Latest / Martyr's Row / Ep. 27 - Israel: Land or People?

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Ep. 27 - Israel: Land or People? · Martyr's Row

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  On this episode of Martyrs Row, is there an accounting
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  department in heaven? Is Israel a person or is
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  it a land? Wonder bread? Wonder bread? You're
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  the bread. We're the bread? We're the bread.
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  Wonder bread? Welcome to Martyrs Row. Three,
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  two, one. Saint Sebastian. Saint Sebastian, captain
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  of the guard under Diocletian, wore the armor
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  of Rome but bore in his breast the banner of
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  Christ. With steadfast heart, he strengthened
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  the brethren in prison until his faith was revealed.
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  Having been discovered, the tyrant Diocletian
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  ordered Sebastian to be stretched upon a tree
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  and made the aim of their cruelty and pierced
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  through with arrows. Left for dead, the faithful
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  widow Irene tended his wounds and by God's providence
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  he was restored. Yet, refusing silence, he came
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  again before the emperor and boldly rebuked his
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  idolatries. Whereupon Diocletian, astonished
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  that one thought slain should stand so resolute,
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  commanded him to be beaten unto death with clubs.
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  Thus fell this noble soldier of Christ, whose
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  constancy and torment ratified his witness, that
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  faith, though pierced and broken, cannot be overcome.
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  Anno Domini, 288. Hey, Paul. Hey! Steven! Hey,
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  I've got something weird for you. I love it.
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  Let's jump right into it. OK. We don't normally
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  do like... That's the biggest lie we tell on
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  this podcast. Yeah, good point. What? Let's jump
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  right into it? Never jump into it! Okay, I'm
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  going to. You ready? Okay, I'm ready. Alright,
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  Daniel 8. You thought I was gonna say like Wonder
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  Bread or something. No, I didn't mean like let's
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  jump into it. Okay, but real quick. Nope, Daniel
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  8. Okay. Wonder Bread. Daniel 8 verse... Daniel
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  8 verse 13. I'm not gonna set up like what's
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  happening here. I just want to point out this
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  one thing. Daniel 8 verse 13. Then I heard a
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  holy one speaking. So this is Daniel saying that.
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  Then I heard a holy one speaking. And another
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  holy one, so another one pops in, said to the
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  one who spoke. Okay, so there's two holy ones.
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  One holy one is speaking, and another holy one
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  said to the one who spoke, for how long is the
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  vision concerning the regular burnt offering,
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  the transgression that makes desolate, and the
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  giving over of the sanctuary and host to be trampled
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  underfoot? And he said to me, for 2 ,300 evenings
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  and mornings, then the sanctuary shall be restored
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  to its rightful state. Think you need a diagram
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  for I know so so like the simple of it is one
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  holy one Yeah, which doesn't say one angel says
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  to another angel right and like in the yeah in
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  the the the ecosphere I don't even know where
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  I got that from. I don't either. The ecosphere,
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  that needs to be our t -shirt. Join the ecosphere.
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  We probably said that at the time. Actually,
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  that's kind of awesome. Martyrs Row, join the
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  ecosphere. Welcome to the ecosphere. So in the
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  ecosphere of Martyrs Row, who knows what that
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  is? I think it's just like a cavern. It's like
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  a catacomb. It's actually brilliant now. Join
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  us in the catacomb. I like it. Oh, yeah martyrs
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  row. Yeah, I guess that makes sense. It's kind
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  of awesome Yeah, it is so Definitely intentional.
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  Yeah, we talked about or we talk all the time
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  about like how there are other spiritual beings
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  There are other things going on. There's There's
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  not just like like angel demon. Yeah, there's
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  not just like human and then Angel there's not
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  like simple categories. Yeah, there's a whole
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  host of heavenly beings. And we see that here
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  where it says one holy one speaking to another.
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  So in this image what we're getting is one holy
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  one is like, hey guy, hey other holy one who
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  knows things that I don't know. Not because I
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  lack the knowledge but because seemingly the
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  context of this is I don't. I'm not the keeper
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  of that information. So the Holy One who is the
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  keeper of that information tells him how long
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  something is gonna happen. Which implies that
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  that Holy One's job is to basically keep record.
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  Is to like have the data of that. Now in this
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  passage, the Hebrew word that's used there is
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  palmany. That's the translated holy. Yes. Okay.
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  So the Holy One, the Palmani, is a mysterious
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  holy being often interpreted as an angel, specifically
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  identified as the Wonderful Numberer or Numberer
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  of Secrets. Wow, interesting. So this word, Palmani,
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  is what's said in Hebrew there, referencing the
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  Holy One that I just read from the ESV, the Holy
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  One who is telling the other Holy One and Daniel
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  how long this is gonna happen. That name in Hebrew
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  of that Holy One, these two Holy Ones as the
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  ESV shows. It's the same Hebrew word for both?
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  No, it's not. Oh. So it's Holy One and then Holy
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  One. But the Hebrew word for the one that shares
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  the number is palmini, which means wonderful
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  number or number of secrets. That's so interesting.
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  Yeah, so what that means is there's a being in
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  this instance in Daniel chapter eight where there's
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  a Holy One spiritual being who, I shouldn't even
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  say spiritual being, but there's a Holy One being.
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  There's a being. There's a being that's referenced
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  as a holy one, and then it just says holy one
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  to holy one, holy one to holy one. Yeah. And
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  that's where some of the translation is like,
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  well, wait a minute. The Hebrew uses different
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  words here. That's fascinating. But for some
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  reason, the English decide to translate them
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  both the same. So we're just looking at angels
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  talking to each other. Which would be easy for
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  us to do that. Right. Yeah, because that's our
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  translation. So it's like, oh, yeah, that makes
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  it's the same, two of the same creatures talking
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  to each other. Yeah. But Hebrews is like, no,
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  actually they're different. They both have different
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  jobs. They have different jobs. Now, it would
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  probably be true that they are on their peers.
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  Yeah. Like it would probably be true that they
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  like work together. Yeah. You know what I mean?
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  One of them happens to be in accounting. The
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  other one is like in sales. What other jobs are
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  there? Accounting and sales. I don't know. Hey,
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  have you heard about Jesus? Well, one's probably
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  the historian. And then the other one's the mysterious
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  numberer. The accountant. But not the accountant.
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  But not the accountant, though. That's what I'm
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  gonna start calling accountants. The mysterious
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  numberers. What's the word again? The polysum?
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  Palmany. Palmany. Palmany. There's palmany, guys.
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  It sounds very Greek, doesn't it? Every April.
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  Yeah, it kind of does. Yeah, there's definitely
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  a Hebrew way to say it. I'm not saying I don't
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  know what it is That's one outside. That's how
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  I'm interpreting it, but I could see someone
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  being like no, but I do love that Because it
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  kind of just continues to show that It really
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  isn't that simple, but we've made it overly simple
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  because we just don't know Hebrew. Yeah You're
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  reading, and then it's like, it's very clear
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  these are two separate jobs. Yeah, and to be
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  fair, it's like, well, what's the point of the
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  Bible? It's not necessarily, like, the word of
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  God given to us is to reveal Jesus. So, like,
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  do we really need all of these individual things
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  as far as, like, do we need it to say palmy,
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  or do we need it to say, like, the number in
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  heaven is speaking to the historian in heaven?
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  Like, do we need that? And I think the answer
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  is, at the point which you can study the original
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  Hebrew, it is helpful to you. So if you are continuing
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  to dig, there's more to find. But if you're not,
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  then it doesn't matter. Yeah, no actually that
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  I like the way you said that because essentially
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  it's the is it helpful or is it not the answer
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  is yes, right? Yeah, it's like well, it depends
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  on what you mean by helpful Yeah helpful to get
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  people saved. Well, I don't like the Lord works
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  any way he wants Yeah, I don't think anyone's
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  salvation is hung up on that translation No,
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  but it's only those two things. But if someone's
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  like, hey, I'm saved I love Jesus and I want
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  to actually study this book a little bit more.
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  Yeah There's so much more to uncover. Yeah. And
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  if somebody is just going like, well, this is
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  all just kind of flat and it's boring, and the
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  Bible is just some other random myth that's thrown
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  into the mix of all these other myths, you're
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  like, all right, well, how about we do a quick
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  study? And let me show you how interesting this
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  actually is. It's actually much bigger than we
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  thought. Yeah. And it's like, this isn't just
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  medieval categorizing of angels. It's like, no,
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  actually like, if you just go into the, yeah,
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  it's like, it's already there in the Hebrew.
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  And so it's there for you to find, but it's not
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  necessary to the story. You know what I mean?
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  Or the purpose of why we have the story. Yeah.
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  Well, and that's where it's like, there's those
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  layers of truth where it's like, well, is it
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  necessary to know the person of Jesus? No. But
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  is it important to understand Wait, what do you
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  mean? What do you mean? I think it is important
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  to know the person of Jesus. Well, it's like
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  the translation. It's like, oh, this guy's the
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  number and this guy's the historian or the sales
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  guy. It's like, well, is your salvation hinged
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  on that understanding? I thought you were saying,
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  just in general, is it important to know the
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  person of Jesus? Oh, no, no, no, no, no. OK.
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  That's not what I meant. That's why I was like,
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  oh, hang on a minute. I guess I had an implication.
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  There was an implied previous statement. You
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  took a pause, you didn't need to. And it was
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  to my detriment. But it's like, yeah, your salvation's
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  like, you can know who Jesus is and not know
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  that, ever. But to know, because I think that's
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  one of the, I think a lot of times, as Christians,
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  this is where discipleship comes in, is we stop
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  at salvation and we're like, all right, I got
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  my fire insurance, I'm good to go. But it's like,
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  no, there's actually a lot more here, and you
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  can understand the wider range of like, okay,
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  well, why did Jesus do what He did? Why does
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  Yahweh work the way He works? Why are we even
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  in the position we're in? And there's all these
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  little things that can help to flesh out like,
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  this is the reality that we're living in. And
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  I think on the simple side is that I think a
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  fallacy that I fell for for a long time was that
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  after Christ's resurrection, the supernatural
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  world kind of just stayed. And they're just waiting
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  on us. But it's like, well, they didn't stop
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  existing. Like, they still have jobs to do. They
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  still doing their stuff. Stuff's changing. Stuff's
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  happening the same way it is here. And so it
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  makes sense that there are people that have their
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  time cards in heaven. Well, and that is actually
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  something that I'm putting on our list to study
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  is there was a period of time where the church
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  had a stance where they were the church militant.
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  That would be the phrase used or the harsh translation
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  of how they were viewed, meaning the church or
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  Christians were... were meant to occupy the space
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  that we live. And not in a passive way, but in
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  an active way, the way that Jesus did, where
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  he was actively going into spiritual spaces that
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  had other authorities ruling. And he was saying,
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  now I rule this space now. And that's what we
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  see. casting out demons or going to specific
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  places that have other spiritual authorities
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  and him walking in and saying, but who do you
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  say that I am, right? So you have all of those
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  things and as Christians, that's kind of what
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  we need to be doing is like, and as we do, and
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  so - I mean, that's the great commission. Right,
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  so after the resurrection, that's the whole thing.
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  It's like, as we do that, to a certain extent,
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  if we're in an area that somebody's already done
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  it, it's a little bit easier. Yeah, but if but
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  originally it's like the whole like as people
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  were moving west in the united states And they
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  were just like horse and buggy through the mountains
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  haven't made roads yet Yeah, and they're just
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  like fighting their way to stay alive. Yeah,
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  like that's what the church was doing Before
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  modern day. Yeah, and there are still some missionaries
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  that are pushing into places like that still
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  But it's that idea of church militant. So like
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  yeah, we need to explore that Yeah, but that's
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  that's the whole idea of like yeah, like after
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  the resurrection spiritual things just kind of
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  chill Yeah, it's like well don't stuff's happening
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  But yeah in some ways a lot of the spaces have
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  already been occupied in which we live Yeah,
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  you know absolutely so they've kind of been taken
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  over and in some ways That's the feeling that
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  we get of teetering back and forth where it's
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  like we feel like it's this light versus dark
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  type of thing. And in reality, we live in a city
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  where, realistically, the light is dominant in
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  a spiritual way in our city. And so it's easy
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  for us to actually just not go to dark places.
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  Yeah, because they're actually harder to get
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  to. Yeah, they are. In a lot of ways, it's like,
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  to paint a picture of that, it's kind of like,
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  well, we're in the castle, in the stronghold,
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  and then the rest of the world is out there.
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  And it's like, well, if we stay in the castle
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  all the time, yeah, you don't think that that's
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  real. Because you don't experience it, it's not
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  part of your life. But if you go outside the
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  castle walls once in a while, it's like, oh,
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  there's actually some stuff going on here. Yeah,
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  and that's the thing is the comfort of America.
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  The comfort of being here, it's almost like,
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  it's such a good tool for the enemy. It's just
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  like having a nation who's moving towards comfort.
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  And so being in spaces where everything is like,
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  the goal of everything is to not be uncomfortable
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  at all. But the gospel and living for the gospel
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  is, Paul talks about rejoice in the suffering.
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  But if our goal is comfort, then we're not pushing
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  the gospel and the kingdom forward. Because if
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  there's not a tension in us, if there's not a
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  difficulty with what we're doing, then we're
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  actually striving towards the American goal,
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  not the kingdom of God goal. Yeah. Which is comfort.
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  Yeah. Versus moving in a position where suffering
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  is more, we're more used to suffering than we
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  are to comfort. Yeah. You know? And it's, I think
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  it's interesting how that can play out though.
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  Cause it's like, to use the phrase like it's
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  the glory of the mundane. Where it's like, well,
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  there is still glory in that. It's like you don't
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  have to be the guy. He's not a call like we all
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  have to go sell everything and go be missionaries
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  Yeah, I don't think that's a call for most people
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  right in in that as far as like overseas missions
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  But it's the call of many And it's like well,
• 16:40
  what are those people need? It's like well They
• 16:41
  need people to help fund them a lot of times
• 16:44
  because they're working on spaces where they
• 16:46
  can't support themselves by themselves But also
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  think about think about military like oh sure
• 16:52
  you like When you push, when a space is pushed
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  into, and there's a building established, or
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  there's an outpost established, they're standing
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  guard, and that's mundane. So like the Christian.
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  That's exactly where I'm getting. Yeah, exactly.
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  So like the Christian, in a space where they
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  feel called, there is still an active thing that
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  they're doing. But it may not be active every
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  day. It's just like, hey, let my neighborhood
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  not fall away. because I'm just sitting in here
• 17:24
  making sure no one gets inside or corrupts what's
• 17:27
  inside. And then losing the ground that's right
• 17:30
  outside the doors. And with that, there is suffering
• 17:33
  in that too, if we're doing it. One, it's like,
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  maybe it's a financial suffering where it's like,
• 17:38
  man, I'm giving money to help support these things.
• 17:42
  I can't buy a, you know, a ship now. You know,
• 17:44
  whatever it is, I don't know. A ship? Who's buying
• 17:46
  a ship? I like boats. I'm thinking of boats.
• 17:49
  Going straight to a ship. Paul's saving up for
• 17:52
  a freight liner. Look out, I'm coming! Or do
• 17:56
  you know something about the next flood that
• 17:58
  we don't know? Just give it a hundred years.
• 18:02
  Again, like, so that's why we need to do an episode
• 18:04
  on that. We definitely do. Because there's so
• 18:06
  much to unpack there. There's a lot. But yeah,
• 18:08
  so Daniel, Paul Mini. I love that. The accountant
• 18:13
  of heaven. The office of the accountant. The
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  sales guy. Daniel 8, look it up in Hebrew. And
• 18:19
  Daniel's in the waiting room. It's kind of interesting.
• 18:21
  So we're about to jump into a song. Yes. Song
• 18:24
  segment coming up. And we're back to theme songs.
• 18:30
  I know. We're back on it. It's kind of exciting.
• 18:33
  Yeah. So I feel like we need to start being like,
• 18:36
  hey, I like that theme song. Don't like that
• 18:38
  one. Yeah. Let us know what you guys think. Yeah.
• 18:41
  Let us know anything. And we'll keep writing
• 18:43
  new ones. We will. Even if you like the old one.
• 18:45
  Yeah. We'll just put it in a playlist so you
• 18:48
  can listen to it. Yeah. Or just so we can listen
• 18:51
  to it. We will. Ready? Enjoy. Three, two, one.
• 19:05
  It comes in sleepless nights. Chase the faith
• 19:10
  and don't lose sight. History is wild. Theology
• 19:17
  is fine. But Constantine has crossed the line.
• 19:26
  Our martyrs are up. The truth won't fail. Through
• 19:35
  trials and night, the light remains. With hearts
• 19:45
  aflame, the world will know. We walk the path
• 19:56
  our Lord is right. The fox took notes, we're
• 20:15
  telling it all The saints blow red and stories
• 20:20
  align The Leo wants his cocaine wine On martyr's
• 20:27
  row The truth won't fade Through trials and night
• 21:16
  Please subscribe and support the show, so we
• 21:20
  last longer than papal info. That was a good
• 22:10
  song. I intentionally didn't say that. You're
• 22:16
  welcome. What a tasty song! It was at least fun.
• 22:23
  It was fun. I mean we experienced it. I hope
• 22:24
  so. Yeah. It was fun for me. Pass that cocaine
• 22:28
  wine. I had fun. Pass that cocaine wine. You
• 22:32
  know that's what Coca -Cola was. Oh yeah, wasn't
• 22:35
  it? It was cocaine soda. It's so strange. It
• 22:39
  was medicinal though. It's all medicinal. Here
• 22:45
  on our show we call everything medicinal. These
• 22:47
  are my medicinal skittles. I've got a doctor's
• 22:51
  note for them. Well, yeah. Have we already talked
• 22:53
  about where pharmacaya comes from? I don't know
• 22:56
  if we have actually. That's another episode.
• 23:00
  Okay. Welcome aboard. So we can't point you to
• 23:02
  a past episode, but we can point you to a future
• 23:04
  episode. So continue watching. Please, it'll
• 23:08
  happen. You're like, what's pharmacaya? You were
• 23:10
  just talking about cocaine and medicinal. That's
• 23:15
  right. That's what it is, pharmacaya. That's
• 23:18
  right. Did we come up with it? They'll have to
• 23:20
  remind us, because I'm going to forget. Who knows?
• 23:23
  Who knows? Since we are talking about the past.
• 23:26
  OK. King of segues. King of segues. Here I am.
• 23:33
  Is it true? that the guy who invented the Segway
• 23:37
  died on a Segway? Yes. That is true? It is a
• 23:41
  true, is it? It's a true legend. It is true,
• 23:45
  I mean that's not untrue. It is true that that
• 23:48
  is what I heard. Okay, because it is true that
• 23:51
  I also heard that. Therefore it is true to me.
• 23:54
  Now is it truth? That I do not know. But it is
• 23:58
  the history in my mind. And it is man's longing
• 24:01
  to. Discover wonder bread look it up now Do we
• 24:09
  just need to see how many times I could say wonder
• 24:11
  bread in this episode a little counter I'll never
• 24:15
  get through this This episode will never come
• 24:18
  out because we say wonder bread at 583 times.
• 24:21
  I'm gonna I'm gonna like edit a piece of bread
• 24:25
  coming out of our mouths. It could just be in
• 24:28
  a thumbnail You would be like, what does that
• 24:32
  have to do with anything? That's thinking better.
• 24:35
  The thumbnail's going to be a giant loaf of Wonder
• 24:38
  Bread behind us. What are they talking about?
• 24:41
  I want to watch that actually. I mean, I guess
• 24:43
  at this point, it's kind of worth it. Oh, it's
• 24:45
  a payoff. Because Wonder Bread, Wonder Bread,
• 24:48
  Wonder Bread. I can just see the hours disappearing.
• 24:53
  583, we got to get to it. What if I could somehow
• 24:56
  count that number in my mind and I kept track
• 24:58
  of it? They're going to go to Vegas. I would
• 25:00
  have Asperger's. Yeah. That's a superpower for
• 25:04
  sure. That would actually be kind of cool. It
• 25:07
  would be. Yeah. The other stuff around it would
• 25:09
  be tough, but that would be cool. Yeah, because
• 25:10
  I feel like you'd have to count everything then.
• 25:13
  Or you just always know how much of everything
• 25:15
  there is. Potentially. Yeah. That's the whole
• 25:18
  Rain Man thing. That's the Midas Touch. Yeah.
• 25:20
  Not the Midas Touch. I mean, like the curse of
• 25:22
  it. No, it's Rain Man. The Midas Touch is everything
• 25:26
  turns to gold. Yeah, but the problem is then
• 25:28
  everything turns to gold. Oh, so the problem
• 25:29
  is everything is counted. Yeah. You count everything.
• 25:32
  So you can't stop counting. But no one ever asked
• 25:35
  for Asperger's. But people have asked for the
• 25:45
  Midas Touch. That's true. But then again, in
• 25:48
  the tale of the Midas Touch, isn't it... Like
• 25:52
  forced upon the individual? Minus? I think he's
• 25:57
  like, I want that. I want this. I want that.
• 26:02
  Speaking of wanting that. Who's the person that
• 26:06
  gives it to him? It's not Ebenezer. I can't remember
• 26:09
  the guy's name. It's been a while since I read
• 26:10
  that story. I feel like he starts with an E.
• 26:13
  Or maybe that's just what I'm thinking. I feel
• 26:15
  like Ebenezer Scrooge is like, no, give me the
• 26:17
  minus touch. I'm taking that back. Oh yeah, good
• 26:20
  point. That would be a better story. That should
• 26:23
  be interesting. Yeah, what's the little boy's
• 26:25
  name? Tiny Tim. Tiny Tim. Great elaboration.
• 26:31
  I'm trying to remember if this is right. I remember
• 26:33
  my dad telling me that one of the original, or
• 26:35
  one of the early drafts of Tiny Tim's name was
• 26:38
  puny Pete. That does sound more poor. Yeah, puny.
• 26:47
  And pee. Poor puny Pete. A little poor puny -peaty.
• 26:54
  Is there such thing as triple alliteration? Is
• 26:57
  alliteration only when it happens dose? No, I
• 27:00
  think it's like within the whole line. So every
• 27:04
  word in a sentence could be the same letter?
• 27:06
  Yeah. And it's still just alliteration? I think
• 27:08
  so. I mean, you gotta level up somehow. What,
• 27:12
  are you trying to do it easy? I mean, if I get
• 27:15
  five in a row, I should get extra points. Angry
• 27:18
  Angus, eight. Apples. Apples. Angrily. Argumentatively.
• 27:26
  Argumentatively? Arguably. No, I was gonna say
• 27:33
  as much. I mean, I guess as much as could be
• 27:37
  one word. A slant. It's like a slant. Alliteration.
• 27:40
  Now we're just hanging out. It's just different.
• 27:42
  Now we're just hanging out, Paul. So speaking
• 27:44
  of hanging out. That one didn't work at all.
• 27:47
  Paul and I were just hanging out. That one didn't
• 27:48
  work at all. Welcome to Mars Row where Paul and
• 27:51
  I just hang out. We just hang, welcome aboard.
• 27:54
  It's true though. It's the charm of this place.
• 27:56
  Yeah. It's these walls. It's the charm of the
• 27:59
  ecosphere that we're in. Welcome to the ecosphere.
• 28:02
  You've arrived. Ah, ah, ah, ah. I would say put
• 28:05
  an echo on that but don't do that. Imagine a
• 28:06
  hat that just says ecosphere. I can imagine it.
• 28:09
  Actually I feel like it would look really cool.
• 28:11
  Yeah, I don't disagree. I feel like no one would
• 28:13
  know how to pronounce it. Because I don't even
• 28:15
  know how to spell it. Oh yeah, it's kind of hard.
• 28:16
  Yeah, I haven't thought about it. Is it two C's?
• 28:18
  No, I think it would be, no, it would be like
• 28:20
  E -C -H -O -S. As like echo. Yeah, and then S
• 28:24
  -P -H -E -R -E. Yeah. Sphere? Sphere. Yeah, something
• 28:28
  like that. It actually doesn't look, it wouldn't
• 28:30
  look that weird. No, actually it'd look kind
• 28:33
  of nice. Yeah. Let's do it. Sweet. All right,
• 28:36
  see you later. First drop. Gonna go make a hat.
• 28:45
  Well, anyway, I've got a question for you. Okay.
• 28:48
  Where are we going in the cave tonight, Paul?
• 28:52
  Hello, hello. Or this morning, whatever time
• 28:54
  it is. 4 a .m. Somewhere. It's always 4 a .m.
• 28:57
  It's 4 a .m. somewhere. It's 4 a .m. somewhere.
• 29:02
  That's another shirt idea. It's 4 a .m. somewhere.
• 29:04
  It's 4 a .m. somewhere. That's not a bad idea.
• 29:06
  It's pretty good. That would sell for so many
• 29:08
  different reasons. It's so good. That's true.
• 29:11
  We have to brand it. They'd be like, why does
• 29:13
  that say Margeureux? The other part I understand,
• 29:15
  but I don't... That other... We just brand it
• 29:18
  without the words. So it's just a logo? Yeah,
• 29:22
  so anyway. So anyway, I got a question for you.
• 29:25
  Okay. So there's a word that we talk about a
• 29:31
  lot on here. There is? Yeah. We say this word.
• 29:35
  What category is the word? Biblical. I would
• 29:41
  have guessed that. I mean like grammatically.
• 29:45
  Grammatically. That's actually where my question
• 29:47
  lands. Okay. Yeah. Are you sure? No. Well good.
• 29:56
  That's why it's a question. That's why I'm so
• 29:58
  confused. So I'm just gonna ask the question.
• 30:02
  We're just gonna jump right into it. Do you want
• 30:04
  me to break it down grammatically after you ask
• 30:06
  it? That's kind of where I'm hoping you'd go.
• 30:10
  Okay. Go anywhere you want with it. I don't know.
• 30:12
  I like that. I just ask the questions. Okay.
• 30:16
  Israel. Okay. Land or people? Okay. So Israel's
• 30:26
  a proper noun. Possibly land location or is it
• 30:32
  an object? Yeah, oh, that's interesting Israel
• 30:36
  is it an object. We just make it an adjective
• 30:38
  proper noun. You've been Israel. Well, that's
• 30:42
  has some weird application Don't repeat that
• 30:47
  kids don't know Especially right now. Oh, no,
• 30:52
  we can't post this That's just for the reals.
• 30:59
  I mean, so that's like a which I feel like that's
• 31:03
  not what we haven't quite on martyrs row yet
• 31:06
  got into a place where we're talking about something
• 31:09
  that potentially is a headline. Yeah. You know
• 31:12
  what I mean? Yes, true. So like it is interesting
• 31:14
  that like as we have biblical conversations and
• 31:16
  we're dissecting things and looking at stuff
• 31:19
  that speaks into context and greater context
• 31:23
  and what's going on in the Bible and more like
• 31:27
  Sunday school adjacent conversations. This is
• 31:31
  one that is a Sunday school conversation, but
• 31:33
  it's happening more I think from the, if to use
• 31:36
  a locational Christian word, the pulpit. It's
• 31:43
  happening more there because I think it's a more
• 31:45
  relevant issue because Israel is like, it seems
• 31:49
  like we've kind of forgotten about the other
• 31:51
  wars that are still happening, and we've just
• 31:54
  kind of gone to the center of the world. It's
• 31:57
  a touchy word right now to use. It is. Yeah.
• 32:00
  And Israel is interesting because, so your question
• 32:03
  is land or people. Yeah. Which I think is the
• 32:08
  conversation that Christians, I think Christians
• 32:11
  potentially are maybe asking themselves for the
• 32:14
  first time. Yeah. Or a new generation is asking
• 32:19
  the question again. Yeah. Because of things going
• 32:25
  on. I like that question because I think one
• 32:29
  of the things that I forget about is like historical
• 32:34
  time lapses. So like breaks in time where I go
• 32:38
  like, all right, I know some of the biblical
• 32:41
  history of what or who Israel is, but I feel
• 32:46
  like I have huge gaps. Like what actually, like
• 32:51
  when did Israel start? What was its origin? who
• 32:55
  was its origin, and what is it doing right now?
• 33:00
  And how does that affect me as a Christian? So
• 33:03
  that's a big conversation. But I think there's
• 33:07
  actually an interesting discussion to be had
• 33:11
  around what, biblically, where does the word
• 33:18
  Israel come up, and what is it in reference to?
• 33:24
  I think the only place to start is actually Israel's
• 33:28
  dad. I like it. I love that. Which if Israel
• 33:32
  is land, that's weird. Yeah. Right? But also
• 33:35
  still true. Yeah. Which actually, it's funny
• 33:39
  you say that because that just makes you think
• 33:42
  of when we go to the table of nations. Right.
• 33:45
  I mean, we've talked about them, but I don't
• 33:48
  think we've ever actually said this, which is
• 33:49
  always funny to me. It was weird. learning, it's
• 33:52
  like, oh, Canaan, that was a person. Egypt, that
• 33:55
  was actually a person. That was someone's name.
• 33:58
  And it's like, oh yeah, originally they just
• 34:00
  named it after themselves, which is funny, because
• 34:02
  it's like, we don't not do that today. No, that's
• 34:05
  true. Yeah, I mean, there's a Martin Luther King
• 34:07
  drive in every city. Yeah, that's true. That's
• 34:12
  a good point. And also like being in America
• 34:15
  like well, I guess every province every region
• 34:17
  every state All of that stuff has origins named
• 34:20
  against something else. I mean, I mean even the
• 34:23
  word America is someone's name. Yeah America
• 34:26
  is someone's name Isn't that a female actor,
• 34:34
  oh is it I'm pretty sure yeah Superstore Well,
• 34:39
  anyways Wonder bread wonder bread. I'm just trying
• 34:43
  to work that back in Wonder is to bread as oh,
• 34:50
  that's it actually yeah as America is to Ferrera
• 34:55
  Superstore, it's a fun show. You should watch
• 34:58
  it. I've never seen it. Yeah, maybe ABC don't
• 35:00
  know doesn't matter. So let's go back to Genesis
• 35:05
  Let's go back to Genesis, where everything began.
• 35:08
  Yeah. It's like, I feel like that's what we always
• 35:11
  do. It's like, let's talk about something out
• 35:14
  of Jude. Great, Genesis. Here we go. Anyway.
• 35:18
  Which, I mean, to be fair, and this is kind of
• 35:20
  funny, that's what they did, too. That is absolutely
• 35:23
  what they did. And I love it. So we're following
• 35:25
  in the tradition of the biblical authors. Yeah.
• 35:27
  We didn't start this. We're just continuing it.
• 35:31
  We're continuing the fire. All right, so. Descendants
• 35:35
  of Noah one of the sons of Noah is Shem and Shem
• 35:39
  Has a Shem is a very important individual in
• 35:44
  the bloodline of Christ So that's a pretty important
• 35:48
  individual so I'm not gonna read his whole lineage
• 35:52
  because then everyone will fall asleep and No
• 35:55
  matter where you are now if you listen this podcast
• 35:57
  to fall asleep Maybe we should do that version
• 35:59
  of it. So like multiverse split, let's just read
• 36:02
  the genealogy. We should do like a private playlist.
• 36:08
  Martyrs row to fall asleep to. And it's just
• 36:10
  us reading genealogies in the Bible. They already
• 36:13
  have those though. You just like go to the Bible.
• 36:15
  But it's us doing it. Yeah, that's true. Oh yeah,
• 36:18
  sorry. We're trying to sell something. We need
• 36:20
  views. It's part of the ecosphere guys. So go
• 36:24
  to patreon .com slash. fall asleep to Paul and
• 36:27
  Stephen reading the Bible? Genesis one, one.
• 36:33
  Okay, continue. All right, so Genesis 11, this
• 36:37
  is the genealogy of Shem, and I'm gonna jump
• 36:39
  ahead to, when Nahor had lived 29 years, he fathered
• 36:43
  Terah, and Nahor lived after he fathered Terah
• 36:46
  119 years, and had other sons and daughters.
• 36:50
  Then Terah had lived 70 years, he fathered Abram,
• 36:53
  Nahor, and Haran. Now these are the generations
• 36:57
  of Terah. Terah fathered Abram, Nahor, and Haran,
• 37:01
  and Haran fathered Lot. Haran died in the presence
• 37:05
  of his father Terah, in the land of his kindred,
• 37:08
  in Ur of the Chaldeans. And Abram and Nahor took
• 37:11
  wives. The name of Abram's wife was Sarai, and
• 37:15
  the name of Nahor's wife, Milka, and the daughter
• 37:18
  of Haran, the father of Milka and Iska. Now,
• 37:22
  Sarai was barren. She had no child. Terah took
• 37:25
  Abram, his son, and Lot, the son of Heron, his
• 37:28
  grandson, and Sarai, his daughter -in -law, his
• 37:31
  son Abram's wife, and they went forth together
• 37:33
  from Ur of the Chaldeans to go into the land
• 37:35
  of Canaan. But when they came to Heron, they
• 37:38
  settled there. The days of Terah were 205 years,
• 37:42
  and Terah died in Heron. Now, going back to naming
• 37:47
  things after people, this gets super confusing
• 37:50
  because of the people's names. Yes. Because you're
• 37:54
  saying, all right, so Tara fathered Abram, Nahor,
• 37:57
  and Haron, but later they stop in Haron. Yeah.
• 38:02
  He's like, what? So is Haron a person or a place?
• 38:05
  A giant. That's what he is. Well, that's another
• 38:11
  episode. Three, two. Cut two. This is that episode.
• 38:18
  Oops, tricked ya. Uh oh. Yeah, and something
• 38:21
  interesting here, too, is like, Heron died in
• 38:25
  the presence of his father, Terah, in the land
• 38:26
  of his kindred, in Ur of the Chaldeans. So, Heron
• 38:30
  died where Terah's kin was, which is Ur of the
• 38:36
  Chaldeans. And then Abram and Nahor took wives.
• 38:38
  So, Terah took Abram, his son, and Lot, the son
• 38:41
  of Heron, his grandson, and Sarai, daughter -in
• 38:44
  -law, and they went up, actually they went down,
• 38:48
  because Where they were was, they were in Ur
• 38:57
  of the Chaldeans. Where they were is northern
• 39:01
  Mesopotamia, which would be southern Turkey.
• 39:05
  So, locationally where they are is north of modern
• 39:09
  Israel. So they're up in Turkey, which we've
• 39:12
  talked about that. I think exile in Turkey, something
• 39:15
  like that. We had a whole episode on that. We
• 39:16
  did. That is actually in the past. It is in the
• 39:19
  past. We've been there before. So the interesting
• 39:23
  thing here is where they are is at the top end
• 39:27
  of Mesopotamia. And it's southern Turkey, modern
• 39:32
  day. So they start moving down, and their goal
• 39:36
  is to go into the land of Canaan. and as they're
• 39:41
  coming down, they stop in Haran and they never
• 39:46
  actually make it to the land of Canaan. So then
• 39:50
  we go from there and we go, okay, well, now Abram,
• 39:55
  who is part of Tara's house, is it Tara or Nahor?
• 40:03
  Why do I always get that messed up? It's Tara.
• 40:08
  Yeah, Tara, who lived 70 years and fathered Abram,
• 40:11
  Nahor, and Haran. So Abram, at this point, Abram
• 40:16
  is with his dad and his brothers and their wives,
• 40:21
  and then Haran has died. And then they move down
• 40:27
  out of the land of Ur, where they were from,
• 40:30
  and they're moving towards the land of Canaan.
• 40:32
  So this is Genesis 11. Tara is moving his family,
• 40:37
  which includes Abram, down to the land of Canaan.
• 40:41
  So interesting right off the bat, right? And
• 40:45
  then what you have is they stop in Heron. They
• 40:51
  don't make it to the land of Canaan. So they're
• 40:53
  coming down. And then Genesis 12, one, it says,
• 40:55
  now the Lord said to Abram, go from your country
• 40:58
  and your kindred and your father's house to the
• 41:01
  land that I will show you. Now. His country where
• 41:04
  he was at the time was Heron. And I will make
• 41:08
  of you a great nation and I will bless you and
• 41:10
  make your name great so that you will be a blessing.
• 41:13
  I love that though. Because what God says to
• 41:16
  him is I'm gonna make you great so that you can
• 41:19
  be a blessing. Which there's a whole message
• 41:22
  in that. But anyways, so but maybe I should stop
• 41:29
  for a second and just say as a side note that
• 41:32
  what God says to him is go to this land, and
• 41:37
  I'm gonna make you a great nation so that you
• 41:39
  can be a blessing. So the purpose of Abram going
• 41:45
  to this land was to be a blessing to other people,
• 41:50
  which is pretty critical when we continue the
• 41:54
  conversation. So verse three. chapter 12, I will
• 41:59
  bless those who bless you and him who dishonors
• 42:02
  you I will curse and in you all the families
• 42:04
  of the earth shall be blessed. So Abram went
• 42:07
  as the Lord had told him and Lot went with him.
• 42:10
  Abram was 75 years old when he departed from
• 42:12
  Haran and Abram took Sarai his wife and Lot his
• 42:16
  brother's son and all their possessions that
• 42:18
  they had gathered and the people that they had
• 42:20
  acquired in Haran and they set out to go to the
• 42:23
  land of Canaan. When they came to the land of
• 42:25
  Canaan, Abram passed through the land to the
• 42:28
  place of Shechem, to the oak of Morah. At that
• 42:32
  time the Canaanites were in the land. Then the
• 42:35
  Lord appeared to Abram and said, To your offspring
• 42:37
  I will give this land, speaking about the land
• 42:40
  of Canaan. So he built there an altar to the
• 42:44
  Lord who had appeared to him. From there he moved
• 42:46
  to the hill country on the east of Bethel and
• 42:50
  pitched his tent. With Bethel on the West and
• 42:53
  AI on the on the East which that's always weird
• 42:56
  to me. Yes Because yeah, I don't know how to
• 43:00
  pronounce that You could just say like I I guess
• 43:03
  but that's even weirder. I know so Oh no, the
• 43:09
  beginning of AI. On the west and AI on the east.
• 43:13
  I'm just gonna keep calling it that. It'll confuse
• 43:16
  people. It'll add to the algorithm. And there
• 43:19
  he built an altar to the Lord and called upon
• 43:21
  the name of the Lord. And Abram journeyed on
• 43:23
  still going toward the Negev. Now the Negev is
• 43:27
  south, like currently still they call it that
• 43:31
  in Israel. It's southern Israel, the land. of
• 43:35
  Israel. It's southern Israel and again it's like
• 43:38
  the desert land on the south end. So now this
• 43:42
  is very interesting because what we get is we're
• 43:48
  not talking about Israel. Israel is not a thing
• 43:51
  yet but the land of Canaan is a thing. So the
• 43:55
  land of Canaan does exist and the land of Canaan
• 43:59
  is this space where modern -day Israel is and
• 44:06
  it's technically it's west of Mesopotamia. They
• 44:11
  exist at the same time. So it's interesting.
• 44:14
  So then he comes down and he's moving into this
• 44:17
  space and then he moves down into the land of
• 44:21
  Canaan or he comes up to the land of Canaan.
• 44:24
  And it says, now there was a famine in the land,
• 44:27
  so Abram went down to Egypt to sojourn there,
• 44:29
  for the famine was severe in the land. When he
• 44:32
  was about to enter Egypt, he said to Sarai, his
• 44:34
  wife, and this whole thing is basically, this
• 44:37
  next part of the story is like, they come all
• 44:40
  the way through what's modern day Israel, all
• 44:43
  the way down into Egypt, right? So they're the
• 44:46
  first ones to make this move out of Turkey. So
• 44:49
  when we talk about like Turkey, and we talk about
• 44:52
  the exile out of Turkey, Yahweh calls Abram away
• 44:59
  from Haran, and Haran wasn't the intended landing
• 45:05
  spot. So even though God calls Abram to the land
• 45:10
  of Canaan, technically, Terah, his dad, was already
• 45:15
  gonna move his family into the land of Canaan.
• 45:19
  That kind of tells you in some context that those
• 45:23
  two, where they were from and what the land of
• 45:27
  Canaan represents, they were probably somewhat
• 45:30
  like -minded. We both like that. You know what
• 45:34
  I mean? No, in the sense that it doesn't sound
• 45:39
  like Terra was like, this is a hostile land.
• 45:42
  Not until you get Abram coming in and God saying,
• 45:46
  hey, I'm gonna give you this land. do you actually
• 45:49
  get this like, okay, we're gonna take over this
• 45:52
  land at some point or it's going to be given
• 45:55
  to us, right? And then they move down into Egypt.
• 46:00
  And so lots of stuff at that point happens. And
• 46:04
  then it's interesting because as you get that
• 46:07
  move from there, so Heron, The city where Abram
• 46:11
  lived with his family before continuing his journey
• 46:13
  to Canaan is located in modern -day Turkey, we
• 46:16
  talked about this, near the border of Syria,
• 46:18
  specifically as identified with the modern city
• 46:20
  of Haran. Haran, spelled slightly different,
• 46:23
  situated in the southeastern Anatolia region
• 46:26
  of Turkey. In the biblical narrative, Haran is
• 46:29
  described as a city in Mesopotamia where Abram's
• 46:32
  father, Terah, died. So, yeah, okay, so then
• 46:37
  a bunch of stuff happens. Right? Yes. Lots of
• 46:40
  things happen. And then you get this whole story
• 46:43
  of Isaac, who is the son to Abram, and Abram
• 46:48
  and Sarai, who God then changes their name to
• 46:52
  Abraham and Sarah. Yes. We've talked about that.
• 46:56
  Yeah. What the differences in their names are.
• 46:58
  Also a past episode. Yes. Look at us go. Wonder
• 47:01
  bread. So again, we keep coming back to Genesis.
• 47:05
  Yeah. Wonder bread. Yeah, so as we keep coming
• 47:12
  back, it's like, you get back to the space and
• 47:14
  you're, all right, there's all this stuff around
• 47:16
  the land of Canaan. You have Abram, and this
• 47:19
  is all post -flood, post -Tower of Babel, and
• 47:22
  these people are in Mesopotamia, so Abram grows
• 47:26
  up in Mesopotamia. He was in Ur, and then moved
• 47:31
  down to Heron, but still part of Mesopotamia.
• 47:35
  And in these spaces, Mesopotamia is like, again,
• 47:40
  we talked about in our myth series, their creation
• 47:42
  stories and all of the pantheon of gods that
• 47:45
  they worship. And arguably, that's probably been
• 47:47
  our biggest conversation with people in general
• 47:50
  and conversations and comments and things like
• 47:53
  that, is around the idea that like, hey, did
• 47:56
  you know that there were creation stories before
• 47:58
  the Bible? And it's like, yeah. And Abraham knew
• 48:02
  him. Yes. Abraham knew him, right? He would have
• 48:05
  grown up with those traditions. What's their
• 48:09
  creation? I'm gonna call you off guard. Oh, you're
• 48:13
  talking about Marduk and Dima? Yes. Yeah. You
• 48:17
  want to tell me a little about that? I mean...
• 48:20
  If it helps. Oh wait, or what episode is it on?
• 48:24
  That's in our Myth series, which, man, are we
• 48:26
  gonna link all these? There's a lot of episodes
• 48:27
  to link. I guess we have to keep going back to
• 48:29
  it. Just rewatch all of our episodes again, and
• 48:32
  you will find it. Yes. Yeah, so then what we
• 48:37
  get is basically the story of Abram and Sarai,
• 48:41
  and they move down into Egypt. They're down there
• 48:43
  during a famine. And then God promises. Promise
• 48:47
  that promises them a child in their old age.
• 48:50
  Yeah, and then they they basically try and do
• 48:52
  it at their own way And then that's the birth
• 48:55
  of Ishmael Could you imagine that being called
• 48:57
  your old age when your grandfather lived to 200?
• 49:01
  Oh, yeah, I guess Which is so funny. It's like
• 49:04
  imagine like having a midlife crisis at a hundred
• 49:07
  and six. Yeah but then again like But still if
• 49:11
  you're 50, yeah, and you're having a kid like
• 49:14
  that's yeah Like that's modern day old age. People
• 49:18
  are like, whoa. You know what I mean? Yeah, it's
• 49:21
  true. But also, yeah, specifically if you're,
• 49:24
  but I guess, I think they were like 10 years
• 49:26
  apart or something like that. So it would be
• 49:30
  like if Abram was 50 and Sarah was 40. Okay,
• 49:35
  yeah. But we can't even do those equivalents
• 49:37
  because it's not like all of a sudden we live
• 49:40
  half of their life in the body ages equivalent.
• 49:43
  We don't know any of that. We don't. Yeah, that's
• 49:46
  all speculation. There are a lot of questions
• 49:49
  inside of there. But what the Bible does say
• 49:51
  is that, or at least what she says is, I'm past
• 49:53
  my time. Yes. So we do know, regardless of what
• 49:57
  age she actually might be, or however we want
• 49:59
  to, how body adjusts and changes, it's like,
• 50:02
  we know that regardless, she was past her childbearing
• 50:05
  years. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, okay, so then we get
• 50:09
  this story in, and then you have Isaac and then
• 50:11
  Ishmael. and Ishmael is basically banished. It's
• 50:15
  Abram and Sarah basically going, hey, God said
• 50:20
  we could do it, well then let's make it happen,
• 50:24
  right? Because, yeah, I mean, in reality, that's
• 50:29
  probably something that made sense to them. It's
• 50:32
  how their culture was set up from where they
• 50:36
  came. And it's like the logical side is like,
• 50:37
  well, if this is gonna happen, then I guess this
• 50:40
  is how we do it. Yeah, it makes the most logical
• 50:43
  sense. This is how it would happen. Yeah. Yeah
• 50:45
  So then that's where you kind of get like arguably
• 50:48
  historically and biblically. That's where you
• 50:50
  get kind of the split and the split off between
• 50:54
  like Islam and yeah and All I can think of is
• 51:00
  Hebrew Israelite Yeah, like Judaism Judaism.
• 51:05
  Yeah. Yeah, so so Islam and Judaism kind of split
• 51:08
  there between Isaac and Ishmael. Yeah But the
• 51:11
  Lord says he'll bless Ishmael. And then he also
• 51:15
  curses him. He is cursed, and then he also blesses
• 51:19
  him. They're gonna be at war. I think is what
• 51:22
  it says. Yeah, exactly. So then Isaac goes on.
• 51:30
  You have Isaac who then grows old, and he has
• 51:34
  sons, and he has Jacob and Esau. And we talked
• 51:39
  about this. Again with the names. Yeah. Yeah,
• 51:43
  because Jacob gets his name from holding the
• 51:45
  heel of his brother. Yes And then Esau gets his
• 51:49
  name because his hair is red Which is a little
• 51:52
  bit like is he a giant does he have a nipple
• 51:55
  in blood? Imagine like being so hairy that your
• 52:00
  brother has to put a dead animal on him to convince
• 52:03
  his father And it works? Like that's the crazy
• 52:07
  thing. He's like, that's my boy. Oh man, they
• 52:15
  must have been so dirty back in the day. Oof.
• 52:19
  Although I don't know. There was stuff they knew
• 52:22
  that we just will never know about. Yeah. But,
• 52:26
  okay, so. Just get one, like one sniff of what
• 52:28
  it smelled like then. So then you have Jacob
• 52:30
  and Esau and you have this whole story, right?
• 52:33
  And so. I'm just jumping through it because this
• 52:35
  is not a, you know, that's not really what we're
• 52:37
  doing. But you jump through. So you get Abraham,
• 52:41
  whose father wants to take them down to him and
• 52:45
  his sons out of Mesopotamia into the land of
• 52:47
  Canaan. Doesn't make it. They stay in Heron.
• 52:49
  He dies. And then God calls Abraham out, even
• 52:54
  though, you know, that is the thing that like,
• 52:57
  I don't know that we actually know that. I would
• 52:59
  love if somebody knows about this and wants to
• 53:02
  send this study, but to be able to know what
• 53:05
  did, we just have to assume that Abram would
• 53:09
  have been part of the culture of Mesopotamia,
• 53:13
  and just would have worshiped those gods. Yeah,
• 53:16
  which I think is fair to assume that. We have
• 53:17
  some indication of that, especially in some of
• 53:20
  the practices that, even to the sacrifice of
• 53:25
  Isaac, it's like, It was hard for him and that
• 53:28
  expresses that but it's not something he hasn't
• 53:31
  seen before Right and that I think that's hard
• 53:33
  thing for people to grasp Yeah, cuz I mean we've
• 53:36
  we've touched on this before a little bit in
• 53:38
  previous episodes but it's like it is it seems
• 53:41
  like it's this is coming at that point where
• 53:44
  You know applying the Deuteronomy 32 idea where
• 53:47
  it's like yeah, there were these these As Daniel
• 53:51
  calls them these watchers right they were set
• 53:54
  to help people and they're like yeah except for
• 53:56
  Watchers turn and said I want the worship for
• 53:59
  myself. Yeah, and so and that we talked about
• 54:01
  this in this series where it's like Yeah, it's
• 54:03
  kind of we've seen this shift where truth is
• 54:06
  being adjusted To the benefit of the of these
• 54:09
  false gods. Yeah And so I think it would make
• 54:13
  sense as like Yahweh seeing this he's like, you
• 54:15
  know what? Let me deal with this. Yeah, it's
• 54:18
  gone too far. Yeah, and then that's where we
• 54:21
  have this Abraham story come in Yeah, and he's
• 54:23
  like hey, I'm gonna pull you out of that, right?
• 54:24
  I'm going to show you the truth. Yeah. Yeah.
• 54:28
  So but in some ways he's he's a sojourner, which
• 54:31
  is. Yeah. Which is it kind of becomes like that's
• 54:36
  the thing is like Abraham now is somebody without
• 54:39
  a land like in that way, he becomes someone who
• 54:43
  doesn't have a home. Yeah. Because his home is
• 54:46
  to come. Right. He tries to go into the land
• 54:49
  of Canaan and then he has to continue down to
• 54:51
  the Negev. And then he moves past the Negev because
• 54:53
  of the Famine he ends up in Egypt. Yeah, right
• 54:57
  And then he ends up like he ends up a sojourner
• 55:00
  in that land and then that becomes the story
• 55:03
  of Israel. Yes that they don't have a land right
• 55:08
  and and so then you jump ahead to Jacob and Jacob
• 55:13
  is the grandson of Abraham Abraham his dad is
• 55:17
  Isaac who's the promised son of Abraham and Jacob
• 55:23
  Goes through all of these things he and his brother
• 55:26
  butt heads and because he stole his birthright
• 55:28
  he runs away Birthright all this stuff. There's
• 55:32
  a lot of important things Yes, but jumping ahead
• 55:35
  to this moment where Jacob all of that stuff
• 55:37
  is is kind of behind him They're separated. He's
• 55:40
  separated from Esau right now and kind of on
• 55:42
  the run a little bit And doing his his own thing
• 55:45
  and then he he comes to this He comes to this
• 55:49
  place He crosses the four of the Jabak. He took
• 55:56
  them and sent them across the stream and everything
• 55:58
  else that he had and Jacob was left alone. And
• 56:01
  a man wrestled with him until the breaking of
• 56:03
  the day. What I love is, it says, so Jacob is
• 56:08
  on the run. He's on the run from Esau. And he
• 56:11
  sends his family off in a different direction
• 56:13
  and then he's by himself. And then it just goes,
• 56:16
  and a man wrestled with him until the breaking
• 56:18
  of the day. What? Boys in their rough housing.
• 56:24
  But the verse before that says, and Jacob was
• 56:26
  left alone. Yeah. Period. And a man wrestled
• 56:29
  with him until the breaking of the day. What?
• 56:32
  I just don't I don't like I don't know why we
• 56:34
  then go. All right. And then when the man saw
• 56:36
  that he checks out. Wait, hang on. He was left
• 56:40
  alone and a man wrestled with him. Who's the
• 56:42
  man? Why? I thought he was left alone. Not left
• 56:45
  alone. Yeah. He was left alone by the others.
• 56:47
  But then for some reason, there's a man there.
• 56:49
  And when the man saw that he did not prevail
• 56:52
  against Jacob, he touched his hip socket, and
• 56:54
  Jacob's hip was put out of joint as he wrestled
• 56:57
  with him. Then he said, Let me go, for the day
• 57:00
  has broken. But Jacob said, I will not let you
• 57:04
  go unless you bless me. And he said to him, What
• 57:06
  is your name? And he said, Jacob. Then he said,
• 57:10
  Your name shall no longer be called Jacob, but
• 57:12
  Israel, for you have striven with God and with
• 57:16
  men. and have prevailed. So what does Israel
• 57:19
  mean? It means one who wrestles with God. So
• 57:24
  Jacob gets the name Israel, and this is the first
• 57:27
  time that we see this. And the reason why is
• 57:30
  because he was left alone and then a man wrestled
• 57:32
  him. And then the man couldn't beat him, so has
• 57:37
  to put his hip out of socket. And then when that
• 57:40
  happens, then the man wants to leave because
• 57:43
  it's daybreak. I'm not I'm there's there's significance
• 57:50
  to that. Yeah, but yes, we won't go into all
• 57:53
  that but then he's like no, you're going to bless
• 57:56
  me There's something like Jacobs like I at this
• 58:01
  point you owe me something Yeah And he says okay,
• 58:06
  you know your name will no longer be Jacob it'll
• 58:08
  be Israel and that was satisfying for Jacob Yeah,
• 58:11
  so you go. Yeah, what does that mean it well?
• 58:14
  It's in the description. You wrestle with God
• 58:16
  and man. So in the blessing, the man is telling
• 58:22
  Jacob who he's just wrestled with, which is kind
• 58:26
  of cool. That is cool. Again, there's way more
• 58:29
  to unpack there. It's true. And it's funny because
• 58:31
  in my head, when I think about that, it's like,
• 58:34
  all right, was he out in the middle of nowhere?
• 58:37
  Or was there like a wine bar nearby? Oh, right.
• 58:39
  And he's like, everyone left me alone. It's wine
• 58:42
  o 'clock. And then he gets into this bar fight.
• 58:47
  We don't have that image, but I just like to
• 58:50
  imagine. Yeah. OK, so let me connect these dots
• 58:54
  and then we'll jump way ahead. We'll jump way
• 58:57
  into this. OK, because this is kind of the important
• 59:00
  thing because really we go, all right, well,
• 59:02
  where's the first time we see the name Israel?
• 59:04
  It's a person. It's not a place. Yeah. Because
• 59:08
  the place that they are, is different depending
• 59:13
  on what's going on, right? So what we see here
• 59:16
  then is, so that's Genesis 32, Jacob becomes
• 59:21
  Israel. And then after that he meets up with
• 59:23
  his brother Esau and they reconcile. There's
• 59:27
  grace given, there's things done, and they reconcile
• 59:30
  that. And then it goes on in Genesis 35 and it
• 59:33
  says, God said to Jacob, starting in verse one,
• 59:36
  arise, go up to Bethel, and dwell there. Now.
• 59:42
  We've heard Bethel before. Where have we heard
• 59:47
  Bethel before? Well, we talked about old Jeroboam,
• 59:51
  wasn't it? No, Abram. We talked about him too.
• 59:56
  But I mean, with Bethel, that's where we see
• 59:58
  it later in scripture. Yeah, yeah. Is where we've
• 1:00:00
  talked about it. I'm going back. Oh, you're still
• 1:00:02
  trying to connect episodes. Yeah. Okay. So yeah,
• 1:00:08
  that's past, episode, future in the Bible. But
• 1:00:11
  from what we're talking about, jump back. Jump
• 1:00:17
  back a little bit. And we have Bethel. So Bethel
• 1:00:20
  is the place where, back in Genesis chapter 12.
• 1:00:30
  Sorry, was it chapter 12? Yes, they go down.
• 1:00:35
  and from there he moved, this is 12 verse 8,
• 1:00:38
  from there he moved to the hill country on the
• 1:00:40
  east of Bethel and pitched his tent with Bethel
• 1:00:43
  on the west and Ai on the east and there he built
• 1:00:45
  an altar to the Lord. So Abram coming out of
• 1:00:49
  Haran makes his way down into the land of Canaan
• 1:00:52
  and in the land of Canaan is Bethel which is
• 1:00:55
  to the west and Ai is to the east and there he
• 1:01:00
  built an altar to the Lord. So Abram has built
• 1:01:02
  an altar to the Lord. And now his grandson, Jacob,
• 1:01:07
  who now has been called Israel, was told by God
• 1:01:10
  to go to Bethel. So Abram has already made, has
• 1:01:15
  already gone there. And he left an altar. He
• 1:01:18
  left an altar. So Abram leaves an altar there,
• 1:01:21
  and then we go further to Genesis 35, and God
• 1:01:25
  says to go to Bethel and dwell there. Make an
• 1:01:28
  altar there to the God who appeared to you when
• 1:01:31
  you fled. from your brother Esau. So Abram is
• 1:01:37
  told go to the land of Canaan and where he makes
• 1:01:42
  an altar to the Lord for the first time coming
• 1:01:44
  down is Bethel. And then two generations later
• 1:01:49
  when Jacob wrestles with God, his name changes
• 1:01:57
  to Israel and then Jacob is told to go to Bethel.
• 1:02:01
  and make an altar to God. So Abraham, Jacob,
• 1:02:07
  make an altar to God in Bethel. Do you think
• 1:02:11
  there are any remnants of Abram's altar that
• 1:02:15
  he already built? When he gets there? So like,
• 1:02:18
  Jacob, Israel gets there, he's like, ah, a little
• 1:02:22
  head start. Well, God still calls him Jacob.
• 1:02:24
  Oh, I like that idea. He shows up, he's like,
• 1:02:27
  oh, look at that. Yeah, and there's a sign overhead
• 1:02:29
  that says, Abrams altar kit. Some assembly required.
• 1:02:41
  That would be awesome. So, okay, so Jacob said
• 1:02:45
  to his household and to all who were with him,
• 1:02:47
  put away the foreign gods that are among you
• 1:02:49
  and purify yourselves and change your garments.
• 1:02:52
  Then let us arise and go up to Bethel so that
• 1:02:55
  I may make there an altar to the God who answers
• 1:02:59
  me in the day of my distress and has been with
• 1:03:01
  me wherever I have gone. So they gave to Jacob
• 1:03:04
  all the foreign gods that they had and the rings
• 1:03:07
  that were in their ears. Jacob hid them under
• 1:03:10
  the terebinth tree that was near Shechem. And
• 1:03:14
  as they journeyed, a terror from God fell upon
• 1:03:16
  the cities that were around them, so that they
• 1:03:19
  did not pursue the sons of Jacob. And Jacob came
• 1:03:22
  to Luz, that is Bethel, which is in the land
• 1:03:25
  of Canaan. He and all the people who were with
• 1:03:28
  him. And there he built an altar and called the
• 1:03:31
  place El Bethel, because there God had revealed
• 1:03:34
  himself to him when he fled from his brother.
• 1:03:38
  And then you have all of this break down there,
• 1:03:41
  and then it jumps ahead and says, God appeared
• 1:03:42
  to Jacob again when he came from Paddan Aram.
• 1:03:46
  And Paddan Aram is Haran. Like it's the same
• 1:03:52
  area. Because even here, I looked that up, but
• 1:03:56
  also, God appeared to Jacob again when he came
• 1:03:59
  from Paddan Aram. So it's referencing that when...
• 1:04:04
  Like God appeared to Jacob again when he came
• 1:04:06
  from. So that means that Jacob was in Haran.
• 1:04:09
  Interesting. Or Haran is what I was saying. Yeah,
• 1:04:12
  yeah. Paden Aram. Haran. So is that like an equivalent
• 1:04:18
  name or is that a specific part of it? Yeah,
• 1:04:24
  it's like, I forget what it is exactly, but it's
• 1:04:29
  an equivalent name. Okay, so basically another
• 1:04:32
  language is word for that same place. Yeah, it's
• 1:04:34
  just the word used there in Hebrew is slightly
• 1:04:37
  different, but it's referencing the same location.
• 1:04:40
  Okay. And God said to him, your name is Jacob.
• 1:04:44
  No longer shall your name be called Jacob, but
• 1:04:47
  Israel shall be your name. So he called his name
• 1:04:50
  Israel. So he called him that in Genesis 32.
• 1:04:54
  That, but the man who wrestled with him. Yeah.
• 1:04:58
  And then in Genesis 35, when he makes the altar
• 1:05:02
  in Bethel and he gets rid of all the foreign
• 1:05:04
  gods, God says again to him, so he called his
• 1:05:09
  name Israel. And God said to him, I am God Almighty,
• 1:05:12
  be fruitful and multiply. A nation and a company
• 1:05:16
  of nations shall come from you and kings shall
• 1:05:19
  come from your own body. The land that I gave
• 1:05:21
  to Abraham and Isaac I will give to you and I
• 1:05:24
  will give you the land to your offspring after
• 1:05:27
  you. Then God went up from him in the place where
• 1:05:30
  he had spoken with him. And Jacob set up a pillar
• 1:05:33
  in the place where he had spoken with him, a
• 1:05:35
  pillar of stone. He poured out a drink offering
• 1:05:37
  on it and poured oil on it. So Jacob called the
• 1:05:40
  name of the place where God had spoken with him,
• 1:05:43
  Bethel. So it's interesting there because what
• 1:05:46
  he does is he echoes Genesis 3. Yes. Be fruitful
• 1:05:53
  and multiply. Yeah. He echoes the original intent
• 1:05:59
  of humanity. Be fruitful and multiply. And then
• 1:06:04
  a nation and a company of nations shall come
• 1:06:06
  from you, and kings shall come from your own
• 1:06:08
  body. So it's this interesting thing where this
• 1:06:12
  happens in Bethel, and this is the land that
• 1:06:16
  was promised to Abram, then promised to Isaac,
• 1:06:19
  then promised to Jacob, who becomes Israel. none
• 1:06:26
  of them end up in occupying the land of Canaan,
• 1:06:33
  which is fascinating. They keep wrestling with
• 1:06:37
  God. They keep not being able to be in that space.
• 1:06:41
  They keep being sojourners. They keep moving
• 1:06:44
  in and out of that space. Which is like, it is
• 1:06:47
  a fascinating idea then. So basically, they just
• 1:06:51
  accepted this idea and they're like, oh, we're
• 1:06:52
  the Israelites, even though It's like Israel
• 1:06:56
  never had a nation of his own, never had a land
• 1:06:59
  of his own. It's an interesting idea. Yeah, and
• 1:07:03
  then the cool thing is where Bethel is is pretty
• 1:07:11
  critical as well. So technically where Bethel
• 1:07:15
  is, is in the, do you know this? It's like in
• 1:07:22
  the West Bank area. So it's like northwest. Like
• 1:07:27
  if you were looking at Jerusalem, it's northwest
• 1:07:29
  of Jerusalem. So that's the, yeah. And then Jacob's
• 1:07:36
  Well is located in Nablus, West Bank. And there's
• 1:07:43
  a church, Jacob's Well, an Eastern Orthodox site.
• 1:07:47
  It's also where Jesus meets the woman in John
• 1:07:49
  4. The well there that Jacob makes is a 16 hour
• 1:07:58
  walk to Jerusalem. Wow. South. So all of this
• 1:08:03
  stuff is in northern modern day Israel. Okay.
• 1:08:07
  Yeah. It's up in the land of, that would eventually
• 1:08:10
  be Samaria. Yeah. So, okay. So all of these things,
• 1:08:16
  we're kind of getting to like, all right, right
• 1:08:17
  now, Israel is a person. not a land, but the
• 1:08:23
  person was promised a land. So we go person or
• 1:08:29
  land. Well, this person was promised a land.
• 1:08:33
  You know who else was promised a land? Abraham.
• 1:08:36
  You know who else was promised a land? Isaac.
• 1:08:39
  You know who else was promised a land? Jacob.
• 1:08:41
  Now Jacob becomes Israel and he has all of the,
• 1:08:45
  he has this nation. that's being birthed from
• 1:08:48
  him, right? And where does Abraham come from?
• 1:08:52
  Terah, and then he's a descendant of Shem, who's
• 1:08:55
  a descendant of Noah, right? So you get this
• 1:08:59
  movement down and you're like, all right, even
• 1:09:02
  from there, it's like all of these things are
• 1:09:04
  established, but they're sojourning. They're
• 1:09:07
  not landing anywhere. There's something special
• 1:09:11
  about the land of modern day Israel. And even
• 1:09:15
  in this, Where is Abraham sent? You could say
• 1:09:20
  that he's sent to the land of Canaan. You could
• 1:09:23
  also say he's sent out of Mesopotamia. So both
• 1:09:27
  of these things are true. So moving away from
• 1:09:32
  what was the dominant culture into another space
• 1:09:37
  that God said he was gonna give them. So it's
• 1:09:40
  kind of interesting to think about it that way
• 1:09:41
  as well. I actually like that perspective of
• 1:09:45
  it. Think especially because we don't see him
• 1:09:48
  even land in Canaan. He actually passes it. Yeah,
• 1:09:52
  and he goes down to Egypt Yeah, so it's like
• 1:09:53
  I think it is more appropriate to say he was
• 1:09:55
  actually taken out or sent out of Mesopotamia
• 1:09:58
  and he wasn't sent into anywhere in particular
• 1:10:02
  Right. Well and and something that you'll that
• 1:10:06
  if you look at later It says Abram was trying
• 1:10:11
  to land in the region of the Negev And then the
• 1:10:15
  Negev is the south region of the modern Israel.
• 1:10:18
  It's the desert region. And there's a Hebron,
• 1:10:22
  there's a huge valley called the Hebron Valley.
• 1:10:25
  And the Hebron Valley is like, it is a massive,
• 1:10:30
  I've never been to the Grand Canyon, but it's
• 1:10:33
  a canyon. And you walk up the side of it and
• 1:10:36
  the walls of that canyon. Have flint rock in
• 1:10:41
  them. So they're like lined with like black lines
• 1:10:44
  through the walls of the Canon Canyon It's a
• 1:10:47
  really cool area. But the interesting thing about
• 1:10:50
  that is in the Negev And I forget the guy's name
• 1:10:55
  that actually bothers me but in the Negev is
• 1:10:59
  where Modern -day Israel The beginning of the
• 1:11:06
  state of Israel began to be occupied So in the
• 1:11:10
  land and in the area of Hebron, where Abram was
• 1:11:14
  buried, that's where, in the Negev, that's where,
• 1:11:20
  oh, what is his name? Anyways, in the early 1900s,
• 1:11:25
  you get this movement from there, and then the
• 1:11:28
  Zionists that move up in and eventually make
• 1:11:31
  Israel a nation in 1948, they started from the
• 1:11:36
  south and moved back up. Which is interesting
• 1:11:40
  because Abram makes his way down through, stops
• 1:11:47
  in Bethel, goes down into the Negev, and then
• 1:11:51
  goes into Egypt. And then he goes back up. And
• 1:11:56
  then Jacob comes down, and he goes to Bethel,
• 1:12:00
  and then he goes, he keeps going. And then what
• 1:12:04
  happens is, everybody ends up going through the
• 1:12:07
  land, stopping in Egypt, and then coming back
• 1:12:10
  up to the middle. Everyone keeps coming from
• 1:12:13
  the north, down to Egypt, and then back up to
• 1:12:16
  the middle. It happens over and over again. You
• 1:12:18
  see the Israelite people do the same thing out
• 1:12:21
  of Egypt led by Moses, right? So it just keeps
• 1:12:24
  happening over and over again. It's one of those
• 1:12:26
  where it's like, if you really wanna like...
• 1:12:28
  There's a story you want to go to but you're
• 1:12:30
  like, I'm not sure you just keep walking past
• 1:12:33
  it. Yeah There's like a nice land you got there
• 1:12:37
  but to be fair in the story in Genesis 35 Yeah,
• 1:12:41
  it says that that the Lord brought a great fear
• 1:12:44
  over the land of Canaan that Jacob and his men
• 1:12:46
  could walk through without being disturbed. Mm
• 1:12:49
  -hmm. So yeah, so there's this idea that the
• 1:12:53
  land of Canaan is not a it's a great place to
• 1:12:56
  settle because the inhabitants are hostile. And
• 1:13:01
  we see that all the way through. And so one of
• 1:13:04
  the things I was thinking about is this. All
• 1:13:06
  right, so that's like the biblical breakdown
• 1:13:09
  of the origin of that. And then I'm gonna quickly
• 1:13:11
  run through a couple of things because I think
• 1:13:13
  this is interesting. And then we gotta keep going
• 1:13:17
  with on a future episode on like what the implications
• 1:13:22
  of that. is for Christians, I think. Because
• 1:13:25
  I think we're at a good set up right now. Yeah.
• 1:13:27
  Yeah. So, okay, so one of the things I think
• 1:13:30
  we don't think about is, all right, so really
• 1:13:34
  what we're talking about in general is the land
• 1:13:37
  of Canaan. So as far as the beginning of Israel
• 1:13:40
  is concerned, they're looking at the land of
• 1:13:43
  Canaan. So it's estimated that the indigenous
• 1:13:47
  Canaanite people were Bronze Age, We're in the
• 1:13:52
  Bronze Age. So they say that potentially around
• 1:13:55
  3 ,500 BC Is when the Canaanite people were in
• 1:14:00
  that region so and something to note is that
• 1:14:06
  Canaanites are the indigenous people of the land
• 1:14:09
  of Canaan But were never a unified ethnic group
• 1:14:12
  nor did they worship the same gods in the same
• 1:14:15
  way The term Canaanites is used to refer to the
• 1:14:18
  people who lived in the land of Canaan, but it
• 1:14:20
  is unknown whether these people all shared a
• 1:14:22
  common language or worldview. Interesting. The
• 1:14:25
  Phoenicians, for example, were Canaanites, but
• 1:14:29
  not all Canaanites were Phoenicians. That's very
• 1:14:31
  interesting. So the land of Canaan is actually
• 1:14:35
  a bunch of different people groups. Wow. That
• 1:14:37
  all worship different gods. That's really interesting.
• 1:14:41
  Yeah, so so that space refers not to a specific
• 1:14:45
  ethnic group But it actually refers to people
• 1:14:48
  who live in the land of Canaan. It's just the
• 1:14:50
  space. It's just the space. Yeah, and so That
• 1:14:54
  is roughly 3 ,500 BC and then you move into the
• 1:14:58
  patriarchal age which this is all like These
• 1:15:02
  timelines are all within a thousand years like
• 1:15:04
  depending on where you look these all may or
• 1:15:08
  may not line up, but they're all like, I would
• 1:15:10
  say they're probably within 500 years of each
• 1:15:12
  other, as far as the estimates. So the patriarchal
• 1:15:16
  age, which would be Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob,
• 1:15:19
  lived as nomadic herdsmen, would be like 2000
• 1:15:22
  BC. So when they come in, when Abram comes in,
• 1:15:26
  the land of Canaan is occupied by the indigenous
• 1:15:30
  Canaanite people for more than a thousand years.
• 1:15:33
  So it's an established land. By people living
• 1:15:37
  in the land of Canaan, but Canaanites. It's not
• 1:15:40
  it's not like there's this Like there are different
• 1:15:43
  kings and there are different like rulers of
• 1:15:46
  different regions because you get to the Malkesdek
• 1:15:49
  Yeah situation and that's an interesting one.
• 1:15:52
  So So so yeah that and that's a again a different
• 1:15:56
  we need to do a Malkesdek episode but But yeah,
• 1:16:01
  and then you go you go into there from so right
• 1:16:04
  after Right after that, the Egyptians actually
• 1:16:08
  dominates Canaan during the new kingdom period,
• 1:16:11
  and that's like 1500 to 1200 BC. So then the
• 1:16:16
  Israelite settlement, so when Israel enters into
• 1:16:19
  the land of Canaan, so in Joshua, when you get
• 1:16:22
  this occupation, that's around 1200 BC. So you're
• 1:16:26
  talking about like roughly a thousand to 800
• 1:16:29
  years later, you're getting the people coming
• 1:16:32
  in. And Israel for the first time in around 1200
• 1:16:35
  BC is actually starting to occupy that space.
• 1:16:38
  Wow. But not just them, but also the Philistines.
• 1:16:43
  Yeah. Yeah. So the Philistines or the Aegean
• 1:16:46
  Sea people, which that's an episode. Yes. Settle
• 1:16:49
  along the coast. There's a lot to talk about
• 1:16:51
  in that. Yeah. And then you have the United Monarchy,
• 1:16:53
  which this is a lot of the Old Testament and
• 1:16:55
  the kings and all of that, like 1000 BC, 900
• 1:16:59
  BC. Yet King Saul, David, Solomon, he rules as
• 1:17:04
  a united kingdom and the capital is Jerusalem.
• 1:17:07
  And then the kingdom split around 930 to 722
• 1:17:12
  BC. And what happens in 930 and 722 BC is actually
• 1:17:18
  the exiles. So then you get this space where
• 1:17:26
  there are these exiles happening. And in the
• 1:17:29
  exiles, What's the first one? Assyrian, I wanna
• 1:17:37
  say. I have all this stuff. I have two notes.
• 1:17:42
  And you've got a lot of notes. Yeah. Israel,
• 1:17:47
  all right, the Assyrians conquer the north region
• 1:17:49
  of Israel, that's right. Because the first thing
• 1:17:52
  we always think about is the Babylonian exile.
• 1:17:54
  Yeah. But realistically, what happens is the
• 1:17:57
  Assyrians come in, and they conquer the north
• 1:18:00
  region of Israel. And we see that in 2 Kings
• 1:18:04
  17, and that's around 722 BC. And when they occupy,
• 1:18:08
  that actually breaks the kingdom up. So that's
• 1:18:11
  where you start to get the split, and you have
• 1:18:15
  the south region or Judah, right? And you start
• 1:18:20
  to get that, and that separation of those two
• 1:18:22
  spaces. And then... That gets reconciled then
• 1:18:27
  there's a Babylonian exile that begins in And
• 1:18:32
  that that all happens around King Solomon and
• 1:18:36
  that's a whole other thing Yeah, we've talked
• 1:18:38
  about it a little bit but around King Solomon
• 1:18:40
  is is where the kingdom start to split apart
• 1:18:42
  and there's conquering of other regions and Yeah,
• 1:18:47
  the Assyrian Kings and things like that. So then
• 1:18:49
  you get the Babylonian exile which begins in
• 1:18:52
  597 BC roughly and then in the Babylonian exile
• 1:18:58
  there's like the occupation at that point is
• 1:19:03
  a little bit different and You basically just
• 1:19:06
  have The Babylonians that have pulled everybody
• 1:19:10
  out of about out of Israel and into Babylon and
• 1:19:13
  then they've left soldiers behind So Babylonian
• 1:19:16
  soldiers are left behind in the land of Canaan.
• 1:19:19
  Oh interesting, but at that point Israel They're
• 1:19:22
  not really calling it the land of Canaan anymore.
• 1:19:26
  Yeah, so it's kind of an interesting, as you
• 1:19:29
  break through that, then you have, so that's
• 1:19:33
  the first deportation. And then the second deportation
• 1:19:37
  to Babylon. And then you have the fall of Jerusalem
• 1:19:41
  where the temple is destroyed. So most of Judah
• 1:19:44
  is exiled to Babylon. And then you have the first
• 1:19:47
  return, Zerubbabel. You have the second return
• 1:19:51
  under Ezra, and then the third return under Nehemiah.
• 1:19:55
  And that's in like 400 BC. So you have all of
• 1:20:00
  these things happening where the land is being
• 1:20:03
  broken up over and over and over again. And what
• 1:20:06
  ends up happening is like there's one united
• 1:20:10
  nation, and then it starts to get broken up kind
• 1:20:14
  of like. what it sounds like the land of Canaan
• 1:20:16
  looked like before. It gets broken up into all
• 1:20:19
  these pieces, and then it gets brought back together,
• 1:20:21
  and then gets broken up into all these pieces,
• 1:20:23
  and then it gets brought back together. And then
• 1:20:25
  from there, one of the things that I think we
• 1:20:28
  forget about, honestly, is what happens after
• 1:20:33
  BC, when you start to get into the AD era. So
• 1:20:40
  then when you start to get into And this is a
• 1:20:44
  lot really fast. No, you're good. I'm trying
• 1:20:47
  to give you space to lay it all out. This is
• 1:20:50
  a lot. It is. But one of the things that you
• 1:20:54
  get is you get this breakdown basically where
• 1:20:57
  you have the Hasmoneans that are like 167 to
• 1:21:04
  63 BC. And then like 63 BC. is when you get the
• 1:21:09
  Romans and the Byzantines. So you're talking
• 1:21:12
  about like 60 BC. So we're looking at like roughly
• 1:21:16
  60 to 70 years before Jesus shows up. That's
• 1:21:19
  when you get the Romans. So all these things
• 1:21:22
  are happening and you have all these exiles and
• 1:21:24
  you have all this stuff and the breaking apart
• 1:21:26
  of the kingdoms and all these things. And then
• 1:21:28
  the Romans come in 60 BC and within the Roman
• 1:21:32
  rule, which... is interesting because it lasts
• 1:21:37
  until 638 A .D. But there's a fall of Jerusalem
• 1:21:41
  in 70 A .D. where the temple is, the abomination
• 1:21:48
  of desolation happens and you get all of this
• 1:21:52
  stuff happening there. But then you get like
• 1:21:55
  the third through the seventh century where Constantine
• 1:22:01
  and the Roman Empire all of a sudden becomes
• 1:22:04
  a Christian Empire. And so now Jerusalem is actually
• 1:22:08
  occupied by Christians because it's part of the
• 1:22:12
  Roman Empire. And so now you have all of these
• 1:22:18
  things happening. So then I'm gonna jump ahead
• 1:22:20
  because from there, 638, you have the fall of
• 1:22:25
  Rome. And then the Arabs and the Islamic, militants
• 1:22:32
  come in in 638 and they push into that space
• 1:22:36
  and when that happens, the Arab and Muslim conflict
• 1:22:40
  or conquest, they capture Jerusalem and the Dome
• 1:22:44
  of the Rock is built in 691. So I think that's
• 1:22:48
  one of the things I didn't really think about.
• 1:22:51
  691. So the Dome of the Rock that's currently
• 1:22:54
  on the Temple Mount was built in 691. That's
• 1:22:58
  crazy. like 1 ,500 years ago. Yeah, that's so
• 1:23:02
  long ago. Yeah. So then you go from there until
• 1:23:05
  like 1 ,000 or 1 ,100 AD, modern era, and that's
• 1:23:10
  when you get the Crusaders and the Kingdom of
• 1:23:12
  Jerusalem. So then that's when you get the European
• 1:23:14
  Crusaders, which establish a Latin Kingdom. Yeah.
• 1:23:19
  Which you're all about the Latin Kingdom. Love
• 1:23:21
  my Latins. And then in 1291, you get Muslim control
• 1:23:27
  for about 300 years. And then after that, you
• 1:23:30
  have the Ottoman Empire, which is the 1500s to
• 1:23:33
  like the 1900s. So that's when the Turks rule
• 1:23:36
  Palestine for 400 years. And that's a mix of
• 1:23:40
  Arabs, Jews, and Christians. And then in 1917,
• 1:23:44
  when World War I happens, Britain takes control.
• 1:23:48
  So in 1917, Britain takes control. So the occupation
• 1:23:52
  of that space is actually under British control
• 1:23:54
  for about 30 years. and then the state of Israel
• 1:23:58
  is founded, a war of independence, Arab states
• 1:24:01
  invade, Palestinian Arab population is displaced,
• 1:24:06
  and then in 1967 you have the Six Day War. Israel
• 1:24:09
  captures East Jerusalem, the West Bank, Gaza,
• 1:24:13
  Golan Heights, and Sinai. And so modern day is
• 1:24:17
  1948 until now. You have Israel and the Palestinian
• 1:24:21
  Arabs that are combined in the space. And the
• 1:24:25
  thing that like, The thing that got me thinking
• 1:24:27
  about all this in general was I heard this orthodox
• 1:24:33
  nun who lives actually right near Bethel, modern
• 1:24:37
  day Bethel, and she equated that there are Palestinians
• 1:24:43
  in that land that have always been there because
• 1:24:48
  they are descendants of the Canaanites. And I
• 1:24:51
  thought, I'm not sure you know what you're saying.
• 1:24:57
  Because, well, first of all, with all of that
• 1:25:00
  change over 2 ,000 years, the idea that there
• 1:25:04
  are Palestinians in the actual land of Israel
• 1:25:08
  that have been there since it was the land of
• 1:25:11
  Canaan, about 4 ,000 years ago, would be mind
• 1:25:18
  -blowing if there were people there that could
• 1:25:21
  track their lineage back like that. But then
• 1:25:23
  also, this is an orthodox Christian who's not
• 1:25:27
  realizing that what they're saying is that Canaanites
• 1:25:31
  still occupy the land. And that was a problem.
• 1:25:39
  So that got me thinking on this trail and this
• 1:25:42
  track. So where I'm at right now in that question
• 1:25:47
  is I think a lot of people have been in and out
• 1:25:52
  of that land for a long period of time. But so
• 1:25:57
  far what we see is early on Israel is a person
• 1:26:06
  who has promised a land as were his ancestors.
• 1:26:15
  So I think we need to finish the discussion later.
• 1:26:18
  And then dig into What does that mean for Christians?
• 1:26:23
  Mm -hmm. What what are Zionists? Yeah, and Well,
• 1:26:29
  how should we feel about a land versus people?
• 1:26:33
  Yeah, I I do want to say this and Maybe this
• 1:26:39
  is a tease for the where we go in the next episode.
• 1:26:42
  I don't know we're gonna find out yes, but I
• 1:26:47
  think it's interesting because Because you brought
• 1:26:51
  up Genesis 3. Yes, and then you repeated that
• 1:26:54
  is Genesis 35. Yes It's interesting so we see
• 1:26:58
  this this Repeated command throughout scripture.
• 1:27:02
  Yes, which is For those that aren't catching
• 1:27:05
  on is to be fruitful and multiply And it's like
• 1:27:08
  that's the command that God gave us from the
• 1:27:10
  beginning. It's like take dominion of the earth
• 1:27:12
  Yeah, and then I think it's interesting because
• 1:27:14
  Yeah, here we are like we squabble about all
• 1:27:18
  these things, but it's like, but really, God
• 1:27:20
  said, like, go out and take dominion of the earth.
• 1:27:24
  And we see how that command is the same, but
• 1:27:27
  the application of it has changed slightly. Yes.
• 1:27:30
  To where we get to the Great Commission, where
• 1:27:32
  taking dominion is retaking the nations. Yes.
• 1:27:35
  And what does that mean? Well, that means not
• 1:27:38
  like, well, let's go conquer all these nations.
• 1:27:40
  No. But it means let's go spread the gospel.
• 1:27:43
  Yes. and that's our way of reclaiming land. Yes,
• 1:27:48
  but the land is not flesh and blood. Yes. That's
• 1:27:51
  the thing. And that's the big piece in this.
• 1:27:54
  Yeah, so that's, yeah, our next episode is what
• 1:27:58
  did Jesus reclaim? Yeah. Like, that would be
• 1:28:02
  the question. Yeah, because I think that's where
• 1:28:04
  we're at with it. When Jesus was incarnate on
• 1:28:07
  the earth, what did he reclaim? In what was he
• 1:28:11
  successful? Conquering. Because the answer is
• 1:28:19
  not death, hell, and the grave. That's what happened
• 1:28:22
  in his death and resurrection. But what did he
• 1:28:25
  conquer while on the earth? That's an interesting
• 1:28:29
  question. That's a great question. So maybe that's
• 1:28:31
  for next time. Three, two, one. Three, two, one.
• 1:28:52
  I need my microphone. Welcome back to Martyrs
• 1:28:57
  Row. I want to try it again. Can't snap with
• 1:29:02
  two hands. Alright, bloopers for the end. Three,
• 1:29:06
  two, one.