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Monday Mini: Hyper Independence · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Anny and Samantha and welcome to.
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: Stuff I never told your production of iHeartRadio.
• 0:18
  Speaker 3: And welcome to another Monday Mini where I'm going to
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  Speaker 3: talk about how TikTok has attacked me.
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  Speaker 1: Okay again ran TikTok No.
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  Speaker 3: So there was a video not too long ago where
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  Speaker 3: they were talking about how some and they were specifically
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  Speaker 3: talking about women in relationships cannot function in relationships or
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  Speaker 3: art can't do healthy relationships because of hyper independence. And
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  Speaker 3: it is exactly what you think it is. It is
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  Speaker 3: when an individual is extremely self reliant and a voice
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  Speaker 3: going to other people for support or help. And just
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  Speaker 3: for this Monday Minny, just so you know, I am
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  Speaker 3: taking a chunk of our information from two articles, ones
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  Speaker 3: from Sandstone's Care dot com and the other one is
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  Speaker 3: brainsmagazine dot com Brains with a z oh yeah magazine
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  Speaker 3: dot com, where we talk about what hyperindependence is and
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  Speaker 3: they talk about what that looks like in relationships and
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  Speaker 3: what that looks like with trauma, because you know, we
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  Speaker 3: love talking about trauma.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what we talk about.
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  Speaker 3: In that Sandstone article, it says hyperindependence in a woman
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  Speaker 3: is where she cannot or will not accept help preferring
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  Speaker 3: to do it all herself and typically creates a strong,
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  Speaker 3: superhuman persona. I know you know what we're talking about people.
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  Speaker 3: I know you know because again I felt attacked.
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  Speaker 1: I know you do too.
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  Speaker 3: Hyperindependence is often a childhood trauma response, though societal messaging
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  Speaker 3: and conditioning are also worthy culprits, so it may not
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  Speaker 3: necessarily completely trauma. We're talking about neglect, we're talking about abuse.
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  Speaker 3: Obviously extreme neglect is high key in this too, but
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  Speaker 3: also just societal messaging and conditioning. So we know, as women,
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  Speaker 3: we are told that we need to be responsible or caretakers,
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  Speaker 3: and we get that at a very young age. So
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  Speaker 3: even if you think you had the normalism of the
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  Speaker 3: relationships and normalist of childhood experiences being handed at baby
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  Speaker 3: doll or being handed cookware and such, couldn't imply that
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  Speaker 3: you were supposed to care for other people. So you
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  Speaker 3: should care for only yourself, not necessarily need help. You've
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  Speaker 3: got to teach yourself right right. Of course, It continues
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: stemming from situations that led her to believe she could
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  Speaker 3: only rely on herself to meet her knees or get
• 2:41
  Speaker 3: things done. Somewhere along the way, she found trusting in
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  Speaker 3: others too difficult or too painful. Over time, this belief
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  Speaker 3: leads to her needing greater control over her outcomes and
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  Speaker 3: external circumstances. So I must say type a people here
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  Speaker 3: when we talk about the need to make anything perfect
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  Speaker 3: or look perfect, or do it right the first time,
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  Speaker 3: no mistakes whatsoever, because if you make a mistake, it
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  Speaker 3: shows that you're a lesser person. Again, this is me
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  Speaker 3: calling myself out as well, because I'm one of those
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  Speaker 3: like if I think I'm not going to be good
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  Speaker 3: at it, I will never do it. You will not
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  Speaker 3: get me to do it. I will sit there and
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  Speaker 3: stare at you look a like a like I'm sleeping
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  Speaker 3: like a zombie, because I'll be like, nah nah, if
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  Speaker 3: I don't look good, I'm not doing it.
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  Speaker 1: I think it's very obvious.
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  Speaker 3: That sometimes when we when we're telling our kids to
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  Speaker 3: shake it off, like there's a balance in these things.
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  Speaker 3: But if you're overly dependent on your child, and when
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  Speaker 3: we talked about with parentified kids, this is going to
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  Speaker 3: be what is led the hyperindependence.
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  Speaker 1: And again but not great, not great.
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  Speaker 3: So here are some of the common signs of high
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  Speaker 3: for independence, which include mistrusted others, perfectionism, avoiding dependence on others,
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  Speaker 3: little to no close relationships, not wanting to ask for help,
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  Speaker 3: anxiety and depression, taking on too many responsibilities, stress and burnout,
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  Speaker 3: and difficulties in relationships.
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  Speaker 1: How are we doing? Anny? What are you saying? I'm
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  Speaker 1: taking it for both of us. I'm just saying it
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  Speaker 1: for both of us.
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  Speaker 3: I've been reading this one, so I'm like, you haven't,
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  Speaker 3: so I'm checking in with you.
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  Speaker 1: Thank you.
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  Speaker 2: This is my first hearing about this, and I yeah,
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  Speaker 2: I'm a little like. Also, interestingly, we did kind of
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  Speaker 2: talk about this. We didn't use this terminology, but in
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  Speaker 2: our last Sex and the City with Maya, with Miranda
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  Speaker 2: being so determined to not like.
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  Speaker 1: Need any help.
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  Speaker 2: So I think that's an interesting part of it too,
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  Speaker 2: because I discussed in their part of my mis trust
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  Speaker 2: in relationships is with guys, is that if I tell
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  Speaker 2: you I just want to be friends, you're not taking
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  Speaker 2: me seriously. And so if I do trust you to
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  Speaker 2: do a thing, then it's going to be like, but
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  Speaker 2: I did this thing for you, right, which I thought
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  Speaker 2: was a friend thing, and now I'm finding out you
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  Speaker 2: did not think so.
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  Speaker 1: Whoops.
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  Speaker 3: Yes, And by the way, so we're going to talk
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  Speaker 3: what happens in relationships. But yes, so if we see
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  Speaker 3: it as a hyperindependence as a form of a trauma response,
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  Speaker 3: here's what they say. Individuals who have experienced trauma may
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  Speaker 3: have had people in their life that emotionally or physically
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  Speaker 3: abuse them, didn't meet their emotional needs, risk their safety,
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  Speaker 3: or were unreliable or absent. These things can cause a
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  Speaker 3: person to depend on themselves to survive and make them
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  Speaker 3: feel that they cannot trust or rely on anyone else.
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  Speaker 3: So I've talked about reactive attachment disorder. This could be
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  Speaker 3: a key point in people being hyper independent as well.
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  Speaker 3: Sometimes it goes the other way, it gets hyper codependent,
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  Speaker 3: and we're not talking about that yet.
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  Speaker 1: That might be a follow up Monday many I don't know. Now.
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  Speaker 3: I will say that this is not a formal diagnosis,
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  Speaker 3: and again it's considered more of a trauma or a
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  Speaker 3: stress response. So so you know, it can stem from
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  Speaker 3: PTSD when a person goes through traumatic experience and then
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  Speaker 3: learns or feels that they cannot trust others.
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  Speaker 1: Like we said before, and.
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  Speaker 3: This is the one that's calling me out, Individuals with
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  Speaker 3: hyper independence may have a fear of abandonment, often because
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  Speaker 3: someone in the past was absent or abandoned them, or
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  Speaker 3: several people's constantly where I was just handed it around
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  Speaker 3: and shipped to a different country. Anyway, because of this,
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  Speaker 3: they might avoid building close relationships with others in order
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  Speaker 3: to minimize or prevent the chances of that person abandoning them.
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  Speaker 3: It could be the very like match, I'm gonna leave first,
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  Speaker 3: so you don't leave me right because hell NOA And
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  Speaker 3: some of the symptoms that happen with this hyperindependence trauma
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  Speaker 3: is feeling shame if they have to ask someone for help.
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  Speaker 3: Have you ever had that moment where you're like raising
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  Speaker 3: my hand it's for a class, for anything. My heart
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  Speaker 3: would race and I would have to like think the
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  Speaker 3: sentence out four times before I.
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  Speaker 1: Evend even think about asking that question. Do you have?
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  Speaker 3: This also isolation, depression of feeling unworthy or undeserving of support, anxiety,
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  Speaker 3: thoughts of self harm, and substance abuse.
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  Speaker 1: And again this is of.
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  Speaker 3: Course a little more in depth in that you haven't
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  Speaker 3: gotten treatment, you haven't gotten any help, any therapy rather,
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  Speaker 3: And I find that interesting because yes, this is something
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  Speaker 3: that a lot of women have to the point that
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  Speaker 3: they would much rather I think that's this whole double conversation,
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  Speaker 3: like they would much rather be alone because they're tired
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  Speaker 3: of being disappointed because they have been taught that eventually
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  Speaker 3: you will be disappointed.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And I do think there is a a
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  Speaker 2: lot of conditioning around asking for help with women of
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  Speaker 2: it being It's interesting because there's almost two sides of
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  Speaker 2: the coin, right. There's the feminist part where we're like
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  Speaker 2: I don't need anybody, which is not healthy, but we've
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  Speaker 2: had to learn to do that. But then there's the
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  Speaker 2: other side where it's like you don't want to be
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  Speaker 2: a quote nag, like you don't want to bother people,
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  Speaker 2: so it's almost like you can't win. Yeah, And I
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  Speaker 2: do think a lot of people, a lot of women,
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  Speaker 2: for that reason those reasons, have taken it on themselves.
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  Speaker 2: And I know I've done this to be that like
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  Speaker 2: I'm not going to bother anybody, but also I don't
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  Speaker 2: need anybody. It's a strange straddling of yeah, I can
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  Speaker 2: do this on my own, right, but also I don't
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  Speaker 2: want to ask for help because you might get mad
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  Speaker 2: at me.
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  Speaker 1: Right, right, right.
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  Speaker 3: And I think it's interesting because they talk about what
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  Speaker 3: this looks like in relationships. So again, this is from
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  Speaker 3: the Brains article and they say in relationships, the impact
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  Speaker 3: on intimate relationships is that hyperindependent women don't allow their
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  Speaker 3: partner to help because it feels unsafe and equates to
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  Speaker 3: them a lack of control. She's so used to being
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  Speaker 3: a strong, independent woman and with anything that underminds her
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  Speaker 3: belief in herself is often and vehementally rejected. The irony
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  Speaker 3: is many hyper independent women are craving for someone, anyone
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  Speaker 3: to come and help, rescue or support them, if you
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  Speaker 3: can openly admit that. So I hate the term rescue.
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  Speaker 1: I hate. I hate it with all my might.
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  Speaker 3: And again this is as you were talking about in
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  Speaker 3: that Sex in the City episode, She's like, no, no,
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  Speaker 3: no rescue.
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  Speaker 1: She literally says no rescue. Ye in that level.
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  Speaker 3: And I am this similar way. I will say, since
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  Speaker 3: being in this relationship where I've finally gotten comfortable and
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  Speaker 3: I know that they are going to be around, and
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  Speaker 3: I've been with them for more than five years, it
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  Speaker 3: took a long time for me to be like, oh,
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  Speaker 3: it's kind of you're gonna give me my coffee, okay?
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  Speaker 3: Because I often like, and I still do, like, it's
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  Speaker 3: kind of funny. I'm the one who'll make it every morning.
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  Speaker 3: I'm the one that still cooks a lot more dinner.
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  Speaker 3: I've taken it on myself more so than that has
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  Speaker 3: been an expectation again, because this is that need to
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  Speaker 3: be independent, but show you that you need me more
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  Speaker 3: than I need you.
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  Speaker 2: Right, yeah, yeah, I did that too. I don't feel
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  Speaker 2: great in my case. I don't feel great about it
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  Speaker 2: looking bad because I was definitely being like I've been
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  Speaker 2: fine without you.
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  Speaker 1: I don't know what you do without me.
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  Speaker 3: But a point of pride for like for me as
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  Speaker 3: well that I'm like to understand this is a choice
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  Speaker 3: and I'll be good without it. But at the same time,
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  Speaker 3: I really do appreciate it, and when I receive it,
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  Speaker 3: I'm like, what is this?
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  Speaker 1: What is this?
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  Speaker 3: Oh me, like like that's kind of that moment.
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  Speaker 1: Uh yeah.
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  Speaker 3: And that article goes on to say the truth you
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  Speaker 3: are not the burden that you think you are. Another
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  Speaker 3: truth you need to let your partner support you. And
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: that's the conversation against support, support and compromise. That's the
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  Speaker 3: biggest point that I think we sometimes forget. And this
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  Speaker 3: is where the anti feminists jump in and be like, see.
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  Speaker 1: Look look at you.
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  Speaker 3: You can't you don't need a man and you don't
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  Speaker 3: need these things.
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  Speaker 1: And eventually I'm like, yeah.
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  Speaker 3: But we also like them. Like, it's not because we're
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: not saying to be a feminist you have to not
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  Speaker 3: have these things, right, we're saying that it's hard to
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  Speaker 3: find people who can be these things.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, that whole idea is pretty pretty ridiculous because again,
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  Speaker 2: it should be an equal partnership, equal support. Right, it's
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  Speaker 2: not the rescue as you were saying, like the guy
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  Speaker 2: rescuing you are all of these other sexist societal expectations
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  Speaker 2: that are at play, whether we want them to be
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  Speaker 2: or not, because that's this is where we were raised. Right,
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  Speaker 2: So yeah, it's ridiculous to me when people are like, ah,
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  Speaker 2: you like having a partner, Wow.
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  Speaker 3: A relationship you want to Like, there's this conversation and
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  Speaker 3: I don't know how we've lost it again.
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  Speaker 1: I don't know why.
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  Speaker 3: Maybe it's because that narrative keeps popping back up of
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  Speaker 3: like if you don't if you cook, if you are
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  Speaker 3: staying at home mom, if you choose to do these things,
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  Speaker 3: you're not a feminist.
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  Speaker 1: That's the conversation. Again.
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  Speaker 3: We want to throw it back to the original, like
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  Speaker 3: when we were talking about women wanting to be able
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  Speaker 3: to get jobs and these things, there were many women
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  Speaker 3: who were already having jobs and they would love to
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  Speaker 3: have the option of being able to be the stay
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  Speaker 3: at home mom or any of those things, and they
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  Speaker 3: are not being able to have the equitability to do so.
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  Speaker 3: Like this is that conversation. Equality and equitability is the forethought,
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  Speaker 3: not what you can and cannot do. That's such a
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  Speaker 3: trivial ideal. And with that, having a supportive partner that
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: you can lean on is a beautiful, beautiful, beautiful thing.
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  Speaker 3: Not the way they take all of this, like it's
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  Speaker 3: not all this one sided conversation.
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  Speaker 1: Is it hard? Yes?
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  Speaker 3: Is it still hard for those who we would loudly say,
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  Speaker 3: I am a feminist, but I take care of the
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  Speaker 3: household stuff a little too much because I just do.
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  Speaker 3: Again in this that level of like I can do
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  Speaker 3: by myself. I don't need you, but I do need you,
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  Speaker 3: but I do Like it doesn't necessarily have to be
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  Speaker 3: the need you, it's the want you. In this conversation again,
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  Speaker 3: and I like that they say the truth, You're not
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  Speaker 3: the burden that you think you are, And more often
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  Speaker 3: than not, that is the fear that drives us to
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  Speaker 3: go overboard for me specifically, and I've said that to
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  Speaker 3: many people. I've had to explain if you don't invite
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: me to something, I don't show up because I assume
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: you don't want me there, And oftentimes it's more of
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: the oh, yeah, I.
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: Just automatically thought you knew you were invited type of conversation.
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  Speaker 3: You're better explicitly invite me, because if not, I'm gonna
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: say they don't want me or they don't and then
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  Speaker 3: that job, since doude they don't like me, I'm annoying
• 14:53
  Speaker 3: that fire again.
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  Speaker 1: The spiral that happens.
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  Speaker 3: And then that same article says learning to ask for
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: help and allowing your partner to do things for you
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: is vital to unwinding the belief you created all.
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: Those years ago.
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: As you you're ultimately learning to trust again. And yeah,
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  Speaker 3: that's that big conversation. Trust that this person will be
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: there for you, Trust that you are worthy of support,
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: and that it does not take anything away from you.
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  Speaker 1: Is that balance? If I let this person do this
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  Speaker 1: for me, does it make me look weak? Yeah? Or
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: is that allowing me to be loved? Yeah?
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  Speaker 2: And I think also to going back to a recent episode,
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: a recent happy hour you did. It can manifest in
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: friendships as well, and sometimes in the in my case
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: in the like not asking for help, some of my
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: friends are actually kind of hurt by that, like, you know,
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: like so it it is a balance, like if I
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: don't truly wanted any help, and I'm good, that's one thing.
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  Speaker 2: But if I'm not asking for it because I don't
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: want to bother you, and then the friend finds out,
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: it's like, well I could have helped, that would have
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: been fine, right, And then they're they're feeling kind of like, well,
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: they feel kind of bad because I don't trust them
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: and I have to ask. So there's like no real
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: easy answer in that. But just I it is a
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: balance of asking yourself. You know, it would be nice
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  Speaker 2: to have help. There are people that would be happy
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: to help me. Yes, Annie, it's yes, Samantha. Also, well,
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: thank you for coming down this road with me. And
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: eventually I think we are going to come back to
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: the hyper codependence, which is the opposite reaction. But I again,
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: like I said, I saw this on TikTok and I
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: was like, well, I got called that.
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  Speaker 1: I'm gonna call everybody else out too, as as you should.
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: That's silent goes well, y'all with me. Thanks for doing that.
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: Well, listeners. If you have any thoughts on this, please
• 17:12
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• 17:15
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• 17:31
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