Latest / The BlackSheep Podcast: Presented by HM Magazine / Matt Carter: Emery | Furnace Fest 2024 Series

Transcript

Matt Carter: Emery | Furnace Fest 2024 Series · The BlackSheep Podcast: Presented by HM Magazine

• 0:25
  Speaker 1: Everyone Today, We've got Matt Carter from Emory with us,
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: super excited to chat with you. Matt, how are you
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: doing today? It looks like I'm doing It looks like
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: you're in a camper van, but I know you're not
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: in a camper van.
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: Nope, I'm in a I'm in a bedroom that is
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: similar to a camper.
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: Van, just a small little bedroom with the lofted bed
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: and everything.
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: That's right, just like a It's like a tour bus,
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: except my daughter lives in here.
• 0:53
  Speaker 3: Do you feel more at home in a very small
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: room with customized bunk?
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: I feel anything that's cut is where I feel good.
• 1:01
  Speaker 4: Anything that is not custom I start to get nervous.
• 1:05
  Speaker 4: You know, you can.
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: Imagine school, prison, army not good. So whatever, I get
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: to make it the way I want it, that's what
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: I like.
• 1:13
  Speaker 4: Doesn't matter, you know, that's kind of the criteria.
• 1:15
  Speaker 3: Sure, what happens when you go into a buddy's house
• 1:19
  Speaker 3: in the suburbs and they've got the cookie cutter houses
• 1:22
  Speaker 3: where everyone looks the same. How do you feel when
• 1:24
  Speaker 3: you walk into one of those clinical kind of homes.
• 1:27
  Speaker 4: It's it's it is okay. I do understand it. I
• 1:31
  Speaker 4: can respect it, but I just I think you're nice.
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: I grew up in the very rural setting, like in
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: the woods, very rural, so to me, the fact, you know,
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: the rural situation is very every land every place.
• 1:48
  Speaker 4: All the woods are you know, different, unique and whatever.
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: And I also really am a big fan of the city,
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: Like I live in the city in Seattle and stuff,
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: and it's like, I love New York. I really like
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: the really, but I have a heart I'm fitting in
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: because I grew up in a rural setting, but the
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: in between suburbs is the least of what works for me.
• 2:09
  Speaker 4: But I struggle to live in the city.
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: But I like the stimulation level of a city a lot,
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: and I like nature, you know what I mean.
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I feel like I would either if I
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: had a choice, I'd either go with super rule like
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: nobody lives anywhere near me or super like high rise
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: city kind of like vibe. But like, yeah, that that
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: like sort of suburb vibe not for me, not for me.
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: Right, And there's there's good things about it. I've done
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: it before, but it's not my favorite.
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: I get it.
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: But it's all dy al custom anything I can make
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: my own and make it you know, it doesn't matter
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: it's good or bad.
• 2:41
  Speaker 4: It's just that I'm in control of how it is.
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: I like that other other than your music, obviously, what
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: is the most what is the thing you're most proud
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: of when it comes to a customized project you've completed.
• 2:55
  Speaker 4: Oh, you know it is maybe customize to tell those kids, yeah.
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: Well the yeah kids are that way, but the you know,
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: it's true that when the scene was kind of down,
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: let's say, like there's a period before this period about
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: two thousand and nine when we did get our own bus.
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: We bought a Greyhound bus and converted it so we
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: could manage it and run and build it ourself, versus
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: before that we were like maybe on commercial tour buses
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: and before that the van and everything. So when you
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: could say times were harder, the scene was down, we
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: moved into instead of renting a commercial bus, doing our
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: own bus, and the customization of that lifestyle that lasted,
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: you know, close to a decade, you know, six or
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: eight years of us running buses and living that lifestyle
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: that there's nothing better than like that is.
• 3:53
  Speaker 4: A very highlight of my life for sure.
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: Is the effort put into your own moving quarters where
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: you take your band around on the country and bring
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: your green room and sleeping corridors and rig I mean,
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: you know that, I would almost say that's what kept
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: us going, is the investment in that lifestyle more than
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: just you know, playing shows here or there.
• 4:14
  Speaker 4: When times were you know, leaner, I would say.
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: Right, well, I would imagine that you probably are able
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: to extend your career a little bit more. The farther
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: and more distance you're able to have between you and Toby,
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: right that seems to be a you know, if you
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: guys were still in a van and you were having
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: to like tour with Toby in a van, every would
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: have ended fifteen years ago.
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: Or live in the same city, you know, but we've
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: lived not in the same city for a long time too.
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: But yeah, no, I mean Toby and I have you know,
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: there's something special about Toby and I in that there
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: was a whole period where Devin wasn't in the band,
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: and it was always clear to Toby and I that we,
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: you know, we're pretty good collaborators overall, Like that's a
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: good like, but it is true that we fight the most.
• 4:57
  Speaker 4: But I think that's really at the like. He and
• 4:59
  Speaker 4: I have no no problem fighting and no problem collaborating.
• 5:03
  Speaker 4: We just both of those. They're very connected.
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: I think, yeah, well that's true, that's true friendship, right, Yeah.
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: Who's the who's the stinkiest person you've ever had to
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: be on tour with? Maybe maybe it's a kind of
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: like a more full time member of Emery or maybe
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: it's like one of your kind of like touring members,
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: But who has been the stinkiest person where it's like
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: I want to sleep on the very opposite side of
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: the bus as that person.
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: We had a sound guy one time named Brandt and.
• 5:30
  Speaker 3: He you know, I love that you're using first names.
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: That makes yeah, well under the bus he was cool.
• 5:36
  Speaker 4: He was very cool.
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: He was like a local kid that was younger than
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: us in Seattle, like even in two thousand and two,
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: who was like promoting shows.
• 5:44
  Speaker 4: He's almost like a hippie like kid who was cool.
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: And then he so we knew him, and then we
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: you know, made it and or banned and then later
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: took him on the road as a sound guy and
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: that was his first experience as a sound guy.
• 6:00
  Speaker 4: But he, you know, he it was like I.
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: Don't know if it socks or whatever it was, but
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: it was like the time that comes to mind when
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: you said there was a smell problem on the bus,
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: It was when.
• 6:07
  Speaker 4: He was there and then he went on you know that.
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: I think we were his first time when he was
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: down the road, and I think he went beyond that
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: and was like wound up doing sound at higher and
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: higher levels and.
• 6:16
  Speaker 4: Had a good I think he worked for Portugal, the
• 6:18
  Speaker 4: man probably and just some other stuff, you know.
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: But but but that that was what comes to mind
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: when you say stinky on the bus.
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: And yeah, hopefully as he went higher levels, hopefully he
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: like invested eventure I think to like a good laundry detergent.
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: And yeah, I think ultimately everybody has everybody you know,
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: you uh, you deal with different people at different times
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: on their progression, and they if they're going to continue on,
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: they're going to have to achieve higher and higher levels
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: of social.
• 6:45
  Speaker 4: And professional and skilled you know, stuff to go on.
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: But that is one thing we've seen a lot is
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: people that we've known or worked for they have gone
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: to higher and higher levels and so they are obviously
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: able to figure it out. One of our friends, Trevor
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: has just been that was it was a number one
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: gun and he's gone on to like work for you know,
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: we had at least a couple of people that went
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: on the Death Cab. He went on and worked for
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: Death Cab, and then he went to LC the sound
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: system and some other people, and then he's Eric Clapton
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: stage manager, and last I heard he's working for Taylor
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: Swift on the next Wow, the next Wow.
• 7:16
  Speaker 3: So you know, so's he's just on airplanes all the time,
• 7:19
  Speaker 3: apparently according.
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: To I mean, there's just these people that wind up
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: being in the professional side of it, and they're like,
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: it's the most cool. It's the coolest because they're the
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: actually most successful on a professional you know, cause being
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: a banded it never becomes truly professional, but being a
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: crew or a tech it actually becomes totally professional.
• 7:40
  Speaker 4: You know, like at these really high levels. It's cool
• 7:42
  Speaker 4: to see. You know.
• 7:43
  Speaker 3: So my day job is as a high school teacher,
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: and I mainly teach seniors. And one of the things
• 7:50
  Speaker 3: I ask him, we're coming up towards the end of
• 7:52
  Speaker 3: the year here. One of the things I asked him
• 7:54
  Speaker 3: at the end of the year is would you rather
• 7:56
  Speaker 3: have fame or would you rather have fortune? They think
• 7:58
  Speaker 3: that they always go hand in hand, But that's clearly
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: not true. Obviously, I think you've you've picked one of
• 8:05
  Speaker 3: the two, well or maybe not. What do you think?
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: Well, I think both are terrible fortune, but both both
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: are ruined as far as I'm concerned.
• 8:18
  Speaker 4: I mean.
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: Obviously very minor, and my level of fortune is obviously
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: extremely minor.
• 8:25
  Speaker 4: So I don't even know which one you think I
• 8:26
  Speaker 4: have less of.
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: You're telling us you can go to Whole Foods right
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: now in Seattle and nobody knows who you are.
• 8:32
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, like which one? Literally? Do I mean?
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: I actually probably feel like really fortunate money. The fact
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: that I can make money and do what I do
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: with his little fame feels maybe maybe Actually I don't
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: know which way you're thinking of it, but it's really
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: I couldn't.
• 8:46
  Speaker 4: I don't even know what you mean.
• 8:47
  Speaker 3: Well, I was thinking as a band member, as you
• 8:49
  Speaker 3: were already alluding to that, you're probably making less money
• 8:52
  Speaker 3: than the guy who's touring with Taylor.
• 8:53
  Speaker 4: Swift right, oh way less.
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: But behind the scenes, you know, he's like, no one's
• 8:57
  Speaker 3: gonna recognize that guy.
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: Okay, So in that sense, I have more fame, but
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: it's just, yeah, I don't think of it like I do.
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: I do agree that I have a level of fame
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: like I do have to I do have to agree
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: to that on some level, But I would I would
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: just say that the mindorness of it I do consider
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: to be an asset. Like if it were more, it
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: would not be it was, it would clearly not be better.
• 9:24
  Speaker 4: Like that is very I would. I would probably like.
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: To make more money, and I would definitely make more
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: money and have less fame.
• 9:32
  Speaker 4: I think like that.
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: I don't see any benefit and more fame. Really, I
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: really do see the benefit there, But I, like, you know,
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: try I try to just like what I do, and
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: hopefully neither of those is you know, both of them
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: I ultimately consider toxic.
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: Sure there is something he said about like there's theme
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: and then there's like theme where your face is recognizable. Yeah, right,
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: Like for example, I don't.
• 9:56
  Speaker 3: Know why I'm there, William, let's tackle right.
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: Right, or or like think of like the band weitat
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: would anybody like you could be in the same grocery
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: store right now with that guy and you would have
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: no idea that that's the guy that wrote Teenage Dirtbag
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: right right, and in the same way, like Matt, you probably.
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: I'm sure you have been like in a grocery store
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: or like some public setting, and I guarantee you there
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: is somebody there who has listened to Emory before and
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: they have no idea that it's you because they don't
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: connect your face to that, right right, So that's like
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: a whole other level is where you have fame, where
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: it's connected to your face.
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, I mean it's good to I mean, yeah,
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: to have it connected to your face.
• 10:42
  Speaker 4: I mean, I guess that's cool or something.
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: But the mindset of feeling like you like in the
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: situations where you know you are recognizable, those situations are
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: more artificial feeling. That is, it actually is worse in
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: the long run to be recognizable. I truly believe that,
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: because it alters your ability to interact naturally any environment.
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: You know, So it feels good, It might feel good
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: on some level, but it ultimately I just don't.
• 11:15
  Speaker 4: I do think it's not.
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: Good, Yeah, because everyone then has a motive or they
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: have a different thought process or bias as they're talking
• 11:23
  Speaker 3: to you or they're trying to interact with you, right yeah.
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: And it's not nefarious really, it's just it's just built
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: in you know, like if I'm at it, Like, the
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: most time I've ever felt famous was at when Bad
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: Christian was kind of maybe you would say it's height,
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: and I was at an under Oath show that was big.
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: So I was like at a big under Oath show
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: with two thousand people, but I was just there in
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: the crowd. But I was to that particular audience at
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: that particular time. They found me recognizable because those shows
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: are bigger than Emory shows. So if I'm at an
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: Emory show, of course I get recognized, but I'm literally
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: in the band and it's a smaller show. But this
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: is like two thousand people at a thing, and I'm
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: everywhere I walk people are recognizing me. That I'm more
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: famous at Underall show at that time than I've ever
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: been in the mnership. And so at that moment, that
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: was one of the weirder like times where I was like, oh, like,
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: I'm literally just walking around getting recognized at not my show.
• 12:22
  Speaker 4: So I thought that that.
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: But nonetheless, that's a pretty narrow set of people that
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: were in which you can be recognized.
• 12:27
  Speaker 4: I can walk out in the city and never be
• 12:29
  Speaker 4: recognized at all.
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: You know, this is good words of wisdom because Colin
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: was recently recognized at the last Furnace Fest and so
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: I'm surprised you're not writing notes down Colin to you know,
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: figure out how to handle your your big fame.
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, first time I've ever been recognized anywhere outside
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: of an athletic community. And then Mason. Every everywhere we go,
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: everyone's like, is that Mason Benego asking me. I'm like, yeah,
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: it is, Just go talk to him. He's a nerd.
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: People only recognize me at under shows though, So.
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's yeah.
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: Well, Matt, let's talk about just kind of where you're
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: at right now with Emory. I know you guys are
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: about to go intour. That's why I was like, let's
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: get this in as soon as we can. I'm going
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: to see you guys in like, I think, like a
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: couple weeks or something in Minneapolis. I'm super stoked to
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: jam out see you guys. Actually, here's what's funny. I've
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: been listening to Emory for twenty years now, you know,
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: I've been listening since Walls came out. I still remember
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: seeing you guys on Steel Roots. If you remember Steel Roots, Matt, so,
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: I remember seeing you guys on you know for twenty years.
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: This is technically the first no no, sorry, technically the
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: second Emory show I've ever seen, but I don't know
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: what it is. But like, for whatever reason, I just
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: like missed a lot of your guys' shows. I saw
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: you guys at Furnace Fest and then I've seen Toby
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: and Devin together when they were doing like some acoustic stuff.
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: But that I think is kind of it, Like this
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: might be. I'm pretty sure this is the second Emory
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: related show I've ever seen, So I'm super so to
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: see you guys.
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: Mason, Mason, weren't you there at forest Fest two years ago?
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: That's what I was saying. I think that was the
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: first like frinest Fest I've ever or the first like
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: Emory show I've ever seen.
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: Okay, this is all right, you guys cut out on
• 14:12
  Speaker 3: me for a second, That's what I mean.
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So, yeah, I just haven't seen you guys a lot,
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: so I'm super stoked to see you guys. But yeah,
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: talk a little bit about the tour. What you guys
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: bringing me up to? Yeah, what are some of the
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: shows you're excited about? Yeah, just tell us about the tour.
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: Well, it's a lot of you know, Midwest, which is
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: someone we hadn't been in a while. This is the
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: year with the weeks in twentieth anniversary, this like, we've
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: got to make sure we go as many places as possible.
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: So it just gives the occasion to where some we're
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: going to. We have more total legs of regions that
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: we do. We tour in a mostly regional way where
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: you we'll do two weekends plus a week stringing that
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: together and that'll be ten or fourteen days or something
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: like that, where you go more than across two weekends.
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: And so we've you know, cleared enough people for enough
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: time to where this year we've be able to say
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: yes to more than we have a really long time,
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: which means ultimately we get to go to Des Moines,
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: we get to go to you know, Toledo, We're going
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: to Cleveland. We're going to places that we don't necessarily
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: always get to go every time we're doing a certain
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: show at or album playthrough or whatever. This year is
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: you know, our most shows we've done in a very
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: long time. So you know a lot of it is Midwest,
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: Minneapolis particularly, and it's cool because they're all selling really
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: well at Grand Rapids, and just like places we hadn't been,
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: they're just selling really good because we hadn't been there.
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: So it's like nice to know that you it's not
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: that necessarily people forget about you. It's like you actually
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: can build up demand. It's a good thing when you
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: haven't been to places instead of like when we first started,
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: it was like you try to go to Atlanta three
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: or four times a year just to make sure people
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: don't forget you. And now it's nice that if we're
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: going to go to Grand Rapids, oh good, there's plenty
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: of people there who hadn't seen this in a while.
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: Now the tickets are selling good. So that's this year
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: we get to kind of harvest on a lot of that.
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I wish I could go. I have a wedding
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: to go to unfortunately, so that's that's a bummer for me.
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: But I'm glad you guys are doing that. Are you
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: guys stowing the Greyhound bus?
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: No?
• 16:10
  Speaker 4: The bus?
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: We had wound up having two of them, and we
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: sold them at some point because I mean, it really
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: was like I really feel I'm sincere when I say
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: we were putting our effort and energy into it because
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: it is like you're constantly building, repairing. You know, you're
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: in tune with all the systems of that bus, and
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: it's like your energy really is actually in it.
• 16:34
  Speaker 4: So and then getting it placed.
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: It's just it's a very heavy tax, and it kind
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: of occupied our minds for a lot of period of time.
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: And then around the pandemic Semmer before that, we understood
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: we were kind of getting out of the bus era
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: and being a little differently strategic with how we would
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: do everything. And we sold the two buses and we
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: sold them to a guy in like the hills of
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: Tennessee who his version of things was he has invented
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: a technology that powers off of you know, just water
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: that you can tap into full electricity and things out
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: of it just waterlane hydrogen kind of power broke physics.
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: And he had a bunch of trailers and things out
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: in a compound and somewhere in Tennessee. And our two
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: buses are now part of his compound experiments. So they're
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: parked out there like they don't travel anymore, but he's
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: used them in his compound where his experiment And that
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: was the guy who we sold the buses to for
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: you know, a few thousand dollars.
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: I love it.
• 17:35
  Speaker 4: I love it.
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: That's amazing.
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: And we bought them from a Mennonite family who had
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: nine kids and they sold the buses to get.
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: Dental care for their kids.
• 17:45
  Speaker 4: That's where Idaho.
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I didn't know.
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: The whole scene around buses is like I'm telling you,
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: it's the best.
• 17:51
  Speaker 4: So it's cool.
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: The Mennonites he sold to, were they like more.
• 17:56
  Speaker 4: We bought it from the Mennonite.
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's sorry, That's what I'm going to say.
• 17:59
  Speaker 4: Bye.
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: Were they more hooter rate like or more Amish like
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: or more traditional like?
• 18:05
  Speaker 4: They were, like they were Amish like but a little
• 18:08
  Speaker 4: bit more modern like.
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: They bought the thing so that they could vacation on
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: it and stuff, but they ran.
• 18:12
  Speaker 4: A farm on there.
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: You know, they were pretty small, community based people. But
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: you know, I don't think Amish, not to that level
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: of insular. But nonetheless, you know, they just had like
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: nine kids on a farm and needed to sell that
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: bus because they weren't ever going to turn it into
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: the vacation thing that they thought that they might. Yeah,
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: and that's who we got the bus from and then
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: sold it to the guy who was doing the water
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: energy extraction technology and interesting, he would.
• 18:39
  Speaker 3: They probably use it as their family vehicle. They probably
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: were using it as their family vehicle. I should say
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: I love Mennonite people. We have a lot in very
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: very cool. Yeah they are, Mason, you had a question.
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: Sorry, well, so all right, so we're twenty twenty four
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: and week Send came out in two thousand and four.
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: What is interesting or I'd love to hear kind of
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: like your reflection on kind of those like mid two
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: thousand years knowing that Week's End is twenty years now,
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: which maybe I don't know if you find that hard
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: to believe that it's twenty years old, Like it's it's
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: almost legally able to drink. But I often think about,
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: like all right, between weeks End and the question. At
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: least in my mind, they're not even necessarily my favorite
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: Emory albums, but I would imagine that those are probably
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: like more of the two popular albums, Like if you're
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: gonna do a twentieth anniversary tour, it's out of Emory albums,
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: It's probably gonna be those two albums. But i'd love
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: to hear just from like your own reflections of like
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: what you feel like might be the like when people
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: think back to Emory, what are the album? Like, what's
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: the album that they're like, that's the Emory album, Like,
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: that's the album we should do a twentieth or twenty
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: fifth or whatever anniversary to like is it Week's end?
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: Is it the question? Is it another album? Like I'm
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: just curious kind of what you think.
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: Of or do you do it for all of them?
• 19:57
  Speaker 4: I mean, it's not clear.
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: It's not clear to me to how to disentangle the
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: length of the time you would have a fan base
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: from what it means to be a ten year cycle
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: or a twenty year cycle, and where the genre and
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: terminology of emo itself as a concept or underground in
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: punk music even is in the wider culture. I think
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: all those things are not necessarily predictable, But we just
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: we happen to find ourselves in a generation where bands
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: exist can have existed ten and twenty years where when
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: they started, they there was no thought that they could.
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: There was no thought that any band that's around two
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: thousand and four, the year twenty twenty four wasn't something
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: that could be imagined on any level, Like it wasn't
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: anybody's goal ambition, remote thought that twenty years from that
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: time you could even be known or remembered that. There's
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: no way before there was like internet based stuff. It
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: felt like as soon as there's no more CDs going
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: off the shelf, nobody will know your name within weeks.
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: That is distinctly what it felt like like to be
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: made noise about in a thing that was happening.
• 21:18
  Speaker 4: It felt as temporary as that moment.
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: At the time, you didn't think there were ten year
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: or twenty year anniversaries, and there really kind of wasn't
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: for most bands or anything like that.
• 21:27
  Speaker 4: So the fact that there's bands that had.
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: Content, some continuous and some non continuous activity, but it
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: wasn't It just never was clear that there was a
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: future for any of it.
• 21:37
  Speaker 4: It just wasn't part of the calculation.
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: But it makes sense, but it's not clear that there
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: even will continue to be really, you know, you have
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: to always feel it's.
• 21:48
  Speaker 4: Day to day like just like it is if it resports.
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: It's like you don't really expect you're necessarily going to
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: be around next year.
• 21:56
  Speaker 4: You have to that is the mindset.
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: It feels like you don't necessarily know you're going to
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: be around, Why would you be able to still take
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: its next year at all, but the but for sure
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: the Week's End in question have the most momentum and
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: you know, have the most twenty ten they had power at.
• 22:13
  Speaker 4: Ten years that you could go, oh, holy shit, ten.
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: Years of this, yeah, it somehow means something more than
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: just nothing. And then the twenty year even more and
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: the genres up and all that.
• 22:25
  Speaker 4: But the question, I don't know.
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: I mean, the question did sell more, and you would
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: say at the time was more successful, but just the
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: Week's End, the twenty yearness, the originality of it, and
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: in retrospect the earliness of what it was to where
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: it's it did kind of get to show up relatively
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: early to the whole scene, the Week's End, So I
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: think of that as its one of its most unique
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: things was it was on the actual early side, like
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: we felt like we were late to taking Back Sunday
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: by six months, but in retrospect it just came out
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: at the same time as yeah, right, taking back Sunday's
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: first record, which seemed it didn't seem that way at
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: the time, but now that yeah, it was just like
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: it came out right around the used and taking back
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: Sunday or something like how early. It really was is
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: very cool. So I think that's kind of what is
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: neat about it. There's twenty years already on that.
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and that's what's interesting about like, especially in
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: comparison to the to the question. Is the question obviously, again,
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: like you mentioned, sold more, but I do think kind
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: of in terms of lasting legacy, it does seem and
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: again I could be totally wrong, it does seem that
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: there might be some more lasting legacy two weeks in
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: in comparison to the question. I could be wrong, but
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: like that, that is what Yeah, that's what it seems like.
• 23:48
  Speaker 4: The question sold more and was more successful.
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: But Walls and Ponytail Parades are tracked one and two
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: on our first record, and there are biggest songs and
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: if you play them today, they get the most reaction.
• 24:00
  Speaker 4: I have the most plays on Spotify. So okay, that's
• 24:02
  Speaker 4: fucking it.
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: We just did it immediately, and then nothing ever since
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: is just whatever like that, there's a distinct sense when
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: that in which that might be literally exactly the case,
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: like our first two songs best two and then whatever
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: after that.
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: Right, Well, I mean I think about it, even like
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: you know, obviously you're good friends with the Under Oath guys,
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: and those guys are in a place right now where
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: you know they're about to go on tour with Chasing Safety.
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: And again, like in retrospect, to Find the Great Line
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: sold more copies. It probably is technically their most successful album.
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: But when again, when you think of like lasting legacy,
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: it like it right now, if you were to do
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: like a sales of Chasing Safety reunion tour versus like
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: a Define the Great Line sales of Reunion tour, I
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: actually wouldn't be surprised if Chasing Safety actually ended up
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: selling more because again I think there's a more of
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: a lasting legacy because of how early it came versus
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: the Find the Great Line, which, again, even though it
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: was more successful, I do think maybe Cheating Safety has
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: more of a lasting legacy. And I do think that
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: might be similar for you guys. And again I was
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: just curious kind of how maybe you thought through.
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: And there you know that's more developed than you think
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: in that Like if you ask Ebel, he says the
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: on the question he spent the amount of money he
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: says he's spent to market the question is like insane,
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: but he said the week's end he made incredible profit
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: on because he put nothing into it and it blew
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: up on its own, so.
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: He would he was probably similar in that way too.
• 25:36
  Speaker 4: Yes, that absolutely.
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: It's like it just happened and then got big with
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: no marketing may or anything on its own situation and
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: time and place. And then the follow up records you
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: is a big deal. Everybody knows about it is going
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: off the wind of the first record and it gets
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: all the marketing dollars and the public awareness is high,
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: so it almost doesn't. I mean, obviously matters what your
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: second record is and you have to nail it on
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: some level. But it has a benefit that the first
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: record had to create the momentum. Yeah, so that is true,
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: you know, and that you know everybody, and then that's
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: true with under Oath.
• 26:16
  Speaker 4: That's true with us in that way.
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: But both records seem to deliver as far as that
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: because you can have a flop second record. That's obviously
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: possible too, so you have to it has to be
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: both and I think both of us did a good job.
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: And the other thing I think that really is the
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: thing I like the most about a band like Under
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: Oath is that they, you know, do the work of
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: having to separate yourself and reinvent yourself over time. I
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: think we kind of both share that versus like trying
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: to just sell more live up to a certain expectation.
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: I do you have to respect when bands continue to
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: reinvent and separate themselves from the previous work. I do
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: believe that is the overall but for better or worse,
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: I do think that is the better path.
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: Sure well from someone from your perspective, and I don't
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: think this applies to Emery, So I think you're I
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: think you're in the clear. But I'm curious what you
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: think being on the inside when you see bands that
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: all of a sudden, after a number of years, number
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: of records that maybe didn't sell quite as well as
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: they should have, where all of a sudden the label
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: maybe picks them up for the first time, and a
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: new label picks them up, let's say, and they just
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: start pushing the living shit out of the record. You know,
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: a huge marketing ploy ten music videos. You're they're they're
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: trying to plaster it in front as many faces as
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: possible every single social media site. Do you think that
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: there is merit to that where they try to recapture
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: that that magic of something that happened maybe ten years
• 27:56
  Speaker 3: ago with their first record, when things were just different.
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: Well, you sound like you're asking me, and I'll give
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: you the obnoxious answer, maybe that you want that marketing stupid.
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, that's basically what I'm asking.
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: Marketing is stupid. It just like something about marketing is
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: inherently stupid.
• 28:20
  Speaker 4: I don't know.
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: And it's like I feel like it's almost more clear
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: now that like marketing and press and those things are manufactured,
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: but they do work or have worked, But most people
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: don't want something that they feel was marketed to them.
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: They never did want it. They never it's never been better.
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: It just can be effective at certain times in places,
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: but you're not trying to respond to marketing as a
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: consumer or fan or enthusiast or follower of or participant
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: in a scene. You're not wanting to respond to marketing. Yeah,
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: you know what I mean. So it's like, if you
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: have good marketing, it feels good and you would say
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: you'd want it as a business owner or a brand
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: or whatever. But on the artistic level, marketing achievements don't
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: mean as much as some other organic achievement.
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: They kind of a cred killer is what you're saying.
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's not my favorite term, the cred because
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: it becomes gatekeeper, it becomes its own like.
• 29:29
  Speaker 4: You know, cred is its own weird objective to say. Yeah, yeah,
• 29:34
  Speaker 4: so once.
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: You name, I believe in the saying that would say,
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: want something is a good something, that's a good measurement.
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: Once it becomes a metrics a bad measurement after that.
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: I think that's true with cred or record sales or
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: whatever you can measure as since you're trying to index
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: that now as Spotify monthly whatever, so like.
• 29:53
  Speaker 4: That's what you go by because that's what you go by.
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: But then there's the people going directly after that target
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: and it's less organic, so that that whole thing, that
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: whole terrain, I really do think is like what you
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: measure yourself by.
• 30:06
  Speaker 4: Only that's what I'm saying after twenty years.
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, whatever the thing is you're chasing constantly shifts and
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: doesn't matter.
• 30:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, So how do you how do you guys do that?
• 30:16
  Speaker 3: Being mostly di y, I mean I would say, I mean,
• 30:19
  Speaker 3: you guys do a lot of like your own marketing,
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: and if your marketing is kind of just like just
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: cool shit that that fans want to see. Like like
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: when you guys did the big live stream of the
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: whole album, that was cool as hell. That's the kind
• 30:33
  Speaker 3: of stuff that I think the scene in general wants
• 30:35
  Speaker 3: to see. How do you view you know, pushing a
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: record or pushing a tour or something like that, especially
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: with the mentality that you just explained.
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: Well, I would another way I would say it is
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: that it is relatively low self esteem. Like you have
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: to have a certain esteem of yourself to be marketed
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: and like step in like act.
• 30:55
  Speaker 4: Yeah, at a higher level.
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: But so to the drive is more to create something
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: unique enough.
• 31:04
  Speaker 4: That it can get talked about or whatever.
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: Like it's not that all the stuff we did during
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: the pandemic or those streams or anything is what anybody
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: necessarily wanted.
• 31:15
  Speaker 4: It's just what we thought we could do.
• 31:18
  Speaker 3: It was awesome.
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, But but it's you know, it's just it's a way.
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: It's it sounds sad the way I'm saying it, but
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: you have to have a way to keep going with
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: something that you're wanting to do, even if it's custom
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: as a tour bus for yourself. Yeah, and when you
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: see the opportunity to do a stream different, or do
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: a show different, or try acoustic shows those Each of
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: those challenges is a way of trying to do something
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: new for you so that your engagement with what Emory, like,
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: my engagement with Emery is constantly changing. It's you know,
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: so it reinvents itself and I just am participating with
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: it for it's whatever it is. But I have to
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: be engaged with it sure that I have to want
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: to be excited or enjoy it. And that's slightly different
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: than just calculating what will.
• 32:16
  Speaker 4: Succeed or if you get money or if you think so.
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: I think we feel a little bit freer than other
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: bands to try new things podcasting, just we're just a
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: little less. My criticism of musicians is that they're.
• 32:30
  Speaker 4: Too precious and take themselves seriously and need to be
• 32:34
  Speaker 4: safe and stuff like that's we look stupid and do
• 32:37
  Speaker 4: more stupid things. But that's for us. Yeah, that's the
• 32:41
  Speaker 4: way I that's the way I describe it.
• 32:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah, No, I think that's an interesting take. And I
• 32:44
  Speaker 3: think that there's a lot of bands, especially in that
• 32:48
  Speaker 3: the kind of meager years of you know, the the
• 32:51
  Speaker 3: mid twenty tens, early twenty tens, where a lot of
• 32:54
  Speaker 3: bands were looking at you guys being like, I wish
• 32:58
  Speaker 3: I had that kind of freedom, but they they had it,
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: they just weren't willing to, you know, seas on it.
• 33:03
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: Like so one way to say, if you want to
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: drill in further is like when Amberlin hung up their skates.
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah you know that, and I love I love Amberlin,
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: but you could say there's a and they've been more
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: successful than us, so good, But when they hung it up,
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: you know, they had this mentality.
• 33:24
  Speaker 4: There was a distinct philosophical.
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: Difference in where we were both coming from at the time,
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: and theirs was like, we want to go out on top,
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: like we've accomplished all this and we're gonna the time
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: is over and we're going to go out on a
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: high note and this that whatever. And for us it
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: was like it, I don't even know what you're talking about.
• 33:44
  Speaker 4: Why would I stop doing what we like? What we
• 33:47
  Speaker 4: do that we like to do.
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: I don't care if it looks stupid or good or
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: like is the I mean, we.
• 33:53
  Speaker 4: Just like it, you know what I mean?
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: Like, so we've done a lot of dumb stuff, but
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: it's only for us that it primarily is something that
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: we do.
• 34:03
  Speaker 4: It might sound stupid.
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: I'm just saying Devin and Toby and I and even
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: the guys that we started with before that.
• 34:09
  Speaker 4: We were in college in two thousand and.
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: Ninety eight, ninety nine, goofing off, like doing crazy ideas together.
• 34:19
  Speaker 4: Long before Emory existed. We were doing weird stuff.
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: We were just doing stuff together as friends, and then
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: one of our ideas was emory. So it just isn't
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: something we've ever been interested in. Not doing better or
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: worse look silly or not up or down. I mean,
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: it's for us to do. It's not for how it
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: looks out there.
• 34:43
  Speaker 4: Who what anybody thinks.
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: Really, it's like it's funny to us that we still
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: have stuff to do. This was just we've been friends
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: since I mean Devin and I were. Devon was on
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: my tea ball team. That was thirty five years ago,
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: thirty six seven years ago.
• 35:03
  Speaker 4: I mean, Devon was on my t ball team. He's
• 35:05
  Speaker 4: a short stop and was in second grade.
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: Was he even any good He's the best.
• 35:12
  Speaker 4: Player on the team. I was not. Of course, he
• 35:15
  Speaker 4: was the best player on the team. I'm in second grade.
• 35:17
  Speaker 4: He's the Shortstop's like, wow, that guy's awesome.
• 35:20
  Speaker 3: He's Golden Blacke.
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I do love the fact that, you know,
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: like Emory does feel like especially out of the like
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: music scene that you guys were in or have been
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: associated with, it does feel like Emory just sort of
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: is a little different in the sense of, like, who
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: thinks that they could have like three part harmonies with
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: like literally like emo slash scremo music, Like who even
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: has the idea that that would even be something that
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: would be worthwhile to listen to, And yet you guys
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: figured it out and it sounds great, and you basically
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: have been able to like make a twenty plus year
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: career doing just that, And it's like, who would ever
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: even think that that is even a possibility that kind
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: of like at her new music.
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: No, yeah, Like it wasn't something that was when we
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: started doing it. It was unliked, it was unpopular, It
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: was disliked by those and I think that that actually
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: is important. But we were in South Carolina found this
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: kind of music, and we're like, that is so awesome
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: that you can have the freedom to scream or like
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: push the boundaries to do weird, do all this weird
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: stuff that didn't.
• 36:28
  Speaker 4: On the radio because we didn't even know until we
• 36:30
  Speaker 4: were in college. We discovered this like indie thing.
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: Like whoa the freedom and that is so crazy, and
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: we started doing it, and our girlfriends and our families
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: they're like, us, so horrible. They thought it was so
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: horrible that we would do stuff like that and it
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: sounded like that and we would use our voices like
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: that and we're like, no, it's totally awesome, and them
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: not liking it, not getting it. You know, it's just
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: something about that it's important. Like they it wasn't they
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: didn't like it. It wasn't We wasn't known that in
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: a few years, fourteen year old girls will like screaming.
• 37:05
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it wasn't understood. It was not. That wasn't the
• 37:07
  Speaker 4: point of view.
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: It was this is what they hate, This is what
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: they don't like.
• 37:13
  Speaker 4: Is what it felt like to us.
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: But we like, you know, it was an avant garde
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: kind of situation for us, given where we were.
• 37:21
  Speaker 4: And then we moved to Seattle and.
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: Found more and more people that kind of got that counterculture.
• 37:26
  Speaker 4: It was supposed to be obnoxious.
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's add obnoxious nonsense, like it's dramatic, it's
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: we're just trying to do things that are absurd beyond
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: that was what it That's where it comes from. It's
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: what it is. It's absurd feeling. So we're trying to
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: pull off weird, crazy stuff and then it becomes somehow
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: becomes popular.
• 37:48
  Speaker 4: You know.
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: That was that's how it formed for us. So we're
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: trying to subvert expectations. That's very fundamental.
• 37:56
  Speaker 3: Sure, the fact that they hated it, did that tell
• 37:59
  Speaker 3: you that you were kind of more on the right
• 38:00
  Speaker 3: track than you think.
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I'm sure it's like, I'm sure that's
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: where it comes from, Like you fuck you, dad, I'm
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: sure it's something like that.
• 38:08
  Speaker 4: I don't know, Yeah, get.
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: It, that's why we do it. That's probably it. It's
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: probably not much more complicated than that.
• 38:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I always love that that psychological perspective of it,
• 38:20
  Speaker 3: because that really is just like the tried and true,
• 38:24
  Speaker 3: timeless perspective of someone in their late adolescens.
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's just expressing. I mean it that it
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: maybe it's actually that simple. It's just you're expressing anger
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: in a contrary way and then trying to figure out
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: how to make that work or something. It's like, I mean,
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: it's maybe it's that simple. It may be the whole
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: thing's kind of that simple because the music is obnoxious.
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: Let's be honest, Like all of the whole scene is
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: like and hardcore. It's I'm older now, I'm just it's
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: just more clear.
• 38:57
  Speaker 4: But it is obnoxious on perus. That is the point.
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: And then other people like it and you start going, Oh,
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: so you're like saying, I'm gonna do this harsh thing
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: and see if I can make people say they like it.
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: It's such a game, you know, so if it makes
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: us laugh or it's extreme, or if it's crazy, like
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: when we made walls go halftime, Yeah, that was a
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: joke of an idea.
• 39:20
  Speaker 4: But it was right somehow.
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: It was like, but what if we slowed down even
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: more and it was like halftime because we weren't playing
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: that part in the halftime anyway, we just play in
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: the end.
• 39:30
  Speaker 4: It was dumb.
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: And then it's like, what if we do something hilarious
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: and the first time we play it we laugh, like
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: fall on the floor laughing, that's hilarious.
• 39:37
  Speaker 4: But it's the right It was the right thing.
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: Honestly. This really reminds me of when we've talked to
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: Josh Porter about like Showbread music, and it's like this
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: is literally the same mentality that they had when it
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: came to Showbred, Like this is just what we like
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: and also part of it is hilarious to us and like,
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: let me, it's reactionary.
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: So I'm saying I like it, but it's also designed
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: to fuck people or something like.
• 40:01
  Speaker 4: Yes, a combination.
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: That's exactly where Josh Porter seems to at least the
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: way that he thinks about Show Bred that is that
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: seems to be a common thread between both of your
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: as his bands.
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we could have been we could have done Jackass
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: if we'd have thought about it, that would have felt similar,
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: do you know what I mean? Like we were doing
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: stuff pranks with if we could get a camera, we
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: would be doing pranks or we do a it's obnoxious,
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: We're I get you know, we're just misfits at school.
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: It's class clown add energy express fully or something.
• 40:32
  Speaker 4: But real the EMO is real. I mean it's real,
• 40:35
  Speaker 4: Like it's that.
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: It's that when you know when we heard emo is
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: a thing, it's like wait a minute, it's like express
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: an emotion.
• 40:43
  Speaker 4: And you're like, yeah, what else is music than that?
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: So it's like whatever that is it's it's also genuine,
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: so it's not just a joke, but it's definitely partly
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: a joke.
• 40:55
  Speaker 4: Mm hmm.
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: Well, I'm glad. Uh, I'm glad. What it was maybe
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: potentially a joke or half of a joke, partly a joke,
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: partly a joke has turned into part very sincere. Yeah,
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: part partly a joke, partly sincere, but it's turned into
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: twenty years of music that has been so important for
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: Colin and I and so I'm just really grateful for
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: that and the fact that you guys still like kind
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: of go back and it's like, all right, that album
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: even though that was twenty years ago and you're entirely
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: different human beings. You're twice as old as you when
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: you first made Weeks In, and you're like, that's still
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: an important thing for us to connect to, and clearly
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: there are a lot of people in the world that
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: still connect to it, and you're wanting to celebrate it.
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: And I'm super stoked to again see you guys in
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: a couple of weeks, to see you celebrate an album
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: that has been a lot to me, a lot to
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: you guys, and a lot to a lot of other people.
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's I mean, musically odd to think that that's
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: my whole year musically is still from you know what
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's the whole is stuff from twenty years ago,
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: and I'll play it sixty five times this year music, right,
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: But it's cool, like then you try to make it
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: different every night, and it is fun. I mean it's
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: it's definitely an honor and fun and challenging.
• 42:15
  Speaker 4: I mean it is all those things.
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: But you know, it's like the songs are so known
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: the way that it actually feels and practicality is like
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: to show up and try to because you know, the
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: music and the recordings mean so much to people, Like
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: the literal songs, which are an abstract quality of song
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: has and it's recording the embodiment of that song. I'm
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: not actually required for that for like they exist and
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: I have.
• 42:45
  Speaker 4: To try to.
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: We have to try to show up and compete with
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: the concept and recording of the song. You have to,
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: you feel like you have to, Like it feels like
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: a direct competition from that thing we did twenty years ago,
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: and can we deliver that or exceed that?
• 43:01
  Speaker 4: If not, what then that feels bad?
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: That feels you can see how that feels bad because
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: it's almost you're in competition with the recording as the
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: twenty years later, I got to go out there and
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: figure out how to Otherwise you could stay home with
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: a recording five week can't are.
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: You better than twenty three year old Matt? Is? Basically
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: it's not that.
• 43:21
  Speaker 4: I mean yet you do feel that sense about it
• 43:23
  Speaker 4: a little.
• 43:24
  Speaker 3: Bit, you know? That is something I've always been curious
• 43:26
  Speaker 3: about it, especially from a guitarist perspective, is do you
• 43:31
  Speaker 3: I think guitars kind of go through like different rigs, right,
• 43:33
  Speaker 3: they want to change up, you know, how their sound
• 43:36
  Speaker 3: is a little bit, especially record to record or recording
• 43:39
  Speaker 3: to recording. When you're going back and looking at what, Yo, Matt,
• 43:45
  Speaker 3: you were in two thousand and three, two thousand and
• 43:47
  Speaker 3: four writing this music. Do you want to continue to
• 43:52
  Speaker 3: kind of replicate that sound or do you want to
• 43:53
  Speaker 3: just bring your modern sound and play that older stuff.
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: I think there's an inverse relationship with the creating special
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: stuff that you.
• 44:05
  Speaker 4: When you're younger.
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: It I mean, I think I actually I'm finding it
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: hard to wrestle with this, and as far as I know,
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: anybody that's being honest is struggling in such that Let's
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: just say.
• 44:19
  Speaker 4: You're a Yellow Card, you made more money last year
• 44:22
  Speaker 4: than you ever dreamed was Yeah.
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: Ever dream was possible. If you're a Yellow Card or
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: Jimmy World last year, sure you know we'll make more
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: money this year than any other year.
• 44:33
  Speaker 4: That's amazing. I'm so glad the.
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: Value was there, that was created and whatever it is.
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: But you know that whether or not you make new music,
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: it's not going to probably matter at all. And that's
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: the thing that you did think your value was based on,
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: as your ability to like create music, because when you're
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: doing these bands and you're talking to people that are
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: only saying, like if you talk to an old person
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: or somebody that's not in the scene and you tell
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: them you're in a band, they.
• 45:04
  Speaker 4: Go, you write your own songs?
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: It's like, how can you write songs that people care about?
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: Want that value? There's nothing like that. But can you
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: do Ocean Avenue or walls? Maybe only when you're young
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: and stupid and you're maybe not even that good of
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: a player, and maybe you have no fucking idea about
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: gear and you can't hardly tune your guitar, but somehow
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: you got that song. And then so it's not even
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: close to in question now that I actually understand music
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: and performance and my guitar tone and my voice as
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: a guitar, like all those things a thousand times better.
• 45:43
  Speaker 4: But nothing.
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: I don't know if we can do anything of relevance
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: if we've tried, because and I don't know if that's
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: because we can't or because nobody cares.
• 45:51
  Speaker 4: I don't really know.
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: But and that's I mean, I'm saying that overly dramatic,
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: and anything's possible, But that tension is built into when
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: you're younger somehow, when you're nineteen, you just something. It's
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: more you have an access to a certain thing, and
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: then as a mature player, you have a lot of
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: confidence in other things. Yeah, so they're imbalance, but they're
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: also intention So it's like the.
• 46:13
  Speaker 3: One area where the Dunning Kruger effect actually benefits you.
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: Absolutely that you said that exactly right, That's exactly right.
• 46:21
  Speaker 4: There's no doubt about that.
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: When you are nineteen and your ego is high and
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: your everything is just whatever, you're just you're doing something
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: so crazy. You have a gear maybe or an act.
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: I don't know exactly what it is, and it's not.
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: I mean it's possible, but even if you think about
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: people that become pro songwriters like Jack Antonov or whatever,
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: it's still not I don't know if it's the same thing.
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: Like once you get to be a pro at songwriting,
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: that's still different than your nineteen year old songwriting. Yeah,
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: Like it's a one time shot on some level that
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: you have to express your youth at.
• 46:56
  Speaker 4: Its maybe, I mean it's not. Athletes have that, yeah, weird,
• 47:01
  Speaker 4: absolutely true.
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So there's a certain time athletically where there's most
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: your general prime.
• 47:07
  Speaker 4: So I think songwriters have that too.
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: Or you've become a pro in some way that you know,
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: but that's something still different about that pro thing than
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: it is about the Yeah.
• 47:17
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 47:18
  Speaker 3: The people that are that are you know, sitting together
• 47:20
  Speaker 3: in Nashville writing you know, twenty five number one country
• 47:23
  Speaker 3: hits a year. They've they've got that's like a dark art.
• 47:26
  Speaker 3: You know, they've got something else figured out. They've sold
• 47:28
  Speaker 3: their soul to the devil.
• 47:29
  Speaker 4: I think, ye something that's a little something's wrong with that.
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: That's what makes like someone like Johnny Cash in particular
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: so amazing. It's like he had what like he had
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: a number one hit in like five different decades or something,
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: and not to say he like exclusively wrote every single
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: song throughout every one of those decades. Maybe he did,
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: I don't know, but it is to say, like this
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: guy was a part of the creation of a song
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: for fifty, maybe even sixty years that captured the imagination
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: of people in different generations and like that, like there's
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: very few people who have been able to do that.
• 48:05
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's incredibly Yeah, no doubt about it.
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: But I think your question actually natively was about guitar playing,
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: and if I'm going to loop back on that, like
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: the thing that becomes a value over time is that
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: I feel that, like if I'm playing guitar, it's more
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: clear today when I play guitar that it sounds like
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: it's my style. And so like the way that I
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: play guitar seems to shine more over time, and the
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: gear obviously less and so there's like a gear minimalism
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: that I would have now when early on I would
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: have had an insecurities, I would have been have more
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: insecurities and wanted more or bigger or more special gear.
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: And now I feel that the least impressive, the more simplistic,
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: my gear can be and I can still retaining my expressiveness.
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: That that's more of like what I would go am
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: going for as a guitarist.
• 49:06
  Speaker 4: Right, because that is a higher payoff.
• 49:08
  Speaker 3: Because then it's the chops that are coming through. Right.
• 49:10
  Speaker 3: It's it's like I can make this tone or I
• 49:12
  Speaker 3: can I can make these uh these phrasings sound really
• 49:16
  Speaker 3: really good without all of the fancy doo dads, right,
• 49:20
  Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, whatever I play guitar, I have to
• 49:22
  Speaker 3: cover it up with as much reverb as possible because
• 49:24
  Speaker 3: I suck.
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like I want it to sound like my
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: fingers more than the gear. Is Like I can feel
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: that being true because I just have more confidence in
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: my whatever, my vibe broad Like you know those guitars
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: were it's in tune no matter if it's not in tune.
• 49:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I know exactly what you're talking about. I
• 49:42
  Speaker 3: have no idea what is it the are you talking about?
• 49:45
  Speaker 3: The actual guitar, Like.
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: The tuning machines that you can put on the thing
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: and they go by tension so you like you, they
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: tune themselves in real time mechanically so they can't be
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: out of tune.
• 49:56
  Speaker 3: They're weird.
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: You set the threshold and you can't, like you can't
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: even bend the string. Yeah, Like, well, no matter what
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: you play, it sounds perfect because they'd just attention to
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: be in tune.
• 50:05
  Speaker 4: And I don't like that.
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: Like that's like I'm trying to bend those strings as
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: much as I can to get to sound to be noticeable,
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: is what I'm doing with the strings?
• 50:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I played one one time. I can't remember
• 50:20
  Speaker 3: the name of it what you're talking about, but it's
• 50:23
  Speaker 3: it felt like I was playing like a mini keyboard
• 50:27
  Speaker 3: right and without look like the little little nodule that
• 50:30
  Speaker 3: you can flick around.
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I'm like wiggling and pulling on the
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: strings on. It's just to try to make you know,
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: I'm trying to get character to come out of it.
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: That's like let imperfection like a milk in the imperfection
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: or the in betweenness of things in some way, Like
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: that's what is on my mind musically. It is like
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: pushing a boundary or doing a bend, or like making
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: it weird or getting noticed. I mean, it's all I
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: think that maybe that's always what it is, is like
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: the getting like if you're watching Emery, you're seeing Josh
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: do this and Devin saying and he'll be saying, I'm like,
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: we're all trying to get attention, and Dave's doing It's
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: like it's not the most like you hear five, four
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: to six people trying to be the center of attention
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: at once. Yeah, that's not really advisable, but that is
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: kind of.
• 51:24
  Speaker 4: That. I do think that that when I look at it,
• 51:26
  Speaker 4: that is part of what we're doing.
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: It's just everybody trying to get some attention and do
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: things that stand out not be perfect.
• 51:36
  Speaker 3: I love that aspect though. I mean, that's that's true
• 51:39
  Speaker 3: musicianship in my opinion.
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: Well it's I mean, it's not necessarily it can be
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: very of not it can be not clear like what
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: you're supposed to be listening.
• 51:48
  Speaker 3: If you can, if you can make it sound good,
• 51:51
  Speaker 3: that means that means you're a true musician. I mean
• 51:53
  Speaker 3: The Who is a great example of that, right. The
• 51:55
  Speaker 3: Who is four players that all wanted all the attention.
• 51:57
  Speaker 4: All the time, and yeah, yeah, and.
• 52:01
  Speaker 3: There's no reason that they should have been able to
• 52:03
  Speaker 3: gel together.
• 52:04
  Speaker 4: You guys are that's part of the way it feels.
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: I would say, that's that's kind of how it feels
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: like yeah, it's attention, but it's it's not competitive.
• 52:11
  Speaker 4: It's not that competitive.
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: It's just like there's something about Toby that is deferential
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: of focus and power. He doesn't really he'd be happy
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: if we if he could get less attention. He'd be
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: happy if he could just blend in the background. But
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: he can't help it, but get attention to you know,
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: but it's not he just he It could be true
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: that he commanded more attention and we were more built
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: around him than he really actually.
• 52:39
  Speaker 4: Wants it to be.
• 52:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, or maybe even thought, yeah, yeah, all right, let's
• 52:46
  Speaker 3: let's get in the top five most guilty pleasure artists
• 52:50
  Speaker 3: of Matt Carter.
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: Okay, okay, I don't think I have five in my mind,
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: but they will come as I go. I'll just start
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: with where I start because I know my number one
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: answer right away.
• 53:02
  Speaker 4: This is so obviously sound.
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: First of all, guilty pleasure sometimes means that people are
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: just I mean, what's the guilt part.
• 53:10
  Speaker 5: The guilty The guilty part is like, ah, yeah, you're
• 53:14
  Speaker 5: not saying you like them like I shouldn't like them
• 53:17
  Speaker 5: based off of especially the senior in you know, your
• 53:20
  Speaker 5: friends would generally make fun of you about it.
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I tend to still want to make the
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: arguments that the things that I feel guilty that other
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: people might feel guilty about, there's more profoundness there.
• 53:31
  Speaker 4: But my first one is Kesha.
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: You just have to understand that there's depth there that's
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: more than just a guilty thing.
• 53:38
  Speaker 4: I really believe that.
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: But you know, I think Kesha is very awesome and
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: her she has an album that came out a couple
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: of years ago, a year and a half ago or something,
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: after her long yeah, I guess Ordeals, she's been through
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: with everything or whatever, and it's just, my gosh, it's introspective,
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: it's kind of psychedelic, it's acoustic, it's not there's only
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: once on this kind of a dance song on it,
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: and it's just I mean, it is so awesome. I mean,
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: I just really really like it. But to say I've
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: always been a fan of her, you know, big songs
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: or whatever too.
• 54:12
  Speaker 4: But her last album, I just find it deep.
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: So if that can counts a guilty pleasure, I have
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: always been and am Akesha fan and very legitimately on
• 54:21
  Speaker 2: her last record.
• 54:22
  Speaker 3: That is a perfect answer. And I think that might
• 54:24
  Speaker 3: actually be the most commonly answered guilty pleasure.
• 54:29
  Speaker 4: Oh people, other people got that. People I knew about
• 54:32
  Speaker 4: her last album. I didn't think anybody got it. Yeah,
• 54:35
  Speaker 4: I knew about it.
• 54:36
  Speaker 3: I think people people in this sceness, especially good, seem
• 54:40
  Speaker 3: to have a liking to her. So that means all
• 54:43
  Speaker 3: the guilty pleasure fans need to get together and it
• 54:46
  Speaker 3: won't be so guilty anymore.
• 54:48
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: No, And again I'm just saying I think it's actually
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: real quality in there and everything.
• 54:53
  Speaker 4: But yeah, another one that is I guess guilty. Yeah.
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: Well, I I am very unable to not be in
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: love with Casey Musgraves and her music. Also, so Casey
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: and Kesha for what, Maybe it's just I don't know
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: what it is, but they just land in the spot
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: for me where it's very hard for me not to be.
• 55:17
  Speaker 4: Overtaken by what they do. It just resonates with me.
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: But Casey, almost all of her stuff, maybe early on
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: it was more country and I like that less, but
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: where she has gone and taken her career, I'm just
• 55:32
  Speaker 2: super on board with it and the producers that work
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: with her and the way it's arranged and her you know,
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: I resonate with her just on some level. I did
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: a talent show with my kindergarten daughter and we did
• 55:43
  Speaker 2: Rainbow by Casey Musgraves. I played the piano, she sang
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: it as a kindergartener, and.
• 55:48
  Speaker 4: It was like the best musical experience.
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'm crying so immediate, Like doing that was
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: christ City for me, like most satisfying musical moment in
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: my life.
• 55:59
  Speaker 3: I love that. That's so cool.
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Casey feels like one of those artists that, like
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: in terms of that like kind of pop world, like
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: whatever you want to describe, like the scene that she's in,
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: like she can't do any wrong, Like she just seems
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: like such an like innocent person that can like anything
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: that she's ever gonna release is gonna be beloved by
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: the people that she's in, yeah, you know, or the
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: scene that she's in, because yeah, she's just like like
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: she she's so innocent and like great at what she does,
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: and yeah she's.
• 56:31
  Speaker 2: I mean there's like the level on which she's just
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: being a persona that for whatever reason, I just fall
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: into on the simplest level. And I feel that her
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: musical choices, who she surrounds herself, her song selection or
• 56:43
  Speaker 2: production that I mean, it just checks out all the
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: way through, you know, for me, but not that I
• 56:49
  Speaker 2: would have predicted that.
• 56:50
  Speaker 4: Just I find that to be true.
• 56:52
  Speaker 2: Then if I'm going from there, it's like I'm drawn
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: into the music of that my kids resonate with because
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: I think that's a pretty good definition of guilty pleasure.
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: It's like what they're finding and doing that. Then I
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: find myself really liking and.
• 57:09
  Speaker 4: Appreciating that they have a fresh take on stuff.
• 57:11
  Speaker 2: But I mean, and this is a very simple one,
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: but Olivia Rodrigo is it's beyond.
• 57:17
  Speaker 4: Criticism to me, and I feel a sense of.
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: Real I feel a real sense of connection when my
• 57:25
  Speaker 2: daughters are liking it that they're liking stuff that I
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: recognize as stuff I like filtered through another generation and
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: co writers and things that you know, I hear what
• 57:36
  Speaker 2: she's copying in the songs.
• 57:37
  Speaker 4: It's very clear to me who this this song is.
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: I can hear the reference tracks that they were channeling
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: to write this song that song. I mean, yeah, it's
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: easy for me to on some level criticize, but I
• 57:50
  Speaker 2: don't criticize. I am feel it's like honoring, like the
• 57:54
  Speaker 2: type of alternativeness of what she pulls from and does.
• 57:59
  Speaker 2: I can hear it almost directly. I could just make
• 58:01
  Speaker 2: a list of what I think she's actually copying and
• 58:03
  Speaker 2: where it comes from. But it's I find it faithful
• 58:07
  Speaker 2: and good and very pleasing to you know, listen to,
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: and then they resonate to on my kids same level.
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: So it's like I know about paramore now, right, is
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: basically what you're seeing?
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you know, I mean it's you know,
• 58:19
  Speaker 2: I think you know, she paid Kate.
• 58:22
  Speaker 4: Olivia paid Haley a bunch of money for sounding like her.
• 58:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know what I mean, Like she gave her
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: songwriting credit or in some ways.
• 58:32
  Speaker 6: On yeah, retroactively, right, And she's retroactively and not because
• 58:37
  Speaker 6: the closest song it is because it's like it's obviously
• 58:40
  Speaker 6: paramore vibes for this song by this modern person, and
• 58:44
  Speaker 6: it's just like, yeah, of course pay her.
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: But I think Hayley's made more money on that than she,
• 58:49
  Speaker 2: you know, yeah, off of this gift from Olivia, who's
• 58:52
  Speaker 2: clearly it's so if they got all that worked out, good,
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: Like I consider all that good versus lawsuits, and she's
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: it's obviously is that re channeled and good good because Haley.
• 59:03
  Speaker 4: Got it from somewhere.
• 59:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so you know the but we're all on the
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: thin edge sometimes of where you hear recycles of stuff.
• 59:12
  Speaker 4: But that's okay. I just don't think that's bad.
• 59:14
  Speaker 2: I just think it is overall good because it seems
• 59:17
  Speaker 2: like you're crossing the same emotional feelings across generations. So
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: it seems like you're amplifying these important emotions across generations.
• 59:26
  Speaker 4: To me, I love it.
• 59:27
  Speaker 3: Imitation is the highest four of flattery, right, So yeah,
• 59:31
  Speaker 3: every artist does it, right, that's.
• 59:33
  Speaker 4: Three of them.
• 59:34
  Speaker 2: Okay, So if I had to go, what else do
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: my kids lie? You know, I've always I mean I
• 59:41
  Speaker 2: think that all my kids and I and wife are
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: all always bobbing to Katy Perry anytime. That that's been
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: very cross generational for us, you know, and Katie has
• 59:50
  Speaker 2: ties all the way back.
• 59:52
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 59:52
  Speaker 3: Well, that's interesting. That's one that has changed in my
• 59:55
  Speaker 3: opinion too, because all my students love Katy Perry and
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 3: and I have Like back in the day, I was
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 3: a big hater, right, but now I'm like kind of
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 3: coming around to it. I'm like, yeah, that's actually pretty good. Yeah. Yeah,
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 3: there's good beats, there's good lines, there's good melodies. It's
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 3: it's just good all around.
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 2: It's a really good and you know, I mean her
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: like and I wonder because I believe about music that
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: it has these resonant qualities with people where you're resonating
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 2: with people on a level and then the music. I
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 2: just really think that people that like the same music
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 2: actually share something. Yeah, I don't know what it is,
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 2: but it's deeper than simple preference. So you know, Katie
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: Perry is related to the Christian scene, Katie Hudson and
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 2: some of the same emotive worship background, higher transition. I mean,
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 2: I really think there's stuff that certain people don't like,
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 2: certain the same music as me at all, and that's fine,
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 2: but there's certain people and she has in the mainstream way,
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 2: I feel like we have us shared somehow background or
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: whatever in what she does, you know. And also one
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 2: time I was at do you remember when they had
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 2: that bar in New York that Fallout boy and Travis
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: from Gym Class Heroes and some of the people owned
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: no New York this so there was like at least
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 2: I think Midtown anyway, So they owned a bar together
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 2: in New York and I was friends been friends with
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 2: Travis from Gym Class, who.
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 4: Was one of the owners of that bar.
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 2: And so one time, me and my sister and my
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 2: wife are in New York and we went and hung
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 2: out with Travis at his bar in Manhattan, and he
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 2: was dating Katy Perry at the time, so it was
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 2: like we went and he put us as VP roped
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: off table. So there's like, actually one time when I'm
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 2: sitting at a bar in New York with my wife
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: and Katy Perry and Travis from gym class, and it
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 2: was like this weird night, like he and Katy Perry
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: in a fight and they were not talking.
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 4: I'm super awkward and terrible, but they came, we came.
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 4: It was whatever. Thought that was a really weird situation.
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 2: But you know, hung out with her at Travis's bar
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 2: one time in Manhattan and everything, and you know, just
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 2: that all that's connected is funny stuff.
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 3: Wow, man, I want to know more about those vis tis.
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, way back to Yeah, it's like, you know, she's
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 2: part of she She's I'm just saying all those points
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 2: to the fact that the musical residence actually is there.
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 4: I think, yeah, with that all that stuff, that's very true.
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 3: I think you're absolutely right there. The fabric of the
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 3: social or the musical lineage is there at the right.
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 1: All right, And Katy Perry knows who Amy Grant is,
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 1: Let's put it that way.
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 3: That's true.
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 4: Yeah, she knows, she knows a lot of who a
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 4: lot of people are.
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: I think you got one more right, one more?
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 2: Okay, that's for Okay. Let me see if I can
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 2: get another one coming. Okay, Let's see if I can
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: get let me see if I.
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 4: Can find I'm not I want.
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: I'm wanting to do something like country to round it
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 2: out and not just stuck here.
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 4: I could do more kids stuff, but.
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 2: I think if I'm listening I said, I can't see
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 2: my savious kind of Christian. I wish I could come
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 2: up with a Christian guilty pleasure. Wouldn't that be good?
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 3: That would be good. Those are always the big boys
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 3: audio A, especially like classic CCM stuff.
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 4: Yeah, no, that's true. Let me see. I am.
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 2: I'm studying kind of through Southern gospel stuff right now.
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 2: I don't know if I'm going to be able to
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 2: pull that as a guilty pleasure, but I will tell
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 2: you I'm listening to old school Southern Gospel a decent
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 2: amount trying to under trying to I'm interested in the
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 2: whole Christian I mean always have been. I just I
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 2: like the Christian space. But I've always found it difficult
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 2: to sincerely like an artist. But I can feel moved
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 2: by worship music, you know what I mean, So I
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 2: know that's the right guilty pleasures. I'm trying to figure
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 2: out what I could name, but it is harder.
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 4: I think. Let's see, what is my favorite Christian band?
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 4: You know?
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 2: Out of the bands, I don't know if anybody knows
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 2: this band, but out of the bands that were at
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 2: Mars Hill Church, Citizens, Citizens and Saints, if you have
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 2: that brand, the guy that sings for that, his name
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 2: is Zach Bowlin, and it's I'm pretty sure his voice
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 2: is competitive at any possible level that Zack Bryan's is
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 2: or just Stapleton almost are almost in that level.
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 4: And I've always been very moved by his voice.
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 2: So the fact that it's Christian, I will get it
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 2: will give a guilty pleasure. But I just really think
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 2: is profound, profoundly talented. He's always been one of my
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 2: His vocals moved me almost no matter no matter what
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 2: he does, and a lot of the music they do
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 2: is just a Christian thing or worship thing, and I
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 2: really struggle with it. But if it's like, how am
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 2: I supposed to really balance the meaning the lyrics where
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 2: it comes from the sound, I don't really know how
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 2: you're spoke, Like if if you can get moved by music,
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 2: you know what I mean, Like worship music will turn
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 2: me off a lot. But it's also really getting close
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 2: on some levels too.
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 4: So it's this close for me whether or not I
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 4: can buy it or not. Yeah, Zach, I always believe it.
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 3: Do you find that it is usually the lyrical content
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 3: or is it usually the musical movement that that that
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 3: gets you.
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 2: Well musically and compositionally. I think it's really usually doing
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 2: really a lot.
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 4: Of have a lot.
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 2: It's a lot of potential there and lyrically I'm say,
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 2: I mean, my opinion is like.
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 4: Zach could be Zach Bryan, but his lyrical content is
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 4: I don't know what it is.
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 2: It's just like you're seeing it gets close to where
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 2: you're singing about God, but it sounds like you're singing
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 2: about a girl, and somehow that gets you just get
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 2: a little confused there between the two. You know, we could,
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 2: but it's a little bit harder too. It's somehow that
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 2: can make it confusing, so that there's a I don't
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 2: know if it's a lyrical barrier or just like a
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 2: or ideological like it's like where's it coming from? Sometimes
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: it can be more challenging. I think, sure, if you're
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 2: trying to bring God into it because it's a human
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 2: maybe it's just the human passion in your voice is enough,
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 2: and then it can be confusing to.
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 3: Totally understanding.
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 2: You mean, I'm open minded on it. However, it can work,
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 2: like I believe in it. But if you're doing Christian music,
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 2: somehow you are limiting yourself. It feels like if you're
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 2: doing Christian music, that's valid, but yourself limiting. That's what
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 2: I think totally, like there's more possible for people that
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 2: are thinking they're doing Christian music for a Christian audience.
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 2: Somehow they're self limiting, and I think the potential actually
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 2: is higher. Oh, agree has to be the good ones
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 2: and the bad ones is just bad now.
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 3: Earning potential probably not so much. But that's completely.
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 1: Different, right, And I don't know if I tell you
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: guys still would have a bus if you were worship music.
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, But so that all that effort we were putting
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 2: into the bus. I don't know if I mentioned this
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 2: or not, but Toby and I have been working on
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 2: this thing. We got like a computer guy and we
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 2: working on these algorithms that are test the sincerity of vocalists.
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 4: Well like AI technology.
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 3: Oh that's cool, that's that's something that red.
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 2: So it's like it's like it's an authenticity because you know,
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 2: we're all about being real and authenticity.
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: So we're trying to figure Yeah.
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 3: So you have to have you have to have a
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 3: litmus test. So who's who's your litmus test? Because it
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 3: can't be told me, you can't. You can't let it
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 3: be close to close to home. It's got to be
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 3: someone like that that you know is just like the
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 3: most authentically uh rude to themselves while they vocal.
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 2: So, I mean most of the training data is emory itself,
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 2: because emory is the most authentic and transparent bands. Okay,
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 2: so it is the primary training data in the AI
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 2: models and the early beta versis.
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 3: So maybe that should be the control group.
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 2: That's the control group, that's the standard of which you
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 2: would measure, and then we're going to use that data
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 2: and find other like minded bands. And then run it
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 2: down the open thing so there'll be a score purpose.
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 2: So like you put it in a Spotify RL on
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 2: the website and I'll tell you how authentic the emotion
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 2: truly is, but based on analyzes of the lyric content,
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 2: the sound, the tonality and all that kind of stuff.
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 2: So it's gonna be a while before it's like public launch,
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 2: but we're in there in that process.
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 1: So it's like is this being an email? But it's
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 1: like is this being authentic?
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 2: Dot co Yeah, And it's a judges like do is
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 2: it true that he's really that singer's really been through
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 2: that thing?
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 4: He's singing the back like it meant it? You know,
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 4: it's it's complicated actually gay.
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Like it's gonna be like yeah, And so it
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 2: just reads and because you know, even you can authentically
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 2: do stuff that's storytelling like this that'd be strictly true,
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 2: but you know your own self belief and what you're doing,
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 2: Like you know, you can read falseness basically in people,
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 2: and we believe it that AI can read it an artists.
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 2: So you know, if you listen to a song that
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 2: you're at the mall and you hear songs that sound
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 2: like songs, but you don't think the real songs is
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 2: like playing at the gap and it sounds.
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 4: Like a real band, but it's not a real band.
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 4: Like they'll score low.
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 2: Obviously because it's not authentic. And then somewhere in the
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 2: middle it's going to be Yeah, you know, so we're
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 2: hoping that can contribute.
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 1: I feel like you're about to disappoint a lot of galors.
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 3: I just want to know where Toby mac falls on this,
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 3: because I don't believe it for a moment.
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 2: Well, so that's what yeah, to measure is does the
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 2: person believe it? Are they chasing an audience and commercialism
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 2: or because if you are fully delusional of your own
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 2: wherever you are, that's gonna that does work.
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 4: That is okay. Like overall, it's better to be self deluded.
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 2: And authentic than it is to be calculated for profit
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 2: or commercial success.
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 4: That's that's what I believe.
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 3: Millennials are going to eat this up because millennials they
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 3: crave authenticity. So I mean this is perfect. I think
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 3: you guys have a million dollar ideal plus on your hands.
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 3: That's awesome.
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 1: I'll be visiting that website.
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 2: So it's going it might be a while, so just
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 2: it's just early yeah in there, but with the A
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 2: I boom and you don't know how we have to
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 2: have our finger in somewhere, and that's where I thought.
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 3: We could put brilliant place to put it.
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 1: Love it, uh well, speaking along those lines, so you
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 1: want to plug that, but anything else you'd like to
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 1: plug in terms of emery stuff. So obviously the tour
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 1: is about to start here soon potentially. I don't know
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 1: if you guys are writing now, I mean whatever, whatever
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 1: you guys want to.
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 2: Say, yeah, yeah, I don't have it, like to plug whatever,
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 2: But I can give you the lowdown on.
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 4: The process there.
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 2: And again I already told you it might be true
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 2: that nobody gives a fuck if we ever write another
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 2: song or not understood.
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 4: I give a book to do stuff, and sometimes people
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 4: like what we do.
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 2: People actually really understood and like rub some dirt on it.
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 2: Feel very successful about that experiment and that album, So
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 2: very happy with.
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 4: That, and so are.
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 2: We're still driven by the idea that we have to,
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 2: like you know, push ourselves to some territory they'll be
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 2: interesting to us. And so we're going to be slightly
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 2: more experimental.
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 4: We're exploring spaces.
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 2: That are a little more dynamic and less heavy, and
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 2: we're a doing a more stronger empowerment of all six
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 2: members of the band, where each member is leading a
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 2: batch of three songs and steward like not necessarily writing
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 2: or whatever it is, but like being we're going to
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 2: try to maximize the collapse. Take from rub some dirt
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 2: on it, take the collect of intelligence of Emery and
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 2: empower each member to select what ideas are the most
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 2: stimulating to them and have them champion three ideas through
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 2: and release.
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 4: And so that'll be eighteen songs that we have.
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 2: We've got a bunch of ideas going and it's like
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 2: who's going to take which idea and make it theirs
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 2: and see it through and then try to employ as
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 2: much possible collective intelligence and try you know, it's it's
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 2: another experiment of trying to push the limits of what
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 2: we're capable of collaboration. Why whereas rubsom dirnot was trying
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 2: to push the limits of the pressure of the live capture,
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 2: this one is to try to farm as much of
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 2: the emory essence as we can from all the members
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 2: as much as possible versus you know, Toby and Devin
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 2: do this, you know, just instead of trying to redo
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 2: other formulas, we're trying to create new formulas for gaining
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 2: fresh excitement and staying with what are our musical strengths,
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 2: and also so probably putting it in a quieter space
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 2: because we love doing songs and stories and we do
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 2: these acoustic pre shows. I would say, if I'm pushing anything,
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 2: come to the pre show of the shows that we
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 2: play in the afternoon. We do that with Gillespie and
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 2: it's just the best, Like musically, if we play in
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 2: a living room or arrange for six people, but acoustic
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 2: with a piano, it's just so deeply musically satisfying because
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 2: I think we just have a lot to offer in
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 2: that space maybe that other bands don't, and we don't
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 2: necessarily aren't trying to scream harder again next time.
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 4: That's not the approach.
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 2: So we're flexing all those kind of muscles in the writing,
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 2: so that's not that concrete, and the presentation of it
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 2: should be pretty obnoxious, and we'll figure out the obnoxious
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 2: ways to do it and present it. Even if we're
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 2: not using as much distortion or screaming. We're looking for
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 2: what are those levers to push that make it obnoxious.
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 3: I desperately want to hear a Southern gospel style Emory song.
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's something to that. I don't think that's gonna
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 2: be the album exactly, but.
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 4: I feel at that.
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 2: But yeah, when when Devin and Toby and Gillespie, who
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 2: all have that same exactly, they all have the same
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 2: really similar backgrounds of growing up in a church and
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 2: being labeled as prophets and you know, scared of hell
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 2: since they were aged four and told they were going
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 2: to change the world with their voice for Christ. Like,
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 2: all three of them have that, and it's like they'll
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 2: sing these gospel songs from there and it just sounds
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 2: so good. Like I'm trying to figure out how we
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 2: could capture them three doing that in a way that
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 2: is good or releae because it's when they sing, the
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 2: three of them sing together like you got tolb me,
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 2: Devin and then Gillespie, and I promise you they all
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 2: sound it sounds like all three of them were meant
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 2: to sing together when they sing together. So I'm trying
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 2: to figure out if there's a way we can capture
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 2: and release some of something of that, because they're just
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 2: something about the depth of where they all come from musically,
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 2: like the specific.
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 4: Three of them, you know, belongs together. So I'm trying
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 4: to figure out what that would be.
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 3: I can only imagine. I hope, I hope you can
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 3: find a spot. Yeah, yeah, because that that that that
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 3: deserves a place in music recording history especially. Yeah.
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 4: But anyway, the pre show events that we do that
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 4: and have a good time with it.
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 2: It's very loose. I love open and a lot of harmony,
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 2: and that's it. That's what's that's what's fun.
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 3: That's great, that's great. Hell yeah, love it.
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 1: Well, Matt, thanks for chatting a little bit more, just
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 1: being really candid about kind of like you know, where
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 1: where you you know in terms of like twenty years
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 1: now of emery stuff and just kind of like your
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 1: reflections on all that and where you're at now. And
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 1: I just really always appreciate your honesty and your kind
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 1: of candidness. It's just really great. So thank you so
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 1: much for chatting more about that, chatting about kind of
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 1: where you guys are at right now. Super stoked to
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 1: see you in a couple of weeks. I'm going to
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 1: be jamming out. I might even see me stage drive
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 1: once or twice.
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 2: So oh yeah, well you're good at and there's everybody
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 2: knows you'll famous, most famous from your stage diving clips
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 2: more than anything else you've ever done.
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 1: That's right, S.