Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to James Lark about his choice of Delta & the Bannermen (3/3)

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Talks to James Lark about his choice of Delta & the Bannermen (3/3) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

0:22
None Hamster with a blunt pen knife
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for doing quicker, quicker, quicker.
0:40
Welcome back to our Hamster with a Blunt Pen Knife the Doctor Who
0:44
Commentary Podcast. I am having a truly delightful
0:48
evening today doing Mr. James Larks very first episode
0:53
commentary podcast. James, how are you?
0:56
I am very well and having a fantastic evening as well
1:00
because who wouldn't be watching Delta from the Bannerman?
1:03
Are you feeling the love from this story?
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I really am. I think it's got so much heart.
1:10
And well, I was about to say, and has Doctor Who not had
1:14
heart? Of course he has.
1:15
Of course he has. I don't think he's ever hit this
1:17
sort of tone before, though. No, this isn't this is a new
1:20
tone. And is it fair to say it doesn't
1:26
quite hit this tone again until 2005?
1:30
I think so. This has got a a a pretty new
1:34
WHO sensibility in a lot of ways, not just the Welsh thing.
1:38
An impressive guest cast. It's set in Wales.
1:41
There is a stress on romance and emotion.
1:46
Yes, I think this very much feels like Rusty Davis's Doctor
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Who. Yeah, I think it does.
1:50
And and a script that allows its characters.
1:53
A chance to do character stuff and not constantly be focused on
1:58
what's happening, not, you know, responding to stuff happening.
2:01
Do you think the majority of classic Who is sort of plot
2:05
first character second? I think it probably is.
2:09
I think where you find exceptions are right at the
2:11
start of Doctor Who. Maybe not it's very first few
2:15
stories, but by the time it's into its kind of second and
2:19
third years, you've got some brilliant stories there which
2:23
are all about this and have a very pure approach to drama,
2:26
which I think you can argue it. It never quite recaptures but
2:30
maybe never wants to. I mean, I think that there was a
2:34
deliberate move away from things like the massacre and.
2:38
Shame. It's a it is a shame.
2:40
I think it's it's the most grown up Doctor whoever gets in a in a
2:45
weird kind of way. And I, you know there's part of
2:50
me remains frustrated that except in the work of Big Finish
2:55
we've not been given pure historicals since since the
2:59
1960s which is, which is something Doctor Who absolutely
3:03
could do now knew who could absolutely do that and get away
3:05
with it because people would watch it anyway.
3:08
So that's a big digression to say that Doctor Who was all
3:12
downhill from the second year onwards.
3:14
Do you know, I I went on to another podcast recently and I
3:17
had to name five things which I absolutely love about Doctor
3:20
Who. And one of the five things I
3:22
chose was Season 3, William Martin's third season.
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Yeah, yeah, he's. Got so many good stories the.
3:27
Variety, the drama, the different genres they try, the
3:31
rolling call of production, tarf and companions, you know, it's
3:36
it's quite unlike any other season of the show, I think.
3:40
But, but the the strongest points in Doctor Who's history
3:43
are where they have a there's a a producer usually with a really
3:49
strong sense of what the show ought to be, usually supported
3:55
with a really strong script editor.
3:57
And I feel like Doctor Who certainly kind of for the five
4:04
years before this has been flailing around a little
4:09
uncertainly maybe, kind of maybe the, I mean the Five Doctors
4:14
feels like maybe just a a last hurrah for knowing what it wants
4:18
to be and and celebrating its Doctor Who Ness.
4:22
And then it's taken in in all kinds of different directions
4:24
and and there's a kind of almost a, a desperation to to pull away
4:28
and do something different while there's a group of people saying
4:31
no, but it's got to be like Doctor Who and Doctor Who is
4:33
like this. Well, what do you mean it's like
4:34
this? No one can really say why, but
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they don't. Really enough.
4:39
It's the it's the moments where they don't conform to that, what
4:42
they think Doctor Who should be so like kinder and enlightenment
4:46
and snake dance. And it's it's those moments
4:49
where they strike gold in those. And they're the ones that have
4:52
aged the best. Absolutely right.
4:54
And at this point, it's just a breath of fresh air.
4:57
And I think, yeah, no, I think it's fair to say that this, you
5:02
know, Doctor has never done something like this before.
5:05
It's never done something that that is this much of A an
5:12
ensemble piece in which all of the all of the cast have got
5:14
interesting things going on and interesting you know in in which
5:18
there there are this many layers of plots I think is what I'm
5:20
trying to say. But also in a story with lots of
5:24
visual flair, with lots of musical flair it's got.
5:27
Plenty going on, I mean. It's huge confidence.
5:30
It's, it's Pacey. It's, you know, if we were to
5:32
kind of describe what we've just seen in what, 50 minutes of
5:36
television. It's moving.
5:38
It doesn't. Take a while.
5:38
There's an awful lot happened. A lot.
5:41
A lot happened. Well then the last thing I I
5:43
want to ask you about before we go into three is you just said
5:46
there's usually the producer backed up by a strong script
5:49
editor. But I think in this era of
5:52
Doctor Who, it's 80% the script editor that is driving the
5:57
direction, the tone. I think I'll you know, JNT is
6:02
very good at getting the show made, at bringing in the right
6:05
actors, but all the important stuff I think is Andrew Carmel.
6:11
I think that's right. And I think that when Doctor Who
6:13
really turns a corner at around this point, probably it's John
6:17
Nathan Turner realizing he can trust this guy and he doesn't
6:21
have to fight his script editor anymore and you suddenly feel
6:24
everything relaxed. I don't.
6:25
I mean, I think that it then cultivates, like I said before,
6:29
a brilliant atmosphere and it feels like where there are
6:34
missteps, things like the the masks in in episode one, it's
6:39
because someone's been drafted in and doesn't really get the
6:41
show. But more and more they're using
6:43
people as effects guys and costume guys and design guys.
6:46
I say guys, there are some ladies involved as well using
6:50
the term generically, but people who really care about the show,
6:54
you know, the Mike Tuckers of this world and suddenly it
6:57
starts. Or or Susan Moore and Steven
7:00
Mansfield, who clearly were just doing overtime and and not only
7:07
doing overtime, but using kind of materials, not illicitly but
7:11
using materials from Spitting Image.
7:13
Because they were they they had access to that stuff and they
7:16
were you know, they were able to use the leftovers basically.
7:18
So suddenly the show looks better than it has any right to
7:21
on its budget, because a load of people are just doing more work
7:23
than they have to. This is also the story as well
7:26
where I J&T and Andrew Carmen were dancing around each other a
7:31
bit during time in the rally in Paradise Towers.
7:34
And quite a few times JNT publicly embarrassed Andrew
7:40
Carmel on set in front of like the entire cast and crew.
7:44
And it was on location at Barry Island where he did it one last
7:48
time and Andrew Carmel went I'm done.
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And he walked away and he left Wales, went back to London and
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JNT had to ask him, no, please come back, I need you here.
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They sat down in a pub apparently for a whole afternoon
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and evening, hammered out their differences and from that point
8:07
on it was smooth sailing between the two of them.
8:10
So I think JNT. Stories like that, I feel like
8:13
JNT had just been the thing was, so many times.
8:18
He'd fallen out with so many people.
8:19
You know he didn't trust Sophie Aldridge at first, did he?
8:22
But Andrew, Andrew Carmel, he clearly really likes JNT.
8:26
And he says look what he was coping with at the time, which
8:28
was this incredible backlash, this fan backlash that is going
8:32
on at the moment. And you hear some of the stories
8:34
about the fans turning up on locations, trying to spoil
8:37
everything that's being recorded in all the fan scenes, like it
8:41
was really toxic. Well, and and and and yet he he
8:45
had no one to turn to. The people who should have been
8:47
supporting him, looking after him, were out for his blood as
8:50
well. You know the he knew the BBC
8:53
himself was the BBC Who? So who just hated him and his
8:56
programme? What a horrible place to find
8:58
yourself. And exactly the same time, he's
9:01
sort of stuck on this show that he really wants no part of
9:04
anymore because his career kind of has taken a knock because of
9:07
it. There's family members getting
9:10
seriously ill as well. So Andrew Carmel is.
9:14
He just says that I don't know how we held it together and
9:18
managed to produce a show as well as he did.
9:20
Yeah, given all the pressure that he was under, and I just
9:24
think it's wonderful that at this point two of them buried
9:27
the hatchet and then just had like 2 1/2 seasons of just
9:31
working in harmony together. It's a you can see on the
9:34
screen. It shows on the screen
9:35
absolutely does. Well, we're not going to watch
9:39
the argument, but let's watch the terror or the bound.
9:42
Of men do. You want to canvas it?
9:44
Yes, we're going to start watching in 5432 one play.
9:52
This is the episode. I'm very sad.
9:54
I can't hear the music because I think it's got lovely music in
9:57
this episode. He does a great he does a great
10:00
job. And bear in mind as well how
10:01
much music he did for this season, because of course Kev
10:05
was working on Delta when he got the phone call to say the score
10:10
for Paradise Towers hasn't worked.
10:12
Did you hear the alternate? Did you hear that?
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I heard. The alternate score, and it's a
10:15
good call and actually. Do you think, do you think, do
10:19
you think Mccullough's is better than David Snell's?
10:22
I absolutely do, yeah. I think David Snell's.
10:29
I think it feels like it comes from a different era of Doctor
10:32
Who. For a start, I I think it would
10:35
have felt pretty retrograde. Even in something like Terminus,
10:38
it's got, it's that kind of dreary quality, all atmosphere
10:42
and no pace and. What it's It is it's a lot
10:45
darker, isn't it? It's a lot darker.
10:47
But it does. But it's but it's also it's it's
10:53
it's quite morose it it doesn't capture any of the flavour of
10:59
the place. It's just you know he thinks
11:01
he's scoring a David Lynch film or something.
11:05
It doesn't fit. It doesn't match the story.
11:07
And no, I know that people argue that Kev McCulloch doesn't match
11:09
the story either. I think he does a darn good job
11:12
for the 10 days or whatever he had to write it in and I think
11:15
what he does bring it is a much more cinematic sensibility
11:20
actually. And and we we I think we
11:24
sometimes take for granted actually how epic the the McCoy
11:28
stories in particular and then you know late Colin Baker 2 that
11:31
feel because they're given a a canvas by the the musical scores
11:38
that is only just a very it's a it's a late 80s sound as opposed
11:42
to the early synthesized stuff in who it suddenly has a there's
11:47
a lot more samples in there and and it has more depth and
11:49
breadth but also composers who I feel like Keith McCullough comes
11:55
in and sort of pushes Dominic Glynn into better stuff.
12:00
I don't know how much of Kef's stuff Dominic Glynn heard but he
12:04
then goes on to write Dragonfire which is Dominic Glynn at that
12:07
point. I had some head and shoulders
12:10
above anything you've done before then and then Mark
12:13
Marquez turns up and I feel like again there's this sort of you
12:17
know Kef Mcculloch's stuff for season 25 I think is really
12:20
good. I think it's really well judged,
12:22
really interesting, but then you've got the greatest show
12:24
score comes along and so. That's gorgeous.
12:27
Go slide. Well, so by season 26, I would
12:32
argue that Marquez is the right composer for that season, that
12:35
Kef Mcculloch's stuff doesn't suit the style that the show has
12:38
evolved into, but I just think his stuff has pushed it so far
12:43
forward. I think the the music gets
12:45
better and better and better. I mean and then Doniclin gives
12:47
us survival, which is an incredible score.
12:51
So I feel like they're you've got brilliant composers working
12:54
with very little time, pushing the the envelope every single
12:58
time and put and urging each other on to do better and better
13:00
stuff. I I, I as I keep saying I don't
13:03
really have the education to talk about music.
13:06
I but I do think that McCulloch brings pace and movement.
13:12
Like, even. When there isn't any, you know.
13:15
I always feel like. Well, he gets he's.
13:17
Kicking the story along. And again, it's that the the
13:20
comic book sensibility and the pace these scripts are written
13:23
at, which isn't always delivered in the dialogue, but his music
13:26
absolutely gives it that, that, that rhythm that it needs.
13:28
And the interesting thing here is the story has pace as well.
13:32
You've married the two, and this episode three goes by like a
13:35
lick it. Does look at this.
13:36
And this is apparently McCoy just never driven a motorcycle
13:40
before and about drive them off a Cliff.
13:42
And he has got he's got glasses. On during the round.
13:44
You can see in the long what you can see in the long shots.
13:47
He's got glasses on. What a wonderful thing, though,
13:50
to go from a chase scene through Welsh countryside.
13:54
And now we've got a scene of beekeeping.
13:55
Oh, and the baby's grown again. And that is Laura Collins, who I
13:59
was in a pantomime with at university.
14:02
No. Yes.
14:03
Did you ask her about there on the Batterman?
14:05
Well it was my first time at uni and you don't go to university
14:10
talking about well you didn't in in my day anyway because you you
14:13
didn't want to risk. I remember going to the the
14:17
freshers fair and bumping into the Star Trek society and I said
14:20
is there a Doctor Who society And the guy said no, it died
14:24
with the program so you. You.
14:28
You didn't talk about Doctor Who, but we'd been doing this.
14:30
Bantamime. It was a Sherlock Holmes.
14:32
She played Lady Something or other who turned out to be
14:34
Moriarty, and I was her Butler and I may have just got to know
14:37
her well enough to to drop in a kind of a tentative Doctor Who
14:41
reference. And she said, oh, I was in
14:43
Doctor Who. Oh, well done.
14:45
And at that point I was like, right?
14:47
I need to know everything. What did you say?
14:50
This is the Queen's Hive. It's the, you know, you know the
14:54
thing when you're trying to play very cool and say Doctor, you
14:56
know, I have seen a bit of a Doctor Who and she said no, I
14:58
was in an episode of Doctor Who and I was like, well, which
15:00
which episode? And I'm not sure she could even
15:03
remember the name but she said, well it had it had Bonnie
15:06
Langford in it. So I'm straight away narrowing
15:09
it down to just, you know, six stories and and then she said I
15:13
was, I played a green alien Princess and I was like, right,
15:17
you're in Dell from the Bannerman and you did this, this
15:20
and this and this. You admitted you.
15:23
Admitted high voltage screams. And yeah, she she never spoke to
15:27
me again after that. Well, I can understand that,
15:29
don't worry. So this is all.
15:32
Very important, isn't it? We're learning about that green
15:37
stuff that she's sucking to make her grow and get older, and
15:40
obviously Billy's going to take that, so he's going to.
15:42
Become I'm not sure how. Shimmer.
15:44
Works. I know, but I do like that bit
15:47
of piano riff he does just there as he Nicks it.
15:50
It's a good piano riff. He's got a good line in.
15:53
Scene closes has Kef. I just.
15:56
I feel like that shot, the first time I watched it was like,
15:58
what? Oh, hang on, it's Billy.
15:59
Is he Is he stealing that into the banner bin?
16:04
Because I'm not quite sure how eating baby food turns to you
16:09
back. And that scene there didn't
16:12
work, that where they're all just shouting about.
16:14
The background, sorry. And the the thing, the the, the
16:17
bikes going all over the place, It's a bit confusing like.
16:20
It's a bit confused, but not as confusing as eating baby food
16:23
and turning into an alien. You haven't been eaten that,
16:26
have you, James I. Haven't, no.
16:30
It could kill you. Oh, do you know what?
16:33
In a minute. They use the honey, don't they?
16:35
To to. Attack the Bannerman.
16:37
They do. And I always find that's
16:39
slightly sad because he's got all those parts of honey
16:43
representing lots of hard work and yeah.
16:47
Now I do. This is great, the way he turns
16:50
the TARDIS into a trap. But how does the Doctor know?
16:55
He just knows. He goes stop you.
16:58
Know, I think this has been booby crap.
17:00
So this this that bumpy scene. Is he wearing spectacles here?
17:04
No. No.
17:05
So he can't. But this is the one.
17:07
This is this. He's got spectacles now and this
17:10
is the scene where they're right next to the sea front.
17:12
And I think he did just go heading for a Cliff and didn't
17:14
know where the off switch was. Look at Bonnie's face.
17:17
She's like, no. She's ready to look.
17:20
She's ready to leap out. I think this is.
17:24
You see her? That's not acting.
17:25
Look, that's it. They'll get they're going off.
17:27
I've never noticed that. Please stop this .0.
17:35
Dear, She looks a bit like what's her face from Georgia
17:39
Mildred, didn't she? In the side car?
17:41
Yes. She's got an unfortunate.
17:44
News for George. Bumping up and down the side car
17:46
because. I said this is all our lovely,
17:51
lovely characters are going to come together now.
17:53
This is so this is so Russell though, isn't it?
17:56
To have slightly comic characters trying to explain a
18:00
plot they don't understand to each other.
18:04
Yeah, think something like, what's a disparate group of
18:07
characters like Voyager, the Damned or something like that?
18:10
You know, a bunch of crazy characters coming together.
18:15
May I borrow a length of your ribbon?
18:19
I think. I think this is the sort of
18:21
thing where, you know, that type of fan thinks that Doctor Who
18:24
isn't taking itself seriously, that they're trying to trick
18:26
them to into thinking they're inside the shed with a bit of
18:29
ribbon and then the honey falls down and the bees come out.
18:32
Yeah, It's so charming, though. It's.
18:35
Charming. And it's and it's also not doing
18:38
the same thing that every other Doctor Who story before it is.
18:41
Done. Why it has?
18:42
To feel like in the early 80s, that every final episode ends
18:46
with a fire or an explosion, or, you know, it's.
18:49
Not everyone ends with honey falling from shelves.
18:53
It's fair to say this is the only climactic honey moment in
18:57
Doctor Who. There's a gorgeous line in the
18:59
Giggle novelisation which didn't make it to the screen where Mel
19:03
goes, oh don't worry, I once stopped a genocide or war fleet
19:07
with honey in Wales. Oh, Laura's turning in somebody
19:12
else. Well, she didn't have long, did
19:14
she? She didn't have long, long
19:16
enough to complain about it. Ah, this is great though the
19:19
windows slashing. Windows And how many times have
19:22
we seen these, these bannermen helmets?
19:24
That's they're the ones from Earth Shock, aren't they?
19:26
Were they in Mysterious Planet? Is it the?
19:28
Same old in mysterious planet, covered in paint and now painted
19:31
black. What about frontiers?
19:33
Is it the same ones as? Frontiers.
19:34
Oh, is it the same ones as those?
19:35
Oh no, Frontiers is the Blake's 7 helmets, isn't it?
19:37
That's right, repurposed. I do like that Delta just grabs
19:42
her gum there and takes two of them out.
19:50
That's a. Lovely shot.
19:51
Look, that's a lovely it's. What how long was that 15 second
19:54
shot where they all run into shot and deliver some.
19:56
That's the kind of pace I'm talking about.
19:58
That's the the the the pace that I think Carmel had in mind with
20:01
these these overrunning episodes.
20:03
Just it. It was meant to be.
20:05
Bam bam bam. I like to think Goronway has
20:09
been here for obviously many years making his honey with his
20:12
bees, and every now and again a time traveller or someone turns
20:15
up and he's pulled into an event.
20:17
This is why he fuck. He takes it all in his stride.
20:19
And do you think that every time someone turns up, they wreck his
20:23
honey store and he has to start again from scratch?
20:25
Oh. Bloody.
20:26
Oh, he goes. Right.
20:26
Come on, Bass, let's get. He's thinking we ever gets to
20:29
eat any of his honey. The unfortunate thing is they.
20:33
No, I doubt it. That's when the bannermen are
20:38
covered in honey. They unfortunately have to sort
20:41
of anchor their heads in a certain way, so the.
20:44
Honey falls over them. Yeah, this is great music.
20:49
So again, and he's paced it really well because we had the
20:52
kind of upbeat 50s stuff in in the previous episode.
20:56
Now there's now it's a a race against time and he's giving us
21:00
that kind of little little, little, little, little little
21:02
strings on the top with the, which is a very kind of a kind
21:07
of. Yeah, absolutely.
21:09
See now? That's how good I know it is.
21:10
I know all the cues, the bit at the end when I go into, I love
21:18
that so much. And he doesn't overuse it
21:23
either. I don't think we see enough
21:25
goats in Doctor Who, you know. We don't see enough goats in
21:27
Doctor Who. And it's whales.
21:30
There's wheels in their sheep as well.
21:32
We we don't. We don't think they'll hesitate
21:34
to shoot the goats. Well, I'm glad we stopped short
21:37
of seeing that though. But the important thing is, is
21:44
we're left with no illusion that when they turn up at the holiday
21:47
camp that they are going to kill everybody.
21:49
Yeah. So there is some jeopardy in the
21:50
climax. There's never well, we we opened
21:53
with a a scene of them killing everybody.
21:54
So I don't think we've even though they look slightly silly
21:57
and they act slightly silly. I think Don Henderson sells the
22:02
Banner Men as a as a credible threat.
22:05
But in comparison, Paradise Towers opened up with somebody
22:08
being murdered and people are murdered throughout and I didn't
22:10
feel any jeopardy in the climax of that at all.
22:13
No. Don't get me wrong, I do like
22:17
Paradise Towers a lot. I think there's a lot to it.
22:19
I, I I love Paradise Towers, but I I all I can see there is a
22:22
story that that should have that really deserved a better
22:26
production. Or a director and a writer that
22:30
were on the same page. Yeah, a lot of people are not on
22:34
the same page in that one. He's got an entire gang of
22:37
people with him now and they have to all sort of spread out
22:41
in the low end so they're all into.
22:43
Oh look, this is a. This is a again.
22:45
It's just he's creating beautiful pictures Here.
22:48
Look at all these scenes. They are like frames from a
22:50
comic strip. Oh, you silly man.
22:57
You'd have been atomized. You should have said ionized for
22:59
the for the catch phrase. Oh, this is where lollipops
23:03
playing, isn't it? Yes, And it's all.
23:07
And you know what? There is something about them
23:09
blowing up the radio. They're like killing the music.
23:12
Yeah, they they they're the ones that kill the farm.
23:15
It's real. There's genuine bullets going
23:16
there. There's bit of windows being
23:18
smashed. It's what it is, is we've seen
23:22
so many scenes of Gronway in this very beautiful tranquil
23:25
scene. They're a disruptive influence.
23:28
They're vandals. They're they the threat they are
23:31
is is a threat to our way of life.
23:33
I think that's really well communicated.
23:35
And they don't like music. And they don't like music.
23:38
What is wrong with these people? Did you see McCoy there?
23:41
Pondering the full force could take us all with it.
23:44
He's got the crook of the umbrella under his chin.
23:49
I can't believe. I know I spent most of I spent
23:51
most of Christmas Day doing that.
23:53
Doing that very expression, did you do with your?
23:55
Pudding, you say, Did you? Do with your alcohol seeded from
23:58
silver nemesis. You know, it's like.
24:00
Oh, why didn't you tell me? Yeah.
24:02
Of course I did. Of course I did once we got the
24:04
vegetables out of Christopher Christmas dinner.
24:06
Dust to dust, ashes to ashes. Oh yeah.
24:12
Oh my trouble is right. It's setting scene.
24:14
We're both Doctor Who fans, so we both, both want to play with
24:17
the Brolly, yeah. I think there might have been a
24:20
few jars to rescue there. I'm not sure.
24:22
They quite all got smashed. I think there might be some some
24:25
jars of honey in those boxes. I just.
24:27
I'm hopeful that there might be a just a few, a few of Grommie's
24:31
jars of honey leftover for you know, this adventure.
24:37
What's that you're hiding, Billy?
24:38
I'm. Not sure I'll buy this scene at
24:41
all. I had to counter if I'm not a
24:44
shimmering, but if I've got to come with you, I've got to
24:46
become one. Yeah, but why?
24:48
It's never been tried on humans before.
24:49
What do you mean? It's baby food.
24:51
You were feeding your baby skin and hair.
24:54
They're already changing. That's not normally a good
24:56
thing, Billy. No, I guess.
24:58
And really, all that changes. Is his outfit by the end.
25:01
I guess we're not supposed to read too much scientific.
25:06
This is the this is the part again.
25:08
This is what fans fans wanted everything to be kind of
25:11
scientific, kind of Christopher H Bibbid level of logical.
25:16
Or Eric Award levels of violence.
25:20
And what they're getting here is Honey and Guy eating baby food
25:24
and turning into an alien. So it doesn't, it doesn't need
25:27
to make logical sense if it makes dramatic and romantic
25:32
sense, which I think fundamentally that's the the
25:34
point of this story. I think what happens come 26 is
25:38
they managed to marry what fans want, gothic horror and things
25:41
like that and still do all the character stuff in the sweep
25:44
overs. But I'm glad that they did this.
25:47
I'm glad that we have this. It's so.
25:50
And look at the way I love, love the way Hugh Lloyd is reading
25:53
that book and he and he and he hands the the thing over without
25:56
even moving his. Eyes they paint the.
25:58
Table, This is gorgeous. They take the table and he still
26:02
owes the book. They're all finding that, and
26:04
it's that Pepsi again. Yes, it is.
26:07
Yes. Oh, doesn't Burton put the to so
26:10
he doesn't hear the the scream. He puts cotton wool in his ears.
26:13
And then he always he always murders the Doctor with the
26:16
sword. Mr. Burton, it's over.
26:19
It's over. We won.
26:21
I like aliens fighting whilst hiding behind big plastic
26:26
animals. I like a brilliant image.
26:28
Big bombastic rock score as the aliens approach.
26:32
You're right, Bonnie Length is not in this episode very much,
26:34
is she? She doesn't do anything.
26:36
No, I don't even think she gets a line.
26:38
In the climax she goes stop as the Doctor goes towards the
26:41
TARDIS thinking it's still booger trapped and that's it.
26:46
Those stings look pretty horrible as well.
26:50
I mean, this is so. Great.
26:51
It's like a an action. Sequence in a holiday camp.
26:56
It's perfect. It's what other program could do
26:59
this? The Avengers, probably.
27:03
There are there are a few, but it's it's very doctor.
27:06
Who? It wouldn't be like this though,
27:08
would it Would be set in the 50s.
27:09
No, it wouldn't be set in the 50s.
27:10
With all these crazy characters, well, they would have crazy
27:13
characters. They would.
27:13
Have crazy characters. I'm not sure they would have had
27:16
quite the same elements. Oh, my word.
27:20
McCoy running downstairs is never not brilliant.
27:23
He's described to be how great the music is right now, because
27:26
I can't. Hear it?
27:26
Just rising. Rising.
27:27
It's it's one of Kev Mcculloch's.
27:29
It's not the climax yet, but we're building towards the
27:32
climax, so it's not. And then And then we've got Kev.
27:35
He's bringing the drums whenever we cut to them.
27:39
Yeah. Boom.
27:41
Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom it.
27:43
Really. Works.
27:44
I'm so sorry. I hope you wasn't expecting a
27:48
sophisticated concession. Well, it's not a particularly
27:51
sophisticated moment in the score, but it doesn't need to
27:55
be. I think that I think he's a
27:57
really good judge of where, what, how much to place and
27:59
where to place it to really make it speak in the way that it
28:04
needs to for each scene. The cuts here as well.
28:06
Her eyes the. Squid her.
28:08
Mouth the army, I think. Finally, it sells that screaming
28:11
idea in a way that the sound effect hasn't quite, and that's
28:16
a nasty way to go. It is, but clearly it's just
28:20
walked out of shot. One explosion went off.
28:22
But never mind. There you go.
28:28
And they're all involved. As you say, they're all involved
28:31
in the in the plot, apart from the Doctor's actual companion.
28:36
Yeah, that's a shame. That is a shame.
28:39
Never mind. She could have been the scream.
28:42
She could have been. It's all she does all season.
28:50
Mr. Burton it sounds. Great Mr. Burton.
28:52
And he goes, oh, lovely. Lovely, lovely.
28:57
Oh, and a big happy ending. Love conquers all.
29:03
It's great and if you think about it that that that sequence
29:06
leading towards the climax was a a lengthy sequence, whereas
29:10
we're used in Doctor Who to to climax as being pretty swift.
29:14
In fact, it's often the most disappointing episode is the
29:16
final one the whole eras of. Doctor Who?
29:19
Really. No, not here at all.
29:21
No, and I think. I see it really well.
29:23
Other Doctor Who's story will give you a 5 minute coda like
29:26
this as well, where we say goodbye to all these characters.
29:28
Normally, we're just gone. I love the Doctor cradling that
29:32
guitar as well. But James Love has never been
29:36
known for its rationality. He looks like he's talking from
29:41
experience there. Yeah, the way he's well and
29:43
that's he does that line. It's one of the moments where he
29:46
just somehow makes endless shadows appear in his eyes like
29:50
a man who's, you know, lived. To You know what he's thinking
29:52
about, don't you? He's thinking about Margot Van
29:54
de Burgh from the Aztecs. Is that what he's thinking
29:57
about? Yeah, Kameka, Yeah, that was his
29:59
great love Lost. I think it's just Sylvester
30:02
McCoy channelling that regeneration scene.
30:05
Oh, maybe just getting sucked. Back into that.
30:09
Now this spaceship set is the same one that's he's in dragon
30:12
fire, isn't it? The Nosferatu is it.
30:16
It's the Nosferatu. They just put a couple of furry
30:18
dice in it and it becomes Glitzy's ship.
30:20
Nobody could tell they were the same.
30:23
Oh, can I do it? Do you mind?
30:25
He can, yes. Here's to the future.
30:28
Love is the answer. I love it.
30:31
I think that again, plaudits to Kef McCulloch for having the
30:36
brass neck to put lyrics into a Doctor Who soundtrack, something
30:40
that had never been done before and isn't done again.
30:46
Go on, so fill up your classes. OK, no you're you're absolutely
30:50
right. Rookie rookie omission there.
30:53
What I I guess what I meant was he's put lyrics into the
30:57
incidental music. Whereas I would say that the the
31:00
ballad is a piece of a piece of narration that becomes kind of
31:06
diegetic at various points. But it's a song and I love it
31:09
for that reason. But this isn't a song.
31:11
This is under score and that that I think having sung under
31:16
score actually shows a kind of confidence that again the, you
31:19
know, the show doesn't have until you know David Tennant's
31:21
first episode. Ricardo is not sure of
31:23
confidence. But some people would say that
31:26
confidence is misplaced. And I and I would shout them
31:29
down every time and say, you know, he brought so much to to
31:31
the program moved, he moved up to his music.
31:35
So he, you know, I, I think he's produced three decent scores for
31:39
season 24. I think he does his best work
31:40
the next season. What does he do next year?
31:44
Remember the Daleks and he does silver Nemesis.
31:46
Oh God, you know that being remembers of the Daleks where
31:49
they go Dalek hunting and it's like.
31:53
That was the coolest thing when I was a kid.
31:55
When I was a kid, it was the coolest thing, but then I wasn't
31:59
a very cool kid, so. I'm not a cool kid now, so I
32:02
don't care. He had a great line there,
32:05
Billy, he goes. Remember to feather the clutch.
32:07
You're like just he gets to be cool just before he goes,
32:11
although then he gets to say. Let's make this baby fly.
32:14
Oh look, no one of the honeys survived.
32:17
Oh, what a sweet gesture you give me.
32:19
Your only surviving jar of honey.
32:21
James, you know you're more than a collector.
32:23
You're a man of taste. Oh.
32:27
This is great. What is it?
32:28
And here comes Glee Club, the next adventure.
32:31
Oh my God, it's the Skegness Glee Club.
32:37
Oh, get some more, some more music in there.
32:39
It's just a it's just got a a joyous sensibility from Sun,
32:44
which hasn't it. I'm not talking about the
32:46
weather, but it's got a sunniness about it.
32:48
It's got a sunniness about it. It's like Doctor Who has a crisp
32:51
glass of lemonade, You know, beautiful, and finishes off with
33:01
the wink. Which is so lovely.
33:07
And it's an almost imperceptible wink as well.
33:10
It's yeah, it's great. What a.
33:13
Lovely character. How many lines does Gronwy have?
33:16
It must be about. Three.
33:18
No. But he makes quite an
33:20
impression. Doesn't.
33:20
He And yet we've all been asking ourselves who he is ever since.
33:25
But every every day I wake up and.
33:27
Say to myself. Yeah, I bet you do.
33:31
Well, he could be one of the timeless doctors now, couldn't
33:33
he? That's.
33:34
Right. It went Joe Martin and then
33:39
Gronway and then William Hartnell.
33:43
That's why he's winking. He's like, oh, I'm going to be
33:45
up to these high jinks in the future.
33:46
Am I OK? Ah, that was great.
33:51
What fun. Now I'm going to see if you've
33:54
been paying attention to the format of this podcast now and
33:57
ask you what it is we have to do before we out this episode.
34:01
Oh goodness, is it three reasons.
34:03
Yes, three reasons. One of Well, let's go back and
34:06
forth. You.
34:07
Me. You.
34:07
Me. You.
34:07
Me. I wish I'd paid attention in
34:12
advance and. I could give you 10.
34:17
That's the issue with this one. I've I've no, absolutely no
34:21
shortage of of great things about it.
34:25
OK, no, I'm going to go because I've I've been singing his
34:28
praises throughout and I feel like he's sometimes unfairly
34:31
maligned. KEF McCulloch.
34:35
I think that Kef Mcculloch's work on time in The Rani is
34:40
perfectly appropriate for that story and interesting work.
34:43
I think it's a good soundtrack. I think his work on Paradise
34:47
Towers doesn't always land in the right way, but but there's a
34:51
lot in that story that doesn't. And he's been given just over a
34:56
week to sort that soundtrack for a story which probably wasn't
35:00
making a lot of sense, you know, in the rough cut anyway.
35:03
And. You say he was working through
35:04
the night or something. He wasn't sleepy.
35:06
I think he just you know halfway through Delta in the Batman he's
35:09
gets a call. Can you do this in?
35:10
I think it was 10 days. But it's a it's a perfectly
35:15
serviceable score for one that was written in that time.
35:17
For a story that's already kind of struggling to to cohere.
35:22
I think Delton the bannerman is his first, as you say,
35:29
comfortable score. It's the first time he's on such
35:32
safe ground that I can't imagine any other Doctor Who composer
35:37
having to, certainly from that time.
35:39
But I I, you know, you could you could see Murray Gold doing it I
35:44
guess. But I I I think Jeff McCullough
35:46
was absolutely the right person to to merge those 50s sounds
35:51
with his own sound. His his own voice is very much
35:53
in there and to match it to this story, which as I keep saying,
35:59
has a a kind of modest ambition to it.
36:04
And he's able to pitch it just right in terms of not taking it
36:07
too seriously but absolutely raising the stakes, building
36:11
towards all the cliffhangers, building towards the climaxes.
36:14
And it's got a a wonderful sense of place and time.
36:18
It's got an authenticity to it, which I love.
36:23
I think any other Doctor Who composer would have the nerve to
36:26
produce a score like this, and I'm very pleased he does.
36:30
Yeah, Well then for my first one, I want to choose another
36:34
unsung member of the production team, and that is Malcolm Cole
36:39
for his idiosyncratic scripts for this.
36:44
And I do believe that he had a lot of direction from Andrew
36:47
Carmel. But one of the best things
36:49
Carmel did was bring in this slew of, I think for the most
36:54
part, young but just really creative, enthusiastic, smart
37:00
writers into this. And it is like opening the door
37:05
of a dusty old basement and letting in the fresh air.
37:09
There's there's just so much creative, there's so much
37:12
imagination in this era. I feel like we've been sort of
37:16
leaning on the same writers in the last five years, with the
37:19
odd exception, and he just knows the right people to suit his
37:24
approach to Doctor Who. And on the whole, I think it
37:29
works a lot. And I think this is unique.
37:32
There is not another script quite like this that pulls, that
37:35
juxtaposes all of these weird, disparate elements and throws
37:39
them into the 1950s in a holiday camp.
37:43
And only really Doctor Who would have the nerve to do this.
37:46
But I do think there's a lot of witty lines in here as well.
37:49
The comedy lands a. Lot.
37:50
The dialogue is well written. Yeah, agree.
37:52
The characterization is really strong.
37:54
You do care about these people and it does have momentum.
37:58
I think maybe there might be a few structural issues if you
38:00
pulled it apart, but the production papers over all of
38:04
that and it just moves at a lick.
38:06
So you don't really notice it's it's a solid, no, no, it's a
38:12
what's between solid and brilliant.
38:17
That's a. That's a very tricky.
38:19
Question It's a very it's a very good.
38:21
It's a memorable script. Competent sounds like damning
38:24
with faint praise. This is more than competence.
38:26
Solid. That's the worst word you can
38:28
use, isn't it? It's a solid script.
38:29
No, no. It's a it's a memorable script.
38:33
So, Malcolm Kalt. Yeah.
38:34
And I also think in the same way that you said the KEF
38:36
Mcculloch's score takes nerve. I think to write a script like
38:40
that takes nerve. And I'm not surprised that JNT
38:42
looked at it and said this is the worst thing I've ever read.
38:45
It's so left field. It's so not Doctor Who.
38:49
What Doctor Who? Well, ever done before, really,
38:51
but certainly not been doing recently.
38:53
And you know JNT wanted to direct this originally.
38:58
He also did well. It's a musical.
38:59
I mean, that's the my the one slight regret is that in a
39:05
different time they might have gone.
39:08
Do you know what this actually does need some more songs in it
39:11
and committed to having sung bits throughout.
39:15
They could have had a song on the bus.
39:16
They could have. Had Imagine phantom then,
39:18
though. I mean, I think this is.
39:20
As far as you can push them at the time.
39:23
Certainly at the time, I think that clearly further.
39:25
It wouldn't have just been tellies.
39:27
Being smashed, you know. The Television Center would have
39:30
been bombed or something like that.
39:33
Well, what's your second then? I so I was thinking in the long
39:41
lines. I was going to say Don
39:42
Henderson, but then I thought, do I?
39:46
Do I have Richard Davis as Burton or do I have Stubby K,
39:50
who I think is so watchable in this?
39:54
Hugh Lloyd. Hugh Lloyd, who I think is,
39:57
makes an incredible impression on very limited screen time.
40:00
I think he's a a fully rounded character who we would have
40:04
loved to spend more time with or even like Little characters like
40:08
Murray is a really nicely played part.
40:10
I think I'm just going to say the guest cast, because I can't
40:15
think of many Doctor Who's stories that have got.
40:19
Quite this many well written speaking roles actually and and
40:26
I think they're all really well cast.
40:28
I I know we've talked about how maybe the children queen is a a
40:32
bit too cold, doesn't quite gel. It's fine, no.
40:35
She does it. She, she, and and I.
40:38
She certainly does enough right that you you do care about her.
40:42
You are rooting for her by the end and you're rooting for her
40:45
and Billy. And again you say he's not the
40:47
the the greatest performance in the world, but he does what he
40:49
needs to. He looks nice, He helps the
40:52
doctor wire some speakers together and yeah, and he eats
40:56
some baby food. I kind.
40:57
Of think they. Only need to be a pretty couple.
40:59
And they are, you know, I can see why they want to be
41:02
together, yeah. That's a pretty couple in the
41:04
Shakespearean tradition. So yeah, I'm going to go for
41:06
the, for the, for the cast. Then my second one is going to
41:10
be all of those scenes in this story, and I'm talking about the
41:14
execution now rather than the script that you just wouldn't
41:17
see anywhere else in Doctor Who. So I'm talking about the singing
41:20
on the bus in episode one. The dance scenes, you know, they
41:25
get to know you dance. And the longing looks across the
41:28
dance floor, the Doctor dancing awkwardly, comforting Ray in the
41:33
laundry room. You know, the fade into the
41:36
morning. But you just don't see that.
41:38
I don't think this sort of those sort of scenes are anywhere else
41:42
in Doctor Who. I could go on for for ages, but
41:46
they're all part of what makes this it's own thing and I love
41:50
it for that. My third thing is something
41:56
that's very close to my heart, and that is the 7th Doctor's
42:00
umbrella. Which?
42:04
Debuts in this story and I believe was Sylvester Mccoy's
42:08
idea. Now there are those who will say
42:11
that a massive question mark on your umbrella handle is pushing
42:16
the bout of. Something might not be wrong.
42:19
Taste. I just remember thinking when I
42:23
was younger, A lot younger, how what a clever idea, because an
42:29
umbrella handle is the shape of a question mark.
42:32
So what a clever idea. And yeah, I think it probably
42:35
would have been designed if they, if they were to have the
42:38
the balls to design a question mark umbrella nowadays, they
42:41
would design it not in that massive ostentatious red.
42:44
But I used to, you know, I used to like the question mark
42:49
colours. Again, I can, I can sort of see
42:51
as objectively. Now I can see how that's it's
42:56
it's too on the nose. And you know the I certainly
42:58
never had much love for the pullover.
43:00
I sort of feel like I. Loved the pullover as a kid.
43:03
Right, I thought the guy had any subtlety at all.
43:06
Was chopped. I think when I was a child I was
43:08
made to wear a pullover at school.
43:10
So just the fact that he was wearing a pullover was a bit of
43:14
a turn off. I sort of I I I thought he'd be
43:16
better off without it and and I also I I suppose I grew up at
43:22
you know at a time when you wouldn't see you wouldn't you
43:25
wouldn't be seeing den in the tank top that was that would
43:27
have been the height that would have been just sticking a sign
43:30
on your your chest saying bully me so this.
43:34
Is a tank top covered in punctuation marks?
43:37
Speaking of someone who now occasionally sports a tank top,
43:40
I think I still wouldn't. How things change.
43:44
I still wouldn't wear one covered in question marks, but I
43:47
do have a Sylvester McCoy style umbrella.
43:49
Cancel that order then. Was that that was coming along
43:54
with the the, the chair. I think it's.
43:58
I think the image is just right for this era.
44:00
It's like Ace and the baseball bat again, it's it's of its
44:04
time. But it's this comic strip
44:06
sensibility that Cartman wants to bring to it.
44:07
And I feel like the question mark umbrella nails it just
44:11
right. And of course McCoy running up
44:15
and down stairs or you know being chased by explosions with
44:19
an umbrella is the iconic image the the in fact he has an
44:23
umbrella but not the question mark one in in Paradise towers
44:26
and there's a a scene where he just emerges into the the the
44:30
background of the scene silhouetted against that bright
44:32
window him and the umbrella and it's instantly recognizable.
44:35
It's the 7th Doctor. I think it's a great image.
44:37
I think it's a great prop and I think he makes great use of it
44:41
and it's the best Christmas present I've ever had.
44:43
So yeah, the umbrella. And you know, Marvellous with it
44:47
as well. Do you remember the cover to the
44:50
Rapture? The Big Finish audio?
44:52
It's McCoy in silhouette with his question mark umbrella.
44:56
It's a lovely cover with the Obeath and son behind him.
44:59
So guys, glorious. You.
45:01
Just that silhouette is so distinctive.
45:04
Yeah, don't always judge an audio adventure by his cover.
45:09
Well, quite, yeah. Good grief.
45:11
Well, my third thing then, is going to be Sylvester Mccoy's
45:15
apple. No, it's not going to be that
45:16
apple. No, we can't do all props, but
45:19
it's going to be Sylvester McCoy himself.
45:20
And that's just because I've done such a turn with the
45:24
character and the actor over the years.
45:26
In fact, even with his Big Finish stuff, as we're going
45:29
through that on finished Big I. It's a revelation to me how sort
45:34
of playful and complex he can be on audio.
45:37
Have you listened to Master yet? That's our no, that's coming up.
45:41
Is it flip flop next and then it's master after that.
45:44
It's brilliant. Such a great story.
45:46
That's trilogy. Anyway, that's for another time,
45:49
but. But just because, because
45:51
because I have been following your other podcast, one of your
45:54
other podcasts and and and listening to the Mccoys as well,
45:57
I I absolutely agree. And like I said earlier, I think
46:00
his vocal performance is sometimes overlooked because
46:07
he's such an ostentatiously physical performer and he
46:10
doesn't always judge the vocal performance brilliantly a lot of
46:15
the time he does. He does.
46:17
I mean, I did recently listen to The Dark Flame and clearly that
46:21
is the first time he's ever read that script when he's performing
46:24
it, you know, I think you can hear the pages turning as well.
46:27
Like it's it's yeah it's that time but McCoy in Delton and
46:31
Bannerman is just very striking. I think he gets to be physically
46:38
very funny. I think he gets to be
46:40
melancholic at the end. He gets a great confrontation
46:43
with the villain. He gets to look after Ray.
46:46
He gets to be sweet and silly with Mel you know and interact
46:51
with all these great characters is weird knowing relationship
46:54
with grown way. I just get to have so much fun
46:58
in this and I go back to the statement I said, the start of
47:00
the story, that he is one of the most impressive performers in
47:05
this season because so much around him.
47:07
It's a it reminds me of Patrick Trouton in the underwater
47:10
minutes Trouton's sort of gooning around until until he
47:13
comes up against and he goes, oh, I can never top this, so I'm
47:19
going to have to go in the other direction.
47:20
I think McCoy realised very quickly that what is it?
47:23
He says. I suddenly realised I had this
47:25
great gift of a role and you know he's playing it very broad
47:29
in time in the Rani. He still gets some sweet moments
47:32
in that but he is playing it is quite handsome mimic in time of
47:36
the his. Performance evolves very quickly
47:38
and you're right, this is a. It's a sublime performance.
47:41
I mean, this is where it solidifies.
47:43
I think in Paradise Towers he gets great like the bit, the the
47:45
rule book scene in Paradise Towers and moments like that.
47:48
But then there's other moments where he's wrestling with the
47:50
cleaners and you said, you know, he's sort of learning what to do
47:53
and what not to do. But here he's just completely at
47:56
home, really impressive and I think from this point on he just
48:00
knows how to play the doctor. He's the Doctor.
48:03
I think the Trouton analogy is is absolutely spot on and it's
48:08
another of the sometimes painful elements of watching the season
48:13
24 Blu-ray is that it's full of this material of people slagging
48:16
it off. Because of course, the BBC, to
48:18
promote their shows in those days, would send people on to
48:20
daytime television to to be told.
48:22
Their show is crap. And it's awful.
48:24
And and the number of people saying, well, he's just playing
48:27
it like a clown, not like the old doctors.
48:28
Well look at what Troughton does in in the The power of the Darks
48:32
where you know he's got a recorder, Mccoy's got spoons
48:36
he's flip flopping between wildly eccentric and and and
48:41
quiet pondering moments exactly like McCoy.
48:44
The the the two are are very similar in the way that they
48:47
become this kind of the the what is it karma calls him the
48:50
trickster the the the superficially the clown the
48:55
Buster Keaton slapstick character.
48:58
But but with with these depths and with this ability to control
49:01
people. I think Troughton does a a very
49:03
similar thing and I think you're you're right that the trajectory
49:06
is that they both very quickly go go in the opposite direction
49:11
to to to accommodate for performances that are going up
49:16
you know over the top they they make room for those performances
49:20
and for their own doctors by going small.
49:23
What I love about Trout and and I love about McCoy is that they
49:27
can be very playful and very disarming and very funny and you
49:32
know Trout and can go and massacre a lot of Ice Warriors
49:35
and McCoy can go and blow up a planet.
49:39
You know, like, don't. Don't get too relaxed with them.
49:43
Because they could do something terrible.
49:46
Yeah, I'm so weird. The journey I've gone with McCoy
49:49
is so, so satisfying, and I'm very pleased to have found
49:54
somebody else who just loves this era as well.
49:57
Celebrating this era is AI Think.
49:59
It's it's because I went through quite a lot of my early fandom
50:06
kind of feeling like it was a it was a an era of the show that
50:08
had been sneered at that was being sneered at by fans and non
50:11
fans alike. It was like it was treated as a
50:13
joke. Sylvester McCoy was a punchline
50:15
in an episode of Armando Iannucci's show.
50:18
I sort of feel like it was it and you know he was used as a
50:22
bust of jokes by Tom Baker and I Haven't Got News For You by
50:25
David Tennant. When he did Buzzcocks, you know,
50:28
it was really, until quite recently perceived as as a low
50:32
point. And it's just a joy over recent
50:36
years. And when you see kind of what's
50:37
been what people are talking about and how a new generation
50:40
of fans are discovering the classic series, an awful lot of
50:43
people are concluding that actually it went out on an
50:45
absolute high. And it's always nice to find
50:48
that you were right all along. I know I felt as if when you
50:51
heard my Ghost Light commentary, that was very cathartic for.
50:54
Me it really was, yeah. And and and to hear, you know to
50:57
hear it articulated so eloquently as well, you know
51:01
it's not he's. He's an eloquent bloke.
51:04
He he is. And there's always a danger, you
51:07
know, there's stuff that I'm going to love from my childhood
51:10
that hasn't stood the test of time, but I I feel unfairly,
51:14
kind of safe ground when I talk about the Macquarie era, I I I'm
51:18
not oblivious to its flaws either.
51:21
But I think they are a few and far between.
51:24
Well let's go out on that toy. Although we we've been on a high
51:29
to route and it's a great chance for me to ask you, and I haven't
51:33
been able to ask you this before.
51:35
James, where are we heading next?
51:36
That's if I haven't scared you off from doing it, you've
51:41
forgotten the. List.
51:43
I haven't forgotten the list. Dare we dare we take on Invasion
51:48
of Earth 2150 AD as? Oh please.
51:52
Cushing film. Can we do that?
51:56
Yeah, although you will. Have I said of Invasion of
51:58
Earth? That was a little grammatically
51:59
correct. Invasion Earth 2150.
52:02
AD Daleks Invasion Earth. Yeah, they didn't have to even
52:04
have Doctor. Who in the style?
52:06
No. Great.
52:08
Oh, the instant on music in that as well.
52:11
I do love that, yeah. You've got to think about Jazz
52:13
and Doctor Who, haven't you? I kind of have.
52:17
Yeah, well, we'll reconvene on post apocalyptic Earth in the
52:22
year 2150 AD very soon. But it just leads me to say
52:26
thank you very much for your time tonight.
52:28
It's always a delight to talk to you.
52:30
Thank you. Likewise.
52:31
Here's the future.