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Speed, Symbolism, and Sovereignty: How Grand Prix Racing Became a Battleground of Nationalism in the 1930s · BREAK/FIX the Motorsports & Vehicle Enthusiast Variety Show

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Brake Fix's History of Motorsports series is brought to you in part
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by the International Motor Racing Research Center, as well as the
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Society of Automotive Historians, the Watkins Glen Area Chamber of
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Commerce, and the Argettsinger family.
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Politicizing Grand Prix Racing in the 1930s Germany and Great
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Britain by Krathen Wurth.
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Catherine Wirth is a graduate student in history at the
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University of Western Australia.
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Following her master's research at the University of Edinburgh on the banal
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and natural involvement of politics historically in the Olympic movement, Ms.
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Wirth's current research traces the relationship of politics
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and nationalism in Formula One and its racing predecessors.
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Her presentation will analyze the 1930s through the lens of Grand Prix racing
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and the aspirations to race at that level in Germany and Great Britain, addressing
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how motor racing became increasingly connected to politics and nationalism,
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showcasing the complex relationship between Germany and Britain at that time.
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Ms.
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Wirth's discussion will highlight the British and German perspectives and usages
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of motor racing in the 1930s as motor racing became entangled with the politics
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and rising tensions of the period.
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Speed became the marker of quote, civilization in Europe,
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a power Germany possessed, and one that Great Britain envied.
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Our next speaker is coming to us from Western Australia, Catherine Wirth.
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I'm Catherine Wirth.
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Firstly, thank you to the International Motor Racing Research Center for
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organizing this symposium and making it possible for me to present via Zoom today.
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I would like to begin today's presentation with a quote from Professor A.
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M.
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Lear's article in the British Racing Driver Club's magazine,
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Speed, in August of 1935.
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Speed is important, not for its own sake, because it is
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a very basis of civilization.
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This statement addresses key themes of the 1930s I would like to discuss and unpack.
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The correlation between speed and civilization and how nation states use
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speed is represented in Grand Prix racing to showcase fidelity and dominance.
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in international politics and sport, particularly from 1933 through to 1939.
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So how does Lowe define the relationship between civilization and speed?
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From Lowe's perspective, civilization meant the spreading of knowledge and
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humane ideas across distances quickly.
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Speed was rapid transport, particularly that of cars, which
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would enable people and ideas to move.
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Alternatively, arising out of this comment, my research will
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argue that a nation's level of civilization rested on the ability to
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manufacture the world's fastest cars.
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Speed was the possession of Grand Prix cars and civilization
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was victory in these events.
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As motor racing is a sport that compares speeds between nations,
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a nation's level of technological civilization could be ranked.
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The structure of the presentation will begin with analyzing politics
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and nationalism in motor racing occurring in Nazi Germany.
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The silver arrows of Mercedes Benz and Auto Union will be discussed, as well as
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the symbolism of the car for the regime.
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The hero narrative and legacy of Auto Union driver, Bernard
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Rosa, will also be considered.
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Following from this, the focus will shift to Britain in the periods, a
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nation with no car and no funding to race at Grand Prix level.
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This section six Explore Way Britain did not invest in motor racing considering
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members of the racing community saw speed as a marker for civilization.
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The final section follows the relationship between Britain and Germany
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in the late 1930s and motor racing.
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The collision of angler general relations be showcased.
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The 1938 Donnington Grand Prix, the life of British Mercedes-Benz
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driver, Richard Seaman.
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And the calls for an English order.
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Em.
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The sources for this research primarily come from Britain and the
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British murdering press, and a few German sources are also included.
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On the 11th of February, 1933, during the opening addresses for the
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International Automobile and Motorcycle Exhibition, Adolf Hitler stated his
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intentions to align the automobile industry with aviation, to reduce the
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tax burden of the automotive sector, create a highway system, and promote
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German automobile sporting events.
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Occurring 12 days following Hitler's appointment as Chancellor of Germany,
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this speech became a turning point in Germany's commitment to automobilism
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and the rise of the Silver Arrows.
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The seriousness of motor racing for the Nazi government can be seen through
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the centralization of racing under the National Socialist Motor Corps, or NSKK.
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This enabled a controlled and unified racing team.
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This did also create militaristic ties to racing.
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One example is the paramilitary rank Hellbent Drivers.
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Furthermore, the Nazi government was involved with subsidizing Mercedes
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Benz and Auto Union from 1933 onwards.
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In a period following the Great Depression and war debt that Germany
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had, to provide any money to a racing team seems quite an expense to justify.
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Other countries that also fund their teams, including fascist Italy,
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and reports include the French government sponsoring their teams
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in the later half of the 1930s.
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There are numerous factors, including commercial policies that can explain
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this expense, but for my research, I'm interested in the nationals aspect.
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The drivers in the cars became symbols of modernity and success for
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a new Germany Hitler was creating.
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International competition created proof of Nazi superiority on the motoring front.
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The silver arrows and the racing team through extensive propaganda were
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a vision of a modern Nazi Germany.
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However, this creates a problem due to the contradicting nature
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of Nazi ideology and modernity.
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To put succinctly, Nazism was a political ideology in Germany
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during the 1930s, which proclaimed the superiority of the Aryan race.
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Associated with the Volkgemeinschaft, or people's community, was the slogan
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Blut und Beutin, or blood and soil.
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This romanticized the idea of the peasant farmer and a return to the land.
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This looking backwards ideology is contrasted though by the
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motorization policies and the modernity the cars represent in it.
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Careful reframing and stressing of the historical legacy of the car in Germany
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aided in bridging this discrepancy.
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Unfortunately, I cannot cover the full extent of this complex
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relationship in today's presentation.
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So the silver arrows were a key symbol of Nazi German pride,
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modernity, and nationalism.
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In the British motor magazine, Motorsport, they associated the
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victories of the Germans of racing cars.
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For Germany's turn to motorization under Hitler, the Silver Allies
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became the pinnacle of the German automotive industry.
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The German racing teams, it was suggested by Motorsport, were run
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principally to raise the prestige and to demonstrate the power, efficiency and
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strength of Germany all over the world.
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In international sport, the setting enables one nation to compare
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itself against other nations.
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For motor sport, not only could they compare the sport craft of racing, but
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also the technology held by each nation.
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This connection between the silver arrows, German identity, and
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victory was quickly established and propagandized to the German public.
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So the Nazi government, motorizing, provided a bounty of propaganda.
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The racing successes and its reflected glory, all of which were broadcast to the
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nation on state provided radios, screened in films, and printed in the news.
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According to Neil Bazcombe, Adolf Hermann, the corpse Fuhrer for the NSKK,
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took every opportunity to herald the country's dominance at the Grand Prix,
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as he believed racing is and always will be the highest embodiment of motorsport,
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and that's the highest achievement of the nation in international competition.
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One example of symbolism with silver arrows and Nazi German
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nationalism is the presentation of the cars at the International
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Automobile and Motorcycle Exhibition.
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They are metallic emblems of progress which were encased in a pageantry to
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highlight German ingenuity and success.
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On the slide is an advertisement for the exhibition in Motorsport
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from February of 1935.
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Behind the landscapes and landmarks of Berlin is one of the landscape record
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cars towering above the cityscape.
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The car is emerging from the capital, representing the new future emerging
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from the political center of Germany.
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As reported in the Times, these exhibitions are not international,
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but highlight the German first class craftsmanship and inventiveness.
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On this slide is an image of the Mercedes Benz Grand Prix car at
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the 1935 International Automobile and Motorcycle Show, displayed
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in the Fall of Seine exhibition.
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The car is situated between two pillars, which on the walls are
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plaques detailing the successes of the car with the insignia of the NSPK.
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Below the car is a laurel wreath, which is an ancient Greek symbol for
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triumph, and positioned above the car is the Imperial Eagle of Germany,
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with the swastika and its talons.
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The foreground shows lights which are reminiscent of fireballs, and although
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not shown from this angle, there are guards surrounding the vehicle.
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The staging, according to Julia Grossberger, generates a sense that the
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cars are meant to be viewed as objects of veneration, not for inspection.
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The light of the Holophane combines a museum with a hero's shrine.
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The quasi spherical elements of the wreaths, imperial eagle lights, plaque,
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and honor guards provide the appearance that the cars are lying in state.
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These cars are transformed into symbols of German greatness and superiority.
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So given this heroic staging of the cars, the drivers also had to match
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those qualities and be the right character to drive Germany to victory.
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The German racing drivers became part of a new socio cultural
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class, the sporting celebrity.
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They were praised for their heroism and willingness to
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sacrifice oneself for the nation.
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A young driver school had been set up to foster German talent rather than force
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German teams to hire foreign drivers.
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This shows an aspiration of a national team in which the driver identity
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matches the identity of manufacturer.
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However, as we mentioned later with Richard Seaman, this cohesive national
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identity could be relegated as driver talent may have been more important.
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So of all the German drivers in this period, Chris Nixon comments, Bernard
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Rosemeyer was probably the most used driver by the Nazi government.
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However, why was Rosemeyer used for compared to other drivers?
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What was the appeal of Rosemeyer for the Nazi regime?
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An explanation is the hero narrative that was easily constructed by Rosemeyer.
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He came from humble origins to the 1936 European Drivers Champion.
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He was a successful and talented racer, but at the same time suited
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the mould of what a German athlete and a German male should strive to be.
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We know the phrase, heroes are created for when they are required,
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and for post WWI Germany and a new government, heroes were needed.
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For Nazi Germany, a hero needed to be physically fit,
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mentally strong, and successful.
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The horrors of the First World War saw men returning home with
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shell shock and war wounds.
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Thus, Reisheim needed to represent a new Germany, one that was both physically
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and mentally fit, withstand modernity, and the possible horrors associated
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with a modern to illogical war.
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The creation of male heroes like Rosemeyer were credited with the will and the
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resolve that gave him the ability to use his car as a weapon in battle.
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Rosemeyer symbolized a new era for Germany.
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His victories in America and in Europe were seen as tangible proofs
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of a rise of a new, modern Germany.
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His death on the 28th of January, 1938, during a landslide record
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attempt, provided an important propaganda spectacle for the regime.
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A soldier doing his utmost to represent the honour and glory of Germany.
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His death was treated like a period of mourning.
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Unlike most years, there was no procession of the cars through
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Berlin prior to the motor show in respect to Brozmaier's death.
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His death was reframed in every aspect.
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It was not a full hearty speed test.
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Instead, as Fritz Tod, the director of the construction of the Autobahn
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status, he died as a soldier in the exercise of his duty.
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According to a report in Motorsport, Hitler referred in his speech to
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the national loss sustained by the death of this great driver.
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Neil Baskin Pilate's Rosemart was even likened to Siegfried, the dragon
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slaying hero of German mythology.
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Even in death, Rosenstein's fatal accident was transformed and mythicized
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into a hero and soldier narrative.
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Now, in Britain, on the other hand, the racing community desired to have a car
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that could race against the silver arrows.
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They believed Britain should and needed to develop a racing team to
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uphold British nationalism abroad.
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The success of Napier in the pre war periods and in the victories of the
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Bentley boys in the 1920s reflected a historical precedent of British
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ability to produce winning cars.
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Unfortunately, British manufacturers could not produce a car suitable to compete
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within the regulations for the 1930s.
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The amateurism of the Bentley Boys and the Napier Drivers could
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explain part of the setback.
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Amateurism was this belief in fair play and that sport should
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not involve material gain.
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This, combined with the financial issues of becoming a driver, meant
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that racing in Britain was restricted to those who could afford it and
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had time to participate in it.
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This was completely different to Germany, where in Germany, the
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drivers were selected because of talent and weren't paid to drive.
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For the motoring press, the British government were
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responsible for Britain's failings.
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In motorsport, they believed there was an assured popularity to motor racing
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among the general public of Great Britain, but the opposition by the
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powers that be inhibited the ability for motor racing to become a national sport.
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The government had not provided funding for racing, nor has seen
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the House of Lords supported it.
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While it is unlikely that there was an assured popularity to the sport in
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Britain, given its limited attention in the mainstream press, there does seem
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to be a lack of understanding in what motor racing could offer the nation.
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The British government, from the perspective of the press,
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Did not understand the prestige motor racing could offer Britain.
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Following the 1938 Donington Grand Prix, it was reported in Speeds that it has
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apparently confirmed to many people that a successful Grand Prix racing team of
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cars and drivers can do much to enhance the prestige of any country and thereby
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influence that country internationally.
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So as has been discussed, nationalism and politics were becoming part of
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Grand Prix racing in the periods.
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This section will now explore the interaction between Germany
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and Britain in motor racing.
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Richard John Betty Seaman was a British driver who raced for the
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Mercedes Benz team from 1937 to 1939.
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Given the previous discussion on creating a driver academy in Germany,
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and they want to have German drivers racing German cars, it's curious why the
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German team would agree to hire Seaman.
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Whether it's solely be his talent, it remains unknown.
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Seaman's most successful moment was winning the 1938 German Grand Prix.
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This was the first time a British driver had won a continental Grand Prix since
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Manchester Henry Seagrave in 1923.
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Evidence of his British identity was seen through his English
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green helmet and radiatic ring.
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Frequently stated by Simmons wife and friends was that he resisted the idea
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that politics was involved in motor racing, but as will be shown, this was
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impossible given the climate of the times.
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Tensions between Britain and Germany over Czechoslovakia, also known as the Munich
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crisis in 1938, led to the postponement of the 1938 Donington Grand Prix, which was
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meant to be held on the 1st of October.
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This event produced a situation in which drivers had to acknowledge the
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involvement of politics in sport.
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Both the Mercedes Benz and Auto Union teams had stayed until
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the very last possible chance.
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On reflection in Motorsport, the correspondent called Auslander States.
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The Munich crisis of September last year showed us how the German racing teams
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were determined to carry on to the very last moments, for they only departed from
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Donington when war was really imminent.
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The Munich Crisis highlights the driver's opinions on motor racing and the beliefs
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of remaining apolitical in sports.
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However, there was a mounting sense that motor racing could not, as
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they believed, remain apolitical or even continue to occur.
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During Seaman's speech to the Royal Automobile Club in London, prior to the
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Donington Grand Prix, he stated that he is frequently asked why he races German car.
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Aside from love of sport, he states, Motor racing knows no frontiers, and
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it would be a calamity if the political situation interfered with that.
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This was at a cheers from both the German and British racing drivers.
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Unfortunately, politics often naturally becomes involved in sport,
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regardless of athlete desires.
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On March 15, 1939, German troops crossed the Czechoslovak
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border and occupied Prague.
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The mounting political tensions in Germany made Simon realize
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that sport was incapable of being kept separate from politics.
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As recounted by Mr Neubauer, the team manager for Mercedes Benz, Simon was
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finding it difficult as an Englishman to carry on working for a German firm.
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Seaman recalled the previous motor show in which, at Hitler's request,
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the teams had to parade the racing cars at the Reich Chancellery
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and shake the hand of the Führer.
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For Seaman, he could hear Stuart Field Hitler's words about the fearless
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racing drivers who risked their lives not just for the love of the
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sport, but for the honor of Germany.
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As politics of the 20th Cyprule from sport, Seaman consulted Lord
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Howe, the president of the British Racing Drivers Club, who himself
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conferred with several people in government, parliament, and business.
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Lord Howe's response was that any personal contact with Germany
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was valuable, and she maintained.
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Eventually, with the Anglo French Guarantee of Poland, and the German
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repudiation of the Anglo German Naval Agreement, Simon wrote to Lord Howe,
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As I now hear that Anglo German and Franco German sporting events are
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either forbidden or frowned upon by the authorities, I am naturally wondering
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if the time has not come when I ought to give up driving for Mercedes.
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Given the tone of the letters, Simon understood the typical situation.
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In the final letter from Seaman, there was a sense of disillusionment and not wanting
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to do Hitler's racing bidding anymore.
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Unfortunately, we'll never know if Seaman was prepared to leave the team as he
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died at the 1939 Belgium Grand Prix.
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He might not need to give up his Grand Prix dreams if there
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was an English alternion.
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Reported in a biography written by fellow racer and friend, Prince Choula Jacopon,
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Simon was driving a German car for the joys of handling the finest racing
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machines, exiting, and also to add to his own personal glory as he waited in
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vain for a British Grand Prix challenger.
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The British racing community wanted a car to match the Silver Arrows.
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They saw Germain taking the sport seriously and seeing its
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value for national prestige.
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For example, this article at Motorsport on the slide asks for an English Auto Ian.
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It calls for a coordinated effort of British manufacturers to follow in Auto
17:02
Ian's footsteps and unite under one team.
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Prestige in comparison to other nations, especially in fields related
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to technology, would show superiority.
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When reported from speed states, perhaps if it was seen that in would losing
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her laurels in the records fields, it would wake us up to the fact that
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in these days we cannot afford to ignore any form of achievement upon
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Rich rests some sort of prestige.
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These calls on a British motor racing community highlight the
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failures of British racing industry, a performance performances order.
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Him also spoke to the magazine, the Murder between November, 1938
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and January of 1939 regarding British bro pre racing prostates.
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In the letter titled The Opinion of Mr.
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Werner, the Director of Auto Union, on the question of building British
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racing cars dealt with in the magazine The Motor, he regrets that
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Britain has not been represented at a Grand Prix, for constructing
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racing cars is, as Werner considers, the foremost of his national duties.
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At one point he states, in the racing sport, not only the chivalrous combat
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between man and man is decisive, but of equal importance are his helpers
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and his tool, the racing car, back of which must stand the intellectual and
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physical efficiency of the nation.
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This could possibly link back to the discussion on Rosemeyer
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needing to physically and mentally fit the challenges of modernity.
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Given that Germany did have a successful racing team, were
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they challenging Britain's efficiency in a motorized conflict?
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This communication between Order Union and the British press does
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raise the question of motive.
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For the British press, they might have been seeking advice on the premier
18:32
racing teams in the hopes of eventually racing against them and maybe beating.
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But the benefits from Order Union seem unclear.
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Another assumption can be that having a British racing team, it would be
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another team for Germany to beat.
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After years of civil arid dominance, other nations were unable to keep up.
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Having another team to assert dominance over would add to the prestige
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and national pride in Germany.
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While politics did interfere with the running of the Grand
18:55
Prix, the drivers and teams saw a policy of no politics in sport.
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This aspiration seems hypocritical, especially from the Silver
19:02
Arrows, who from the past years had been involved in Hitler's
19:05
motorization plans and propaganda.
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It does raise the question of choice though, did the Silver Arrows want
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to be involved in politics and the nationalistic propaganda of the regime, or
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merely race cars for the joys of racing?
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Motor racing did not occur in a vacuum, independent of the social, political, or
19:21
cultural changes occurring in the 1930s.
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Rather, it was reshaped and influenced by the climate of the times.
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It was not only the sport itself, but the fans, racing community,
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and drivers, which also adapted to the shifting nature of the sport.
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As the perceptual civilization rested on speeds, motor racing in the 1930s
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became entangled with politics and the rising tensions of the periods.
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And that concludes our presentation for today.
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I just wanted to thank once again, the International Motor Racing Research
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Center and for organizing symposium, making it possible for me to present
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also to Silverstone Interactive Museum and Archives, their research and
19:55
archives, and obviously to my professor.
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David Barry, and for further information or for references or questions,
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please feel free to contact me.
20:03
Thank you, Katie.
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A very nice analysis interpretation.
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Would your analysis interpretation shifted if you had looked at it more
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on the comparing with the French or the Italians rather than Great Britain?
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I think the Italians were quite similar to Nazi Germany.
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I think it might've been more, the British and French might've
20:23
experienced something quite similar.
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My research doesn't extend to those nations just because
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of language difficulties.
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And I thought it's quite interesting, especially with Germany and Britain
20:32
before the second world war, with just the rise of like different industries.
20:36
Ideally, it'd be fantastic to have a look at all of the countries and seeing how
20:39
they kind of interact with each other.
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Between France and Italy, there was some events where the French did
20:47
ban the Italians from racing, which I think was a bit more than what
20:50
happened between Germany and Britain.
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Was Richard Seaman a spy?
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Maybe.
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I we can't find his personal face.
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It'd be a pretty cool story.
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I do know that there was, for example, British motorcyclists who were part
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of the war office racing in Germany up until the start of the second world war.
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I guess they're kind of more spy ish.
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This is the thing with these sources is that we never know the full extent
21:14
of his background and everything.
21:16
An interesting presentation about the pre war British versus Germany.
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I wonder what you'd comment about the post war BRM fiasco compared to the
21:26
resurgence of Mercedes after the war.
21:28
Was that a parallel kind of situation?
21:31
I mean, I haven't really looked in the post war period at the moment.
21:34
This is just one chapter in my PhD thesis.
21:37
I mean, it'd be an interesting thing to look at.
21:40
So it's something different to look into.
21:42
Obviously, German identity changed post war with the divide between East and West.
21:48
So that kind of taken a bit of a, and different political opinions.
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I don't really know, but I'm happy to look into it because
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it does sound quite fascinating.
21:54
I actually was doing a lot of research on French Grand Prix
21:57
driving in the interwar period.
21:59
So I'm so excited to hear more about the German perspective.
22:03
In your research, were you finding that Auto Union and Mercedes were the
22:07
high ups real believers in the NSKK and Nazi ideology or were they kind
22:12
of doing it because they wanted the money that Hitler had on the table?
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Do you have any sense of what their feeling was about that?
22:18
I think it was a bit of both.
22:19
From the sources that I read, the money really wasn't that much
22:23
compared to what they needed.
22:24
I did a lot more looking at Auto Union rather than Mercedes, because
22:28
the RFT books are Mercedes written.
22:30
So I did look a lot, I went to the Auto Union archives and stuff in Germany.
22:34
I think there is a belief in it and I think it's more
22:37
accommodating to the regime.
22:38
They do offer like their workers time to go to like the
22:41
rallies and things like that.
22:43
And I do think they do see it as nationalistic, and I don't know if
22:46
it's nationalistic in related to narcissism or nationalistic as related
22:50
to pride in Germany and sort of the rise of German motor racing, especially
22:56
with like the invention of the car, like showing that's progression.
22:59
You'd never know if they're fully supported the Nazi regime, or
23:02
they're just kind of doing it.
23:04
There are certain drivers, and I think a lot of them were more
23:07
just playing the system, just trying to make the most of it.
23:11
Especially, I get that feeling with Hans Stucke a bit.
23:14
I think he's kind of just playing the political power
23:17
to kind of get what he wants.
23:18
I mean, Richard Seaman really wasn't that supportive of Nazism.
23:21
He was more just, I'm here to race.
23:24
Yeah, you can never really know, but I do think it's more pride and
23:27
nationalism in Germany rather than supporting fully the Nazi regime.
23:31
And I think it would be those in the NSKK that were more like
23:35
supportive of Nazism and seeing that.
23:38
That's probably the best way I could explain it, but it is definitely
23:40
something quite interesting to explore.
23:42
Very nice presentation.
23:44
Could it be said that the British pursued aircraft development through the Schneider
23:48
Cup and the Supermarine Company, which led to the development of the Spitfire, which
23:52
might even have been more significant than what the Germans were doing?
23:55
I think that is a possibility.
23:57
I think there might have just been, yeah, looking elsewhere.
24:00
Rather than focusing on motor racing, you look at like the
24:03
automobile industry in Britain.
24:04
It's still kind of increasing in that period.
24:07
It's just developing those technologies.
24:09
I don't know how the British government were kind of dealing with post Great
24:13
Depression, preparing for a future war.
24:15
They just didn't have the time to develop a racing car and defend
24:19
landscape record, but they wanted to focus on more, more preparation, more
24:23
about the people of Britain rather than a sport, which is fair enough.
24:27
I think they just had other things to, which are a high priority to maintain in
24:31
that society rather than build a fast car.
24:34
So, fabulous work.
24:35
It stimulates way too many questions, but I'll restrain myself to one.
24:40
Bring your analytical focus to the present day.
24:43
We suspect that Formula One would say it's a transnational enterprise now.
24:48
And yet, of course, drivers are identified by their nationalities.
24:51
We hear the national anthems, you know, but on the third hand, of
24:54
course, these are corporations are all globe spanning, not necessarily
24:59
identified by the nation state.
25:01
So, a simple question would be, What is the place of nationalism
25:05
in Formula One racing today?
25:07
That is the entirety of my thesis.
25:09
I'm looking at nationalism is a part of Formula One.
25:13
And even with this globalization and transnational guys, the very heart of
25:19
any kind of sport or anything in society, we do have an attachment to the nation
25:23
and we do attach nationalism to it.
25:25
And so my research, my PhD thesis does start, so I'm actually starting pre First
25:30
World War, and I go up to the present day, is the goal with different case studies.
25:35
So even the recent case studies, yeah, we've got this massive sort of traveling
25:39
circus of Formula One going to these different countries and different cities.
25:43
But there is nationalism.
25:44
Like you look at the Tifosi, you look at the people who support
25:47
Saffron's fans from that side.
25:49
You look at the British Grand Prix.
25:51
There is nationalism.
25:52
And I mean, even if we're just flagging it with the national
25:55
anthem or the flags or the colors.
25:57
It is still nationalism getting printed.
25:59
And I always get reminded of Michael Billy's Spanish Nationalism
26:03
and this idea of like the flag.
26:04
Even if it's just silently in the building, it is still reminding
26:08
us that we belong to a nation.
26:10
And we know that that's a nation, we know that we've got our own nation.
26:13
So I do think Formula One is nationalistic and it tries to tender
26:18
to Islam and it will always be involved in nationalism and politics, it's
26:22
the nature of sport and Formula One.
26:24
That's my goal for my research for my PhD.
26:27
So it's a few more chapters to go till we get to that point in time.
26:30
It's fascinating.
26:32
Anyone else?
26:32
Okay.
26:33
Thank you very much, Katie.
26:35
Thank you so much.
26:35
Thank you.
26:35
And we look forward to hearing from you, uh, in the future,
26:39
the symposium or your writings.
26:41
Please keep in touch with us and we'll keep in touch with you.
26:43
Yeah, definitely.
26:44
Please feel free to contact me with any email.
26:46
Hearing you talk and watching you.
26:48
I've gotten two emails from members at home asking how to contact you.
26:52
So.
26:53
Yeah.
26:53
Happy to discuss anything related to motor racing and national.
26:56
All right.
26:56
They're both racing guys.
26:58
All right.
26:58
Thanks again, Katie.
26:59
You take care.
27:00
Bye.
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