Latest / Guy Football Focus with Guy Haberman / Guest NICK WAGONER Talks What Comes Next For 49ers + Trade Targets

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Guest NICK WAGONER Talks What Comes Next For 49ers + Trade Targets · Guy Football Focus with Guy Haberman

• 0:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: of ESPN, one of the best in the business back again on the show, one of your favorites in mind.
• 0:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: And there's no such thing as an off week.
• 0:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: There might be a by week with the Niners off seasons off weeks.
• 0:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's always something.
• 0:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: And they made the splash.
• 0:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, the Colts have made the Colts really made the splash trading quit Nelson and the Forest Buckner to the NFC West.
• 0:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I thought you had a great perspective on how the Forest Buckner helps the 40 that or something.
• 0:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's really hidden.
• 0:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I hadn't thought about it.
• 0:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: I looked at it, Nick, until you tweeted out the numbers of double teams of him and also Diggie Zuha.
• 0:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: So how do you think what's your reaction to how the Force Buckner helps the 49ers?
• 0:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, I think first of all, I felt this way on Sunday and I wrote about it and I tweeted about it.
• 0:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: You probably did watching it from the broadcast booth, but it kind of laid bare that the past rush is still an issue.
• 0:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: Particularly when it comes to just rushing with four.
• 0:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: the Niners are going to use more five man fronts and rush with five on more of as more of guys to kind of a regular look than just a blitz look per se.
• 1:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I do think that they needed to get better there.
• 1:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: They had three pressures on on 34 dropbacks.
• 1:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: I know Michael Penix is getting the ball out quick and they were kind of giving up the underneath stuff.
• 1:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: But
• 1:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: you still got to at least move him off his spot because he is not a super mobile quarterback and someone that has had trouble with pressure and they were not able to generate that at all.
• 1:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so I'm not saying that necessarily sped things up here because I think the 49ers were already looking at this and we're probably going to make this move regardless.
• 1:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I do think that adding to force Buckner who I believe is being double team this year at something like 76, 77% rape.
• 1:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: Also Diggy Zoo is right in that same range.
• 1:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: And actually guy, also the first couple three weeks was getting it even more, he was in the 80s and he was up near the top of the league amongst defensive tackles and double team rate that dropped a little bit in recent weeks partially because the Niners had more production from guys like he on white who's been getting more attention and things like that, but
• 1:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: When you put both of them in the middle of the defense of line, it does cause more problems.
• 1:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I don't know that I'm guessing that will be the base defense, Buckner and Odicky Zua next to each other, but certainly on third down, I think they feel really good about that where you can put, you know, you hope to get Nick Bosa back, you put him out there, you put maybe Ramello height on third down in the role that you've envisioned for him.
• 2:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: And you've got those four guys where you could even put Michael Williams or Keon wide out there and then have height as your fifth guy standing up and kind of
• 2:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: feverbacker type spots so there's a lot of different things they can do with the forest buckner I think at this point in his career not as well rounded as he was you know last time he was here which is what you would expect but certainly as a past rusher should be an impactful guy who makes this team better and also there's a trickle down effect right guy anytime you make a move like this
• 2:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: he gives grace and holding a more of a breather gives him the chance to maximize his snaps a little bit better even also diggy zoo uh uh all those guys there's a trickle down effect of not only having someone who's going to be in the lineup and you know give them an opportunity to give everything they've got on the snaps they play but also from a leadership perspective because everyone knows what an A plus human being to force Buckner as well.
• 3:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's a great point, the last one you made too, which is that now you go from every snap, not every snap, it's hard, but like when I'm calling the game, one of the things I go to is who's in on the defensive line.
• 3:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: And now it's a little more about, well, somebody's off, like somebody who's actually, you know, has been a productive player has to come off the field, because there's quote-unquote, there's no such thing as too many, but, you know, I do think that's a really big deal.
• 3:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: Is there an obvious, and we're doing this on, you know, Wednesday, midday,
• 3:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: The trade deadline still two, just less 13 days away like because the trade deadline's pretty late this year.
• 3:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I guess the for the next one would be is the max cross be dream dead is any additional defensive linemen dream collial Mac like is their room for another in your mind.
• 3:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there is.
• 3:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: I, in fact, would be surprised if the Niners are done, not necessarily just on the defensive line, but overall, because why receiver, which I'm sure we'll get into in a minute, but lingers out there, I think cornerback deaths could be something not necessarily a big splashy thing, but but maybe getting some additional help there, but as it pertains to the defensive line, look, I had a conversation with a piece that's coming out by the time this drops, it will be out.
• 4:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: on the trade deadline and kind of the how the Niners are approaching it.
• 4:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: I was asking Kyle Shanahan about it on the conference call the other day.
• 4:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: And part of the equation here has to be Operating in a world where yes, you're getting guys back, but you have to live in a reality in which you're going to lose more or they're not going to stay back once they get back.
• 4:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I had a conversation with Trent Williams about this now that locker room the veteran guys in there who want this really badly.
• 4:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: Obviously
• 4:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: John Lynch and Kyle Shanahan do too because they've been around and been really close.
• 4:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: They want this team to go all in, you know, Trent Williams, the words he used to me is, like, go for broke.
• 4:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: They don't care about the draft picks because they're a gamble to the players.
• 4:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: Now that doesn't, that's not how the team can operate.
• 4:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: They have to kind of.
• 4:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: strike a balance, but I do get the impression I do believe they're going to continue to be aggressive and looking at options.
• 5:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so when I look at the defensive line and you ask about edge, I think a guy like a collial macker, you know, y'know, y'know, y'know, y'know, y'know, y'know, y'know, y'know, y'know, y'know, y'know, y'know, y'know, y'know, y'know, y'know, y'know, y'know, y'know, y'know, y'know, y'know, y'know, y'know, y'know, y'know, y'know, y'know, y'know, y'know, y'know, y'know, y'know, y'know, y'know, y'know, y'know, y'know, y'know, y'know, y'
• 5:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think if you're talking about a max cross be level of deal, where you're talking about at least a one, probably a one plus something maybe not two ones, you got to be a little bit more cautious just because you want to make sure that if you are giving up that much draft capital, it's a guy who not only is going to help you make to push this year, but it becomes a foundational player for you moving forward.
• 5:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's not to say, cross, we can't be that.
• 5:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: I just think that that's something where you have to be real cautious of We're giving up a lot the ideas to win the Super Bowl this year, but if you're giving up that much It's got to be about this year and beyond.
• 5:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, somebody.
• 5:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: I did it and we can get into the receivers So Garrett Wilson the likelihood of that or you know the dead money that the jets would take on it It does require you to trade quite a bit, but somebody said to me why you talking about 2027 and I think the answer is clearly Because if you're giving up a lot it's easier to do it
• 6:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: If it's also for more than just this year, you know, that's the, it's not, it's not really a catch 22.
• 6:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like you give up more for the guys that'll be on your team longer.
• 6:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: The guys that'll be on your team longer are the younger guys who are more in their prime, right?
• 6:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: And here's your quarterback in his prime.
• 6:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: So you can't accomplish post things.
• 6:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: Make Trent Williams happy quote unquote.
• 6:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: And look at the future as well, but you know, these are your kind of threatening threading a needle here.
• 6:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know that the force buckiners on the team maybe will be.
• 6:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, on this year, but he might retire.
• 6:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, the word was he almost retired last year.
• 6:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: So because of injury and you know, Cleo Mac, whatever, but let's okay.
• 6:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: Let's talk about wide receiver.
• 6:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: Is there is there a guy that makes sense.
• 6:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: One out of 10 Garrett Wilson.
• 6:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like here's what I said about that.
• 6:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: Mike Evans has opened my eyes to life with a number one receiver.
• 7:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: The Niners haven't had one with Kyle Shannon.
• 7:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: I you could close and Garrett Wilson isn't just in Jefferson, but I put him between like that category and the I you should.
• 7:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: So what do you think about receiver?
• 7:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think that when you talk about Garrett Wilson, I certainly understand why 49ers fans are clamoring for it and and I think I go back to something you and I talked about last time I was on the show guy where we were talking about Cleo Mack and and adding an edge russia and it was.
• 7:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: In an ideal world, you have Colleal Mac with Nick Bosa, and you feel unbelievable about your past rush.
• 7:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: If you don't have Nick Bosa, you still feel a lot better about it if you have Colleal Mac.
• 7:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: Spin that to why receiver now, where Mike Evans, he plays through a lot, and he is, you know, obviously wants to be out there and they want to have him at full strength, but Nikili's can be a finicky thing.
• 7:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: We don't know exactly what that looks like.
• 7:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: If you have Mike Evans and Garrett Wilson,
• 7:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: you feel phenomenal about it.
• 7:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: If you don't have Mike Evans, you still feel pretty good.
• 7:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: If you've caught Garrett Wilson and so, you know, Wilson kind of is one of those guys that would check a lot of boxes of this is a guy that yes can help you win in 2026, but would also be a foundational player for you moving forward as, you know, a guy that you pair with Brock Perti for the long haul.
• 8:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: The problem is, is if you're the jets wide, why would you want to move off of that when you've got all these draft picks already and you're you're aiming to get the quarterback who you can pair with Garrett Wilson, which is why you just signed him.
• 8:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: I was talking to a couple of people in New York who followed this closely that follow the jets closely about, you know,
• 8:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: is this even possible?
• 8:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: And they don't think it's likely at all.
• 8:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: They don't think it's but we did see last year sauce gardener, Quincy Williams.
• 8:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: Both guys get traded a bit surprisingly in both cases.
• 8:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think that would be the price though.
• 8:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: The sauce gardener trade is kind of your baseline of what they would want to even consider that.
• 8:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: And the the the dead money.
• 8:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, two ones right and the dead money thing like I know people want to make a big deal We got to stop with that like we've seen teams eat way bigger amounts of money than what the jets would have to eat for that The problem is is the tax you have to pay in traffic To make that happen.
• 9:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: It has to be worthwhile.
• 9:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: So do I expect that?
• 9:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: No, I don't but do I understand why Niners fans want it and why the Niners should at least make the call and kick the tires absolutely
• 9:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: Um, and I never say never guy crazier things happen all the time in this league, but I think more realistically, the Niners do need to make an addition.
• 9:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: At least with someone that they can count on and the hard part there is finding the guy who can learn the offense and fit in quickly because we're kind of seeing that already.
• 9:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, Brandon cooks has been around a long time.
• 9:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: And maybe he's not the guy that he's definitely not the guy that he once was, but he's even struggling and he's played in a similar scheme before.
• 9:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: So that's the hard part is like, if you're going to make a move, it's got to be someone that you feel good about coming in.
• 9:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's not just like defensive end where you plug them in, you know, you line up at nine tech and then go get the quarterback like that's just not the reality.
• 10:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: that they live in and that's what makes it a lot harder to me guy and why I think they're probably if they do make a move at that spot more likely to make one of those kind of lower level or mid level additions.
• 10:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Cooks has run into George Kittle over the middle of the field or nearly run into George Kittle on the middle of field twice in the last two weeks.
• 10:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: And one of them was on the ball that pretty threw two cooks and, you know, Cooks wasn't in the spot.
• 10:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah, I now I will say I still hold out a little hope on that one just because it took him about a month to get into the four things in Buffalo last year.
• 10:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then he was he was really good, but, okay, what else?
• 10:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: Who else?
• 10:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: You mentioned corner.
• 10:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: Is that next with Epi next on your list?
• 10:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, I think that it's just one of those more of like, I don't know that they're going to go out and try to find a starting corner.
• 10:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: I just think that the that a depth thing, like having a number four that they can rely on a fiends price.
• 10:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: I played a little bit, didn't play bad the other day when he went in.
• 10:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's just a really small sample size.
• 10:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think they still like his future.
• 10:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: But do you want to bank on that?
• 10:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, we have seen young corners deliverer.
• 11:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I think every Thomas was pretty good in 2019, actually.
• 11:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: Probably the best ball he played as a, as was it 2019 or 2021.
• 11:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: It might have been 2021.
• 11:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, 2021 when when when he played pretty good ball down the stretch for them.
• 11:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, maybe price I could do something similar, but I think that just a lower level move there to kind of bolster your depth and give you that that fourth corner and maybe it's somebody who can play the nickel.
• 11:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: I do know that they're hoping to get it up and stop back.
• 11:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: They feel like Stout has taken a little dip here with last couple of weeks, just because he's been dealing with the shoulder issue that kept him out last week, where he was break glass in case of emergency only.
• 11:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: But that's something I think would be interesting to take a look at.
• 11:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, I just think that from a depth perspective, that's the one spot, maybe that jumps out the most to me.
• 11:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think we know based on their history that making a big investment at some of these other spots, like left guard, that people want to talk about,
• 11:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: is just not likely to happen in season.
• 11:59
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• 12:02
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• 12:15
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• 12:17
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• 12:22
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• 12:24
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• 12:30
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• 12:45
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• 12:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, it's what got, and I got, um, just to add to the point that you made, it's what got, uh, up to the start replaced in the Washington game, too, is that he's really playing hurt with that AC joint shoulder injury.
• 13:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, okay.
• 13:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, offensive line know, we hit receiver running back, no, although you want to turn James will ever get another carry, uh, a K-lon black will.
• 13:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, uh, let's see, tight end, no, you wouldn't think.
• 13:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: D-line, you can add there, linebacker, no, safety, you know, if Seagulls back on time, if Seagulls back the next week, I think they probably feel pretty, yeah.
• 13:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I was just going to say to your point, not necessarily adding a safety, but if we're talking about making moves with guys and maybe the Niners not making move at corner, getting Seagull back, theoretically, instead of having, having Ashden Davis go in as you're in, you know, in a nickel or a dime situation.
• 13:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: you have three safety's then that you feel better about right between between brown Mustafa and seagull and putting them all free of those guys on the field together.
• 13:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think we will see some of that when seagull comes back one way or the other, but that isn't least an option that's better than what maybe we've seen in our house all over the last couple of weeks.
• 14:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 14:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, kicker.
• 14:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: I thought it was so interesting.
• 14:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: I've never heard a coach talk the way Shannon and Coach talked on Monday when it's like, are you bringing a kicker in?
• 14:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's like, I haven't been told that we are.
• 14:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 14:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 14:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like plugged into the world, though.
• 14:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's what I did in Transactions.
• 14:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, kicker is on the team that he coaches.
• 14:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I, you know, I took that as him saying, like, I'm waiting for Bram Boyer to give me his assessment.
• 14:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's how I interpreted that.
• 14:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
• 14:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I also kind of look at the week like,
• 14:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe Eddie Pinedo gets the buy to do whatever it needs to do to study his film or whatever and assess himself and see if he can fix it.
• 14:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's how I interpreted that, how do you interpret it?
• 14:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think that's about right and look, I know a lot of people make a big deal about he's got what $4 million guaranteed in 2027 on his contract and people all the Niners just don't want to eat the dead money to the Niners have eaten way more dead money on way bigger deals than Eddie Peneer.
• 14:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: I promise that is not the reason for it.
• 15:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think the reason that you say sit here and say right now that they're they're not doing it is to your point.
• 15:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, giving him some time to recover or figure things out.
• 15:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: But who's better like who like they like you're not going to pull an Eddie Pinyaro part two to replace Eddie Pinyaro not one year later, most likely you're not like the opposite right the odds would say that that is the case there are teams around the league who need kickers and they're not pulling them off the street and finding a guy who just doesn't miss right at least on from a field goal perspective and so to me I think that's the bigger issue is like if you're going to move on you better be darn sure that the guy is going to be an upgrade and and I think when they moved on from Jake moody
• 15:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: they had reached the point where I was like, it's not going to get much worse.
• 15:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: So let's take our chance and see if we can improve and then they happen to strike gold and find the guy who was a lot better than Jake Moody at least on in terms of kicking field goals.
• 15:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I think the hope is is that he can figure things out.
• 15:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: Now the hard part there is also you don't want him to cost you a game, right?
• 16:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like that's kind of where you draw the line and you want to do it before that happens
• 16:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: in that direction, which is why they need to keep an eye on it.
• 16:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: And to me, I think the the smart play would be you do bring guys in for a trial and you add one to the practice squad.
• 16:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: At least then you have eyes on somebody and you can kind of get a feel for how they kid they are kicking.
• 16:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: So if you need to make a movie, have somebody in house that you at least feel somewhat good about although not fully good because he hasn't done it in a game necessarily for you.
• 16:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: So
• 16:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's a tough deal.
• 16:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: It is very much the most black and white job in this league, but in the situation that they're in with Eddie Pinedaro right now hasn't cost them a game yet, but they got to make sure that it doesn't because I thought they gave one away the other day that was certainly very winnable not necessarily because of him.
• 16:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: uh... he contributed in his way but um... that's that's kind of the situation that they're in yeah i mean washington scores a touch on the other game the netty might have already cost them a game and you know he cost them being in a one possession game the other day in a land out now in fairness nick folk in mr. kick two so it land a cusher that game the other way but yeah i'm uh... you know to your point on the falcon game and i don't think anybody we don't spend a lot of time on
• 17:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: on the Falcon game.
• 17:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: But to me, the bigger picture watching Seattle then beat Kansas City and they look better, watch in the Rams, dismantle the Raiders and they look better, whatever you think of the Rams.
• 17:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I think the way Shannon has talked about it is, it's not about being six and all or seven and all.
• 17:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's just about getting your seventh wins so you can get your eighth win and your ninth win and your tenth win.
• 17:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: I did think that was a major missed opportunity Atlanta because they didn't have to play perfect.
• 17:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: They just had to not
• 17:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: The mistakes, the amount of times they turn the ball over in the red zone or near the red zone was was eye popping.
• 17:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so I do think there is like offensively a question of if Mike Evans isn't back against the Raiders.
• 17:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: Can they be efficient enough without just running Christian McAfrey into the ground?
• 17:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, you know, they didn't, that's not exactly what happened, but McAfrey was out for two key fumbles.
• 18:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because he, you know, he had more yards than the undersold team did on that first drive.
• 18:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and he looked like he was on pace for a massive game kind of like what Evans was the week before actually before he went right like kind of the same same scenario there.
• 18:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that was it to me guy.
• 18:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: It was like that felt like a game if they just played clean they win and that's not to take anything away from the falcons.
• 18:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that's a heck of a play that guy made.
• 18:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: on the second interception.
• 18:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: The base interception, he made a great play, that ball should have been in the third row of the stands, but I just felt like there was a lot of things there, not just the turnovers that were avoidable, and I think of also Digi Zua jumping off on fourth and fourth, when the whole stadium knows that the Falcons have no intention of snapping that ball and all of a sudden,
• 18:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, Kyle Shannon calls it a lap, but it was at least a mini lap where they get the 10 points right there at the end of the half and then to start the third quarter.
• 18:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: So that to me, you know, Fred Warner said he felt like they took a step back.
• 18:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I thought that was interesting to hear because I think he was referring to.
• 19:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: just kind of the the mental side of things that they do have control over that they didn't do quite as well in that game and so yeah again there are a lot of circumstances that point into that being a potential first loss no question the other day but those circumstances aside the 49ers had a had a golden opportunity to win that game get to 7 and going into the buy
• 19:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: and and and it felt like they gave it away and again I'm not trying to take away from what the falcons did they did there you know but but yeah it's just I think he can take it like I saw Michael Panics was named the NFC offensive player the week and I was you know you read the fantasy it's one of those like you read the stats and you didn't watch the game like oh yeah yeah great game I came away so
• 19:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: blah, with their offense, given how, like the top of your skill, they have anyway, we don't need to talk about the Falcons.
• 19:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I do think one underrated thing in the NFC, this year is Brian Flurry, and I thought about this.
• 19:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: I was watching the C-Hucks Chiefs game again this morning.
• 19:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 19:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, that guy's been an offensive coordinator for seven games.
• 20:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's nothing.
• 20:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: In other words,
• 20:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: It would go to reason he will improve as the year goes on, right?
• 20:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: The delegate better, they're going to get a run game back.
• 20:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: I just think like every chance you had and you still got the lead.
• 20:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: You haven't given it all the way now, but you can't.
• 20:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: You, they got to write the ship after the buy and I, you know, they, because I just think I think Chicago's going to be better by the end of the year.
• 20:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think Seattle's going to be better by the end of the year.
• 20:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm still in the, I'll believe the Rams aren't better by the, I know they've got a lot of injuries.
• 20:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: Where are you at with kind of go, go down the NFC the next three or four teams biggest threats.
• 20:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Seattle is number one to me, you know how high I've been on them for a while obviously they won the Super Bowl last year when I when I felt that way too, but oh yeah, we did argue in just all interrupt you say last year around this time we argued about whether Seattle could win the championship or not and I was no and Nick was yes so.
• 20:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I just think that defense is just, uh, is really, really elite, uh, you saw what they did to the chiefs, uh, the other night, and I don't think they're going anywhere.
• 21:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I would say that you go out and get Quentin Nelson and to me that was just one of those moves of like, let's just get the best available offense to play here because we look at their offense right now and it's just a lot of JSN, which is still pretty a pretty good thing because he's JSN, but like,
• 21:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: They can't really necessarily get a weapon like JSN.
• 21:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: So who's the best offensive player?
• 21:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: They could get that's going to make them better.
• 21:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think Quentin Nelson, they view is going to make them better, not only in giving Sam Donald more time to throw, but also helping a kind of desolate run game improve as well.
• 21:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I wouldn't be surprised if they made another move also.
• 21:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, you know, they could, they still have dry powder that they could do.
• 21:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that's kind of the difference.
• 21:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: between the seahawks and the Niners that versus the Rams or the Rams made a lot of their big moves in the offseason and so they don't have as much ammo to go make moves.
• 21:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: That doesn't mean the Rams won't.
• 21:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: I also am not ruling out the Rams.
• 21:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think they're going to go away.
• 21:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: The injury thing is probably the biggest thing right now and you know they gave away some games that they probably should have won here at the beginning of the year.
• 22:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: But
• 22:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: Um, I think just when you look at the depth overall depth of the NFC, uh, as a, as a potential wild card team for the Rams, like I wouldn't be at all surprised if they were able to carve out a spot and find their way.
• 22:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: I know everyone's looking at the NFC North and saying, oh, it's a loaded division.
• 22:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, there, there's going to, they're going to cannibalize each other a bit too here.
• 22:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, as this season goes on and I'm not a huge believer necessarily and any of those teams, uh, as particularly the Vikings, I, I am a big believer in their defense and what Brian Flores is doing.
• 22:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: That offense is, I guess, took a baby step forward last week, but still not a lot of production on the scoreboard, which is what counts the most, the bear's offense is excellent.
• 22:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: The Lions offense is excellent.
• 22:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: Green Bay's offense has moments of excellence, but.
• 22:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: None of those teams are necessarily scaring you as a complete unit.
• 22:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: I do agree with you guys.
• 22:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think the bears probably come out of there and I do think the bears are probably the most likely to make a meaningful addition or two at the trade deadline for their defense.
• 23:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: They've been in and a lot of the guys that the Niners have kicked the tires on.
• 23:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: So that's how I look at it outside of that.
• 23:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: I thought maybe Carolina was sneaky feisty and then they get they get smacked around by the box like that was pretty eye opening.
• 23:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you know, weird stuff happens, but I just don't I just not a buyer on any of the teams in the South or any of the teams in the East right now.
• 23:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so that's kind of how I look at it.
• 23:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: I still feel like those three NFC West teams to me stand above the rest and then I put maybe Chicago just slightly a notch below that and then Minnesota because of their defensive slightly, slight notch below that.
• 23:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: Minnesota like their schedule coming up it now we're going to it's kind of find out time now really for the Viking to play Detroit on the road this week.
• 23:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: Then they play the bills and they play at the Packers and they play the Niners in Mexico City.
• 23:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: So their next four games are going to say a lot.
• 23:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: Is there like what you know what you just said about the bears being on on on Buckner?
• 24:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: Is there
• 24:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: just made me think like big picture is there a guy like a big name.
• 24:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know you and I talked about Jeffrey Simmons a few weeks ago.
• 24:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: Is there a big name out there that like if you had to pick the guy most likely to get moved that would.
• 24:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know it's a tough question because there's somebody that stands out.
• 24:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't know.
• 24:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I don't I was poking around on Simmons a couple days ago to see if there was anything to that and it just doesn't sound like the Titans want to do that.
• 24:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: I know solid doesn't.
• 24:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's not necessarily his call, but I think ownership.
• 24:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't sound like
• 24:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: move off the Simmons it's hard to sell it's hard to sell that franchise right now in general to fans but if you trade or a the one player that everyone knows is really good that doesn't mean again you can't make an offer to just to squeeze them out of there but it would take it would take a massive swing to do that so I would be I would be a bit surprised if he was but yeah I don't know like I think that maybe over the next couple weeks
• 25:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's the one to me that would make the most sense.
• 25:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: They lose it the jets this week.
• 25:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's essentially if they lose to the jets.
• 25:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's the one that's still kind of that seems like it would make the most sense to me as a big name that would be out there.
• 25:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: But, heck, last year at this time guy, if we had this conversation, well, I don't think either one of us would have thought, sauce gardener was getting traded or that could win.
• 25:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: Williams was getting traded and it happened.
• 25:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: We do at least live in a world where this league now, those types of things, those unexpected big blockbuster trades happen more frequently.
• 25:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I'm not sure we've reached the point yet where those teams that have those kinds of guys are ready to move on.
• 25:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: I do wonder like Washington specifically, Josh Harris, newish owner, the Ron Payne, you know, McLaren, one on IR.
• 25:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: But they've, you know, they've made, they've sent away defensive linemen the last few years.
• 25:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: several.
• 25:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: Actually, I think they've shared like three defense of lime in the last three or four years.
• 25:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 25:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I know it's different ownership now, but you know Bob Myers, we'll see what Bob Myers and Adam Peters wanted to do.
• 26:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: I will say I will add one more, too.
• 26:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: I do think that I wonder like, you know, it's so weird because the hardest team before we got on the league to me is Houston.
• 26:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I don't really understand
• 26:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: how they're as bad as they are and why their defense has taken such a significant step back this year, but they looked like they had right in the shift, they get a couple of wins in a row, some pretty good ones, and then they go and they lose again, and they lose to the giants who credit to the giants, and John Harbaud doing what he's doing, but I don't know that that's necessarily a team that the Texans
• 26:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: uh... who are preseason super will sneak pick for a lot of people myself included uh... have taken a big step back here and so does the kneel hunter become available if they if they take another loss or two going into the by so that's that would be again a name maybe that's kind of off the radar right now and i think would be interesting that would move the needle for a lot of teams but uh... outside of that i'm not really sure that there's going to be
• 26:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know that big that big name guy on the move and it doesn't sound like Jonathan Taylor, you know, not that the Niners are would be interested there, but just doesn't sound like the culture are super eager to move him for a lot of the same reasons, the Titans aren't for Jeffrey Simmons either, yeah, but there's some other teams the NFC that might be interested in him.
• 27:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: I saw somebody, perhaps a little bit the bears.
• 27:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: and what he could do in Chicago, not trade deadline related, but I love every time this Kyle Shanahan trailing by eight or more in the fourth quarter, oh and 49 comes up and I looked at it a little deeper this week, you know, he was double the league average as an offensive coordinator.
• 27:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: Teams trailing by eight or more in the fourth quarter win seven percent of the time.
• 27:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: As an
• 27:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: Of the 49 games he's coached down eight or more in the fourth quarter, 28 of them have been with Brian Hoyer, CJ Bethard, Nick Mullins, Tray Lance, Mack Jones, so maybe that's a factor.
• 27:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: I've watched every one of these games, Nick.
• 27:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think there's like some shanna hand magic, but it's this like.
• 27:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: inherent weakness that means he can't win on the fourth quarter.
• 28:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: I had a theory that it was because the nighters don't throw deep.
• 28:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: They don't have a deep ball threat, but then I went and looked at the games in Atlanta and those games were not one or tied with big Matt Ryan to Julio Jones deep ball.
• 28:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I, you know, I, I'm kind of out of theories and it's hard to defend because it's over.
• 28:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: Not that I want to defend it necessarily, but I just, I watch the games.
• 28:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think there's
• 28:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, I actually, I really kind of felt like they were going to do it the other day because they actually to your point guy, it seemed like they were getting some big ones down the field, you know, Jordan walkins had the one and there is, you know, if he catches the, you know, gets credit for the one and the end zone that was really close.
• 28:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know that then maybe that changes or you know right before Brock throws the second pick and you know Watkins was coming open if if that if that linebacker doesn't time that drop into that into that spot at that exact moment That's probably a big gain and they got a great chance to go do it But yeah, I don't I don't know.
• 28:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know that there's a common theme there necessarily
• 29:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: I haven't sat there and studied it.
• 29:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't really get in super deep into, you know, we can, we can find the arbitrary numbers and plug them in for a lot of different things.
• 29:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, it's not, it's not great.
• 29:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: You would like to at least have a couple in your back pocket, right, of, of comebacks.
• 29:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I, but I think part of it is is the Niners are are definitely used to playing from ahead, right?
• 29:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like they, they, yeah.
• 29:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: They jump on teams and keep their foot on the gas, and generally they put them away, and so maybe they're just not in that situation enough to do it, but clearly they've been in this situation enough to not do it, so I don't know what the answer is necessarily on that one.
• 29:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think they're going to need to figure it out.
• 29:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: I wouldn't shock me if they win one and then win two.
• 29:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: You're like, oh, okay.
• 29:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: But they've had several games this year that the old nine of recipes is Arizona put it away, didn't do it.
• 29:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: Washington put it away.
• 29:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: Arizona was a little funky, but Washington didn't do it.
• 29:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: Obviously.
• 29:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then the Falcons, they were in position to like jump on them.
• 29:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: Now Atlanta had done it the week before and come back against Chicago.
• 30:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: But
• 30:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: didn't do it.
• 30:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: I will say I do want to make this point Nick you don't necessarily have to comment but I talked about the ball to Jordan Watkins the other day but you know we just haven't seen the the deep ball down the middle of the field and there were some of the some people were like well if he hadn't slowed down he could have caught it and stride and we couldn't have he made a great play it was an explosive play you just take it but the miners don't really turn that play into a touchdown.
• 30:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think it's historically, I've said it's too full, like they don't have receivers that want on one just burned by a guy and Brock doesn't have a lot of experience in the NFL throwing that ball.
• 30:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: Now I did ask of a Super Bowl winning quarterback and he said, you know, guys always
• 30:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: their ball will tail to their arms side typically.
• 30:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's why right hand, a guy's like throwing it down the right side line.
• 30:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because if the ball tail, it'll just tail out of bounds as opposed to tailing back towards the defender.
• 30:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: Anyone who gulfs understands that ball movement.
• 30:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: But when I looked back at that throw specifically from the rear view of that play, I thought live.
• 31:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: And even rewatching it from the old 22 up high that brought Brock through it from the inside hash and the ball tailed in between the numbers in the hash when you watch it from behind Brock actually as it leaves his hand, it looks like he is targeting that spot between the hash and the numbers for whatever reason, you know, the Jordan Watkins was there earlier, what Brock should have let him or whatever, I don't know, Brock can answer that question, but I just didn't want to point that out because I talked about I thought Brock's ball tailed inside.
• 31:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's not what happened on that throw, but anyway.
• 31:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no, it was, uh, I don't know if he had taken on deep.
• 31:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: No, no, no, take on that, although I will say you mentioned the one to cooks earlier that that he almost ran into kiddo like yeah, walkins was walkins came sale and open there pretty quick.
• 31:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I don't think it was one of those where it was like, oh, he's only open after the balls been released and the Falcons defenders have reacted.
• 31:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: But again, like, you know, it is a situation where Jordan Watkins is like the one-wide receiver who maybe is the most empathica with Brock and that's show to your point that shows you they still don't exactly have everything perfectly synced up.
• 32:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: So that just gives you a commentary on where they are as a receiver court right now.
• 32:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he does feel you're right.
• 32:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: That guy, I'm not surprised to see him make plays because we'd watched him in two training camps now where I'm like, oh, that piece, he looks good.
• 32:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I wasn't shocked to see him make plays.
• 32:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: The question is just when you got Evans and maybe he's dribbling, can he still make?
• 32:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: You'd love from to still be able to go make a couple plays again.
• 32:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: So we'll see.
• 32:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, absolutely.
• 32:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: And he's taking a step forward and I think it's only, you know, I think the thing that's going to really help him is the block that he had on K-Lon Black's 30-yard touchdown run.
• 32:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, that's the kind of stuff that maybe goes under the radar a little bit, but it's the stuff that registers with Kyle Shanahan when it comes to putting guys on the field and trusting them to be complete receivers who can then get the ball.
• 32:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: and the passing game as a result of it, as they say, no block, no rock.
• 32:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: So that's an important step for him to put that on tape.
• 33:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: All right, I'll tell everybody a little behind the scenes, Nick is revealed.
• 33:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's golfing on Friday.
• 33:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: So he is fully expecting the next big move to happen on Friday.
• 33:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, he's on the golf course.
• 33:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: All look forward to your live from the seventh green, like Mayoco was when we were playing golf, and I'll still be a kind of filming everything, you know?
• 33:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: That'll be a great interview on Friday.
• 33:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: Influencer Mayoco, the widely known tick time, where are you star?
• 33:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: Where are you playing on Friday?
• 33:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think over just over seeing it Theresa, I don't know.
• 33:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: We'll see.
• 33:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's a fun little, fun little track that's not terribly far.
• 33:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
• 33:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: All right, next.
• 33:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: I need to book it.
• 33:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe someone will hear this and get you on at Olympic or, uh, there we go.
• 33:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 33:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's right.
• 33:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: Positive.
• 33:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: If you're listening.
• 33:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 33:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
• 33:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks, dude.
• 33:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: Good to see you.
• 33:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: You got it.