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Balancing Vision, Execution, and Trust in Operations Management with Roger Noyes · Speak In Flow

• 0:02
  Melinda Lee: Welcome. Dear listeners, to the speak and flow podcast where we dive into unique experiences to help you and your team achieve maximum potential and flow. Today is a wonderful day, because I have an amazing leader, Roger Noyes. He's transitioning out of catch and release as the Vp. Of operations, and he is here to share the wealth of experience with us to you. And so, Hi, Roger, I'm glad you're here.
• 0:32
  Roger Noyes: Hey, Melinda, thanks for having me excited to be here.
• 0:34
  Melinda Lee: Thank you. Yes, let's dive in. What is what makes you passionate about operations.
• 0:42
  Roger Noyes: Well, I would say right off the bat, it's about solving a problem and helping people right helping an organization in an organization helping teams get better, more efficient operational efficiency if you will, even though that's a little bit cliche but effectively.
• 1:03
  Roger Noyes: I think
• 1:05
  Roger Noyes: the solving of the problem right and
• 1:09
  Roger Noyes: helping
• 1:11
  Roger Noyes: people get together right and
• 1:15
  Roger Noyes: become a strong unit and a team, especially in the operations roles. Because in operations you really
• 1:23
  Roger Noyes: operation is one of those things you want to set and forget right. You just wanna make sure that it works.
• 1:29
  Melinda Lee: Yes.
• 1:29
  Roger Noyes: And the last thing you know the CEO wants is like, Hey, how come this thing's not working. How come this tool is not working. How come we don't have this thing done? How come the professional services team isn't isn't executing right? You just let you want to make sure that the team can do their best work right? And that's what I help. That's what I hope I'm helping with my past teams, and potentially in the future right to really help them become the best that they can be in their roles.
• 1:58
  Melinda Lee: Exactly. And I mean, the thing is, when I think about operations, I think about tools, I think about systems, I think about processes. And then a lot of what you, the 1st about helping the people, become more efficient. It's about even though it is tools and processes. But well, it comes down to? How does it help the people.
• 2:14
  Roger Noyes: Yeah. And I think my perspective is, I'm I'm a servant leader, right? I don't.
• 2:21
  Melinda Lee: I love it.
• 2:21
  Roger Noyes: I don't kind of volunteer people what to do. I'm much more like, hey, what are our problems? What can we do? How can I help you?
• 2:30
  Melinda Lee: Yeah, right?
• 2:32
  Melinda Lee: and and in being in operations, you have so many opportunities to support and help people to help themselves and in operations. The the different teams tell us about all the different teams that you worked with and the teams that traditionally don't work well with each other. What is happening there? Can you paint the landscape
• 2:54
  Melinda Lee: of that.
• 2:55
  Roger Noyes: Well.
• 2:56
  Roger Noyes: I think, could be depending on the size of the organization. It could really be a lot of different things, right? I mean effectively. You could be working with
• 3:07
  Roger Noyes: sales and operations. You can be working with revenue and accounting and operations. You can be working with product and operations. Right.
• 3:14
  Roger Noyes: What are the what are the tools and solutions they need? Right? And everybody kind of has an angle right there. They're always like, well, I need this thing for sales, because if I can't get this thing that I'm not going to be able to hit my quota so on and so forth, right or Hey, I need this thing for product to enable us to be able to understand what our customers need right? So we can make the best product we can. So sales can sell. And right, it's kind of like this cycle. And you're trying to kind of you're trying to piece it all together in a lot of ways.
• 3:43
  Melinda Lee: Right.
• 3:45
  Roger Noyes: And and I think
• 3:47
  Roger Noyes: I think trying to be as diplomatic as possible. When you do run into issues like I have no problem, and I encourage disagreement. And like, Hey, if you have a position, everyone effectively should have a voice on the team, whether they're, you know, a senior manager or an individual contributor.
• 4:07
  Roger Noyes: And that might not be. It might not be like it's not decision, this decision by committee, but or anything. But I think it's important to say like, Hey, if I have a voice and I can share that right.
• 4:22
  Roger Noyes: I I do think you kind of have to navigate the the folks that have really strong personalities.
• 4:27
  Melinda Lee: Right.
• 4:27
  Roger Noyes: It's like, Okay, well, let's unpack. Why.
• 4:32
  Roger Noyes: you feel so strongly about that. And if it and if it aligns with the mission and the goals of the organization or the team or the initiative that you're working on. Right? Then it really, it's like, okay, that makes a lot of sense that gets attention right. And at the end of the day, if you have conflict right.
• 4:54
  Roger Noyes: you're gonna have to
• 4:56
  Roger Noyes: figure out how to navigate it, depending on the circumstance and the situation.
• 5:00
  Roger Noyes: Sometimes you have to take it offline. Sometimes you can address it, depending on the subgroup that you're working with. Right? So.
• 5:08
  Roger Noyes: But again, at the end of the day. It's
• 5:11
  Roger Noyes: you have to kind of let all of those everybody comes in right to to meetings, or or whatever it might be with.
• 5:20
  Roger Noyes: They may have baggage, or they might have had a bad day, or whatever. So, being empathetic to that and saying like, Okay, it's clear so and so that you know you're really.
• 5:30
  Roger Noyes: you know something triggers you or you're really passionate, or whatever let's kind of get to the root like, what is the root of the problem we're trying to solve. And and go from there.
• 5:43
  Roger Noyes: And did you.
• 5:43
  Melinda Lee: Well do, companies. Have you been with companies that don't do that very well.
• 5:48
  Melinda Lee: And what was happening.
• 5:50
  Roger Noyes: Well, I mean, it's easy to get into silos.
• 5:54
  Melinda Lee: Right? Okay, okay, yeah, so yeah.
• 5:56
  Roger Noyes: And.
• 5:57
  Melinda Lee: People end up being silos.
• 5:59
  Roger Noyes: Yeah. And I mean, I've I've definitely seen that right. And it's like, Well, who has the influence? Who has the ear of the decision maker.
• 6:07
  Melinda Lee: Right right right.
• 6:08
  Roger Noyes: And I think
• 6:10
  Roger Noyes: the unfortunate part is.
• 6:13
  Roger Noyes: if people feel threatened by a change, we know nobody likes, nobody likes change. They're like way I was doing thing. I love the way that thing was working out. And and now you're kind of making the change right. And how do you help?
• 6:28
  Roger Noyes: How do you help pitch the vision? How do you help? Say, Hey, there's a reason we're doing this. We're not doing it to make your life difficult.
• 6:36
  Roger Noyes: Right, we might need to take 2 steps back to go 3 steps forward. So perfect example, about
• 6:44
  Roger Noyes: 2 years ago.
• 6:46
  Roger Noyes: give or take for catch and release. We were actually re developing our product
• 6:52
  Roger Noyes: right? So we had a product we were working on for a few years. And then we realized we had to kind of basically
• 6:58
  Roger Noyes: restart. Right? You had a new tech team the whole 9 yards.
• 7:03
  Roger Noyes: So everybody was used to using that old platform right.
• 7:07
  Roger Noyes: On the on the team right? All the kind of professional services folks
• 7:12
  Roger Noyes: right? And we knew that it was going to be really painful
• 7:18
  Roger Noyes: right when that new product came out and.
• 7:21
  Melinda Lee: Driving.
• 7:21
  Roger Noyes: It was painful because it didn't have the bells and whistles right? It was kind of like a quote unquote Beta, if you will, or kind of a early release, right? And then we had to. We had to rip the Bandaid off
• 7:35
  Roger Noyes: right? We like literally had to say, Hey, guys, this is gonna suck right?
• 7:40
  Melinda Lee: Yes.
• 7:41
  Roger Noyes: And we're pulling it off. And this thing is going away. And now you gotta work in this other thing. And
• 7:47
  Roger Noyes: and yeah, it was.
• 7:49
  Roger Noyes: There was no illusions right? It was more work for the team, less efficient, like the whole 9 yards. But then 2 years on right. We are now flipping the script right? If we would have stayed with that original platform, or whatever. Yeah, we'd still be doing that same stuff.
• 8:07
  Roger Noyes: Now, now say, we've we were like, oh, we're in a big deficit at the beginning. Now, we're 3 or 4 steps ahead in our efficiency.
• 8:17
  Roger Noyes: right? And we're.
• 8:19
  Roger Noyes: Meeting the goals that we laid out and.
• 8:21
  Melinda Lee: Right.
• 8:23
  Roger Noyes: And really kind of
• 8:25
  Roger Noyes: being the cheerleader to say, like, Hey guys, this is gonna get better, or Hey, what is it that you need like, what's your biggest pain point? And we're gonna talk to product and engineering right? And we're gonna make sure that that big pain point, because that one big pain point might knock out like 10 things.
• 8:41
  Melinda Lee: Right, right.
• 8:42
  Roger Noyes: You can only just do this one thing for us, right? Right? And
• 8:46
  Roger Noyes: so that's an example of
• 8:49
  Roger Noyes: of yeah, I mean, it's
• 8:51
  Roger Noyes: it can be challenging right? And there was a lot. There was a lot of chaos right and.
• 8:56
  Melinda Lee: Right.
• 8:57
  Roger Noyes: It was hard
• 8:58
  Roger Noyes: mean. There's no doubt about it. But did we learn a lot
• 9:02
  Roger Noyes: like a lot? A lot? Yes.
• 9:04
  Melinda Lee: What was the most challenging part, and you mentioned that people didn't want to change. You have to rip the Bandaid. I I enjoy that you said it was like there was no illusion. It was transparent. We're gonna it's gonna be hard. And
• 9:18
  Melinda Lee: and so that communication is authentic. And so I think people, even though.
• 9:23
  Roger Noyes: That's fine!
• 9:23
  Melinda Lee: Hard. At least it's something that they can feel more clarity on, if that their clarity that is going to be hard.
• 9:30
  Roger Noyes: I think.
• 9:30
  Melinda Lee: What? What are the right? Yeah.
• 9:32
  Roger Noyes: Yeah, I think the hardest part is
• 9:37
  Roger Noyes: is
• 9:40
  Roger Noyes: really
• 9:43
  Roger Noyes: what I alluded to before is laying out the vision is, and being able to see the forest through the trees. Right. Can you see 3 or 4 steps ahead, right.
• 9:52
  Roger Noyes: A lot of people can't
• 9:54
  Roger Noyes: right. And just like their day to day. It's like, Hey, this is what it's affecting me now today, like.
• 10:00
  Roger Noyes: and hey guys, this is why we're doing this
• 10:03
  Roger Noyes: right. And this is. And for some some group
• 10:07
  Roger Noyes: in the organization, it wasn't as painful in another part. It was like really painful right?
• 10:15
  Roger Noyes: And
• 10:17
  Roger Noyes: that, I think, is just. It's a necessity. Could we
• 10:22
  Roger Noyes: in hindsight right? Hindsight's 2020? Could we have done better could we have? Could we have communicated differently? Right?
• 10:32
  Roger Noyes: In various
• 10:33
  Roger Noyes: groups? Was there?
• 10:35
  Roger Noyes: Is there going to be that type of
• 10:38
  Roger Noyes: kind of silo? Sometimes it's it's required. It's like, no, no, I actually have to sit over here without you bothering me.
• 10:47
  Roger Noyes: Right or like invest or basically throwing like, what would be great to do this and this and this and this and this right
• 10:54
  Roger Noyes: cause I gotta get the work done and I gotta get.
• 10:56
  Roger Noyes: Stage. I gotta get this to square one
• 10:59
  Roger Noyes: right? And then we can deal with all that other stuff right.
• 11:02
  Roger Noyes: And whistles right? All the nice, all the nice stuff.
• 11:06
  Roger Noyes: So
• 11:07
  Roger Noyes: hope that kind of helps like that. I mean, it's and I. And I think this is in the start up world, right in the corporate world, right? It's a little harder. It's a little things move slower, right, as we all are aware. Right.
• 11:24
  Melinda Lee: I think, but then still, things are changing rapid. I guess it depends on what industry I think, too. Yeah.
• 11:30
  Melinda Lee: Yeah.
• 11:31
  Roger Noyes: I I do think it's it's like, just sometimes those wheels are churning and having been on the corporate side and saying like, Hey, we want to get XY and Z done right. Oftentimes we were in a commercial product
• 11:44
  Roger Noyes: business and leapfrog right? We made toys
• 11:48
  Roger Noyes: right? And one of the cool things about that experience for me is they ran the whole soup to nuts right.
• 11:55
  Melinda Lee: A bit.
• 11:56
  Roger Noyes: Didn't contract out anything. They spun their own chips. There.
• 12:00
  Melinda Lee: Wow!
• 12:01
  Roger Noyes: Right. They developed all the hardware right? We did all. I was in the content space right? I was helping develop the content for those devices right? And
• 12:11
  Roger Noyes: there was a forcing function. Right? You're like, Hey, this is going. This is gonna 1st onboard ship and has to be in stores by X date.
• 12:20
  Roger Noyes: And so
• 12:22
  Roger Noyes: a lot of that was then.
• 12:24
  Roger Noyes: okay, now, we gotta
• 12:26
  Roger Noyes: we have to get it all done by X. Otherwise it's gonna miss the date and everybody. Then it's just a domino effect, right? And you don't want that. You don't want to be the person holding folks up
• 12:36
  Roger Noyes: right? So
• 12:38
  Roger Noyes: so sometimes those are good, those forcing functions right?
• 12:42
  Melinda Lee: Right? Right? Right?
• 12:43
  Melinda Lee: Yeah. Cause it. Well, as long as the team is a relatively functional team, you can get things done.
• 12:52
  Roger Noyes: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
• 12:53
  Melinda Lee: I mean, yeah, I think.
• 12:55
  Roger Noyes: I think one of the things that
• 12:57
  Roger Noyes: in that experience at leapfrog
• 13:01
  Roger Noyes: working with global teams around the world. Right? We would.
• 13:06
  Roger Noyes: I, what I would find as a quote unquote buyer, I would go evaluate teams. I would hire teams right, and they would do the work for us in a sec if you will second party right? Because they were developing content for us.
• 13:19
  Roger Noyes: And
• 13:20
  Roger Noyes: every group was different, right about.
• 13:24
  Roger Noyes: What was important to them. What were they good at? What were they? Maybe not so good at?
• 13:28
  Roger Noyes: Is, did you really have to dial in on the communication. Would I have to go to the producer and say, Okay, with this, this is a new team, right? What I'm seeing is, you want to make sure that you do. XY, and Z. This is what they're blindside. This is where their opportunities are.
• 13:43
  Roger Noyes: Make sure that you're checking in with them
• 13:46
  Roger Noyes: once a day. Make sure you're checking in with them 3 times a week, right? And then, on the other hand, we had folks that
• 13:53
  Roger Noyes: worked on 2530 projects for us. And it's like, okay.
• 13:59
  Roger Noyes: you know, the deal with these guys. Right? Make sure that you know on the design side that you're buttoned up, because if you have to change it at the end of the day, it's gonna create all the swirl right where.
• 14:13
  Roger Noyes: This other group, right? Might be like.
• 14:16
  Roger Noyes: change it until the end. And we're still gonna knock it out of the park right?
• 14:20
  Roger Noyes: But they. They would be very persnickety about change, maybe change or fees, or those sorts of things right? Because they weren't quote unquote internal.
• 14:29
  Roger Noyes: So.
• 14:30
  Melinda Lee: Yeah, I mean, I think it's so interesting because you're saying that at 1 point sometimes, if there's an external deadline, it it kind of forces people to keep the eye on the ball. But then, if there is an internal change.
• 14:44
  Melinda Lee: there could be like times where they're resistant and and cause. Then what I'm hearing you say is, it's also like team, depend like each team is different.
• 14:56
  Melinda Lee: And so, taking the time to communicate, understand? Each team, and even each person on the team is so important because
• 15:04
  Melinda Lee: but then I'm like wondering how at what point
• 15:07
  Melinda Lee: you know the team. They're still resistant. At what point if there's no deadline.
• 15:12
  Roger Noyes: Age. Yeah, I mean.
• 15:14
  Melinda Lee: Need to make it.
• 15:14
  Roger Noyes: At a certain point, at a certain point, you're either you're invested in the vision and the goal.
• 15:20
  Melinda Lee: Right? Career, right? So.
• 15:23
  Roger Noyes: It's not like, come by, yeah, until the end of time. And we're all gonna you know.
• 15:26
  Melinda Lee: Right? Right? Right? Right? That's right.
• 15:28
  Roger Noyes: That's not the point, right? And you're going to get if you get enough. It's like, Hey guys, you understand this. And hey, if it's not the right thing, I understand, or.
• 15:38
  Melinda Lee: Yeah.
• 15:38
  Roger Noyes: They're not executing against what they
• 15:42
  Roger Noyes: have said
• 15:44
  Roger Noyes: right? What their, what their own expectations were for their.
• 15:48
  Roger Noyes: Their role and their job and their goals. Right then you do. You need to step in and make a change.
• 15:54
  Melinda Lee: Yeah. And how do you know when to say goodbye to someone? It's time to
• 16:00
  Melinda Lee: part ways.
• 16:01
  Roger Noyes: It becomes
• 16:03
  Roger Noyes: so.
• 16:05
  Roger Noyes: So my philosophy is
• 16:08
  Roger Noyes: is really to to let folks run the show right like, I said, serving leadership like you. Tell me what you need. Right? Obviously, under the umbrella of the larger goal.
• 16:19
  Roger Noyes: So you're setting those expectations. We're writing your goals down right? Is that a is that a weekly? Is that a monthly? Is that a quarterly, whatever it is right. And
• 16:31
  Roger Noyes: are you doing that right? So you gotta walk the walk
• 16:34
  Roger Noyes: right? Say something, you know. Do what you say. Say, what say what you do? Right? And
• 16:44
  Roger Noyes: you get to a point where you're like, okay.
• 16:47
  Roger Noyes: soon as I didn't meet that goal
• 16:49
  Roger Noyes: right, there are some extenuating circumstances.
• 16:53
  Roger Noyes: All right, let's see, let's see next time. Right? So you always want to kind of give an opportunity. But I think it's like
• 17:00
  Roger Noyes: you know. Fool me once! Shame on me, fool! You once fully, once! Shame on
• 17:06
  Roger Noyes: you for me! Twice for me, twice! Shame on me!
• 17:09
  Melinda Lee: See you on.
• 17:09
  Roger Noyes: Right? So it keeps happening. If it keeps happening, you just kind of have an instinct. It's like, Hey, this isn't working out.
• 17:16
  Melinda Lee: Right.
• 17:16
  Roger Noyes: Or effectively. I've been in situations where I've stepped into teams.
• 17:21
  Roger Noyes: and it was very clear.
• 17:23
  Roger Noyes: right from the start. It's like this person is not executing. I'm going to validate my instinct on that.
• 17:32
  Roger Noyes: Right. And then we're gonna.
• 17:33
  Melinda Lee: Yeah, yeah, and then move on. And and do you usually talk to them about it? Or what do you? How do you handle it?
• 17:41
  Roger Noyes: So usually you get to a point where you're again, you're you're putting the onus on
• 17:48
  Roger Noyes: the work.
• 17:49
  Roger Noyes: not the individual.
• 17:51
  Melinda Lee: Right.
• 17:52
  Roger Noyes: Right.
• 17:52
  Melinda Lee: It's never personal.
• 17:53
  Roger Noyes: It's like, Hey, these are the goals. You met the goals. You didn't meet the goals. You said you're going to do this. You didn't do this right right, and then it becomes. It's a really easy exercise at that point.
• 18:05
  Melinda Lee: Right, right.
• 18:06
  Roger Noyes: Black and white. Right? You're like this is working or it's not working. You said this. You didn't, or you said you were doing this. And this weird thing happened. Okay, I get it right. And then, you know, you, you kind of evolved that way right.
• 18:20
  Melinda Lee: Right? Right? And it's more about the project. Yeah, you do.
• 18:25
  Roger Noyes: As well is it? Are they helping the team grow and expand and and
• 18:31
  Roger Noyes: kind of continue to
• 18:33
  Roger Noyes: meet their goals? Or is it like
• 18:36
  Roger Noyes: holding back. It's like, why is it always the
• 18:40
  Roger Noyes: so and so it doesn't want to do XY or Z. And I mean, I think we're speaking in generalities right now.
• 18:47
  Melinda Lee: Yeah, right.
• 18:48
  Roger Noyes: But I think you really have to.
• 18:50
  Roger Noyes: I think the other thing there is like you just move quick, like once you get that instinct. You don't let it fester right.
• 18:56
  Melinda Lee: Yeah.
• 18:57
  Roger Noyes: You basically have to go in and say, we need to make a change.
• 19:01
  Roger Noyes: This is, and this is probably our best path.
• 19:05
  Roger Noyes: and then you execute against it
• 19:06
  Roger Noyes: right? There's just, and that's why it's so, you know. Another cliche. Right? It's like fire, slow fire fast, right? It's.
• 19:15
  Melinda Lee: So true.
• 19:16
  Roger Noyes: It. I mean it really. Is
• 19:19
  Roger Noyes: it really.
• 19:19
  Melinda Lee: Huh!
• 19:20
  Roger Noyes: Right, right, sometimes.
• 19:22
  Melinda Lee: Right control.
• 19:23
  Roger Noyes: I've been in this. I've had the experience, and I've felt the pain
• 19:27
  Roger Noyes: right of like. Let me fill this this spot.
• 19:31
  Melinda Lee: Right.
• 19:32
  Roger Noyes: Okay, we've been talking to folks for 4 weeks and we finally get somebody with it. Amazing. Maybe it's not a hundred percent. But
• 19:39
  Roger Noyes: we know. We know, maybe, where the gaps are, and let's just give it a shot. And then.
• 19:45
  Roger Noyes: 90 days later, you're like, Damn! It! Should have just kept on looking.
• 19:50
  Melinda Lee: Yeah.
• 19:51
  Melinda Lee: Oh.
• 19:53
  Roger Noyes: Yeah.
• 19:53
  Melinda Lee: And and so, having worked with so many different teams and people, what what do you think are the great quality qualities and characteristics of a team leader.
• 20:05
  Roger Noyes: Well, I think.
• 20:12
  Roger Noyes: coming in from from my experience. Right
• 20:16
  Roger Noyes: of both a both
• 20:18
  Roger Noyes: having good leaders above me and having bad leaders above me right.
• 20:24
  Roger Noyes: And trying to be the best leader that that I can be in in my growth.
• 20:29
  Roger Noyes: I think
• 20:31
  Roger Noyes: this
• 20:34
  Roger Noyes: this position of like fear, right and or micromanaging is always.
• 20:40
  Melinda Lee: Yeah.
• 20:41
  Roger Noyes: Huge red flag, right.
• 20:42
  Melinda Lee: Yeah.
• 20:44
  Roger Noyes: I think it was. Was it like.
• 20:49
  Roger Noyes: like, why'd you hire the person?
• 20:51
  Roger Noyes: If you want to make them right?
• 20:54
  Roger Noyes: Basically, if you're micromanaging. You're basically saying.
• 20:57
  Roger Noyes: I don't think you can do the work.
• 20:59
  Melinda Lee: Yeah.
• 21:00
  Roger Noyes: And
• 21:01
  Roger Noyes: to my earlier point about servant leadership. It's
• 21:04
  Roger Noyes: it's like.
• 21:05
  Roger Noyes: no like this is why you're on the team, or this is, you know where we're going to continue to help support you right? It's really about having an open
• 21:16
  Roger Noyes: an open mind always having for me. It's always been like, hey? If I can walk in and be honest about both my successes and failures to to a boss?
• 21:27
  Roger Noyes: Right?
• 21:28
  Roger Noyes: I mean, and they get it.
• 21:29
  Roger Noyes: And they're like, I understand.
• 21:31
  Roger Noyes: you know, maybe you messed up, or maybe it made a wrong decision, and the impacts.
• 21:37
  Roger Noyes: Were material to the business, or whatever.
• 21:40
  Melinda Lee: Yeah.
• 21:41
  Roger Noyes: You kind of have to own it
• 21:43
  Roger Noyes: right, and I think
• 21:45
  Roger Noyes: you have to own it as a leader, too. Right?
• 21:49
  Roger Noyes: Both as an individual and a leader. So I think
• 21:52
  Roger Noyes: really just being open about that. And I.
• 21:57
  Roger Noyes: Right.
• 21:57
  Melinda Lee: And and what do you think is the challenge like when they when they're micromanaging to? They're they're not allowing themselves to be open is what I'm saying. Like they they don't.
• 22:06
  Melinda Lee: It's hard for them to be open because they're they're they're focused on the control, micromanaging, being sure of the.
• 22:15
  Roger Noyes: Yeah.
• 22:15
  Melinda Lee: You know, trying to try to make sure they get the outcome that they want
• 22:19
  Melinda Lee: and like you said, I mean, cause then some of these open more. The managers that allow you to make mistakes.
• 22:27
  Melinda Lee: Yeah, I think they're. It's hard, because if it affects the bottom line.
• 22:33
  Roger Noyes: Yeah, I mean, there's there are certain things like, you kind of have to do right. It's just essential, right? And it's like you, you, what's that minimum bar? Right?
• 22:43
  Melinda Lee: What is that bar? How do I let go of the control? When do I let go? And when do I let them?
• 22:50
  Melinda Lee: Yeah.
• 22:50
  Roger Noyes: Setting that expectation right of.
• 22:53
  Melinda Lee: Right.
• 22:53
  Roger Noyes: Okay, I need this, this. And this done right?
• 22:57
  Melinda Lee: Right.
• 22:57
  Roger Noyes: He's.
• 22:58
  Roger Noyes: and I think the other thing that we haven't touched on. But I but I think is essential, and I always try and let
• 23:08
  Roger Noyes: encourage my teams to think about
• 23:11
  Roger Noyes: especially in the kind of development space or in the professional services world is
• 23:19
  Roger Noyes: you are going to be more successful with your customers and your stakeholders if you can anticipate and see around the corners right? So
• 23:29
  Roger Noyes: what are the contingencies that you are going to put in place? Or what is the what is your?
• 23:35
  Roger Noyes: How are you going to deal with
• 23:37
  Roger Noyes: both the successes
• 23:39
  Roger Noyes: and
• 23:40
  Roger Noyes: the failures.
• 23:42
  Roger Noyes: So, hey, I have a customer that's super upset about something. Right? So how are you going to then
• 23:49
  Roger Noyes: meet them where they are? Understand what those issues are, because, again, to my earlier point, sometimes.
• 23:56
  Roger Noyes: folks, they have all different sort of
• 24:00
  Roger Noyes: they have so many different like. This is what I care about, and.
• 24:04
  Melinda Lee: Yeah.
• 24:04
  Roger Noyes: All this from negotiating contracts with different folks for a decade and a half.
• 24:10
  Roger Noyes: They, like everybody, cares about different things. I go to 10 different
• 24:15
  Roger Noyes: companies and negotiate a master agreement with them, and they will all care about different things.
• 24:21
  Melinda Lee: Yeah.
• 24:22
  Roger Noyes: So.
• 24:22
  Melinda Lee: Interesting.
• 24:23
  Roger Noyes: So how do you? How do you see around that corner and and and prepare yourselves for the contingencies? There's the bad stuff, but there's also the good stuff, Melinda. It's like holy crap, right?
• 24:36
  Roger Noyes: This is a perfect example. Catch a release.
• 24:38
  Roger Noyes: We what we did. There was building a platform to license the Internet.
• 24:44
  Roger Noyes: Pandemic comes
• 24:47
  Roger Noyes: none of the none of the production folks can go out and shoot.
• 24:51
  Roger Noyes: We went from 0 to a hundred in like
• 24:55
  Roger Noyes: overnight. I tell you, over that weekend over that pandemic weekend we were getting calls from people. Can you help us? Can you help us so? Oh, my gosh.
• 25:05
  Roger Noyes: what are we gonna do right? Part of the work there? And the contingency was, there is like, All right, we got a network. Let's get people on board.
• 25:14
  Roger Noyes: Right? Let's let's get them. Let's get them going. So it's not only about like the bad stuff. It's also the good stuff that you have to have contingencies for.
• 25:23
  Melinda Lee: Yeah, right, right.
• 25:24
  Roger Noyes: Billing.
• 25:24
  Melinda Lee: And how much time and thinking and preparing do you suggest that leaders do on this.
• 25:31
  Roger Noyes: Well, I think that.
• 25:32
  Melinda Lee: Done, this.
• 25:32
  Roger Noyes: I didn't think that's primarily our jobs.
• 25:36
  Melinda Lee: Raining.
• 25:37
  Roger Noyes: Of ways as leaders is to
• 25:40
  Roger Noyes: come up with the strategies and say, like, Okay, this is what we're gonna chase.
• 25:45
  Melinda Lee: Right.
• 25:45
  Roger Noyes: As you're.
• 25:46
  Roger Noyes: whether you're you have a monthly or a weekly business review, or a quarterly.
• 25:52
  Melinda Lee: Range, right.
• 25:52
  Roger Noyes: You, you start to look at the results. And you say, Okay, well.
• 25:58
  Roger Noyes: what's good and bad? Right? I think.
• 26:00
  Melinda Lee: Right.
• 26:00
  Roger Noyes: Part of part of the struggle. Right? When you, when you as a
• 26:05
  Roger Noyes: as a leader, is
• 26:07
  Roger Noyes: is
• 26:09
  Roger Noyes: getting data right? So you get data. You get metrics, hey? Are we tracking? Yes or no?
• 26:15
  Roger Noyes: And
• 26:16
  Roger Noyes: part of the growth for me, members of my team. Or there's been some examples of it is like, Yeah, Hey, I'm reporting out.
• 26:25
  Roger Noyes: okay, great. We're behind
• 26:28
  Roger Noyes: more. We're ahead.
• 26:30
  Roger Noyes: Why is.
• 26:30
  Melinda Lee: That.
• 26:31
  Roger Noyes: Right. Do I understand? If I don't understand, then the person on the ground needs to help me understand
• 26:37
  Roger Noyes: right?
• 26:38
  Roger Noyes: What led to the fact that we were 20% down or 50% over right? And then that says, okay, maybe we have to adjust
• 26:48
  Roger Noyes: our forecasting and planning because we obviously put a wrong number down right? And it was because we didn't have the information yet.
• 26:55
  Roger Noyes: right? Or we just didn't do the proper analysis.
• 26:58
  Roger Noyes: Or you know. Maybe there was a little shell game going on that happens often right?
• 27:04
  Melinda Lee: Yeah.
• 27:05
  Roger Noyes: Completely.
• 27:06
  Roger Noyes: So I think there's.
• 27:08
  Roger Noyes: I think it's really important. I mean, that's what we should as leaders should be hyper focused on is saying, like, Yeah, you can execute. Let the team execute.
• 27:17
  Melinda Lee: Right, right.
• 27:17
  Roger Noyes: How do you drive the business forward?
• 27:19
  Melinda Lee: Right. I love that.
• 27:21
  Roger Noyes: Okay.
• 27:21
  Melinda Lee: Love, that.
• 27:22
  Roger Noyes: Through. Yeah, if you have a strong team that can execute, then you can do the work right. And to my previous point about micromanaging. Why would you want to micromanage the teams.
• 27:33
  Melinda Lee: Yeah, so.
• 27:34
  Roger Noyes: Let them do their work. So you can build a business as a leader.
• 27:38
  Melinda Lee: Well, right? And then you can get the data if they're not doing it. Well, then you can get the data quickly and then make adjustments and have them adjust and execute on those adjustments.
• 27:48
  Roger Noyes: Yep, totally totally.
• 27:51
  Melinda Lee: You're the one in charge of the strategy, the vision, the the Conden. You could talk out the contingency plans for the positive and also the risk, but then adjust, have them and execute on those adjustments. I love that.
• 28:05
  Melinda Lee: That's that's
• 28:08
  Melinda Lee: efficient communication. Yeah.
• 28:10
  Melinda Lee: rather than spend your time micromanaging and communicating what they're doing wrong, or how they can fix the little things. Yeah.
• 28:19
  Roger Noyes: I think the other thing here, the other. The other part of this is.
• 28:22
  Roger Noyes: you know, what tools are we using to.
• 28:25
  Melinda Lee: Yeah.
• 28:26
  Roger Noyes: Actually fulfill this right? And you know, being in the operations role, you get a lot of folks coming at you. A lot of salespeople. Hey? I have this great solution. I have this great solution. I have this great solution. Yeah, you know, you sit and you talk with them. And you're like, Wow, that sounds like a great solution.
• 28:41
  Melinda Lee: Johnny.
• 28:42
  Roger Noyes: Right, and I think the reality is.
• 28:49
  Roger Noyes: It's probably there. The solution is probably good for like 10%. Right now, I'm I'm being in general like, I'm kind of doing that you know
• 29:00
  Roger Noyes: the broad swath.
• 29:03
  Roger Noyes: It's really important when it comes to tools, right? That you.
• 29:08
  Roger Noyes: you really understand what your problem is. Right?
• 29:11
  Melinda Lee: Yeah. And that's not just your problem or your department's problem. Right? It's like the whole, the problem of the entire organization.
• 29:18
  Melinda Lee: right?
• 29:18
  Roger Noyes: We had. I'll give you a great example of tool implementation. Right? So
• 29:25
  Roger Noyes: we had a system.
• 29:29
  Roger Noyes: Where
• 29:30
  Roger Noyes: we it was like a time tracking system right? But it was also like a project management system as well.
• 29:39
  Melinda Lee: Right and.
• 29:40
  Roger Noyes: And it was all the bells and whistles. It was like the one of the top tiers.
• 29:46
  Melinda Lee: Okay.
• 29:47
  Roger Noyes: And here, here we are like a small startup, maybe, like 10 people, 10 or 15 people that were using it right? The the organization.
• 29:54
  Melinda Lee: Reaction.
• 29:55
  Roger Noyes: Bigger than that. But we had a core group that was was using it. And one group was using this part or the.
• 30:03
  Roger Noyes: And another part. Another group was using this part, but you know it was still x per month
• 30:09
  Roger Noyes: for the full suite, and we had to pay for it all, and it was I don't know. It was a lot
• 30:15
  Roger Noyes: right. It was a lot of money. So we're looking at is like, do we really need this tool?
• 30:20
  Roger Noyes: Right?
• 30:20
  Melinda Lee: Yeah.
• 30:21
  Roger Noyes: Does it make sense? And
• 30:24
  Roger Noyes: what I did is I went to the team and I said, Listen.
• 30:27
  Roger Noyes: this seems 1st of all, it's super expensive.
• 30:30
  Melinda Lee: Yeah.
• 30:31
  Roger Noyes: I'd like to cut some costs right.
• 30:33
  Melinda Lee: Yeah.
• 30:33
  Roger Noyes: You think we can go out there and find another solution?
• 30:36
  Roger Noyes: And basically, there were a few stakeholders that would be like they were actually using the tool, and it it benefited their day to day.
• 30:44
  Roger Noyes: And I was like.
• 30:45
  Roger Noyes: Do we want to kind of put together a group to to check this out and do the evaluation and and assess like half a dozen options. Right? And we did that and checked in every once in a while. But the team effectively chose
• 31:02
  Roger Noyes: the the ultimate solution
• 31:04
  Roger Noyes: right? Because they came in. And they said, This is, these are
• 31:08
  Roger Noyes: as a team. This is what they did you know there was like 4 or 5 of them, and they said, Here are the 6
• 31:14
  Roger Noyes: to tools that we we think could meet our needs.
• 31:19
  Roger Noyes: Here are the pluses. Here are the minuses, right here are the costs
• 31:22
  Roger Noyes: right?
• 31:24
  Roger Noyes: And they came down, and they they kind of figured it out themselves and said, This is the one we want to use. It was literally 20% of the cost. And it fits 80% of our needs right. We might need to do this other thing over here for some of the project management stuff, but for all the time tracking right and all the analysis. Boom.
• 31:43
  Roger Noyes: and
• 31:45
  Roger Noyes: I was like, this is great, and now they're a part of it, right? They made.
• 31:51
  Roger Noyes: So they're going to use the pool
• 31:53
  Roger Noyes: right? Buy a tool and say, Hey, team, use this tool. They're gonna be like, Oh, I got this other way thing I'm doing. And you know, the adoption, the adoption and the implementation right is always just like, Oh, it's gonna be a piece of cake and this and that.
• 32:07
  Roger Noyes: but unless folks use it.
• 32:09
  Roger Noyes: it's not worth, you know.
• 32:13
  Roger Noyes: Right? So right?
• 32:14
  Roger Noyes: So I think that was
• 32:16
  Roger Noyes: a
• 32:17
  Roger Noyes: a good example of, Hey, you! You get folks and you get the team together right? And you say, Hey, we
• 32:26
  Roger Noyes: we're going to make a change
• 32:28
  Roger Noyes: right? That is happening
• 32:30
  Roger Noyes: right. That was the direction it's not happening. We are not going to
• 32:34
  Roger Noyes: right. We are not going to pay whatever it was, some crazy amount.
• 32:38
  Roger Noyes: Right? Let's find another solution great.
• 32:40
  Roger Noyes: And within, you know, 3 or 4 weeks we had that solution.
• 32:44
  Melinda Lee: Nice.
• 32:45
  Roger Noyes: Yeah.
• 32:46
  Melinda Lee: Having them be a part of the solution, letting them know that we need to make a change, and yet like having them find their own solution.
• 32:55
  Roger Noyes: And help protect, and then the adoptions go. The adoption of it goes through the roof.
• 33:03
  Melinda Lee: Right.
• 33:03
  Roger Noyes: Right? So that all the team right?
• 33:06
  Roger Noyes: Yeah. And
• 33:08
  Roger Noyes: and you know you're going to.
• 33:10
  Roger Noyes: You know, you know, you've made a good decision. And
• 33:13
  Roger Noyes: now you're more efficient
• 33:15
  Roger Noyes: right? And now you have better
• 33:18
  Roger Noyes: trust and team
• 33:20
  Roger Noyes: cohesion right.
• 33:24
  Roger Noyes: At least, you know it's it's a
• 33:27
  Roger Noyes: it's a marathon, right? Not a race or something like that. Wasn't.
• 33:31
  Roger Noyes: You really just you, you build, you build on it. I had this.
• 33:35
  Melinda Lee: Right.
• 33:37
  Roger Noyes: Oh, anyway. Sorry.
• 33:40
  Melinda Lee: Yeah, I love it.
• 33:42
  Melinda Lee: I mean, it's so true, right? We we want to have them be a part of the solution. And the solution sometimes.
• 33:49
  Roger Noyes: We can.
• 33:49
  Melinda Lee: Incremental. Yeah adoption into it. It might not be that we get. We use it right away all the time, or but just adopting certain parts of it. But as long as they end up using it all because I think most systems, it's especially those big ones like, do you really need all of that? Do you really need all those bells and whistles? Yeah, and pay X amount for it? And then like. And then sometimes you think you're gonna use it.
• 34:14
  Melinda Lee: but then you end up, not using it.
• 34:16
  Roger Noyes: I've I have, I have.
• 34:18
  Melinda Lee: I'd like to.
• 34:19
  Roger Noyes: I am guilty
• 34:21
  Roger Noyes: on that.
• 34:22
  Melinda Lee: Guilt.
• 34:22
  Roger Noyes: Like, I've yeah purchased
• 34:25
  Roger Noyes: products. And so.
• 34:27
  Melinda Lee: Yeah.
• 34:27
  Roger Noyes: That it was like this is gonna be awesome. And it was like, Oh.
• 34:31
  Melinda Lee: And now.
• 34:31
  Roger Noyes: What I thought it was gonna be
• 34:33
  Roger Noyes: right, and you only.
• 34:34
  Melinda Lee: And I think there's also a timing. Yeah, there's a learning. There's a learning, sometimes, I think, and with me as a business owner there's a timing aspect of it, too. It may not be the right time, because it could be later on. But it's it's just yeah. Yeah. So
• 34:51
  Melinda Lee: yeah, well, thank you so much, Roger. I gained so much from this valuable
• 34:57
  Melinda Lee: conversation episode around teams. So much about what it takes to be a an effective leader, a servant leader, listening to others, listening to their different needs.
• 35:09
  Melinda Lee: being able to manage all the parts, to be able to build a cohesive team
• 35:16
  Melinda Lee: and and then also thinking about systems, what are the right tools to help the teams be more cohesive, and that means including them as part of the solution.
• 35:25
  Melinda Lee: So thank you so much. I'd like to end with. What is your one leadership, golden takeaway that you'd like the audience to remember.
• 35:36
  Roger Noyes: So for me. It's hands down.
• 35:40
  Roger Noyes: building trust.
• 35:43
  Roger Noyes: and you build it early and often right. There was a great quote, so my.
• 35:48
  Roger Noyes: I have 2 teenage daughters, and for this school year my wife was like, Hey, I'm gonna put up a whiteboard. I'm gonna put a quote on it
• 35:57
  Roger Noyes: every morning right for you guys.
• 35:59
  Melinda Lee: Cute.
• 36:00
  Roger Noyes: Like, go and.
• 36:01
  Melinda Lee: Oh!
• 36:02
  Roger Noyes: Right. This one actually came up the other day. And I was like, this is perfect for the podcast
• 36:08
  Roger Noyes: and I don't know who to to attribute it to. She just put it down on the on the board.
• 36:14
  Roger Noyes: Trust is built in drops
• 36:17
  Roger Noyes: and lost in buckets.
• 36:20
  Melinda Lee: Yeah.
• 36:22
  Melinda Lee: Yep.
• 36:25
  Melinda Lee: so true it can be
• 36:28
  Melinda Lee: spilled, thrown, poured in 1Â min like out the door. Everything that you've
• 36:34
  Melinda Lee: taking the time to build the trust on? Yeah. Yeah. So really think through.
• 36:39
  Roger Noyes: Really, like.
• 36:41
  Melinda Lee: Yeah.
• 36:41
  Roger Noyes: It's a
• 36:43
  Roger Noyes: come loggerheads, or whatever the situation is. If you have trust in that individual across.
• 36:47
  Melinda Lee: Great.
• 36:48
  Roger Noyes: Cable.
• 36:49
  Roger Noyes: right.
• 36:51
  Melinda Lee: I get? I told. Yes, I agree with that. Yeah.
• 36:55
  Melinda Lee: At the end of the day, even though we're butting heads, we still trust each other. We still work with each other. And I think that that's so crucial, especially with our, you know, complex
• 37:04
  Melinda Lee: chaos in environment.
• 37:06
  Melinda Lee: things are not going to be.
• 37:08
  Melinda Lee: you know, bells and whistles and cap, you go lucky. But when you have trust, even when things are not going well, they're gonna stick together with it, and I'm thinking about all the times in my life when I've had all the people that I trusted, and we weren't in agreement with many things, but then it was still that trust that carried us through because of all the like. You said the the drops that we put together to build that.
• 37:31
  Melinda Lee: and keep that foundation and bond.
• 37:34
  Roger Noyes: At.
• 37:35
  Melinda Lee: So I really appreciate you sharing that and not and not
• 37:39
  Melinda Lee: damaging that
• 37:40
  Melinda Lee: with poor decisions and poor communication.
• 37:44
  Roger Noyes: Yeah.
• 37:45
  Melinda Lee: Yeah.
• 37:46
  Roger Noyes: Doing great. I thank you so much for having me.
• 37:49
  Melinda Lee: Thank you, Roger. Thank you so much for joining. I trust that the audience tick took took away a lot just like I did, and until I see you. Next time. Audience, I am your sister, and flow. May prosperity flow to you through you and onto others always. Thank you so much. Take care until next time. Thank you, Roger.
• 38:11
  Roger Noyes: Take care bye.
• 38:12
  Melinda Lee: Bye.