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Transcript

Prop Potential · Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast

• 0:07
  SPEAKER_04: Have you ever wondered what goes on behind the table at a dance competition?
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_04: Exactly what are the judges looking for anyway?
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_04: This is Making the Impact, a dance competition podcast.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_04: Each week we'll cover a different topic related to the world of competitive dance from the perspective of the judges behind the table.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_04: We've all been there.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_04: It's the end of a long competition day, and here come the prop beds, wielding power tools and a giant set piece.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_04: There's no doubt that an impressive prop can add some bang to your routine, but are they really necessary?
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_04: Does every dance need a prop?
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_04: Today on Making the Impact, we explore using props, from a simple patent cane to elaborate set pieces.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_04: And idea judges Rob and Erin have a lot to say.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_05: Hey everyone, welcome to this week's episode of Making the Impact a Dance Competition Podcast.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_05: I am your host, Courtney Ortiz, and like always, I'm here with my co-host, Leslie.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_05: Hi, everybody.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_05: What's up, Leslie?
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_05: Season three.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_05: So excited for this one, and I'm just pumped to be back for season three in general.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_04: I know, it's been a wild ride since season one, so we're super psyched to get into this and bring you guys some hot topics.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, we're really excited for the season.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_05: So many hot topics.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_05: And today we are bringing you a very, very, very hot topic, and that is props.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_05: Props at dance competitions.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_05: We're gonna talk about every single one that exists: the good, the bad, and all the rose petals, y'all.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_05: We're gonna talk about them.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_05: So joining us today, we have two fabulous IDA judges.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_05: But before we meet them, we wanna give you a little bit of updates that are happening in IDA world.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_05: Yep.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_04: We are super psyched that we are able to have our Facebook group.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_04: Everybody from across the world, across the country has joined us on there.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_04: We are over a thousand members.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_04: So go us.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_04: Go you.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_04: Thanks for joining us.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_04: And that is one of the places that we love to connect with you guys.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_04: So if you're ever interested in hearing about a topic on the pod, like this one was a kind of a crowdsourced topic about props.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_04: You guys wanted it and we're delivering.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_04: So if you are interested in suggesting a topic for the podcast, you can reach out to us in the Facebook group.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_04: It's called Making the Impact a Dance Competition Podcast Community.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_04: You can answer a few questions on there to join, and we'll approve you.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_04: And you can ask all the questions and get our feedback about anything you want.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, please join us there.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_05: We love connecting with all of the members.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_05: We have a lot of fun things coming up in store for you all in the Facebook group.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_05: So join us there now.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_05: And I'm so excited to share one of our brand new sponsors for season three, and that is a dance formations app called Arrange Us.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_05: If you are a choreographer, a dance teacher, a studio owner, or a creative director, then I cannot wait for you to download the Arrange Us mobile app now.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_05: It is truly a lifesaver when it comes to mapping out formations for your next performances, competition choreography, or even recital.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_05: I'm sure as dance teachers, we've all been there when we whip out our pen and paper to draw out our formations during the choreography process.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_05: But with Arrange Us, you'll no longer need your notebook.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_05: Their intuitive and convenient design is easy to navigate and allows you to go straight into the creative process of choreographing without stressing over what formation is next.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_05: In the Arrange Us app, you can move and map out your dancers on stage and watch your formations come to life.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_05: You can also name each dancer, color coordinate, and even synchronize your formations with your music.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_05: How cool is that! As a user myself, I cannot recommend this awesome app enough.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_05: It has truly saved me so much time when I'm guest choreographing, and it's such a helpful tool that I think all dance teachers and choreographers need on their iPad immediately.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_05: Staging couldn't be easier thanks to Arrange Us.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_05: Head on over to the App Store now and download the Arrange Us app.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_05: That's A-R-R-A-N-G-E-U-S.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_05: And click on our show notes to download there as well.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_05: Thank you so much to Arrange Us for sponsoring season three of Making the Impact.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_05: We are so excited to have you on board.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_05: Alright, so we have had a lot of awesome reviews come in over the break of between season two and season three, which is so awesome.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_05: Like thank you to everybody who has discovered or found our podcast during our hiatus over the summer.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_05: And thank you for binge listening.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_05: If that was you, and if you've loved it and left us a review, we love you even more.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_05: But we want to share this awesome review that we received over the summer from TS Corp 13.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_05: And it says, I'm only a few episodes in and I'm addicted.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_05: I appreciate the insight, experience, and knowledge provided.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_05: As a teacher, I find it imperative to keep learning myself.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_05: And while I love hearing things suggested that I already do, as it provides some reassurance to me, I am learning so much more I either haven't been doing or haven't focused on enough.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_05: This podcast provides new outlooks, approaches, and focuses.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_05: I also have three daughters who dance, and I am hoping to find better ways to be a more patient teacher with them and less of an impatient mom.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_05: Thank you.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_05: So yay, thank you so much, TS Corp 13, for the fabulous review.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_05: We're so happy you found the podcast.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, and for all those binge listeners out there, thank you.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_04: I was reviewing our stats the other day and we averaged about 500 new downloads a week.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_04: Oh wow.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_04: During the hiatus.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_04: So awesome.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_04: So y'all like us.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_04: You really like us.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_04: So yeah, thanks for keeping us rolling.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_04: And, you know, if you like TS Corp 13, like what you hear, please write us a review.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_04: The Apple Podcast reviews are really what helps push us up in the algorithm in the dance podcast world.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_04: And so I think, you know, it's been really helpful for us to have over a hundred five-star reviews so that it's we're more searchable, people see us more, our our name is out there.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_04: So if you like what you hear, just do us a quick favor, write us a little review, and we would really appreciate it.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_05: So it is now time to jump into this fabulous prop discussion and meet our two special IDA judges as guests today.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_05: And our very first guest is brand new to the podcast.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_05: I'm super excited to welcome Miss Erin Demmers to the pod.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_05: Welcome.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_05: Thank you so much for having me.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_05: I'm so excited to be here.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_05: And we're excited to have you.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_05: And if you've listened to the pod, Erin, which I'm sure you have, if you know the drill, where pretty much we ask you to tell the pod world a little bit about you, who you are, where you're based, and anything else you'd like to share.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: I am a South Carolina girl.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: I teach in a small town called Beaufort, South Carolina.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: Also teach in Hilton Head.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's about a 45-minute drive.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I also teach in Savannah, which is about an hour away from me.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I grew up in Ermo, South Carolina.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: And then I moved to Southeast Georgia and then moved up to Beaufort, South Carolina.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I have always just as a child always wanted to be a dance teacher.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: From the time I took my first class, I just fell in love with it.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I just have a really big passion and really big heart to teach and to lead, but most importantly to continue learning myself and continue to grow myself as a dancer and as a teacher and mentor leader.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: I am very big into the ballet world.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: Two of the three studios I work for are ballet studios.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: That being said, I grew up in the competitive world and actually owned a competitive studio.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I've seen it seen it all.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: And most most recently I have made the transition from more of a competitive teacher to being behind the table as an adjudicator.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: And the education just keeps continuing and keeps rolling.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I love to watch competitions, love to work for them, love to I I just think it grows me that much more as a teacher.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm very excited to be here and tackle some of these questions.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you so much.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_05: Of course.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_05: We're so happy to have you.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_05: And so you were a previous studio owner, you're not a studio owner anymore.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: Not anymore.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: No, I opened a studio at age 24, which I don't recommend for somebody.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: It was a big challenge.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: Big challenge.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: And my whole thing was I just wanted everybody to be able to dance.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: And so I was not so great at saying Susie can't come to dance because you have not paid your bills.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: So right.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: Much more suited.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_01: It is hard, so I'm much more suited to be in the classroom and not in the administrative role.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: Well, sometimes you learn these things and now you know.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_04: Absolutely.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_05: Also, Aaron doesn't even know, but she just said Susie.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_04: I know.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_05: So we came came back already.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_04: Susie, Susie, Sally, and um our newest friend Shannon.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, we've got we've got three uh fictional dancers that we reference a lot on the pod.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_04: So you you brought Susie back in, so I'm sure we'll talk about her uh today.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_04: Awesome, awesome, can't wait.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_05: Awesome, thank you so much, Aaron, for joining us today.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_05: And our next special guest is not only a veteran judge, but is a veteran podcast guest at this point.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_05: He has been featured on season one, episode eight, boys in dance, and season two, episode 42, age appropriateness at competition.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_05: I'm always, always happy to welcome back Mr.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_05: Rob Gibbs to the podcast.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_05: Welcome.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: Hey everybody.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_05: Hey Rob, thanks for joining us again.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, my pleasure.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: I love chatting with you guys.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_05: And we love chatting with you, and I can't wait to hear all your thoughts about props today.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_05: It's gonna be great.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I've got a lot to say.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: I've got a lot to say about that subject matter.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_05: Especially because you were in the judge's seat every single weekend in 2021 season.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: So a lot of props, a lot of interesting things based around props and set pieces, and so I've uh really racked up some uh some opinions for you guys.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_05: Can't wait to hear all about some of Rob's other episodes that he participated in if you haven't yet.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_05: But for our new listeners, can you just give a little rundown about who you are, Rob?
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: Again, my name is Rob Gibbs.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: I am originally from Arkansas.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: I grew up dancing um at a dance studio in Memphis, Tennessee on the competition circuit and danced as much as I possibly could on stage.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: And then in 2007, I moved to New York City to attend a performing arts conservatory called the American Musical and Dramatic Academy of New York, otherwise known as Amda.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: Graduated in 2009 and have traveled around the country and in Canada performing in musical theater shows and review shows for a huge chunk of my adult life, which is uh actually where I met Miss Ortiz doing a Christmas show many, many years ago.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: And then I want to say I was probably in the first rung of Adjudicators for Impact, if I'm not mistaken.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm correct.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm still here hanging on, going out as much as as much as they'll let me, and as much as people want me to be there.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_04: Oh yeah.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_04: Well, we love Rob.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_04: We love Rob because Rob shows up on time.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_04: Rob does his job really well, Rob is a great adjudicator.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_05: Rob is the real deal, y'all.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's just because when I was younger and and we competed so much, when you would go back, because at that time you got your critiques on cassette tapes, you go back to the studio and listen to them with your director.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: I remember a very distinct difference of good judges' critiques and bad judges' critiques.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember saying at that time in my life, probably like 13 or 14, when I was able to have an opinion about that kind of thing, thought, if there's ever a day where I sit behind the table and judge at a dance competition, I hope I better never for my future self act like this or give critiques that are as empty as they they have been.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: And it's hard, adjudicating's hard, but I'm still trying to be that best judge that I had when I was a kid.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_05: I love that.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_05: Love it, love it, love it.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_05: And that's so necessary to hear.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_05: Some some people need to hear that, y'all.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_05: You need to hear that.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_05: Remember your youth, remember those critiques that you've listened to that were unhelpful.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_05: Now we're sitting on the other side of the table.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_05: We're trying to help the next generation.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_05: We're trying to inspire and give them what they deserve.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_05: Some helpful feedback.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_05: So, and we all love our job so much as being adjudicators and through IDA or on our own.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_05: So we're happy to give back.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_05: And I am very happy to have all three of you on the podcast today.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_05: So let's jump on in.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_04: Awesome.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_04: All right, guys.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_04: Props.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_04: You asked.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_04: People have been asking about this since season one, which is why we have not done it yet, because we wanted to save some good stuff for season three.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_04: So we're talking about props today.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_04: So, in my opinion, props encompass anything that is not your body, your costume, or your shoe on the stage.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_04: So, you know, anything from a hat to a cane to a rose petal, a leaf, a ladder, uh, a ladder, a table.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, truly anything you can you can think of.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_04: And I think we'll kind of diff differentiate a little bit in this conversation between props and sets, because those are different.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_04: But I think sort of for this conversation, they live in the same world.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_04: But I guess one of the biggest questions that we've gotten, and sort of something that people seem to stress out over, is are props necessary to winning a dance competition?
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: I personally have mixed feelings on this because I have seen a lot of elaborate props that really detracted from the actual dancing that was going on.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: It was very distracting to watch.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: And so when I got to be one of the things when I started judging is say, Erin, you know, you really have to, if there's an elaborate prop, look at the prop, but also look at the dancers and look at the quality that's that's around them.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: I think there are some competitions that do tend to focus on props, giving out prop awards that I don't necessarily I think if it's a great prop, that's a wonderful thing.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_01: If it's a prop that you have seen on a YouTube video from a larger studio, kind of takes some of the creativity out of it for me.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: I think so.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: The question is, is it necessary to win?
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely not.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think it's ever necessary to have anything in a competition piece that makes them win or makes them not win.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: I think as an adjudicator for so many years, I know that in the back of my mind, there's only a handful of dances that I can remember that used props or set pieces well.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: Everything else, I have either talked, you know, to myself about the fact that that was unnecessary or I've said it in a critique saying I think that you should eliminate it.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: And then and then I've forgotten about them.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: So then when you think about if you had a dance with a cane or a hat or a set piece or something that was so incredibly done and choreographed and well rehearsed, then those are the things that stick out in your mind for years to come, let alone when you get to the end of a nationals and judges are in a room for 45 minutes trying to discuss who's winning the entire nationals.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: That could set them apart.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: It absolutely could set them apart, but it could also hurt you in the end.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: If you had the Fred Astaire putting on the Ritz dance with the cane from the movie musical, it I've seen people try and recreate things like that before and it wasn't done well.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: So then they may have done a great job with their dancing or had immaculate technique, but then when it comes to the end of the weekend and you're trying to find the most entertaining or whatever, then that's when it hurts you.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's not about the effort of putting a prop into a dance because you can put anything into it.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's whether or not you did it tastefully, you did it well, and they're well rehearsed.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: I agree with that 100%.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: I love I I tend to be a minimalist as a as a teacher and as a choreographer.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: That being said, I do have a huge love for musical theater, and I I do think that it is so necessary for a dancer to be able to execute a dance properly with a with good hat work, good cane work.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I could get off on a tangent, so I will No, we love a tangent.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_05: Podcast.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_05: We want tangents.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_01: Well, for me, I feel as though prop work has gone in a direction of something that is more necess need-based, like obviously a dancer's going to dance with a hat at some point, a dancer's going to dance with a cane, a dancer's not that heels are props, but there's such a necessity for that.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: To where we have, and I'm not sure if we want to go ahead and talk about this, where we have dancers dances being set up with these elaborate sets in the back, and I say sets because they're not props, the dancers never touch them.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: And they are not needed for the dance.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I find myself saying that many, many times, like I'm not sure that this is really needed.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm not sure that this is actually something that's that's enhancing your dancing because it's not, it's not part of your dancing.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: But I have worked for people that awarded those studios and give gave them, you know, a big, you know, award for this elaborate prop that they never touched.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I have sat at the I I try to get along with everybody, but I've sat and and you know, not argued, because that's kind of a negative word, but had a discussion about I don't think this is a prop, you know.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I've had judges say, well, you can't give a prop award to a hat.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, well, if you've used the hat effectively, yeah, you know, rat to me that is more of an effective prop than something like a set or tossing of rose petals that we've seen a million times.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_04: Well, and it's that's interesting about the need-based prop.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_04: Because yeah, if you're doing a classic, you know, a Fossi number, you're gonna need a bowler hat.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_04: Like you're gonna need it.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_04: It's necessary to what that is.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_04: So then yes, you need to be taught how to use it properly.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_04: But like you said, if you're if we set up five giant boxes on stage and all we did was stand on them.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_04: Like, okay, I guess you created levels, which that's cool, but you could also do that by there's other ways physically to do that without making somebody's dad build build and store a prop and then build it on stage.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_04: And you know, it it becomes the sort of like, are you ma what are you masking by hauling this giant set piece on stage when you could really just do the dance?
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_05: It's to me, it's a gimmick.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_05: It's a gimmick, and I think people are relying on that to disguise kind of like what you were just saying, Leslie.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_05: I I love a prop done well, like you said, Rob, I love a prop done well.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_05: I think it's essential to dance training for every dancer at a point in time to learn how to use a hat and do hat tricks, to learn how to work with a cane.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_05: Those are things that are like fun, easy props, but also really necessary and teaches us a lot in the process.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_05: But I think every judge is in agreement that if you bring out your little chair and you and you sit in your throne for your the opening of your solo, we've all seen it.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_05: And then they do maybe a handstand on the edge of the arm once, and then they run around and then they do tricks the whole rest of the time, then they just come back and sit back in the throne at the end.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_05: I'm like, why did we need the throne?
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_05: Did we really need the throne to get this whole queen dance across?
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_05: Like, we sometimes we don't need the prop to be able to get the storyline across.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_05: It's it's a gimmick.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_05: It's like, oh my god, the judgers are gonna stare at how awesome this this Rhinstoned chair is that I made that I never took at all.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_05: You know, like to me, I'm just distracted that why is that there?
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_05: Unless you're on that chair the entire dance, or at least 50% please.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_05: Why is it there?
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_05: So I think to me, a lot of people or st teachers might be like, oh, well, this dancer is young, you know, it'll be really cute if we put the little like makeup table on stage with a little little ottoman or something.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_05: Let's get glam.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, let's get glam.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_05: And like they never use it.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_05: So I think my biggest pet peeve as a judge when it comes to prop is you better use your prop if you're gonna actually need it.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_05: And again, like what you were saying, Leslie, I don't feel like when I see some of these elaborate set pieces, unless it's a production number, first your set piece should not take more than two minutes maximum to set up.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_05: If power tools are involved, not sure if it's necessary for competition because you're wasting my time as a judge and you're wasting everyone's time.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_05: And there are rules to these setups that no one seems to follow anymore.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_05: So follow the rules, please.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_05: And I don't mind a set piece if it's really enhancing to like the storyline of the dance, but then I think about like the amount of money it costs to build it.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_05: I think about the amount of money it costs to haul it.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_05: I think about the amount of money it costs to store it.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_05: And is it really when you think about all those things, it's like, was this really worth it?
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_05: Because you probably spent$500 on building this set piece, and you could have put that into$500 more hours of training or something like that.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_05: I I don't know.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_04: When it's somebody's money, you know what I mean?
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_04: And that's kind of the kind of especially with lumber the way it is right now.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_04: Like I just I look at some of these giant set pieces and you know, and there's studios that do that.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_04: It's like there are studios that we see across the country that that that's kind of a staple of what they do is and and I guess there can be an argument that like okay, like if we're training professionals, you know, if we're if we're looking to go that route, like we want to create the ambiance, we want to create the scene, we want to give the impression that we're putting on a show.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, okay, I I understand that to a point.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_04: But like you said, you know, do that at your recital, do that at your concert, do that where it's your people only, where, like you said, taking up the time, taking up the space, following a rule.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_04: And a lot of these venues just, you know, are not capable of holding that much, you know, lumber.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_04: It's almost just lumber.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm I'm curious.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_04: We sort of talked a tiny bit, Courtney, you just did about pet peeves.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_04: Who has some some pet peeves that uh stray away from giant set pieces?
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_04: Because clearly we all don't enjoy that.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: I have a pet peeve as far as respecting your space.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: I have literally sat in the judge's seat and watched people push giant sets of stairs and rip rip the Marlin and then push it off, watch the competition staff have to run and tape it in a panic, and then later them bring out the same set of stairs for another dance or whatever.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_01: Again.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's incredibly disrespectful to both your venue, your fellow dancers, other contestants.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, 100%.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_04: Well, because I mean, serving as director this year, that happened multiple times, and I had to, you know, ring my backstage staff and say, oh my god, please tell them to carry that.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_04: Like that is the that is our Marley.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_04: That is the only Marley we have.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_04: If you rip up my Marley, what what am I supposed to do?
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_04: You know, like there's not another option.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_04: So, you know, invest in a dolly, invest in casters or whatever they're called, like the little, you know, wheels and stuff, or felt, or whatever you have to do to put on the bottom of your stuff, because don't drag your stuff across my property.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_04: It just it's respect, like you said, and I think that's that's a huge pet peeve.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: I think that I'm we'll probably even talk about the same studio or the same thing, is because I remember this past season, and I've seen it prior, but because it's so new to or so fresh on my memory, is a large lyrical group dragged a bench, a park bench on stage.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: And there's nothing that says to me about a park bench that it needs to move.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like, why would a park bench need to move?
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: Number one, like if we're in reality, yeah.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_00: You're trying to create a scene on stage and you're in a park and it's nighttime, and you know, there's also a lamppost or something.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: Number one, you're we're stepping outside of of the realms of reality most of the time, anyway, in in the competition world.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: But if that prop is gonna move, weird.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: Number two, the kids didn't pick it up, it was dragged, and then it tipped at some point.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: So then if there's a dancer on that prop, then now it's hazardous to everybody that's there.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: And then as a as a dance adjudicator, as a judge sitting behind the table, I'm now worried about this kid.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: What did you guys say, Susie?
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: Now I'm now worried about Susie falling from the bench on the stage, and that's where my focus is going.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not looking at the artistry, I'm not looking at the choreography, I'm not looking at your feet, I'm not looking at your turnout, I'm looking to see if these dancers are going to be safe on stage.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_00: That is a huge, a huge pet peeve of mine.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I can get around if things are moved on stage, but like if you haven't even thought through, like if you've only moved it in your studio and a prop dad or mom or anyone has not thought about maybe maybe we need to put something on the bottom of this, or maybe this doesn't make any sense for it to move.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: If it's if it's gonna be dangerous at some point along the way, you're making us think about that.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's just like it to me, it's the exact same thing as not pinning a headpiece in or double knotting your tattoos.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_05: Yep.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, it is.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_05: Absolutely.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_05: I'm the same, I I have so much to say about all of this.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_05: I'm so glad we we uh, Aaron, you brought up the like respecting this like stage because that is a ginormous pet peeve of mine as well.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_05: And I'm gonna go back to the rose petals.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_05: Y'all know we've seen it.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_05: Where did that start?
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_05: That I think that was So You Think Season One, probably.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_05: But like So You Think You Can Dance.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, exactly.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, okay.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I meant season one of So You Think.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was Shannon even before that.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: Mather, I think she did something with rose petals like years and years ago.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_04: Yep.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_00: She may not have been the first, but definitely the first mainstream like on YouTube that everybody saw in the dance competition world.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: And then they did it on So You Think You Can Dance.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_00: But those were those were artistic pieces, and they were necessary to continue on with the story.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: And what I'm sure you're about to say is what you're about to say.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_05: My thoughts on the rose petals is that yes, it's overdone, and and throughout time we've seen different ways.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_05: I call it littering the stage, is what I call it.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_05: You're littering things all over the stage, and then you and then the floor becomes an unsafe dance surface where you could step on a rose petal with your little foot paw that everyone wears and slide and fall.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_05: And it's a safety habit.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_04: It might as well be a banana peel.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_04: Yes at that point, really.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_05: Like it's an ice skating rink, it's a disaster, it's it's an accident waiting to happen.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_05: And although it's very, very visually beautiful for the one moment that you threw, the one moment.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it does not become beautiful once it's all over the floor.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_04: It is beautiful for that photographic moment.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_05: I'm I'm truly scared at that point.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_05: And I have been in situations as a professional dancer where we've thrown confetti on the stage and then I have to dance on it afterwards.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_05: Terrifying I slip and fall.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_05: Like I have that trigger in my head that I'm just waiting for something bad to happen.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_05: So I'm not even able to enjoy the piece after that point unless it's done very, very well.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_05: So like I don't love a littering of the stage.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_05: The next pet pee that goes alongside that is when studios just litter the stage and leave at the end.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_05: And don't clean it up.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_05: And had no plan in place.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_05: Because I've watched it happen.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_05: There was one studio once that had buckets of like tiny little baby confetti shards, like star confetti and like circle confetti.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_05: That was like what like for craft room, you know, like kindergarten crafts.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_05: Grab handfuls of that and like the 50 people on stage confetti burst at the end as like the grand finale, which cool looks cool at the time.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_05: But then there's confetti baby sparkles everywhere.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_05: And not a single person was ready to clean it up from that studio.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_05: No one had brooms, no one had any vacuum, nothing.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_05: They just expected the competition staff.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_05: I'll clean up my mess.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_05: And that to me is so disrespectful.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_05: I immediately, like on their exit, said, Hope you guys have some people backstage ready to clean this up.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_05: And if not, I'm taking points off your score.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_05: Because to me, that's just disrespecting the people that come after you.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_05: It's disrespecting the backstage staff who are working long hours and so their job is hard.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_05: So to just assume that someone's gonna clean your mess up, did you need your confetti?
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_05: Absolutely not.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_05: You didn't.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_05: You did not need that.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_05: So I I'm totally about safety and respect.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_05: I think that's my biggest pet peeves when it comes to props.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_04: And Rob, like you said, the minute something is precarious on stage, your critique is over for me.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_04: Totally.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_04: Because now you you you have done it to yourself.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_04: You have not prepared properly for me to be able to critique your dance because now all I can worry about is the safety of your dancer.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_04: And that comes down to what number one, respect.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_04: But number two, just preparing for every possible scenario.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_04: You know, you have to sandbag things, you have to weight things down, you have to put things on rollers with brakes.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_04: And that's that's the thing that kills me is when people are like, they they've done half of the job.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_04: They're like, okay, well, we're not gonna drag this giant table in.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_04: We're gonna put it on rollers, but then we're gonna make the kids dance on it.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_04: And there's no brakes on these wheels.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_04: And I it's just it is it is the scariest thing to sort of be helpless and watch something, you know, potentially crash and burn while you're also still trying to do a job.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: I also think it's about teaching your students to be prof future professionals on stage.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_00: Because as professionals and you know, uh, you a hat falls on stage when you're in a professional musical theater show, it's who can get to it first.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: Because we all know that as a as an adult, like you're not gonna dance around someone's hat on stage.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_00: But for some reason in dance, the dance studio world and competition studios, they don't teach that, which is really strange to me.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_04: It's so confusing.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I actually taught at a studio once that the studio director, who was also a choreographer, told the kids, like, if your hat falls off, leave it, don't touch it.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, that's the craziest thing I think I've ever heard in my entire life.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: I also think talking talking about like the respect from Erin and Courtney, that subject matter, there's been so many times that I've seen people it's choreographed, not always, but sometimes like they they'll take a piece of a costume and and throw it, and then they'll exit.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_00: And it maybe it's not a huge bucket of rose petals, but it's like I remember one time at Nationals a little girl took a banana out of her hat, and it was cute because it was like a Chiquita banana like solo, or that like um whatever that Miss Banana song is, and then it sat there for three numbers all the way upstairs.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_00: No, but for other people's solos, and for some reason, then the competition like staff didn't notice it either, and I'm the I'm the only one.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just sitting there I can't get anyone, I can I can only pass a sticky note as fast as I can pass a sticky note.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not gonna stand up and like wave my arms and say, hold the competition for the banana.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_00: But that's like that to me is disrespectful that someone was like, Okay, and on the third count of eight, you're gonna throw your banana upstage.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's gonna be so funny, but then not talk about how you're gonna retrieve that banana.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_04: Exactly.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_04: Then you never think of the banana again.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_04: You have lost the banana.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_05: I want to quickly go back to what you just talked about, Rob, which I have two things to say about it.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_05: One, in the professional dance world, we as dancers usually are moving props ourselves in a professional stage production sets and props sets, yeah.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_05: So if there's a table that has to enter stage, we as the ensemble are on stage left with two people on each and carrying that prop out.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_05: Do we always need a prop dad or a another dancer from another from the studio?
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_01: Aaron is ready for this one.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_01: Carry the prop.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_01: I have I have such strong feelings on that.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_05: Tell me, because it drives me insane.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_01: It the oh my gosh, this drives me absolutely crazy.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_01: So I grew up competing more so with like the convention competitions.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_01: So to me, I find that they tend to be a little bit more strict about props.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like you adhere to that 90-second setup prop time and you practice it in the studio.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_01: So when I started teaching, my kids wanted to do props because at that time everybody, you know, had a prop, and I was like, okay, well, you're gonna have to carry this prop on by yourself because I can't get other kids ready in the back and be here and be there and carry your props on.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of the competitions that we attended that had conventions that parents couldn't bring them on stage.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like it it it listed in the rules, you're you know, bring the prop on yourself, basically.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: So now when I'm a judge, I'm sitting here not only am I watching a teacher and four other students bring on five chairs, adjust them half of an inch, stand back, adjust them.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, the stage is clearly marked, we're the center stage.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_01: If you're the teacher and you can't see that center stage mark, don't adjust those chairs.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_01: It should happen.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_01: I get it if maybe they're little and can't carry it, but if they're 16 years old, choreograph the entrance with the chair, put it down.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_01: Secondly, it is a major pet peeve of mine when prop dads or prop parents, a lot of times it's prop dads, make a giant production of themselves.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's not cute when we're sitting watching your 20-minute assembly process, and then you dance on the stage, point out, you know, and you hear go prop.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's not cute.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's adding so much time, and I feel so bad saying this, but in my head, I'm going, okay, this is not cute.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_01: Let's get off the stage, let's get on with the competition.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_01: Because I know in two minutes after the dance is done, we're gonna have the same 20-minute thing happen all over again.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I have very strong feelings on that.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_05: I have the same feelings, Aaron.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_05: I'm I'm so with you.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_05: It drives me insane when if, like you said, the chair example.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_05: If there's six dancers in the dance, each dancer has a chair, they have other dancers aren't that aren't in the dance carry their chairs on stage for them, place them where they don't know where they belong because they're not in the dance, and then they leave, and then the dancers walk out to their chair.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_05: And then they probably also move it because it still wasn't in the right spot.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_05: So you could have held your own chair and walked your chair on stage yourself.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_05: Like it just it I don't know where that disconnects.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_04: I wonder if it's something having to do with like the feeling of we want the reveal, you know.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_04: Like we in a in an ideal world, we would close a curtain and then they would open and babam, there's the the scene.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_04: I think that's sort of like the desire of people to be like, let's let's other people set it up so that the first thing that the judges see is the dancers.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_04: But it's not because I'm watching them.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_04: And that's the thing, it's not.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_04: And so that's what I'm wondering.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_04: It's like for listeners out there who have had your 17 prop people come out and put a chair on the stage.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_04: We I I see you.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_04: I s it would I we see you.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, like we we don't have that curtain scenario.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_04: Like, yeah, that would be ideal to like have the big reveal, and I understand the desire for that, but it's not that.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_04: So, like, bring your own chair on stage.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're not going to, if if you're trying to create that essence of a reveal, practice it in the studio.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_01: Practice it, practice it.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_01: This is how center stage is found.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_01: This is you've got, I'm gonna give you literally 20 seconds to walk on with that prop and practice it.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's choreography.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, it's yeah, it just has to be done.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_04: The same thing with cleaning up your rose puddles, and you know, it has to be choreographed.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_04: There's it shouldn't be haphazard, it shouldn't be a secondary thought.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_04: It is part of the routine if you're choosing to do that.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_05: As a dance teacher or choreographer, I am sure you have felt the pain of trying to remember all of your transitions and formation changes when creating a new dance for competition.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_05: Or maybe you have always used a notebook to store your choreography notes.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_05: Now you can ditch the pen and paper all thanks to a brand new app called Arrange Us.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_05: Arrange Us is a mobile app that allows you to visualize your formations on stage in a convenient and easy way.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_05: Just add your dancers straight into the app, and then you can move them around effortlessly with the tip of your finger.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_05: Sounds easy, right?
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_05: You can watch your transitions come to life.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_05: Color coordinate your dancers, and once you are done, you can even share it with your team.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_05: And one of my favorite features from Arrange Us is you can now synchronize your music with your formation.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_05: This app is a game changer for our dance world, and I highly recommend checking it out.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_05: You can try it now for free by clicking the link in our show notes and downloading the Arrange Us app now in the app store.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_05: And I'm gonna now go back to the other thing that you said, Rob, about the whole I dropped a hat.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_05: I'm gonna be the voice of reason for every dance teacher, every dancer.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_05: If you are listening, please hear it from me.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_05: Please pick up the hat that has anything.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_05: If there is anything that f has fallen off of a dancer's costume, a hat, a glove, a shoe.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_05: I don't care what it is.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_05: If something is not supposed to be on the floor and it is near you while you're dancing, it is your job to pick it up.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_05: Do not go by this age-old rule where we have all of us have no clue where it is.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_05: Never heard of it.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_05: Because when you get to the professional world, like you said, Rob, the goal is to get that whatever that object is off the stage because it becomes a safety hazard.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_05: And I want that to become the norm in competition.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_05: And I all because then it's a distraction for us as the judge.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_05: All I'm doing is watching that hat.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_05: And the whole time I'm like, girl, you're standing right next to the hat.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_05: You rolled right next to the hat.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_05: Pick the hat up.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_05: But the teacher says, Pick it out of the way.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_05: Don't pick it up, just leave it.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_04: Don't because what's like again, I'm trying to get into these other these other thought processes and like the heads of these people who say, Don't pick it up.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_04: Do you think that I am I supposed to suspend disbelief and ignore it?
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_04: Like, do you think the audience, like, is the goal for me to try to ignore that?
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_04: Because we can't.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_04: The the reality is it, like you said, like we've all been saying, it becomes a safety hazard.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_04: Because somebody else is gonna trip over it.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_04: Somebody else is, you know, the table is gonna roll over it, something is going to happen, and that is now all your audience is gonna focus on.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_04: So it behooves you to get it out of the way.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_01: And not only that, but as dancers, as performers, we've all experienced that.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_01: I will personally say, thank you so much for kicking, kicking the hat out of the way, rolling and picking it up, doing a distinct toss.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's it's just not a realistic situation because not only is are is the audience or the judges distracted, but I know that the dancer who's getting ready to take center stage and execute six all second turns is like, oh my god, oh my god, there's a hat, what do I do?
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_01: You know.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_04: Well, and that's part of teamwork.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_04: That's part of the nature of live performance is that anything can happen.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_04: And that, you know, when it comes down to it, no performance is exactly the same every time.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_04: So this is another learning opportunity for for kids to learn how to change something on the fly.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_04: You know, the hat's right there.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_04: I'm doing a role.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_04: I've never had to pick up a hat during that role before, but today's the day.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_04: Like Right.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_01: Adapt, adapt and overcome and and also take, you know, make it a learning curve and and realize that, you know, there's gonna be very, very few performances that are probably 150% truly flawless.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_04: So yeah, well, and then also at the same time, pin your hat.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_04: You know what I mean?
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_04: Like if anything else, it's learning experience to oh man, I that I I used four bobby pins, probably could have used eight.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_05: Or wigs.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, or that, you know, you gotta do what you're gonna do.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_05: Put a put a little elastic around your chin.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_05: I don't care what you do as long as that thing doesn't fall off.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_05: Or it's mainly the usually when the hats fall off, it's when they're using the hat as a prop.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_05: Right, and it's not pinned, yeah.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_05: It didn't go onto their hat.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_05: You know, if they pick it up off their head, put it back on their head, they didn't put it on good enough, the button's in the way or something, you know, there's always something that goes wrong with that.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_05: But that being said, do we feel like there are some types of props or specific props that that dancers should be learning how to work with?
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, absolutely.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_00: Of course.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because I'm when I got to college and we took Fosse classes, and we were we had people like Dana Moore or like Alex Sanchez that were in Fosse on Broadway for coming in, and you could tell the people that had worked with props, with canes and with with ladders or with hats earlier, or even just like big spender, like with the rails across the front.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like, do you know how to pick your leg up and step up onto something?
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_00: Or have you just danced on a barren stage the entire time in your life?
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_00: I think those are wonderful things to teach your young kids of how to be able to figure out how to move.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_00: And Aaron said about heels.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_00: You're hardly ever going to be a professional dancer and not have a pair of character heels on.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_00: What are you waiting for?
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_00: What's taking so long?
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_00: And you don't have to start out in a three-inch Laduca.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_00: Just buy the half-inch Capizio kitten heel and start them out.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I respect they make them for a reason.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I say thank you to all of those studios.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_00: Anytime that I see a kid step on stage with a heel on, no matter what the height, I say thank you for preparing your kids for the professional life and just getting them in heels early because it completely changes changes everything that you do.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_00: The first time that I ever wore character heels in an audition, I was like, I don't, I don't know that I can live past this moment right now.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I know I do the same thing, and I I know personally as a teacher, I am a big proponent of musical theater being in the curriculum that I teach, trying to expose them to different we've talked about this realistic props that they're going to use and and also in the ballet world, you know, you're not gonna do a nutcracker without elaborate props in party scene.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's just not gonna happen.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_01: And there there is there's definitely a time and a place that they that they have to, and heels are a must.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_01: Must, must, must.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_01: Whether you're in the ballet world or the jazz competitive fosse world, you know, you're gonna need to be Exposed to heels at some point.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_04: I think one of the I did a workshop once where like it was of my own choosing.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_04: I the you know studio just said, come in and teach.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_04: And I said, Okay.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_04: Well, I'm gonna do prop classes.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_04: Like I'm gonna, I'm gonna have every combination I do in each class include a prop.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_04: And so the kids had to bring, we brought, we did a purse for who will buy from Oliver.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_04: So everybody had to use their purse because we were in the market.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_04: I used, what else did I use?
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_04: A couple other things that I can't remember right now, but like incorporate that into your summer workshops.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_04: Incorporate that into your, you know, weekend special masterclass or something.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_04: Like have it be incorporated because it is important to learn how to use really anything and make it look natural.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_04: Like it's one thing to, you know, pass a box down the stage, I don't know.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_04: But like if you're it really incorporating it into the choreography, you know, that's when I like to award prop usage.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_04: Because listen, if you're using it well and it makes sense and it's in 75 to 100% of the dance, great.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_04: Show me that.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_04: That's what I want.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_04: Don't put your hat down and leave it there for all lonely.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_00: And if you think that as a choreographer or a studio director, that that it's easy and that you're just gonna say, Oh, I'd like to have a derby for this child's solo or for this group, and you dance 30 minutes a week and rehearse that dance, how do you think that professional dancers on Broadway got to an opening night by just you know, just rehearsing this number for 30 minutes that had like super intricate hat tricks or or like tossing it onto someone else or or anything?
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like I remember watching a this stunning contemporary dance several years ago in Florida where they were in and out of the same t-shirt the entire time.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_02: Oh.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_00: So they were they would like dive into it or they would have it put on them or whatever.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_00: And and I knew one of the kids because she was one of our apprentices at at conventions, and I remember talking to her about it, and she was like, if I ever told you how many hours we rehearsed that dance, you'd probably be shocked because the choreographer was like, This is a very special piece.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_00: It was really reminiscent of like the hurricane that their studio had just lived through, and like she wanted it done right, and she was like, We're not gonna have a prop and then not do it well.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_00: So they rehearsed hours on this one piece, and it was flawless every time I saw it.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_01: I love that, and obviously this is this is slightly different from such a cool idea, like the integrating the shirt.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_01: But if if you're going to integrate using like, let's say a skirt for like a Spanish number, or if you're going to do a you know, they've got those trends of the dresses that peel down from one color to multiple colors, you've got to practice in that because I hate seeing dancers grab an imaginary skirt or seeing dancers, you know, it's because it's such, you know, muscle memory is such a strong thing.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_01: So there's one thing practicing your with your hands swaying, and another thing practicing with your actual costume.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_01: So teachers, please don't have them in these long skirts and then have them practice the week before they go on stage because it's not realistic and it's not going to happen.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_05: 100% I'm so glad you said that.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_05: I was gonna say the exact same thing, Aaron.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_05: And I think that's so important because, like, while while you were saying that Aaron Rob was giving the imaginary, I'm holding my top hat fingers, but thawcy fingers, but there's no hat there.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_05: And then you've watched the dancers.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_05: I have seen it all the time, where the dancers are finally in their costume, they have their top hat, and they're not having air holding.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_04: Right, the air holding.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_05: And the same thing, like you said, like actually physically grabbing your skirt and swooshing it.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_05: I just did a a big musical theater dance that involves a jacket, a blazer, and a hat, a fedora.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_05: And there's a lot of like skimming of the brim in my choreography.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_05: There's a lot of grabbing the lapel of the jacket, and they're they're doing it without it right now.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_05: I told all the dancers, bring some type of jacket to every rehearsal.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_05: You need to get an understanding of what that's gonna feel like because you're gonna accidentally do the opposite on stage if you're not practicing with it.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_05: So, like, I think those skills are important.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_05: I think that's helpful to learn.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_05: I also think that, especially translating into the professional world.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_05: I did a lot of like classic musical theater with like hat tricks and things and when I was younger.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_05: And when you do it for a solo, you can get away with it a little bit more.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_05: But when you get into a group dance and you have to do hatography, just even simple things like the angle of your wrist and what way the hat is being held.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_05: Are we doing like the inside of the hat to the audience?
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_05: Are we flipping it to the side?
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_05: Like those details are so important that when you get to the real world, there's no time to clean.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_05: You have to know exactly what needs to be done, and you need to understand what that feels like in your hand line to be able to achieve that properly.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_05: Same goes with the cane.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_05: Are we parallel?
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_05: Are we on the angle?
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_05: Are we are we horizontal?
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_05: What is the angle of the cane?
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_05: Everybody has to hold it the same way.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_05: Like those are definitely awesome skills that I think I'm looking for.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_05: But I think that the most important thing to mention when it comes to incorporating that type of prop work into any type of dance is it's a risk.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_05: There is a risk involved.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_05: It's another layer you're adding to your technique, your performance, your choreography, your execution.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_05: And now you have a prop to add into the mix.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_05: It better be clean.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_05: If it's if it's just like halfway, whatever, oh, here's a prop, then yeah, we it's not gonna be as effective as you as the choreographer think because it's not a gimmick.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_05: A prop shouldn't be a gimmick.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_05: I think a lot of people think it is, like an easy way out.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_04: And and that's the thing that like this is one of those hard truths that I think we see it so often, and it's rare that anybody really says anything.
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_04: But as Courtney just said, she listed off like 10 things that that make prop usage like an addition to your base level of here's your dance, but then now you're adding all those other things you just said for us to look at and critique.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_04: So a prop is not probably really for your beginner dancer.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_04: I think that's like the juxta, not the juxtaposition, but like the misunderstanding I think that a lot of people have of props is that oh, if I give this beginner dancer who maybe doesn't have a lot of experience a prop, it's gonna make them better, it's gonna make them more memorable, it's gonna, it's gonna be the gimmick that gets me ahead.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_04: When in reality, you're just adding another level of challenge and another thing for us to to take away from, you know what I mean?
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_04: And and and I hate that for y'all.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_04: I hate it for me, I hate it for everybody who's looking for some way to to up the game for some of the dancers that may not have a lot of experience.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_04: And I I think we're here to tell you that that's not like a prop is for a more advanced dancer who already has all these base level skills to then add some enhancement, to add some flourish and add another level of difficulty because what it is is a level of difficulty.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'm wondering also if it would be okay to talk about prop appropriateness as far as I have seen some kind of inappropriate topics.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like I have seen somebody come on stage in a wheelchair and be quote unquote paralyzed and then execute a large number of acro tricks and then pretend she can't walk.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_01: I've seen a Helen Keller with a well.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_01: I have seen just I'm I'm trying to think of some other I had it before I bridged this topic.
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_01: But I I think that there's there's got to be a level of a of appropriateness.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_01: I have uh oh, I know, pet peeve of mine, signs.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_01: If you're doing a deep lyrical piece, it might not be as deep as you think if you have to spell it out.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_01: Take a sign and then change it and then to spell your topic about.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's a big pet peeve of mine because it's so it's distracting.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not there to read your, you know, human trafficking dance statistics on stage.
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_01: I want to see dance.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_04: I I think that's really important to to bring up, and I'm glad you did because, you know, and it does somehow tend to be those sort of very touchy subjects and very deep topics, you know, that I think we have also, you know, we explored that a little bit, Rob, in your age appropriateness episode last season.
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_04: It it doesn't come down to just the actual topic, but the props that you use, which could, you know, potentially be offensive to someone.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_04: Like I don't, I don't You said the wheelchair situation, and that kind of cut me to the core because that just that's appropriation of somebody's lived experience.
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_01: That's not yours.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_01: And that is uncomfortable for me.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, it did me as well.
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I and I specifically remember saying, you know, this might we we need to remember to be empathetic for others that might actually be in this this situation because I just I don't know, I I just that that to me was was harsh.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_01: And then to go from that into you know, an acro spear back into the wheelchair was just unnecessary.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I've done lots of as a teacher, as a young teacher, I have done lots of stupid choices with props, like looking back in hindsight, I'm like, what was I thinking?
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like I know it was you know, there was a time where everybody had to have a prop.
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_01: There was a few years, and I look back and I'm like, Oh my goodness, what was I thinking?
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like the relevance of this prop was absolutely, completely unnecessary.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't use the prop effectively.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_01: I remember distinctly like going to a competition and getting like ripped with critiques for the prop.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, okay, we're we're gonna get rid of that prop.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_01: So please for taking this too.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for taking the advice.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_01: Well, absolutely.
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I was, you know, I was very young at the time, but I think that it's important that you listen to what your you know your judges say because it's not it's it's not a personal attack against you, it's just a way to make your dance better and to make your dancers better.
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_01: So and like the appropriate.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_01: Totally.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_05: And I think I wish that more teachers would, you know, like we said from before, we're not hating on props.
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_05: We love a prop if it's done well.
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_05: It needs to be used and it needs to be done well, it needs to be cleaned.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_05: Going back to the appropriateness of props, I I'm just gonna say it.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_05: I something as simple as a chair prop can get a little too sexual on the stage, a little too.
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, and we might not realize, oh, it's just a chair, we're just doing this.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_05: Like, I can't tell you the amount of times I've seen uh people sit on the chair and do a fan kick facing the front, you know, like sitting on it and double fan.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_05: And I'm like, couldn't why did you face that angle?
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_05: Like, I we could flip around, never happen, do the other way, face the back, like achieve the same thing, and then just some of the moves that we're choosing to do on the prop, it it turns into almost like burlesque-ish dancing and their children.
• 54:59
  SPEAKER_05: So while I think chairography is also really great and can be very unique and fun, I think we have to also make sure that it doesn't read too inappropriate for the age and the level of dancer and then add, you know, mixing that with this the costuming, mixing that with the song.
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_05: Like appropriateness goes with chairography as well.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_05: I I I specifically think of chairs when I think of, you know, uh a little slightly inappropriate too mature.
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_05: Or poles.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_05: Yes, a pole.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_05: I've seen poles as well.
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_05: At dance competition?
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, like a big set piece with the with a pole, and then they'll do some spins on it or you know, flip upside down and do like a splat.
• 55:39
  SPEAKER_05: And like those are hard skills, and I think that like doing pole dancing is a very hard, hard, hard job.
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_05: Like it's a hard skill, upper body strength.
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_05: It's yeah, it's an art in itself, right?
• 55:50
  SPEAKER_05: But it sometimes can come across in like a weird way for a competition.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_01: Time in a time in a place and definitely not needed for an 11-year-old.
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_04: No, exactly.
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_04: And like, yeah, I think we could we could probably do a whole episode on the pole dancing world because it is a skill.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_04: It is a beautiful skill and it's got acro involved and like cirque skills and everything, but like context, time and place, music selection, age, costuming, I mean, all the things.
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know about y'all, but I've also seen, you know, walk walking to the judge's room, I remember distinctly at a nationals, so I'm not quite sure how it made it to the nationals, but I have seen people literally like somebody was putting together a big Barbie house with stickers, with a glue gun, with paint.
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, wait a second, how did we get to nationals without having our prop made?
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_01: And why are we sitting in the hallway painting our prop and taking up we we've got to get, and that I probably should have said that earlier, as far as respecting your space, but we be ready, be prepared.
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_04: Prop etiquette is for sure something to think about, which I think we did sort of maybe touch on, you know, earlier with just the respecting of the space.
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_04: And you know, don't don't litter the stage, bring your prop on yourself, bring your prop on yourself, don't please please please limit the building of props to please your workshop, not our venue.
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_05: So we talked we talked a lot about like things we've seen and things that we don't love and and things like that, but there have there ever been props that you've seen done so well, or any type of set piece that was used that is so memorable to you to this day, like out of all of your years judging or being a dance teacher that you'll never forget.
• 57:36
  SPEAKER_01: I saw a fantastic piece I think it was in Alabama, and it was this the name of the song escapes me.
• 57:43
  SPEAKER_01: It was a Florence piece, and they had this boat, and it was done.
• 57:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like the dancing was fantastic.
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_01: They used somebody was in contact, like effective contact with the boat a hundred percent of the time.
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_01: It was shipped to wreck, is was it by Florence and machine, and it was amazing.
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like you watched the piece and you literally felt like you were in this uh just destructive current of ocean, and it was amazing.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_01: There was nothing that detracted from the piece, there was nothing to that like camouflaged a certain section or dancers.
• 58:22
  SPEAKER_01: It was just it was really well done.
• 58:23
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't overbearing.
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_01: The dancers brought it on themselves.
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_01: It was a safe prop, well rehearsed, and just probably one of the best ones I've seen.
• 58:31
  SPEAKER_01: That sounds awesome.
• 58:32
  SPEAKER_01: Sounds good.
• 58:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think I I I think there's probably tons that I can think of that I've loved, uh, especially props.
• 58:41
  SPEAKER_00: Uh there's a one studio that I that I have worked with a lot in the past and judged, and they're very, very smart and about their choices, and and I have seen like the bow of a ship before, and it was really beautifully done.
• 58:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember seeing um a dance with parasols, umbrellas that were that were not just it's rain and men, but what they did a dance, but it was very kind of um reminiscent of art pieces, and they would hit very interesting, like kind of mural poses and would move through them and everything.
• 59:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's like like I said earlier, when something's done really well and and it strikes a chord with you, then you memorize it and then you remember it forever.
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_00: I remember exactly what that parasol looked like.
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_00: I remember the color of the of the girls' costumes in that dance, what c what their hat looked like.
• 59:30
  SPEAKER_00: I remember what the what the male dancer, male identifying dancer was wearing in that piece.
• 59:35
  SPEAKER_00: I remember some of the lifts that they did, like those kinds of things.
• 59:38
  SPEAKER_00: I also remember years and years ago, one of my first ever dance competitions, judging, it was a an enormous production number, and they had I want to say it was circusy, and they had a lira on stage at one point that was revealed.
• 59:53
  SPEAKER_00: And dancers, someone had done real training in in aerial work, and it was beautiful to see on stage because it was all of these other things, and then there was a kid doing like full spins upstage on a lira on a dance competition stage, and I was like, wow, this is so beautifully done.
• 1:00:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like, where do you go from there?
• 1:00:13
  SPEAKER_00: How do you get any better?
• 1:00:15
  SPEAKER_00: Because they've done their research and and they've they've stepped outside of dance competition normal C and they've they've gone even further than that to blow your mind because they're learning new skill sets.
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_01: I love what you said about being smart with your choices, because there is so much that can be done sometimes by using less that makes a more profound aesthetic impact to the audience.
• 1:00:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I just I think that that's just genius to bring up being smart with your prop choices, and I can't say enough about that.
• 1:00:51
  SPEAKER_05: I agree because when it comes to being smart about your prop choices, because I as a judge I've said this probably before on the podcast, that like we as judges start to get to know your studio throughout the weekend.
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_05: So we start to see like different studio habits, which we're actually going to be doing a podcast episode about that, but like not just the studio habits, but like what your style is.
• 1:01:12
  SPEAKER_05: Like this is your go-to this, or you got you guys like to wear this in your hair, or this is you guys always use this type of music and things like that.
• 1:01:21
  SPEAKER_05: But then there's sometimes the prop studio.
• 1:01:25
  SPEAKER_05: And always and I would just like to say that you probably don't want to be labeled as the prop studio by your judges.
• 1:01:34
  SPEAKER_05: So if you watch your dances before the season starts and you notice, I mean, how have you not figured this out?
• 1:01:42
  SPEAKER_05: But you notice, wow, we really do use a prop in every single dance or 75% of the dances, then maybe we need to cut that back to 25%.
• 1:01:54
  SPEAKER_05: That way you don't become the prop studio.
• 1:01:56
  SPEAKER_05: Because again, like we've talked about this whole time, you're adding that layer of risk.
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_05: And unless those props are done flawlessly, I mean, do we really need an entire like trailer hauling props to the competition?
• 1:02:10
  SPEAKER_05: I'm gonna say no.
• 1:02:11
  SPEAKER_05: Like as a judge, I'm gonna say no.
• 1:02:13
  SPEAKER_05: I don't need that.
• 1:02:15
  SPEAKER_05: We don't need it.
• 1:02:16
  SPEAKER_05: We wanna see dancing.
• 1:02:17
  SPEAKER_05: And if you have a few props here and there or you need a set piece for your for your production number that you're gonna use your levels and it's it makes or breaks it, whatever, that's fine.
• 1:02:26
  SPEAKER_05: But we wanna you want your prop dances to be those memorable dances that we just talked about.
• 1:02:32
  SPEAKER_05: Something as simple as an umbrella and a parasol.
• 1:02:36
  SPEAKER_05: Like that is a very small prop.
• 1:02:38
  SPEAKER_05: That's how you want to be remembered.
• 1:02:40
  SPEAKER_05: I remember one that actually was a pretty big kind of set piece, and this is really random, and I'm sure they got stole this idea from someone, but it was kind of like a barricade wall, like almost mid-stage.
• 1:02:51
  SPEAKER_05: So it did take up half the stage, which I was kind of mad about because it limited the amount of space they could dance.
• 1:02:58
  SPEAKER_05: So, like mid-stage barricade wall, but they had like a crash pad hidden behind it, so they'd climb up to the top and just like do like death falls backwards onto the crash pad, and it was really exciting.
• 1:03:09
  SPEAKER_05: And even though I was kind of bummed that they had less space to dance downstage, I was still like it still was memorable because I was like, this is kind of cool.
• 1:03:18
  SPEAKER_05: Like I would have the first time they did it, I was terrified.
• 1:03:21
  SPEAKER_05: You know, they just fall backwards into the nothing, and it's not like kids are catching them, it's just a crash pad.
• 1:03:25
  SPEAKER_05: So I was like, this is pretty awesome.
• 1:03:27
  SPEAKER_05: Like, good job with this clever prop usage.
• 1:03:30
  SPEAKER_05: And they used it the whole time.
• 1:03:31
  SPEAKER_05: Everybody was jumping onto the crash pad back there.
• 1:03:34
  SPEAKER_05: So the visual was cool, but again, like that was that was memorable.
• 1:03:38
  SPEAKER_05: But then if you have a trillion other props, then it's like, huh.
• 1:03:41
  SPEAKER_05: Right, it was just another one.
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, just another prop.
• 1:03:44
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:03:44
  SPEAKER_04: I watched my favorite memorable thing from this past season was really on the nose.
• 1:03:49
  SPEAKER_04: It was turning tables by Adele, which you don't hear very often.
• 1:03:52
  SPEAKER_04: So I was excited to hear that.
• 1:03:54
  SPEAKER_04: But they had a table and it was on wheels.
• 1:03:57
  SPEAKER_04: And at first I was like, okay, so they're gonna like rotate the table a couple times and whatever.
• 1:04:01
  SPEAKER_04: These dancers, that table was everywhere on the stage.
• 1:04:05
  SPEAKER_04: They were like running and like surfboarding on it, and I was terrified the whole time.
• 1:04:10
  SPEAKER_04: But as the dancers kept dancing, I was like, oh, they have rehearsed this to the nth degree.
• 1:04:16
  SPEAKER_04: Nothing is going wrong on the stage, but they rehearsed it in a way that like I had that fear of like, oh my God, what's gonna happen?
• 1:04:23
  SPEAKER_04: But it added to the suspense.
• 1:04:25
  SPEAKER_04: And it just, and and they were amazing dancers.
• 1:04:27
  SPEAKER_04: The choreography was just brilliant.
• 1:04:29
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm so sad I only got to see it once because like I can see it.
• 1:04:32
  SPEAKER_04: It's one of those things, like you said, Rob, you memorize what you loved about it and how well it was done.
• 1:04:37
  SPEAKER_04: But that was something that I think is important to note too, that like I could just tell that they had rehearsed this in such a way that it was foolproof.
• 1:04:46
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it looked like it was dangerous and risky, but I could tell, like, and they did occasionally like put the brakes on whenever somebody needed to stand there and it didn't need to move.
• 1:04:55
  SPEAKER_04: Like they it they had mitigated the risk by doing whatever they could to keep it safe, but also still keep it entertaining and daring and interesting.
• 1:05:03
  SPEAKER_04: So I think all of our examples have included safety and rehearsal to the nth degree, so that there is no chance of something happening that's crazy or something, you know, unsubstantiated happening because they've rehearsed it.
• 1:05:18
  SPEAKER_05: Well, y'all, we talked about a lot of props.
• 1:05:23
  SPEAKER_05: And I loved every second of this discussion.
• 1:05:25
  SPEAKER_05: It's so needed.
• 1:05:27
  SPEAKER_05: And I hope that all of the listeners out there, whether you're a dance parent whose kid is using a prop this season or has in the past, or if you're a dance dad, or if you're a dance dad who's making the props, please put brakes on them.
• 1:05:39
  SPEAKER_05: Please, please build them safely.
• 1:05:42
  SPEAKER_05: Nice and sturdy.
• 1:05:43
  SPEAKER_05: So, you know, you use as many nails as you need to use, as much lumber.
• 1:05:48
  SPEAKER_05: I hope you have a big budget.
• 1:05:51
  SPEAKER_05: And we we love the the dance dads.
• 1:05:54
  SPEAKER_05: Shout out to all the prop dads who make set pieces come to life and are the go to props.
• 1:05:59
  SPEAKER_05: I think I I actually love that because the dads feel included in in the dance world at that, you know.
• 1:06:06
  SPEAKER_05: If they have their moment, I like when they have their shirts and they're so prompt with funny sayings and they love their dance dad shirts.
• 1:06:13
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:06:13
  SPEAKER_04: They they do more than just pay the bills, which you see that shirt a lot too.
• 1:06:16
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:06:17
  SPEAKER_04: It's like, don't ask me, I just pay the bills.
• 1:06:19
  SPEAKER_04: Um you build the props.
• 1:06:20
  SPEAKER_04: So we do, you know, for for the dance parents out there who do spend the time and the money and the interest to do that for your dancers, like that doesn't go unnoticed.
• 1:06:29
  SPEAKER_04: It is appreciated.
• 1:06:30
  SPEAKER_04: I I do hope it's appreciated by your studio owners and everybody who's requested these giant set pieces.
• 1:06:36
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I I definitely think so.
• 1:06:38
  SPEAKER_05: And I always will mention a beautiful looking prop in my critiques.
• 1:06:43
  SPEAKER_05: Great work on that prop.
• 1:06:44
  SPEAKER_05: It looks great, matches the costume, whatever it is.
• 1:06:46
  SPEAKER_05: If it, if it looks now, if there's like a uh iffy kind of looking prop on, like you know, there's paint missing or the colors aren't right or something, I'll be like, maybe we gotta fix that a little bit.
• 1:07:00
  SPEAKER_05: But we love and appreciate you, prop dads, and uh I hope that some of the dance teachers learned a little bit of what the judges are really looking for when it comes to prop usage and comes to set pieces within this episode.
• 1:07:12
  SPEAKER_05: And I'd love to thank Erin and Rob for joining us today.
• 1:07:17
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for having us.
• 1:07:18
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 1:07:19
  SPEAKER_01: Of course.
• 1:07:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, thanks so much for having us.
• 1:07:22
  SPEAKER_05: So uh to lead us out, we usually have our guests give one final bit of advice.
• 1:07:29
  SPEAKER_05: Anything you want to say to the world that is listening about props at competition.
• 1:07:35
  SPEAKER_05: Ready, set, go.
• 1:07:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:07:37
  SPEAKER_00: Be careful of triggers, guys.
• 1:07:39
  SPEAKER_00: We talked about that earlier of pet peeves, and we mentioned wheelchairs.
• 1:07:44
  SPEAKER_00: I just ask that you as the competition world bringing your dancers to stage, that you remember that sometimes things can affect people in the audience in the opposite way of what you're hoping for.
• 1:07:56
  SPEAKER_00: If you're trying to get a story across that means something to you, it may mean something completely differently to someone in the audience, and it may be in all seriousness a trigger, i.e., things such as like IV bags on stage, or some sort of costume piece that might represent a disease or a disorder that for them they might be in therapy about, or that they might be working through their own uh their own demons in their life.
• 1:08:23
  SPEAKER_00: Just take into consideration anybody and everybody that might be in the audience and do it tastefully.
• 1:08:29
  SPEAKER_01: Be smart, be relevant, be economical with your time, other people's time.
• 1:08:36
  SPEAKER_01: Just think before you build, think before you do, think before you bring on stage, and please rehearse.
• 1:08:46
  SPEAKER_05: We hope you enjoyed this week's episode all about prop potential.
• 1:08:50
  SPEAKER_05: You can find our guests on social media.
• 1:08:53
  SPEAKER_05: Rob at rob.gibbs and erin at erandance2014.
• 1:08:58
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• 1:09:07
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• 1:09:15
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• 1:09:22
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• 1:09:28
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• 1:09:31
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• 1:10:06
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• 1:10:17
  SPEAKER_04: We are on a roll in season three with some excellent episodes coming your way.
• 1:10:21
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