Latest / The Christian Reeve Podcast / Life After Death With Josh Leonard | The Christian Reeve Podcast #200

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Life After Death With Josh Leonard | The Christian Reeve Podcast #200 · The Christian Reeve Podcast

• 0:00
  Hello, and welcome to not just any episode episode. 200 of the
• 0:06
  Christian Reef podcast, it's a special episode.
• 0:09
  We have a special guest here, mr.
• 0:10
  Josh, Leonard of the pursuit of infinity podcast, who's been on
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  the show previously, I've been on his show.
• 0:15
  Thank you very much for joining me, Josh.
• 0:17
  And today, we're going to be Exploring Life After Death and
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  the afterlife still haven't settled on exactly what the
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  title is going to be, but something around there.
• 0:27
  And yeah, this this is going to be a bit of a weird episode.
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  I guess we're kind of going to talk about this in depth and
• 0:34
  kind of go from topic to topic that we normally would but I
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  don't know I guess it's just going to kind of be a
• 0:39
  back-and-forth and we'll see where we end up and it kind of
• 0:43
  reminds me like we're not even when I was on your show.
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  You were on mine. We ended up talking about a
• 0:48
  bunch of stuff that I just didn't have written down and I
• 0:51
  was just like, this is awesome but I just didn't have it, but I
• 0:56
  feel like those are the best conversations generally but
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  yeah, let's dive into firstly. What the meaning of life after
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  death is like at the heart of it.
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  Because obviously and it's called we're talking about the
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  concept of there being life after death.
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  So when we die in this realm, is there something else?
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  And I guess what we're really talking about is the spirit, you
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  know, obviously we know the body dies that that's just life.
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  That just what happens, we're born, we live, we die. but do we
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  continue does our spirit live on and there's a lot of Arguments
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  for and against this, which I find pretty interesting.
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  A lot of the research that I did tended to tap into religion and
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  philosophy and stuff, and I'll just kind of run down a few of
• 1:49
  the religious beliefs for a second.
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  So, in Christianity, it's believed that when we die our
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  spirit and body separate, and even though our body dies, our
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  spirit, the essence of who we are lives on.
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  This is pretty consistent across many different.
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  Current belief systems in the world.
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  This idea, you know, it wasn't always necessarily called the
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  spirit, sometimes people kind of refer to it more as like a sense
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  of energy or something like something bigger than ourselves.
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  They also believe we enter a spirit world which there is like
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  a kind of like a waiting period until we received as if it at
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  the gift of Resurrection. I got this from a religious
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  websites. This is some of this terminology
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  no disrespect. It's That's when our spirits
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  will reunite with our bodies. Now, this is interesting, this
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  line here, this idea of reuniting with our bodies
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  because as I mentioned at the beginning, our bodies die, we
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  die. But right here it's kind of
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  saying at some point. We may reconnect with our body
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  which I don't know how that would be possible.
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  Unless you literally mean like Rebirth of the bully like re
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  construction of the body and if I remember correctly, the idea
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  of Judgment Day. A is exactly that this idea that
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  you're risen from the grave and remade and judged, which sounds
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  terrifying. And yeah, just says here, our
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  future resurrected body cannot die and will be perfect free
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  from Pain sickness and Imperfections.
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  What do you make of that? Josh?
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  And I'm just dumped a lot of heavy stuff on you there, but
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  I'm kind of intrigued to see your initial thoughts on that.
• 3:34
  Well, first of all, thank you so much for having me for your
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  200th episode, man. Congratulations.
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  It's Quite a feat. Yeah.
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  Nah, man, it's mad. I knew, I needed to do something
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  special. It's great to have you here
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  because I feel very comfortable with you.
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  And it's one of the things I kind of learned over the course
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  of doing the show, is that you have lots of different guests
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  and I You're approaching 50. Now on you're very close to 50
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  is like 4447 something like that.
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  As you know, like you the more you do it, the more you kind of
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  realize certain people, you click with certain people.
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  You don't click with and certain people are kind of somewhere in
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  the middle and that's absolutely fine.
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  It's just human nature in its like, when we meet people in
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  real life we click or we don't click but in the context of a
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  podcast and doing a whole show I mean it's like it's difficult.
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  Sometimes I feel like every time it's a Gamble.
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  And but it's an exciting gamble because you never know where
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  you're going to end up. And I honestly, three years, I
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  didn't realize that. I'd still be doing this show.
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  I set myself a goal of doing this for 10 years, so got at
• 4:40
  least do this until 2030. It's so, let's see where we're
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  at when we get 25 years and see if I'm still doing it.
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  But ya know, I had the pleasure is mine - thank you so much for
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  agreeing to do the show, of course of course.
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  And you know when you were talking about real Emerging with
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  your body I think what they're referring to is like a quote on
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  quote astral body because note like they said there's
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  Perfection there's no they're clean.
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  They're and I mean part of being in a biological form is
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  experiencing pain and experiencing external stimuli
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  that causes you to act on the environment in order to survive.
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  So to me, I kind of interpreted that as like an astral body, a
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  Heavenly Body, Yeah, nothing you're right.
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  I probably just so completely missed interpreted that because
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  I like I like to be very critical of religion but I also
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  like to see the positives in it too especially when we're
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  talking about things like this because really science kind of
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  stops at this point. You know, it can, it can give
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  you indications of things continuing on like in the
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  studies that I've done. I know that basic level we know
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  that when you die, there is a little bit of energy that still
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  surrounds your body for a Time. I'm and then it sort of
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  dissipates disappears but energy doesn't die.
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  As I understand. It's just you the body, what you
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  were dies. And this is obviously where
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  religion comes in or spiritual beliefs to come in and you can
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  kind of, I mean, it's I mean, that's kind of what I was
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  thinking with this show as well. It's like, we're not going to
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  come to any conclusions. We're not going to solve
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  anything, we're just going to talk and probably come up with
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  more questions than answers, but I don't know, I kind of feel
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  like, that's what life is about. Really, Especially on our
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  different Rich respective shows. It's like constantly chasing the
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  answers, never getting them but just I don't know obsessing over
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  them still because it's just fascinating.
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  It isn't it? Speaking of fascinating, I was
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  quite interested to see what other religions are saying.
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  So in Islam the afterlife is known as I'm going to butcher
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  this @k here. Ah yeah Kira apologies for any
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  Muslims listening if I mispronounce that it is believed
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  Human existence on Earth is a test from Allah, which I like
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  that idea. If there is a religion, then
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  this is definitely a test, sometimes it's a bit unfair.
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  Moreover, It is believed that Allah will not test people
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  beyond their limits, which I found quite interesting, which
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  kind of implies that we will on different levels.
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  Maybe, I suppose like different we're given different amounts of
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  strength and I've spoken This to people in the past and it's been
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  lots of like disagreements over this.
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  Like you know some people argue wore the same rule capable of
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  the same exact things and I tend to be in that camp but at the
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  same time you know, if you speak to like physical limitations,
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  for example, like there are some things if you're physically
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  limited that, you just won't ever be able to do, because you
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  just can't do me unless science, would get to a point where it
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  could progress. Things significantly further
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  there is just some things and we have to accept sometimes which
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  sucks, but I also kind of interpreted this more from
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  philosophical perspective, like maybe this is more.
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  So about a person's character and sense of being perhaps
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  Muslims, believe that. Once death occurs, the soul will
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  enter the but exact, but it's Oka.
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  Think it's called that, which is a state of kind of existing
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  until the day of judgment. So kind of similar to
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  Christianity, but here's something that's a little bit
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  different. They say that, Allah sends Two
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  Souls angels to question the waiting Soul, which I find this
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  funny. This idea of that being
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  interrogated for everything you've ever done just like.
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  And and the way it says is if the question so answered
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  correctly, the good Soul gets to sleep and also either sleep or
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  enter, the bars are dark and I can't read my own handwriting.
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  This is why I got a printer. If the questions are not
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  answered correctly, the soul is tormented by angels known as the
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  punishment of the something a punishment.
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  So it's very, very different interpretation there, there's
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  some similar similarities but I've often thought found
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  whenever I've studied Islam, that there's a lot more
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  spirituality stuff going on in there which is quite
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  interesting, not to say, there isn't in Christianity, but I
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  feel like a lot of the time when you read aspects of the Quran,
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  you can kind of get a vibe that at some point.
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  The religion was more spiritually based.
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  Let's say it, isn't there? Sara Lee now, but I suppose it
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  really depends, doesn't it? But it depends on
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  interpretations. But yeah.
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  Well, all your kind of thoughts on Islam's interpretation of the
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  afterlife First of all, I think it's intriguing that so many of
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  these like life after death and like spiritual philosophies all
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  include like a Life review or a judgment aspect to them.
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  Whether you talk about Christianity or Islam and I
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  think what what would you what you just read was referring to
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  is like possibly we all are capable of like maybe the same
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  level of greatness or we all have an equally integral role in
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  this whole thing. But we're All on our own
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  individual path. You know, if you think about
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  like what it what it means to find your purpose and to find
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  meaning in life that is it's almost paradoxical because you
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  could say like Shore, like the meaning of life is to live, it's
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  to survive. Biological life wants to pass on
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  genes and wants to survive, but then there's another aspect of
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  it, which is like the personal meaning of life that changes for
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  each individual. And I think that is more of the
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  Show aspect of it because of course the biological aspect
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  having to deal with with survival and evolution.
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  And you know, you can see that you can observe it in nature,
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  but the spiritual aspect of it is most likely to me, finding
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  your purpose, finding the meaning of your own personal
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  life, that's going to guide you toward fulfillment and I
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  completely agree and something that I found quite interesting
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  when I was doing my research and also what I reached out to read
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  it to get people's opinions one person.
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  Floated this idea. Area of Pascal's.
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  Wager you familiar with this. I'm not.
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  So this is interesting. This is based in religion.
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  So give you a bit of context. Obviously, there's many people
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  that argue, you know, you should live your life according to
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  religion. And what you were saying they're
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  like, you know, you're constantly having to review your
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  own life and some people will criticize you for the way you
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  live it. Other people will tell you that
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  you're living at the right way. You know Etc.
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  Like we're constantly judging each other and Yeah.
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  That was where I kind of found this idea of Pascal's wager.
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  Very interesting because, and in the words of Britannica, this is
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  where I got the source. It says, it's a practical
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  argument for belief in God, formulated by French
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  mathematician and philosopher blase Pascal.
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  I think that's how you say his name.
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  Blaise Pascal Buzz, apis Co. So he proposed this in the 1600s
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  and he applied elements of Game Theory.
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  To showed that belief in the Christian religion is rational.
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  He argued that people can choose to believe in God or can choose
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  to not believe in God and their God either exists or he does
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  not. So under these conditions if a
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  person believes in the Christian God and this God actually
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  exists, they can gain infinite happiness.
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  If the person does not believe in the Christian God and God
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  exists, they receive infinite suffering that boom.
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  Oh my God, on the other hand if a person believes in the
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  Christian God, God does not exist.
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  Then they receive some finite disadvantages from a life of
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  Christian Living. I love the way that this is
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  where this is brilliant. I just imagine like some mild
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  annoyance, has you know, an equally if a person does not
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  believe in this God and God does not exist.
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  Then they receive some finite, pleasure from a Life, unhindered
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  by Christian morality, exact words, get out of here as Pascal
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  States. Led us away the gain and the
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  loss in wager. Knowing that God is let us
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  estimate these two chances if you gain you gain all if you
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  lose, you lose nothing, wager, then without hesitation that he
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  is. And as a little bit here, that
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  says American philosopher. William James objected to the
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  argument that it's supported belief in any religion that
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  promised an eternal afterlife others.
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  Have objected though that the argument does give one a reason
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  for not believing in God. So for a reason, for believing
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  in the God. It does not make that belief
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  rational in the proper sense. So, to break that down, really
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  simply in his words, it's a gamble, really, isn't it?
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  It's just the one big gamble. I like to believe if there was a
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  because I personally I'm I sit on the kind of agnostic atheist
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  / spiritual bit like I believe in the Universal energy and
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  people. I'm a big believer of us in
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  science and where that can take us And stuff, but I do kind of
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  believe in things like spiritualism and Taro and stuff.
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  And I'm not putting all my eggs in one basket and saying it's
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  definite, I keep my mind open to everything, all religions, or
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  belief systems. I like to kind of pick and
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  choose and take, what feels right for me.
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  But one thing I've always kind of Taken exception to is this
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  idea that, you know, you have to blindly follow a particular set
• 14:54
  of belief systems or rules. You know, just in case because I
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  think that kind of implies this idea of living in fear like, oh
• 15:03
  well what if this happens? You know what?
• 15:05
  If like and it always makes me think of this this line in the
• 15:12
  TV adaptation of Stephen, King's The Stand, which was for those
• 15:17
  who don't know is but before everyone's time here, you may be
• 15:20
  familiar with it Josh. So the stand is one of Stephen
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  King's best books. Arguably.
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  It's a really, really big book. About basically the world kind
• 15:30
  of gone to shit after a virus and when covid-19 painting
• 15:35
  everyone was drawing a lot of comparisons there basically
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  everyone dies at the flu except for some Choice people who are
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  designated in good Pat back good camp and Bad Camp.
• 15:45
  I employ you to go check it out. I won't ruin the story but there
• 15:49
  is kind of a good Meets Evil kind of trade-off and some some
• 15:54
  interesting story there but anyway.
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  In the good camp, there is a woman.
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  An elderly woman who essentially is marked as like a messenger
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  from God. Like she communicates, God's
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  Will. And there's a guy in the camp,
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  who doesn't believe in God? And ironically, he is probably
• 16:12
  the best out of all of them. Like the most purest goodest
• 16:15
  person but he doesn't believe in God, and there's this scene in
• 16:19
  the TV adaptation, it's like TV movie type deals.
• 16:22
  It's like a mini part series. As I understand Really go check
• 16:26
  it out. He's brilliant.
• 16:27
  But if nothing else. Late 80s, early 90s Nostalgia
• 16:31
  and Rob Lowe's in it and Sally or said, then the one who is in
• 16:35
  Pretty in Pink. Anyway, this this guy, this guy,
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  he's a deaf-mute like he can't speak and he's deaf.
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  She has to write everything on the piece of paper and he passes
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  a note to this guy next to him. And the guy says, oh well, this
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  man doesn't says, he doesn't believe in God.
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  And the woman starts laughing and he's a bit like, taken back
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  by. This is not well, so what's
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  going on? And then she says, it doesn't
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  matter. God believes in you and I don't
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  know, just something about that. Hit me like and I'm not a
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  religious person but like I kind of think if there is a God, I
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  don't think God would care if you believed in him it or not.
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  I think it's more about living a good life and understanding.
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  Being like what it means to be a good person and even that to be
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  honest you could argue is flawed because we decide like that's
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  the thing about human beings. We just make rules for each
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  other did, I mean like it from everything?
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  Like the way we should dress the way we should talk the way we
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  should act in society. The way we should be with each
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  other. Everything is just rules that
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  we've set for each other. And so when you're looking at
• 17:52
  bringing it back to our conversation today, the idea of
• 17:55
  have you lived your life, well enough to less a grant yourself.
• 18:01
  Ticket heaven or, you know, are you going to help over Tori?
• 18:05
  Are you going to these places? It's kind of a fascinating
• 18:10
  argument because it's like who really gets the judge that none
• 18:13
  of us gets the judge that. And when you do ask that, people
• 18:17
  will say, oh well God, like you have to believe in God and trust
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  in God, and just blindly do what God tells you and everything
• 18:24
  will work out and it's like but what?
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  If it doesn't? Because that's what Pascal's
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  wager kind of in Furs and although Pascal was trying to
• 18:31
  more imply that it's better to just believe in God to be on the
• 18:34
  safe side. It does also say that, you know,
• 18:37
  you could Essentially miss out and on certain things in life,
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  you could, I don't know, I think I think religion is best kind of
• 18:45
  gives people a good sense of moral rules to follow and I've
• 18:52
  met some amazing religious people in my life that, you
• 18:54
  know, live a really good life. And they used the religion as
• 18:58
  more of a kind of guide rather than like a, you know, follow
• 19:02
  every rule blindly and then I've met other people who kind of
• 19:06
  take it as like, I need to sit and Every single rule without
• 19:11
  exception and it's just like damn man.
• 19:17
  What if you're wrong though? What if you do something that
• 19:22
  Could cause a problem for you later, down the line.
• 19:24
  But then again, and this is where we're going to go in
• 19:27
  circles. And I'll try to just wrap this
• 19:29
  up now. Like, I guess it really just
• 19:31
  comes down to you have to make a decision for yourself.
• 19:35
  The feels right for you, and it might be, right?
• 19:38
  Might be wrong, but I don't know for me, personally, I just try
• 19:43
  and do what I feel is, right? But what do you make about all
• 19:46
  that? Josh?
• 19:48
  Well, said, first of all, and And the way I interpret, what
• 19:53
  Pascal said is instead of like a gamble based in fear and saying,
• 19:59
  like might as well believe in God, because like if he does
• 20:03
  exist, then like you won't be you know damned to the Lake of
• 20:07
  Fire. What I see it as is like if you
• 20:10
  live your life in a way where you're in, belief of God,
• 20:16
  whether or not you actually believe it's true.
• 20:18
  If you live your life according to God's word and According to
• 20:22
  what say, will, for example, we'll use the Christian God,
• 20:25
  then it seems that your outcome will be more positive because
• 20:30
  the lessons that God, teaches our that of compassion love, you
• 20:36
  know, treat thy neighbor as if they were thyself.
• 20:39
  So this is a Jordan Pederson thing to if you ever listen to
• 20:41
  him, he talks a lot about this when he's interpreting the
• 20:44
  Bible. And he says that if you follow
• 20:48
  your life and you used the word of God and you, you actually act
• 20:52
  as if God exists, then you will have a better outcome, more
• 20:55
  positive relationships, and just an overall, more positive
• 20:59
  outlook on life. But when I look at death, I look
• 21:03
  at it in kind of two different ways, especially when you talk
• 21:06
  about life after death. So the physicalist scientific
• 21:11
  material is Paradigm essentially says that the brain generates
• 21:15
  Consciousness. And when the brain dies, the
• 21:19
  Consciousness goes with it because you can't, Have
• 21:21
  Consciousness without synapses, and neurons in the brain
• 21:25
  communicating with one another and doing their thing.
• 21:27
  As if Consciousness is sort of an emergent aspect that comes
• 21:31
  from the brain. But there's another school of
• 21:33
  thought, which is it's sort of its pants.
• 21:36
  I kissed like, and what it says, essentially that the brain is
• 21:40
  like a radio that tunes into the broadcast of Consciousness and
• 21:45
  that we are surrounded by Consciousness.
• 21:47
  At all times. Consciousness is actually what
• 21:50
  creates Reality and this is sort of the view that I like to think
• 21:55
  of it as and if you look at it from a pants like this view then
• 22:00
  you see that there's something that carries on, it may not
• 22:05
  necessarily be Josh or Christian how we Define ourselves because
• 22:09
  you know the definition of who we are and our identity exists
• 22:12
  within what they call the default mode network of the
• 22:14
  brain. And when that shuts down, it
• 22:17
  seems that we would lose all sense of who we are.
• 22:21
  What we've been through all of that and something would move
• 22:26
  on. And according to some Buddhist
• 22:28
  cultures, there is like a 49 day period in between your death and
• 22:34
  your rebirth, where you get to like, review your life.
• 22:39
  And you get to sort of like based on what you've done, love
• 22:43
  you've given and all the stuff that you've learned you get to.
• 22:46
  Of either choose to hang out there for a little while or you
• 22:49
  get to choose to, like, be Zapped down into a new body into
• 22:52
  a new Incarnation. So there's a lot of interesting
• 22:56
  aspects of Buddhism that I like to apply to a potential life
• 23:00
  after death. Yeah, a lot of the research that
• 23:06
  I read, I will get into this on episode 201.
• 23:09
  When we talk about near-death experiences and me and Josh
• 23:11
  off-camera kind of agreed. We won't talk about this or try
• 23:14
  and like touch on it here and there, but it is inevitably part
• 23:17
  of this. But one thing you do hear,
• 23:19
  people talk about is Life review and going through everything
• 23:25
  that you've kind of gone through in your life and making
• 23:28
  understanding of that and I guess right in that moment,
• 23:35
  you'll decide if it was a life worth living, like if it was
• 23:38
  well lived and I've heard so much over the years.
• 23:44
  I've heard people say, especially when I lived in
• 23:46
  Europe, this idea that like every single lifetime that we
• 23:50
  live. We're trying to learn individual
• 23:52
  lessons for our souls for our Consciousness.
• 23:55
  Like there was this idea expressed to me that Every
• 23:59
  lifetime that you live is just set challenges that you've set
• 24:02
  for yourself and everything is agreed like you choose it
• 24:05
  beforehand. This idea that you for example,
• 24:08
  choose who your parents are, you choose the scenarios almost like
• 24:12
  you're sitting in agreeing like okay this is the game we're
• 24:15
  going to play. These are the parameters.
• 24:16
  This is what I'm going to go through and my challenges to
• 24:18
  learn this. Let's see if physical me can
• 24:23
  achieve that or I can achieve that and it's like it's a crazy
• 24:26
  concept to me and in a way it was kind of Of sick.
• 24:29
  Because one thing that has always worked me, is this idea
• 24:32
  that we're on this planet in the form that we are without you?
• 24:39
  No help and maybe maybe the challenge is some people will
• 24:42
  argue there is help. You know you can tip and tap
• 24:44
  into that and maybe they're right, you know I've heard an
• 24:47
  experienced things over the years.
• 24:49
  I couldn't explain with science or logical reasoning.
• 24:52
  And it does make me believe in something bigger than myself,
• 24:55
  but It does make you wonder with all the terrible things are
• 24:58
  going on constantly in the world and the things that happen every
• 25:01
  single day where is the sense of morality and that like when you
• 25:08
  when you kind of experience something horrid, an awful that
• 25:11
  changes you. One could argue.
• 25:14
  Oh these are tests these things to make you stronger but what
• 25:19
  about when people Take their own lives because of these things.
• 25:24
  What about scenarios like that the flip argument could be from
• 25:28
  certain people? Oh well, you know, they failed,
• 25:31
  they've you know, they've given up and it's like well this so
• 25:35
  much of life is trying to find a reason to keep going and
• 25:41
  sometimes it can be love that keeps you going, sometimes it
• 25:43
  can be a sense of responsibility.
• 25:45
  Sometimes it can be purpose when I started this show, it's just
• 25:50
  having fun. Now, I see sometimes the things
• 25:55
  that people say in response to the show, and I also look at my
• 25:59
  attitude towards it. And what I take from it and I'm
• 26:01
  like, this is something that's bigger than myself and that's
• 26:05
  why I like to keep doing this and keep going because it's
• 26:08
  bigger than myself. And I think that that really is
• 26:12
  the focus and the sense of something that we should be
• 26:16
  searching for in life, something bigger than ourselves building,
• 26:19
  things that are bigger than ourselves.
• 26:22
  And to tap into something that you said earlier about
• 26:24
  Consciousness and and everything, I remember one time
• 26:28
  I think it's my dad who introduced me to this idea.
• 26:30
  He said, we are collective Consciousness expressed in an
• 26:35
  individual individualized manner.
• 26:38
  This idea that we're all actually connected and the, you
• 26:43
  know, this experience we're having even though we are
• 26:46
  technically disconnected, we are always connected and he said
• 26:49
  something recently that really messed with my head.
• 26:51
  Ed. So expand on this idea?
• 26:54
  Last time I saw him, he said, Every time I see someone.
• 26:59
  No matter who it is, I remind myself that they are me.
• 27:03
  And I am them, and I was like, what do you mean?
• 27:06
  And he's like, what if I see someone that I hate?
• 27:09
  I remember that. This is part of me.
• 27:11
  This is in me and I was like, so you're saying, like, we're
• 27:15
  capable of anything and he's like, not quite.
• 27:16
  It's more to do with this idea that we are all interconnected,
• 27:20
  and I guess the lesson to be taken from that is don't judge
• 27:26
  try to help others as best you can.
• 27:29
  But also just to try to understand that like the most
• 27:34
  horrid awful things that are capable in, people are capable
• 27:37
  in any of us. And maybe it really does come
• 27:39
  down to our choices and our beliefs, in life, and what we
• 27:44
  choose to do in a given moment versus what we don't choose to
• 27:47
  do, sometimes in action, can Define you.
• 27:50
  Sometimes action defines you, it's but it's up to you.
• 27:54
  You have to choose and you know the funny thing as well is that
• 27:57
  like in those moments Ants. I had one of them recently our I
• 28:02
  had to stand up for someone in a situation where something bad
• 28:07
  was happening and it wasn't right.
• 28:09
  I felt my heart racing and my anxiety pushing and there was no
• 28:14
  voice in my head. There was nothing telling me
• 28:17
  anything. It was just the case of you're
• 28:19
  on your own kid. You have to decide And I think
• 28:23
  I'm not kidding anymore. I'm an adult.
• 28:25
  And I don't, man, and I forget this sometimes, but it's true.
• 28:31
  And I was like, you know, I had, I need to say something.
• 28:33
  I know I need to say something, I will say something, and then I
• 28:36
  did, and it felt good to say that afterwards.
• 28:39
  And I still think about that. And it made me re-evaluate
• 28:42
  myself as a person. I was like, I guess this is the
• 28:45
  type of person I am. Now, I stand up for things, I do
• 28:49
  this, I'm vocal about these things.
• 28:52
  Time in my life. When I didn't believe that I was
• 28:54
  this person, I guess my wider point with all of this is that
• 28:59
  you get to choose. You always get to choose
• 29:02
  throughout your life and Maybe that's the measure of a person
• 29:09
  at their end of their lives. I don't know.
• 29:12
  What do you make of that Josh? Well, your dad's a wise man, he
• 29:16
  is 100% correct in that. It's a beautiful thing he said
• 29:19
  to you. So the way I like to look at it
• 29:22
  is like when we start to establish ourselves as
• 29:27
  individuals and as a personality we're separating ourselves from
• 29:31
  like, the all from Consciousness, from what binds
• 29:35
  us and what creates It's our Unity, which is what your dad
• 29:38
  was talking about. How when you look at someone,
• 29:40
  you can sense that they are me. And I am them but we go into
• 29:44
  what ramdas called somebody training.
• 29:47
  You know, we're born, our parents, give us a name, they
• 29:50
  say this is you, and when you go outside, you look at a house, a
• 29:54
  squirrel, a tree, and you put names and you put descriptions
• 29:58
  of physical reality on to everything.
• 30:00
  And what you're doing is you're separating yourself from the
• 30:03
  University of the all so to speak.
• 30:06
  And what happens is it seems that we start to identify too
• 30:10
  much with our identity and with who, we think we are and we lose
• 30:15
  the sense of our University with one another.
• 30:19
  And I mean, this is, this is described in lots of different
• 30:23
  spiritual cultures and and especially when I look into
• 30:27
  Hinduism Buddhism, it's really, really prominent there where you
• 30:31
  can see that, you know, we all share this, this thing, this
• 30:37
  thing called Consciousness, and I was reading this book, almost
• 30:40
  done with it. It's called Man's Search for
• 30:43
  meaning by Viktor Frankl. Have you read this?
• 30:45
  No, I still try to get in to read, and do my In is either
• 30:50
  journals or very slowly getting into back into books.
• 30:53
  But so this book is amazing because Viktor Frankl was a
• 30:57
  psychoanalyst and a clinical psychologist and during World
• 31:01
  War Two, he was he was a prisoner of a concentration camp
• 31:06
  and the first half of the book describes, all of the struggles.
• 31:11
  All the suffering that he had to endure along with his comrades
• 31:14
  in these concentration camps because they were shipped off to
• 31:17
  a bunch of different ones. Were shipped off to certain
• 31:21
  camps that were essentially only used to gas people.
• 31:25
  So depending on like who you were your current physical
• 31:28
  condition. If you weren't able to work,
• 31:30
  they would gas you. They mean, it was just, it was
• 31:33
  incredible. What these people had to deal
• 31:35
  with, and the second half of the book is because he survived, and
• 31:41
  he was liberated after the war ended and he created this method
• 31:45
  of psychoanalysis that he calls logotherapy Which is essentially
• 31:53
  Man's Search for meaning, which is why the book is called that,
• 31:56
  it is a psycho analysis method that tackles psychological
• 32:01
  issues by establishing what it is.
• 32:04
  That makes a person continue on, what's your meaning, what's your
• 32:07
  purpose? And he describes the spiritual
• 32:13
  strength that it takes to maintain purpose and meaning
• 32:16
  through intense suffering. And what you can possibly
• 32:20
  imagine. And this works his way into what
• 32:23
  your father said, when he said that, you know, I am you you are
• 32:27
  me and you can see the Tendencies of even a Nazi prison
• 32:31
  guard, you know, they're following orders.
• 32:34
  They aren't necessarily evil people.
• 32:36
  They are a product of their experience, a product of their
• 32:39
  environment and a product of the orders in, which they're taking
• 32:42
  because I mean, I'm sure they're scared, you know, they're
• 32:45
  they're probably going to get reprimanded or killed if they
• 32:47
  don't follow their orders. And you can see that each
• 32:53
  person, you mean, we all have the tendency to have these types
• 32:59
  of little personality, traits, exploited.
• 33:02
  You know, there's there's a little bit of everybody in us
• 33:05
  and a little bit of and a little bit of us in everybody else.
• 33:08
  And I think it's really important to appreciate that
• 33:11
  incense, that because it allows you to live a life of
• 33:14
  compassion, understanding, and of non judgement of people who
• 33:18
  are doing things that you necessarily.
• 33:19
  Sara Lee, don't agree with because in a country like we
• 33:22
  live in. I mean, right now Mike the
• 33:25
  camera that I'm using is my cell phone and I use my phone all the
• 33:28
  time and there are very, very precious minerals that go into
• 33:33
  the batteries of these phones and the way that they get these
• 33:37
  minerals is basically slave labor in other countries where
• 33:41
  they're just, you know, they they have pickaxes and there's
• 33:44
  just people there's thousands of people in these quarries, just
• 33:47
  using pickaxes to To pick these these, these minerals out women
• 33:53
  children. And not to mention that when
• 33:56
  you're doing this you're in, you're ingesting and breathing,
• 33:59
  in all these fumes and people were getting cancer and birth
• 34:04
  mutations. So, you can look at you and I
• 34:07
  using microphones and using these batteries in our phones
• 34:10
  and our laptops as evil. It just depends on the
• 34:13
  perspective in which you look at it.
• 34:15
  I know what you mean. I know what you mean.
• 34:17
  I think the you always have to look at her purse and intention.
• 34:25
  I think these are really, really important things that we need to
• 34:27
  focus on when we look at arguments like that.
• 34:30
  Because, you know, I try to do my bit here and there, you know,
• 34:34
  like I try as much as I can to just buy from my vintage clothes
• 34:37
  stores reuse, you know, try not to buy anything that I know
• 34:40
  comes from like a bad Source. But sometimes your hand tied
• 34:44
  sometimes it's like you, like here in the UK, we're in a
• 34:46
  cost-of-living crisis right now. So I just buy cheap.
• 34:49
  I buy what I can and I try my best.
• 34:52
  I always try and pick the things that are fair.
• 34:54
  Trade the things that are, you know, I know come from a good
• 34:56
  source, but it's not always that possible, you know, I feel like
• 35:02
  it might be possible for us one day to get the type of, you
• 35:05
  know, equipment where we know it comes from a completely
• 35:08
  sustainable Source. But again, that requires money,
• 35:12
  we're not rich, you know, I mean, maybe one day we might be.
• 35:15
  But yeah, I think a lot of time in life, I guess what I'm trying
• 35:19
  to say is, you're limited by your choices.
• 35:21
  And when you look at the fact that you're limited by your
• 35:23
  choices, is this often frames? Your decision-making.
• 35:29
  And to what extent you can choose to be a good person
• 35:32
  versus choosing not to When I started here, in this idea that
• 35:37
  you can be a good person that does bad things, it blew my mind
• 35:40
  because it's like, it's true, you know, you see it so much in
• 35:43
  media. Like, I give you a really good
• 35:46
  example. I just finished watching a bit
• 35:48
  of The Walking Dead before we came on.
• 35:50
  I've just been re watching it and I was on the episode about
• 35:53
  Negan, where he explores his backstory spoilers for anyone
• 35:57
  who hasn't seen it by now. So don't come up me.
• 36:00
  Basically, Negan, as we know, is a villain character Actor.
• 36:06
  But this particular story towards the end of season. 10 is
• 36:09
  a Redemption Arc explores, why? He sort of ended up becoming the
• 36:14
  person that he did. And essentially it flipped a
• 36:17
  switch, he he was trying to keep his wife alive who had cancer
• 36:23
  and she got cancer before the end of the world which weirdly
• 36:29
  is fitting in this conversation. The end of the world then comes
• 36:34
  and then inevitably there's less access Yes, to the treatment
• 36:37
  stuff that she needs a cop. Remember exactly what it was,
• 36:39
  but some sort of IV bag, drip things that she needs for her
• 36:43
  treatments. So he has to go out and try and
• 36:47
  acquire these from people. And it's not immediately easy
• 36:51
  for him to do so. And there's a scene where he's
• 36:55
  got someone at gunpoint and you can tell In This Moment Negan is
• 37:00
  not a bad person in this moment. He's just desperately trying to
• 37:03
  get this stuff that will keep his wife.
• 37:05
  Live. He wants to take care of someone
• 37:07
  his actions. Okay, they're morally on just
• 37:11
  because he's threatening to kill someone else.
• 37:12
  But then they're weirdly also Justified because he's trying to
• 37:16
  save someone's life, someone he cares about someone.
• 37:18
  He loves his actions, come from a place of love, so it's a
• 37:22
  contradiction. It's, you know, I mean, it's too
• 37:28
  kind of forces going against each other and you can against
• 37:31
  like you said before, you can change the view of this.
• 37:35
  By looking at different act. Like perspectives, is he a good
• 37:39
  guy? Is he a bad guy?
• 37:41
  You know, I think one of the purposes of that episode by the
• 37:46
  time that his wife unfortunately passes away in he then goes back
• 37:49
  to take Vengeance on the people who delayed him thus causing her
• 37:55
  to then suffer and you know, eventually pass away.
• 37:59
  You could argue, he could have just Did the Jesus turn the
• 38:03
  other cheek? Let them go he chooses Vengeance
• 38:06
  and then he walks the path thereafter where he then becomes
• 38:11
  a bad man and in it fast forwards to the present day
• 38:16
  where he is now on a Redemption Arc.
• 38:18
  And he is trying to get people who he has wronged to a point
• 38:23
  that they could never forgive him necessarily they can maybe
• 38:27
  learn to live with him. But forgiving him is is
• 38:31
  something that many of them struggle with because he's
• 38:33
  taking people away, he's taking away their Loft, once he did
• 38:40
  this in a place of pain, he's flipped a switch, none of these
• 38:43
  people know, his backstory might they feel differently having
• 38:46
  known his backstory maybe but they also might be well, that's
• 38:50
  no justification and this therein lies the the problem of
• 38:54
  different people's perspectives, you see?
• 38:57
  Also sometimes see a media and films.
• 38:59
  TV, people forgive Even people for things awful crimes, they've
• 39:03
  done. I've seen it in real life.
• 39:06
  People forgiving people that have taken away their children,
• 39:10
  or people who have killed a loved one of theirs and they
• 39:14
  forgive the criminal. Why.
• 39:17
  Because Forgiveness is a powerful concept and often
• 39:24
  forgiveness. Grants you so much more gives
• 39:26
  you so much more power and a sense of freedom, because it's
• 39:33
  prior to forgiveness, you carry that around with you just as
• 39:37
  much as the person who lives with the guilt of having done
• 39:40
  what they did to you. You also live with the, the
• 39:45
  burden of hatred for that person.
• 39:48
  And this is why they talk about this idea of forgiveness and how
• 39:51
  powerful this concept can be. And again, it always comes down
• 39:55
  to Choice. It's not an easy thing.
• 39:56
  I'm me explaining it now. Makes it sound like, oh, well,
• 39:59
  you just forgive, and then you you gained something.
• 40:01
  But we've all been there, we know how difficult it is to
• 40:05
  forgive someone who was wronged us, when we think of what we
• 40:08
  lost, sometimes things that are lost and never replaceable.
• 40:15
  And that can be devastating for a person and it's that
• 40:18
  Devastation can then cause you to make decisions that you
• 40:24
  didn't think we're possible within you, you do things that
• 40:27
  you didn't think you were capable of doing.
• 40:30
  And I go back to what I said before about the limitation of
• 40:32
  choices, it's not just about your available choices.
• 40:36
  It's also about what you're going through in any given
• 40:38
  moment, expanding this little bit more.
• 40:41
  Like if you look at the concept of regret, Go back in the past
• 40:45
  and looking at your mistakes that you've made.
• 40:48
  You always have to remember the person that you were and not the
• 40:50
  person that you are. It's very easy to look back and
• 40:53
  go. Okay, well I would do this
• 40:55
  differently and are can't believe I did that wrong and
• 40:58
  people will judge. And this is what the problem
• 41:00
  with judgment. People will judge you for things
• 41:02
  you did years ago but they won't consider that.
• 41:04
  You're not the same person anymore.
• 41:06
  You were different, maybe you did those things because you
• 41:08
  were scared, maybe you did those things because you didn't have
• 41:11
  enough choices. You didn't have the Strength, to
• 41:15
  take the right choice, or maybe the right choice wasn't
• 41:17
  available to you. There's so much to unpack.
• 41:20
  What do you make of that Josh? Yeah, you're right.
• 41:22
  So so so much time pack and you know, it brings me back to my
• 41:27
  interpretation of Pascal and it's like if you're Negan if
• 41:30
  you're, you know, the person who's seeking revenge or if
• 41:33
  you're the person regretting, there's something that you're
• 41:37
  attaching yourself to and in Buddhism one of the main aspects
• 41:43
  of living a That aligns with the all, or The God, or whatever you
• 41:47
  want to call, it is recognizing your attachments and trying to
• 41:51
  shed yourself with them. And to me the things that keep
• 41:58
  us in this Duality, you know, the the Revenge, the regret, all
• 42:01
  those things, you can break them down too.
• 42:05
  The number one tool of everything is based in love.
• 42:08
  That's the all that's the university that binds everything
• 42:11
  together and anything that takes you out of love is like
• 42:17
  essentially your attachments. So if you look at say Revenge,
• 42:21
  there's something that you're attaching yourself to.
• 42:24
  That is basically allowing you to feel that Revenge.
• 42:31
  So, in negan's case, you know, he's attached to the idea of her
• 42:35
  over his wife. And if you can live your life in
• 42:39
  a more of like a past scallion way, where you are, Like living
• 42:45
  toward and acting on the aspects of God and spiritual belief.
• 42:51
  Then you can not necessarily like remove the attachments from
• 42:55
  your life. Because of course, we still have
• 42:57
  love for the people that are important to us.
• 42:59
  But you can at least look at the reaction to situations and
• 43:04
  realize and understand that, I am reacting to this in a way
• 43:09
  where it is. It's a sheer emotional response
• 43:12
  to Losing something, I'm attached to, and then you can
• 43:17
  sort of move forward in a more responsible and informed like
• 43:22
  more aware way. When?
• 43:27
  I appeared on your show I think maybe it was when you appeared
• 43:30
  on my show for the first time we spoke about and again make sure
• 43:34
  you go check it out. I can't remember which episode
• 43:36
  it is but you'll find it in the archives and make sure you go
• 43:38
  check out Ashish so pursuit of infinity, we explored What it
• 43:45
  was like for you when you took certain drugs and you had this
• 43:49
  kind of disconnecting disconnection for things and how
• 43:54
  you had to kind of like find yourself again.
• 43:57
  And I want to kind of speak to that a little bit here.
• 43:59
  This idea of attachment and what you felt and how because you are
• 44:05
  still operating as Josh. But you now have this kind of
• 44:09
  belief and understanding of things that goes above Who and
• 44:15
  what you are but you're still operating in this sphere and I
• 44:18
  like to think of it. I think I might have said this
• 44:20
  to you, as well at the time is that we have like to sort of
• 44:23
  lives we have the life that's bigger than us in real life.
• 44:27
  And then we have this life of this person, this thing that
• 44:32
  we've created, you know, like Christian Josh, these things are
• 44:35
  not really real. They are real because we make
• 44:37
  them and me and you are both sitting here right now but the
• 44:40
  same time All of this is fiction.
• 44:44
  None of it really means anything.
• 44:47
  The only thing that really means anything is this conversation?
• 44:49
  We're having because we're exploring our existence and what
• 44:54
  it means to be alive and we're trying to like tackle that but
• 44:57
  everything else is, you know, whatever having a job, having
• 45:02
  money. Yeah.
• 45:03
  It's not, it's just things that we've had created to kind of
• 45:07
  live in this thing that we call civilization and we have all
• 45:10
  these attachments. And I think attack being
• 45:13
  attached to Something Like Love is at least something that it's
• 45:16
  a feeling it's within us. It's around us, it's everywhere,
• 45:19
  you can't escape. And it's maybe that's a positive
• 45:21
  attachment to have versus having an attachment to something like
• 45:24
  money is maybe an unhealthy one but talk to us about attachment
• 45:29
  from that perspective. So the way I look at it is all
• 45:35
  attachment, everything that we do and everything that we are is
• 45:39
  a manifestation of love the difference between Love and what
• 45:43
  I'm talking about as like God or something is there's love and
• 45:48
  there's unconditional. Love unconditional.
• 45:51
  Love is the thing that I think unifies all and unifies everyone
• 45:56
  and you can look at like even romantic love is is conditional.
• 46:01
  Most things that we Define as love in our external reality.
• 46:05
  They are conditional and what taking psychedelics has taught
• 46:09
  me. Is it?
• 46:12
  It helped me to feel and to merge with what unconditional
• 46:16
  love is. And it made me realize that, you
• 46:20
  know, my higher self with the capital S is unconditional.
• 46:25
  Love it just exists within this ocean of unconditional love and
• 46:29
  what my Consciousness is right. Now, while I'm here and alive,
• 46:32
  it's a little drop of water and going back to what happens after
• 46:37
  death. It's like when we die that
• 46:40
  little drop of water, that's our consciousness. is poured back
• 46:42
  into the ocean and then we become one with all of
• 46:45
  unconditional love and with all of Consciousness and in terms of
• 46:50
  like the attachments in my life psychedelics helped me to
• 46:56
  realize that like I was saying earlier if we are identifying
• 47:00
  with our separateness and we're identifying with this, somebody
• 47:04
  training that we got when we were a kid, all the way up until
• 47:08
  now, you know, we're identifying with our attachments and we're
• 47:11
  identifying with our Optional responses to our environment,
• 47:13
  but when you do a psychedelic ruin, or when you have a
• 47:17
  spiritual experience, where you're merging with this
• 47:20
  unconditional love, it's like nothing else in the universe and
• 47:24
  you realize that we all are from the same place we all come from
• 47:30
  this thing and I can identify in everyone and in myself and it
• 47:35
  helps to re contextualize what I feel is important.
• 47:38
  It recontextualizes my reactions to As to my attachments.
• 47:44
  Again, not that my attachments are gone.
• 47:46
  But it it's it serves a purpose to eliminate or to have an
• 47:53
  experience where your attachments are sort of
• 47:55
  eliminated because then you can come back to this reality and
• 47:59
  your little autopilot mode of living, with more context for
• 48:04
  how to react to situations that make you uncomfortable, or that
• 48:08
  remove some of your attachments. Let's explore this.
• 48:12
  A little bit from the perspective of ghosts and
• 48:15
  spirits and that kind of Realm. So you talk about these ideas of
• 48:19
  attachment and returning without fruit being free of attachment.
• 48:24
  What do you make of ghosts and spirits?
• 48:26
  Do you think that is maybe trapped energy that has
• 48:31
  attachments things in the earth world?
• 48:35
  That, you know, I may be unfinished business maybe or
• 48:38
  maybe a better question, would be, what are your kind of
• 48:41
  Thoughts on the idea of ghosts in the power and normal in the
• 48:44
  context of what we're talking about.
• 48:47
  It's a good question. I've never actually had a
• 48:50
  paranormal experience or any sort of like Little Ghost
• 48:53
  experience. So it's hard for me to lay
• 48:57
  judgment on whether or not people who have those
• 48:59
  experiences are like legitimised in them.
• 49:03
  But the way I like to look at it and this is something that I've
• 49:05
  also learned from certain psychedelics mushrooms and DMT
• 49:09
  is that I feel like all of these, these Dimensions, these
• 49:13
  Realms of reality. It feels like they all exist
• 49:18
  simultaneously outside of time right in front of us at all
• 49:23
  times and you just apply the requisite stimuli and the veil
• 49:30
  is lifted. And then the information that's
• 49:33
  all around us. We can absorb again and we can
• 49:35
  sort of experience it for what it is because our brains Aldous
• 49:41
  Huxley referred to them as a like reducing valves.
• 49:45
  So if if you look at the brain as a reducing valve, you can
• 49:50
  kind of see that what it's doing is, it's filtering out
• 49:53
  information. It's filtering out parts of
• 49:55
  reality and if you take say DMT or mushrooms, the the
• 50:02
  connections in your brain, that were not connecting with one
• 50:06
  another and not communicating with each other.
• 50:08
  Now, have the ability to communicate with one another
• 50:11
  because the veil has been lifted the the wall in between them has
• 50:15
  Dissolved. So it allows you to see what is
• 50:19
  real. What is more real than what?
• 50:20
  We consider reality in our everyday waking consciousness?
• 50:24
  So that's kind of where I, I look at the Paranormal and all
• 50:28
  that stuff. I feel that it just it exists,
• 50:31
  in in reality, just like you and I are here now, you know,
• 50:36
  there's probably infinite spirits that are just like
• 50:38
  hanging out right next to us, but we can't see them because we
• 50:41
  don't have like the correct brain.
• 50:45
  Chemistry or the correct like, reducing valve to, to see them.
• 50:51
  It's like, if you, if you watched like a 1990s, like, say
• 50:55
  cheers, me and my fiance I've been watching tears when I was a
• 50:59
  kid. I used to watch, cheers on a
• 51:01
  little tube TV on Nick at Nite. And now we have this massive HD
• 51:07
  television and we're streaming it through a streaming service
• 51:10
  that has digitized the show and made it look like it's a show
• 51:14
  from When t22 so it's like it depends on the tools at which
• 51:21
  you're using to view what you're looking at to see a clearer
• 51:25
  picture of what's actually there.
• 51:28
  That's a brilliant way of putting, actually, I've heard
• 51:31
  about this idea that, you know, maybe get ghosts in the para
• 51:34
  mortal Paradigm, wasn't so much like even spirits.
• 51:38
  But more just kind of existing in a different dimension,
• 51:41
  completely different to, what we are, which also kind of implies
• 51:44
  the idea that You don't almost died or the spirit doesn't die.
• 51:49
  It just transfers to something else and which is kind of a
• 51:53
  fascinating concept to think of ours.
• 51:54
  No, you just die and then but that you don't die, you know,
• 51:57
  your body dies but you continue on and speaking of continuing
• 52:03
  on, I wanted to kind of explore the idea of purgatory with you
• 52:09
  for a little bit. We'll get to heaven and hell and
• 52:11
  all that in a bit. But I just wanted to kind of
• 52:13
  explore this and also Throw some questions you always so.
• 52:19
  Two different things. One question, I want you to
• 52:24
  consider? Are we all dead?
• 52:28
  Is this Purgatory to sit with that question?
• 52:31
  For a minute while I outline something else and then we'll
• 52:35
  return to. Okay, so just sit with that.
• 52:38
  There's a movie that I saw earlier last year called Jacob's
• 52:41
  Ladder. Now, are you familiar with that
• 52:44
  movie? I'm not.
• 52:46
  Okay. The movie basically is about a
• 52:49
  guy who I think he was in, like the Vietnam War or something
• 52:52
  like that and it tells the story of basically how he is.
• 52:58
  In purgatory, but he doesn't know, he's in purgatory, he's
• 53:00
  seeing things. And in his everyday life, he
• 53:04
  kind of puts it down to having like PTSD and this idea that you
• 53:08
  know, these people have been experimented upon and you know
• 53:12
  actually there their real-life soldiers that and I think I
• 53:16
  think this is rooted in reality as well.
• 53:18
  I think there might be there were there will actually were
• 53:20
  some experiments done on people soldiers in Vietnam or one of
• 53:24
  those Wars and it did give PTSD. So it's a legitimate thing, but
• 53:30
  in this particular story, and I'm going to ruin the ending for
• 53:34
  you. We find out that our protagonist
• 53:37
  basically is experiencing something akin to a Life review,
• 53:43
  but this is an extension like his life in purgatory feels
• 53:47
  real. So in his mind, he's returned
• 53:49
  from the war and he lives a very basic kind of life.
• 53:53
  And he has, you know, a girlfriend or whatever, he's
• 53:56
  estranged from his son, who'd passed.
• 53:58
  Away, and his ex-wife, and all these different things.
• 54:01
  And it's not a great life and it's quite a sorrowful life, but
• 54:05
  there is happiness in it, but it's kind of all over the place
• 54:09
  and it's like jumbled up and occasionally.
• 54:12
  He sees, which now in context would kind of explain a lot.
• 54:16
  He sees like like Monsters almost and in the movie you kind
• 54:22
  of led to think all this is just a product of the PTSD.
• 54:24
  He's just freaking out. Maybe it's drugs.
• 54:27
  Actually, Some people argue, maybe it's like Angels or demons
• 54:30
  trying to kind of shake him into reality.
• 54:33
  Make him realize that, hey, you know, you're in purgatory, you
• 54:35
  need to get out of this. You need to wake up, you need to
• 54:38
  consider that, you know, you need to move on in the end.
• 54:43
  I'll character does realize and he does move on, and he moves on
• 54:46
  with his his son who's passed away.
• 54:50
  But the whole thing kind of left me just sitting there thinking
• 54:53
  like wow, like okay maybe this is an area that we can go to
• 54:57
  after we die maybe that's what's waiting for us.
• 54:59
  Is this kind of Realm and like a lot of it comes down to whether
• 55:04
  we accept it or we deny it. But you often when you hear
• 55:07
  about purgatory, you hear about this idea that people get stuck
• 55:11
  in purgatory sometimes forever. And I wonder if that's to do
• 55:16
  with maybe the attachments issue that we spoke about earlier.
• 55:20
  Iran inability to disassociates, oneself from Earthly things that
• 55:26
  maybe don't bear any relevance after you pass away, or maybe it
• 55:30
  can be anger towards things. The idea of a trap Soul comes up
• 55:35
  quite quite a lot, particularly in instances, where maybe
• 55:40
  someone has died suddenly, maybe in a car crash, or before their
• 55:45
  time, in some shape, or form or in, you know, a means that
• 55:49
  wasn't quite A fair in some shape or form.
• 55:52
  And, you know, I've heard people in Europe talk about this.
• 55:56
  This idea that, you know, mediums who will talk about
• 56:00
  spirits coming to them? Who would always, like, harass
• 56:05
  them explaining like, where am I?
• 56:08
  What's going on? Like, how do I get out of this?
• 56:10
  Because they just wouldn't know what's going on.
• 56:11
  They didn't even know that they were dead and that's a
• 56:15
  fascinating concept as well. So, Where do you kind of sit on
• 56:21
  this? I know I've just kind of thrown
• 56:23
  a lot into your memory information your way.
• 56:25
  But where do you sit on the concept of purgatory?
• 56:29
  Purgatory is such an interesting concept, so it brings me sort of
• 56:32
  back to the psychedelics again, you know.
• 56:34
  And when I talk about them as being more real than this
• 56:37
  reality here, where I could see, somebody could interpret
• 56:41
  something like that as us being in purgatory.
• 56:43
  It's like we're, we're in class, you know.
• 56:46
  So, we've got to take the curriculum and it sucks to be in
• 56:48
  school and when you Realize that there's something that exists
• 56:52
  outside of us, that is larger than I could definitely see it
• 56:56
  being interpreted as Purgatory. But again, when you think about
• 57:00
  purgatory what's making you say Purgatory as opposed to a
• 57:06
  beautiful learning experience, it's most likely your
• 57:09
  attachments. Again, we always go back to the
• 57:11
  attachments. If I'm attached to this - notion
• 57:16
  about what the world is in about what reality is here, then I
• 57:19
  could easily. We interpret it as as Purgatory,
• 57:22
  but I tend to think of it as like, the best college course
• 57:28
  that I could have ever enrolled in you.
• 57:30
  No good. And what I'm doing here is, I'm
• 57:33
  trying to learn and I'm trying to move the world toward a
• 57:36
  greater state of love in order to graduate and to graduate with
• 57:41
  honors, you know what I mean? No, I gotta get what you mean.
• 57:46
  I think that goes back to what we were talking about before
• 57:47
  with this idea of every existence that you have is
• 57:52
  about, maybe trying to reach a higher plane of existence, the
• 57:55
  higher spiritual level, one thing I've been embracing more
• 58:00
  and more. Is this concept that I am?
• 58:01
  I have some psychic abilities, I don't know.
• 58:07
  I'm still a bit like mmm on that whole thing because I'm like,
• 58:10
  yeah but science man, science unit of it.
• 58:13
  Mmm, and I go back and forth on it.
• 58:16
  So I just try and keep my mind open and just what happens
• 58:19
  happens. And I'll just, like I said at
• 58:22
  the beginning, I just try and form my belief systems on that,
• 58:26
  but every once in a while, like I said before something happens,
• 58:29
  that kind of froze, everything that you knew like, I've had
• 58:33
  this time and time again, like people scientists who
• 58:36
  rationalize everything in what you can experiment with, what
• 58:40
  you can form, a hypothesis on and come to a conclusion.
• 58:43
  Illusion on sometimes. There are things that you just
• 58:46
  can't explain with rationale or logic or science and then I
• 58:52
  suppose then it's it comes down to more theological explanations
• 58:56
  of things and It's just a whole other can of worms right there,
• 59:02
  but I wanted to kind of just one last thing on this Purgatory
• 59:05
  thing. Like That question I asked you
• 59:08
  in the beginning, are we all dead?
• 59:10
  What do you make of that? This idea that maybe this is
• 59:13
  Purgatory. It's possible, it definitely is
• 59:16
  possible. If you consider what happens
• 59:20
  after death to be truly living and to be the true determining
• 59:24
  factor of what it is to be life and to be conscious then I could
• 59:31
  consider that, you know, you could say oh we're all dead here
• 59:35
  and there's like there's a bunch of things.
• 59:37
  Is that where they called this like a prison planet.
• 59:39
  We're like our Consciousness and our soul is like whatever group
• 59:44
  of like whatever. Our soul group was is like being
• 59:48
  punished and being put here in a biological form to experience
• 59:53
  suffering into experience like the tests of life in order to
• 59:59
  like do our time essentially which I think is an interesting
• 1:00:02
  concept. I don't really subscribe to it
• 1:00:04
  much but I think is interesting and it sort of goes along the
• 1:00:06
  lines of Like purgatory. And like, are we already dead
• 1:00:09
  here? Okay.
• 1:00:10
  I want to expose something that you just said that like this.
• 1:00:12
  I did, like, maybe we're on a prison planet because I almost
• 1:00:17
  to me implies the idea of hmm. Well, maybe there's
• 1:00:20
  Consciousness in other forms of existence, you know,
• 1:00:24
  extraterrestrials who that's been in the news lately.
• 1:00:27
  This idea of aliens and do you remember a conversation with my
• 1:00:32
  Dad recently where he was just like And I'm paraphrasing.
• 1:00:37
  He didn't put it this way. But he sort of said, like, I
• 1:00:38
  think it's foolish to believe that we are completely alone in
• 1:00:43
  this in this existence. Like, it's foolish to believe
• 1:00:46
  that and I tend to believe him too, I don't know where I sit on
• 1:00:50
  the whole alien sting, but I think there must be life besides
• 1:00:52
  us. It's impossible.
• 1:00:52
  That were the only life that's just how that would be so
• 1:00:55
  depressing to deliver him. But speaking to that, that the
• 1:01:00
  overall point I wanted to make is let's go with this idea that
• 1:01:04
  this is the worst form of existence.
• 1:01:06
  Being Human. Right?
• 1:01:08
  Is, is that it, do you think maybe that's the issue?
• 1:01:12
  Then maybe we're being punished. And actually there is greater
• 1:01:15
  forms of life for our souls to experience other than being
• 1:01:21
  human. I do think that there are higher
• 1:01:24
  Realms of existence for our Consciousness to inhabit, but I
• 1:01:28
  think that, that the human existence is one of the top
• 1:01:32
  levels. I think it's one of the highest
• 1:01:33
  levels, if you look into the rebirth, Birth and reincarnation
• 1:01:37
  theories of like Buddhism. For example, there are a lot of
• 1:01:40
  lower Realms. There are hell rounds where it's
• 1:01:42
  just like suffering, there are hungry, ghosts Realms animal
• 1:01:47
  realm, and the human realm is a beautiful realm because even
• 1:01:51
  above the god Realms in some certain certain circumstances,
• 1:01:54
  because we're were gifted with the ability to experience
• 1:02:00
  suffering, but also experience Transcendence.
• 1:02:03
  And to learn lessons that you can't, Learn as like a quote
• 1:02:07
  unquote. God, if you're in a God, Realm
• 1:02:09
  your existing within this Paradigm where there's no
• 1:02:12
  suffering, Everything Is Beautiful, you're just existing
• 1:02:16
  and unconditional love. And you'd have to imagine that
• 1:02:19
  you'd get kind of bored up there, hanging out for all
• 1:02:21
  eternity. So it might be a gift to be sent
• 1:02:24
  down to this existence here to be able to experience all of the
• 1:02:28
  things that we experience here. The entire breadth of it,
• 1:02:32
  whether it be good, bad, beautiful, ugly.
• 1:02:34
  All of it. This is what kind of touching on
• 1:02:37
  reincarnation right now. What do you make of?
• 1:02:40
  Becoming an animal. Do you think that that is a
• 1:02:44
  higher form of Consciousness and lower form?
• 1:02:47
  Do you think they have it easier?
• 1:02:48
  Like? I mean, there's so many
• 1:02:49
  questions I can ask you, for example, connected to that, you
• 1:02:52
  think dogs and cats and lions and elephants.
• 1:02:56
  Think the same way we do or are they on a lower level?
• 1:02:59
  What do you make of all of that? I think it's a little bit of
• 1:03:02
  both. I do think they're on a lower
• 1:03:04
  level because ultimately, like our ceiling of Consciousness in
• 1:03:07
  our ceiling of potential, seems to be way higher.
• 1:03:11
  But that being said, I think there's a certain wisdom that
• 1:03:16
  being as conscious as we are, we lose track of and I think that
• 1:03:21
  is a it's like, unconditional love, you can see it and say a
• 1:03:25
  dog, you can see it in all animals.
• 1:03:27
  They have this, like, oblivious unconditional wise form of love,
• 1:03:35
  and it's so funny, like I'm going to bring up.
• 1:03:37
  So, I took mushrooms. The friend of mine and he has
• 1:03:43
  one of the most amazing and intelligent dogs that I've ever
• 1:03:47
  seen in met. And when we have this experience
• 1:03:52
  with his dog with us, it's like I felt the level of love and
• 1:03:58
  wisdom that this dog had that was very different from mine.
• 1:04:02
  It was on a very different frequency, but it was something
• 1:04:04
  that felt Like it was on a higher level than what I'm able
• 1:04:10
  to experience because I'm I'm identifying with my myself and
• 1:04:15
  my preference isn't who I think I am as a human and this dog
• 1:04:18
  just exemplified unconditional love and wisdom.
• 1:04:22
  And it almost felt like I was saying like hey you like you've
• 1:04:26
  made it like welcome. I've been here all along, you
• 1:04:28
  know and it's like I connected with this dog in a way that I
• 1:04:33
  never thought possible and you know also like with my cat and
• 1:04:37
  my dog as well. When under the influence of
• 1:04:39
  psychedelics, you just you you get this different
• 1:04:44
  interpretation of what is possible in all forms of life.
• 1:04:49
  And, you know, you talk about science and how, you know, you
• 1:04:53
  look at certain things and you're like, oh, well science
• 1:04:55
  can't explain this like, so, how can it be real?
• 1:04:57
  But science is only A set of rules and a set of observations
• 1:05:05
  that have been peer-reviewed that are based in measurable,
• 1:05:10
  stimuli that exists within our frame of reference or what we
• 1:05:15
  can interpret with our senses. So if you look at like, say a
• 1:05:18
  bat for instance, their their idea of life and their senses
• 1:05:22
  and how they experience the world is so much different.
• 1:05:25
  So if a bat could, you know, participate in science.
• 1:05:29
  It's version of It would be way way different than what we
• 1:05:33
  consider our version of science. So I do believe that like
• 1:05:36
  mathematics and science are like the language of the universe.
• 1:05:39
  Like they're like the language of our physical reality and of
• 1:05:42
  nature but they don't cover the Transcendent.
• 1:05:45
  And there are things that exist in this reality that science
• 1:05:48
  just can't really touch just because of the limitations that
• 1:05:52
  have puts on itself of observation of peer review,
• 1:05:55
  because there is a value in anecdotal evidence for things
• 1:05:58
  and experience because all All of life is a matter of
• 1:06:03
  experience. You know, if you look at time
• 1:06:05
  too I'm sure you've had experiences where You know, time
• 1:06:10
  has gone by so quick, we're doing a podcast and it's been an
• 1:06:13
  hour and it feels like it's 15 minutes, you know, and you know,
• 1:06:16
  try putting your hand on a stove.
• 1:06:19
  Five minutes that's kind of big longest five minutes of your
• 1:06:22
  life. So if you look at objective
• 1:06:26
  experience, time is not this linear thing that can be
• 1:06:30
  measured. I think it's more important or
• 1:06:33
  it's just as important to look at time as an experience and
• 1:06:37
  what it feels like to have time go by Okay, I'm going to mess
• 1:06:42
  with your head. Now, speaking to that idea that
• 1:06:45
  time is not linear and I tend to believe in this idea that time,
• 1:06:51
  Okay, here's an idea. Imagine the past the present and
• 1:06:56
  the future are all happening simultaneously, okay.
• 1:07:01
  Or rather a better way of putting it is they all exist in
• 1:07:04
  the same realm. So instead of happening, they
• 1:07:08
  just all exist. That also froze.
• 1:07:11
  The idea that you could be both alive and dead simultaneously.
• 1:07:17
  Which then begs the question if that's true.
• 1:07:21
  That would then mean that you were able to tap into far, more
• 1:07:25
  than you can possibly conceive and be able to almost like plot
• 1:07:29
  your destiny because you know, what's to come because you
• 1:07:32
  already are dead. But alive simultaneously.
• 1:07:36
  I always like, don't understand what I understand, but I
• 1:07:38
  understand what I understand, but trying to explain it, but
• 1:07:41
  there aren't any words, but I think Josh gets what I'm trying
• 1:07:43
  to say. I do, is it?
• 1:07:46
  It looks like most Things, you know, and I completely agree
• 1:07:49
  with you. It's like time is not
• 1:07:52
  chronologically unfolding. It's all happening at once and I
• 1:07:57
  think the more that biological beings evolved, it seems that
• 1:08:01
  like we're able to Traverse an Explorer dimensions on a higher
• 1:08:06
  level and in some of the, like the Psychedelic experiences and
• 1:08:10
  spiritual experiences that I've had you experienced time as a
• 1:08:13
  dimension, and you can transcend time.
• 1:08:16
  And even if you look Quantum mechanics and look at some of
• 1:08:19
  the really deep scientific aspects of physics.
• 1:08:22
  You'll see that they will experience time to and they will
• 1:08:25
  describe physicists will describe time as something
• 1:08:28
  that's nonlinear. If you look into the work of
• 1:08:31
  Donald's Hoffman, he's been expelling this this cool quote
• 1:08:36
  and he's saying that space-time is dead as a paradigm,
• 1:08:39
  space-time is dead because if you go to the highest degree of
• 1:08:42
  size, whether it be high or low, there's a certain aspect to
• 1:08:46
  which SpaceTime. No longer becomes a factor and
• 1:08:51
  that's like the quantum Realms. And to me, quantum theory, sort
• 1:08:56
  of deals with Consciousness because it deals with the
• 1:08:58
  Observer. So what is the Observer?
• 1:09:00
  And how far can you extrapolate those ideas?
• 1:09:04
  Like are their Dimensions outside of what we believe is
• 1:09:08
  even real. And are these Dimensions
• 1:09:10
  traversable is time travel real. And the way I like to think
• 1:09:14
  about time travel, not to get to off topic but Like time travel
• 1:09:18
  was like in our minds and it's possible that memory is like the
• 1:09:22
  first like evolutionary aspect of time travel and if you
• 1:09:27
  because if you're going to time-travel, you're probably not
• 1:09:29
  going to do it in the physical reality.
• 1:09:30
  You're going to do it in like a Transcendent sort of
• 1:09:34
  Consciousness type of reality where you're experiencing it and
• 1:09:37
  not like traveling through time because if you like if we travel
• 1:09:41
  through physical time you have to think that there would be
• 1:09:43
  just time machines popping up all over the place at all times.
• 1:09:46
  You know what I mean? Because people would have been
• 1:09:48
  traveling through time already. Okay.
• 1:09:52
  But in many movies and TV shows, I mean, that's not anything we
• 1:09:55
  could base this shot on, but T TV media, whatever.
• 1:09:59
  There's different versions of time travel.
• 1:10:02
  And as you say, this idea of transcendence, well, maybe
• 1:10:05
  people are constantly visiting us, but the rules are that you
• 1:10:09
  can't physically mix with it. Because it's somehow There are
• 1:10:13
  rules, but then, I don't know. I like to gonna go with the
• 1:10:16
  school of thought of like, if the mind can conceive it, maybe
• 1:10:18
  it's possible. I don't know.
• 1:10:21
  But maybe yeah and I mean you know not to touch too much on it
• 1:10:25
  but on near-death experiences people say that they often can
• 1:10:28
  meet and Converse with like dead family members and stuff like
• 1:10:32
  that. So it kind of makes you believe
• 1:10:34
  that there's a possibility that all of this stuff is just
• 1:10:38
  existing within one happening. And again, time doesn't have to
• 1:10:42
  be necessarily linear in the way that we measure it.
• 1:10:46
  Absolutely. He spoke about Quantum Theory.
• 1:10:50
  Are you familiar with Um, immortality Theory, I don't
• 1:10:53
  think I am. Right?
• 1:10:55
  I discovered this a few years back.
• 1:10:57
  Basically, Quantum, him immortality theory is like this
• 1:11:01
  idea that we are constantly. Experiencing the apocalypse.
• 1:11:07
  Like, we're constantly dying but instead of us being aware of it,
• 1:11:11
  we just shift between realities universes, which also kind of
• 1:11:16
  lend some credibility to the Mandela effect by extension,
• 1:11:19
  because it kind of suggests. Well, the reason there's these
• 1:11:21
  tiny little shifts and changes that are barely perceptible is
• 1:11:25
  because we've shifted into a new reality, a new universe.
• 1:11:28
  And maybe also, then why I loved ones are acting.
• 1:11:31
  Slightly differently could also explain that too.
• 1:11:33
  I don't know. It could be horseshit.
• 1:11:36
  It's just what do you think of it?
• 1:11:38
  It reminds me of, do you remember?
• 1:11:42
  I forget I was like maybe 2011 or something like that.
• 1:11:45
  When we activated the Large Hadron Collider.
• 1:11:50
  Mmm. This particle accelerator That
• 1:11:53
  was supposed to be like the most powerful physical entity in the
• 1:11:57
  universe, or that we could ever conceive of as humans when we
• 1:12:00
  activated this thing. Nothing happened.
• 1:12:03
  So some theories say that what actually happened is it
• 1:12:07
  destroyed the entire universe and we just instantly shifted to
• 1:12:12
  another Universe similar to what you're saying.
• 1:12:15
  It's like this Multiverse Theory where there's like an infinite
• 1:12:18
  amount of universes where an infinite amount of possibilities
• 1:12:21
  are happening at the same time and you can just sort of like
• 1:12:25
  shift between each Universe depending on the rear
• 1:12:28
  Consciousness lies. So that reminded me of that very
• 1:12:31
  interesting. I don't suppose you've heard any
• 1:12:34
  thing about that since then because I've heard like
• 1:12:38
  basically nothing about the Large Hadron Collider as I
• 1:12:40
  understand. It still is still there.
• 1:12:41
  They're still doing things with it but you just never hear about
• 1:12:44
  in the news anymore. I think they created another
• 1:12:46
  one, a more powerful one. What they tried to turn on and
• 1:12:49
  like the same kind of thing happened, not 100% familiar with
• 1:12:52
  it, but I think there, there was another one, a bigger one that
• 1:12:54
  was created. Like em.
• 1:12:57
  We fucked up, let's fuck up even bigger, it's what we do.
• 1:13:00
  It's all we do heaven and hell. What do you think Heaven and
• 1:13:06
  Hell interesting? I The way that they represented
• 1:13:11
  and say Christianity as like a place you go.
• 1:13:16
  I don't subscribe to that what I like to think of Heaven and Hell
• 1:13:22
  is their existent within the same, like Transcendent realm.
• 1:13:29
  There was a passage in the Bible that he got essentially says,
• 1:13:34
  you know, I am creator of all both heaven and hell and I just
• 1:13:39
  I believe that they're one in the same not necessarily like if
• 1:13:43
  I do something good I'm going to go to the good place if I do
• 1:13:45
  something bad. I'm going to go down to the bad
• 1:13:47
  place and I'm going to burn and, you know, suffer for all
• 1:13:50
  eternity. I feel that we all go to the
• 1:13:53
  same place when we die, and it's more akin to the description of
• 1:13:58
  Heaven than it is to the description of hell.
• 1:14:01
  That's not to say that there are no like hell Realms.
• 1:14:04
  And there's no place that you can go to that sort of
• 1:14:07
  symbolizes hell, but it just feels to me like, we're all
• 1:14:11
  going to the same place and it is more akin to the description
• 1:14:13
  of Heaven. Okay, let's explore that a
• 1:14:17
  little bit so let's suppose you're right and it will go to
• 1:14:19
  the same realm that almost kind of implies that there is no
• 1:14:22
  punishment then for being sinful in this existence being, you
• 1:14:27
  know, doing wrong against others.
• 1:14:29
  You know, home people like there's just no punishment so it
• 1:14:31
  doesn't matter. I wouldn't say that there is
• 1:14:34
  punishment. I think it's all a process of
• 1:14:36
  learning just and you know, it's like this similar thing with a
• 1:14:41
  Life review, you know, when you have your life review, it's not
• 1:14:44
  as if you're being your fingers being pointed at you and you're
• 1:14:48
  saying like you fucked up here and like this is where I mean
• 1:14:51
  you may have an aspect of that experience where you you realize
• 1:14:56
  what you've been doing is wrong and what you've done is wrong,
• 1:14:58
  but again, that's a learning experience.
• 1:14:59
  And I don't think it's looked at as if you This bad thing and now
• 1:15:05
  you're going to be punished. And the reason I say that is
• 1:15:07
  because depending on what belief system, what perspective you're
• 1:15:10
  looking at it in and, you know, kind of like what we said before
• 1:15:12
  you and I could be considered evil, because of the, the fact
• 1:15:16
  that like we're participating in the supply chain.
• 1:15:19
  That provides us with these phones and the batteries, and
• 1:15:21
  the minerals that are inside them.
• 1:15:22
  So I think it really depends on what perspective you're looking
• 1:15:25
  at. And if you're judging Things
• 1:15:27
  based in like an attachment to good or what you consider a
• 1:15:31
  good, then you're looking at other Was bad and they're the
• 1:15:34
  ones who are going to go to hell.
• 1:15:36
  But again it just depends on your on your perspective.
• 1:15:39
  So that's why I sort of believe that everybody goes to the same
• 1:15:42
  place and maybe depending on what we do in this life, whether
• 1:15:46
  it be good or bad determines what our next rebirth or what,
• 1:15:51
  our next reincarnation is and maybe that is dependent upon
• 1:15:56
  what we have to yet, learn in order to change it to transcend
• 1:16:00
  to a higher realm of being after, you know, We escaped the
• 1:16:04
  what they call some, sorry and Buddhism, which is this endless
• 1:16:07
  circle of life and death and rebirth.
• 1:16:11
  Yeah, I wonder about that this idea that you could be sort of
• 1:16:14
  like trapped in a never-ending cycle that just never ends and
• 1:16:18
  it's just that that would be worse.
• 1:16:20
  I feel like yeah sometimes when you hear about people talk about
• 1:16:23
  or wouldn't it be great if life would extend and we'd live
• 1:16:26
  longer and I can see maybe some of the benefits, but I also
• 1:16:29
  quite like the idea that when it ends it ends and do know me.
• 1:16:33
  And like I obviously everyone wants to live a sort of longest
• 1:16:36
  life and get the most out of it, but it's like if you would then
• 1:16:40
  extend it. Only maybe even get to a point
• 1:16:42
  where life is just you never die.
• 1:16:45
  I mean would you really want? That isn't death kind of a
• 1:16:51
  necessary part of life about exit existing.
• 1:16:56
  She shouldn't be something. We're all afford it.
• 1:17:01
  Maybe, maybe if we lived forever, we kept in that cycle
• 1:17:04
  of constantly switching between lives.
• 1:17:07
  If we would kind of just lost souls, would go crazy if that's
• 1:17:11
  possible maybe our souls could somehow lose their minds.
• 1:17:15
  If that's even a thing, I don't know, I just want to touch on on
• 1:17:20
  punishment again for a second, but from a different angle.
• 1:17:24
  Karma. Do you think Karma happens in
• 1:17:30
  this life or the next one? Well, depends on what you mean
• 1:17:36
  by Karma. There are a few different
• 1:17:38
  interpretations of what Karma means.
• 1:17:40
  And the way I like to look at karma is from, like a Buddhist
• 1:17:43
  framework, where it's not necessarily like I do something
• 1:17:47
  bad and then I suffer the consequences of, you know, like
• 1:17:51
  some sort of like astral Judgment of that thing to me.
• 1:17:55
  Karma is it's like the work that our soul has to do that.
• 1:18:02
  It can only do through incarnating.
• 1:18:05
  Into a biological form. So, It does work its way into
• 1:18:11
  good and bad but I feel like it's more description of like
• 1:18:15
  our life's work and what we are trying to achieve and accomplish
• 1:18:19
  within the biological form that we inhabit and depending on
• 1:18:25
  whether or not like we complete our Karma.
• 1:18:28
  It said that that's when you die.
• 1:18:32
  When you pass on to the to your next Incarnation and people will
• 1:18:36
  talk about like most like why how can you rationalize Lies
• 1:18:39
  like the death of a child like say a a three-year-old gets hit
• 1:18:42
  by a car or like a stillborn or something like that.
• 1:18:45
  You think like where is the divine nature of that?
• 1:18:49
  It's just seems terrible but the way that like a Buddhist would
• 1:18:53
  talk about that they would say like the the karma of that being
• 1:18:57
  has been completed and now they're moving on to their next
• 1:19:00
  Incarnation and we may not be able to understand that but also
• 1:19:05
  within that are lessons to be learned within our own Karma,
• 1:19:09
  like if it's my child, that happens to die, there are
• 1:19:14
  lessons that I am meant to learn from that event, that have to do
• 1:19:18
  with both my karma and the connected Karma of that being
• 1:19:23
  that dies. And there's like a concept
• 1:19:25
  called like your soul group. And it's possible that you
• 1:19:29
  travel these Realms and you sort of share Karma with your that
• 1:19:33
  group of souls. So that's a interesting aspect
• 1:19:36
  of it, too. Weak to that point that you just
• 1:19:38
  made. You know, maybe the audio dying
• 1:19:40
  before your time. I often hear this expression.
• 1:19:44
  Used he died before his time. You know?
• 1:19:47
  He died. Young Only the Good Die Young.
• 1:19:51
  I wonder like to your point. Just then about like different
• 1:19:55
  types of comic. Could you then argue that if you
• 1:19:59
  die young, maybe you achieved what you need to have achieved
• 1:20:02
  in previous lives. So then your current life is
• 1:20:05
  then cut short. Yeah, maybe it's just like,
• 1:20:09
  maybe you were a saint in your previous life, but you were just
• 1:20:13
  a little bit away from that Transcendence from your karma
• 1:20:16
  being done. So then you're born into your
• 1:20:18
  next Incarnation and like, you know, two years later, it's all
• 1:20:22
  complete. So time for you to go back
• 1:20:24
  again. That's the rationale that I
• 1:20:26
  think, some people say to stuff, I don't know if I can believe in
• 1:20:29
  that because it's just a seems so cruel.
• 1:20:32
  When these things happen, you know, really does.
• 1:20:34
  Like when I think about when I was growing up and See like
• 1:20:37
  friends pass away from a young age and you just like, where is
• 1:20:41
  the Justice in this? Where is the Morality In this?
• 1:20:45
  Like, things like that? Really make your question.
• 1:20:48
  I find that particularly when were talking about the idea of
• 1:20:50
  believing in religion, it really makes it hard for people,
• 1:20:55
  especially like there's people, I've met, who were religious for
• 1:20:58
  many many, many years, and then they kind of fell out of it
• 1:21:01
  because of something like that happening and it's hard to argue
• 1:21:05
  with, you know, I mean, you look at the world.
• 1:21:07
  As it is now with everything that's going on in it, there's
• 1:21:10
  always been horrible things going on in the world but it's
• 1:21:13
  like sometimes hard to believe in the concept of there, being
• 1:21:18
  something more than what we are. Because it's like, why would
• 1:21:21
  they allow this to happen? And I know right there, there
• 1:21:24
  would be an argument or well, you know, Free Will and that and
• 1:21:27
  I get that, but I don't know, man.
• 1:21:31
  There's a lot of suffering in the world.
• 1:21:33
  That he just makes you question it doesn't it really?
• 1:21:38
  Yeah. Man.
• 1:21:38
  The very first Noble Truth of Buddhism that is that inherent
• 1:21:43
  in reality and in the world is suffering.
• 1:21:46
  But you know when you talk about cruelty again, you know, cruelty
• 1:21:50
  is a matter of perspective, you know, we wouldn't consider
• 1:21:54
  eating a hamburger on a random Tuesday cruel.
• 1:21:57
  When you look at where that hamburger came from in the
• 1:21:59
  factory farming system, you know what I mean?
• 1:22:01
  It's like a matter of Effective. And if you go beyond your
• 1:22:06
  attachment to what you feel is, right?
• 1:22:09
  And what you feel is righteous, then you can realize that you
• 1:22:12
  know, cruelty might not be exactly what we think it is and
• 1:22:16
  the fact that we judge things in a positive or negative way, it
• 1:22:20
  might not be that way. And Ultimate Reality are like
• 1:22:24
  ultimate truth with a capital T. Hmm.
• 1:22:28
  So I knew I knew they'd show with this.
• 1:22:30
  Get me question, everything else.
• 1:22:32
  It's given me so many more questions, but I love it.
• 1:22:35
  I love it. Okay, let's talk about more
• 1:22:39
  about the choice element, the things which you touched on a
• 1:22:41
  little bit before. But I've got a couple of just
• 1:22:43
  random quotes here. When you die, you can choose to
• 1:22:48
  wonder reincarnate or Ascend. What do you make of the concept
• 1:22:52
  that you get to choose and I'll add another thing to this as
• 1:22:55
  well. If you're a good person in life,
• 1:22:58
  you get to choose your fate. If you're a bad person, you
• 1:23:01
  don't I love this. And again, I'm going to
• 1:23:04
  reference the rebirth concepts of Buddhism and that.
• 1:23:13
  There's a thought and I believe it's Tibetan Buddhism where in
• 1:23:18
  between your, your death and your reincarnation.
• 1:23:22
  There is, are there 49 days? Where depending on how you
• 1:23:27
  lived, your life, you get to sort of have more freedom to
• 1:23:29
  explore the Transcendent realm, where you can choose to stay
• 1:23:33
  there for a little while and hang out, you can choose to
• 1:23:37
  reincarnate right away or, you know, you can just wait out your
• 1:23:41
  whole time and after 49 Days. They're like yo you got to get
• 1:23:44
  back down there, it's time. So it does feel to me that
• 1:23:48
  depending on how much maybe love you, you give out to the world
• 1:23:54
  and the more you learn and the more you take the curriculum,
• 1:23:58
  the greater chance that you have to have freedom of choice within
• 1:24:02
  that realm. And maybe, you know, you get to
• 1:24:05
  choose or you have more of a freedom of choice of who and
• 1:24:09
  what you incarnate into. Like I've always thought that At
• 1:24:13
  like, say, like Mother Teresa or something like that or the Dalai
• 1:24:18
  Lama when they pass on because of all the love that they gave.
• 1:24:22
  And because of all the unconditional, love that they
• 1:24:25
  inhabited in this world, they may get to ascend to yet a
• 1:24:29
  higher being yet, a higher spiritual, awareness of
• 1:24:31
  incarnation. So it does feel like there's a
• 1:24:35
  value placed on what we do in this world.
• 1:24:38
  And depending on what we do, it does seem like it has an effect
• 1:24:43
  on on where we go. Maybe, maybe I like to think
• 1:24:47
  that, too. I mean, I just I can't help but
• 1:24:50
  feel like all the good things you do in your life or for
• 1:24:52
  nothing, it just feels like such a waste, I guess, we'll never
• 1:24:56
  know till the end and that's the whole point of this show.
• 1:25:00
  What if life is one big hologram?
• 1:25:04
  In The Matrix. It is man.
• 1:25:07
  It is a hologram. If you think about the way that
• 1:25:10
  your brain interprets reality, it's just a matter of brain
• 1:25:14
  chemistry that projects this reality onto it like maps and
• 1:25:18
  onto the information field that is the universe.
• 1:25:21
  If you just tweak your brain chemistry, everything around you
• 1:25:25
  changes. If you smoked DMT, which is
• 1:25:28
  actually endogenous in the human body, our body along with all of
• 1:25:33
  plants and animals it is All produced, we all produce DMT in
• 1:25:38
  our bodies, in our brains, and in our lungs, especially, and if
• 1:25:42
  you just tweak an endogenous chemical of your brain, your
• 1:25:46
  entire reality, just switches to this thing that is
• 1:25:49
  uninterpretable, something that you could not imagine ever being
• 1:25:53
  real. So to me.
• 1:25:56
  Yes, we are living in an illusion.
• 1:25:58
  This this whole thing that we consider reality is 100% a
• 1:26:03
  creation of of just synapses in our brain and the way that those
• 1:26:07
  synapses interact with our senses in which we can take
• 1:26:11
  information through, Just the interpretation.
• 1:26:15
  I was thinking more like maybe a sort of computer simulation, but
• 1:26:18
  I get where you're coming from on that.
• 1:26:20
  I think. I'd certainly do agree.
• 1:26:24
  This idea that we're not seeing the full picture.
• 1:26:29
  I really do. I mean, especially when you
• 1:26:31
  consider You know, like take like when someone is born blind
• 1:26:37
  and you hear about the stories of like how their senses are
• 1:26:40
  heightened elsewhere, and like, you know, like or even something
• 1:26:45
  like, I know it's fiction. But Daredevil, if you've ever
• 1:26:48
  seen the series Daredevil and how he's able to kind of see
• 1:26:52
  through, I mean I do part of it superhero stuff but like a lot
• 1:26:55
  of it is to do with heightening his sense of hearing to an
• 1:27:00
  extent that he's able to interpret sound.
• 1:27:04
  And kind of move in between it and see on that level and it's
• 1:27:08
  kind of a fascinating idea. Like well maybe there is maybe
• 1:27:10
  we are able to tune into things we didn't realize other senses.
• 1:27:15
  One thing I like to talk about often is the intuition I trust
• 1:27:20
  my gut and my intuition and to be honest a lot of the time it
• 1:27:25
  never thought to be the only time it over faults me is
• 1:27:28
  sometimes I'm fearful and it's it'll placed and anxiety, you
• 1:27:33
  know. But I feel like that's more the
• 1:27:34
  brain survival techniques, you know, survival tactics,
• 1:27:38
  whatever. But sometimes, you know, it's
• 1:27:41
  right. Like all I should avoid that
• 1:27:43
  person. There's something off about that
• 1:27:45
  person, and then that then person then turns out to be
• 1:27:48
  really Sinister or wrong. And, you know, sometimes it's
• 1:27:51
  not always as obvious, sometimes people are wearing a mask and
• 1:27:55
  you don't really find out till later and it's But yeah, I think
• 1:27:59
  there's something to be said, for the intuition might be
• 1:28:02
  something there. I don't know.
• 1:28:05
  What do you, what do you make of the intuition?
• 1:28:08
  Yeah, I feel like there. There's something there and it
• 1:28:11
  reminds me of like, synchronicity.
• 1:28:14
  Have you delved into the concept of synchronicity at all?
• 1:28:19
  Like an experience where it's like you're seeing something
• 1:28:25
  that is synchronistically impossible.
• 1:28:29
  Like for instance like I had and these like I had two different
• 1:28:34
  synchronicity experiences in the same day they weren't
• 1:28:40
  outrageous, they weren't crazy but they got me to think like
• 1:28:43
  hmmm you know what is really happening here?
• 1:28:45
  Like is the world connected to my Consciousness and Like a
• 1:28:48
  weird way that I can understand. So I'll tell a quick story.
• 1:28:51
  So me and my fiance, we were at a diner that we like to go to
• 1:28:55
  quite a bit and we were talking about just randomly, there's
• 1:28:59
  this, this Cavern that's near. It's about an hour away from
• 1:29:03
  where we live. It's called Crystal Cave and you
• 1:29:06
  go there and you can take a tour of the school Cavern and I was
• 1:29:11
  saying to her like yeah it would be kind of cool to go to Crystal
• 1:29:13
  Cave, maybe you need anything to experience and then I look to my
• 1:29:17
  right And a person gets up from their seat to leave and they
• 1:29:22
  have a Crystal Cave shirt on and I'm like, okay, that's
• 1:29:25
  interesting. So then we continue our
• 1:29:28
  conversation and I don't know how it happens, but it's it
• 1:29:32
  evolves to talking about lions and nature.
• 1:29:35
  And I was describing to her like, what what, what a pride is
• 1:29:39
  in like Lion tribes and like the pride is, it's essentially like,
• 1:29:42
  the tribe of lions and it almost felt like The universe was like
• 1:29:49
  laughing at me for not appreciating the synchronicity
• 1:29:53
  of the Crystal Cave shirt and thinking like that's just a
• 1:29:55
  coincidence. And I look behind me and an
• 1:29:58
  entire L like it was like a Middle School, baseball team,
• 1:30:02
  the entire team walked in to to the restaurant and every single
• 1:30:08
  one of them on their shirt said the word pride.
• 1:30:11
  Like it was their team name was called pride and I was like, no
• 1:30:14
  fucking way like come on and it gave me this weird feeling we're
• 1:30:18
  like the hairs on my back on the back of my neck stood up.
• 1:30:20
  And I was like, what is going on here?
• 1:30:22
  That's just strange. And you see number
• 1:30:25
  synchronicities and stuff all the time.
• 1:30:27
  And it just makes me believe that there's, there's a
• 1:30:31
  connection that were not quite getting.
• 1:30:35
  And if you look into the work of Carl Jung, he would suggest that
• 1:30:38
  synchronicities are like, if you're a Able to sort of, like,
• 1:30:42
  sit with them and identify them and recognize them.
• 1:30:45
  They will guide you down a path there.
• 1:30:48
  Like an unconscious path. That's, you know, similar to
• 1:30:51
  like the path of spirituality, how we were talking about with
• 1:30:54
  Pascal. If you live your life in a way
• 1:30:57
  over your identifying, synchronicities, you will,
• 1:31:00
  you'll inevitably sort of be let down like a path of progress or
• 1:31:04
  a path toward like your spiritual being or something
• 1:31:07
  like that. Yeah, this is kind of goes back
• 1:31:09
  to what I was talking about before the This idea of stepping
• 1:31:13
  outside of your, you know, physical, whatever, individual
• 1:31:17
  life, this life, we've created for ourselves and then allowing
• 1:31:20
  yourself to step in that spiritual realm that more the
• 1:31:24
  life that doesn't quite make exist.
• 1:31:26
  Doesn't quite make sense and has different rules.
• 1:31:29
  I think that's the key in, in all of this we understand the
• 1:31:32
  rules. In this little civilization,
• 1:31:34
  we've created for ourselves because it's like, oh, you know,
• 1:31:37
  you're born, you get a job, you pay your money and then that's
• 1:31:40
  it pretty much. You you kind of, you know, you
• 1:31:43
  choose how you want to navigate that, but that's kind of the
• 1:31:46
  Crux of it if you really break it down to its Bare Bones but
• 1:31:50
  The rules are like totally different with the spiritual
• 1:31:53
  life. It's like you're stepping out
• 1:31:55
  into the unknown. Like, you don't know what's
• 1:31:57
  coming out there and it feels weird.
• 1:31:59
  It feels like I have sometimes people talk about this idea of
• 1:32:05
  Their psychic like inviting the spirit realm, into their world.
• 1:32:09
  And that once it's open, you can't shut it off.
• 1:32:11
  And I like that, that terrifies me, the idea that I wouldn't be
• 1:32:15
  able to cope with that, like hearing shit all the time.
• 1:32:17
  Like sometimes I hear it. So I remember one time I had a
• 1:32:20
  dream, this was in the last place that I live, which I'm
• 1:32:23
  convinced was haunted wasn't like, obviously haunted.
• 1:32:26
  But like, you know, every once in a while, I think, saying, at
• 1:32:28
  the corner of your eye, but I remember one time I was waking
• 1:32:32
  up, but I was in that kind of Was he still wasn't really sure
• 1:32:35
  if I was awake or not. It's kind of like half awake and
• 1:32:39
  I just heard like a woman's name calling my voice at first it was
• 1:32:43
  like Chris Chris and then it just went Chris like the really
• 1:32:47
  loud and I wake up and I'm like who was that?
• 1:32:51
  But it felt like a familiar voice.
• 1:32:54
  It and he kind of threw me off for a while and I was like that
• 1:32:58
  feeling was do it because it's one thing if it's just like a,
• 1:33:01
  you know, like a nightmare or dream but you know the
• 1:33:03
  different. You can feel that there's a
• 1:33:05
  difference. I can't explain it.
• 1:33:08
  And I'm probably I've said that like a million times and they
• 1:33:10
  shoot but like you can't explain it.
• 1:33:12
  It's just there, it feels different and maybe that's
• 1:33:15
  something I don't know. But talking about some things
• 1:33:19
  and nothing's and everything in between.
• 1:33:22
  Josh. What if we die?
• 1:33:26
  And there's nothing. So possible.
• 1:33:30
  Very, very possible if we die and there's nothing.
• 1:33:35
  Well, so be it, you know, back to Pascal.
• 1:33:39
  If you live your life in a way where you believe there's
• 1:33:42
  something after it, then you can, you will have made the best
• 1:33:46
  of the life that you've had. And to me, that's the most
• 1:33:50
  important part because your spirituality and what you
• 1:33:54
  believe happens after death and all this stuff, it's only as
• 1:33:58
  useful as you You make it in your everyday waking experience
• 1:34:02
  of life. Beautifully.
• 1:34:04
  Put, I'm going to move the show on now, so we've got content
• 1:34:10
  coming up from Vilma. Shout out to Vilma.
• 1:34:13
  She's brilliant. Thank you so much for all your
• 1:34:16
  help with the show and especially with these episodes.
• 1:34:21
  She really went the distance with this and I cannot express
• 1:34:25
  how grateful I am. So thank you so much.
• 1:34:28
  The first thing I wanted to share was she put it a death
• 1:34:31
  story which when I first read it I was like I'll just read it
• 1:34:36
  out. And let's, let's break this down
• 1:34:38
  and see what we both think about this.
• 1:34:41
  She said here is a death story, which my stepdad had told me
• 1:34:44
  about his grandparents, both of whom died in 1975.
• 1:34:49
  I wasn't sure whether I should send this to you because I don't
• 1:34:52
  know if it fits in with the life after death episode.
• 1:34:54
  Well, it made the cut. So, there you go.
• 1:34:58
  So my grandpa step grandparents had been married for ages and
• 1:35:02
  they were both in their 70s. When the wife fell very ill,
• 1:35:06
  their daughter had brought them their first TV to keep them
• 1:35:09
  company and the husband was very keen of it.
• 1:35:13
  Always admiring the beautiful women or dances on screen
• 1:35:16
  commenting on how beautiful they were just to annoy his old wife.
• 1:35:20
  The wife didn't like this at all.
• 1:35:22
  And so one day she told him, take care old man.
• 1:35:25
  For I will go soon but I won't let you carry on like this.
• 1:35:29
  I will come and get you in exactly 30 days.
• 1:35:33
  The old old wife passed away on the 15th of March After the
• 1:35:38
  funeral, one of the daughters started telling her family, that
• 1:35:41
  they would issue him a passport and take him with her from
• 1:35:45
  Greece to Canada, where the whole family lived.
• 1:35:49
  As they didn't want to leave him all alone.
• 1:35:51
  But the old man kept saying that he didn't want to go because his
• 1:35:55
  wife would come and get him. He stopped watching TV and just
• 1:35:59
  seem to be waiting. Very calmly.
• 1:36:02
  His daughter kept telling him how wonderful it would be for
• 1:36:05
  him to travel to a new country soon.
• 1:36:07
  And so on. And he kept replying that he
• 1:36:09
  wasn't going anywhere because his wife was coming for him on
• 1:36:13
  the morning of the 15th of April exactly 30 days.
• 1:36:17
  After the wife's death, the daughter found, her old father
• 1:36:20
  dead in his bed. He had died peacefully during
• 1:36:23
  the night. Before I get what your thoughts
• 1:36:27
  are on that Josh, I'm just going to say what I think straight
• 1:36:29
  away. I think that man knew exactly
• 1:36:33
  when he was going to pass away I think it came to him but I think
• 1:36:38
  there's two ways that it could have come to him either.
• 1:36:41
  He just knew it in his heart which I'm kind of more inclined
• 1:36:45
  to believe you know you can argue like it's a manifestation
• 1:36:49
  of someone he knew maybe even his wife telling him I think in
• 1:36:53
  his heart he knew he It one day, it just clicked and it was a
• 1:36:58
  matter of time, and I believe that he did kind of peacefully.
• 1:37:01
  See out the rest of those days, probably spent those 30 days
• 1:37:03
  kind of just reflecting on life, and just seeing it through.
• 1:37:07
  And then, when the time came, the time came, And I would like
• 1:37:11
  to know what you think, Josh. I think that the closer a person
• 1:37:16
  comes to their death, the more they can sense it and I do think
• 1:37:22
  the soul can choose whether or not look at wants to remain in
• 1:37:29
  this realm to a degree. You know, when my so, my my
• 1:37:34
  grandfather died, and then a year later, almost to the date.
• 1:37:39
  My grandmother died. And when she uses laying in bed,
• 1:37:43
  you know, it was Day a few days before she passed, you could see
• 1:37:47
  that like she wasn't there. But she was talking to my
• 1:37:52
  grandfather, like she would and she would come back.
• 1:37:55
  And she would say, oh, I just talked to pop and I'm just like,
• 1:37:58
  huh. That's interesting, you know,
• 1:38:01
  because you can sort of tell when someone's like bullshitting
• 1:38:03
  and like why would somebody who's on their deathbed bullshit
• 1:38:07
  and you could all wait. I mean, you could always
• 1:38:08
  rationalize it as like saying, oh, you know, they were just
• 1:38:10
  sort of hallucinating This and like, you know, their desires
• 1:38:13
  and their needs and their love for their loved one that passed
• 1:38:16
  on is like influencing them and this and that but part of me
• 1:38:19
  believes that When you're close to death, you have like one foot
• 1:38:25
  in the door of death and one foot out and in having one foot
• 1:38:31
  in there's there's certain things you can sense certain
• 1:38:34
  things you can see and interpret and it I think those are legit.
• 1:38:40
  I really do and again, back to like the synchronicity aspect, I
• 1:38:42
  think that there's is more of a connection to the world or the
• 1:38:47
  realm of death and like it's connection with us.
• 1:38:51
  In our Waking Life than we appreciate or them.
• 1:38:54
  We think is real. I agree with that.
• 1:39:00
  I think it kind of goes back to what we were talking about
• 1:39:03
  earlier and on the state of the soul that person, if they're
• 1:39:06
  ready to go, the ready to go, it's been accepted and it's just
• 1:39:10
  a matter of time. And I think that if someone is
• 1:39:13
  not ready to go, they're more inclined to just I think I
• 1:39:17
  actually I'll add something to this.
• 1:39:18
  I think this is kind of one of the reasons why some people
• 1:39:22
  almost stubbornly keep living. Because they've not quite come
• 1:39:28
  to terms with things not. Come to terms with like loss or
• 1:39:31
  things like that. But not come to terms with
• 1:39:33
  themself. They, you know, sometimes
• 1:39:34
  someone passes away and then their significant other takes
• 1:39:39
  another 20 years before they pass away.
• 1:39:42
  And some people will argue with that's cruel.
• 1:39:43
  Why didn't they pass away together and I argue well, I
• 1:39:47
  think our relationship in its best form is understood to be
• 1:39:51
  two people coming together to share experiences and love and
• 1:39:55
  life and everything. But you're still separate from
• 1:39:59
  each other, you still separate Journeys and I feel because of
• 1:40:03
  that perspective, that's why there are these distances but
• 1:40:07
  sometimes between deaf so means sometimes you'll hear people say
• 1:40:10
  like oh he died of a broken heart.
• 1:40:13
  And I think maybe that's true. Sometimes, you know, you, you
• 1:40:17
  you feel that Devastation and then you wonder, well, is there
• 1:40:20
  any need for me to be here anymore?
• 1:40:23
  So it's less a broken heart more.
• 1:40:24
  A kind of a coming to is a broken heart, but it's also
• 1:40:27
  coming to terms with one's own sense of need or purpose.
• 1:40:32
  And I think it always comes back to that.
• 1:40:34
  A sense of purpose, in that story, that was just told.
• 1:40:38
  There were younger people saying, hey you could come
• 1:40:40
  travel with Universe, you could do this, you could do that that
• 1:40:42
  man. Done that.
• 1:40:43
  If that man felt like he had more time he needed to do more.
• 1:40:48
  I think he could have found the strength within himself to do
• 1:40:52
  that, but I think he was content, he understood?
• 1:40:55
  No, this is it. This is time.
• 1:40:57
  I accept it. You know the man cometh and the
• 1:41:02
  man taketh away. So now is my time maybe yeah.
• 1:41:06
  I mean if you look at as we were talking about earlier, you know
• 1:41:09
  his life's work, his karma may have been directly related to
• 1:41:13
  his wife's and they completed it together.
• 1:41:15
  You know, if you consider like a soul group or a soul family, you
• 1:41:18
  know that it's very possible that, you know, they Traverse
• 1:41:21
  both the physical and the non-physical Realms together.
• 1:41:25
  Absolutely. I'm gonna jump through some
• 1:41:29
  questions that Vilma has sent us.
• 1:41:31
  I will try to skip any that we've already kind of spoken
• 1:41:35
  about. So then we just go for the first
• 1:41:38
  one, we've already explored. Let's see.
• 1:41:40
  If there's no judgment in the afterlife.
• 1:41:43
  Why should we be good and fair in this lifetime and not just
• 1:41:46
  taken do whatever we want without thinking of the
• 1:41:49
  consequences? I spoke about this a little bit
• 1:41:53
  earlier so did you. But let's get our initial
• 1:41:58
  thoughts on that. For me it's just it's it's a
• 1:42:02
  matter of perspective and this life is it's to learn.
• 1:42:07
  And whether or not you do good or bad, you know?
• 1:42:09
  It's again, it's all about the curriculum, you know?
• 1:42:12
  And when you do pass on whatever good or bad, you did, you're
• 1:42:18
  going to learn from it and if you are incarnated into a new
• 1:42:21
  biological form then that's going to depend on what you did.
• 1:42:24
  But yeah, I really do think it's all about learning and growth
• 1:42:28
  and also, The fact that we have such an attachment to the good,
• 1:42:33
  and we have such an aversion to the bat.
• 1:42:35
  I think is sort of misplaced because in order to give context
• 1:42:41
  to the good, you have to have the bad.
• 1:42:43
  So the people who are doing bad and committing evil, they're
• 1:42:46
  filling their role and their role among other things,
• 1:42:50
  including their own karma, is to give context to the good.
• 1:42:55
  It could be something to the I will speak to the point about
• 1:43:00
  why shouldn't we just go around and just do whatever the hell we
• 1:43:03
  want? I think it comes down to that
• 1:43:08
  inner feeling like I mentioned before that, I'm not religious,
• 1:43:12
  I'm obviously familiar with the sense of morality but then
• 1:43:17
  morality was something that was taught to me.
• 1:43:19
  But you then again sometimes you look at children who are barely
• 1:43:22
  like a few years old And they understand morality and what's
• 1:43:28
  right almost instantaneously like it's a natural thing and
• 1:43:32
  that makes me think that it maybe it is maybe it has to do
• 1:43:36
  with something higher than ourselves and perhaps that is
• 1:43:40
  why we should live a life doing what's right and thinking of the
• 1:43:44
  consequences if we don't, it just to speak briefly to calm a,
• 1:43:50
  because we kind of exported earlier, but we didn't explore
• 1:43:52
  this element to it. I think.
• 1:43:55
  Personally Karma Works in different ways.
• 1:43:58
  I don't think it's just one thing.
• 1:44:00
  I think that sometimes Karma could be instant and it's kind
• 1:44:03
  of funny because it's just like straight away.
• 1:44:06
  I think sometimes it can be years in the making but
• 1:44:10
  sometimes I feel like Maybe what's truest is the fact that
• 1:44:15
  we're kind of like disconnected from each other.
• 1:44:17
  So when you see someone who has wronged you doing well, and
• 1:44:21
  you're like, where is their karma?
• 1:44:22
  For what they did to me? Maybe it's coming, it's just not
• 1:44:25
  coming when you think it's right for them, maybe it's coming.
• 1:44:29
  Who knows? At the end of their life in the
• 1:44:31
  next five minutes in their next life, who knows, it could just
• 1:44:36
  be coming at a different time. and it might not always be fair
• 1:44:42
  but there's a lot in life that isn't fair and it's frustrating
• 1:44:45
  but it's Something to think about.
• 1:44:48
  And we've had a lot to think about here.
• 1:44:51
  I'm just going to run through some more of these Michael
• 1:44:54
  Armstrong. A Tick-Tock Creator had multiple
• 1:44:57
  videos about mind-bending things.
• 1:44:59
  That children have said about past lives and life after death.
• 1:45:03
  Do people remember their past lives as little children and
• 1:45:06
  then forget everything. I think this is a fascinating
• 1:45:09
  question. I've wondered this a lot because
• 1:45:11
  I've seen and heard stories of like children, recounting things
• 1:45:16
  that it's impossible. Possible for them to have any
• 1:45:19
  memory of I've seen and heard of like, number one story, I heard
• 1:45:22
  where a child was talking to their mother and saying things
• 1:45:27
  like, oh, you know, we use, I used to take you here as when
• 1:45:31
  you were a kid or something. And then it turns out that they
• 1:45:34
  were reliving like a memories of that person.
• 1:45:39
  That so, what would have been their grandparent?
• 1:45:43
  And you could argue, well maybe they've reincarnated that.
• 1:45:45
  There's then. Maybe, maybe we have the
• 1:45:47
  memories of our ancestors. That could be a concept.
• 1:45:50
  What do you make of that? Josh man is so fascinating
• 1:45:54
  there. There's actually a lot of really
• 1:45:58
  credible research that's being done in this field like they're
• 1:46:01
  researching children who are claiming to have past lives and
• 1:46:06
  have no memories of their past lives and they're actually
• 1:46:10
  finding that a high percentage of these Children are describing
• 1:46:14
  true stories and true stories about real people.
• 1:46:18
  Like an alarmingly high percentage.
• 1:46:21
  I think the man's name is Ian Stevenson.
• 1:46:25
  I think he has since passed away, but his Protege gym,
• 1:46:29
  something or the other. I forget his name, has continued
• 1:46:33
  This research and they're finding very peculiar
• 1:46:36
  connections between when they actually do dig up the
• 1:46:41
  background of the person who the child is.
• 1:46:43
  Claiming to have been very, very eerie similarities.
• 1:46:46
  So I tend to believe that there's something to this.
• 1:46:51
  Damn, speaking of things that are going to give us uneasy
• 1:46:55
  feelings is deja, vu, evidence of previous lifetimes or, and
• 1:47:03
  I'm going to add to this as well.
• 1:47:04
  I put this in Brackets or dreams dreaming the future.
• 1:47:08
  This is something that I've done.
• 1:47:10
  I've spoken about this in previous shows, I get deja vu
• 1:47:13
  quite a lot, but what I get more commonly is this and I don't
• 1:47:16
  know if this is like reverse Déjà Vu but there's been times
• 1:47:19
  in my life where I've dreamt something that has happened 10
• 1:47:23
  15 years later but because I dreamt it before it happened, I
• 1:47:27
  dreamt it out of content on context so I didn't know what I
• 1:47:30
  was dreaming. Now later in life.
• 1:47:33
  I kind of look at it differently and I sort of think back to what
• 1:47:36
  we were talking about before with the idea of time and how
• 1:47:39
  it's not linear. It makes me think that maybe
• 1:47:42
  Deja Vu is like a distortion in time.
• 1:47:45
  It's kind of throwing an idea to you like, hey, here's a thing
• 1:47:48
  that happened or is going to happen or Happen, all of the
• 1:47:53
  above, you know, that's exactly what came to my mind, is the
• 1:47:57
  linearity if that's what we're out of time.
• 1:47:59
  And if time isn't linear in the way that we measure it and our
• 1:48:03
  minds and our Consciousness have the ability to sort of
• 1:48:06
  experience different like parts of time, all at once.
• 1:48:11
  Then yeah, I could definitely see that happening.
• 1:48:15
  I've had I've never actually had a dream myself that has come to
• 1:48:19
  fruition but like My brother one time and this is a very peculiar
• 1:48:23
  dream that he had to. He had a dream that our father
• 1:48:28
  crashed are like family van into the fence and are at our house,
• 1:48:35
  very random dream. You know things that you would
• 1:48:38
  not experience or think what actually happened and like a
• 1:48:42
  week later it happened, like, just so odd, you know?
• 1:48:46
  And it's like you could try to say like all the science says,
• 1:48:50
  but I mean How do you explain that?
• 1:48:53
  I'll add to that as well. Premonitions.
• 1:48:56
  Yeah, people expect dreaming of events before they happen.
• 1:48:59
  Major world disasters, and are not just humans, as well as
• 1:49:03
  animals. I remember seeing some footage
• 1:49:05
  on Reddit of the birds in Turkey, prior to the earthquake,
• 1:49:13
  actually happening. They were circling around and
• 1:49:16
  acting very erratic in a very odd way that they don't normally
• 1:49:19
  act. And yet people, Who argue no
• 1:49:21
  while, you know, they just, they sent something, they sense,
• 1:49:23
  something is different, but then how can they sense that the
• 1:49:27
  Earth is going to like move in such a wet?
• 1:49:30
  Can they feel it? They fit.
• 1:49:32
  I suppose you could argue, they can feel the vibrations coming
• 1:49:34
  maybe but sometimes people can have premonitions as you know
• 1:49:39
  weeks before something happens days before.
• 1:49:41
  Something happens where you know scientifically.
• 1:49:44
  There's no kind of Indicator or thing that could kind of give
• 1:49:49
  away. What's about to happen?
• 1:49:50
  You know. Yeah it's so intriguing and I
• 1:49:53
  just don't think the Avenues of science give you the answers to
• 1:49:57
  you know again like a lot of these spiritual Concepts.
• 1:50:01
  Do angels exist. Wow, that's interesting
• 1:50:06
  question. I guess it depends on what you
• 1:50:08
  mean by Angel, if you continue. I'm just going to add one thing
• 1:50:12
  into this because when I asked you that question we both kind
• 1:50:17
  of sit here in. Probably the first thing that
• 1:50:19
  comes to mind is oh you know, and lovely, warm friendly being
• 1:50:24
  coming down to us. Give us a nice experience.
• 1:50:27
  There was a show that I saw a few years back.
• 1:50:30
  I think on Netflix I can't for the life of me.
• 1:50:32
  Remember the name it's basically in some Small village somewhere
• 1:50:37
  that these characters have to, like, get a boat to or
• 1:50:42
  something, from the mainland, let's go drive me nuts.
• 1:50:44
  I know people in the comments will know exactly what this is
• 1:50:47
  and it drives me nuts because I spoke about it years ago,
• 1:50:49
  basically, what happens. I'm going to ruin it.
• 1:50:52
  This priest comes back to this island and he'd been away in
• 1:50:58
  like Italy or no Jerusalem, I think he was and he'd come back,
• 1:51:02
  but he was an older, man. Then he comes back.
• 1:51:05
  Sort of Nuri boy. He's like basically his younger
• 1:51:08
  self and that's impossible. Right.
• 1:51:10
  But he says he's someone else and he has this large box with
• 1:51:14
  him, a huge massive. Dodgy looking box.
• 1:51:22
  Later on it transpires. That in this box he has some
• 1:51:25
  sort of creature. And this creature likes to like
• 1:51:28
  basically suck the blood of these people and turn them into
• 1:51:32
  beasts, like this being anyway, eventually.
• 1:51:36
  It gets to the point where this being is presented in front of
• 1:51:40
  the congregation and is referred to as an angel.
• 1:51:46
  It could be an angel in the sense that it brought these
• 1:51:49
  people back to, you know, better health.
• 1:51:53
  Sometimes it resurrected people, it could be a fucking vampire,
• 1:51:58
  who knows? It's just fiction but it got me
• 1:52:02
  thinking whenever I think about the concept of angels, it also
• 1:52:06
  begs the question if angels exist Maybe They're evil or
• 1:52:12
  maybe, you know, their demons disguised as Angels or you know,
• 1:52:18
  but what do you make of that? I did interrupt you.
• 1:52:20
  I just wanted to add that in before you continue.
• 1:52:23
  So it's quite possible that angels exist as what they would
• 1:52:28
  call like Spirit guides after your death, you know, the the
• 1:52:34
  entities that help you to go over your life review and that
• 1:52:38
  guide you towards your next Incarnation.
• 1:52:40
  Those You considered angels in which case like that's what I
• 1:52:42
  would think an angel would be with some sort of like Astro
• 1:52:46
  entity that you experience after death and possibly even you
• 1:52:51
  know, when you take a psychedelic sometimes you will
• 1:52:54
  experience entity interactions and you'll converse with
• 1:52:57
  something that is definitely not you and definitely has
• 1:53:00
  Intelligence. This is an experience that is
• 1:53:03
  just mind-blowing and that could be considered an angel as well.
• 1:53:08
  Did you experience anything like that?
• 1:53:10
  When you Taking Zia. See the drugs, I didn't ask, but
• 1:53:17
  I try to figure a cool way to put that in it, just the words
• 1:53:19
  Escape me. And now just look like a loser.
• 1:53:21
  Did you experience that I have? I experienced it.
• 1:53:26
  One time with mushrooms a very high dose and another time with
• 1:53:29
  DMT and it's just it's you can't explain it and it's like you
• 1:53:37
  with DMT it was very visual as well.
• 1:53:39
  Like this thing appeared because me and when you do the Mt
• 1:53:43
  generally, Expected that you're going to close your eyes because
• 1:53:46
  you open your eyes. I mean, your reality is just
• 1:53:48
  like falling apart in front of you, and it's not really a great
• 1:53:52
  experience, where you get the real knowledge in the real
• 1:53:55
  wisdom and love is when you close your eyes and you, it
• 1:53:57
  takes you somewhere else and one time, it took me to a place
• 1:54:01
  where and this is so strange, because I am not a Christian in
• 1:54:05
  any way, shape, or form, but it would appear in front of me was
• 1:54:10
  a mother Mary entity. Look just like the mother Mary,
• 1:54:13
  but she was made of like stained glass, and it was just the most
• 1:54:16
  beautiful thing. And she was just exuded this
• 1:54:19
  love to me and she was like, telepathically communicating
• 1:54:22
  with me, like, welcoming me to the realm.
• 1:54:24
  Like she's, like, finally, you've made it your here.
• 1:54:26
  Like now, let's go travel a little bit.
• 1:54:29
  And let me show you a little bit about what this about, like,
• 1:54:31
  what this whole place is about. And she started to just kind of
• 1:54:34
  like while giving me all this love.
• 1:54:36
  Just like taking me around this, like weird, like place it's so
• 1:54:41
  hard to thrive in the tears were flowing out of my eyes.
• 1:54:43
  It was just It was so beautiful, but when you experience
• 1:54:47
  something like that it makes you think like like that to me is
• 1:54:51
  the epitome of the definition of what an angel could potentially
• 1:54:55
  be. Those experiences inspire you to
• 1:54:59
  be a better person. Do you think afterwards?
• 1:55:01
  Absolutely recontextualize. My priorities and you know, when
• 1:55:07
  you have like a direct experience of unconditional,
• 1:55:10
  love it. Just changes everything about
• 1:55:12
  the way you look at the world yourself other people, it's just
• 1:55:16
  amazing. Would you set us?
• 1:55:18
  Because it was something that you were lacking in your life at
• 1:55:21
  that point? Or was it just kind of to
• 1:55:22
  reaffirm it? I think it's something that I
• 1:55:25
  was lacking a true connection to because I feel that when we go
• 1:55:31
  into this somebody training and we go into this this societal
• 1:55:35
  Paradigm where we're valuing physical things and money.
• 1:55:40
  And we're, you know, we're disconnecting ourselves from
• 1:55:42
  Spirit and from compassionate friend, from unconditional love,
• 1:55:46
  and when you have An experience, like what a psychedelic can
• 1:55:49
  offer it reconnects you to something that is deep deep
• 1:55:54
  inside of you, that feels like home.
• 1:55:56
  It feels like where we all come from and it feels like what
• 1:55:59
  we're all meant to be and what we're all meant to strive for
• 1:56:03
  Amazing. Yeah, as we draw things to a
• 1:56:08
  close man, any kind of final thoughts on this topic?
• 1:56:11
  As we wrap it up, man. What comes to mind is like
• 1:56:15
  something I said earlier, you know, when it comes to death,
• 1:56:18
  it's like I consider us in our Consciousness, you know, like a,
• 1:56:22
  you know, a drop in the ocean. And right now, this drop is
• 1:56:25
  inhabiting this, this biological finite form and when the body
• 1:56:30
  dies and when the, the finite form ceases to exist, Missed,
• 1:56:34
  you know, our little drop of water is placed back into the
• 1:56:36
  ocean of Consciousness and that's where all the love is,
• 1:56:40
  that's where it's all happening and I think that's where home
• 1:56:43
  is. I don't know why I'm thinking of
• 1:56:46
  this, but for some reason, the thing that comes to mind for me
• 1:56:52
  is I was I recently saw my family and I was with my stepmom
• 1:56:57
  and she was showing me to give you some context.
• 1:57:00
  I'm about to turn 30 years old in May.
• 1:57:03
  I'm 29 that's 10:30. The big 30 and my stepmom showed
• 1:57:08
  me a photo album of when she was 30 a party that I actually
• 1:57:14
  attended and it's a really Beautiful scrapbook, that shows
• 1:57:17
  her life growing up and all these photos.
• 1:57:19
  I've never seen and and then it shows that party that I went to
• 1:57:23
  when I was like 14 or something, and it blew my mind and I
• 1:57:29
  vaguely remember it. But I remember there was a photo
• 1:57:33
  of someone who passed away maybe eight years ago now and he was a
• 1:57:40
  close family, friend of ours. Kind of like an uncle.
• 1:57:42
  I supposed to me and I was just Just looking at that photo and
• 1:57:46
  it's kind of bittersweet because you always remember the good
• 1:57:49
  things about someone. Yeah, you don't.
• 1:57:51
  I mean, obviously depends on person.
• 1:57:52
  Maybe some people you only think about the bad things, but when
• 1:57:55
  it's someone you loved, you think about good things.
• 1:57:57
  And he was a really, really lovely guy.
• 1:57:59
  Really wonderful human being. But I remember just looking at
• 1:58:02
  the photo, And I remember thinking a few things, like
• 1:58:06
  obviously I missed him but part of me was like he is alive in my
• 1:58:10
  hand in the in my palm. In this photo he is alive and he
• 1:58:13
  looked like young Guru and there was like a senescence, the
• 1:58:18
  furrow and it was like a court frame and time opposed beautiful
• 1:58:23
  moment in time for him. It was probably just a quick
• 1:58:27
  snapshot like a while. Hey, just stand here quickly,
• 1:58:29
  I'll take this photo move on, you know, but It's there
• 1:58:33
  forever. And, you know, there's this
• 1:58:36
  expression that you die twice, first, you die in this realm and
• 1:58:42
  then you die. Once the last person says your
• 1:58:44
  name or you know your memory dies and some people live
• 1:58:47
  forever because their memories and Legacies are forever
• 1:58:49
  discussed and some people died the minute.
• 1:58:51
  They die. You know because they never
• 1:58:53
  spoken about again. And it just that is the kind of
• 1:58:57
  coolness that I sometimes see in life.
• 1:58:59
  Like I think about people that passed away only a few years ago
• 1:59:02
  and now no one talks about them and it's it's bittersweet but
• 1:59:07
  it's also part of life because you have to carry on, you can't
• 1:59:10
  sit and you should you should think about your loved ones, the
• 1:59:13
  ones that past and celebrate them as much as possible and
• 1:59:16
  remember the good times, but you have to keep going, that's the
• 1:59:20
  weird brutality of it all, is it?
• 1:59:22
  We're forced to do that and Whenever I think about death and
• 1:59:27
  life after death, if I like many things in life, I get this like
• 1:59:31
  feeling of like, kind of a Bittersweet feeling, you know, I
• 1:59:35
  think about the good and the bad and inevitably.
• 1:59:37
  I start thinking about the day that I die and when that will be
• 1:59:41
  and well, I've achieved the things I wanted to achieve, will
• 1:59:45
  it have meant anything or will it have been for nothing?
• 1:59:47
  And all I can really do is focus on what my dad always says,
• 1:59:51
  which is just a live in the now, be in this moment right here,
• 1:59:54
  right now. Not think about anything else
• 1:59:57
  and ever since I started doing that, I started to enjoy life a
• 2:00:02
  bit more. So those are my final closing
• 2:00:07
  thoughts on this on this topic. A massive.
• 2:00:09
  Thank you, Josh, but for being on the show, man, I knew that
• 2:00:12
  we'd have a blast and I personally felt like we did.
• 2:00:16
  I don't know. How do you feel about it, man?
• 2:00:18
  Oh man, it was, it was so much fun.
• 2:00:20
  I appreciate you so much. Christian, your your mind and
• 2:00:23
  your heart are open, and I can sense that And I just I really
• 2:00:26
  love talking to you man, indeed. Happy 200.
• 2:00:28
  It's a Cuban. Yeah, I couldn't think of a
• 2:00:33
  better way to set up because another thing as well, but this
• 2:00:35
  episode I was a bit worried. Like, is this too heavy?
• 2:00:38
  Is this like not really a positive thing?
• 2:00:41
  I think about like, always life after death, like, you know, but
• 2:00:44
  I can't be positive. I think we've explored a lot of
• 2:00:46
  positive things in this and nothing is more fascinating than
• 2:00:50
  exploring, you know, existentialism that the the
• 2:00:54
  reasons are Being like I feel like these are questions that we
• 2:00:57
  should be asking ourselves all the time.
• 2:00:59
  Like take a step out of your reality for a moment and just
• 2:01:02
  sit and think about these things.
• 2:01:04
  What does it mean to be alive? What does it mean to have
• 2:01:06
  purpose? And what does it mean to feel
• 2:01:09
  and love and all of these different things and if you have
• 2:01:12
  these things, Bill them to their truest and fullest extent.
• 2:01:17
  Thank you so much. Josh make sure everybody goes
• 2:01:20
  and checks out the infinity pursuit of infinity podcast and
• 2:01:23
  any messed up, pursuit of infinity podcast, check it out
• 2:01:26
  close close to 50 episodes on that show.
• 2:01:28
  Brilliant. Brilliant show, go check it out.
• 2:01:32
  Josh will be back for our next episode on near-death
• 2:01:35
  experiences, which we didn't cover here today because while I
• 2:01:39
  mean, look, we got 22 hours today.
• 2:01:41
  If I we've done near-death experiences, it would have been
• 2:01:44
  maybe five and There's a lot to cover, it's a whole other realm,
• 2:01:49
  and I'm kind of Blown Away by how much ground there is to
• 2:01:52
  cover and how much ground we covered today.
• 2:01:55
  So, make sure that you join us for that show.
• 2:01:58
  I hope you enjoyed this show. And as always, thank you very
• 2:02:01
  much for listening. Be safe, be well, and I'll see
• 2:02:04
  you in the next one.