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What Can Golf Teach Us About Production Music? · 52 Cues - A Production Music and Sync Podcast

• 0:30
  Shane: When I first started production music, it was daunting.
• 0:31
  Shane: I mean, what's velocity, you know, what's expression, what's dynamics, what is, you know, sustain and all these different kinds of all of these things that go on within, through there, you know, I just want to be able to hit the center of the club face.
• 0:44
  Shane: I just want to be able to hit the ball with the club.
• 0:47
  Shane: You know and you're wanting me to do all this other stuff over here, you know?
• 0:50
  Shane: Yeah, so absolutely, absolutely, you know.
• 0:53
  Shane: Take the time to learn what you have and then you can invest into the more expensive stuff.
• 0:58
  Shane: What is happening, everybody?
• 1:00
  Dave: And welcome back to another episode of the 52 Qs Podcast, your weekly dose of all things production and library music.
• 1:06
  Dave: Whether you're simply curious about the sink industry or wanting to write better Qs, or maybe you're ready to pitch to publishers, I promise you, you are in the right place.
• 1:16
  Dave: Or maybe you're ready to pitch to publishers?
• 1:25
  Dave: You, you are in the right place.
• 1:27
  Dave: My name is Dave Croff and it is so good to be with you today.
• 1:30
  Dave: And if you find this video helpful, then why don't you give it a thumbs up here on YouTube or a five-star review in your podcast app?
• 1:37
  Dave: And please be sure to subscribe, because I post content about library music every single week.
• 1:42
  Dave: Today's episode wouldn't be possible without the incredible support of our member subscribers at 52Qs, who not only keep the community alive and thriving, but as members they get access to extra features like workshops, live streams, office hours, queue breakdowns, zoom feedback sessions, hundreds of hours of video archives and opportunities to submit to real music library.
• 2:05
  Dave: So if you're ready to get started and make that serious push into a career in production music, then why don't you head over to 52Qscom?
• 2:14
  Dave: It's free to join and membership start at around four bucks a month.
• 2:18
  Dave: So it is week four, 2024.
• 2:21
  Dave: I hope that you are having a really good week so far.
• 2:25
  Dave: And how did my week go?
• 2:27
  Dave: Well, I'm gonna tell a little story.
• 2:30
  Dave: You know, I drink coffee all the time and as I was coming up to film this podcast intro here, I was running up the stairs and my coffee started sloshing around and my immediate reaction was to compensate.
• 2:47
  Dave: Oh, it's sloshing this way, so I'm gonna slosh that way.
• 2:50
  Dave: Oh, it's sloshing this way, so I'm gonna slosh that way.
• 2:52
  Dave: I was just going up the stairs too fast and no amount of compensating for the sloshing coffee in my mug would keep it from spilling.
• 3:05
  Dave: In fact, I felt like every time I tried to compensate, I made things worse.
• 3:11
  Dave: The coffee inside just sloshed around even more, and it wasn't until I stopped.
• 3:19
  Dave: It wasn't until I stopped walking up the stairs.
• 3:22
  Dave: I stopped trying to compensate.
• 3:25
  Dave: I just let things settle, that the coffee settled down and I was able to walk up the stairs without spilling it over everything and not make a complete mess of things, and I think that's a really good metaphor to keep in mind If you are going, going, going and you feel like I'm overcorrecting and it's not going well and things are kind of going out of control.
• 3:50
  Dave: Instead of trying to fix them, sometimes the best thing you can do is just breathe, take a breath, pause, let things settle down, let the coffee in the mug of your life settle down, and then you can start again.
• 4:08
  Dave: And so that was just a reminder of what I need to do, especially this week, especially wrapping up an album.
• 4:16
  Dave: We're going to take a listen to one of my Expedition 52 cues, which is called Cora the Explorer, and but I'm wrapping up this album.
• 4:26
  Dave: I've got a lot of other albums kind of on deck that I need to get going and part of me wants to like go, go, go, get going, get going.
• 4:33
  Dave: But if I just pause, relax, take a big breath, then I'm able to move forward and not have things feeling like they're teetering out of control.
• 4:45
  Dave: I don't know that, like I said, this just kind of hit me as I was coming up up to record here and that's how it's going.
• 4:52
  Dave: I'm purposefully relaxing, relaxing, which brings me to my cue for this week.
• 5:02
  Dave: This was my week four submission for Expedition 52, and if you're watching this Expedition 52, we've gone up the mountain.
• 5:09
  Dave: We are not taking any more climbers for the expedition.
• 5:12
  Dave: If there is enough interest we might start an expedition in July to have a mid-year expedition, but right now we've got, I think, 49 folks in the group and we are writing every single week, and so if you would like to sign up for the mailing list and get notified when the next expedition leaves up the mountain, then head over to Expedition52.com and you can check that out.
• 5:39
  Dave: Like I said, the cue that I want to show for you today is called Cora the Explorer, and Cora is an African stringed instrument and obviously the pun is Dora the Explorer, and so it features Cora and other authentic African instrument, african percussion instruments.
• 6:03
  Dave: I created some shakers and we have some Maremba and Kalimba and Ngoni, which is kind of like a banjo sounding guitar type of instrument, but let's take a listen to Cora the Explorer.
• 6:15
  Dave: So that was Korra the Explorer and if you want to see a breakdown of that, I will be putting that up for the family and friends subscribers over at 52Q's a complete Q breakdown including the sounds I used and the compositional process that went through all of that.
• 8:33
  Dave: I am so happy to welcome to the podcast Mr Shane Jensen, who is not only a longtime supporter of 52Q's, I've had the honestly the privilege of working with him for wow, going on, going on two years now, I think I think it's been and through coaching and mentoring.
• 8:53
  Dave: And Shane just isn't you know, you're just a person who showed up one day wanting to learn production music.
• 9:00
  Dave: He is an accomplished music director, he is a lifelong musician and in a former life was a professional golfer, and so I wanted to bring Shane on to the podcast today to talk about how these other professional aspects dovetail into the world of production music and, specifically, being a professional athlete, specifically being a professional golfer.
• 9:25
  Dave: But, shane, thank you so much for joining us and welcome to the 52Q's podcast.
• 9:30
  Shane: Thank you, Dave.
• 9:30
  Shane: Thank you for having me so much.
• 9:31
  Dave: I'm really looking forward to our discussion today, yeah, and I always look forward to our discussions.
• 9:36
  Dave: I've lost track the number of times that a coaching session has kind of turned into, you know, just either talking life or talking like conceptual things will yeah, we have.
• 9:46
  Dave: We'll get to the Q's in a minute.
• 9:48
  Dave: But talking about career and creativity, and I love the fact that you are always thinking you are, you're challenging, and what I mean by that is you're challenging me.
• 10:01
  Dave: You're not just taking here do this at face value, because I'm Dave and Dave says to do it, but you're always questioning, you're always pushing back and this this feels super, like I don't mean this.
• 10:12
  Dave: It's really rewarding for me as a teacher and a coach and a mentor, because it tells me that you're not just taking things that kind of face value on a surface level, but you're really absorbing them, you're processing them.
• 10:27
  Dave: And there are things that you've brought and I'm like I disagree and you're like, well, that's okay, because I believe in this.
• 10:35
  Dave: Is that that idea of kind of being a lifelong learner and kind of questioning?
• 10:42
  Dave: Has that always been just part of who you were?
• 10:46
  Shane: Dave, I think I think so.
• 10:47
  Shane: You know, I started, you know, piano lessons when I was probably seven years old and it coincided with that actually started golf as well, and so I have always had this thirst for knowledge and I've always tried to do as much reading as I can and improving.
• 11:03
  Shane: And I think, as I've gotten older I realized that, you know, learning is a lifelong process that it just never ends.
• 11:10
  Shane: You know, you may achieve accolades or whatever it is you know maybe these pinnacles that we put ourselves upon, but really there's so much to learn, especially in music and golf.
• 11:21
  Shane: The depth of the knowledge is so deep I mean there's no way to encompass all of it within one lifetime.
• 11:28
  Shane: And so I think, that's what spurs me forward.
• 11:30
  Dave: And I got to tell you that is, for me, being a teacher, that is teacher fuel.
• 11:34
  Dave: Like if I have a student who I know is just absorbing everything and like more, just give me more, just give me more.
• 11:41
  Dave: You're like you're at a buffet, you know, and you got your play, the super pile of high, and you're like I got room over here for more.
• 11:47
  Dave: And for me as a teacher, I can't describe how rewarding that is.
• 11:52
  Dave: So I just thank you, man.
• 11:54
  Dave: Thank you for all of your support and for being such a willing participant and an open vessel, if you will, if that's not too weird or whatever, absolutely.
• 12:06
  Shane: And I think that I think that, that I think that one of the reasons why we kind of gelled is because I view you have the heart of a teacher, and so you know, I've always said, no matter whether it's music or golf, you have to find someone who has achieved at a high level they may not be achieving now at a high level, but has achieved at some point in their life at a high level and cleave upon to them, to, you know, absorb the knowledge that they actually have.
• 12:28
  Shane: And you are such an individual Now you're at the height of your game and I'm sure that you will probably go higher, but I can't underestimate the value that you have added to my journey in the production music space.
• 12:41
  Dave: Well, thank you so much.
• 12:42
  Dave: I really really appreciate the kind words and anytime I see like a coaching session pop up, I'm like all right, this is.
• 12:47
  Dave: And we always go long, you know, and it's just really super rewarding.
• 12:51
  Dave: So I just wanted to start out by just acknowledging that and just and just thank you.
• 12:55
  Dave: And again, the one of the big reasons I wanted to have you on is that you've achieved success as a musician, as a music director.
• 13:03
  Dave: You know you've got published arrangements, you know that somebody could right now go and buy your accomplished pianist.
• 13:10
  Dave: You're a theater musician, you're music director at your church.
• 13:13
  Dave: But even before all of that, like I said in the intro, in a former life you are a professional golfer and I know you still play.
• 13:23
  Dave: How much do do you play these days?
• 13:27
  Shane: Well, I play.
• 13:28
  Shane: I try to play two times a week, but this last time, this last week, I actually got to play three times this last week because of the holiday, and so I definitely try to play two times a week at minimum.
• 13:40
  Dave: Now, at the height of you being a professional golfer, how much, how much were you playing?
• 13:47
  Shane: I was probably playing, you know, when I was growing up I would play every day.
• 13:51
  Shane: In the summers I'd probably play 36 holes in the in the in the course of a day.
• 13:54
  Shane: I was probably playing between 300 to 310 times a year.
• 13:58
  Shane: So, and out on the golf course and practicing and stuff like that.
• 14:02
  Shane: So it is.
• 14:03
  Shane: It was a big part of my life for a long time.
• 14:06
  Dave: Well now, what got you into being a golfer and how did you achieve like professional success?
• 14:15
  Dave: Like I know the path in music, but I would.
• 14:18
  Dave: How do you even get started at that?
• 14:21
  Shane: So I was.
• 14:21
  Shane: I was fortunate enough that my family was members of a couple of country clubs and we were growing up in Denver, and so that was my first introduction to that, and it happened when I was about seven years old, and golf is one of those sports that it takes a long time to really master.
• 14:38
  Shane: I was fortunate to be able to take lessons and group lessons and be a part of that, and so I was able to accelerate my growth a little bit more by taking those lessons, and as a junior I had some success.
• 14:51
  Shane: I won the club championship, the junior club championship at our home course, and then I went on and played in some professional tournaments, you know when I, when I got a little bit older, and finally I decided, you know, golf is one of those games where you've got to be really, really good to play like Tiger Woods and Rory Macro I mean, those guys are just so far out of and so I decided it's kind of like Tiger Woods and Rory Macro is like what we might term the film composers.
• 15:22
  Shane: And then I moved over into the, the club running and the managing golf courses and stuff like that area, which would be more like the production music side, there's still one part of the whole different kind of thing.
• 15:36
  Shane: And so I did that, moved down to South Florida, worked for a number of years down in South Florida, you know, still was playing and everything like that, and went through there.
• 15:45
  Shane: The PGA has an extensive training program that we go through where you're talking about golf cart maintenance and and food and beverage and all these different kinds of things while trying to still keep your game active.
• 15:57
  Shane: So that's how.
• 15:59
  Shane: That's how I get was when I was young.
• 16:00
  Shane: My parents really instilled into me that my parents never forced me to do anything like my brother, you know, really can't hit a golf ball, you know.
• 16:08
  Shane: But he had the same opportunities that I did.
• 16:11
  Shane: He just chose to go a different direction.
• 16:13
  Shane: He had the long hair and listened to Metallica and played.
• 16:16
  Dave: Yeah, I feel like me and your brother were getting along, because I am not a fan of golf.
• 16:21
  Dave: I've tried it Now disc golf or frisbee golf or frulf and I know ball golfers have a thing against like disc golfers even profaning the word golf.
• 16:32
  Dave: But I'm really terrible at it and, as anybody who's known me for long knows, I do not like doing things I'm really bad at.
• 16:41
  Dave: It's why I play games on easy mode.
• 16:43
  Dave: We've talked about that on the podcast, but I've not had any luck as a golfer because it didn't come naturally to me.
• 16:51
  Dave: I was really terrible at it.
• 16:53
  Dave: But as I'm thinking about it and having talked to you, knowing how much golf you played, knowing about the amount of time you put in from a very young age, there is a ton of overlap there.
• 17:07
  Dave: Let me say it differently there are a ton of parallels between pursuing golf either professionally or as a hobby, or even just as a pro-am or whatever.
• 17:18
  Dave: There's a ton of parallels between golf and production music and when we were talking before we started, we unpacked like five areas that golf can help you, or the parallels between golf and production music specifically.
• 17:38
  Dave: So the first thing and I'm going to hand it over to you, the first is the toolbox, the tools you use.
• 17:47
  Shane: Yeah, absolutely Much like in production music.
• 17:52
  Shane: Golf equipment is extremely expensive and I know that you did that podcast about that Spitfire violins which are like 400 or something odd dollars, but in the golf space you could buy one club for like $700.
• 18:05
  Shane: And that's just like a driver, and they're constantly changing this technology.
• 18:09
  Shane: But what I have found is that you have 14 clubs in your bag and all of them serve a different purpose, but all of them can be used in a variety of different ways, and so you have to learn how to use each one of the club, whether it be like swinging with less wrist or with more wrist.
• 18:27
  Shane: And so I would equate this to a sound library where you're using the mod wheel and you're using the CC1 or the CC11 in order to get the most out of what you have already that's in your bag.
• 18:40
  Shane: Often there's this thing that, oh, I've got to go out and get this new club because it's really going to improve my game.
• 18:46
  Shane: But what we have found in the golf space is that over the last 20, 25 years, with all of this advancement in technology, the average golf handicap has not gone down.
• 18:56
  Shane: It's stayed relatively the same.
• 18:58
  Dave: Okay, I'm sorry, I'm going to put a bit.
• 19:00
  Dave: I want to pause.
• 19:01
  Dave: What is a golf handicap?
• 19:02
  Dave: Admittedly, I have no idea what that means.
• 19:05
  Shane: So, in order to be fair on a golf course, we get a handicap and that's in the simplest of terms.
• 19:12
  Shane: It's not really, but it would be an average of the scores that you shoot.
• 19:16
  Shane: So let's say that you shoot an 80, you average about an 80.
• 19:21
  Shane: Your handicap is probably going to be around a six or a seven, the higher your number.
• 19:25
  Shane: If you shoot a 90, it's probably going to be around an 18 to a 20, which is about the average golf handicap between 18 to 20.
• 19:32
  Dave: And it's used to offset or basically kind of equalize scores Equalize the playing field.
• 19:39
  Shane: So someone who doesn't have the experience that I have it would be very difficult to beat me.
• 19:44
  Shane: Now I'm all for that because that helps pay a mortgage or something like that from the bets that we do on the golf course.
• 19:50
  Shane: But a lot of people don't like just to donate money to the Shane Jensen mortgage fund.
• 19:54
  Shane: So that's why we have handicaps is to kind of equal or level the playing field.
• 20:01
  Shane: And they have this in tennis.
• 20:03
  Shane: There's different levels of tennis players, like three point whatever, and so they have this in tennis as well.
• 20:09
  Shane: So it's not unusual in physical sports to have a handicap.
• 20:14
  Dave: Got you, got you.
• 20:14
  Dave: They're just kind of some gimme points, because you are not as good as I am and otherwise if you don't want to spend the time practicing to become as good as I am Right.
• 20:23
  Dave: The 10,000 hours it takes.
• 20:25
  Dave: Yeah, okay All right, I appreciate that.
• 20:26
  Dave: I didn't mean to totally interrupt, but I imagine I'm going to get some golf terms.
• 20:31
  Dave: But today I learned what a handicap was.
• 20:36
  Shane: So the standard way that people do things now is they oh I'm going to go buy this new driver and it's going to cut me, it's going to cut my handicap by 12 or 13 strokes, I'm just going to play really good.
• 20:46
  Shane: And that's really not the case, and we've seen that through the handicaps not really moving, the average handicap not really moving over the last all of these decades of game improvement that we had over there.
• 20:57
  Shane: And so I can play because I have a firm foundation.
• 21:02
  Shane: I can play a club that I played 25 years ago and still beat the guys who are playing the new clubs that they're doing right now, the $700 clubs.
• 21:11
  Dave: Yes, the $700 clubs.
• 21:14
  Shane: So the takeaway is that you really have to learn how to use the clubs, that you use the clubs that you have in a proficient manner, and then maybe you might go buy some kind of technology that's going to help you, maybe just further that down the road, but it can't be the starting point.
• 21:31
  Shane: So you know, when I was, when I was first starting out in production music, you know of course I all want to have the Berlin's and the orchestral tools and all these different kinds of things, but you know, for me it just didn't really add up because I wasn't proficient in some of the other things that could improve this quality of the sound that I had.
• 21:48
  Shane: So I equated.
• 21:50
  Shane: You know, now that Black Friday has passed, we all have these things, that we want to buy, these new clubs and these new sound libraries, but it takes a lot of restraint to say, ok, I need to work on some fundamentals first.
• 22:02
  Dave: And then usually I have.
• 22:03
  Dave: But I imagine, you know, the marketing pushes in pretty hard.
• 22:07
  Dave: You know, as we're recording this, like Black Friday just happened and the blitz, that all out marketing blitz, and I admit I was like oh, drawing in the whole FOMO, and I feel like, oh, if I get, just if I finally pull the trigger on Diva, then this will happen.
• 22:24
  Dave: That happens just as much in the golf industry, doesn't it?
• 22:27
  Shane: Oh, absolutely.
• 22:28
  Shane: I mean, you see, you see a television advertisement with Tiger Woods or Rory McElroy or John Rahm or Dustin Johnson, and they're blasting it out there 320 yards.
• 22:38
  Shane: And you're thinking to myself oh my gosh, if I only had that club, I could hit it 320 yards.
• 22:43
  Dave: Because it's the club, not the 80 hours a week on the course.
• 22:47
  Dave: Yes, absolutely.
• 22:50
  Shane: That's the marketing and that is, you know, that's what makes golf such a.
• 22:53
  Shane: You know, the marketing is just.
• 22:55
  Shane: You know, you get these players who achieve at a high level and people think that they're going to have the same results they should, but disclaimer results, not.
• 23:05
  Shane: It's like a weight loss supplement.
• 23:07
  Shane: Yes, exactly, no, exactly.
• 23:10
  Dave: Yeah, I don't disagree with that.
• 23:11
  Dave: I think there are a lot of industries which kind of overpromise and underdeliver, but that's for another, that's another topic.
• 23:17
  Dave: So you don't need every new fancy tool, you don't need every new club, you don't need every library and knowing the tools that you do have right.
• 23:26
  Dave: So now do you need, like when I was younger, my dad had a set of clubs and they were old, they were like really old, and some of them were bent and all of that, and we just had a handful, like there were maybe a couple of irons, a couple of woods.
• 23:39
  Dave: Does it sound like I know what I'm talking about?
• 23:41
  Dave: I barely know what I'm talking about.
• 23:42
  Dave: And then there was a wedge and a putter and so we basically used, like, the wood to tee off, the iron to do mid game and the putter right, but we didn't have all of the different variants of each one of those because, like you said, you can do multiple things with the same club, and is that part of just the technique or just overcoming the disadvantage that an improper club, is this making any sense?
• 24:11
  Shane: Yeah, well, I will say I have 14 clubs in my bag.
• 24:14
  Shane: That's the maximum allowed by the USGA, and of those 14 clubs I may only use eight in the course of a round.
• 24:22
  Shane: So there are some clubs that I'm not really using, but I need to have them because I may use a different set of clubs for the next eight.
• 24:30
  Shane: So 14 is your starting base of where you realistically should be.
• 24:34
  Shane: And so then you say, ok, well, I need to hit this lower, or I need to hit this higher, or I need to have more spin, or I need to have less spin.
• 24:43
  Shane: And so using the clubs in order to produce different shots really becomes paramount to be able to score well.
• 24:53
  Shane: So knowing how to use your toolbox really enhances your ability to be able to score well.
• 25:00
  Dave: But even like what you're talking about, for me I think you're talking about spin and stuff I'm like, I don't know, I just want to hit a straight line, Right.
• 25:06
  Dave: I just want to not go in the trees.
• 25:07
  Dave: That's where my skill set is, and so maybe if you're thinking about a new sample library, you know.
• 25:13
  Dave: It's like you know what I'm still working on, like luffs and loudness, and I'm balancing like how to spell chords.
• 25:19
  Dave: I don't need to get into the weeds.
• 25:21
  Dave: Hey see, get into the weeds with all of this.
• 25:24
  Dave: Other things that don't apply to me yet.
• 25:27
  Shane: Absolutely, that's absolutely correct.
• 25:29
  Shane: I mean, when I first started production music, it was daunting.
• 25:32
  Shane: I mean, what's velocity, what's expression, what's dynamics, what is sustained and all these different kinds of all of these things that go on within through there?
• 25:42
  Shane: I just want to be able to hit the center of the club face.
• 25:44
  Shane: So I just want to be able to hit the ball with the club.
• 25:46
  Shane: And you're wanting me to do all this other stuff over here?
• 25:49
  Shane: Yeah.
• 25:49
  Dave: You know yeah.
• 25:52
  Shane: So, absolutely, absolutely, take the time to learn what you have, and then you can invest in.
• 25:57
  Dave: Okay, so that is a point one.
• 25:59
  Dave: The toolbox using the tools.
• 26:01
  Dave: Part number two, or the second way that golf, what we can learn from golf and apply it to production music is having a strong foundation.
• 26:12
  Shane: Talk about that Absolutely.
• 26:15
  Shane: I think you know I don't play and practice as much as I did when I was much younger.
• 26:21
  Shane: You know, as we get older, physically we tend to not to be able to do, and you have work and you know family obligations and stuff like that, and so it becomes very difficult to get out and play and practice as much as you would like to.
• 26:34
  Shane: But because of the training that I went through when I was in the early stages of my golfing career, has now, because you have an understanding of you know it's kind of like you know, reading a book on nutrition.
• 26:53
  Shane: Once you have the foundation, then you can build something after that.
• 26:56
  Shane: You'll always have that information with you.
• 26:58
  Shane: And so because I did, I put in the hard work when I was younger, I built that foundation, spent the hours on there.
• 27:05
  Shane: That has now benefited me, where my handicap right now is around a three or a four, which is really really very good for the casual weekend duffer.
• 27:16
  Shane: So this foundation has now enabled me to mid-round.
• 27:20
  Shane: If something's going awry now I can say, okay, what is a past experience I have had that I can call upon to be able to correct the ship and write the ship so I don't shoot 90 or 95?
• 27:32
  Shane: And so this foundation really helps me to be able to bring my scores down.
• 27:39
  Shane: And in production music it's the same way.
• 27:42
  Shane: The grounding of my musical experience prior to that really helped to set a foundation where there was things that I still had to learn.
• 27:52
  Shane: But I knew some of the basics about how to write a piece of music or something like that.
• 27:56
  Shane: So there was some crossover and so I might not have to.
• 28:00
  Shane: You know, I know how to read music, so I don't have to necessarily work on some of the other things.
• 28:05
  Dave: Right.
• 28:05
  Dave: It's like in golf learning a specific course, right, or a certain you know and we'll talk about hazards and stuff here in a second but learning the layout of a certain course, you're not still learning how to swing the club.
• 28:18
  Dave: That is going to apply no matter where you play or what type of game you're trying to play.
• 28:24
  Dave: Right, there's a short game, the long game, but swinging the club, form, you know stance and how you grip.
• 28:32
  Dave: Those are universal, regardless of what kind of club you're holding, what the conditions are, you know those foundational kind of things.
• 28:41
  Dave: Yeah.
• 28:41
  Shane: Yeah, the only thing that changes slightly is the grass type that you are playing on, whether it be Bermuda or whether it be rye grass or whether it be bent grass, you know.
• 28:50
  Shane: So there's some considerations there, but as far as how I grip the club, how I stand, how my posture is, that's all the same through that and that makes a big difference in.
• 28:59
  Shane: Any variance from those standard positions creates havoc with insight and it can only be like an inch or so.
• 29:08
  Shane: I mean, that's what makes golf so difficult.
• 29:11
  Shane: Is that just an inch variance of something you did before?
• 29:14
  Shane: That you can totally, you know, destroy the game.
• 29:17
  Dave: Yeah, and that only comes through doing the reps spending the time with the club swinging and hitting a ball.
• 29:27
  Dave: Right, it's not gonna happen.
• 29:28
  Dave: I mean, you can read about it, you can watch videos about it all day long, you can take courses, you can watch podcasts, but at the end of the day you've gotta put a club in your hands and start swinging at a ball.
• 29:39
  Shane: Yeah, and that foundation, just some context.
• 29:43
  Shane: That foundation is not built in a six month period of time For golf.
• 29:47
  Shane: That foundation is built over five, six years where you're pounding out the reps and stuff like that.
• 29:54
  Shane: So much like production music.
• 29:56
  Shane: It is not accelerated growth.
• 29:58
  Shane: I mean, you see it in any field.
• 30:01
  Shane: You see these young people who are phenoms and stuff like that, but what you don't see is the eight hours a day that they spent, from the time that they were forward to time that they were eight or nine or 10, that they were out there honing their craft.
• 30:15
  Shane: I mean, mozart was the same way.
• 30:17
  Shane: I mean we just seem to think that Mozart just wrote, spewed out these things, but we don't see what his father did for him and the hours that he spent doing that as a young child.
• 30:27
  Dave: Yeah, most of which involuntarily.
• 30:28
  Dave: Yes, absolutely no, absolutely.
• 30:31
  Dave: So what would be your encouragement to somebody maybe on the early side Because you've had a successful golfing career, you've had a successful performing career, music director career and now you're working towards a successful production music career?
• 30:45
  Dave: What would be your encouragement to somebody who's maybe on the front nine uh-huh, see all these golfing metaphors the front nine of their career and maybe feeling a little discouraged?
• 30:55
  Shane: So I would say one of the things that I would say is, when you're first starting out in golf, don't be results oriented, be technique oriented.
• 31:06
  Shane: And I say this because you know I've taught thousands of golf lessons for a wide variety of different ability levels and one thing that I always saw was that, to almost a person, that you actually got worse when you first started taking lessons than when you previously were, and the reason for that is because you're trying to make changes to bad habits.
• 31:32
  Shane: You know, initially, when you stop deciding you're gonna eat sugar, you may feel really bad and say no, I've gotta have the sugar because it's gotta get there.
• 31:39
  Shane: But the reality of it is is that in the longterm that's going to be the same, that's going to be beneficial.
• 31:45
  Shane: So the same thing in golf and in music work on the fundamentals and it may take a little while to get those fundamentals, but that's really going to help you in the long run.
• 31:55
  Shane: Short-term pain for long-term gain.
• 31:57
  Dave: Yeah, which brings me to the next point, which kind of dovetails into this, which is enjoying that process and enjoying those small victories, like where you can find a win, celebrate those.
• 32:16
  Shane: Absolutely, absolutely.
• 32:17
  Shane: You know.
• 32:17
  Shane: I remember and this is so important because sometimes in the golf space we get so bogged down with performance because, look at it realistically, if I don't shoot 71 or 70 or 67 or 68, I'm not gonna be able to feed my family at that point.
• 32:36
  Shane: And so there's some serious pressure that's coming on to you.
• 32:40
  Shane: And so I remember 1994, I was playing in the Colorado Open in Colorado, which at that time you know this is you know what 30 years ago.
• 32:50
  Shane: This was a big tournament.
• 32:52
  Shane: You know this was a big.
• 32:53
  Shane: It was a state open and state opens were big tournaments.
• 32:56
  Shane: I think Phil Mickelson was playing in the field at the time and so I qualified for.
• 33:00
  Shane: You had to qualify for it, I qualified for it and it was the first golf tournament I ever made a cut in, my first professional golf tournament that I ever made the cut in, and this thing will always stand with me, no matter what.
• 33:12
  Shane: This is one of the small successes.
• 33:13
  Shane: So I am on the 18th 18th green and I hit my tee shot pretty good.
• 33:17
  Shane: I hit my second shot to the right of the green and there's a small crowd assembled around the 18th green and I, so I missed the green.
• 33:26
  Shane: It's a par four and so I get up for my next shot and I end up holding the shot out and these people around the green are just clapping and applauding and just, you know the feeling that that gives you to have people.
• 33:41
  Shane: They're recognizing your achievements and it's relatively small I mean you see people chip in all the time but that small success you know that I ended up making the cut in the tournament and ended up doing fairly well, and so it was a very exciting thing.
• 33:54
  Shane: Small win, but it has a big impact on how you move forward mentally.
• 33:59
  Dave: Yeah, and the small win might be.
• 34:01
  Dave: Hey, I hit the ball straight.
• 34:04
  Shane: Absolutely.
• 34:05
  Dave: Or, hey, I shaved off one stroke on my game.
• 34:08
  Dave: Now it might be a giant number, because if you don't follow golf, the lower the score is, the better, right, but that's kind of what we're talking about here.
• 34:19
  Dave: Now, what are some small victories that you've experienced in the production music world?
• 34:25
  Shane: I am always thrilled.
• 34:26
  Shane: You know I've had some.
• 34:27
  Shane: I have a couple tracks with you know, rob, one of your publishers over there, which is which is incomplete, really exciting.
• 34:34
  Shane: But I, you know some, some small wins I have.
• 34:37
  Shane: I've uploaded some music to pawn five.
• 34:39
  Shane: I've uploaded some music to sheet music plus and stuff like that.
• 34:42
  Shane: And every time I get an email that says, hey, you sold.
• 34:45
  Shane: Like, I just uploaded a piece of music called Hyper Minuet and G, which was kind of a hip hoppy of Minuet and G by Bach up to pawn five and I got a.
• 34:54
  Shane: I got a notification the other day that that actually sold.
• 34:57
  Shane: Now that sold, for I got my portion was 70 cents, but that is just huge.
• 35:02
  Shane: That is just huge in, you know, is a Wow.
• 35:05
  Shane: I've got to do more.
• 35:06
  Shane: 70 cents, I can sell a million of those and you know, I mean it's just like you know.
• 35:09
  Shane: So.
• 35:10
  Shane: So these small successes, no matter what they are, it's just and it's tangible.
• 35:14
  Shane: You know it's immediate and it's, it's right there and so much like in golf production music.
• 35:20
  Dave: That that's and it's additive, like small victories build towards large victories.
• 35:27
  Dave: And so, before you know it, you look back and yeah, I sold a year ago I sold one cue for 70 cents.
• 35:33
  Dave: But then, okay, now I have 20 cues and this cue got placed, and this cue got placed and I finished three albums.
• 35:41
  Dave: And when you, when you stay focused on the small victories first of all, it doesn't seem insurmountable, like if I said, hey, you are going to be a professional golfer and it's going to take you know X number of hours and X number of years and X number of dollars, and so just write me a check right now, at the start, and I'll see you in 10 years.
• 36:01
  Dave: That would be way, yeah, that would be super overwhelming.
• 36:03
  Dave: And if I said hey, if I went two years ago and said, hey, shane, two years from now, you know you will have spent this much money on coaching services and you will have gotten this number of placements and you're going to have to write this number of cues, with this number of hours of feedback and everything, you would have probably walked away because it just feels insurmountable.
• 36:21
  Dave: But chipping away at these, at and finding the small victories and using them as handholds while you are scaling the mountain of the thing that you're trying to do, whether it's golf, I don't know, whether it's weight loss or whether it's production music.
• 36:39
  Shane: Right, yeah, and getting those small successes.
• 36:42
  Shane: You know we all want to.
• 36:45
  Shane: You know we all want to, you know, have that easy one shot pill.
• 36:48
  Shane: But it's most satisfying the journey that you go on and develop those skills and able to reproduce that and be able to you know.
• 36:55
  Shane: See those time and time again.
• 36:56
  Shane: Yeah.
• 36:56
  Dave: I think some folks approach production music and they're like you know what I'm gonna.
• 37:01
  Dave: It would be like stepping up to the T and expecting a hold in one every single time.
• 37:07
  Dave: It's just nearly statistically impossible.
• 37:12
  Dave: Even the best golfers on the planet who ever lived Tiger Woods never hold in one every single shot every time he stepped up to the T box Nope.
• 37:23
  Dave: And so if you're starting production music, you're early in your career, or maybe you're further down the road, you know, and you think, oh, this didn't get placed or this didn't find a home, or this didn't make air.
• 37:35
  Dave: That's like expecting to hit a hold in one every time, or whatever sports metaphor.
• 37:41
  Dave: You know, it's like hitting a home run every time you go up to bat.
• 37:45
  Dave: It's just not going to happen.
• 37:47
  Dave: And if you expect that, if you expect these giant victories every time you step up to the ball, you're just going to be disappointed, man.
• 37:57
  Shane: Yeah Well, how many times did we have, you know, heated conversations?
• 38:01
  Shane: You know I'm coming to the perspective.
• 38:03
  Shane: I've got a masters in music.
• 38:04
  Shane: I know what I'm talking about here.
• 38:06
  Shane: What do you mean?
• 38:07
  Shane: I have to do this over here.
• 38:08
  Shane: It's exactly the same thing.
• 38:10
  Shane: It's like having this expert knowledge in one area and then trying to translate that into another area.
• 38:15
  Shane: You just kind of pound your head.
• 38:16
  Shane: You know why is this not working?
• 38:19
  Shane: What's going on here?
• 38:20
  Dave: I mean, I mean, even Michael Jordan didn't cut it as a baseball player.
• 38:24
  Dave: Yeah, he tried.
• 38:25
  Dave: He arguably he's on the Mount Rushmore of basketball Hall of Fame right, there are four basketball players.
• 38:33
  Dave: He'd be one of those faces, but he had a mediocre baseball career.
• 38:40
  Dave: Because you're not starting with this, you're not starting at our 10,000, you know, you're starting at maybe our 2000.
• 38:46
  Dave: So, enjoying those small victories, but absolutely Along the way as we are pursuing the thing and we're enjoying hey, I hit the ball straight.
• 38:55
  Dave: You are going to run into hazards, you're going to get roadblocks, you're going to put the ball in the water, you're going to go into the sand, you're going to go into the rough.
• 39:04
  Dave: You're going to pitch some music that just doesn't land and goes nowhere.
• 39:08
  Dave: So let's talk about that and what we can do and what we can learn from golf in avoiding the hazards.
• 39:16
  Shane: Right, and, and you know, golf courses are full of hazards.
• 39:19
  Shane: Now, they vary by geography, region.
• 39:22
  Shane: Down in South Florida, where you're at, they have a lot of sand, they have alligators, they have like that's a real thing.
• 39:28
  Shane: Yeah, real thing, they have sticky grass.
• 39:30
  Shane: That's really that you know.
• 39:31
  Shane: Here in in in Las Vegas we have desert areas.
• 39:36
  Shane: You know sparseness of trees.
• 39:38
  Shane: We have really fast you know fairways and stuff like that.
• 39:40
  Shane: In Colorado, where I grew up, you have giant.
• 39:42
  Shane: You know pine trees and stuff like that.
• 39:44
  Shane: And so avoiding the hazards are really going to make sure that your score is is better, but knowing how to play out of those hazards.
• 39:54
  Shane: There's a different technique to know how to play out of the sand.
• 39:57
  Shane: Then there is to how to play out of the middle of the fairway, from the grass, or how to play out of the rough.
• 40:03
  Shane: When your ball is sitting down, you know how was the club going to react with the ball.
• 40:08
  Shane: If I get grass caught between the ball and the club, it's going to affect the spin that's on the golf ball.
• 40:13
  Shane: So I need to factor that into what I'm actually.
• 40:16
  Shane: What I'm actually doing.
• 40:18
  Dave: That's when you're bringing.
• 40:19
  Dave: That's when you're bringing some of the specialized tools that you don't always use right.
• 40:22
  Shane: You might need a wedge every single time, only if you're in the sand or only if you're stuck somewhere and need to navigate a shorter distance, and I might, you know, use more wrist, and the technique of the stroke actually changes depending on if I want to hit it high, or if I want to hit it low or if I want to.
• 40:38
  Shane: You know any number of different things, with the ball position as well, and so avoiding these hazards, but also knowing how to play out of these hazards, really becomes extremely important to being successful at golf.
• 40:50
  Dave: Is it fair to say that you will hit hazards?
• 40:56
  Shane: Tiger.
• 40:56
  Dave: Woods has gone into the bunker.
• 40:58
  Dave: Tiger Woods has put balls in the water right, avoiding the hazards, and I've used this analogy before.
• 41:05
  Dave: It's like getting into a boxing ring and expecting not to get hit.
• 41:09
  Dave: The goal isn't to not get hit, it is to take the hit and stay focused and still stay on your plan.
• 41:18
  Shane: There are times when I feel I've hit every hazard on the entire golf course as I'm moving around it, and so you know it's not if you're going to hit hazards, it's when you're going to hit a hazard.
• 41:28
  Shane: And how are you going to get out of that hazard, or how can I avoid that hazard?
• 41:33
  Shane: Maybe I just have to aim left of the hazard, you know so I'm not hitting it into the hazard.
• 41:39
  Dave: But doesn't that often come from?
• 41:40
  Dave: You hit the hazard and then the next time you play like, okay, I'm not going to do that again and I'm going to learn from having hit the hazard before?
• 41:50
  Shane: Absolutely, oh, absolutely, especially if you play the same golf course all the time.
• 41:53
  Shane: Then you can say, okay, I don't want to hit it over here, that's right.
• 41:55
  Shane: There's one hole at the golf course I play all the time out in Boulder City and I hate this golf hole.
• 42:01
  Shane: I just hate this golf hole because I always pull it left and that's automatic desert, because everything slopes to the left.
• 42:08
  Shane: And if you go left, you know, but you don't have much room to the right because everything, at a certain point, slopes to the right, and so it's really just a difficult hole.
• 42:15
  Shane: And so I just get up on that hole and say, okay, I'm just going to write down a double bogey on my cart, you know, because that's just, that's just the way it's going to be on this whole.
• 42:22
  Shane: So sometimes there's just self acceptance.
• 42:25
  Dave: Yeah, it's like me not doing vocal track.
• 42:27
  Shane: There's my double bogey like no, right, yeah, exactly, I'm just singing on a track, unless it's like like tongue-in-cheek dramedy cue.
• 42:33
  Dave: I'm not going to do that.
• 42:34
  Shane: Yeah and so and so, during our interactions in the early going stages, you know, a couple years ago, I had a lot of hazards that I didn't know about in my production music.
• 42:44
  Shane: You know stinger button endings, you know not modulating keys, you know making sure it's all one tempo going through and form.
• 42:54
  Shane: I mean we had some.
• 42:55
  Shane: We had some really choice conversations about the form of an actual song and then I think I think one of the biggest things that we really had the hammer into me, you did, was melody and what constituted a melody.
• 43:09
  Shane: And so these are all the hazards that I had to navigate in order to produce something was going to be production music worthy.
• 43:16
  Dave: Yeah, and the hazards in that that type of cue was because of the type of course you were playing on right you just mentioned.
• 43:24
  Dave: You know, in Florida you have these conditions and in Nevada you have these conditions.
• 43:28
  Dave: It's not necessary.
• 43:29
  Dave: Yes, it's the same game, but it's not the same course, not the same layout, and you're going to be using different tools and different techniques and so you know, you're gonna have to learn about form and structure and some, in some level, you're kind of unlearning what you've already learned.
• 43:47
  Dave: Right, the 10,000 hours you put in as a music director, as a composer and a theater musician, and all of that.
• 43:52
  Dave: It's not that it's for nothing, but you have to kind of translate and you have to realize, ok, I'm about to tee off and I know this slopes to the left, so I'm going to have to counter that.
• 44:03
  Dave: But you only to learn that by playing the hole to begin with, I can sit here and tell you okay, shane, hole number eight, it's gonna slope to left, you're gonna have to pull it to the right.
• 44:13
  Dave: And Until you do that and you feel what pulling to the right feels, like no amount of me telling you about it, no amount.
• 44:22
  Dave: You just have to walk through it and I think that that can be super challenging Because, you know, most humans are pain averse.
• 44:29
  Dave: Yes, the boxer doesn't like getting hit, but they're going to get hit and it's how you, how you work through it.
• 44:37
  Dave: But, you know, I just talked about how I don't like playing games that are that are hard right, because I'm not instantly good at them and so it has to be rewarding enough, like golf offense.
• 44:49
  Dave: Golf is not rewarding enough for me to push through that pain, but I will sit here and Like tweak sense all day long, or I will like try rollerblading or cycling and falling down over and over and over Not cycling on my rollerblades, because I really, really enjoy it, but you can't avoid those hazards.
• 45:10
  Dave: All together we can mitigate them but at the end of the day, failure I'm sorry to say Failure is often the best teacher.
• 45:22
  Shane: Absolutely.
• 45:22
  Shane: I couldn't hardly agree with you more you know, because you're not going to play your best every single day.
• 45:26
  Shane: No especially on the golf course.
• 45:28
  Shane: I mean, there was a period of time where I was shooting in 1991, just three or four years ago, and so you have to go back and reevaluate what it is that you're doing, and those self-reflective times are really, really important, you know.
• 45:39
  Shane: Yeah and that's where your foundation comes in, because then you can actually Look at what you're doing from a cogent you know aspect.
• 45:50
  Shane: Like if I didn't know anything about golf, it'd be very difficult for me to pull myself out of the slump, but because I had that foundations, I was able to pull myself out of that that slump.
• 45:59
  Shane: And I think it's the same thing in production music and sometimes the hazards are completely out of your control.
• 46:05
  Dave: Like you might be on a course and, yes, you know the late you've played the course, you know it's gonna pull to the left and you you compensate, but a Wind gust happens that's completely out of your control.
• 46:16
  Dave: That is going to knock your ball off off course.
• 46:19
  Dave: Right, it's gonna knock it off of its trajectory.
• 46:22
  Dave: What would be your encouragement to folks who might be feeling like that, like, hey, dave, I'm doing everything you're saying, right, I taxi subscriber.
• 46:31
  Dave: Or or I'm following your podcast.
• 46:34
  Dave: And in the encouragement from the golf golf world about navigating those, when you feel like, well, I mean not to put too fine a point on it, but feel like giving up.
• 46:47
  Shane: Yeah, I mean, and there there have.
• 46:48
  Shane: There have been periods of time when I when I have felt like I wanted to give up, and One of the things about golf is that, no matter how bad that I actually play, I just actually I actually love, I Love the game, and so I love Exploring the game, I love doing and and I played some.
• 47:09
  Shane: And there was a period of time in my life when I took off about three or four years where I actually didn't play hardly any golf because it was just, you know, it was just extremely frustrating.
• 47:18
  Shane: But then I went back, I re-evaluate and I went back to it.
• 47:21
  Shane: But my, my encouragement would be to just keep plowing forward, because in golf you never know what is going to trigger Good play again, because it's it's it's a game of inches.
• 47:34
  Shane: I mean I could move my ball position, you know, two or three inches forward in my stance and that's going to make all the difference in the world.
• 47:42
  Shane: So you can't, you can't just stop doing what you're doing, expecting it to get any better.
• 47:48
  Shane: You've got to just keep tinkering and fidgeting and and and learning as much as you can, because there's always something to learn.
• 47:55
  Shane: I mean I find myself going back to golf books, you know even now, at my my age, of my ability level, just to just to Refresh and so keep tinkering.
• 48:05
  Shane: You know, not everyone's going to like what you do, and that's the great thing about golf, is that not every golf swing Looks the same.
• 48:11
  Shane: Yeah, but they, they're do some really great results.
• 48:15
  Dave: Yeah, at the end at the end of the day, everybody's getting their ball in the hole.
• 48:18
  Dave: I mean, that's, that's the goal, but I I'll add on to that you have to enjoy the smell of the grass.
• 48:25
  Dave: You have to enjoy that, that the morning feel.
• 48:29
  Dave: You have to enjoy swinging a club.
• 48:31
  Dave: You have to enjoy wearing, you know, a colored shirt, right?
• 48:36
  Dave: You have to enjoy Everything about it, just like you have to enjoy the writing process.
• 48:42
  Dave: In fact, I would say you probably need to enjoy it more.
• 48:46
  Dave: You need to enjoy writing more than having written.
• 48:50
  Dave: You need to enjoy golf and Playing golf more than the score.
• 48:55
  Dave: At the end of the day, that's not really why you play.
• 48:58
  Dave: I mean, yes, you want, you want to get placements and you want to have lower scores, blah blah, but it's the entire experience that is is the reward, not just how, how, how quickly did you get the ball in the hall?
• 49:13
  Shane: Yeah, and that's.
• 49:14
  Shane: And then golf is volatile, like I think this week I think I shot 76, one and then, and then I went up and shot an 81 and then an 80, but it's that 76 that keeps me coming back.
• 49:26
  Shane: That's why I continue to do it, because I, I, I know it's there, I know I can do it on a course you played all the time right.
• 49:33
  Shane: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and I think that I think that it boils back down to you know, in golf it's just get out there, play, repeat, kind of like the Dean Cropay, you know, right, submit, repeat, right, submit, right.
• 49:46
  Shane: And that's all you gotta do, because not everyone's gonna like the way I do it, or not everyone's gonna like the way Do it, but I have to just keep on doing it, because I'm gonna get that 76 every once in a while.
• 49:54
  Shane: That's 72, but I'm also gonna have the 81.
• 49:57
  Shane: Yeah, and I just got to enjoy all of that's right.
• 49:59
  Dave: That's great, yeah.
• 50:00
  Dave: And then the last thing, which and I'm saving this for last because you know it's it's the the cornerstone of our relationship, it's the cornerstone of 52 cues, and that is you can really only get so good on your own.
• 50:18
  Dave: I mean, you can only eat the best golfers in the world.
• 50:21
  Dave: Somewhere along the line, they had a coach, they had a mentor, they had somebody who was where they wanted to be, or somebody who had an understanding of, of a subject that they could absorb and use for themselves.
• 50:38
  Dave: So, finding a mentor, finding a coach, that was instrumental for you, I know as a, as a Composer and production music composer specifically, but also, I'm assuming, as a golfer.
• 50:51
  Shane: Yeah, I will say, you know, I think and we have talked about this before one of the things that I think accelerates growth the quickest is finding a mentor and and working underneath their tutelage.
• 51:04
  Shane: Now, when I was when I so I was growing up in the golf in the 80s, and you know I had a I had a golf coach.
• 51:11
  Shane: His name is Jim Smithy Smith, and what just a fantastic.
• 51:15
  Shane: He was a disciple of Ben Hogan, and so that's where I really built my, built my foundation.
• 51:20
  Shane: And you know, jack Nicholas had a coach, jack Grout you know Most of these golfers, but today, when you look at the top level golfers, they not only have a coach, but they have a team of individuals that is around them.
• 51:37
  Shane: They have a health nutritionist, they have a body coach, they have a short game coach, they have a long swing coach, and all of this to say that keeping oneself at the highest levels of performance on there Requires a whole team of individuals.
• 51:50
  Shane: And so my recommendation to anyone who's looking to really accelerate that is find yourself a mentor, whether that be Dave, whether that be the 52 cues community you know any of these any place that you you kind of gel with or and is going to put you onto the right track.
• 52:06
  Shane: That is so invaluable in golf and in production, music or even in composition.
• 52:11
  Shane: You know I can't stress enough the importance of having a teacher.
• 52:17
  Shane: You know, and, and when I, when I was a golf professional, thank goodness that that golf is such a hard game because it kept me employed a little bit to help pay the bills you know for, to help the other people to try to achieve their goals, and.
• 52:32
  Shane: But there's a satisfaction in Seeing that gleam in someone's eyes when they hit it out there 75 yards and they got it in the air.
• 52:42
  Shane: And Just getting a ball in the air is a dramatic achievement in golf.
• 52:47
  Shane: Yeah most people don't realize that, but it's a dramatic achievement.
• 52:50
  Dave: It's one of those things that we see other folks do and it's like, hey, they make that look easy.
• 52:57
  Dave: When I see Tiger Woods swing in a club, it looks easy.
• 53:02
  Dave: It looks easy, but I can tell you from my very limited golf experience it is not easy.
• 53:07
  Dave: And so when you see somebody either like me or Jesse, or watch any of the Taxi TV episodes, first of all you didn't see all the work that goes kind of behind the scenes.
• 53:19
  Dave: But also they make it look easy because of the reps and the time that they put into it.
• 53:26
  Dave: But even still finding someone who can kind of come alongside you and guide you to where you want to be.
• 53:33
  Dave: I had a composition mentor, production music mentor that came alongside me and I was wrong a lot, but they were eternally patient and at the end of the day they want the same thing, right.
• 53:47
  Dave: They want me to be successful, like I wanted me to be successful.
• 53:51
  Dave: And so it seems super cheesy for a teacher to say like your success is my success, but that's absolutely true.
• 53:58
  Dave: You know, we had some folks over the weekend get some air on college football and I was as ecstatic for that placement as if it were my own, because their success is absolutely my success.
• 54:11
  Shane: Absolutely, and I would say in golf the default position is to have a coach.
• 54:16
  Shane: You don't see very many guys who don't have a coach.
• 54:19
  Shane: In fact, they don't telecast all the time.
• 54:21
  Shane: Okay, well, he just changed his swing coach and sometimes that happens and there's nothing wrong with that.
• 54:26
  Shane: So perhaps you have one person that you started with and then you haven't and then you kind of stagnated and then you got to move on to someone else and these different kinds of things.
• 54:34
  Shane: So it's really all about, you know, maintaining that forward growth.
• 54:38
  Shane: And it's not an indictment of the previous individuals.
• 54:42
  Shane: What it is is just, you know, you just have to.
• 54:44
  Dave: Sometimes you need something fresh or something you know just a different perspective, and it's not an indictment on the skill.
• 54:50
  Dave: I mean, tom Brady arguably the best quarterback ever to throw a football had a quarterback's coach, and I'm like if Tom Brady could get a coach, you know, I think I can do with a composition mentor, because you just having an outside perspective, somebody outside of your own head who can see things from a different angle that you just can't.
• 55:14
  Dave: You can't see what the back of what, what your butt looks like when you swing a ball, even if you put a camera up, it's not the same Right.
• 55:25
  Dave: And so finding somebody, finding a mentor whether it's 52Qs, whether it's me or whether it's somebody else, it doesn't matter Just find somebody who you resonate with, who you trust.
• 55:38
  Dave: I think that's super important.
• 55:39
  Dave: Somebody that you trust, somebody that you know has achieved a level of success or demonstrable skills that you respect and that you trust, and then just reach out to them.
• 55:54
  Shane: And that's why that's why I say that someone who has achieved a certain level of success, so I mean someone maybe 85 or 90 years old and might not hit the ball like they once did, but you know who wouldn't want to take a lesson from Jack Nicholas, who doesn't play golf now, because so they?
• 56:10
  Shane: I think if you find those people who have, at one point, you know, achieved a high level of success, that's going to maximize the use of dollars.
• 56:17
  Shane: I mean, I took some lessons from a guy by the name of Bob May here in Las Vegas and Bob May was a professional golfer who you know sparred against Tiger Woods at the at a PGA championship.
• 56:29
  Shane: They went into extra holes for it, and so he has a track record of that and I learned so much just being around that kind of thing.
• 56:35
  Dave: So yeah, so so you know, like I said, we just came out of Black Friday maybe, instead of buying that synth, maybe, you know, buy a coaching session.
• 56:44
  Dave: Again, not for me, just let me cool if you do, but that's not the point.
• 56:47
  Dave: The point is, is that mentoring and interactive real time feedback, like you said, shane, I firmly believe it is the fastest way to step up your game.
• 57:00
  Shane: Yeah, you got to practice, because I never like teaching a lesson when they hadn't practiced the week before.
• 57:07
  Dave: I mean, that's one of the reasons I stopped teaching drum set lessons.
• 57:10
  Dave: I got tired of having you know, middle schoolers have the same lesson, and I eventually told their parents I'm like, listen, I'd be happy to take your $40 every single week, but we are literally having the same lesson.
• 57:22
  Shane: And it just drained me.
• 57:23
  Shane: Absolutely, absolutely, yeah, very good.
• 57:26
  Dave: Well, shane, once again, I cannot overstate how thankful I am for you and how much I appreciate everything that you've done in the community and for your time here today, and it really is an honor and a privilege to play even a small role in your professional development as a composer and I really, really thank you for your time today and all of your insight.
• 57:50
  Dave: Right, being a professional golfer seems so outside of anything that I have any consciousness about that.
• 57:58
  Dave: It's fascinating to see how much really carries over into what we do as production music composers.
• 58:03
  Dave: But, shane, thank you so much for joining me today.
• 58:05
  Shane: Thank you, I appreciate it.
• 58:06
  Shane: Thank you, dave.
• 58:08
  Dave: Once again, a huge word of thanks to Shane for joining me today.
• 58:11
  Dave: You know, living here in Florida and like close to Disney and everything, there are a ton of really amazing golf courses down here.
• 58:18
  Dave: So, shane, if you ever come to Florida, maybe, maybe I'll join you on the links and give golf the old college try one more time.
• 58:28
  Dave: But again, shane, thank you so much for joining us.
• 58:30
  Dave: And also a huge word of thanks to the family, friends and neighbor subscribers of 52Qs, who pay their actual, real life money to make all of this possible.
• 58:41
  Dave: You know you don't hear any embedded ads for meal plans or plugins or headphones or anything like that, and the reason we're able to do that here at 52Qs is because of support from people just like you.
• 58:53
  Dave: So in addition to all of those perks, they also get the satisfaction of knowing that they are helping their fellow composers.
• 59:01
  Dave: So if this sounds like something you're interested in, then head over to 52Qscom.
• 59:05
  Dave: We have family subscriptions, friends subscriptions and neighbor subscriptions starting at around four bucks a month.
• 59:11
  Dave: We would love to have you over there, but that is going to do it for me this week.
• 59:16
  Dave: You definitely want to join me next week, where I am going to be asking what are you afraid of?
• 59:23
  Dave: What are you afraid of?
• 59:25
  Dave: What are the fears that are standing in your way of becoming the next version of yourself?
• 59:34
  Dave: So we're going to talk about fears, maybe some of the common fears that you might run up against in the creative industry, especially in production and library music, and I'll share some of my strategies on overcoming our fears.
• 59:49
  Dave: But tune in next week for sure.
• 59:52
  Dave: And again, I hope you've had an amazing week four and I know that you are going to have an amazing week five.
• 59:57
  Dave: Why do I know that?
• 59:58
  Dave: Because I know, trust and believe that the universe has amazing plans just for you.
• 1:00:04
  Dave: Until next time, peace.