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The Late Debate | 3 June · The Late Debate

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Lately.
• 0:02
  Speaker 2: Welcome to the Late Debate.
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us on the Late Debate.
• 0:08
  Speaker 3: I'm James Macpherson with Caleb Bond and freyer Leitch coming
• 0:11
  Speaker 3: up tonight. Chess isn't generally regarded as a great spectator sport,
• 0:15
  Speaker 3: but you may rethink that when you see the world
• 0:18
  Speaker 3: number one lose.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: And his reaction will show you a little later.
• 0:22
  Speaker 3: Plus, when we look at what's making news tomorrow, Tasmanian
• 0:25
  Speaker 3: politicians reject a massive pay right, that's right, you heard
• 0:28
  Speaker 3: me correctly, they rejected.
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: A massive pay rise.
• 0:31
  Speaker 3: And the Australian newspaper reveals the extraordinary amount the federal
• 0:36
  Speaker 3: government is spending on climate change every single year. I
• 0:39
  Speaker 3: promise you it's eye watering. We'll get to all of
• 0:42
  Speaker 3: that shortly, but first, is it okay for a man
• 0:45
  Speaker 3: to refuse to shake hands with a woman because well
• 0:49
  Speaker 3: she's a woman. Take a look at what happened Sunday
• 0:51
  Speaker 3: night after the Champions League game in Europe when CBS
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: Sports welcomed UFC fighter Kabib Nugomv to their panel. Now,
• 1:02
  Speaker 3: he shakes hands with all the male panel members, but
• 1:05
  Speaker 3: when the only female broadcaster extends her hand, well, take
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: a look.
• 1:11
  Speaker 4: Wow, how are you agree?
• 1:18
  Speaker 3: Welcome to the show, apologize, Thank you so much for
• 1:21
  Speaker 3: b in the UFC fights.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: It is a pleasure to have you.
• 1:24
  Speaker 5: We didn't know you were.
• 1:24
  Speaker 3: Here now could be visit about Muslim So refusing to
• 1:30
  Speaker 3: shake a woman's hand is part of his religion.
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: Here's the question. Was he rude or was he principled
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: a man of faith standing for the tenets of his religion.
• 1:40
  Speaker 6: Caleb Well, I mean he is entitled to his religion,
• 1:43
  Speaker 6: as we are all entitled to whatever religion we may
• 1:45
  Speaker 6: or may not ascribe to. But when you're on Western soil,
• 1:49
  Speaker 6: I think you have to play by Western rules.
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: I mean, I wouldn't go to a.
• 1:54
  Speaker 6: Majority Muslim country and begin to tell them how they
• 1:58
  Speaker 6: should behave, and I would adhere to whatever expectations they
• 2:02
  Speaker 6: had of me while I was there, because they would
• 2:04
  Speaker 6: probably expect that while I'm there, I would not shake
• 2:07
  Speaker 6: a woman's hand, And I'll say, that's fine, that's your culture.
• 2:10
  Speaker 6: I'm in your country, so I'm not going to do it.
• 2:13
  Speaker 6: I disagree with that, but I'm not going to do it.
• 2:16
  Speaker 6: And by the same token, if you come to our countries,
• 2:19
  Speaker 6: you should also have to adhere by our standards, and
• 2:22
  Speaker 6: our standards are that women are equal to men. The
• 2:25
  Speaker 6: idea that you cannot shake a woman's hand is rooted
• 2:30
  Speaker 6: in misogyny, and we in the West say that is
• 2:32
  Speaker 6: a bad thing.
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: So, yes, you're free to practice your religion.
• 2:35
  Speaker 6: But when it comes to fundamental standards and values that
• 2:39
  Speaker 6: we hold, Dear, everyone should be held to the same standard,
• 2:42
  Speaker 6: regardless of religion or creed or anything else.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: What do you reckon?
• 2:46
  Speaker 7: I mean, I totally understand what you're saying, Caleb, and
• 2:50
  Speaker 7: there definitely are aspects of fundamentalist Islam that are discriminatory
• 2:55
  Speaker 7: towards women. Unequal access to divorce, unequal shares in inheritance,
• 3:00
  Speaker 7: a woman's testimony is worth less than a man's. There
• 3:03
  Speaker 7: are plenty of examples. But I do think in this instance,
• 3:07
  Speaker 7: one of the rules of Western soil is that we
• 3:10
  Speaker 7: are a pluralist civilization. You can practice your religion and
• 3:14
  Speaker 7: you should be free to practice that religion, and so
• 3:18
  Speaker 7: I think in this instance there are plenty of aspects
• 3:21
  Speaker 7: of fundamentalist Islam that are genuinely sexist. I don't know
• 3:25
  Speaker 7: if this necessarily was one, and I would also note
• 3:28
  Speaker 7: that Orthodox Jews also don't shake the hands women. I
• 3:32
  Speaker 7: don't think that's rooted in misogyny, so I would say
• 3:35
  Speaker 7: it was awkward. It's awkward that he then embraced the
• 3:38
  Speaker 7: other men. But like I mean, he should be free
• 3:41
  Speaker 7: to practice his religion rude. I don't think it was rude.
• 3:45
  Speaker 7: I mean, I don't think he was trying to make
• 3:47
  Speaker 7: her feel uncomfortable. I think this is his religion. And
• 3:50
  Speaker 7: if you want to have a conversation around sexism in
• 3:53
  Speaker 7: fundamentalist Islam, that's a valid conversation to have. But in
• 3:57
  Speaker 7: this instance, he's just practicing his religion. We would ask
• 4:00
  Speaker 7: an orthodox doe to shake a woman's hand, so why
• 4:02
  Speaker 7: are we asking?
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't.
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: I would.
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  Speaker 6: I don't care what religion you're a part of. If
• 4:06
  Speaker 6: you're on Western soil, you obey by the rules that
• 4:08
  Speaker 6: we have, which is that we believe women are equal
• 4:11
  Speaker 6: to men.
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: What's wrong with that? But what about what others?
• 4:13
  Speaker 5: That you should be able to practice your religion freely?
• 4:16
  Speaker 6: Okay, But at what point does practicing your religion freely
• 4:19
  Speaker 6: then impinge upon the majority's rights and freedoms?
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: I have long held don't have a right to have
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: someone shake your hand.
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: That's okay, sure.
• 4:27
  Speaker 6: Sure, But if the reason that someone is saying they
• 4:29
  Speaker 6: don't want to shake your hand is because of their religion,
• 4:32
  Speaker 6: and their religion dictates that you can't shake a woman's hand,
• 4:35
  Speaker 6: you can't tell me that that's not sexist and in
• 4:38
  Speaker 6: some way rooted in misogyny. For what reason can you
• 4:41
  Speaker 6: not shake a woman's hand?
• 4:42
  Speaker 7: But plenty of people have sexist and misogynist views. They're
• 4:46
  Speaker 7: not outlawed, they're not banned. You might not like it,
• 4:48
  Speaker 7: but I still defend it right religion.
• 4:50
  Speaker 6: I never said that it should be in law, but
• 4:52
  Speaker 6: I'm saying we should call it out and say it's wrong.
• 4:54
  Speaker 6: I mean, you can say something misogynistic or sexist on air,
• 4:58
  Speaker 6: and then I can say that's a lot of odswallop.
• 5:00
  Speaker 6: That's how this works. That's what we're doing with him there. Yes,
• 5:03
  Speaker 6: he's free to practice his religion. But if we say
• 5:06
  Speaker 6: that women are equal, then I would expect to see
• 5:09
  Speaker 6: people adhere to that. And if they don't want to
• 5:12
  Speaker 6: adhere to that, why are you in my country?
• 5:14
  Speaker 3: Well, I agree that he's free to practice his religion.
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: That's a pluralistic society, as you pointed out, But I
• 5:19
  Speaker 3: don't think that allowing people to practice their religion, demands
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: that we approve of how they practice their religion, and
• 5:25
  Speaker 3: I think he's been rightly condemned. My question is where
• 5:28
  Speaker 3: are the feminists calling this out? This is the bigotry
• 5:30
  Speaker 3: of low expectations. If the Catholics don't allow women to
• 5:35
  Speaker 3: be priests, then everyone is quick to slam Catholicism as
• 5:39
  Speaker 3: a misogynistic religion. But if a Muslim Man refuses to
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: take the hand of a woman who extends it in
• 5:44
  Speaker 3: friendship because I can't touch a woman, well that somehow
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: gets a free pass. It's a bigotry of low expectations,
• 5:50
  Speaker 3: where people expect and allow less from I think from
• 5:54
  Speaker 3: the religion of Islam than they do for other religions.
• 5:56
  Speaker 7: Well yeah, I mean imagine if Popo Leo refused to
• 6:00
  Speaker 7: the hands of women, there would be global outrage, like
• 6:03
  Speaker 7: a complete convulsion and meltdown in the West. So yeah,
• 6:07
  Speaker 7: it is interesting to note the silence from some quarters.
• 6:10
  Speaker 6: I do wonder where our good mate Clementine Ford is.
• 6:13
  Speaker 6: Clementine Ford's Instagram and you can have an Instagram story
• 6:17
  Speaker 6: highlight like a collection of stories that she's actually.
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: Got one dedicated to me.
• 6:21
  Speaker 6: So I get a guernsey. But oh mate, kebeb doesn't
• 6:24
  Speaker 6: get one. I mean, come on, Clementine, surely it's a
• 6:27
  Speaker 6: fair go here, isn't it. Now.
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: Of course, you may be aware.
• 6:30
  Speaker 6: That it has been Reconciliation Week leading up to today. Today,
• 6:33
  Speaker 6: June the third is the last day of Reconciliation Week.
• 6:37
  Speaker 6: They don't adhere to general weeks on the calendar, it
• 6:39
  Speaker 6: would seem, but it runs from I think it's the
• 6:41
  Speaker 6: twenty sixth or the twenty seventh.
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: Of May every year through to the third of June.
• 6:46
  Speaker 6: But I think it's gone a little bit too far
• 6:48
  Speaker 6: in this case. And I have no problem in saying
• 6:51
  Speaker 6: that as a country, of course, we should all strive
• 6:53
  Speaker 6: towards reconciliation. And let's not forget the definition of the
• 6:57
  Speaker 6: word reconciliation assumes that you reckon style, which means you
• 7:01
  Speaker 6: come together and you settle your differences and you all
• 7:04
  Speaker 6: move forward as one.
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: I think that is a great thing.
• 7:07
  Speaker 6: That we should all be working towards. But that is
• 7:10
  Speaker 6: not what they mean when they talk about reconciliation. The activists,
• 7:13
  Speaker 6: of course mean that we should divide people, and that's
• 7:16
  Speaker 6: exactly what North Kottai has been doing. Down in Victoria
• 7:20
  Speaker 6: where they've taken it one step over the mark, I think,
• 7:23
  Speaker 6: and have put a sign out the front of the
• 7:25
  Speaker 6: school which you will be able to see on the
• 7:27
  Speaker 6: screen here, which says sorry, and of course Sorry day
• 7:31
  Speaker 6: marks the day that we apologized for the stolen generations,
• 7:34
  Speaker 6: or Kevin radd apologized for the stolen generations, and henceforth
• 7:38
  Speaker 6: we must always be sorry for everything that was done
• 7:41
  Speaker 6: in this country, apparently including settling it etc. We sent
• 7:45
  Speaker 6: our cameras down this afternoon to take a look at
• 7:48
  Speaker 6: this sign out the front, which, of course is it
• 7:50
  Speaker 6: right in front of the flag poles. So as the
• 7:52
  Speaker 6: kids arrive at school with the Australian flag there, they
• 7:57
  Speaker 6: are made to feel like they have to be sorry
• 7:58
  Speaker 6: for something. And once the camera's turned up, the sorry
• 8:02
  Speaker 6: sign was taken away. Now we don't know whether it
• 8:05
  Speaker 6: was taken away because our cameras turned up or because
• 8:07
  Speaker 6: today was the last day of Sorry Day.
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: That would seem convenient that it.
• 8:11
  Speaker 6: Was taken in at precisely the time our cameras arrived.
• 8:15
  Speaker 6: We did contact North kot High for comment and they
• 8:17
  Speaker 6: said no comment on the phone. But this idea, I mean,
• 8:21
  Speaker 6: you know you're a kid going to school. I mean,
• 8:23
  Speaker 6: the teenagers should admit. It's not like they're the little kids,
• 8:26
  Speaker 6: but this idea is being put into their heads that
• 8:30
  Speaker 6: they must feel guilty for things that other people may
• 8:33
  Speaker 6: or may not have done generations ago. I mean, I
• 8:37
  Speaker 6: wonder if you're saying, we obviously have a great Margrant story.
• 8:40
  Speaker 6: This is that's from last year. By the way, they've
• 8:42
  Speaker 6: done this multiple years in a row. Now that photo,
• 8:44
  Speaker 6: we have a great Margaret story in this country which
• 8:46
  Speaker 6: we celebrate even though they're living on stolen land.
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure how you marry those two up.
• 8:51
  Speaker 6: But if you're an Indian kid going to school at
• 8:53
  Speaker 6: North kot High now you know you weren't involved in
• 8:56
  Speaker 6: the first fleet in any way, and you have to
• 8:58
  Speaker 6: feel sorry for what someone else?
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: Do you? I mean, for Heaven's sake.
• 9:02
  Speaker 6: Sure, reconciliation, but why do we keep telling people they
• 9:05
  Speaker 6: must feel guilty for what has been well?
• 9:07
  Speaker 3: I mean, the sign begs a number of questions. Right, firstly,
• 9:10
  Speaker 3: sorry for what, Second, sorry on behalf of whom?
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: And third sorry to who exactly?
• 9:17
  Speaker 3: And this is counterproductive because you're teaching kids two things
• 9:20
  Speaker 3: that kids should not be taught. Number one, you're teaching
• 9:23
  Speaker 3: them collective guilt, and there's nothing worse than collective guilt
• 9:26
  Speaker 3: that you are guilty of the sins of your father
• 9:29
  Speaker 3: and his father and his father. Western civilization moved away
• 9:32
  Speaker 3: from that, and that's what helped Western civilization become great.
• 9:36
  Speaker 3: We rejected the idea of collective guilt. And the second
• 9:39
  Speaker 3: thing they're teaching kids through gestures like this is to
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: make empty, meaningless gestures, as if somehow they are accomplishing
• 9:48
  Speaker 3: something quite profound. Sticking a sorry sign on the grass
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: out the front in front of the flag pole and
• 9:53
  Speaker 3: then hurriedly removing it when cameras turn up does nothing
• 9:56
  Speaker 3: to change a single indigenous life. Somehow, kids are taught
• 10:01
  Speaker 3: that if you make these empty gestures, you're making a difference.
• 10:05
  Speaker 3: And I think it's a dangerous thing to teach young people.
• 10:07
  Speaker 3: That's not how you change the world. It's not how
• 10:09
  Speaker 3: you make a difference. And collective guilt, as I said,
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: is an evil that I thought we'd move beyond.
• 10:15
  Speaker 7: Yeah, look, it's all performative activism. I see this among
• 10:18
  Speaker 7: my friends all well, most of them aren't really my friends,
• 10:21
  Speaker 7: but I see this among my age group quite a bit.
• 10:24
  Speaker 7: People will have their little bios on Instagram and instead
• 10:28
  Speaker 7: of saying they're from Sydney, they'll say Eora on stolen
• 10:32
  Speaker 7: Land or Gadigul or num And it's just like, what
• 10:37
  Speaker 7: are you actually accomplishing here?
• 10:40
  Speaker 5: It really doesn't make any sense.
• 10:42
  Speaker 7: And I also think just the bombarding young people with
• 10:47
  Speaker 7: guilt about something they can't control and they had.
• 10:50
  Speaker 5: No part of. I mean, what is this doing?
• 10:53
  Speaker 7: How is this helping our nation move forward towards reconciliation?
• 10:57
  Speaker 7: As you say, Caleb, who will reconciling here? It doesn't
• 11:01
  Speaker 7: make any sense.
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: As part of their reconciliation plan at the school, they
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: had students watch an eight minute video of the former
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: police chief make a groveling apology for the stolen generations,
• 11:15
  Speaker 3: and so they had kids sit in class and watch
• 11:17
  Speaker 3: that eight minute video. I'm just not sure how that
• 11:20
  Speaker 3: brings people together when you're continually pushing one side of
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: the story, and that is the wrongs that were done
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: years ago that these young people have nothing to do with.
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: And as you said, many of these kids in a
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: city Melbourne probably weren't even born in this country as immigrants.
• 11:38
  Speaker 6: I think we've reached a point now where we need
• 11:40
  Speaker 6: to be honest about what this is really all about,
• 11:43
  Speaker 6: and it's not about reconciliation. Reconciliation is a misnomer.
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: Continually.
• 11:48
  Speaker 6: What is pushed is an US and them idea that
• 11:52
  Speaker 6: you the white man, and then everyone else who's come
• 11:55
  Speaker 6: after the white man has committed terrible atrocity, atrocities and
• 11:59
  Speaker 6: you must home for them forever. I mean, there is
• 12:02
  Speaker 6: no end timeline, seemingly to the point at which we
• 12:05
  Speaker 6: reach reconciliation, because the activists don't really want to reach reconciliation.
• 12:10
  Speaker 6: They want an admission that the settlement of Australia was wrong.
• 12:15
  Speaker 6: And once you admit that the settlement of Australia was wrong,
• 12:19
  Speaker 6: you open yourself up to reparations and land back and
• 12:23
  Speaker 6: all these other things. That is the ultimate end goal.
• 12:26
  Speaker 6: It's not, as I said before, that the dictionary definition
• 12:29
  Speaker 6: of reconciliation to reconcile, to come together and settle your differences,
• 12:33
  Speaker 6: is not the end aim of this. And does anyone
• 12:36
  Speaker 6: talk about the fact that when the British came out here,
• 12:39
  Speaker 6: that the people who were sent out were charged to
• 12:42
  Speaker 6: treat Aboriginal people as British subjects. I mean, I have
• 12:46
  Speaker 6: at home and South Australia is a free setless state,
• 12:48
  Speaker 6: so it's slightly different to the convict states. But I
• 12:51
  Speaker 6: have the Proclamation of South Australia on my wall at home.
• 12:54
  Speaker 6: I look at it every morning when I have a
• 12:56
  Speaker 6: cup of coffee, and it says explicitly on there that
• 13:00
  Speaker 6: the people, the Aboriginal people who were found in South
• 13:02
  Speaker 6: Australia were to be treated as British subjects as though
• 13:06
  Speaker 6: they were any other person who was moving to settle
• 13:09
  Speaker 6: South Australia. So there was no intent for a genocide,
• 13:12
  Speaker 6: there was no intent to kill people. They were sent
• 13:15
  Speaker 6: out he to settle peacefully. Do you reckon the kids
• 13:18
  Speaker 6: are being told about that? No, of course not, because
• 13:21
  Speaker 6: it's not about reconciliation, it's about division.
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: They should call it division well.
• 13:25
  Speaker 7: And there's no doubt that there definitely was discrimination against
• 13:29
  Speaker 7: Indigenous people and that was absolutely terrible and the repercussions
• 13:33
  Speaker 7: are probably still being felt in communities today. But that
• 13:36
  Speaker 7: doesn't mean we continually have to live in this guilt
• 13:39
  Speaker 7: of things we can't change. Let's focus on practical ways
• 13:42
  Speaker 7: to move forward. At another kindergarten in Victoria, a local
• 13:46
  Speaker 7: council has come under fire for a pamphlet promoting this kindergarten.
• 13:52
  Speaker 7: On the pamphlet, proudly on the front was displayed the
• 13:57
  Speaker 7: prime flag, the Indigenous flag, the Torres Strait Island flag,
• 14:02
  Speaker 7: but notably missing was the Australian flag. One ratepayer said,
• 14:09
  Speaker 7: now it appears the council's kindergarten acknowledges the gay, Aboriginal
• 14:14
  Speaker 7: and Torres Strait Islander communities, as evidenced by eliminating the
• 14:18
  Speaker 7: Australian flag, which represents all of us from the official paperwork.
• 14:23
  Speaker 7: Does that mean the rest of us are exempt from rates?
• 14:26
  Speaker 7: I mean, I think that's a pretty fair question. I
• 14:28
  Speaker 7: understand presenting other symbols under certain circumstances, but removing the
• 14:34
  Speaker 7: Australian flag seems like a deliberate political point to I
• 14:40
  Speaker 7: don't know, eraise our national identity.
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: It would seem fairly deliberate at the Council's job to
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: collect rubbish, not distribute it. The mayor, Anthony Marsh, he
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: said he was appalled by this brochure and he's investigating,
• 14:53
  Speaker 3: and maybe he is.
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: I'll take him at his word.
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: However, he has previously made a big deal about the
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: fact that the council is flying the Pride flag out
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: front of the chambers for International Day against Homophobia and
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: every other sort of phobia. So he certainly committed to
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: pushing those sorts of agendas. Back in twenty twenty three,
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: there's an interesting incident at this very council where a
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: female council member objected to the fact that they were
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: flying a Pride flag and she was sent for personal
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: development and banned from speaking to other council staff until
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: she had finished that re education. So you know, the
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: mayor says, oh, that he's appalled and he's investigating. But
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: this is a council that has been pushing the LGBTQ agenda.
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: And if you want to push the agenda, that's fine.
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: The issue is council members are paid by rate payers
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: to do the normal sorts of things that councils would do,
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: not to push different ideologies, and certainly not on three
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: and four year olds. I would say this, If Anthony
• 16:02
  Speaker 3: Marsh the mayor, is appalled by this brochure that's gone
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: out on the council dime, and he's investigating to find
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: out how it happened, will we ever be made aware
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: of who did this and who was promoting this to kindikits.
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: Well, I should hope.
• 16:16
  Speaker 6: So. I do find it curious that you say councils
• 16:18
  Speaker 6: are meant to collect rubbish, not distributed. I would say
• 16:20
  Speaker 6: councils are probably some of the greatest distributors of rubbish
• 16:24
  Speaker 6: in this country and point and to be fair to
• 16:27
  Speaker 6: the council, and I mean the elected members of the council,
• 16:29
  Speaker 6: none of them would have had any idea that this
• 16:31
  Speaker 6: leaflet was being put together. It's been done by a
• 16:33
  Speaker 6: staff member who's obviously got some responsibility for the kindergarten.
• 16:38
  Speaker 6: And then when the elected members have been made aware
• 16:40
  Speaker 6: of it that the mayor has come out said he
• 16:41
  Speaker 6: will do something about it. So good on him, and
• 16:43
  Speaker 6: let's hope all of that is done. But I can't
• 16:45
  Speaker 6: get my head around why exactly those flags were there
• 16:49
  Speaker 6: in the first any of them, to be perfectly honest,
• 16:51
  Speaker 6: I mean, if you're selling a kindergarten or places in
• 16:55
  Speaker 6: the kindergarten, I mean I'm not looking at the front
• 16:58
  Speaker 6: of it, not that I have children in that position,
• 17:00
  Speaker 6: I wouldn't be looking at the front of the leaflet
• 17:03
  Speaker 6: for the kindergarten.
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: Where's the flag?
• 17:05
  Speaker 6: I can only send my kid here if it's got
• 17:07
  Speaker 6: a flag on the front. I mean, I want to
• 17:09
  Speaker 6: open the thing up and find out that they're going
• 17:11
  Speaker 6: to do a good job.
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: For my kid. I don't particularly give a toss about
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: any flags.
• 17:16
  Speaker 6: So you then have to say, Okay, if you've made
• 17:18
  Speaker 6: a conscious decision to put some flags on the front,
• 17:21
  Speaker 6: you must have done it for a reason. You've not
• 17:23
  Speaker 6: put the Australian flag there, so you know, we'll read
• 17:26
  Speaker 6: into that whatever you want.
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: But you have deliberately put the Pride flag, the Aboriginal
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: flag in the Torres Straight Islander flag.
• 17:32
  Speaker 6: So is the suggestion that we are an inclusive place,
• 17:35
  Speaker 6: and we are inclusive of LGBTIQA plus and Aboriginal and
• 17:40
  Speaker 6: Torros Straight Island are people.
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: They're three to five year olds.
• 17:43
  Speaker 6: I mean, it's not relevant. It's completely irrelevant. Certainly on
• 17:47
  Speaker 6: the point of the Pride flag. It's completely irrelevant because
• 17:50
  Speaker 6: they're three to five years old. Is it a message
• 17:52
  Speaker 6: that that's what we're going to teach them about?
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: I don't know. Perhaps it expands upon that. But if
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: the purpose.
• 17:57
  Speaker 6: Of having the Aboriginal and the Torys Straight Islander flag
• 17:59
  Speaker 6: is to say that we are accepting, tolerant of indigenous people.
• 18:03
  Speaker 6: Where's the Indian flag and the Pakistani flag and the
• 18:06
  Speaker 6: Schlangan flag and the Bangladeshi flag and the Argentinian flag?
• 18:10
  Speaker 6: I mean, is this to say that this kindergarten is
• 18:13
  Speaker 6: exclusive of Argentinian children, that it will discriminate against them
• 18:17
  Speaker 6: if their parents dare to enroll them there? What is
• 18:20
  Speaker 6: the point of the flags being there in the first place,
• 18:24
  Speaker 6: That's the bit I would like to understand, unless they're trying.
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: To make some weird political point. But again, what you
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: got to do with three to five.
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: Year olds having listened to you speak there, Maybe we
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: should be thanking whoever designed this brochure for designing it
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: in the way they did, because it's an alert to
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: all parents. If you said you said you are Kady
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: in the Mornington Peninsula, this is the kind of stuff
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: they're going to think is appropriate for three to four
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: year olds.
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: After October seven, there was a lot of anti Israel
• 18:51
  Speaker 3: sentiment that went into anti semitism, just outright and ground
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: zero for that were universities, Sydney University not least among them.
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: For two months there was a permanent pro Palestinian encampment
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: on the campus that meant Jewish students feared going to class.
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: Many of them stayed home rather than going to lectures
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: because they felt unsafe. So the university has spent four
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: hundred and forty one thousand dollars reviewing how they could
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: do things differently to combat anti Semitism. Gee, for half
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: a million dollars, you'd think, wow, what could we do?
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: Maybe don't allow an encampment on the student grounds stopping
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: students from getting to class. Anyway, They've come up with
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: five revised policies, one of which is actually a pretty
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: good idea. They've decided to end what's commonly known as
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: lecture bashing.
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: That's the practice, and I'll get Freyer.
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: To explain it to us in a moment, because you're
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: more recently out of university than i am.
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: Freyer.
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: But this is the practice of before or after a lecture.
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: The lecture up gives an open forum to a student
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: to then make a political speech on all manner of
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: things not necessarily related to the subjects. Students have paid
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: to sit in that lecture theater and learn. And many
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: of these student bashings or lecture bashings have been quite provocative.
• 20:14
  Speaker 7: Yeah, exactly, And that's kind of what happens these socialist activists.
• 20:18
  Speaker 7: It's always the same ten or fifteen socialists who come
• 20:22
  Speaker 7: into these lectures and basically yell at you about whatever
• 20:25
  Speaker 7: social justice cause is of the day. But obviously last
• 20:29
  Speaker 7: eighteen months it's all been about demonizing Israel, and they
• 20:32
  Speaker 7: will come into your lecture theater whether or not the
• 20:36
  Speaker 7: lecturer wants them to. In fact, check out this case
• 20:40
  Speaker 7: where the lecturer did not want these protests to come in,
• 20:44
  Speaker 7: yet they came in. Anyway, if you're opposed to the
• 20:48
  Speaker 7: genocide in Palestine, you know there's a ralliant Thursday one PIO.
• 20:52
  Speaker 6: You can come along to that one.
• 21:03
  Speaker 7: Instead of letting these absolute idiots yell at that class
• 21:07
  Speaker 7: about pro Palestinian rallies, the guy the lecturer just started
• 21:11
  Speaker 7: playing Beyond Sy to shut them up. I think that's
• 21:13
  Speaker 7: an absolutely amazing response, really, But there is a deeper
• 21:18
  Speaker 7: problem here that I don't think banning lecture bashing is
• 21:22
  Speaker 7: really going to solve, and that is that our universities
• 21:25
  Speaker 7: have been captured by radical, radical activists. I went back
• 21:31
  Speaker 7: to my alma mater a couple of weeks ago for
• 21:34
  Speaker 7: an event where people got to put on VR headsets
• 21:39
  Speaker 7: that depict October seven, and as I was leaving the event,
• 21:42
  Speaker 7: this is the greeting I got from some very tolerant
• 21:46
  Speaker 7: left wing activists.
• 21:49
  Speaker 5: Shime on you, Oh it's you mine. Wow wow wow wow.
• 22:02
  Speaker 7: And then they proceeded to follow me and my dad.
• 22:06
  Speaker 5: It was just insane.
• 22:07
  Speaker 7: They were waiting out there for the full duration of
• 22:10
  Speaker 7: the event, like three hours. I mean, the first thing
• 22:13
  Speaker 7: we learn is none of these people have jobs or
• 22:15
  Speaker 7: really care about their studies, because they have all the
• 22:17
  Speaker 7: time in the world to harass people.
• 22:20
  Speaker 5: But it is just crazy, and so I don't know
• 22:23
  Speaker 5: what it will take.
• 22:23
  Speaker 7: For the university to truly root out all these anti
• 22:27
  Speaker 7: Semitic activists, but it seriously is ground zero for the
• 22:30
  Speaker 7: general collapse in social fabric that we're witnessing across the country.
• 22:35
  Speaker 6: I just find the whole concept rather bizarre. I mean,
• 22:38
  Speaker 6: putting aside the content of what they're saying. I mean,
• 22:41
  Speaker 6: they could be talking about the regulation of farm equipment
• 22:43
  Speaker 6: in US bigger Stan for all I care. Who gives
• 22:46
  Speaker 6: you the right to stand up in front of a
• 22:49
  Speaker 6: captured audience, I mean, talk about whatever your pet project is.
• 22:53
  Speaker 6: I mean they're there to learn, presumably that's what they
• 22:56
  Speaker 6: are paying fees for. That's what the taxpayer for many
• 23:00
  Speaker 6: of these cases is paying their fees upfront in terms
• 23:03
  Speaker 6: of hex and then they'll pay it back later. For
• 23:06
  Speaker 6: of course, the taxpayer also gives other significant funding to universities,
• 23:10
  Speaker 6: and we do that because we expect that students will
• 23:12
  Speaker 6: be churned out on the other side with skills that
• 23:15
  Speaker 6: will be helpful to this nation and instead they're going
• 23:18
  Speaker 6: off to UNI.
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: And the unie says, yeah, it's all.
• 23:21
  Speaker 6: Right, you can have the soapbox, stand up and talk
• 23:23
  Speaker 6: about whatever the hell you want.
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: Well, that's not what it's for.
• 23:26
  Speaker 6: I understand that unis of places should be places of
• 23:30
  Speaker 6: free speech and debate, and nothing should be off the table.
• 23:33
  Speaker 6: It's all up for discussion, but not when the lecture
• 23:36
  Speaker 6: is going on.
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: I mean, if you want to stand on the front.
• 23:39
  Speaker 6: Lawn and bleed about whatever your issue is, that's fine.
• 23:43
  Speaker 6: That's what the town square is about. But the town
• 23:45
  Speaker 6: square doesn't extend into a captive audience. You have a
• 23:50
  Speaker 6: right to say what you want to say, but you
• 23:52
  Speaker 6: don't have a right to a captive audience that can't
• 23:55
  Speaker 6: just get up and walk out.
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: So Mark Scott, the Vice Chancell's made a good decision
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: on this bat and the practice. But of course the
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: student Representative Council they're up in arms saying it impinges
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: on the long history of political debate at Sydney University,
• 24:08
  Speaker 3: which is kind of ironic since it was only a
• 24:10
  Speaker 3: few weeks ago that the student union held a meeting
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: to debate the definition of anti Semitism, and when a
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: Jew got up to speak about it, a huge number
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: of people in the room all turned their backs on
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: the speaker at the student Union or Representative Council, So
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: I'm not sure how their commitment to political debate is
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: reflected in that Caleb.
• 24:31
  Speaker 6: It's all good when it goes your way, speaking of
• 24:33
  Speaker 6: political debate and matters of religion and free speech. A
• 24:37
  Speaker 6: shocking case out of the UK overnight, we're bloken by
• 24:40
  Speaker 6: the name of Hamid Koskin has been convicted found guilty
• 24:45
  Speaker 6: of a religiously aggravated public order offense. This is blasphemy
• 24:51
  Speaker 6: laws by any other name.
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: Now. His offense was to back.
• 24:55
  Speaker 6: In February, he is from Turkey himself, to go out
• 24:58
  Speaker 6: the front of the Twokish embassy and burn a copy
• 25:02
  Speaker 6: of the Quran which he was waving around and saying
• 25:05
  Speaker 6: f Islam, Islam is a religion of terrorism, and Quran
• 25:09
  Speaker 6: is burning. He was protesting against President Erduan in Turkey,
• 25:13
  Speaker 6: who he says is running.
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: An Islamist regime.
• 25:17
  Speaker 6: He was attacked by another man in the process of
• 25:19
  Speaker 6: staging this protest, but he was then arrested, taken off,
• 25:25
  Speaker 6: gets his day in court, and he's told the offense
• 25:28
  Speaker 6: is not that he sets something on fire in a
• 25:30
  Speaker 6: public place, and I would understand that we don't want
• 25:33
  Speaker 6: people going around starting fires in public places, but it
• 25:37
  Speaker 6: was specifically aggravated motivated by religion. And the judge in
• 25:43
  Speaker 6: fact said in this case that one of the aggravating
• 25:46
  Speaker 6: circumstances was not just that he had a hatred of Islam,
• 25:50
  Speaker 6: but by extension, that means that he has a hatred
• 25:54
  Speaker 6: of Islamic people. And so the display that he put
• 25:58
  Speaker 6: on his peaceful protest, because of course he didn't hurt anyone,
• 26:02
  Speaker 6: was somehow discriminatory, and he has now been convicted essentially
• 26:07
  Speaker 6: of a form of blasphemy.
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: I mean, this is ridiculous.
• 26:11
  Speaker 6: Again, find him whatever for starting fires in public places,
• 26:16
  Speaker 6: But what does it matter what he set fire.
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: To that the irony is that he was attacked as
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: he burned the Qur'an, and he was attacked by a
• 26:24
  Speaker 3: guy with a knife who allegedly stabbed him and allegedly
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: kicked him when he was on the ground. The attacker,
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: do you think he's been to court yet?
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: Not yet.
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: He's walking around free on bail. He's not due in
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: court for another two years.
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: So the guy who allegedly does a stabbing, he's walking around.
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: But the guy who burned the Qur'an, he's already been
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: tried and found guilty. Kirs Starmer went to the High
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: Court as a lawyer defending a woman for the right
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: to trample on a US flag, and he said at
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: the time even the most insulting acts are protected by
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: free speech. But of course now as the Prime Minister,
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: he's been absolutely silent on this issue. Even his own
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: party call for the desecration of religious texts to become
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: a crime. The leader of the Conservatives, Kemy Badenock, has
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: said de facto blasphemy laws will set this country on
• 27:11
  Speaker 3: a road to ruin this case should go to appeal.
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: Freedom of belief and freedom not to believe are inalienable
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: rights in Britain. As I said in this interview. I'll
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: defend those rights to my dying days. He was originally
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: charged with harassing the religious institution of Islam. That's what
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: the prosecutors originally came up with, as if Islam is
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: somehow a person, it's an idea, the same as Christianity
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: is an.
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: Idea, the same as communism, capitalism. They're all ideas.
• 27:42
  Speaker 3: And if we're not free to criticize, debate, if necessary,
• 27:46
  Speaker 3: mock and ridicule ideas, then we are not free in
• 27:50
  Speaker 3: any sense at all. This is a terrible judgment in
• 27:54
  Speaker 3: the UK. And if Keir Starmer doesn't do something to
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: overturn this and speak strongly against it, then the whole too.
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: Tiakia applies doubly.
• 28:07
  Speaker 7: It's a very dark day for the West when you
• 28:11
  Speaker 7: can't criticize religion without being hauled before courts. It's like,
• 28:15
  Speaker 7: I'm sorry, are we in the twenty first century or
• 28:18
  Speaker 7: the sixteenth century?
• 28:19
  Speaker 5: Here? Seriously?
• 28:20
  Speaker 7: And there are other countries in Europe that have now
• 28:23
  Speaker 7: banned the burning of korans for fear of public disorder.
• 28:27
  Speaker 5: Hmm, let's just think about that.
• 28:29
  Speaker 7: They're scared of public disorder when you criticize is Lam.
• 28:34
  Speaker 7: I mean, I think any religion, any idea, any political
• 28:38
  Speaker 7: philosophy should be up for debate, and you should be
• 28:41
  Speaker 7: open to criticism. And the poor guy, the poor protester here,
• 28:45
  Speaker 7: he fled Turkey as an atheist because he was being persecuted.
• 28:49
  Speaker 7: He has first hand experience with the danger of fundamentalist Islam.
• 28:54
  Speaker 5: And also the harassment didn't stop. Apparently two people.
• 28:58
  Speaker 7: Invaded his home, he received death threats, and he's now
• 29:01
  Speaker 7: being protected in a safe house. Seriously, Britain, not only
• 29:06
  Speaker 7: can they not guarantee the safety of people who criticize Islam,
• 29:11
  Speaker 7: they're also now prosecuting them. How have we gotten to
• 29:15
  Speaker 7: this point?
• 29:15
  Speaker 6: And we should point out as well that it's one
• 29:18
  Speaker 6: thing to be able to criticize ideas, but what this
• 29:21
  Speaker 6: does is put a certain set of ideas.
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: On a higher pedestal than all others.
• 29:26
  Speaker 6: Because if you burnt a copy of the Communist Manifesto,
• 29:29
  Speaker 6: for instance, in somewhere in London, I don't think they'd
• 29:33
  Speaker 6: be charging you with some sort of you know, otherwise
• 29:36
  Speaker 6: aggravated defense. It would be a public order offense that
• 29:39
  Speaker 6: you're setting things on fire in public places, But I
• 29:42
  Speaker 6: don't think they would say, ah, that was a politically
• 29:44
  Speaker 6: motivated defense and.
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: Therefore it is different.
• 29:47
  Speaker 6: But you know, so often these things come up now
• 29:50
  Speaker 6: where you think back to an old movie.
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: You're an old TV show.
• 29:53
  Speaker 6: And you go, jeez, when they did that, that was satire,
• 29:56
  Speaker 6: like they were making fun of these things, as though
• 29:59
  Speaker 6: it could never happen again. It turns out most of
• 30:02
  Speaker 6: the time they were actually instruction manual. Sir, in this
• 30:05
  Speaker 6: case the life of Brian, you have.
• 30:08
  Speaker 4: Been found guilty by the elders of the town of
• 30:11
  Speaker 4: Uttering the name of our Lord, and so as.
• 30:15
  Speaker 5: A bless fever.
• 30:18
  Speaker 6: You are to be stoned to death. Look, I had
• 30:23
  Speaker 6: a lovely supper and all I said to my wife
• 30:26
  Speaker 6: was that piece of honey.
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: But was good enough for Jehovah? He said it again.
• 30:34
  Speaker 6: Direct from the UK courts in twenty twenty five.
• 30:37
  Speaker 5: So funny.
• 30:38
  Speaker 7: And that's the thing, right, if you burnt a Bible
• 30:40
  Speaker 7: in front of Westminster Abbey, I highly doubt he would
• 30:43
  Speaker 7: be getting prosecuted. But do you guys remember the Olympics
• 30:47
  Speaker 7: in Main colleig.
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: Trying to forget the Paris Way that was so bad?
• 30:51
  Speaker 5: True?
• 30:52
  Speaker 7: Another example, do you remember the drag show of Jesus
• 30:55
  Speaker 7: at the opening community that was never prosecuted. But imagine
• 30:58
  Speaker 7: if that was the prophet Muhammad. Different story. But anyway,
• 31:02
  Speaker 7: a Algerian boxer in Main Khalif caused quite the stir.
• 31:06
  Speaker 5: There was a lot of speculation.
• 31:07
  Speaker 7: Was she a male, a female, inter sex, transgender?
• 31:12
  Speaker 5: It was all very unclear.
• 31:14
  Speaker 7: The Olympic Committee said because her past sport identified her
• 31:19
  Speaker 7: as a female, she was able to compete in the
• 31:21
  Speaker 7: female category and won the gold medal, except leaked medical
• 31:27
  Speaker 7: records from the Boxing Federation shows she was actually excluded
• 31:32
  Speaker 7: from an international boxing competition back in twenty twenty three
• 31:37
  Speaker 7: because she showed some male chromozoone markers. And they've now
• 31:42
  Speaker 7: said she has to undergo or I guess he they
• 31:46
  Speaker 7: the boxer has to undergo further chromosome testing to prove
• 31:50
  Speaker 7: that they're actually a female, because these initial tests showed
• 31:53
  Speaker 7: they were in fact a male.
• 31:55
  Speaker 5: Now, the worst part of all this is that.
• 31:58
  Speaker 7: The Olympic Committee knew at the Paras Olympics that there
• 32:01
  Speaker 7: was doubt, serious doubt over the Algerian boxes gender and
• 32:06
  Speaker 7: that the boxing Federation had already excluded them from competition.
• 32:11
  Speaker 7: Yet they allowed them to compete beating females, rubbing females
• 32:16
  Speaker 7: of the chance to win the gold medal. And now JK. Rowling,
• 32:20
  Speaker 7: who has been a fierce defender of women's rights, has
• 32:23
  Speaker 7: spoken out against this, essentially calling for the medal to
• 32:28
  Speaker 7: be revoked. We call for medals to be a revoked
• 32:30
  Speaker 7: when cheating occurs. This is an unfair advantage. I don't
• 32:33
  Speaker 7: see why it's any different.
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: Of course the medal should be revoked.
• 32:36
  Speaker 3: It's say boxer who has male chromosomes competing in a
• 32:39
  Speaker 3: women's event and winning. That's not fair, It's not right,
• 32:43
  Speaker 3: and the medal should be returned. Otherwise, you could choose
• 32:47
  Speaker 3: next time the Olympics roll around, to watch the Olympics
• 32:50
  Speaker 3: or watch your cartoon. What's the difference, watch World Federation wrestling.
• 32:53
  Speaker 3: The whole thing is just make believe that. The silly
• 32:56
  Speaker 3: thing about this is twofold one, the one who always
• 33:00
  Speaker 3: say follow the science, trust the science, and yet on
• 33:04
  Speaker 3: this one the Olympic committee said, we don't want to
• 33:07
  Speaker 3: know about the science. Forget a DNA test or a
• 33:11
  Speaker 3: chromosomal test. We're happy to take the athlete's word for it.
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: And so they simply allowed athletes to self identify according
• 33:19
  Speaker 3: to their own passport, which of course is based on
• 33:21
  Speaker 3: their own say so. The other thing I found strange
• 33:24
  Speaker 3: about this story is now that it's being reported Khalif
• 33:27
  Speaker 3: has male chromosomes. The New York Post, which reported it,
• 33:32
  Speaker 3: continually referred to Khalif as she and her. And this
• 33:35
  Speaker 3: is what a topsy turvy, mixed up world we're in now,
• 33:39
  Speaker 3: where even after it's discovered male chromosomes, the media are
• 33:43
  Speaker 3: still using female pronouns to refer to the person.
• 33:46
  Speaker 6: And you have to feel sorry for Khalif on some
• 33:49
  Speaker 6: level because it would seem that she. I mean, obviously
• 33:54
  Speaker 6: they choose to go by she, but probably lived most
• 33:59
  Speaker 6: of their life as a girl or believing that they
• 34:02
  Speaker 6: were a girl, but for whatever reason, a gender disorder
• 34:06
  Speaker 6: exists whereby they're not actually entirely a girl.
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: Now that of course.
• 34:11
  Speaker 6: Gives you some level of advantage, and I can imagine
• 34:13
  Speaker 6: it would be really difficult.
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: I mean, this is not a case of.
• 34:15
  Speaker 3: Way, can I break in for a second. You can't
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: be half a boy and half a girl. There's not
• 34:20
  Speaker 3: this third dimension, well there is in it was delayed
• 34:23
  Speaker 3: sexual development. Whereupon I believe the story is that when
• 34:27
  Speaker 3: Khalif was born, it was believed that Khaliff was female. Yes,
• 34:32
  Speaker 3: but later discovered Kalif is actually male.
• 34:35
  Speaker 6: Yes, so you can understand why that would be a
• 34:38
  Speaker 6: difficult situation. But there are two problems here right. One
• 34:41
  Speaker 6: is that Khalif continues to compete in the knowledge of
• 34:44
  Speaker 6: that which is unfair. And the second is that the
• 34:49
  Speaker 6: IOC did nothing about it.
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: They called it Russia propaganda.
• 34:52
  Speaker 6: They were aware, well aware of this testing and they
• 34:56
  Speaker 6: chose to do absolutely nothing about it. The IOC needs
• 35:00
  Speaker 6: to be hauled over the coals for that. Of course,
• 35:03
  Speaker 6: as we said before, they said it was oh, you
• 35:04
  Speaker 6: just show your passport. I mean, for Heaven's sake, in
• 35:07
  Speaker 6: many states of Australia now you can have this stuff
• 35:09
  Speaker 6: changed in five minutes flat. So you can't trust what
• 35:12
  Speaker 6: is on the front of a passport. And for the
• 35:14
  Speaker 6: IOC to say that is an absolute joke. If they
• 35:17
  Speaker 6: don't fall on their swords for this thing, you know,
• 35:19
  Speaker 6: what's the point, It's all over for us.
• 35:21
  Speaker 3: So before we go to a break, I want to
• 35:22
  Speaker 3: get your thoughts on comments out of Beijing. After the
• 35:26
  Speaker 3: Defense Symposium in Singapore, where the US Defense Secretary Pete
• 35:31
  Speaker 3: Hegseth encouraged Australia's Richard Miles to convince alban easy to
• 35:36
  Speaker 3: increase defense spending to three point five percent of GDP,
• 35:40
  Speaker 3: which makes sense. We live in a perilous world at
• 35:43
  Speaker 3: the moment. But a retired colonel from the People's Liberation
• 35:46
  Speaker 3: Army in China has told journalists quote, is it necessary
• 35:50
  Speaker 3: for you, Australia to follow the US to challenge China?
• 35:54
  Speaker 3: If you do not go to China, There's no way
• 35:56
  Speaker 3: China would come to Australia to fight against you. This
• 35:59
  Speaker 3: is a moment for US Australia to do some soul searching.
• 36:03
  Speaker 3: Why would China, Freyer be encouraging Australia not to spend
• 36:07
  Speaker 3: any more money on defense. You don't need to arm yourselves,
• 36:10
  Speaker 3: even as they embark on the greatest military upgrade since
• 36:15
  Speaker 3: World War Two?
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: Would there be a slight agenda there? Do you think?
• 36:18
  Speaker 7: And not only that, he says there would be no
• 36:20
  Speaker 7: reason for China to come to you.
• 36:23
  Speaker 5: They're already here.
• 36:25
  Speaker 7: Do you not remember the PLA naval flotilla that circum
• 36:29
  Speaker 7: and navigated Australia. Do you not remember the research vessel
• 36:33
  Speaker 7: that tracked our undersea cable. I'm sorry, China is already here.
• 36:38
  Speaker 6: Look, they just sending dictation to the handsome boy, aren't
• 36:41
  Speaker 6: they saying this is what you WoT to do?
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: And look, it is a.
• 36:45
  Speaker 6: Real testing moment for the Prime minister because if he
• 36:49
  Speaker 6: chooses to take the side of China, then we know
• 36:51
  Speaker 6: exactly where he stands. I think when they sent that
• 36:55
  Speaker 6: vessel down, the Twister, that Submarina vessel during the election campaign,
• 37:00
  Speaker 6: it was a test of the Prime Minister to see
• 37:02
  Speaker 6: in the middle of an election campaign who he would
• 37:05
  Speaker 6: side with, and in that case he sided with China.
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: He did what they wanted him to do. So it
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: would be very interesting to see how this plays out.
• 37:13
  Speaker 3: And Alberinezi says, we have our own policy. We don't
• 37:16
  Speaker 3: just follow America. Fine, don't follow America in upgrading our
• 37:20
  Speaker 3: defense capabilities.
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: Just do it because Australia should do it.
• 37:23
  Speaker 3: It's pretty obvious, as you said Frey, You've got Chinese
• 37:26
  Speaker 3: warships live firing off the coast of Sydney. You've got
• 37:30
  Speaker 3: a massive armament build up happening in China.
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: We don't need to follow the US.
• 37:34
  Speaker 3: Just do it, because it's a blindingly obvious thing to
• 37:37
  Speaker 3: do when you're living in this part of the world
• 37:39
  Speaker 3: and you've got China arming at such a rapid rate.
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: We're going to go to a break.
• 37:42
  Speaker 3: When we come back, we'll look at what's making news tomorrow,
• 37:45
  Speaker 3: including a great story on the front page of The
• 37:48
  Speaker 3: Australian about just how much money the federal government is
• 37:51
  Speaker 3: spending tackling climate change.
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: Promise you it'll make your eyes water. That's coming up
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: in a moment.
• 38:02
  Speaker 3: Welcome back to the program. Let's take a look at
• 38:04
  Speaker 3: what's making news tomorrow. And Caleb, I've got to admit
• 38:06
  Speaker 3: when I saw the front page of tomorrow's Hobart Mercury,
• 38:10
  Speaker 3: I thought that must be fake news.
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: Are you talking about that sculpture looking thing?
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: Sculpture?
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: I'd agree with that. That does well. It ought to
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: be fake news, I think.
• 38:21
  Speaker 6: But if you're referring to the story below it, which
• 38:24
  Speaker 6: says poly paycheck check. Premier Jeremy Rocliffe has rejected advice
• 38:29
  Speaker 6: from the Productivity Commission that Tasmanian politicians receive a twenty
• 38:33
  Speaker 6: two percent pay rise from July one, saying the recommended
• 38:36
  Speaker 6: increase is out of step with community expectations. That I
• 38:39
  Speaker 6: would say, yes, I can understand why you thought that
• 38:42
  Speaker 6: might be fake news. Apparently they haven't had a pay rise.
• 38:44
  Speaker 6: The pollys in Tazzi for seven years and so the
• 38:48
  Speaker 6: base salary for an MP would have gone from one
• 38:51
  Speaker 6: hundred and forty thousand to one hundred and seventy one
• 38:54
  Speaker 6: and a half thousand. But you know, Rockcliffe has quite
• 38:57
  Speaker 6: rightly pointed out that it's rather out of kildeer with
• 38:59
  Speaker 6: community expectations right now, so perhaps we should not take
• 39:04
  Speaker 6: our own interest first here, and good on him for
• 39:06
  Speaker 6: doing it. I do find it extraordinary that they haven't
• 39:09
  Speaker 6: had a pay rise for seven.
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: Years, but you know, good on him for not having one.
• 39:12
  Speaker 3: We're just to point out the premier himself, his pay
• 39:15
  Speaker 3: rise would have been from three hundred and one thousand
• 39:17
  Speaker 3: to three hundred and sixty eight thousand, so he's taken
• 39:20
  Speaker 3: a big hit by showing leadership on this issue.
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: But that's the problem.
• 39:24
  Speaker 3: If you don't take pay rises when they're due, then
• 39:26
  Speaker 3: seven years lady, you think, gee, we better get up
• 39:28
  Speaker 3: to where we should be. Everyone says, what a twenty
• 39:31
  Speaker 3: two percent pay rise? We can't do that. Little mind
• 39:34
  Speaker 3: that they haven't had a pay rise since twenty eighteen.
• 39:37
  Speaker 7: And seriously, inflation now versus twenty eighteen, they've actually had
• 39:40
  Speaker 7: a real pay cut when you consider the amount of
• 39:43
  Speaker 7: inflation we've had in Australia. So I don't know, but
• 39:46
  Speaker 7: principal decision from Rockcliffe nonetheless, but also down in Tasmania,
• 39:49
  Speaker 7: he may not last long as premier because apparently he's
• 39:52
  Speaker 7: at mercy of house revolved. Tasmanian Liberal Premier Jeremy Rockcliffe
• 39:58
  Speaker 7: appears to have lost the confidence of the House of
• 40:00
  Speaker 7: Assembly and, barring any Cross bencher backflips, will have to
• 40:04
  Speaker 7: resign or call a snap election. With three Cross benches
• 40:07
  Speaker 7: late on Tuesday publicly supporting a foreshadowed Labor no confidence
• 40:11
  Speaker 7: motion in the beleagued Liberal leader, his premiership appears doomed.
• 40:16
  Speaker 7: The final decision will now rest with the States Greens,
• 40:19
  Speaker 7: who will meet as a party, most likely early on Wednesday,
• 40:23
  Speaker 7: to decide mister Rockcliffe's fate. I mean, this can't be
• 40:26
  Speaker 7: just over the twenty two percent pay rise.
• 40:28
  Speaker 3: Surely, I was going to say that's probably only over
• 40:32
  Speaker 3: the teat.
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: Didn't Tony Abbott.
• 40:34
  Speaker 3: Do his He basically did his number when he made
• 40:37
  Speaker 3: changes or suggested changes to politicians' pensions. Didn't your superinnuation
• 40:42
  Speaker 3: or something in that was there.
• 40:43
  Speaker 6: There was also the small problem of giving Prince Philip
• 40:47
  Speaker 6: as well as well, though though I have to say
• 40:50
  Speaker 6: you can't call him the greatest prime minister we never had,
• 40:52
  Speaker 6: because of course he was prime minister for a short time.
• 40:54
  Speaker 6: But I think he's the greatest prime minister we sort
• 40:57
  Speaker 6: of missed out on who was there for such a
• 41:00
  Speaker 6: short time and could have done great.
• 41:01
  Speaker 3: But the timing of this rejects a play rise form.
• 41:03
  Speaker 6: Yeah, it.
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: Is rather interesting.
• 41:07
  Speaker 6: It is.
• 41:07
  Speaker 5: It's very interesting.
• 41:08
  Speaker 6: They only had I mean the election, say election there
• 41:11
  Speaker 6: was fourteen months ago. It was March last year, and
• 41:14
  Speaker 6: already they are in trouble. And of course it took
• 41:17
  Speaker 6: a few days for them to sort of come out
• 41:19
  Speaker 6: of the wash in that election as to how things
• 41:21
  Speaker 6: are actually going to turn out. But you know, if
• 41:23
  Speaker 6: you can't last fourteen months after an election, you're in trouble.
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: And even if you survive.
• 41:29
  Speaker 6: An incident like this, you really should be thinking about
• 41:33
  Speaker 6: your future anyway, because if they're talking about no confidence,
• 41:36
  Speaker 6: it'll come back again. If it doesn't happen.
• 41:38
  Speaker 3: Now and later in the week, we could be talking
• 41:40
  Speaker 3: about Premier Eddie Erica.
• 41:42
  Speaker 7: Beet Yes, perhaps stay tuned. Also, in the Australian climate
• 41:46
  Speaker 7: change spend surges to nine billion a year, the federal
• 41:51
  Speaker 7: government spending on climate change and ntzera policies have reached
• 41:55
  Speaker 7: nine billion a year, up from six hundred million just
• 41:58
  Speaker 7: a decade earlier, and up more than four hundred percent
• 42:02
  Speaker 7: in the last term of parliament. New analysis shows despite concerns,
• 42:07
  Speaker 7: progress on emissions cuts is too slow and the costs
• 42:11
  Speaker 7: of electricity keep on rising. I mean, this is the problem, right.
• 42:17
  Speaker 7: We've now got a government that is spending billions mitigating
• 42:22
  Speaker 7: climate change, trying to cut emissions to very limited success.
• 42:27
  Speaker 7: And as we say, Australia is less than two percent
• 42:31
  Speaker 7: of global emissions. So we're spending billions and billions of
• 42:34
  Speaker 7: dollars every year to achieve what.
• 42:39
  Speaker 6: Nothing I mean is nine billion now was one point
• 42:42
  Speaker 6: seven billion in March twenty twenty two. I mean, forget
• 42:46
  Speaker 6: about it was six hundred million a decade ago.
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: We're talking three years ago.
• 42:50
  Speaker 6: We've gone from one point seven billion to nine billion.
• 42:53
  Speaker 6: And what has been delivered for that? Well, I was
• 42:55
  Speaker 6: going to say nothing, but that's not true. Everything's just
• 42:58
  Speaker 6: become more expensive.
• 43:00
  Speaker 3: Meanwhile, we can't afford to properly defend ourselves. We know
• 43:03
  Speaker 3: where the money can we.
• 43:04
  Speaker 6: Can defend ourselves against carbon dioxide.
• 43:08
  Speaker 3: The greatest threat facing this country, no doubt, Caleb. Let's
• 43:11
  Speaker 3: go to the advertiser in South Australia. Six point eight
• 43:14
  Speaker 3: million dollars to stop jail balls up reads the headline.
• 43:18
  Speaker 3: Tougher barriers to prevent people lobbing tennis balls filled with
• 43:23
  Speaker 3: drugs into the women's prison a part of a six
• 43:25
  Speaker 3: point eight million dollar corrections package in this week's state budget.
• 43:28
  Speaker 3: The Treasurer said the funding would include building new railings
• 43:31
  Speaker 3: on the jail's perimeter defense, where people recently had been
• 43:34
  Speaker 3: caught hitting tennis balls filled with contraband into the prison yard.
• 43:39
  Speaker 3: They'll also pay for new high tech security scanners to
• 43:44
  Speaker 3: be installed. Weirdly enough, this is not unique to the
• 43:48
  Speaker 3: South Australian Women's prison. Some years ago there were guys
• 43:52
  Speaker 3: prosecuted in New South Wales for lobbing tennis balls filled
• 43:55
  Speaker 3: with drugs into the prison yard, and I read stories
• 43:58
  Speaker 3: this afternoon about similar activities in UK prisons as well.
• 44:02
  Speaker 3: So apparently it's a very common way to try to
• 44:05
  Speaker 3: smuggle drugs into a prison just whack a tennis ball
• 44:08
  Speaker 3: over the fence.
• 44:08
  Speaker 6: It's a little more low tech than the video we
• 44:10
  Speaker 6: saw last week of a throne being used to drop
• 44:14
  Speaker 6: vapes and stuff into prison. But look, to be honest,
• 44:16
  Speaker 6: I would have thought there's always been a ban on
• 44:18
  Speaker 6: balls in women's prisons. Let's go to the front of
• 44:20
  Speaker 6: the Herald's Sun Tomorrow where it says exclusive by Rebecca Ball,
• 44:24
  Speaker 6: greenlight for Principles to suspend expel students who attack peers
• 44:28
  Speaker 6: or teachers away from school bullies Beware is the headline.
• 44:32
  Speaker 6: Victorian students bullying are attacking other children and teachers outside
• 44:35
  Speaker 6: of school house faces benion or expulsion under a crackdown
• 44:37
  Speaker 6: on vicious behavior.
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: The Herald Son can reveal.
• 44:40
  Speaker 6: The States Principles will soon have the authority to discipline
• 44:43
  Speaker 6: students whose actions, both in person and online outside school
• 44:47
  Speaker 6: grounds risk the welfare of their peers and educators. And
• 44:50
  Speaker 6: I think it's a common sense move because, of course
• 44:53
  Speaker 6: we know once upon a time bullying occurred in the
• 44:56
  Speaker 6: school yard, but essentially the school yard bullying now just continue. Used,
• 45:00
  Speaker 6: you know, ad for an item, because it goes straight
• 45:03
  Speaker 6: onto Facebook or or TikTok, whatever the hell the kids are.
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: Using now and it doesn't stop.
• 45:08
  Speaker 6: And it is fundamentally a school issue because that's where it.
• 45:11
  Speaker 7: Emanates exactly and that is the dangerous part of social media.
• 45:15
  Speaker 7: The bullies follow them home literally in their pocket in
• 45:18
  Speaker 7: the courier mail. Thugs get a clear record. Kid creams
• 45:23
  Speaker 7: who invade Queensland homes armed and attack resonance with knives
• 45:28
  Speaker 7: in heinous acts should not have convictions recorded against them,
• 45:31
  Speaker 7: the state's highest court has ruled. In a decision handed
• 45:34
  Speaker 7: down yesterday, three Court of Appeal judges declared that the
• 45:37
  Speaker 7: two teens who stormed the home of Wallaby's rugby legend
• 45:40
  Speaker 7: two Tai Kefu should not have convictions on their record.
• 45:44
  Speaker 5: Is this fair, James?
• 45:46
  Speaker 3: If you break into a home, and if you break
• 45:48
  Speaker 3: into a home with a knife, and you break into
• 45:51
  Speaker 3: a home with a knife and threaten people, it doesn't
• 45:54
  Speaker 3: matter how old you are, that should stay on your records. Sorry,
• 45:58
  Speaker 3: but you just can't go soft on things like this.
• 46:01
  Speaker 3: You've got to stamp it out. And we've tried the
• 46:03
  Speaker 3: soft approach doesn't make a difference. Got to get tough
• 46:06
  Speaker 3: on it. We're going to go to a break when
• 46:07
  Speaker 3: we come back. Chess is not normally regarded as a
• 46:10
  Speaker 3: spectator sport, but maybe that's about to change. When you
• 46:12
  Speaker 3: see the tantrum thrown by the world number one when
• 46:15
  Speaker 3: he lost.
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: That's coming up in a moment.
• 46:17
  Speaker 3: Prior to the break, we were looking at tomorrow's newspapers,
• 46:20
  Speaker 3: which made me think, what sort of newspapers would you typically.
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: Go to for news? Thought?
• 46:24
  Speaker 3: Washington Post, Caleb. Would you go to the Washington Post
• 46:27
  Speaker 3: to get your news?
• 46:28
  Speaker 6: Oh? Most definitely you would, because it'll tell you things that.
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: You wouldn't tear anywhere else.
• 46:33
  Speaker 6: Probably because no one else would dare to say them,
• 46:36
  Speaker 6: because it'd bit silly.
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: Particularly in this case.
• 46:38
  Speaker 6: The Washington Post had this great expose on fentanyl being
• 46:42
  Speaker 6: taken into the United States dropping by record numbers. I
• 46:46
  Speaker 6: mean they say in this article that there's a new
• 46:50
  Speaker 6: and puzzling reality confronting people working at the bottom. Why
• 46:54
  Speaker 6: could this be that fananel going into the US has
• 46:58
  Speaker 6: suddenly dropped Habe. It's because Donald Trump is president, and
• 47:02
  Speaker 6: of course he said he.
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: Was going to crack down on this, and so they thought.
• 47:06
  Speaker 6: Well, maybe we won't bother taking it over the border.
• 47:08
  Speaker 6: It's gone from seventeen hundred pounds was averaged last year
• 47:11
  Speaker 6: going over the border each month of being ceazed at
• 47:13
  Speaker 6: the border to seven hundred and forty six pounds, and
• 47:16
  Speaker 6: the Washington Post is ah, but this started before Trump
• 47:19
  Speaker 6: became president, ignoring the fact that, of course, for two
• 47:22
  Speaker 6: months between the election and him becoming president, they knew
• 47:25
  Speaker 6: he was coming anyway.
• 47:27
  Speaker 7: Come on, It's almost like if you police the border,
• 47:29
  Speaker 7: people stop smuggling legal things in. But look, finally someone
• 47:34
  Speaker 7: has made an honest Harvard ad.
• 47:37
  Speaker 5: It is a parody, but it's pretty funny. Check this out.
• 47:42
  Speaker 8: Ever, wish your child was a full blown liberal idiot
• 47:45
  Speaker 8: desperate to turn them into a Jew hating extremist who'd
• 47:47
  Speaker 8: rather burn a flag than think for themselves, Well, Harvard
• 47:50
  Speaker 8: University has the answer. For the low, low price of
• 47:54
  Speaker 8: half a million dollars will transform your kid into the
• 47:57
  Speaker 8: kind of zealot who sets bags about on fire in
• 47:59
  Speaker 8: the street, screaming about whatever CNN's whining about today. Our
• 48:03
  Speaker 8: elite program guarantees they'll swap reason for rage and facts
• 48:07
  Speaker 8: for feelings faster than you can say protest permit. But wait,
• 48:11
  Speaker 8: there's more. Our tuition doesn't cover the essentials. Blue hair dye,
• 48:14
  Speaker 8: nose piercings, and a weak, flaccid body are sold separately for.
• 48:18
  Speaker 7: The small price of five hundred thousand USAU.
• 48:22
  Speaker 5: Sounds like a pretty good deal, James.
• 48:23
  Speaker 3: The best humor always comes from telling the truth, and
• 48:26
  Speaker 3: that's the reason lefties hate humor. He chess isn't normally
• 48:30
  Speaker 3: a spectator sports. Probably pretty boring to watch other people play.
• 48:33
  Speaker 3: But I don't know, maybe I'll change my mind after
• 48:36
  Speaker 3: watching Magnus Carlson, he's the current world number one lose
• 48:40
  Speaker 3: a look at his reaction when he loses to a
• 48:43
  Speaker 3: nineteen year old kid. He's certainly not happy about it.
• 48:58
  Speaker 4: Oh my god, that's about as exciting as chess gets.
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: But it reminds me of when I was a kid
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: and you'd lose a game. In you it is still it.
• 49:14
  Speaker 6: Is still one of the most polite responses to losing.
• 49:17
  Speaker 6: I think you should see me when my horse gets
• 49:19
  Speaker 6: done on the line.
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: It's a lot worse than that.
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: That's all from us. Good night, stick around to bit
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: a penalty up in just a moment.