Latest / Wealthy Woman Lawyer Podcast, Helping you create a profitable, sustainable law firm you love / 218: What PNCs Really Mean When They Say “No” to Your Services

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218: What PNCs Really Mean When They Say “No” to Your Services · Wealthy Woman Lawyer Podcast, Helping you create a profitable, sustainable law firm you love

• 0:00
  Davina: The only people who are disturbed by your boundaries are those who are planning to cross them or who are likely to cross them. So remember that, do not rush to change a clause in your contract because somebody found it bothersome and didn't like clause that you had in there. You create your contracts with thought and careful thinking to make sure that you're protecting the interests of your law firm business. And I know as attorneys, you put a lot of thought into that. So just because somebody doesn't like a clause in your contract doesn't mean you should go eliminate it.
• 0:36
  Probably they were just validating that you had it there.
• 0:40
  Intro: Welcome to the Wealthy Woman Lawyer Podcast. What if you could hang out with successful women lawyers, ask them about growing their firms, managing resources like time, team, and systems, mastering money issues, and more? Then take an insight or two to help you build a wealth generating law firm. Each week, your host, Devina Frederick, takes an in-depth look at how to think like a CEO, attract clients who you love to serve and will pay you on time, and create a profitable, sustainable firm you love. Devina is founder and CEO of Wealthy Woman Lawyer, and her goal is to give you the information you need to scale your law firm business from 6 to 7 figures in gross annual revenue so you can fully fund and still have time to enjoy the lifestyle of your dreams.
• 1:26
  Now here's Devina.
• 1:31
  Davina: Hi, this is Devina. And before we jump into today's show, I'd like first to introduce you to some of our sponsors. When prospective clients are looking for an attorney, they usually turn to Google first. Optimize My Firm helps law firms grow their practices and attract more right fit clients through on page and back end search engine optimization. Optimize My Firm can help your firm rank higher on Google so that clients can find you before they find your competition.
• 2:02
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• 3:12
  Hi, everyone, and welcome back to the Wealthy Woman Lawyer Podcast. I'm your host, Demina Frederick, and today's topic was inspired by conversations with other women law firm owners as usual. Recently, I've had a few discussions with women law firm owners about what it means when prospective new clients wind up not hiring them. It's not uncommon when this happens to feel like maybe you should change something in your process or to take it personally, especially if prospective clients give you a reason, also known as an objection, as to why they're choosing not to hire you or to hire someone instead of you. It also can feel painful when someone tells you that they're not hiring you for a particular reason, or even when they just ghost you.
• 4:00
  You were so sure that they were gonna hire you, but then you never hear from them again, and you wind up wondering what happened. What did I do wrong? What could I do better? So first of all, let me reassure you, the feeling around this type of rejection, if we can just call it that, gets better over time. The more you do this, the less it's going to bug you.
• 4:20
  But it only gets better once you realize that A, better clients are coming and now you'll have the capacity to serve them. So just because one person didn't hire you, doesn't mean that the three more right behind them won't hire you. And B, you've probably dodged an asteroid and the universe is protecting you from something that is not meant for you. So it may be that there are a lot of good reasons why you're gonna be happy that that person is not your client and you won't ever know, but just know that there's universal protection out there for you. The longer you operate your business, the more you will understand the truth of this.
• 4:59
  So today, I thought I'd dive into some of the objections that you may be hearing or reasons or excuses or whatever you wanna call it, why somebody's not hiring you and share with you what it may really mean when someone tells you they're not hiring you for these reasons. Because if you take these reasons at face value, you may feel like you need to make some changes. So let's start with reason number one, they object or they question you because of a clause in your contract. So they read your contract and they go, Oh my gosh, I'm not hiring you because of this clause in your contract. So what you may think it means is, Oh crap, I should not have had that in there because if I didn't, they probably would have signed on be my client.
• 5:43
  But what it really means is it's a good thing you had that clause in your contract because it's likely that that clause would be the very one that they violated if they did hire you. The only people who are disturbed by your boundaries are those who are planning to cross them or who are likely to cross them. So remember that. Do not rush to change a clause in your contract because somebody found it bothersome and didn't like clause that you had in there. You create your contracts with thought and careful thinking to make sure that you're protecting the interests of your law firm business.
• 6:22
  And I know as attorneys, you put a lot of thought into that. So just because somebody doesn't like a clause in your contract doesn't mean you should go eliminate it. Probably they were just validating that you had it there. Alright. So number two, they object to your fees.
• 6:37
  They're saying that they are too high or that they can't afford them. So what you may think it means is, oh crap, my fees are too high and I'm pricing myself out of the market. B, what it really means is that they don't value your services enough to pay that rate for them. So let me give you an example from another industry. I'm gonna share a story of something that happened.
• 7:00
  My husband and I recently, we want to renovate our bathrooms and starting with the showers because the grout in the showers has been deteriorating over time and it's causing some issues. Potentially, we can see that we may start to get mold and potentially leaks in the showers if we don't address this problem. So they're two very serious problems or we anticipate they will become serious. However, since we both work from home and we have a very anxious barky dog who likes to bark when anything out of the ordinary is happening, we've been putting off fixing this issue because of the length of disruption to deal with it. Also, we'd rather spend the money on something else, like a fun trip.
• 7:42
  I mean, who wouldn't, right? It's getting serious though, as I said. And so we started getting quotes before it becomes a major problem. We called one of those places that they say they can complete a shower installation in as little as two days. And we invited them in and found out that what they would do is install an acrylic, not a fiberglass, not tile, but an acrylic unit.
• 8:06
  So that's how they can do it quickly. It comes in like five pieces. They come in, they install it. However, they quoted us $16,000 per bathroom for installing this unit in our showers only. That's not renovating the whole bathroom.
• 8:19
  That's just installing this shower this unit in our shower. So that'd be $32,000 for two bathrooms to install this acrylic unit. That's it. Okay? They would do nothing else in the bathroom in any way for any renovation.
• 8:33
  So we immediately rejected them. Why? Because while we value saving the time of disruption, we do not value it enough to number one, install a fixed acrylic unit instead of tile because we don't really like the look of the acrylic unit. And number two, pay $32,000 to have only two showers redone. It may appear on the face of it that we are objecting to the money, but the reality is that the issue is not so urgent that we don't have time to shop around and find a more suitable alternative.
• 9:06
  Also, it's not really what we want. And thirdly, we think they're overcharging, right? So it is partially the money, but it's other things as well. Another guy quoted us $12,500 to fully renovate both of our bathrooms. And that's still a significant investment, but it's more in line with what we wanted.
• 9:25
  The issue with that is we were seriously contemplating moving, and we don't really know if we wanna invest that much more in this house before we move. Also, to tell you the truth, we had a little sticker shock when we first heard that because that was the first quote we got. And we didn't know until we started getting other quotes how costly bathroom renovations could be. So when he first quoted that, we were a little shocked by it. And we started doing our homework.
• 9:50
  We started to realize that, hey, maybe he wasn't so off the mark. But we called a third guy and he's an independent contractor who handles small jobs like ours. And we are just going to have him re tile the showers because truthfully, the countertops, sinks, the flooring, and the toilets are all fine if we choose to move and rent this place out or sell it when we move. So we're buying the materials, he's doing the work, and now the investment is a few thousand dollars per bathroom. It's still more than we were thinking it was going to cost, but it's more in line with what it is that we really want.
• 10:26
  We want a tile shower. We wanna have the showers replaced and the disruption will be as short as it could be to have the acrylic unit installed, but it won't be as long as if we have the full bathroom renovation done. So it's gonna be about two weeks of disruption for both showers. So as it turned out, we were not as concerned about the length of disruption as we thought we were. If we were originally discussing this, this was a big concern of ours.
• 10:53
  Our number one priority is to fix the problem before it becomes a more serious problem. And our number two priority is to find a solution that is aesthetically pleasing, but doesn't break the bank because we don't wanna invest too much in this place when we know we likely won't get it back when we rent or sell. So, of all the contractors that we spoke with, they didn't know kind of our secret agenda because we didn't share it, which is that we may be moving and we may be renting or selling it. And so therefore that we're not inclined to spend over a certain amount, right? And they would not have known that.
• 11:27
  The first contractor who quoted the acrylic inserts could not have known what our priorities were because we didn't know yet. But by going through the process of getting quotes, we were able to get clarity on what we wanted and what we did not want. On the face of it, it seemed like a money objection, but it really turned out that we didn't understand what it really was that we needed or wanted to be clear enough with people about that until we sort of went through this process. So I share this story with you because I want you to think about that with people who may say that your fees are too high and not hiring you. They may not need the full scope of services you're offering to provide, or they may need them, but they don't yet understand the marketplace and what's an appropriate fee or not.
• 12:13
  When we started looking at bathroom renovations, we were thinking 2,003 thousand dollars in labor to renovate a shower. But we got quite a shock when it was more double that. And it wasn't until we started checking out quotes that we sort of understood that. Also, may not feel that their problem is urgent enough that they need to make a decision today. In our case, while it's something that we definitely need to address and are addressing, it's not something where we had to make a decision that day.
• 12:42
  So we had a little time to think about it. The lesson for you is do not adjust your fees because someone objects. I promise you that those people who are advertising to come and do bath and shower installations in two days with acrylic tubs are making millions of dollars a year because there are some people out there that that's the exact solution. They're not shocked by that price And they're perfectly willing to pay it because it meets their objective. It's the same with your prospective clients that some people just need to go through their research.
• 13:14
  Some may never come back to you, but that's okay. The right fit clients will hire you. Also a bonus tip, the better you get at conveying the value of your services to the right clients, the better you'll get at signing them up. You can convey the value of your services all day long to the wrong clients and they will never sign up. So you wanna make sure you always are seeking out and doing everything you can to determine, help people self select and really to attract those right fit clients.
• 13:44
  So you're not wasting a lot of time pitching to people you know aren't going to hire you. I'll give you an example of that. If you're constantly attracting and getting leads from pro bono and low bono clients, and then you're trying to sell them, you're trying to raise your fees and sell them a market rate service, they're not going to buy all day, every day. They're not gonna buy and you're gonna waste your time trying to calm down to where they need you to be and want you to be. All right, number three is the objection when people say they need to think about it.
• 14:17
  Okay, what you may think it means is, okay, they'll think about it and then they'll call me back next week when they said they would. What it really means though, is even if they say, I understand the value of your legal services. If they have to think about it, there is still some nagging thoughts or questions they are struggling to articulate or even sort out an answer in their own minds. It may be that while they understand the value of your services in an objective way, they do not fully understand the value of your services to them at that moment. So put another way, they cannot understand the return on investment they get in hiring you, or they do not believe they'll receive that return on investment.
• 15:01
  So whatever their legal issue is they're trying to hire you for, it may be that they don't really see the value to them in that moment. And those clients who are not right fit clients won't, right? Urgency is a huge factor in people hiring you for legal services, for most legal services. And there is something there that they probably don't have that level of urgency. Or it may be that they're using the thinking excuse to get off the call with you because they haven't done their research into the cost of legal fees and they have sticker shock.
• 15:36
  They haven't had as much time to process your fees as you've had to process what the cost of legal fees is, right? If they've never interacted with a lawyer before or a law firm, they may not understand what legal services cost. And so they're using the thinking excuse to get off the phone with you so that they can do more research. And they don't wanna tell you they can't afford to hire you because they may feel embarrassed or shame around their inability to do so, or they may have just some complicated money stories in their head, and they don't want you to judge them as too poor to afford you. It also could mean that they don't trust their judgment to make a decision at that moment.
• 16:17
  And perhaps that they have been told they're impulsive or because they're worried about making a wrong decision, they will avoid making decisions until they absolutely have to make a decision. Nine times out of 10, the need to think does not mean that they're going to think about it and call you back when they said they were going to. So try not to take it personally though, because their need to think is likely not about you at all. Also, don't sit by the phone and go ahead and move on to your next lead. Let them go think and they may or may not come back to you and that's fine, but don't sit there and think to yourself, well, that person's gonna come back next week And when they do, I'm gonna have $10,000 in the bank or whatever your retainer is, right?
• 17:01
  Just move on to the next thing. All right, number four is they say they must check with someone else. What you think it means is they're gonna go talk to their spouse, their parent, their grandparent about getting the money and then they'll be back. And sometimes that is the case depending on the nature of your legal services. What it really means though, most times is number one, they need someone else to come up with the money because they don't have it, which is what we just said.
• 17:26
  Or number two, they require validation or approval from someone else before they make decisions. So they don't trust themselves enough to make a high dollar or difficult decision. So they have to go ask other people and survey other people for their opinions before they make decision because they don't trust themselves. Number three, they don't understand something. And instead of asking you, they want to go ask someone else that they already know and trust, even if that person does not have the knowledge.
• 17:55
  So I know many of you have had this situation where, you know, aunt so and so told me that this is the way it should be or not the way it should be. So, they've gone and Googled something or their auntie has told them or their brother has told them something and it's not always correct knowledge, but they trust those people. So, they're going to ask their opinions. Again, this is something that if somebody has to go check with somebody else, then they may not be a right fit client for you. And that's okay.
• 18:23
  They can find somebody else that they're a better fit client for and don't sit around and worry about it. So I'm sharing all of this with you to help you understand that just because a prospective client decides not to hire you to help them with their legal issue, it does not mean that you need to change your process. Most of the time, it's not about you, it's not about your process, it's not about your fees, it's not about your contract, it's not about you at all. The caveat to this is if you notice a pattern of the same objection repeatedly. So if you haven't closed a new client in months, even though you're getting good leads, then you might wanna take a look at your sales skills, at your processes or at your fees.
• 19:07
  If you keep getting rejections with the same objections, not just one, two, or even three times over the course of a couple months, but dozens of times, may need to take a look at yourself and your business and maybe get somebody else, a mentor or coach or somebody to help you figure out what it is that you may be doing wrong that you could tweak and have better results. So before we wrap up, I wanna leave you with a lesson I learned from Monica Shaw, who is a coach I hired many, many, many years ago when I was just starting out in business. And she said, if a client asks you for references and you haven't been in business long enough to have any references, maybe you're just starting out, then don't beat yourself up because you don't have references. Don't let them make you feel bad if you don't have references. Just know that that client is not a right fit client for you in that moment, in that time and space.
• 19:57
  But the next client who doesn't need references may be your exact right fit client. All right. So I hope you've enjoyed today's episode of the Wealthy Woman Lawyer Podcast. If so, please leave us a review on Apple Podcast because it would just mean the world to me and we could get the word out to more women law firm owners that we can help. Also, you're a woman law firm owner with a strong desire to scale your law firm business so you can create a profitable, sustainable, wealth generating machine that not only fully funds your chosen lifestyle, but gives you back your time so you can enjoy it, then I encourage you to join us in the Wealthy Woman Lawyer League.
• 20:33
  Click the link in the show notes for all the details and to join. And I'll be back next week with more great content. See you then.
• 20:39
  Intro: If you're ready to create more of what you truly desire in your business and your life, then you'll want to visit us at wealthywomanlawyer.com to learn more about how we help our clients create wealth generating law firms with ease.