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Is It Your Intuition or Just the Noise? · Imagine The Good

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: You're chasting your next goal, but you can't remember the last time you felt truly present or fulfilled.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: You're surrounded by people yet somehow still feel alone.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: You've built the success you were told to go after, but you quietly wonder, is this all there really is?
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: Well, then this podcast is for you.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: Imagine the good.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: So here are your hosts, Jason and Robin.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: Hello, I'm Robin Maher.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm Jason Dorland.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Imagine the Good, Episode 7.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: Today we're going to be talking about discernment.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: Especially discernment in a world that's calling for attention in a multitude of ways, whether it's the news, our jobs, our responsibilities, our families, our fears, our hopes.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: This time of the economy is referred to as the attention economy, and there are lots of pulls.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: How do we decide what to give our time, energy, and attention to?
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: That's what we're talking about today.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_03: And I mean, it's a bit weird in that we're contributing to that ocean of information.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, but fair enough, I guess uh we're hopefully providing an opportunity for people to reflect, and it's not just uh background noise or or what have you, but something for someone to actually dig into.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_03: But what I find interesting about discernment, or maybe interesting is even the right word, maybe it's uh funny, ironic, is that when we come up with these topics, the theme that we're going to explore in each in each session, invariably you're the one leading the charge on these, and and I'm the one that either needs convincing or or not.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_03: And with this one, uh I remember you said discernment.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_03: I did and I said, Well, what the hell is discernment?
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_03: And how on earth are we going to talk for 45 minutes about discernment, making decisions, like what's the big freaking deal?
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_03: And and I mean, that is that is a perfect example of what has got me into trouble for an entire lifetime of not utilizing discernment, not taking it the time to slow down, uh, get quiet, if you will, and and really reflect on the decision uh or the way forward that's in front of me.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_03: And that and that's a perfect example of a an impulsive reply.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_03: Discernment sounds like something I've never even said before, forget about, thought about, and and and you know, obviously came around and realized don't be such an idiot.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_03: And here we are talking about discernment.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: And to your earlier point as well, the key is it's not about just taking in more information.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: Again, it's uh learning what to trust, uh, what to filter, and what to return to, both within ourselves and the the world around us.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I I've been reflecting on it uh a lot, especially back when uh I invited you to consider this for a topic.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I just feel like it has profound implications for how we live.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: And you've heard me speak before to feeling like uh sometimes I feel like I have mental bulimia in terms of taking in too much information.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: I I call myself Curious Georgia.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: I have a love of learning and am passionate about things and putting the brakes on we can't take it all in, right?
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: We can't do it all.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: So um that discernment process feels like it's very significant.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm grateful for the discernment I've had with some key big decisions and on a day-to-day basis.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: There's lots of pruning that I can do on that journey to be nourished by what I take in and have it aligned with how I most want to live and my priorities.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_03: And I can vouch for that, not that this is uh ratting on you, but um yeah, I mean, how many times have you gone to the library and come home with 10, 15 books and you busily go firing through them in the day or two before they have to go back?
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_03: Because you know, and you're you constantly listen, well, not constantly, but you listen to a lot of podcasts, you listen to a lot of information, and and I would agree you are a curious Georgia.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_03: I love that term, nice.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_03: And uh, and I'm the beneficiary, if I'm gonna be honest, because you're a wealth of knowledge, and I appreciate that.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_03: And but yeah, it's sort of when does when when is enough enough?
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_03: Because at some point it does become an interference.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, it's it's uh balancing and pruning uh the love of understanding and curiosity, uh, with the wisdom to know uh what fits best with the the life we all aspire to live.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: For sure.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: And in mine in particular, that that space.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_03: Well, you know, what's interesting about my uh my my willingness to come to the to the topic was was the more I did some digging into it, the more I thought, wow, Jace, man, like this is frickin' important.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_03: And are you kidding me?
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, this needs to be a topic.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_03: Um, what I love here when I found what I found presence.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_03: So presence was last week, and um presence creates the space to notice what is happening, discernment helps us decide what deserves our attention.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_03: I love the word deserves, what is true and how we want to respond.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_03: Presence allows us to hear, discernment helps us know what to listen to.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_03: Like you can't hear that or read it and not go, ooh, okay, I get that.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_03: That's so that's something I gotta pay attention to, especially the part discern discernment helps us know what to listen to.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_03: You know, to your point, to your opening statement of how much stuff is in the is swimming in the pool that with all of us, and and we have to, you know, to stay in the water analogy, we have to fish it out and and and decide, okay, what am I going to give my attention to?
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_03: What is truthful?
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_03: What is noise?
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_03: What's a distraction?
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_03: What's going to support me, help me grow, move me forward?
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, that's a that's a full-time job.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_03: And and I don't think uh maybe I've just been doing it, but I don't think I've ever been aware or made to be aware of my own discernment.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_03: And maybe that's why I can I've had such a such a history of crappy discernment, is because I see it as an impulse.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, just make a decision, let's go.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_03: And and yeah, maybe I needed to, well, not maybe, that's uh I'm cutting myself slack there that that doesn't need to be cut.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_03: I needed to slow down and and weigh options and get quiet and really think things through.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_03: And and invariably the times in my life when I didn't do that and I made harsh, quick, rash decisions uh in the name of being efficient and getting poop done, you know, invariably those decisions have come back to bite me in the ass.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: So you're shining a light on the the element of our state.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: But before we go into that, I just want to say uh, you know, the comment what deserves our attention or what's worthy of our attention.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: I would add that sometimes there's so many things that are worthy and deserving our attention, and we still need to discern what's for our eyes and our hands to do.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so there are lots of things.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's just in a sea of plenty that we still need to decide.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_01: And one of those relates to uh looking at my my own uh path in discernment as a younger person, the element of boundaries and uh responding to what's in front of me uh because I don't want to disappoint people, versus um making space to get clear and then not just responding to my environment, but being clear about what my priorities are and what what is mine to do.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the mantras for me that helps with that is I'm not the only vortex through which goodness can flow.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: So uh it feels good to help and support others.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: And when there's an inner tension, just pausing enough to reflect on that um can help with um with the sense that um we want to make sure we're choosing for the right reasons aligned with our our our values, not for constraints that muddy our our heart and minds about what we say yes to and and what we take in.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, there's I mean lots to lots to process in that.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_03: And and I think one of the bits that comes up for me around, especially around the notion of uh choosing what to listen to.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_03: I think when you think about social media, the news, um just those two alone, okay.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_03: One of the bits that I would invite listeners, and I certainly invite myself to do, is to recognize the role that motivated reasoning plays in that discernment.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_03: So motivated reasoning, sort of a layman expression of that, because those ones work best for me, is kind of like when your brain, if your brain were to hire a lawyer to uh find information that backs up the beliefs you already have.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_03: So instead of going to find information to determine what your belief is, we get we do it the other way around.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_03: So we establish a belief based on social norms, social pressure, friend groups, family groups wanting to fit in.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_03: And then that lawyer goes out and finds stories, events, news, information that makes us go, see, I'm right.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_03: And the way I feel about this is correct.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_03: And that's and that's the human, that's part of the human journey.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_03: So there's no judgment in that.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_03: I do it, you do it, we all do that.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_03: I think the invitation here is to recognize when we're doing that, because motivated reasoning alone is almost the antithesis of discernment, because it can be such a disruptor and it can sway decision-making so powerfully.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I mean, goodness, we saw it during COVID, we see it with politics, the idea of belonging, the desire to fit in through what we believe, and not wanting to push back against that narrative because we want to be included, we want to be, yeah, we don't want to be ostracized.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_03: But sometimes in the process of determining what it is we want to listen to, finding the truth, uh it can inform the discernment better, obviously better, than than relying on motivated reasoning.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_03: Does any of that am I you want to push back against some of that?
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: Or well, uh what I hear you saying with that is just how open are our minds and our hearts, and and so relating back to your earlier comment about slowing down.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: And so um when we connect with our intention behind what we're taking in, uh it's not just too um too much information that we can take in in a time of uh incoming, just the deluge of information we have access to, it's also our ability to digest that and metabolize it.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: So again, with the the volume of information that comes at us, how do we slow down to make sense of it?
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: And and what is our intention in what we take in?
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: So if we have a habit of watching the daily news, being more discerning about how am I allowing that information to land on my heart and mind and and how does it shape the world that I live in?
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: And um, is it helpful at clarifying, or is there another way rather than, for example, watching um violent images of war, how can I make sense of geopolitical issues in a way that um has meaning?
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: Uh for example, I I care about those issues.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: I think of, was it last year?
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um I read uh Chris Hedge's The Greatest Evil is war.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's quite a history lesson of um in interests that are being served behind the war stories.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: And so um looking at the violent images of what we can do to one another, I don't find particularly helpful.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: But understanding the bigger processes and what I can do as a citizen to advocate for um peaceful resolution of conflicts in ways that serve our collective interests.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: So um the motivated reasoning that you talked about can can be an automatic response.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: And how can we sometimes automatic responses are practical and useful, and are there ways to slow down when we care about a topic, to um ask where is this information coming from?
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: Who benefits from this orientation?
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: How does it serve all the people that it impacts?
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: So those things are important considerations.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: And um it relates, you know, uh one coming back to again, uh one of the reasons that I was interested in talking about discernment is my my core one core area of growth is wanting to um to prune what I take in so that I can metabolize, digest it, and then participate in a dialogue that serves other people uh and invites reflection and diverse views.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: And having nuance in how we understand things becomes really important.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's when there's a lack of nuance.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: Often the the truth is in the details of something, and that takes time.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: So there's only so many things that we can do deeper dives in.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and and what are those issues that matter to how we live and how we move forward together in ways that elevates life for all.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so that for me also leads back to the central question of when I'm discerning what are my priorities, what matters most in how I make these decisions.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: And it also relates to state because uh the state we're in has a huge impact in how we take that information in, what it means to us, and how we see the world.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: So attending to state when we're making important decisions becomes important.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: But it takes me back to it's a bigger question of how we set up the architecture of our days so that we're primed to be in an open receptive state that we're choosing in alignment with our values, that they serve uh what we aspire to be, and that that it's contextualized as well.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: For me, one of those elements relates to um in McGillcross work, you know, The Master and His Emissary and The Matter with Things in terms of just a light read.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, just a light read.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: They're tunes, and I've mentioned them before, but they're they're foundational to my learning and understanding and my felt sense because as a very kinesthetic person, with athletics being an embodiment practice of how we're aware of of our bodies and how we relate to the world around us.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: When we're in um a right brain orientation and paying attention in that way to the world, that's an embodied and connected state.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: And the valuing and the discernment is profoundly different than in if if I'm in an analytical state.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: And so we want to attend to the world in a holistic way, both left-right, whole brain.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: But if we go from uh a right holistic, get the whole picture orientation, then analyze, map out the details of that, and then return to okay, what's the integrated picture of that in how we discern and understand?
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um that's a process that considers our priorities, our values, our practical steps, and then the actions that can materialize what we want to support.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and I think, well, you know, you didn't tell me that this was a uh teach what we need to learn component as well.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_03: So thanks for owning that one.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but hey, I'm in the same boat.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_03: Like if uh yeah, I need to uh adapt an ability or have an ability to to be to be aware of when things are going amok.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_03: And I think having that awareness, especially in the taking in information piece, to run through the filters, you know, is this a is this true?
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_03: Is there an agenda?
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_03: Um, is this going to fill me up or make me feel crap?
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_03: And and I think there's a time and a place for entertainment and for movies and types of movies and and all that sort of stuff, but but at the end of the day, all of that input affects the output.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_03: And I mean, how can it not?
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_03: And so that's what I find now is is what I'm trying to pay more attention to, is is what I'm taking in showing up in what I'm giving out.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_03: And I can't, there's no way I could make an argument that it's not.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_03: And so I think if there's a reason to change, if there's something in it for me, it's it's knowing that that who I'm being with friends, with friends, with family, with you, with the pups.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_03: Um it starts with, it can start with the information that I'm taking in, the stimuli that I'm letting in.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_03: And and I've become more aware of that.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I don't know, last five, ten years, that it's not just stuff in and then it it sort of filters and goes away.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_03: It comes in and it sits, and maybe it sits heavier than it used to, I'm not sure.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_03: But it it does come in and and rattle around for much longer than it used to.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_03: I can't see things the way I used to, and just go, yeah, whatever.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_03: That that's those days are over.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_03: I I find that I'm I'm far more impacted by by the news, by entertainment, by you know, whatever it is, that the stuff that shows up on on feeds on social media.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: I I'm just I get I get rid of those things far more quickly than I used to because it's you know it's like eating food that's gone rotten that's gone bad or or it's past prime you put it in your mouth you can tell right away that this is not going to end well and so you and so you get rid of it and so I think the same the same has to apply to what we take in through our eyes our ears our just our being is that too kind of out there well I don't hear it as out there I think it's an important element and I want to be clear to me it doesn't mean we only uh take in things that are pleasant sure absolutely and and so it's an issue of timing as well and so if I'm in a state where no uh taking this in um I'm I'm not able to digest this in a way that's going to be helpful.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: So it's also a matter of timing.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: If there are things that are difficult to be with then we we choose our time right and place when we can uh so that we're able to um be responsive to things that are hard to bear witness to in our world right it's not about shoving our ost ostriching ourselves yes no I totally agree I want to be informed it's and I don't want to bury my head in the sand and just because I don't like what's going on in the world.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_03: But um at the same time I mean goodness when I was in my 30s 40s I was a news junkie.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_03: I started the morning with news talk radio and ended the evening with the national news and okay go to sleep no problem yeah and I just find that's those days are over I can't I don't listen to the news uh well traditional news if you will anymore and it's just too impactful it so uh I find other ways to stay informed but uh I'm I'm more discerning if you will as to as to where I'm going to get my my information from.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_03: So but that can be a full-time job.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: And with that so you know the question becomes what not what should I do but what state am I in?
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: Because our state will determine what's what's appropriate.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so if if we're in a threat state then how we process that information is going to look very differently than if we're in a state of well being where our nervous system says it's okay to be in my body it's okay to be with you and I can take this in.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: So when we have sufficient regulation in our nervous system we can bear witness to hard things, we can take in information that that can be challenging and we can have tough conversations.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: But if we're not then um asking what what should be my priority in this moment in terms of what what I do for for work or um for for relationships or whatever it is we care about.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: But making it again making a distinction that uh sometimes what we need to do isn't the pleasant thing of oh I'm so stressed out I'm just gonna chill out in front of the TV and be entertained.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's um I need to or it would be more helpful to uh either talk to somebody or um go for a walk or take care of that thing that's causing me stress and not avoiding.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_01: So it's having also the discernment to know uh am I in approach state or an avoidance date?
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes avoidance is our best choice because we're so dysregulated there.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_01: But can it be uh moving towards something that's nourishing not just um you know hitting the easy button of and entertainment.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah and it's that word state that I want to sort of pick up on because one of the things that came up when I was digging into this was this idea of creating conditions for discernment and and being more aware of that.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_03: I've when I reflect on on moments of poor is is that a an expression poor discernment or is that just a crappy choice?
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think it works.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_03: So when I look back on times in my life where there I don't think that sounds right when there when there has been moments of poor decision making so no discernment um invariably my state has been kind of ramped up again let's make the decision quickly it's often come from uh ego has been holding the wheel big time in the decision and yeah and often it doesn't end well right but when I think back to moments where I've where there's been discernment when I have thought about next steps and where I genuinely want to go with this I'm I'm not that it is it's come from a deeper place the decision hasn't been quick it's been well thought out I've probably written about it in my journal my morning pages a few times I've thought about it on some runs like I've really flushed it around and and seen how it looks from different angles.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_03: It takes time takes effort takes work but when I look at the when I look when I reflect on those decisions they've been good ones so lesson being it's worth the it's worth the effort to slow yourself down and make those make those pieces one of the bits that came up was um creating enough quiet to hear I think that's a neat expression creating enough quiet so to me purposefully turning off the news finding a quiet place in nature whatever quieting it down so you can genuinely hear learning to distinguish the voices um and relying on what they refer to as bodily wisdom I don't I mean that expression would never come out of my mouth but I totally understand what that means I can feel what that means.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_01: And as a somatic psychotherapist okay I'm in for a lesson here.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_01: Well no it's slightly um relevant to what we talk about and and and you hear me using that kind of language.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah and um all kidding aside um yes really helpful reminders I I go back I think of um when I was in grad school um or even actually um well I'll I'll go to the example in grad school and then come back to another uh moment um wanted to was loving the learning wanted to finish my research and uh get going with my practice and then look at uh we were keen to start a family but everything in me was saying baby baby now and um but my head was saying you know it'd be way better to get my practice going finish my research and all of that and as I was continuing my research I continued to start my morning with um morning reflection and journaling yoga meditation and and then a run and just the depth of that practice I I was in a place of clarity and trust and from that place of clarity and trust I opened to leaning into uh a deep call within that that said now and then my head said well it could take a year and a half or a while to get to get pregnant so I'm gonna open to this I'm gonna listen to this but it wasn't coming from fear it was coming from a place of deep alignment and so I said to you no more waiting and and and nine months later Matea's here um and and so for me the discernment is about making choices that deeply align with our values it's not necessarily that things turn out the way we want them to it's that we're coming from a place of alignment and it relates to trust and presence as well.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_01: And so there are aspects of that I got immensely uh uh sick or challenged during pregnancy that was a challenging time so the order of things wasn't what I would comfortably choose in terms of having to delay finishing my school uh starting things in hindsight in hindsight so it wasn't easy but it still felt right and so it it and sometimes we don't have uh we don't know how things will work out and it makes it brings me back to an earlier time leaving high school planning to go to a U.S.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_01: college and wanting to make the right decision and um took my five allotted recruitment trips and Harvard was one of them in terms of the opportunity to go there.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_01: And my friend who was at Harvard at the time said to me you know you know there's not just one right decision there's just different paths.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: And that really stuck with me because I was so concerned about not making the right choice in in that process and you know ended up forgoing full rides and taking out a student loan because when I came to the West Coast the year I graduated I just fell in love with Victoria and Vancouver Island felt such a deep connection to the land here and it was a national training center so it was more in turn in tune with my long-term goals and aspirations and uh Bernie Chisholm my coach high school coach I trusted him immensely and he said well you know look at as an investment in your future so with all of that it was aligning with trust and not choosing out of fear uh to move in that direction and sometimes it doesn't take us where we want to go we don't have all of the the elements but it's that that sense of being true to our higher values and our priorities and then letting go.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_01: You know it's interesting and it's just kind of hitting me now after after all these years together but I mean I've heard I've heard parts of those stories before but what I find interesting is that it was your it was your body that you listened to your inner knowledge your inner wisdom is we I think that was the word I used a moment ago and and I am so the opposite when I've had good discernment it's not been a uh inner wisdom it's been making a case is that you think well I would argue that the the case comes second and you probably are making a decision and then justifying it.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_01: And again if we move from uh a whole sense of what do we value and then weighing the pros and cons can be appropriate and then uh okay how do I move forward you know some of that can some of that could fit into motivated reasoning yeah fair some of it can fit into this is my wise choice because moving in this direction is aligned with my values yeah and and so sorry go ahead no you finish well um I I don't think you make all your decisions from a purely analytical place uh that's not how I know you okay well and so I think of him I think of Ike right our our firstborn as we used to call it our golden retriever and when he was sick and uh it was pointing in the direction of we were going to have to make the call and I was not there I was every ounce of my body and being was Ike you keep fighting and do not like we're gonna fight this and we're gonna get you through this but it was it was the reasoning of Arvette at the time who who planted some some seeds that kind of opened me to to uh helping I go being the right decision and then when I you know when I those of you that might know the story but when I had that con I had that conversation when I told him on the deck that night I said look if I'm gonna help you go I need a sign.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_03: And then when that sign showed up the next morning it was boom done that this is happening.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_01: I made the call and and he was gone within what eight ten hours and so but I didn't get there like there was no time in my body where it said hey Jace you know what I think I think it's now it was I needed to be swayed because up until then it was uh we are not giving up on you and you and you're not gonna give up either and so I think of that as being uh yeah of being a rational process of information coming in to help my discernment so you were you were grieving and wanting to give it every possible um I think denial would be yeah yeah and denial can be part of grieving okay and then new information came in and appealed to your love and care of Ike and you're willing to act yeah wanting what's best okay fair enough and so yeah okay so you took that information right into your heart to do the loving kind thing that you thought you could do at that junction.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_03: Okay but when I I mean goodness I as we said if we wanted to we talked earlier about giving some examples of discernment where things where it where the process was was a good one and the end result matched it.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_03: And then other ones where there was no discernment it was just poor poor decision making and the outcome matched it and I could fill a 24 hour show with those stories but if but I'm gonna but if there's one to jump on and again back to ego uh 1996 I'm graduating from Emily Carr graphic design we've worked on a project the entire year and my project was to put uh was to design food labels for a product that I made so they were fancy nut butters that I used to give away as Christmas gifts.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_03: So the the project that year was to put uh design a food label for sort of a a food product fan fancy peanut butters in that process of deciding what I wanted to put on the label Ike was is what came to me as well I'm gonna put Ike on the label and I just figured I at the time I knew that he was going to have a shorter life and so I figured I'd immortalize him on this on this nut on this nut spread jar and so it ended up being Ike and myself skeet and Ike's not not just nut spreads and boom that was my project resistance resistance resistance throughout the entire year except for maybe two professors two instructors and so here we are it's April May we're getting ready for the grad show it's um it's one of the requirements and Emily Carr is a it's a at the time it was on Granville Island beautiful campus and we had to draw spots as to as to where you were going to set up your grad show okay so I drew the primo spot right as people would come in into the studio boom there's my skeet nikes display and aren't you lucky I could tell that I could feel that some of the instructors were like damn we're gonna put that as our opening kind of welcome tough crap it's going there.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_03: So I designed uh the five jars were in the front on a pedestal and in behind was all of the process all of the illustrations all the writing all the interviews all the feedback like everything that led to the finished product from chaos comes a finished product right that was sort of what it was all about in the setup we had these dividers that were about um I don't know six feet wide maybe seven eight feet tall huge and so I filled that with all of the paperwork everything just randomly placed and a couple of the sheets spilt out over the top okay so there were corners of paper that were out over the over the top of those dividers and I'm and I'm pretty much finished the display my installation there and one of the instructors who we did not see eye to eye came by and said ooh we've got a problem here and I said well what seems to be the problem and he said well that paper that's sticking over the top of the divider that's not allowed and you're gonna have to change the display because yeah that's just not okay it's not what you know it's not what we want and and so he said you're gonna have to take down what you have and redo it.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_03: In hindsight you know I could have just got some scissors and gone along the top and snipped it off.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_03: I mean it wouldn't have been as good I didn't think but that's not where I was so he told me take it down redo it I was not in a place to take it down or redo it.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_03: I was exhausted it was the end of year not much sleep I had done my presentation so I said screw it I took the whole thing down and I went and found Sarah who was who was the student that all of the instructors thought was brilliant and she was she was really talented great project and I said Sarah would you like my spot she said yeah sure how come and I said don't worry about it take it where are you she told me where she was I got one jar of nut butter I put glue on the back and I slammed it up against the wall and that was my display because I because you had to have a display right otherwise it was one of the requirements for graduation so discernment non zippo quick decision it was a it was a screw you response it was my ego saying I've had enough I'm gonna I'm going to I'm gonna show you right yeah way to go chase and so I mean it was weird to have one jar of nut spread glued to the wall but that's what it was and I'm sure many people who went through the show went hey what's up with the nut spread uh glued to the wall anyhow point being we were opening at Granville Island a week later myself and Ian Walker who was my business partner at the time Skeet Nikes was actually becoming a company and we had rented a uh a table and we were going to sell nut spreads and yada yada yada so having the primo spot would have been would have been fantastic because it would have helped with advertising for Granville Island.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_03: But I did I wasn't able to think it through my reaction was quick impulsive and just going for that Sort of there.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_03: I showed you.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_03: But again, no discernment, poor decision.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_03: Came back, bit me in the ass, yada yada.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_03: And when we talk about these things, creating enough quiet to hear, there was no quiet.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_03: Learning to distinguish the voices, there was only one voice clamoring for attention, and it was my ego.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_03: And then having the courage to act.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_03: Well, it didn't require courage, it was just an impulse of whatever.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_03: And so the process of creating conditions for discernment, I failed on all of those.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_03: And no surprise, the outcome was a decision that if I could go back and do it again, even though it kind of felt good to shove the jar up against the wall and say, screw you.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_03: It was a it was a poor decision, right?
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_03: And and so that's a perfect example of where not creating the conditions for good discernment is time you want to take.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so even having um uh a decision and emotional give as a check-in as part of our evening, and okay, what uh what were my discern moments of discernment for today?
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um do I feel lined up with the the choices I made?
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um what colored how I discerned?
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_01: What was my my energy, my mood, who was I with?
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_01: How did that shape and how can I learn?
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_01: So all we can do in in hindsight is extract the growth.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_01: And so there's been some growth.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_01: And and so um you've already articulated how you understand what led to uh that uh decision and our impulsivity, right?
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_01: Uh uh gravitating towards what's immediate immediately satisfying.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um and that's where allowing space to have a thought, but also have faith uh have space where uh our first impulse is in our automatic, um, that we can create space to is this what I want to do, or is there another choice that we better?
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_01: And am I in a state to make a good decision on something that's important?
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_01: Or can I just say, I'll get back to you on that?
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_03: Um and I mean I take Ike for the example.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, goodness, in hindsight, that was the decision.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_03: So it was worth the time.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_03: I arrived at a place that was that was not only right but felt good.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, as much as I wanted him to stay, it was that was not fair to him.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_03: And and when he helped me make that decision, boom, that was easy peasy.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_03: So I think to to leave our listeners with uh a parting thought, it's it really is about creating the conditions for discernment, right?
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_03: And and and not hoping that we're gonna make decisions, but putting in place those those tick boxes to make sure that that what's gonna come out in the end is going to be to be the result of us consciously creating the circumstances for discernment.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_03: Fair?
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, and and we can uh engage that with reflective questions of just uh does this bring me closer to to love and clarity in terms of um the decision I'm making?
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_01: Is this nourishing or um or is it depleting, is it stressing or strengthening?
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um what's essential here?
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_01: And or is this decision made out of fear or a deeper alignment with um with what I aspire to be and what future does my next action uh align with and serve?
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_01: So the element of clarity about our values, our priorities, and then inviting the question, what's the next small action I can take that aligns with um who I aspire to be, what I aspire to serve, and um how those come together in this moment.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_01: So uh moving from start it with that distraction and overwhelm to um am I making a choice that's based in warmth, care, and actions align with with what my deepest values are.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_03: Well, once again, you were you have proved me wrong.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_03: We're 47 minutes, and and I said there's no way there was 45 minutes of conversation in this, but clearly there was.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_03: So thank you for pushing on this on this topic.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_03: Because yeah, clearly it's it's work for not just me, it's for everybody, right?
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_03: We we all need to set aside uh ego or what have you in those in those moments and and really just settle and and and and take the time, invest the time in really thinking through our our next steps.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_01: And again, it's not about being detached from the world, it's about becoming more aligned with what matters.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, agreed.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_01: And and allowing that um the aspirations that we have for ourselves in the world to have the the quietude, the presence, and the space to um line those up.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_03: So if you enjoyed this discernment as much as I did, then um yeah, we'd love you to like and comment and um write a uh share or even subscribe, and we look forward to seeing you uh next time.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_03: So thanks everybody.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for joining us.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, take care.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_03: Bye for now.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_03: Bye-bye.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_00: So that's it for today's episode of Imagine the Good.
• 50:26
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• 50:30
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• 50:46
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