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That Time MLK's Family Sued the Government and Won · Conspiracy! The Show

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Speaker 1: Win True Insurance, gad, I'm True Truth. I'm a check
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Speaker 1: out Wurance Good True.
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Speaker 2: Thanks. Hey, everybody, welcome to Conspiracy The Show. I'm your
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Speaker 2: hostt Adam Todd Brown joining me his co host this week. Ooh,
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Speaker 2: my favorite host of all no co hosts. But I
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Speaker 2: do have a fantastic guest, Cory Robinson's here.
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Speaker 1: How's it going, man?
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Speaker 3: Hi, everybody, good to see you. Even though you can't
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Speaker 3: see me.
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Speaker 1: You all know him, you all love him.
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Speaker 2: He's been on the show before and a bunch of
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Speaker 2: other podcasts that we do. Corey, thank you for doing
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Speaker 2: the pod today. Oh No, we're talking about a thing
1:01
Speaker 2: that I've brought up a bunch on this podcast, but
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Speaker 2: I've never really done a full episode about it. I
1:08
Speaker 2: did write a Cracked article way way back in the
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Speaker 2: day about conspiracy theories that did actually happen, and boy
1:16
Speaker 2: do people love to borrow from that article. But this
1:19
Speaker 2: was one of the stories I included in that. We
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Speaker 2: are talking about the family of doctor Martin Luther King,
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Speaker 2: Junior and their lawsuit that they filed against the government
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Speaker 2: of the United States and a man named Lloyd Jowers
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Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety seven. I believe they filed it and
1:39
Speaker 2: the verdict came down in nineteen ninety nine, and the
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Speaker 2: verdict of that trial was Lloyd Jowers conspired with government
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Speaker 2: agencies to kill Martin Luther King Junior. Had you ever
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Speaker 2: heard anything about this lawsuit?
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Speaker 3: I heard about the lawsuit just in passing and just
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Speaker 3: as both a black man and a comedian. People just
2:00
Speaker 3: gonna throw random facts out at you and be like,
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Speaker 3: did you know that Martin Luther King his family sued
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Speaker 3: the government and won? And I was like, not really
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Speaker 3: and that I looked it up and like, oh shit,
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Speaker 3: they sued the government in one because I didn't really
2:11
Speaker 3: look into the specifics of it, but I just googled
2:13
Speaker 3: it to see if he was just saying any bullshit
2:15
Speaker 3: or whatnot. And I was like, get out of here. Yeah,
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Speaker 3: And it's in line with everything that was happening with
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Speaker 3: the FBI and whatnot in the sixties and seventies and
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Speaker 3: systematically taking out the black panthers, Martin Luther King, Malcolm X,
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Speaker 3: just about everybody important in black history.
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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, just anyone who was even sort of progressive
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Speaker 2: got it in the sixties.
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Speaker 3: Bred and mc garver's, the Kennedy's.
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Speaker 2: What a fucking time to be alive or not? Yeah,
2:42
Speaker 2: exactly what a time to be unalive? Yeah, James Earl
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Speaker 2: Ray is historically the person who killed Martin Luther King Junior.
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Speaker 2: That is what history has always taught us. But he
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Speaker 2: has maintained his innocence all the way up until he died.
3:01
Speaker 2: But starting about a year after the killing of doctor King,
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Speaker 2: James Lray changed his story and said his confession was
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Speaker 2: coerced his lawyer pressured him into it. Also in that
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Speaker 2: he was actually innocent. And that's one of the things
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Speaker 2: that bothers me about this theory, and we'll get to
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Speaker 2: it more later, but just the fact that he changed
3:24
Speaker 2: his confession. A lot of people now when they look
3:28
Speaker 2: at this story in this new version of events, they're like, yeah,
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Speaker 2: but he already confessed once. And we have decades and
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Speaker 2: decades of the police coercing confessions out of people. By now,
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Speaker 2: we see him do it in true crime shows. We
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Speaker 2: know how they do it.
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Speaker 1: So I don't give a shit if he changed his story.
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Speaker 3: But who would ever think the police would would force
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Speaker 3: someone to do something that wasn't true to get a
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Speaker 3: confession and whatnot? That doesn't happen at all. Also to
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Speaker 3: change your confession from killing Martin Luther King as a
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Speaker 3: white man in the nineteen sixties, you have to be like,
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Speaker 3: I won't say you're innocent, but if something's up, because
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Speaker 3: that's one of the few things you can go to
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Speaker 3: jail for in the South, and you might be better
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Speaker 3: off in jail than out on the streets because that's
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Speaker 3: like killing pedophiles around gang members like they're gonna treat
4:17
Speaker 3: you like a king. They love you for that. If
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Speaker 3: you kill Martin Luther King, the person that was trying
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Speaker 3: to get equality for black people but unify all people,
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Speaker 3: and you're racist. You just did d D. You ain't
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Speaker 3: never gotta pay for soups, honey buns and nothing. So
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Speaker 3: we got you over here.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I bet he was flush with ramen noodles till
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Speaker 2: the day he died. I do wonder if he was
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Speaker 2: living like Escobar in prison, just fucking eating steak and
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Speaker 2: shit because all those racists thought he killed Martin Luther King.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, the KKK is cut by and just drop by
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Speaker 3: tribute every few seconds, you know some of the Yeah,
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Speaker 3: every bland food you can think of, help yourself.
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Speaker 1: So everyone should know the official version of events. But
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Speaker 1: if not. The short one is James L.
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Speaker 2: Ray is alleged to have shot and killed doctor Martin
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Speaker 2: Luther King while he was standing on the balcony of
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Speaker 2: a motel in Memphis called the Lorraine Motel. And starting
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Speaker 2: around nineteen ninety seven, Mlka's family, including his widow, Coretta
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Speaker 2: Scott King, began voicing their concerns about James Eorlray having
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Speaker 2: been set up and started demanding a new investigation. And
5:26
Speaker 2: here's my question about James Olray and how he was caught.
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Speaker 2: And this is for any skeptics out there who are
5:33
Speaker 2: like the government would never lie to us. Of course,
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Speaker 2: James Olray is the person who did the shooting. He
5:39
Speaker 2: is often described as a career criminal, but he's a
5:44
Speaker 2: career petty criminal. He wasn't a violent criminal, but still
5:48
Speaker 2: a career criminal. He was caught because he left the
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Speaker 2: gun at the scene wrapped in a towel or a
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Speaker 2: blanket or something or paper, and it had his fingerprints
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Speaker 2: on it. What a career your criminal do that? Or
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Speaker 2: would they know to take the fucking gun with them.
6:04
Speaker 2: I don't get it.
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Speaker 3: I don't understand why you leave a gun wrapped in
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Speaker 3: a towel. That's not conspicuous at all. Also, just as
6:11
Speaker 3: a side note, every time I read or hear James
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Speaker 3: Earl Ray, I think James Earl Jones, And that's a
6:18
Speaker 3: much funnier version of events. Someone where at someone deep
6:21
Speaker 3: voice leaving the scene of the crime.
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Speaker 2: That would be funny if James Earl Jones actually did
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Speaker 2: it and they just fucked up the name somehow.
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Speaker 3: That was like James Old Jones, Rest in peace, rest
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Speaker 3: in power. It was also a very prominent black man
6:34
Speaker 3: as far as just being an actor portraying important people.
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Speaker 3: So if he was one to kill Martin Luther King,
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Speaker 3: that just that's like a whole as a plot twist
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Speaker 3: nobody saw coming.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, that would be a turn of events for sure.
6:46
Speaker 2: And so, like I said earlier, one of the big
6:49
Speaker 2: sticking points with James Earl Ray is that he confessed
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Speaker 2: at first, and that reminds me of whenever I bring
6:56
Speaker 2: up the possibility that Kurt Cobaine was murdered instead of
7:01
Speaker 2: having committed suicide. The pushback I've gotten on that is, well,
7:04
Speaker 2: you're ignoring decades of depression or years of depression, and no,
7:10
Speaker 2: I'm not not every person who's depressed commits suicide.
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Speaker 1: For one thing, but.
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Speaker 2: Also that's what people are ignoring here when they're like, oh,
7:17
Speaker 2: well he confessed, so he did it. It's like, again,
7:21
Speaker 2: we have so many coerced confessions on the books now,
7:25
Speaker 2: such a long history of people being exonerated and let
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Speaker 2: out of prison because we found out their confessions were coerced.
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Speaker 2: So that doesn't do shit for me. But also, let's
7:37
Speaker 2: talk about Acham's raiser. It's a thing you hear all
7:41
Speaker 2: the time with conspiracy theories, and it's basically, whatever answer
7:45
Speaker 2: doesn't require the most leaps in logic, that's your answer.
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Speaker 2: And if you're one of those people out there and
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Speaker 2: you're thinking, ah, the government said James Alreay did it,
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Speaker 2: it's probably that James Alrey did it.
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Speaker 1: What's more likely.
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Speaker 2: That a career criminal with early discernible political leanings just
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Speaker 2: up and decided to escalate his crimes to political assassination,
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Speaker 2: or that the agency that had been surveilling and harassing
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Speaker 2: MLK up to and including sending him a letter telling
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Speaker 2: him to commit suicide eventually just decided to go ahead
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Speaker 2: and kill him.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, they had already made like the equivalent of a
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Speaker 3: sex tape to try and discredit him, during that whole
8:23
Speaker 3: time frame, and leaping ahead a little bit, they were
8:27
Speaker 3: found at least civilly liable for the assassination of Martin
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Speaker 3: Luther k. So the evidence is there, and honestly, there's
8:35
Speaker 3: not a big enough outcry of that, Like we have
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Speaker 3: on the records proof that the federal government is responsible.
8:42
Speaker 3: They're not saying they've killed him, but they are responsible
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Speaker 3: for his death, and it's not a big enough deal.
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Speaker 1: Yeah.
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Speaker 2: I know, I definitely am old enough that if this
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Speaker 2: was big news in nineteen ninety nine, I would have remembered.
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Speaker 1: I was already in my twenties by then.
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Speaker 3: I was just getting out of high school and that
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Speaker 3: was like.
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Speaker 2: Pre Internet, so if we were I mean not pre Internet,
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Speaker 2: but like very early internet, pre social media.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, when we weren't really getting our news from the Internet.
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Speaker 2: So yeah, I feel like we both probably would have
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Speaker 2: heard about this if it was a bigger deal. And
9:15
Speaker 2: that's one of the things people bring up about it
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Speaker 2: is that this happened and no one talks about it.
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Speaker 2: We're gonna talk about some of the debunking of this
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Speaker 2: idea later. A lot of it just boils down to yeah,
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Speaker 2: but yeah, but nothing A jury found the fucking government
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Speaker 2: complicit in killing Martin Luther King Junior.
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Speaker 1: There's no yeah, but about that.
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Speaker 3: Not just complicit in responsible for It's like the same
9:40
Speaker 3: thing as like, look, OJ was not guilty of murder,
9:43
Speaker 3: but he was absolutely guilty in that civil trial. Yeah,
9:46
Speaker 3: and had to pay like or it would have been
9:48
Speaker 3: if not for his pension being covered, he would have
9:51
Speaker 3: had to pay like hundreds of millions of dollars in
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Speaker 3: restitution to the families. But that's the point. Look, we
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Speaker 3: can't get you on murder, but we know you did it.
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Speaker 3: So here's a way to be f silly responsible for
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Speaker 3: their debts.
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Speaker 2: OJ is actually a great point because by the reasoning here,
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Speaker 2: you could just as easily say no, OJ didn't murder
10:09
Speaker 2: in Cole Brown Simpson, he went to court and he
10:11
Speaker 2: was found not guilty, and then someone is going to
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Speaker 2: bring up, yeah, but the civil trial, and you're like,
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Speaker 2: it's a civil trial, No one cares about that.
10:19
Speaker 1: It's like, oh that matters too.
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Speaker 3: I've had that exact same argument when I want to
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Speaker 3: piss off white people. So yeah, like the same beats verbatim,
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Speaker 3: and yeah, like I may be and I'm talking out
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Speaker 3: of my ass each time that it's an apt comparison.
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Speaker 1: So why does the King family doubt James L. Ray
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Speaker 1: was the killer? Let's talk about that.
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Speaker 3: I would assume Alcam's razor. It poses the least questions,
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Speaker 3: And what proof do they really have of him caring
10:47
Speaker 3: said rifle from the scene. Nobody saw him actually lead
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Speaker 3: with it. The question you posed earlier, does it make
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Speaker 3: more sense that the government that was proven to be
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Speaker 3: complicit in his murder might have had something to do
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Speaker 3: with it than it does that this one guy just
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Speaker 3: happened to shoot him. Now, granted, there is a lot
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Speaker 3: of motive to just being a white dude shooting Martin
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Speaker 3: Luther King. That's he But I'm sure his family thanksfull. Yeah,
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Speaker 3: that's easy. It's got to be more to it than that.
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Speaker 1: Yeah.
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Speaker 2: I want people out there to imagine if a woman
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Speaker 2: was being stalked and the police had documented all this
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Speaker 2: evidence of her being stalked and followed. They know who's
11:24
Speaker 2: stalking her, they know who's following her, and then one
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Speaker 2: day she's mysteriously murdered and they find some stranger's fingerprints
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Speaker 2: on a soda bottle near her, and instead of going
11:36
Speaker 2: after the people who'd been stalking her for months and
11:38
Speaker 2: months and months.
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Speaker 1: They're like, Oh, it's probably the soda bottle person that
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Speaker 1: did it.
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Speaker 2: No, it's probably the people who've been so focused on
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Speaker 2: him for years before this.
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Speaker 1: We have so much.
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Speaker 2: Documentation of the things they did to surveil him, harass him,
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Speaker 2: stalk him. And I don't remember which resource I was reading,
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Speaker 2: but one of the things people point to, Oh, it's
12:03
Speaker 2: actually a book by William Pepper, who was James Alray's lawyer.
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Speaker 2: At the beginning of that book, he points out the
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Speaker 2: thing that probably got MLK killed above everything else, was
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Speaker 2: right near the end of his life, he came out
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Speaker 2: in opposition to the Vietnam War, really strongly opposed to
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Speaker 2: the Vietnam War. I could see that being a thing
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Speaker 2: that would put the American government over the edge because
12:31
Speaker 2: Vietnam was already such a huge sticking point with people,
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Speaker 2: and MLK already had such a huge following. You get
12:40
Speaker 2: those two things together and that was going to be
12:43
Speaker 2: big problems for the United States. So yeah, it stands
12:47
Speaker 2: to reason that it would have been the FBI over
12:50
Speaker 2: some loan wacko. And it brings me to a thing
12:55
Speaker 2: I talked about on last week's episode, which is whenever
12:59
Speaker 2: there's a story like this, you inevitably get some kind
13:03
Speaker 2: of conspiracy expert who gets in the newspapers or on
13:08
Speaker 2: TV and is just like, look, this is just people
13:11
Speaker 2: trying to make sense out of a world that doesn't
13:14
Speaker 2: make sense. And no, sometimes people just want answers and
13:18
Speaker 2: they're not getting them. And I think it's really offensive
13:22
Speaker 2: that they use that pushback. Here specifically, we'll link to
13:27
Speaker 2: a Washington Post article where they interview an MLK biographer
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Speaker 2: named Dave Garo, so old white dude, and he lays
13:37
Speaker 2: that fucking explanation on the King family. Here's what he
13:41
Speaker 2: told the Washington Post. Quote, the King children are part
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Speaker 2: of a larger population of American people who need to
13:48
Speaker 2: believe that the assassination of a King or a Kennedy
13:53
Speaker 2: must be the work of mightier forces rather than victims
13:56
Speaker 2: of small fry lifetime losers. People need to see something
14:01
Speaker 2: of a balance between effect and cause, that if something
14:04
Speaker 2: has a huge evil effect, it should be the result
14:07
Speaker 2: of a huge evil cause.
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Speaker 1: End quote.
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Speaker 2: Notice how he called them the King children. Koreta Scott
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Speaker 2: King has been suspecting that the FBI did this since
14:17
Speaker 2: the day her husband died.
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Speaker 1: Obviously, like, it's not.
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Speaker 2: Just the kids, So it's weird that he called them
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Speaker 2: the King children in that moment. They're the King family
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Speaker 2: like his wife.
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Speaker 3: Also, this line about the King children needed to be
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Speaker 3: more than just some wacko It makes sense from a
14:35
Speaker 3: writer's standpoint, but it doesn't make sense from a logical standpoint.
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Speaker 3: And with what you said about Martin Luther King opposing
14:43
Speaker 3: the Vietnam War, it's funny to me that because Martin
14:46
Speaker 3: Luther King was assassinated, for lack of a better term,
14:48
Speaker 3: white America has whitewashed his legacy so deeply that all
14:53
Speaker 3: we as Americans tend to remember is that I have
14:56
Speaker 3: a dream speech. Yeah, but even in that very speech,
15:00
Speaker 3: he was calling for much more than can't we all
15:02
Speaker 3: just get along? You know what I mean? Like people
15:04
Speaker 3: love to take those little sound bites of a black
15:06
Speaker 3: man who's been oppressed and be like, can't we all
15:09
Speaker 3: just get along? Or I dream of a day where
15:11
Speaker 3: my kids and your kids play together. Were content of
15:15
Speaker 3: our character, not the color of my skin. Yeah, they
15:17
Speaker 3: love doing that sound effect, but they never go back
15:19
Speaker 3: to he opposed the Vietnam War, or the nonviolence was
15:23
Speaker 3: just a strategy to get the world to see how
15:26
Speaker 3: evil the people against him were, and after a few
15:30
Speaker 3: ass weapons, like, all right, we ain't doing this shit
15:31
Speaker 3: in the world's get some security. And also he was
15:34
Speaker 3: staunchly about reparations, and personally, that's what I thought got
15:38
Speaker 3: him killed was the fact that there's a speech out
15:39
Speaker 3: there where he's like, we're coming next time we go
15:41
Speaker 3: to Washington, We're coming to get our check. People tend
15:43
Speaker 3: to make Martin Luther King as just this altruistic saint
15:47
Speaker 3: instead of a black man that wanted, like he wanted
15:50
Speaker 3: ultimately everyone to be able to live in harmony. But
15:53
Speaker 3: he was also more about just hey, black people are
15:56
Speaker 3: getting destroyed over here and this ain't right. And also
16:00
Speaker 3: patriotism is interesting. It went all over the Midwest this
16:03
Speaker 3: summer doing comedy and you see like people that just
16:06
Speaker 3: kind of believe that American dream is love the flag
16:09
Speaker 3: and God, family and football and all that stuff. But
16:12
Speaker 3: we don't take into account like the Vietnam War was
16:15
Speaker 3: mostly US just fighting a proxy war with Communism, but
16:18
Speaker 3: then we got directly involved in a whole country that
16:22
Speaker 3: barely had anything to do with that got bombed to
16:24
Speaker 3: the goddamn Stone Age. Fuck you, Henry Kissinger, CIA has
16:28
Speaker 3: toppled governments just because of either American interest or billionaire interests.
16:34
Speaker 3: That's what the word term banana republic comes from. And
16:37
Speaker 3: it's not displaced by Khakis. And when we look past
16:42
Speaker 3: all that, we know that we know this for a fact.
16:44
Speaker 3: It's written down, It's in it like history's written by
16:46
Speaker 3: the winterers. And it still got in the history books
16:48
Speaker 3: that we did this right. And we just looked past
16:51
Speaker 3: all that and just go to like you us say
16:55
Speaker 3: we'reever in a direct military conflict, instead of thinking of
16:58
Speaker 3: all the things our military does and the espionage of
17:00
Speaker 3: our government does. That's really some shady shit. Like America
17:04
Speaker 3: is a second and a half world country.
17:06
Speaker 2: Yeah, not just corrupt, but I think second and a
17:10
Speaker 2: half world country is a good way to put it.
17:12
Speaker 2: Another thing I bring up all the time is freedom
17:15
Speaker 2: of the press in this country.
17:17
Speaker 1: Like we love to think that we are.
17:20
Speaker 2: Just the freest nation on earth, and I mention all
17:24
Speaker 2: the time we're like fifty one on the Press Freedom
17:27
Speaker 2: Index fifty one. There are fifty countries ahead of us
17:31
Speaker 2: where the press is way more free than we are.
17:34
Speaker 2: But our press is better at being spun by the government.
17:38
Speaker 2: I think our government controls the media better than any government.
17:43
Speaker 3: We're good at controlling the media with misinformation instead of
17:47
Speaker 3: just out run. If you go to North Korea or
17:49
Speaker 3: Russia or China, if you just say the wrong thing,
17:52
Speaker 3: or god forbid you even get it close to the airwaves,
17:54
Speaker 3: they will just have you killed or disappeared. Let's just
17:57
Speaker 3: outright zero tolerance. We don't even have to do that.
18:00
Speaker 3: We get people to believe the propaganda so deep they'll
18:03
Speaker 3: fight each other over that shit.
18:05
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's so much detail to the James ear Alray
18:10
Speaker 2: case and his claims that he is innocent. I will
18:14
Speaker 2: make this a do your own research moment for people.
18:17
Speaker 2: There's a book out there by William Pepper, who was
18:21
Speaker 2: James Earl Ray's lawyer. It's called An Act of State
18:24
Speaker 2: and it lays out the entire case against the FBI
18:30
Speaker 2: basically as being the ones who did this. And the
18:34
Speaker 2: short version of the theory is j Edgar Hoover, via
18:38
Speaker 2: his longtime assistant Clyde Tolson, delivered cash to Underworld figures
18:43
Speaker 2: in Memphis, and one of those figures hired a Memphis
18:47
Speaker 2: police sharpshooter to fire the fatal shots that actually sounds
18:50
Speaker 2: more believable to me than a lone gunman who liked
18:54
Speaker 2: George Wallace a bunch decided to do.
18:57
Speaker 3: It and not to mention it. The lone gunman idea
19:00
Speaker 3: kind of sounds like the same dude like this kind
19:02
Speaker 3: of sounds like the dude that took a shot at
19:04
Speaker 3: Trump at his raelly, So alleged like that seems it
19:08
Speaker 3: feels like they just checked GBT that story back through
19:11
Speaker 3: a few more filters.
19:13
Speaker 2: Yeah, that wouldn't surprise me at all. And so a
19:16
Speaker 2: lot of why the Mlka family thinks James Ray is
19:19
Speaker 2: innocent is because of a man named Lloyd Jowers. He
19:23
Speaker 2: owned a cafe that was on the ground floor of
19:27
Speaker 2: the fucking flop house that James Lray is alleged to
19:31
Speaker 2: have shot from, which go watch your documentaries about this.
19:35
Speaker 2: If nothing else that window he would have had to
19:38
Speaker 2: shoot out of it would have been tough to get
19:41
Speaker 2: a clean shot off because it didn't open that far,
19:44
Speaker 2: so he would have almost had to end down but
19:46
Speaker 2: also point up to hit doctor King. So that part's weird.
19:50
Speaker 2: But Lloyd Showers owned a diner on the ground floor
19:54
Speaker 2: of that flop house where he was staying called I
19:59
Speaker 2: Think Jim's Cafe something like that, and for years and
20:02
Speaker 2: years and years he claimed he had nothing to do
20:05
Speaker 2: with it, but people did suspect him for some reason.
20:08
Speaker 2: And then in nineteen ninety three he went on the
20:12
Speaker 2: ABC news program Primetime Live and claimed he'd been paid
20:16
Speaker 2: one hundred thousand dollars by a Memphis mobster named Frank
20:20
Speaker 2: Leberto to help coordinate Mlka's assassination. And one important note
20:27
Speaker 2: that ties him and James Earlray together. They both implicate
20:32
Speaker 2: a strange Cuban dude named Raoul who. In James Earlray's case,
20:37
Speaker 2: he says he met this Raoul guy in Montreal and
20:41
Speaker 2: hoped he could help him get paperwork to get out
20:44
Speaker 2: of the country, and in exchange, he decides to work
20:48
Speaker 2: with this Raoul guy like smuggling guns. In James Earl
20:51
Speaker 2: Ray's contention has always been I delivered a gun to
20:55
Speaker 2: Raoul in Memphis that day, but I did not shoot
20:59
Speaker 2: Doctor King. Lloyd Jowers also says he was working with
21:03
Speaker 2: a guy named Raoul who paid him to hire the
21:08
Speaker 2: hitman to kill Doctor King, and Lloyd Jowers is the
21:13
Speaker 2: one who says he hired the basically local Memphis sheriff
21:16
Speaker 2: who was.
21:17
Speaker 1: A black dude.
21:18
Speaker 2: I thought that part was wow interesting, which if that's true,
21:24
Speaker 2: and I think I have his name, Sheriff Earl Clark
21:27
Speaker 2: is the Memphis sheriff who was claimed to be the
21:31
Speaker 2: shooter by Lloyd Jowers, And that would be an odd
21:35
Speaker 2: detail for sure. But also think about Fred Hampton. That's
21:39
Speaker 2: how it happened to Fred Hampton. It was a black informant.
21:42
Speaker 3: Yeah did it.
21:43
Speaker 1: I mean, he's not who did it, but he was responsible.
21:47
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly might as well who did it. And he
21:50
Speaker 3: ended up killing himself. I'm not sure if it was
21:52
Speaker 3: because of the guilt of that or whatever, but he
21:54
Speaker 3: ended up comitting suicide.
21:55
Speaker 2: So it was the night that news report aired about it,
22:00
Speaker 2: immediately went out and I believe walked into traffic.
22:03
Speaker 1: So probably because of that.
22:05
Speaker 3: The nature of the show being conspiracy, if you were
22:07
Speaker 3: being paid by the FBI and then it finally comes
22:10
Speaker 3: out that you were the one, maybe the same way.
22:12
Speaker 3: I don't want to keep red harrying everything before. Yeah,
22:14
Speaker 3: it makes sense that you decide to unlive yourself right
22:18
Speaker 3: as the heat's coming down, before anybody can ask you
22:20
Speaker 3: any undue questions.
22:22
Speaker 2: Yeah, that is about ninety nine percent of why I
22:27
Speaker 2: don't believe Jeffrey.
22:28
Speaker 1: Epstein committed suicide. I think Jeffrey Epstein was killed.
22:33
Speaker 2: I wouldn't be surprised if Sean Combs dies in jail.
22:38
Speaker 3: You know what's interesting about both of those situations. It's funny, true, true,
22:46
Speaker 3: No one's gonna miss these guys. When Shawn Comb's allegedly
22:49
Speaker 3: unlive themselves soon. It's one of those things where like
22:52
Speaker 3: we knew of them, but we didn't know what they
22:55
Speaker 3: were really all about. Jeffrey Epstein to a much lesser
22:58
Speaker 3: extent because he's not a soelebrity, but he was famous
23:01
Speaker 3: for being around people, for being this type of evil.
23:05
Speaker 3: And we've all heard rumors about this shit in Hollywood
23:08
Speaker 3: and in the music industry and whatnot for decades, and
23:12
Speaker 3: now it's just like coming home to roost. To your point, though,
23:16
Speaker 3: this happens so often that we laugh about it. Like
23:18
Speaker 3: I said, it's funny, But you know, if Diddy dies,
23:22
Speaker 3: and that's it's not gonna be funny because he's dead.
23:25
Speaker 3: It's gonna be funny because I told you so, you
23:27
Speaker 3: know what I mean. And it's gonna be funny because
23:29
Speaker 3: oh wow, Look, that's all we really can do with
23:32
Speaker 3: these type of things in America because we'll never really
23:35
Speaker 3: know the truth.
23:36
Speaker 2: And I don't know if this was the case with Diddy,
23:40
Speaker 2: but it seems like maybe, but definitely with Jeffrey Epstein.
23:44
Speaker 2: It wasn't just that he was a pedophile. He's holding
23:49
Speaker 2: these huge parties and then gathering blackmail evidence when people
23:55
Speaker 2: are also being pedophiles at his party, and that to
24:00
Speaker 2: me implies that you're working for a government, probably because
24:04
Speaker 2: it's one thing to blackmail powerful people, it's another to
24:09
Speaker 2: do it if you don't have any extra backing. Who
24:13
Speaker 2: the fuck is Jeffrey Epstein to someone else who is
24:15
Speaker 2: also very rich. But if he's also very rich and
24:20
Speaker 2: is like, also, I'm doing this for Israel or I'm
24:22
Speaker 2: doing this for the CIA, So you can try to
24:25
Speaker 2: push back, but that's not going to work. And I mean,
24:28
Speaker 2: if that's the case, fucking yeah, you're a fed You
24:31
Speaker 2: deserve whatever the fuck you get.
24:33
Speaker 1: On top of being a pedophile, you're a fetophile. That's
24:37
Speaker 1: worse government pedophile.
24:39
Speaker 3: This is a shot in the dark. Did you ever
24:40
Speaker 3: play any Grand Theft auto game?
24:42
Speaker 1: A little bit?
24:43
Speaker 3: You never played through the story mode? No, no, no, okay. So,
24:47
Speaker 3: whether it's Grand Theft Auto three, San andre Is four
24:51
Speaker 3: or five, at some point you go from being a
24:55
Speaker 3: gangster that works it's just working local, and then you
24:59
Speaker 3: go up a little more and now you're like the
25:01
Speaker 3: bigger part of the city and then like the But
25:03
Speaker 3: when you get to about three quarters through the game,
25:06
Speaker 3: that's when you either start working with the police, the
25:11
Speaker 3: some federal agency or both. And by the end of
25:13
Speaker 3: the game you got to do this crazy high stakes
25:16
Speaker 3: action set piece that involves like stealing from like the
25:19
Speaker 3: Federal reserve or blowing up like the federal agency or
25:22
Speaker 3: something like that. And I always say, there's a lot
25:25
Speaker 3: of truth in fiction. And the reason why that trope
25:27
Speaker 3: works and has been used so many times in the
25:29
Speaker 3: Grand Theft Auto game is because the further up you
25:32
Speaker 3: go and crime, you usually hit like a CIA or something.
25:36
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, that does make sense, and I need
25:39
Speaker 2: to play more Grand Theft Auto.
25:40
Speaker 3: That sounds funny. It's always great, especially when you live
25:44
Speaker 3: in la is the most cathartic way to blow off
25:46
Speaker 3: some steam, like it's the city you live in the
25:49
Speaker 3: city they've modeled, so yeah, I can finally blow up
25:51
Speaker 3: people on the prol five.
25:52
Speaker 1: It's like, oh, yeah, this is what it was like
25:54
Speaker 1: driving home.
25:54
Speaker 3: Today, helicopters and gunshots.
25:57
Speaker 1: And everything, and so it's important to know here.
26:00
Speaker 2: Lloyd Jower's girlfriend at the time also came forward at
26:03
Speaker 2: one point and said she saw him disassembling a rifle
26:07
Speaker 2: and hiding it under the counter at his diner shortly
26:10
Speaker 2: after the shooting. And with Lloyd Jowers again, I think
26:14
Speaker 2: Okham's raisor why would he lie about this? Why after
26:18
Speaker 2: all these years would you come out and say, oh, yeah,
26:22
Speaker 2: actually I was involved in the murder of doctor Martin
26:25
Speaker 2: Luther King. Because here's the thing, there's no statute of
26:28
Speaker 2: limitations on murder. He's taking a legitimate risk by doing this,
26:33
Speaker 2: and so I don't understand why he would lie about this,
26:38
Speaker 2: which has been kind of the argument as oh, well
26:41
Speaker 2: he's just lying.
26:42
Speaker 3: It's like yeah, I don't know. Yeah, like it's I
26:44
Speaker 3: keep doing this, but look similar to the guy that
26:46
Speaker 3: killed too. But why would you come out twenty years
26:49
Speaker 3: later and do that. There's no statute of limitations on
26:51
Speaker 3: murder and the clout you get is just going to
26:54
Speaker 3: put you in prison. Are you coming clean? Because you're
26:57
Speaker 3: trying to make money off this because if so, I
26:59
Speaker 3: don't see angle. And if you're coming clean just because
27:02
Speaker 3: you got away with it, then pursue it.
27:04
Speaker 1: Yeah.
27:05
Speaker 2: I think his problem was he trusted the police because
27:10
Speaker 2: that murder happened in Las Vegas, and at one point
27:14
Speaker 2: he did an interview with the LAPD and they were like, yeah,
27:17
Speaker 2: nothing you say.
27:18
Speaker 1: We're not going to prosecute you over anything you say.
27:23
Speaker 2: No, Dwayne Davis was, well, it depends on which version
27:27
Speaker 2: of events you're talking about.
27:28
Speaker 3: But oh, yeah, yeah, I'm talking. Yeah, I'm sorry, I'm
27:30
Speaker 3: talking about the.
27:32
Speaker 2: Notorious Big is the one who was probably murdered by
27:35
Speaker 2: the LAPD. Gotcha, Tupac was probably killed by Diddy.
27:41
Speaker 3: What makes it funny you killed Tubac on top of
27:43
Speaker 3: all this? Oh, I can't wait to see you get
27:45
Speaker 3: your come ups.
27:47
Speaker 2: The guy who killed Tupac and then started going on
27:50
Speaker 2: fucking podcasts and talking about it. The reason he started
27:54
Speaker 2: doing that is he had this meeting with the LAPD
27:56
Speaker 2: and they were like, all right, tell us everything you
27:58
Speaker 2: know and we won't prosecute you for it. And dude,
28:02
Speaker 2: you committed that crime in Las Vegas. The LAPD doesn't
28:06
Speaker 2: have any fucking jurisdiction over that. So he got this
28:10
Speaker 2: promise from the LAPD and was like, cool, I'm going
28:12
Speaker 2: to go on YouTube and talk about killing Tupac, and
28:16
Speaker 2: the Las Vegas PD was like, wait, what that's interesting.
28:19
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, he was just dumb. He took the cops
28:24
Speaker 1: word for it.
28:25
Speaker 3: Don't ever trust the police. That's half the reason the
28:28
Speaker 3: lawyers have jobs.
28:30
Speaker 2: So the trial itself, it lasted four weeks. It took
28:34
Speaker 2: the jury one hour to decide that Lloyd Jowers and
28:39
Speaker 2: government agencies did conspire to kill doctor Martin Luther King Junior.
28:44
Speaker 2: I'll link to a transcript of the trial. It's very involved.
28:48
Speaker 2: We don't have time to go into all the details.
28:51
Speaker 2: The verdict is the more important part. But if you
28:55
Speaker 2: are a subscriber, you can listen to last week's bonus
28:58
Speaker 2: episode where me and John Lewis cover a interesting part
29:04
Speaker 2: of this story. After Lloyd Jowers gave that interview, in
29:07
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety three, HBO held a mock trial of James
29:13
Speaker 2: Earl Ray. And when I say mock trial, it was
29:17
Speaker 2: actual lawyers. It was an actual judge, albeit a retired judge.
29:21
Speaker 2: They selected a jury the way those lawyers would have
29:25
Speaker 2: selected the jury in the case.
29:27
Speaker 1: The only thing that wasn't legit was it was.
29:30
Speaker 2: A mock trial, but otherwise it was very similar to
29:33
Speaker 2: what a trial of James Olray would have.
29:36
Speaker 3: Looked like, well, like a trial stimulation.
29:38
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they even questioned James Olray from his prison cell.
29:43
Speaker 1: So it's interesting.
29:45
Speaker 2: It's I don't want to give it away, but listen
29:47
Speaker 2: to last week's episode if you want more details about
29:51
Speaker 2: this trial and the HBO mock trial. But the verdict,
29:57
Speaker 2: it was a civil suit and the jury only a
29:59
Speaker 2: ward did the King family one hundred dollars, But that's
30:03
Speaker 2: because that's all the family was requesting. They didn't want
30:06
Speaker 2: it to look like they were suing because of money,
30:09
Speaker 2: which we'll talk about it more later.
30:11
Speaker 1: But I feel like that was a mistake.
30:13
Speaker 2: I do too, because one of the pushbacks you get
30:16
Speaker 2: when people are debunking the idea that the government was
30:20
Speaker 2: found responsible is, oh, well, they barely defended themselves because
30:24
Speaker 2: there was nothing really on the line, And did they
30:28
Speaker 2: barely defend themselves or could.
30:30
Speaker 1: They not defend themselves?
30:32
Speaker 2: So they just decided to barely defend themselves instead because
30:37
Speaker 2: there was never going to be any especially with one
30:40
Speaker 2: hundred dollars on the line. There was nothing really incentivizing
30:45
Speaker 2: the government to tell the truth.
30:46
Speaker 3: Here.
30:47
Speaker 2: We're going to talk about another trial that's coming up
30:49
Speaker 2: soon where it might be a different story.
30:52
Speaker 1: But yeah, I think the one hundred dollars was a mistake.
30:54
Speaker 3: I think it was a mistake just on a simple
30:56
Speaker 3: fact that you're you're never gonna get the money that
30:59
Speaker 3: you're that the Martin Luther King Junior state is truly
31:02
Speaker 3: owed for the amount of times they have plagiarized his speech,
31:08
Speaker 3: the amount of time they use him, use his name,
31:10
Speaker 3: image and likeness. And Martin Luther King Junior today was
31:14
Speaker 3: an NCAA football player, he would be worth hundreds of
31:18
Speaker 3: millions of dollars. Yeah, So for that reason alone, they
31:22
Speaker 3: should have gotten any money from the US government. Like
31:25
Speaker 3: it's not like I understand the principle of the thing,
31:27
Speaker 3: and you just want justice, because that's what Martin Luther
31:30
Speaker 3: King is all about. But it's also justice from a
31:33
Speaker 3: business standpoint, honestly, for the for the simple fact, and
31:36
Speaker 3: I'm gonna talk about my own people for a second,
31:38
Speaker 3: the fact that every Martin Luther King day, I see
31:41
Speaker 3: these fucking club flyers that have Martin Luther King with
31:45
Speaker 3: fade and the line through it. The way that we've
31:48
Speaker 3: just been able to bastardize this man's image is like
31:52
Speaker 3: the family should get something for all this shit.
31:56
Speaker 2: That reminds me of the Marilyn Monroe shirts you see
31:58
Speaker 2: all the time, where she'll have like a bunch of
32:01
Speaker 2: tattoos and she's holding a.
32:02
Speaker 1: Soccer ball flag behind her.
32:05
Speaker 3: Yeah, like she's like on the back of a harle
32:07
Speaker 3: Like she's on the back of the Kawasaki. And it's
32:09
Speaker 3: like those didn't even exist when she was alive. What
32:11
Speaker 3: are you talking about?
32:12
Speaker 2: Yeah, she's wearing a Niners jersey and holding a gun
32:15
Speaker 2: Like that is not her image at all. That would
32:18
Speaker 2: be a bottle of pills in her hand, not a gun.
32:20
Speaker 3: Damn. I'm pretty sure I was dated a girl that's
32:23
Speaker 3: had a Marilyn No, I'm certain of dated a girl
32:26
Speaker 3: that had a Marilyn been Road tattoo. But she had
32:28
Speaker 3: a gold grill in her smile. I like that classy,
32:31
Speaker 3: Like she was a classy lady.
32:32
Speaker 2: By the way, Wait, did the girl have the gold
32:35
Speaker 2: grill or did the Marilyn Monroe tattoo have the gold grill?
32:40
Speaker 3: Yes? Like she wasn't wearing it when I met her,
32:43
Speaker 3: But she did possess one.
32:47
Speaker 2: And so yeah, like I said, there were four weeks
32:50
Speaker 2: of testimony. It took one hour for the jury to
32:53
Speaker 2: deliberate and find that Lloyd Jowers, as well as quote
32:56
Speaker 2: others including governmental agencies, were with responsible for a conspiracy
33:01
Speaker 2: to assassinate MLK. And at the time of the verdict
33:06
Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety nine, Dexter King, mlk's youngest son said,
33:09
Speaker 2: quote this is vindication for us end quote, and that
33:13
Speaker 2: he hoped history books would be rewritten to include this
33:17
Speaker 2: version of his father's murder.
33:19
Speaker 3: All right, They wouldn't have done that if it was
33:22
Speaker 3: in the judgment. That is, like the US government or
33:25
Speaker 3: any this is a big bank take little bank, one
33:27
Speaker 3: on one. At any point in time, when you win
33:31
Speaker 3: a case against a large entity or a corporation or
33:35
Speaker 3: a government, the first thing they make sure that they
33:38
Speaker 3: put into that contract that they're paying you is that
33:40
Speaker 3: they don't have to admit to any liability. They don't
33:44
Speaker 3: have to. They'll owe you an apology. They don't have
33:45
Speaker 3: to make any wrongdoing. It doesn't even matter. Like they
33:48
Speaker 3: were found guilty, but they're not sorry. That's the first
33:51
Speaker 3: thing you want to say, so, Yeah, you're thinking they're
33:53
Speaker 3: going to rewrite the history books to put in Oh,
33:55
Speaker 3: Martin Luther King was assassinated by the government. Sorry about that. No, Like,
34:01
Speaker 3: we have states that have taken black history off the
34:04
Speaker 3: history books and you want them to put something in.
34:08
Speaker 1: Yeah.
34:09
Speaker 2: They haven't even updated the Wikipedia page to say that
34:12
Speaker 2: James Ray didn't do it, much less fucking history books.
34:17
Speaker 2: I've mentioned a bunch of times that Snopes wrote an
34:21
Speaker 2: article debunking the idea that the government was found responsible
34:27
Speaker 2: for this, and it is one of my least favorite
34:31
Speaker 2: articles on the internet.
34:32
Speaker 1: I'm glad I was able to find it again.
34:35
Speaker 2: My problem with their debunking speaks to something I say
34:39
Speaker 2: about the media all the time, which is that they
34:42
Speaker 2: just inherently trust the government. If someone says the government
34:48
Speaker 2: did something, so many times the media will reach out
34:51
Speaker 2: to the government and go, did you do this thing
34:53
Speaker 2: that people are saying, And when the government says no,
34:56
Speaker 2: they label it a conspiracy theory. That's not journalism helping
35:00
Speaker 2: the government get away with shit. And this Snopes article,
35:04
Speaker 2: to me, is just such a representative example of that
35:09
Speaker 2: because all they refer to in debunking this is this
35:15
Speaker 2: Department of Justice investigation that was done after this verdict
35:20
Speaker 2: came out where surprise, the government looked into it and
35:24
Speaker 2: found that none of these claims were credible and that
35:27
Speaker 2: James Lay acted alone and was the only shooter. And well, yeah,
35:31
Speaker 2: no shit, like no shit, they would say that, And
35:34
Speaker 2: I again, I know a lot of times it's more
35:38
Speaker 2: like democrats and liberal types who are so hesitant to
35:42
Speaker 2: believe a theory like this, but at the same time
35:46
Speaker 2: will fucking howl when there's a police shooting and the
35:50
Speaker 2: police are like, don't worry, we're going to investigate. No, no,
35:54
Speaker 2: you don't get to investigate.
35:56
Speaker 1: You did it. And it's the same thing here.
36:00
Speaker 2: But so many people in this case are like, see
36:03
Speaker 2: the government looked into it and decided they didn't do it.
36:07
Speaker 2: Of course they decided they didn't do it. Don't be
36:09
Speaker 2: dumb real quick.
36:10
Speaker 3: To that point about the police investigating the police shooting.
36:13
Speaker 3: The one time I've seen the police shooting go the
36:16
Speaker 3: way that the justice system should is when in Minnesota
36:21
Speaker 3: when that I think he was Ethiopian or Kenyon or
36:24
Speaker 3: something that was an Ethiopian immigrant police officer, black man
36:28
Speaker 3: killed a white woman from Australia and they threw that
36:31
Speaker 3: dude under the jail. Within a month they were convicted
36:35
Speaker 3: of murder wrong or not murder. It was like the
36:38
Speaker 3: worst kind of manslaughter possibly, Yeah, like fifteen years no
36:42
Speaker 3: backing from the police union, and the city like immediately
36:45
Speaker 3: gave that woman's family like twenty five million dollars And
36:48
Speaker 3: I was like, huh yeah, wow, wow, how fast that works.
36:53
Speaker 1: Well, they want white people to think they're still safe
36:55
Speaker 1: from the police.
36:57
Speaker 3: Obviously, thank you for saying the part that I could.
37:02
Speaker 2: Yeah, Snopes. Throughout this whole thing, they're just citing this department,
37:06
Speaker 2: which we'll link to the Department of Justice investigation too.
37:09
Speaker 2: And I don't know why anyone would consider that journalism
37:14
Speaker 2: or why anyone would look at this and go, oh, yeah,
37:17
Speaker 2: well Snope said they didn't do it, so of course
37:20
Speaker 2: they didn't do it. And another really frustrating thing about
37:23
Speaker 2: their article is we mentioned that one hundred dollars in
37:26
Speaker 2: damages before they bring that up in this Snopes article
37:30
Speaker 2: as if to say, oh, well, that's all the jury
37:34
Speaker 2: gave them was one hundred dollars. So this paltry award
37:38
Speaker 2: and you think this lawsuit means something And Meanwhile, I
37:41
Speaker 2: already mentioned it's what the King family asked for was
37:44
Speaker 2: one hundred dollars. It's not like Trump versus the NFL,
37:48
Speaker 2: where he sued the NFL and won, but the jury
37:51
Speaker 2: was like, we're going to give you a dollar because
37:55
Speaker 2: they hate you, and this is stupid. This is different.
37:58
Speaker 2: They were just trying to like make a point by
38:01
Speaker 2: not asking for money. And I think the way history
38:04
Speaker 2: looks back on it now is, oh, one hundred dollars,
38:07
Speaker 2: it must have been nothing.
38:08
Speaker 1: There must have been nothing to it. And Nope, that's
38:11
Speaker 1: not correct.
38:12
Speaker 2: The only people who think there's nothing to this are
38:15
Speaker 2: Snopes and the government that was found liable for doing this.
38:19
Speaker 3: My comedian brain wants to think, wants to make this
38:22
Speaker 3: this trial in like nineteen seventy for where one hundred
38:26
Speaker 3: dollars was like ten grand. But even then that's not enough. Yeah,
38:32
Speaker 3: they suited for one hundred dollars in nineteen to one
38:33
Speaker 3: or two wood that was enough to buy a state.
38:37
Speaker 1: Yeah.
38:37
Speaker 2: On our episode last week, we talked about this MK
38:40
Speaker 2: Ultra psychiatrist who the CIA gave him sixty thousand dollars
38:46
Speaker 2: for his work that spanned a bunch of years.
38:49
Speaker 1: Well, that doesn't sound like much in today's money. Six
38:52
Speaker 1: hundred and ninety thousand dollars. Oh yeah, that is that's
38:56
Speaker 1: quite It's pretty good.
38:57
Speaker 3: But in today's money you would still be getting like
39:00
Speaker 3: millions of dollars for a conspiracy theory. Oh yeah, you
39:02
Speaker 3: gotta break me off, bro Oh yeah, eight figure is
39:06
Speaker 3: no less.
39:08
Speaker 2: But that one hundred dollars might have made this case
39:12
Speaker 2: seem a little less legitimate in the eyes of people.
39:15
Speaker 2: But now here comes the Malcolm X family lawsuit. I
39:18
Speaker 2: am super interested to see how this goes because it
39:23
Speaker 2: was filed last year and it seems like there hasn't
39:26
Speaker 2: been a trial yet, so there's not a ton of
39:28
Speaker 2: information about it other than that the family is seeking
39:32
Speaker 2: one hundred million dollars.
39:35
Speaker 1: From the government.
39:37
Speaker 2: And this one is super interesting because if people haven't
39:42
Speaker 2: been following the news, two of the three men who
39:45
Speaker 2: were convicted of killing Malcolm X have been exonerated and released.
39:51
Speaker 2: There was the and the one who hasn't been exonerated
39:54
Speaker 2: was literally like caught with a gun in his hand
39:57
Speaker 2: and beat by a crowd of people at the scene.
40:00
Speaker 1: So he confessed.
40:01
Speaker 2: But also when he confessed, he was like those two
40:04
Speaker 2: other dudes you arrested.
40:06
Speaker 1: That's not who did it. THO I had help, but
40:08
Speaker 1: that's not who it was.
40:09
Speaker 2: And all these years later, like immediately after he said that,
40:14
Speaker 2: we released them forty years later or so, And that
40:18
Speaker 2: means the other involved parties are either still alive or
40:22
Speaker 2: lived out the rest of their lives, never having been
40:25
Speaker 2: taken to task for what they did. But very important detail,
40:29
Speaker 2: and the FBI themselves are the ones who have acknowledged this.
40:33
Speaker 2: There were ten FBI agents in the room when Malcolm
40:37
Speaker 2: X was killed. What Yeah, not just that, but the
40:42
Speaker 2: venue where he was at. Again, this is the nineteen sixties,
40:46
Speaker 2: and this venue where he was at was known to
40:49
Speaker 2: hold events by black progressives very regularly, so you won't
40:54
Speaker 2: be surprised at all to know it was normally swimming
40:58
Speaker 2: with fucking police, normally police all around that building the
41:03
Speaker 2: day Malcolm X was killed. There were two cops on
41:05
Speaker 2: the roof and that's it. There were none at the door,
41:08
Speaker 2: there were none inside, there were none patrolling, But there
41:11
Speaker 2: were ten FBI agents in the room. Fucking Elijah Muhammad's
41:17
Speaker 2: like second in command was an FBI informant.
41:21
Speaker 3: Wow.
41:22
Speaker 2: Yeah, so this lawsuit is going to be really fucking interesting,
41:28
Speaker 2: and it's not nineteen ninety nine anymore. I think if
41:31
Speaker 2: this goes not the government's way, we're gonna hear a
41:34
Speaker 2: fucking lot about it, and I hope that would be good.
41:38
Speaker 3: That is some crazy details you just dropped on me,
41:40
Speaker 3: because what I know about Martin Luther kickup yet. But
41:43
Speaker 3: Malcolm X's assassination was it looked like it was the
41:46
Speaker 3: Nation of Islam. But if you tell me it's FBI,
41:49
Speaker 3: I'm totally believing. You say there's ten agents in the
41:52
Speaker 3: room when he died, and that's confirmable. They then that
41:56
Speaker 3: was an assassination, like they sanctioned it because they were there,
42:00
Speaker 3: did nothing to stop.
42:00
Speaker 2: It, right, and even if no one in the FBI
42:04
Speaker 2: pulled the trigger. I think the FBI does the same
42:08
Speaker 2: thing to social justice and progressive movements that the CIA
42:14
Speaker 2: does in other countries, where instead of being directly responsible
42:20
Speaker 2: for what happens, they'll just send someone in pretending to
42:23
Speaker 2: be part of that group who just starts putting shit
42:26
Speaker 2: in people's ears about what they might want to consider doing.
42:30
Speaker 2: And in other countries it's the CIA being like, hey,
42:34
Speaker 2: you sure you don't want topple this government?
42:36
Speaker 1: You're living under. We got people we can tell you
42:38
Speaker 1: how to do it.
42:39
Speaker 2: We don't want to do it, but if you want
42:40
Speaker 2: to do it, we'll help you do it. And with
42:42
Speaker 2: the FBI, all it would have taken was them getting
42:45
Speaker 2: someone in the Nation of Islam to just keep suggesting,
42:49
Speaker 2: you know, Malcolm X is becoming a bit of a problem,
42:52
Speaker 2: and he was within the Nation of Islam, like there
42:56
Speaker 2: was some conflict between him and Elijah Muhammad, So it
43:00
Speaker 2: wouldn't have been hard for the FBI to just stoke
43:03
Speaker 2: those kind of tensions to the point that someone fucking
43:07
Speaker 2: shot Malcolm X.
43:09
Speaker 3: You said yourself that Elijah Behammad's second in command was
43:12
Speaker 3: an informant, So they already it's that's all I really
43:15
Speaker 3: need to know, like they have, they're that high up.
43:17
Speaker 3: Then what else is the of course they could do that.
43:19
Speaker 3: Maybe that's the guy that was saying it.
43:20
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that wouldn't surprise me.
43:22
Speaker 2: And so yeah, I'm fascinated to see how this trial
43:26
Speaker 2: goes if it goes to trial.
43:29
Speaker 1: Which it absolutely should.
43:30
Speaker 2: I don't know how it can't now that two innocent
43:33
Speaker 2: men have been exonerated in this killing. Fucking fire it
43:37
Speaker 2: back up. Let's see who actually did it? Who you're
43:39
Speaker 2: gonna frame next? Interested to see?
43:41
Speaker 3: I can see how I could go not go to court.
43:43
Speaker 3: I can see like how they can settle over like
43:45
Speaker 3: seventy five million out of court, because, like we said
43:48
Speaker 3: earlier in this episode, the Pentagon lost five trillion dollars
43:52
Speaker 3: just you know, in the couch Cus from somewhere. Hey,
43:55
Speaker 3: I never know, you know, they could have fallen up
43:57
Speaker 3: a truck or something like that. But I mean, Budbo,
43:59
Speaker 3: so like, it wouldn't be hard for them to just
44:02
Speaker 3: if it keeps them from asking a lot of difficult questions.
44:05
Speaker 3: I could see them just paying that money out and
44:06
Speaker 3: be like, fuck it the same way did he was
44:08
Speaker 3: like how much you want fifty million? Give it to it. Fuck,
44:10
Speaker 3: let's avoid this as long as we can.
44:12
Speaker 2: Yeah, and especially with the government, that's always a sign
44:16
Speaker 2: that something is up, because otherwise the government will fight
44:19
Speaker 2: the shit out of people who say they're doing wrong.
44:22
Speaker 3: Yeah.
44:23
Speaker 2: A good example is there's that Netflix documentary Wormwood, which
44:27
Speaker 2: is about CIA agent Frank Olsen, who the official story
44:32
Speaker 2: is still that the CIA gave him too much LSD
44:35
Speaker 2: and oops he went crazy and jumped out a window.
44:39
Speaker 2: It seems pretty likely that the CIA murdered him. He
44:43
Speaker 2: did not jump out a window, and it wasn't Yes,
44:46
Speaker 2: they gave him too much acid, but the acid didn't
44:49
Speaker 2: make him crazy. It gave him a conscience. And what
44:52
Speaker 2: they suggest in that documentary is Frank Olsen was going
44:55
Speaker 2: to go public and tell people that we used chemical
44:59
Speaker 2: weapons in Korea during the Korean War, and that whole
45:03
Speaker 2: thing where if you watch the documentary, they like sequester
45:07
Speaker 2: him for a few days, take him away from his wife,
45:10
Speaker 2: and it's like they're just trying to talk to him
45:12
Speaker 2: and trying to get him to change his mind, and
45:15
Speaker 2: it seems like that's what was happening. They were like,
45:17
Speaker 2: all right, so you're not actually going to say that
45:19
Speaker 2: we used chemical weapons, and it seems like he, for
45:23
Speaker 2: the most part, was like yeah, I am, and they
45:26
Speaker 2: fucking tossed him out a window over it. And what's
45:29
Speaker 2: interesting about that is when his family started complaining and
45:33
Speaker 2: asking questions, the CIA immediately was like, yeah, you're right,
45:37
Speaker 2: we gave him too much LSD and he jumped out
45:39
Speaker 2: a window.
45:39
Speaker 1: Got us, you got us?
45:43
Speaker 3: Wait wait, wait, you're telling me, ma'am was agent. We'll
45:47
Speaker 3: see those experiments for CIA. And then next thing you'll
45:51
Speaker 3: know he has secrets about federal agency and finds his
45:54
Speaker 3: way out the window. Sounds very Erosian to me. Exactly
45:59
Speaker 3: was he running for office against Pulton?
46:03
Speaker 2: And yeah, the fact that the CIA not only did
46:06
Speaker 2: they accept responsibility for that part of the story, Oh yeah,
46:10
Speaker 2: we gave him too much acid and he committed suicide.
46:11
Speaker 1: Sorry.
46:12
Speaker 2: They were also like, you want to meet the president?
46:14
Speaker 2: You guys commit you want you meet Gerald Ford? And
46:17
Speaker 2: when is the CIA ever like that?
46:20
Speaker 3: Never right before they kill you?
46:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, when do they even acknowledge that they fucking exist?
46:27
Speaker 2: And in that case, they were like, ah, got us
46:30
Speaker 2: help you use chemical weapons in Korea?
46:32
Speaker 3: Probably remember that time the CIA busted for basically facilitating
46:39
Speaker 3: drugs to be cracked to exist in America and went
46:44
Speaker 3: all the way up to one of the generals in
46:45
Speaker 3: the army and the sitting vice president at the time.
46:48
Speaker 1: Didn't matter.
46:50
Speaker 3: Rumors. We've only had six movies and two TVs multi
46:54
Speaker 3: season TV series about this very same subject. Nobody seems
46:58
Speaker 3: to care. It's just content.
47:00
Speaker 1: It's just rumors. Corey.
47:02
Speaker 2: Here's what was happening was inner city black people taking
47:06
Speaker 2: very expensive flights to South and Central America, buying cocaine
47:10
Speaker 2: and then easily smuggling.
47:12
Speaker 1: It back across the border. That's obviously what happened.
47:15
Speaker 3: Yeah, because no one checked black people's bag bags at
47:17
Speaker 3: the airport.
47:18
Speaker 1: No, No, that would that would go really smooth.
47:21
Speaker 3: Yeah, and who and what what reason wouldn't some some
47:24
Speaker 3: black guy from south central Los Angeles have to go
47:26
Speaker 3: to Nicaragua or or or Columbia. He knows people out there,
47:30
Speaker 3: come on exactly.
47:31
Speaker 1: Yeah.
47:32
Speaker 2: Yeah, the that CIA story is nuts, But it is
47:37
Speaker 2: just another example of the thing I say all the time.
47:40
Speaker 2: So what what are we gonna do about it? Like
47:43
Speaker 2: it's the CIA? I say all the time. This is
47:45
Speaker 2: essentially just a true crime podcast. But the criminal is
47:48
Speaker 2: always the government.
47:49
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you're right, what can we do because like
47:53
Speaker 3: you're trying to, like you keep presenting evidence about the
47:57
Speaker 3: government to the government against the government, expecting the government
48:01
Speaker 3: to be like, all right, we did it.
48:03
Speaker 2: Yeah, but never going to happen unless you come up
48:07
Speaker 2: with a better cover story than the one they're telling.
48:09
Speaker 3: The only way anything could happen is in some world
48:13
Speaker 3: where America wasn't like a world leader in both finance
48:17
Speaker 3: and military. If NATO or like the UN is able
48:22
Speaker 3: to sanction us because there's otherwise it is. We're literally
48:25
Speaker 3: you can't bully the bully. Yeah, like we're too powerful
48:29
Speaker 3: for anything to happen.
48:30
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah for now at least.
48:33
Speaker 3: Yeah.
48:35
Speaker 1: Empires don't usually last this long.
48:37
Speaker 3: Yeah. Rome wasn't built in the day, but it felt
48:39
Speaker 3: pretty fast, didn't it.
48:40
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, did fall pretty quick. So yeah, I think
48:44
Speaker 2: that's our episode. I just want to reiterate when people
48:47
Speaker 2: say this story isn't as major as it seems, I
48:51
Speaker 2: think that's propaganda. I think that's I mean, there's that
48:54
Speaker 2: government report, the Department of Justice report. If you want
48:57
Speaker 2: to take the government at their word over the killing
49:00
Speaker 2: of malcl of Martin Luther King Junior, I guess, go ahead,
49:04
Speaker 2: But that seems like a silly fucking proposition. This government
49:09
Speaker 2: you trust to be telling the truth about this. Okay, Okay,
49:13
Speaker 2: it's fine. We'll see how the Malcolm X trial goes. Corey,
49:17
Speaker 2: thank you so much for doing the pod.
49:18
Speaker 1: I appreciate it.
49:19
Speaker 3: Thanks for having us fun.
49:21
Speaker 2: What do we have to plug before we get out
49:23
Speaker 2: of here? All I got is my solo podcast in
49:25
Speaker 2: Broad Daylight. You can listen to it wherever podcasts are
49:28
Speaker 2: or on YouTube at Adam Todd Brown Comedy and I
49:30
Speaker 2: guess you can follow me on Instagram at Adam Todd Brown.
49:33
Speaker 1: That's Todd with one D. Corey, what do you got
49:35
Speaker 1: to plug?
49:35
Speaker 3: Let's see. I will be in the Santa Cruz Comedy
49:38
Speaker 3: Festival this week on the tenth up there in Santa Cruz.
49:41
Speaker 3: Check the website Santa Cruz Comedy Festival dot com for
49:44
Speaker 3: all that goodness I'm doing. I'm producing a show in Pleasanton,
49:48
Speaker 3: California at Tommy T's on November twenty seventh, the day
49:51
Speaker 3: before Thanksgiving. And other than that, I am just looking
49:55
Speaker 3: for work out here in these streets. Follow me on
49:57
Speaker 3: Instagram at Corey showtime.
49:58
Speaker 1: All right, and let's get out of here. Corey say
50:02
Speaker 1: goodbye bye.
50:03
Speaker 3: Everybody, have a good one. Don't trust the government.
50:05
Speaker 1: Goodbye, everybody. Definitely, do not trust the government. We love you,
50:09
Speaker 1: and fuck the police.