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Legally Brunette: Unknown Number · Legally Brunette

0:01
Speaker 1: Hi, guys, welcome to another episode of Legally Brunette. I'll
0:03
Speaker 1: be your host today Emily Simpson and Shane Also very
0:08
Speaker 1: exciting news. We have done so well and you guys
0:11
Speaker 1: have enjoyed Legally Brunette so much that we are now
0:14
Speaker 1: moving to our own feed so you'll be able to
0:16
Speaker 1: find us easier. I know a lot of you got
0:18
Speaker 1: confused because you were like, it goes to two teas.
0:21
Speaker 1: Now when you search legally Brunette, it will go to
0:23
Speaker 1: our own feed and we will be bringing you episodes weekly.
0:27
Speaker 1: But for today, we are going to go into the
0:30
Speaker 1: case of the Catfish mom Kendra Lacari. Originally we weren't
0:34
Speaker 1: even gonna we were going to talk about a different case,
0:36
Speaker 1: but this has become so huge everybody's talking about it.
0:41
Speaker 1: It's a Netflix series that's called Unknown Number the High
0:44
Speaker 1: School Catfish. So let's just go through. Let's just first
0:48
Speaker 1: do like a brief overview of kind of what we're
0:50
Speaker 1: talking about. If you have not watched it yet, I
0:54
Speaker 1: suggest that you do. Not only is it shocking and
0:59
Speaker 1: different than anything you've probably ever heard before, but it's
1:02
Speaker 1: actually entertaining and has a lot of interviews of all
1:06
Speaker 1: the people involved in it. So this is a case
1:09
Speaker 1: that started in twenty twenty two with two Michigan teenagers,
1:12
Speaker 1: Lauren Lacari and Owen McKinney, and they began receiving anonymous
1:16
Speaker 1: text messages from an unknown number. Over time, the communications
1:20
Speaker 1: escalated into persistent harassment, with dozens of messages arriving daily
1:25
Speaker 1: that included cruel insults, explicit remarks and when I say explicit,
1:30
Speaker 1: like grossly explicit, like sexually explicit, and also threats. Most
1:36
Speaker 1: text messages focused on Lauren and Owen's relationship, targeting Lauren's
1:40
Speaker 1: insecurities and eventually forcing them to break up. But the
1:43
Speaker 1: harassment did not stop there. The cyber bully persisted with
1:47
Speaker 1: the text messages and eventually told Lauren to take her
1:50
Speaker 1: own life. And that wasn't just a one time thing.
1:52
Speaker 1: I mean it was multiple times of like die bitch,
1:56
Speaker 1: and side say how to kill yourself, just to kill yourself,
2:01
Speaker 1: just to kill yourself. The behavior caused significant distress for
2:04
Speaker 1: the teens and drew the attention of parent, school officials,
2:07
Speaker 1: and local police. As the harassment continued, outside agencies were
2:11
Speaker 1: brought into assist. After almost an entire year of these
2:14
Speaker 1: relentless messages, and I believe at one point they were
2:17
Speaker 1: getting up to fifty messages a day. The FBI investigators
2:21
Speaker 1: trace the messages back to none other than Lauren Lacari's mother,
2:27
Speaker 1: Kendra Lacari. All right, let's just talk about where this
2:31
Speaker 1: took place, because I think it's important to kind of
2:32
Speaker 1: get a background of this small town. Everybody knows everybody,
2:39
Speaker 1: which is where this took place. So the dynamic of
2:41
Speaker 1: what happens happens in this small town called Beal City, Michigan.
2:45
Speaker 1: And when they describe bal City, it literally has like
2:48
Speaker 1: two bars and one stoplight, and it's a dairy town,
2:53
Speaker 1: lots of flat fields. It reminds me. Look, I grew
2:55
Speaker 1: up in Ohio, so when they're describing beal City, Michigan,
3:00
Speaker 1: I feel like I relate.
3:01
Speaker 2: It's basically like these are your people, these.
3:03
Speaker 1: Are my people. It's like Middletown, Ohio. I mean, I
3:05
Speaker 1: went to a very small high school. There were only
3:09
Speaker 1: ninety nine people in my graduating class.
3:11
Speaker 2: So then clearly you got validatorian.
3:13
Speaker 1: No, I mean, which is sad I should have but no, Okay.
3:19
Speaker 1: So Beal City is a farming community with two pubs
3:21
Speaker 1: and one flashing intersection. They have one school that is
3:24
Speaker 1: all kindergarten through twelfth with about fifty kids per grade.
3:27
Speaker 1: The McKinneys. This is Owen McKinney. His family was an
3:31
Speaker 1: established family in that area, while Kindred grew up about
3:34
Speaker 1: a two hour drive away in the suburb or excerbs.
3:36
Speaker 1: I don't know what excerbs are. Is that the opposite
3:38
Speaker 1: of suburb and excurb?
3:41
Speaker 2: I guess, so I can look it up if that's
3:45
Speaker 2: what you're asking.
3:46
Speaker 1: It's an exurb of Detroit. Locals can see that Beal
3:49
Speaker 1: City can be a tough place for transplants, that anyone
3:52
Speaker 1: who didn't go to the school or doesn't have one
3:53
Speaker 1: of the known last names will always be considered not
3:56
Speaker 1: from around here. And although Sean Lacari, who is Kendra's husband,
4:01
Speaker 1: was from Beale, he wasn't considered to be part of
4:04
Speaker 1: the end crowd within this small town community. So Kindra
4:08
Speaker 1: was not. She did not grow up in Beale's city.
4:10
Speaker 1: She grew up two hours outside of it, So I
4:12
Speaker 1: guess she never was like considered an insider within this
4:16
Speaker 1: small town where there's non last names, Like she.
4:19
Speaker 2: Was a foreigner of the town. Kind of thing.
4:21
Speaker 1: So let's just get through a little bit of the
4:23
Speaker 1: timeline of events. Let's just break this down.
4:25
Speaker 2: Ask question, are you man? I might go ahead, what
4:29
Speaker 2: you say, high school? But wait, it's it ninth grade,
4:31
Speaker 2: tenth grade, twelfth grade. I think actually it's are they
4:35
Speaker 2: of driving age?
4:36
Speaker 1: No? No, Actually when the text messages, when the harassing
4:39
Speaker 1: text messages first start. So there's actually two rounds of
4:41
Speaker 1: text messages. There's some text messages that come through from
4:45
Speaker 1: an anonymous person when they're in the seventh grade and
4:48
Speaker 1: they're dating, you know, whether how you date in the
4:50
Speaker 1: seventh grade or whatever.
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Speaker 2: They're like, you sit in the same lunch table, like.
4:53
Speaker 1: Right, they're like boyfriend and girlfriend.
4:55
Speaker 2: You know, she's very into same hanging out at the
4:57
Speaker 2: stop light.
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Speaker 1: Right, they hang out at the stoplight and the dairy fields.
5:02
Speaker 1: She's very into sports, he's into sports. They seem to
5:05
Speaker 1: have that connection. They're in the seventh grade, and I
5:07
Speaker 1: think the first round of text messages that come from
5:10
Speaker 1: some anonymous source are mean, but they're not explicit, and
5:16
Speaker 1: it's more of like, haha, you didn't get invited to
5:18
Speaker 1: this Halloween party. It's like poking, yeah, and like Owen
5:21
Speaker 1: doesn't really like you and he doesn't want to go
5:23
Speaker 1: with you, and blah blah blah.
5:24
Speaker 2: It sounds like junior high text messages as opposed to
5:28
Speaker 2: an adult exactly.
5:29
Speaker 1: But if you look at the language and the way
5:32
Speaker 1: that the words are spelled in that first round of
5:34
Speaker 1: text messages, it doesn't use slang. Everything's spelled correctly, it
5:38
Speaker 1: has punctuation. It's very different than when the second round
5:41
Speaker 1: of text harassing text messages start. So if you really
5:44
Speaker 1: want to analyze it and look.
5:45
Speaker 2: Deep into it, to me, oh, what does that mean?
5:48
Speaker 1: Well, to me, it just means that like when she
5:49
Speaker 1: first she claimed so, the mother claims that she didn't
5:52
Speaker 1: send the first round to text messages, that she only
5:56
Speaker 1: got the idea from when these first harassing messages occur.
6:00
Speaker 2: So other people were asking my daughter, and I decided
6:02
Speaker 2: to join them. Yeah, I didn't come up with the
6:04
Speaker 2: idea of myself, right.
6:05
Speaker 1: But I mean my educated guests would be she clearly
6:10
Speaker 1: sent the messages in the first place, and I think
6:13
Speaker 1: she sent them as a mother, well, even if she
6:16
Speaker 1: as an.
6:16
Speaker 2: Adult, Even so, she's no less guilty of no I
6:19
Speaker 2: think harassing her daughter to this point, even if she
6:23
Speaker 2: is joined in on others doing it right.
6:25
Speaker 1: I think that was a non issue that they didn't
6:27
Speaker 1: really get into much in the documentary because it didn't
6:29
Speaker 1: matter whether she sent the first round. It was clear
6:32
Speaker 1: that she said the second round that lasted, you know,
6:35
Speaker 1: over a year. That was up to fifty a day.
6:38
Speaker 1: That was horrible. So anyway, back in October twenty twenty,
6:41
Speaker 1: Lauren and her boyfriend Owen, who they were aged at thirteen,
6:44
Speaker 1: began receiving odd, anonymous text messages. One read HI, Lauren
6:47
Speaker 1: Owen is breaking up with you. At the time, the
6:49
Speaker 1: teens assumed it was just a prank. Then in late
6:52
Speaker 1: twenty twenty early twenty twenty one, after that initial burst
6:56
Speaker 1: of messages, the messages stopped for several months, giving the
6:58
Speaker 1: couple hope that the harass was over. Then in September
7:02
Speaker 1: of twenty twenty one, the message is resumed, this time
7:04
Speaker 1: with alarming frequency, and the teens began receiving thirty to
7:08
Speaker 1: fifty text messages per day. These messages were graphic, sexually explicit, insulting,
7:13
Speaker 1: and life threatening. One message included a homecoming photo of
7:17
Speaker 1: Lauren with a vomiting emoji paced it over her head
7:20
Speaker 1: and the words this is the mother skink and hoe
7:23
Speaker 1: plastered on her body. In a group thread, the texter
7:27
Speaker 1: asked Owen to help take Lauren down and told her
7:29
Speaker 1: that Owen had quote said his life would be better
7:32
Speaker 1: if you were dead end quote and quote no one
7:35
Speaker 1: will care if you gone. Now, this is when she
7:38
Speaker 1: starts using slang, and she starts texting like like a
7:43
Speaker 1: high schooler. Would you know what I mean? She doesn't
7:45
Speaker 1: spell words out, She's like sorry, not sorry. Yeah, she's
7:49
Speaker 1: like hip, she's like learned the slang, so her texting
7:52
Speaker 1: style changes significantly, so every day for months, the harassment
7:57
Speaker 1: continued under immense emotional stress. Lauren and Owen eventually break up,
8:02
Speaker 1: partly in hopes that the messages would stop, but even
8:05
Speaker 1: after they split up, the messages intensified. Both Lauren and
8:08
Speaker 1: Owen's parents became deeply concerned about the teens well being. Now,
8:12
Speaker 1: first of all, she's sending these text messages under anonymous numbers,
8:17
Speaker 1: which I didn't know you could do, but I learned
8:19
Speaker 1: this that there's certain software or apps, like she used PingER,
8:24
Speaker 1: where you can text but your numbers covered up, so
8:27
Speaker 1: every time you text, it just comes up as a
8:29
Speaker 1: different number each time. That's why you don't know who's
8:32
Speaker 1: doing it, so it consistently just keeps changing the number,
8:37
Speaker 1: so your number is hidden and then every time you
8:40
Speaker 1: send a text.
8:40
Speaker 2: Well yeah, but she else could have just gotten a
8:42
Speaker 2: random phone or what's app app or something. There's lots
8:47
Speaker 2: of ways to have a number that's not tied to you.
8:52
Speaker 1: Yeah right, I don't know, because I don't harass people.
8:54
Speaker 1: But I mean I don't have you do directly to me.
8:58
Speaker 2: Yeah.
8:58
Speaker 1: I just ask people directly to their in person, not
9:02
Speaker 1: through I don't.
9:03
Speaker 2: Have to cover to cover that.
9:05
Speaker 1: No, I don't have one of those. So anyway, she's
9:07
Speaker 1: using a PingER account.
9:09
Speaker 2: Agay, But I was just getting at regardless that that's
9:13
Speaker 2: again a non issue. She just found a way to
9:16
Speaker 2: not expose her number her daughter. So Lauren's mom kisses
9:19
Speaker 2: since seventh grade.
9:20
Speaker 1: Yeah, so then we're now to December of twenty twenty one,
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Speaker 1: Lauren's mom, Kendra and Owen's mom Jill gather in the
9:26
Speaker 1: school principal's office, demanding that action be taken. Towards the
9:30
Speaker 1: side of the.
9:32
Speaker 2: Principal's office's demanding action.
9:35
Speaker 1: She's demanding action, that action be taken. And you know,
9:39
Speaker 1: it's also interesting when you watch this documentary. Because this
9:41
Speaker 1: documentary was clearly filmed in two parts. They filmed it
9:45
Speaker 1: without Kendra Lacari because she initially did not want to
9:48
Speaker 1: be a part of it, and I believe she was
9:50
Speaker 1: in prison at the time when they were filming it. Okay,
9:53
Speaker 1: so she's not part of it, and they filmed the
9:55
Speaker 1: majority of it. Then she does decide to be part
9:59
Speaker 1: of the documentary. So now they have interviews with her.
10:02
Speaker 1: But what they've done, which is actually brilliant, is they've
10:05
Speaker 1: gone back and inserted her into the documentary where she's
10:10
Speaker 1: literally talking about how they're trying to find out who
10:13
Speaker 1: this person is. So that's why if you know nothing
10:16
Speaker 1: about this story and you've never heard.
10:19
Speaker 2: So they kept her from giving spoilers. There's no spoiler
10:22
Speaker 2: in the documentary or like a confessional that you do.
10:24
Speaker 2: It's like they brought her in like we need three
10:27
Speaker 2: looks and come in and then tell in time of
10:31
Speaker 2: the recording what's going on?
10:32
Speaker 1: Right? But how is that? Like me, I don't understand
10:34
Speaker 1: that because they bring you in the studio after you
10:37
Speaker 1: feel everything, after the crimes are committed, they bring you
10:39
Speaker 1: in and then.
10:40
Speaker 2: You talk about it. Right, Yes, So this is a
10:43
Speaker 2: prison confessional.
10:44
Speaker 1: Yes, so she's in the documentary speaking and the way
10:49
Speaker 1: that she does it, I mean talk about not having
10:52
Speaker 1: any like conscious because she speaks about it with like
10:57
Speaker 1: full force of like we're going to find out who
11:00
Speaker 1: it is. We're gonna you know, we got to.
11:01
Speaker 2: Get to the Well, that's funny because this makes sense
11:03
Speaker 2: because you were telling me as you were researching and watching,
11:07
Speaker 2: like do they not know it's her? Remember you didn't
11:10
Speaker 2: know if it was the mother, like the production like,
11:13
Speaker 2: what's going on? Now we know? Oh, she came in
11:16
Speaker 2: after the fact and recorded as if Yeah, and without
11:19
Speaker 2: spoiling anything.
11:21
Speaker 1: Right, Well, after I watched the whole thing, I did
11:24
Speaker 1: more research and read interviews with the with the producer
11:28
Speaker 1: or director sky Borgman, and it was basically it came
11:30
Speaker 1: down to they filmed the majority of it. Then when
11:33
Speaker 1: she was released from prison she finally decided to be
11:35
Speaker 1: a part of it. They filmed her, filmed her interviews,
11:38
Speaker 1: added them back in, and then it ended up being
11:40
Speaker 1: amazing TV because what happened is you don't think it's
11:43
Speaker 1: her because she's giving interviews about how she's trying to
11:45
Speaker 1: find out who it is, and then there's a moment
11:48
Speaker 1: where it's revealed that it's the mom, and it's shocking
11:51
Speaker 1: if you don't know the story at that point. So
11:55
Speaker 1: the Texter knew and trigger it details about Owen and
11:57
Speaker 1: lawrence relationship, duh because it's the mother, for example, like
12:02
Speaker 1: what short shirt Lauren was wearing the school that day,
12:04
Speaker 1: specifics of the school's basketball or football games, Lauren not
12:08
Speaker 1: being invited to a Halloween party, et cetera, leading them
12:11
Speaker 1: to believe that it had to be another student at
12:14
Speaker 1: the school who was there. That would be a logical thought, right,
12:17
Speaker 1: So I think Kindred really goes out of her way
12:20
Speaker 1: to frame it being a different student. And there's a
12:24
Speaker 1: girl that goes to the school who's friends with Owen
12:26
Speaker 1: named Chloe Wilson. And Chloe already has a reputation of
12:29
Speaker 1: being kind of a bully. She's had a couple complaints
12:31
Speaker 1: against her. She's very strong, she's very outgoing, so.
12:35
Speaker 2: She's a likely candidate.
12:36
Speaker 1: She's athletic, her dad's a police officer. Her mom, I
12:41
Speaker 1: see where maybe she gets this bowling allegations.
12:43
Speaker 2: Because her her mom's a character, a character.
12:47
Speaker 1: I'll just say that. So Chloe Wilson, a well known
12:50
Speaker 1: popular girl, in Lauren and Owen's grade was initially being
12:52
Speaker 1: framed as a cyber bully. In one message, the bully
12:55
Speaker 1: claimed that she scored twelve points in a basketball game.
12:59
Speaker 1: Kindra Lacar, this is the mom who was the scorekeeper
13:01
Speaker 1: for women's basketball, was able to run and retrieve the
13:05
Speaker 1: stats from that game in order to find out that
13:07
Speaker 1: Chloe was the only one who scored twelve points. So
13:11
Speaker 1: I remember this. I believe they were talking about it
13:13
Speaker 1: in the principal's office and the text explicitly talked about
13:17
Speaker 1: scoring twelve points in a game, and Kindra was like,
13:20
Speaker 1: let me go run and look at the stats, and
13:23
Speaker 1: she pulls up the stats and then she's like, it's
13:25
Speaker 1: Chloe Wilson that scored twelve points. So she's clearly framing
13:30
Speaker 1: these text messages around intimate details that have to do
13:34
Speaker 1: with Chloe Wilson. Lauren had always speculated that Chloe had
13:38
Speaker 1: a crush on Owen, and despite Owen and chloeing Chloe
13:41
Speaker 1: being close friends, Lauren never had a close relationship with her.
13:45
Speaker 1: This is Lauren and Chloe. They were never really friendly
13:47
Speaker 1: with each other. The Wilson family always has this huge
13:50
Speaker 1: Halloween bash at their house every year, and Lauren wasn't invited,
13:53
Speaker 1: and this cyber bully used that specific information to portray
13:56
Speaker 1: her as a loser. In one instance, the cyber bully's
13:59
Speaker 1: airs code would change to a nine h six area code,
14:03
Speaker 1: which is Michigan's Upper Peninsula, which happened to be exactly
14:06
Speaker 1: where Chloe was snowmobiling with her family at the time.
14:09
Speaker 1: So you can tell that Kender was very savvy. Not
14:15
Speaker 1: only was she sending text messages through this PingER app
14:18
Speaker 1: that she was using, but she also knew how to
14:21
Speaker 1: change the area code from where these messages were coming
14:25
Speaker 1: to to directly correlate where Chloe was located physically.
14:29
Speaker 2: And she was very serious about this. Yeah, phishing.
14:31
Speaker 1: I mean it was really methodical and meticulous and thought
14:35
Speaker 1: out and obsessive. I mean, when you really think about
14:38
Speaker 1: how much time and energy she.
14:39
Speaker 2: Put into it scary.
14:41
Speaker 1: Despite Owen and Lauren's parents zeroing in on Chloe as
14:44
Speaker 1: the perpetrator, Chloe denied the accusation. She even claimed that
14:48
Speaker 1: she had lost friends because of these false accusations. Now
14:51
Speaker 1: we get to January of twenty twenty two. Despite the
14:54
Speaker 1: school's best efforts and trying to track down the student
14:57
Speaker 1: responsible for the text they got nowhere. I do know that,
15:02
Speaker 1: and I thought this was interesting because I don't know
15:04
Speaker 1: how schools handle this or what the policy is. But
15:07
Speaker 1: in my mind, I was thinking, Okay, these parents go
15:09
Speaker 1: into the principal's office and they're like, look, our kids
15:11
Speaker 1: are getting cyberbullid. It's probably by someone in the school.
15:13
Speaker 1: It has to be because they have intimate knowledge of
15:15
Speaker 1: these friend groups and things that are going on. And
15:18
Speaker 1: then at what point, like the school becomes involved. I
15:23
Speaker 1: liked the principle.
15:24
Speaker 2: How so how do they become involved?
15:25
Speaker 1: They actually set up some sting operations to a certain point.
15:32
Speaker 1: They the principal asked the like Lauren and Owen, if
15:36
Speaker 1: they got these messages during school school hours, to text
15:40
Speaker 1: him and tell him, and then he would look at
15:44
Speaker 1: the recording. What is it, you know, the video of
15:48
Speaker 1: the surveillance, Yes, the surveillance video, and the school to
15:54
Speaker 1: see if they could see if any students was texting
15:57
Speaker 1: at that same time. I believe teachers were aware of
16:00
Speaker 1: what was going on, so they were also on the
16:02
Speaker 1: lookout of any students that look like they were texting
16:05
Speaker 1: at all the times. I mean, I feel like the
16:07
Speaker 1: principal really made an effort to.
16:11
Speaker 2: Help these Yeah, it sounds like it.
16:13
Speaker 1: And you know, they also made the suggestion of taking
16:15
Speaker 1: the phones away from the kids, and then the parents
16:17
Speaker 1: were like, this is their lifeline, this is how we
16:19
Speaker 1: get ahold of them.
16:20
Speaker 2: Why wouldn't at what point would you just change your
16:23
Speaker 2: phone number to at least have that? Now? Had she
16:25
Speaker 2: I know? Had she I know? You say, had she
16:27
Speaker 2: changed your number? And the mom would know? But why
16:29
Speaker 2: wouldn't did they change the number? Because that would be
16:32
Speaker 2: my thought if it was my kid.
16:33
Speaker 1: No, because that was a question that was asked of Jill,
16:37
Speaker 1: who is Owen's mother, and she said that they felt
16:40
Speaker 1: like it would be fruitless to change his number because
16:43
Speaker 1: his number was always in group text with other kids,
16:46
Speaker 1: and they would have just said that Owen's mother Jill,
16:51
Speaker 1: not Lauren's.
16:51
Speaker 2: Yeah, kendraux I was like, well, of course the criminals
16:54
Speaker 2: go be like, no, don't change it.
16:55
Speaker 1: No, it was Owen's mom that said she didn't think.
17:00
Speaker 2: They never Well, that's crappy. Sorry, that's crappy. You're like, oh,
17:03
Speaker 2: it's an inconvenience in our group chats. So what.
17:07
Speaker 1: It wasn't that it was an inconvenience it was that
17:10
Speaker 1: his number would end up with all his friends and
17:13
Speaker 1: group chats again, so this person who's inside this group
17:16
Speaker 1: would just end up with the number anyway. Because they
17:19
Speaker 1: were so convinced that it was just one of their friends,
17:22
Speaker 1: they didn't know who, so they felt like changing the
17:25
Speaker 1: number would just be pointless.
17:27
Speaker 2: Which is true because the mom would have gotten the
17:29
Speaker 2: new number right.
17:38
Speaker 1: Despite the school's best efforts in trying to track down
17:40
Speaker 1: the student responsible, they got nowhere. And this is when
17:43
Speaker 1: they decided to bring in the sheriff, Michael Maine. And
17:45
Speaker 1: this is in January of twenty twenty two. The sheriff
17:48
Speaker 1: came to the school and questioned ten high schoolers and
17:51
Speaker 1: parents that could be related to the case, but again
17:53
Speaker 1: he got nowhere. At this point, the bully began texting
17:57
Speaker 1: a girl that Owen was seeing at a different high
17:59
Speaker 1: school and a different town. That's very interesting and very
18:02
Speaker 1: significant because I think we'll have to we'll talk about
18:04
Speaker 1: that again later. But even after Lauren and Owen break up,
18:08
Speaker 1: so they're not together anymore, Owen is now dating a
18:11
Speaker 1: girl he met somewhere, I don't know, through sports or
18:14
Speaker 1: something that goes to a different school. She's in a
18:16
Speaker 1: different town. That girl starts getting bullied by the cyber bully,
18:21
Speaker 1: and that girl's mom starts receiving How does she get
18:24
Speaker 1: those numbers? I don't know, but somehow she did and
18:28
Speaker 1: she's bullying those people now. So was there any suspicion
18:35
Speaker 1: towards anyone else other than just these kids at the school.
18:38
Speaker 1: In early February twenty twenty two, Craig Wilson, who is
18:42
Speaker 1: Chloe's dad, he's a police officer, texted a tip to
18:45
Speaker 1: the sheriff and he said, honestly, Mike, I don't know
18:49
Speaker 1: if you know Kenja or not, but you really need
18:51
Speaker 1: to be cautious. There is a pretty good part of
18:53
Speaker 1: me that thinks that she may very well be doing this.
18:57
Speaker 1: So that was interesting, but it didn't go anywhere. At
19:01
Speaker 1: that point. The Ball school secretary Diane Fussman told Principal
19:05
Speaker 1: Boyers she also she also suspected Kendra, which Boyer, this
19:10
Speaker 1: is the principal, found implausible. The secretary stated, quote, I
19:15
Speaker 1: always thought she was a little obsessive, obsessive with her child.
19:18
Speaker 1: My gut told me this just isn't one of our kids. However,
19:22
Speaker 1: when Sheriff Mike Maine asked the McKinney's if Kendra would
19:25
Speaker 1: be capable of such a thing, they immediately turned the
19:28
Speaker 1: theory down. And remember the McKinneys is Owen's family, and
19:31
Speaker 1: these two families were very close. Even though I don't know,
19:36
Speaker 1: I think it's kind of weird when there's like a
19:37
Speaker 1: relationship in the seventh grade because to me, I wouldn't
19:40
Speaker 1: as a parent, I wouldn't want to be facilitating a relationship.
19:43
Speaker 1: My daughter is in the seventh grade.
19:45
Speaker 2: M h solls mine.
19:46
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, really, you have a daughter in the seventh grade.
19:48
Speaker 1: Let me rephrase that our daughter is in the seventh grade.
19:53
Speaker 1: If she comes home and has a boyfriend, I am
19:56
Speaker 1: not going to entertain into that she's young, she's twelve.
20:01
Speaker 1: I'm not going to be asking about him. I'm not
20:03
Speaker 1: going to be taking her to his game.
20:04
Speaker 2: You're going to download the PingER app.
20:06
Speaker 1: I'm going to down and I'm going to harass him,
20:10
Speaker 1: not her. Yes, but I just think it's I don't know,
20:14
Speaker 1: you're a dad, don't you think?
20:16
Speaker 2: Don't you think what you're want to hang out? Hang
20:18
Speaker 2: out in groups, right, mix and mingle. That's all great,
20:21
Speaker 2: but I mean, do you really want the added pressure relationships.
20:24
Speaker 2: I mean, forget the fact that they're young, but right,
20:26
Speaker 2: but no, thank you.
20:27
Speaker 1: It was very much Kindra was very into their relationship
20:32
Speaker 1: and she was always taking photos of them together. And
20:35
Speaker 1: then you know, having Lauren off.
20:38
Speaker 2: Of their their relationship, right well, because then she got
20:43
Speaker 2: to get in the middle of it.
20:44
Speaker 1: Right right. So I don't know, I just think it's
20:48
Speaker 1: weird when parents become so obsessive or integrated or they
20:53
Speaker 1: try to be the.
20:53
Speaker 2: Cool parent, right yeah, like over here you can drink
20:56
Speaker 2: as long as it's in my house. Well, I'm weird.
20:59
Speaker 1: I mean they're young and they're in the seventh grade,
21:00
Speaker 1: and it's like she's taking Lauren to his games and
21:03
Speaker 1: she's planning family trips when he has a.
21:06
Speaker 2: She's gathering intel, she's gathering intel. She's like, what's he wearing?
21:09
Speaker 1: Now?
21:10
Speaker 2: What are they doing now? Because I'm going to bully
21:11
Speaker 2: them on that, and I'm going to bully them on this.
21:13
Speaker 1: Yeah. So these two families were very tight. They vacationed together,
21:18
Speaker 1: they traveled together, they went to games together, they did
21:20
Speaker 1: all these things together, and then they became even more
21:22
Speaker 1: close during the whole COVID nineteen shutdown. I guess they
21:25
Speaker 1: had their own little bubble where they were hanging out
21:27
Speaker 1: a lot. So when Jill, who was Owen's mom, was
21:31
Speaker 1: asked if Kendra could be the one sending the text,
21:34
Speaker 1: she said absolutely not, there's no way.
21:36
Speaker 2: Yeah.
21:36
Speaker 1: Though local law enforcement and the school were trying their
21:39
Speaker 1: best to solve the case, they were getting nowhere. Jill
21:41
Speaker 1: and Kendre were relentless, so law enforcement finally asked an
21:45
Speaker 1: FBI affiliated task force to step in and investigate. Officer Brad
21:50
Speaker 1: Peter was assigned to the case. Now, it's interesting to
21:53
Speaker 1: me that Kendro in the beginning, when you're watching the documentary,
21:56
Speaker 1: and if you don't know anything about the ending, it
21:59
Speaker 1: makes sense that would be so involved in the case
22:02
Speaker 1: because she's the mother. So you're thinking, Okay, this mom
22:06
Speaker 1: is involved and asking questions, calling the police and asking
22:10
Speaker 1: where they are in the investigation, and wanting to be
22:12
Speaker 1: involved with the FBI and going to be yest. So
22:18
Speaker 1: but now that you know it's her and you look
22:21
Speaker 1: back at all these things that she did, it's i
22:24
Speaker 1: mean clear to me at that point that she's staying
22:26
Speaker 1: on top of it as much as possible so that
22:29
Speaker 1: she knows where they're at and how far they've gotten
22:32
Speaker 1: and how much knowledge they have and how close they are.
22:35
Speaker 1: And then maybe she she's an IT person. That was
22:40
Speaker 1: her undergrad, So her undergrad had something to do with
22:42
Speaker 1: computers in IT. And then I believe her career path
22:46
Speaker 1: she coached at this high school, but she also worked
22:49
Speaker 1: in IT and worked in like cell phones or something,
22:52
Speaker 1: and so she clearly has a more intimate and professional
22:56
Speaker 1: knowledge of how all of this works, and she used
23:00
Speaker 1: it to her advantage while also while also embedding herself
23:06
Speaker 1: into this investigation so she could tell exactly where it
23:09
Speaker 1: was at. So Officer Pete Bradley is the FBI person
23:14
Speaker 1: that was assigned to the case. He acted quickly, knowing
23:17
Speaker 1: that Berner Apps only held onto new subscriber records for
23:20
Speaker 1: about two weeks. Jill McKinney was asked to send him
23:23
Speaker 1: the cyber bully's latest phone numbers daily. During this time,
23:27
Speaker 1: Jill started picking up on strange signals from Kendra. Months
23:30
Speaker 1: after their children's breakup, Kendra kept prying into Owen's love
23:34
Speaker 1: interests and asking if he was dating Chloe. In mid May,
23:37
Speaker 1: the bullies sent a text to Lauren that read quote
23:40
Speaker 1: and in all caps, kill yourself now. Bitch geez. A
23:45
Speaker 1: week after this text message, Officer Peter got a hit
23:48
Speaker 1: on it. Well, first what he did, and I read
23:50
Speaker 1: this more detailed, he figured out that the messages were
23:55
Speaker 1: coming from a PingER app. So the first thing he
23:56
Speaker 1: does is he sends a search warrant to PingER. PingER
23:59
Speaker 1: then returns the information and it shows up that these
24:02
Speaker 1: IPNs are related to a Verizon phone.
24:05
Speaker 2: So they're they're cooperative.
24:06
Speaker 1: They're cooperative. Then after he gets that information, he sends
24:10
Speaker 1: a search warrant to Verizon, and then Verizon returns some
24:14
Speaker 1: numbers associated with these IPNs. So it was a very
24:18
Speaker 1: I don't know how long this took, but it was
24:19
Speaker 1: a very convoluted search warrant type of situation where he
24:22
Speaker 1: had to do PingER first and then he had to
24:24
Speaker 1: do Verizon. So then once they get the information back
24:27
Speaker 1: from Verizon, they're cross referencing these numbers, these phone numbers
24:32
Speaker 1: with all the kids in the contacts list, right, and
24:35
Speaker 1: they're not getting any hit.
24:36
Speaker 2: No, because it's not a student.
24:38
Speaker 3: Right.
24:39
Speaker 1: So a week after this text message, the one saying
24:41
Speaker 1: kill yourself now, bitch, Officer Peter got a hit on
24:44
Speaker 1: the Verizon ip addresses that he was digging into and
24:47
Speaker 1: he found that only one number had matched his records,
24:50
Speaker 1: and it led back to Kendra Lacari. So that's when
24:53
Speaker 1: they know, and I know I in the documentary. Maybe
24:56
Speaker 1: I read it because I did a lot of research
24:57
Speaker 1: outside the documentary, But I think initially he thought this
25:01
Speaker 1: can't be right because this is the mom. So they
25:03
Speaker 1: kept he kept cross referencing right, and it just kept
25:07
Speaker 1: coming up that it was her number attached to her.
25:12
Speaker 1: So on August tenth of twenty twenty two, Sheriff Maine
25:14
Speaker 1: appeared at Sean's mother's residence, where Sean, Kendra, and Lauren
25:19
Speaker 1: were residing at the time. Now there is a cut
25:22
Speaker 1: article out there if you want to read it. It's
25:24
Speaker 1: super long. I read it twice. It goes into detail
25:28
Speaker 1: about this whole situation, the saga. It's way more detailed
25:32
Speaker 1: than the documentary is. The documentary takes you through the timeline,
25:35
Speaker 1: but this article written by the cut it's very detailed
25:39
Speaker 1: as to things that happened, conversations that took place. You know,
25:43
Speaker 1: and when they go to arrest Kendra, I couldn't. I
25:47
Speaker 1: was confused whether she and Sean were together or they
25:49
Speaker 1: were separated. I know they were having financial problems, and
25:54
Speaker 1: you find out a lot when the police officer shows up,
25:57
Speaker 1: and apparently the house he shows up to is Sean's parents' home,
26:02
Speaker 1: which I believe they were probably living there, maybe for free,
26:05
Speaker 1: because they had lost several other homes, they had been evicted,
26:08
Speaker 1: they had foreclosed on, and all these financial things that
26:12
Speaker 1: kept happening. Kendra kept telling her husband it was because
26:15
Speaker 1: of scammers, and he was clearly believing her. It was like, oh, well,
26:20
Speaker 1: our house fore closed on us because someone stole my
26:23
Speaker 1: identity and stole our money, or you know, I couldn't
26:27
Speaker 1: pay these bills, and the you know, the storage unit
26:30
Speaker 1: where all your two tools were got taken away because
26:33
Speaker 1: someone scammed us, And it was just scam after scam
26:37
Speaker 1: was her excuse, where clearly we know now that she's
26:41
Speaker 1: just she's a pathological liar. The sheriff had a search
26:46
Speaker 1: warrant and approached Kendra outside of the house while Lauren
26:50
Speaker 1: was in the backyard and Sean was at work. The
26:52
Speaker 1: confrontation was captured on body camera footage and is featured
26:56
Speaker 1: in the Netflix documentary. After Kendra admits to the crime,
27:00
Speaker 1: the sheriff calls Lauren into the house to discuss everything.
27:04
Speaker 2: However, okay, this she admits. So when they approach her
27:07
Speaker 2: body camp foot, she confesses.
27:10
Speaker 1: Well sort of. I found this whole situation really frustrating.
27:14
Speaker 1: I'm going to read you what the officer says.
27:16
Speaker 2: Okay, but at this time, when they're approaching her, they're
27:18
Speaker 2: approaching her as a suspect.
27:20
Speaker 1: They're approaching her, well, they have a search warrant to
27:23
Speaker 1: get her cell phones, right, okay, so she's not being
27:25
Speaker 1: arrested at this time. They're approaching her as basically like,
27:28
Speaker 1: we know you did it, we have a search warrant,
27:30
Speaker 1: we need your phoney. But and I like to give
27:34
Speaker 1: grace to police officers. I'm not in that position. I
27:37
Speaker 1: don't know what that's like. And maybe I feel like
27:39
Speaker 1: maybe when he went to talk to her and to
27:42
Speaker 1: he has a search warrant and he's going to get
27:43
Speaker 1: the phones. Maybe his approach with her was more of
27:46
Speaker 1: a soft approach to get her to confess, most likely
27:49
Speaker 1: because he never actually is direct with her. And I'll
27:54
Speaker 1: read you the conversation, and I feel like he's playing
27:57
Speaker 1: a very good cop role so that she feels a rapport.
28:02
Speaker 2: Well that and it's easier to do that and then
28:04
Speaker 2: she hands over the phone rather than you have to
28:06
Speaker 2: tackle her and arrest her for not cooperating with the
28:08
Speaker 2: warrant and then take the phone. You know what I mean.
28:10
Speaker 2: So you want someone to comply.
28:13
Speaker 1: So this is what he says when he walks up.
28:14
Speaker 1: I'm going to start the conversation. You guys have been
28:17
Speaker 1: under a lot of stress recently, some moves going on,
28:20
Speaker 1: some financial issues and everything else going on. Mom got
28:24
Speaker 1: wrapped up in some stuff and she didn't start it,
28:26
Speaker 1: but she will continue it. So we have found some
28:28
Speaker 1: evidence and have a search warrant. We're gonna take her
28:31
Speaker 1: phone and stuff. Sometimes when we aren't thinking straight, we
28:34
Speaker 1: do some things that aren't right, Like I it's just there's.
28:38
Speaker 2: Never no that's That's like cops always when they interrogate,
28:40
Speaker 2: they always say, you're not a bad person. You just
28:42
Speaker 2: made some mistakes. Now tell us where the bodies are. Yeah,
28:45
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. It's like, yeah, because you
28:48
Speaker 2: got you want cooperation. At the end of the day,
28:51
Speaker 2: it doesn't matter what the cops says. That he says
28:52
Speaker 2: you're not a bad person. That's not gonna be use
28:54
Speaker 2: in jail or in a courtroom or anything like that.
28:56
Speaker 2: So they say whatever, and the opposite is sure they'll
28:59
Speaker 2: lie to you as well, right to get you to confess.
29:01
Speaker 1: I don't know. I just I was so when I
29:03
Speaker 1: was watching that scene, I was just I was frustrated
29:07
Speaker 1: because I wanted him to explicitly say, you were the one.
29:12
Speaker 1: We know, you know, the person texting your daughter, we
29:15
Speaker 1: know you were the cyberbully. But like he never says that,
29:17
Speaker 1: it's embarrassing.
29:18
Speaker 2: How you are. You always want to just confront and
29:21
Speaker 2: just yell at someone right then and there. And that's patience, lady, patience.
29:25
Speaker 1: Okay, he's giving me a reunion tips right now.
29:30
Speaker 2: I'm giving you life tips.
29:31
Speaker 1: Okay, all right, So then the officer calls Lauren. Also,
29:42
Speaker 1: by the way, I noticed this, and I saw a
29:44
Speaker 1: lot of other people talking about this. When they go
29:46
Speaker 1: inside this house, they're behind them or behind the counter.
29:53
Speaker 1: There is like eight thousand bottles of alcohol. Like I
29:56
Speaker 1: don't know, I don't know if they're empty or full,
29:59
Speaker 1: but it's like, and I'm not talking like beer bottles.
30:01
Speaker 1: It looks like a full on like like bar, like
30:05
Speaker 1: a liquor. Like yeah, it's like a bevemo in her
30:08
Speaker 1: living room or in the kitchen area, and I'm like,
30:10
Speaker 1: what is going on back there? But that's just an
30:13
Speaker 1: interesting point that I felt like I should bring up. Okay, Anyway,
30:18
Speaker 1: then the officer asked for Lauren to come into the house.
30:21
Speaker 1: Now here's my other question. They are about to tell
30:24
Speaker 1: Lauren that her mother is the person who has been
30:27
Speaker 1: cyber bullying her for two years and telled her to
30:30
Speaker 1: kill herself and called her every name under the book,
30:33
Speaker 1: and made fun of all her insecurities and said bang
30:36
Speaker 1: bang dead, suicide, kill yourself, bitch, skink hoe and sent
30:41
Speaker 1: sexually explicit like discussing text messages about BJ's and all
30:46
Speaker 1: kinds of stuff. Okay, so this is what this child
30:50
Speaker 1: child has been dealing with for two years.
30:53
Speaker 2: I just felt like in that moment, that wasn't the
30:56
Speaker 2: way to do it.
30:57
Speaker 1: That wasn't the way to tell her.
30:58
Speaker 2: She's probably a family member around, right, like her dad.
31:02
Speaker 1: They called her dad Sean, He's an innocent, he doesn't
31:06
Speaker 1: know any of this. Uh. They call him and tell
31:09
Speaker 1: him to come home. So he's on his way home.
31:11
Speaker 1: He has not gotten there yet, And.
31:13
Speaker 2: I just felt I think they just waited a little bit.
31:16
Speaker 2: I felt they should have told she's a miner too, right, Yes,
31:19
Speaker 2: they should have told the father right and then and
31:23
Speaker 2: then let him tell her right or or they wanted
31:27
Speaker 2: the reaction. They're like, oh, I got to see this. No,
31:29
Speaker 2: I want to tell her, No, I want to tell her.
31:31
Speaker 2: I'm going to tell her.
31:32
Speaker 1: I don't know. I just I just felt like it
31:36
Speaker 1: was just a really and I don't know what's And
31:41
Speaker 1: again this is what annoys me. Again. When he tells Lauren,
31:45
Speaker 1: he uses very vague language, so I don't even know.
31:49
Speaker 2: What I mean, Like he doesn't want to be direct,
31:50
Speaker 2: like he's he's dancing around.
31:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is what he says to Lauren. We're gonna
31:56
Speaker 1: take her phone and stuff. Sometimes when we aren't thinking straight,
31:59
Speaker 1: we do some things that aren't right. Your mom doesn't
32:02
Speaker 1: want this to get out, but it is some public information,
32:05
Speaker 1: so it's not going to not get out. I want
32:07
Speaker 1: to be honest about that, all.
32:08
Speaker 2: Right, Like this is yeah, No, I don't know what
32:10
Speaker 2: that means.
32:11
Speaker 1: So when Lauren's sitting there next to her mom, her
32:14
Speaker 1: mom is hugging her and crying, and Lauren is just
32:18
Speaker 1: sitting there and she has no emotion on her face.
32:20
Speaker 1: And this is what the police officer says to her.
32:23
Speaker 1: And I've heard so many people say, why isn't she mad?
32:25
Speaker 1: Why is it she doesn't know what the heck's going on?
32:27
Speaker 1: And in my mind, I'm thinking, does she even understand that.
32:30
Speaker 2: This officer is telling No, I wouldn't by what you
32:34
Speaker 2: were reading, I wouldn't know what that means. Right, Yeah,
32:36
Speaker 2: he was dancing around the issue he was. I mean,
32:38
Speaker 2: we already said he shouldn't have told her anyway in
32:41
Speaker 2: that forum. But if he was in a tell her
32:43
Speaker 2: to be like, hey, we found the catfish. She's sitting
32:45
Speaker 2: right next to you, hugging you, right.
32:48
Speaker 1: But I it's two things for me. Either one, Lauren's
32:51
Speaker 1: reaction is based on the fact that she did not
32:54
Speaker 1: understand exactly what was going on and what he was insinuating,
32:58
Speaker 1: because there is no direct laneguage saying no, mom is
33:02
Speaker 1: the cyberbully that's been sending you these texts. We have evidence,
33:05
Speaker 1: we found out it's her, So there's there's nothing direct
33:08
Speaker 1: that and we're talking again about a child or two.
33:12
Speaker 1: If she does understand somewhat what he's talking about, I
33:16
Speaker 1: feel like she's been traumatized for so long that she
33:19
Speaker 1: was just disassociating.
33:22
Speaker 2: And there's no You could ask her at a list
33:24
Speaker 2: one hundred people who she thought it might be, and
33:26
Speaker 2: it wouldn't be her mom. So then here you are
33:28
Speaker 2: dancing around the issue, kind of making light of it
33:31
Speaker 2: or not being direct, and then all of a sudden,
33:33
Speaker 2: she's supposed to put all that together and think it's
33:35
Speaker 2: her mom.
33:36
Speaker 1: Right. Then the dad shows up and he comes. Well,
33:40
Speaker 1: first of all, I don't remember exactly what he said,
33:42
Speaker 1: but someone could tell me if you watch it recently.
33:44
Speaker 1: But I found this really interesting. When the dad shows up,
33:46
Speaker 1: he gets out of the car. They have the bodycam
33:48
Speaker 1: footage of him. They're talking to him before he goes
33:50
Speaker 1: in the house. They tell him that it's his wife.
33:53
Speaker 1: He's shocked by it. Shocked. They also tell I want
33:58
Speaker 1: to see right. They also tell him that not only
34:01
Speaker 1: is she the cyberbully that's been, you know, bullying his
34:04
Speaker 1: daughter for two years, but that Kindra has been lying
34:08
Speaker 1: about having a job and she hasn't been working. She's
34:11
Speaker 1: been telling her husband that she works for like a
34:13
Speaker 1: Farris university.
34:14
Speaker 2: And what does she do with the paychecks? They supposed
34:17
Speaker 2: a paycheck.
34:17
Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying. And that's why they've gotten evicted.
34:20
Speaker 2: Everything.
34:20
Speaker 1: Yeah, she had had she had not worked for a year,
34:23
Speaker 1: she had been let go from her job. She had
34:25
Speaker 1: told her husband that she had gotten a higher paying
34:28
Speaker 1: job and she was working at it.
34:30
Speaker 2: But she might didn't work for one day. You would
34:32
Speaker 2: be like, what's.
34:33
Speaker 1: Going on immediately, like, I don't know.
34:36
Speaker 2: Sean, she might didn't get a paycheck in the mail
34:39
Speaker 2: or drek pozi, you'd be on top of that.
34:41
Speaker 1: They talk about it in this cut article that I
34:44
Speaker 1: was referencing. They go deep deeper into this relationship and
34:47
Speaker 1: their financial problems. So Sean worked at he like changed
34:52
Speaker 1: oil at a auto place, one of those you know,
34:55
Speaker 1: like probably fast places and whatever it's called quick lube
35:00
Speaker 1: or whatever. You know what I'm talking about. But anyway,
35:03
Speaker 1: Kendra was supposedly the breadwinner because she had this IT background.
35:07
Speaker 1: But I'm thinking, how were they even managing how First
35:11
Speaker 1: of all, she had three cell phones? How is she
35:13
Speaker 1: paying for three cell phones?
35:14
Speaker 2: Well? The thing the thing isn't his job. The thing
35:17
Speaker 2: is if they're dependent on the two, if they're two
35:19
Speaker 2: income family and she only has one, like, you'd question
35:22
Speaker 2: even more if finances are an issue.
35:25
Speaker 1: I don't know why he didn't question it more. I
35:28
Speaker 1: don't know why he didn't ask to look at things.
35:29
Speaker 1: I don't know why he couldn't pull up bank records
35:32
Speaker 1: or ask for something that showed him her work deposits
35:35
Speaker 1: being made. I tell you you you have a job.
35:39
Speaker 1: I'm on the case. I am on the case. I
35:41
Speaker 1: want to see the checks. I want to see the deposits.
35:43
Speaker 1: I want to know exactly how much money you're making
35:45
Speaker 1: and bringing home. I don't understand this whole well. Kendra
35:48
Speaker 1: has a job and she's taking care of it. However,
35:51
Speaker 1: we've been evicted four times in the past year, and
35:53
Speaker 1: I lost all my tools because we didn't pay the
35:56
Speaker 1: storage fee. And I mean, he just seemed to I
36:02
Speaker 1: think maybe he was just checked out in that marriage.
36:04
Speaker 2: Is this their only child?
36:05
Speaker 1: Yeah, they only have the one daughter. When Shawn comes
36:08
Speaker 1: up and the police tell him, not only does he
36:10
Speaker 1: learn that his wife has been bullying his daughter, but
36:12
Speaker 1: he also learns that she hasn't been working for a
36:14
Speaker 1: year and she got fired and she's been lying about everything,
36:18
Speaker 1: and he says something to the cop. I don't remember
36:20
Speaker 1: the exact thing, but when they tell him that she's
36:22
Speaker 1: the one that's been cyber bullying the daughter. He says
36:25
Speaker 1: something to the effect of are you going to arrest her?
36:27
Speaker 1: And and the way he said it made me think
36:31
Speaker 1: he wanted her to be arrested. Like the way he
36:34
Speaker 1: asked was like, so you're gonna arrest her, right? And
36:38
Speaker 1: I just thought that that was interesting. I don't remember
36:41
Speaker 1: exactly what he said, but the sentiment was like, so,
36:43
Speaker 1: so you're here to take her away, right? Right? So anyway,
36:47
Speaker 1: Sean walks into the house and he's livid, obviously, and
36:50
Speaker 1: he's telling Kendor she needs to get out, she has
36:53
Speaker 1: to take her stuff and go, and he tells her
36:55
Speaker 1: to call her parents and have her parents come get her.
36:58
Speaker 1: And he says, I can't do this right now, to
37:00
Speaker 1: talk about it in front.
37:00
Speaker 2: Of the way. So they said no, we're not going
37:02
Speaker 2: to arrest her, and then he goes in and kicked
37:04
Speaker 2: her out.
37:05
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I don't know if they said no
37:07
Speaker 1: where yes at.
37:08
Speaker 2: That moment, Well, they didn't arrest her.
37:09
Speaker 1: They didn't arrest her because they get up.
37:11
Speaker 2: He says, go go a little with your parents.
37:13
Speaker 1: No he does. He walks in and he says, I
37:15
Speaker 1: don't want to be around you, and you have to
37:16
Speaker 1: leave and you've been lying and you're not working, and
37:19
Speaker 1: I thought you were working. He's more really, honestly, the
37:22
Speaker 1: questioning of his wife is more about the jobs and
37:24
Speaker 1: not working as opposed to the cyber bullying. So I
37:28
Speaker 1: saw a lot of people making comments on Reddit about
37:30
Speaker 1: how they didn't like that he.
37:31
Speaker 2: Was more focused on our outcome and.
37:34
Speaker 1: That she wasn't working and she'd been lying about having
37:37
Speaker 1: a job as opposed to what she'd been doing to
37:39
Speaker 1: their daughter.
37:39
Speaker 2: Well, maybe it's just more like like you're this fake
37:42
Speaker 2: person in this household overall right with your job and
37:46
Speaker 2: the way you're you're hiding and pinging my daughter or whatever.
37:49
Speaker 1: It is, right, But I did I did think that
37:52
Speaker 1: the way he handled it was mature because he did say,
37:56
Speaker 1: this is going to escalate and I don't want it to.
37:59
Speaker 1: So you need to call your parents and have your
38:01
Speaker 1: parents come and get you, and you need to go somewhere.
38:03
Speaker 2: Yeah we need to eliminate. Yeah, we need to take
38:05
Speaker 2: you out of this equation.
38:06
Speaker 1: And I felt like that was a mature, safe way
38:10
Speaker 1: for him.
38:11
Speaker 2: To handle it, handle it at that moment and.
38:13
Speaker 1: To be away from her. Also, they don't say in
38:17
Speaker 1: this documentary or not whether they ended up divorced, because
38:19
Speaker 1: I'm like, surely he divorced her after this, right, And
38:22
Speaker 1: I couldn't find a lot.
38:23
Speaker 2: You asked me to look it up. I remember that.
38:25
Speaker 2: Yeah at least, No, you didn't ask me to look up.
38:27
Speaker 2: You just kept walking around the house forever wondering how
38:30
Speaker 2: that if they're married or not. So I was like,
38:31
Speaker 2: I'll just look it up.
38:32
Speaker 1: Finally, No, I did search, and I did finally.
38:36
Speaker 2: Yeah, what do you find?
38:36
Speaker 1: I found articles that confirmed that he did divorce her
38:39
Speaker 1: and he got full custody of Lauren, so right.
38:43
Speaker 2: I mean their financial statements was just a big zero.
38:47
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean there's no money to divide up, so right.
38:50
Speaker 2: No, no house apparently, no tools, nothing.
38:53
Speaker 1: No, his truck got repossessed too, or his car whatever
38:57
Speaker 1: it is that he drove was repossessed as well.
38:59
Speaker 2: So yeah, he's good to get rid of her.
39:02
Speaker 1: My question to you, as a dad, if you found
39:05
Speaker 1: out that, let's say Annabel went through two years of
39:08
Speaker 1: cyber bowling, because she's the same I found out it
39:11
Speaker 1: was you, and then you found out it was me.
39:13
Speaker 2: I'd have the same thought. Are you going to arrest her? Really? Please?
39:17
Speaker 2: Take this woman away?
39:18
Speaker 1: From us, I assume you would divorce me. Yeah, of course,
39:21
Speaker 1: Oh oh, you didn't even have to think about it.
39:23
Speaker 1: It's not even like a let me just hear her
39:25
Speaker 1: side of it.
39:26
Speaker 2: Well, the first those wouldn't be the first thoughts. My
39:28
Speaker 2: first thoughts would be my daughter, what is going on?
39:31
Speaker 2: Why are you doing this? You know, like why?
39:34
Speaker 1: It would probably be the big question, right, which we
39:36
Speaker 1: will get into because I think it's important to discuss
39:38
Speaker 1: the why.
39:38
Speaker 2: Oh do we have an answer?
39:41
Speaker 1: Well, I think there's a lot of different theories. So
39:43
Speaker 1: what was Kendra's reasoning for doing this? So per her
39:46
Speaker 1: interview in the Netflix documentary, You know, I think I've
39:50
Speaker 1: seen other people that didn't like that the documentary gave
39:54
Speaker 1: her a voice, But I thought that that was that
39:57
Speaker 1: was good. I mean, you already know she's a mom.
40:00
Speaker 2: It's really she's already in jail, she goes.
40:02
Speaker 1: To prison, she gets nineteen months in prison.
40:04
Speaker 2: That's it.
40:05
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's it. But you already know by the end
40:08
Speaker 1: of the documentary, what a horrible, horrible I can't even
40:12
Speaker 1: think about it.
40:13
Speaker 2: That's perfect.
40:14
Speaker 1: So the fact that the documentary maker allowed her to
40:17
Speaker 1: come in and tell her own story, regardless of whether
40:21
Speaker 1: you like what she says or not. It makes for
40:23
Speaker 1: good TV for this woman to decay.
40:25
Speaker 2: I wouldn't want to pick her brain and know what
40:26
Speaker 2: was going on. So told me they do that all
40:29
Speaker 2: the time. They always interviewed criminals, right.
40:31
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people found her so repulsive
40:33
Speaker 1: and so discussing that they felt like she shouldn't have
40:36
Speaker 1: even been given a platform to even try sensing.
40:38
Speaker 2: She also require like no phone cell phone usage for
40:42
Speaker 2: like twenty years or something. Yeah.
40:52
Speaker 1: Kindred told detectives that she did not send the original
40:54
Speaker 1: batch of messages that the kids received back in October
40:57
Speaker 1: of twenty twenty, but rather she just fed off of
41:00
Speaker 1: it and began to send them herself in September of
41:02
Speaker 1: twenty twenty one. She says she got caught up in
41:05
Speaker 1: sending the messages and that it just continued. Kindra claimed
41:09
Speaker 1: to have started her own texting campaign to try to
41:12
Speaker 1: catch who was allegedly harassing her daughter in the first place.
41:15
Speaker 1: Well that's an excuse. It's basically like, remember those first
41:18
Speaker 1: round of messages that came through, But she's like, oh,
41:20
Speaker 1: I started harassing her and sending messages with the second
41:23
Speaker 1: round because I was trying to you know, figure out
41:26
Speaker 1: who it was, like someone would reveal themselves or something.
41:29
Speaker 1: I mean, it doesn't really make sense.
41:32
Speaker 2: It'd be like if there's five thousand messages that she
41:34
Speaker 2: sent her daughter and she's like, hey, but those four
41:36
Speaker 2: I didn't send. It's like, well, who cares? Right, damage
41:39
Speaker 2: is done.
41:39
Speaker 1: She claims. I was sending messages in the hopes that
41:42
Speaker 1: they might send something back, saying is this so and so?
41:45
Speaker 1: She says in the series, I started with the thought
41:47
Speaker 1: we need some answers, and then it just kept going. Then,
41:50
Speaker 1: Kendra said the trauma that she experienced as a teen
41:53
Speaker 1: fueled her desire to protect her daughter from harm at
41:55
Speaker 1: all costs. She claims allegedly when she was seventeen that
41:59
Speaker 1: she was and as my daughter was hitting those teenage years,
42:02
Speaker 1: I got scared, very scared. I didn't want her to
42:05
Speaker 1: go through that process that I did, and I think
42:06
Speaker 1: that really led me to not knowing how to handle things.
42:09
Speaker 2: Now, you know, not buying it.
42:11
Speaker 1: I'm not buying it either. I feel like that's just
42:13
Speaker 1: some retro actions. Has turned it back on to her
42:16
Speaker 1: type of.
42:16
Speaker 2: Exp I wanted to be a good mom and I was,
42:19
Speaker 2: you know, I had trauma and I just wanted to
42:21
Speaker 2: be a good mom and I didn't know how to
42:22
Speaker 2: do it. Now she's turning it back on her.
42:24
Speaker 1: You know. I thought it was really a brilliant comparison
42:27
Speaker 1: that the principle made when he said it's Munchausen by
42:31
Speaker 1: computer or whatever. He said, Munchausen by internet. And if
42:37
Speaker 1: you think about Munchausen syndrome, if you don't know what
42:39
Speaker 1: it is, it's basically the root of the Gypsy Rose
42:43
Speaker 1: Blanchard case. It was the mom that was pretending that
42:47
Speaker 1: her daughter was sick and the reasoning for her doing it.
42:50
Speaker 1: I don't think the attention was to get attention. It
42:52
Speaker 1: was to get money.
42:54
Speaker 2: Intention. It could be attention to money, feelings, time, recognition,
42:59
Speaker 2: or you know, recognition like you're a great mom, you're
43:02
Speaker 2: taking care of this sick child.
43:04
Speaker 1: Right. So that's called Munchausen by proxy. It actually has
43:06
Speaker 1: a different name now, but at that time it's Munchausen
43:09
Speaker 1: by proxy because the Munchausen is when you pretend yourself
43:12
Speaker 1: to be sick for attention.
43:14
Speaker 2: I think that it's like fictitious disorder or something.
43:18
Speaker 1: But Munchausen by proxy is when you pretend someone close
43:23
Speaker 1: to you like a daughter in this case is sick,
43:27
Speaker 1: and then you feed off of that because you get attention.
43:30
Speaker 1: And I don't know if that's I think it Munchausen
43:33
Speaker 1: by proxy sounds exactly like what Kendrick's doing, because she's
43:36
Speaker 1: not she's not making her daughter sick, but she is.
43:39
Speaker 1: She's stressing her daughter out.
43:40
Speaker 2: Well, she's making her daughter a victim of something. Yeah,
43:42
Speaker 2: and then everyone.
43:43
Speaker 1: Has and then everybody's rallying around her and giving them
43:46
Speaker 1: attention and all these things. The behavior often feeds on itself,
43:50
Speaker 1: becoming addictive or compulsive, according to patients. Clearly Kendra was
43:54
Speaker 1: addicted to this. I mean, there's no doubt in my
43:55
Speaker 1: mind that whatever she's.
43:57
Speaker 2: Told the job she was doing this twenty four securs well.
44:00
Speaker 1: I think she lost the job before she started doing it,
44:02
Speaker 1: or maybe she lost the job because she was doing it.
44:05
Speaker 1: I don't know of the exact timeline there, but she
44:08
Speaker 1: clearly didn't have a job, so she had all day
44:10
Speaker 1: to send these messages, to think about what she was
44:12
Speaker 1: going to say, to follow these kids around, to be
44:15
Speaker 1: in the school parking lot, to coach, all these different things,
44:19
Speaker 1: so that she's highly involved in the school and all
44:21
Speaker 1: these kids. So these ruses are easy to do on
44:24
Speaker 1: the Internet. We were talking about this last night when
44:25
Speaker 1: I said they've now they've said that now there's a
44:28
Speaker 1: Munchausen by Internet now that they use that term because
44:31
Speaker 1: now with the digital age, it's easy to get attention
44:36
Speaker 1: sympathy by pretending.
44:38
Speaker 2: Going into a chat room or something, and we're creating
44:41
Speaker 2: a website saying I'm sick and go fund me and
44:44
Speaker 2: all this stuff.
44:44
Speaker 1: Right, Like, if anybody's watched Coamanda, that's another one, if
44:48
Speaker 1: you know anything about that. That's a girl that fakes cancer,
44:51
Speaker 1: sets up a website and goes to great links to
44:54
Speaker 1: con people into thinking she has cancer, and then she
44:56
Speaker 1: takes hundreds of thousands of dollars in donations. So I
45:00
Speaker 1: don't know. I mean, it's it's interesting because they do
45:03
Speaker 1: talk about Kendra's personality a lot. They interview her cousin
45:08
Speaker 1: and then some of the other moms, and they talk
45:09
Speaker 1: about how she had this innate need all the time
45:13
Speaker 1: to be the center of attention, like she was always
45:15
Speaker 1: dancing in front of cameras and always talking about her
45:18
Speaker 1: daughter and always being everywhere. And so I don't know,
45:21
Speaker 1: I think she suffered from something that made her feel
45:24
Speaker 1: like she had to have all this attention all the time.
45:27
Speaker 2: It was the daughter doing now. Was there an update
45:29
Speaker 2: like daughter and father?
45:31
Speaker 1: Yeah, what I've read is Lauren's doing well. There's actually
45:36
Speaker 1: if you watch the documentary phone number, she has a
45:38
Speaker 1: new phone number now, a new phone. She's with her dad.
45:41
Speaker 1: They have a very close bond. They do hunting and
45:43
Speaker 1: sports and all this stuff together. He seems like a
45:45
Speaker 1: great dad. I have to give that guy a lot
45:47
Speaker 1: of credit.
45:47
Speaker 2: They probably can now build a relationship that they couldn't before.
45:50
Speaker 2: It's difficult to do before.
45:51
Speaker 1: Now, when you watch the documentary, there is Lauren when
45:54
Speaker 1: she has on Pink that was filmed about two years before.
45:58
Speaker 1: So this is there's Lauren and a gray hoodie. That's
46:02
Speaker 1: when she's like eighteen. So there's two different versions of
46:05
Speaker 1: Lauren in the documentary. And when you see the Lauren
46:07
Speaker 1: when she's interviewed in Pink, she's very meek, very timid.
46:12
Speaker 1: She doesn't have a big, strong personality. She still claims
46:15
Speaker 1: to love her mom and wants to see her mom
46:17
Speaker 1: and wants to be around her mom. And it doesn't
46:19
Speaker 1: really make.
46:19
Speaker 2: It anything fast.
46:22
Speaker 1: They don't really say that what the time frame is.
46:26
Speaker 1: They don't give that away. But when they show Lauren
46:28
Speaker 1: and like the gray hoodie, that's the Lauren that's the
46:31
Speaker 1: most today, and that seems to be the Lauren that
46:34
Speaker 1: looks to me as if she's processed through it. She
46:37
Speaker 1: understands what her mom did, she understands how horrific it was.
46:40
Speaker 1: She's pulled away from her, she hasn't seen her. She
46:43
Speaker 1: says that she's kind of ready to see her when
46:45
Speaker 1: the time is right, but that's not now. So she
46:48
Speaker 1: seems to be more I don't know, mature about yeah,
46:54
Speaker 1: and understanding more of like how horrible her mother was
46:59
Speaker 1: and what she did to her. Another reason that people
47:01
Speaker 1: think it's impressive that possibly Kendrew did this was because
47:05
Speaker 1: she was actually obsessed with Owen. So through the Netflix documentary,
47:10
Speaker 1: it doesn't dive much into this theory, and that's probably
47:13
Speaker 1: because in order to get people to participate in the
47:15
Speaker 1: documentary and to give interviews, they probably don't dive into
47:19
Speaker 1: things that people are uncomfortable talking about. But the Cut
47:23
Speaker 1: article proves that many signs lead to this, and the
47:26
Speaker 1: McKinney family believes this story to be true too. After
47:28
Speaker 1: Lauren started dating Owen, Kendre would come along too. At
47:32
Speaker 1: every opportunity, she would ask them to wrap their arms
47:34
Speaker 1: around each other for photos and she would turn them
47:36
Speaker 1: into presence for Owen. Kendra signed up to coach Owen's
47:40
Speaker 1: track team. I thought that was odd, not her daughter's track.
47:43
Speaker 2: I figure she just wanted to keep alling around so
47:44
Speaker 2: she could have something to harass her daughter about.
47:47
Speaker 1: I think she was obsessed with Owen.
47:48
Speaker 2: She's probably well, she has a nut anyway, who cares?
47:51
Speaker 2: Put her in jail? Lock her up.
47:54
Speaker 1: At a volleyball match in August of twenty twenty one,
47:56
Speaker 1: Owen and Lauren sat apart from each other. Their relationship
48:00
Speaker 1: was extremely strained at this time due to the cyber bullying,
48:03
Speaker 1: and Lauren started getting text from her mother, who could
48:06
Speaker 1: see them across the gym, not sitting together. And this
48:08
Speaker 1: is what she said. This is the text messages. Sit
48:10
Speaker 1: next to him, answer me, come here now. I'm pissed.
48:15
Speaker 1: Move your ass now now, I am fuming, pissed off.
48:19
Speaker 1: This is freaking ridiculous. Answer me and move your ass.
48:23
Speaker 2: Like next to Owen. Yeah geez.
48:26
Speaker 1: As the cyber bully, Kendra sent sexually explicit text messages
48:30
Speaker 1: regarding Owen. He wants sex BJ's and making out. He
48:34
Speaker 1: doesn't want your sorry ass. It is obvious he wants me.
48:37
Speaker 1: His attention is constantly on me. Not sure what he
48:39
Speaker 1: told you, but he's coming to the Halloween party and
48:41
Speaker 1: we are both DTF. You know what DTF is?
48:46
Speaker 2: No, yeah, I think so. Do you have fun? Yes?
48:51
Speaker 1: Down to have fun? And as the cyber bully, Kendra
48:55
Speaker 1: harassed Owen's girlfriend that he was seeing after he and
48:58
Speaker 1: Lauren broke up. I think you know, you can break
49:03
Speaker 1: it down all day long at the end of the day.
49:05
Speaker 1: I don't know the real reasons. It probably was to
49:07
Speaker 1: get attention. It probably was some type of munchause and
49:10
Speaker 1: syndrome which would drive Lauren closer to her mom because
49:13
Speaker 1: she's being cyberbullied. I think Kendra was obsessed with Owen.
49:16
Speaker 1: There might be some kind of weird thing there. I mean,
49:19
Speaker 1: that's not unheard.
49:20
Speaker 2: None of those theories mitigate, right, the criminality and the immorality.
49:26
Speaker 1: Of what she did exactly, none of it. Just before
49:31
Speaker 1: we end this episode, because we've been talking, I could
49:33
Speaker 1: talk forever about this. I could just sit here and
49:35
Speaker 1: analyze Kendra all day long. But there are some other
49:39
Speaker 1: points that I wanted to just ask or just discuss.
49:42
Speaker 1: You know, she was only charged with two counts of
49:45
Speaker 1: stalking a minor and two counts of communicating with another
49:48
Speaker 1: to commit a crime.
49:49
Speaker 2: Why not abuse or something?
49:51
Speaker 1: Then she ultimately cut a deal and pleaded guilty to
49:54
Speaker 1: two counts of stalking a minor in exchange for the
49:56
Speaker 1: other charges being dropped. She was sentenced in April of
49:59
Speaker 1: twenty twenty three to a minimum of nineteen months in jail.
50:03
Speaker 1: My question is, and I'm not I don't know the answer,
50:06
Speaker 1: but I don't understand why she wasn't charged with child abuse.
50:08
Speaker 2: That's yeah, that's what I was wondering.
50:10
Speaker 1: I mean, I went to Michigan's statue for child abuse,
50:14
Speaker 1: and I mean a person is guilty of child abuse
50:17
Speaker 1: if you know they cause serious physical or mental harms.
50:20
Speaker 2: Was a child or did she plead?
50:22
Speaker 1: She pleaded, and everybody went to her sentencing, but she no,
50:26
Speaker 1: she was never initially charged with child abuse. I'm saying
50:28
Speaker 1: the DA and the case like never charged her with
50:31
Speaker 1: child abuse. And I don't understand that other than maybe
50:34
Speaker 1: he was just trying to be sympathetic to a mom
50:36
Speaker 1: and daughter, or.
50:38
Speaker 2: Maybe before the charges were oppressed, they they had discussions
50:41
Speaker 2: and it was.
50:43
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean she did. She isn't. She did go
50:45
Speaker 1: to therapy, and she did take parenting classes.
50:47
Speaker 2: Over good for her. Yes, I'm sure she's turned a
50:49
Speaker 2: new lead, right.
50:51
Speaker 1: I'm sure maybe that was part of some initial conversations.
50:55
Speaker 1: You know, I don't know that she would do those things.
50:59
Speaker 1: So while kend Her was in prison, she was constantly
51:01
Speaker 1: in contact with her daughter, trying to continue their relationship
51:04
Speaker 1: like normal. During that time that she's in prison. Kendra
51:07
Speaker 1: also wrote back to Lauren. Her name's Lauren Smiley. She's
51:10
Speaker 1: the one that wrote this article for The Cut. And
51:13
Speaker 1: from the article, Kendra thanked me for seeking her side
51:16
Speaker 1: of the story and said she'd be ready to talk
51:18
Speaker 1: after her release. But then she never replied again. However,
51:21
Speaker 1: she did send an email and this is what the
51:23
Speaker 1: email said. I found this email interesting because I felt like, again,
51:26
Speaker 1: it's just typical Kendra. She says to this is a
51:31
Speaker 1: person that wrote the Cut article. I do ask that
51:34
Speaker 1: you truly think about the kids that are involved in
51:36
Speaker 1: this situation, including my daughter, who is trying to move
51:39
Speaker 1: forward and has a bright future ahead of herself. These
51:42
Speaker 1: stories are doing additional harm to her I can handle
51:45
Speaker 1: her powerful right, I can handle the pain, but she
51:49
Speaker 1: cannot and does not deserve it. She is moving forward
51:52
Speaker 1: with life and doesn't deserve to be put in the
51:54
Speaker 1: spotlight anymore or having people thinking her mom is a villain,
51:58
Speaker 1: as that is very hard ment and emotionally for her.
52:01
Speaker 1: So I don't know. I've read that email and I
52:05
Speaker 1: was just like, are you kidding me again? It's just
52:09
Speaker 1: what a narcissist. Kendra was released on parole and is
52:13
Speaker 1: on supervise, released until February eighth of twenty twenty six.
52:17
Speaker 1: We do know that Shawn divorced her and receive full
52:19
Speaker 1: custody of Lauren, and Kendra is living with her parents
52:23
Speaker 1: near Detroit and reportedly has even less contact with her
52:27
Speaker 1: daughter than when she was in prison. I think that
52:29
Speaker 1: has a lot to do with what I said about Lauren,
52:31
Speaker 1: where I feel like she's now matured and has maybe
52:34
Speaker 1: a better grasp of the actions that her mom took.
52:39
Speaker 1: Doesn't want anything to do with her. But we'll see,
52:42
Speaker 1: we'll see what happens. I don't know. I don't know
52:45
Speaker 1: how you ever repair a relationship like that.
52:49
Speaker 2: I would say, you don't.
52:51
Speaker 1: I mean, i'd hate for a mother and a daughter
52:54
Speaker 1: not to have a relationship, but in a situation like that,
52:56
Speaker 1: I don't know if a daughter could ever have a normal, functioning,
53:00
Speaker 1: healthy relationship with the mother after something like that. Yeah,
53:03
Speaker 1: and the text messaging went on for so long.
53:06
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, it would have gone on for the rest
53:08
Speaker 3: of her life probably, and was so methodical and so
53:12
Speaker 3: thought out first degree, right, I mean it's not you
53:18
Speaker 3: just can't not like, oh.
53:19
Speaker 2: I got caught up, right, or oh I was initially
53:22
Speaker 2: trying to help and then it turned into this. It
53:24
Speaker 2: was just it was just bad from the beginning, and
53:28
Speaker 2: there's no good reason for her to have done what
53:31
Speaker 2: she did. None.
53:32
Speaker 1: This is just one last little thing that I learned
53:35
Speaker 1: from the cut article that they didn't put in the documentary,
53:38
Speaker 1: which I find interesting. So I feel like we'll just
53:39
Speaker 1: end the episode with this. At the Wilson's last Halloween party, now,
53:43
Speaker 1: remember the Wilson's is Chloe Wilson, the girl that she
53:46
Speaker 1: was trying to frame. It's her parents that have this
53:49
Speaker 1: annual Halloween party every year. The mom, Tammy, dressed a
53:54
Speaker 1: scarecrow in a prison jumpsuit and had a mask of
53:57
Speaker 1: Kindra's mugshot on it with cell Phones club in its
54:00
Speaker 1: gnarled hands. At one point, she pondered gathering friends and
54:04
Speaker 1: beale for a big watch party of the documentary. Then
54:06
Speaker 1: she changed her mind. Maybe it would be too emotional
54:09
Speaker 1: to relive this whole thing again. Maybe best, she said,
54:12
Speaker 1: to just watch it as a family.
54:14
Speaker 2: Nice.
54:15
Speaker 1: Yeah, so there you go. That is the saga of
54:19
Speaker 1: Kendra Lacari and the Catfish Mom.
54:23
Speaker 2: So she will not be nominated for Mother of the Year.
54:25
Speaker 1: No, she's not going to get that nomination. But anyway,
54:28
Speaker 1: thank you guys so much for listening. Again, if you
54:30
Speaker 1: have any other cases that you would like us to
54:31
Speaker 1: dive into, I'm thinking that since we're going to do weekly,
54:35
Speaker 1: I'd like to do the Delphi murders, So if you
54:37
Speaker 1: have any thoughts on that, please let me know because
54:39
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if they have the right man, and
54:42
Speaker 1: I'd love to dive into that deeper and discuss that
54:45
Speaker 1: with all of you, So let me know your thoughts
54:46
Speaker 1: on that, And thanks so much for listening.
54:48
Speaker 2: Thank you,