Latest / Recovery Chronicles / Recovery Chronicles Ep. 196 - Tyler

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Recovery Chronicles Ep. 196 - Tyler · Recovery Chronicles

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Recovery Chronicles. I'm your host, Liz, an addiction
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: counselor at Heartview in Bismarck, North Dakota. This podcast is
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: dedicated to the real human stories of people in recovery
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: from alcohol and other drugs. People who have chosen change
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: and who wake up every day walking that journey. These
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: are stories of hope, healing, and resilience and proof that
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: transformation is possible. All right. I'm back again. And today
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: I have Tyler with me. So welcome, Tyler.
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: Another one that was voluntold that they don't get an
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: option to do this with me.
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: But I'm excited to do it.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: So what was your drug of choice, Tyler?
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: My drug of choice, my main love is alcohol.
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: Me too.
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  Speaker 2: It's a beast. It's a beast.
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: It is.
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  Speaker 2: But, I mean, mix that with a little bit of
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: Adderall and meth or whatever it may be and, you know.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: Then life is grand.
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Then I can get through the day and I
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: can drink longer. Yeah.
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: Or so we fool ourselves into thinking that everything is
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: grand when we're drinking and mixing all kinds of ridiculous
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: things together.
• 1:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: What is your sober date?
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: My sober date is February 23rd, 2026.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: Good for you. That's incredible.
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: Tomorrow it will be eight months.
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: That's awesome. How are you feeling?
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  Speaker 2: Incredible. And it's crazy. I first found the rooms of
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: AA when I was 17.
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: So it's been 16 years that I've had this long sober.
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: Okay.
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  Speaker 2: Which is crazy to me.
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: You know, not that I actively, like, sought recovery in
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: those 16 years.
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: Right.
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  Speaker 2: But there were bouts and lows and all that stuff.
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: So making it this far is a miracle. And I
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: used to, like, make fun of people that were like,
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: it's a miracle you're two days sober. I'm like, whatever. Yeah.
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: But now it's like, I get it. Right. You know,
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: because it's so hard.
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  Speaker 1: It is hard. And it's a continuous battle every single
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: day to... want to continue on that path of not
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: falling back into those old behavior patterns and doing all
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: of the absurd things that we as alcoholics and addicts
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: have done yeah um but that sigh of relief that
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: you kind of let out when you said that you
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: were tomorrow is eight months sober for you and that
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: it's been this incredible journey just like made my heart
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: so happy for you.
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: You see me at some pretty big lows.
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: But in this beautiful glow about you that I have
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: kind of watched come to light has been amazing.
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: What was the moment that you realized that you just
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: can't live like this anymore?
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  Speaker 2: So I had woken up in the hospital on February 23rd.
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: the night before I tried to take my life. There
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: was just a lot of things leading up to that.
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: It was, I lost my job. I had lost my home.
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: I was in the Motel 6 with my mom and
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: she was wasted. And I had just gotten off the
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: phone with my friend and I just decided to swallow
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: up the pill cabinet, you know. And next thing I know,
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  Speaker 2: it's the next day I'm waking up in the ICU
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: and the nurse came in and she was like do
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: you know how many people we've had a call worried
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  Speaker 2: about you and I was just like I can't do
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: this anymore yeah you know and then the next day
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: I was on heart view.
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  Speaker 1: Good I'm really glad that you're still here and yeah
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  Speaker 1: I know that I know that struggle of suicide and
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: suicidal ideation and wanting to end your own life and
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: not wanting to be here and not even really fully
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  Speaker 1: understanding why you don't want to be here but everything
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  Speaker 1: just feels so bad and so heavy that you don't
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: want to be here.
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  Speaker 2: Anymore yeah i didn't know like you didn't i didn't
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  Speaker 2: feel like there was another way out which is so
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  Speaker 2: sad because there's so many resources out there right um
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  Speaker 2: you know And so I thought I was trying to
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  Speaker 2: escape something when I originally did it. Because what's so
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  Speaker 2: scary to me is that when I made that decision,
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  Speaker 2: it was a split-second decision. It wasn't a thought-out plan.
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  Speaker 2: And that's the part that was like, oh, my God, like,
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  Speaker 2: you know, I've thought about it before, but I've never taken, like,
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: that extreme measure to go that far.
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  Speaker 1: Right.
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  Speaker 2: And I was talking to my therapist about it. And
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  Speaker 2: I was like, yeah, I was just trying to escape.
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  Speaker 2: And he was like, are you sure you weren't asking...
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: for someone to save you and like whether that be
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  Speaker 2: my dad or you know god right whatever that may
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  Speaker 2: be um but yeah that was that just hit me
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  Speaker 2: really really heavily.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah that yeah because i've been in those moments too
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  Speaker 1: where it's not it's not a planned thing it's not
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  Speaker 1: something that i've thought about for days or weeks or
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: months it just the thought is there and then i
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: don't know what happens then It just is almost like
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: a relief washes over you and you do it and
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  Speaker 1: that's it. Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: And go to sleep or whatever happens. And I think
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  Speaker 2: the most impactful thing that someone told me was, you know,
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: they said, can you imagine feeling all that pain you
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: feel and its energy inside of you? What happens when
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: you do pass? That energy is going to be dispersed
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: to your loved ones, your friends, your sister, your brother,
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: your mom, your dad. And that really impacted me. And
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  Speaker 2: I was like, I don't want anyone to feel the
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: way I do. So I need to make a change
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: and fix whatever is going on inside. Yeah.
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: You know. Before recovery, what lie did addiction convince you
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: was true?
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  Speaker 2: That I was the best version of myself.
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: I think that was like the biggest lie that like
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: I needed it to perform. I needed it to show up.
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  Speaker 2: I have a better version of myself when I'm drunk.
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  Speaker 2: Like that's insane. Like I don't think I've ever met
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  Speaker 2: anyone and been like that person is way better when
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: they're wasted. Right. No one is their best version of themselves.
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: No. Not even a little. Are we good versions of ourselves?
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: And I, I lied to myself and told myself the
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: same thing. And then it was this wild journey of
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: once I got sober, then I wasn't as angry anymore.
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: I wasn't trying to solve all of my problems with
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: my fists. And so then it was like, Oh, you're
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: a fighter. I'm a fighter. At least when I'm under
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: the influence, I am a fighter. Yeah. Sober me is
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: not a fighter.
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  Speaker 2: I couldn't even picture that. That's crazy.
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  Speaker 1: Sober me is I hate confrontation. Sober. And it makes
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: me very uncomfortable. But under the influence, I will box anybody.
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: So probably a good thing that I'm no longer. Yeah.
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: For everyone's safety. Yeah.
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: Exactly. Everyone is much safer with a sober Liz. Um,
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: what's something you survived that people never saw?
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  Speaker 2: Um, the inner hate that I had for myself, I
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: think was a huge thing. And I think that just,
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: I think it was like, so as a gay man,
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: you know, you grow up being different and you grow up,
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: you know, not wanting to be who you are. And
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  Speaker 2: for me, in my particular situation, I was molested by
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: a gay man. And so I didn't even know, I
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: was too young to know my sexuality.
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  Speaker 1: Sure.
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  Speaker 2: When I finally reached the age where I was like,
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: I think I'm gay, I hated gay people because of
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: what had happened to me.
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: Right.
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  Speaker 2: And then to take that even further, the, you know,
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: the not fitting in and, you know, that's traumatic as
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: a kid, you know? Um, and not that I was
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: like ever, I mean, in middle school I was bullied severely, um,
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  Speaker 2: But in high school, I didn't really get bullied.
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: So, yeah, I think the inner hate that I have
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  Speaker 2: had towards myself, and it's something that I even struggle
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  Speaker 2: with as an adult, is, like, no one chooses to
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: be different.
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  Speaker 3: No.
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  Speaker 1: Absolutely not. You know?
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: Like, how can I make my life harder? Right. You know?
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: Right.
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  Speaker 2: Especially in a conservative state, because I'm from Texas. Now
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: I live in North Dakota.
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  Speaker 1: So you went from one conservative state to another, right? Yeah.
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: I did the same thing because I'm from South Dakota.
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: So I went from South Dakota to North Dakota. So
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  Speaker 1: I didn't make my life any easier either.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: And that's such a powerful statement that nobody chooses to
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  Speaker 1: be different. I certainly didn't wake up one day and
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  Speaker 1: making this checklist of, oh, how can I disappoint my
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: parents some more? I'm already gay. Check. Got that one. Alcoholic.
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  Speaker 2: Check. Fighter. Check. Let's add a couple felonies and maybe
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  Speaker 2: misdemeanors to that.
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  Speaker 1: Check.
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  Speaker 2: Right.
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  Speaker 1: So we don't choose those things. We don't choose to
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  Speaker 1: be different be our sexuality or having a substance use
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  Speaker 1: disorder we don't choose those things right as far as
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: our substance use do we choose to use substances that
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  Speaker 1: we could potentially become addicted to absolutely for sure but
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  Speaker 1: there's never that moment where it's like yep today i'm
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: gonna get addicted to alcohol.
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  Speaker 2: Right today's the day looking forward.
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: To it yeah happy tuesday right.
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I think that, you know, I was told
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: early in recovery that imagine you're in the desert and
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: it's been three days and you haven't had water. And
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: someone comes up to you and is like, hey, I'll
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: give you this water, but you have to give up
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: your family, you have to give up your job, your car,
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: all these things. In that moment for survival, you're going
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: to take that water. And that's what it's like an addiction.
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: You don't want to give up the things that you love.
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  Speaker 2: But in that moment, you feel like you need it
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  Speaker 2: to survive.
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: Yes. Yeah. And so then we do give up all
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: those things that we love and that we care about,
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: even ourselves. And yeah, having that inner hate and having that,
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: I hate gay people. And so then all of that
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: hate gets projected inwards. And how do you handle that? Well,
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: that's an ugly feeling, so I don't want to feel that.
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: So I'm going to numb everything. And how do you
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: numb things? You use substances like alcohol, drugs, whatever you
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: can find, even people.
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. It doesn't just end with drugs and alcohol.
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  Speaker 2: Addiction can take many forms, whether that be a person
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: or gambling or sex or, you know.
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, food.
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: Food, absolutely. Absolutely. I actually just had to stop eating out.
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: I'm now cooking at home strictly and, you know, yeah.
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. What part of recovery surprised you the most?
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: Having faith in myself and trusting myself. I never thought
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: I always was looking for outside validation. Yeah. And now
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: I can like confidently make decisions or if I don't
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: know the appropriate action, I go and talk to an
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: expert or someone that knows the stuff about stuff, you know, like,
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: you know, say I'm you know, struggling with a decision
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: about a medical issue. I'm going to go talk to
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: a doctor now instead of just asking everyone in my life.
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: You know, trusting yourself is a huge thing right now, though,
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: for me. Yes.
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: Yes. And learning to trust yourself is huge. And yeah,
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: then finding those people that have, you know, educational backgrounds
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: and things like that. Going to a doctor because a
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: medical issue is going wrong instead of breaking your leg
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: and going to the next door neighbor and saying, hey,
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: what should I do about this? I'll put a bandaid on. Okay, cool.
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: I'll do that.
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: Or are people that are going to, you know, lead
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: you in the wrong direction? Like your mom, as much
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: as your mom probably wants the best for you, she
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: might want a decision that or make a decision that,
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: you know, is benefiting her or I don't know. Does
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: that make sense?
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Because unfortunately, not everybody in your life is going
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: to want the best for you.
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: And sometimes, unfortunately, that includes family and people that society
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: tells us that has to love us.
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: Which isn't always the case, unfortunately. What's harder, getting sober
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: or staying emotionally honest?
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: For me, it's getting sober. it's so hard to walk
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: back in the rooms after a relapse, you know, even
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: though you're not judged for it.
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: You think everyone is, but, um, yes. And getting emotionally
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: like honest for me, it's, you have to make yourself
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: uncomfortable and like just being honest in your true self,
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: not with everyone, a sponsor, a counselor. Yes.
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: You know, there are certain people that, Get those versions
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: of you that are very open, honest, and vulnerable. Right.
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: Does the lady at the grocery store checking you out
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: need that version? No, probably not.
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: Probably not. You don't want to freak her out.
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: But it is. It's so true. After a relapse has happened,
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: having to go to those people that have encouraged you
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: and supported you and tell them, hey, I screwed up,
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: this is what happened. And they aren't judging you, but
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: you're judging you. And you are, when that happens, we
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: are the hardest on ourselves.
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: For sure.
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: And most people are like, hey, I'm really glad that
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: you came back. This is incredible. Like, what do you need?
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: How can I support you? Right. Meanwhile, we are that
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: mean girl in high schools. Exactly. It's telling you how
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: terrible you are. Right.
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: Exactly. Exactly. And then like someone asks you what you
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: need and you're like, that thing, I'm fine. Yeah. Like, no.
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: Be honest.
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: Be honest. You know, be real with yourself.
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Be real with yourself. Be real with the people
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: that are asking, how can I help you? What can
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: I do to support you in this moment?
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: Even if it's just I need to sit for five
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: minutes and not. be anyone to anything or anyone. I
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: just need to sit here for five minutes.
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: Okay, cool.
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: Come into my office and sit for five minutes.
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: Party up, relax, chill, you know?
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah. We can talk, you can sit, I can work,
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: we can do whatever. Right.
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah. It's important to have those people in your life.
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: And I think that you are really starting to become
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: that person for a lot of people with your role
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: in the community. Oh man. Yeah.
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: Good luck, Bismarck. That's a really big compliment. Thank you.
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because I have seen people come in and make
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: these major transformations. And then one of the biggest things
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: that they say that they have changed is that they're
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: in sober living. But not just any sober living. They
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: are in sober living with you. Yeah.
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: Well, that is like beyond the biggest compliment. I mean,
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: and but they do it themselves. They do all the work.
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: You know, I'm there to support them and be a
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: friend and be a confidant. But at the end of
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: the day, they're doing the work. And it's it's so
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: awesome to see.
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: And I think that's been a huge part of me
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: staying sober, too. You know, jumping both feet in to
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: the recovery world. Yeah.
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: You know. Yes, which is selfishly a big part of
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: why I decided to go to school to be an LAC.
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: How can I make money out of this? No.
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. You know, I mean, it's like, OK, I'm
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: supposed to give this gift away, but how can I
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: do that without it being totally absurd? And so it's like, oh,
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: I can go to school to be a counselor. And
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: I tell people all the time that I haven't done.
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: I mean, I've done my own hard work, but your
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: hard work you've done. that's all you. I've been a
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: cheerleader for you for a long time. And I'll continue
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: to be a cheerleader. But as far as the hard work,
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: that's all you. So you have to give yourself credit.
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: Thank you. What does a bad day in recovery look
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: like for you?
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: I'm missing a meeting, probably. I mean, and that's such
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: a small thing. But like, I don't really have bad days.
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: I have bad moments. You know, there's stuff that happens
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: in crap or, you know, why, you know, but I
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: get through it and I handle it better. It doesn't
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: have to. Those bad moments don't have to turn into
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: a bad day now.
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: Right. And then those bad days don't have to turn
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: into bad weeks and months and years.
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: And yeah, you don't have to string them all together.
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: And don't get me wrong, like there was quite a,
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: you know, time there in my early recovery and I'm
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: still in my early recovery, but like where the bad
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: days they did, the bad moments lasted a little bit
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: longer than most, sometimes a couple of days. And I mean,
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: before I just went down to Texas to visit my
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: family and before that I was really getting burnt out
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: from both ends, from school, work, everything. And that reset
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: was exactly what I needed, you know?
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: So yeah. Yeah.
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: The bad days do become less and less.
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: They do.
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: They do.
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: And from somebody that has long-term sobriety, even the bad
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: moments get less and less. Not saying that my life
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: is rainbows and sunshine. It's not. I am still human
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: and I deal with emotions and people that drive me
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: crazy and people that I love.
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: And it's usually the ones you love that drive you
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: the craziest.
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: But they do. And I have dealt with profound grief
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: in my sobriety. And even that has felt less heavy now.
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: than the grief that I experienced in my active addiction.
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: Oh, for sure.
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: And being able to, do those things feel good to feel? No.
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: But it's such a blessing to feel it and know
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: that I don't have to try and escape from it.
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: And what can I use to escape from this?
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: What's something recovery gave you that has nothing to do
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: with sobriety dates?
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: A chance to be present again for my family. That
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: has been huge. I was invited to my little sister's wedding.
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: I hadn't seen my family in almost five years. And
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: just to be like the moment she rounded the corner
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: and was walking down the aisle with my dad, I
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: just lost it. Just bawling. But in that moment, I
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: realized I was like, this is why I did it.
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: Like to not miss a moment like this. Cause granted,
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: Even if I was in active addiction and she had
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: invited me, I, one, probably wouldn't have saved up the
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: money to go. And two, if I was there, I
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: wouldn't have been present.
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: Right. You know, it was such the biggest gift I
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: could have ever received was being there for her.
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I love that. I love that you were able
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: to be a part of that day for her.
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: It was so awesome.
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah. There's nothing, there truly is nothing better. I have
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: two sisters that are both married. There's nothing better than
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: seeing your sibling get married.
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: I'm still at a loss for words for like how
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: magical that day was. Just, you know, she's my baby sister.
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: You know, my best friend since I was eight years old.
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: You know, like, yeah.
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah. It's so magical and there's so much love. It just,
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: there's no way to explain it. So I'm so glad
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: for you that you got to be present in that moment.
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: Thank you. Yeah, it was amazing.
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: What sober habit would active addiction you make fun of?
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: Doing my homework.
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: God, he does that. Nerd.
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: You know. Yeah, I couldn't really think of anything other than, yeah,
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: doing my homework because I was a terrible student. I
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: started failing in like the fourth grade, which is, I mean,
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: I'm sure some other stuff happened that I haven't processed yet.
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: But I started failing in the fourth grade. And so
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: half of it is just showing up, you know, at school.
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: It's crazy how much information you can retain when you
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: actually attend class. Same, right? Yeah. Yeah. I thought of
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: that when I was in school, too. And it was like, man.
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'm a high school dropout. I dropped out
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: my senior year of high school because I was that smart.
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: That's what I want to do. I dropped out my
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: junior year.
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: And yeah, then when I was in college, I attended
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: class and I paid attention and then homework was easy.
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: Imagine that, right? Imagine that. Yeah, it's cool because it's like,
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: I'm 33, it's my first year in college, and I'm
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: in school with a completely different generation. And it's so
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: funny to, like, see them make all the mistakes that
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: I was making, too.
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: And it's like, no matter what you say to them,
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: they're not gonna, you know?
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: No.
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: Youth is really wasted on the young.
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: It truly is. Yeah. What phrase from treatment or meetings
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: lives in your head Renfri?
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: Unpopular opinion, but fake it till you make it.
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: I think it's about resilience. I don't think it's necessarily
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: about being like sitting in a dumpster fire and be like,
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: this is great.
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: You know, I'm so nice and warm and cozy in here.
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: Right. It's about like, you know what? I don't know
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: exactly what I'm doing, but I'm going to get through it.
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: I'm going to ask for help and I'm going to
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: show up even when I don't feel like it. Yeah.
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: And that's like the biggest thing about just life in general.
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: I think not even just recovery or school, like just
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: showing up is half the battle.
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: It truly is. And more times than not, when you
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: show up after you get there, then it's like, man,
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: this was silly. Why did I not want to show up? Yeah. Right.
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: And like you get in your head about it, you
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: convince yourself to not go. And then it's just it's.
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: And those are the things that like lead me back
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: into my addiction. Like, OK, well, I'm going to miss
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: this meeting. You know, it's not an immediate go drink,
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: go to happy hour. It's a slow it's a slow burn.
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: You know, it's don't go to the meeting. Don't call
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: your sponsor. Cancel that. Lay in bed. Yes. You know.
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: Yes. Wallow in all of the self pity. And but yeah,
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: it does. And it starts with missing one important step.
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: in whatever your routine is that keeps you sober. And
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: that looks different for everybody. You know, I know for me,
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: it's being in constant contact with my higher power. And
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: I struggled with that because I was raised in a
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: Lutheran church. And then all of these things happened that
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: just made me feel like whatever's out there bigger than
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: me hates me.
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: And It has to, right? Because that's what we're told.
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Because I'm gay and my dad took his
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: own life, so my dad's in hell and I'm going
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: to hell.
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: We're all doomed, basically. And then I was told, you know,
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: get on your hands and knees and pray in the
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: morning and at night. But what if he has a
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: lightning bolt with my name on it ready to strike
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: me down?
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: Mm-hmm. You know, and figuring out that it doesn't have
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: to be that way. It doesn't have to be this huge,
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: grandiose getting on my hands and knees and praying. It
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: can be a conversation like we're having.
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: For sure.
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: It can be.
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: It can be the serenity prayer.
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: It can be a thought. You know what I mean?
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: I was told by my sponsor, she was like, you know,
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: for the longest time, I didn't know how to pray.
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: And so she's like, I just said the serenity prayer
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: over and over again.
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: You know, and... It's wherever you're at. And trust me,
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: God will meet you wherever you're at. Yes. And that's
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: the beautiful thing because every difficult thing I've ever been through,
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: I've still gotten through it, you know? Yeah. And yeah,
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: maybe some of it wasn't ideal, but I'm still here.
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: And I think I've never had a problem like believing
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: in God or thinking God hated me or anything like that.
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: My grandma's super spiritual and like, has taught me that
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: god loves me no matter what and it was.
• 27:28
  Speaker 3: Oh so beautiful yeah you should you should meet her
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: she'll get you out of your luperin hellhole oh good.
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: But um no i think that god's there for you
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: every step of the way you know even when it
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: doesn't feel like it.
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah And I learned through my sobriety and finding my
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: higher power that it wasn't God that left me. It
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: was me that left him.
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: Oh, that's huge. I love that. I don't love that,
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: but you know what I mean.
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: Who are you becoming now that you're not living in
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: survival mode?
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: You know, I think I'm becoming... I'm becoming a person
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: that is able to not only be present for others,
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: but to be present for myself.
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: You know, I was so trying to, like, all the
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: time escape from me. Try to get away from me
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: as far as possible, you know? And now I'm content
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: being where I am.
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I know. And I remember that feeling, too.
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: And I still.
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: Even in long-term sobriety, I still have times where I
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: would really like to leave myself in my office overnight
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: and go home for the night.
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: But that crazy woman follows me home.
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: So then it's in moments like that where I have
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: to remember that it's okay for me to.
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: Be me.
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: Mm-hmm. Even the ugly parts of me that I would
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: like to hide away from everyone, including myself, and not
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: admit that exist.
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: But they do. And that's okay. It's how I handle
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: those moments and those sitting in the quiet with myself
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: and not wanting to crawl out of my own skin.
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: Right well and just like knowing that you belong yes
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: it's a huge huge thing.
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: And having some place where you can go where you
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: feel like you truly belong which i have heard is
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: a space that you create at sober living.
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: I hope so i hope that you know people are
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: happy to be there which from what i see they
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: are and you know and it's like i said it's
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: them too you know they they create the space too.
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah and i know sometimes when people like treatment come
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: into sober living they are forced to be there because
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: the courts or their po says hey this is what
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: you have to do right um and i have had
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: people that are like My PO says he's going to
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: revoke me if I don't get into sober living and
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: this is not great. Okay, well, we'll make the best
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: of it. Right. And then they come to sober living
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: with you and they feel that love and that community
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: that has been built in your sober living homes.
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: I think the big thing that SoCo brings to the
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: table that You know, and there's other programs like Hope
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: Manor and Bless Builders, and they're all so great. You know,
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: they have that standard, this is where you need to be.
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: And that's what a lot of people need. Yeah. For SoCo,
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: we are able to like meet some people like where
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: they're at.
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: Like when I first got to SoCo, I had my
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: dog that I've had for eight years. There was no
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: way I was getting into sober living without my dog.
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: It's just not happening. Right.
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: So when they told me I could have him, I
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: went to Sober Living, you know, and there's another guy
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: that was able to bring his dog. And there are
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: situations that we can work with people like there's someone
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: that's on disability and they can't work. But you know what?
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: They can volunteer a few days a week at the
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: soup kitchen.
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: You know, they're still paying their bills, you know, like
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: more so like individualized kind of stuff that. You know,
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: and we also want it to feel like a home there.
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: You know, you're not just a number.
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: Right, right.
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: You know?
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: Which I think is so huge, and you're not expecting
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: people to fit into this cookie-cutter recovery and all of
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: the things, because you and I both know that that
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: doesn't happen.
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: Not everything looks the same for everybody. No. You know,
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: some people, I mean, recovery can be the gym and
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: a therapist, right?
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: The therapy could be community service. You know, there's so
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: many other avenues that you can take for an individualized recovery.
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: Without it being the traditional.
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: This is the 12 steps. This is what you do.
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: And we do have the people work the 12 steps.
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: But we also tell them if you work the 12
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: steps and you hate it, you never have to do
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: it again.
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: Just try it.
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: Just try it. Yeah.
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: And once you're done, you're done.
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: You still have to make meetings, though. So you might
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: as well.
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: There's nothing that could hurt from doing the 12 steps.
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: No, no.
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: You know, but there is other avenues. There's, you know,
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: harm reduction. There's smart recovery. There's Dharma. There's so, so
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: many groups out there.
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: That, you know, I really do want to bring a
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: Dharma recovery to Bismarck. What is that? It's like it's
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: the Buddhist approach to the 12 steps.
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: So they follow the eightfold path.
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: You know, it goes off the Four Noble Truths. Suffering
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: is inevitable. Suffering can be ceased. Suffering is ceased by
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: following the Eightfold Path, which is like right action, right speech.
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's very similar to like, you know, the
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: Four Agreements.
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: You know?
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah. That's beautiful. Yeah. Let's figure out how we can
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: do it. I'm on board.
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: Let's do it.
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: Um, what's something that you had to grieve in your recovery?
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: Um, my relationship with my mother and I think a
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: few relationships in general. Um, you know, it sucks whenever
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: you get into recovery because, not sucks, it's hard when
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: you get into recovery and you still have those people
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: that are still out there using. And you want to
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: be there for them and you want the world for
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: them and you love them and you want them to
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: do as well as you're doing. Yeah. You know, you know,
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: it's like we went through all this bad times together.
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: Let's go through the good times now. And they're just
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: not there yet.
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: And I can't allow even someone like my mom, who
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: I love dearly, to bring me down a bad path.
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: And I mean, she was a patient at Harvey at
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: one point. She was doing well and then she fell
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: off and then she was doing well again. And then
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: That's been my whole life. And at this point in
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: my life, I need to do what's right for me.
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: Yes. Yes. And learning that you can carry the message,
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: but you can't carry the addict.
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: Oh, for sure.
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: That was so hard for me to find that healthy balance.
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: Because when I got sober, my mom was still in
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: active addiction. She... has been sober almost 10 years now.
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: That's awesome.
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: And I have an older sister that is still in
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: active addiction and having to find that healthy balance of, no,
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to talk to you about it. And
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: between let me drag you by the hair to this
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: meeting with me. Right.
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: And like, who's really benefiting from that?
• 35:39
  Speaker 3: No one.
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: You know, you're wasting your time. They're unhappy. It causes friction.
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: Yes. You know?
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: And I think there's... You know, that's where boundaries come into.
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: You know, like... I hate that B word. I'm learning
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: to deal with work. But, you know, it's like, hey,
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: I will send you some food on DoorDash, but I'm
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: not going to send you 20 bucks. Right. I will
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: buy you a hotel room, but I'm not going to
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: send you $ 100.
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: There's... Ways you can still help people that are struggling
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: without being enabling.
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: Yes. Yes. And that's hard to, again, find that balance
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: and set those boundaries between the two.
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: Well, and it's like if you don't stick to your
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: part of the boundary whenever they cross it, it's just
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: a suggestion at that point if you don't follow through
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: with what you say you're going to do.
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: Yes. How do you tell the difference between a craving
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: and an emotion?
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: Um, I love the way Rena put it when she
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: was on here. Um, she said that they coincide, I think,
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: or they, they're, they're together, but it's so true. Like
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: you can't have a craving without an emotion. Right. But
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: I think you can have emotion without cravings.
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: Um, yes.
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: Uh, yeah, I, even so drinking is what I did
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: for everything, you know, what, celebrating happy Tuesday morning whenever.
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: I was an all-day drinker.
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: I didn't need a reason.
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: No, no reason at all.
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: Just because my eyes were open.
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: That was my reason.
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: So learning how to deal with my emotions and not
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: immediately turn to trying to change how I feel was
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: a huge hurdle for me.
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: Me too. And yeah, and then having those emotions that
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: would instantly trigger no I need to go drink right
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: now in early recovery and having to sit with that
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: made me want to crawl out of my own skin
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: and have to figure out okay how do I navigate
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: this how do I allow myself to feel this icky
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: emotion because I hate when people say all the good
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: emotions and the bad emotions they're not good or bad
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: they just They just are.
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: They exist.
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: Yes, they exist. Are some of them really nice to feel? Absolutely.
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: Are some of them really icky to feel? Absolutely. Yeah.
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: I mean, the anxiety you feel, you know, that's the
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: main thing I always want to change is my anxiety.
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: You know, I'm going into Walmart. Everyone's there. People are
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: surrounding me. You know what I mean?
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: How do I change that? And I would literally sit
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: in my car when I was in active addiction and
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: just drink out of my bottle until I was like
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: solid enough to walk in.
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: You know, but a big thing that I've learned is
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: just the doing it anyway. Like if you have anxiety,
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: just push through it.
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Just rip that bandaid off and just do it.
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: Just do it. Just go. No one's staring at you.
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: No one's worried about you. No.
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: You know. No, most of that is in your head.
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: You know, is somebody probably going to look at you? Probably.
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: But are they going to judge you for something? Who cares?
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: Because that's a them problem, not a me problem.
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: Because if you're judging me for something that I'm doing, well,
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: then you're probably not living a very good life either.
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: Probably very unhappy. Yeah.
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: So it doesn't matter that, I mean, and that was
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: huge for me in my early recovery too, is any
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: kind of social interaction. I just was like, deer in
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: headlights I don't know how to handle this I don't
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: know even how to interact with the woman at the
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: gas station to buy cigarettes right.
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: Well and it's like even when that anxiety comes on
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: and like maybe it's just your body asking for water
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: I mean like listen to your body Yeah.
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: Are you hungry? Are you, you know, have you had
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: any caffeine today? Have you had too much caffeine today?
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: Yep. What coping skill sounded ridiculous at first but actually worked? Crying.
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: I was told in Heartview that, like, that was on
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: the coping skills list was crying. And I was like,
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: that's just what I do.
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: When I'm alone.
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: This is not a coping skill.
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: But needing a good cry every now and then, like
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: even at a meeting and you feel so ridiculous after
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: you leave the meeting and you're like, everyone saw me cry.
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: And I don't know, like it's such a release of
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: energy that you need. Yeah.
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Sometimes just that ugly cry is just and then
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: all of a sudden you're like, I don't know why
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: that happened.
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: But here we are, and now I can't breathe, but
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: I'm still alive.
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: I literally, I went to an NA meeting, and I
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: got my 90-day key tag, and I just started crying
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: in the middle of my speech, and literally for the
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: whole hour, I was, how embarrassing. Oh, my God.
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: But it's real moments like that that are so powerful
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: for somebody else in early recovery. It shows them that, okay,
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: this may not be a fix-all.
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: But, man, I can get through this.
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: For sure.
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: Even if I have to cry for an hour at
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: a meeting.
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: Ugly cry, sniffling snot. It was so bad.
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: Um... What does self-care realistically look.
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: Like for you? Self-care can be so many things. But
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: doing what's good for me in that moment and not
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: feeling guilty about it is huge. Because, you know, sometimes
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: you overcommit or sometimes you commit to something and something
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: pops up. Or you just need to lay in bed,
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: you know, because you do need those times. Yeah. And
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: not feeling like I'm letting people down. Yeah. You know,
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: take care of yourself. Yes.
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: Who held hope for you before you could hold it
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: for yourself?
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: Man, I had such a big group of people. I'm
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: so blessed. My number one grandma. I mean, I think
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: we all have a grandma that just loves us unconditionally,
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: but she just, she showed me unconditional love and She's
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: my heart and soul, like would do anything for me
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: without any questions asked. And she's sick right now. And like,
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: I felt so guilty because I was like, man, like
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: I spent so many years asking for money, asking for things.
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: And she was always there for me no matter what.
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: But I, that's just who my grandma is. She would
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: do anything for anybody. Yeah. So my grandma, for sure.
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: My little sister, she's never lost contact with me, even
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: when other family has. My best friend, Katie. My best friend, Katie,
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: from back home. I could rot in bed with her
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: all day, ride or die, since we were 15 years old.
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: And I got to see her when I went home,
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: and it was just like no time had passed.
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: I love those friendships where it's... we.
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: Will be like that until we're 80 years old.
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: I mean, time, distance, age doesn't change it. You always
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: revert back to that 15 year old where it's, you know,
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: you're giggling over ridiculous things and it's just feels like home.
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 44:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: And then, I mean, also to the, the family that
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: I've created here.
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: You know, um, everyone that everyone at our view, like,
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: I went to Harvey three times because I loved it
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: so much. Like, you know, the people there is just amazing. Amanda, you, Alex,
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: the counselors there, the case managers there, they just genuinely care. Yeah.
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: You know, and there's a lot of places out there
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: that are just looking for your insurance money. Right. Harvey, like,
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: it just, it feels like home.
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: I'm really glad that you got that experience. What would
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: you say to someone terrified to ask for help?
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: Just do it. You know, like make your you have
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: to get uncomfortable and like getting sober is uncomfortable. Yeah.
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: Very.
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: There's no avoiding it. There's no avoiding it.
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: Even though we try. Yes. We try very hard to
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: avoid that uncomfortability in early recovery. But then all of
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: a sudden it comes out of nowhere and smacks you
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: in the face anyway. Yeah.
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: You know, just you just have to get used to it.
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: But you're not if you ask for help and you're
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: asking the right people, you're going to be happy with
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: what you get. Yeah.
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: You know. Right.
• 45:30
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: There are right and wrong people to ask help from.
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: Find those people, you know, whatever, whoever that looks like
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: for you. As long as it's somebody that is.
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: Even if you have no one, like go and call
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: the suicide hotline or, you know, just talk to somebody. Yes.
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: Reach out to anybody. Yes. The suicide hotline, that 988
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: number is so powerful to use. No matter how things
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: are going, you know, if you're feeling suicidal, if.
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: You are.
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: Waist deep in active addiction and don't know.
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: Who to call. They can help you find the resources
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: in your city or town.
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: You know, and it's, yeah, just sitting in that terrified
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: state is not going to help at all.
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we're here to help in whatever that looks like
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: for you, even if it, you know... I mean, if
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: it takes more than one time, it takes more than
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: one time. We'll still be here.
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: Right. I mean, people aren't going to like this, but
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: even if you're stuck in a situation where you don't
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: know who to call, call the non-emergent cop line. They'll
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: take you to the hospital if they need to. You
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: know what I mean? Yeah, just get down.
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: Even resources like that are available. It doesn't have to
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: be that it's this super scary authoritative thing type of
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: figure um do cops have that kind of figure yes
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: is that what they are there for a hundred percent
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: of the time no absolutely.
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: Not well and so before i you know went to
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: heartview and how that stuff the cops actually got called
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: for me as like a wellness check yeah and they
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: were the nicest guys you know and they genuinely just
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: wanted to make sure that i was okay okay you know?
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: And yeah. And then they help you if you are
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: willing to say, Hey, okay, this is how I'm feeling.
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: And I don't know how, where to go from here. Right.
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: They are willing to help you find some of those resources,
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: even if it is, Hey, let us give you a
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: ride to the closest emergency department. Yep. That's okay. Yeah.
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: I mean, flush your back first, you know, don't have
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: anything illegal on you, but you know, there's, there's always
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: someone that can help.
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: Yep. And if you call the wrong person, they'll help
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: you find the right one. That's, you know, it's kind
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: of crazy. We're kind of all connected in that way that,
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: you know, we can find those resources wherever you are.
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: If it's here in Bismarck, fabulous. We'll help you look
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: here in Bismarck. If it's Mandan, we'll help you, even
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: if it's outside of North Dakota in general, we've had
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: people that our case managers have worked with that are
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: returning to a different state because that's where their family is,
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: that's where their support is. Okay, well, let's get you
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: hooked up in Texas if that's where you're going to
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: go back or wherever it is in the United States,
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: we'll help you look for resources there. Yeah.
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just, it's important to not stay there.
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: And make the moves. But there's also, like, You're going
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: to have to do some footwork. Yeah. You know, it's
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: not just going to be handed to you.
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: No.
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: That's what I tell people. You know, it takes footwork
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: to build it back up again.
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: Yes. We'll help you with tools, though.
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure.
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: And whatever else, you know, whether it's just tools or
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: if it's.
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: A ride or... Yeah.
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: Food.
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: Figure it out yeah for sure.
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: What is the best thing someone said to you early
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: in recovery.
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: You're worth it i think i think that was something
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: that I needed to hear because for the longest time
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: like you don't feel like you deserve good things yeah
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: you know.
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: So yeah yeah you've convinced yourself that you deserve every
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: bad thing and then some that has ever happened in
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: the entire universe right.
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: Well and that just puts you further in that victim
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: mentality where it's like you know you just you sit
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: there and For me, I was like, I just attract
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: bad people. It was the situations I was putting myself in. Yeah.
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: You know, I needed to take accountability for my actions
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: and myself. And yes, did bad things happen to me
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: that weren't my fault? Absolutely.
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: Could I have walked out of the situation? Absolutely.
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 50:23
  Speaker 3: You know?
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: Yes. But nothing that I ever did was my fault.
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: Well, I can see that. You're perfect, Liz.
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: But in figuring that out, that I'm not perfect, not
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: that part, figuring out that, yes, some of those things
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: were direct results of our actions. And that's why some
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: of those crappy things happened is because, well, maybe should
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: have I been hanging out with those people? Probably not.
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, for sure. And I think another thing that
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: gets people stuck there is like they're What is that term?
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: The terminally unique? Yeah. You don't think that anyone else
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: can understand you.
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: I'm the only one that has ever gone through this before.
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: I'm the only one in the entire universe that has
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: ever had to come out to religious parents. Yeah.
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: That mindset will completely, completely destroy you.
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: Yes. You know? What's the most underrated recovery tool?
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: Just doing it anyway.
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: Just.
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: Even if you feel sick, even if you feel tired,
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: do it anyway. If you're scared, if it's uncomfortable, if it's,
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: you know, just do it anyway.
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: You know. That's hard.
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: That's all I have to say about that. That's hard.
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: But it gets easier.
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: It does.
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: The more you practice it. It does.
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: It really does. Yes. Just continue to show up. Whether
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: things are going well, whether things are going bad, process
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: all of it. You know, you don't just have to
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: share just the bad or just the good. Share both.
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: You know, if you've had a bad moment where you
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: have just wanted to walk out on everything and say, well,
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: now I'm done, share that.
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: And if you are celebrating eight months sober in a day,
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: celebrate that. Mm-hmm. yeah you know celebrate all of it
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: not just oh i can only go in and share
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: what's going well or i have to only go in
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: and share what's not going well share all of it
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: yeah um what's a phrase that you're tired of hearing.
• 52:46
  Speaker 2: In recovery i don't know if there are any phrases
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: um I don't know. Call your sponsor, maybe. Or actually,
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: you know what? There is one. You're like, work the
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: steps or you're going to die. I think I'm really
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: tired of hearing that.
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: And I get where that it started because, I mean,
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: AA and NA were the only paths of recovery there
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: for a while.
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: And so it's like the people that stayed, I'm sure,
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: stayed sober. The people that didn't stay probably died right
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: and so like i i get it but like you
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: know i just there's.
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: Some other ways too um what's one thing that sobriety
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: did not magically fix.
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: My inner critic my i call her blowthorn.
• 53:47
  Speaker 3: Betty and that is fabulous she is so annoying And
• 53:54
  Speaker 3: she tells me that I did things wrong, that I'm awful,
• 53:57
  Speaker 3: that whatever.
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: We just need to shut her up.
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And she's gotten quieter.
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: Good, good.
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: You know, but it doesn't magically go away, the second
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: guessing or that stuff.
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: It doesn't, unfortunately.
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: But it gets better.
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: It does get better. And it gets easier. And it
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: gets easier to have a positive voice. counteract our blowhorn Betty.
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: I love that. What keeps you sober on hard days?
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: I mean, a number of things, but I, I would
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: say working in the recovery space.
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: Working with another addict or alcoholic on a day in
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: day out basis is crucial to my sobriety.
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: And I, you know, it was all about me for
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: the longest time, you know what I mean? So it's
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: like stepping out of self is, you know, it's made
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: all the difference.
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 55:05
  Speaker 2: You know, and I always told myself, I was like,
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: I don't want to work in recovery because I want
• 55:09
  Speaker 2: recovery to be something that I want to do, you know?
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: But I think that was just an excuse I was
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: telling myself.
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah. You know? Yeah. I told myself that for a
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: long time too, that it I wasn't going to. It's
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: like mixing work and fun and work and pleasure.
• 55:32
  Speaker 2: My social life.
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And I told myself I'm not going to mix
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: the two. I'm going to have these two different versions
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: of me. I'm going to have the sober social me
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: and then the work sober me. And they cannot collide.
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: But I think having them collide has been the greatest
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: outside of me getting sober has been the greatest decision
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: that I've ever made. Yeah.
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: I mean, if you keep some of those things separate,
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: which I mean, like the work me doesn't completely show
• 56:05
  Speaker 2: up with my friends. You know what I mean?
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: Like some of them do have to kind of collide
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: in order for me to stay safe.
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: Yes. Yes. Define recovery in three words.
• 56:20
  Speaker 2: Healing, rewarding, and hard. It's not easy.
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: It's not.
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: It's a simple program, they say, but it's not easy.
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: The program itself may be simple.
• 56:35
  Speaker 2: What you have to do, it's a simple concept, but
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: it's hard. It is hard. And it takes hard work
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: and it takes grit and it takes resilience and strength,
• 56:47
  Speaker 2: but everything Every single person is capable of it.
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: And every single person is worthy of this beauty that
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: you can find in recovery. And I like that it
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: wasn't all just super positive words and super uplifting words
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: that you picked to define recovery. Because sometimes I think
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: a lot of times people on the outside see this
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: version of sober people. Right. And they don't see the
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: version of us at the very beginning where.
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: Oh, that gave me chills.
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: Where we were struggling and where we were.
• 57:30
  Speaker 2: I was.
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: Boxing everybody and I tell people that now and they're like,
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: I can't vision.
• 57:36
  Speaker 2: I can't picture that. Yeah, for sure. I mean, it's
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: not all rainbows and sunshine like you said earlier. There's
• 57:46
  Speaker 2: hard days, there's bad days, there's... I mean, don't get
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: me wrong. There's days when there is a couple weeks
• 57:54
  Speaker 2: ago and I was literally thinking, I was like, I
• 57:58
  Speaker 2: can go out for a drink. I could do that.
• 58:01
  Speaker 2: I'm good now. Would it completely have set me back
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: and led me down a terrible path? Yes, it would have.
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: But those thoughts don't immediately go away. They don't subside.
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: But if you just do it for one more day. Yeah.
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: Call your sponsor, which I said I was annoyed no hearings.
• 58:22
  Speaker 2: You know, reach out.
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: Just, you know, yeah.
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: And even in long-term recovery, sometimes I still, like when
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: I graduated from college, my first thought was, let's go
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: have a beer because this is awesome. I just walked
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: across the stage and got a diploma.
• 58:39
  Speaker 2: Yes. You deserve it.
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And then I'm thinking about it and I'm like,
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: wait a minute. that's not a good plan. Let's not
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: do that.
• 58:52
  Speaker 2: The reason I have all these things is because I've
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: been sober and because I've stayed away from beer.
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: So instead of going out and getting a beer, let's
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: go out and get ice cream or a giant slice
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: of chocolate cake. I don't know. Replace it with something
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: that's not going to tear your entire world down.
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: I think that's a huge point to make, too, is
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: like you can still celebrate.
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I still do.
• 59:16
  Speaker 2: I got a keg of root beer the other day for,
• 59:18
  Speaker 2: you know, the sober living so we can have root
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: beer floats, you know. We could still get a keg, but... Um, yeah.
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: And then when I passed my LAC licensing exam, I, again,
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: my first thought was let's go celebrate and have a drink. I,
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: and I didn't cause again, I only had that because
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: I have stayed away from drugs and alcohol. And I said,
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: you know, when it popped up that I passed my exam,
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: I said a naughty word and got myself in trouble
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: with the person that was monitoring my test and But
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: I stayed sober and I still celebrated. I cried. I laughed.
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: I felt this huge weight of relief that was lifted
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: off of me because.
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: I did that. Well, and I think what's different about
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 2: like those when I get those thoughts today, it's not
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 2: like immediately like shut down, but it's more so like
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 2: I don't even want that. Yeah. I think about the
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 2: long term. I don't want to wake up feeling hungover.
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: I don't want to, you know, then I'll miss work
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 2: and then this will happen. You know, and yeah, consequences
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: are going to happen. But like, I genuinely don't want to.
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 2: You know, it's a thought that comes in, but I
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: don't have to identify with that thought.
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: Right. And that thought doesn't immediately have to turn into
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: action anymore.
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: No.
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: And it can be there. And then it can be
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: something that you kind of laugh about later. Like, oh, yeah,
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: that was really kind of weird, but it happened.
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: Silly you know.
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: What gives you hope today.
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: Um I think just if I can do as much
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 2: as I've done in eight months like and I got
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 2: the rest of my life ahead of me like I'm
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: just I'm so excited for it you're gonna move mountains
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 2: I I don't know about that um yeah it's it's
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 2: such a, it's such a good feeling. Yeah. And it's,
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 2: it's crazy that like I have hope for myself because
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 2: eight months ago I was sitting in the most hopeless
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 2: place connected to a machine that was keeping me alive. Yeah.
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 2: You know, that so much can happen and.
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah. What would you tell the version of yourself who
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: thought they'd never make it out?
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 2: Stop being so hard on yourself.
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 1: You deserve that grace.
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And everyone deserves that grace. Why are we so
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 2: willing to give, you know, everyone else in this world
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 2: grace and a chance? But the moment it's for our
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 2: own selves, nope.
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 3: You know?
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 1: Mm-hmm. then it's a hard no and absolutely not.
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Give yourself that grace, no matter what it's for.
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: You deserve the same grace that you give everybody else.
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 1: And that's a hard lesson, I think, for everybody to learn,
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 1: not just alcoholics and addicts that are in active addiction
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: or in recovery. I think that's a human thing to learn.
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure.
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 1: Um, if someone listening is one day sober, what do
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: you want them to know?
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 2: That it's possible.
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: You know, that everything that you want is tangible. Everything
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 2: that you lost can get be got back, you know?
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 2: Um, maybe not the relationship, you know, you ruin, but
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 2: you know, they're, What matters, you'll get back. Yeah. Eventually. Right.
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: You know. Well, thank you, Tyler.
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: This was, even being on the interview kind of side
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: of it, I always learn so much from doing these interviews.
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: And I can't tell you how much I appreciate you coming.
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 2: On and doing this with me. Yeah, it's an honor.
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: You're welcome. Thank you.