Latest / Karl and Crew / Being Prepared with an Answer with Abdu Murray; Sharing His Story Through Film with Nick Vujicic; and A Ride to Redemption with Joby Walters
Transcript
- 0:01S1: Coming to you live in studio. It's Carl and crew
- 0:05S1: on Moody Radio.
- 0:07S2: Well, my friend's husband and her had a bit of
- 0:10S2: a dispute. Who was right?
- 0:14S3: I'm not getting in the middle of that one. Just
- 0:17S3: to tell you.
- 0:17S2: Not a marital spat, okay? Just a simply difference in
- 0:21S2: a difference in understanding. And here is how I became
- 0:24S2: involved in that. Was on one of those AAU basketball
- 0:29S2: trips with, um, with my, I'm trying to remember which
- 0:33S2: kid it was. This was with my daughter. We were
- 0:35S2: on an AAU trip to some place for where you
- 0:38S2: go and you stay in a hotel for a couple
- 0:41S2: of days. And the kids usually play games all weekend.
- 0:45S2: So you're, you're looking at the schedule going, do we
- 0:47S2: have the 8:00 game? AM I going to be dragging
- 0:49S2: myself up? Although when everyone else is complaining about the
- 0:52S2: 8 a.m. game, you want to know who's not the
- 0:55S2: morning radio host? Oh, I'm never complaining about the 8 a.m. game. Why?
- 1:00S2: Because I've been up for hours. Well, that's.
- 1:02S3: Sleeping in, really, if you think about.
- 1:04S2: It. Exactly.
- 1:05S3: So, okay.
- 1:06S2: So we were this was the evening and they had
- 1:08S2: had games that day. And so the girls were playing
- 1:12S2: in the pool at the hotel, which is a big
- 1:14S2: part of the fun of those trips. The half the
- 1:17S2: fun is the games, and the other half is the
- 1:19S2: craziness that happens in the hotel. They're running around the
- 1:22S2: hallways in your pajamas and your Nike slides going in
- 1:27S2: the pool, knocking on people's doors, just doing stuff that
- 1:30S2: kids do on trips. So they're playing in the pool.
- 1:32S2: And the this other mom and I, we were kind
- 1:35S2: of supervising. So we're sitting in the chairs beside the
- 1:38S2: pool and she, we, we, I don't even remember how
- 1:41S2: this came up, but she said that her husband had
- 1:44S2: said something about people and she and said that, you know,
- 1:51S2: everyone's a child of God. And so she said, and I,
- 1:57S2: I corrected him. I said, well, no, that's not actually true.
- 2:04S2: So they were divided on this. The husband said. Everyone's
- 2:09S2: a child of God. Therefore, something had to be true.
- 2:14S2: I don't even remember what the what the qualifier was,
- 2:16S2: but that was where he landed. Everyone's a child of God.
- 2:19S2: And she said, and I told him, no, everyone's not
- 2:22S2: a child of God. And so I said, well, I
- 2:27S2: got a thought on this. So who was right? The
- 2:31S2: husband or the wife? Is everyone a child of God?
- 2:37S2: Because that's commonly said, if you've listened to this program
- 2:40S2: for any length of time, you know the answer to
- 2:42S2: this one and you know how strongly I feel about it.
- 2:45S2: But this was like, like Carl said, like throwing red meat.
- 2:49S3: Yeah.
- 2:51S2: It's like, this is actually something we talk a lot
- 2:53S2: about on the show. So would you like me to
- 2:56S2: share with you? But before I get to the answer,
- 3:01S2: I would love for you to weigh in on this
- 3:04S2: simple little question. Is everyone a child of God or no?
- 3:10S2: What do you say? Text us 800 555 7898. Who
- 3:15S2: was right? Husband or wife? Is everyone a child of
- 3:18S2: God or not? And why is it so important that
- 3:21S2: we know the difference?
- 3:23S1: Standing on the rock each and every day. You're listening
- 3:27S1: to Carl and Crew.
- 3:29S2: Thank you for weighing in on this little, uh, this
- 3:32S2: little divide. And I should emphasize, this was a very
- 3:35S2: friendly disagreement between a husband and wife, where one thought
- 3:40S2: made an off hand comment about everyone being a child
- 3:44S2: of God, and the other said, no, I actually don't
- 3:46S2: think that's true. And so who is right? So many
- 3:50S2: of you weighed in on this, and absolutely, the wife
- 3:53S2: was right on this one when she chimed in to say, no,
- 3:57S2: not everyone is a child of God. This is a
- 4:01S2: commonly misunderstood one for a couple of reasons, as we've
- 4:04S2: been tackling some of these other things that are often
- 4:07S2: attributed to the Bible that aren't everyone's a child of God,
- 4:11S2: I think is how it's intended. Everyone is loved by God.
- 4:16S2: Everyone has value and in the eyes of God.
- 4:20S3: And created in his image.
- 4:22S2: Image of God. So I think it's often said to
- 4:27S2: intended to mean those things value, worth, love, image bearers,
- 4:33S2: all true. But it is not unloving to make the
- 4:38S2: distinction that in terms of being a child of God,
- 4:41S2: that is not something that happens automatically, and I. Karl says,
- 4:46S2: I'm big on this one and I. I only am
- 4:50S2: because to understand the. God. If you don't understand this,
- 4:54S2: then you'll misunderstand the gospel.
- 4:56S3: Yes.
- 4:57S2: Correct.
- 4:57S3: Yes.
- 4:58S2: So I want to take you to John one. I
- 5:01S2: want to read to you. I'll start with let's see.
- 5:04S2: Let's start with verse nine and go on to verse
- 5:08S2: 13 says, the true light, which gives light to everyone,
- 5:13S2: was coming into the world. He was in the world,
- 5:15S2: and the world was made through him, yet the world
- 5:17S2: did not know him. He came to his own, and
- 5:21S2: his own people did not receive him. But to all
- 5:24S2: who did receive him, who believed in his name, he
- 5:27S2: gave the right to become children of God, who were
- 5:31S2: born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh,
- 5:34S2: nor of the will of man, but of God. But
- 5:38S2: to all who did receive him, verse 12 again, who
- 5:42S2: believed in his name, he gave the right to become
- 5:45S2: children of God. So I want to make a couple
- 5:48S2: of observations on this very simple, very straightforward passage. We
- 5:52S2: see that a couple of things have to happen. First,
- 5:55S2: that becoming a child of God is a right. You
- 5:59S2: have the right to become children of God. Well, who
- 6:01S2: determines that? Well, it's according to the will of God. Well, how?
- 6:07S2: How does one become a child of God? How does
- 6:09S2: one obtain that right? To all who receive him. So
- 6:14S2: there's a receiving. And Carl likes to talk about the
- 6:17S2: wide receiver in football.
- 6:19S3: Absolutely.
- 6:20S2: It's not just a wide. Or does he say, whoa,
- 6:24S2: what was what's the word he always uses.
- 6:26S3: Was it the wide receiver. No. It'll come to me.
- 6:29S2: If you've heard Carl talk about this wide receiver. He
- 6:32S2: draws a distinction between receiving and something else, and I
- 6:34S2: can't remember. So you need to help me out with
- 6:36S2: this one. Text me if you remember it. To all
- 6:39S2: who receive like a receiver brings in the ball, there's
- 6:42S2: a receiving that happens. It's not just a handout. Like
- 6:45S2: it's not just a set of beliefs. Who believed in
- 6:48S2: his name. He gave the right to become children of God.
- 6:52S2: So not everyone is a child of God.
- 6:54S3: No.
- 6:55S2: And if you're not a child of God, what are you?
- 6:59S2: You think about the process by which someone becomes a
- 7:04S2: a citizen of any country. Every country established its own
- 7:09S2: set of protocol rules.
- 7:12S3: The rules.
- 7:12S2: The parameters, the circumstances that make you a citizen. Let's
- 7:16S2: just take of the of the U.S. how does one
- 7:19S2: become a citizen of the U.S.? Well, for the most
- 7:22S2: common way is that you're born here. And if you
- 7:25S2: were born here, then you are a citizen for the
- 7:27S2: most part, right?
- 7:29S3: Yeah.
- 7:29S2: Sometimes through parents.
- 7:31S3: Yes. True.
- 7:32S2: So I have a nephew and now a little niece
- 7:35S2: just born recently. My brother, who's a U.S. citizen born here,
- 7:40S2: now lives abroad. But because of his.
- 7:44S3: Who he is.
- 7:45S2: His citizenship. Yes, his children. Though they live in another country,
- 7:50S2: they have the right to become citizens of the U.S.
- 7:55S2: and then, through naturalization, there's a whole process. When you
- 7:58S2: meet the legal requirements, you can become a citizen. You're
- 8:03S2: given the right to become a citizen of the U.S.
- 8:05S2: until you are a citizen of the U.S., you are
- 8:08S2: not right. And when you become a child of God,
- 8:12S2: you belong to him. Here's the uncomfortable reality. There's not
- 8:17S2: this sort of neutral zone where you don't belong to anybody,
- 8:24S2: where you're kind of an orphan, and then you are
- 8:28S2: adopted into God's family, sort of. But when you read
- 8:33S2: the scripture, when you're not a child of God, you're
- 8:37S2: a child of Satan until you become a child of God.
- 8:41S3: That is so hard to hear.
- 8:43S2: It sounds it sounds harsh, right? Even getting the words out,
- 8:46S2: because you don't want to look around and say that
- 8:50S2: somebody's a child of Satan, because that sounds like a
- 8:52S2: horrible insult. But let's look to the Word of God.
- 8:56S2: This is still in the book of John. John eight.
- 8:59S2: This is Jesus's interaction. He says, he says to them,
- 9:03S2: If God were your father, you would love me, for
- 9:06S2: I have come here from God. I have not come
- 9:08S2: on my own. God sent me. Why is my language
- 9:11S2: not clear to you? Because you were unable to hear
- 9:13S2: what I say. You belong to your father, the devil,
- 9:17S2: and you want to carry out your father's desires. He
- 9:19S2: was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth.
- 9:22S2: For there is no truth in him. You belong to
- 9:29S2: your father, the devil. I mean, it sounds like he's
- 9:34S2: insulting them, but he's. He's just speaking what is true
- 9:37S2: about them? It's the children. When you become a children
- 9:44S2: of a child of God by believing in him, receiving
- 9:47S2: him not just intellectually, not just believing a set of ideas,
- 9:52S2: but through personal relationship with Jesus Christ. You're given all
- 9:55S2: of the rights that come along with being God's kid
- 10:00S2: until you are God's kid. You belong to Satan.
- 10:05S3: Man, that's like a gut punch.
- 10:08S2: Why is it so? Why is it that. Why is
- 10:10S2: this one a hard one to talk about? Because it
- 10:13S2: draws a clear line of distinction. And sometimes we don't
- 10:16S2: really like to do that because as we've talked about
- 10:19S2: earlier this week, we talked with Sam Storms about this,
- 10:21S2: how it can things that sound unloving. Sometimes we want
- 10:28S2: to assume that they're not true. Like, well, well, God
- 10:31S2: is love. That's absolutely true. God is truth. So truth
- 10:36S2: and love both. God embodies both. So coming up, I
- 10:44S2: want to open up the phone lines on this Freedom
- 10:47S2: Friday because that's one of my favorite things to do
- 10:48S2: on Fridays is to hear your story. And I want
- 10:51S2: to simply ask you, when did you go from being
- 10:55S2: a child of Satan to becoming a child of God?
- 10:57S3: Wow.
- 10:59S2: I want to celebrate the fact that we belong to God,
- 11:01S2: because that's a right given to us according to God's will,
- 11:05S2: because we received and we believed in his name. When
- 11:09S2: did you go from becoming a child of Satan? Even
- 11:13S2: if you didn't, even if your life didn't look crazy.
- 11:15S2: It didn't. I'm not saying that you were worshiping Satan.
- 11:18S2: I'm not saying that you were into things that appear
- 11:21S2: to be very dark, but spiritually speaking, you're either a
- 11:25S2: child of Satan or a child of God. When did
- 11:27S2: you go from becoming a child of Satan to becoming
- 11:30S2: a child of God? 800 555, 7898. Let's hear some
- 11:36S2: testimonies this morning. I would love, love, love to talk
- 11:39S2: to you. 805 5557898. What an absolute privilege to be
- 11:46S2: called a child of God. First John three one says this.
- 11:51S2: See what kind of love the father has given to us,
- 11:53S2: that we should be called children of God, and so
- 11:57S2: we are. Want to jump down to verse ten. This
- 12:00S2: is now first John 310. By this it is evident
- 12:04S2: who are the children of God, and who are the
- 12:06S2: children of the devil? Whoever does not practice righteousness is
- 12:10S2: not of God, nor is the one who does not
- 12:12S2: love his brother. When we belong to God, we have
- 12:15S2: the ability not to live a sinless, perfect life. We
- 12:19S2: know that we are being sanctified. We are being perfected.
- 12:24S2: But when we belong to God, we have the ability
- 12:27S2: to have victory over sin to overcome. So we belong
- 12:32S2: to him, or we belong to Satan. And there's no
- 12:36S2: in between. That's clear in scripture. And so I wanted
- 12:40S2: to ask you this morning on this Freedom Friday, let's celebrate.
- 12:44S2: When did you go from becoming a child of Satan
- 12:46S2: to being adopted into God's family, becoming his kid? 800 555, 7898. J.
- 12:55S2: Calling in this morning from Hernando, Florida. Tell me, when
- 12:58S2: did you go from becoming a child of Satan to
- 13:00S2: becoming a child of God?
- 13:04S4: Yeah. Good morning. Um, my born again date was November
- 13:07S4: the 11th of 2007. And, um, I was, uh, a
- 13:13S4: lifelong battle with, um, a lot of negatives and it
- 13:18S4: led to suicidal tendencies. And just, I had a, I
- 13:21S4: had a moment where I was reflecting on life and
- 13:24S4: I just, you know, said, God, if you're there, I
- 13:27S4: need to know, I need you to show me in
- 13:30S4: such a way that that no one, no thing, not
- 13:32S4: even myself and my own, you know, deceiving ways which
- 13:36S4: I learned to know later. You know, nothing would take
- 13:39S4: that away from me. And he did. He came to
- 13:41S4: me through his word. He showed me his truth. And
- 13:44S4: and that was the beginning of, of 20 years. Now that,
- 13:49S4: as I mentioned, uh, before, you know, the battle rages on.
- 13:54S4: But as you just also stated that it's, it's in
- 13:58S4: his word and it's in his truth and his revealing.
- 14:01S4: It's not on my part. It's not on anything that
- 14:04S4: anyone or anything else could ever try to defer what
- 14:08S4: he has said. And so he has called me his
- 14:11S4: son through his word and through the the ways that,
- 14:14S4: you know, I've turned my life over to him. It
- 14:16S4: hasn't been perfect. It's not been easy. And I don't
- 14:19S4: think it ever will be until we're with him just
- 14:21S4: because this life is made to have that. But as
- 14:24S4: Jesus said, we can be of good cheer because he
- 14:26S4: has overcome the world and we can trust in that.
- 14:29S4: So that was the that was the moment that life
- 14:32S4: changed for me to all measures. and in all circumstances.
- 14:37S4: And and I know that. And that's what has overwhelmed
- 14:40S4: me this morning just by catching your program.
- 14:42S2: Yeah. Jay, thank you so much from Florida. So appreciate
- 14:45S2: your call. Great reflections there. And you just think it
- 14:50S2: let that hit you this morning. What a privilege it
- 14:53S2: is to be called a child of God. I mean,
- 14:56S2: that is not something to be taken lightly. Thanks for
- 14:59S2: your call. I want to go back to to the phones.
- 15:01S2: We've got John calling in from right here in Chicago. John,
- 15:05S2: when did you become a child of God?
- 15:07S5: Um, in 1993, I was at work, uh, in the
- 15:11S5: back of a car, and we didn't know if we
- 15:12S5: were going to work. And I got into the car.
- 15:14S5: I grew up as a Catholic, but never really went
- 15:16S5: to church. And, um, and then I was hearing him
- 15:19S5: talk to another guy about Christ and he was, and
- 15:22S5: I started asking questions. He passed me back the Bible
- 15:24S5: and it literally took me 15 minutes. I was broken
- 15:26S5: because of all my teenage years of anxiety and all that.
- 15:29S5: And then I, I was ready and he, he gave
- 15:32S5: me this opportunity to invite Christ in my life. And
- 15:34S5: and I did. And then I just remember the first
- 15:38S5: few days, I remember just like seeing that guy and
- 15:41S5: he almost had a glow around him. I just wanted
- 15:42S5: to sit near him. And then I just would be
- 15:44S5: I was getting discipled from him and going to church.
- 15:47S5: But I just like, I remember just God showing me things.
- 15:49S5: I remember it was like, I felt like the birds
- 15:51S5: were singing, you know, like the next few weeks. I mean, and,
- 15:54S5: and I just was like, I, I was, you know,
- 15:56S5: like I was realizing, hey, I shouldn't disrespect my dad.
- 15:59S5: And slowly but surely God was speaking into my heart and.
- 16:02S3: I.
- 16:03S5: Started to take off. I was so hungry. I didn't
- 16:05S5: know anything about the Bible, but I, I just grew
- 16:07S5: and grew and grew, you know?
- 16:08S2: Yeah. John, thank you so much from Chicago. Appreciate your
- 16:12S2: call this morning. Uh, Dana, first time caller from Fort Myers. Myers, Florida.
- 16:16S2: When did you go from being a child of Satan?
- 16:19S2: As hard as that sounds, it was spiritually true of you.
- 16:22S2: Of me? How did you become a child of God?
- 16:26S6: Well, I wanted to know God in a personal way.
- 16:29S6: I always wondered, why did Christ die? I didn't understand
- 16:32S6: why he died. And I want to know him in
- 16:34S6: a personal way. So I went out and I bought
- 16:36S6: a living Bible, and I couldn't understand that. And then
- 16:40S6: I started to go to a few churches and I
- 16:42S6: said there was no God was not there. It was
- 16:45S6: just kind of a dead church. And then the Lord
- 16:48S6: brought two ladies to my house. We sat and we
- 16:51S6: had tea. They never mentioned Christ. They never mentioned the gospel.
- 16:54S6: But before they left, they left me a gospel tract.
- 16:58S6: And I read that gospel track about 15 times and
- 17:01S6: still couldn't understand. And, and so I said, Lord, help
- 17:05S6: me understand what you want me to understand. And at
- 17:08S6: the back of that gospel track was a prayer. And
- 17:10S6: I knew I was supposed to say that prayer from
- 17:12S6: my heart, which I did. And it was October 11th, 1976,
- 17:17S6: at 445 in the afternoon that Jesus Christ saved my soul.
- 17:21S2: Yeah. Dana, thank you so much. First time caller from
- 17:25S2: Fort Myers, Florida. Wow. Beautiful story. Uh, Brian from Silas,
- 17:30S2: Alabama calling in this morning. Thanks for calling in, Brian.
- 17:33S2: When did you go from being a child of Satan
- 17:35S2: to becoming a child of God?
- 17:38S7: Uh. Good morning. In 1998, I was married with one child. Uh,
- 17:46S7: doing our own way. Me and my wife both. And
- 17:49S7: God found me in my lowest part. In my mire.
- 17:55S7: In the bedroom of the home we was living in.
- 17:59S7: Face down in some forest green carpet. Just bawling. I
- 18:04S7: come to Christ there. And later me and my wife,
- 18:08S7: we both joined our local church. Uh, my wife saved.
- 18:12S7: All my children are saved. Now, we are currently very
- 18:18S7: active in the church. I'm a deacon, uh, my wife,
- 18:21S7: a Sunday school teacher. I'm a discipleship training teacher.
- 18:24S2: Yeah.
- 18:25S7: The Lord's done amazing things for us.
- 18:27S2: Yeah. Brian, thank you so much for your call. You know,
- 18:31S2: the beautiful thing is, is even each time I say it,
- 18:34S2: the words, it's hard to to get out say that
- 18:37S2: someone we were once children of Satan. But I think
- 18:41S2: it's important that we are reminded of that this morning,
- 18:44S2: of the privilege it is to be a child of
- 18:46S2: God that that's not that's not automatic. It wasn't our effort.
- 18:50S2: It wasn't our striving. We can't. Nobody's born a child
- 18:54S2: of God. It's not by birthright. It's not by human effort.
- 18:58S2: It's by the will of God. When we believe and
- 19:01S2: we receive him, that's when we're given that right. And
- 19:04S2: so I want to speak to you this morning. Maybe
- 19:06S2: you're a little uncomfortable because you you're not a child
- 19:10S2: of God. And now you're hearing me say that that
- 19:13S2: means you're a child of Satan. The beautiful thing is
- 19:16S2: you don't have to stay there. And there's not some
- 19:19S2: long to become a U.S. citizen to be given the
- 19:22S2: right to become a citizen of this country. It can
- 19:24S2: be a very lengthy process. There's not some long process
- 19:28S2: for you to go through to become a child of God.
- 19:33S2: You have to do a couple of things. By the
- 19:36S2: power of the Holy Spirit, you're seeing some things more clearly.
- 19:40S2: You're seeing your sin. You're seeing that you are separated
- 19:43S2: from God. Those are spiritual realities. We're born with our
- 19:47S2: back to God. We're born trying, bent on going our
- 19:50S2: own way from the very beginning. Sin is the default
- 19:53S2: that we are not born good. We are born into sin.
- 19:58S2: But here's the thing. If you are ready to confess
- 20:00S2: that you are a sinner, that you need a Savior,
- 20:04S2: and that it's not just some higher power, that it's
- 20:08S2: through Jesus Christ alone that we are given this right
- 20:11S2: to become children of God, then you can become a
- 20:14S2: child of God today. You can be adopted into into
- 20:18S2: God's family as one of his kids. Today. Right now.
- 20:23S2: But count the cost. Count the cost because this isn't
- 20:27S2: a light thing. This is giving the totality of your
- 20:31S2: life all of who you are to him. It's the
- 20:35S2: best life you can imagine. But I don't want to
- 20:38S2: tell you that somehow it's an easy life. Because there's
- 20:42S2: a war. There's a war at work. There's a war
- 20:46S2: that's going to want to pull you back toward the darkness.
- 20:48S2: But when you belong to God, he's got you. So
- 20:51S2: if today you know a few things, maybe for the
- 20:54S2: first time, you're a sinner, that you need a savior
- 20:59S2: and that you know that it's Jesus that you believe
- 21:03S2: he went to the cross for you because you needed it,
- 21:07S2: I needed it. He died a gruesome, horrific death, but
- 21:12S2: then was raised on the third day. And because he
- 21:16S2: defeated death, we do too. My body will die. Your
- 21:21S2: body will die. But we die once we die, and
- 21:26S2: then we are ushered into eternal life where we never
- 21:31S2: have to be separated from God again. So today you
- 21:35S2: want to become a child of God. So by the
- 21:38S2: power of the Holy Spirit that that happens, I want
- 21:41S2: you to have an honest conversation with God. There's no
- 21:45S2: special prayer to pray. You don't have to be in
- 21:48S2: in a church or with a pastor. You have that
- 21:51S2: honest conversation with God where you cry out to him
- 21:55S2: and you tell him, I'm a sinner. I know it,
- 21:57S2: I repent, I turn from the way that I'm going,
- 22:01S2: and now I follow you. I believe, and I receive.
- 22:07S2: I said earlier that Karl often draws a distinction between
- 22:10S2: two things, and he uses a football metaphor. Thanks for
- 22:13S2: those who helped me out on this one. It's not
- 22:15S2: a wide acceptor. It's not just a belief, a set
- 22:20S2: of beliefs. It's a receiving to those who believe, to
- 22:25S2: all who did receive him, who believed in his name,
- 22:28S2: he gave the right to become children of God. So
- 22:31S2: if that's you, have that honest conversation with God. And
- 22:35S2: I want to pray for you. Lord, I thank you
- 22:38S2: that today you are welcoming new members into your family.
- 22:43S2: I thank you that you desire that all would come
- 22:46S2: to know you. We're born into sin, but God, there's this,
- 22:53S2: this void, this hole that only you can fill. And
- 22:58S2: for the person today who's turning to you, who's turning
- 23:01S2: from their sin, who's repenting, who's now receiving you, God,
- 23:07S2: I pray that you would keep them, protect them. God,
- 23:11S2: give them great joy. I pray that by the power
- 23:14S2: of your spirit this would all make sense to them.
- 23:17S2: It would be clear, as clear as can be. God,
- 23:20S2: despite my feeble words, Lord. There would be a complete
- 23:24S2: clarity in this moment. Lord, that you are doing a
- 23:28S2: new thing, that you are adopting them into your family,
- 23:32S2: that today they no longer are a child of Satan.
- 23:35S2: They belong to you. I thank you, Lord for that
- 23:38S2: privilege of being called your kid. Bless this person God,
- 23:43S2: whose turning to you, thank you that you adopt us
- 23:47S2: into your family. What a gracious God you are. In
- 23:50S2: Jesus name, Amen. If that's you, I've got something I
- 23:55S2: want to send you. Today. You became a child of God.
- 23:58S2: We got to send you something so we can celebrate.
- 24:00S2: We can welcome you into the family. Just text the
- 24:02S2: word new to 805 557898. Get this resource from us.
- 24:08S2: Just text new. You're becoming a child of God today.
- 24:11S2: Text new to 805 557898. Welcome to the family.
- 24:17S1: Tune in whenever you like. Check out the Cast and
- 24:20S1: Crew podcast wherever you like to stream.
- 24:23S2: Well, it is not often that you get to feature
- 24:26S2: a story of someone who was once an enforcer for
- 24:30S2: the Hells Angels Motorcycle Club. I don't even know where
- 24:34S2: to start. George Jobey Walters joining us right now. He
- 24:39S2: has a memoir out Cut Free A Hells Angels Ride
- 24:43S2: to Redemption. Where do we start? Jobey. How in the
- 24:47S2: world did you get into this motorcycle life? You loved
- 24:49S2: the bikes or you loved everything that came with it.
- 24:52S8: Young man. Nelsonville, Ohio in school, working his way through
- 24:56S8: pumping gas into motorcycles, got a motorcycle and rode myself
- 24:59S8: to school. And then a young man that stepped on
- 25:01S8: a Greyhound bus with a handshake from his father, headed
- 25:04S8: off to the army, looking at him and saying, be
- 25:06S8: a man. And that man came back and, uh, what
- 25:10S8: he could identify with was where family, where's love? What
- 25:14S8: do I have? I have nothing, I need to find it.
- 25:17S8: And I got on a motorcycle and that's when it began.
- 25:21S8: And it was a 40 year run, a 40 year
- 25:24S8: run on that bike. And I give it up in
- 25:26S8: Arizona and identified as a cowboy. It was a rough time.
- 25:30S8: It was a tough time.
- 25:32S2: Yeah. So, Joby, let me jump in here. So what
- 25:35S2: did the motorcycle gang. The motorcycle club? I don't even
- 25:38S2: know what word you'd use for it. But loyalty was
- 25:41S2: important to you. Did it feel like that was the
- 25:43S2: place where you found belonging? Where you found freedom, where
- 25:46S2: you found some sense of family despite some of the
- 25:49S2: darkness associated with it?
- 25:51S8: Yes, yes I did when I ran into the Hells
- 25:53S8: Angels again. You know, after being a cowboy, a packer,
- 25:57S8: a guide, a wrangler in one of the best, you know.
- 26:00S8: And I just thought I wanted to build a motorcycle again.
- 26:02S8: And that's the only thing that ran me into Hells Angels.
- 26:05S8: An old friend, that friend knew my past. Knew other
- 26:07S8: clubs that I'd run with on my journey. I was
- 26:10S8: still searching for that family and that identity. I could
- 26:14S8: identify with it. Yeah, I had brotherhood for a while,
- 26:16S8: I thought I did. But there's men out there that
- 26:19S8: don't need that patch on their back. They're too scared
- 26:21S8: to get away with it. But others, when you come
- 26:24S8: back to that table, the politics within the fighting, within
- 26:29S8: the fighting outside prison. I got tired of it. And
- 26:32S8: I tried to outrun a lot of things. And I
- 26:35S8: outrun the Lord for 40 years.
- 26:37S2: Yeah.
- 26:38S8: And in my book, you have but God with Ephesians
- 26:41S8: two one through ten. And underneath that, the box which
- 26:45S8: saved my life, that was the spark that lighted the
- 26:48S8: fire in me. I knew I wanted to get out.
- 26:51S2: Yeah. Job, you mentioned that you incarceration. You spent some
- 26:54S2: time in prison. You had been running, running from God.
- 26:57S2: But on the run from the law also. And then
- 27:00S2: you mentioned a box that someone sent to you that
- 27:03S2: your lifelong friend sent to you while you were in prison.
- 27:07S2: Tell me what was in that box.
- 27:10S8: I'll tell you what it was before prison. It was
- 27:12S8: when I when I was running, I was running from ATF, U.S.
- 27:15S8: marshals and Lord. And my intention was to outrun all
- 27:19S8: of them. And Tom said, George, how do I get
- 27:22S8: Ahold of you? You know, Tom sent me a box.
- 27:26S8: I opened that box and it changed my life right there.
- 27:29S8: But when I opened that Tom's Bible there in the
- 27:31S8: literature in it that a lot of people dedicated themselves to,
- 27:34S8: to send with him tape player cassettes. I opened it,
- 27:38S8: I looked up and said, I'm with you, Lord. I'll
- 27:40S8: follow you. And that was my calling. When I came
- 27:43S8: back to face my stuff and got caught, half million
- 27:47S8: dollar bail, you know I was in trouble. But I
- 27:50S8: took the Lord to prison with me. I didn't find
- 27:52S8: him in there. And that's what that box did for me.
- 27:55S8: That's what Tom did for me.
- 27:56S2: Yeah. So once you you said you. It's interesting. You
- 27:59S2: said you didn't find him in prison. You took him
- 28:01S2: to prison. So you didn't run when you were intercepted
- 28:05S2: by the FBI. How long did you spend in prison?
- 28:08S8: I did two and a half years, and I thought more.
- 28:11S8: I thought they were going to nail me, I wouldn't talk.
- 28:13S8: I didn't tell them nothing. I went to prison by myself,
- 28:15S8: but I had quit. I had dropped that identity. And
- 28:19S8: what happened was the judge looked at me and I
- 28:21S8: turned around and looked at the three Hells Angels in
- 28:23S8: the back room that come to see what's going on.
- 28:25S8: And I pointed my finger at him and I said,
- 28:27S8: I'm done. Leave me alone. I'm finished. And I turned
- 28:30S8: to the judge and I said, I don't want to
- 28:33S8: hurt anybody anymore. I'm guilty. And he told me, he said, Joby,
- 28:38S8: he said you were in a no no win situation
- 28:40S8: from the get go. And I looked up and I said,
- 28:42S8: Praise God, I knew I won, I knew I had won. Yeah,
- 28:46S8: I was at peace when I went to prison for
- 28:48S8: two and a half years instead of 8 or 9,
- 28:51S8: and other things had been dropped from me on, on
- 28:53S8: the ATF raids and the Lofton incident, you know, charges
- 28:56S8: were dropped. I had little time. It's amazing.
- 28:59S3: Yeah.
- 29:00S8: God, what God can do. And I preached in prison.
- 29:02S8: I was a peace in there.
- 29:04S2: George Jobey Walters with us right now. His book Cut
- 29:07S2: Free A Hells Angels Ride to Redemption. You know, your
- 29:10S2: story is remarkable. You have a passion now, a mission
- 29:14S2: to reach people who were once like you were, especially
- 29:18S2: those in prison. Why is your heart so tender toward
- 29:20S2: those who have been incarcerated?
- 29:22S8: Because they're searching for something. And what I searched for,
- 29:26S8: why I went where I went and joined, what I joined,
- 29:29S8: and the darkness, you know, that was in it. And
- 29:32S8: here's what they're looking for. There's three things. And everybody
- 29:35S8: out there is they want love. They want respect. And
- 29:39S8: by all, they want forgiveness. And I can agree with
- 29:42S8: that because I was looking for that love and every
- 29:45S8: room I ever walked into with a patch on or not. Today,
- 29:47S8: because of the glow of God in my face, I
- 29:50S8: want respect and the Lord has had me forgiveness. He's
- 29:53S8: blessed me with grace, with faith, and I'm looking at
- 29:57S8: how he does me with mercy. Today. I'm looking at
- 30:00S8: him for that and he's given it to me.
- 30:02S2: Yeah, you're a different man now, aren't you, Toby? You
- 30:06S2: still got still have a little wild man in you.
- 30:08S2: But it's a redeemed wild man, right?
- 30:10S8: Yes it is. You know, we all sinned in the day.
- 30:13S8: I talked to the Lord every day and clear out
- 30:15S8: on a ranch. I smile now I'm happy about this book.
- 30:19S8: But where I live, I ask the Lord, this way
- 30:21S8: out there. I'm off the grid with my horses and hounds.
- 30:23S8: And I take care of the middle of a ranch.
- 30:26S8: And I ask God, why clear out here? And I
- 30:28S8: look across what God gave me, and I ask him,
- 30:30S8: why out here? Why way out here? With everything I
- 30:32S8: got going on in my message. And the Lord told me,
- 30:35S8: he said, so you'll get to know me better.
- 30:37S2: Wow.
- 30:38S8: Yes, and I do.
- 30:40S2: The book is called Cut Free A Hell's Angels Ride
- 30:42S2: to Redemption. George Jobey Walters, our guest. If you want more,
- 30:46S2: just text cut to 805 557898. Text cut 805 557898. Jody,
- 30:57S2: so appreciate your time this morning.
- 31:00S1: Get to know the team behind the scenes. Follow Carl
- 31:03S1: and crew on Facebook and Instagram.
- 31:06S2: Well, you know, when I was a kid and didn't
- 31:09S2: have a lot of wisdom, I remember there was this
- 31:12S2: talk show that was popular. And, you know, I'm almost
- 31:16S2: ashamed to admit that I kind of enjoyed this show
- 31:19S2: because it was, but it was I mean, it was trash.
- 31:23S2: And one of the big things that they would do
- 31:25S2: on this show is they would do paternity tests. And
- 31:29S2: so people would come on. I'm not going to say
- 31:31S2: the name of the show, but you probably know which one.
- 31:33S2: People would come on and they would have these dramatic
- 31:36S2: reveals of you are not the father or you are
- 31:40S2: the father.
- 31:41S3: Father. Yes.
- 31:42S2: And it was and there was always a lot of emotion.
- 31:44S2: And it was of course, dramatized for, for daytime trash TV.
- 31:49S3: Yes. Of course.
- 31:50S2: But the anguish of not knowing who you belong to
- 31:56S2: is real. Many people live with that. Maybe not knowing
- 32:02S2: who their father was or knowing who their father was,
- 32:05S2: but not having a relationship. And so that how much
- 32:09S2: more so is the not knowing who you belong to spiritually.
- 32:12S2: And that's a real that's a real thing when you
- 32:15S2: wrestle with do I, my child of Satan, or am
- 32:18S2: I a child of God? We've got a resource that
- 32:22S2: we made available. We've made available many times, and I
- 32:25S2: want to I want to give it to you today.
- 32:27S2: It's nine ways to know that you stand with God
- 32:29S2: and God stands with you. If you've wrestled with do
- 32:32S2: I am. AM I a child of God? Do I
- 32:34S2: belong to him? How can I be sure this is
- 32:38S2: this may not settle it completely for you, but this
- 32:41S2: is going to give you a good biblical place for
- 32:43S2: how to wrestle with that. Nine Ways to Know You
- 32:45S2: stand with God. He stands with you. Just text the
- 32:48S2: word stand. I'll send it to you. Text stand STAND,
- 32:51S2: stand to 805 557898. Just text the word stand 805 557898.
- 33:01S1: Tune in whenever you like. Check out the Cast and
- 33:04S1: Crew podcast wherever you like to stream.
- 33:07S2: Why do you believe what you believe? Think about it.
- 33:11S2: The why we used to in the studio. For years
- 33:14S2: we had this big. We got these.
- 33:16S3: Letters.
- 33:17S2: Is it in there now?
- 33:18S3: They're hanging here in the engineering. Oh, yeah. We keep
- 33:20S3: them up. We keeping those letters up?
- 33:22S2: You used to be in the in our in our
- 33:24S2: studio where we have the microphones. Um then there's on
- 33:27S2: the other side of the glass, we have a studio
- 33:29S2: where the engineering happens. So we're, we're facing each other,
- 33:33S2: but we're in separate rooms. So I guess this why
- 33:35S2: is now in the, in the control room and it's
- 33:38S2: a big w h why separate letters, big block letters
- 33:42S2: that Carl wanted because he wanted to keep that question
- 33:47S2: constantly in front of us. Because it's very easy to
- 33:50S2: forget the why, to get to the what, the how,
- 33:54S2: the when, but to miss the why.
- 33:56S3: And to and to make sure you know the why.
- 33:59S3: You understand the why.
- 34:00S2: So back to my question. Why do you believe what
- 34:04S2: you do? Why are you a Christian? Far too many
- 34:09S2: people answer that question by saying things like, well, I
- 34:14S2: was raised in a Christian home. Yeah, well, I've always
- 34:17S2: gone to church. Can I say lovingly that those aren't
- 34:23S2: compelling answers? For what? Why? You're a Christian now. Being
- 34:28S2: born and raised in a Christian home is an awesome thing.
- 34:31S2: I was born and raised in a Christian home.
- 34:33S3: Yeah, great.
- 34:35S2: That's awesome. If you spend a lot of time in
- 34:37S2: church growing up, awesome, that can help set a real foundation.
- 34:42S2: But why are you a Christian? Would you be a
- 34:47S2: Christian if you lived in another part of the world
- 34:49S2: where you grew up? Not going to a church, but
- 34:52S2: going to a mosque or a temple? Persecution because we
- 34:57S2: want our answer to transcend Cultural norms, family expectations. This
- 35:04S2: is what we've always done. Why are you a Christian?
- 35:09S2: We're going to feature a testimony this morning from somebody
- 35:11S2: who I respected deeply. I've had many great conversations on
- 35:15S2: the show with Abdu Murray. He was born and raised
- 35:19S2: in a Muslim culture, and he was devout.
- 35:24S3: Proud, Muslim.
- 35:25S2: Proud.
- 35:25S3: Muslim. He says that.
- 35:26S2: And he had thought through pretty deeply why he was
- 35:31S2: a Muslim. And so when he started to ask Christians
- 35:34S2: why they were Christians, he found their answers pretty uncompelling
- 35:42S2: pretty weak. And he admits now that he's been on
- 35:46S2: this journey, that he even had a sense of kind
- 35:49S2: of a pride of shutting them down a little bit
- 35:52S2: because he recognized they hadn't thought through very deeply why
- 35:55S2: they believed what they believed.
- 35:57S3: Exactly.
- 35:57S2: And in fact, they had a hard time even articulating
- 36:00S2: when pressed what they believed coming up. He took it
- 36:06S2: took him nine years to become a Christian after being
- 36:11S2: a Muslim for most of his life. He said not
- 36:15S2: because it took me nine years to discover what was
- 36:18S2: true once I really started an honest search. But because
- 36:22S2: it took me nine years to wrestle with what accepting
- 36:25S2: what I knew to be true was going to mean
- 36:28S2: for the rest of my life. My family. My culture.
- 36:33S2: Cool testimony coming up from Abdu Murray on this Freedom Friday.
- 36:37S1: It's Carl and crew on Moody Radio.
- 36:41S3: Are you prepared.
- 36:42S2: To make a defense of the faith, to give a
- 36:44S2: reason for the hope that you have in Christ? This
- 36:47S2: comes out of First Peter 315. It can feel a
- 36:50S2: little intimidating. You can feel like I never went to
- 36:53S2: Bible school. I don't have any kind of like formal training.
- 36:57S2: So being prepared to make a defense sounds like some
- 37:00S2: sort of, like, courtroom thing. Is that possible for the
- 37:03S2: average person? Got a special guest joining us. He's become
- 37:07S2: a favorite here in Carlin crew. Abdu Murray, he's a speaker.
- 37:09S2: He's an author. He's president of Embrace the Truth. The
- 37:13S2: most of his life. He was a proud Muslim until
- 37:15S2: a nine year journey investigation pointed him to the Christian faith. Abdu,
- 37:21S2: thanks for being with us again. In your own story.
- 37:24S2: You obviously did not know this verse, but you wanted
- 37:28S2: to be someone who had a good, clear reason as
- 37:30S2: to why you believed what you believed. Is that accurate?
- 37:34S9: Oh, that's absolutely accurate. In fact, when I was asking
- 37:37S9: Christians why they were Christians, when I was a Muslim,
- 37:40S9: they didn't give me reasons. They just gave me like
- 37:42S9: sort of history, like, oh, why we go to the
- 37:44S9: Presbyterian Church on Christmas and Easter. So I guess I'm
- 37:46S9: a Presbyterian. And I thought to myself, well, you don't
- 37:50S9: do that with anything in your life. You don't prepare
- 37:52S9: for school that way. You don't prepare for your job
- 37:55S9: or retirement or your marriage without thinking about it. Why
- 37:59S9: wouldn't you think through your eternity with that? And along
- 38:03S9: the way, there were Christians who actually were prepared to
- 38:06S9: share their faith. And they did. And they did it
- 38:08S9: not only intellectually, but also emotionally compelling ways where they
- 38:13S9: married the two things together. And although it took me
- 38:16S9: nine years, it wasn't because the answers were hard to find.
- 38:18S9: It's because the answers were hard to accept. But the
- 38:21S9: answers were there. And I think God, for those Christians who, uh,
- 38:27S9: were prepared to share their faith because they encountered someone
- 38:29S9: like me who needed reasons, not just emotions, but also reasons.
- 38:33S9: And I do believe those things walk hand in hand.
- 38:35S9: And the good news is the Christian faith offers you both.
- 38:37S2: Yeah. Now, when you look at your own journey, you know,
- 38:39S2: it's interesting that you noted that there were historical reasons
- 38:43S2: that Christians gave, if you were honest. I mean, how
- 38:47S2: much of what of your commitment to your Islamic faith
- 38:51S2: was rooted in tradition and cultural belief as well.
- 38:55S9: Yeah. And that was the thing that that I was
- 38:57S9: confronted with when I started to read the Bible, I
- 38:59S9: came across a passage where John the Baptist is challenging
- 39:03S9: people in Luke chapter three with the commensurate count in
- 39:05S9: Matthew chapter three, where John the Baptist is saying, look,
- 39:09S9: tradition doesn't save you guys. Truth is what saves. And
- 39:12S9: the truth is, is that Jesus is who he says
- 39:14S9: he was and these kind of things. Well, that challenged
- 39:17S9: me because I was asking Christians, why are you a Christian?
- 39:19S9: They'd say tradition. I'd say, not good enough. But then
- 39:22S9: John the Baptist actually, as I was reading this book,
- 39:25S9: not to believe a word of it, really, but reading
- 39:27S9: this book, he challenged me, why are you a Muslim?
- 39:30S9: And I had put Christians on the defensive for so
- 39:32S9: long that many of them hadn't actually had that chance
- 39:35S9: to ask me that. Had they asked me, I would
- 39:37S9: have gone into, oh, this is why I believe the
- 39:39S9: Quran wasn't changed. And this is why I believe Islam
- 39:42S9: is the greatest religion in the history of the world. Um,
- 39:45S9: but the real reason fundamentally was because I was raised
- 39:50S9: that way. And so I found reasons to justify my
- 39:53S9: belief that the question I had in my in my
- 39:55S9: own heart was, do I have enough good reasons or
- 39:59S9: do I just want this to be true? Um, and
- 40:02S9: I went on a long journey to find out if
- 40:04S9: it's true, not just do I want it to be true.
- 40:06S9: And the good news is, is that I found the truth.
- 40:08S9: The bad news was in the interim was that it
- 40:10S9: wasn't the thing I was raised in. But hallelujah. Honestly,
- 40:14S9: I the struggle was worth it. Um, and if you're,
- 40:17S9: if anybody is sitting there and they're doubting and they're wondering,
- 40:19S9: do I believe this because I'm supposed to. Let's say
- 40:21S9: you're a Christian. You're wondering the same question, do I
- 40:23S9: believe it because I'm supposed to don't believe it because
- 40:26S9: it's true. And the reality is when you look, you
- 40:28S9: will find a lot of answers for your questions.
- 40:31S2: You know, that's so reassuring to for someone to hear,
- 40:34S2: I'm sure, because any sort of doubts can feel so
- 40:38S2: unnerving when you go, why do I believe? Maybe you're
- 40:42S2: you're listening and you're wrestling with that right now and
- 40:44S2: feeling like I don't I maybe I don't have good reasons.
- 40:47S2: And it's, I'm glad that you give the encouragement to,
- 40:50S2: to not to shrink back from those doubts. Don't try
- 40:52S2: to stuff them away and say, okay, I'm just I
- 40:55S2: don't want to think about it. I don't want to wrestle.
- 40:58S2: I want to just kind of stay in this place
- 40:59S2: that I've been. But the wrestling is, is where we
- 41:02S2: gain confidence, right?
- 41:04S9: Absolutely. 100%. I mean, look, doubt is not this dirty word.
- 41:08S9: I know that the Bible says anything is not of faith,
- 41:10S9: is sin, but doubt is not the the opposite of faith.
- 41:14S9: Distrust is the opposite of faith. Cynicism can be the
- 41:17S9: opposite of faith. But doubt, if it drives us to
- 41:19S9: actually find answers, is a good thing. John the Baptist,
- 41:22S9: who was the forerunner of Jesus, who was so destined
- 41:25S9: to be the forerunner of Jesus that when he wasn't
- 41:27S9: even born yet, when he came into contact, into proximity
- 41:31S9: with Jesus, even when Jesus wasn't born yet, John left
- 41:34S9: in his in his mother's womb. That's how close he
- 41:37S9: was to Jesus. And yet, when things get hairy in
- 41:40S9: his life and he is imprisoned for doing the right thing, um,
- 41:45S9: and he's facing beheading. He sends his disciples to ask Jesus,
- 41:48S9: are you the one who is to come, or should
- 41:50S9: we look for another? In other words, John had doubts
- 41:53S9: and Jesus doesn't say, you go tell that faithless, lousy,
- 41:56S9: heartless cousin of mine. He doesn't do that. He says,
- 41:58S9: go and tell John what you see and hear. In
- 42:00S9: other words, go give John the evidence he needs to
- 42:03S9: bolster his faith. Then Jesus compliments John on being a person,
- 42:07S9: that there's been no greater man born among women than
- 42:09S9: John the Baptist. So even though John had expressed doubt,
- 42:13S9: Jesus rewarded his sincere question with evidence and with reasons.
- 42:18S9: And so if John the Baptist can have his moments,
- 42:21S9: we can have our moments too. If they drive us
- 42:24S9: to the foot of the cross, to the feet of Jesus,
- 42:26S9: to ask him some sincere questions, we'll get answers. We
- 42:29S9: really will.
- 42:30S2: You know, thinking back to those conversations, you mentioned that
- 42:33S2: there were some Christians that you would kind of try
- 42:35S2: to interrogate really more to prove them wrong. It sounds like,
- 42:38S2: than to actually engage in meaningful dialogue. And you were
- 42:43S2: quickly able to kind of shut them down. But the
- 42:45S2: ones who engage with you and were able to give
- 42:49S2: you reasons. What about those conversations? Do you remember? Did
- 42:54S2: they point you to scripture? Did they point you to
- 42:56S2: historical fact, or did they just ask you questions that
- 42:59S2: made you think more deeply?
- 43:01S9: They really did all of those things, and certain people
- 43:04S9: did certain things better than others and like all of
- 43:07S9: us do. Um, some said, you know what? I got
- 43:09S9: to say this this is an important thing. Some said
- 43:12S9: the best words you can say to a person because
- 43:14S9: they're true. I don't know, but I'll get back to you.
- 43:17S9: And then they did. And that showed me a level
- 43:20S9: of care and concern for my well-being that wasn't. I
- 43:22S9: want to show you that I win arguments or that
- 43:25S9: I'm right and you're wrong. They wanted to say, I
- 43:27S9: want to look for the truth. That's a really good question.
- 43:29S9: They took my questions seriously, and then they looked into
- 43:32S9: it and got back to me. A lot of times
- 43:34S9: it was pointing to historical realities. A lot of times
- 43:37S9: it was pointing to theological realities and things that were
- 43:40S9: bothering me. They really adapted their response to the questions
- 43:43S9: I actually had. In other words, they listened to the
- 43:46S9: questions I had, not the questions they hope I had.
- 43:50S9: Because we can. We. We can prepare ourselves historically to say,
- 43:53S9: you know, Jesus rose from the dead, which is wonderful.
- 43:55S9: We should all do that. But there are times when
- 43:58S9: someone says, look, I have questions related to suffering and
- 44:01S9: meaning and purpose, and Islam says this, or atheism gives
- 44:06S9: me this sort of response, or Buddhism does respond to
- 44:10S9: the question they're actually asking. And people actually responded to
- 44:13S9: the questions I was asking. Sometimes they were historical, sometimes
- 44:17S9: they were scientific, sometimes they were existential. And they carefully
- 44:23S9: listened to the questions and answered the questions I actually had,
- 44:27S9: not the ones they were hoping I would have.
- 44:29S2: It's interesting because you you mentioned the the distinction, which
- 44:33S2: is a little bit of a nuance because there are,
- 44:36S2: you know, maybe you read a certain book or there's
- 44:38S2: someone that you follow. And so you're really competent in
- 44:40S2: one area, maybe the historical evidence for Jesus. And so
- 44:45S2: you feel well prepared there. So you want to default
- 44:48S2: to maybe where you feel more prepared. And that's not
- 44:51S2: actually what the person is asking, but it's like, hey,
- 44:53S2: but this is what I know. So let me give
- 44:55S2: this to you and hope that it helps. Clearly that
- 44:58S2: doesn't help.
- 44:59S9: Yeah. Well, but it gives you a quick story on this,
- 45:01S9: is that I was invited to speak to a Muslim
- 45:03S9: guy at his home, and I got to his home
- 45:06S9: and he came home from his job. And he was
- 45:09S9: a dealer at a local casino, which is just not
- 45:12S9: a Muslim thing to do. If you're strict about Islam,
- 45:15S9: gambling is forbidden. It's haram. It's called. Yet he was
- 45:18S9: there and he came home and my friend wanted me
- 45:20S9: to speak to him about the historicity of the resurrection
- 45:23S9: of Jesus. So we had this sort of ham handed
- 45:25S9: way into talking about it, and we started talking about it.
- 45:28S9: But he interrupted me about midway through some of the
- 45:30S9: evidences I was giving. He says, look, look, here's my problem.
- 45:33S9: He says, you're from south Lebanon. I'm from south Lebanon.
- 45:36S9: He's like, my issue is, why does God allow such
- 45:40S9: terrible things to happen to our people in the middle
- 45:43S9: of a conflict like this. That's my big issue. You see,
- 45:45S9: the issue wasn't the resurrection. It was this guy was
- 45:49S9: kind of agnostic. He's like, I don't understand God, even
- 45:51S9: if he even exists, why he allows suffering. Now, I
- 45:55S9: wanted to address that question directly. I shifted my thinking
- 45:58S9: towards his existential question about suffering. But here's the good news.
- 46:03S9: The cross and the resurrection, the historical cross and the
- 46:07S9: historical resurrection actually speak to those issues. So don't shy
- 46:11S9: away from the historical stuff. If you can find through
- 46:15S9: an honest conversation where they shoehorn in so you don't
- 46:19S9: have to lead with that, but you can say, hey,
- 46:21S9: I want to hear to understand this. Where does this
- 46:23S9: question on the morality of allowing suffering come into place?
- 46:27S9: This is now a philosophical and theological and a deeply
- 46:29S9: biblical question. We have tons of Scripture about why God
- 46:33S9: allows suffering for a greater good. And that leads us
- 46:36S9: to the cross and the historicity of the cross, because
- 46:39S9: God allowed suffering to happen there for the greatest possible
- 46:43S9: good there could ever be the salvation of the whole world.
- 46:45S9: So you don't have to shy away from the things
- 46:47S9: you know. You just have to make sure you strategically
- 46:50S9: and wisely apply them. That's why Paul says, walk in
- 46:53S9: wisdom toward outsiders in Colossians chapter four, verse five, where
- 46:57S9: he says, walk in wisdom. And what is wisdom? It's
- 47:00S9: just tactically applied knowledge to a given situation. So use
- 47:04S9: what you know, but use it when you know it's
- 47:07S9: the necessary time to use it. But one of the
- 47:09S9: best skills you can have to know that is to listen.
- 47:12S2: Yeah. Oh, such a good conversation. Abdu Murray with us
- 47:15S2: right now, president of Embrace the Truth. Coming up, let's
- 47:18S2: get some practical help. If maybe you're feeling overwhelmed, like
- 47:21S2: I don't know about the historicity of the resurrection and
- 47:24S2: the evidence that Jesus actually was a real man who
- 47:28S2: walked the earth. I don't know that stuff. How do
- 47:30S2: I even start? I'm intimidated. Coming up. Let's tackle it.
- 47:33S2: We've got a special guest with us this morning to
- 47:35S2: help you be prepared to give a defense. If someone
- 47:39S2: is to ask you a reason for the hope that
- 47:41S2: you have in Christ. A little bit of a paraphrase
- 47:43S2: from first Peter 315. For the person who's listening right
- 47:46S2: now and feels overwhelmed because maybe they've born and raised
- 47:51S2: in church, they had to come to a point of
- 47:54S2: following Jesus for themselves, but they haven't studied a lot
- 47:57S2: of this. They didn't go on a nine year journey
- 47:59S2: like you did, where you really parsed out. Why? Why
- 48:03S2: should I believe that Christianity is true? What's a good
- 48:06S2: starting place to begin to prepare?
- 48:08S9: Well, the first thing you should do is to actually
- 48:10S9: just read your scriptures and really get into the commentaries
- 48:14S9: and a good study. Understanding of the historical context and
- 48:19S9: the cultural context of the Scripture. I say that not
- 48:22S9: because the Bible is always the answer, but it really
- 48:25S9: is in many ways. Because, you know, when you look
- 48:27S9: at someone who is a Secret Service agent now, the
- 48:30S9: Secret Service not only protects the president and other officials,
- 48:33S9: but they also are anti counterfeiters. They hunt down counterfeit
- 48:37S9: bills as part of the Department of the Treasury. Now,
- 48:40S9: when you ask a Secret Service agent, how do you
- 48:42S9: spot a counterfeit? They don't study the counterfeits. They study
- 48:47S9: the genuine thing. They study the details behind a $50
- 48:51S9: bill so that when they see something that's remarkably convincing,
- 48:55S9: they're so familiar with the detail that something seems a
- 48:57S9: little off and they can kind of tell, even if
- 49:00S9: they don't know the detail itself specifically, they can they
- 49:03S9: can know this is fake and they can discover it more.
- 49:05S9: So the more you know your scriptures, the more you'll
- 49:07S9: know the challenges to that. But also you'll know when
- 49:09S9: to bring it in to the conversation. So know your
- 49:12S9: scriptures more than anything else. The second thing is there
- 49:15S9: are some really great resources. And at the risk of
- 49:18S9: a shameless plug, if you go to Embrace the truth.org,
- 49:22S9: we have a read, listen and watch tab where we
- 49:24S9: have a bunch of videos, a lot of articles, and
- 49:28S9: some great audio resources as well for people to get
- 49:31S9: started in understanding not only the veracity of their faith
- 49:35S9: when it comes to the resurrection. Or how can Jesus
- 49:38S9: be God? How does. How does the cross make sense?
- 49:40S9: What about the Trinity? But you'll also find responses to
- 49:44S9: objections like what about science and faith? And hasn't evolution
- 49:47S9: put God out of a job? We have a lot
- 49:49S9: of great stuff there for you. There are wonderful books.
- 49:52S9: There's the case for Christ and the case for Facebook
- 49:55S9: by Lee Strobel. A good friend of mine, J. Warner Wallace,
- 49:59S9: wrote an excellent book called Cold Case Christianity, where he,
- 50:02S9: as a very famous Cold case homicide detective, talks about
- 50:06S9: how you can go about an inquiry into the historical
- 50:09S9: evidence for Jesus. So it's really, really great stuff that's
- 50:12S9: out there. This is an important practical part. Don't be
- 50:15S9: paralyzed by the number of books you need to read. Now,
- 50:18S9: those are some really great entry level books, and you
- 50:20S9: can get more advanced by reading the footnotes in those books.
- 50:24S9: I highly recommend that I'm self-taught. I didn't go to seminary,
- 50:27S9: but those books were really helpful at the beginning stages
- 50:29S9: for me. So the one thing you can do really,
- 50:31S9: really well to prepare is to not say much. Just listen.
- 50:36S9: By asking artful questions, you can just ask. Hey, what
- 50:40S9: do you mean? How do you know? You know if
- 50:42S9: someone has a different worldview than you? If you say, hey,
- 50:44S9: what do you think of Jesus? Let's say it's to
- 50:45S9: a Muslim and they say something. You can say, how
- 50:47S9: do you know that's true about Jesus? Or let's say
- 50:50S9: someone's an atheist and you say, where do you think
- 50:52S9: we came from? Oh, we're just cosmic accidents. Really? What
- 50:55S9: do you mean by accident? Explain more. And then how
- 50:58S9: do you know that? How do you know that this
- 50:59S9: universe wasn't created by a designer? It looks like it
- 51:02S9: was designed. How do you justify its lack of design
- 51:05S9: if there is such an appearance of design, you see
- 51:08S9: what you've done. You've just asked two questions. What do
- 51:10S9: you mean? How do you know? And you can stay
- 51:12S9: in control of a conversation and learn a bunch about
- 51:15S9: the person you're talking to. So you don't need to
- 51:17S9: know everything about their worldview. You just need to know
- 51:19S9: everything about that person in terms of that specific thing.
- 51:22S9: And you can use two questions to get there. And
- 51:25S9: then you can come back and you can prepare again
- 51:27S9: with saying, okay, this is their this is their issue,
- 51:29S9: this is their hang up. And then you read some articles,
- 51:31S9: you read some books, you go to some good websites
- 51:34S9: and you come back prepared and say, hey, I looked
- 51:36S9: into that thing. You said, I saw this. What do
- 51:38S9: you think of this? And there you go. You don't
- 51:40S9: have to be prepared like a theologian and a PhD.
- 51:42S9: Just a little bit of preparation goes a long way.
- 51:45S2: You know, at the heart of what you said, that
- 51:48S2: you didn't say it explicitly, but it's certainly implied that
- 51:51S2: the tone and the the posture of heart is so
- 51:55S2: critical here. You know, we live in such a polarized
- 51:59S2: society where opposing viewpoints are met with such hostility. And
- 52:04S2: even you see people even cutting off relationships where I
- 52:08S2: can't even associate with somebody who believes this about the
- 52:11S2: world because I'm not safe with them. It has gone
- 52:15S2: to a place where I've never seen it in my lifetime.
- 52:18S2: How do we enter into that space with humility, where
- 52:21S2: it's tempting to meet like fire with fire when you
- 52:24S2: feel like somebody is angry and they they want to
- 52:27S2: prove you wrong. How do we maintain that posture of
- 52:30S2: humility that I believe has to be at the heart
- 52:32S2: of every one of these conversations.
- 52:34S9: Absolutely. And this is where the ancient wisdom applies to
- 52:37S9: modern problems, and why the Bible is eternally contemporary to
- 52:42S9: what we're going through and why. I think it's not
- 52:43S9: a book written by a handful of fishermen and some shepherds,
- 52:46S9: but was really guided by the one who made those
- 52:48S9: shepherds and those fishermen. Um, you see Scripture all throughout it.
- 52:51S9: The first thing you notice is that it says that
- 52:53S9: we're all made in the image of God. So the
- 52:55S9: way to combat that is to not contribute to it.
- 52:58S9: When you look at someone and you know deeply that
- 53:01S9: no matter who you are and who they are, they
- 53:04S9: are made in the image of God, that means that
- 53:07S9: their opinions and the value of their opinions might be terrible.
- 53:10S9: They might have, frankly, idiotic opinions or morally horrible opinions,
- 53:14S9: but they are made in God's image. So as a Christian,
- 53:17S9: you are required to divorce the value of someone's idea
- 53:21S9: from the value of the person. And we're at where
- 53:24S9: we're at now because we don't do that. We value.
- 53:26S9: We equate an idea and a person. And so if
- 53:30S9: we hate their idea, we can hate that person. Well,
- 53:32S9: we're not given that luxury as Christians. We just can't
- 53:34S9: do that. Then you go to first Peter 315, which
- 53:37S9: is the theme verse we've been talking about. And one
- 53:40S9: of the things that's important about that is that Peter
- 53:42S9: says that not only do we always we always prepared
- 53:45S9: to make a defense to anyone who asks you for
- 53:47S9: a reason for the hope that is within you. We
- 53:50S9: do journalism with respect. Now, what's interesting is that we
- 53:53S9: are preparing a defense to anyone who asks you for
- 53:58S9: a reason for the hope that is in you. In
- 53:59S9: other words, live a life so hope filled that someone says,
- 54:03S9: what's with you, man? And then respond to them with
- 54:06S9: gentleness and with respect. And then finally, Colossians chapter four,
- 54:09S9: verses five and six, where the apostle Paul says, let
- 54:13S9: your speech be gracious, seasoned with salt, so you may
- 54:15S9: know how you ought to answer each person. He doesn't say,
- 54:18S9: answer each objection, each worldview, and each controversy. He says,
- 54:22S9: answer each person questions. Controversies and worldviews Views don't need answers,
- 54:27S9: but people do. And they use their questions, controversies, and
- 54:30S9: worldviews to find them. If you answer a person and
- 54:34S9: you offer them hope, and you do it with gentleness,
- 54:36S9: with respect, because you see them as made in God's image,
- 54:39S9: you will bring the temperature down and there will be
- 54:42S9: a lot more light than heat.
- 54:43S2: Abdu Murray always, always such a joy to have you
- 54:46S2: on with us. If you want more, he mentioned the website,
- 54:49S2: which has some great, great resources. Some video helps you
- 54:53S2: answer some of the most commonly asked questions. There's a
- 54:56S2: top 20 there. Just text embrace to 805, five, five, 78, 98,
- 55:01S2: text embrace to 805 557898.
- 55:06S1: Tune in whenever you like. Check out the Carl and
- 55:09S1: Crew podcast wherever you like to stream.
- 55:12S3: Well, his story has.
- 55:13S2: Inspired millions upon millions of people. He is one of
- 55:18S2: the most heard speakers in the entire world. Nick Vujicic
- 55:23S2: is with us this morning. The next story. Nick was
- 55:26S2: born with no arms or legs. Doctors offered no explanation.
- 55:30S2: No prognosis. Talk about your early years. You're familiar to
- 55:34S2: many of our listeners, but there are some who aren't
- 55:37S2: familiar with your story at all. And we'll get to
- 55:39S2: see it on the big screen. But tell us a
- 55:41S2: little bit about your background.
- 55:42S10: Yeah. Born in Melbourne, Australia, in 1982, I was born
- 55:45S10: without limbs and there was no medical reason why this
- 55:48S10: has happened in my life. But Mum and Dad took
- 55:52S10: me home and they knew that God had a plan
- 55:54S10: for their son. No one knew what I would be
- 55:56S10: able to do without limbs and obviously I myself. Growing up,
- 56:01S10: I knew I had no limbs, but I didn't think
- 56:03S10: it was such a big deal until I went to school.
- 56:06S10: Being faced with bullying and wondering what kind of hope,
- 56:10S10: plan and future God would ever have for me. He
- 56:13S10: didn't really give me the plan when I asked him
- 56:15S10: for one, and so I started believing that he wasn't
- 56:18S10: real or he was unfair and at age ten, Attempted suicide.
- 56:24S10: Believing that there was no hope or anything really to
- 56:27S10: look forward to in the future and, uh. Age 15
- 56:31S10: John chapter nine changed my life. Seeing a man that
- 56:34S10: was born with his disability being blind, Jesus said it
- 56:38S10: was done so that the word would be revealed through him. And, uh,
- 56:42S10: he sees. What's beautiful is what I realized is the
- 56:45S10: blind man didn't ask Jesus for the plan. He didn't
- 56:48S10: ask him, what are you going to do? Who are you?
- 56:51S10: And then I'll tell you if I trust you. He
- 56:53S10: was still, and he had faith. And I realized, God,
- 56:56S10: if you have a plan for me like the blind
- 56:58S10: man and you heal me, awesome. But I'm not going
- 57:01S10: to wait for the plan anymore. I want your peace.
- 57:04S10: I want your purpose. And I know today that even
- 57:07S10: when I don't get a miracle, perhaps you can still
- 57:09S10: use me to be one.
- 57:11S2: Nick's story. The movie is called No Limbs, No Limits,
- 57:15S2: the Nick V story. You're going to want to see
- 57:17S2: it this weekend. It's a documentary style. There are interviews,
- 57:21S2: obviously with you, but with people who have been instrumental
- 57:24S2: in your life. From your perspective, how did it feel
- 57:27S2: to have your life kind of made into this kind
- 57:31S2: of a film?
- 57:32S10: You know, my mom has been to me, my hero
- 57:36S10: in my life and my father early on in life,
- 57:39S10: but the fact that my mom, brother and sister were
- 57:42S10: interviewed and then were able to show never seen before
- 57:46S10: home footage of me, she had a feeling that this
- 57:48S10: was something that we might want one day. And thank
- 57:52S10: God she did that. It is surreal. You know, I'm 43,
- 57:55S10: so you normally never get a documentary about you generally.
- 57:58S10: And if you do, you're either really old or dead.
- 58:01S10: And so this is an incredible ministry tool as well.
- 58:04S10: It's not just a story. It's understanding that we all
- 58:08S10: go through ups and downs, but God does have a
- 58:10S10: plan for us all. And we also even interviewed Arnold
- 58:15S10: the janitor as an example. He saw me speak in
- 58:18S10: front of my public school as a vice president. He
- 58:21S10: pulled me aside. He said he basically prophesied over me.
- 58:24S10: He said, you are going to be a speaker and
- 58:28S10: you're going to go all around the world and speak.
- 58:31S10: And I said, speak about what? He said, share your story.
- 58:33S10: And I said, I don't have one. And he actually
- 58:36S10: organized my first speech. And people's lives were changed. And
- 58:39S10: that was the the beginnings of the beginnings. And has
- 58:43S10: this been an incredible journey? But it's helping people understand
- 58:46S10: that the bottom line that we're looking for is the
- 58:49S10: peace of God, which then gives us his purpose as well.
- 58:53S10: There's a lot of people going through depression, addiction, and
- 58:56S10: we're really, really raw as well. Ali, in this documentary,
- 59:01S10: we want people to know that, you know, even though
- 59:03S10: you are a Christian, strong in faith, there are always
- 59:07S10: going to be times where things come into your mind
- 59:10S10: and concerns and fear and even depression that you can't
- 59:13S10: just pray away sometimes. And so we really pull back
- 59:17S10: the curtain on everything, encouraging everyone that no matter what
- 59:20S10: you're going through, God knows that he's with you. He'll
- 59:23S10: pull you through. And there's no limits as to what
- 59:25S10: God can do with your broken pieces. If you give
- 59:28S10: those broken pieces a chance in his hands.
- 59:30S2: You know the thing I love about your story, Nick,
- 59:32S2: because there's the human interest angle. And, you know, I
- 59:36S2: saw I don't know if it was 60 minutes or
- 59:38S2: some other one of those type of shows that did
- 59:40S2: a story about you. And there is the, obviously the
- 59:43S2: personal resolve, the depth of character, the strength, the grit
- 59:47S2: that it takes to continue to push forward and to
- 59:50S2: achieve all of the things that you have achieved in
- 59:53S2: your life. But you are unapologetically about the gospel as
- 59:58S2: being the thing that we all need those with limbs,
- 1:00:01S2: those without that, that is the deepest need of every
- 1:00:04S2: person is not a healthy body, as the world will
- 1:00:08S2: look at it, but a saved soul. Right.
- 1:00:10S10: Amen. There's not a greater disability than being a lost
- 1:00:14S10: soul And sin and death are the biggest challenges that
- 1:00:19S10: any human being is going to have. And then if
- 1:00:22S10: we do not have that peace and we do not
- 1:00:24S10: have that knowledge of eternity and God's love for us,
- 1:00:28S10: there's always going to be this crippling fear of what
- 1:00:31S10: happens when I'm gone. And everyone, you know then goes
- 1:00:34S10: to their own kind of philosophies of, well, you know,
- 1:00:38S10: if you're good, you do good. Good's going to happen.
- 1:00:41S10: That's not true. And what do you tell someone who's
- 1:00:43S10: forced into prostitution, sold by their own mother for $700
- 1:00:47S10: for four years old? What's the hope there? And so
- 1:00:50S10: I've actually seen transformed, rescued, healed, redeemed sex slaves to
- 1:00:57S10: the point where they find God. Their soul is saved,
- 1:01:00S10: their heart is healed, their mind is renewed. They find
- 1:01:03S10: a job. They save up money to go rescue another slave.
- 1:01:07S10: And so the hope is real. And you know when
- 1:01:10S10: you have it.
- 1:01:11S2: What kind of feedback have you gotten so far from
- 1:01:14S2: people who have gotten the preview of the film.
- 1:01:17S10: There's 2000 people that have actually seen it up until
- 1:01:20S10: this point. Different variations. But we just were at Cebu.
- 1:01:24S10: We were at a red carpet last week and everyone's quite,
- 1:01:29S10: quite moved. What I love about this film is that
- 1:01:33S10: there was a young man who came up to me
- 1:01:35S10: after watching it, and he said, thank you for how
- 1:01:39S10: you told the story of what God did through you
- 1:01:43S10: and for you, without making you the hero of the
- 1:01:48S10: story or someone to really look up to. Wow, you
- 1:01:52S10: really glorified God. He was. He was 17 or 18
- 1:01:55S10: years old and he said, I love that because you
- 1:01:58S10: were always giving glory back to God. And in the end,
- 1:02:01S10: it's not about you. And that's the point. We want
- 1:02:04S10: everyone to know that it's not just a story. It's
- 1:02:07S10: about all of our stories. Your history is his story,
- 1:02:11S10: and it's the journey of our hearts and our minds
- 1:02:14S10: along the way, where every day we have to choose. God,
- 1:02:18S10: I trust you one day at a time.
- 1:02:20S2: Yeah. This story has everything. I mean, it's overcoming adversity.
- 1:02:24S2: It's dealing with your deepest brokenness. It's trying to find
- 1:02:29S2: out what does God want me to do with my life?
- 1:02:32S2: This powerful, powerful ministry. No limbs, no limits. The story film.
- 1:02:38S2: I want to encourage you to check it out this weekend,
- 1:02:40S2: wherever you can find a closest theater. We've got that
- 1:02:43S2: for you. In addition to some other resources, just text
- 1:02:46S2: Nick to 805 557898. Just text Nick 805 557898.
- 1:02:55S11: Hey, this is Carl with Carl and crew, and I'm
- 1:02:57S11: so grateful that you listened to this show cast. Thank
- 1:03:00S11: you mostly for being part of the boom crew as
- 1:03:02S11: we help you take your next step with Jesus, you're
- 1:03:05S11: a huge encouragement to us. We'll be here again live
- 1:03:08S11: every weekday morning from 5 to 9 a.m.. Godspeed.