Latest / Integrate This! Ed Tech Podcast / Dr. Sheldon Eakins on Purposeful Leadership and Culturally Responsive Teaching

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Dr. Sheldon Eakins on Purposeful Leadership and Culturally Responsive Teaching · Integrate This! Ed Tech Podcast

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Welcome to Integrate This, your go -to EdTech
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podcast where curiosity meets classroom innovation.
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Join your hosts David Berner and Jeremy Mikla
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as we explore the rapidly evolving world of educational
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technology. From game -changing tools to insightful
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conversations with today's top EdTech voices,
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we're here to help educators stay informed, inspired,
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and ready to innovate. So tune in, level up.
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And let's integrate this. Hey, welcome to the
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Integrate This Ed Tech podcast. I'm David Berner,
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joined by co -host Jeremy Nicola. And today we
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have with us Dr. Sheldon Akins. You can also
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see Sheldon is avid sneaker collector there,
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too. Pretty awesome background. And Sheldon actually
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and I we kind of briefly met at ISTE because
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we were both in attendance for one of Dr. Valenzuela's
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presentations. But Sheldon has a ton of work
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that he's done as a school administrator and
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educational consultant and leadership coach.
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And he's also got several books. So we want to
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talk about some of those things with you today.
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But Sheldon, do you mind kicking things off for
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us and just kind of giving us your story from,
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you know, where where you started to how you
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got to where you got to today? Absolutely. And
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thanks for having me on the show, David and Jeremy.
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It is an honor and a pleasure. A little bit about
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myself. As David said, behind me, if you're watching
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this, there's a bunch of Jordans behind me. I'll
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start there since it's what was brought up. I
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am an avid collector of Jordans, particularly
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Jordan 1s. So I have probably about 40 of those.
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I didn't have enough lockers, so I need to get
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some more. So there's some of them in my closet.
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But then I also have some other Jordan Retros,
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twos and threes and fours and those kind of things.
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So I am a collector. But outside of that, when
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I was in the 12th grade, I decided I wanted to
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be a teacher. I had a really cool history teacher.
2:00
His name was Mr. Fielder. He was just like the
2:04
coolest guy ever. And I was like, man, I want
2:06
to be just like him. I love the way he taught
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history. I love the way he told stories. And
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he was also my basketball coach. I was like,
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I want to do that. And so I went to college and
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I majored in social science education so I could
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become a history teacher. I had the opportunity
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to become a history teacher and also had the
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opportunity to coach as well. Unfortunately,
2:27
I've had a chance to win a championship. I've
2:30
made it to playoffs, but one year I did make
2:33
it to the championship and won. championship.
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So that was fun. And it's just been my journey
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like fresh out of college. I made it to the Virgin
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Islands where I first started teaching there.
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And that was kind of like my first introduction
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to coastal responsive teaching because, yeah,
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I got a lot of theory and I even went to historically
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black college. But there was still a lot of things
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that just culture wise that I had to pick up
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and I had to learn. It just wasn't something
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that I just could learn in a book. And so a lot
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of those experiences really kind of honed the
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way I approach education. So from being a history
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teacher, I decided to go ahead and get my master's
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in leadership and had the opportunity to run
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a couple schools as a school principal. And I
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said, you know what, master's is cool, but I
3:17
want to keep going. And my goal initially was
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to move into higher education. And I said, OK,
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I'm going to be a professor. That was the goal.
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I knew I didn't want to be in the classroom.
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Got my PhD in K through 12 studies and moved
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into higher education, which took me to Idaho.
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Never would have thought I would end up in Idaho,
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but it happened. You know, it's one of those
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things during that time when I'll just put in
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applications everywhere just cause I was trying
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to get a job, trying to move into higher ed and
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Idaho state called me and they interviewed me.
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I actually had forgotten that I had to interview
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or that I had to put an application into they
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reached out a few months later. And, uh, yeah,
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I got the job, moved to Idaho. but then I realized
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I miss the kids. Like it was cool, but working
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with adults, don't get me wrong, I enjoy working
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with adults and I like that, but I still like
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to be around children. And so I got tapped into
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the local reservation out there, the Shoshone
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and Bannock tribes, and they asked me to work
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as their special education director. So I spent
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about three years working as a SPED director.
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And being a black man in Idaho, I was struggling
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with a lot of things when it came to how I was
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being treated and how I respond to treatment.
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And it's not like it was just racist. It was
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just... Um, a lot of subtle stuff, a lot of people
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just ignorance. They just hadn't had a lot of
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experience with inner inner acting with folks
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like me. And so I was just trying to navigate
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a lot of things and I started a podcast. So I
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started a podcast back in 2018. It's called leading
4:55
equity. We have, let's see, I just published
4:58
episode 430. two, 33, somewhere around there
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at this point. And it's just been a journey to
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where I've had the opportunity to meet some great
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and amazing people and learn from so many folks
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and do all this research and just kind of keep
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me up to date. It's provided me opportunities
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to become a consultant. So I do run a consultant
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firm called Purposeful Teaching Academy. Had
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the opportunity to read, to write books in addition
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to that. Currently, I do. consult, but I also
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I live here in Phoenix now. So I did do my time
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in Idaho. I love Idaho. It just wasn't for me.
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And I decided that let's let's move back to a
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larger area. So I'm in Phoenix. I've been here
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for about two years. And currently, I supervise
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a behavior support program here in South Phoenix.
5:46
Cool. And just out of curiosity, you mentioned
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the podcast as you've kind of moved into the
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consulting and you've done the podcast, those
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are those are somewhat simultaneous, right? So
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you had started the podcast, you said 2018. Mm
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hmm. Yeah, I'm sorry. Go ahead. Yeah, no, just
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curious, like how that kind of informed some
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of the things that you're doing along that same
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trajectory of years. Yeah, absolutely. So and
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I never started the podcast with any kind of
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business or goals like that in mind. I was just
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trying to navigate. the world. So like I would
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have students come up to me and say, oh, I feel
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like I've been mistreated. Oh, somebody said
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something to me. I didn't know how to respond.
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And I didn't know what to tell them because I
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grew up in the South and growing up in the South,
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things are a lot different. The way that you're
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treated by folks that do not look like me is
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very blatant, is very open and like, you know.
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But when I was out there, it was like a lot of
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stuff that was very subtle. It was like passive
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aggressive type of comments and things like that,
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or just a lot of assumptions that were made based
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off of stereotypes. So I wanted to learn how
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to not only figure out life for myself, for my
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students, for my own children, but I want to
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share it to the world. And it wasn't long before
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people started to reach out and listen to it.
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And I was like, oh. I remember the very first
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keynote. Again, I was not planning. I'm not a
7:14
speaker. At this time, this is not something
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I was doing. I was just legit just trying to
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share content. And I had someone reach out and
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say, hey, I heard that you work with Native American
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population. We are at a district where there's
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a huge population demographic -wise of students
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that are part of this tribe. Would you come and
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speak to our group? Because the students do not
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look like the staff. And so yeah, that was my
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first gig. I didn't even know how to chart. I
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didn't know how to set up. Uh, I didn't know
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anything as far as like the business side of
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stuff, but I came on out there and I didn't plan.
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I'm not gonna lie. I didn't plan my travels.
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This was in like a rural town in Oklahoma. And
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I just assumed that I could just call a taxi
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in the morning or Uber and get my way from the
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hotel to the venue. And then when I started checking
8:04
the Uber app, I realized, wait, there's no Uber
8:07
out here. It was like, you just assume it was
8:10
nationwide. I thought it was a thing. And there
8:12
was no Uber. So then I'm going to the hotel guests.
8:15
I'm like, can you, or at least the hotel information,
8:19
I'm asking them, I need to get to this place.
8:22
How do I get there? She's like, well, there's
8:23
one taxi. You can call it. Here's the number.
8:25
And they gave me the number, but it just happened
8:27
to be the day that that person was off. So again,
8:30
there's one taxi and he took, he was off that
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day. So I'm like, okay, I'm frantic. I have to
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get about an hour's way. So I'm like, okay, is
8:38
there enterprise? Is there a rental place? And
8:41
so I found a rental car place, but again, I needed
8:44
a way over there to the rental car place was
8:46
about two miles down the road. So I literally
8:48
asked hotel guests. as they were eating a breakfast,
8:51
complimentary breakfast. I'm asking people, tapping
8:54
on them on the shoulder. And I finally, I bought
8:56
the third person. I asked him, he's like, oh,
8:58
I'm an educator too. I sell resources, ed tech,
9:01
blah, blah, blah. I'll run you over to Enterprise.
9:04
So he took me to Enterprise. I got me a rental
9:06
car, drove over to this venue. I was late, but
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I drove to the venue and that was my first experience.
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I learned a lot. I learned about billing. I learned
9:15
about making sure that you plan your itineraries
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correctly. You can't just assume stuff will be
9:21
there and available for you. I mean, it was just
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a big lesson, but it just kind of things took
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off from there. And I just started doing more
9:28
and more work. And again, people will listen
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to the show. So a lot of the business and the
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consulting partnerships that I've created have
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been as a result of either a book, but before
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that it was a lot of it came from the podcast.
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Sheldon, I mentioned a little bit before we came
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on, David and I are both based out of Minnesota.
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And there is really, and as an attendee of a
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Lutheran church in Minnesota, there's really
9:54
nothing more Lutheran than potluck. Our whole
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lives in Minnesota at times seem to revolve around
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that. And it brings us to the, I guess it brings
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me to my question here about your book, What
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are you bringing to the potluck? I think it just
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seems like a fantastic metaphor of everyone has
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their own backgrounds and experiences and skill
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sets and talents and experiences that they bring
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to the table. What kind of struck you with that
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metaphor to lead you to write a book about that?
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I'm glad you brought this up because I'm really
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excited to talk about it. I want you to follow
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me. Think about it as a metaphor. The original
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title for this book before I started working
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with Solution Tree was Don't Bring Boxed Macaroni
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to the Potluck. That was the original title.
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Okay. And it followed me. I see you smiling.
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And so the challenge was and the idea behind
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it was again, kind of like you said, I grew up
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church. Every week we had potluck. That was the
11:04
expectation and you knew the go -to places or
11:07
you knew what dishes to get from because you
11:09
know the regular folks Okay, sister Johnson.
11:11
She's gonna have her famous sweet potato this
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and brother Jones He's gonna bring in his mac
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and cheese like we knew What to expect when we
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showed up to these potluck everybody brought
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their their go -to dish They put their own flair.
11:26
They put their swag into it. They put their elbow
11:28
into it if that makes sense, right and so If
11:32
you happen to stumble across a boxed macaroni
11:36
casserole, something very basic that you know,
11:40
it didn't take a lot of effort until you boil
11:43
some water, you mix a little powder and the noodles
11:46
and voila, you got your dish. And it usually
11:51
would be the dish that was left over, right?
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So everything else is gone and you might see
11:56
a scoop that was taken out of this boxed macaroni.
12:00
So my mindset behind this, when I was thinking
12:03
about creating a sense of belonging, if I'm a
12:06
school leader, what happens when I bring in this
12:11
special event and I bring in something that's
12:14
very simple and doesn't seem like I put a lot
12:17
of effort into it? So when we're trying to create
12:21
a sense of belonging where every student feels
12:23
accepted, supported, and included, we have to
12:26
bring our best. We should not be trying to rush
12:29
through. We should not be trying to, in a pinch,
12:32
put something together and say, we did it. No,
12:35
we're going to bring in our famous whatever that
12:37
might be. So that could be your famous wings.
12:40
It could be your famous lasagna or whatever casserole
12:43
it is, but we're bringing our best to it. Here's
12:47
the challenge. People kept thinking, like all
12:51
the peer reviews, They're sitting there reading,
12:53
oh, boxed macaroni, but I love boxed macaroni.
12:55
I love, like sometimes that's all I can do. And
12:58
then I was like, well, you know, when it comes
13:00
to equity, if you, you know, if that's all you
13:03
can afford is boxed macaroni, that should be
13:05
okay. And I kept trying to explain and help folks
13:08
understand this is metaphor. I'm not saying literally
13:12
boxed macaroni. I'm trying to explain to you,
13:16
let's keep it real. Boxed macaroni is a quick
13:20
thing. That's not you don't have to buy a lot
13:22
of ingredients. You literally buy a box and you
13:24
boil some water. So if that's our approach to
13:28
education, that's a problem. That's not creating
13:31
an intentional approach to a sense of belonging.
13:34
So we went back and forth with the title. We
13:38
settled on what are you bringing to the potluck,
13:41
which again goes to are we bringing our best
13:44
effort into the potluck? As you said, Jeremy.
13:47
You know that you're used to going to potlucks
13:50
every week or other folks that are listening,
13:52
they're used to going to potlucks every week.
13:54
And if you're one of those contributors that
13:56
brings that potluck dish, maybe you have your
13:59
go -to versus are you bringing in just plates,
14:03
napkins and silverware, or maybe bring in a juice,
14:05
all right? So what are you bringing to the potluck
14:08
when it comes to your effort in creating a sense
14:10
of belonging? Yeah, and I could see how that
14:13
would be really important even you know to continue
14:16
with the metaphor a little bit You know, I like
14:19
my chili nice and spicy and so, you know do it
14:23
and if I'm gonna bring chili to You know that
14:26
potluck, you know I want people to taste it as
14:29
I think it should be tasted and if it challenges
14:32
them outside of their comfort zone You know,
14:35
I think that's okay Yeah, absolutely. And and
14:39
that's the point like If it's challenging, that's
14:42
great. Um, but again, it's, it's what you like,
14:45
right? You like your chili. Spicing and I, and
14:48
I like spicy chili too. So the, but again, it's
14:51
you putting in your flare, you're putting a little
14:53
bit of love, sprinkling some love in that chili
14:55
and that's what you're presenting. And so that's
14:58
what, and that's, again, that's, that was the
14:59
whole point of the title. Uh, it does use references
15:04
to ingredients and kind of the whole potluck
15:07
theme is throughout the book. But again, some
15:10
people were kind of taking it too literal and
15:12
not understanding the metaphor, which I just,
15:15
you know, going through and having to try to
15:16
explain it. I could understand the publisher
15:19
standpoint. But yeah, that was the original title.
15:22
But I think it even works to challenge people's
15:27
perceptions and assumptions in a school climate
15:30
and a school culture that it's OK to bring in
15:32
a little bit of spice to that as well. Yes, yes.
15:36
And that's the thing, sometimes we get hung up
15:40
on semantics because we were in a society where
15:45
certain words can't be said, certain things can't
15:47
be done, or you're going against quote unquote
15:49
traditional practices. And here's the thing,
15:53
when COVID happened, I honestly thought this
15:55
was an opportunity for us to revisit what our
15:58
educational system looks like. Because this was
16:01
a time where a lot of folks realized, oh, wait,
16:03
there's a lot of people that don't have technology
16:05
or they don't have the devices or they don't
16:07
have access to drive to the school to pick up
16:10
their packets and then come back. Like there
16:12
was a lot of stuff that people discovered. I
16:14
said, okay, now here's the opportunity that we
16:17
have to revisit and look at our education. And
16:20
there were some changes and there are a lot of
16:22
changes that did take place, but slowly over
16:24
time, our educational system has kind of crept
16:27
back into the original. framework of what you
16:31
grew up with and what I grew up with, it's still
16:33
prevalent. So when you are trying to do things
16:36
that goes against the grain, that puts a little
16:39
bit of spice or flair into the system, those
16:42
things get challenged. Those type of things are
16:45
questioned and you look like an oddball. But
16:48
at the end of the day, Jeremy, I know that you're
16:50
doing the best that you can or you're thinking
16:53
about the students first. But just because Your
16:56
approach isn't what everyone else is used to.
16:58
It looks like you're going against the grain
17:00
and people want to challenge you and there's
17:02
all this pushback, but I'm with you, man. If
17:05
our test scores are the way they are and we complain
17:08
about the opportunity and achievement gaps and
17:11
like these are conversations that we have on
17:13
a daily basis, why not try something different?
17:17
Yeah, and one of the things too, Sheldon, is
17:20
you spent time both as a teacher and as administrator
17:24
and So you've obviously seen like a lot of classrooms,
17:29
right? So in classroom management, you have your
17:31
book, Meaningful Classroom Management. And how
17:35
do you shift thinking from like building a culture
17:41
versus just like more control or rules, like
17:47
a bunch of rules. The rules are there. Everybody
17:49
just follows the rules. What's the difference
17:51
between how either culture or control impacts
17:57
classroom management. Good question. Like right
18:01
now our schools and this interesting because
18:05
you know we're a lot of us are getting back to
18:07
I don't know how y 'all are as far as Minnesota
18:10
when y 'all start school but here in Phoenix
18:12
we're starting like this week like a lot of schools
18:14
are starting this week and next. I see your face
18:16
I'm assuming y 'all have a little bit of time.
18:21
But we're starting like tomorrow, like a lot
18:23
of schools, like I know people who have started
18:25
this week or they're starting this week. My son,
18:28
he actually starts on Friday. And then my daughter,
18:31
she starts next Monday. So like the back to school
18:34
conversations, even though we get upset when
18:36
we're in Walmart and we start seeing back to
18:39
school supplies happening like in May and stuff.
18:42
But the point is we start talking about Luna's
18:46
first day of school. You own those kids, you
18:48
know, you don't let up. and otherwise you're
18:51
gonna lose them. Like that's the conversation
18:53
I was taught. That's the conversation a lot.
18:55
I hear these conversations all the time. The
18:58
idea of, you know, make sure that they know exactly
19:02
who you are and otherwise you will not have the
19:05
control of the classroom. So what happens is
19:09
our students, they learn compliance. So they'll
19:11
do stuff. for you because if I don't do it, there's
19:15
going to be a consequence behind it. So some
19:17
of them might be operating in a level of fear.
19:20
Some of them might just be operating in a level
19:23
of compliance. There is no real buy in into the
19:27
to this classroom. And so what I talk about in
19:29
my book is revisiting or relooking at how we
19:34
do our classroom. management. I don't like to
19:37
utilize the term clash of management. I prefer
19:39
something more of a community engagement or community
19:41
agreement rather is how I like to approach it
19:45
because that's to me is more student centered.
19:48
So like if we are already on the first day of
19:50
school, have established all the norms and expectations,
19:54
raise your finger to go to the bathroom and cross
19:57
your fingers if you need to do this, like all
19:59
these different signs or protocols. And again,
20:03
if a student doesn't do what you're asking them
20:06
to do, then they're being defied maybe, or maybe
20:10
they're being disruptive. Let's look at things
20:13
a little different. And if I have some time,
20:15
I want to give a little bit more context behind
20:18
the basis of the book. I did some research on
20:22
this gentleman. His name was Gert Hofstad. He
20:26
was someone that did a lot of research back in
20:30
the 70s on the company IBM. So this is a while
20:34
ago because it's IBM, right? And so what he did
20:37
was he noticed the different behaviors of the
20:40
employees. And he came up with these cultural
20:43
dimensions. And out of the cultural dimensions,
20:46
one of them was the individualism versus collectivism.
20:49
And what he found was in the United States and
20:51
England, some other countries, we rely heavily
20:54
on the individual approach, right? So personal
20:58
achievement. So when we think about our educational
21:00
system, we are big on GPAs. We are big on the
21:05
valedictorian, the salutatorium, the top of the
21:08
class. So it's often individually based. It's
21:13
all about the direct communication and independency.
21:16
So it's not uncommon for a teacher to tell students,
21:20
okay, go back to your seat and work on this quietly
21:22
or work on this individually. But what happens
21:24
when a student That gets up out of their seat
21:28
goes to one of his best friends and says hey
21:31
Johnny Let me help you out or what did you get
21:34
on number three or? They're just trying to like
21:37
they're whispering to that person and the teacher
21:38
sees oh I told y 'all to sit at your desk quietly
21:42
and now you're out of your seat talking to your
21:45
best friend and Now you're in so there could
21:47
be a back -and -forth exchange and it just it
21:50
could escalate what Gert Hofstad understood was
21:54
there are folks that come from a collective background,
21:58
right? So even though the United States relies
22:00
heavily on individualism, there's a group of
22:03
folks or community or culturally. There's folks
22:05
that prefer group work. They prefer harmony and
22:10
group. They collaborate and learn like everything.
22:12
Your stuff is my stuff. And that's their personality.
22:16
That's their cultural background. And so there's
22:19
a clash. So sometimes there's a mismatch between
22:22
what a teacher is identifying as misbehavior
22:26
versus a student's preference or what they're
22:29
more familiar with. I give the example, sometimes
22:34
we talk about how students, we have the expectation
22:37
for students to look you in the eye and shake
22:41
your hand. Like that's Western norms. Like when
22:43
you greet somebody, you look them in the eye,
22:45
firm handshake. But then there's other cultures
22:47
that no, that's not how we show a level of respect.
22:51
We actually bow our heads to our elders or we
22:54
actually don't look them in the eye. And so sometimes
22:57
we misinterpret behavior. And as we misinterpret
23:00
that behavior, then students can end up getting
23:03
in trouble, which they may not have had to be
23:06
getting into trouble, but it's just more of a
23:10
misinterpretation of what the behavior is. So
23:12
that's what the book is all about is reframing
23:16
a way that we can balance the collective students
23:19
and your individual students. I'm not saying,
23:21
oh, just shift everything over to the collective
23:23
work. No, we need to have, make sure that we're
23:26
having a balance and not 80 or 90 % of the stuff
23:28
is single work. And all the students are walking
23:31
to the classroom and they're all sitting in rows.
23:34
No, is there any type of opportunities for them
23:36
to work together in groups? Because there's a
23:37
group of students that prefer that style or approach
23:41
to learning. In the I like how you laid out the
23:45
the tension there between the two different approaches
23:50
or cultural backgrounds and how when students
23:55
come into a classroom and actually this I thought
23:57
of this too is because you know, especially when
24:00
you get more into the upper level right like
24:02
high school things like that. Yeah, students
24:05
are moving from one class to the next right throughout
24:07
the day and so there's there's all those. Those
24:11
shifts that are constantly happening throughout
24:13
the day even just moving from one teacher to
24:16
the next so as you look at those Those things
24:20
that are intention or like if you have let's
24:23
say as students move from a teacher that's more
24:27
like Focused on the individualism side and then
24:31
next period they move to one where it's like
24:33
more on the collectivist side Just from the teacher
24:36
perspective, right? As they as they do that,
24:40
is there a way to help those things kind of like
24:44
work together or how would you approach? Like
24:47
let's say you're going to take all those teachers
24:49
that had those different approaches. What would
24:52
you have them work on or who to help them understand
24:56
the opposite side? I guess is what I'm saying.
24:59
Self awareness starts first, right? So in my
25:02
book I talk about like what are you more? What
25:05
do you lean more towards? Right? Because we tend
25:07
to teach the way we. we're taught right and so
25:10
when we become educators we probably pull some
25:13
of the stuff that we used to do or some of the
25:16
tactics that we used to utilize in school like
25:18
i remember when i first started teaching one
25:20
of the things i used to do was i i would tell
25:23
the kids all right handful of y 'all are Misbehaving
25:28
y 'all was talking out of place y 'all talking
25:30
out of turn, uh, no recess for everybody, right?
25:33
So like the whole class gets punished because
25:35
there's three or four kids That and that was
25:37
one of those three when I was a kid I was one
25:39
of those three or four kids that would ruin recess
25:42
for everybody, right? Or I would put people kids
25:46
names on the board and then I put a check next
25:48
to them and you know They did more and I put
25:50
another check like these are things that I grew
25:52
up on and I was utilizing these same strategies
25:55
When I first started teaching Right, because
25:58
that was what I was familiar with. Yeah, again,
26:00
I went to teacher school, but I pulled from my
26:03
bag of stuff that I knew I was very familiar
26:06
with. So I talk about, let's identify. What are
26:10
some of the tactics that you prefer? Or what
26:13
are some of the strategies that you prefer in
26:15
your classroom? And so it asks you a series of
26:17
questions. OK, do you do a lot of worksheets?
26:20
Do you do a lot of this? Do you do a lot of that?
26:23
And then that teacher can determine, OK, you
26:26
know what? I'm actually more collectivist leaning.
26:28
Or you know what? I'm actually a little bit more
26:30
individualistic leaning. I would start there.
26:34
Get some self -awareness and find out where you
26:36
are, where some of the areas for growth. And
26:38
then once I decide, OK, I'm more individual leaning.
26:42
OK, I need to bring in some more collectivism
26:44
work or vice versa. But that does take some time
26:47
to be intentional again with your approach. So
26:49
we're assuming, David, that these individuals
26:52
like you're talking about are wanting to see
26:55
where they're at and wanting to be a little bit
26:58
more intentional with their approaches so that
27:00
they are mixing in a good flavor. And then also.
27:04
you can ask your students these same questions,
27:06
because every classroom is going to look different,
27:08
like you said. So you may have a roster where
27:11
you have 80 % of your students are more on the
27:14
collectivist side. You might have 20%, you know
27:17
what I'm saying? So you can also ask these same
27:19
type of questions to your students in the beginning
27:21
of the school year so that you can grasp a better
27:24
concept of, okay, so my third hour English class
27:28
looks this way. Well, my fourth hour English
27:31
class looks the other way. And so now I'm being
27:34
able to provide strategies and stuff, activities,
27:37
things in my classroom that are going to really
27:39
tap into the majority. And then also I'm bringing
27:44
in a nice little balance, but that balance is
27:46
from an equitable standpoint where I'm looking
27:49
at, okay, I have this certain percentage. And
27:51
now this is the type of work I'm going to give.
27:53
I bet you, if you are more intentional in that
27:55
approach, you will see a difference with the
27:58
engagement that you're getting with the amount
28:00
of collaboration or whatever that looks like
28:04
for you. If we are intentional with our approach.
28:08
Yeah, I can really get what you're saying here.
28:10
And I think a lot of it is, and I'm going to
28:13
go back to where you were first talking about,
28:15
you're going to start teaching the way that the
28:18
teachers that you looked up to taught you. and
28:21
I definitely remember that and I greatly admired
28:25
the teachers that I had throughout high school
28:27
and I did model myself when I started teaching
28:29
history as well. You know that it was very much
28:33
the same mode and I remembered the stories and
28:35
I loved the stories and I shared the stories
28:37
but then Boy, it was a lot of doing notes up
28:42
at the in front of the class and the kids had
28:44
to write down everything I wrote down. And, you
28:47
know, if a kid misbehaved, it send them out into
28:50
the hallway or it's, you know, and then find
28:52
time to talk to them later kind of thing. But
28:54
I think it probably took me maybe four or five
28:56
years into my teaching career when I started
28:59
to have a little bit bigger perspective than
29:02
just what I was doing and put that focus more
29:05
on what was the experience of the kids in my
29:07
class. And I think when I did that, it was more
29:12
about creating those relationships with the students
29:15
to begin with, making sure that they felt like
29:18
they belonged in the class and starting to make
29:21
changes. Like you even said, hour by hour, sometimes
29:24
just knowing the makeup of the class that you
29:26
have, which I think that that sense of belonging
29:29
that that kids start to feel in that class is
29:32
really what's going to connect them to that learning.
29:34
And I think where I'm going with this here is
29:36
you've got a consulting thing, the Purposeful
29:39
Teaching Academy going on. You know, like it
29:42
is Is that kind of who you're the type of teacher
29:45
you're looking to target the type of school culture
29:47
that you want to get invited into? Or is it a
29:50
bigger audience than that for your platform?
29:54
At the end of the day, belonging. Let's start
29:56
there. So I do a lot of belonging work and again,
30:01
making sure that each student feels accepted,
30:04
supported and included. That's the goal. We want
30:06
them to have all three of those things. Uh, not
30:08
just feeling accepted, not just feeling supported,
30:11
not just feeling included because there's that
30:13
famous, there's a James Baldwin talks about if
30:17
you're going to include someone, you know, how
30:20
are you including someone? Are you including
30:21
them into a burning house? Right? So if I'm including
30:26
students into this culture community, that's
30:29
not good. What does that mean? So it's important
30:33
that we are making sure that they fill all three
30:36
of those things. So I approach it from a sense
30:39
of belonging, which does include how we approach
30:42
our classrooms and also how we approach our leadership.
30:45
So you mentioned two different books. One book
30:48
is more for the teacher side of things and the
30:50
other book is for, so the potluck book is more
30:53
for the leadership in a meaningful classroom.
30:55
Management is going to be more for the teacher
30:58
side of things. But if we combine those all of
31:01
that and from my consulting side of things, that's
31:04
the ultimate approach is creating a sense of
31:06
belonging in your school. Yeah, and there's a
31:09
lot of professional learning that's out there,
31:11
and I know David and I do provide some of that
31:14
to teachers in schools in our different regions
31:18
of Minnesota, but you know, what's a principle
31:22
if they choose to bring you in or an administrator,
31:25
if they bring you into their building, what are
31:26
they going to get from you that they can't find
31:28
somewhere else? Yeah, that's that's a good question.
31:31
I would say I tried it so first of all, I'm not
31:34
one of those one of those consultants as abrasive
31:37
that's gonna tell you oh you're everything you're
31:39
doing is wrong and y 'all are a bunch of You
31:42
know why y 'all here? Why y 'all should never
31:43
be in front of kids? I've seen I've seen Consulting
31:47
like that and unfortunately, but my goal is one
31:51
not gonna be a sitting git One of the things
31:53
I have found has been scenarios. So over my years,
31:57
people are constantly asking me for scripts because
32:00
there's different situations that are realistic
32:03
and they ask me, give me word for word what I'm
32:06
supposed to say. And I say, okay, I can help
32:09
you with certain things, but let's walk through
32:12
it. So a lot of trainings that I give nowadays,
32:15
let's just say it's... how to make students feel
32:20
included, right? And so I'll talk to them about,
32:24
okay, here's a scenario. How would you approach
32:26
it? And so sometimes they're working in groups.
32:30
Sometimes they're working individually. It just
32:32
kind of depends. And we'll break that down. A
32:36
lot of them, they just, a lot of... the work
32:38
that I do, people want to know how to respond
32:41
in situations. So not only do I support them
32:44
in that way, and then I also talk about, well,
32:46
how can we be proactive as well? So we're not
32:49
just waiting for something to happen, but we're
32:51
also looking at it from, okay, again, I created
32:54
a community where students feel as if they could
32:56
be themselves, not just at home, not two different
32:59
people. They get to be themselves at school.
33:02
and they get to be themselves at home as well.
33:05
How do we create that community and culture?
33:07
So that's what a principal would get. I would
33:10
work with them in regards to creating some buy
33:13
-in and then not just buy -in ownership from
33:15
their staff because it's going to require some
33:17
change. Sometimes people will say stuff like,
33:21
oh, we've always done it this way. And so now
33:23
you're coming in and you're asking them to change,
33:25
to look at different perspectives, look at things
33:27
differently from the lens of your students and
33:30
their families. Uh, and so that does, that's
33:33
going to require some pushback. It just always
33:35
does. Um, but I support school leaders in that
33:38
capacity of like, okay, here's a change. Here's
33:40
a structure that we're going to use. Here's a
33:42
vision that we're going to create. Uh, and then
33:44
here's the ownership that you're going to put
33:45
in with your whole entire school community. Uh,
33:48
and let's do this work. So that's, that's what's
33:50
going to be different or unique from, uh, maybe
33:53
some of the others out there. Yeah. And Sheldon,
33:56
you're obviously in front of leaders a lot now,
33:58
right? Um, If we could take you back for a second
34:01
to your school administrator days, what what
34:06
surprised you the most from that? Like when you
34:08
first started, like what was something about
34:11
that role that just surprised you? As first thing
34:17
that stood out is. Bias is I was in a place old.
34:25
My second school that I was at, it was in Oregon,
34:28
actually. And I just remember there was, okay,
34:32
I'll give you an example. Because I was making
34:35
some assumptions and I really had to look into
34:39
things differently. So I show up to school one
34:42
day and again, Oregon's very agricultural based.
34:44
I mean, lush trees. I mean, it's a beautiful
34:46
place. And I had a parent. They came to the school
34:51
with a wheelbarrow full of watermelons. And they
34:55
came up to me and he said, you know, Mr. Aikens,
35:00
I have all these watermelons for you. And I,
35:04
again, was a little thrown off. I was like, what
35:08
is he coming at me for about these watermelons?
35:11
Like, I identify as a black person and that's
35:13
a stereotype. And so I honestly thought he was
35:17
coming at me wrong in my mind. But then the more
35:20
I talk, so I was kind of like, what? And I guess
35:25
he could tell something was off, but then I could
35:28
see it in his face, in his demeanor. He really
35:31
didn't mean he literally had extra watermelons.
35:33
He was offering the principal. It didn't matter
35:36
what I looked like. He would have still offered
35:38
the principal extra watermelons. And so that
35:42
was one of the things I had to realize is that
35:44
not everybody is coming at you in a way that
35:48
might be deemed as offensive. A lot of times
35:51
people don't mean anything by certain things,
35:54
like stuff that they do, they had the best intentions.
35:57
And he was one of the most supportive parents
36:00
on campus. Like he used to come by, fix stuff,
36:03
handyman style, wooden chart. Like he was a stay
36:05
-at -home dad, so he would just do a lot of things
36:07
around the school. And I just didn't know him
36:10
that much, one of our first encounters, and I
36:14
had to realize my biases, my assumptions about
36:18
someone, little information, I don't know enough.
36:22
Um, maybe really spend a little bit more time
36:25
to think about what their approach is or where
36:28
they're coming from with how they're interacting
36:31
with me. It doesn't always, you don't always
36:33
have to jump to this defensive mode, but it could
36:36
be some genuine intentions behind things. Sure.
36:41
And, uh, the other question I have for you too
36:43
is like the, you obviously were there steeped
36:47
in, you know, in the school. day to day, you
36:50
know, working. What's something that you feel
36:54
like you could not have learned from the outside
36:57
looking in or maybe like even, you know, for
37:00
people who make some make assumptions about schools
37:03
and how they operate? What's something that you
37:07
could really only learn or, you know, take it
37:10
more broadly or maybe just individually if you
37:13
want to. But what could you not learn at? about
37:18
schools unless you are actually working in one.
37:22
I would say. This is maybe something that you
37:25
don't get taught in class or in school, like
37:28
teacher or principal school is the importance
37:31
of having students or sorry, staff that genuinely
37:35
care about your kids. I didn't realize how important
37:37
that was. I've had some really bad teachers in
37:40
my experience that were legitimately just trying
37:43
to catch checks. They needed a job. and not necessarily
37:46
this is a career or something that they were
37:48
passionate about, or kids were something that
37:51
they were passionate about. And I learned that
37:54
from a few situations where I just knew they
37:58
weren't the best fit. You know, sometimes people
38:00
interview well. You only get like an hour or
38:03
so with somebody. Let's say it's an hour. and
38:07
you got the resume and that's a bit all you have.
38:10
Of course, the references are going to be people
38:11
that they've selected. So there's a bias there
38:14
when you call that person to check in. So learning
38:18
the importance of whatever your vision is, because
38:21
if you're a school leader, I'm just going to
38:22
assume that you want the best for your kids.
38:24
I'm just assuming that you're not just trying
38:26
to collect a check, but you actually have some
38:28
sort of passion and drive. to create a community
38:32
or a generation, future generations of folks
38:34
that are going to be very pivotal in the society.
38:38
Who knows? You might have a future president,
38:39
you might have future Congress folks, whatever.
38:42
But just making sure that you are staffed or
38:45
surrounded by people that genuinely love kids.
38:48
And if you have that, that makes such a difference
38:51
versus having individuals that are literally
38:54
there just because they need to be there and
38:56
they need to pay their light bills. Yeah. So,
39:02
uh, Sheldon, one of the things that I know that
39:03
you have on the horizon here is you're working
39:05
on an app, um, combining some, some different
39:08
ideas together. Um, that's not quite ready for
39:12
prime time yet, although it's, uh, very near
39:15
on the horizon. Do you want to give us a little
39:17
insight into, to what that's about? I love the
39:20
show. Y 'all are awesome. So, uh, here's, yes.
39:24
Thank you for setting me up with that question.
39:27
So here's the thing, uh, as I mentioned earlier
39:29
about the collectivism. versus the individualism.
39:32
I've noticed our society in the United States
39:35
is heavily leaning towards the individualism,
39:39
right? So again, a student is looked at as the
39:42
top of their class and kids are taught to compete
39:45
for individual rankings and individualism. So
39:50
to get the best scholarships, to get... the best
39:53
this or the best that. Like that's what as parents,
39:56
we tell our kids, we come up in this competitive
40:00
nature. However, again, like I said, there are
40:04
students that are from the collectivist background.
40:07
And so they operate a little differently. So
40:09
like, for example, if you ask a student, hey,
40:13
I just did this group assignment. What did you
40:16
contribute? You know, that's one of the things
40:17
that we tend to do as teachers. We say, you know,
40:20
there's four kids in this group. Yes, each student,
40:23
what was your contribution? And so one of the
40:25
students, let's just call him Jose. He says,
40:28
well, we made sure that we did the research and
40:32
we made sure that we had everything in order.
40:37
And no, no, no, no, no, no. Jose, what did you
40:40
actually like? What did you do? And again, Jose
40:42
goes back to, well, well, we decided that we're
40:46
going to. So now the teachers making this assumption
40:48
that either Jose probably didn't do anything.
40:52
And so he's just saying we, but there could be
40:56
something else underlying. He may come from a
40:59
community, a collectivist community, where again,
41:02
what's yours is mine and what's mine is yours.
41:04
And so he might be used to a situation where,
41:08
I give you an example, and I talk about this
41:10
in my book, where like when I grew up, the refrigerator,
41:13
when you go in the refrigerator, every item in
41:16
there, milk, eggs, whatever. My mom would be
41:19
like, don't touch this, don't touch that because
41:22
that's, I'm making pancakes tomorrow or whatever
41:25
it is. Every item in that refrigerator was allocated
41:29
to something and we had to ask permission. As
41:32
an adult, the way I run my refrigerator, if you're
41:35
hungry, just grab something, right? So it's all
41:38
of our food. Sure, you might know something that
41:41
my son might like or prefer, but I could eat
41:43
it too, vice versa. So it's one of those situations
41:47
where We have this idea of If I'm hungry, I'm
41:52
and there's a bag of chips. I'm gonna get a bag
41:54
of chips I don't necessarily have to ask permission
41:56
because I don't know if this is allocated towards
41:57
something so that Jose situation where he's used
42:01
to a background where everything is ours like
42:04
we just we all did it we all did it and So it
42:07
gets there's some back and forth and again that
42:09
can escalate to something else So I see a lot
42:13
of teachers struggle with doing collaborative
42:15
learning for making their own biases and sometimes
42:18
their assumptions on how the collaborative learning
42:21
looks. So what I've been working on is a product
42:24
that's going to make collaborative learning a
42:26
lot easier. It's going to be fun and it's engaging
42:29
and it's something that can be done online. I
42:32
will be rolling that out in a few weeks. So I
42:35
appreciate the preview that I can provide, but
42:38
it's based off of those individual teachers that
42:40
are saying, look, I realize when I do my classrooms,
42:45
it tends to be individualistic, but I want to
42:48
create a balance to where there's a lot of collectivism.
42:51
And my collective of students will thrive in
42:54
this community as well. And so that's what this
42:57
tool is for. It's fun. It's engaging. It provides
43:02
challenges. And again, it gets everyone in that
43:06
group involved. I'll leave it there. It's a good
43:12
teaser. And I'm excited to check it out when
43:14
it becomes available. You better message us when
43:16
and where we can find it, too. OK, absolutely.
43:22
Yeah, so, Sheldon, we're going to move into kind
43:24
of the... the final parts of the program here
43:26
where we get into some lightning round questions
43:29
where we get to know our guest a little bit more
43:31
here. And, you know, you're free to give short
43:34
one word answers or you're free to elaborate
43:36
to describe what it is that you mean. That's
43:39
entirely up to you. So I think I get to start
43:41
with the first one here. You know, since we brought
43:45
up potluck earlier in the episode. So you mentioned
43:48
some of the things that you like to make here,
43:50
too. But what's your go to potluck item when
43:53
you actually go to to a potluck dinner. Go to
43:57
item is lasagna. However, I just got a Blackstone
44:01
grill for Father's Day not too long ago. So I've
44:04
been on these smash burgers. So that might be
44:07
a close second. Yes. Favorite place to go in
44:11
Arizona. Favorite place to go in Arizona is.
44:18
I go to the roller skating rink. I like to roller
44:21
skate. So that's probably my favorite place.
44:23
Every week I'm there. Awesome. You got any cool
44:27
moves? I get down. Now, see, so I'm not going
44:32
to, like someone, I was actually talking to my
44:35
staff yesterday about this because they, everybody
44:37
gets surprised at Sheldon roller skates. And
44:40
I don't do the derby. Respect is just not my
44:43
thing. But yeah, I'm dancing and I'm grooving
44:47
out there on skatering adult night. Sure. How
44:50
about what's your, you know, a current book,
44:52
TV show or movie that you've been into? So I
44:56
like to watch this show on YouTube. It's called
44:58
Pop the Balloon. It's Pop the Balloon or Find
45:01
Love. They actually film it here in Phoenix.
45:04
And so I watch them every Wednesday. I think
45:08
I've seen clips of that maybe on YouTube. It's
45:13
toxic dating, but it's entertaining. So I do
45:16
watch that. Sure. What's something people would
45:18
be surprised to learn about you? I'm actually
45:22
very introverted. People don't believe me when
45:23
I tell them. I tend to turn things on or time
45:29
frame. And then after that, don't talk to me
45:31
like I leave me alone. So I'm very introverted.
45:34
I'm very private as well. So I keep a very small
45:36
circle. So if you if you're in my inner circle,
45:39
you know all about me outside of that. I am Like
45:44
I said, I tend to turn things on Since you mentioned
45:48
the the start of school coming up for some of
45:50
us sooner than others In your in your mind, what
45:54
is purposeful? Purposeful leading teaching and
45:57
learning look like as we enter this upcoming
45:59
school year it's being intentional and not just
46:02
again not just trying to collect the paycheck,
46:03
but really have the the kids in mind. And when
46:07
we have the kids in mind, that means that we
46:09
are creating ownership with our students and
46:11
not just telling them this is what we're going
46:13
to do for the year. But we're also asking our
46:15
students, what would you like to see this year?
46:18
So I know we have standards, right? And so there
46:22
are certain topics that we have to cover. It
46:24
is what it is. But how do you want to learn about
46:27
these topics? And how would you like to teach
46:30
some of these topics? That is what I would like
46:32
to see. when it comes to being purposeful and
46:35
intentional when I work. All right, Sheldon,
46:38
so we're doing the conference tomorrow. You're
46:41
our keynote speaker. What's your walk up song?
46:46
I love Jackson five. I want you back that the
46:51
one that the intro like that. That is my intro
46:56
song. I love that song. Cool. Well, we have us
46:59
we have a Spotify playlist now for the podcast
47:01
so we will get that song added to the play. Yes
47:05
And just a few rapid fire here this or that and
47:08
you've got to give us just either or okay Are
47:12
you a notebook and paper guy or do you use an
47:15
app? notebook and paper all day Are you an early
47:18
bird or a night owl early bird? Do you prefer
47:22
mountains or beach? Beach when traveling Are
47:28
you listening to podcast or music? I would say
47:32
probably podcast. Do you prefer a text or a call?
47:37
Text. And are you the first to leave the party
47:40
or are you the last one out the door at the end?
47:42
If I go to the party, I am the first to leave.
47:46
You got to get me there first. Yeah. All right,
47:51
children. Well, as a as a fellow introvert, I
47:53
appreciate you sharing all that you did and.
47:56
I just want to give you a chance. Is there I
47:58
know we talked about the app a little bit, but
47:59
there is there and that's coming out in a couple
48:01
of weeks. Is there anything else that you want
48:04
to plug as far as what you have going on for,
48:07
you know, websites, socials, any of that type
48:10
of thing? Absolutely. Thank you. Yeah. If you
48:12
want to follow me on Instagram, I'm at Sheldon
48:14
Aikens and that's S H E L D O N. My last name
48:17
is E A K I N S. So Sheldon Aikens on Instagram.
48:21
I'm also on LinkedIn with the same name. My YouTube
48:24
channel is Akins teaches. That's where I have
48:27
my podcast leading equity and you can find the
48:29
videos there If you're looking to collaborate
48:32
in any sort of way of partnerships and workshops
48:35
keynotes trainings You can go to my website at
48:38
purposeful two four seven comm And then the last
48:41
piece is on August 13th. I will be doing my reveal
48:46
and so that's coming out on August 13th So follow
48:48
me online. You can get more information Okay
48:52
Well, thanks for joining us, Sheldon. We really
48:54
appreciate it. Pleasure's mine. Thank you. Thanks,
48:56
Sheldon. Thanks for listening to Integrate This.
49:04
Want to take your learning further? Head over
49:06
to our YouTube channel for quick tutorials, deep
49:09
dives, and more EdTech tips you can use right
49:12
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49:15
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or wherever you get your podcasts. Until next
49:22
time, keep exploring, keep innovating and keep
49:26
integrating this.