Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Private Eye Lures Stepmom to Reveal Location of Tot Boy Lucas Hernandez’s Tiny Body

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Private Eye Lures Stepmom to Reveal Location of Tot Boy Lucas Hernandez’s Tiny Body · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: A five year old little boy seemingly goes missing, vanishing
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: into thin air, nothing left behind but an open door.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: What happened to Lucas? Take a listen to this nine
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: one one call, one location the emergency fund. Where's your son?
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: He's gone? When did he? Do you open? It wasn't long,
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: it wasn't lines one five? Here, ma'am, good god, ma'am.
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: How old is your son? But he was far five
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: years old? Someone take him? Did he want off? Man?
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: I don't know who you are? Hearing a nine one
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: one call, A frantic caller, the little boy is gone?
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: Where is Lucas? Let's take another listen to that nine
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: one one call? What is your son's name? Luca Lucas?
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: And he said he's five years old? Here he's five
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: years old? Is he white? Black? Hispanic? Asian? He's white?
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: Told he's got some Mexican canned him. No mean, he
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: said he's path Mexicans. Yes, okay, that's fine. How poll
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: is he? So? I don't I really, I don't worry
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: if that's fine? As etha meeting more heavy builds. He's
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: a little little old, Okay, do you remember what he
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: was wearing? I wasn't form with a talking I'm wearing
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: black sweat. You know, the Great Show was a bear
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: on it good. So often I would introduce nine one
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: one calls in front of a jury. Why because suddenly
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: it's not just a case or testimony anymore. It's real.
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: You are hearing a frantic nine one one call as
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: this little boy, Lucas, just five years old, is reported missing.
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: You can hardly make out what's being said with me
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: and all Star panel to make sense of Lucas's disappearance. TROYE. Layton,
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: renowned defens attorney, joining me out of LA. You can
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: find him at Slayton Lawyer's APC on Twitter at Troy Slayton.
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: Doctor Sherry Schwartz forensic psychologists specializing in forensic or criminal
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: pathology at Panthermitigation dot com. One of her most recent books,
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: one of many, Psychology of criminal Behavior. David Marshburn and
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: joining US private investigator, director of investigations for Search for
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: Me Foundation dot org, and former bounty hunter doctor Kendall Crowns,
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: Deputy Chief Medical Examiner of Travis County, Texas. That's Austin
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: and just to note, only about ten percent of all
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: medical examiners ever become a deputy chief and Christy, Missouri
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: Emmy Award winning Investigative reporter, president of Successful Strategies PR
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: and crisis communications firm. You can find her by going
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: to info at Christy Missouri dot com. By first, we're
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: not through with that. N I'm on one call. Listen,
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: not going going. I understand, I understand, Okay, I need
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: to get a little bit more information. Okay. When was
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: the last time you saw him? From around? Like? Who
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: turning your clog? Okay, and you're out? He was at home?
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: It's there, okay, all right? And what color is his hair?
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: And brown? Short? Or among and short? Okay? Was he
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: wearing anything else? A hat or anything? He had? Um?
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: He had white socks on and he had a pull
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: up on because we were we were taking a nappy.
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: So what do you mean a pull up? A pull
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: for um for a night time? You know? Okay? What
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: color was that? Um? White? Blue? White? And blue? Is nine? Okay?
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: Really really long? Are you okay? And I want to
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: go first straight out to a very special guest joining us,
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: Christie Missouri Amy Award winning Investigative reporter Christie. Where did
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: this happen? Where did Lucas go missing. He went missing
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: out of the home. That's Emily Glass calling nine one one.
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: That's the Little Boys, So you know, I think it
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: was correct. That's right, So Wichita. And as a matter
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: of fact, here's an idea about the neighborhood. Another clue
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: we get from the nine one one call. Listen, is
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: he the only one missing? Okay? Do you see any
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: suspicious people in the area? Un? I mean, I mean
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: don't even know. There was some thing peop going on
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: the cornerway. I was baking other work, and suspicious people
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: in the corner. I don't know. I don't think that
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: was to do anything with it, but you're never knowing
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: the neighborhood stains. Okay, larn me. Suspicious people in the neighborhood.
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: But I thought he was taking a nap. Take a
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: listen to this. Was he taking a nap with you?
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: We room? Okay, m I put a movie on for
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: him and I didn't shower really quick to pick back
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: on him. So okay, I mean and close the citius
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: a nap and then my room. Okay, so you went
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: to check on him and then you went to go
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: take a nap, and he's out there anymore? Correct? No,
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: h okay, it's okay. Do you have do you know
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: if any line worth anything else? Was there any pets
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: missing or anything? He said, okay and co are in there, good,
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: m okay, So very quickly to you. David Marshburn, private investigator,
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: closely closely connected to this case. Just based on the
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: nine o one call alone, I've got two alternatives. I've
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: got the suspicious people standing on the corner, and I've
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: got the possibility of this five year old little boy
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: who was taking a nap, wondering out into the elements,
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: wearing no shoes and nothing but a pull up. That's
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: what I'm getting from the nine one one call. David
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: marshburne veteran private investigator, former bounty hunter. Because you tell
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: me about the neighborhood, the suspicious people she's referring to
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: on the corner. What is she talking about. Well, the
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: way the way I see it is most of the
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: time when kids are abducted from a home, usually has
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: involved a parent or someone close to the home. And
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: it's like, you know, she didn't stress the point of
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: the strangers or the people that were suspicious. She just
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: kept going back to he's missing, he's missing. And it
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: was like the nine one one dispatcher was the one
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: that put that in her mind. To just come up
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: with it seemed to me, you know what, you're right,
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: You're right. She did not volunteerily come up with that.
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: She came up with that when she was questioned Crime
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: Stories with Nancy Grace Guys. A little boy, five year
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: old Lucas seemingly goes missing, jeer and at wearing nothing
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: but a pull up. Take a listen to Kansas Police
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: officer Charlie Davidson. Still missing. It's five year old Lucas Fernandez.
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: Lucas was last seen wearing black sweats, white socks, and
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: a gray shirt with a bear on it. Our thoughts
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: and prayers remain with Lucas and Lucas's family as we
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: are diligently investigating the situation. On Friday, February seventeenth, that
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: approximately six to fifteen officers were dispatched to a lost
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: juvenile call at a residence and a six hundred block
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: of South Edgemore. When they arrived, they made contact with
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: a twenty six year old female who was the stepmother
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: of Lucas. She reported to officers that she last saw
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: Lucas in his bedroom at approximately three pm. Prior to
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: her showering and falling asleep. Officers and K nine units
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: have deology lately checked the home and the neighborhood with
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: no luck of locating Lucas at this time. Guys, you
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: were hearing them, Police Officer Charlie Davidson speaking. Do I
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: have this wrong, David Marshburn, because I thought she said
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: in the beginning he was wearing a pull up, But
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: now I'm hearing black sweats, white socks, a great shirt
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: with a bear on it. That that's correct. And if
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: you also catch that, you know she first stated that
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: she woke up from a long nap and then it
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: changed to she took a really quick shower. You know,
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: m roy Layton, you have children, right I do. I
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: know what my children have on right now. I even
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: know what color their underwear is because I took it
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: out for them the night before. I know what color
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: their socks are. Everything. I know. It sounds like a
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: small thing, but to have the outfit's so drastically different,
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: and my mind is a big thing. From a pull
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: up to black sweats with a gray sweatshirt, a gray
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: shirt with a bear on in white socks. That's a
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: big difference choice. Lighten. Imagine the chemical reaction going on
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: in somebody's brain when they realize that their child is
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: missing and they are making that call to nine one one,
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: and they are being asked all sorts of questions when
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: all they can think about is, oh, my God, where
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: is my child? I want my child back? And the
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: nine one one operator doing a diligent job, trying to
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: do their job and gather as many facts as they
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: can and get as much information as they can. Initially,
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: there's no textbook for the way that a person is
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: supposed to react. I wasn't waiting for that, Troy. You
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: remind me so much of Defense Attorney Mark Garaghos, because
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: when he was defending Scott Peterson and I was talking
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: about Peterson's affair with his mistress Amber Fry, he said,
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: there's no textbook for grief, you know. I know he
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: made all those zone calls to Amber, there were all lies,
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: but there's no textbook for grief. Now you're saying there's
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: no playbook. You know, Well, my son John David went
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: missing for about five minutes, and I chys r us.
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: The first thing I yelled out it's missing. I immediately said,
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: he's wearing flaid shorts and blue crocs. I didn't forget
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: what he was wearing. So I hear what you're saying, Troy,
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: and I respect you and what you do for a living,
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: trying to make the best out of a really bad situation.
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: But in this case, I want you to hear now
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: what the father of Lucas tells me. Listen. I thought
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: that maybe he had wandered off. You know. I got
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: the phone call when I was working in New Mexico,
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: and I immediately went into shock, especially when I spoke
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: with police officers and they said that they were at
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: my residence and performing at least a neighborhood search in
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: the immediate times after, and that they still hadn't found him.
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: I was really, really, really concerned, because he doesn't you know,
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: he's not the type of boy that wanders off or
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: does anything without asking permission. So I knew something really
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: was wrong, you know, Doctor Sherry Schwartz, forensic psychologist and
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: author of Psychology of Criminal Behavior. Doctor Schwartz, what the
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: father is telling me. He's very significant because if someone
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: told me that John, David or Lucy just left the
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: house I wouldn't believe that, because they've never in thirteen years,
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: even as little children, done that. So it's contrary to
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: everything I know about them. I would not believe that.
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: So when you hear the fathers say in five years,
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: he's never been the type to just leave the house,
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: that means a lot to me. That's a very significant
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: evidence evidence of behavior. I agree with you, Nancy. This
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: is a father who knows his son and this is
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: his instinct reaction rights his intuition is telling him something
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: bad happened here, because my son doesn't just wander off.
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: And these are the cues that we need to pay
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: attention to. To Chrissy MISSOURIK joining me Emmy Award winning
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: investigative reporter, where is Lucas extensive searches involving over one
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: hundred officers, dogs, helicopters, searches conducted in parks, streams, and
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: just search for this five year old little boy, Christy MISSOURIK.
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: Both cops in the community scoured everything when door to
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: door got surveillance video, started tracking cell phones of both
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: Emily Glass, the boy's father, and family members. Not a
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: site nothing. Never saw the boy leave the house. They
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: never saw someone take the boy from the house. It
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: as if he has vanished into thin air. We are
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: talking about the disappearance of a little five year old boy.
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: Where is Luke? Because enterer veteran private investigator David marsh
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: Byrne and you can find him at Search for Me
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: foundation dot org. He's a former bounty hunter. David. How
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: did you get involved in the search for little lucas well?
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: The grandmother called me and she asked me what I
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: what I get involved? And I told her that the
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: only way I could is if you know, the dad
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: will call me. And sure enough he called me right
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: away and asked me what I come up there and help,
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: and I told him I would. And I told him
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: right out in front that there's two people I'm looking
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: at him and Emily and based off of what I
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: know from the beginning of what news Mea was saying.
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: And he said, that's okay, and he agreed to meet
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: with me. You know, that's really interesting that you say that,
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: David marsh Fern. I will never forget being struck the
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: first time I learned that Mark Class, whose daughter Polly
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: was stolen out of her mom's home while she was
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: having a sleepover, He immediately said to cops when they
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: knocked on his door, take my blood, take my fingerprint,
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: take my DNA, search my place, search my car, do
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: whatever you want to so you can start looking for
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: the person that took my daughter, no hesitation whatsoever. And
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: that is exactly what Lucas's dad said. He says, sure,
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: do whatever you need. Clime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys,
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: we are talking about the disappearance of a little five
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: year old boy. And joining me right now is doctor
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: Kendall Crowns, a Deputy Chief Medical exam R Travis County, Texas.
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: That's Austin. And although we typically think the deputy chief
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: Medical examiners dealing with just dead bodies, he's been exposed
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: to a lot of nine one one calls. Jump in,
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: doctor Crowns. So yeah, over the years, I've had to
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: listen to nine one one calls, particularly at court when
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: they play the tapes back of the individuals who may
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: have killed their own child. And you know, you pick
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: up on a couple of things when you listen to them.
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: So listening to this one, it was fascinating their story.
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: Change number one, that's always a red flag. And then
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: the fact that she's the stepmother. Is another red flag too,
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: is I've noticed that, you know, individuals that don't have
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: a vested interest in the child that isn't their blood,
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: sometimes they are often responsible for their disappearance or demise.
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: So when I heard that in the nine one one call,
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: it's yes, she does sound upset, she does sound like
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: she's grieving. But to me, it was a very suspicious,
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: so to say. Also, I grew up in the Witchita area.
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: I know the area where the child disappeared from, and
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: it's you know, a lot of people think Kansas is
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: just some rural farmland with wheat fields, but actually in
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: that area it's quite a bit of houses and for
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: a kid to just wander off and not be seen
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: by other members of the community is extremely interesting. It
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: was very suspicious. You were hearing doctor Kendall Crowns joining
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: so out of Travis County, Texas. David Marshburne called in
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: by the paternal grandmother in this case to help find
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: little Lucas, and somehow he fin angles the step mom,
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: Emily Glass. You just heard on the nine one call
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: into his car, David, I want to play something for
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: you and I want to see if you recall it's
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: our cut twenty five asad as much you think, diner,
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: Why do you say that you ain't no dead on pizza? Hey?
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: Oh no, no, no no, Look we were right here, girl,
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: We ain't going nowhere. Everything is okay, and what ain't okay? We'
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: I it's gonna make okay. We load that it won't
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: be so hard on yourself. You can't do jolly care.
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: I can't do Jael okay to you, David marsh Burn,
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: private investigator number one. Who is the step mother speaking
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: to and how in the world did you get her
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: into the car? Emily's talking to Marsha Ward. That's the
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: girl that works for me, that does um. She's an
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: associate PI. And I'm out of the car and this
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: is when I'm I'm looking under the bridge to find Lucas,
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: and I wound up talking to David. David, let me
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: just take that in for a moment. You're looking for
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: a five year old little boy under a bridge. It's
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: hard for a mother to take in what you just said,
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: looking for your child up under a bridge. How did
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: you get her, Emily Glass into the car to go
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: look for Lucas? I mean, did you know he was
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: dead at that point. I did the day before. After
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: I got done talking to the father for ten minutes,
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: I said, I don't need to talk to you anymore.
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: I need to talk to Emily. So he takes me
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: to Emily and asked her to talk to me for
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: thirty minutes. I'm sitting there talking to her and she's
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: to nine to nine to nine. So I moved forward
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: into saying, you know, basically giving her an out that
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: possibly there was something that happened prior to that caused
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: Luca systemise and maybe she just got scared. In other words,
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: you gave her the choice to say he died as
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: she did have anything to do with it, and then
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: she just hid his body. You gave her that window, yes, ma'am.
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: And did you believe that she did believe as a
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: matter of fact, take a listen to David Marshburn speaking
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: to Emily Glass I cut twenty four. I don't know
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: what what lucas he when he passed away, was on
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: his back? Did he throw up? He choked on his
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: own vomit? Did? Um? Was he just did in his
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: bed the old couch. Uh, he was on the bed
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: there on the couch on his side or on his back,
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: on his back, So did he say he vomited and vomit?
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: He didn't, So he just died. That was a concussion
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: and it's okay, So okay, you freaked out, I'm telling you.
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: So is that how you lured her into showing you
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: where the body was? David, Yes, ma'am. It goes back
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: to the nun one one call, because the details are
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: you know, at first he just like to say he's
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: in his pool up. Well, then he's clothed, and it
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: could possibly been he threw up on himself or threw
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: up on her, and she washed him and then clothed
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: him and then got rid of him. Yeah, and little
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: green men from ours could have been down and taken
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: him up for a probe. But that's not what happened.
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: She murdered five year old Lucas. So as you are
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: cajoling her, did you know in your mind she murdered him, yes, ma'am.
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: So what's going through your mind as you're driving around
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: these back roads with Emily Glass truly the evil step mom,
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: trying to keep her playcated, and so she'll keep talking.
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: What is going through your mind? David? Justice for this
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: little boy because I lived that kind of lifestyle when
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: I was young. I was in a abused home and
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: had you know, our mother's boyfriends beat on us and stuff,
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: and all I can think about is every hit that
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: we were hit with that he did the same to him.
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: What was her demeanor in the car with you, pretty
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: much self absorbed. It's what's going to happen to me.
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: She's more upset about the outcome, not so much as him,
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: because in her mind where she placed him was beautiful
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: and a nice setting, sort of like a great burial. David,
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: you're the only one that has really spent time with
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: this murder mom. Why did she do it? Well? Another
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: thing is she had another child, and I believe her
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: jealousy of why she couldn't have her boys that he
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: could have his, and now I'm taking care of him. Well,
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: I don't want that life anymore. I want it just
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: with me and my husband and our child together. Take
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: a listen to our cut twenty six. I'm just sorry.
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: I'm so sorry. I kill It's okay. I think you
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: didn't know her hair is? Where's the door? I did
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: a little. It's so wrong. I didn't wrong. You are
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: hearing the truly evil stepmother I murder mom stating I
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: did Lucas so wrong, I did him wrong. Crime Stories
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace, What happened to Lucas Hernandez and the
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: hand ends of evil stepmother murder Mom Emily Glass to
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: David Marshburne, did she ever divulge how she really murdered
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: this five year old little boy? No, ma'am. I kept
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: with the same program of the pount that I gave
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: her through. I know it's just marsha and against her,
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: but you want to keep her on that same level
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: until law enforcement get there. And you know, as far
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: as her mentality at that time, you know, the the
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: forensic psychologist is going to be a better option on
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: what's going through her mind. And I can just see
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: what physically, but as far as readinger, that would be
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: more for the psychologist. You know, let's go to you,
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: doctor Sherry Schwartz, forensic psychologists specializing in criminal pathology. Doctor Sherry.
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: A lot has made of the fact that the father
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: traveled a lot for work and she Emily Glass stayed
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: home and took care of his son from another woman.
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: Lucas Hernandez along with her own child, a little girl,
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: but her little girl was fed and taking care of
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: and petted and doted upon, but not Lucas. Why that's
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: actually more common than we care to discuss, Nancy that
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: step children. I'm not sure of the exact statistic, but
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: there are statistics out there that show that step children
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: are significantly more likely to come to some harm in
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: a home where their primary caretaker is a stepparent or
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: where there's a stepparent in the home. So that's not
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: entirely uncommon. It's incredibly horrible and unfortunate, but not at
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: all uncommon, sadly, And you know, to David's point about
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: what was going through her mind, the only thing that
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: was going through her mind from what I'm hearing, is
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: what about me herself. She's not saying we need to
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: find Lucas. She's not saying, poor Lucas. How you know
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: he's out here somewhere. I can't sleep at night because
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: I'm so worried about Lucas. What she's saying is I
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: can't do jail and I'm this horrible person, which she
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: that's not guilt. We shouldn't mistake that for gilt in
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: this context. What that is or guilty conscience. I should say,
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: what that is is that she's using self pity, this
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: feigned self pity to manipulate the emotions of David and
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: whoever else is listening. Pour me, poor me, poor me.
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: It's all about me, guys, What was going through her mind?
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: To take a listen to our cut thirty. This is
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: Lucas's father, Jonathan speaking to me. No, I did not.
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: In the three years that I've known her and seen
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: them interact, and you know she's she was always good
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: with him. Did you guys have a stormy relationship? Did
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: you argue about you being out of town? It would
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: come up? I mean it was it was hard. You know,
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: it's hard like that, especially you know, for the kids,
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: but also for her. And I mean it was hard
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: for me being gone. I didn't I didn't want to
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: be away from my family for three weeks at a time.
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: You know, I don't know if the name Julie Shinneker
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: rings a Belle Troy Layton defends attorney out of la
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: Julie Shinneker, or the highly educated military mom out of
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: Florida whose husband was high up in the military too,
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: who would be gone, Gone gone? While She raised two twins,
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: two children now teens at home, and she shot both
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: of them dead. One the son was coming back from
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: I think it was lacrosse. The daughter was at a
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: computer working our homework and shot in the mouth. This
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: is a common recurring thing, children being murdered by mom's
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: because dad's away from home. Well, of course that's no defense,
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: Troye Layton. Certainly it is not a defense. And in
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: this case it is a stepmother and not a blood relationship.
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: Does that matter in your mind somehow? Absolutely not. But
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: you know, anyone that would take any kind of action
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: to harm any child, their own stepchild is clearly laboring
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: under psychological illness. Oh okay, let me understand something, Royce Layton.
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: Isn't show you have your JD, not your MD with
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: a specialty in psychiatry. Is that right now? I'm just
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: a doctor of lawn right as we all are. Once
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: you're going to call your doctor Slayton. But that one's
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: not insanity under the law against the five year old
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: child does not have all the people. Yeah, I agree
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: with that, but the reality is not having all your marbles.
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: It's not insanity under the law, which means you didn't
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: know right from wrong at the time of the incident,
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: and back to you, David Marshburne, who helped locate this
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: little child's body. She clearly knew right from wrong because
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: when you were talking to her, she can't be saying
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: I can't do jail, I can't do jail. She knew
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: what she did was wrong. David, tell me about the
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: discovery of this child's body. Well, when we were riding around,
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: I finally got it out of her that she put
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: him under a bridge, because we were riding around forever
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: and I would ask her about landmarks and you know
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: which bridge, And finally I got irritated and I said,
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: all right, we're just gonna stop at every bridge did
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: we come to, and we're gonna look under. And sure enough,
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: the very first bridge I come to, he's under there,
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: um and you know you could That's when she's having
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: a conversation with Marcia. She knew I found him, because
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: I didn't know that conversation was going on. But while
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: I was looking under the bridge, she knew it. Because
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: then she's like, I can't do jail. Oh my god,
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: you know what have I done? And Marcia's just reassuring
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: her that everything's gonna be okay, or we're gonna make
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: it okay. Did you yourself find the body, Yes, ma'am,
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: I did well. At first, I couldn't make out what
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: it is, but when I got up to it, I
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: realized that there was a bunch of branches he was hidden.
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: So you know, that's to me, that's showing guilt already
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: because you're trying to hide it. You know, it's one
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: thing to go put it somewhere someone can find him
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: and then he can get a proper burial, but this
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: you actually went to the extent of gathering stuff to
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: put on top of him to make sure no one
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: Discoversy to doctor Kendall Crown's Deputy Chief Medical Examiner, Travis County, Texas,
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: no cause of death was ever determined. Why Well, so,
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: the issue is the child is decomposed, and to the
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: extent of decomposition, it's difficult to see if there's like
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: internal damage, like the organs have either decomposed to the
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: point you can't really evaluate them, or they've been scavenged
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: by maggots or other predators that might be in the area,
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: or other scavengers that might be in the area that
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: leaves you with the problem is you can't quite make
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: out what may or may not have happened. The other
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: thing is is often in these child abuse cases like this,
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: is they're smothered little pillow with hand or something along
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: those lines. And because of how the act of smothering
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: leaves very little findings on a child, you might, if
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: you're lucky, find a like breezing on the inner surface
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: of the lip because of the hard pressure against the teeth,
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: but you rarely find that. So what happens is in
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: the smothering cases is there's actually no findings. So because
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: of that, the decomposition, the fact that the kid could
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: have been smothered, it's hard to say what exactly happened.
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: So that leaves the medical examiner with the only option
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: of calling it undetermined, even though more than likely the
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: child was murdered in some way. Be of David Marshburne. David,
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: what went through your mind when you saw that child's
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: remains covered up under a bridge? Well, you know, I
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: trying to put my personal feelings into it anymore, because
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: you know, the very first case of solid I really
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: wanted my emotions got to me and I could have
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: done something really bad. So I try to leave my
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: emotions out of it. But you know, it's horrid with
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: a child, especially when you're sitting there and you can
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: see his face. He matter of fact, going back to
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: that first question, you asked me, what did I saw?
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: What did I see? Well, he was mummified and he
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: still had his face, and there was live activity, you
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: know with maggots, and you know, just seeing him, that
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: little precious baby laying there just discarded like trash, was
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: just horrible, horrific. It still affected me, but this not
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: as as it did other cases when I know the
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: family more to murder a five year old child because
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: you're angry that daddy works away from home three weeks
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: at a time, throw his body under a bridge to
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: be eaten by bugs, she truly qualifies as a murder mom.
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: Nancy Gray's Crimes Story, signing off Goodbye friend,