Latest / Hurdle with Emily Abbate / Episode 10: Golden Harper, Founder Altra Footwear

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Episode 10: Golden Harper, Founder Altra Footwear · Hurdle with Emily Abbate

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of Hurdle. I am Emily a body.
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: This week I'm chatting with Golden Harper. He's the founder
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: of a shoe company called Ultra, which if you've been
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: listening to Hurdle over the past few months, well you
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: know a little bit about him by now. Harper's Hurdle
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: moment came right as he was taking a leap of
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: faith to get the brand off the ground, he found
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: himself in a snowboard accident, which left him in rough shape,
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: unable to walk, nevertheless run. Today we're chatting all about
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: how that crazy, horrifying experience made him stronger, both mentally
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: and physically. Quick Thank you to the sponsor of today's episode,
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: Pluto Pillow. Guys, if you know anything about me, it's
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: that I am an early riser, super early, like five
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: thirty am kind of thing, which means that I try
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: to get to bed early too. I really prioritize my sleep,
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: and getting good sleep has a lot to do with
• 0:53
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• 0:57
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• 1:00
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• 1:03
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• 1:07
  Speaker 1: That's Pluto to answer a quick questionnaire and receive a
• 1:11
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• 1:15
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• 1:18
  Speaker 1: That's Pluto pillow dot com. A little housekeeping on my end.
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: Exciting housekeeping. We are just two weeks away from Hurdle Live,
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: a panel talk on self love with some of the
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: rad guests from the podcast's first ten episodes, How Insane
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: is It? We're already up to episode ten. Hurdle Live
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: is at the Rlow Nomad Hotel on May eighth at
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: six thirty pm. I'll be sitting down with Fred Santarpia,
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: the chief Digital Officer at Conde nast Alex Silver Fagan,
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: Nike Master Trainer, Adam Callen, co founder of Jane Motorcycles,
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: Sarah Levy, the badass babe behind y seven Studio, and
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: Candice half Feine, model and create of Day One. Huge
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: thanks to my friends at the Arlow Hotel for helping
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: me make this all possible. I am so so, so
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: so so excited. If you are not already, also make
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: sure that you are subscribed to Hurdle in the iTunes
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: store and follow the pod on social media at Hurdle Podcast.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: And last, but not least, if you like getting good deals,
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: listen up. In honor of Golden Stint on today's episode,
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: Ultras offering an exclusive discount to Hurdle listeners good for
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: fifty percent off of retail value on their site Ultra
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: Running dot Com. Use the promo code Ultra for Hurdle. Again,
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: that's Ultra for Hurdle. A L T R A f
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: O R h U R D L E. To get
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: your deal. Head on over there altr running dot com.
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: Snag yourself some kicks and that's it. Well that let's
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: get to hurdling. So today I'm sitting here with Golden Harper. Golden,
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: what's going on?
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: Hey, just hanging out in Park City.
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: Park City. I know this is a fun little experiment
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: for Hurdle on the road. Indeed, tell me a little
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: bit about your shtick, Golden.
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I started a shoe company called Ultra, trying to
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: make shoes based on scientific research instead of on marketing.
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: So basically every other shoe company has been built on
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: performance in marketing and hasn't really ever focused on the
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: injury side of things, and what this, you know, the
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: way science says shoes should be built.
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: In my opinion, so when you make a shoe that
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: is designed based on science instead of marketing, what is
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: a consumer going to see that is different in that shoe.
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: There's probably two main things. First thing we do is
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: we make shoes that are level from heel to forefoot.
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: You're born that way, you get up every morning that way.
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: We call it zero drop, meaning that the shoe doesn't
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: drop from the heel down to the fore foot. And
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: you know, this is just the way we come. I
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: call it oem human, you know, like this is just
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: like natural human when you get out of bed in
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: the morning, boom, your zero drop, you know. And so
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: we try not to jack with that. And then the
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: second thing is that something that people never think about
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: is that shoes are not shaped like healthy human feet.
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: Feet are naturally pretty square shaped, and shoes are pretty,
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: you know, fairly pointy, even athletic shoes. You know, you
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: think like, oh no, they're they're comfortable or whatever, but
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: they're not shaped like your feet. You know, stick a
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: healthy foot down next to a shoe. Those are two
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: very different shapes, and it goes all the way back
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: to preschool. You know. Don't put the square shape in
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: the triangle whole, you know. And then you know, we
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: take take our kids or whatever, and we put them
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: in these shoes, and we wonder why their feet start hurt.
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: And you look at there's a billion people on earth
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: with that don't wear modern footwear. They go barefoot or
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: they wear primitive sandals. Zero chronic foot conditions, no planifesciosis,
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: no onions, no aromas, no heel spurs like, none of
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: this stuff that plagues us, you know. And you know
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: here in America, seventy three percent of US report foot
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: pain every single day or every single year. So it's
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: just a huge number, three out of four of us.
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: And chronic foot conditions and foot pain itself are caused
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: by shoes. And unfortunately, in America we spend twenty eight
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: billion dollars every year on pad surgeries and treatments to
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: help relieve pain that was caused by our shoes that
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: we spent twenty six billion dollars on.
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: Is that the number really twenty six billion dollars of.
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: Market, twenty six billion on shoes, And then we spend
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: twenty eight billion on just stuff to fix the damage
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: that our shoes are doing to our bodies. And because
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: it's so slow and over time, you know, people don't
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: notice that the shape of their foot is changing, or
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: that they're getting a bunion, or that they're having a
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: neuralma form or whatever. And you know, then you wake
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: up one day and it's like, oh, wow, I'm really
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: you know, kind of messed up.
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: Wow, this is a totally normal thing. Just to decide
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: one day You're like, I'm going to try to start
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: this company that is completely different than every single other
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: athletic footwear company out there.
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: It's insane, It isn't I thought the urge for like
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: a year and a half.
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: What really drove you in the first place to say,
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: not only do I want to find a solution for
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: this problem that you found, but then I'm going to
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: create a footwear company based on this first question.
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: So my dad was actually working for Nike when I
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: was born, and we opened a running store when I
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: was nine, and so I had been working in this
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: running store up until the time I went to college.
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: And when I went to college, I wanted to I
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: wanted to research shoes and injuries so I could better
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: help the customers that came into my store. Because you
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: start to realize that after you've worked in a running
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: store or a shoe store long enough that most people
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: come in to buy shoes because something hurts, something's broken,
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: something's off, and you, if you care, you want to
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: you want to be able to fix them. So I thought,
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: I'll go study that in college. I get into college
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: and I start researching shoes and injuries and running technique
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: and all this stuff, and I realized, like, oh my gosh,
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: everything I've been taught by all the shoe companies is
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: total bull craf like like it has no scientific, you know,
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: basis behind it whatsoever. I've been lying to people my
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: whole life, and it was really frustrated straighting, you know,
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: like it was like always like, oh, you have a
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: knee problem, let me give you a shoe with lots
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: of gel or lots of air. And where the science
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: shows that like cushioning technologies actually magnify forces on the joints,
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: you know, they make it harder on your body. Checking
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: all that stuff out that made me want to build
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: shoes that were actually based on what you know, these
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: pediatrists and researchers had been saying and suggesting shoes should
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: be made.
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: Like, so, how does someone go from wanting to do
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: that to actually doing that? I mean, I'm assuming you
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: had to first come up with a footprint pun intended
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: of what this could look like in practice, and then
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: of course next up is finding funding for a project
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: like this.
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so initially I used my staff as guinea pigs
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: at the store. So I actually made the first prototype
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: shoe in my toaster oven. So we were watching people
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: run at our store, and we would teach everybody how
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: to run an efficient way that protects their body. And
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: as we started videoing people with slow motion. That technology
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: came available just over ten years ago, and we start
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: watching people in slow motion, we see people run completely
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: differently in the shoes we were selling them than they
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: do in like a cross country flat or a racing
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: shoe or something that's barely there, or when they don't
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: have shoes on at all. And my dad's comment was,
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: he was like, I teach everyone in here a lesson
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: on how to protect their body when they run, and
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: then it looks like I sell them a pair of
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: shoes that undoes everything I teach them every single time
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: I go out there. And that was a really sobering moment,
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: you know, it was like, it was a really frustrating
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: moment too. And as I'm watching the video, I can
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: see like the heel start to drag as it swings
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: out in front of the body, and then it catches
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: a couple inches early, and just this light bulb is like, well, yeah,
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: look at the way the shoes built. It's twice as
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: heavy in the heel, it's twice as thick in the heel.
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: Like of course it's going to change the way the
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: body wants to move. And that's when I went home,
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: popped a pair of shoes in the toaster oven and
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: ripped the sole out of there, took the rubber off,
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: put in some level you know, weight balanced pieces of foam,
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: glued the rubber back on, went for run and started
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: filming things and then guinea pigging my staff at the store.
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: And then that worked, and we you know, started somehow
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: some customer found out about it, and some guy that
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: had to had knee problems for everyone couldn't fix them,
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: and he's like, well, I'm willing to try anything. I'll
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: try those ugly shoes and put them on, and you know,
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: we're like, okay, just don't tell anybody about this, you know.
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: So wait, were these the same shoes that you made
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: in the toaster that the guy took run outside?
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: I believe this first one. I don't know if it
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: was my toaster ribbon shoe, because we started making shoes
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: with the shoemaker down the street where he would just
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: cut into and level out our kind of like best
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: selling shoes in the store.
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: I've got to ask you, like, what brand were these
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: shoes that you were toasting.
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: The first pair of shoes I put in the toastbin
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: was an innovate shoe. The shoes that I did my
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: initial twenty five pair on my staff were the original
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: nineteen eighty four Soccny jazz Is.
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: We called them the Jazzy Zeros.
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: The Jazzies.
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: All right, So you start toasting shoes, you find that
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: there are people that are down with the toasted shoes.
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: When do you go in your mind that you're thinking,
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: maybe it's about time I stopped toasting the shoes and
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: instead start looking into ways to actually produce these in
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: a legitimate fashion.
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So what happened is we sold a thousand pair
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: of these modified shoes the first year. So that one
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: I told his friend, who told a friend, who told
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: a friend, and it just got like fight club. People
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: are coming into the store like, Hey, I want to
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: try the zero drop shoes and we're like, oh, there's
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: no such thing. And they're like, oh, we know they're
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: back there, you know, and we're like, okay, what's the password?
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: Were you just buying these sockeny shoes in bulk?
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: No, So what we started doing is we were taking
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: the best selling shoes in our store. Yeah, and we
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: started we started having the shoemaker down the road hack
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: those up, and so we had a variety of different shoes, roadshoes,
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: trail shoes, our best selling models in the store, and
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: these are what people were coming in and we would
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: actually have them, you know, we figured we were going
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: to get sued pretty quick, and yeah, we had a
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: full size run that they could try and then we'd
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: give them a fresh pair and we would either take
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: them to the shoemaker and have him modify them and
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: then pick them up and pay for them, or they
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: would do it themselves.
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: And what was the what was the cost overhead on
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: like buying the shoe, doing the shoemaker, and selling them again.
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: So we didn't really try to make any money on this.
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: So in fact, we didn't make any money on them
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: that we just most of them we just had paid
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: the shoemaker directly or we charged them exactly what he
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: charged us, because for us, it was an experiment on
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: whether this worked. And so we actually got a thousand
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: pairs of shoes sold that first year, and we gave
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: surveys out and we paid people ten bucks to come
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: back and tell us what happened, What hurts more, what
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: hurts less, How are you landing different, what muscles are
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: you using differently? Like the whole rundown. And there was
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: no bias because you know, we didn't care. It's just like, okay,
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: what's good, what's bad? You know what's working, what's not working.
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: And what we found is we had five like major
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: areas that it helped with and low back is shoes
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: like really stuck out. We had the number of like
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: three hundred pound dudes that came in that were not runners,
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: you know, that got these shoes leveled out to pull
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: pressure off their lower back was insane and would go
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: into the shoemaker and get all their shoes leveled off,
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: you know, their dress shoes, half the heels off, you know.
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: And then we found planofasciosis, which is a big one
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: for runners, shin splints, runner's knee, and it issues. Those
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: were the four we saw like overwhelming success with, and
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: so we took these surveys and I didn't want to
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: start a shoe company, so I just went to We
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: had good connections in the shoe industry, and so we
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: just took the surveys to the shoe companies and said, hey,
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: when you build shoes like this, when you get that
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: heavy elevated heel out of the shoe and you expand
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: the toebux to make it look like a foot, then
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: these injuries go away. And we have the proof. You know,
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: we have a thousand you know people, and all these
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: surveys worth, and we don't want any money for the idea.
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: Just build the shoes so we can sell them at
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: our store.
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: But that's kind of an insane proposition because you, without
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: really realizing it, have a very feasible money making concept
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: in your hand.
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I didn't see it that way.
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: You just wanted people to be better.
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, all that was it fixed people.
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: So something. I also think that it's important to mention
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: right here before we kind of head into your big
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: hurdle moment. As I know it is that Golden also
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: grew up a runner. As he mentioned, Golden is the
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: Guinness World Record holder for the marathon time at age twelve.
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: So I think that I've had a lot of great
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: people on the podcast so far, but Golden is by
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: far the most active before he hits the hurdle moment. Like,
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: were your parents like, yeah, you should go run a
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: marathon at age twelve? When I was twelve, my dad
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: was making me like egg sandwiches on Sunday mornings and
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: we were like leisurely walking through our town trail.
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I was not normal.
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: Actually I came in last, literally last place in a
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: five k with my dad at age twelve.
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: But you were out there.
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: It's very true.
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, No, I was a strange child obviously, So
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: I wanted drum when I was nine, and they were like, no,
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: that's insane, you can't do that. And what happened that
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: year is the youngest runner in the race got this trophy,
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: this performance the Day trophy, six feet tall, I'm like
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: three feet tall, and I'm like, if you let me
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: run that race, I would have got that huge trophy
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: about three octaves higher, you know. And they were like, okay, fine,
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: if you run next year, you know, if you if
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: you train, and like, if you do rim to Rim
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: in the Grand Canyon and run to the top of
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: Mount Timpanogus and back. These things are harder than a marathon,
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: you know, then we'll let you run the marathon. I
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: think they were thinking they would dissuade me. They really
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: underestimated three foot me six six foot tall trophy, you know,
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: just like think about that. And so I ran my
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: first marathon as a ten year old three hours in
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: eight minutes.
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: I didn't get the trophy, did they two questions? Yeah,
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: the three hours in eight minutes just totally trip me out.
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: What kind of pace is that?
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: It's about seven minutes a mile.
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: A seven minute mile at ten years old? Also, did
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: your parents run those other outrageous things they threw in
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: your face to tell you if you do these things,
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: you can run the marathon.
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: Yes, and we did it all. So they were like,
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: you know, four marathonish things we had to do before
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: the marathon, and they went and did them, and I came.
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: Along and yeah, so threeh eight people run all of
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: their lives looking for a three to eight and you
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: did it at age ten.
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: I know, I kind of hate talking about it because
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: people get pissed.
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: Okay, So then what happened at age twelve?
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: So I didn't get the trophy and it was eleven
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: either ran faster. So my thought process it was like, oh,
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: I'm not impressive.
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: Enough, right, this is really great for a child self esteem, right. Yeah.
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: So yeah, so at age twelve, I'm like, you know,
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: I didn't know like you know, state record, national record, whatever,
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: and those first two years, and so this third year,
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: I'm just trying to get the big trophy. Run really fast,
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: two forty five world best. Never got the trophy. I
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: ran faster than next the next year as well. I
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: never got this giant trophy, but it was the thing
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: that motivated me.
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: Do you have a trophy now in your house?
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: I never got that six foot tall one, and frankly,
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: looking back at it, I'm kind of glad. I'm like,
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: I've got like a little plaque that hangs on my wall,
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: and it's it's nice, you know, I don't know what
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: I'd do the six foot tall trophy.
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: I don't know. It's twenty eighteen. Maybe someone's going to
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: get you in for Christmas this year. After hearing this
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: podcast fast forward, you are having this amazing sneaker concept
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: much later, and then something happens that kind of throws
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: you on your ass. What happened?
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah? Literally, actually I was. I was snowboarding, had you know,
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: it went a lot in the winter, and it was
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: right while all this stuff was happening, just starting up
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: the shoe company. All the shoe companies had told me, no,
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: we're not going to build that. And after a year
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: of like sitting around hacking up shoes forever, it was
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: like a you know, I ended up getting kind of
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: pulled into it with my cousin and we decide to
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: go after this thing. And so debt is stacking up.
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: It looks impossible. It's completely insane. Nobody does this. We've
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: had the same seven big running shoe companies since the
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: beginning of time, and so I'm deep in debt. It's
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: just like not working. It's crazy hard, and I'm out snowboarding,
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: snowboarding to kind of clear my mind and just like
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: clear the air and I decided, like, you know, I
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: want to do the train park a little bit more.
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: And so I'm in there and I I'm my fear
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: factors not as high as it should be, and I
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: hit a pipe that you could call a hurdle, uh,
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: doing a flip going about thirty miles an hour, and
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: so I you know, traveled another thirty feet through the air,
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: landed on my head and my shoulder separated, my ac
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: joint and then my snowboard and my legs came back
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: according back behind my head and hit the ground behind
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: me and stretched you know, my glutes, my hamstrings and
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: everything in between as far as possible. Basically just ripped everything,
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: you know, And and that was that was kind of
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: it for me being active for quite a while.
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: Right when it happened, did you know like this is
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: this is bad?
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that hurt like well, I blacked that when
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: it happened, my helmet you know, crack and luckily, you know,
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: I had the helmet on. I knew my shoulder was
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: super jacked. It was just excruciating. And then I could walk,
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: you know, so I knew like something was was super
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: super bad.
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: How long were you down and out for from walking.
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: It's only only a few days to a couple of
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: weeks that I really couldn't walk, you know, walk. I
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: guess I probably didn't walk normal for maybe a month,
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: and then it was just kind of a long road
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: back from there. Frankly, I'm still not all the way back.
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: And I had shoulder surgery last year that they couldn't
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: quite fix everything, and then the legs are coming back,
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: but they're not perfect. So it's been a long road.
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: What does this really do for your frame of mind
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: in terms of the things that you have been working on.
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sure being put in that situation, you
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: are kind of forced to really evaluate what you have
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: going on in your life and also probably the people
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: you have in your life.
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, the previous fall, I had just graduated from college.
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: I ran my first ultra marathon.
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: Where did you go to college?
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: BAU and BW Hawaii, And I was super successful with
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: this first fifty mile race I did. And so you
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: can imagine the amount of time being spent there. And
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: then I'm working, like, you know, a lot to get
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: this this shoe company off the ground, get Aultra off
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: the ground, and now I can't run. I got all
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: this time Boom laser folk, and it just happened to
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: be the right time like for me to focus on
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: like where I needed more time to really get shoe
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: company off the ground. And so what it did is
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: it just got me laser focused on what would become
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: ultra and aer work weeks became the norm for you know,
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: the next couple of years.
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: As a guy who as a guy who majored in
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: exercise sciences, how does that guy go to being you know,
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: so knowledgeable about business to creating this company.
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: I have been menting our shoe store off and on
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: for several years, you know, even since I was pre college,
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: so I had a lot of management experience, and I think,
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: you know, the business side of things mostly comes naturally
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: to me. And I'm a big like abundance karma believer,
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: so like you throw good stuff out into the world
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: and good stuff comes back to you, and you always
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: like make the right decision for everyone and ultimately that's
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: going to come back and be good for you. And
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: so I'm kind of always abided by those principles, which
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: is really different than maybe the business world as a whole.
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: But I always saw it work. And my dad was
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: like the ultimate example of this. You know, if he
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: had to give shoes away, he would do it. Whatever
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: it took to like just do the right thing. He
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: would always do it. And it always came back good
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: for us, you know, and it could be ten years later,
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: but it always came back. And I just kind of
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: took that. And I mean I was, like, you know,
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: one credit short of a business management miner, so I
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: did do business in school, and how to is a
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: management emphasis on my degree as well.
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: How does someone who so strongly believes in karma really
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: feel after an accident like that.
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: I don't know. That's like, I mean, I'm a really
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: religious person as well. I just I really believe that
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: there's a plan for all of us and that you know,
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: not to be like the lame. Everything happens for a
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: reason kind of thing. Like we do choose our own way,
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: and I believe that we're allowed to choose that path.
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: And you know, you like, if you have kids, you
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: have to let them learn, you have to let them
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: go out there and experience the things you can't, like,
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: you know, walk them through everything and tell them exactly
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: how to do things. And I feel like, you know,
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: if you believe in God or whatever that it's the
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: same way there. God can't just hold our hands and
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: make us do everything right, Like we have to like
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: learn through our own experiences and we choose those things.
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: But I still think there's a plan.
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: For all of us.
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: And so part of that is that like the more
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: good we give, you know, the more good I expect,
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: you know, should come back. And it just makes sense
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: when you think about it. And I like, my name's Golden,
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: and I really believe in the Golden Rule and whatnot,
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: you know, like really like treat others the way you
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: would want to be treated or better, you know. And
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: I just think that when you do that, things that
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: work out in the end, even when they don't make
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: any business sense or any other sense or whatever it
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: happens to be.
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: So you're kind of bedridden, you're starting to walk a
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: little bit. You're certainly not running. I mean I was
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: sidelined last year with a little bit of arthritis in
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: my lower back, and I had to really fall back
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: from both running but lifting all the things. And it
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: was really hard, and it was you know, I could
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: do enough things for you. You are walking instead of running.
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: How did that change? How did that change things for you.
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I've virtually lost everything that I love to do,
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: which you know, people who aren't active probably won't understand this,
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: but it was a one complete lifestyle change and really
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: jacks with like the way your mind works too, because
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: if you're used to being active and you love the outdoors,
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: and for me, like I'm a mountain climber, I love
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: to be on top of a big mountain, you know.
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: And but what happened is it allowed me to channel
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: that energy into focusing on other people, as in, like,
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: let's create the best shoes ever to keep people from
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: getting hurt, to get rid of foot conditions, to get
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: rid of foot problems, to make a lot of these
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: common running injuries a thing of the past, things that
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: don't have to happen. And at the same time, I
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: met my future wife right after that started dating her
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: as well, and so I had these kind of two
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: places to channel all that energy that I was using.
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: And you could say like it was a little selfish.
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: Before it was like, you know, I mean they're good pursuits,
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: you know, being active and being outdoors, these are good things.
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: But now I'm like putting all this energy into building
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: something that I hope is great for everyone else, and
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: I'm putting all this energy into, you know, really doing
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: nice things for this person that would eventually become my wife.
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: So where did you meet her?
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: We met at church, actually, yeah, you know, but we
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: lost contact. This is the best part. We re met
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: and started dating again at a race that I had
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: showed up. The shoes had just come out, they were
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: brand new on the market, and I'm there at this
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: little five k in my hometown with just like a
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: spread of shoes on a table and her and her
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: you know, mom and her brother walk up, and I'm like, oh, hey,
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: what's up, you know, And we had we've done on
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: one date, like you know, seven months earlier or whatever,
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: and had lost contact or whatever, and her brother was like,
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: you really need to date him?
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: And then a couple were an entrepreneur.
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's great.
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: So you go fall head on into this shoe company.
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: You are not one hundred percent And when does the
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: shoe company really start to take off for you as.
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: Far as like me being committed to it, or as
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: far as shoes selling like hotcakes?
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: I mean, were you ever not committed to it? At
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: the point after you're.
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: All in like this was like do or die. We're
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: going to go a million dollars in debt and you
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: know it's all going to happen. So because I believed
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: in it, I knew it worked. We'd seen it. We
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: had a thousand people by freaking hacked up shoes, and
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: we had the surveys, like we knew it was effective.
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: We knew it helped people. And so when you know that,
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: like it's like, you know whatever, We're just going to
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: do it, and we know it's going to work. And
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: who cares if everybody in the industry says that it's
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: not And who cares if no one's done it before.
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: We're going to We're going to create change for the better.
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: And so still remember me and my buddy Brian and
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: my cousin Jeremy go to the Outdoor Retailer Show. We
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: have ten feet by six feet.
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: What's the Outdoor Retailers Show?
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: The biggest like show for any kind of outdoor and
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: active brands. You know basically in the world, I would say,
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: you know in America, and.
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: It's like an expo.
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: It's an expo. So you know, stores like outdoor stores
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: and running stores and any any kind of active type
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: of stores come to this to like check out you
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: know stuff, mostly cool stuff from big brands. And here
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: we are in this ten foot by six foot booth
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: with a shoe and like and people just like would
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: put the shoe on and they're like these are you know,
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: they look different because if you've seen our shoes, they'd
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: look like feet, you know, at first, like a foot
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: in a soap got traced because that's how we came
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: up with the shape. And you know, they're like, ah,
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: they look really weird, and then they put them on.
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: They're like, wow, that's where they comfortable. We had this
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: like pretty amazing response. And we go to this show
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: called the Running Event, and the Running Event is where
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: all basically the running stores in America come to one
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: place for one you know, for a few days every year,
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: and so you get to see all these running stores.
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: And we had twenty five running stores place like decent
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: sized orders for shoes, which was incredible because the shoes
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: didn't even exist yet. It was a Ponzi scheme, like
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: what year are we in here? End of twenty ten
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: and you're walking fine. Now this is like this is
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: like a year after the accident up to this point,
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: so Yeah, I'm walking and I'm kind of running a
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: little bit, but on the back of the.
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: Pack, I can't even I mean, I feel like everyone
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: obviously goes through emotional hurdles, but a hurdle that really
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: puts you on your ass like this, while you're so
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: brilliantly trying to build this epic company. It's like you're
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: at two different ends at the spectrum at once. Yeah,
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: how what kind of advice would you give to someone
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: who really feels like they can't put aside the bad
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: stuff to focus on the good stuff because you had it,
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: you had a lot of you had a lot of
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: bad stuff working against you.
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you just have to channel energy. Like,
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: when you have something bad in your life, you can't
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: just say I'm not going to do that anymore. You
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: have to replace it. So you have to find something
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: good to replace the bad with. And that's to me,
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: that's really cool article and it's really pivotal. So if
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: you're out there and you know you've just got a
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: lot of distractions and a lot of things that aren't
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: good in your life, you've got to find other things
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: to focus on that bury those things basically, and eventually
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: you create new habits in the good way that basically
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: overcome and suffocate the bad ones. So that's I guess
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: that's what I would say. And again like throw good
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: stuff out there, you know, just like do the right thing,
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: do good things for other people, and eventually it's going
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: to work in your favor. It just always does, you know,
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: and you might we go back to this whole Everything
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: kind of happens for a reason. Thing like I truly
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: believe like I had a snowboard accident that made me
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: not be able to run so that I could slow
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: down enough to actually spend more time with my wife
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: or who would become my wife, and so I would
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: have more time to focus on Bill what would become
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: all too.
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: Quick break. To give the sponsor of today's episode, Pluto Pillow,
• 30:17
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  Speaker 1: code hurdle for twenty dollars off your purchase. Let's get
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: back to it. So I'm back here with Golden Harper.
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: He is the founder of Ultra. So you've got thousands
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: of orders for shoes. How does one actually get shoes made?
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: Like?
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: Who did you know? How did you know who was
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: going to get you the materials? Who was going to
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: manufacture them? Like? How to design them?
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: Nobody? So when there's a will, there's a way, right.
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: And my cousin Jeremy is just one of those people
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: that like he's just like fine stuff. I could call
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: him like he's like mcguiver. And what ended up happening
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: is he found this guy who found these guys, and
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: these guys were they had just left Nike, Adidas, and
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: we're talking the last maker at Nike, the head of
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: the kitchen at Nike, their advanced concepts team, the guy
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: in charge of Nike University teaching everyone at Nike how
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: to build shoes, the VP of development at Adidas, the
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: head of Catada Das. These guys are like serious shoemakers
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: and they heard about what we were doing. And so
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: I get this phone call and my first thought is
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: like finally getting sued, you know, it's finally happening, Like
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: they're suing us, you know. And they're like, no, it's cool.
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: We left those companies. It's all good. We've actually known
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: for fifteen years that shoes are supposed to be built
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: this way. We knew this at Nike, we knew this
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: at Adidas. We had the data, like we knew shoes
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: are supposed to be built this way. And it's been
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: painful all these years building things we didn't believe in.
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: And we want to make shoes like this too, and
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: so I'm like, okay, why are you guys calling me?
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: And they they're like, well, we don't know anything about
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: outdoor stores or running stores, and we don't have a
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: marketing story. We're just like old guys that know how
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: to build shoes at the end of the day. And
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: so it kind of clicked and I was like all right,
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: and they're like, how soon can you come up to Portland?
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: And I was like, won't be there in a couple
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: of weeks. And we jumped in the car and road
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: tripped up there and you know, backed a couple of
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: peaks along the way, and you know, slept in the
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: van and slept on the beach, and you know, it
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: was great. And so these guys had some connections and
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: they found a guy who had connections to factories, and
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: you know, we told them we were like absolutely committed
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: to building shoes in America and you know, all this stuff.
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: And after it all came back, you know, they looked
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: at everything we were trying to do and they're like, okay,
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: you got to readjust some expectations here. You can build
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: shoes in America, but they will be three hundred and
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: fifty dollars and they will suck, and I know other
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: people who have built shoes in America, and that is
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: actually very true for the most part, which is sad.
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: And then I dream one day that we'll fix that.
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: But right now, we don't have a shoe design school
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: in America. You can't go to college in the United
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: States to build or design shoes. So all the expertises
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: in China, all the you know, really that Hong Kong area,
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: all the materials, all people, I mean everything. It's crazy.
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: So he gives us the connection and then from there,
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: you know, we start, you know, I just tell these
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: guys what I want and they designed it in three
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: D and then we send it over the factories and
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: we get a first prototype back and it's hideous, but
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: it's totally cool and it works, you know, and then
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: it just kind of snowballs from there.
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: Where does the money come from?
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: Where did our money come from?
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: I mean, someone's money came from somewhere.
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: This is the stupidest thing. So we basically go to
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: this guy we had a friend.
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: This is like one big mafia thing, I know, right,
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: I told you it.
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: Was a Ponzi scheme. When we were selling shoes, like
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: we were having people write orders because the shoes hadn't
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: been BILLI yet, right, you know, So what happened is
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: we had this friend who knew this guy who had
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: started this big company called Zango that became this billion
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: dollar company, and it just that.
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: I know what is that.
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: It's like a neutral nutrition company. They build like you know,
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: they start with mango steam juice and just that kind
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: of stuff. So if you heard of like no Ny Juice,
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: it's kind of a similar kind of thing and just
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: all this you know, nutrition stuff. And he's the one
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: who was really influential with me, like kind of teaching
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: me about the abundance thing and a little bit with
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: the karma and whatnot. And so we go to this guy,
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: we don't have any shoes, basically sit down in front
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: of him. We're like yeah, so we cut the heels
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: out of shoes and we expand the toe box and
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: you know, make them shape like feet, and all these
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: injuries go away, and you know, we think it's you know,
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: we have stage to show that it's you know, going
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: to fix all these problems. And he's like, okay, you know,
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: we talked for forty five minutes and he just tells us,
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: let me you know, discuss this with my wife overnight
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: and I'll call you back in the morning. We're like, okay, cool,
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: and it's like no chance.
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: He calls us back in the morning, he's like, I'll
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: give your first quarter million, and it was like okay,
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: you know, didn't ask for an ownership. Steak was just like,
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: let's just get this thing going. I believe in what
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: you're doing. And we're like, we didn't even have drawings
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: of shoes.
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: How old were you?
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: I was twenty seven. Yeah, it's so fun, Like it's.
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: Literally speechless because if that that's outstanding.
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so then we like to get more.
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: What does your parents think Your dad's like the running guru.
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, no, they thought like they knew the
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: idea worked and they knew it was great, but they
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: were like, it's it's suicide. Like no one's ever done this,
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: no one's ever broken into really the running shoe business
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: for sure, and the outdoor business is really it's more
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: competitive than cars for turing out loud.
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: And then someone hands you two hundred and fifty thousand dollars.
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: Which is like barely enough to even like prototype the
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: first you know shoes basically, you know it got us through,
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: you know, and paid for part of an order, basically
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: the part of the first order.
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: And then after you paid for part of that first
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: order and you started selling them, was it like an
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: instant this is going to be okay situation or were
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: you still like, what the hell are we doing?
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: No, we had this moment after we had paid for
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: part of the first order, we didn't have enough money
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: to pay for the rest of the order. And so
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: the way the factory did it, they were like super
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: nice to us and said, Okay, you pay like you know,
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: x amount up front and then you pay the rest
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: when we finish the shoes, which factories just like don't
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: operate that way. But our connection, our agent, David Hill,
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: he just kind of brokeer this deal for us basically
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: super great and it just kind of like worked. But
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: at the same time, we're sitting here and we didn't
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: have money to pay for more, and we're looking at
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: really spending like a million dollars to really get this
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: thing going, you know, from start to finish here and
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: we're staring down the barrel of that and we don't
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: have it. And we go to Angel investors and they're like,
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: you've never sold a shoe, Like you don't even have shoes.
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: You know, you have a shoe like one that you
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: guys run in and test, but you know, like you
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: haven't sold a single thing. You want us to give
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: you money. That's insane. And so we're at this point
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: and you know, we're trying to get the factory to
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: maybe invest because they think it's a cool idea. And
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: I mean literally we're on the brink of destruction, like
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: thirty times where it was like if something doesn't come
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: through tomorrow, the whole thing folds, you know, it's all
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: over and everything, like we've put everything into this and
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: quit our jobs and all this stuff, and then the
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: next day like something would just click, you know, something
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: would happen and we'd survive for another few weeks.
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: And is that something like someone giving you some more
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: money could be?
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean one of it was Joe Morton, the
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: initial investor that started Zango, that gave us the first
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: bit of money. He you know, he kicked in a
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: little more at times. And then you know, we had
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: these guys from King Adidas that had come on. They
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: were you know, they had kind of committed some at
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: some moment and and that kind of got us through
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: a few weeks or a couple months until they decided
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: it was too risky and just just crazy stuff.
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: So how did it go from being like super crazy
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: to something really legit.
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: It's still super crazy, but it's legit too crazy. Thing is,
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: since we weren't since I especially wasn't interested in making money,
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: we actually did an acquisition deal with a company called
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: back On Health and Fitness before we sold our first
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: pair of shoes. So the shoes had been like we'd
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: paid paid for the first part of the order, and
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: we'd been talking these guys off and on for nine
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: months and it all just kind of came together, and
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: so we did an acquisition deal with them, and they
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: basically wiped a weale our debt and completed the payment
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: for the shoe order, re routed the shoe order from
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: you know, my running store, my buddy's basement to their
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: warehouse and all of a sudden, you know, we're technically
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: their employees and here we go, you know, and it
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: was still, you know, still super crazy after that, but
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: that took care of the funding piece, and we were
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: spending so much time trying to raise money that it
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: was really nice to be able to focus on other things.
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: And now, I mean the sneaker is not just one sneaker.
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we make you know, twenty five models. We're about
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: half outdoor like hiking, you know, ARII outdoor specialty stores,
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: and were about half running right now.
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: Something I kind of want to rewind back to really
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: quick is you mentioned casually that you used to run
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: like crazy distances, and by the way people run these
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: races for that, I feel like, you know, when we're
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: in this world of this health and fitness community, it's
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: kind of commonplace to know that people actually do go
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: past the marathon distance and run fifty one hundred even
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: more than that. So you did that kind of stuff.
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, a little bit.
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: Talk to me a little bit about the mental space
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: that comes with running that kind of race, because I
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: feel like, you know, we're just hitting out all of
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: these different challenges in your life that really involve like
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: next level kind of mental capacity.
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean I was obviously very driven from a
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: young age, and you know, I always say, if we
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: were doing it for health, we'd all run five ks,
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: and that really is true. If you're out there trying
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: to run for health, like five k train try to
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: learn to run a fast five k. But if you
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: want a mental challenge, go run an ultra marathon, because
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: it is you know, it's a lot of physical, but
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: it's a lot of mental too. It's brutal. And my
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: first fifty miler, I you know, it stayed basically up
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: near eleven thousand feet for thirty miles and I had
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: altitude sickness, and halfway through the race, I'm leading the race,
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: but I'm like, it's sober delusional, Like you know, there's
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: people asking me if I'm you know, I can run straight,
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: like I if I'm okay, Like I can't even think right,
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: you know, and you know, I just everything, and you
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: wants to drop out, and then like you sit down
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: and slam it and sure and eat part of a
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: burger and change your shoes and just start trudging back
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: up the mountain, you know, and just see what happens.
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: And then it starts snowing on you, and then you like,
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: you know, just kind of get into a little bit
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: better place as it starts downhill, and then you almost
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: get struck by lightning, and then and then you know,
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: things start to roll and you just kind of like
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: fight through it. And you're like, no, I can do this.
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: We just like one foot in front of the other,
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: just make it happen. And it really is similar to
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: starting the shoe company in that it really was that
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: kind of space where it was like this could be
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: over at any second, Like I'm on the brink of
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: destruction here, and I really all I can do is
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: just put one foot in front of the other and
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: trust that something good is going to happen. And that's
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: all there is to it, you know.
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: I mean not everyone is in the place in their
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: life to go train for an ultra marathon, but people
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: do all face their own challenges that feel like an
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: ultra marathon for the people that really feel like they're
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: stuck in the mud training for their proverbial ultra marathon.
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: What kind of advice do you have for someone on
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: that kind of challenge, Brank, I'd.
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: Say, like a couple things. First, look outside yourself, Like
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: the biggest thing, like I think is important in life
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: is like it's not about you, Like channel your energy
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: into building up people around you, do nice things for
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: other people. Do like just step outside yourself. You know
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: people say it, but it's such a big deal. Is
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: just believing, like believing in yourself, believing in like, you know,
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: if you are just positive and throw positive vibes out
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: there and do positive things and put positive things out
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: into the world, that it's all going to work out.
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: And I think, you know, it's a huge part of it.
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: And people say like, yeah, well a lot of people
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: say it's all going to work out, and it's still sucked,
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: you know, And it's like, well, yeah, maybe it sucks
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: right now, but maybe the reason it sucks right now
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: is because it will change you and make you something,
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: build you into something bigger and something better that helps
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: you dominate later, you know. And so it's really hard
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: because this life is short, and it's really easy to
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: think like my life is crap right now, and we
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: don't realize like it's just a small moment in time,
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: and even though it feels like crap right now, like
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: you can affect it, and we you know, largely you
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: can't control your own destiny to a degree, and sometimes
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: you just have to get through it. And like the
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: ultra marathon thing, just like keep putting one foot in
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: front of the other and keep clawing and scratching and
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: fighting until you've changed into something bigger and better.
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: People get to a place where they take a misstep
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: and they feel like they've failed. But essentially what you're
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: saying is that you haven't failed, You've learned a lesson.
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, every mithstep is just it's just a chance
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: to learn and get better.
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: For people at home who are looking for a sneaker, like,
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: what kind of advice do you have for them when
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: they're just like going out, Like what should they be
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: looking for? I mean everyone's different.
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean obviously I'm biased. I can tell you
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: what the research says, and the research says that the
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: shoe that you're going to be the most efficient and
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: least injured in is the shoe that you feel the
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: most comfortable, relaxed, free, barefoot like in. So basically you
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: feel like your foot is unencumbered, completely untethered toes, lost
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: in space, just completely relaxed. Think bedroom slippers like and
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: the shoe. And there have been so many studies done
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: on this and they always come back to what the
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: researchers call the comfort filter. If you have those things,
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: you don't need excessive arch support. You know, arch support
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: is something you need because your heel is up in
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: the air, and your toes are crowded together, and it
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: compromises the integrity of the bone structure, and so all
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: of a sudden, like you need arch and so you know,
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: to me, it's it's fairly simple, like put on a
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: pair of shoes and actually run on them. Don't ever
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: judge a shoe boy, how it feels walking. If the
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: shoe doesn't feel too big, it's too small, Like you
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: should have a full thumbnail width between your longest toe
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: and the end of the shoe.
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: Talk a little bit about that. I feel like people
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: the most common thing that I see with new runners
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: is obviously that black toe. And if you're not a
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: huge runner, black toe is when it's exactly what it
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: sounds like. It's when your toenail turns black because you're
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: putting too much pressure on that area of your foot,
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: hence causing black toel.
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, me and my buddy's run, you know, hundreds of
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: miles and long races, you know, up to you know,
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: one hundred or even two hundred mile races and don't
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: get black toenails, don't get blisters. But part of that
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: is just having a shoe that shape like a foot,
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: And the other part is getting it big enough. And
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: you know, if you look at it, eighty percent of
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: people buy their shoes too small. So that's that's big number.
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: Four out of five of us are walking around the
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: shoes are too small for our feet. Add to that
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: the fact that your foot is shaped mostly like a
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: square and your shoes are shaped triangular or kind of
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: torpedo shaped like that just like compounds that problem. And
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: then on the on the female side, which is the
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: really sad side of things, most women's athletic shoes are
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: just takedowns of men's. They just like take shrinks and
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: volume off the top, throw some pink on it. I
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: call it shrink it and pink it, and call it
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: a woman's specific shoe. And it's bull crap, you know.
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: So that's one thing that we totally engineer, one hundred
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: percent separate, is our woman's shoes are completely different from
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: the men's. But the other thing is the average woman's
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: shoe is two sizeses narrower than the average woman's foot.
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: So you just think of the Chinese footbinding you're doing
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: to your feet, you know, American style, if you will.
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: That's something that's real and that's happening and so you
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: have to account for all that by just above all,
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: like get your shoes big enough, get them relaxed enough.
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: You should feel like the shoes too loose, if it
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: doesn't feel too loose up in the toes like you're
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: used to having it tight, you know, So it's it's
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: just not right if it doesn't feel loose up there,
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: and that's huge, Like that makes a bigger difference than anything.
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: And also like giving it some time to get used
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: to that, because if you've been wearing your shoes so
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: tight for so long, when you put on the next
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: size size and a half up. I mean when I
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: started running, like eight years ago, I was one hundred
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: percent wearing true to sized sneakers. I was wearing a
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: ten and sometimes at nine and a half. I have
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: big feet. Yes, I was wearing a ten, sometimes a
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: nine and a half because I liked how they felt
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: tight on my foot. But then I got the black
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: toenails and I was like.
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: You might like it, but it's bad.
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: Oh, now I wear nothing under a ten and a half. Yeah.
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: I tried to stick to the ten and a half
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: and that's the eleven. The eleven is just too I
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: can't I can't muster that in my head.
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: That's another thing to me, like a it's just a number.
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: Be nobody cares like and three ladies, Like, no guy
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: looks at your feet and is like, oh, she's got
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: big feet. Not half of men like that just doesn't happen,
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: Like nobody even looks there. You know, it's like a
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: trust me, it's the last place guys. And you know
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: the other thing is like for us at our running
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: short we knew what size is sold best. Our best
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: selling wom's shoes had was nine and a half. So
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: everyone thinks that every lady is a seven. That like
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: never happens. That's like once a week, once every two
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: weeks we would sell seven, where we're selling nine and
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: a half tens all day every day.
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: So talk to me a little bit about what your
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: fitness routine looks like. Now obviously you said you're still
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: not at one hundred, which has got to be an
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: interesting thing to kind of deal with so many years later.
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I travel enough for work that I'm not super hardcore,
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: but I think a lot of people would would say it,
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: I'm pretty hardcore at the same time, So I run
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: three to four days a week if I'm lucky. I
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: take three months off every year. I always have. I
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: read that the best runners in the world, the Kenyans,
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: do that. So I'm like, if the Olympians are taking
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: two three months off every year, I can do that too.
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: So I don't run at all for two to three months.
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: I'm just finishing that right.
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: Now, two to three months.
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: It just depends whatever I feel like. But it's usually winter,
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: you know, good timing, really good timing. Yeah, can ski
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: and snowboard and stuff. So I do spartan races as well.
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: Obstacle course. So I've got a whole like rig underneath
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: my deck at home, and we're actually putting a climbing
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: wall in right now in the house.
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: Normal human activity, normal human activity.
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: And it's just like fun stuff like you get to
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: go climb around walls in your house and do monkey
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: bars under your deck and uh, you know, stuff like that.
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: So I do that and burpies and push ups and
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: pull ups and simple stuff like. It's nothing super complicated. Virtually,
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: anybody invites me to do anything athletic, I'm gonna be like, yeah, come,
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: you know, so it could be ultimate frisbee, one big
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: one week flag football, the next basketball, the next you know,
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: and I really believe doing those things that do side
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: to side movements are huge for preventing running injuries because
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: most running injuries have nothing to do with impact, scientifically speaking,
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: they have everything to do with muscle distribution. And humans
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: were not built to walk or run on flat ground.
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: It is just not how our muscle structure is set up.
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: So doing things, you know, trail running is an example
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: of getting more side to side in but you know,
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: anything with side to side motion is huge for fixing
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: that stuff. So that's kind of where I focus everything
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: else on.
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: Just a wealth of knowledge, a huge wealth of knowledge.
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: I want to end this on a positive note. You
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: look back on where you started, You reflect on that
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: time that you were selling shoes in the store and
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: you were putting sneakers in the toaster. What is one
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: piece of advice you would have given the guy who
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: slicing up the shoe to put the shoe in the toaster?
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: Don't stress out too much? Like like I said, we're
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: on the brink of destructions so many times, and I
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: would get you know you just of course you're stressed
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: because you love it and you believe in it. But
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: at the same time, like it'll be what it'll be,
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: and like you just put everything you can into it,
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: put all the positivity you can into it, believe in it,
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: be positive, and just like trust that things will work
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: out the way they're supposed to either way.
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: Golden, it was so awesome to have you here. I
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: feel like I've learned so much from you. Thanks so
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: much for coming in. I think we're going to cut
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: it here. Please take a moment to leave a quick
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: review by clicking the link with the description to this episode.
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: We all face multiple hurdles in life. I want to
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: hear about yours. Reach Out to me at Emily at
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: hurdle dot us. Connect with the podcast on Instagram and
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: Twitter at Hurdle Podcast, and feel free to check us
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: both on social media as well. Golden, what's your handle
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: at run Golden one and for Ultra at Ultra Running Beautiful.
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: I'm at Emily a body that's a b b ate.
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: Thanks for tuning in, guys, Another hurdle conquered. See you
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: next time.