brotherhood to a far deeper level.
• 6:23
  I, I think the opportunity is just, it's unbelievable.
• 6:26
  You know, we've been doing this for 16 years and when we first got going, people said, oh, it's not gonna last.
• 6:31
  Guys won't talk.
• 6:33
  As we've learned, guys just need the place to talk.
• 6:35
  And, and what that place is isn't just a building, it's the safety.
• 6:39
  It's the ability to be open.
• 6:40
  It's the ability to be honest.
• 6:42
  And, and what you bring to all of this, the lodge is, is you guys already know each other a little bit and you have some connection.
• 6:50
  Now the opportunity is just on each and every one of you and your, your willingness to go a little deeper with a guy.
• 6:57
  Well, in speaking your truth, when it's scary.
• 7:00
  Requires a deeper bond of trust in that mutual respect.
• 7:05
  I think that's the biggest thing.
• 7:06
  Like I said, so many guys don't think about that You talked about earlier, think about the messages we were told as a kid.
• 7:12
  You know what?
• 7:12
  Just rub dirt on it.
• 7:13
  Pull yourself up by your bootstraps.
• 7:15
  You know what?
• 7:16
  We've probably all heard, we.
• 7:18
  Stop it or I'll give you something to really cry about.
• 7:20
  Oh yeah.
• 7:21
  I mean, I was a young man who struggled emotionally, and when you hear that message, you're told not to talk about it.
• 7:26
  That's what that message tells you, but it isn't until you actually get around people.
• 7:30
  Like I said, the biggest thing if it face it, is that you're talking to someone that understands it.
• 7:35
  And that's, that's what's so powerful to see two guys from totally different cultures and lifestyles and, and everything be able to talk about some of the same struggles and they don't feel as, as alone as they did before.
• 7:49
  And to clarify, face it, foundation is not therapy, so to speak.
• 7:54
  You're not seeing a, a therapist in air quotes?
• 7:56
  No, no.
• 7:57
  It's, it's all about peer support.
• 7:59
  I mean, we have, we have 24 men's groups and.
• 8:03
  We have 41 men who volunteer to help lead these groups.
• 8:06
  And we've got a guy who works on a printing press.
• 8:09
  We've got a guy who's an accountant.
• 8:11
  We've got a guy who owns auto mechanic shops.
• 8:14
  I mean, these are just regular guys spending time with each other on a consistent basis, and the ticket being the consistent parts, so they get to know each other.
• 8:22
  You, you just mentioned this, you know you, when you share something real with somebody, that level of trust goes through the roof.
• 8:29
  And when you get to know people, you can share more with them.
• 8:35
  One of my favorite authors says that the real act of building a friendship involves performing a series of small, concrete social actions.
• 8:43
  Well.
• 8:44
  That's being able to disagree, agreeably revealing vulnerability at the appropriate pace, being a good listener, knowing how to see things from another's point of view.
• 8:56
  It's about how we treat each other in the minute interactions of daily life.
• 9:02
  Not everything is necessarily a full-blown crisis, but men are struggling.
• 9:08
  It is not easy being a man in today's world society I heard it said is playing a game of zero sum empathy.
• 9:17
  Do better men try harder, patriarchy bad.
• 9:21
  Stop being so useless.
• 9:23
  And the next sentence people ask, where are all the good men at?
• 9:30
  Perhaps if you're listening to us today, you're thinking that you don't need a, a podcast interview to.
• 9:35
  Tell you how to do something that seems self-evident in interacting with someone, but it's really not it, it's not self-evident.
• 9:42
  'cause our social skills and ability to connect have suffered In recent years in my lodge visits, I've noticed a recurring theme that's been alarming.
• 9:53
  Our brothers are reaching out for help, guidance and assistance from outside sources.
• 9:59
  And when asked, well, why didn't you turn to someone in lodge?
• 10:02
  What prevented you from reaching out to a brother?
• 10:05
  The consistent answer has been basically a lack of confidence that they, they don't wanna be judged, laughed at, not taken seriously, maybe even gossiped about.
• 10:16
  We've done a lot of work with you both directly and indirectly, and I know a lot of our members have reached out to you guys that have leveraged the resources, similar feedback.
• 10:26
  They, they, they didn't know if someone in lodge would understand or empathize or not judge.
• 10:33
  I have to be honest, it, it's, it's hard to not feel like we're letting each other down.
• 10:39
  Our, our members of the Masonic Fraternity Brotherhood is supposed to be our specialty and I am very excited for this pilot project next year of how we can collaborate the, we can collaborate with face it, in really bringing home that Masonic experience, that brotherhood is a verb and it's just.
• 10:59
  Covered in authenticity.
• 11:01
  I think that's the exciting opportunity you have, is to take this built in network of people who all have some level of connection with one another and to go to another level and to create deeper connections, deeper bonds, and really the challenge to every guy who would be listening to this is it starts with you.
• 11:21
  It starts with your willingness to share something.
• 11:24
  It starts with your willingness to demonstrate to your fellow Mason that, yeah, I'm willing to take a risk here and talk about something that makes me a little uncomfortable.
• 11:33
  And then when guys receive that knowledge, then it's up to them to treat that guy with decency and respect and kindness.
• 11:39
  And quite frankly, then to reciprocate.
• 11:42
  That's how this works.
• 11:43
  I don't get to play all my cards and then you sit there and collect the chips because you saw what I was up on, you know, up against, right.
• 11:49
  We all gotta be part of this game.
• 11:51
  It's the only way it works.
• 11:54
  We hear that a lot at face.
• 11:55
  It, it's about, it's me too.
• 11:56
  Once someone has the, the courage to talk about some of their challenges, the person next to'em says, me too.
• 12:02
  So many times I've been to family functions and they say, or or gatherings, and they say, what do you do?
• 12:07
  Well, I work for a non-profit with men's mental health.
• 12:10
  Really?
• 12:10
  Can I talk to you about this?
• 12:11
  Can I talk, Hey, my cousin, is this, I mean, it gets to the point where you almost say, I don't do anything.
• 12:16
  I won lottery.
• 12:17
  I don't do they?
• 12:18
  But they go right in immediately.
• 12:20
  Absolutely.
• 12:22
  Absolutely.
• 12:22
  Because they feel like somebody may understand.
• 12:24
  Yep.
• 12:25
  And that's what so many men are looking for.
• 12:27
  They're looking to be heard.
• 12:28
  They're looking to be validated.
• 12:30
  Not to say that their poor behavior is correct and it's okay, but they're looking to say it's understand that they're not perfect too.
• 12:36
  They make mistakes just like the rest of us.
• 12:41
  This feels like a really good opportunity.
• 12:42
  It's almost a go-between, from going full-blown therapy going that route, but why does so many men struggle?
• 12:49
  To pursue that or to go see a quote unquote therapist.
• 12:54
  I think the model isn't really set up for how most of us guys are socialized or brought up.
• 12:59
  You know, this idea that I'm gonna go sit in a room and spend 50 minutes, just me talking, not getting any feedback, often not really knowing anything about the person across from me.
• 13:08
  It's very one sided.
• 13:09
  It's extremely one sided.
• 13:11
  Well, and a lot of times guys want.
• 13:13
  Answers Help me out.
• 13:15
  Point me in a direction.
• 13:16
  A therapist will say, so what do you think about that?
• 13:19
  That's true.
• 13:19
  Well, that's why I'm here.
• 13:20
  That's why I'm writing this check.
• 13:21
  Come on, you gotta, you gotta gimme something.
• 13:24
  That's why I made this appointment.
• 13:25
  And that's why, and that doesn't happen in those settings, but it does in a face group.
• 13:30
  Because now you're sitting with eight or 10 guys and they're generally all offering their feedback.
• 13:35
  They're all offering their opinions.
• 13:36
  Some are wanted, some are not.
• 13:38
  But they do.
• 13:38
  Some are good and some, some we say don't listen to that guy.
• 13:42
  But, and, and therapy has its role in all of this.
• 13:44
  It's just so many men go into it either under duress or they really don't even know why they're, they're, I think a lot of guys go to therapy looking for a friend, and your therapist isn't gonna be your friend.
• 13:55
  That's not how this sets up.
• 13:56
  That's not what they do.
• 14:00
  Dr.
• 14:00
  Mark Bracket recently asked, what are the top three characteristics of the people that we are just desperate to be around?
• 14:09
  There's three core characteristics and it's cross-cultural.
• 14:13
  This is fascinating.
• 14:14
  From us to England, to Spain, to Italy, to Australia, Hong Kong, to Costa Rica.
• 14:21
  Cultural differences amongst those surveyed, but zero cultural differences in the answers they gave.
• 14:27
  This is among 25,000 people surveyed, the big three, non-judgmental, good listener, empathy, or compassion.
• 14:40
  number one, non-judgmental.
• 14:42
  Everybody's just kind of burnt out from the judgment in our society.
• 14:46
  Can I just be myself?
• 14:48
  Can you just let me be who I want to be?
• 14:52
  Number two, a good listener.
• 14:54
  we are dying to be around.
• 14:56
  People who just listen, but not listen to retaliate.
• 15:01
  Listen to help you gain perspective, to sit down in the proverbial mud and let you vent.
• 15:09
  And the third, empathy and compassion.
• 15:13
  When I step back and think about that and imagine that if we had a society or a Masonic Lodge specifically, where we were striving to have people who were non-judgmental, who were good listeners, who showed empathy and compassion, that reassurance, I wanna live in that world, to be honest with you.
• 15:33
  I want to be a part of that lodge.
• 15:37
  And yet when we look at what traits people are trying to develop.
• 15:41
  It's charisma, it's brashness, wittiness, or quickness with words being the jokester.
• 15:46
  But that appears to not be the thing.
• 15:51
  and the question we keep asking in our masonic travels, do we know each other well enough to say, I'm going to sit here.
• 16:01
  I'm not going to judge.
• 16:04
  I'm going to be with you as needed.
• 16:08
  That is vulnerability, the impartiality, the empathy vulnerability, saying what's true, even when it's scary.
• 16:16
  The impartiality not trying to change the other person and the empathy sitting in that emotion without being captured by it.
• 16:28
  I asked the brothers in my travels regularly, what are we doing to create a lodge filled with people who have these characteristics?
• 16:34
  That, that is my vision and hope, How much might that align with the conversations you're having at Face It Foundation?
• 16:44
  A hundred percent.
• 16:45
  You've just described Face it.
• 16:47
  I mean really, and the, and the, and the key piece being the judgment part.
• 16:50
  Because whatever society is up to, that's hard.
• 16:53
  But look, there isn't a person walking the face of this earth who's over the age of, I don't know.
• 16:59
  15 who hasn't done something that they wish they hadn't, big, small or otherwise, that they carry around with them.
• 17:07
  And unless we can unburden ourself of this thing, meaning share it with others, talk about it, shine some light on it, get it out of our own, you know, our heads, you're just stuck, festering, and, and the minute you reveal something big.
• 17:22
  If people don't know how to receive that, I mean, even sometimes when they receive it in silence, you feel judged, but people need to be there to say to you, gosh, you're human and I'm sure that wasn't what you wanted, or that didn't go the way you had hoped it would, and you're still a really good person and you're more than your worst decision.
• 17:39
  I mean, I, I, I'm a guy who could feel your airways with bad choices.
• 17:42
  And you know, at the end of the day, the person who mattered the most to me was my wife, and that's the person I hurt the most.
• 17:49
  And she stayed with me for all these years because she said to me, you're so much more than those decisions you made 20 years ago.
• 17:55
  You're so much bigger than that.
• 17:57
  And that's if I didn't have that, what, what?
• 17:59
  What do we have?
• 18:01
  But isn't it amazing how.
• 18:02
  We take on that complex and we just, we wear that like an albatross.
• 18:06
  Those bad decisions have years gone by.
• 18:08
  It, I, I was just, uh, sharing with Bill my, my middle son who he's been digitizing our, our old VHS tapes.
• 18:16
  So now I can watch all these great things of my kids and, uh, my son.
• 18:20
  Gave me a flash drive with all these, these films from when the kids were little.
• 18:24
  And of course when I, the kids were little, I was disconnected.
• 18:26
  I was dealing with depression, I was dealing with substance use issues.
• 18:29
  And I started watching these videos and I started crying.
• 18:32
  I mean, I couldn't stop crying.
• 18:34
  And my wife was like, okay, what's going on?
• 18:36
  And I said, I was a horrible person.
• 18:38
  And she's like, wait a minute.
• 18:39
  Here you are in these.
• 18:41
  Movies, playing with the kids.
• 18:42
  You were there for the kids.
• 18:43
  Like, but all I could remember is the way I was all these years later, that's what I still, that's what still really grabbed me and kind of slapped me upside the head, you know?
• 18:52
  And that's the negative talk that so many of us specialize in.
• 18:56
  We just always find the bad stuff.
• 18:58
  I, I, we were talking earlier, one of my favorite movies of all time is Pretty Woman and Julie Roberts has a line.
• 19:03
  The hard stuff is easier to believe.
• 19:06
  That's what it is.
• 19:07
  Instead of all these great things, it's always that, you know, an example of non-judgmental.
• 19:12
  I think to even to face it, the number of guys that have shared stuff in group or in our group settings or our classes that they've never shared before.
• 19:21
  This was a safe place.
• 19:22
  They felt that they were not gonna be judged.
• 19:25
  So I could talk about this thing that I have never told anyone before.
• 19:29
  Nonjudgmental is really important.
• 19:31
  We, we, the famous story Bill always we share is we, we do this monthly men's breakfast where a guy gets up and shares his story and, and last year at this time, a guy got up, there's 50 guys at this breakfast, guy got up, he's in his mid to late fifties.
• 19:44
  Very successful married kids, just a great, great guy.
• 19:47
  And in the audience at breakfast, he probably knew 10, 11 guys, but there's still another 35, 45 guys there.
• 19:53
  He doesn't know.
• 19:54
  Gets up and shares a story about how he was sexually assaulted in high school, guy's been in therapy, couldn't find it, to tell his therapist this, didn't tell his wife.
• 20:04
  I mean, this was his secret that he had carried around for 30 plus years.
• 20:09
  Wow.
• 20:10
  And for him to stand up and do that, essentially to about 75% strangers, tells you that he felt safe.
• 20:19
  And that's what we're gonna create in these lodges, is this whole new level of safety where people can unburden themselves of these things they're carrying Sometimes that notion or concept of a safe space gets.
• 20:33
  Scoffed at, in today's world, maybe we picture a, a college student who can't deal with the news headlines and is it's, it's not a safe space.
• 20:41
  Right.
• 20:41
  This is, we're talking about a place where you can be your authentic self and talk about the tough stuff.
• 20:47
  And like you said earlier, it can be the full spectrum from just maybe general anxiety, right?
• 20:53
  Or social nerves getting into a social situation you're talking about.
• 20:59
  Subjects that cover the entire spectrum of what any given man could be struggling with or dealing with, or grappling with the emotional baggage.
• 21:10
  Yeah.
• 21:10
  You know, and you think about that concept of safe space and, and I certainly can, you know, you can hear the scoffing, but look, we're talking about your lodges and we're talking about a safe space that's gonna have to be earned.
• 21:20
  Like people are gonna have to demonstrate that it's safe to share stuff in here.
• 21:24
  People are gonna have to step up and really play a role.
• 21:26
  And if this is about brotherhood, then guys, this is what we do.
• 21:30
  We create an opportunity for people to share what they carry.
• 21:33
  if that doesn't resonate or if you don't see the need for that, then I would ask you to take a good, hard look in the mirror.
• 21:40
  'cause my guess is you're carrying some stuff around you'd like to share, but it's too deep, or you just don't mm-hmm.
• 21:45
  You don't feel safe.
• 21:46
  Yeah.
• 21:46
  I, I don't know.
• 21:46
  I, I'm kind of tired of the rhetoric when it comes to guys in their, their notion around talking and safe spaces and vulnerability.
• 21:55
  Look, guys, I, I know lots of guys who use that sort of rhetoric to avoid their problems.
• 22:01
  A lot of'em are dead'cause they took their lives.
• 22:03
  A lot of'em are divorced.
• 22:04
  A lot of'em have no relationship with their children.
• 22:07
  A lot of them have been unemployed.
• 22:09
  I mean, this isn't working you guys.
• 22:12
  This isn't rocket science.
• 22:14
  We're no different than than women.
• 22:16
  We need to share, we need to connect, we need to talk about what's going on in our lives.
• 22:23
  and that plays back.
• 22:24
  To something we've been talking about frequently in the last few years, or are we dedicating enough time to developing friendships and establishing that is that essential foundation of authentic brotherhood because the young men of today that are petitioning a Masonic lodge to join are expecting that.
• 22:43
  Mm-hmm.
• 22:44
  They're, they're.
• 22:45
  Counting on it, if not expecting it.
• 22:47
  we've met Masons who have either left or didn't wanna, you know, continue They, they weren't getting the ROI wasn't there, basically.
• 22:55
  Yeah, they can do the basic stuff, but they want to go deeper.
• 22:57
  Younger people now wanna go deeper.
• 23:00
  They do.
• 23:01
  We hear that a lot.
• 23:01
  I, if I join, I don't wanna just talk about the weather.
• 23:04
  Well, you're not gonna hear much about the weather unless it happens to be really bad that night.
• 23:07
  Right.
• 23:07
  Otherwise, you know, the part about what we were just talking about too is that, you know, you gotta be able to, if someone's gonna come and be vulnerable with you, you need to be vulnerable back.
• 23:16
  Yep.
• 23:16
  That's how it is.
• 23:17
  You know, for a lot of people like therapists, that's, that's a perception.
• 23:21
  You know, while I'm supposed to lay on this couch and tell all my deepest feelings, they're probably doodling little designs or making shopping lists.
• 23:28
  I mean, that's not true all the time, but it's a perception.
• 23:31
  So why am I gonna go there?
• 23:33
  That's why consistency comes in.
• 23:35
  I mean, these friends of yours, you have to work at it.
• 23:37
  Yeah.
• 23:37
  These relationships, they have, they're work, which we all know to be reality, but in this world of push button on our phone, yeah.
• 23:46
  Instantly get what we want.
• 23:48
  My wife ordered something late last night on Amazon.
• 23:51
  It was on our doorstep at 6:00 AM today.
• 23:53
  Right.
• 23:53
  We are, we're so accustomed to fast.
• 23:58
  Optimizing, but the friendships, the trust takes time.
• 24:05
  The Masonic Lodge was meant to be a men's support system from its inception.
• 24:11
  And if there's one thing I've learned in my travels doing this role full-time, that the foundation of a blue lodge is built on authentic brotherhood, being open, closeness and trust.
• 24:22
  Everything else sits on top of that.
• 24:26
  Sometimes we get a little preoccupied with putting our members through the paces of, of the joining process, and we learn all of these words, these long lectures, we recite them.
• 24:36
  It's a huge undertaking.
• 24:37
  The the effort is.
• 24:40
  Hard to put words to.
• 24:41
  Mm-hmm.
• 24:42
  But when we get past that, where is brother?
• 24:46
  Is brotherhood a buzzword or is it something we can feel in our hearts?
• 24:51
  Is brotherhoodhood a verb?
• 24:52
  Is it an action item?
• 24:54
  Well, and, and read brotherhood's, not for the faint of heart.
• 24:57
  you, you want this, you gotta get in there and roll up your sleeves and be honest.
• 25:03
  And it is hard and it is hard to reveal our, our blind spot or to see our blind spots or to talk about the things that we, you know, we've done.
• 25:11
  But look, I.
• 25:13
  Bill mentioned younger people want this.
• 25:15
  You know the thing, I've seen it face it and, and I know Bill has seen it as well.
• 25:18
  So do guys in their forties, their fifties, their sixties, their seventies, once they get a taste of it and once they realize that this is that piece of life I've been looking for, they want more of it.
• 25:28
  'cause it's connection.
• 25:30
  You know, you think about it, so many people have, you know, there are people out there that probably have 2,500 friends on Facebook.
• 25:35
  Oh yeah.
• 25:36
  But do they have that real friend they could reach out to and call when they really need that person?
• 25:41
  We say that all the time.
• 25:42
  Every guy needs a guy.
• 25:43
  Mm-hmm.
• 25:44
  You need that one friend that you can call at one in the morning and just say, I just, I need you.
• 25:51
  And that doesn't happen on Facebook or Instagram or whatever the other things you're on, mark.
• 25:57
  Well, but you're right.
• 25:57
  And it, it's that hollow connection I have.
• 26:01
  Text number, someone may have thousands of followers or friends on, on some platform or app, and yet why do I feel, why does that person feel like they're so disconnected?
• 26:12
  I feel like we're all guilty of it though, aren't we?
• 26:14
  When we maintain the face, how are you?
• 26:17
  I'm fine, I'm good.
• 26:18
  We, we nod and shake hands and, and do the bro hug, but yet underneath lurks all of the things we've described today, the, the full range anxiety, depression, addiction.
• 26:30
  Broken relationships, child rearing the death of a loved one.
• 26:34
  Maybe a health issue, maybe a, a doctor's prognosis.
• 26:37
  That's not good job loss.
• 26:39
  The, the difficult realities confronting us in one form or another every single day.
• 26:45
  And in today's world, we're constantly bombarded with information and comparisons and pressure to keep up.
• 26:53
  Social media shows us people that seem to be doing more, achieving more, living better.
• 26:59
  We, we know we're seeing the best version of people, but work expects us to be available at all times.
• 27:05
  Society convinces us if we're not constantly improving, that we're somehow failing.
• 27:11
  It's no wonder why so many of us feel like we are on the verge of a burnout.
• 27:18
  Life has become this endless series of inputs and expectations and demands that very, very few of us were ever taught how to manage.
• 27:27
  And I, and I think that's, you know, for so many of us guys, we were taught the opposite.
• 27:32
  And so for a lot of men, there's a lot of unlearning, right?
• 27:35
  There's an a lot of uncovering from that get over it, that move on, that don't talk about it.
• 27:41
  Because for years we've been living with those messages in our heads.
• 27:44
  So then some clown like me shows up and says, well, you should tell me what's going on.
• 27:47
  And the guy's like, now why would I wanna do that?
• 27:50
  And it takes time to build that connection and trust.
• 27:53
  and I know your listeners don't know me from a hole in the wall or Bill, but look, the richness of life, it's, it's right there.
• 28:01
  When we can just be honest and let the people love us just for who we are, rather than who we keep trying to be, who we think they want us to be.
• 28:09
  It's just easier.
• 28:10
  I was just talking to a friend of mine.
• 28:11
  We were talking about social media and all that, and basically he said every day it's about creating your brand.
• 28:17
  Oh God, yeah.
• 28:18
  Putting on an image, putting on a face, acting a certain way.
• 28:21
  Right.
• 28:21
  Where every day we're trying to create our own brand, and that's exhausting.
• 28:25
  I, I, I don't actually have any social media went off that stuff really Uhuh years ago and.
• 28:33
  I just, it, that comparison thing.
• 28:35
  I mean, I was certainly caught up in it and had to look a certain way.
• 28:38
  Now I pick clothes'cause I like'em now I, you know, I just, it's really been freeing for me to get off from that.
• 28:45
  but isn't that playing into the bigger challenge?
• 28:48
  To be your authentic self.
• 28:50
  That as humans we, we don't admire the people who appear perfect.
• 28:55
  We, we truly admire those that are imperfect and comfortable with it.
• 29:00
  the success of Faceit was built off the backs of Bill and I sharing that we both tried to take our lives.
• 29:06
  Not a whole lot perfect about that, and thousands of men later.
• 29:11
  It's been built from this notion that we were broken people.
• 29:16
  How do we help each other?
• 29:17
  That's what it is, you know?
• 29:19
  And some of those things to sit down and no matter how, how well you know someone to say, you know what?
• 29:23
  I don't know about a year ago I tried to kill myself.
• 29:26
  I mean, who do you say that to?
• 29:28
  Right?
• 29:28
  That's a hard conversation to have.
• 29:29
  That's really challenging, but it's so freeing.
• 29:33
  Will Smith said in one of his talks, just on the other side of terror's, life's greatest moments, man, I cannot tell this person this.
• 29:41
  I just can't.
• 29:41
  Do you know what?
• 29:42
  Maybe if I do, it'll be okay.
• 29:44
  You share that story or that challenge you're dealing with and you realize that person understands they're not judgmental and man, I feel a little more free.
• 29:56
  I recently spoke at a lodge and talked about some of these exact things about authenticity and brotherhood and opening up to one another.
• 30:04
  That vulnerability is really important and a, a member of this lodge pulled me aside afterwards and said, what about you?
• 30:16
  You seem like you have it all together.
• 30:19
  And I told him, well, we actually scheduled lunch and got together and I told him my story 10 years ago my life fell apart.
• 30:29
  I was really frustrated that I had all of these friends and specifically lodge brothers, and I didn't feel comfortable reaching out to a single one.
• 30:39
  Fell into a dark, dark spot in my mind.
• 30:43
  Functioning alcoholism.
• 30:47
  When it's a prescription, it's not abuse, right?
• 30:49
  The doctor says it's okay.
• 30:51
  We all told ourselves that before I, I held onto this for weeks, turned into months, and I remember walking home, I was living in Boston at the time and I remember thinking I needed to reach out to someone and I reached out to John GaN.
• 31:10
  And said, Hey, hey man, I, I don't, I know this is probably out of the blue, but he, he knew, he, he said, here's a resource you should check out called the Faceit Foundation.
• 31:21
  that led me to.
• 31:23
  Further conversations to confront some of the challenges that I had too.
• 31:27
  We all, like you said, we all have something.
• 31:29
  Absolutely.
• 31:30
  And the guy that looks like he's got it together might be terrified.
• 31:33
  Underneath might be, is obviously dealing with something across the spectrum of life's challenges.
• 31:40
  And this is what we want to capture in the Blue Lodge experience for Freemasons that we we're so good at saying all the words, brotherhood.
• 31:50
  Conciliated true friendship among those who might otherwise have remained at a perpetual distance.
• 31:55
  One of my favorite lines, but are we just saying the words?
• 31:59
  Are we opening our hearts and on this journey of life together?
• 32:05
  it is the work of it, and it's the effort to build connection, build relationships, you know, and, and even now, we can use the right buzzwords about being authentic and mindful and present well.
• 32:16
  You still gotta do the work.
• 32:17
  You still gotta show up, you still gotta share.
• 32:19
  You still gotta be part of what's going on around you.
• 32:23
  Positive reinforcement is needed in our lives, and men don't need that much.
• 32:30
  But why do we give so little For the masons that are listening to this, We talk about the spreading the cement of brotherly love.
• 32:39
  That cement is not a magnet, but it does help keep things together.
• 32:47
  Be your authentic self.
• 32:48
  That's all I can say and I'm, I'm so excited for 2026 as we embark on this pilot program with some specific lodges.
• 32:56
  If any brothers are listening today and are interested in learning more of what that will look like, it's still taking shape, but I will put my contact information in the bio when this goes live.
• 33:08
  Where should someone go to find you?
• 33:10
  So they can find us at, at uh, www.faceitfoundation.org.
• 33:15
  They can email bill or myself at info@faceitfoundation.org and face.
• 33:21
  It's a small, it's a small business.
• 33:23
  It's Bill and I.
• 33:24
  So we will get these notes, we will get your emails, um, and we will respond.
• 33:29
  You know, we're not gonna put you into some queue and send you an AI automated response.
• 33:32
  We'll, we'll, you'll hear from one of us.
• 33:35
  We will connect with you and, and, uh, we'll hear your story.
• 33:41
  bill, if a stranger had to live your life for 24 hours, what would they probably screw up the most?
• 33:49
  Wow.
• 33:50
  What would they screw up the most?
• 33:52
  I think they would screw up my routine.
• 33:54
  Yeah, yeah.
• 33:54
  I'm a very routine, I'm darn near OCD type thing.
• 33:58
  Do tell, and they would not realize, you need to take your Tylenol PM at seven, so then by eight o'clock you're ready for bed and by eight 15 you're sleeping already.
• 34:06
  They would probably wanna have more of a life than I would.
• 34:09
  I do so.
• 34:10
  So yeah, that's probably what they'd screw up is my routine.
• 34:14
  Mark, what cover song do you prefer over the original.
• 34:18
  What cover song do I prefer?
• 34:21
  Over the original I shot the Sheriff.
• 34:27
  You like Clapton better?
• 34:28
  Yep.
• 34:29
  I'm a Clapton guy.
• 34:30
  Yeah.
• 34:30
  My, my wife and I, um, our second dance at, at our, our our, uh, wedding was wonderful tonight.
• 34:36
  I love, I love Clapton.
• 34:40
  Bill, what regionalism do you use that gives away where you're from when you travel?
• 34:45
  How do they know you're from?
• 34:47
  Uh, when, whenever I'm traveling and people start talking, I usually talk about food.
• 34:51
  Yeah.
• 34:51
  And when you start talking about hot dishes and things like that, they know what part of the country you're from.
• 34:57
  When you talk about tater tot hot dish or something like that, you, you've, you've, you've labeled yourself.
• 35:03
  what did you regularly eat as a kid that you wouldn't touch now?
• 35:06
  You know what?
• 35:07
  I was, uh, it was almost abuse.
• 35:09
  I was forced to eat sauerkraut.
• 35:12
  Oh God.
• 35:12
  I know.
• 35:13
  And, uh, it was spare ribs and sauerkraut and it was flopped on my plate and I was supposed to eat it, and I did for a while.
• 35:20
  Eventually, I would get up and go over to the sink and rinse the meat off in the, in the sink to get that stingy Bernie nasty taste off, but sauerkraut.
• 35:29
  Now people have it on hotdog and all.
• 35:31
  I just see it and it's just like, oh, don't, don't, I, I, I need to lay down.
• 35:35
  Interesting.
• 35:36
  I love sauerkraut.
• 35:37
  I didn't know that.
• 35:37
  Oh, that's why we're different.
• 35:40
  Here's one for both of you.
• 35:41
  Mark you Leadoff.
• 35:42
  What has been your favorite age?
• 35:45
  my favorite age, well, my thirties were a go of things.
• 35:49
  you know, I really, I really liked 50.
• 35:53
  I'll be, I'll be 58 on my next birthday, but 50 was a real turning point for me.
• 35:58
  It might've been the, it might've been the hardest, hardest year of my life.
• 36:01
  Oh, so.
• 36:02
  Yeah, a lot of things that I needed to deal with got dealt with and they had been burning my soul in, in ways that, uh, you know, I needed to address and, and I kind of turned 50 and I had a good, hard conversation with the God I believe in, and went to work on some stuff.
• 36:20
  Yeah.
• 36:20
  Ironically, I'm gonna say the same thing in my fifties.
• 36:23
  Um, I can tell you now as my sixties, life is a lot harder physically.
• 36:27
  Sure.
• 36:27
  So I didn't, I didn't have some of those challenges when I was 50, you know, early in life.
• 36:31
  I was always struggling looking for that, that I, I mentioned earlier about per, uh, the movie Pretty Woman.
• 36:37
  I always wanted to be Edward Lewis.
• 36:40
  This rich buying business, private jet, everything else.
• 36:43
  So that's kind of where I lived.
• 36:44
  My whole younger life is gearing for that.
• 36:47
  And it wasn't until my fifties where I realized that wasn't gonna happen and I should just be happy with what I have.
• 36:53
  And I have plenty.
• 36:54
  it's a realization that this is a good part of my life right now.
• 36:57
  So that's in my fifties, I'm listening to both of you thinking that's exactly how I feel.
• 37:02
  Seriously.
• 37:03
  Mm-hmm.
• 37:04
  I don't know what it is about being.
• 37:06
  Of course when I turned 50, I was thinking, oh my God, I remember when dad was 50 and he seemed like ancient grains at the time, but the perspective and, and maybe priorities of shaken out better.
• 37:16
  Well, there's a little and there's a little freedom of letting go.
• 37:18
  Mm-hmm.
• 37:18
  Yeah.
• 37:19
  I mean, I, I hear you letting Bill, I hear you letting go of this image that you tried to live up to.
• 37:23
  I hear myself letting go of just, you know, some patterns and themes in my life that were just hurting me and just finally letting go.
• 37:32
  It's about admiring the people who are imperfect and comfortable with it.
• 37:36
  Maybe over 50 is a time when you say, you know what?
• 37:39
  I can't live up to right X, Y, or Z, and I really don't care.
• 37:43
  This is who I am and I'm gonna work on me.
• 37:45
  Yep.
• 37:46
  I, I think that's a big part of it.
• 37:47
  I've often been referred to as a grumpy old man, even when I was younger, but as I've got into my fifties, I.
• 37:53
  There are things that just, it's priorities.
• 37:54
  Things just didn't matter to me anymore, and it maybe come across as someone who's crotchety or something, but I'm not just gonna deal with some of the crap that I dealt with when I was younger.
• 38:03
  Right.
• 38:03
  Yeah.
• 38:05
  Mark, can you describe yourself in three words?
• 38:09
  no.
• 38:10
  How about four?
• 38:11
  Three words?
• 38:12
  Three.
• 38:12
  Three.
• 38:12
  Only.
• 38:14
  Let's f and go.
• 38:16
  Oh sure.
• 38:17
  Now it comes to me.
• 38:18
  Um, keep on working on yourself or on on myself.
• 38:25
  Yeah.
• 38:25
  Yeah.
• 38:25
  I gotta keep working because if we don't.
• 38:29
  We, that's bad.
• 38:30
  We always, you know, people have faced, a lot of guys wanna know kind of, when am I gonna feel better?
• 38:34
  When am I done with this depression stuff or anxiety stuff?
• 38:37
  When are you gonna change me?
• 38:38
  Yeah.
• 38:38
  Yep.
• 38:39
  Yeah.
• 38:39
  Probably at a funeral.
• 38:41
  So we gotta keep working, and that's my message too, to me, myself.
• 38:45
  I gotta keep working at this.
• 38:47
  The key to personal growth is that it's an infinite pursuit.
• 38:51
  We're not gonna have a light bulb moment and say, well there I did it.
• 38:54
  Now I can move on to the next thing.
• 38:56
  It's ongoing, but, but each and every time that light bulb does flicker and we learn something, the next thing you learn is that much richer.
• 39:06
  And it really is.
• 39:08
  This stuff does build on itself and I think that's important to take away.
• 39:11
  I agree.
• 39:12
  We're never done.
• 39:13
  And when I say, you know, my, you know, let's go.
• 39:16
  Let's keep working, let's keep pushing.
• 39:18
  There's so much more out there.
• 39:20
  That doesn't mean attain more, it doesn't mean I want a bigger house, I want another car.
• 39:24
  I need the next promotion.
• 39:26
  It means I wanna connect with the next person that I meet and find a way to learn from them and give them something I, I am blown away by the depth of relationships.
• 39:36
  We've watched guys build it.
• 39:38
  It is incredible and I.
• 39:40
  Not to, not to be a salesman here on our, our upcoming pilot project, but this is what's in front of the, the, the, the lodges.
• 39:46
  With this opportunity, I am beyond excited about the pilot program coming in 2026.
• 39:54
  You guys may not be Brother Masons, but you are my brother and the, the connection that we've built in talking about these things.
• 40:02
  Over the last couple of years.
• 40:03
  I, I'm just, I'm so ready to go.
• 40:05
  Yeah, let's go.
• 40:06
  Yeah.
• 40:06
  I feel the same way.
• 40:07
  I feel the same way.
• 40:08
  I'm excited to work with you.
• 40:09
  I'm excited to work with the other guys and, and, super grateful to the Masons.
• 40:12
  Super grateful to Grand Lodge.
• 40:14
  Super grateful to charities.
• 40:16
  I mean, this doesn't happen without their support.
• 40:18
  We're taking time and energy from our organization and you guys are right there to help pick up that slack for us.
• 40:23
  And I did, man.
• 40:24
  It means the world to us.
• 40:27
  Face it foundation.org.
• 40:30
  For more info.
• 40:32
  Mark Meyer.
• 40:33
  Bill Deck.
• 40:33
  Thanks again for being with me today.
• 40:35
  Appreciate you guys.
• 40:36
  Thank you.
• 40:36
  Our pleasure.