Latest / Better Preaching Podcast / BP2 Season 2 Episode 11 – Ron Otto | The Nod and the Shock
Transcript
- Dr. Frank Weller: Ron Otto, welcome to the Better Preaching Podcast. I've been looking forward to having you on the podcast. Ron and I have known each for better preaching podcast listeners. Ron and I have known each other for decades. He was at Great Lakes Christian College just before me. And then we both served at South Lansing Christian Church. I followed him where he was there for sixteen years, I think. but Ron, tell us a little bit about yourself and the church that you serve right now. Ron: I'm in Lincoln, Illinois. I serve a Lincoln Christian Church. I'm just couple months away from hitting twenty years and being the longest preaching minister in Lincoln history. I say that humbly, but I'm proud of that. Dr. Frank Weller: You Ron, you you you you've been at Lincoln, as you say, for almost twenty years and the town has undergone a lot of change in those two decades, hasn't it? Ron: my goodness. Yeah, very challenging here in Lincoln. we've lost several businesses, plants, people have moved a lot, and then we had two colleges that closed down. Lincoln Christian University we lost. We had several associates we would hire out of out of LCU. They helped us in ministry so much. And in youth ministry, children's ministry, worship ministry, we had these associates and we lost all of that. we're raising up our own people now to fill those positions, but it's just been difficult. When I first got to Lincoln There were 17 PhDs in our congregation. And I was often asked about that. And it it made me nervous, but I wasn't intimidated. I preach on a seventh grade level, and if they don't get it, it's their own fault, right, Frank? Dr. Frank Weller: Well, but that was the case when you were in Lansing too. I I know my first Sunday at South Lansing Christian Church, I looked out across the congregation and Ron: Yeah. Dr. Frank Weller: there was the president of the Bible college, the communications prof was there. my literature professor was a few rows behind the president, and then right down in front was sort of the matriarch of of the college, Mrs. Doty, after whom one of our buildings is named or her husband was was the namesake of that building. I was intimidated. I Ron: Yeah. Dr. Frank Weller: I maybe it w I mean y you had that experience at South. Maybe that helped prepare you for all those PhDs at L C U. Ron: You know, ministry is just so challenging, not just because of the PhDs. I mean, I have staff that have been to numerous conferences and they they have high hopes of sweeping changes. and then I have all these people who are just the bedrock of of our church, the elderly who have been there for years and they're hoping you make no changes at all. It's like preaching to college students all the way down to kindergartners and everyone's asking you to inspire them. It's very challenging. but I had good tools that were handed to me from Great Lakes, from early ministry. The the leadership at South are the ones that brought me into preaching ministry. I was youth minister prior to that, and then because of a because of a senior minister that was resigned. I was told on a Saturday morning, you're in the pulpit tomorrow. And Dr. Frank Weller: Yeah. Ron: by the way, right after you're done we'll be announcing that he's left. man, it was very, very challenging and up to this point, anything God has asked me to do, he's given me the ability and strength to do. So I I don't question that anymore, but my goodness. Dr. Frank Weller: Do you remember what you preached that Sunday? Ron: I do. it was in regards to what Jesus said. Jesus said, In this world you're gonna have troubles. so troubles just come. However, later on he says, But don't let your heart be troubled. And I just sense there's there's a difference here of not letting it get in here. You're you're gonna face troubles and challenges in ministry, but you don't let it get in here. Change who you are. And so that's I'm sure it was horrible. I look back on on sermons from my past and it's like, that's just terrible. You know, just from like three months ago. Dr. Frank Weller: Well, let me ask you this. Do you look back at sermons in your past and think, hey, that was really good? I need to do more of that. Ron: Yeah, yeah. I all right, I'll shock your listeners here a little bit. because of some ideas that came out of a a close friend in ministry, I I decided to preach the whole gospel of Luke and it was going to take eighteen months to pull off. I was gonna start it in December and it was gonna conclude two Easters later. And then we called it Jesus period. And then we had yard signs created. These yard signs, Jesus period. And Frank, when they appeared, it was just so I I I wasn't thinking this way, but it was an election year. And so all those signs went out in October, just prior to the election. And so houses all over town had these Jesus period signs and on one one side my one neighbor he had a he had his Trump sign and my other neighbor had his Hillary sign back then and right in the middle we had these Jesus period and people thought it was a political statement and it rang the bell that we were gonna do something that that few preachers have Well I told our congregation, I said, your your pastor's doing this because he's courageous. An 18-month series. And we did it. And it was phenomenal. it was exactly it was exactly what Fred Craddock talks about. I don't know. How long can I just talk here for a moment? Fred Craddock. Dr. Frank Weller: Keep going, man. Ron: Years ago, you know, to the young preachers who are listening, years ago, I was introduced, I it it was given to me on a cassette tape. That's how old I am. Fred Craddock did a two-part seminar called The Nod of Recognition and the Shock of Recognition. I don't even know if you can find that today. He said, too many young preachers go in trying to, this is new, they've never heard this before, and they steal from the congregation the opportunity to nod. That they recognize the story. This is one of the stories of Jesus, and it gave our people the ability to not, I know this story. However, the shock of recognition is when they realize they're in this story, the story's about them. And the shock of knowing that. Wow, that little tape really changed my life, and so. I don't go looking for these obscure passages, very seldom. Most of the time I like what's very familiar and it it gives people the chance to nod. And so that's what the Luke series did. And our highest average numbers came during that series. Dr. Frank Weller: Yeah, I heard somebody ta say that you you you said the shock and the nod. I've heard somebody say sermons have aha moments, that's the shock, and then they have amen moments, that's the nod. And I Ron: I love that. Dr. Frank Weller: think I think you gotta have both. I'll tell you what, you find that tape, I'll digitize it and we'll make it available at the Better Preaching Podcast website. Ron: Well, I gave it to a group of young men that I encourage. and and we did that. We we put it on D V D. Now I'm still outdated. Dr. Frank Weller: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Ron: But yeah, I'll find it. I'll get Dr. Frank Weller: I saw somewhere yeah, Ron: it to you. Dr. Frank Weller: that'd be great. I saw somewhere the other that's the reason Gen X is so angry, because we bought all of our music on on record album and then we told you're told cassettes are gonna be the greatest thing, so we bought it all in cassettes, then we bought it all on D V Ds or C Ds rather, and finally we paid for it with MP3s and and now we're asked to subscribe for our music and we don't own it. of course we're angry. We bought the same music six times Ron: Yeah Yeah. I had to learn to download all that so I could Bluetooth it onto my onto my Harley Davidson. That sounds like I'm boasting there, but I ride a Harley, so Dr. Frank Weller: that's kind of fun. Ron: my goodness. Yeah, and I listen to classic rock when I'm riding. I you can't ride a Harley and listen to Amazing Grace. It's gotta have something w a little bit deeper and more with a beat. Dr. Frank Weller: So let me ask you this then, what what motorcycle do you ride in order to listen to Amazing Grace? yeah, a moped, huh? Okay. So I don't even want to I mean I listen to a lot of classical music. My son's a classical musician, so I don't I don't I I I hesitate to ask what kind of motorcycle I should be riding when I'm listening to Rachmaninoff. Yeah. I was Ron: You're not on a motorcycle, brother. You're on your lawn tractor. Dr. Frank Weller: just saying horse and buggy. Ron, you Ron: I'm sorry, this is you know what? I've listened to some of the guys that you interviewed. my goodness, Dr. Frank Weller: Yeah. Ron: you have some big, big hitters on there. And I'm like, I'm gonna be the dumbest one, the simplest one of all of them. Dr. Frank Weller: Well, you know what? Well the rest of us will be able to identify because yeah, look FYI better preaching podcast listeners, Dave Stone's coming up after Ron Otto So he we're we're blessed to have and I'll tell you, Ron, well preachers just love to talk about preaching. And that's the thing that makes us all the same. Whether whether you're a megachurch pastor or you're a pastor of a church of 150 people. Preachers this this podcast is all about preachers who love preaching and and just talking to them about the craft that they've devoted their life to. And that that we're all alike in that regard. Ron: I have a blessing of being with several young men who are fairly new in ministry. It it started it started as mentoring, but I'm not mentoring those men anymore. They they got five, six years of experience now. Mark Christian alluded to it. We we do sermon writing together. Mark Christian and I, we started years ago up there in Michigan. There were three of us, Greg Steere at Holt, myself at South, and then Mark at Mount Pleasant. Well, we've been growing that and more people have joined and there's people who have been with us. But few years back, Mark who ended up out there in the Joplin area, he wanted to mentor some of the young preaching guys coming out of Ozark. So we had the opportunity to do that. Well, we still meet every year and share sermon ideas. And those young guys, wow, they keep me fresh. They keep me grounded. They they bring stuff to the table. I get ideas from them every year. And what used to be mentoring is not mentoring anymore. it's in I'm just encouraging them, but they are encouraging me. And I love that. I love that. Frank, you know, God often was working on the next generation. Dr. Frank Weller: Mm-hmm. Ron: I you know, when he was leading and working through Moses, he he was raising up Joshua. When he was when he had King Saul in the palace, he was already raising up David. You get to the New Testament and you got the Apostle Paul who's doing great things, but there's Timothy right on his heel. God's always raising up that next generation, it seems like, even though He's working through us. Well, what a privilege to be able to encourage that next generation. Those guys are gonna see things and do things that I can only dream of. And and they're a blessing to me. I i if they're watching this at all, man, I hope they know how much I love them and how much. Yeah. Dr. Frank Weller: Well, and at at some point, and I'm not sure exactly when this happened, Ron, you and I went from being the next generation to to being you know, the the old dudes. yeah. Well just Ron: Frank brother, we got old. Dr. Frank Weller: for clarification, Ron, you're older than me. Ron: I deserve that. I deserve that. And it's true. Dr. Frank Weller: I I I when you say young guys, I mean what's the number you're putting on that? Yeah. Ron: 30s. They're in their late 20s and 30s, but you know, there's guys they did it, they did it from Great Lakes too. I I admired those guys who came out and went straight into preaching. the time that I came out, it was just an expectation you start in youth ministry. And I loved youth ministry, I did. I had no expectations of being thrown into the preaching ministry when it happened. when my wife and I prayed about it, I did they asked me to pray and fast for thirty days. I didn't need that. Within a few days I knew this was what God was going to do. And so I was I was ready early, but wow. I mean it was a real shock to the system and and here I am. So if I've been preaching since I've been preaching since ninety-three, over thirty years. Dr. Frank Weller: And you've had you've had two really long ministries, and before that you had a a shorter youth ministry north of here. I mean, that I think that's something that I I see in a lot of preachers who've been really effective are just those long tenures. And that doesn't always happen easily. I mean, there has to be some perseverance and some willingness to go through some stuff in order to stay that long. Ron: Yeah. Yeah. I got I got all those early tools and you know this isn't a commercial but Great Lakes I I had a preaching professor who taught me preaching still changes lives. Dr. Frank Weller: Mm-hmm. Ron: And and he ingrained that so deep in me that I've always had a high admiration for those who preach. I was in youth ministry so I I wanted to preach even in youth ministry and and raise raise the kids' faith up but I still believe in preaching. I don't know why God does that. Dr. Frank Weller: I do too. That really resonates. In fact, in fact, the two of the core values of of the podcast are that preaching matters and that we need to invest in the next generation. When I Ron: that's perfect. Dr. Frank Weller: when I just before COVID, I I just sensed the Lord telling me that I needed to invest in in the next generation. And so I gathered a group of five guys in their late twenties who were all preaching at churches and we began meeting together and then COVID happened. So we journeyed through COVID together, the five of us for for two, well, six of us for two years. And at the end of that, I just sensed God saying, Hey, this is what you're gonna do with the rest of your life. And it was about that time then that I had the opportunity to come here to the college. Well, I I didn't anticipate that this was how I was going to live out that calling to invest in the next next generation. But look, you, me, the the guys who've been on the podcast who are of similar age and experience, I I think we've gotta invest in the next generation. it's it might be the most important thing that we do in our entire ministry career is to prepare the next generation to continue to preach the gospel. Ron: Frank, y you can see it in your face how much it means to you to do this and you're humbled by it, but I love that God inspired you to do this. Your podcast is incredible. I've I've enjoyed it very much. Dr. Frank Weller: Well, appreciate that. Thanks, man. Ron, you you served your entire ministry career in Christian churches, but you came to the restoration movement a little later or through a bit of a circuitous route. just tell our listeners about that. Ron: I was raised Amish Mennonite. my my grandparents on both sides were Amish. they were phenomenal people. They were very kind to me. I had wonderful grandparents. But my grandfather, who was the bishop in the Amish church, Grandpa Otto, he he split the church when my when I was very young. And my parents My mom's parents stayed, my dad's parents split, and my parents were stuck in the middle. And so at that time they decided to leave the Amish religion and become Mennonites. Now there's different levels of Amish and different levels of Mennonite, and it was a it was a more liberal not liberal, but just not as conservative, not as strict is the word I'm looking for. Not as strict Mennonite and so, more of a Beachy Mennonite. And so that's where we attended. So I grew up with cars and televisions and going to secular school and playing football and and then at age sixteen I didn't want to go to the Mennonite church anymore. I really didn't have close friends there and I I was making friends with guys I was playing sports with and one of my good friends at that time, he invited me to come to his church and I went and I liked it a lot. I I wish I could tell you it was the restoration movement that pulled me in, but he he said we got cute girls and that's what brought me in. But I was sixteen, give me a break. And Dr. Frank Weller: Yeah. It's not the first time I've heard that. Ron: And but then the longer I stayed, the more the restoration did grab a part of my heart. You know, on a side note on that, I'm gonna preach I'm gonna preach a three part series on the restoration movement this next year. And in twenty years of being at at Lincoln I've never done that. And I We have all these new families, all these new people who have found their way into our ministry. even with all that has happened in Lincoln, Lincoln Christian Church is really amazingly healthy. all the numerically we're very healthy. we lost a lot of key people we love, but new people have come in, and it's just incredible. I'm not supposed to be winning. young people like that. You know, it's supposed to be 10 years on both sides of your age. And and so I should be somewhere between 55 and 75. Those are and there's all these young families. And it's due to our youth ministry, our children's ministry, the the choir ministry is all there. It's all working together. And so they came in thinking they were just joining a non-denominational church. Dr. Frank Weller: Right. Ron: And we were this is I don't remember where I heard this, but it's a quote. We were non-denominational before non-denominational was cool. Dr. Frank Weller: Right. Yeah. Ron: And so I'm going to introduce them that y this is more than just non-denominational. You're part of a movement that's still alive in America. And so I get to do that this next year. Dr. Frank Weller: I I'd be interested to see those three sermons. We do something here at Great Lakes Christian College called Restoration Appreciation Week. Every October we host a lectureship where we do the same thing because a s a significant number of our student body are unfamiliar with the restoration movement. And we are the only independent private college in the state of Michigan that isn't affiliated with a denomination. And so a lot of students who come here are non-denominational and from several other denominations as well. And we just want them to understand that we do Bible things Bible ways that in essentials unity and non-essential is liberty and all things charity. And we just think it's important that our students understand that. So I love that you're doing that series and I'd be interested to see that. And if you'll share it with me, I'll share it with our Better Preaching Podcast listeners as well. Ron: I love that one. Dr. Frank Weller: So how'd you find Great Lakes Christian College? 'Cause you grew up in Ohio. Ron: So yeah, yeah, way over in Northeast Ohio, my preacher Daryl Sprunger went to Great Lakes. My youth minister Bill Mage went to Great Lakes. and then, you know, I came in at age sixteen into the youth group and I really loved it. And so, real quick I became one of the leaders in the youth group and then Youth Sunday I got asked to preach. That was my My first time in the pulpit and my parents came, they liked it, but I was baptized then. I was baptized in the Mennonite church, but I was baptized by immersion in the Christian church, and and then out of nowhere a trustee meeting was coming up, and Daryl Sprunger was a trustee, and he he and Bill invited me to go with them. And at that trustee meeting for lunch, we we took Keith Keeran out. And Keith Keeran, I was deeply moved by his time with me. I was I was a poor student. I didn't have a I I wasn't a good student at all and and he just believed in me. And and he was one of the first ones to say, I think you're you have some skills that could be used for the kingdom. You ought to consider coming here. And nobody had ever spoken to me like that. And that's how it started. Dr. Frank Weller: you so a lot of our listeners probably don't know that that Pete Keeran started his academic career at Great Lakes Christian College before going to KCU and then becoming president at KCU. Your master's degree is from KCU. Did did you have Dr. Keeran as any of for any of your classes down there? Ron: Nope, nope. It it was the Master of Ministry course, which in the nineties was it reshaped my my life. I couldn't be more thankful for my time at at KCC. the idea was simple, we're gonna bring in all these preachers who have done it. I mean Bob Russell was my preaching professor. Cotton Jones taught, Ben Merold taught. Wayne Smith taught I mean just I Dr. Frank Weller: It's an all-star lineup. Ron: my gosh. Yeah. Yeah. And I you know, I know All right, you ask preachers, you know, what what book have you read? That that's an opportunity for other preachers to judge you. And if you ask, who's your favorite preachers? That's an opportunity for other preachers to judge you, you know? And so all of a sudden they're like, man, this guy goes way back. Well, these were this these were foundational moments for me in ministry. They they shaped who I am. And you know, Bob Russell. standing in front of you saying, you know, I get my milk from many cows, but I turn my own butter, you know, that that opens up a whole world that, you know what, you can use other people's illustrations and stuff. I just recently used a Francis Chan illustration of the rope and I I gave him credit. I said, here's a little something I love from Francis Chan, and then I went, made it my illustration. And you know Bob Russell opened that door to to you don't have to be c 100% creative. You just you need to be good. And so it's okay to to have those other illustrations that someone else has used. I mean, as long as you're not telling personal stories. Dr. Frank Weller: I want to go deeper into that idea of illustrations. I I think Ron, discovering and and sharing sermon illustrations is something that maybe you do as well or better than anyone I know. How do you how do you how have you developed such a deep well of illustrations? Ron: Listening listening to other people, but also just opening up your eyes. I Frank, as you know, it when you're in preaching, you just start s everything is a preaching illustration. You you know, a tree blows over in your yard from a storm and you got an illustration out of it. I can't explain that. It's just it comes it didn't come natural to me, but it is natural now. from from grandchildren to marriage. to life. it's just there's there's an opportunity for an illustration in almost everything. I I believe in illustrations. I I think I think illustrations grab people's attention. I think it's God's word that changes their hearts, but boy, when when you got them in a story, it opens up that door for God's word to change them in big ways. And I don't need to tell your listeners this. They've heard it, but a good reminder, Jesus Jesus used illustrations. He talked about shepherds and men on journeys and treasures that were discovered. The apostle Paul talked about everything from athletes to running races to farming to you know symbols. I mean, you know, they used illustrations and it It just gets people's attention. It grabs their attention a little bit. Plus, it it can make the sermon more enjoyable. Not to say God's word isn't enjoyable, but I I love adding a good illustration. It not all of them. I've forced some things just like all of us have done, you Dr. Frank Weller: Yeah. Ron: know, that where it didn't belong. Dr. Frank Weller: I think what it does is it makes the sermon sticky and it makes it more memorable because we we we remember much better in pictures and and illustrations do that. I really thought you'd tell me that your secret is spending time in the deer stand. Ron: I I do that too. This Dr. Frank Weller: Yeah. Ron: so some of your listeners won't find this humorous, but I've always when people say, you know, how do you explain longevity in ministry? Because once a year something has to die. And then I feel better Dr. Frank Weller: Yeah. And if you've if you've ever been to Ron's house and looked at the wall of his study, a lot of deer have died in central Illinois. big deer. That's where you and I are different, Ron. You get out there and you you're holding you're holding Ron: Frank, don't set me up like that. Dr. Frank Weller: a bow and an arrow. My idea of deer hunting is in a deer blind with my iPad playing a movie, eating a little Debbie snack, waiting for some poor defenseless deer to happen w wander wander by through happen stance. And yeah. Ron: Yeah, see, there's your problem. The the innocence part. It's either them or us, man. I'm telling ya. Dr. Frank Weller: Ha ha ha. Ron: They when they walk in the road in front, they're out after us. So we gotta take out, man. This is a war. Dr. Frank Weller: So what you d it's a public service you're providing, Ron. Ron: Yeah. Dr. Frank Weller: Well, look, a half an hour has passed already. Ron's gonna be joining us for another episode of the Better Preaching Podcast. And when he returns, I'm excited to hear about his all-time favorite sermon series and his all-time favorite preaching point. But for now, we're out of time. And before we go, I just want to say thanks, Ron. Thanks to our sponsor, Great Lakes Christian College. And I want to thank you, our BP2 community, for listening to and supporting the Better Preaching Podcast. Join us next time for another insightful conversation because Better preaching makes a bigger impact.