Latest / The Knife: A True Crime Podcast / Hannah & Patia Were on My Favorite Murder!

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Hannah & Patia Were on My Favorite Murder! · The Knife: A True Crime Podcast

0:16
Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to my Favorite Murder. That's Georgia Hartstar,
0:20
Speaker 1: that's Karen kil Gareff, and.
0:21
Speaker 2: Today we have some very special guests to show you.
0:25
Speaker 2: They are luminaries in the true crime podcast space. You
0:29
Speaker 2: probably know them from their work on the amazing podcast
0:33
Speaker 2: The Opportunist.
0:34
Speaker 1: And now they have a brilliant new podcast that's going
0:36
Speaker 1: to be living right here in our little universe of
0:40
Speaker 1: exactly right Media. It's called The Knife and it premieres
0:43
Speaker 1: on March twenty seventh. We're so excited to have Patia
0:46
Speaker 1: Eton and Hannah Smith here with us the Knife Yay podcast. Yes,
0:51
Speaker 1: this has been so thrilling, so exciting. We finally got
0:56
Speaker 1: to tell everyone, and now you're here on the network. Welcome.
1:00
Speaker 3: It's the best feeling. We're so excited, so excited.
1:03
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah. When you guys came with this idea,
1:06
Speaker 1: we were it was like a hard yes immediately of course,
1:10
Speaker 1: what made you guys come up? Like what was your
1:12
Speaker 1: Because you came off The Opportunist, you still wanted to
1:15
Speaker 1: do true crime, but this is like kind of heavier,
1:17
Speaker 1: darker stuff, like what made you want to get into
1:19
Speaker 1: that world a little more?
1:22
Speaker 3: Yeah?
1:23
Speaker 4: So you know, we had a lot of time doing
1:26
Speaker 4: the Opportunists to sort of think about what it is
1:29
Speaker 4: that we like about the stories that we're telling. And
1:33
Speaker 4: we spent a lot of time focusing on these bigger
1:36
Speaker 4: seasoned stories where we're interviewing eight to ten people, which is,
1:40
Speaker 4: you know, fantastic and you know, in a great way
1:43
Speaker 4: to tell stories. But Patia and I would talk a
1:45
Speaker 4: lot about an interview that we did with like one
1:48
Speaker 4: victim of a crime that would stick with us, and
1:52
Speaker 4: we would end up having to cut so much of
1:54
Speaker 4: that in order to serve this bigger story, and we
1:58
Speaker 4: would talk about like, but this could be a story
2:01
Speaker 4: in and of itself, this could be an episode. And
2:03
Speaker 4: so when we decided to do a show together, we
2:07
Speaker 4: thought about that and wanted to do like more personal, intimate,
2:11
Speaker 4: and more in depth stories with people whose lives have
2:15
Speaker 4: been impacted by a crime, and so that we can
2:17
Speaker 4: hear the whole story from the incident all the way
2:20
Speaker 4: through the aftermath and just really sit with those stories
2:24
Speaker 4: and give them time and space.
2:26
Speaker 2: Yeah.
2:26
Speaker 3: Yeah, became really apparent that when someone was the victim
2:31
Speaker 3: of a crime, that crime was then like what's the
2:34
Speaker 3: word reverberating throughout their life. Even when we would talk
2:38
Speaker 3: to people where something happened ten twenty years before, it
2:41
Speaker 3: was like still just so recent for them in a way,
2:45
Speaker 3: and that felt really powerful to us. And also just
2:48
Speaker 3: the freedom to tell stories that weren't in such a
2:51
Speaker 3: specific lens like on our last show, which was really
2:55
Speaker 3: cool but also left us with like we'd send each
2:57
Speaker 3: other articles and it's like, oh, it doesn't fit show,
3:00
Speaker 3: and we didn't want to be bound by that anymore,
3:03
Speaker 3: and we just thought, I wonder if Karen and Georgia
3:06
Speaker 3: would hear this pitch. Yes, we were.
3:09
Speaker 2: Like hell yeah, hell yeah, Hannah, when you were on
3:13
Speaker 2: My Favorite Murder, I think it was like three years ago,
3:15
Speaker 2: or wasn't that.
3:16
Speaker 3: COVID My god, I mean five years ago.
3:21
Speaker 2: That was one of our most popular episodes. Of course,
3:25
Speaker 2: I have listened to every episode of The Opportunist, which
3:28
Speaker 2: I know you also produced and worked on too.
3:31
Speaker 3: So yeah, I mean you guys.
3:32
Speaker 2: The second Danielle was like, oh, Hannah Smith and Paige
3:37
Speaker 2: eat and have a pitch. We're just like the answers,
3:39
Speaker 2: Yes we don't if they have a podcast about popcorn.
3:42
Speaker 1: The answer is.
3:43
Speaker 3: Yes, Well that was our next I'm so happy to
3:46
Speaker 3: hear that, y Yeah, yeah, cool, Yeah, exactly, We're going
3:51
Speaker 3: for kettle corn. Yeah, very controversial.
3:54
Speaker 2: Did you guys meet on The Opportunist?
3:56
Speaker 3: Is that where you first started working together? We did? Yeah,
3:58
Speaker 3: we met on the Opportunity.
4:00
Speaker 4: Yeah.
4:00
Speaker 3: I emailed the CEO of the company that thought that,
4:05
Speaker 3: you know, oversaw the Opportunist owned that show, and I
4:08
Speaker 3: was like, I wouldn't work in podcast week, but I've
4:10
Speaker 3: never done it before, Like would you can I interview
4:13
Speaker 3: on something? And I ended up getting an associate producer
4:16
Speaker 3: interview on the show. Didn't get it.
4:19
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right.
4:19
Speaker 4: I was like, no way, I did not make that decision.
4:26
Speaker 3: He assistance is everything. Yeah, and yeah from then on,
4:30
Speaker 3: I So I joined The Opportunist in April of twenty
4:33
Speaker 3: twenty one.
4:34
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, and so I did the first season. So
4:38
Speaker 4: you came on in season two, and you know, I
4:41
Speaker 4: had been that was like the biggest break of my
4:43
Speaker 4: career at that point. I'd been working in podcasting since
4:46
Speaker 4: twenty seventeen, and I had also been thinking a lot
4:50
Speaker 4: about like wanting a creative partner. You know, I'd worked,
4:53
Speaker 4: I'd been around people that had creative partnerships, had really
4:57
Speaker 4: like you know, envied that and hoped for that, and
5:00
Speaker 4: I start working on the show. And even though it
5:03
Speaker 4: was like her first foray into podcasting and she'd worked
5:05
Speaker 4: in film and television a lot, she's you know, a
5:07
Speaker 4: great writer and was doing this career transition, which is
5:10
Speaker 4: something that I had also done into podcasting a few
5:13
Speaker 4: years before. So it just as soon as we met,
5:15
Speaker 4: it was like, oh, we're both like on this same
5:17
Speaker 4: trajectory and we're fascinated by the same kind of stories.
5:20
Speaker 4: And it was just this instant sort of feeling of like, oh, yeah,
5:24
Speaker 4: we're going to be making things together, and so it's
5:27
Speaker 4: just so exciting that now we're doing that with our
5:30
Speaker 4: own show.
5:30
Speaker 3: It's real.
5:31
Speaker 2: I love that.
5:31
Speaker 3: That's the best thing ever.
5:32
Speaker 1: Yeah.
5:32
Speaker 3: When I first started working with Hannah, you know, I
5:35
Speaker 3: was just an associate producer, and I was like, can
5:38
Speaker 3: I just start giving feedback on scripts? And so I
5:41
Speaker 3: was really comfortable with that working in script to TV,
5:44
Speaker 3: and so I was just like, here, Hannah, here's an
5:46
Speaker 3: alt for all your narration. Just take it or leave it.
5:49
Speaker 3: And eventually it was like, yeah, okay, I like that.
5:51
Speaker 3: And from there, you know, the show was a success,
5:55
Speaker 3: and we were like we want to make something else,
5:57
Speaker 3: but we don't have any time, and then all of
5:59
Speaker 3: a sudden we did.
6:00
Speaker 1: Hey, yeah, I love that you guys have this like
6:03
Speaker 1: perfect this combination of the like podcast like wanting to
6:07
Speaker 1: be in podcasting and then the pandemic kind of overlapping,
6:12
Speaker 1: and it's just this like really cool I don't know,
6:15
Speaker 1: like this like drive that you both had that just
6:19
Speaker 1: you made it happen, and it's just so impressive, Like
6:22
Speaker 1: it's so cool it is.
6:24
Speaker 2: I was going to ask, you got rejected the first interview,
6:28
Speaker 2: did you go back immediately like I would if I
6:31
Speaker 2: didn't get I remember interviewing at the warehouse when I
6:34
Speaker 2: was seventeen and I didn't get the job, and I'm
6:36
Speaker 2: still really upset about it.
6:38
Speaker 4: You know.
6:38
Speaker 3: I was like I wanted the job, and I remember
6:41
Speaker 3: being disappointed, but I also still had a job. At
6:44
Speaker 3: that point. I was working at a production company that
6:47
Speaker 3: was under a pod at Warner Brothers, and I wasn't
6:51
Speaker 3: in like, Okay, I need a job right now, which
6:53
Speaker 3: was helpful, but I also, you know, at that point,
6:58
Speaker 3: was like there are other podcasts jobs, and so I
7:00
Speaker 3: started trying and I didn't get those either, but it
7:03
Speaker 3: gave me hope, because at that point, podcasting was like,
7:06
Speaker 3: you know, there was this boom that happened because especially
7:09
Speaker 3: with the pandemic, being able to make things remotely was everything.
7:12
Speaker 3: You can't do that in TV, right, And so I
7:15
Speaker 3: just kept applying and actually someone from that company reached
7:19
Speaker 3: out and I interviewed again, and you know, desperation when
7:24
Speaker 3: I got the job.
7:24
Speaker 1: Yes, but she had experience by them because you did
7:27
Speaker 1: the really cool thing of just and I think this
7:29
Speaker 1: is we can totally relate to of just like, well,
7:31
Speaker 1: then I'm going to do it on my own. Yeah,
7:32
Speaker 1: And you did that and you know, prove your point
7:36
Speaker 1: that you're like this is where you should be.
7:38
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was like this moment for me of I
7:40
Speaker 3: had tried really hard to like make it as a
7:43
Speaker 3: TV writer, and I had been in a couple of
7:45
Speaker 3: comedy rooms and that was so exciting. I was a
7:47
Speaker 3: writer assistant that I got my first credit and I'm
7:49
Speaker 3: in the WGA and then nothing right, and that was
7:52
Speaker 3: just you know, I wanted more control over being able
7:56
Speaker 3: to like get a job if I was working really
7:58
Speaker 3: hard and getting better at it, and so podcasting gave
8:02
Speaker 3: me that. So, yeah, I found a missing person's case,
8:04
Speaker 3: I spent all my extra time working on it, and
8:08
Speaker 3: I just kind of taught myself how to like not
8:11
Speaker 3: be offended when someone hangs up on you, and that's
8:13
Speaker 3: the right questions and like find people's information online.
8:18
Speaker 1: You guys are so good at that. I'm so impressed
8:20
Speaker 1: and it like makes me sweat listening to you guys
8:23
Speaker 1: talk about like cold calling people. Yeah, but you both
8:26
Speaker 1: do it in a way that is like so kind.
8:30
Speaker 1: You don't spring things on people. You don't have that
8:32
Speaker 1: every day like predatory thing.
8:36
Speaker 4: That's some I'm trying to like get people. When I gotcha,
8:39
Speaker 4: we can get some information out of you. You know,
8:41
Speaker 4: we really want people to feel comfortable and open up
8:45
Speaker 4: to us. But it does mean you have to get
8:46
Speaker 4: a lot out in like twenty seconds before they're like,
8:49
Speaker 4: I think this might be a spam call and hang.
8:51
Speaker 1: Up on you.
8:52
Speaker 3: Yeah, my area code is like Maple Valley, Washington, and
8:55
Speaker 3: they're like, excuse me, who you live in Los Angeles?
8:58
Speaker 1: Click you think that that it's like Washington if.
9:02
Speaker 3: It's someone in Washington, but sometimes it is. Yeah, it's
9:06
Speaker 3: a I think it's just you have to get a
9:09
Speaker 3: little more comfortable with being hung up on people telling
9:13
Speaker 3: you not to call back and just accept that, like
9:15
Speaker 3: that's their prerogative and it's part of it. But most
9:19
Speaker 3: of the time people will hear you out whether or
9:22
Speaker 3: not they agree to interview. And that was something that
9:24
Speaker 3: was really exciting to me. I'm like, I get to
9:26
Speaker 3: just be nosy. Yeah, yeah, this is unbelievable. I love this.
9:31
Speaker 2: But then when those the interviews actually take place. In
9:33
Speaker 2: your first episode, in your interviewing Darune about her attack,
9:37
Speaker 2: there's this amazing part when I was listening to it
9:40
Speaker 2: for the first time where she is speaking for a
9:42
Speaker 2: while and getting people to really talk about these experiences.
9:46
Speaker 2: Is I'm sure a very delicate thing. She's talking and
9:50
Speaker 2: talking and then you ask one quick question. I was like,
9:54
Speaker 2: she's there, Hannah is there? So you're it's like you're
9:56
Speaker 2: not directing it, you're not interrupting or anything, like clearly
10:00
Speaker 2: you are leading that conversation in this way where you're
10:03
Speaker 2: allowing people to kind of open up to you. Is
10:05
Speaker 2: that How did you learn that skill? I don't know
10:08
Speaker 2: how I learned that skill. I think like maybe I'm
10:13
Speaker 2: not sure. I mean, sometimes our interviews go for a
10:15
Speaker 2: very long time, and sometimes I'm like, well, maybe if
10:18
Speaker 2: I were a better interview where I could really accomplish
10:21
Speaker 2: this in one hour instead of two and a half.
10:23
Speaker 2: But I just think like listening to people, being able
10:26
Speaker 2: to like, you know, just create that space and let
10:29
Speaker 2: people talk about an experience that they've been through that
10:33
Speaker 2: sometimes is like very traumatic and hard for them to
10:36
Speaker 2: talk about. But one thing we've also encountered a lot
10:40
Speaker 2: is that, you know, especially like a.
10:43
Speaker 4: Lot of times when we'd interview people who had been scammed,
10:46
Speaker 4: they would say things like, wow, you know, people in
10:50
Speaker 4: my life knew that this happened to me, but like,
10:52
Speaker 4: no one's really taking the time to sit down and
10:55
Speaker 4: just let me like tell the whole thing. And that
10:58
Speaker 4: feels good that we're able to let people do that
11:01
Speaker 4: or able to hear their story as well as share
11:03
Speaker 4: it with the world. And yeah, I mean that's a
11:06
Speaker 4: meaningful thing to me. So yeah, yeah, I don't know.
11:09
Speaker 3: I mean, before we do an interview, we you know,
11:12
Speaker 3: do whatever amount of research makes sense for that story
11:16
Speaker 3: and have questions prepared. And sometimes we ask two of
11:20
Speaker 3: these questions because they get answered on their own. But
11:23
Speaker 3: it's really like, what is something that we think is
11:26
Speaker 3: really interesting about this person's story, or they're the way
11:31
Speaker 3: that they reacted to something that happened to them, And
11:34
Speaker 3: so those kinds of questions are always top of mind
11:39
Speaker 3: when we're listening. But I think it's also we tell
11:41
Speaker 3: them before the interview, like we want this to be
11:43
Speaker 3: your story. We're gonna help guide you through telling it
11:47
Speaker 3: because you know, jumping around through time. Oh, I remember
11:50
Speaker 3: this thing that happened, And we want to be there
11:52
Speaker 3: to help them but and make them feel comfortable. But
11:56
Speaker 3: you know, we try really hard to just keep it
11:58
Speaker 3: as authentic as possible.
12:00
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you guys have some Really it's a hard job.
12:02
Speaker 1: Your first episode with Darune is so I mean emotional.
12:08
Speaker 1: It's this awful attack that she I mean fought back
12:12
Speaker 1: like a badass but experienced. Are like, tell us more
12:16
Speaker 1: about the season and in the episodes that you guys
12:18
Speaker 1: are going to be doing, is it just kind of
12:19
Speaker 1: more of these incredible cases.
12:22
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean we have you know, that's part of
12:25
Speaker 3: our drive for doing this kind of show is all
12:27
Speaker 3: manner of stories. And you know, we have people like
12:31
Speaker 3: Darune who you know, they're on a morning run and
12:35
Speaker 3: something awful happens to them and they're fighting for their life.
12:37
Speaker 3: And then there's the aftermath of that. We have people
12:39
Speaker 3: who are in a domestic violent situation with the spouse
12:43
Speaker 3: and the complications of that because you own a home
12:47
Speaker 3: with someone, you have children with someone, and how do
12:50
Speaker 3: you get out of that situation or how did this
12:53
Speaker 3: person get out of that situation? And then you know,
12:57
Speaker 3: we love a scam story whenever sam cult story.
13:01
Speaker 1: Cult stories.
13:01
Speaker 4: We have a wrongful conviction story coming up that is
13:05
Speaker 4: really powerful.
13:06
Speaker 3: Great identity theft.
13:08
Speaker 4: We're gonna try to cover a lot of different types
13:10
Speaker 4: of crimes. Really like unifying theme is the approach that
13:15
Speaker 4: we take to storytelling and just hearing firsthand from someone
13:20
Speaker 4: who whose life was altered because of a crime.
13:23
Speaker 2: It's cool, amazing if you were forced and you might
13:26
Speaker 2: be to do a different podcast of any.
13:29
Speaker 1: Genre popcorn aside.
13:31
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, we've got the popcorn one on the
13:33
Speaker 2: decks that's being that's in development now. But have you
13:36
Speaker 2: ever thought of doing just going completely out of the
13:39
Speaker 2: genre and doing anything different.
13:43
Speaker 3: I could talk about anything Bravo for sure, but no,
13:46
Speaker 3: I mean, I we have just spent so much time
13:50
Speaker 3: at the like over the last year and seven months
13:53
Speaker 3: working on true crime podcasts. It would feel so unusual. Yeah,
13:58
Speaker 3: I could talk about anything, Bravo, That's what I can.
14:02
Speaker 4: I could do a Survivor podcast. I love Survivor's good show.
14:06
Speaker 4: So television, maybe even though we watch a different television, different.
14:10
Speaker 3: Television, there's some slight overlap with within true crime. Really yeah,
14:15
Speaker 3: but I've been trying to get handed to watch the
14:17
Speaker 3: real halfsis for example, to no avail hasn't happened, I
14:21
Speaker 3: feel like good.
14:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, but the off record episode is a little
14:28
Speaker 2: bit different. It is kind of it is new for
14:30
Speaker 2: you guys, write something that is a little more like
14:32
Speaker 2: chatty and less fully produced, fully journalistic.
14:36
Speaker 1: Yeah, for you about that. For you guys listening, we
14:38
Speaker 1: have they have the episode full episode of the Knife,
14:41
Speaker 1: and then the off record episodes are kind of the
14:44
Speaker 1: it's almost like the kind of like.
14:46
Speaker 2: A mail bag episode or like a recap episode from
14:49
Speaker 2: the main episode.
14:50
Speaker 1: Like a more info.
14:51
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, we've sort of liked to think of
14:54
Speaker 4: them as it could be a lot of different things.
14:57
Speaker 4: We love the idea of mail bag answering listeners questions
15:00
Speaker 4: and being able to interact with people in that way.
15:03
Speaker 4: We also, you know, we are going to talk a
15:05
Speaker 4: little bit about the conversations that patient I have making
15:09
Speaker 4: true crime podcasts, Like, we have so many conversations to
15:13
Speaker 4: do with sometimes it's like cold calling people or ethical
15:17
Speaker 4: conversations about how we portray different stories. So we're gonna
15:20
Speaker 4: have some of those conversations like on mic, so that
15:23
Speaker 4: you know, listeners can be part of that.
15:24
Speaker 3: Great let's also tell true crime stories. Yeah, true crime
15:27
Speaker 3: story is also an opportunity for us to tell stories
15:30
Speaker 3: where we didn't get the right interview, but like, wow,
15:32
Speaker 3: this is a fascinating story and now I get to
15:34
Speaker 3: tell Hannah all about it. And maybe we've like had
15:38
Speaker 3: an on our list for a while, but no one
15:40
Speaker 3: had had time to do a deep dive until now.
15:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, you guys are like, I swear you feel like
15:44
Speaker 1: a parallel universe us. But you guys have a lot
15:47
Speaker 1: more homework. Do more homework. You guys are like really smart.
15:52
Speaker 3: It's chronic. At this point we're like, Okay, we need
15:55
Speaker 3: to make this one really quick and easy.
15:57
Speaker 4: Hours later, but I'm hoping like part of the off
16:02
Speaker 4: record is an attempt to get away from that, to
16:05
Speaker 4: have like more conversations with each other without having to
16:08
Speaker 4: do tons of homework.
16:09
Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll see, Well, I do think the audience will
16:12
Speaker 2: be so fascinated because that is the piece that you
16:15
Speaker 2: never get from like a limited series or the series
16:18
Speaker 2: that are more journalistic and a little more formal and
16:21
Speaker 2: need to be. But I just love that idea that
16:24
Speaker 2: you guys kind of like, Yep, we can do that,
16:26
Speaker 2: and we can do this, and then you can tell
16:28
Speaker 2: us what you thought.
16:29
Speaker 3: Of that, and then we're going to do another one.
16:31
Speaker 2: It's like a really fun kind of like backstage feel.
16:35
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, it's fun for us to talk about it
16:37
Speaker 3: because we love the job so much and also just
16:40
Speaker 3: this like hybrid of journalism and storytelling and we're not investigators,
16:46
Speaker 3: but we are like making a podcast and I think
16:49
Speaker 3: that's you know, maybe a lesser known skill set for sure.
16:53
Speaker 1: And you guys did you did it in such a
16:55
Speaker 1: cool way, as I said earlier, just the way you
16:57
Speaker 1: were like I want to be in podcasts, Like I
17:00
Speaker 1: know you guys were listening to Cereal when it came out,
17:02
Speaker 1: and it's like, oh, this is a thing we can do.
17:04
Speaker 1: And I feel like we had the exact same thought
17:07
Speaker 1: of let's just start it, let's do this, And I
17:10
Speaker 1: think that's.
17:10
Speaker 3: Really like it's inspiring.
17:12
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally. I think people were going to really love
17:14
Speaker 1: to hear about that.
17:19
Speaker 2: In your years of research and having to do those
17:21
Speaker 2: deep dives, and I know it's you know, depending on
17:24
Speaker 2: the subject, but is there anything you've ever uncovered learned
17:28
Speaker 2: a factoid, like something crazy.
17:30
Speaker 3: I just always picture you guys.
17:31
Speaker 2: Working at like late at night with one light and
17:34
Speaker 2: you're like, you know, on Lexus Nexus, like trying to
17:37
Speaker 2: figure stuff out, like do you can you just like
17:40
Speaker 2: recap one moment where you had like that kind of
17:43
Speaker 2: journalistic Nancy Drew discovery or anything.
17:48
Speaker 3: There have definitely been things said on preliminary calls where
17:53
Speaker 3: we're just getting some background information where we're like, we
17:56
Speaker 3: have to level with them. We're not going to touch that,
17:59
Speaker 3: you know, like that not going to come up, and
18:01
Speaker 3: if you if it comes up in an interview, we're
18:03
Speaker 3: not gonna it's not going to make the episode. Whether
18:06
Speaker 3: that's maybe you know, something that we don't agree with
18:10
Speaker 3: value system wise, or accusations. You know, people have very
18:14
Speaker 3: different experiences within a crime story and we'll really get
18:19
Speaker 3: fired up about it and so you know, figuring out
18:22
Speaker 3: how to make sure that person feels heard, but also
18:26
Speaker 3: we want to do it right yeah, yeah, yeah.
18:30
Speaker 4: I mean there's the research, and then also there's learning
18:34
Speaker 4: things from conversations with people, just because like you know,
18:38
Speaker 4: there's the headline and then there's an article, and then
18:42
Speaker 4: maybe there's a longer form article if you're lucky, and
18:46
Speaker 4: then you know, I'm like, Okay, where's the documentary or
18:48
Speaker 4: where's the book or where you know, and then you
18:51
Speaker 4: hit like a a stop where there's just nothing more.
18:54
Speaker 1: Like a Reddit thread. Maybe yeah, maybe there's.
18:56
Speaker 4: A Reddit thread, and you know, I think like I've
19:00
Speaker 4: always just been like, what's what what else? Like I
19:02
Speaker 4: just have more questions. And so then through you know,
19:05
Speaker 4: finding someone who was like, oh yeah that was you know,
19:08
Speaker 4: you know, yeah I was there or whatever, and I
19:10
Speaker 4: knew that person, and then oh great, will you talk
19:12
Speaker 4: to me? And then you know, having a two hour
19:14
Speaker 4: long conversation with that person. There's so much that will
19:16
Speaker 4: come out. Like I'm thinking about like Season three of
19:19
Speaker 4: the opportunities we did with the Cat Cult and.
19:23
Speaker 3: Which I found that story by googling quote cult plus
19:29
Speaker 3: sign cat quote end quote, and I'm like, I wonder
19:32
Speaker 3: it was out there just for cares. There was one
19:35
Speaker 3: little article came up and I was like, I don't
19:38
Speaker 3: know if I should pitch this to Hannah. Is this
19:40
Speaker 3: too much? She's like, I love it.
19:43
Speaker 1: So this is the exact kind of story I want
19:45
Speaker 1: to tell you. Yeah.
19:46
Speaker 3: Yeah.
19:47
Speaker 4: And then when we had a conversation with Mary, who
19:51
Speaker 4: is married to this man who used to be married
19:53
Speaker 4: to the cult leader. During the interview, she revealed to
19:57
Speaker 4: us that there was an attempted murder involved with the
20:00
Speaker 4: story where she had befriended this guy years later who
20:04
Speaker 4: was her you know, assassin, essentially, that the cult leader
20:08
Speaker 4: had tried to convince him to kill her and her
20:11
Speaker 4: husband and he didn't, and then years later they became friends.
20:14
Speaker 4: So that was a moment where this whole other aspect
20:16
Speaker 4: of the story opened up and we're like, wait a minute,
20:19
Speaker 4: what Like there's also like, you know, a potential attempted
20:23
Speaker 4: murder here, So there's you know, that was a big moment,
20:26
Speaker 4: but there's a lot of moments that happened like that.
20:28
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's amazing.
20:29
Speaker 1: How has it been like in your line of work,
20:33
Speaker 1: How is law enforcement communication going for you? Guys? It
20:37
Speaker 1: seems like that would be a tough one.
20:39
Speaker 3: It is, and it's not. It's like, if there's a
20:42
Speaker 3: case where you know, it's case closed, someone's been convicted, sentenced.
20:48
Speaker 3: Usually there's law enforcement who will happily talk about it
20:53
Speaker 3: because it's maybe something to consider a career accomplishment, and
20:56
Speaker 3: maybe it is. But if the case is still open,
20:59
Speaker 3: it can be a lot more difficult. And you know,
21:02
Speaker 3: when we do those interviews, they can still be very
21:05
Speaker 3: useful for information, but you're not going to get someone
21:08
Speaker 3: to like reflect or give you anything beyond you know,
21:12
Speaker 3: very like by the book answer, And that can be challenging,
21:16
Speaker 3: but I would say overall pretty good.
21:19
Speaker 1: I do want to know more about the interviews you
21:22
Speaker 1: do with people involved in the case. The first off
21:24
Speaker 1: record episode is so incredible about these missing teens and
21:30
Speaker 1: you got friends to talk, you got family to talk. Yeah,
21:33
Speaker 1: I mean that's like and you went you went there
21:35
Speaker 1: in person too. It's like that just has to change everything.
21:38
Speaker 3: It did. It changed everything, you know. I went to
21:41
Speaker 3: the DA's office and you know, sat down with an
21:44
Speaker 3: investigator who had previously been a detective on the case
21:48
Speaker 3: when he was earlier in his career. It was incredible.
21:51
Speaker 3: I got to I fell in love with it because
21:54
Speaker 3: I met so many people I would have never met.
21:56
Speaker 3: And you know, I got immersed in the story and
22:00
Speaker 3: really got to understand how current it all was for
22:05
Speaker 3: them still. You know, their friends had gone missing, you know,
22:10
Speaker 3: twenty years earlier, and they're talking about these memories that
22:13
Speaker 3: are so vivid for them and also unpacking it with
22:18
Speaker 3: me for really the first time for a lot of them,
22:21
Speaker 3: because it was a small town and the same theories
22:24
Speaker 3: had circulated, and I just thought, like, this is such
22:28
Speaker 3: a privilege that these people are taking this complete stranger
22:31
Speaker 3: into their home. I had a little Olympus recording thing
22:35
Speaker 3: that I got her like twenty bucks, and I'm you know,
22:39
Speaker 3: they're just talking to me, and they didn't care that
22:42
Speaker 3: I had no previous podcasting experience. They only cared that
22:46
Speaker 3: someone wanted to hear their story. And that really hit
22:50
Speaker 3: home and was like, I'm so motivated to do this now.
22:53
Speaker 3: And then you know, I got I got my job
22:56
Speaker 3: on the Opportunitists got much busier. Wasn't really sure how
23:00
Speaker 3: to end the story. I was so new to it.
23:02
Speaker 4: And you recorded like multiple episodes and put them together. Yeah,
23:05
Speaker 4: I don't remember how many, but I'm one of the
23:07
Speaker 4: few people that have the privilege of listening to it,
23:09
Speaker 4: and it was really good.
23:10
Speaker 1: Amazing, but the.
23:11
Speaker 4: Case was still unsolved, and you didn't you weren't sure
23:13
Speaker 4: how to end it.
23:14
Speaker 3: I wasn't sure how to end it. And I also
23:17
Speaker 3: felt conflicted about some of the tape because you know,
23:20
Speaker 3: there were two missing teens, Jeremy Bechdel and Aaron Foster,
23:23
Speaker 3: and Jeremy's family was very open with me. Aaron's family
23:27
Speaker 3: was much less, and I started feeling conflicted about putting
23:31
Speaker 3: so much out there without their support, and that was
23:34
Speaker 3: something I was thinking a lot about. I didn't have
23:36
Speaker 3: the confidence in my storytelling ability that I have after
23:40
Speaker 3: having done it now, but it was just so interesting
23:45
Speaker 3: to like, I'm going to get case file access to
23:48
Speaker 3: a case file, I'm going to get to go ask
23:49
Speaker 3: these people questions. And you know, I didn't. I didn't
23:54
Speaker 3: break news with the story, but I was able to
23:56
Speaker 3: sort of piece together enough to be like, I know
23:59
Speaker 3: that they left that party, and I know that after
24:02
Speaker 3: that party they went to Aaron's house, and I had
24:05
Speaker 3: only ever heard or read that they had left that
24:08
Speaker 3: party and never been seen again, and that was enough
24:10
Speaker 3: for me to be like, sometimes it just takes like
24:14
Speaker 3: not a professional, but like fresh eyes or energy into
24:17
Speaker 3: doing something and I didn't solve that case. They did,
24:20
Speaker 3: and they with the help of this YouTube diver exploring
24:26
Speaker 3: the nug spoiler spoiler spoiler.
24:28
Speaker 2: Yeah.
24:29
Speaker 3: But it was so amazing because I had built so
24:32
Speaker 3: many relationships in that town that when as they're literally
24:37
Speaker 3: pulling the car up from the river, people are calling
24:39
Speaker 3: me yeah, and I was like, oh my gosh. And
24:42
Speaker 3: so then I felt this way of like, well, I
24:45
Speaker 3: now have all of these relationships with Jeremy's family members.
24:48
Speaker 3: I need to call them and like, did you inform them?
24:52
Speaker 3: One of them? I informed him because he had been
24:55
Speaker 3: calling me and we had been playing phone tag. And
24:57
Speaker 3: then it felt strange and I just and I don't
25:00
Speaker 3: have any details. I've just heard that Aaron's car was
25:04
Speaker 3: found in the river and you need to call sheriff
25:07
Speaker 3: Page and incredible. Yeah, it was, you know, I didn't
25:11
Speaker 3: want to make those phone calls, certainly, but when you're
25:13
Speaker 3: talking to people every day for a long time, they're
25:17
Speaker 3: wanting to talk about it with you. And it was
25:21
Speaker 3: just a great experience. And also, I think with missing
25:24
Speaker 3: persons cases, for me, there's that hope and even though
25:28
Speaker 3: you know, after twenty years, I think hope dwindles, but
25:31
Speaker 3: I really liked that aspect of it, and that was
25:34
Speaker 3: just it was exciting.
25:36
Speaker 1: So well as a cold case junkie, I really was
25:40
Speaker 1: just that story was incredible well.
25:42
Speaker 2: And also it's that's such a good point that like
25:44
Speaker 2: when something happens to people a tramline all of a sudden,
25:48
Speaker 2: just your child is gone. You're you know, they're just
25:51
Speaker 2: there's no explanation and people help you for a little
25:54
Speaker 2: while and then just nothing. The idea that that you
25:58
Speaker 2: were left to process that or just or not because
26:01
Speaker 2: you don't get any answers. It's not the same as
26:04
Speaker 2: like there's a death in the family. It's just it's
26:07
Speaker 2: a total void, and like you know, you describing it
26:10
Speaker 2: that way, it's like it must be incredibly powerful to
26:13
Speaker 2: have someone come and say I care about what this
26:15
Speaker 2: is and I want to help in some way I do.
26:19
Speaker 2: That is what I love about the true crime community
26:21
Speaker 2: is like there are so many sincere, sincerely caring like
26:26
Speaker 2: professionals and non professionals that are like what can I do?
26:29
Speaker 2: What could I look up online? Like what could I research?
26:32
Speaker 3: Yeah, And it also is very eye opening in the
26:35
Speaker 3: way of like it's easy to say, oh, you know,
26:38
Speaker 3: why didn't the why didn't local law enforcement do more?
26:42
Speaker 3: Obviously they didn't run away to Florida. They they left
26:45
Speaker 3: a paycheck behind, like all of these like quote unquote
26:48
Speaker 3: like obvious things that had happened or not happened and blame.
26:53
Speaker 3: But when you talk to all of these different people,
26:55
Speaker 3: it's like, you know, well, wait a minute, that that
26:58
Speaker 3: office had one computer at the time, so that these
27:00
Speaker 3: notes are handwritten and then typed out, And how many
27:03
Speaker 3: notes are you taking if you're writing something by hand totally?
27:05
Speaker 3: And what does this game of telephone really look like
27:09
Speaker 3: even if you're trying your best? What was the training
27:11
Speaker 3: at the time. It wasn't. So then it was like, okay,
27:14
Speaker 3: I have to take a step back because it's not
27:17
Speaker 3: one person's fault. It wasn't like there were a lot
27:20
Speaker 3: of things that should have gone differently and didn't. But
27:24
Speaker 3: it made me take a step back and think about
27:26
Speaker 3: how little you really get from reading an article, and
27:29
Speaker 3: I just wanted to know more.
27:31
Speaker 2: Do you have a story like that of something that's
27:33
Speaker 2: happened where you're just getting involved kind of turned turned
27:37
Speaker 2: things a little bit. That's like that maybe journalistic satisfaction
27:41
Speaker 2: that you get to have sometimes I don't.
27:43
Speaker 4: Know if I have a story quite like that where
27:45
Speaker 4: that where it gets solved a missing person's case. I
27:49
Speaker 4: mean that's pretty incredible.
27:50
Speaker 3: Yeah, but certainly, like you know, we've talked to people
27:53
Speaker 3: that have reached out to Hannah from just knowing her
27:57
Speaker 3: from the Opportunist and said, well, what about my right?
28:00
Speaker 3: Can you look into this? And you know, I think
28:02
Speaker 3: that is a cool place to be, like someone thinks
28:06
Speaker 3: that I care enough to look into this and like
28:09
Speaker 3: actually do some research. And I think that that's also
28:12
Speaker 3: a really like great thing about being able to connect
28:16
Speaker 3: with listeners.
28:17
Speaker 4: M Yeah, absolutely, And I mean, like you know, I've
28:21
Speaker 4: never yeah, I've never solved a case or anything like that.
28:25
Speaker 4: That's season two, Yeah, that's coming. But you know, just
28:30
Speaker 4: being able to bring it to like people's attention, to
28:33
Speaker 4: continue to keep attention on these things as we were
28:36
Speaker 4: just talking about, I think means a lot and you
28:39
Speaker 4: never know what that can do. It's like, you know,
28:42
Speaker 4: Paysha didn't solve this case, but the fact that there
28:46
Speaker 4: was so much attention on it, I don't know, it
28:48
Speaker 4: keeps it fresh in people's minds and you just never
28:50
Speaker 4: know like what that could lead to. So that's what
28:53
Speaker 4: I usually tell people when they're like, I have this,
28:55
Speaker 4: you know, case, and well, I'm not able to solve it.
28:58
Speaker 4: I'm not an investigator, but we can certainly tell that
29:01
Speaker 4: story and then hopefully that will help you connect to
29:05
Speaker 4: other people or resources to you know, hopefully make some
29:09
Speaker 4: leeway there.
29:09
Speaker 1: Yeah, you guys have that thing that I think that
29:17
Speaker 1: people who are into true crime, like we are murderinas,
29:20
Speaker 1: which is this like curiosity about the way humans work
29:25
Speaker 1: and the way these decisions with people make effects like
29:29
Speaker 1: everyone's life around them. And it can hear that in
29:32
Speaker 1: the podcast, This curiosity that you guys have that's so
29:36
Speaker 1: so pure, and I totally identify with it totally.
29:40
Speaker 4: I mean, I think that that so many people who
29:42
Speaker 4: love true crime feel that way, right, and it makes
29:44
Speaker 4: me think of actually this episode of a podcast that
29:49
Speaker 4: you sent me years ago, it's a criminal episode. We
29:52
Speaker 4: know you all love criminals as well.
29:54
Speaker 3: Yeah, so good.
29:56
Speaker 4: And she was interviewing Eryl Morris, you know, he was
29:59
Speaker 4: talking about crime stories and always just stuck with me.
30:02
Speaker 4: He talked about like the heart of crime stories is
30:06
Speaker 4: just humanity, you know, it's and I just agree with
30:10
Speaker 4: that so wholeheartedly. You know, in all of these stories.
30:14
Speaker 4: Of course there is some incident, some dramatic incident, right,
30:18
Speaker 4: but like within that there are stories of people surviving
30:23
Speaker 4: or people seeking justice and the complications of what that
30:26
Speaker 4: looks like what does that even mean, and how people
30:31
Speaker 4: hurt each other and how people try to heal and
30:33
Speaker 4: what that does to an individual person and to a community.
30:36
Speaker 4: I mean, it is just humanity. It's like how we
30:39
Speaker 4: all live together, and that is just endlessly compelling.
30:43
Speaker 2: Yeah, it makes me think of the episode and the Opportunists,
30:47
Speaker 2: and look, the Opportunist was great, congratulations, your new podcast
30:51
Speaker 2: is amazing. But you know, I just have the memory
30:57
Speaker 2: of you talking about the people who invested in the
31:00
Speaker 2: guys who were claiming that they were going to go
31:02
Speaker 2: find that this sunken treasure boat. And so it's that
31:07
Speaker 2: kind of story where it's like, this is not a murder,
31:09
Speaker 2: this is not you know, one of those kind of stories.
31:11
Speaker 2: It's it's a scam story that as it went, it
31:15
Speaker 2: just became more and more heartbreaking as I listened to it.
31:18
Speaker 2: Of like these people who it's like it's easy to
31:20
Speaker 2: go like, oh, well you made a mistake or that
31:22
Speaker 2: was a dumb investment, and it's like these guys went
31:25
Speaker 2: through and just methodically drained the bank accounts of retirees
31:30
Speaker 2: and like just destroyed these families. And that was just
31:34
Speaker 2: kind of like, well, too bad for you. And I'm
31:36
Speaker 2: sure that there are people who like when if they
31:39
Speaker 2: go through an experience like that, being able to hear
31:42
Speaker 2: somebody else, be able to say it, and have you know,
31:44
Speaker 2: the validity, like be able to give it the gravitas
31:47
Speaker 2: it deserves of like this is horrible. It should not
31:50
Speaker 2: be happening. We should have systems set up or how
31:52
Speaker 2: do you what are the next steps you take when
31:54
Speaker 2: someone doesn't just you know, rip you off, but like
31:57
Speaker 2: you lose all your money and.
32:00
Speaker 3: Think it's gonna be you. Like ever, you know, we've
32:03
Speaker 3: probably never interviewed someone and been like, oh I could
32:06
Speaker 3: see how that happened to them.
32:08
Speaker 4: It's like, no, that could be all of us, Like yeah, no,
32:10
Speaker 4: one is like well I kind of expected that to.
32:12
Speaker 1: Happen, right, So.
32:15
Speaker 3: You never think it's going to be you. And I
32:17
Speaker 3: think there's also this like self exploration that happens where
32:22
Speaker 3: you're like when you when that feeling creeps in like
32:25
Speaker 3: something's not right here, This other part of you is
32:28
Speaker 3: in survival mode being like everything's fine, I'm sure it's okay,
32:32
Speaker 3: it's all gonna come together, and like those two voices
32:36
Speaker 3: are battling it out in your head until there's this
32:39
Speaker 3: point of no return. And you know that's not someone
32:43
Speaker 3: being naive all the time. That's just like life. You
32:46
Speaker 3: have to trust people sometimes and you know, maybe a
32:50
Speaker 3: gold bar at the bottom of the ocean sounds far fetched,
32:53
Speaker 3: but it's not like this random person knocked on someone's
32:57
Speaker 3: door and said, I know where to find you know,
33:00
Speaker 3: somen treasure boat. It's like, this is a trusted person
33:03
Speaker 3: in the community, supported by another trusted person in the community,
33:06
Speaker 3: and that goes a long way.
33:08
Speaker 1: For people, which makes it all the more evil. Yeah.
33:11
Speaker 3: Oh, that was a tough one. That was tough.
33:13
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's very satisfying that we get to host a
33:16
Speaker 2: podcast where there's the potential, where obviously there's the relation
33:20
Speaker 2: of there's a crime, and then somebody gets to tell
33:24
Speaker 2: their story, be a survivor, be you know, get their
33:27
Speaker 2: voice out there. But then that's someone listening at home
33:31
Speaker 2: who might not have any of that support or any
33:34
Speaker 2: of that kind of platform gets to relate or have
33:37
Speaker 2: somewhere to go or a next steps kind of plan.
33:40
Speaker 3: Yeah, and just feel seen like, Wow, a version of
33:43
Speaker 3: that happened to me, And here's someone talking about it
33:46
Speaker 3: in a way that's not pejorative or demeaning. It's just
33:49
Speaker 3: like that could be like I'm not, you know, the
33:53
Speaker 3: only person this has ever happened to. Something's not wrong
33:56
Speaker 3: with me. Somewhere did something wrong to me? Yeah, and
34:00
Speaker 3: know that like goes back to even even when I was,
34:03
Speaker 3: you know, researching that case in Tennessee. It's like this,
34:05
Speaker 3: this idea that someone feels heard becomes really important in
34:11
Speaker 3: the work that we're doing. And is I think something
34:14
Speaker 3: we don't want to lose in our storytelling.
34:16
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think that's impossible forget you guys to lose.
34:19
Speaker 1: I think that's just second nature for you. It's so cool.
34:22
Speaker 3: It's definitely like the most fun I've ever had. It's great.
34:26
Speaker 3: It's exactly what I want to be doing. Yeah, I
34:29
Speaker 3: love it. It's so exciting.
34:30
Speaker 2: It's so I feel like people are going to really
34:33
Speaker 2: really love this podcast. I just we've everyone that works
34:35
Speaker 2: here has listened to it. It's just like it's a hit.
34:38
Speaker 1: It's a hit. It's just so great. Yeah, great jo
34:40
Speaker 1: so much.
34:41
Speaker 3: We're so excited to be here.
34:42
Speaker 4: And you know, you all have supported us so much
34:45
Speaker 4: to you know, shouting out the show back you know
34:47
Speaker 4: when we were doing it and always being like just
34:50
Speaker 4: cheering us on, and that we always saw that and
34:53
Speaker 4: always meant a lot to us. And so you know,
34:55
Speaker 4: it just feels like a really great place for us
34:58
Speaker 4: to be. It just feels right, and so are really
35:00
Speaker 4: happy to be here.
35:01
Speaker 2: Does it feel exactly right?
35:05
Speaker 1: Together? Okay, then you should just sign your life away
35:09
Speaker 1: right here.
35:09
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, Yay, honestly, And I mean, like you know,
35:14
Speaker 2: this is business, but also we adore you guys.
35:17
Speaker 3: We love the work you do.
35:18
Speaker 2: We're so proud of the show that you've made and
35:21
Speaker 2: the fact that we get to put it on our network.
35:23
Speaker 3: So thank you so much, thanks for being thank you. Yeah,
35:26
Speaker 3: thank you so much. Yeah, that's it's the best feeling ever.
35:29
Speaker 2: Yeah.
35:30
Speaker 1: So The Knife launches on March twenty seventh, and new
35:33
Speaker 1: episodes are up every Thursday. Please listen and don't forget
35:36
Speaker 1: to go and follow, rate, review, subscribe, support, show up
35:41
Speaker 1: and on Instagram and Blue Sky.
35:44
Speaker 2: You can find them at The Knife Podcast.
35:46
Speaker 1: Thanks you guys, Thank you guys so much, Thank you
35:48
Speaker 1: so much.
35:49
Speaker 3: For having us. We're so excited.
35:50
Speaker 1: Yay, okay, goodbyeye Elvis, do you want to cookie?
36:01
Speaker 2: This has been an exactly right production.
36:03
Speaker 1: Our senior producer is Alejandra Keck.
36:05
Speaker 2: Our managing producers Hannah Kyle Creighton.
36:08
Speaker 1: Our editor is Aristotle Oscevedo.
36:10
Speaker 2: This episode was mixed by Leona Scualace.
36:13
Speaker 1: Our researchers are Maren mcclashan and Ali Elkin.
36:16
Speaker 2: Email your hometowns to My Favorite Murder at gmail dot com.
36:19
Speaker 1: Follow the show on Instagram and Facebook at my Favorite Murder.
36:22
Speaker 1: Bye Bye,