Latest / Andy Stanley Sermons / Andy Stanley - Great Leaders Play to Their Strengths, Part 1

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Andy Stanley - Great Leaders Play to Their Strengths, Part 1 · Andy Stanley Sermons

• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Hey, everybody.
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: Welcome to the Andy Stanley Leadership Podcast, a conversation designed
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: to help leaders go further faster. If you're listening by
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: way of a podcast app, you may want to check
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: out the YouTube version of this conversation, something we've recently launched.
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: And to those of you who are joining us by
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: way of YouTube, welcome to the conversation or welcome back
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: because this is the third episode of a special series.
• 0:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right. And if it's your first time, I'm
• 0:35
  Speaker 3: Holly Goddard. I'm the co-host of this series and a
• 0:37
  Speaker 3: special series it is because you've written a brand new book. Yep.
• 0:41
  Speaker 3: What Great Leaders Do, subtitle, Seven Essentials for Enduring Impact. Now,
• 0:45
  Speaker 3: I've been a part of our organization for 15 years.
• 0:48
  Speaker 3: I've seen these play out. I know these will affect
• 0:51
  Speaker 3: your day job. And you've named the tensions, you've given
• 0:54
  Speaker 3: us the practices, and you've told us what to do
• 0:57
  Speaker 3: about it. So thank you. Thanks for doing this book.
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: And putting all this together. It's been fun to talk
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: about the content of the book. So thank you for
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: being a part of that.
• 1:05
  Speaker 3: And with these episodes, we're really only scratching the surface.
• 1:08
  Speaker 3: So You should pick up a copy because there's so
• 1:11
  Speaker 3: much goodness. There's so much stuff in this book. So
• 1:14
  Speaker 3: you ready to jump in?
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, let's jump in.
• 1:15
  Speaker 3: All right. In the first two episodes, we explored the
• 1:18
  Speaker 3: topic of exceptional self-leadership and the first essential that you
• 1:22
  Speaker 3: unpacked for us. You taught us great leaders lead themselves well. Right.
• 1:26
  Speaker 3: So today we're going to unpack the second essential, which
• 1:29
  Speaker 3: is great leaders play to their strengths. And thanks for
• 1:32
  Speaker 3: being in the hot seat. Thanks for being willing to
• 1:34
  Speaker 3: talk about all of this. And I want to start
• 1:36
  Speaker 3: with an assumption that you just turn on its head
• 1:38
  Speaker 3: right out of the gate. You know, as leaders, we
• 1:41
  Speaker 3: all have an assumption. The more responsibility we have, the
• 1:44
  Speaker 3: more we're supposed to be doing.
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: And the more we end up doing with responsibility.
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's our tendency. Yes. But then you give us
• 1:52
  Speaker 3: something that just turns that on its head. You contradict
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: that by saying the less you do, the more you accomplish.
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: So for us high achievers, that feels kind of backwards. Okay.
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: We're kind of pristling against that one right there. So
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: why is doing less important? Why is that a great
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: leverage point for us?
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: So to clarify, it doesn't mean doing less work or
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: working less hours. The idea is the scope of the work.
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: So the idea behind this whole idea is that great
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: leaders narrow the.
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: Scope of their work, the scope of what they do.
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: They don't do less. They do less things. They don't
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: work less hours necessarily. So this is about.
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: Leaning into our strengths, finding our sweet spot, staying there,
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: scheduling there. And again, leaning into our strengths, when we
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: lean into our strengths and we delegate our weaknesses are
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: the things that we're not as good at because most
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: of us are only good at one or two things.
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: And when I say, I say compared to our other
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: strengths and weaknesses, not compared to other people, but when
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: a person evaluates their personal strengths and weaknesses, there's usually
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: just a couple of things that we're exceptional at compared
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: to everything else we have the potential to do. So
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: leaders identify that as early as possible. It took me
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: way too long to figure this out or to identify that.
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: And then once they do, they lean into the strengths.
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: We delegate everything else. And the reason everything gets better
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: is because if I delegate the things I'm not that
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: good at, then I'm going to be better at what
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: I'm good at. And there are other people around me
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: and around you and around our listeners who are good
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: at the things that we're not good at. And when
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: people are doing what they're best at, good things happen.
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: But as long as I'm hanging on to and involving
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: myself in things that I'm just pretty good at, and
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  Speaker 2: since I'm the boss or you're the boss or you're
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: the manager or the owner.
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: You feel all the freedom to do that.
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Nobody's going to take it away from you.
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  Speaker 2: But when we ignore this principle, we become a lid
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: to the organization, even though we may be enjoying everything
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: that we're doing. And because again, if most of the
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: people in the organization report to you They're just going
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: to smile and laugh at your jokes and cheer you
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: on as you do things that you're not necessarily really
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: that good at. So this isn't about fewer hours. This
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: is about fewer things. And again, reducing the scope of
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: what we do so that we're in our zone and
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: therefore making the best contribution to the organization.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's so good. So if we find our focus,
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  Speaker 3: then we don't put a lid on the organization. And
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  Speaker 3: you say at some point in your leadership, you had
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: this realization that you were just doing too much or
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: too many things. You write this. I was working hard
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: and slowing things down simultaneously. Okay, that's fascinating. So looking back,
• 4:26
  Speaker 3: how did you realize you were becoming the bottleneck?
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: Well, there were a couple of things, but I think
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: the most helpful thing or most transferable, well, first of all,
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: there were things that just weren't going well that I
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: was responsible for. But the real, you know, the defining
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: moment was my assistant, Diane Grant, who I talk a
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: lot about in this book.
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: She's worked with me for 30 years.
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  Speaker 2: Diane- kept trying to take things away from me. And
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: other people did, too. In fact, early on, people would.
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: And I thought they were just being nice, like, oh, Andy,
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: we want to help you. And I'm like, oh, no, no, no,
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  Speaker 2: I don't need help. I've got this. And I realize
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  Speaker 2: now they were thinking, that's the problem. You've got this.
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  Speaker 2: And as long as you've got it, it ain't going
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  Speaker 2: to be great. So I finally realized, because Diane was
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: very overt, Andy, I'm not just trying to help you.
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: I'm trying to take something away from you because somebody
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: else can do this better. And she would never go
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  Speaker 2: so far as to say, you're not good at this,
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  Speaker 2: because I was probably good at it.
• 5:24
  Speaker 3: Right.
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  Speaker 2: But two things were happening. I wasn't great at it.
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: And the time I was spending doing some of these
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: things was time that was taken away from my primary
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: value add to the organization.
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  Speaker 1: So this was a learning thing.
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  Speaker 2: And in fact, in the second part of this discussion
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: next time, in the next episode, I'm going to talk
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: about the reasons leaders don't apply this.
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: And there are five reasons.
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  Speaker 2: And two of those were so true. But fortunately for me,
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: I had somebody who came along who loved our organization
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: so much that they didn't mind potentially offending me to say,
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: let us take that.
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: You do you. You do your thing. Let us do
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  Speaker 1: the rest.
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  Speaker 2: But that begins with some humility, some self-awareness, and figuring
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: out what we're good at. And this is what I
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: say to young leaders. I say, look, when you first
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: start off in leadership, You have to do a little
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: bit of everything to discover your passion, what you enjoy,
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: and then ultimately what you're wired for.
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: And that takes some experimentation.
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: But you need to figure that out as soon as
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: possible and try to work your way into a job
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: or apply for a job that leverages that strength. So
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: early on, I think we all have to experiment. Early on,
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  Speaker 2: we all get this wrong, perhaps, because, you know, especially
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: if you're starting an organization, you really have to do
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: everything because– It's necessary.
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  Speaker 1: There's nobody else to do it. And I think this
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  Speaker 1: was part of my struggle.
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  Speaker 2: I felt like part of my responsibility when we launched
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  Speaker 2: our organization was I was trying to set a standard
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: of excellence in some areas that in our particular industry,
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: sometimes there wasn't excellence. So all of that was well-meaning,
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: but I went too long. I stayed in some of
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: those roles too long. And fortunately, I had some people
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  Speaker 2: that were like, we're not trying to help you. We're
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: trying to help the organization by taking this away from you.
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  Speaker 1: So anyway.
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  Speaker 3: Well, I love you created the kind of environment where
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  Speaker 3: you could have those kind of conversations because it is
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  Speaker 3: so easy to swerve out of your lane as a leader.
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  Speaker 3: And we create a lot of chaos when we do that.
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  Speaker 3: You say part of the problem was that you bought
• 7:32
  Speaker 3: into a myth. And this myth that good leaders should
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  Speaker 3: be good at everything.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: The great, the well-rounded leader myth.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. In the book, I.
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  Speaker 2: I give some examples of this because I was fortunate
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  Speaker 2: to be introduced to primarily through my dad, some extraordinary leaders,
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  Speaker 2: some people who had accomplished great things. And you are
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  Speaker 2: often less, especially when you're young, you're left with the impression,
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  Speaker 2: you know, these, you know, these.
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  Speaker 1: People are great at everything. They're great public speakers.
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  Speaker 2: So I was left with the impression in order to
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: be a great leader. I needed to shore up my
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  Speaker 2: weaknesses so that I could be like them, you know,
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  Speaker 2: great at everything.
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  Speaker 3: Do it all.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: But behind the scenes, the reason that they were so
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  Speaker 2: accomplished and in some cases so well known is they
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  Speaker 2: had discovered this principle. And they had leaned into their strengths,
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  Speaker 2: developed those strengths. They were not well-rounded leaders, but several
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: of them certainly led well-rounded organizations. So and that's kind
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  Speaker 2: of the, I don't know, the paradox in all of this.
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  Speaker 2: The less I focus on what I'm not good at,
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  Speaker 2: the organization gets better at what I'm not good at.
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  Speaker 1: And that's true for any organization.
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  Speaker 2: So when I lean into my strengths, delegate my weaknesses,
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  Speaker 2: everything gets done better because I'm not doing it or
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: you're not doing it.
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  Speaker 1: So it's a bit of a paradox.
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  Speaker 3: Well, you say this is such an important statement that
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: you make. You say your fully exploited strengths will always
• 8:56
  Speaker 3: add more value than your marginally improved strengths. weaknesses. Yes.
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  Speaker 1: Okay.
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  Speaker 3: That's a really big thought.
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  Speaker 1: Yes.
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  Speaker 2: And so the key to this is fully exploiting our
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: strengths rather than trying to shore up our weaknesses. Because again,
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  Speaker 2: this isn't compared to other people.
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  Speaker 1: This is just internally.
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  Speaker 2: My weaknesses will always be weaknesses compared to my strength.
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  Speaker 1: Same for you. Same for you.
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  Speaker 3: Right.
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  Speaker 1: That's just the reality.
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  Speaker 2: So if we're going to devote our time to something,
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  Speaker 2: we should devote our time to as much as we
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: can perfecting our strengths or developing our strengths, which then
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: become the primary value add to the organization. And if
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: that is a value that we both model, that we
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: model and teach in our organizations, and as you know,
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  Speaker 2: this is something I've been teaching for years and have
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: tried my best to create a culture where, and you're
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: actually great at this, Holly. You're, in fact, at a
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: personnel level, management level, you're way better at this than
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: I am. to recognize people's strengths, to position them, to
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: use Jim Collins' language, to make sure they're not just
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: on the bus, but in the right seat on the bus.
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: And when you get that right, they thrive. We narrow
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: their focus, their scope. More gets done, more gets done better.
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: But again, it begins with leaders recognizing that about themselves,
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: giving other people on the team permission to experiment.
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: And positioning them correctly. And at the end of the.
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: Day, everybody does perhaps fewer things, but more gets accomplished
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: and it gets accomplished better.
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: And people enjoy.
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: Their jobs because- Yeah, they're in their sweet spot.
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: Right, right.
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: When you're working in your flow, I think that's a
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: Daniel Pink phrase. When you're working in your flow, you're
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: energized rather than depleted. And I, you know, in the
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: early days when I was trying to do everything I
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: would just come home exhausted. And again, your passion starts
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: to wane, your energy wanes. So this is a big deal.
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: It takes some time to figure out and it takes
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: some humility to hand things off.
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, I love the permission to go hard into
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: your strengths. I remember the first time I ever did
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: a 360 assessment and some of my weaknesses came back.
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: I thought, How do they know? Like, I thought I
• 11:06
  Speaker 3: was covering it better, but the truth is, all you
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: got to do is ask some people. They know the
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: things you should hand off.
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: Exactly.
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: No, that's a great point. And that's one of the
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: advantages of a 360. And since you brought that up,
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: this is really important because the temptation, my first 360
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: many years ago, when I saw some of the areas
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: I needed to work on, they were things I knew
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: that I was never going to be, I felt defeated
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: because I thought I'm doing the best I can. And
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: I was doing the best I could, but I was
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: never going to be the best at that. So, you know,
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: going into a 360 with that in mind, and also
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: for those of us that have employees that we ask
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: them to do 360s, when that feedback comes back, differentiating
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: between character issues, which we all were responsible for that.
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: Versus skill level issues.
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: And when somebody consistently is kind of flagging, it's like, okay,
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: before we decide this isn't the right person for the team,
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: maybe they just aren't in the right seat with the team.
• 12:14
  Speaker 3: Yes, such a big deal. And when you have a
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: well-rounded team, a lot of great things happen. In fact,
• 12:19
  Speaker 3: we just experienced this this past week on our team,
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: something that we kind of thought, I don't know if
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: we could pull this off when we lended the authority
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: to somebody else that happened.
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so I'll, you want me to tell that story? Yeah,
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: tell it, yeah.
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: So, you know, we work at a large multi-site church,
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: and we had a backlog of adults who wanted to
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: be baptized, and we normally just baptize a couple people
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: per service.
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: You know, on Sunday morning.
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: So our service programming director came to me and Holly
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: and said, okay, we want to, she said, I want
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: us to do a Sunday morning where all we do
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: is baptize people, and I think we can baptize 80 people.
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: So it would just be music and baptism.
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: And we're like, okay, that sounds like a lot, 40
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: for service, you know, okay.
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: And then she came back.
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well, she came back and she was like, I
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: think we can double it. And I just wanted to
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: just turn my head the other way and not look
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: because I couldn't even figure out how you get all
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: those moving parts going. Right. But we were like, if
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: you think you can do it, let's try it. And
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: then she just said, all I need you to do
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: is this. You know, she gave us each an assignment.
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: She figured out the day. We stayed in our strengths.
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: And she stayed in hers. And it was unbelievable.
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: It was amazing. And the other kind of takeaway, and
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: this applies everywhere. You know, in every organization, you know
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: your strengths. I know my strengths. And when she created
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: this event or the potential for the event, we said
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: to her, how can we help? In fact, what can
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: I do to help is one of the best questions
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: a leader can ask constantly. Because people who report to us,
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: they're always asking us that. Very few employees hear from
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: their boss, how can I help? But that's what we
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: said to her.
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: How can we help? She said, Andy, you do this. Holly,
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: you do this. We're like, yes, ma'am.
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: And we loaned her our strengths. And in loaning her
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: our strengths and in her being in the position she was,
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: it was an incredible event. But so the point is
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: lean into your strengths, stay in your lane, position and
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: resource people to do the same. And the organization becomes
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: a well-rounded organization. One more thing on this.
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: And you know this. Our organization is an events organization,
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: so to speak. Right. And we are known. for amazing events.
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: And neither one of us are event planners and logistics
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: is not our thing. But again, we're not well-rounded leaders.
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: Well-rounded leadership is a myth, but a well-rounded organization is
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: a goal. And when people have the opportunity to play primarily,
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: not exclusively, but play primarily to their strengths, the organization
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: is strengthened.
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: So this is a really big deal.
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah, they begin to thrive and then so does the organization.
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: Which one of the ideas that jumped off the page
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: for me is you say it this way, only do
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: what only you can do.
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: All right.
• 15:19
  Speaker 3: That's one of those statements, really clear, really hard to
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: be consistent with. So why do you think that is?
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: Why is that hard to live that out?
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: Well, let me define it a little bit.
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: And this is something, again, I've taught for years, talked
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: about on the podcast multiple times. Only do what only
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: you can do is not destination. I think it's more
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: of a navigation point. In ancient times, mariners navigated according
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: to the North Star because visually it doesn't move. So
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: that's what this statement is. Only do what only you
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: can do. There may be people in this world who
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: are in some sort of corporate life or organizational life
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: who literally only do what only they can do. I
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: think that's rare.
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: I've never met a person whose job description of responsibility
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: is limited to that. But it is something to navigate by.
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: So only do what only you can do is to
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: do all that you can to be positioned in such
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: a way in the organization that the majority of your time,
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: and this is important, the majority of your most productive
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: time is dedicated to the area where you make the
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: most value add to the organization. So it's not just
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: limiting scope.
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: It also has to do with schedule.
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: And again, when I know my primary value add and
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: I'm able to devote my most productive time to that,
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: then that's probably as close to only do what only
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: you can do as somebody like me could get or
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: most people. So it's something to keep because when I
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: would teach this or say this to people, you know,
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: there's kind.
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: Of an eye roll like, yeah, right. That would be great.
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: But wait a minute before you discount it. It's it's
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: something to navigate toward over time. And as influence grows,
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: organizations grow, and job descriptions become more and more segmented,
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: and they're more specialist. This is more possible than people think.
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: But for the leader of a team or an organization,
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: it needs to be a North Star. Otherwise, to your
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: point earlier, we drift. And the areas we drift into
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: are areas we enjoy, whether we're good at it or not.
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: And we should all enjoy what we do, right? But
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: we've all met people who don't want to give something
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: up because they enjoy it so much.
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: And it's like, yeah, you enjoy it, but you're not
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: great at it.
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: So we're going to need to, you know, you're going
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: to need to find some joy somewhere else.
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: And when you're doing something where you're creating the most
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: value for the organization, there's definitely joy there.
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: So it's a point of navigation.
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: Well, I like that the practice is really orienting your
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: schedule and your calendar so that your strengths and your
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: priorities can show up big time in your work life.
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because our schedule, I mean, this is a bit
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: of an exaggeration. Our schedule is our future, right? When
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: you get up and you look at what's going to
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: happen in the week, or I look at what's going
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: to happen in the week, there's my future. So I
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: can look at the calendar and go, is this week,
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: this future, Is my best time given to my greatest
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: value added to the organization? I know that ahead of time.
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: And I determine, you determine, you determine what gets on
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: the calendar. So these things go hand in hand.
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: I learned this one the hard way. I had a
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: direct report come in to me, and I'm responsible for
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: leading our all-staff meetings at this campus. So I'm leading
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: a bunch of staff, and I was just not putting
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: time on my calendar to prepare for this. And he
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: literally called me out on that in a one-on-one and said, hey,
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: This is one of the most important things you do.
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: It kind of seems like you're winging it, like you're
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: not spending time during the week. And he was right.
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: And I realized I'm actually the only one standing up
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: there thinking about this, leading this through the week. So
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: I've got to change my calendar. So my life reflects it.
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: Okay, speaking of calendar, since you brought this up, at
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: the end of the book, there's a great interview with
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: you and Diane. Diane's your executive assistant of 30 years.
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: She's amazing. But you talk about how reluctant you were
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: to give her control of your calendar when y'all first
• 19:11
  Speaker 3: started working together, which that conversation is worth buying the book,
• 19:15
  Speaker 3: especially if you're an executive and you've got an admin assistant.
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: Like the way y'all navigated this and how honest you
• 19:21
  Speaker 3: were with each other. Yep. is so, so helpful. And honestly,
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: it seems like it has changed your leadership and the
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: way that you construct your weeks.
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: Yes, it did.
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: And Diane led you there.
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: She did because she would, once she knew, once we
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: agreed upon or we had the conversation around what's my
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: value add, which she knew that. In fact, like you
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: said earlier on, most people know this about us and
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: the people they work with, whether the person recognizes it
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: about themselves or not.
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: So she'd that.
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: She knew what my values were and what my priorities
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: were and where I need to spend most of my time.
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: So she took responsibility for making sure my most productive
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: hours were given to what makes the organization most productive.
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: But.
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: For that to happen, I had to give her control
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: of the calendar. So in the book at the end,
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: I talk a little bit about, and she does too
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: because it's an interview, but we're both way in on this,
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: that kind of tug of war because I wanted to
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: control it. But the problem was I kept putting things
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: on there that distracted from my primary value add to
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: the organization. So it's my fault. The calendar is my future.
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: I'm my own problem. And finally, I said, okay, you
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: control the calendar. You and Sandra, my wife, you've got that.
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: That was a game changer.
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: That's the decision you made.
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: And then what happened is my priorities, my strengths, and
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: my time were in sync.
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: And that was huge.
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: And so just real quick, to those of you listening
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: to this conversation, you're going, I wish. This is, again,
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: this isn't just a principle that you think about. Oh,
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: that's an interesting principle. The application really has as much
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: to do with your schedule and your calendar as it
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: does with just agreeing with, oh, I'm going to lean
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: into my strengths because, again, the calendar is the future.
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: Well, I love thinking about your calendar. It's your future.
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: It's not your to-do list.
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: Exactly. Right. Thank you.
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: And so if you treat it that way. Yeah. You
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: can stay in your sweet spot.
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: All right. So we need to prioritize our calendars. And
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: to do that, you got to delegate. And we know
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: that as leaders. We know, okay, delegate. But knowing is
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: really not the problem. Letting go is the problem. And
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: I've heard you say this before. You've got to let
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: go to grow. Okay, that's hard. But what's at stake
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: if we get this wrong?
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: Well, first of all, to give credit where credit is due,
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure that's a John Maxwell quote.
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: But again, memorable is portable and it rhymes. And it's true.
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: You got to let go. to grow.
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: Because when we do too many different things and many
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: of those different things aren't in our sweet spot, what
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: happens is the calendar gets full because that's kind of
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: the goal.
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: Oh, we got an hour on Thursday. Oh, what are
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: you doing Friday afternoon? So you fill up the.
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: Calendar, which means there's no margin.
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: And here's, this is a big deal. And I've been
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: there and done that and don't want to go back there.
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: When the calendar's full and there's no margin, we stop
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: leading and we simply start managing. because leadership requires margin.
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: Management is what needs to get done. Leadership is what
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: do we need to think about in the future that's
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: not on anybody's calendar because nobody's thinking.
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: About it yet.
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: One's reactive, one's so proactive.
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, one is almost all reactive. It's problem solving, problem solving.
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: And what happens is when the calendar's full, we become
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: problem solvers and we become managers. You've got to have margin,
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: which means The calendar, you know, is a tool. It's
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: not just a response to request. And so what happens
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: is we get reduced to managing. And I've been there.
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: The way I would say it is I was busy,
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: very busy. But at the same time, I was bored.
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: And my passion for what we were doing began to wane.
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: And I'll tell you how I sort of the wake-up
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: call was Diane, who we've talked about. She had an
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: assistant back then named Dawn. Dawn was a few years
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: older than me and Dawn did not need to work.
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: She didn't need a job. She loved me, but wasn't
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: overly impressed. And so she was not afraid to say
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: what was on her mind. And literally, I remember where
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: I was standing. I'm standing in Diane's office in front
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: of her desk and Dawn walks by and she says, Andy,
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: she's very, you know, motherly sometimes. Andy, do you know
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: what your problem is? I'm like, what, Dawn?
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: You know, she's like, she said this, she said, You're bored. Terrible.
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: And there sits Diane with the calendar, you know, got
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: all this stuff going on.
• 23:47
  Speaker 3: You get all this stuff on your chin.
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: But she knew me. We've known each other for years.
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: She said, okay, you're busy. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: But there's something missing and you're bored. And, you know,
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: I respected her enough to think, okay, I don't know.
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: I'm bored. I have so much to do.
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: But she knew there was something. And so that's when
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: I stepped back and realized, no, it's not that I'm bored.
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: because I'm bored with what I'm doing, but I'm problem solving.
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: I'm not leading because there's no margin on the calendar.
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: So you find yourself in that spot. You got to
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: hit eject. That's not going to work itself out.
• 24:25
  Speaker 3: You got to take some agency here.
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah. You got to do something kind of drastic.
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: Busy and bored sounds terrible, but you mentioned passionless.
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: Okay. That sounds like a really red flag.
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 24:35
  Speaker 3: And going back to leaders playing to their strengths. When
• 24:38
  Speaker 3: we don't stay in our strengths, not only are we
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: in the doom loop, but there seems to be a
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: lot of implications in the organization. Is that fair to say?
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely.
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: Neglect this principle, and there are implications for the organization.
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: And the primary one is this. Ultimately, and we've seen this,
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: it makes it difficult to keep talented people. And the
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: best way to explain this, we mentioned John Maxwell just
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: a minute ago. And for all of the John Maxwell
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: fans out there, of which I am one, you may
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: be familiar with his 21 immutable laws of leadership. And
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: one of those laws, he calls it the law of respect.
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: And so here's the law of respect. Leaders are attracted
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: to leaders they perceive to be better, more capable leaders
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: than themselves.
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: And I learned this a long time ago. Great.
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: Nobody, very few leaders feel like they have to be
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: number one. But they want to work for somebody they respect.
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: And they want to be in the circle that influences
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: their future in the organization. So I don't need to
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: be number one, but I want to be in the
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: conversation that influences where I'm going to be in the organization.
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: And I want to work for somebody who I respect
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: as a leader. So the law of respect, leaders are
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: attracted to leaders they perceive to be better or more
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: capable leaders than themselves. So to attract the best leaders
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: you can possibly attract, you must be the best leader
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: you can possibly be. So to attract the best leaders,
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: in other words, if people perceive me to be a
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: leader worth following, that I'm going to be the best
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: leader I can possibly be to attract the best leaders
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: for the organization. So maximizing our leadership potential, this is
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: where these two come together. Maximizing our personal leadership potential
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: is essential to maximizing the quality of the leaders on
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: our team.
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: Because I think John is right. Leaders want to work
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: for people or report to people. They respect leadership.
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: Leaders and to some extent feel like they might be
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: better leaders than me. So again, if I'm not in
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: my sweet spot, my leadership, not my leadership ability, but
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: my leadership potential isn't maximized, which could potentially impact who
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: would even want to work for.
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: Me or with me or in our organization, if that
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: makes sense. Yeah, it does.
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: No, there's lots of ripple effects from not getting this right.
• 26:53
  Speaker 3: You actually write it this way. that high capacity leaders
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: want to work with leaders they perceive to be better
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: than themselves. And I read that and I thought, okay,
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: that's intimidating, but it's true. I know that because that's
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: what I want. I'm attracted to a seat or an
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: opportunity if I perceive that the people leading me in
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: the circles I'm in are better and I'm going to grow.
• 27:13
  Speaker 3: And then John gives us this interesting... Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: So again, if you're a John Maxwell fan, he talks
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: about this all the time. And I'll be honest, and
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: I even say this in the book, the first time I...
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: was introduced to this idea that he talks about.
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: I didn't like it.
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: I pushed back on it. And over time, I'm like, no,
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: he's right. As offensive as this sounds. So here's the
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: way he describes it. You've probably heard this before. I'll
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: just read part of my notes. He says it this way,
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: on a scale of one to 10, an eight leader
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: will not follow a six leader. So on a scale
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: of one to 10, 10 being the greatest leader ever.
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: So if you're an eight, you're going to have a
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: hard time following a six. You're not going to follow
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: them long anyway, because It creates too much tension.
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: And I compare it to a rear-end collision.
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: Everybody's moving in the same direction, but the eight is
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: to the six like, come on, come on, come on. Again,
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: it's not a vision or direction issue. It's a quality
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: of the leader issue. So the moment, and this is
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: the takeaway, the moment a leader steps away from his
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: or her core competencies, their strengths, their effectiveness, their real-world
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: capacity diminishes. Nines become eights, eights become sevens, not because
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: their potential has changed, but because they're not playing to
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: their strengths. Stepping away from our core competencies does not
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: diminish our potential as a leader, but it does diminish
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: our real world day-to-day effectiveness. So to put all that together,
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: if I want to attract and keep the best leaders possible,
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: I have to be the best version of the leader
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: that I can possibly be. And when I get bored
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: and passionless, when there's so much on the calendar that
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: there's no margin for leadership, when I drop down into
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: management rather than leadership. it impacts the people that I
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: work with or the people that are going to want
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: to work with me. So this isn't just be the
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: best you can be. This has real-world implications for the
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: whole organization.
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: Well, that's the big thing, the real-world implications. So I've
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: experienced this. You know, when I step outside of my
• 29:17
  Speaker 3: sweet spot, I've been told, someone on my team always says,
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: you make things a little wonky.
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: They say that to you?
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's just a slang for get back in your lane.
• 29:25
  Speaker 3: Like things are getting off. So not only is it
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: bad for me, but here's the thing. that really I
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: don't like. It frustrates the ringers on the team. And
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: you know me. You know I like to have a
• 29:36
  Speaker 3: roster full of ringers. And I want them to be
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: in their suites doing their best work. So if we
• 29:41
  Speaker 3: don't get this right, we eventually will run off the
• 29:43
  Speaker 3: really good people on our teams. You say it this way.
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: We maintain our potential while undermining the potential of the
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: organizations we lead, in part because we make it difficult
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: to recruit and keep. High capacity people.
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 29:56
  Speaker 3: That is a scary thought.
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: It's true.
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: And I won't tell, I do tell the story in
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: the book about my daughter-in-law who came to work for us.
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: Oh, she's so high capacity.
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: She's so high capacity.
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: And the way we got her when she graduated from college,
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: she went to work for a company that everybody, you know,
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: watching or listening has heard of. And the department she
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: was working in, they kept telling her to slow down.
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: You just slow down. Well, you know, Danielle, you don't
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: tell Danielle.
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: There's no, that gear is not there.
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: No, and she was like out of there. And I
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: just thought you just lost a ringer. She is, I mean,
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: she's amazing. But, you know, so I said, come work
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: for us. We will never tell you to slow down.
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: That's so true.
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: Okay. So for the leader listening, they've heard all this.
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: They know my plate is too full. What should they
• 30:45
  Speaker 3: do this week?
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: Okay. So two suggestions.
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: One might be, to have, if you have an admin assistant,
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: executive assistant, to have them listen to this conversation and
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: to sort of create a paradigm or a context for
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: your calendar, your schedule, what you're feeling and sensing. And
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: it may give him or her permission, maybe they've not
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: had before, to address some of this with you. And
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: they're like, oh, good. I've been waiting for you to
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: ask the question. I wasn't sure that we could put
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: this on the table. So that's one thing. And again-
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: the conversation between Diane and me at the end of
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: the book, that might be a great place to start.
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: Because again, going back to what we said last time
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: in the other episode, you can't lead yourself by yourself.
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: And the people closest to you are the people that
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: can probably help the most with this. The second thing
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: is to, and this goes to what you just said, Holly,
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: is to monitor your passion, your energy, the One of
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: my mentors years ago said the best, the most important
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: thing a leader brings to his team or her team
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: is their energy. And our energy, day-to-day energy is tied
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: to our passion for what we're doing. So if your
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: passion is waning, that is a really, really big deal.
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: That's not just a personal thing. That is an organizational thing.
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: So to acknowledge that and to address that. And if
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: you were to say to me, Andy, well, how do
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: I fix that? Here's what I would say.
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: You're a leader.
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: You you know how to fix things. Admit the problem,
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: acknowledge it, and you'll figure it out. That's how you
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: got to where you are. But again, reframing, recontextualizing what
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: you're experiencing, which is what we just did. Your calendar
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: is too full. It's too full of things that you
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: really don't need to be doing. I mean, every one
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: of them individually feels like it's critical, but the sum total,
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: it's killing you. Address that, invite somebody to help you
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: and Go from there.
• 32:39
  Speaker 3: That's so good. Bottom line, don't be reduced to a manager.
• 32:42
  Speaker 3: You're a leader. Great leaders play to their strengths. Thank
• 32:45
  Speaker 3: you so much for that. We're going to pick it
• 32:47
  Speaker 3: up right there next time. We're going to explore five
• 32:50
  Speaker 3: traps that leaders fall into that make it almost impossible
• 32:53
  Speaker 3: for them to stay in their lane and to play
• 32:54
  Speaker 3: to their strengths. But thank you so much for joining us.
• 32:57
  Speaker 3: And before you go. Take a minute to subscribe wherever
• 33:00
  Speaker 3: you access this content. By subscribing, you help us grow
• 33:03
  Speaker 3: the audience, which allows us to keep bringing you great
• 33:06
  Speaker 3: content to help you go further faster. And be sure
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: to visit andystanley.com where you can download the Leadership Podcast
• 33:14
  Speaker 3: Application Guide. That includes a summary of this episode, plus
• 33:17
  Speaker 3: questions for reflection or group discussion. And we will see
• 33:20
  Speaker 3: you next time right here on the Andy Stanley Leadership Podcast.