Latest / Bitcoin for Financial Services Podcast / How W-2 Earners Slash Taxes With Bitcoin Mining

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How W-2 Earners Slash Taxes With Bitcoin Mining · Bitcoin for Financial Services Podcast

0:00
And most people walking around today do not have a problem of, I'm not mining enough Bitcoin that they're aware of.
0:06
But they do have the problem of, I'm going to have a really high tax bill this year.
0:10
Because you've got physical equipment, because we've got the one big beautiful bill, you've got a 100% write-off effectively in year one that gets you a little Bitcoin producing factory that's going to serve you for years to come.
0:23
Bitcoin is a currency on the internet.
0:25
If you don't trust any other currency, this is where you go.
0:28
It's going to outperform everything.
0:29
Bitcoin could eventually be worthless.
0:31
Every day is a good day to buy Bitcoin.
0:33
Bitcoin reached its highest price to date.
0:35
Bitcoin hitting a new high.
0:37
It really has reached escape velocity.
0:39
There is no second best.
0:40
Who cares about Bitcoin?
0:41
It's the only secure database that's ever been invented.
0:44
Antisocial.
0:45
Bitcoin is the real deal.
0:47
Stupid.
0:47
Everything is bullish for Bitcoin.
0:50
Immoral.
0:50
It's going up forever, Laura.
0:52
Fix the money.
0:54
Fix the world.
0:54
Thank you.
1:24
Welcome to Bitcoin for Financial Services Media, the podcast where sound money meets professional services.
1:36
We explore how to build the financial services industry within the principles, values, and ethos of Bitcoin.
1:43
A big part of that is our flagship event coming up in Denver, Colorado, October 20th through the 22nd.
1:49
Legacy finance is being rebuilt in real time.
1:52
And guess what? Bitcoin is at the very center of it.
1:55
The Bitcoin Financial Services Summit brings together the people actually building the infrastructure.
2:00
RIAs, CPAs, lenders, miners, treasury companies, and Bitcoin native operators all in one room.
2:07
If you want to understand where Bitcoin and finance is going next, get your tickets now at bffs.media.com.
2:13
Looking forward to seeing you there.
2:15
Today, we are joined by an amazing guest, Bo Turner, the CEO and co-founder of Abundant Minds.
2:21
Let's get started.
2:51
That's why you pay attention to Slack, Jordan.
2:53
Yeah.
2:54
He did not say that in Slack.
2:55
He did not say that in Slack.
2:56
I did.
2:56
He did say that in Slack.
2:58
Dang.
2:59
All right.
3:00
Wow.
3:00
We're kicking off the podcast in a really, really good place.
3:04
Today, we have Bo Turner, the CEO and co-founder of Abundant Minds.
3:10
I'm very excited about this episode because, man, we talk to Bo all the time, but not on a podcast.
3:18
And so we finally got around to working with Bo's agent slash actual executive assistant to get this scheduled.
3:27
And here we are.
3:29
So, Bo, thank you for coming on, man.
3:31
Man, thank you guys for having me.
3:33
This is fun to get the chance to actually speak to you guys in a more formal setting because usually it just devolves into us having a great time.
3:41
And we could still have a great time.
3:43
But I'd love to actually deliver some value to the people that are choosing to take an hour out of their lives to listen to us.
3:48
Yeah, no, absolutely.
3:51
All right, Wyatt, what questions?
3:53
Because, I mean, I feel like there's no question I can ask Bo that we've not discussed, at least in the last three months.
3:59
I'm curious, what's on your mind when you think about Abundant Minds and Bo Turner?
4:05
What are some burning questions you've got for him?
4:08
Certainly.
4:08
And, yeah, thanks so much for coming on, Bo.
4:10
I think this is going to be an awesome rip and a ton of fun.
4:12
It's been a ton of fun getting to know you better, working together, you know, with the Bitcoin Family Office Group,
4:18
which we'll get into here. But I want to kind of start setting the stage because, I mean,
4:23
you already know this, but I pick on miners frequently. My biggest gripe with them is,
4:29
you know, they think they have the hardest job in the world. They think they're the bee's knees.
4:33
They're the only one that do anything physical on Bitcoin, yada, yada, yada. So they get like
4:36
this big head about themselves. Right. But I kind of want you to break down like the mining
4:44
landscape in a couple different chunks so you know it's all over in the news you know the public
4:48
mega miners largely transitioning to hpc you kind of have your home mining movement um you know
4:56
shout out exergy and the guys here at the space but i feel like you kind of play in like the middle
5:02
of that so maybe just kind of give the audience you know your two cents on like the 30 000 foot
5:07
view of bitcoin mining today it's so hard to encapsulate i mean it's like any this is what
5:13
talking about this i can't possibly talk about bitcoin mining it's too
5:21
all right settle down
5:24
i'll be chill i'll be chill i had to get that off my chest
5:27
it's you can look it's like a prism you can look at it through so many different lenses
5:33
and for people that aren't familiar with our business i mean we operate on the hosting side
5:37
so we're essentially building the data centers and then running the operations for people that just
5:41
just want to buy the equipment and have it essentially managed hands off for them.
5:46
But there's so many different ways into the industry. And you mentioned Tyler and Exergy
5:49
on the heat reuse side. There's all these energy services businesses that spring up as a result of
5:55
mining. I see it as the most natural and versatile channel for physical energy that we have in the
6:04
world that most people don't understand fully. And outside of just running a business where we
6:09
help people make Bitcoin and get tax advantages and do all these fun kind of more financial things
6:15
that are targeted toward business owners. It really is an engineering solution to a wide array
6:20
of problems that are legitimately plaguing the earth from wasted energy to pollution into our
6:28
atmospheres to just having more sustainable grids and electricity delivery to people, homes,
6:34
businesses, communities. And most people don't see it from that lens because it's just a,
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okay, go plug in a computer, make Bitcoin, that's the end of the story kind of industry from the
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outside looking in. But the reason I'm so passionate about speaking about it, and the
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reason I'll go on podcasts and answer the same questions usually 15 times in a row,
6:55
is because most people have never taken the two minutes to realize that this encompasses so much
7:02
of human existence that you would never believe and solve so many problems in such a unique way
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that man, I'll shout it from the rooftops for hours on end day in and day out, just because
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when I learned about it, it was completely contrary to everything everybody had ever told me
7:18
about mining. And I want to be that vehicle for other people to realize that there's a solution
7:23
sitting right in front of you that can have an impact on people's lives that most people are
7:27
writing off as a waste of energy. And that's a profound misrepresentation to me.
7:34
Dang, mic drop.
7:37
Wyatt, I hope you have a deeper appreciation for mining after, at least even after that little intro.
7:43
You changed my mind ago. I'm sorry.
7:46
I mean, by the way, what we do is way harder than what you do.
7:48
So that is true. I mean, you guys do stuff with your hands.
7:55
I actually just had the pleasure. So I was in Oregon and I know, I know actually that Bo does
8:01
live in Oregon. I even know the city. I won't dox you, but I, you know, I did a site tour and
8:06
it was very interesting to actually see a mining site up close and personal and get to walk through
8:12
all the rigs and feel the coolness inside and the heat on the outside that it's pushing out.
8:19
My question, Bo, I know, you know, we spoke a little bit last night and I, I just wanting to
8:24
zero in on this topic of people are trying to figure out like, what's the narrative,
8:29
the next narrative for Bitcoin. And it feels like right now there's, it's running into some
8:35
headwinds on like, people have heard a lot of things, right, about the monetary supply. And
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I don't know if some of that's going stale. But my main question is, you all have tapped into this
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like very normie audience, right? Where the folks that you all refer over to us are not your
8:56
normal Bitcoiner, right? They're generally actually slanted a little bit older in age,
9:02
and they're looking at this asset class and they've got big tax bills they're trying to offset.
9:07
If you could dive into how you got to that audience, whereas most Bitcoiners are focused on
9:14
techie people or kind of this anarchist, like people who hate the government, that kind of thing.
9:20
How did you all tap into that and talk about the ramifications that I think that has for the
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broader Bitcoin community? Well, we all know that Bitcoin has a marketing problem, right? There's
9:31
no central marketing team that knows how to present this to the wider world. And mining is
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guilty of the same issue. And if anything, we're even more technical. And because we're so proud
9:41
of working with our hands in these facilities, like Wyatt alluded to, you know, we can't get
9:44
over ourselves enough to present ourselves adequately to an audience that's not already
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looking for us. It comes down to focusing on what problem we're actually solving for people.
9:55
And most people walking around today do not have a problem of, I'm not mining enough Bitcoin that
10:00
they're aware of. But they do have the problem of, I'm going to have a really high tax bill this
10:05
year. And I would love to offset that with something that I legitimately want to be involved
10:10
in. And if you're even curious about Bitcoin, the mining is a great avenue for that because
10:16
you've got physical equipment, because we've got the one big beautiful bill, you've got a
10:20
100% write off effectively in year one that gets you a little Bitcoin producing factory
10:25
that's going to serve you for years to come. And so that's a really cool thing for somebody
10:30
who just thought they were going to get slammed with a massive end of year income tax bill.
10:35
When it comes to reaching those people, you have to reach them with what their actual problem that they're trying to solve is and not just, hey, I have this great thing called Bitcoin mining.
10:47
Because as soon as you say Bitcoin mining and someone isn't briefed on the context of why they should be interested in that, it's an immediate write off.
10:54
Just like if you mentioned Bitcoin at a dinner party and you don't have any fellow orange pilled people sitting around with you.
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It's just a very quick way to kill a conversation.
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and so one lead with the benefits lead with the things that actually impact people and then you've
11:10
got enough curiosity and reason for them to lean in and say well how are you actually doing this
11:14
then when you tell them it's bitcoin mining you're setting up servers and they're
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turning raw electricity into the best money in the world and oh by the way you've got a
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great write-off in year one and it's effectively like setting up a turnkey business then that's
11:30
much more interesting to them. And it's all just about framing. We don't do anything particularly
11:35
special other than just offering a great service and really catering to the type of person that we
11:40
think we can serve the best. If there's one thing that I can point to that we've really optimized
11:46
for, it's that my wife, Christine, and I, when we first got into the industry, we were just trying
11:51
to be customers. And so our first experience with that was a half million dollar loss with another
11:57
host that we were really just expecting to be an easy, like everything goes well and we produce
12:03
passive Bitcoin kind of experience. So there was so much that came out of that experience
12:08
that led us to design the service the way that we have and effectively guard against the downside,
12:13
which is what most people are wary of when they come into this space. If they're not already
12:18
orange pilled is how am I going to get screwed? How am I going to lose all my money? Like what
12:23
if everything goes to zero, those are the kinds of questions and attitudes that we tried to design
12:29
the service around. And that I think we've done a very successful job of doing. When we talk about
12:34
things like hash rate redirect is kind of our flagship feature that we offer people where if
12:40
your machine goes down or it's arriving dead on arrival, or we've got a facility outage, like we
12:46
had a transformer blow at one of our sites several months ago, that was a huge cost to us. It was about
12:52
a quarter million dollar event where we just had to figure it out and get something stepped in But these people were down for a couple of weeks And on the back end we actually compensated them with our own hash rate
13:06
So events like that happen.
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You've got standard repairs.
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We're backing that up with effectively our own self-insurance so that the worst problem,
13:15
which is something happening to a facility or to your machine, is guarded against.
13:20
We also have insurance on the equipment itself.
13:22
So if there's ever a catastrophic event, you know, flood, fire, some kind of natural disaster, all your equipment's insured. And then we're also working on actual custody insurance. So most people that get into the space and they're looking at self-custody, which we're really heavy advocates of, but a lot of people come in with a lot of trepidation around.
13:42
making sure that the downside of them choosing to take sovereignty over their funds is guarded
13:47
against and they've got that peace of mind knowing I'm creating a valuable asset. I'm doing everything
13:53
right on the front end. I'm working with a reputable company. I've got my tax strategy in
13:58
place. All of this is set up, but then you lose your keys. That's a horrible, horrible outcome.
14:03
So at every point that we can guard someone that doesn't know what they need to look out for
14:08
to the downside against that downside, we're doing that and making sure that we provide,
14:13
I guess the best way to characterize it is a really safe bridge. And you kind of alluded to it.
14:19
This is a great bridge for people that aren't looking at the space actively. We work with a
14:25
lot of real estate investors. We work with a lot of retirees, people who you would not consider
14:30
technically sophisticated. And the reason that they're open to doing this is because they see
14:35
that we've thought through all of the avenues that usually other hosts have not really guarded
14:42
against and prevents the really sophisticated investor from taking the risk and actually built
14:48
the service to cater to that person so that it feels like a safe on-ramp. And I think that's the
14:54
vehicle or one of the vehicles for the 99% of capital that's not in Bitcoin yet to consider
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15:32
that's beautifully said bo and i do want to circle back to the big beautiful bill and some
15:40
of the tax ramifications here shortly but before we do you kind of alluded to some of the things
15:45
but i just kind of want you to like double click and hone in on your business model because you
15:50
know jordan and i get a lot of questions about you know hosted mining services this is generally
15:54
you know people are going down the rabbit hole like to discover interested in bitcoin mining like
15:58
I feel like in my experience, sooner rather than later.
16:03
And so there's a lot of hosted mining services now,
16:06
but how do you guys distinguish yourself?
16:09
We'll shout out Sydney here.
16:11
I think you guys do an amazing job
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having dedicated resources and account managers
16:16
where people can call and ask self-custody questions.
16:19
And you guys just take it upon yourself
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to help them with that from the jump.
16:22
But I know there's a lot more that goes into it
16:24
as far as energy sources and on-site,
16:28
you know, maintenance and the communication of like how much you're actually hashing,
16:34
what kind of pool you're directing this to, like all that stuff.
16:37
So why don't you kind of give us like the in the weeds, like how Abundant Minds operates?
16:43
Yeah, not to keep digging you a deeper hole of how challenging and robust this business is, Wyatt.
16:50
But it really is a lot.
16:52
It's your podium, man. It's your podium. Tell me how hard it is.
16:58
All right. So the overview business model is we're going out, we're finding an energy source,
17:05
we're closing on the real estate, we're getting some relationship with the power company or the
17:09
power provider and making sure that you can actually operate a mining site. That's the most
17:14
intensive, both from an energy, I mean, like human energy, bandwidth, complexity,
17:22
and availability standpoint, part of the process that we engage in is just getting the site set up
17:27
from the beginning. So we're going out, forming those relationships, building the facility,
17:33
doing the hard part, essentially, because what most people don't realize is
17:37
you can set up like one or two units in your house to learn. And I highly encourage that,
17:44
if nothing else, just to get the experience. It's super fun. Your wife will absolutely be mad at you
17:49
once it starts running for long enough in the garage, because it's loud, it creates a lot of
17:53
heat. And without blowing out your home electrical panel, you really can't scale beyond one or two
17:58
units. So that the whole process of just finding the places where you can set up a large scale site
18:04
is a major component that people don't understand or appreciate how hard it is and just think,
18:09
okay, I can go figure this out. So that's the first thing that we're doing. Then our core business
18:14
model is people come to us, they are actually buying the equipment through us, they're buying
18:19
mining machines from us, largely because I see people all the time try to source their own,
18:27
try to find the lowest price that they can, and then unfortunately either get the wrong piece of
18:33
equipment or no equipment at all because they haven't worked with a verified source.
18:38
Unfortunately, it's just the reality of this space. Probably crypto in general has scammed
18:44
more people than any industry in history that I'm aware of, and mining is no exception to that.
18:48
So giving people a safe way to get the right equipment is the first step.
18:53
Once they've purchased the equipment from us, it's hooked up in one of our facilities in Oregon.
18:57
We're also expanding to other states at the moment.
19:00
So we're actually racking everything, getting everything configured.
19:04
At some point during this process, you've got an onboarding call with someone like Sydney,
19:08
who is getting your wallet set up so that when you get payouts, you may already have a wallet set up.
19:13
But if you don't, he's helping you pick one, get it set up in a safe way.
19:17
configure your pool, which is the way that you actually get the payouts from the Bitcoin network.
19:22
And then once the machine is up and running, we are doing everything on the back end to make sure
19:28
that it's operational, that all the parts that need to be replaced at any given time are replaced,
19:33
which is also something we do at no cost. That's a whole separate conversation, but we've got a very
19:38
all-inclusive model because it's so easy to get into this business thinking, oh, you know, I got
19:44
in for the lowest price and then find out three months down the road or a couple of years down
19:49
the road that everything is an upcharge down the line. And so that was one of the most frustrating
19:56
things that I experienced and my wife experienced when we got into the space. So we really treated
20:01
this as let's give people one line item bill, one line item that covers everything, insurance,
20:08
spare parts power talking to sydney you know getting consulting getting education because
20:15
everybody needs to get more educated in this space especially if they're coming in fresh
20:18
and i don't like people not educating themselves because they're scared of paying for you know a
20:25
couple hundred dollars an hour for a good consultant i think that should be just par for the course is
20:30
that you're getting the resources to become a better investor to become a better bitcoiner as
20:34
a part of working with us. So to make a long story short, everything from getting the equipment to
20:40
setting up the site to running the operation, that's what we do. Our clients are paying up front
20:46
for a machine and then paying monthly for that operating expense that covers everything and then
20:50
keeping all the Bitcoin. Beautiful. Yeah. And I can attest to the high level of service. I mean,
21:00
maybe go into your all's experience a little bit. I know you have a background in real estate,
21:05
and then you kind of alluded to a bad experience that you had with a hosting provider that I'm not
21:12
sure if they're around still. But maybe just walk us through that history. And I think that that's
21:18
helpful for people because I know on a lot of our tax calls that we do, whether they're the one-on-ones
21:24
or the group calls that we've done once a month for a little while now,
21:28
there is a lot of people understand the real estate side
21:32
because they've heard about that for maybe a little bit longer
21:35
or they have experience in that realm.
21:38
And just talk about the similarities,
21:41
but then how Bitcoin mining actually even differs
21:43
from the real estate side of things.
21:46
Yeah, I came from a family of real estate investors and gold bugs.
21:50
So lots of hard asset lovers in my family.
21:54
That's awesome.
21:56
I had an engineering degree.
21:58
So I was an engineering student.
21:59
That was when I first encountered Bitcoin and started to buy into it.
22:03
It was about five years later, after I had been full time in real estate, building our portfolio of properties in Dallas and across the southeast, that I really caught the Bitcoin bug heavy.
22:14
And we started pivoting out of real estate and actually liquidating our properties to get a better position in Bitcoin.
22:20
And because I had that engineering management, information systems background, I had a lot of data center coursework in undergrad, I had this thought, rightly or wrongly, that mining made a lot of sense to me just on an intuitive level.
22:35
I thought, okay, I'm very much a lover of the idea of setting up systems that pay you even when you choose not to wake up and go to work in the morning or give you the flexibility to design your life around passive streams of income.
22:48
And so hooking up a computer that ran 24-7 that would pay me whether I was overseeing it or not, effectively was a 24-hour digital employee, was a very appealing idea.
23:00
so i had never built a facility at this point and the most natural way to get into the space
23:08
most people's you know first exposure to the space is some form of hosted mining or cloud mining which
23:14
we don't have to go down that rabbit hole but i would avoid that at all costs because you don't
23:18
get any of the tax and benefits and more likely you're going to get scammed than not um so hosted
23:23
mining was very appealing to me. And I picked out a host who had some space. And unfortunately,
23:30
I made the choice to be very cost conscious rather than going with what I thought would be the most
23:36
high reputation provider. And so I worked at this host in Georgia. Fortunately for everybody else
23:44
in the world, you will not encounter this host because they went bankrupt not too long after
23:48
we had this experience. But suffice it to say, everything that could go wrong with this experience
23:55
went wrong. And I knew enough to be dangerous. And I had owned and run a business and had an
24:01
engineering degree. So I figured I knew enough to get through it and not have a catastrophic event.
24:06
But this was a great masterclass in you can't do a bad deal with a good partner and you can't do a
24:14
good deal with a bad partner. That is the TLDR of what I learned from this. And everything from
24:21
the shipping to the repair process to uptime to this guy's power contracts, you name it,
24:30
it went wrong. I mean, machines arrived with massive damage by the time they got to the facility.
24:36
His facility manager left them sitting out in the Georgia sun and rain for many days before they
24:43
came into a facility. Once they were in there and it was time to hook them up, there was so much
24:48
damage that I got a $30,000 repair bill that I had to pay in order for any of these things to come
24:52
online. Once we got them online, this was an interesting period in Georgia power markets
24:59
because they were pricing in gas price increases. It was still indexing on fuel prices. So his price
25:06
of electricity actually went up higher than what he was going to charge me for hosting.
25:10
So his incentive to turn me on just went down the toilet very quickly.
25:15
And once we got anything online, I mean, these machines just dropped like flies because they were not cared for.
25:23
It was in an environment where heat was not managed, airflow is not managed, particulate was not managed.
25:29
It was just absolutely a disaster of a data center.
25:33
And I learned, you know, I say all this.
25:37
I'm really grateful that this happened in retrospect because there's no experience I could have designed for myself to teach me more about how to fix all of the problems with this industry than what actually happened to us.
25:49
But at the time, you know, Christine and I had been engaged for a couple of weeks when this really started to go downhill.
25:54
And so I was experiencing the just absolute deflation as a human man of what our future would look like And you know is a lot of money to anybody And especially at that point in our life that was a
26:09
very meaningful part of our net worth. And so after this all played out, you know, we basically
26:17
still had a few properties and it was like either detach from this and give up on it or realize that
26:24
this is a legitimate model and we just picked the wrong person and let's take fate into our own
26:28
hands and build our own facility. And that's what we did as we, we had moved to Oregon fairly
26:33
recently. We picked a site about three hours North of where we live. Um, and just went through the
26:40
process of, of, you know, selecting the property, finding the energy source, getting an agreement
26:45
with the utility, building it out. That was our first three megawatt site. And that was the first
26:51
place that we hosted our first clients. And that's, that's the, the short version of the story. I could
26:57
go pretty long into all of the line items that happen through that nightmare experience. But I
27:02
think people can infer that there's just a lot of unknowns if you're not familiar with the industry.
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27:41
Well, there certainly are.
27:42
I do have respect for people
27:45
that do things in the real world.
27:46
I have a very brief part of my career
27:48
where that was the case.
27:49
I was working for a real estate investment company.
27:52
We were installing manufactured homes in communities.
27:55
And it's just like, yeah, once you're doing things in the real world,
27:57
the amount of stuff that go wrong, deadlines, timelines, it is insane.
28:02
But I do want to talk about tax credit from the big, beautiful bill
28:07
because it's pretty new legislation,
28:10
almost seems tailor-made for hosted mining providers.
28:16
I know you guys are all talking about it,
28:18
But I just think it's like a really interesting unlike I know you and Jordan are doing a ton of work on this front together.
28:24
So I kind of, you know, step out of the way and not not interfere here, which that's a big step for me.
28:30
I don't normally do that. So why don't you guys kind of walk us through like how folks are utilizing these strategies, how they're benefiting and how the your guys both services are kind of coming together.
28:44
Jordan, I'm going to defer to you on on describing the actual mechanics of the bill.
28:48
and then I can fill out any gaps. Yeah, sure. So, I mean, they brought back 100% bonus depreciation
28:54
that had been phased down since the original Trump Tax Cuts and Jobs Act that was passed at
29:03
the end of 2017. And so ultimately what it means is you're able to purchase business equipment
29:09
and take 100% bonus depreciation year one. There's a few things that you have to justify
29:17
and doing that. A lot of business owners will use that for a vehicle purchase or something like that.
29:24
But in this space specifically, it is the equipment that you purchase, you place that in service,
29:30
which essentially in this industry just means getting it plugged into the wall and earning
29:37
Bitcoin. And then you're able to take that as a deduction. Sorry, Wyatt, I just want to make sure
29:44
So that's one thing that we actually do tackle sometimes is this credit versus deduction.
29:50
So you take it as a 100% deduction against your mining income.
29:57
And yeah, like Bo mentioned a little bit earlier, that generally creates a loss in a year one.
30:03
And then there's a active versus passive determination that you have to make.
30:10
And that's kind of a number of hours that you have to hit.
30:13
And so all that to say, it creates this tax loss that if it is structured correctly, you can take that and apply it against your other income.
30:24
And then the calculation is basically whatever your tax rate is multiplied by the loss that you're taking, that's going to be your tax savings.
30:32
And then we work with clients on, you know, a lot of them are like, hey, I want to do this over a multi-year strategy so that I don't get hit with taxes in year two through five.
30:44
And so that's kind of another big thing that I feel like Bo and I talk with a lot of their clients about is the IRS generally sets things up so that they get paid eventually.
30:56
And so how can we make it so it's not just a timing thing from one year to the next?
31:01
And one last thing I'll mention, and I'll throw it over to Beau, is it also works really well in a situation where someone has a big bonus or maybe they sold their business and they have a year of income that's way larger than other years.
31:18
and a strategy like this to create a tax loss offset of that is very good,
31:25
especially then even if we do in years two through five,
31:29
we have positive net income on the mining business.
31:32
Well, now it might be in a lower bracket than it was in the year
31:35
that we deployed all the capital into the equipment.
31:37
So, yeah, that's kind of the main overview.
31:41
But what did I miss?
31:42
Well, and Bo, just before you jump in, like a question I have.
31:45
So even if I'm a W-2 like standard employee somewhere, I make a hundred grand, you know, I owe, let's say 20 grand in taxes.
31:55
I set up an LLC, purchase some minors.
31:58
I can depreciate those minors because that LLC is a pass-through entity.
32:02
Like when I file my personal tax returns, like it could possibly, you know, net out, you know, what I would owe to the IRS.
32:09
Right. Is that like conceptually how it works?
32:11
Yep. Yeah.
32:12
As long as you hit the hour requirement, which is generally 100 hours devoted to the activity across, you know, there's a few different buckets of time categories that you can use there.
32:25
But yes, you and that's I would say generally that's the type of client that we see coming over to Abundant is someone who has active income on a W-2 or maybe coming through a 1099.
32:37
and they're looking to offset that tax liability that comes from that.
32:43
We set them up as a business.
32:45
They devote time into that business.
32:47
They deploy resources into that business.
32:50
And yeah, they take a loss for one, two, three years on that business
32:56
because they're continually investing back into the business.
33:00
Then it really is not Bitcoin specific.
33:03
It's just the only way within the Bitcoin industry to really deploy a strategy like this.
33:09
Because the alternative is you acquire Bitcoin just by purchasing it, but there's no tax advantage to that.
33:17
You just get in when you get in and nothing hits your tax return unless you sell.
33:25
And if you sell, unless you have a capital loss, then there's nothing to report.
33:31
And even in the capital loss standpoint, like if someone got in at 120 last year and they want to do some tax loss harvesting, that's only on the capital gain loss side.
33:41
So it's not as powerful as someone who has just, yeah, they're making half a million dollars on a W-2 in the 37% bracket and they're looking to offset some of the either the withholding or the additional tax due that comes in April.
33:56
That's awesome.
33:57
And then, sorry about the last question.
33:59
On the multi-year strategy, is it like if I want to own nine machines at the end of three years, it's like year one, I buy three machines and I can deduct that.
34:09
Year two, I buy three machines and deduct it.
34:11
Is it that simple or is it more complicated?
34:14
It really, yeah, it's that simple to a degree.
34:17
What you have to, you end up having an overall profit and loss statement and balance sheet since it is a business.
34:23
So year one, especially if you deployed in like mid year, right?
34:27
So you only have half of the year to get revenue.
34:31
So revenue is lower, but you still had to make the full investment.
34:35
And so that loss is larger.
34:37
Now you go to year two, you've got revenue from the first batch machines.
34:41
And then maybe you purchase those, the new three machines towards the beginning of the year.
34:46
Now your top line is larger.
34:48
You still have the bonus depreciation.
34:50
You have your hosting costs, your travel expenses, your software, your professional fees, all the different things.
34:58
But what you end up having to do is really estimating like, OK, this is what I think we're going to earn in dollar terms from the top line mining revenue.
35:08
And then here's what the expenses are going to look like. And here's what my depreciation schedule looks like.
35:12
And then if you have to sell any of the Bitcoin to cover any of the costs or to buy more machines, you have to factor in.
35:18
Is that creating a gain? Is that creating a loss?
35:21
So all of that to say, yes, it can be that simple,
35:24
but you do have to keep an eye on like,
35:26
how is the overall P&L trending throughout the year?
35:31
And that kind of depends on what the Bitcoin price is doing, right?
35:34
If we're in a bull market,
35:36
well, maybe that loss is actually going to be a little bit less.
35:38
And so maybe we need to go to achieve a certain tax strategy.
35:42
We actually need to go deploy more capital into mining equipment
35:45
to generate a larger loss.
35:48
yeah if i could just zoom out a little bit and because i don't know if there's a disclaimer at
35:55
the bottom of this i'll just say i'm not a tax professional don't take any of this as tax advice
36:00
but as a general rule like you're saying wyatt in the tax code the most favorably treated entities
36:08
are businesses so it's the tax code is very much designed to reward people for starting and
36:14
operating small businesses. And if you're familiar with the Robert Kiyosaki and Tom Wheelwright
36:20
school of how to navigate the quadrant to go from employee to self-employed to business owner to
36:28
investor, the business owner and investor side is the way to get the most favorable treatment under
36:34
the tax code. And so at risk of oversimplifying how much it takes to actually build and run a
36:40
mining business, essentially what we're doing is simplifying the process to become a business owner
36:46
in the Bitcoin space through hosted mining. And that gives you the avenue and the flexibility
36:52
to take more deductions than you could, especially if you're just a W-2 is your only way of generating
37:00
income. This is a vehicle for you to have a structure that actually offsets some of that
37:05
income. And like Jordan said, the profiles that most people come in with that get the most benefit
37:11
and work with us the most often are highly paid W-2 employees, business owners, investors,
37:18
generally people who would benefit from having a business entity that helps inform their tax
37:23
strategy and ultimately flows up to their personal return. And it's just something that while it can
37:28
sound complex, gives you quite a bit of flexibility in how you navigate any particular tax situation.
37:35
And my job and Jordan's job is in those situations to simplify it as much as possible to get you the best net benefit through having what is essentially a turnkey business, if you will, like a Bitcoin operating franchise that's started in your name and make that as easy and simple and scalable as possible.
37:57
so that to some degree, you know, like asterisk on what I'm about to say, what you do in the Bitcoin
38:04
space from that point forward is a part of your operating business to some degree. And so it's an
38:10
easy on-ramp vehicle to get you the best benefit bang for your buck while also opening up the field
38:16
for you to participate in many diverse ways in this space and count toward those 100 hours,
38:22
have more avenues for getting ways to offset any sort of tax bills you might have.
38:27
And just give people more latitude to participate in the Bitcoin space and get the benefits that
38:34
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39:19
I love that framing. That's really cool. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and you get into,
39:26
It's so funny. I think all three of us on this call have kind of seen the light on, you know, I don't know, but it sounds like maybe you've been kind of like, I don't know if you ever have been a W2 employee.
39:38
I remember when I was a W2 employee, I was like, I got to get out of this bucket as quickly as possible because there's no flexibility at all.
39:47
I mean, I just remember seeing my pay stub right out of college, seeing what was being paid in withholdings.
39:54
It was kind of like out of my control, seeing Social Security and Medicare taxes come out, state, local taxes.
40:00
And you're just like, man, what can I do?
40:02
And they've really watered down what you what you can do as an employee if that's all you do.
40:08
You have your home interest or you have charitable deductions, but the standard deduction is so high that you have to do a lot of that in order for that to move the needle.
40:18
And so, okay, then you move into this space where it's like, I'm going to go start my own business.
40:24
And of course, that has its own challenges, but it opens up so many doors.
40:29
And I love what you said, Beau, like you get into the Bitcoin space and you start meeting people, you're traveling to different events.
40:35
And all of a sudden, it's very easy to justify that I'm actually I am building a business or multiple businesses within this space.
40:45
And I started out in the mining, you know, in the mining side.
40:49
But then there's obviously tech opportunities.
40:51
There's consulting opportunities.
40:53
There's JV with JVs with even like the oil and gas industry that I think is really interesting for for the mining space.
41:00
And so, yeah, I think it's a good stepping stone for people to kind of get a taste of that.
41:06
And then they see the tax benefits and they're like, hmm, that's very interesting.
41:11
Now, for a lot of the clients are like, but I make so much money at my W-2 and my benefits are so good.
41:18
I can't walk away from that fully, but I like being able to kind of do both and get the benefits of both all at the end of the year on the one tax return.
41:27
So, okay, one thing I know that I want to make sure we touch on is, Bo, I know we're all involved with the Bitcoin family office. I remember where I was when we started having some of the conversations about that. And I'm just, I want you to kind of touch on why you think that there's value in what we're building over the Bitcoin family office.
41:51
Maybe for folks that don't know about it, give the quick synopsis.
41:55
But how you see your all's clients fitting well into a structure like that and what you all do, what you lean on partners to do.
42:04
I think that'd be helpful to just let the audience know more about that.
42:08
Absolutely.
42:09
Well, there's a trend I think you can see unfolding in just what I've described so far that I like to build things that solve my own problem.
42:16
And so the mining business was a solution to a very painful problem that we had.
42:23
And the Bitcoin Family Office Group, for people who don't know, is just a consortium of different service providers within the Bitcoin space that are Bitcoin native that help people navigate the financial waters in a way that typically is only available to people with a nine figure and above net worth because of the level of service and integration that's required.
42:44
once you're managing that size of portfolio.
42:48
People would usually set up what is called a family office,
42:50
which is basically just a dedicated team to run your financial life.
42:54
And it typically spreads throughout the entire life of that family.
42:58
And they're usually built on the back of a successful exit
43:01
or some kind of major net worth tier where that's what's required.
43:08
You need a fully integrated, well-synced team
43:10
to manage your financial life and everything that stems from it in a way that information doesn't
43:17
get lost. You don't have to play telephone 15 times a day so that your accountants know what
43:22
your lawyers are saying, your financial advisor knows what your accountants are saying.
43:27
And what I discovered as an entrepreneur is this idea of a fractional family office.
43:32
And that is essentially just all of these services kind of strung together through information sharing relationships.
43:42
They may be different entities, but there is a coordination among them that solves that problem at a small fraction of the price and gets you pretty much everything that you would wish for with your own family office without having to have a seven figure year overhead to have a full time team focusing on your financial life.
44:00
And it makes it so much more accessible to people that are, you know, at five to 10 million net worth rather than 100 billion. And is even a great option for people that are 100 plus, specifically in the case of the Bitcoin family office group.
44:15
You know, we are offering a unique range of services that directly apply to the digital asset space and specifically to Bitcoin that I don't think exists in that form anywhere else and is actually a great complement to even somebody who has an existing family office but doesn't have the Bitcoin native competency, especially as people, you know, there's a lot of people who came into the Bitcoin space with a pretty significant net worth and started allocating a real estate.
44:45
reasonably small percentage of that into Bitcoin. And then over the years, that position grew and
44:50
grew and grew and became something that as long as you didn't have the inclination to sell it,
44:57
something that now you have to manage with the same degree of competency that you're managing
45:01
all of your traditional assets. And that's a gap in the market that people don't know how to handle
45:06
and comes with its own unique challenges. I mean, we've been talking about the tax piece quite a bit.
45:12
we kind of touched on custody. That's another very unique consideration that you don't usually
45:16
have to think about when you're talking about managing your assets and your portfolio,
45:21
at least not in a deep way. There's specific trust structuring that benefits the space more
45:28
than others and ways to think about long-term tax strategy through vehicles like mining
45:32
that give you a unique way to navigate the space that honestly have just never been coordinated
45:38
into a coherent group that understands all of those strategies and knows how to apply them to
45:43
your unique situation. And ultimately, the more valuable you are in terms of net worth,
45:49
the more valuable your time is and the more time you can waste trying to reinvent the structure
45:55
from the ground up and try to learn through Google and Claude and whatever other resource
46:00
you have, how to set it up yourself. So this group of companies was really just formed so that we
46:07
could solve that problem for people and ultimately solve the problem for myself because my existing
46:12
fractional family office is not Bitcoin native. They love that I do it, but ultimately I'm the
46:17
one who's bringing that competency. And so it was super refreshing that, you know, we had a
46:24
conversation about it, Jordan, that it was kind of already on your mind and really just felt like
46:28
it was aligned from the first moment that it was mentioned in conversation that this was a need
46:34
that people have. And we're super proud to be a part of it. I think mining is an awesome strategy
46:39
within it, but ultimately people get to pick and choose a la carte what is actually applicable to
46:45
them. Some people don't need mining as a tax strategy. Some people already come with a financial
46:50
advisor they know and love. And so you don't necessarily have to pick everything or nothing.
46:55
It's a, what do I actually need and what actually applies to me that covers the gaps that I
47:00
currently have in my wealth strategy and is going to enable me to navigate that as it applies to the
47:05
Bitcoin space in a way that my current financial team could not. Man, you should be our spokesperson.
47:14
That was awesome. Yeah, it's been it's been awesome. It's been super fun for me. You know,
47:20
you got to be a continuous learner, just just working with you guys. You know, I feel like
47:27
I've really leveled up my understanding of some of these strategies we've talked about today.
47:33
And yeah, I think the big unlock is just the fact that we have those information sharing
47:38
agreements. A lot of times I do. You're just constantly as a financial professional,
47:43
if the client doesn't have a team they're working with, you're in this awkward position where,
47:49
oh, as a financial professional, I know that's a tax question. I want to help you. I'm pretty sure
47:55
I know the answer. I just can't give tax advice. And then, you know, same thing with Jordan. You
47:58
know, he gets financial questions all the time. He can't give financial advice. So we just really
48:01
get to strip all that away and actually just like get the right people, you know, on a call together
48:07
in the same room together. So a client can get like actually what they're looking for, as opposed
48:11
to having to do like this nuanced dance around, like, this is going to get me into trouble or not,
48:17
because it's not really serving, you know, anybody, anybody well. And then, you know,
48:21
The fact that we can work together in the background and communicate these things amongst ourselves and beat up different ideas.
48:27
And then you present, you know, unified, you know, plan and vision to the client, I think is awesome.
48:33
I've been super impressed by just the reception it's gotten kind of in the Bitcoin community, you know, or folks we've talked to, you know, potential prospects or new clients where it's like, I've been looking for something like this, you know.
48:47
Thank goodness this like exists now.
48:49
And it's been awesome. And a lot of people want to get involved, too, which I think is like a testament of like the hole there was in this market.
48:58
Yeah, I found that I was saying too often to people who are working with us in the higher net worth band, like they would ask me a question about how to set something up, whether it was regards to their financial plan or their tax plan.
49:12
And I would say, you've got to talk to somebody. And then I realized that I was saying that enough that I was just telling them to take a set of facts to somebody who didn't have the right context and didn't know how to advise them.
49:25
And I did not feel qualified whatsoever without asking for a ton of information that they really shouldn't be giving me about their total financial picture, how to advise them on their mining strategy.
49:36
And the tax piece was an obvious thing that we wanted to get in place.
49:41
And it's why I've loved getting to know Jordan is that he's a super fun guy to be around.
49:46
but also our clients love him because he actually knows how to solve their problem and just press the easy button when it comes to how do I set this up on the tax side.
49:56
But when it came to the, well, how does this integrate into my whole financial plan?
50:00
I'm like, OK, there's a whole aspect of this that we're not solving for people and we're making them go out into the woods and just like hunt for a solution.
50:07
And then hopefully it'll fit and integrate.
50:09
And I realized that, one, that's a great opportunity for us to solve the problem ourselves. But also, if we don't solve it, they're probably going to find a less suitable solution that doesn't have all the context. And I'm doing everybody a disservice by not just lining up the easy string of people who I know understand the context, the strategy, the way to work through it and navigate it.
50:35
And I was solving a problem for myself, but it was obviously a solve for our client base as well.
50:41
And then the really nice thing is I know that a lot of people who are advising in the financial space as it relates to Bitcoin are not necessarily aware of the mining side as a tax vehicle.
50:52
That's really kind of a great solution to a huge swath of people's individual situations.
50:59
but because it's this niche within a niche,
51:02
they don't have enough context or information to understand how to apply it to
51:05
that situation.
51:06
So it's very much a two way street where I think people who are navigating this
51:11
space and want the best strategy to navigate it are exposed to what I think is
51:15
that best strategy.
51:17
And the people who are within the strategy working with us are now exposed to
51:21
all the resources that make it easy and where you don't have to coordinate and
51:25
spend hours and hours of your time trying to make sure that everything is legal. All your T's are
51:30
crossed and your I's are dotted correctly as it applies specifically to this industry. So it solves
51:35
a huge gap, I believe. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the last thing I would say about it is that it also
51:41
makes sure that the client is in good hands, right? Because if you have trusted partners that
51:48
you've met them in person, you've gone to dinner with them or they're in their families, like
51:53
But that just that provides so much just peace of mind for the clients so that I'm not having to say, oh, I've heard about this, you know, this hosted mining company down.
52:04
in Georgia that, you know, I've seen him at a conference, maybe you should go work with that
52:09
guy, right? And then things blow up. And that ultimately that affects my, you know, my social
52:15
capital that I have with that client. And so, and of course, like you mentioned earlier, this,
52:20
this industry, for whatever reason, there are folks that take advantage of people and don't
52:26
tell them the whole truth. And so making sure that we shield clients from those bad experiences or
52:33
potentially catastrophic experiences, if there's fraud involved or something like that,
52:39
we can shield them away from that. And obviously, there's a lot of that even within the Bitcoin for
52:44
Financial Services is that we have this very broad array of relationships with different products and
52:49
services out there that we know these people and you can actually trust their services for your
52:57
clients. And so I just think we've really gotten down to this core group between ways to
53:03
mine Bitcoin, buy, sell Bitcoin with Bitcoin well, financial planning, tax planning, and then the
53:11
estate planning stuff as well, of course. Because Kyle, I think Wyatt and I always joke about that
53:17
Kyle is the main beneficiary of Bitcoin for financial services. So the attorneys always
53:25
come in handy. They always win, man. They always win.
53:27
If you're listening, Kyle, we're cheering for you. I promise. So, all right, cool. Well, I guess-
53:35
Yeah. Well, and George, just actually one thing, I'll add a quick on that. I think
53:41
in that same vein, a lot of these things fall in the chore category in a person's life. I know I
53:48
need to get the estate plan. That sounds like a huge hassle. It's like, I know I want to start
53:53
mining, but that sounds like a huge hassle, financial planning, et cetera. One of the biggest
53:57
benefits I feel like we add to our clients and think of a new prospect, new client that we've
54:01
brought on recently is just like, okay, getting to know Bo and the Abundant Mine team. I know how
54:08
you guys do business. I know how you onboard clients. I know what to expect from their point
54:11
of view. Jordan's setting up their LLC. I know how Jordan operates. I know how Satoshi Petroli
54:17
operates. I know what that process involves. And now when I start working with them in the financial
54:21
plan, like I already have all this background context of what they've been through. Like they
54:26
don't need to re-explain it to me. I don't need to try to like fill in the gaps or, you know,
54:31
mine data from, from them and, and understand what they just did previously. Like now we can
54:37
actually start devoting, you know, real work and effort to like the next phase of, of the plan or
54:43
the strategy. So we're actually really able to cut down on a lot of time, a lot of back and forth,
54:48
It's a lot of administrative BS that nobody actually wants to deal with.
54:53
And it just like reduces that, that chore burden.
54:56
So a lot of these things are important.
54:58
You know, you should do them.
54:59
You just have like this acid reflux of not wanting to do it because you know, it's going
55:03
to be a huge pain in the ass.
55:04
It's like, we can remove a lot of that.
55:07
And the subtle benefit that, you know, I, I'm going to make some people angry when I
55:12
say this, but like most people that I speak to on the back end professional
55:17
services side are not people that generally I'm like excited to go hang out
55:22
with and like go visit at some point.
55:25
And I say that with all the love in my heart, but like genuinely I've loved
55:31
getting to know you guys And aside from enjoying working together like you both are our friends at this point And I think that a very underrated part of this is that similar to just being a part of the Bitcoin community where you meet people that through some shared set of interests you got very long term alignment and probably lifelong relationships
55:52
like this is just a great group of people that not only do I feel comfortable referring clients
55:58
and people who work with to you guys, because I know that you're competent in what you do,
56:01
but you're fun. You, you make it easy to navigate the things that frankly,
56:06
most people don't want to spend any time on and just actively resist. And it's on the mining side,
56:12
the legal side, the tax side, the financial planning side, the custody side, whatever it is,
56:16
It can just feel like a bear to go through those aspects of it, especially if you're new to the space. That barrier can be enough to dissuade you from really going deep into it.
56:29
I think having a team that not only talks with each other and understands how to work with one
56:34
another, but is enjoyable to be around and just genuinely good people that you want to spend time
56:39
with makes the whole process easier, more fun, more fruitful. It makes you want to get to all
56:47
the benefits and not just avoid the work that it takes to get there. So I'm, you know, from the
56:52
bottom of my heart, just appreciative to know you guys and glad that I'm not working with people that
56:57
I can't wait to get off a call from because they're just so dry and boring.
57:02
Very well said.
57:03
Thanks, man.
57:04
I appreciate that.
57:05
It's mutual.
57:06
I mean, even when some of us travel to your town and they don't even come and say hi,
57:11
I mean, that means a lot that you say that.
57:15
Still friends.
57:16
Still friends.
57:16
I don't think that's happened.
57:18
I don't think.
57:19
But if that has happened, I'm sure it was an honest mistake.
57:23
That we'll never let anyone...
57:24
I'm not going to blast Wyatt on his own podcast.
57:27
I've said what I needed to say.
57:34
It'll be a fun running joke, though,
57:36
when Bitcoin's at a million
57:37
and we'll still be able to give you
57:39
some crap about that.
57:41
So it's good.
57:43
All right, gents.
57:44
So that was fun.
57:46
Bo, how can people get in touch with you?
57:49
Why it always does this to you?
57:50
All right, what's your last question?
57:52
You have a funny question.
57:54
I'm sorry.
57:54
I was making the signal.
58:00
Go ahead.
58:00
I don't have anything after this.
58:02
You guys are good.
58:03
Another hour.
58:04
No, I'm just curious, because I'm trying to suss out.
58:09
This is high-level mining.
58:11
I'm just curious in your opinion on the biggest publicly traded miners transitioning to,
58:18
there's all this conversation on hash rate dropping and what that means for the mining
58:23
industry long-term.
58:24
I'm just curious in your thoughts and how you're seeing the industry kind of evolving in real time here.
58:30
Well, one, I'll say that the largest players pivoting to something else is a benefit for everybody who stays behind.
58:37
So that's the first thing.
58:39
The second thing is, and I don't want to spend, you know, we could have a whole podcast just on this.
58:44
But I'll say the incentives of specifically public companies are to maximize shareholder value.
58:51
And in fact it a fiduciary requirement that if they know that they can pursue something that is either higher enterprise value generating higher income generating that if they don pursue that and they have the ability to that essentially a risk to them being still part of the company after enough board meetings where they ignore that guidance and so the whole ai trend is basically just recognizing
59:15
that there is a higher value that you can get out of a megawatt in many cases and that is by
59:22
switching that capacity to an ai use case and they can't ignore that like there there's no way
59:29
especially when you're guided by quarterly reports to ignore that for very long, especially if you've
59:36
got a really or a relatively easy vehicle to pivot that capacity. And so that's a big trend that I
59:43
see only continuing to accelerate. It's also just much more capital availability for that trend
59:50
than for Bitcoin mining specifically right now, which again, you can look at that as a poor us
59:56
Bitcoin miners who are focused on Bitcoin. Nobody wants to give us capital compared to the AI
1:00:01
companies. But I'm very much a fan of the blood in the streets analogy where everybody's looking
1:00:08
one way. You should probably be looking the other way or at least examining and investigating.
1:00:14
Like, is there still something here? Is there fundamentally something that's changed about the
1:00:20
mining industry that makes it unattractive? Or is it just because all of the hype and attention has
1:00:24
gone somewhere else. And I'm very much of the school of belief that the best time to be allocating
1:00:31
to something is when it's not in vogue, when it's not in the media. And that's when we've been able
1:00:36
to get our best deals on facilities, on acquisitions, on equipment, everything good that I can point to
1:00:43
where we've really got a great entry point on some kind of asset has come when most people weren't
1:00:49
paying attention to it or it was unloved. And then only in the fullness of time after a few years,
1:00:54
was it revealed that we were right to hold true to that position and be buying when others were
1:00:59
selling. So I will just say, specifically for people who are looking at one or the other,
1:01:06
it's very challenging to find a scalable, repeatable modular vehicle within the AI space
1:01:13
where you can get all of the benefits that you can get through hosted Bitcoin mining.
1:01:17
it's cool for its own reasons and i'm fully on board with aiifying your life and business to
1:01:23
get the most efficiency and leverage on your time but as it relates to deploying capital
1:01:28
if you have a long-term view on bitcoin i think the mining is still the best if not one of the
1:01:34
best vehicles that you can be deploying into to get that long-term benefit and is really just
1:01:39
to separate the two, you know, AI is very much upside speculation and kind of like generating
1:01:48
the most economic value per unit of compute possible and is very much an upside driven play.
1:01:56
Bitcoin mining is and I think always has been a savings driven play. How can I allocate long term
1:02:02
to the best asset in the most efficient, most tax efficient way possible that creates the bedrock
1:02:08
for my financial strategy. And you can do a barbell. I mean, go play in the AI public markets
1:02:15
for the upside. Don't be surprised if at some point that bubble corrects a little bit. Not that
1:02:20
it's not useful and going to be a major theme, but it's hard to guess when the trend might change a
1:02:31
little bit And I think Bitcoin mining is comparatively very undervalued at this point and very underappreciated And so I love to be in the underappreciated spaces and just be patient and treat the upside plays as kind of smaller bets
1:02:48
Awesome.
1:02:49
No, thank you for that overview.
1:02:51
I won't be getting rid of my ASICs for GPUs
1:02:54
anytime here soon.
1:02:55
And thank you for what you do, securing the network.
1:02:59
Yeah.
1:03:00
Thank you, Bo.
1:03:01
All right, Bo.
1:03:01
If somebody is listening to this and they have clients
1:03:04
that they want to refer over to you all?
1:03:07
Or if someone sent this to a client,
1:03:10
how can they get in touch with Abundant
1:03:12
and get some ASICs online with you all?
1:03:16
Well, two things, because you said the word referral.
1:03:18
The easiest way for someone to find us
1:03:21
is AbundantMinds.com.
1:03:23
There's a Get Started button on the website
1:03:25
and you can book a call with me or a member of my team
1:03:28
to see if mining could be a fit for you.
1:03:30
And then because this is specifically
1:03:32
for people in financial services
1:03:34
and people that likely have networks of people could be interested in this.
1:03:38
We do have a referral program that we've been kind of shadow operating over the last year
1:03:44
and really refining.
1:03:45
And we're doing a much more dedicated launch here in the very near future.
1:03:49
That is AbundantMinds.com forward slash referral, where you can sign up, get your own referral
1:03:55
link and actually get a fee for anybody who ends up using your link to purchase an ASIC.
1:04:01
And so that originally was just because we had clients who liked what we did and wanted to participate in getting some benefit for bringing friends on board.
1:04:11
And then as we worked more with people in financial services, wealth management, just have generally really strong networks, they wanted to see how they could participate as well without necessarily having to apply for a job at Abundant Minds.
1:04:27
So that is another avenue for people to, even if it's not a fit for you, or you just think that it could be useful for someone else, get involved and be able to share resources with people.
1:04:38
Beautiful.
1:04:39
Well, this was fun, boys.
1:04:41
Thank you all for taking the time on a Tuesday.
1:04:43
Awesome.
1:04:44
Yeah, thanks, Bo.
1:04:44
Appreciate it.
1:04:46
You guys are the best.
1:04:46
Appreciate you.
1:04:48
Talk to you all soon.
1:04:49
Hey, we appreciate you joining us.
1:04:56
And a big thank you to Bo Turner from Abundant Minds for coming on.
1:04:59
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