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Transcript

Plastic Pollution in the Ocean: Why It's Time to Ban Styrofoam for Good · How To Protect The Ocean

0:00
Let's say you ordered takeout last night.
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Nothing fancy just noodles.
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In one of those foam containers.
0:06
You toss it in the trash after you're done with your food, without even
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thinking anything of it like you've done a hundred times before, because that's
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what happens when you order takeout.
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But the container could break into microplastics, wash into a river, and
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end up inside a sea turtle, a marine mammal, a seabird, any kind of animal.
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It's not gonna decompose because that's not what it does.
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It won't be recycled, and it may harm ocean life for decades, oftentimes,
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leaching chemicals into the body, including not only just regular animals
0:39
that you see, like seals of sea birds and sea turtles, but also humans.
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In this episode, we're gonna talk about the journey of foam, those
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styrofoam containers that we get from takeout places and other places, and
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why it's time to stop using them.
0:55
Al. We're gonna be talking to Oceana's Christie Levitt, who is the campaign
1:00
manager for Oceana on Plastics, especially talking about plastic foam.
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And there's a new report that Oceana produced called Plastic Foam Needs to Go.
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We're gonna talk about that report and why it should concern
1:13
you today and your health.
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Let's start the show.
1:20
Hey everybody.
1:20
Welcome back to another exciting episode of the How to Protect the Ocean Podcast.
1:23
I'm your host, Andrew Lewin, and this is a podcast where you find
1:26
out what's happening with the ocean, how you can speak up for the ocean,
1:28
and what you can do to live for a better ocean by taking action.
1:32
And on today's episode, we're gonna be talking about how campaigns work
1:36
to get certain things passed in legislation, whether it's on the
1:39
federal, the state, or local levels.
1:42
There are people out there working for organizations who are working
1:45
very, very hard to ensure that they're protecting not only the health of
1:49
the planet, but also your health.
1:50
Especially in this case.
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We have Kristi Levitt from Oceana who's a campaigner that works on
1:56
foam styrofoam containers and why they need to go, why there needs to
2:00
be a ban on this type of plastic.
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And we talk about the effects on the health of animals, the health
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of the environment, as well as.
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Our own health.
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So lots of things to do and at the end there's a great call to
2:12
action where you can help out.
2:14
And if you wanna help out more and learn more about how you can be guided to help
2:19
the ocean and live for a better ocean, I would love for you to join the undertow.
2:23
It's an ocean community that we are creating online.
2:25
Myself and two of my amazing co-founders, and we are building this community.
2:30
With Wave Makers, individuals who are driving for ocean change, and we are
2:35
gonna help you better protect the ocean.
2:38
All you have to do is go to speak up for blue.com/join the undertow to join.
2:43
That's speak up for blue.com/join the undertow.
2:46
It's on a wait list right now.
2:47
We're building the app out.
2:48
It should come very, very soon.
2:50
Within the next month or so, I'm very excited to release this.
2:53
You'll get access to me.
2:54
You'll get access to my co-founder, Serena and Amanda, and a
2:57
bunch of Wave makers as well.
2:59
It's gonna be a lot of fun.
3:01
I can't wait for you to do that.
3:02
No algorithms, no regular social media sites.
3:04
This is just a community app for Ocean Lovers like yourself.
3:08
Speak up for blue.com/join the undertow.
3:11
Let's get into the episode.
3:12
Here's my interview with Kristi Levitt from Oceana.
3:15
Talking about the campaign to ban plastic foam so that we don't have
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to deal with the consequences in our environment and in our bodies.
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Enjoy the interview and I'll talk to you after.
3:25
Hey Christie, welcome to the How to Protect the Ocean Podcast.
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Are you ready to talk about styrofoam in the ocean?
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I am.
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And it's a pleasure to be here.
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Oh, it's so, I'm so happy to have you on, uh, Christie.
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I know this is the first time we've actually met, but to have someone from
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Oceania on the podcast is such a delight.
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We've had people on from Oceania Canada before.
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Uh, I've had people on from Oceana, but it's been a while and
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there's just so much fun to have.
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'cause I know the amazing work that you guys do, and you guys do
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such a, a plethora of work, such a wide variety of work, not only in
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fisheries, but in plastic pollution.
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And it's so important to discuss.
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And I'm, I'm really delighted that you're here to, that we're
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gonna be able to discuss that.
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We're gonna be focusing on plastic foam today, like styrofoam and really
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focusing in on those styrofoam containers that take out containers and stuff that
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we get, that we don't even realize.
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And I think a lot of us in, in, when we go through our everyday life, we
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don't question it because just, you know, we take takeout everybody.
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Mm-hmm.
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We're all on the, on the move and we're going quickly and we get
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these, this takeout and we get, it's the container that it comes in.
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And, you know, you try and tell people, Hey, why are you using plastic foam?
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But sometimes they're like, that's what we can afford.
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That's the way we do things.
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Um, and so that happens.
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And so it, it, it's, it's tough to like really think about what
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we can do to make it better.
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So we're gonna talk about the new report that Oceania released called
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Plastic Foam, how it needs to Go.
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And, uh, I want to get into sort of the nitty gritty about it all.
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But before we do Christy, I wanna get to know you a little bit and my audience
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to get to know you a little bit.
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So why don't you let us know who you are and what you do.
4:55
Great.
4:55
Well, it is such a pleasure to be here.
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Um, so I'm Christy Levitt.
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I, um, work with Oceania in the us.
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I am our US Plastics campaign director.
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And so what that means is I run our campaigns here in the US
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to stop the production use of unnecessary single use plastics.
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And my background is that I've been working on environmental
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issues for a couple of decades now.
5:19
Mm-hmm.
5:20
Working on a whole variety of issues, including.
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Oceans protections, but also clean air, clean water, protecting open
5:26
spaces, working on climate issues, and all of that focused on either
5:30
state or national level policies.
5:33
Mm-hmm.
5:33
And had lots of good wins, um, along the way.
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And, you know, some, some losses too as it as it happens, but overall, you know,
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working to make progress so that our air is cleaner, our waters are cleaner, and
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our, you know, we're everything's better for our health and the environment.
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And started at Oceana about six years ago, um, when we launched the
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plastics campaign here in the us.
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So have been here almost from the beginning and a few staff working on it.
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When we, um, first started working on plastics, but launched the campaign,
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uh, in the US and we've worked not only on national level policy, which
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is really oceania's focus, but also state and local policies to reduce the
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production use of single use plastics.
6:18
Wow, awesome.
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I mean, it's such a big undertaking when you think about it.
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Uh, you know, it doesn't matter who the government is, obviously sometimes
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it's a little harder than others, uh, depending on the government, of course.
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Uh, but in your background, in terms of like getting here, working on
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campaigns, when you first started in the field of of Oceans, did you ever
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think that this is what you were gonna be doing is working on campaigns?
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'cause like when I first started, I didn't even know this was a job.
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You know, when I first started, like was like a campaign director
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or you know, someone who works on campaigns, it's obviously a very
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important aspect of it, but did you expect to work in this line of work?
6:58
Well, actually I came about at the other way where really when I
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graduated from college, what I wanted to do was to work on campaigns.
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Oh, interesting.
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I didn't know how to do that.
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Yeah.
7:07
Uh, so, um, and I was really, look, I was really, I was into environmental issues.
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Mm-hmm.
7:13
I was, I went to college in Los Angeles.
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I was into impacts on the, um, you know, pollution impacts on the, on people
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and the environment and the coast.
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And so I was most interested in continuing to live in Los
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Angeles and make change there.
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But I knew I needed to learn how to, how to do that.
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So, um, right.
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I worked for.
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An organization called the Student Pergs for a good number of years.
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I learned those skills about doing organizing work and learning how
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to, um, make change on policy.
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And that was state level policy and national level policy.
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So really what I, you know, I wanted to learn how to do was to make,
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make, make that change that makes a big impact in organizing the public.
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So not only getting the policy right and the facts right, but organizing the public
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to get them engaged in the process too.
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And so I was pretty open about environmental issues that I worked
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on, and as I was saying, you know, over the years worked on everything
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from climate to protecting forest to ocean issues and still really
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excited about all of those issues.
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Mm-hmm.
8:17
Um, and have always come at it from a organizing and public
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policy change end of it.
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And then there was a. Opportunity with Oceania to work on plastics and oceans.
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And you know, the same question of did I ever think I'd
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work on plastics and oceans?
8:33
No.
8:33
No.
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I think, you know, 20 years ago we didn't really know the extent
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of the problem of plastics.
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Mm-hmm.
8:40
And it's, we've been learning a lot.
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Um, and it, you know, it includes so many different things from oceans to protecting
8:49
the animals and the oceans and the harm that, that caused, the impacts on people
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to, the impacts on our, on climate.
8:54
Yeah.
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So all of that comes together with plastics.
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But I definitely did not think, you know, a couple decades ago that
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I would be work working on this.
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But I'm really excited to be here doing it.
9:04
Yeah.
9:04
And, and to be honest, I see a lot more, uh, posts.
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I've actually curated my LinkedIn page to be all job posts.
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'cause I shared job posts for like, the careers for people and.
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I noticed there's a lot of jobs, especially with Oceania, but, but even
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just with a lot of, uh, uh, organizations similar to Oceania, whether it's
9:24
in forestry or whether it's in, in agriculture or it doesn't matter, right?
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There's a lot of campaign directors or somebody like a marine campaign or, or,
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uh, plastics campaign or things like that.
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I see those jobs come up quite a bit, you know, as someone like, I went to
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school for science, a lot of people that I, that listen to this podcast go to
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school for science or marine science.
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Marine biology, like what suited you for this job and what skills
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really suit people for this type of, of campaigns type job?
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Like leading campaigns or, or taking part in campaigns?
9:58
Yeah, that's a really good question.
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I think one of the great things about doing campaign work is that people
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come from all different backgrounds.
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So whether you, you went through.
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Not only college, but then got a mm-hmm.
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Advanced degree in a particular science.
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Mm-hmm.
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You, you didn't, or even if you went to, to law school or you know, some
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you have a degree in something else.
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All of that ultimately can lead you to doing this type of type of campaign work.
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And you'll do it in slightly different ways based on your.
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Expertise and experience.
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Mm-hmm.
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But it's definitely, you know, a set of skills that you can learn
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and I learned it by doing it.
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So I learned how to do things like read policy, to run a press conference,
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to organize a coalition of, or other organizations to go and meet with your
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local elected officials or your, here in the US members of Congress or, mm-hmm.
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You know, your state legislators, all of that are ultimately quite learnable
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skills regardless of your background.
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It's, I think the biggest thing is an interest in doing that and
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in making change through policy.
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And one of the great things about Oceania is that we have people who
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have all of those different expertise.
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So my expertise might be in, in running the campaign, but I work
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with a whole bunch of staff with a variety of different skills.
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So we start, you know, as with many PE organizations, what we definitely
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really focus on starting with the facts.
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So we wanna make sure we've got the science on our side.
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So we've got a scientist who works, um, specifically on plastic.
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Issues.
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We've got policy staff who spend their days up talking to members of Congress
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and their staff and the administration.
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We've got lawyers on staff.
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We also have our field representatives who are based in states around
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the us, particularly coastal states, who are building up that
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political support on the ground.
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Hmm.
11:50
Just getting regular ordinary people engaged in our campaign efforts.
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Plus then people who have some power locally who might be able to
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influence what, what Congress is doing.
12:00
Right.
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And it's really that for Oceania, that mix of the science, the policy,
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the legal aspects, the grassroots support, and then being able to
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communicate that to the public.
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So, uh, I think one of the really most important skills to learn along the
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way and to be able to do this type of work effectively is to take what are
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sometimes really complicated scientific.
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Issues and problems or even solutions and be able to Right.
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Explain that to regular people who are not spending their days looking at what's
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happening on to the oceans or what's, what's happening to the air or what's
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happening to the animals and wildlife.
12:36
Yeah.
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So being able to really break that down to people and I'm sure in your role Sure.
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You, you do that a lot.
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Yeah.
12:43
Yeah.
12:44
Well, it, it is so funny too, 'cause sometimes, uh, when
12:47
you don't think of a job.
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Like a particular job.
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Say you go through school and you're not thinking about working on campaigns.
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Of course, as we mentioned before, it's difficult to figure out
12:55
like, what do I need to do this?
12:56
This sounds like a really good opportunity and a really good way to get
12:59
into conservation is to work on these campaigns and really make a change and
13:03
really make a difference on policy.
13:05
You know, building up those relationships with, with government representatives
13:08
at different levels and and so forth.
13:10
And there's so many, even within like the campaign sort of.
13:14
Avenue, uh, and, and, and career sort of path.
13:18
There are different levels within it from interns and all the way to
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like, sort of like a junior campaigner and then a senior, and then you said
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the field representatives as well.
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Um, and everybody seems to enjoy their jobs.
13:29
Like, you know, I've, I know people who have worked in the field in, in
13:33
campaigning at, for Oceania in particular, and they've been in doing it for like
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nine or 10 years, and they absolutely love it, you know, and they get out into
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the field and they're talking to people and they're going out on boats and like
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doing all these photo ops and stuff.
13:44
And I think it's really great.
13:45
You know, Greenpeace is also, you know, an organization that's known to do
13:49
campaigning and, and they're a little bit more, uh, activism and, and, and stuff.
13:53
But it's, it's just a different way of, of looking at it that you've mentioned
13:56
you've worked in a lot of different, um, almost realms, let's just say.
14:01
So the marine, the forestry, uh, what drives you.
14:05
To choose, uh, the, the path that you've taken, like to choose the
14:10
type of campaigns that you work on.
14:12
What has been that driving factor for you?
14:14
Because I've talked to scientists where they're just like, they,
14:17
like they're the researchers.
14:18
They're driven by specific questions.
14:20
So it doesn't necessarily have to be that the topic is a certain animal.
14:24
It's more of like, what is that ecological function that drives this
14:28
animal to do a particular behavior or particular ecological, um, motion or
14:33
function compared to another animal that does the same thing for you?
14:36
What is that driver to choose the campaigns that you wanna work on or
14:40
to apply for a job to work on the campaigns that you want to work on?
14:43
Right.
14:44
I'm sure that has changed over, over time.
14:47
So I, right.
14:48
You know, when I'm first starting, I grew up in California.
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I right.
14:52
Didn't live on the coast, but live near the coast.
14:55
I, the mountains are amazing.
14:57
Mm-hmm.
14:57
The parks are amazing.
14:58
So there's definitely, you know, a connection to, to nature and
15:02
a variety of types of nature.
15:04
That was a, a strong interest.
15:06
And I think, you know, I still definitely have that.
15:09
I live in a city, but I love going out to explore our national parks.
15:13
I love going to the coast.
15:14
I love looking, you know, um, going to all sorts of, all sorts of places.
15:19
Yeah.
15:19
So I think, you know that, so connection to nature.
15:22
Mm-hmm.
15:23
I also think, um, over time we've found more and more problems, so that's true.
15:31
When I was in school, climate change was not a huge problem.
15:35
That we talked about a lot.
15:37
Mm-hmm.
15:37
But it is now.
15:38
And so I think, but so climate is a big driver for me overall.
15:43
We, and plastics definitely plays into that.
15:46
The oceans are being impacted by that.
15:49
Mm-hmm.
15:49
So that is one of the big things.
15:51
But I think sort of at the, at the core of it, I've got two kids who
15:56
are, they're no longer little kids.
15:57
They're, they're medium sized kids now, but they, um, you know,
16:02
I want them to live in a, yeah.
16:04
In a world that there is clean air, clean water, that there are
16:07
the oceans, that the oceans are filled with all sorts of wildlife.
16:12
That there's people who can sustain their.
16:15
Um, their livelihoods by relying on the oceans that all of that exists,
16:20
not just for the next five to 10 years, but it is for decades and
16:24
decades from now, if not centuries.
16:25
I want, you know, I want my kids to grow up in a, and have a world where
16:30
there is clean air, clean water, oceans.
16:33
I want their kids to be able to do that, so.
16:35
Mm-hmm.
16:36
I think, you know, as a parent, that's a big driver, but I also, also, beyond
16:40
me, I wanna make sure that other people's kids can do that, that too.
16:44
So that it's, you know, I, I look at my kids and what I want them to be able to
16:49
do, but I also want people around the, around the country, around the world to be
16:53
able to have that, those same things too.
16:56
Clean air, clean water.
16:57
Yeah.
16:57
Open spaces.
16:59
Yeah.
16:59
Oceans, all of that.
17:01
Well, and we know how much it plays a role in our health, overall health, not
17:05
only physical, but mental health as well.
17:08
I mean, Jane Nichols, I always mention him and probably every episode that I can with
17:11
his Blue Mind book, uh, you know, and, and, and the fact that it's just, it's.
17:15
It helps us to have the ocean in, in good health.
17:18
You know, just in general, just if we can keep that in good health, keep our
17:22
planet in good shape, then we can do it.
17:23
And, and, you know, some of the stuff that you campaign for to unite like
17:26
basic needs, it's just like we're just asking for, you know, pretty much like,
17:30
let's just keep the, the environment as healthy as possible and, and let's like
17:35
not have as much negative influence on it to, but it's such a big thing to do.
17:40
You know, the campaigns, there's reason why there are campaigns that we do,
17:44
uh, that you participate in to get, you know, these PLAs like foam, uh, and
17:48
styrofoam out of circulation because they could be bad for our, our plan
17:53
and they can be bad for our health.
17:54
So I think it's, I think it's really interesting.
17:55
I, I love the, the driver for that.
17:57
I think it's, I think it's really cool to know, obviously it, it evolves, right?
18:00
I was, I was, I was kind of, I was expecting that it evolves
18:03
as you go through and certain things interest you and as.
18:06
Your kids grow up and you start to see the effect.
18:09
You know, like I have, I have teenage, two teenage daughters,
18:11
one going into university next year for wildlife and conservation.
18:15
So I'm like very excited about that.
18:17
Very cool.
18:17
Not marine biology, but nobody's perfect.
18:19
It's, it's fine.
18:20
It's fine.
18:21
But it's, it's, it's kind of cool to see and you know, we, we discuss
18:24
a lot of the, some of the issues.
18:25
It's just like, I don't understand why this is an issue.
18:27
Like, this seems to be just basic, but it is, you know, and then we have
18:30
to, we have to make a case for it and we have to campaign on these things.
18:34
Um, so I, I think that's, that's really cool.
18:36
Let's get into the plastics.
18:38
'cause this is what we're here for in the styrofoam.
18:40
There is a report, uh, that, that Oceania put out, uh,
18:43
called plastic foam needs to go.
18:45
Uh, it's a really well written report, very easy to read for, for
18:49
anybody who wants to pick it up.
18:50
And I'll put the link in, uh, in the show notes so that people
18:53
can, can get access to it.
18:55
What, speaking of drivers, what was the driver to write this report?
19:00
Well.
19:01
So as overall Ocean is working to reduce the production in use of single use
19:07
plastics and we're taking a step back, we're doing that because single use
19:11
plastics and packaging makes up about 40% of all the plastic made each year.
19:17
So that's, that's a lot.
19:18
And a lot of that 40% is unnecessary.
19:21
Mm-hmm.
19:21
And so if we can make an impact on that, it's gonna protect our,
19:25
ultimately protect our oceans.
19:27
'cause we're making less of it and less of it's gonna end up at
19:29
the ocean, but it's also gonna have lots of other benefits too.
19:32
Mm-hmm.
19:32
In terms of climate issues, in terms of other clean air and clean water issues.
19:38
So that's our starting point is taking, taking that piece of the pie, I guess
19:42
it'd be this piece of the pie that way.
19:44
Um, so dealing with that, that part of it, there are some really
19:49
problematic single use plastics and um, plastic foam is one of those.
19:53
So plastic foam, it's formally called expanded fall, sorry, it's
19:58
former called Expanded Polystyrene.
20:00
And it's.
20:01
As you started the show, it's often referred to as styrofoam.
20:04
Right.
20:04
And it is something that there are good alternatives to.
20:09
Now.
20:09
There is no reason why we should be relying on this product.
20:13
That is, it pollutes our environment.
20:16
It creates problems for the ocean, it creates problems for people.
20:20
And we can get into all of that, but it's really one of the most
20:22
problematic plastics, but there simply is not a need for it.
20:26
Right.
20:26
Um, and so we wanted to do this report to help educate people and show people
20:33
that plastic foam is hazardous to, hazardous to our oceans and our health.
20:37
Mm-hmm.
20:38
So it, it's really, it's always interesting when we find out that
20:41
something that we've been using in general supply, you know, and in
20:45
like everyday life, like I mentioned at the beginning of the show, is
20:49
bad for us and bad for the planet.
20:51
Yet we never questioned it.
20:53
We just said, this is, you know, I'm gonna order my food, or I'm at a
20:56
restaurant and I want to take it home, so I want to, you know, go home with it.
21:01
Oh, here, here's a, here's a container for it.
21:03
Okay, cool.
21:04
I'm not gonna, you know, even question it, put it in a
21:07
container and I'm gonna go home.
21:10
Why is it that styrofoam was the choice that was made in the
21:15
first place To be that material?
21:18
To go into this mass production and be used by, you know, millions
21:22
of people around the world?
21:24
Billions.
21:24
Really?
21:26
Yeah.
21:26
I don't know if it was.
21:29
A conscious or purposeful choice for particularly this type of plastic.
21:33
There are a couple of things for why plastic, foam and
21:37
other single use plastics.
21:39
They, they, they have increased the use exponentially of this.
21:43
These products have, let me say that again.
21:45
These products Yeah.
21:46
Have increased exponentially over the last 20 years.
21:50
Right.
21:50
So over half of the plastic made has been since 2004.
21:55
So there's been this huge growth and a lot of that is about moving from reusable
22:00
products to a lot of single use products.
22:03
And plastic foam is.
22:05
Pretty cheap.
22:05
Um mm-hmm.
22:06
It's pretty cheap to make and it is, that clearly does not include
22:11
all of the environmental and health impacts built into that cost.
22:15
And it's, um, it's lightweight, so easy to ship.
22:18
Mm-hmm.
22:18
So I think those are the sum of things, but make it, have made
22:22
it part of just common usage.
22:24
Mm-hmm.
22:25
Uh, and it is used as you're saying, for everything from takeout
22:28
containers to taco cups, to soda cups.
22:31
Um, foam coolers is one of the other uses.
22:34
And yeah.
22:34
Pack what we in the US call packing peanuts, but other Yes.
22:38
Packaging, um, or pack packing peanuts in Canada too.
22:42
Um, it's pretty much the same.
22:43
Yeah.
22:44
So it is.
22:45
So, you know, it does.
22:47
Have its uses, but all the problems with it.
22:51
Mm-hmm.
22:51
Both on the production side and the toxic chemicals that come out of our
22:55
use of it that then is an impact on us.
22:57
And then its disposal are all totally problematic.
23:00
And one of those, some of those things that might make it useful for somebody,
23:05
um, you know, to sell the product are some of the problems with it.
23:09
So it's really lightweight.
23:10
Mm-hmm.
23:11
It also is brittle, so when it is breaks apart, it makes it, you
23:16
know, breaks up into tiny pieces.
23:17
Yeah.
23:18
That can be carried really far in both the wind and the water.
23:22
So it, it has become one of the most common forms of marine
23:25
plastic pollution as well as pollution in lakes and rivers too.
23:29
And so that big expansion of its use has created lots of problems too.
23:35
Well, and if, and if you've ever handled anything that's styrofoam
23:38
related, God forbid it breaks or you try and like break it down, it, it
23:45
seems like it's a product just made of these tiny, tiny balls of styrofoam.
23:49
And so when it breaks, these things go everywhere and
23:52
they're very difficult to clean.
23:54
If you think about it, right?
23:55
Like, I'm thinking of like, in my mind right now, I'm thinking
23:58
of like a styrofoam cooler.
23:59
If that breaks or gets crushed by something, uh, it
24:02
it, it just goes everywhere.
24:04
And it's really difficult to take up every little piece.
24:06
It's not like big chunks or, or things like that.
24:09
So think of like, when I think about that, I think about that happening at a beach.
24:12
If somebody takes a cooler to a beach, you know, it say, even if it
24:16
a piece like chips off, you know, and they're like, oh, no big deal.
24:19
You try and pick up as much as possible, but you still get these little beads that
24:23
are in the sand that eventually travels.
24:24
They're lightweight.
24:25
If they're not buried in the sand, they can go into the ocean or they can
24:28
go into the dunes if you're through dunes in the back, and animals will
24:32
eventually try and pick 'em up.
24:33
You know, it's, they think, oh, maybe it's a bird.
24:36
Maybe it's a sea turtle, you know, as they're trying to get
24:38
some food or something like that.
24:39
If it's floating, they might just.
24:41
Experiment and try and get it in there.
24:43
And we don't think about that when it happens because I'll have it
24:46
in my driveway and it'll break, and I'm like, oh, like I gotta
24:49
go and pick it all up and stuff.
24:51
And who's gonna take it?
24:52
Like, what's gonna be affected by this?
24:54
It's on my own property.
24:55
It's not gonna affect anything but it birds pick it up.
24:57
I've seen birds pick it up.
24:58
I've seen squirrels pick it up, you know, animals pick this, this stuff up.
25:02
It's harmful for these animals.
25:04
It'll eventually kill them or, or harm their health.
25:06
And, and, and I think we don't think about that.
25:08
We just think, oh, it's a cooler.
25:10
I can grab it, bring it to the beach, or bring it to wherever on a
25:13
picnic, and then I'll just throw it out because I don't want to keep it.
25:16
It's, it's very much in our convenience, you know, for this type
25:20
of, of work, even though there are so many other products available now.
25:23
I think it, I feel like it's almost, you know, sometimes I, I, I still, I
25:27
still wonder why we have this problem because there are so many alternatives
25:30
available for restaurants as well as for consumers, individual consumers.
25:35
So.
25:37
And, and this is this in your report, it's like, why is it so
25:41
hard to get it out of production?
25:45
Why is it so difficult?
25:48
It is primarily, it's a plastic producer, so there is a. They make this product,
25:54
they wanna keep selling the product.
25:56
Um, and it is, for all the reasons you said, totally
25:59
problematic and harmful to animals.
26:01
We can could talk about some specific am uh, examples, if
26:04
that's, that's helpful too.
26:06
But the main reason we still have it is that the companies that
26:09
produce it wanna keep producing it.
26:12
Hmm.
26:12
And they wanna keep it, keep it on the market.
26:15
Um, there's countries around the world and I think Canada too has mm-hmm.
26:19
A plan and a law Yes.
26:21
To phase out single use plastic foam.
26:24
In the US we don't have a law like that on the national level yet, but we do
26:28
have state, state laws and cities and counties are, are working to phase it out.
26:33
It really should be that the companies that use and sell and distribute
26:37
this, that they're doing it there on their own and they're, yeah.
26:40
Stop using it and using it as the, the coffee cup or the takeout
26:44
container or the packing peanuts, but they're not doing that in all cases.
26:48
And so these government policies are really important.
26:51
To make, make change on the issue and to, to move it on out.
26:55
Um, so that's what, if the companies aren't doing themselves, governments
26:58
really need to, to step in and make a difference, to force it.
27:02
'cause it is such a problem for the, whether it's the, you know, sea turtles
27:06
who are eating it, or birds that are picking it up like you are describing,
27:10
or they're see it floating on the ocean and they think it looks like,
27:13
um, little fish eggs, they eat it.
27:15
Mm-hmm.
27:16
That way too.
27:16
So it's, it's really problematic for ocean, ocean animals.
27:20
I never thought of the fish egg scenario, but yeah.
27:23
That, that, that makes complete sense.
27:25
Um, obviously there's an environmental impact to it with, with birds, with
27:30
fish, with sea turtles, uh, like any animal really that wants to
27:34
pick this up wherever it can find.
27:36
Um, but it also affects humans as well.
27:40
Like these, these things get into our system.
27:43
Um.
27:44
How does it get into ours?
27:46
Like, how does it affect us?
27:47
Because some people are like, I'm not gonna eat it.
27:49
Like, why would I?
27:50
Mm-hmm.
27:50
Why would I get it into my system?
27:52
Like what I, what, what contributes to like the, the, the, the, um, I guess bad
27:57
health, for lack of better terminology.
28:01
Yeah.
28:01
Well, it is, I, I remember as a kid having like a foam cup and you Yeah.
28:06
You start playing with it and you break it apart.
28:08
Yeah.
28:08
And I'm sure there's kids around the.
28:11
Around me and around the world who are, you know, have eaten foam.
28:14
But even, even if you're at the point in your life where you're not gonna eat
28:17
that, yeah, that foam cup, plastic foam is made from a product called styrene.
28:23
Um, and styrene is toxic to the human nervous system.
28:27
It's also a probable carcinogen, which, what that means is it probably
28:31
causes cancer in people and it easily leeches into food and beverages.
28:36
So it comes outta that plastic foam cup or your, um, clamshell
28:41
container that's holding your takeout.
28:43
That chemical can leach out and, um, into, into you.
28:49
And one of the things about styrene is that it leeches out at.
28:54
Even more at high temperatures.
28:56
So to think of that hot cup of coffee in a foam cup, yeah.
28:59
That's even more problematic.
29:01
'cause that heat is leading to more of that sty chemical being
29:05
leached into the, into the coffee.
29:07
So it is quite ridiculous that when we, you know, are drinking a drink
29:12
from a foam cup or we're eating something from a takeout container,
29:15
we could be risking our health.
29:17
And in the US, the American Academy of Pediatrics recommends
29:22
parents avoid polystyrene plastic, which is a plastic foam.
29:27
It's a type of polystyrene.
29:28
Mm-hmm.
29:29
So we've got, you know, it's a probable carcinogen.
29:32
It's leeches into our food and drink.
29:35
And it also, p pediatricians are saying, don't, don't give
29:39
this product to your children.
29:41
Right.
29:41
And all of that together seems like just something that we should.
29:45
Say no.
29:46
Yeah, we don't want this.
29:48
And then the other way that it can get into our body too, is we were
29:52
talking about it breaks up, um, into those smaller and smaller pieces.
29:55
Ultimately they become microplastics.
29:58
Mm-hmm.
29:58
Um, or nanoplastics.
30:00
And they, they, and other types of polystyrene particles, they've been
30:04
found in many parts of the human body, including in our brains, lungs,
30:10
kidneys, blood and reproductive systems.
30:13
So it is being found in all parts of the, the body.
30:17
Now we know a lot about the chemicals like styrene.
30:21
Mm-hmm.
30:22
You know, there are a lot of chemicals in plastic that.
30:25
The producers haven't shared what those chemicals are.
30:27
So there's the chemicals are one part of the problem and we have
30:31
some more information about that and we know it's problematic.
30:34
And then the other part are the tiny bits of plastic are ending up in people.
30:40
And we don't know all the impacts of that.
30:42
It's a newer area where science is really digging in there, but it seems
30:47
problematic to have little particles of plastic throughout our bodies, whether
30:52
that's in our brains or reproductive systems or, uh, in our hearts.
30:57
And if you think about going back to chemicals, leaching out into coffee
31:02
cup, if it's heated or, or warmed in any kind of way, you think about those
31:05
particles, those plastic particles that are binding to molecules in our
31:09
body, whether they be air molecules, whether they be blood molecules,
31:15
those are leaching into our body.
31:16
And if you, if you extrapolate and you, we look at marine mammals who have had.
31:22
Arsenic and other types of, of harmful metals in their, in their lipid, in their
31:27
fats because of ingestion of plastics, a variety of plastics, not just styrofoam.
31:33
And we see the effect that it has on their health.
31:36
I think we can, because we are, you know, fairly closely
31:39
related, we're both mammals.
31:40
We can almost extrapolate and say, Hey, that this could happen to us.
31:43
It could, it could degrade our system, our, our health, like our body as
31:48
we go through and as we get older.
31:50
And if we're certain of us, some of us are more vulnerable than others, depending
31:53
on what other conditions that we have.
31:55
And it's just, it'd be easy if it just didn't get into our system, if
31:58
it wasn't in our supply chain and, and it, and it wasn't anything.
32:02
So That's great.
32:03
And you did, you did mention that.
32:04
That's exactly right.
32:05
Yeah.
32:05
You did mention in Canada, we do have a, a policy, I believe.
32:09
I'm not sure where it's at right now.
32:10
I have to, uh, I have to, uh.
32:12
Touch base with Anthony right now, because last time I spoke, um, there were a
32:16
number of, of chemical companies as well as fossil fuel companies who were suing
32:19
the government, uh, for aspects of, uh, the, the, the aspect of, um, why this
32:26
legislation went in, which is basically that that plastic is toxic to people,
32:30
is what they put in the legislation.
32:32
And so all, there's a number of different actions that came out.
32:34
One of those was to ban, I think it was six specific single use plastics.
32:39
Styrofoam was one of those, um, plastics.
32:42
And, and then there's, there's stuff to come, a register, a registry of plastics,
32:47
a tracking of plastics and, and so forth.
32:49
And I think they were, even though they, they didn't mind certain of those, those
32:53
single use plastics being done, as Anthony mentioned from, from Ocean, ocean Canada.
32:56
That's why I mentioning him.
32:58
He said that, you know, they just don't want.
33:00
Have to worry about anything in the future that could impede on their business.
33:03
So it's a business decision, a lot of this stuff of why it's being kept in.
33:08
Now, the interesting thing that, that gets me, and, and obviously I know like
33:12
if you go to the government and you say, let's put in legislation to ban
33:16
these products so that they can't put 'em into the system, which, like in
33:19
Canada, I've seen firsthand, like it's been in, it's, I think it's been in
33:23
since like 2022 or 2023, and it's phased in for certain, for certain products.
33:27
Yeah.
33:27
But I've anecdotally, I've seen it in our restaurants, especially where
33:32
the takeout containers are now more like this, this corrugated, um, uh,
33:37
like, like, um, paper basically.
33:41
It's like, it's, it's almost like, um, like what boxes are made of essentially
33:44
is, is what it is, but lighter, supposed to be better recycled, like better
33:49
compostable and stuff, and which is nice.
33:51
Which is nice to see like that, that we see that I, I actually will only go to.
33:56
To take out places that actually have that.
33:58
So I won't go anywhere else because that's my choice.
34:00
Like I'm, that's how I'm gonna choose.
34:02
So I understand that going for government, it probably works
34:05
it faster into the system.
34:07
Um, but going to businesses and saying, Hey, look, here are some of
34:10
the alternatives, here are the prices.
34:12
If like, if somebody went into like, like a business, like a restaurant,
34:16
say a takeout restaurant, say, here are some of the alternatives, like
34:19
what would it take for you to switch?
34:20
Like, has, has O Ocean Nna done any of those surveys with businesses and
34:24
said, what would it take for you to switch over to something that's better
34:28
for the health of your customers, but also same, same price point or similar
34:31
price point and you know it's gonna be better for you and, and your customers.
34:35
Have you ever, has Oceania ever worked at that level with businesses or had
34:39
partners that did the same thing?
34:41
Yeah, we, at Oceania, we haven't done that.
34:45
We, okay, so going business to business, a couple.
34:48
Some coalition partners have been more engaged in that and some
34:52
of the things that we do know.
34:54
So ultimately the best solution is moving to a reusable or
34:58
refillable product, right?
35:00
So there are some companies in the US and if not yet soon, in Canada
35:06
hopefully, that are doing reusable takeout containers, correct.
35:09
Where you can order your takeout, whether it gets delivered to you or
35:13
you're picking it up and it's gonna come in at a container that then you
35:17
either give back to that delivery person or you can drop it off back
35:21
at the restaurant where you got it.
35:22
Or some places have other drop off locations, it then gets washed and
35:27
cleaned and returned for the, to a restaurant for, for use again.
35:31
So yeah, systems like that are the best.
35:33
Yes.
35:34
Um, and then it, where that's not possible or doesn't exist yet.
35:38
Something with that is a non-toxic.
35:41
Uh, alternative is even better.
35:43
Which it sounds like you found some places.
35:45
Yeah, yeah.
35:46
Places like that.
35:47
And there are, um, some coalition partners in the US who have looked, or
35:53
some other entities in the US who have looked into it and found that switching
35:58
to reuse does ultimately you'll make your money back in the long term.
36:03
So there's some upfront investments for things like if you, your business
36:07
doesn't have a dishwasher, yeah, you'll need to invest in that, but
36:10
over several years you can, um, break even and even go beyond that.
36:15
So there are some folks who are working on that.
36:18
It's not something that we're working on, on the business to business level.
36:22
We're really focused on that, that government policy.
36:25
But the, um, some policies that could help in that would be having some grants
36:31
that could then go to support this change over to, to reuse is another.
36:36
I love that.
36:37
That another thing that could help out.
36:39
Yeah, that's a perfect, perfect answer because that's, I mean, it,
36:43
it would take a lot of building relationships with businesses and
36:45
obviously that takes a long time.
36:47
Uh, plus there's so many businesses out there that use these types of containers,
36:50
uh, that it would be difficult to go to each and every one and say, Hey,
36:55
like, this is what we need to do.
36:57
Um, so now, you know, we, we, this, this type of knowledge is not
37:02
necessarily new to a lot of people.
37:04
Like to some, uh, businesses, some manufacturers, even governments have
37:08
known that, you know, styrofoam has been a problem for, for quite some time.
37:13
Are there any efforts, like policy efforts currently underway to, to
37:18
change the law e either at local, state, or, or federal levels In the US.
37:26
Yes.
37:26
At all of those, at all of those levels, there are policies.
37:30
So the, in the US states and cities are doing a lot more than we've
37:34
done on the national level, right?
37:36
There's 12 states that have passed laws that are statewide laws that reduce
37:40
single use plastic foam products.
37:42
Some of those are food wear specific, some cover food wear and packing
37:46
peanuts and the disposable foam coolers.
37:50
Uh, we saw more that were introduced on the state level this year
37:53
during legislative sessions.
37:54
Some of those legislative sessions are still still going on.
37:58
And we also got a bill that's been introduced in Congress
38:02
called the Farewell to Foam Act.
38:04
And what it would do would be to phase out plastic foam food
38:07
ware, packing peanuts, and.
38:09
Disposable cooler foam coolers around the, around the country.
38:13
And so that's been introduced in Congress, um, and it's gaining support
38:18
and we're, we are spending time working on that as well as supporting state
38:23
laws, um, and local policies too.
38:25
So just last week, um, the city of Boston talked about inter uh,
38:32
passing a bill that would phase out plastic foam there too in food wear.
38:36
That's awesome.
38:37
So we're, we're seeing all of this, a national law would be best 'cause it would
38:41
cover, cover the whole country, but all of these pieces definitely, definitely help.
38:48
Yeah.
38:48
Well, and, and that's, that's always great and, and like obviously state
38:51
and local levels are probably better to target these days than, than any other.
38:57
Um, but even before this new administration came in, were there
39:01
any, uh, leaps in strides with the last administration that was in, in the US on.
39:08
Because they seem to have obviously more of climate friendly policies and
39:12
so forth, was was styrofoam part of their agenda to clean up or to address?
39:20
It.
39:20
Uh, so this bill had been introduced in the previous session of Congress.
39:24
It didn't, it didn't pass, but there's Congress is on one side and
39:27
then there's the administration.
39:28
The right Biden administration did several policies that were, were good
39:33
policies to phase out, not only plastic foam, but other single use plastics.
39:38
And one of the first ones that they did was in 2022, where the, um, secretary
39:44
of the interior put in place a policy to phase out single use plastics in our
39:49
national parks and other public lands that are overseen by the Interior department.
39:54
It was on a pretty long timeline, so it was a 10 year timeline.
39:58
Um, unfortunately that has now been overturned by the current Secretary
40:02
of the Chin area interior, but that.
40:04
Covered the previous policy, covered plastic foam, um, as well as other
40:09
single use plastics and parks.
40:10
Were starting to work, work on that.
40:12
Now, that's a, a small but very visible part of the federal government.
40:17
People in the US as I know this is true in Canada to Canada
40:20
too, love our national parks.
40:22
Yeah.
40:23
Um, and we have visitors from, from around the world.
40:25
So phasing out single use plastic in such iconic places makes a, makes
40:30
a big impact and people mm-hmm.
40:32
See that the other thing that the Biden administration did was put in
40:36
place a policy to phase out single use plastics across the federal government.
40:42
Um, and that was also had a, you know, multi-year timeline, but a set of things
40:46
that they wanted to do by, by 2027.
40:49
Okay.
40:49
They just put that policy in place last summer.
40:52
So there wasn't significant progress made on it by the time
40:55
that their administration ended.
40:57
Mm-hmm.
40:57
But it was, um.
41:00
You think of like, oh, the federal government doing something that might
41:02
not be big, but the US government is the largest purchaser of goods
41:06
and services in the entire world.
41:08
So if they make a change on their purchasing and stop purchasing
41:13
single use plastics and move to other reusable and refillable products
41:17
or other non-toxic products, that's gonna make a big, a big impact.
41:21
So we were really excited about that policy.
41:24
That has been put in place.
41:26
Um, it is not moving forward at this point in time.
41:29
Right.
41:29
But we're hopeful to see things like that again down the road.
41:34
Um, but in the meantime, building support in Congress and also working on
41:39
the, on state and local policies too.
41:42
Because one of the cool things about this all is that we know even from some
41:46
examples in the US when a city or a state puts in place a policy to phase out
41:52
plastic foam, it has, it makes an impact.
41:55
Um, and this is not all places have data that shows mm-hmm.
41:59
What the pollution was like in a river or in a bay mm-hmm.
42:02
Ahead of time.
42:03
But for example, up in Maryland, which is, I'm in Washington,
42:07
DC it's just north in DC Yeah.
42:09
They, um, saw in Maryland's.
42:11
In our harbor in Baltimore, they sent 80% reduction in the plastic foam
42:16
that was collected by a big trash interceptor called Mr. Trash Wheel.
42:21
After their statewide food ban went into foam food wear, ban went into effect.
42:26
I love Mr. Trash Wheel, by the way.
42:28
You Oh, Mr. Trash.
42:29
Oh, good.
42:29
Yeah, I, I'm a fan of Mr. Trash Wheel as well.
42:33
Anything with googly eyes is fun.
42:36
Exactly.
42:36
We, we don't have that in, we don't have Mr. Trash Wheel in dc but we, um, here
42:42
in DC the city put in place a single use plastic foam ban about 10 years
42:47
ago, and in the first year, there are trash traps along the, the Anacostia
42:52
River, which runs through the city.
42:54
There was a 50% reduction in plastic foam at the end of the first year, and then
42:58
after five years, that pollution fell 88%.
43:02
So it's here when a, like a city or a state puts in place these policies, you
43:07
can see big reductions in the amount of.
43:10
Foam that is collected by these, you know, these trash collectors.
43:14
Yep.
43:14
Um, and it's not just because people are being more careful with it.
43:18
They're just not using as much of it.
43:20
'cause there's been, it's been phased out.
43:22
So if we can get that across the country, it can make a, a big impact.
43:26
And as your law gets implemented in Canada, that also mm-hmm.
43:30
Can make an a big impact.
43:32
Um, good news from Canada.
43:34
You know, not only is it about the plastic foam, but it deals
43:37
with other single use plastics.
43:38
Yeah.
43:38
For plastics too, for sure.
43:40
Um, and Anthony can definitely give you an update.
43:42
I think it's still, it's still, I think there's still court cases
43:45
still moves forward and then there's still court cases too.
43:47
Yeah, I think now.
43:48
I think, I think they, I think the government won the appeal, I think.
43:51
'cause now it's going, still going back to court.
43:53
Last time I checked I think is, is what it was.
43:56
So, but it is, the law is still in place.
43:58
That's what, that's what the, the, the beautiful part is.
44:00
Yeah.
44:00
Um, now let's talk about campaigns.
44:03
Um, you know, during like at, especially at the federal level these
44:07
days, uh, it's obviously harder.
44:09
You know, we're not, we won't go into detail about that 'cause
44:11
we don't need to go into detail.
44:13
Um, from, from the point of view of someone who campaigns and, and you
44:18
know, from Oceana who has, well, I would say a lot of, of, of, uh.
44:23
Clout, you know, in terms of bringing factual information, bringing concerns
44:27
that people have, like their, your constituents have on, you know,
44:31
plastic pollution and styrofoam.
44:33
When you go up against, uh, an administration like this, and not just
44:38
the actual president administration, but when you have, you know, congress of,
44:42
of one party, that may not make a lot, uh, or may not be known these days as
44:48
environmental policy makers, even though back in the seventies they were the ones
44:52
who put in like some of the most, you know, wonderful, uh, policies, you know,
44:57
like the Magnuson Stevens Act, the Marine Mammal Protection Act, and so forth.
45:01
Um, from your perspective, how do you approach the change of, of, of
45:07
a, a. Of an administration from the different executive levels, you know,
45:14
from, from the, the congress, from senate to, to, to the, the president,
45:19
uh, even, even the Supreme Court where, where court cases sometimes
45:23
are used to, to get things changed.
45:26
How does Oceano approach this?
45:28
And you've specifically approach an, uh, a, an administration that
45:31
may not be as, as responsive to these types of, of campaigns?
45:37
Yeah, that's a good, a good question.
45:39
The, the starting point for me is that in the good news, within.
45:45
Things that are more, more challenging is that the public
45:48
really cares about this issue.
45:50
Mm-hmm.
45:50
And that's for plastic and that's also for other, other ocean issues.
45:53
I obviously know more on the, on the plastic sides, but as we've done
45:57
pooling year after year, there's strong support across the political spectrum.
46:03
Mm-hmm.
46:03
And on plastics in particular, just taking the foam piece of that, we did a.
46:07
We released a poll, um, that earlier this year that found 78% of registered US
46:14
voters support policies on the national level to reduce single use plastic foam.
46:19
And so that's not only democratic support, it's also Republican support,
46:24
it's also independent support.
46:26
And that's pretty consistent with the That's awesome.
46:29
The polling that we've done, and that is getting 78% of Americans
46:32
to agree on anything Yeah.
46:34
Is quite remarkable.
46:35
And so that, that's a clear sign that they care about this issue.
46:39
They're concerned about the plastic foam that harms the health of ocean animals.
46:44
And that polling, we asked a question about that on just concern
46:47
and found 88% of US voters were concerned about the plastic foam
46:52
and the harms to, to ocean wildlife.
46:54
So there's strong public support for this.
46:57
And then the challenge there is making sure that that message
47:01
gets to the, the decision makers.
47:04
I think.
47:05
Across party lines.
47:06
There is concern about the, about plastics.
47:09
Mm-hmm.
47:10
There's concern about the impacts of plastics on the ocean.
47:13
There's, as we learn more about microplastics and the impacts on human
47:17
health, there's concern about that too.
47:19
And then the challenge there is getting that concern from members of Congress,
47:25
in this case, to change to action.
47:28
And yeah.
47:29
Unfortunately, one of the things that happens is that sometimes people
47:33
default to the solution is recycling.
47:35
'cause that's what we've heard.
47:36
Yes.
47:36
For Yes.
47:37
30, 50, 60 years.
47:39
That if we just recycled more plastic, that's gonna solve the problem.
47:42
That's not gonna solve the problem.
47:44
It's not gonna solve it for plastics overall.
47:47
It's not gonna solve it for plastic foam.
47:49
So of all the plastic waste created, only 9% has been recycled.
47:55
Mm-hmm.
47:55
The rest mm-hmm.
47:56
Ends up in landfills, burned in incinerator, or ends up in the
48:00
environment, including the ocean.
48:02
Plastic foam.
48:03
Even, even worse, the current recycling rates for that in the US
48:07
are less than 1% of plastic foam.
48:10
Yeah.
48:10
Is recycled.
48:11
Yeah.
48:11
So there's, the good part of that, as I was saying, is that people are
48:16
concerned about this issue that's the public at large, um, as well
48:19
as our decision makers in Congress.
48:22
Um, but we need to push on the, on the solutions and we know
48:27
it's gonna take, take time.
48:29
Mm-hmm.
48:29
Um, for an administration that's not pushing strong environmental policies,
48:34
it means we spend more time defending the policies that are on the books.
48:38
So some of the Gotcha.
48:39
The laws that you were just mentioning, where going back to protect the Marine
48:44
Mammal Protection Act, were Yeah.
48:45
Protect, working to protect Noah, which oversees a lot of the mm-hmm.
48:50
The oceans and the protections.
48:52
Um, and that is.
48:54
It would be much better if we were pushing, being able, it would be much
48:57
better if we were able to push forward strong policies that did even more.
49:02
But right now we're at the point where it's on the national level.
49:04
It's about a lot about defending the laws that are on the book and
49:08
finding champions and supporters in Congress from both political
49:12
parties who are gonna gonna do that.
49:15
And where there are even more opportunities in the short term
49:18
is on the, on the state level.
49:20
Wonderful.
49:22
And let's be honest too, like some of these policies don't just get
49:24
written up in one day and then put it through Congress, and then they're,
49:28
they're voted on and they go through and they're done like the next day.
49:30
This, sometimes these take years to put together.
49:33
Uh, you know, unfortunately, sometimes it takes years for people to gain
49:36
the support like within, within Congress or on a federal level, even
49:39
state level and even local level.
49:41
Uh, and so there's, so like what I, I guess my question is, is there's no need
49:46
to stop because of specific administration may not want to put it through.
49:51
You continue to.
49:53
Bring it forward, but also knowing that at some point there's gonna be
49:56
somebody who's interested in this and will, will be the champion or
50:00
champions to, to push it through.
50:02
Correct.
50:03
Definitely.
50:03
So yeah, it is, um, we'll make as much progress as we can right now and defend
50:09
all the laws that we can right now, and we need, you know, the public needs to
50:13
get engaged with that and support that.
50:15
But it is also, this will be long term.
50:18
So if we can't pass a bill to phase out plastic foam across the country
50:23
this year, they, we'll keep building towards next year and the year after.
50:26
They'll ultimately, we've built up enough support to do it and that's why
50:30
that public concern, getting people to talk to their local elected officials,
50:35
whether that's their mayor or their city counselor or their member of Congress,
50:38
it's so important for that concern then to change that into, into action.
50:44
Yeah.
50:44
And, and let's be honest, if you put it through local and state levels and you see
50:48
progress in there, that might, you know, trigger somebody at the federal level
50:53
to be like, oh, this actually worked.
50:54
How did it work?
50:54
Okay, let's put, let's use this aspect in this state and let's use this aspect
50:58
in this state and let's put it together.
51:00
So there's, there's a lot of benefit in doing it at the
51:02
different, at the different levels.
51:03
Let me ask you this, this is something that I've been curious about and I haven't
51:06
seen any data on it, but, and it's more anecdotal from responses that I have.
51:10
Anytime I post up anything plastic related or plastic pollution related,
51:14
we, we've covered it a a number of times over the 10 years of this podcast.
51:18
I get, you know, people over those, those 10 years have been like, oh,
51:21
well, you know, the plastic straw thing, it's, it's, it's ruined everything.
51:25
And why are we protecting plastic straws?
51:27
I've even heard some people like, who cares about sea turtles?
51:29
Which by the way, they're no longer on my friend list and follow the list.
51:33
I mean, sea turtles are need to be protected.
51:35
They are angels in their own little, right.
51:38
But I, I, I digress.
51:41
Um.
51:42
Has the, has the focus on plastic straws since that, you know, that that video
51:48
that went viral where the plastic straw was pulled outta that sea turtle has
51:51
it hindered the ability to put through plastic, uh, uh, or anti plastic or
51:58
plastic, um, policies to handle not only, you know, plastic straws, but others.
52:04
Have you found that to, to happen?
52:05
Has that been studied or looked at in any kind of way that you know of?
52:10
I don't know if there's been any, any studies.
52:13
I think like that particular sea turtle that had that Yeah.
52:16
Straw and it's knows that, I'm sure lots of your listeners have Oh, yeah.
52:20
Seen that.
52:22
Yeah.
52:22
Or people it now.
52:22
Right.
52:23
It had a, it had a big impact.
52:25
Right, right.
52:25
Nobody, equity.
52:27
Most people, um, unlike your ex-friend, do care about sea turtles and do,
52:33
like, are concerned about that.
52:34
So I think that had a really big impact.
52:37
If we dealt with all the problems of plastic straws and people we moved to
52:42
reusable straws, or people who don't need a straw, didn't use a straw.
52:45
Like if we solve that problem, there's still a lot more plastic in the, in the
52:50
world that we need to need to address.
52:53
Right.
52:53
So it's not the big focus of our campaigns, right?
52:57
We're looking more at the single use plastic packaging and the plastic bags.
53:01
And the plastic foam, um, as a, you know, as this report mm-hmm.
53:06
Shares.
53:06
Um, so I think it has been really like that sea turtle really good in educating
53:12
people about that a problem exists.
53:15
Um, it is, it's not just about the straws, it's about so much.
53:19
Yeah, of course.
53:19
So much more so.
53:21
It is.
53:21
And I think that's important for people to keep in mind and to, and to know.
53:26
And we've just gotta keep educating people if they think it's been
53:30
solved 'cause we dealt with the straws or they don't wanna Yeah.
53:33
Talk about straws anymore.
53:34
There's Right.
53:35
A whole lot of other single use plastic that is having an
53:39
impact on the public's health.
53:41
It's on our oceans, on the marine wildlife.
53:44
All of those are things that we, we need to address.
53:48
Yeah, absolutely.
53:48
And, and I completely agree with you.
53:50
I just, I find it interesting that if people keep bringing it up and I'm
53:52
like, we're still focused on this, I could, I, I call it the gateway plastic,
53:56
you know, like the gateway drug.
53:57
Like it's a gateway plastic to really understanding us how our use of single
54:01
use plastics can affect the environment.
54:03
Um, I do love how, you know, the, the plastic foam was
54:07
the focus of this rapport.
54:09
I think breaking it down and really putting into pieces that people can
54:12
really understand and saying, Hey, look, if we take action on this and
54:16
we reduce this, this could have.
54:18
A really great benefit for our ocean health.
54:22
With that said, if this does get passed, what can, can people expect
54:28
to see with, with ocean health in terms of like even our own health
54:32
if this gets out of production?
54:35
Yes.
54:36
Well, so as we were just talking about with the straws, there'll still
54:38
be, there'll still be more to do.
54:39
It isn't the whole problem, but it is an important piece of the problem
54:43
and it is one of the most problematic ones that we should just move on for.
54:48
I think some of the things, we'll see it, it's currently one of the most
54:51
common types of plastic found in beach cleanups in the US and I believe that's
54:55
also true in other parts of the world.
54:57
So we should see a big decrease in that.
54:59
So that means there's less foam that's ending up on our beaches and in our
55:04
oceans, there'll be hopefully less.
55:07
Plastic foam coffee cups that people are drinking out of.
55:09
So it, it won't solve the whole problem, but it will make it so that we are
55:14
using less of this problematic chemical called styrene, that the little bits
55:19
and pieces of plastic foam are not breaking up and ending up in our, on our
55:25
coast, on the beaches, in our waterways.
55:27
And that animals then are ingesting it and either choking on it or just taking those
55:32
chemicals through their, their bodies.
55:34
So it will make a big impact and it should be a good first important step for the
55:40
US to do in terms of national policy.
55:43
There definitely will be more to do.
55:45
Um, yeah, and we can, for us, we can look to the states and to other countries to
55:49
see what else to do, but it is a good important first step that will have an
55:54
impact on the amount of plastic going into, into our oceans and that the
55:59
plastic that we're being exposed to.
56:01
Awesome.
56:02
Good.
56:02
Good to know.
56:03
Now if, you know, my audience is.
56:06
They're, they're ready.
56:06
They're hyped.
56:07
They're, they want to help.
56:08
They always ask Andrew, how can I help?
56:10
How can I help with this like, piece of legislation or policy to get through?
56:14
Or how can I help with this campaign?
56:16
So, you know, this is your chance.
56:18
Talk to directly to the audience and be like, how can they help with
56:22
this specific campaign for Oceania?
56:26
Great.
56:26
That is a, I love that question.
56:28
Um, because there's lots of things that folks can do to help.
56:31
The, um, biggest thing for folks in the US who are concerned about this issue, can
56:36
you, is talk to your members of Congress, ask, tell them about the problem of
56:41
plastic foam, tell 'em about the impacts on the oceans and the marine life and
56:45
human health, and ask them to support the bill, which is called the farewell,
56:50
the Foam Act, really straightforward.
56:52
Mm-hmm.
56:53
Phases out the single use plastic foam.
56:56
And we need, we need more supporters and we need more Democrats and more
57:00
Republicans to, to support the bill.
57:02
So that's a great thing that people in the, the US could do if you're
57:07
a member of Congress is already on board with that, talk to your, um,
57:10
state and local officials too about how they can, they can get involved.
57:15
Um, and in Canada, it seems like more work to do there too, but
57:19
you guys are on the, on the way.
57:22
Absolutely.
57:22
We have a, we have a little bit of a, a pipeline problem these
57:25
days, but we, that's a different issue and, and something that we
57:28
have to address in the long term.
57:30
But, uh, you know, our plastics, I'm very pleased that we, that we were
57:33
able to come up with, uh, like our, our government was able to come up with
57:36
that, um, in, uh, in a, in good time.
57:39
Like it was, it was really nice.
57:40
It was definitely needed and, and hopefully we, that can be expanded
57:44
upon and, and, and made even more prolific, uh, throughout the thing.
57:47
We see more changes.
57:48
So, I mean, it's, it's, once it's done.
57:50
And it's in, in effect.
57:52
It's, it's really nice to see, you know, the alternatives start to come out and
57:55
businesses be happy about it and stuff.
57:57
And, and I, I really, uh, I really look forward to seeing that in the
58:00
US as well when we, when we visit.
58:01
So, uh, Chrisy, thank you.
58:03
Me, me too.
58:04
Yeah, exactly right.
58:05
But I just wanna say I forced to share that with you.
58:07
Yep.
58:08
Yes.
58:08
Yes.
58:09
We'll have you back on to, to kind of give us an update on this, on
58:12
this policy and see where, where it went and what, how we can help in,
58:15
in other ways and, and so forth.
58:17
Um, my audience is your audience, so just let us know, you know,
58:20
what, what, what we can do.
58:21
'cause that's what we want to do.
58:22
We want help.
58:22
So, Christy, I wanna thank you so much, uh, for, for coming on the podcast
58:26
and sharing this with us is something that's extremely important to me.
58:29
I'm sure it's extremely important to the people listening to this, this episode.
58:32
And, and we really appreciate the help and the work that you and Oceania
58:35
have done over the years and continue to do, uh, now and in the future.
58:38
So thank you so much.
58:40
Thank you.
58:40
It's been such a pleasure.
58:41
Thank you, Christy, for joining us on today's episode of the How
58:44
to Protect the Ocean Podcast.
58:46
I am going to put the link for everybody who listened to this, to
58:49
the report in the show notes, so you can get access to that very quickly.
58:53
Highly recommend that you did.
58:54
It's very easy read, lots of pictures, lots of cool writings, and just kind of
58:58
a call to action, quick facts, so forth.
59:01
It's really great.
59:02
I think everybody should be reading something like this, even looking at these
59:06
little styrofoam pellets and how much they look like eggs and how much they can be
59:10
eaten or look like food, and they can be eaten by sea birds, sea turtles, marine
59:15
mammals such as seals and sea lions and dolphins, and orcas of all different fish.
59:21
Just all different sharks, all different types of animals
59:23
in the sea, but also on land.
59:25
So something that's very hazardous.
59:27
It's hazardous to us.
59:28
We know that for sure leeches out chemicals and there's no need
59:31
for them anymore with all the different types of alternatives.
59:33
So check out the call to action.
59:35
Do what you can.
59:36
Any kind of questions that you have, you can contact me.
59:40
You can go to speak up for blue.com/contact, and this goes
59:43
to Bright to my personal email.
59:44
You can also go to join the undertow that's at Speak up for blue.com/join
59:49
the undertow to be guided to look at how we can help more of these campaigns
59:54
in the future and help Oceania out and help Christie out and her colleagues
59:58
and their partners, of course.
59:59
But this is not the last you'll hear from Oceana.
1:00:01
We have a couple of other interviews lined up with different aspects of their
1:00:04
responsibilities and of their programs, and I can't wait to bring those to you
1:00:09
as well as updates to this campaign.
1:00:11
So I wanna thank you so much for joining me on today's episode of the
1:00:14
How to Protect the Ocean Podcast.
1:00:15
I'm your host, Andrew Lone from the True Nord strong and free.
1:00:18
Have a great day, we talk to you next time and happy conservation.