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Miss Juneteenth with Angelica Jade Bastién · The Bechdel Cast

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: On the Bechdecast.
• 0:02
  Speaker 2: The questions asked if movies have women and them, are
• 0:05
  Speaker 2: all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands, or do they
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: have individualism?
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: It's the patriarchy.
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: Ef and Beast start changing with the Bechdel Cast.
• 0:16
  Speaker 3: Hey Jamie, Hey Caitlin. Do you remember when we did
• 0:22
  Speaker 3: Pagentiary on the Patreon aka Matreon.
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: Yes, it's one of our themes, one of our one
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: of our worst theme names of all time.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: I would say, I don't think I ever said it correctly.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: It's a mouthful.
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: Well, we made the word up, so I say it
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: like I say Owen McGregor like Pagentuary.
• 0:42
  Speaker 3: Sure, for sure. I think it was a good theme,
• 0:45
  Speaker 3: but poorly named. And it just got me thinking that
• 0:48
  Speaker 3: we've done several pageant movies on the show, including today's episode,
• 0:53
  Speaker 3: which we'll get to in a moment. It's true, but well,
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: I get a lot of pageant narratives.
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: I thought that was all leading up to some really
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: elaborate pun No. I've also okay, I've also noticed we've
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: covered a lot of pageant movies. We've done Dropped Dead Gorgeous,
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: We've done Miss Congeniality, We've done oh what was the one.
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: What was the other one we did during Pagentuary.
• 1:11
  Speaker 3: Dumplin Dumplin and Little Miss Sunshine.
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: Oh my god. Yeah. Wow.
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of pageant movies, a lot of which
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: I love, including Ooh, Transition.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: Wow. The movie we're talking about today. We're talking about
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: Miss June teenth today on the Bechdel Cast.
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: But first, who are we? What is the Bechdel Cast? Well, Kaitlyn,
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: why don't you tell us?
• 1:35
  Speaker 3: Well, first of all, I'm Caitlin Dorante and.
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: I'm Jamie Loftus.
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: This is our show where we examine movies through an
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: intersectional feminist lens, using the Bechdel test simply as a
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: jumping off point. And that, of course, is a media
• 1:52
  Speaker 3: metric sometimes called the Bechdel Wallace Test. It first appeared
• 1:56
  Speaker 3: in Alison Bechdel's comic Dix to Watch Out For as.
• 1:59
  Speaker 4: A as a bit.
• 2:00
  Speaker 3: It was a joke, it was a goof, and it
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: now exists as a commonly cited media metric. There are
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: many versions of it. Ours is this, two characters of
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: a marginalized gender have to have names, they have to
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: speak to each other, and that conversation has to be
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: about something other than a man. And we especially like
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: it when it's a nice and meaty conversation, a.
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: Good beefy conva, a big.
• 2:34
  Speaker 3: Beefy burgher of a conversation.
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: No waiters with a name tag saying would you like
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: fries with that yes doesn't count. We've grown past it. Also,
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: the show's about a lot more than that, as we're
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: about to get into. I still love all these years
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: later when people are lying to our faces about listening
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: to the show, which is fine, you don't have to
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: listen to a show, but they're like, oh, yeah, that's
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: the show where you go through every line of dialogue
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: in a movie and try to figure out if it
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: passes that.
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: I was like, no, who would listen to that?
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: Look, we named the show seven years ago and we
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: have to live with it, and here we are. Life
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: goes on, and today we have an incredible episode. I
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: feel like this really this brings our pageant movies we've
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: covered over the years.
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: I don't know if there's others. Are we missing any?
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: At this point? Have we done every pageant movie?
• 3:25
  Speaker 3: I think there are others that are maybe a bit
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: more like off the beaten path, but as far as
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: like quite mainstream ones because there's a there's one called
• 3:36
  Speaker 3: I think it's called Beautiful that Oh my gosh, what
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: is her name? She is in Goodwill hunting. She's British.
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: Any driver, yes, mini driver. All right, we have to
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: start the show. We can't get into mini driver discourse
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: at this time. But there's that movie about a pageant,
• 3:55
  Speaker 3: and then there's there's there's gotta be others. Anyway, let's
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: get our guests in here.
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: She is a TV and film critic for New York
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: Magazine's site Vulture. She lives in Chicago with her boyfriend
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: and four cats, which means thirty two nipples because cats
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: have eight nipple. Well, I'm a genius.
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: And reaction to thirty two nipples.
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: And one of the best compliments she's ever received is
• 4:25
  Speaker 3: from a close friend who called her deliciously vulgar, incredible.
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: It's Angelica Jade Bastion.
• 4:32
  Speaker 4: Hello, I'm so happy to be here. You're a great movie.
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: It's gonna be fine. Yeah.
• 4:40
  Speaker 3: We cite your work quite frequently on the show, so
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: it's an honor to actually have you here in the flesh.
• 4:46
  Speaker 4: Oh, an honor that is that's kind of lofty. I
• 4:50
  Speaker 4: will try to live up to how I come across
• 4:53
  Speaker 4: up the pace.
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: Well, you are deliciously vulgar. Yeah.
• 4:58
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I do curse a lot more in person than
• 5:02
  Speaker 4: I do on the page, for obvious reasons. But I'm
• 5:06
  Speaker 4: just like more vulgar in general in person. So when
• 5:09
  Speaker 4: my good friend, who is a contributing writer at The
• 5:13
  Speaker 4: New Yorker and the teacher in the English department at Northwestern,
• 5:17
  Speaker 4: Laura Michelle Jackson, told me that on a friend trip
• 5:20
  Speaker 4: in Sagatuck, Michigan, over a board game, I was so touched.
• 5:26
  Speaker 4: I was like, that is such an amazing compliment. And
• 5:30
  Speaker 4: I was like, oh, I got to use this in
• 5:32
  Speaker 4: my bio. I need motherfuckers to know I'm deliciously vulgar.
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: I can't wait to hear more.
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: And they are indeed motherfuckers. It's part of the deliciously vulgar.
• 5:42
  Speaker 4: Experience, exactly when you get it.
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: So well, we're so stuck to have you here.
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: Truly tell us your relationship with Miss Juneteenth.
• 5:52
  Speaker 4: Well, I ended up, you know, seeing the trailer and
• 5:56
  Speaker 4: hearing about it, and I asked to review it at
• 5:59
  Speaker 4: work when it came out in twenty twenty, and I
• 6:03
  Speaker 4: ended up really loving the movie. I loving its cultural
• 6:07
  Speaker 4: specificity and really having a great time talking to Nicole
• 6:13
  Speaker 4: Bihari for an interview about the film for Vulture as well.
• 6:18
  Speaker 4: But I hadn't seen it since I reviewed it, which
• 6:21
  Speaker 4: isn't out of the norm. A lot of times I'll
• 6:24
  Speaker 4: review something and then just kind of move on because
• 6:27
  Speaker 4: there's so much I want to watch, so much I
• 6:29
  Speaker 4: want to see an experience. So it was really nice
• 6:33
  Speaker 4: revisiting the film for this podcast, you know, a few
• 6:37
  Speaker 4: years later, and I was like, yeah, this is still
• 6:39
  Speaker 4: a really great, touching, moving film. That's a simple story
• 6:44
  Speaker 4: well told, is how i'd put it.
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 6:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And you're, of course referring to the piece you
• 6:50
  Speaker 3: wrote for Vulture entitled Miss Juneteenth is a gently beautiful
• 6:55
  Speaker 3: film worth celebrating, which is a really wonderful piece. We
• 6:59
  Speaker 3: recommend our listeners check it out nice as a companion
• 7:04
  Speaker 3: piece to this episode.
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: Wow, companion piece deliciously vulgar. Actually, I wouldn't say that
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: that one is vulgar. It's a gentle, lovely piece.
• 7:13
  Speaker 4: It's very gently lovely piece. But if you want something
• 7:16
  Speaker 4: on the more vulgar side, please I did write about
• 7:19
  Speaker 4: Dead Ringers through the lens of Rachel Weiss's performance and
• 7:24
  Speaker 4: I use the word cunt twice in my lead.
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: So wow, truly, I haven't read that yet. That's exciting.
• 7:32
  Speaker 4: I hope you have a fun time with it. I
• 7:34
  Speaker 4: had a really fun time writing nice.
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: I read visit your Kuella essay oft I'm trying to
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: think of like my anyways, big fan.
• 7:42
  Speaker 4: No, that's funny you mentioned Kruella. My boyfriend and I
• 7:45
  Speaker 4: were talking about it the other day and I was like, man,
• 7:48
  Speaker 4: the headline for that was like, really good. It was
• 7:51
  Speaker 4: Kruella is the girl bossification of the mad Woman. Yeah,
• 7:55
  Speaker 4: because that whole movie is just a joke to me.
• 7:58
  Speaker 4: It's also like, are we doing a backstory on a
• 8:02
  Speaker 4: villain who wanted to kill puppies? How are you? What
• 8:05
  Speaker 4: are we doing?
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: Puppies killed her parents? It was is that the tech story?
• 8:10
  Speaker 4: Yes?
• 8:10
  Speaker 3: So true?
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: Oh yes, to.
• 8:13
  Speaker 4: Push her mom over, Like at least that's what you
• 8:16
  Speaker 4: she thinks and what you as an audience think till
• 8:19
  Speaker 4: a reveal later on. Yeah, that's why she's like engineered.
• 8:23
  Speaker 4: Woa oh god, yeah that show she's complicated.
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: Ladies, Like, it's absolutely it was like I didn't need
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: more than Glenn Close.
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: Cruella that we should have just stopped. Yeah, train, let's stop.
• 8:37
  Speaker 4: How about that, Let's stop doing the same thing again
• 8:42
  Speaker 4: and again. Let's have more films like Miss June Teeth
• 8:46
  Speaker 4: that are original and at a quiet tenor that's always
• 8:51
  Speaker 4: really nice. Like more quiet, sweet, welcoming movies that are
• 8:55
  Speaker 4: like a warm bath. You know, that's what I.
• 8:57
  Speaker 3: Want, absolutely, Jamie. What's your history relationship with Miss Juneteenth.
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: I had seen the movie once before. I remember hearing
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: about it when it came out, possibly from your work Angelica,
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: and being like, I'm going to see that in theaters.
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: But it was twenty twenty, so I did not indeed
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: see it in theaters. No, I do think that this
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: movie had a long tenure on Netflix.
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: I want to say I.
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: Watched it on streaming in twenty twenty when it was
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: released and thought it was really lovely. Again, it felt
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: we were talking about this a little bit off, Mike,
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: but just I remember the first time I watched it
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: because of sort of what we're conditioned to think about
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: pageant movies, that it's going to be the coming of
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: age story for the person competing in the pageant and
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: not their parent, and I was I remember being like
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: pleasantly taken off guard by Turquoise being the protagonist of
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: this movie.
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: And I just I really.
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: Enjoyed it, and I didn't really have my analysis goggles on.
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: I just liked it, and it was really fun to
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: go back and to experience it again. It's such a good,
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: Like I don't know, this movie just feels so effortless
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: in everything it's doing, and I feel like that's really
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: really really hard to do in a coming of age movie.
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: Even in ones I like, you get these like really
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: overwritten speeches about like and now I have come of age,
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: and which can also be great, but it's just like
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: this movie. Yeah, it just feels so lovely and effortless
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: and I'm excited to talk about it.
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: Kitlyn. What was your history of this movie.
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: I didn't see it until beginning to prep for this episode,
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: so my history with it is very short. But I
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: really like the movie. I tend not to seek out
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: more like character driven stories because I like big, bombastic romps,
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: you know.
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: Me, explosions, no Dalmatians killing parents, that's the points exactly.
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: So character study type movies are they can be a
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: little hit or miss for me, but this one's really
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: tender and moving, and I really liked it, and all
• 11:15
  Speaker 3: of the performances are really wonderful, and yeah, it's just
• 11:20
  Speaker 3: a very lovely movie.
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: I feel like, because I mean, so much of the
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: twenty twenty is like a confusing blur to me. I
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: was surprised in rewatching Nicole Bahari's performance that she wasn't
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: nominated for.
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: More like I saw she got like a lot, like
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: she got.
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: Nominated for an Independent Spirit Award. She got nominated for
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: I think, uh or she won a Gotham Award.
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: But I was like, I feel like it shouldn't have
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: stopped there.
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: It's such a beautiful performance, Like I just really and
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: then reading about her process and like researching and going
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: down to Texas and just like meeting people. I just
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: was really, I really fell in love with her in
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: reading about her process and actually like rewatching your performance
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: a couple times.
• 12:04
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a shame she wasn't nominated for More, But
• 12:08
  Speaker 4: I think the reason why she wasn't is because it's
• 12:10
  Speaker 4: a great performance whose greatness isn't legible to what award
• 12:15
  Speaker 4: bodies expect from.
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: A great performance, for sure, right, you know.
• 12:19
  Speaker 4: Like I think a lot of times the performances that
• 12:22
  Speaker 4: are praised when it comes to award bodies, especially when
• 12:27
  Speaker 4: you're getting to like the Oscars and stuff like that
• 12:30
  Speaker 4: is often work that makes the quote unquote labor of
• 12:35
  Speaker 4: acting very visible for audiences, so they can see the effort,
• 12:39
  Speaker 4: they can see the choices made, and a lot of
• 12:42
  Speaker 4: times I'm not really a big fan of those kind
• 12:44
  Speaker 4: of performances, Like I think like Kate Blanchett and Tar
• 12:47
  Speaker 4: is an interesting example of that, where it's a culmination
• 12:50
  Speaker 4: of a lot of work she's done, and it's an
• 12:54
  Speaker 4: effort full performance in a lot of ways, which can
• 12:57
  Speaker 4: be really fascinating. I am partially fascinated by that movie
• 13:01
  Speaker 4: and performance, partially frustrated by it. But I think she's
• 13:05
  Speaker 4: an interesting example for what it takes for female actors
• 13:10
  Speaker 4: to gain credibility and award bodies. Also, like they expect
• 13:15
  Speaker 4: a certain kind of performance from black women to gain
• 13:20
  Speaker 4: traction with awards.
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: Right, it's a lot of like pain and tears and
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: like yelling speeches while tears are flowing down the face
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: kind of thing I think is what tends to garner
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: attention for like Oscar nominations, especially when it comes to
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: performances from black women.
• 13:41
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it has the Oscars ever nominated a black female
• 13:46
  Speaker 4: performer for a performance that is not rooted in pain?
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: Ooh, not that I can remember. I don't think so.
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: No. I mean because even if you're thinking about Angela
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: Bassett's nomination this last year, like that performed, I mean,
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: it was an incredible performance, but so rooted in grief
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: and pain, and yeah, yeah, I mean.
• 14:05
  Speaker 4: I've legit never thought about it like that, but now
• 14:09
  Speaker 4: I'm like, hmm, that's a little interesting.
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah, suspect, let's keep our eye on that.
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: I was like, something is not quite right with that, Academy.
• 14:21
  Speaker 4: I wonder what the problem is.
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: But I think that, I mean, part of what makes
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: Nicole bo Harry's performance so amazing. You say in your
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: piece Angelica, of like it's a performance that is just
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: so rooted in like existence and like she's so at
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: home in this character and it's so effortless versus yeah,
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: the effort full. Like I feel like when I think
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: of Academy Award effort, I think of like DiCaprio in
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: The Bear, and you're.
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: Like, oh my god, how bad do you want that
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: damn trophy?
• 14:57
  Speaker 4: Like oh he is, like I will take it all off.
• 15:01
  Speaker 4: I will literally have sex with someone for this trophy.
• 15:04
  Speaker 4: Let me do anything everything, you can have all of
• 15:08
  Speaker 4: me for an oscar, which is fine, you know, if
• 15:12
  Speaker 4: that's what you want to do. But I always find
• 15:15
  Speaker 4: it really interesting the neediness of certain actors with the oscars,
• 15:21
  Speaker 4: Like it's kind of fascinating watching, Like, sometimes it's expected
• 15:26
  Speaker 4: you expect Leonardo DiCaprio to like go like extreme, like
• 15:32
  Speaker 4: put his body through stuff, put his mind through stuff,
• 15:35
  Speaker 4: like be an effortful performer, like I said, But then
• 15:39
  Speaker 4: sometimes you're like looking at like the campaign trail and
• 15:43
  Speaker 4: you're like, for example, I was kind of surprised by
• 15:46
  Speaker 4: how much Colin Ferrell was campaigning, Like I don't think
• 15:50
  Speaker 4: he was being like so needy that is on a
• 15:55
  Speaker 4: DiCaprio level. But he's an actor whose career is interesting
• 15:59
  Speaker 4: because there was a moment, a long moment where he
• 16:02
  Speaker 4: was really trying to be a mainstream almost action y
• 16:05
  Speaker 4: but not quite action y, like you know that didn't
• 16:08
  Speaker 4: they have that total recall remake? Am I like making
• 16:10
  Speaker 4: it up?
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 16:12
  Speaker 4: Right?
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: Would you include his Phone Booth movie to be in
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: that like action part?
• 16:16
  Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, yeah, I was actually thinking of that that movie.
• 16:20
  Speaker 4: But to see him after like all this time where
• 16:23
  Speaker 4: it's like, oh, he's like focusing on character work. He's
• 16:26
  Speaker 4: just in it for the work and the love of
• 16:27
  Speaker 4: the work. To see him like really out there campaigning
• 16:31
  Speaker 4: and I was like, man, y'all are everybody is thirsty?
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: People need validation.
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I was like, I can relate with that.
• 16:40
  Speaker 4: Yeah, when you say it like that, it is like
• 16:42
  Speaker 4: them getting recognized by a body of their peers, and
• 16:45
  Speaker 4: like when you think of it like that, yeah, of
• 16:47
  Speaker 4: course they want to be like they're fucking actor like that.
• 16:50
  Speaker 4: It has like part of the thing.
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: But you do think I feel like Colin Ferrell is
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: like curated. I thought, I think pretty like the cool
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: guy persona much that you're like, oh, he doesn't care
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: about trophies.
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: They're like, yeah, he does does care.
• 17:04
  Speaker 4: He does really care. And it's like, I mean, okay,
• 17:08
  Speaker 4: you had he had a really good year last year.
• 17:10
  Speaker 4: Good for Colin Ferrell.
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: He did good for.
• 17:15
  Speaker 4: Anyway.
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: No, I was like, I've already this is gonna be
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: a great episode of Yeah, I put like that. I mean,
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: I guess it does make some unfair sense that Nicole
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: Bahari wasn't more recognized by larger bodies of work.
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: But it's just like I don't know.
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: Now that I've seen this movie twice in the last week,
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: I just am like so blown.
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: Away by her. I want to see her in more stuff.
• 17:41
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: I read that she was blacklisted for a while after
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: requesting accommodations for an autoimmune disease that she developed during
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: the production of Sleepy Hollow, which is a show I
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: did watch a substantial amount of. But after learning about that,
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: and I was like, oh my gosh, I've learned two things. Yeah,
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: like horrifying that she developed an illness during production needed
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: accommodations for that illness. And then mister Hollywood was like, no.
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: Sorry, we're ablest, Like yes, I didn't know that. Wow.
• 18:19
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, because she came out talking about that like
• 18:22
  Speaker 4: after the show was done. And if you watch the show,
• 18:25
  Speaker 4: I thought the first season was really fun and I'm like, Oh,
• 18:27
  Speaker 4: they're gonna build on a relationship, this interracial, cross time,
• 18:31
  Speaker 4: weird relationship between these two characters, and then they don't,
• 18:36
  Speaker 4: and then her character is like, like they really stop
• 18:39
  Speaker 4: giving a fuck about her character in that show, And
• 18:41
  Speaker 4: I was just that was at a like moment in
• 18:44
  Speaker 4: Hollywood history, like right before our conversations about diversity started
• 18:50
  Speaker 4: to like be reawakened, and we're seeing like the studios
• 18:54
  Speaker 4: put more effort into that. Although I think it's craven,
• 18:57
  Speaker 4: it's never altruistic with these studios. These are companies, you know.
• 19:02
  Speaker 4: So it's like really interesting to kind of like look
• 19:05
  Speaker 4: at how her career was affected by that, because I
• 19:08
  Speaker 4: still don't think it's like bounced back despite you know,
• 19:11
  Speaker 4: a great performance in Miss Juneteenth. And it's a shame
• 19:15
  Speaker 4: because I think in a lot of ways audiences, critics
• 19:21
  Speaker 4: people in the industry. Then the industry has really gone
• 19:24
  Speaker 4: dramatically forward in terms of diversity, Like it's been a
• 19:27
  Speaker 4: noticeable difference. And I'm like, look at the like you know,
• 19:31
  Speaker 4: I'm gonna speak from a black perspective, but like look,
• 19:34
  Speaker 4: for example, at the black actors who were kind of
• 19:36
  Speaker 4: slipping through the crack despite being super talented, despite sometimes
• 19:40
  Speaker 4: having like one high profile thing. You would think, oh,
• 19:43
  Speaker 4: like the industry's doing better. Of course, this great performer
• 19:46
  Speaker 4: is gonna have like other opportunities, and that's like not happening.
• 19:51
  Speaker 4: I especially see that with like elder black actors. I'm like,
• 19:56
  Speaker 4: why aren't we seeing like I kind of thought about
• 19:59
  Speaker 4: it with Keith David and Nope, and I was like,
• 20:01
  Speaker 4: I'm glad he showed up in it, but like his
• 20:04
  Speaker 4: character is important for dying, not for doing anything. And
• 20:09
  Speaker 4: I'm like, I would like to see these older actors
• 20:12
  Speaker 4: get actual work that really lives up to their talents
• 20:17
  Speaker 4: and offers them the kind of work that they wanted
• 20:19
  Speaker 4: for so long. And they've demonstrated their talented but they
• 20:23
  Speaker 4: haven't gotten the consistent work. And I think that's what's
• 20:27
  Speaker 4: really frustrating. We're still seeing there's only a few like
• 20:30
  Speaker 4: directors and actors of color, of marginalized genders, of different
• 20:36
  Speaker 4: presentations and like sexualities and all that stuff, Like they're
• 20:41
  Speaker 4: not getting the consistent work. It's a very small group
• 20:44
  Speaker 4: of people who are getting the consistent work. And because
• 20:48
  Speaker 4: like Hollywood history is so jagged with progress for people
• 20:51
  Speaker 4: of color, you know, it seems like there's more happening
• 20:56
  Speaker 4: than there actually is, and it's easy to forget. Like
• 20:59
  Speaker 4: an actress like Bahari, despite being incredibly talented, and obviously
• 21:04
  Speaker 4: she has an autoimmune disorder, so that can affect you know,
• 21:08
  Speaker 4: what kind of work she's willing to take on, and
• 21:11
  Speaker 4: like what she wants to do but she's still like
• 21:14
  Speaker 4: she can still do like fun character work like.
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: This, and we're just not seeing it. Yeah, and I
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: speaking to that point.
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: It does feel like, especially with award systems and just
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: larger institutions, and I think areas of the media as well,
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: like there's a tendency to celebrate a moment but not
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: sustain it, or like celebrate a performance and be like
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: this person is back and then they're gone again because
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: there's not the consistent and I feel like that that
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: goes to obviously who's behind the camera as well.
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: I'm wondering if either of you know.
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: I wasn't able to find anything of the writer director
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: of this movie, Channing Godfrey Peoples.
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: They have, They've released a short film the year.
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: After this, but I don't know that there's been I
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: haven't heard anything from this amazing director.
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: And you're like, it's been three years, why are we
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: giving her stuff?
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: Like it's yeah, yeah, it's a damn shame.
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: It is a damn shame. But let's talk about the movie.
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: Yes, Let's let us take a quick break and then
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: we will come back for the recap. Okay, So here
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: is the synopsis for Miss Juneteenth. The story takes place
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: in Fort Worth, Texas. We meet Turquoise Jones played by
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: Nicole Bahari.
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: She is a.
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: Former winner of her community's Miss Juneteenth pageant. We meet
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: her while she's like taking a trip down memory lane.
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: She's looking at her dress and her tiara. But that
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: was fifteen years ago. Turquoise is now a single mother.
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: She works at a bar. We meet her colleagues at
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: the bar, Betty Ray and the owner, this guy named Wayman.
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: She stops by an autobody shop to get her truck
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: fixed by Ronnie played by Kendrick Sampson.
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: I love Kendrick Sampson. He's very good, Yeah, in everything.
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: He's got such range, and he's so good in this movie. Anyways,
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: all right, that's all I have to stay at this time.
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: So Turquoise is in this like on again, off again
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: relationship with Ronnie, who is also the father of her
• 23:41
  Speaker 3: teenage daughter Kai. Turquoise takes Kai played by Alexis to
• 23:47
  Speaker 3: Keys I'm not sure exactly how to pronounce her last name,
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: takes her to register for this year's Miss Juneteenth pageant.
• 23:57
  Speaker 3: We also learn about Juneteenth, which is, of course, the
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: holiday that celebrates the date that slaves in Texas learned
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: they were free on June nineteenth, eighteen sixty five, which
• 24:10
  Speaker 3: was two and a half years after the Emancipation Proclamation.
• 24:15
  Speaker 3: The winner of Miss June teenth receives a scholarship to
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: any historically black college of her choosing. And for this reason,
• 24:24
  Speaker 3: Turquoise is like really pushing for Kai to participate in
• 24:28
  Speaker 3: the pageant, and she really wants this victory for her
• 24:33
  Speaker 3: to have access to this scholarship. But you can tell
• 24:37
  Speaker 3: that Kai is not really interested in competing in the pageant.
• 24:41
  Speaker 3: She's just doing it to appease her mom, and Kai
• 24:43
  Speaker 3: would rather join the dance team.
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: That's something that really stuck out to me about this
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: movie right away, where I feel like the other pageant
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: movies we've covered.
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: Like they make it a joke.
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: I know, in Miss Congeniality, it's a consistent joke throughout
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: the movie that like it's a scholarship, when it's like, no, actually,
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: we are here to be competitive and to be pretty
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: and blah blah blah blah blah. And I like that
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: this movie is like, no, it is for the scholarship.
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: That's why.
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's for a lot of reasons, but that
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: is a big component of it. I feel like that's
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: usually kind of pushed by the wayside or made to
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: seem disingenuous in a way. That kind of, yeah, that
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: I think is sort of meant to illustrate people who
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: participate in pageants as frivolous and unimportant.
• 25:30
  Speaker 3: So I liked that this movie hit that really clearly, definitely.
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: And then so Kai participating in the pageant means that
• 25:40
  Speaker 3: she needs to keep her grades up and represent herself
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: well in the community, and it also means a lot
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: of costs. There's like buying the gown, there's registration fees,
• 25:52
  Speaker 3: There's all these expenses. But Turquoise doesn't make a lot
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: of money at the bar nor at her second job
• 25:59
  Speaker 3: at a funeral home. We also meet the owner of
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: the funeral home. He's this guy named Bacon played by
• 26:08
  Speaker 3: Akron Watson, who is openly in love with Turquoise, talks
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: about it.
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: All the time, has been for a very long time,
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: but she.
• 26:20
  Speaker 3: Is not interested in him at this time. Kai gets
• 26:24
  Speaker 3: accepted into the pageant, which Turquoise is more excited about
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: than Kai is. Turquoise wants her to perform Maya Angelou's
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: poem Phenomenal Woman as her talent because that's what Turquoise
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: did when she was competing in the pageant. However, Kai
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: wants to dance for her talent, but Turquoise isn't having it. Meanwhile,
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: the pageant expenses are starting to pile up. Also, Turquoise's
• 26:53
  Speaker 3: electricity bill is overdue, so she picks up extra shifts
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: at work and tries to get her mother, Charlotte played
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: by Lori Hayes, to watch Kai, but Charlotte refuses. She
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: is super religious and wants to like save Turquoise and Kai. Meanwhile,
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: Ronnie gets arrested for I think shooting an alligator that
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: attacked him while he was fishing. Yep, yes, I was like,
• 27:24
  Speaker 3: is that what happened?
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: And that was at that point in the movie. I'm like,
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: I don't know a lot about Texas.
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: I know, I was like gators I associate with Florida,
• 27:33
  Speaker 3: but it just goes to show how little I know
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: about US geography. So anyway, so he gets arrested and
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: now Turquoise has to bail him out, which is another expense.
• 27:46
  Speaker 3: Turquoise and Chai celebrate Kai's fifteenth birthday together, though they
• 27:51
  Speaker 3: have to do so in the dark because the power
• 27:54
  Speaker 3: has been shut off. Then we see Kai continuing to
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: prep for the pageant. Turquoise continues to work a bunch
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: at the bar, although one of her shifts gets cut
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: short when she discovers her mother. Charlotte is blackout drunk
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: at the bar, and Turquoise has to take her home
• 28:15
  Speaker 3: and care for her. Meanwhile, Kai is hanging out with
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: her boyfriend. I don't know if we even ever learn
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: his name. I don't think we do, but some boy
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: from school. And then Turquoise comes home and catches her
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: and reprimands her for sneaking around and having boys over,
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: and Kai is like, I'm not a kid anymore. Classic
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: mother daughter.
• 28:38
  Speaker 4: Classic thing. A teenager will say, yeah, and it's like yeah, no,
• 28:43
  Speaker 4: in my mind, you're going to be a kid for
• 28:44
  Speaker 4: a while. It's okay, okay to be a kid.
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so fun to watch.
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: Like I just think of like movies I watched when
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: I was a teenager, being like yeah, she's right, and
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: then like watching it when I'm thirty and being like, no,
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: she's no, Yeah she should be home by eleven.
• 29:05
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm the latest. I can't or pray for my
• 29:10
  Speaker 4: kids and whatever. Strictness I won't be moving with.
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: Oops you No, I feel I'm like full team mom.
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: Oh as long as like, because Turk is.
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: An amazing mom, I'm full. Like I'm like, yeah, you
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: do have to come home by eleven? Sorry?
• 29:25
  Speaker 4: Yeah, like you're fifteen, Come on now, come on, what
• 29:28
  Speaker 4: are you even doing? You can't even drink, you can't
• 29:31
  Speaker 4: even like, what are you doing out there.
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: Hanging out learning dance moves? Yeah, and her boyfriend does
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: seem very sweet.
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: He's supportive, he's writing mixes for her dance choreography.
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: It's a very teenager.
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, babe, I made you this tape anyway. So
• 29:51
  Speaker 3: Turquoise keeps working very hard to pay for all of
• 29:54
  Speaker 3: these expenses. She has a conversation with her boss Woymen
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: about taking pride and being able to run your own
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: thing that no one can take away from you, even
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: if it is something like a hole in the wall
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: dive bar. Meanwhile, Bacon, the funeral home guy, tells Turquoise
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: that he can provide for her and her daughter, and
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: he's like really trying to convince her to be with him,
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: and she's like pass. Then there's a scene where Turquoise
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: Mom tries to save her and Kai.
• 30:31
  Speaker 4: It's very uncomfortable, like throwing holy water. They're like the
• 30:36
  Speaker 4: part of the congregation is like in a circle around
• 30:39
  Speaker 4: Turquoise and Kai and like crying over. It's so uncomfortable,
• 30:43
  Speaker 4: and it's like, oh, wow, this mother sucks. Yeah.
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: Especially, I thought it was so brilliant the way that
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: we learn about Turquoise's mom over the course of the movie,
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: where we're like, it almost seems like she's presented kind
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: of as like a stock character of like very really
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: just parent, but then you learn that she's struggling with
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: addiction and that it's clearly affected the direction of Turquoise's life,
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: and then we go back to the religious stuff and
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: then you're like, no, like.
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: Charlotte, it's it's really interesting.
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm excited to talk about it. Yeah, because that like,
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: it's so that scene is so claustrophobic.
• 31:20
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And all this to say that things are kind
• 31:23
  Speaker 3: of falling apart for Turquoise and Kai can see how
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: difficult her mother has it. Also, the dress rehearsal for
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: the pageant is coming up, and Ronnie owes Turquoise money
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: which she needs to pay for the dress, but he
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: kind of disappears, so Kai has to do the dress
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: rehearsal in her regular clothes, and it's you know, humiliating
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: for them. Then Wayman, the owner of the bar, has
• 31:56
  Speaker 3: a heart attack and is hospitalized. Bake asks Turquoise to
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: go to a fundraiser party to help with his medical bills,
• 32:06
  Speaker 3: and they go and they have a nice time. But
• 32:08
  Speaker 3: Ronnie finds out that she went with Bacon, and he
• 32:12
  Speaker 3: gets jealous and aggressive and then he storms off, and
• 32:15
  Speaker 3: Bacon is like, all right, do you want to be
• 32:18
  Speaker 3: with me or not? And Turquoise is like, I thought
• 32:21
  Speaker 3: I already made this clear, but no, I just want
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: something for myself.
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: Another great moment, because I feel like a movie that
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: came out twenty years ago, that scene probably would have
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: gone differently.
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 32:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah, she probably would have been like, yeah, let's smooch Bacon.
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: You've worn me down after all these years, right, isn't
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: it romantic?
• 32:43
  Speaker 4: Exactly?
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 32:44
  Speaker 3: But no, She's like, I don't really know what I
• 32:47
  Speaker 3: want right now, but it's not you, and I need
• 32:50
  Speaker 3: to figure out what I want for myself. Then it's
• 32:53
  Speaker 3: the day of the Miss Juneteenth pageant. Kai wears her
• 32:58
  Speaker 3: mother's dress with some alterations. Because they couldn't end up
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: affording the eight hundred dollars dress that Turquoise was trying
• 33:04
  Speaker 3: to buy. Kai does perform the poem, but she does
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: it to dance choreography that she's been practicing to music
• 33:14
  Speaker 3: that her boyfriend mixed for her, and Turquoise isn't sure
• 33:18
  Speaker 3: about this at first, but the performance goes well and
• 33:21
  Speaker 3: then she's really proud of her daughter. The runners up
• 33:26
  Speaker 3: and the winner are announced and Kai, in another like
• 33:32
  Speaker 3: interesting movie subversion, Kai does not win anything, and she's
• 33:37
  Speaker 3: upset because she thinks she disappointed her mother. Turquoise is
• 33:42
  Speaker 3: upset on Kay's behalf for not getting the opportunities that
• 33:47
  Speaker 3: come with winning, like the scholarship. Then Turquoise apologizes to Kai, saying, oh,
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: you know, I've been trying to make you miss June teenth,
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: but you're Miss Kai Marie Jones, and I'm.
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: Like, oh, then we're crying. We're crying. Great.
• 34:04
  Speaker 3: And then the story wraps up with Turquoise putting a
• 34:08
  Speaker 3: small down payment to buy Wayman's bar because he can't
• 34:12
  Speaker 3: afford to keep running it with his medical bills, and
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: this gives her a chance to have something of her own,
• 34:19
  Speaker 3: something that she can run, so it's a win win
• 34:22
  Speaker 3: for both of them. And then the movie ends with
• 34:25
  Speaker 3: Turquoise and Kai having a nice moment, and then Turquoise
• 34:29
  Speaker 3: is like, hey, when are those dance team tryouts? And
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: we're like, yay, she's learning.
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: The and.
• 34:41
  Speaker 3: So let's take another quick break and we'll come back
• 34:44
  Speaker 3: to discuss, and we're back.
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: Where do we want to start and delicate? Is there
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: anything that jumps out to you right away?
• 34:57
  Speaker 4: Yeah? One thing I wanted to call out, and I
• 35:00
  Speaker 4: mentioned a little earlier, was just the cultural specificity of
• 35:04
  Speaker 4: miss Juneteenth. I think it's very easy for mainstream media,
• 35:11
  Speaker 4: film and television in particular, to kind of act like
• 35:16
  Speaker 4: black people are a monolith and there aren't like some
• 35:19
  Speaker 4: dramatic cultural differences even amongst people in the South. And
• 35:22
  Speaker 4: I think a lot about Juneteenth because that is specifically
• 35:26
  Speaker 4: a Black Texan thing that is not that wasn't like
• 35:30
  Speaker 4: a popular talking point amongst all black people. It was
• 35:34
  Speaker 4: very specific to Black Texans, not just Black Southerners, but
• 35:38
  Speaker 4: Black Texans. And I just love the work the film
• 35:44
  Speaker 4: puts in to really show the specificity, the importance, the
• 35:48
  Speaker 4: care that these black folks put into Juneteenth celebrations and
• 35:53
  Speaker 4: what it means to them. And while I am very
• 35:56
  Speaker 4: happy to have juamteenth off because white people figure doubt
• 36:00
  Speaker 4: it was a thing, I do think it's really interesting
• 36:04
  Speaker 4: how it's become like sort of flatten into oh, yeah,
• 36:08
  Speaker 4: this is like for all black people, And I'm like,
• 36:10
  Speaker 4: we can't forget the specific cultural forces at play that
• 36:17
  Speaker 4: led to Juneteenth existing as a celebration, in Juneteenth becoming
• 36:21
  Speaker 4: a holiday.
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 36:23
  Speaker 4: I have a lot of feelings about how the South
• 36:28
  Speaker 4: is portrayed and discussed in film and television. Yeah, as
• 36:32
  Speaker 4: a Southern gal, I'm from born and primarily raised in Miami,
• 36:37
  Speaker 4: but my family and my maternal family is from rural Louisiana,
• 36:43
  Speaker 4: and also I have a lot of family in Texas
• 36:46
  Speaker 4: as well, but Louisiana is kind of like my second home.
• 36:49
  Speaker 4: Specifically this very small town that if I were to
• 36:52
  Speaker 4: say the name and you knew it, it would be
• 36:55
  Speaker 4: weird to me because it's like very, very very small.
• 37:00
  Speaker 4: But I think what's interesting right now, and like rewatching
• 37:04
  Speaker 4: misju Teeth, I was thinking about a lot of the
• 37:06
  Speaker 4: conversations happening about another Southern state, Florida, and everything going
• 37:11
  Speaker 4: on with its anti gay, anti trans bills, and I
• 37:15
  Speaker 4: was thinking about the ways that people kind of discount
• 37:18
  Speaker 4: how many black people are in the South, and it's
• 37:21
  Speaker 4: just like, oh, yeah, we should just saw off that
• 37:23
  Speaker 4: part of the country and like move on from it.
• 37:26
  Speaker 4: And I'm just like, so, we're just gonna leave black
• 37:30
  Speaker 4: queer people to just kind of what languish, like what?
• 37:34
  Speaker 4: And it really breaks my heart because there's a lot
• 37:37
  Speaker 4: of cultural beauty to these places and a lot of
• 37:42
  Speaker 4: black joy in these places that is being discounted because
• 37:46
  Speaker 4: of terrible, racist, homophobic monsters. And I just I don't know.
• 37:53
  Speaker 4: I just want people to, you know, watch movies like
• 37:55
  Speaker 4: Miss Juneteenth and see the beauty and cultural grips roofs
• 38:00
  Speaker 4: of the South and understand that the South is worth
• 38:03
  Speaker 4: fighting for in my mind, but I have family in
• 38:07
  Speaker 4: the South, so I'm looking at it differently than I
• 38:09
  Speaker 4: think some people do. But yeah, mister and tenth kind
• 38:12
  Speaker 4: of brought up a lot of ideas about just the
• 38:15
  Speaker 4: South where it's at right now, who lives there, who
• 38:19
  Speaker 4: deserves our care, and sort of the people who slip
• 38:22
  Speaker 4: through the cracks, because a woman like Turquoise is not
• 38:26
  Speaker 4: really the lead you get in a lot of films like,
• 38:28
  Speaker 4: she's working class, she's struggling, she's a single mom, and
• 38:33
  Speaker 4: the film really recognizes her humanity, and I think it's
• 38:36
  Speaker 4: our responsibility to recognize the humanity of people struggling in
• 38:40
  Speaker 4: the South in general.
• 38:42
  Speaker 3: Definitely, absolutely, And like you point out in your piece,
• 38:46
  Speaker 3: and I think we've kind of touched on this already,
• 38:48
  Speaker 3: but the story is quite small scale. You know, it's
• 38:51
  Speaker 3: about this like pretty specific microcosm of this pageant, and
• 38:57
  Speaker 3: it's happening over the course of it seems like only
• 39:01
  Speaker 3: maybe a couple months at most, But it's like it's
• 39:06
  Speaker 3: such a beautiful story that taps into so much of
• 39:11
  Speaker 3: what Turquoise's life is like and what she's dealing with.
• 39:16
  Speaker 3: And you know, she's a single mom, she's poor, she's
• 39:21
  Speaker 3: dealing with the attention of a few different men, none
• 39:25
  Speaker 3: of them seem like great romantic options for her. She
• 39:30
  Speaker 3: had to kind of relinquish the opportunity that she did
• 39:34
  Speaker 3: get by winning Miss June teenth, you know, a decade
• 39:37
  Speaker 3: and a half prior. I don't think it's ever said
• 39:41
  Speaker 3: outright in the movie, and maybe this is just my
• 39:43
  Speaker 3: head canon, but it seemed like she wasn't able to
• 39:48
  Speaker 3: quote unquote cash in on like the scholarship or the
• 39:52
  Speaker 3: you know, the opportunities that she uh received by winning,
• 39:58
  Speaker 3: because she got pregnant with Kai, and so she wasn't
• 40:02
  Speaker 3: able to either go to or finish her schooling. You know,
• 40:06
  Speaker 3: she had to raise her daughter.
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: And it felt like she implied, and again maybe I'm misreading,
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: but like she implied that her relationship with her mom
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: also made it all the more difficult and kind of
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: passion on that and like caring a lot for her
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: mom while she was struggling with addiction.
• 40:22
  Speaker 3: Definitely, right, So there's you know, all these variables that
• 40:28
  Speaker 3: kind of prevented her from reaching a certain potential, and
• 40:32
  Speaker 3: now she's so focused on making sure the same thing
• 40:36
  Speaker 3: doesn't happen for her daughter. But it manifests this like
• 40:41
  Speaker 3: really wonderful relatable story where like she knows what she
• 40:46
  Speaker 3: wants for her daughter, but she has to learn to
• 40:49
  Speaker 3: accept what her daughter actually wants for herself, and she
• 40:54
  Speaker 3: has to figure out what she wants for herself. So
• 40:56
  Speaker 3: she's like kind of projecting all this stuff onto Kai,
• 41:00
  Speaker 3: kind of ignoring what Kai clearly wants for Kai, and
• 41:05
  Speaker 3: also sort of ignoring what Turquoise wants or like what
• 41:09
  Speaker 3: she should maybe pursue and it's just like this story
• 41:15
  Speaker 3: of self discovery and like letting go to some extent,
• 41:19
  Speaker 3: but also like doing your best.
• 41:23
  Speaker 4: Yeah, definitely. I think one thing I was thinking about
• 41:28
  Speaker 4: is the way this country works.
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: The way this world works.
• 41:31
  Speaker 4: If you're struggling in poverty, you do not have the time,
• 41:35
  Speaker 4: the chance, and the opportunity to really dream, let alone
• 41:38
  Speaker 4: realize those dreams, which is what makes the ending of
• 41:42
  Speaker 4: Miss juneteen so beautiful. And while Turquoise is definitely struggling,
• 41:48
  Speaker 4: I think there are these really beautiful moments of communion
• 41:52
  Speaker 4: amongst black people, these really moving moments of joy and
• 41:57
  Speaker 4: just connection. And I would describe Miss June Teeth as
• 42:02
  Speaker 4: like a lo fi gem. I love, bombastic, gargantuan, monstrous,
• 42:09
  Speaker 4: you know, money dumped into them kind of movies. I love,
• 42:13
  Speaker 4: you know, the small movies as well. I love I
• 42:15
  Speaker 4: just love movies. But you know, watching a lo fi
• 42:19
  Speaker 4: gem like this is it's really refreshing because it's like
• 42:23
  Speaker 4: you're kind of stepping into the lives of other people
• 42:25
  Speaker 4: for a brief period of time. And what makes I
• 42:29
  Speaker 4: think Miss June Teeth so strong as you get this
• 42:31
  Speaker 4: feeling of history, you can feel the history that preceded
• 42:34
  Speaker 4: the movie, and you have a vision of how their
• 42:37
  Speaker 4: lives will continue afterwards and how different it will be.
• 42:41
  Speaker 4: And I really like that hopefulness and also that sense
• 42:44
  Speaker 4: of time, and like you really do feel like you're
• 42:48
  Speaker 4: just kind of, oh, I'm just stepping into the lives
• 42:49
  Speaker 4: of these people in this moment of their life, and
• 42:52
  Speaker 4: they're just living their life. And it's just really nice
• 42:55
  Speaker 4: to watch black people just being just like living, no
• 43:00
  Speaker 4: matter like the circumstances of that life. But like, you know,
• 43:04
  Speaker 4: I think it's important, and I hate using that word,
• 43:07
  Speaker 4: but I do think it is important to witness people
• 43:11
  Speaker 4: of color, queer folks just kind of living and not
• 43:15
  Speaker 4: having their lives be completely defined by their marginalization. It
• 43:20
  Speaker 4: can infuse the story, of course it will, but having
• 43:25
  Speaker 4: so many of these so called diverse stories that we're
• 43:29
  Speaker 4: getting be so obsessed with the struggle is really.
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: Frustrating, absolutely sure.
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: And I feel like that goes back to the Oscar
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: discussion we were having earlier, where it's like the performances
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: that pain is so central to are the ones that
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: are uplifted, and it seems like the ones that get
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: the institutional backing. I wanted to share a quote from
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: Channing Godfree People's that sort of speaks to that point.
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: This is from when the movie was released. She says,
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: I believe the kind of work I want to do
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: is tell stories about humanity, and especially the humanity of
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: black folks. When you talk about Charles Burnett's Killer of
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: Sheep and My Brother's Wedding, Julie Dash's Daughters of the Dust,
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: you get to see black folks in these really natural
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: environments with all their subtleties. These are the films where
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: you see black folks just be I talked a little
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: bit earlier about this authentic community I grew up in.
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: It gave me this sense and I could just sit
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: in this community and just watch and take it in.
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: I believe in authentic dialogue. I'm a stickler to stain
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: close to the script because I'm showing a community on
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: screen that hasn't been seen before. Growing up in this community,
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: there's so much that you feel. I love subtlety and
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: nuance and finding those tiny human moments. Those are so
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: important to a character's journey, and those are the moments
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: that feel the most real to me, and that comes
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: across in every single frame of this movie, and I think, like, yeah,
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: also connects to what you're talking about Indelica about the
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: extreme specificity of this movie. And part of what makes
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: it feel so effortless is because this is chanting Godfree
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: People's like lived experience and something that she had a
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: vested interest in wanting to share with the world as
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: a filmmaker. And it just feels, I don't know, every
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: element of this community feels like you're saying like real,
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: like almost like a documentary, like you're just stepping into
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: this world that doesn't explain itself to you, you just
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: explore exactly.
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.
• 45:24
  Speaker 4: And one thing I want to really call out is
• 45:27
  Speaker 4: Channing godfre People's like amazing direction. This is like, you know,
• 45:33
  Speaker 4: witnessing someone's first feature, and it's just like so realized
• 45:38
  Speaker 4: like this, and you can get across like, oh, this
• 45:41
  Speaker 4: is their voice. And there's such warmth to both the
• 45:44
  Speaker 4: direction and the cinematography and such detailing that's really beautiful.
• 45:50
  Speaker 4: And it's the kind of direction that doesn't call attention
• 45:53
  Speaker 4: to itself, but it is making very smart choices about
• 45:57
  Speaker 4: framing and where bodies are in the space that they're inhabiting.
• 46:01
  Speaker 4: I was really, really taken in by her direction when
• 46:05
  Speaker 4: I first watched it and rewatching it.
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: It's so beautiful and and like there's so many I
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: don't know on the rewatch of this movie just seeing
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: all these because she so fully understands and knows how
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: she wants to present the Fort Worth community and this
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: black community in particular. You get all of these subtleties
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: of like different kinds of communities within this community. Like
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: you see the church community and how that affects Turquoise
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: and Kai. You see the pageant community, which can be
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: really exclusive and can be extremely judgmental, and you know,
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: Turquoise is obviously feeling judged by a community that at
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: one point was really important to her. And then I think,
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: like the best of it is you see the community
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: at the bar, which is like so loving and supportive.
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: And I always get like emotional when when Woymen has
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: a heart attack and everyone's like, we have to fix this,
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: and we have to fix it by like coming together
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: and having a party, and that's how we're going to
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: support him through this, and it works, And like, I
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: just I love that there's so many different worlds within
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: the world and and it's not you're not like told
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: by the movie, like this community is good, this community
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: not good. Like you're you just start following Turquoise as
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: she navigates it.
• 47:25
  Speaker 3: It's also interesting to see how she upholds certain standards
• 47:31
  Speaker 3: that the pageant has, which you know, it can be
• 47:35
  Speaker 3: pretty rigid. They're pretty what's the word for, when I
• 47:42
  Speaker 3: don't know, it's almost like a bourgeois kind of Oh,
• 47:45
  Speaker 3: you have to like pick up your little It was
• 47:47
  Speaker 3: a very like Titanic, start from the outside and work
• 47:51
  Speaker 3: your way in kind of where it's like pick up
• 47:54
  Speaker 3: your wine glass, pick up your dinner fork, all this
• 47:56
  Speaker 3: stuff and not that like Turquoise is like practicing anything
• 48:02
  Speaker 3: like that at home. But she again understands how this
• 48:07
  Speaker 3: opportunity is one of very few, if not the only
• 48:11
  Speaker 3: opportunity she's going to be able to like provide for
• 48:14
  Speaker 3: her daughter to get out of this kind of cycle
• 48:17
  Speaker 3: of poverty. So she's kind of monitoring her daughter's behavior,
• 48:23
  Speaker 3: who she hangs out with, what she wears, how she speaks.
• 48:26
  Speaker 3: She's like often correcting her grammar because she kind of
• 48:31
  Speaker 3: has to like align with the expectations of the pageant
• 48:36
  Speaker 3: and the propriety and the femininity and the beauty because
• 48:39
  Speaker 3: even though again it's like we've talked about this a
• 48:42
  Speaker 3: lot on various Pageant episodes. It's like, yes, this is
• 48:45
  Speaker 3: a contest to grant a scholarship, But if that is
• 48:51
  Speaker 3: like the most important part of it, why are the
• 48:54
  Speaker 3: girls like walking around in these expensive gowns and like
• 48:58
  Speaker 3: in full make hair and makeup and stuff like that
• 49:01
  Speaker 3: if it really is about a scholastic thing, Like why
• 49:04
  Speaker 3: is appearance a factor at all? Kind of thing? But
• 49:07
  Speaker 3: like Turquoise kind of has no choice but to sort
• 49:10
  Speaker 3: of uphold those standards. And it's interesting because it's like
• 49:15
  Speaker 3: some of these movies, like Dumplin was sort of like
• 49:18
  Speaker 3: about trying to dismantle the pageant industrial complex, yeah, which
• 49:24
  Speaker 3: is like, you know, that's not what this movie is about.
• 49:28
  Speaker 3: And it's just like, yeah, Kai is just like trying
• 49:32
  Speaker 3: to be a regular teenager pursuing her own interests. Her
• 49:35
  Speaker 3: mother is like trying to open up this door for
• 49:42
  Speaker 3: this scholarship opportunity. I don't know, It's just like a
• 49:44
  Speaker 3: lot of interesting things that you're watching the characters navigate
• 49:48
  Speaker 3: and balance, and like, you know, Kai is doing this
• 49:51
  Speaker 3: to please her mom even though she clearly doesn't want to.
• 49:55
  Speaker 3: It's just it's a lot of like interesting again, very
• 49:58
  Speaker 3: relatable things to watch unfold, especially front like in a
• 50:03
  Speaker 3: mother daughter relationship dynamic.
• 50:07
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and it's just so refreshing to watch mother daughter
• 50:12
  Speaker 4: stories in film because like everything is so obsessed with
• 50:16
  Speaker 4: father sons.
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: We talk about this all the time, or.
• 50:20
  Speaker 4: Even just father and child slight rant, Like I'm dragging
• 50:24
  Speaker 4: my feet to watch Picard's season three, which I've heard
• 50:27
  Speaker 4: is actually good and justifies the show existing. Finally, but
• 50:32
  Speaker 4: spoiler alert for people they decide to get like that
• 50:36
  Speaker 4: doctor Beverly Crusher and John Luke Bokard actually have a
• 50:39
  Speaker 4: kid together, which he didn't know about, right, and of
• 50:42
  Speaker 4: course it's a son. And I'm like, how many more
• 50:44
  Speaker 4: father sons do we need in Star Trek.
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: Especially because Picard and has mother like there's like there's
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: a bud. Yes, you don't get a lot of mother
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: son's stories either, like.
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: No, you don't.
• 50:53
  Speaker 4: You would think that mothers don't have sons or something,
• 50:55
  Speaker 4: or they do. Mothers die. It's just really frustrating, and
• 50:59
  Speaker 4: I think miss Jiunteenth is like really good at teasing
• 51:03
  Speaker 4: out the complications that come between a single mother and
• 51:07
  Speaker 4: her like only daughter, whether there's other siblings or not,
• 51:09
  Speaker 4: you know what I mean. And I think a lot,
• 51:12
  Speaker 4: at least speaking personally, a lot of the growth and
• 51:15
  Speaker 4: work that comes with that relationship, especially if there's like
• 51:18
  Speaker 4: imbalances for whatever reason, is like the mother coming to
• 51:23
  Speaker 4: terms with the fact that you can't make your daughter
• 51:26
  Speaker 4: into the woman you wish you were. You have to
• 51:29
  Speaker 4: nurture the woman she's becoming. Damn. That was a banger line.
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: That is the truth. Cut it printed there.
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: It's true, And I feel like that is like something
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: that any daughter of any mother can relate to to
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: some extent.
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: But I don't know, I'm trying to think of an
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: example of this.
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: It's just done so well and just again like effortlessly
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: in this movie where you know that what Turquoise like,
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: you understand why Turkose is doing what she's doing, but
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: you can also clearly see that it's miss guided and
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: it's not what her daughter wants or needs right now.
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: And then you can also see the movie, you know,
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: grants Turquoise the grace while like making it not like
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: you know, tiptoeing around like clearly Kai doesn't want this,
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: but you can also see how Turquoise's treatment from her
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: own mother informs that, and like, I think that there's
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: I don't know, I mean I can relate with this
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: in my relationship with my own mom of like my
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: mom was, you know, deprived of a lot of love
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: and Adam mother who was struggling with addiction her entire life,
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: and the relationship was strained, and you know, it's like
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: people respond to that experience differently and how it comes out.
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: And Turquoise is like a little bit of just like,
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: I know what's right, this is the opportunity.
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: Just trust me.
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: Let's get just get through this and you can do
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: what you want later, which is like a very I
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: think common thing. And it's not it's not it doesn't
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: make you a bad parent, but it was interesting watching
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: them navigate that kind of together.
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: I don't know, it's just like so thoughtful.
• 53:05
  Speaker 3: I love it definitely. Some of the most like endearing
• 53:09
  Speaker 3: and tender moments of the movie is Turquoise and Kai bonding.
• 53:15
  Speaker 3: For example, the like the cake scene when and a
• 53:20
  Speaker 3: lot of these moments are like kind of sprinkled with
• 53:24
  Speaker 3: like the tension that exists between them, the way that
• 53:26
  Speaker 3: tension is bound to exist between any like teenage kid
• 53:32
  Speaker 3: and their parent but it's like the cake scene starts
• 53:37
  Speaker 3: out with Kai is like, I don't know, sitting in
• 53:40
  Speaker 3: a dark closet on her phone, like probably texting her
• 53:43
  Speaker 3: boyfriend and clearly like, you know, feeling a certain way
• 53:48
  Speaker 3: about the power being shut off. And she says something
• 53:51
  Speaker 3: like it's you know, it's my birthday.
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: Can we go out?
• 53:53
  Speaker 3: And Turquoise can't afford that, but she's already bought this
• 53:57
  Speaker 3: cake and she's like, you know, we're gonna celebrate here.
• 54:00
  Speaker 3: And then they have this fun little like smearing cake
• 54:04
  Speaker 3: on each other's faces, and it's again like both of
• 54:07
  Speaker 3: them trying to like alleviate the tension of this like
• 54:11
  Speaker 3: situation and these circumstances. And then there's another sweet scene
• 54:15
  Speaker 3: where Kai is teaching her dad some of her choreography,
• 54:21
  Speaker 3: and then her mom comes home and she's just like, oh,
• 54:25
  Speaker 3: what are you guys even doing? But then she joins
• 54:28
  Speaker 3: in and like learns some of the dance moves too,
• 54:30
  Speaker 3: and it's just like these sweet moments that show, yes,
• 54:35
  Speaker 3: there is tension in this relationship and yes they don't
• 54:38
  Speaker 3: always get along, and Kai probably feels a bit suffocated
• 54:43
  Speaker 3: by all this pressure that Turquoise is projecting onto her,
• 54:47
  Speaker 3: but they still find these like beautiful moments of levity,
• 54:51
  Speaker 3: which was just like so wonderful to see.
• 54:54
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, it's a very intimate film. Is a film
• 54:57
  Speaker 4: that really prizes intimacy between and it's characters, and those
• 55:02
  Speaker 4: tender moments you're highlighting, I think are really good examples
• 55:06
  Speaker 4: of that.
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: I wanted to, Yeah, go over to We've talked about
• 55:12
  Speaker 2: it a little bit, but just kind of a comforull
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: circle on it Turquis's relationship with her mom, Yeah, and
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: how that is sort of unspooled throughout the course of
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: the movie.
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: I just thought it was so well done. And again,
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: just like.
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: This movie allows its characters to have shades of gray
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: in this way that feels really unusual, where it's like
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: Charlotte clearly was not the parent that Turquoise needed, Like
• 55:39
  Speaker 2: she seems to be kind of, i mean struggling with
• 55:43
  Speaker 2: addiction in a way that she still seems, you know,
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: at grandma age, not ready to acknowledge. And that's really
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think that the performance by Lorie Hayes
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: is so beautiful and painful because it's you know, you
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: can be you can hold some anger for Charlotte for
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: not being the parent that Turquoise needed, and also see
• 56:04
  Speaker 2: that she's been suffering for so much of her life
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: and is doing I mean, everyone's doing the best they can,
• 56:11
  Speaker 2: and she's not able to be there for Turquoise or
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: Kai in the way they need, and that's just presented
• 56:17
  Speaker 2: as something that is unfair and sad, which is often
• 56:21
  Speaker 2: how having someone in your life struggling with addiction can feel.
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: And Turquoise is so gentle with her, and it just like,
• 56:31
  Speaker 2: I don't know, that scene got me really emotional. It
• 56:34
  Speaker 2: is really hard to watch someone have to navigate that
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: situation and also be like, that's my mom, you know,
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: like I want the best for this person and they
• 56:44
  Speaker 2: cannot show up for me, but I can show up
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: for them right now.
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: And still I like that.
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: After that, it's not that's not the conclusion of that relationship.
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: Charlotte doesn't change overnight. She's been this way towards Turquoise
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: for a long time and is still you know, essentially
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: ambushes her and Kai and Turquoise is like this, this
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: is the line we've found, the line congratulations, which is
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: sad in some ways because she's severing the relationship with
• 57:15
  Speaker 2: her mom, at least for now, but I thought it
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: was really I mean, that's like a really great moment
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: for her, and you see the kind of spectrum of
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: what this mother daughter relationship has looked like over the
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: years in without a lot of time, and it's so
• 57:30
  Speaker 2: beautifully written. And again just like Nicole Bihar is unbelievable
• 57:34
  Speaker 2: in the way she performs those scenes. And yeah, I
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: don't know, it's like a relatively small part of the movie,
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: but like Turquoise growing up with a parent who was
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: both suffocating in a different way and struggling with addiction.
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: I just thought it was like so good. I haven't
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: seen that relationship done like that many times.
• 57:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah, truly, and it's I mean, Turquoise, the patience she
• 57:59
  Speaker 3: shows her mom is I don't have that kind of
• 58:03
  Speaker 3: patience like It's also it's just it was such an
• 58:07
  Speaker 3: interesting We were touching on this as well already, but
• 58:11
  Speaker 3: the way that information about the Charlotte character is woven
• 58:15
  Speaker 3: into the narrative, where at first it seems like, you know,
• 58:19
  Speaker 3: you kind of have a sort of a stock character
• 58:23
  Speaker 3: of like the overbearing religious mother. And it came as
• 58:29
  Speaker 3: such a surprise to me when she shows up at
• 58:32
  Speaker 3: the bar and she's like blackout drunk, and you're like, wait,
• 58:35
  Speaker 3: is this the same woman who had just been like
• 58:38
  Speaker 3: talking about needing to save her daughter and like wanting
• 58:42
  Speaker 3: to bring Turquoise and Kai to church to you.
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: Know, pray.
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: And it's such a little detail, but the fact that
• 58:49
  Speaker 2: like there's like a little line from Charlotte saying that
• 58:52
  Speaker 2: she didn't think that Turquoise was working tonight, and so
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: also that she's still it's an ongoing quest to hide
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: her addiction from her daughter and from her family, which
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: is like, yeah, so simple and so quick, but definitely hits.
• 59:07
  Speaker 3: And prior to that, because I think there are three
• 59:09
  Speaker 3: main beats where the Charlotte character is involved. The first
• 59:13
  Speaker 3: one is the scene where Turquoise takes Kai to the
• 59:17
  Speaker 3: church to meet up with her mom and say, I
• 59:19
  Speaker 3: have to work tonight. Can you watch my daughter? And
• 59:23
  Speaker 3: Charlotte is like no. She basically says like kind of
• 59:27
  Speaker 3: gives an ultimatum like I'll be more involved in both
• 59:30
  Speaker 3: of your lives if you accept Jesus into your heart,
• 59:33
  Speaker 3: and Turquoise is like, well pass, so never mind. And
• 59:38
  Speaker 3: then and then Charlotte says something like really her full
• 59:41
  Speaker 3: She's like, well, she's not my daughter, so you know, like, yeah,
• 59:44
  Speaker 3: why should I bother in.
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: Front of Kai too? Yeah, it's like, gee horrible.
• 59:49
  Speaker 4: Yeah that was a really cuol. It really stuck out
• 59:52
  Speaker 4: to me.
• 59:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, damn yeah, which, you know, shows the hypocrisy that
• 59:57
  Speaker 3: a lot of religious fundamentalist type people tend to display.
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 3: And the hypocrisy keeps going because in the second beat,
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 3: she previously Charlotte was like, oh, you're working at the bar,
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 3: you know, you're doing the devil's work, and then she
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 3: is at this same bar where this quote unquote devil's
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 3: work happens, and she's drinking heavily. And to be clear,
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 3: I'm not casting judgment on alcoholism, but again it's.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: The hypocrisy element.
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 3: It's yeah, it's the hypocrisy for Charlotte to judge Turquoise
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 3: for working at a bar, and then for Charlotte to
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 3: turn around and get drunk at that same bar to
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 3: the point where like her daughter has to bring her
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 3: home and take care of her. And then the third beat,
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 3: Charlotte pretends that never happened and she's in church again,
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 3: and this is the scene where she's trying to you know,
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 3: save Turquoise and Ki and she's continuing to judge Turquoise, Well, what.
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 2: Would really help her is like helping out with Kai,
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: like the simple things that Turquoise is.
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: Asking for, right that.
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 3: And then the final beat of all this is Charlotte
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 3: becoming physically abusive to Turquoise, which is like the last
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 3: straw for Turquoise. So yeah, it was just like I
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 3: was fascinated to see it play out the way it does,
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 3: because again, it feels very authentic and realistic in a
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 3: way that relationships like that are not often characterized in
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 3: a way that feels so authentic.
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think one of the things we haven't touched
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 2: on yet is Turquoise's relationship with the men in the story.
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, who wants to start.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 4: I'm glad she chose herself. We need more stories of
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 4: women being like you know these you know, not to
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 4: say I don't want romance, but these guys aren't right
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 4: for me. I'm just going to live my life. We
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 4: do not have enough stories like that. So many stories
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 4: about women would like end this one very differently. It
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 4: would revolve around her making a choice between Kendrick Sampson's
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 4: character Ronnie and her boss at the funeral home, Bacon.
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 4: But that's not the story that you know, Channing Godfrey
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 4: People's is smart enough to understand, like that's not really
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 4: authentic to Turquoise's story or what this character needs, which
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 4: is to figure out things on her own, like to
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 4: really figure out, like what do I want for myself
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 4: and for my daughter in a way that is holistic
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 4: and recognizes her own desires and the desires.
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 1: Of her daughter.
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 4: I think neither of them are bad guys, which I like.
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 4: I like that, you know, they have their faults obviously. Ronnie,
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 4: I think specifically decided to use the money for the
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 4: dress for something else because there's that moment in the bedroom,
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 4: right and they're having a conversation or like they're having
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 4: a conversation. At some point he's like, oh, but someone
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 4: is like selling their like whatever, and like, you know,
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 4: this could lead to me opening up my own kind
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 4: of car shop business or whatever, and like Turquoise is like, uh,
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 4: you gotta be And it's just like they're not. Neither
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 4: of them are bad people, even though I feel like
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 4: Ronnie doesn't. I mean, doing something like that with the
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 4: money shows, in my opinion, a little bit of a
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 4: lack of respect and understanding, right, Yeah, And then Bacon
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 4: is so obsessed with whatever image in his head he
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 4: has of turquoise. He refuses to acknowledge that she's not
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 4: interested in him, and like she does not need him
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 4: to solve her problems, like she didn't do that on
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 4: her own. Yeah, come on, Bacon, Like dude.
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 2: There are times it's just yeah, it feels it's so
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 2: funny because I feel like Bacon in some ways presents
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 2: himself is like I'm the mature option, but he's acting
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 2: like a teenager in the way that he talks to her,
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 2: where he's like someday, it's like it just feels very like,
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 2: I don't know, there's a little bit of an entitlement there,
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 2: but it's just like also emotionally immature, the way that
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 2: he's like, well, sure you're not interested now, and you were,
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 2: you haven't been interested for fifteen years, but one of
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 2: these days.
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 3: They just open your eyes and see me. And it's like, no,
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 3: if it hasn't happened yet, Uh sorry Bacon, but uh.
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 2: And it doesn't make him a bad guy, like like
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 2: you're saying in dacol Like in the same way, it's
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 2: like Ronnie again is like one of the one of
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 2: the people who cannot show up for Turquoise and Kai
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 2: in the way that they need. But you can also
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 2: tell that he very like he loves his daughter, and
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 2: he's not made out to be a bad person or
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 2: anything like that. He's made out to be someone who
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 2: is who. I think that like the main I guess
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 2: flaw of his that stood out to me. She kind
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 2: of just said in Talco was like that he sort
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 2: of undercut the amount of work that Turquoise had done
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 2: in raising their daughter. It doesn't mean he doesn't love
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 2: his daughter, but he like there's a few different times
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 2: where he sort of just says.
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: Like, well, you'll figure it out.
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 2: You always do, and it's like, well, she shouldn't have to,
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 2: like if you did what you said you were gonna do.
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 2: And but again, it just feel it feels like a
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 2: person that you've met before in all the like messiness
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 2: that people can be. And also that like Turquoise, I
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 2: don't know, I felt for her in the way that
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 2: it's like she's still clearly attracted to Ronnie and like
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 2: has love for him, and it seems like to me,
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 2: again I'm like probably projecting all over the movie, but
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 2: like that like she always is like holding out hope
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 2: that he's gonna show up in the way that she
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 2: needs him to, but like nose deep down, he probably
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 2: won't because she is usually prepared for Ronnie to not
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 2: show up in the way that she needs him to,
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 2: but still has love for him, and like that's a
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 2: that's a you know, also very different, painful dynamic to
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 2: be in that I feel like you don't see presented
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: in that way of like they're not a bad person,
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 2: but they can't do what I need, and so it's
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 2: like I have to walk away. And yeah, she chooses herself.
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: There's so few examples of that. Yeah, and that we
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: get her happy ending, and it makes sense, Like I
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 2: feel like sometimes you'll get like if a character chooses themselves,
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 2: it requires this like disx machina writing to be like
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 2: and then this amazing coincidence happened, so they'll be fine.
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 2: But it's like no Turquoise had, you know, was able
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 2: to make it happen for herself, and her buying the
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 2: bar was her idea, and it was an idea that
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 2: was like supported by her community at the bar and
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 2: like worked out in a way that felt very very
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 2: real and still optimistic and happy ending.
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 3: I just hope she gets better tips than a quarter.
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 1: Moving forward.
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 3: That one guy is like a little something for you,
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 3: and his tip is twenty five cents, right, yeah.
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 4: Yeah, what am I supposed to do with that? I
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 4: can even buy bubble gum with that?
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 1: Like what in this economy? What?
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 4: Yeah? This twenty five cents? Even, Like what is that?
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: What is it?
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 4: You might as well give me a penny?
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 1: Thanks?
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the men. It's like what she wants from Ronnie
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 3: is to be more reliable, and with that probably comes
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 3: from like financial stability, which is what Bacon has and
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 3: is offering. But she has no romantic feelings for him,
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 3: it seems, and Ronnie she does. But again, he's not reliable.
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 3: He might have a gambling problem. It's kind of suggested.
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 3: He also brings Ki into that situation where like, oh,
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 3: some people start like brawling in front and she's like
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 3: visibly getting frightened and he's like, no, it's all good.
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 3: And it's like you shouldn't be bringing a teenager into
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 3: a scenario like that. That's potentially very dangerous. So like,
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 3: you know, he's making some choices, but again, like this
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 3: is a movie where people are making mistakes constantly and
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 3: it's just a matter of who is going to learn
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 3: from their mistakes, who is going to grow, And I'm
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 3: glad that we're focusing on a character who demonstrates so
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 3: much growth by the end, Like Turquoise is like you
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 3: see it with her finally acknowledging that her daughter wants
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 3: to dance and saying like when are the dance tryouts?
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 3: She realizes that to be able to kind of have
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 3: any autonomy over her finances and job is to like
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 3: just take it. And it's a huge step and it's
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 3: a gamble, but it feels right, and so she buys
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 3: the bar. And I like that scene where Wayman is
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 3: Turquoise is talking about the American dream and he's like,
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 3: there is no American dream for black folks. Like whatever
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 3: you have, that's yours, like cling to for dear life,
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 3: and people are going to try to take it away
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 3: from you. But like for so many of us, that's
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 3: the best we can hope for. And now she does
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 3: have that, she has like her own things. She's gonna
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 3: and she's gonna fix that. Damn the stall in the bathroom,
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 3: the door on the cooler, and I'm just like, I
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 3: almost wish we got like a scene a few months
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 3: down the road where she had like made some slight
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 3: adjustments to the bar to like make it a little
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 3: more pleasant.
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 4: To work out.
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 3: But yeah, sorry, I'm just like rambling, but it's just
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 3: such a nice story with such wonderful character characters is
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 3: individuals and then like character dynamics.
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we explore. Is there anything else anyone else wanted
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 1: to touch on?
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 4: I hope Channing Godfrey People's announces another Reilson that is
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 4: like my main thing right now.
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 2: So I did a little bit of googling while we've
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 2: been talking, and it seems as if in twenty twenty one,
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 2: but again, that's over two years ago she started work
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 2: on a TV adaptation of Miss Juneteenth. But I haven't
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 2: been able to find much outside of that announcement that would.
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 1: Be really cool.
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 2: I was like, I mean, that would possibly give Caitlin
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 2: what you were just talking about, like a more a
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 2: deeper look at this world or a longer timeline or
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 2: whatever that looks like to her. I mean, I hope
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 2: that that happens. But it was announced, you know, two
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 2: and a half years ago now, and I haven't seen
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 2: an update. Fingers across, I don't know. I mean, yeah,
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 2: I just I would I would watch anything that she
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 2: releases really like, yeah, and I really love I mean,
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 2: I love just in general, when directors and writers.
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 1: Have a vested interest in a location. I just love that.
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 2: And it seems like she wants to continue to set
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 2: a lot of her work in Fort Worth and in
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 2: the South and in like small communities, and it's like
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 2: some of my favorite stuff.
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 1: I really I hope we see more from her sand same. Yeah.
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 3: And then the last thing I wanted to just briefly
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 3: touch on was that there are a few allusions to
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 3: the fact that Turquois used to be a stripper. Oh yes,
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 3: it doesn't seem like she's ashamed about it. She is
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 3: somewhat secretive about it, But to me, it felt like
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 3: she was kind of like keeping it on the down
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 3: low to like keep up appearances because of the the
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 3: propriety and the etiquette that the pageant is so concerned with, like,
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 3: you know, Kai and her family have to be you know,
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 3: quote unquote model citizens sort of. But when Ky learns
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 3: about this and she confronts her mother, Turquoise is just like,
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 3: I'm not sorry for being able to put food on
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 3: the table, and she kind of implies that she did
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 3: this out of desperation, which, like you could argue, is
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 3: like sort of shamy of sex work. But also again
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 3: it's just like she's not This isn't some like dark
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 3: secret that she's holding on to. It's more like, I
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 3: did what I had to do. It wasn't ideal for me.
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 3: I wish I didn't have to do that, but I'm
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 3: trying to make sure that you if that's not something
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 3: you want to do in your future, like I'm trying
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 3: to provide other paths for you.
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean it.
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 2: Didn't strike me as shamey towards sex work. I think
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 2: that it was like it felt like in the moments
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 2: it came out, it felt to me more like Turquoise
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 2: was trying to navigate the stigma she's aware it has,
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 2: and also just like acknowledging that that was not what
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 2: she wanted her end game job to be in a
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 2: way that didn't seem like it was cruel or dismissive
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 2: of people who do want to be strippers for a
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 2: long time and like really loved that job, it wasn't
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 2: a job that she loved.
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 1: And also I.
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 2: Think I don't know, it didn't really ping for me
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 2: as a shaming moment.
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 4: Yeah, same, Yeah, same. I thought that was a very
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 4: revealing moment about like the boundaries and dynamics between Turquoise
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 4: and Kai, and like how Kai looks at her mother,
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 4: and like there were moments watching it where I like
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 4: so felt for Kai because I've like been in her
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 4: place where you're just like dealing with such tension with
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 4: your mother. But then I think, like, you know, the
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 4: parent child relationship, often it takes a very long time
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 4: for children to recognize like, oh, my parent is just
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 4: a person. They lived this whole life before me and
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 4: even since they've had me that I'm not going to
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 4: know everything about. And I think that's like what that
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 4: moment is kind of touching on, like the parts of
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 4: your parents you don't really know. And I think for
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 4: Kai it was like, oh wait, there's a lot about
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 4: my mom I don't realize, and how much she works
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 4: and tries to figure things out for me. And I
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 4: think the way Channing Godfrey People's Rights and directs that
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 4: moment is really sharp in its understanding of the characters,
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 4: and it's like a closer shot of both of them
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 4: and like you can kind of it's really just smart
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 4: character work in terms of framing and like giving these
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 4: performances room to breathe in a way that can reveal
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 4: further layers about such a moment. I really, yeah, I
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 4: thought that moment was really interesting.
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 1: That's right. I also felt something.
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 2: I mean, it doesn't exactly I mean, it thankfully doesn't
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 2: exactly mirror the scene between Turquoise and Charlotte when Charlotte
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 2: needs to be taken care of and needs to be
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 2: taken out at the bar, But I feel like that
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 2: is the moment where Turquis is very much the child
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 2: and is like, my mom needs me to be this
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 2: person for her right now, this is what I'm going
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 2: to do. You sort of see that in the moment
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 2: with Kai and the birthday cake, where she's frustrated that
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 2: the power has been turned off, like this is not
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 2: the birthday she wants. She's we know she's disappointed about it,
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 2: but you can sort of see her make the decision
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 2: of like I'm going to go with this because my
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 2: mom needs me to do this right now for her,
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 2: of like, you know, Turquis just needed her to take
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 2: the cake and be happy and like even perform like
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 2: happiness in this really difficult moment for both of them,
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 2: and it's so I feel like that's such a such
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 2: a part of like becoming an adult, of like recognizing
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 2: those moments and even when it's painful, like Kai true,
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 2: I mean, and not so much of why she's doing
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 2: the pageant in the first place. And then over the
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 2: course of the movie, even though Kai is not the
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 2: main character of the movie, like learns to draw her
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 2: boundaries with her mother of like this is what I'm
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 2: able to give you, and you need to meet me
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 2: where I'm at too. But I really liked that just
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 2: like really subtle performance moment between them where they just
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 2: both have to they both decide like the power isn't
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 2: on and that has to be okay, and it's still
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 2: a birthday, and it's.
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 1: Just like such a yeah.
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 2: Again, it's like the combination of the writing and how
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 2: subtle and great both performances are that makes me cry.
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 1: It's really nice, beautiful. This movie obviously passes the Bechdel test.
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 1: I mean, I don't think we really need to talk
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 1: on you. Most of it does.
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 3: Yes, indeed, so onto our nipple scale.
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 1: Where other ill fated title No, it's perfect.
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 3: Where we rate the movie on a scale of zero
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 3: to five nipples based on examining the movie through an
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 3: intersectional feminist lens. This is a rare moment on the
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 3: Bechdel Cast because we're usually dolling out one nipple for
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 3: a movie. I'm going to give five nipples yea to Missjuneteenth.
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 3: I really can't think of anything to criticize about it
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 3: from an intersectional lens. I think it's just really beautiful
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 3: in the way that it handles the story, the characters,
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 3: their relationships, the balance between showing the things that they're
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 3: dealing with the things that they're struggling with in kind
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 3: of balancing that with moments of love and levity and joy.
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 3: And I love the realism of it all, the fact
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 3: that the movie had the guts to not award Kai
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 3: with like one of the runners up or the Queen,
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 3: like because every other movie would have been like and
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 3: she won because she pulled out all the stops and
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 3: did this.
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 2: It possesses the bravery of School of Rock in that way. Yeah,
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 2: I love I love when the main character doesn't get
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 2: the prize. It's always like a more rewarding viewing experience.
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah, because what's more important is like the lessons they
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 3: learned along the way, and sure would it have been
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 3: nice if she did get the scholarship. Yes, But also,
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 3: as Kai points out, like if I join the dance team,
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 3: I can get a scholarship through that, and that's actually
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 3: what I want to pursue. And even though there's not
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 3: like that big victory at the end, things definitely are
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 3: looking up for them with like this new ownership of
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 3: the bar and Kai is going to join the dance team.
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 3: So there's again just moments of like levity, there's an
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 3: understanding that this family stealing with a lot, but it's
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 3: all just like handled very beautifully. And this comes as
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 3: at no surprise because of who directed the film. We're
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 3: always talking about, okay, like who's handling this subject matter,
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 3: and because the writer director is a black woman.
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 2: From for her worth for like this is her youth
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 2: that she's like showing.
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 1: In this movie.
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, so goes to show why it's so important
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 3: for people of marginalized communities to have the chance to
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 3: tell their own stories and tell whatever stories they want
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 3: to tell. Ye and Channing Godfrey Peoples did an incredible job.
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 3: And yeah, like we said, I hope there's a lot
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 3: more on the horizon for her. So five nipples, I'll
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 3: spread them.
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 1: Among Channing love a spread.
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, and it's a delicious spread. Nicole Bahari, the
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 3: actor who plays Kai Alexis to quays again, still clear
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 3: on her pronunciation. So sorry Alexis those that's who gets
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 3: my nipples.
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 1: Yes, I'm gonna go five as well. Yeah.
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 2: This movie is it just it fucking rips. It is
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 2: like just spending time in a very specific world. I
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 2: love like you're saying, Angelica. I mean, there's not a
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 2: lot of movies about black people in the South, and
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 2: the fact that this seems to be, based on the
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 2: interviews she was giving the exact movie that Channing Godfrey
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 2: Peoples wanted to make, and she got to make it,
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 2: and she got to make it on her own terms,
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 2: and it's fucking awesome, And I just like, I really
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 2: love this movie. And I feel like of it's also
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 2: in the like pageant movie genre, completely.
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 1: Unlike anything else totally.
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 2: There's so many I feel like, I mean, I guess
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 2: you could make the argument for a little Miss Sunshine,
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 2: but I think like especially the Miss Juneteenth pageant and
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 2: the way that that information is introduced to the audience
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 2: I feel like very often you're almost as an audience member,
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 2: like over explained to and it almost feels like an
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 2: Adam McKay movie for a second of like, hey, let
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 2: me tell you about June teenth, and it's like it's
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 2: not chanting Godfrey people's job to tell me what June
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 2: teenth is. And it like you find out about this
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 2: community and what's important to them and their history very
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 2: organically through the world, and it's I love, I don't know.
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 2: I just love everything about this movie. The Mother Daughter Dynamics.
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 2: I feel like there's so many movies about generational trauma
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 2: right now that there's like generational trauma tropes that this
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 2: movie evades completely. You get little tastes of so many
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 2: different parts of this world. There's so much about Turquis
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 2: and Ronnie's relationship that we don't know, but you get
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 2: a feeling for it just on the performances and the writing.
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 2: There's so much ab out Turquoise and Charlotte. We don't know,
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 2: but you get a taste of it, and I just like,
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I think in the past couple of years,
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 2: I've really grown to appreciate movies that don't feel the
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 2: need to explain themselves to you like you're there, and
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 2: you can sort of get a feel for what the
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 2: world does when it's shown to you the way that
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 2: this movie shows you fort Worth and shows you Turquoise's
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 2: community and life.
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 1: And I just love it. Yeah, I'm gonna go five nipples.
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 1: How am I gonna spread my nipples? Let's see, let's see.
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 3: Oh, you know what. I want to give part of
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 3: my spread to shout Out opal Lee and her cameo
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 3: in the Yeah movie she gets She's included in my
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 3: spread as well.
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 1: I'm giving all of mine to Chanting Godfree People.
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna keep it simple and I really look forward
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 2: to seeing what she makes next and hope.
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 1: That it will get the support that it deserves.
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 3: Definitely. Yeah, and Jelika, how about you?
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 4: Five nipples all the way? Yeah, And I'm ann echo
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 4: Jamie and give them all to Channing Godfree Peoples. I find,
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 4: how you know, culturally realize and warm and striking and
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 4: aesthetically astute. The film is to be really inspiring. I
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 4: think there's this belief that all stories have already been told,
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 4: but watching something like Miss Juneteenth as a reminder that
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 4: because of how barred black people have been from telling
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 4: their own stories. That's not true. There's so many stories
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 4: that have yet to be told. And I think, you know,
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 4: Channing Godfrey Peoples is really inspiring for being able to
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 4: create a film she's really proud of and didn't have
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 4: to compromise on and offered audiences something they hadn't seen before,
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 4: whose importance lies in the artistry of it and the
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 4: care put into it, not just because it's you know,
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 4: showing this side of black identity. Yeah, I'm just you know,
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 4: just really taken by the film and I really love
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 4: it and hope people continue to discover it over the years.
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 3: For sure, I would say all stories about the straight
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 3: white male experience has been told, Yeah, but there are
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 3: so many others.
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, doesn't mean they'll stop trying.
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 4: They will not stop, never gonna stop.
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 1: But so frustrating. And I can't wait to see Nicole
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 1: Bahari lead another movie.
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 4: Yes, yes, damn it. She's such a good artist. She's
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 4: put so much care into her craft. I feel like
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 4: we've only like scratched the.
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 1: Surface of what she can do as a performer.
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 4: So for sure, I really hope for the best for
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 4: her career.
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 1: Same.
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well, Angelica Thank you so much for joining us.
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 3: This has been a delight. Come back anytime, truly.
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I would love to come back on Thank you
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 4: for inviting me. This was a really fun conversation.
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 1: First. Yeah, any movie you want, you can.
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's also fun to shit on a movie
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 2: for two hours if you've got one.
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's funny. I've become like known for some reason
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 4: as a contrarian, like I hate everything, but ha ha
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 4: see I talked about how I loved a movie for
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 4: like almost two hours, So fuck off haters.
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 3: And that's that beautiful vulgarity. Wait, what's the deliciously vulgar.
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 1: Aspect of that you all came for?
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 3: But truly, thank you again. And where can people check
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 3: out your work? Follow you online, et cetera.
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 4: Most of my work you can find at New York
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 4: Magazine site Vulture or in the pages of New York
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 4: Magazine because that's my job.
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 1: That's my main girl.
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 4: That's where most like ninety seven percent of my work
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 4: is just Vulture because it's my job. But I do
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 4: freelance occasionally. And you know, if you follow me on
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 4: Instagram at Angelica Jade Bastian, you can keep up with
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 4: my work, or you know, subscribe to my lovely newsletter,
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 4: which is updated every four months, because that's just how
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 4: I roll.
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 1: Sorry, y'all, but I love a jump scare newsletter.
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's like, hey, hey, y'all, it's been six months.
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 4: I'm back.
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 3: I'd rather that than like a weekly news I'm like,
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 3: get out of here, quit bugging me.
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 4: Yes, I leave me alone. What are you doing? What
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 4: do you have to say? Yeah, but my newsletter is
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 4: on substack and it's called Mad Women and Muses, and yeah,
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 4: you can find me there. You can find me at Vulture.
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 4: You can find me shooting the shit on Instagram lives
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 4: occasionally to talk shit about whatever movie I want to.
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 4: But yeah, you know, google me, you'll find me. I'm
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 4: around wonderful.
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 3: We're around two and you can follow us on Twitter
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 3: and Instagram at Bechtel Cast. You can go to our
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 3: Patreon aka Matreon, where we famously did a whole month
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 3: dedicated to Pageant movies, which we famous called Pagentuary, and
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 3: that plus many many other episodes. It's five dollars a month.
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 3: You get two bonus episodes every month, plus the back
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 3: catalog of what I Think one hundred and I don't know,
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 3: thirty fifty something like that bonus episodes. And that is
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 3: all at patreon dot com slash Bechdel Cast.
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 2: And you can get merch over at tipa dot com
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 2: slash the Bechtel Cast.
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 1: And yeah, with that, how do we how do we?
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 3: Okay? The runner up of this episode? No, I'm kidding,
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 3: it's not us.
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 1: You know who won?
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 3: All three of us? Well, we won Miss Spectyl Cast.
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 1: We're all. We did it again, five hundred episodes running.
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 3: We did it, yes, okay, bye by