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Lisa Lutoff-Perlo: Anchored in Purpose- How Bold Moves Create Big Change · The Bold Lounge

• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bold Lounge podcast.
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: My name is Leigh Burgess and I will be your host.
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: If you're anything like me, you love hearing inspiring stories of people who have gone on bold journeys and made a positive impact in the world.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: This podcast is all about those kinds of stories.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: Every week, we'll hear from someone who has taken a leap or embarked on an extraordinary journey.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: In addition to hearing their stories, we'll also learn about their bold growth mindset that they use to make things happen.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: Whether they face challenges or doubts along the way, they persisted and ultimately achieved their goals.
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: These impactful stories will leave you feeling motivated and inspired to pursue your own bold journey.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: I believe everyone has a bold story waiting to be freed.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: Tune in and get ready to be inspired.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bold Lounge.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: Today I have Lisa Lutoff-Perlow, and I am so excited to have you on the Bold Lounge and talk about what it means to be-Perlo, and I'm so excited to have you on the Bold Lounge and talk about what it means to be bold.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: And so we're going to start off with your definition of bold.
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: What does bold look like in your world?
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: How would you define it?
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: Well, I think it's synonymous with courage, and I have, throughout my career you know I had a very long career for 39 years in the cruise industry and I would say I've done, I did quite a few bold things.
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: Probably the boldest for me was asking our chairman and CEO to be named president and CEO of one of our brands, and I think that for a lot of people it takes a lot of courage and it's a pretty bold thing to ask for something that you want when you're not quite sure of what the answer is going to be right?
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: yeah, definitely I think.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: For me, bold is really like stepping forward even though you're unsure, uncertain.
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: It's usually a very thoughtful process.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: I think one of the myths about being bold is that's careless, so you just jump without right you think through it like when you asked for that promotion or were advocating for your role.
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: That was very thoughtful.
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: It wasn't like something you just did on a whim Right.
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: And it.
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: You know, and it was there's a little bit of fear and being bold takes a lot of courage.
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: But yeah, you're, you try to be very thoughtful about it and you go out of your comfort zone and I think being bold really you have to be willing to go out of your comfort zone to be truly bold.
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: But I also believe, unless you're really bold, you're probably not going to accomplish everything you could.
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the adage of you know, growth happens outside, in the comfort zone.
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: I really do feel like that is something that you definitely feel in the corporate setting and the entrepreneurial setting for sure.
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: So I came out of the corporate setting into the entrepreneur setting and had never planned that.
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: So I think for me it's definitely something of like just keep moving forward.
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: You know the right, left, right, left, right you need to take when you think about you, know your courage and at that level where you were at, where you were able to advocate for yourself, did you have that throughout your entire life?
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: Is that something you have honed over time or where did that courage and the ability to take action Cause that's where people actually get stuck is the I need to take action piece?
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: They might think about it and perseverate a long time, but they don't actually do anything about it.
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: Did you have that your whole life or did it get stronger and stronger in your agency?
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: Grow as you kind of practice it and kind of strengthen the muscle.
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: It depends on what we're talking about.
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: So if we're talking about when I was president and CEO and all the bold moves I made with celebrity, I was very willing to make those moves.
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: It's in my DNA.
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: I have a lot of courage in general, you can't really tell me no or I'm going to prove you wrong.
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: So I tended to be very bold and take big steps and do unexpected things and step out of our comfort zone, and I was always encouraging my team and the people I worked with every day to do the same.
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: So in that regard, I think it's in my DNA and I've always had it throughout my career and throughout my life.
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: In advocating for myself.
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: That's different.
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: I think I've honed that over time.
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: I've always been a much bigger advocate for other people than I have for myself, which is why I chose asking for the president and CEO role as the boldest move that I made, because for me personally it was a very bold thing to do.
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: You know for me to ask for things for myself, but when I knew I deserved it and I knew I wanted it, I finally got the courage to be bold enough to ask for it, and then I've honed that over time.
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: Now I'm a strong advocate and bold for myself as well.
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's something that is really uncomfortable when you first start out in any setting, honestly, but I think more so in the professional setting.
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: I played sports all through, you know, elementary, middle, high and a little bit of college, and I had no challenge.
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: I had no challenges advocating for myself or doing things or standing up for what's right, kind of in that personal sports life setting.
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: And I think for me even you know, just doing things and you know, having a voice for others, like that's something that I think definitely I've had all my life.
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: But advocating for yourself is a little uncomfortable, at least when I first started doing it and I don't know if it honestly like I'm at the point now with my book where I'm like about to ask people to support me and do those things and I'm very, very uncomfortable.
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I know.
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: Right, yeah, I agree why is that?
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: Why do you think?
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: And it is.
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: I don't know if it's the same for men as it is for women, or if it's just this normal, like you know, we shouldn't put ourselves first, or we shouldn't think, you know we shouldn't.
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: We should always think about others first, which I really align with you on.
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: I think advocating for myself is something that I can do, but it's not usually the very first thing I do.
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: Right and I don't know the answer to the question.
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: I try not to bucket things in gender, but I do think, like I work with so many men and still work with so many men, and I think that I am a little different in that regard, where you know you're right.
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: When I wrote my book and I had to start advocating and asking people to support the book, it was terribly uncomfortable for me.
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: Yet I was out asking people to support our brand.
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: And I was you know I'm out fundraising now for the world cup, so that's all easy to do, but asking people to do things for me is still terribly uncomfortable, and I don't know if it's a woman thing or not, but the guys that I work with think I'm crazy because I I'm so uncomfortable doing it.
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: We have these debates all day long, but yeah, I'm still a work in progress in that regard.
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you get better at it and better at it in certain areas and like a new one may come up, like the one I described, but you just just start.
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: That's the key thing is just start.
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: And if anything, I feel like we always learn when we do it, when we advocate for ourselves, and I was like, wow, that worked, it does, it gets easier, yeah, yeah it does yeah.
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: No one else is going to do it, so I think that's really important for anyone to hear.
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: That's right, it is.
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: And you know, I've just started this leadership academy, this online leadership academy as well.
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: So I'm kind of going through the same thing with the leadership academy that I went through with the book, where, you know, they're still telling me we need to do this and we need to do that.
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, do we?
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: But it's, I do need to get on with it.
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: And it does get easier.
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: And and you know here's the other thing, lee the more I think about it and the more people challenge me to do more of it, the more I realized they were right and I was wrong, and so I've got to get more comfortable with it.
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: But again, it's like we all work on ourselves every single day.
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: We're all a work in progress 100%.
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like for me, I'm getting better.
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: I'm 52, and 48 is when I left my corporate setting because I was in complete burnout and came into I didn't know what was next.
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: But I became an entrepreneur unexpectedly and wonderfully at the same time.
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: But standing in my value is something I'm really getting much, much better at at 52.
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: Not that I wasn't, I wasn't.
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: I don't think I was as good as it as I am now, and I think maybe that comes with the time and the practice and the.
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: If I don't value me, then how do I expect anyone else to right?
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: And I think that's a really important message that I've learned for myself as well.
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: I think if you're humble, it's hard as well.
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: Like people tell me my husband tells me the same thing all the time You're too, you're too humble, yeah, and you know again, the all the, these guys that I'm working with are helping me as I'm, as I've become an entrepreneur, you're too humble and they tell me that it's a wonderful quality, but you know you have to.
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: It's a balance and I think if you have a healthy dose of humility which I believe we all need to have and all leaders need to have sometimes the humility gets in your way a little bit and you have to sort of put it aside and, you know, be bold and let some of that humility go and stand up for yourself or value yourself and think as much of yourself as other people do.
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: Because I'm often overwhelmed by how people feel about either what I've done or what I've accomplished, or the or the.
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: You know, the role model that I am for them or the inspiration that I've given them.
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: I'm overwhelmed by that and humbled by that, and what I should probably do more is embrace it and be grateful for it and celebrate it.
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure.
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: So throughout your book you really talk about specific aspects of leadership and the learnings that you had.
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: Do you feel there's specific traits that every leader must have?
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: We just talked about humbleness a little bit, and so are there any others, Like are there the top three or the top five that you think come?
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: into play.
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: Well, when I was finishing the book chapter 10, you know, I've been in sales and marketing my entire life and for most of my career and I believe sales and marketing are such a benefit in whatever you're doing.
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: If you're an entrepreneur, you've got to sell and market.
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: If you're a CEO, you've got to sell and market.
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: You're selling to the board.
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: You're, you know, as the CEO of the World Cup.
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: Now I've got to be a seller and marketer because I'm fundraising, you know, for significant amounts of money.
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: So sales and marketing has always been a great foundation for my entire career and what I've been able to accomplish and convince other people to follow me.
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: I guess, whether I'm a leader of 20,000 crew members or, again, convincing the board that my strategy is right, or convincing my leadership team, we should go in a certain direction.
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: So when I was finishing the book, I was getting to the end of chapter 10.
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: And I was thinking to myself all right, you've been in sales and marketing your entire career.
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: If people are going to take three things away from this book, what will they be?
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: Because I really try to distill it down to things people can that are easy to remember and all of a sudden I had an epiphany because I was really struggling with it and it ended up being the subtitle of the book.
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: So the title of the book is Making Waves and the subtitle of the book is A Woman's Rise to the Top Using Smart, smart and Courage.
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: And what I would say is, if there are three attributes that any leader truly needs to be successful and I don't care if being a leader is being the mother of your family or a manager of something or running your own business you need to be smart.
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: You need to know what that means, and it doesn't mean being the smartest person in the room.
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: It also means being smart enough to know you're not smart in certain things and you're going to fill your gaps and hire people that are smarter than you in certain aspects.
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: I looked at that as a strength, and some leaders look at that as a weakness, so that's why I believe smarts are so important.
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: I really believe heart is important and I think humility probably comes under the heart section, where I believe in empathetic and caring leadership and leadership where you advocate for others and you help others, whether they're within your own areas of responsibility or even in the broader world, and I believe leading with heart gets you priceless return from the people that you work with and work for you every day.
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: And then courage, being bold, taking risks, being willing to lead from the front, make tough decisions you know, do things you instinctively know are right, even though some people may be telling you it's not right.
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: But all of those things are really, I think, important for a leader, and also not only for you as a leader, but the people you're leading.
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, One of your mantras that you use is you know, I will prove you wrong.
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: Where did that start or where is that grounded?
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: No, for some reason in my career, every you know people doubted me every step of the way, and I don't know why.
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: Even when I asked to be president and CEO, I had to ask three times to finally get a yes out of that, and I remember the answer being that they weren't quite sure why, but they just didn't think I was ready and I was like, okay, watch me, prove you wrong.
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: And when I was put into different roles that you know that people didn't think I was qualified for.
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: So I had a very interesting career where I moved into many different parts of our organization.
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: This is where my smarts came from, because I wasn't the subject matter expert.
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: I didn't know everything about running an operation when I was put in charge of operations.
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: I didn't know everything about running an operation when I was put in charge of operations.
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: I didn't know everything about being in charge of marine operations and all the technical aspects of the ship when I was put in charge of those things, and then the people I went in to lead that were in those areas and in running those functions were very skeptical of why I was there, if I was qualified and if I was capable.
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: And so my you know my mantra was watch me, prove you wrong.
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: And what I tried to do in those situations was admit fully admit that I didn't know as much as they did, and that's a little disarming.
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: You know when you will admit to someone.
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I know that you're skeptical, but I'm going to prove you wrong as to why I'm qualified for this job and why I'm going to do a great job and you're going to teach me things and I'm going to teach you things and let's have this mutually respectful relationship.
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: And it always worked.
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: But I always found myself, as I was navigating my way through my career, that I was having to prove people wrong who doubted my ability to actually be successful in the things that I was put in charge with at the time.
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that usually fires me up.
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: I sometimes think, well, maybe I shouldn't just get so fired up, but it it in a weird way motivates me to do probably even 5X, 10X of what I could have done, just doing my thing, absolutely yeah, so it actually backfires on them.
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: Yes, no, I loved it because I loved the skeptics.
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: You know it's like and it's even no like I when someone tells me no, it's pure motivation to prove them wrong or to turn it into a yes, oh, it's like, it fires me up.
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: And I was talking to the Girl Scouts one time these young girls, you know that I was at a Girl Scout event.
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: I was, I was made an honorary Girl Scout and I was giving, I was given an award, and I was talking to them and I said you know, there's times throughout my career I've been resentful because either people were skeptical or had to ask three times for a position that I felt I was ready for, but it was in someone else's control and they didn't.
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: And I said to them don't let resentment manifest itself outwardly in a negative way.
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: But you can definitely use resentment as a motivation, and part of it is, you know, watch me prove you wrong.
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: Some of it is resenting the fact that people are so skeptical to begin with.
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: It's like do you really think someone would put me here if I wasn't, you know, qualified or could do this?
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: And so, yeah, I turn it into pure motivation.
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: I agree with you a hundred percent.
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you apply the energy in a different way.
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: Like I go through a little bit, like I don't click right into it.
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: I click faster into it now.
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: Certainly, when I was younger I think it was like I got ticked off more than clicked in, but now it's just like okay, I love when people underestimate me, is what I would say.
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: My mom was like go ahead.
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: You know like, yeah, it's for you, this is going to be fun, and so I think you know being able to kind of click into that action mode of using the energy for good, for something that you can actually move it through.
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: And I think, in my framework, believe, own, learn, design, your belief in yourself is like the high octane in your gas tank and without it you're not going to go very far.
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: So I think kind of equates to that and that belief in yourself.
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: When you think of you know your belief in yourself.
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: Is there a moment where you know, whether it's personal or professional?
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: You've talked about a few like in the sense of coming in and not knowing.
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: You know, not knowing knowing everything and showing vulnerability and disarming yourself a little bit.
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: You know, certainly, asking for your role.
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: Is there anything you can remember like early on in your childhood, or even like high school, middle school, where, like you know your belief in yourself started to feel your success and what you were going to do next and how you were going to, you know, be seen or be treated?
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: You know, I think how we behave in our childhood is is indicative of probably how we're going to behave and in our future adult state or teen state, and then those things are probably going to help you be successful.
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: And I just remember being a little kid and always wanting to be the best at everything.
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: You know, I wanted to get the best report card.
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: I wanted to be the teacher's pet.
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: I wanted to yeah, I wanted to be in charge.
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: You know, as people say, when did you know you were a leader?
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: And I always say when I was two years old my first sister was born and I was a leader.
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: You know I just took control and I think that those are the things in your childhood that end up.
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: You know people ask me all the time well, you know, how do I, how do I get noticed, or how do I, you know, get promoted?
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: And you know I do I, how do I get noticed?
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: Or how do I, you know, get promoted?
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: And you know I always say be a leader before you're actually given the title, because people who show leadership and who step up, even if they don't have the title, are the people that you know are going to be really good at leading and what they're doing.
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: And I always did that.
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: I always leaned in, I always took charge, I always led without being the official leader.
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: I always rallied people and so for me, as I grew up, young age, that I liked being a leader, I liked being in charge, I liked being bold, I liked making decisions, I liked taking care of people and making sure everyone was okay, and I think those are all the things that you know just followed me throughout my life and I believe a lot of those things are very beneficial as we grow and as we try to accomplish and achieve different things, including going from corporate to entrepreneur.
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: You know, I'm sure your sports career was a huge motivator for you all throughout your life, even for making that big, tough decision to go from one thing into another without really knowing what was in store.
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think there's a lot of, and I think there's science and I've seen articles around the correlation of if you've played a sport a team sport, your ability to lead and be successful, and and individual sports I don't know so much about because I've never actually played them.
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: I'm actually terrible at it Don't have me play tennis or pickleball or you know, I don't eat chess, I'm not good at so like you know these, not the.
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: You know those are like the key sports, but those are single ones.
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: Swimming, Like, I'm just not good at the single things, but team sports when it came to basketball, I played basketball, I played fast pitch, softball, I played soccer.
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: These are all things that you learn what you're good at and what you're not good at you learn.
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: This is my role, this is what I have to do and I have to own this and I have to make sure I do my job, like run my race, do my thing, and then I have other people who do their thing and together we like create.
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: You know, whatever the score, the runs, whatever it may be, and I think that is absolutely something that I think we've pulled in to leadership.
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: Did you play a team?
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: sport.
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: You know I didn't and I can't remember the podcast.
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: I did, but it was so funny because the gentleman who did the podcast, the only people he interviewed were ex-athletes or team sports players who now are into leadership or business situations.
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: And while I never played a team sport, I use team analogies in leading all the time, because the best success comes from the team and the best success comes from the individual players on the team who have a certain skill set that they are really good at, but yet they understand their role within the broader team and they never look at themselves as more important than the entire team.
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: And I've watched sports my entire life.
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: I lead like I'm a coach, you know, so that I put all the pieces together.
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: Lead like I'm a coach, you know, so that I put all the pieces together.
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: And then I also lead by a value system that ensures that every team member knows their place, knows their value, is appreciated for their, but doesn't ever think it's more important than any other member of the team.
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: And because that's how teams win championships.
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: You know, whenever you have egos and you have people who think they're better than someone else, at the end of the day they're not going to win a championship.
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think leading has a lot to do with the technical as well as the tactical and then the relational right.
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: So I think you know there's the technical aspects of what you do in the lead and understanding the ins and outs of the cruise world, for example.
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: The tactical of what's our strategy, how do we differentiate, what do we do different, how do we make bold moves to be different.
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: And then the relational of all the team members, of their gifts, of their expertise, of their weaknesses Some people hate to say weaknesses, but we all have them.
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: So here it is.
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: I have failures too People don't like that word Like I've made mistakes.
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: Those are like these are things we learn from, right.
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: So, but I mean that is a big part of you know the CEO, who is, to me, the coach of this.
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: You know huge organizational team.
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: So I absolutely see the analogies there.
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: Is there anything you would say to your younger self now?
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: Well, you know, to be bolder for myself, I would say, and to believe in myself as much as others believed in me.
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: My career was accomplished through the results that I got.
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: Certainly those results contributed to all the opportunity that I had along the way, but I think also a lot of the opportunity I had along the way is because I had advocates that were helping me grow and learn in a way that I never anticipated.
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: I always thought my entire career would be in sales and yet I am running sales and I never ended up running sales, but I ended up being president and CEO of a brand and it's because there was a man that I worked for that actually believed in me, probably more than I believed in myself.
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: And while that has somewhat changed over time not a hundred percent I still think that sometimes I, you know I don't give myself as much credit as I deserve, but I would have told my younger self to believe in myself more than others, or at least as much as other people believed in me, and and aim higher and think bigger.
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: Okay, I love that.
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: That's great advice.
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: I think realizing that someone else believes in you more than you believe in yourself is something that I've experienced too, and I bet a lot of listeners as well and just believe it and start actually acting in that way.
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: Again, I really do think it's a muscle you you can actually strengthen by believing in yourself and taking the steps, and you know it isn't a bad thing to believe in yourself and to you know, shout about what you're doing and how you're doing it, because it's doing it in a way that's balanced with humility, and you know empathy and kindness which is a big part of the book as well that you talk.
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: Yes, as well that you talk about.
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: You talk about integrity being a really, really important piece of leadership.
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: How can someone either see integrity or practice integrity in a day-to-day way?
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: From your perspective, the way that I did.
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: It was number one how I conducted myself every day.
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: But I also developed a set of leadership values that I followed, and they were in every job description for everyone that we were hiring and they were published, so people knew what they were, and many of them related to integrity, and because I practiced it every day, because I declared it, because I published it and because I lived it, I was able to achieve the understanding of everybody that I worked with that I had a tremendous amount of integrity and every decision I made had to align with the values that I said I had.
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: And what I realized is a lot of people are watching you every single day and many of them are like waiting for you to take a misstep, and many of them are looking at you to prove every single day that you really mean what you say.
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: And many of them are looking at you to prove every single day that you really mean what you say.
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: And so as soon, as a leader, you don't do that, then you lose your integrity.
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: And it's so hard to get, but it's so easy to lose, and you have to be intentional about how you conduct yourself every day.
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: And one of the things I learned, especially as I was transitioning out of the company after a crazy long career that you know.
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: After 39 years, it was time for me to move on.
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: It took me a lot longer than it took you, lee, but I realized that as I have transitioned out of the company and other people are thinking about me for different things, whether it's a board role or this world cup role that I'm doing now people are going to do a ton of research on you and you don't.
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: You never know who people are talking to.
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: You never know what people are going to find out about you and unless you conduct yourself with a tremendous amount of integrity, you're going to hurt yourself in the longterm.
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: Forget you know what you're doing right now or you know how people perceive you right now.
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: A lot of people are so focused on the right now they don't think about what else there is or beyond this, and then how people are going to perceive you.
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: And what I have found is that, by conducting myself with a tremendous amount of integrity my entire career, from the time I was a salesperson you know, a door-to-door salesperson when I first started, I was a district sales manager and I would be on cruises with all the other salespeople and they were probably behaving in a way that was not appropriate Oftentimes.
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: I mean it was almost 40 years ago.
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: We all know the stories.
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: I always wanted to make sure I was never in the conversation and I did that from the day I started in 1985 until the day I left in 2024.
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that was some of the best advice just to align yourself with your actions, because when you are a leader, you are that person when you're at work and when you're not, so like you, you know you're seen regardless.
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: You know if you're on the soccer field or you're, you know at your desk.
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: Those are the things that are really, really important.
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: You know to realize that leadership really is following you wherever you are.
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: So I think that's just an important piece for people to hear, and I think that's where your words about integrity are really, really important.
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: You're a leader, you know, 24 hours a day, so don't think that it just stops at 5pm or 6pm when you leave work.
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: So making waves is the title of the book, and when you thought about that title, is there one particular wave or a particular wave or an area that you've made the most waves in in your career?
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: I think there are a multitude of waves I've made in my career, all the way from you know, and it has a lot to do with being bold.
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: And when I was thinking about my career and I was thinking about the industry I was in, I thought making waves was a really appropriate title.
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: I made waves from going from the very bottom to the very you know top of the organization.
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: I made waves because I was the first woman to ever be in the C-suite in our company.
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: I hired the first American and still only American woman captain.
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: I made waves by increasing the percentage of women on our bridges from 3% to 33%, and only 2% of mariners in the world are women.
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: I made waves by petitioning the International Maritime Organization to recognize the Ghana Maritime Academy so we were able to hire cadets and women of color for the first time ever in our industry.
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: We did that.
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: I made waves by introducing the Edge series of ships, which transformed our brand and really transformed the industry.
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: And I made waves by creating the first brand that was delivering luxurious experiences at scale, when everybody told us that we couldn't do that.
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: I made waves by transforming the financial performance of our brand, when the board had been terribly disappointed in the financial performance of our brand for over 20 years.
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I made waves in a lot of different ways and few waves there, and so I just thought it was such an appropriate title.
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: And you know, and I'm still making waves.
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: You know, now I'm doing things I never thought I'd be doing as well.
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: So yeah, so I love that.
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: So the example of the waves, really, I think again, if you look at this, the different layers of those waves some of them were advocating for others, some of them were advocating for yourself.
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: Some of those were turning things around or making things better organizationally and operationally.
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: So there's all sorts of ways to make waves and I think there's also all sorts of waves to be bold, and I think some of them might be quieter moments are some of the most important moments for me.
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: Bold moments, leadership moments, where I'm, you know, where I'm helping a particular person work through something, or they're having a challenge with their family, and they're one of my, you know, one of the members of my team, and we're just trying to figure out how to understand.
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: How can I help you and support you, like that's not going to be on any report, or you know any five-star thing you're going to get an award for.
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: That's really about leading when it when it can't be seen, and I think, again, that might go back also to integrity as well and how you lead.
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: But there's all different ways that you can make waves.
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: Would you say you have one superpower, or do you have several, or you just kind of pull it out of the bag when you need it.
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: Is there one that comes to mind for you that?
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: you feel like you have One of my chapters in my book it was chapter eight was dedicated to being to a superpower and yeah, I think there's a lot of things that you know.
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: Probably.
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: I think that what I've done is a compilation of a lot of different attributes that I have, but they tell you that a superpower is supposed to be one thing.
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: I looked up the definition when I was writing my chapters.
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: What's the one thing?
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: And I think for me, the one thing is I've always believed in the boomerang theory of leadership and I believe I've been successful because I've practiced it.
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: And it's all about getting back what you put out there, because I believe that what you get back based on what you put out is priceless.
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: I believe people are going to work because they have to work there, they need a paycheck and they're going to come and do what they're assigned to do.
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: Sometimes they'll do it well, sometimes they'll not do it well, but when you practice the leadership values that I really care about and a lot of what was in the book, especially around heart, I believe the return you get from the people that you work with is priceless and I believe that I was able to be as successful as I have been because I've genuinely cared about people.
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: That doesn't mean I didn't hold them accountable.
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: It doesn't mean that we didn't have really aspirational goals that we fought hard to reach every single day.
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: Sometimes we did, sometimes we didn't.
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: Didn't mean that if things weren't going well, that they weren't going to hear from me because we needed to turn things around, but what it did mean is that I always did it in a kind and caring way, and so people worked really, really hard for me because they cared about me, because I cared about them.
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, one of the quotes your sidebars was you must use your position and whatever power and influence it brings along with it to create positive change.
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: So when you think about using kindness and empathy, but still like we still got to get stuff done, that to me, you know, is what that quote's all about.
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: We're going to create, we're going to be positive, but we realize everything's not guaranteed along the way as well.
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: So for me that hit home with what you just said and I had it to the side here.
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: So in your career, is there any particular piece of of what you're doing now that you're bringing through into planning for the world cup?
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: Because that's that's a whole different set of leadership skills.
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: But I bet there's some things you're pulling through that you had experienced in, uh, in the cruise industry.
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: Funny enough, next week I'm doing a keynote address.
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: It's for the World Travel Expo and the woman who reached out to me because I've been in travel and world tourism pretty much my entire life and the World Cup is just part of that you know the 2026 World Cup and they asked me to talk about my career as a celebrity because it was so long and everybody in the industry knows what I accomplished, and then to sort of correlate what I did there and how I'm applying it to the World Cup.
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: Interestingly enough, when they were looking for a CEO of the Miami matches, they were looking for a CEO.
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: They were looking for someone who had run a business, because I think people think about it as a major sporting event, which it is.
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: It's the biggest sporting event in the world, but it's also a business.
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: You know there are so many aspects of it that have to work.
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: Number one financially.
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: It has to work because we have to raise enough money to offset our costs.
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: So I was responsible for a pretty significant P&L.
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: There are a lot of logistics that have to be organized and I was in charge of something that had 15 ships all over the world and it was a logistical miracle that everything happened the way it did.
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: Safety and security and in the cruise industry, safety and security is of paramount importance All of the fan experiences, fan fest, viewing parties, all of the events we have to create I've done that at a massive level in customer experience, guest experience, making things fun, and then, of course, there is the marketing of it, you know, creating and generating excitement and buzz.
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: And I've built brands and created excitement and buzz.
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: So I might not know anything about soccer.
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: I always say that everything I learned I learned from Ted Lasso and I'm pretty organized and think about things in a very comprehensive way, and that's what they were looking for when they were looking for the CEO.
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: So I think there are really a lot more similarities in this role that people realize from my previous role.
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Do you have a learning?
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: So far that's been surprising or anything that's it's been like oh wow, I didn't know that before, but I'm learning that now.
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I, I'm learning so much.
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: I'm learning, you know, I'm on weekly calls with all the other host cities.
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: We meet all the time.
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: I'm learning so much about the sports world and how this all works.
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: I'm learning a lot more about local politics than I've ever known before.
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: I was born in the corporate world but this is a, you know, a public, private endeavor, and so I'm learning a lot more about local politics.
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: I'm meeting people I never thought I would have met before, so I'm learning a lot.
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: But it was also one of the reasons I did this because, you know, I think to myself all the time, even at this age, I must be crazy because I'm still taking on these big challenges and learning so many different things.
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: Because it's exciting to me and it helps me continue to grow and, you know, being part of this historic event is pretty cool.
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think we keep learning forever.
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: I hope I do.
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: I feel like if I stop, then I'm done.
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: You know, for me, in the sense of like it's part of living, as part of evolving as a person and as a leader, I think what you're doing is really cool.
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: So, as we close out, I think one of the things is nice to pay it forward.
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: So are there some things that you can guide others, like as we kind of go through our career as leaders, of how we can give back, how we can lift as we rise and mentor others?
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: Are there ways that you did it or are continuing to do it that we can use as we're going through our leadership levels?
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, and it was.
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: It's part of the heart section of the book.
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: It's it's all about advocacy, and people advocated for me and I always wanted to pay it forward and advocate for others.
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: So there's two examples I'll give you of that.
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: One is a lot of women are interviewed about how they've made it, and you know how does it feel to have made it.
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: You know to get these positions that mostly women don't get, you know.
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: And so people would ask me how does it feel to be president and CEO of Celebrity?
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: And you know what are you going to say?
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: I mean, it feels great.
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: I'm so excited about it.
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: But I didn't look at my accomplishment as anything other than number one being able to make a difference, and that's first and foremost the thing that I loved the most about my role.
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: I could make a difference Financial, brand, business, culture but I always said that if you're a woman that makes it and you don't lift other women up with you and give them opportunities that they otherwise would not have had, then you don't deserve what you get.
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: And so I was a huge advocate of that and proponent of that, and the gender balance we were able to accomplish at Celebrity was unbelievable.
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: And then the other thing is because I still, even to today and what I'm doing, work with way more men than women, and I've done so much for men.
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: I've done a lot more for men than I have for women, because there are so many more of them that I worked with.
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: So I'll never forget the day that this young man came into my office and said so.
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: I'll never forget the day that this young man came into my office and said LLP, I just want you to know.
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: You know he's.
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: He met his wife, he was having a baby, he was so happy.
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: He started out as a 18 years old on the ship as an assistant waiter and he was now in charge of all of the customer service on our ships and he had a shoreside position.
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: And he said how will I ever be able to thank you for making all my dreams come true?
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: And I said the way you can thank me is to do the same thing for others.
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: And you know, recognize talent, help people accomplish their dreams, because without advocates, none of us can accomplish our dreams.
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah it's really talking about.
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: The key thing is, you know, for me, I think leadership just like being bold, like having the courage which is, you know, part of the subtitle in a big section of the book is really around knowing that you have to take individual action and have intention.
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: But it's important for us to realize as leaders, we also should advocate for others along the way.
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: So I think that's important, that cycle of giving back and paying it forward.
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: So appreciate that very much.
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: So I encourage everyone to pick up Making Waves, a Woman's Rise to the Top Using Smart Heart and Courage, by Lisa, and all the information is down in the episode notes.
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for being on the Bold Lounge and sharing your leadership journey and your bold steps with us.
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: Thank you, Leigh, for having me.
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: It's been an absolute pleasure.
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to the Bold Lounge podcast.
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: Through the continuum of bold stories vulnerability to taking a leap you will meet more extraordinary people making a positive impact for others through their unique and important story.
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: By highlighting these stories, we hope to inspire others and share the journey of those with a bold mindset.
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: We hope you've enjoyed this podcast and look forward to sharing the next bold journey with you.