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The Journey from Addiction to Recovery: A Candid Talk with Lewis Finch · Finding New Waters

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If if there's a crisis and we to some degree that kind of came
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from my willingly days because we would, we would go above and
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beyond which I, you know again I that's that's a point of
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difference from a from a lot from us.
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I mean, so most other Iop's most I believe are either run by or
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controlled by clinicians. Sure, okay, there's nothing
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wrong with that, but they think like clinicians.
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So there's a, you guys have a protocol you have to follow,
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right. The things that you can't, can't
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do that I can do as an intervention as an example,
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right. So we, we pull out all the stops
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if we think it's if it's needed and that's everybody at Wellwind
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has done that. We've gone to people's homes
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when when we've gotten phone calls that they're in trouble
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and helped them go get into the hospital to detox or treatment.
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All right. So today on the Finding New
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Waters podcast, we have Louis Finch with us today as a guest.
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And Louis Finch is the founder of Wellwind Outpatient Center
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here in Raleigh, NC You're correct, Sir.
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And and we're we're pleased to have you with us.
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We appreciate you taking some time out of your day.
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Well, thank you. Absolutely.
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Our days are pretty empty these days.
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Are they? So, you know, so am I retired.
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Well, that's cool. I'm glad to hear that.
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I did not know that. I know a time very, not very
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long ago where your days were not very empty.
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No, they were not. But yeah, it's nice to get old
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and do what I'm doing now. But yeah, that's cool.
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That's cool. So, so Louis, would you mind
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maybe maybe we could start by just telling the audience, you
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know, a little bit about you and kind of wellwind and how things
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started and all that good stuff. So I am 67 years old.
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I got sober at 51, so you can do the math on that.
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And it was a it was a pretty rocky ride.
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I started drinking and doing other things at the age of 13
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and so I had about a 38 year drinking and drugging career.
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But during that time span I was also a fairly successful
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businessman. I founded an advertising agency
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that at one time was a fairly large player in the market here
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in Raleigh, primarily because of our largest account little
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sandwich chain called Subway. But during that time period, my
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addiction ramped up pretty quickly.
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When I got sober, I ended up going to a small treatment
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center down in Georgia, willing way, which some of you may know,
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and coming out. And after I got sober, in order,
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the very next year my father died.
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The After that, my wife died and the year after that my mother
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died. Now I'm sober, but I am that
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shit crazy. OKI mean, I'm it's I'm out of my
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mind. So I ended up selling the agency
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and literally spreading all all the stuff that I had.
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We saw sold our homes, sold our. I gave our furniture away to my
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my daughter's and I'm. I moved up to a lake about an
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hour north of here and a buddy's double wide mobile home and just
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tried to repair myself. What I realized was, and that
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was my that was my first retirement.
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What I realized was I don't do very well at retirement.
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So when I say I'm semi, I'll be semi retired so I'll drop dead.
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But when I was up there, it allowed me to focus on a lot of
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things, one of which was my recovery.
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And I ended up going back to work for the same treatment
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center that I went to as the admissions and marketing
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director. I learned the business of
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addiction treatment from the ground up.
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So everybody who came in there, I met, I met their families.
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I got to work really at a very, very base level I got to work.
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So we we had virtually no advertising budget.
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I mean it was a it was a kind of a joke.
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So I was able to convince them the people owned at the time to
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let me contact the folks at the intervention TV show the A&E put
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on. So we had during that time
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period we got we had three three of their clients that came
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through us and we got we actually we didn't know we got
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national exposure there. We also got it on Doctor Phil,
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but and where I'm going with this is I learned the the
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business of interventions too. That's what introduced me to it.
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About a year into my stay with them, it was apparent they were
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going to be sold. So I came back to Raleigh and I
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had this idea my head for a a outpatient treatment center.
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I really didn't. I'll be honest with you.
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I didn't really understand it. All I knew was that when I went
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to treatment at 51, I was in there with 18 and 20 year old
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meth and heroin addicts. I mean, other than the fact that
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we're suffering from the same disease, I didn't have a whole
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lot of life experience that they had.
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Most of these people didn't had, hadn't even had jobs.
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So I thought to myself, what if you could build something that
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would appeal primarily to executives, professionals and
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their families? That's what Owen is it It it
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serves A niche population of people who I now know if there
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if if we weren't there, a good chunk of them wouldn't get help
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or they would they would they would come out of their
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experience criticizing what they've gone through in like
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case because they wouldn't they wouldn't be with their peer.
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So ours is a peer peer-to-peer. I mean you you guys know this.
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It's there are treatment centers that cater to emerging adults,
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men, women. So it's really no different than
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that. It's just we, we took a
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demographic that I felt like was underserved and we applied
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certain things, something, certain things to it like you
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know, it's really nice a lot like a lot like new orders,
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right. It's one of the reasons we refer
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here. Our folks are great fits for you
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guys and we treat people like adults.
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I mean it's it's it really does boil down to that we're very
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holistic in nature and we've been we opened in May of 2016.
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So we're we've been open over 7 years.
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So Radio 7 Seven anniversary. Yeah it really is and we've done
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we've I I think we've done some really good things.
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I'm I'm, I'm, I'm pleased from that standpoint.
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So that's great. Cool.
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What are you going to do now with your semi retirement?
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Keep yourself busy. I'm.
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I'm well, getting back to the intervention thing.
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So when we first opened up, we were having people come to us
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who typically would be our clients, like older adults,
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people my age even, who had children who needed help.
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They didn't know where to go. This is, this is strictly my my
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opinion. They came to us because they
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felt comfortable, because of because we were, we appealed to
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an older group, right? And as a result we were
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referring to interventionist. And I was getting blowback from
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a number of people I referred to.
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They they either weren't doing the job or they weren't doing
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the job that the client expected them to do.
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So I said well you know what, if I'm going to get criticism, I'm
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going to build into my business model.
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So several of us went off and got trained to how to do
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interventions. Now again if you remember I told
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you I'd I had some help in that because I'm the the the
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interventions on the show intervention really helped me
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and just simple conversations with them and and watching how
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they dealt with it. To to answer your question, I, I
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Justin, I couldn't do what you do.
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I've I've said this I sitting here sitting across from
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somebody and listening to their them whine and complaining all
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day long. It's not it's not my idea of fun
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right. I can take short short bursts of
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that. That's what I like about that
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process because it usually is a I don't know the most a one
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month process. In most cases it's a week, in
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some cases a day. So that's and that's so we've
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over the last, I don't know seven well we yes, we did do
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them seven years ago we didn't do as many.
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We've probably done 100 and 5200 interventions and you know it,
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you know up to this point everybody we've intervened on
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has gotten help. That's great but it's because we
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we use tactics and because the the client in our case is the
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person who's coming to us for help.
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It's not the person of concern like the the attic or alcoholic.
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If we can get the parent or the spouse moving in a certain
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direction usually that will trigger the person concern to go
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to get go get help and and and you know do what they need to do
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and then we also we we we case manage folks.
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But I, I, I moved to a lake about an hour away from here and
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I spend a good chunk of my time with my grandchildren and my my
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daughters. That's great.
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Yeah. Yeah.
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So that's great. But I still come in, you know.
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Still staying active. I mean, I I I think I know you
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have known you for a while now anyway, and I feel like I know
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you well enough to her. I can't imagine.
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You would ever be able to completely pull away from it And
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I learned that when I retired that first time it was I was.
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I mean to say I was miserable is an understatement.
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I just I've got to I've got to keep moving and I you know I've
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heard that I think some to some statistic that if you once you
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retire you're dead within two years or something.
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Some I can say that because with without that purpose in life,
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there's really no motivation. And you know this, the work we
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do guys is a whole lot different than, you know, in my past
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advertising career. If I made a mistake, the worst
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thing that would happen in a commercial would run wrong,
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right? In this, in this particular
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case, people die. That's the truth and lives are
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ruined. So this is really, really
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important stuff we're doing. And I think you mentioned
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purpose and I think that's true for the, the, the clients that
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we serve, right. Is that you know really at the
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at the essence of it all, I think that's what we're trying
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to do in this, in this industry as a whole is trying to help
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help people find that purpose again essentially, right?
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Yeah, absolutely. It's not always.
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It's not always evident either. Speaking of purpose of I was, I
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was. I've been sober about five
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months. I got sober, went back to my
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job, and then resigned. And then all I did was play golf
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and go to a a meetings for like 5 or six months.
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I had lunch with my stepfather one day and he said, so what's
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going on with the work? And I, you know, I said, well,
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I've been doing this and doing that and you know, I'm sober.
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And one of these meetings he said, well, I'm so happy for
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you. I'm so proud of you.
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It may have been the same day. I actually made an amends to him
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and we were having lunch and he said but what you need a
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purpose. And I, you know, I was sitting
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there just Tooting my own horn for being sober for five whole
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months and then but you know I look back on that time and it
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was really dangerous to have that much time off newly sober
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or or anytime. And I and I know what you mean.
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I mean, I I, when I'm, I'm nice to be a loaf.
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And now if I'm not doing something, I feel I feel almost
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guilty about it. You know, I have to be almost
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told by my friends in recovery to take some time and just hang
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out because I. I I need a purpose and I have an
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amazing purpose. Now it's not just a job, you
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know, because I did have a job for a couple years in sobriety
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before I started working in this field.
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And like you said, you know, yes and in the wrong, you know,
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invoice to somebody three or four years ago for me would be
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the worst thing that happened. But now it's like, you know,
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somebody is not getting help and that can lead to death or worse.
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And I talked to family sometimes when I'm talking about what
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could happen, I say, you know, he or she can end up dead or
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worse. And they say what can be, what
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can be worse. And I say, you know, they they
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hurt or kill somebody and they stay alive, you know, And so it
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is we are, we are doing important work.
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It's funny you should bring us up real early.
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When we opened up we had a situation where a mother called
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in and her son who was going to East Carolina had come home the
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weekend the day the day before and had they had found white
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powder which turned out to be heroin and she was asking what
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we should we put for our again the intervention kind of thing
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question he wouldn't have been a fit for us because he was a
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college kid but she want she want to know what to do and and
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you know we said you need to get him treatment now.
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Well it was the end of the semester and he had to take
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exams. This was on a Monday.
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He had an exam on Thursday and went on Friday and she said
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we'll get him in here. And he also he was going to, he
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was going to graduate on Saturday.
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OK so Thursday, Friday, Saturday.
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He died Friday night and it what that taught me because you can
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soft pedal this if you. I mean you can you know you can
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I don't soft pedal anymore. I've seen if you've been in this
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business long enough you've seen the the the problems that come
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with this and it. I mean so that family has
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changed now forever. It'll never be that they'll
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never they'll never have grandchildren from him.
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They'll always they'll be always a whole someone in that family
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and I don't. I when I talk to particularly
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parents of kids and I've got 6 grandchildren.
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I I'm thinking of them the whole time because I know how I would
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do if I if I found anything and my grandkids know my story and
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you can I just. I don't soft pedal anymore.
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You can't. It's too.
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It's too. It means too much.
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Yeah, absolutely. You know, and that's that's a
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horrible story. But I think the reality is, is
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that we do, we hear those kinds of stories all the time.
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It's unfortunate, you know and I think.
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You know, a message to get across to people is exactly
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that. And I know we have these kinds
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of conversations. I know you do all the time.
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Is that when, when when you're on the phone with someone or
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you're seeking help, like if it's gotten to a point to where
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like there is an issue and someone is trying to address it,
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right to your point, Louis, I think the the time to take
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action is then, right. Not tomorrow, not a week later.
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And especially, you know, at New Waters, I mean.
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Primarily what we do is is detox and stabilization.
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So it's it's always interesting even though we see it over and
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over again it's very interesting how we're we're on the phone
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with someone on the on the kind of pre admission side of things.
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And they're trying to kind of, you know, quote UN quote
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scheduled. They're negotiating.
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Right. They're negotiating,
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negotiating. It's not.
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Yeah, it really is. It's right.
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Because, yeah, absolutely. So it's well and you know,
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there's no one comes on in here on a winning streak.
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Right, right. No, absolutely.
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Things are not usually several things have happened.
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There's usually one final event that somebody's in their in
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their history or that it could be the legal system.
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It could be a parent or a spouse or their employer.
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Yeah, but you I I jokingly say no one walks through our front
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door with a smile on their face. Yeah.
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You're exactly right. Yeah.
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So people will try to, you know, they're trying to schedule their
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admission, right. And we get it, right.
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We get it. Life's going on.
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There's things that are happening.
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You know, kids got to go to things like all all the excuses
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and all the reasons, real reasons.
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However, that story is a good representation of Let's know the
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story here. So we had a a a woman I would
17:35
say 45 ish or so who kept calling and talking to us about
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coming in. But she could not She she
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couldn't work it around her work.
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She could not. You know we have we have three
17:47
groups and they she couldn't get it to work around her schedule
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but she kept calling and her situation kept getting worse and
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worse every call she made when the last time she called we
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scheduled for her to come in and and she she was planning on
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coming to the program the very next day.
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Her children were taken away from her and she didn't she
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never came in because it was over with you know and and
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that's we the other thing I was telling somebody this the other
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day you you've if you remember before COVID more people were
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dying from alcohol related abuse alcohol related abuse alcohol
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abuse then we're from drugs overdoses.
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You look you look it up I think it's like I think the number is
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like 70,000 people of from alcohol and maybe 55 but the
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number was growing. Right.
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The the the the problem now is it's so dire.
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I mean it's it's one thing to drink yourself to death.
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Another thing to to snort what you think is coke, right?
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Or Or, you know, shoot up what you think is heroin and it turns
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out to be fentanyl. Yeah, And.
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And you're done. You're toast.
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Yeah. And we see that.
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I'm sure you guys do too. But on a, you know, sometimes
19:11
daily basis, individuals that were, yeah, they thought they
19:14
were snorting cocaine or they thought they were taking, you
19:17
know, pills that they were getting from a friend.
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I mean and and just the whole spectrum of individuals and
19:22
walks of life that come in here and it's not until they're here.
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And we're doing a drug test and finding out what's going on that
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that they are very amazed that they have fentanyl on their
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system and it happens all the time.
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And then of course there's a portion of individuals that
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they're very aware that that's what's going on.
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But it happens all the time, right?
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I mean, it's a, you know, a stay at home mom or I mean just
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literally anybody, right. And and they come in and they're
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like, well, I'm just doing XY&Z and then they're very taken
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aback when we're like, well, you have fentanyl in your system,
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you know and. That really changes the
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trajectory of the the Detox right and luckily the the media
19:56
is playing it up. Yeah, yeah they are but but at
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the same time the the alcohol related stuff we so we've had
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five people who were in our program that once they
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discharged died 5 four of them for alcohol one for drugs right
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which doesn't match the the narrative you hear in the media
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but that's but again. It takes you a while to to drink
20:23
yourself to death. You can die from a heroin
20:26
overdose or a fentanyl overdose the second you do it, as you
20:29
know, and then talking about the when coronavirus hit.
20:34
None of us were prepared for that.
20:37
I know you guys have seen this, but there's been a uptick in
20:42
mental health issues as well. And you had, you know, people
20:46
having wine parties at home by themselves.
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And so last fall we applied for our mental health license.
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And so we're now a duly licensed addiction and mental health
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treatment program that's an outpatient basis.
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So, yeah, we we can, we can treat practically anybody who
21:07
comes in the door, I mean to some degree where it's still
21:10
outpatient, I mean. So let's talk about that a
21:12
little bit because I know you know, just for anybody that's
21:15
that's watching or listening to this.
21:18
More specifically, like the levels of care and like what you
21:20
guys do, so it is outpatient. So there's no kind of
21:22
residential component to it whatsoever.
21:24
Yeah, it's, it's, it's the term is in IOP and it basically boils
21:32
down to your attending group sessions and some individual
21:38
sessions. And of the course of a week you
21:40
might get 10 hours or more of therapy as opposed to say when
21:45
you get a residential treatment you would be, you know, you'd be
21:50
there 24 hours a day and be monitored.
21:52
Well like you guys, you'd be here you know observed heavily
21:55
for you know 7 to 10 days, but yeah and that and out.
22:03
So they're they're different levels of it.
22:05
Obviously there's PHP partial hospitalization.
22:09
You guys know it's a more intense, it's like I refer to it
22:12
as residential treatment in your own bed because you you, I don't
22:16
think you can work. I guess you could be kind of
22:18
difficult. But yeah we're at we're A and
22:22
and the reason that when I chose the business model, I did the
22:27
reason I chose IOP, there's a study online that some
22:33
government agency did. I've got a copy of it.
22:37
I just don't but it but it was done about comparing residential
22:40
treatment to an intensive outpatient is what we are and it
22:45
showed the results were about the same which I found
22:48
fascinating. Why would you go away.
22:51
Well the answer is very simple you brought up you need to be
22:54
stabilized right Most you can't be coming into our groups doing
22:59
your drug of choice it doesn't work very well.
23:02
So you know that's the we've done you know that people try
23:07
it. People try it all the time.
23:08
But so intensive outpatient is is to me is unique because it
23:14
allows you to come in on Monday, get some help, leave and go home
23:19
and interact with your family and friends, sleep at home,
23:24
think about what you've learned, spend another day in the real
23:28
world, then come in for treatment the next day and
23:32
process it. Which, and it's in its real
23:36
world, it's not a bubble. It's damn near impossible to
23:43
relapse when you're in residential treatment program.
23:46
You got to. Really work at it.
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You can, you can relapse all the time in intensive outpatient,
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but it's the work that you do to get someone away from that
23:55
mindset that really to me separates people, that separates
24:01
residential treatment from intensive outpatient.
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What percentage of your clients as well when come from
24:08
residential treatment versus? They're stabilized to come in or
24:12
or they come from a place like well and you guys are in that
24:16
same boat. I mean you guys, you guys refer
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to us. That's correct, I want to say.
24:24
But I mean residential like a 28 to 30 day program versus just
24:27
detox, Yeah, didn't need maybe maybe 25%.
24:33
Come from treatment centers, yeah.
24:34
Okay, gotcha or or they've they may not be referred from the
24:38
treatment center, but well that's not true that I think
24:42
it's about 25%. And then remember it as I, as I
24:48
brought up at the beginning, no one wants to go to treatment, so
24:51
they'll do anything they can to get it okay.
24:54
So that's so it would probably be a lot higher if they
24:56
recognize what they were doing. I mean because if you, if you're
25:00
and Justin you and I know you you've done the screenings all
25:03
the time and and assessments. If you do the assessment right,
25:08
you should know from the assessment if the person's a fit
25:09
for an intensive outpatient versus PHP or residential.
25:13
So we don't keep people just because they want to come to us.
25:19
Now if they are too acute we might give them some parameters
25:25
around which they they can't. You know they got to test
25:28
negative for whatever substance is and they we can we can
25:33
quickly have a plan for them. But it it doesn't behoove us to
25:36
bring somebody in. It's been disruptive.
25:38
Well, you rant used to run groups for us, that's exactly.
25:40
Right. Usually it's very disruptive to
25:42
have somebody in there, right? Oh, absolutely.
25:44
OK. Yeah.
25:45
No. Habits here, but they're they're
25:46
already here. Right.
25:49
One thing I'll comment on just as you mentioned you know
25:52
previous history Full disclosure actually did used to work for
25:56
for Lewis back in 2017 some some combination of that right so.
26:04
One thing I think just to sing the praises of Wellwind a little
26:07
bit here that I think you guys do different than a lot of other
26:11
IOPS. Your typical kind of standard
26:14
IOP setup is that you guys are really typically willing to
26:18
really pull out all the stops and meet the client where they
26:20
are. So even though it is intensive
26:22
outpatient IOP which is like you said about 10 hours a week, I
26:25
mean I know from first hand experience you know if a client.
26:29
Meets that criteria for that outpatient level of care, but
26:32
they really need more, you know, support than just 10 hours a
26:36
week. I've seen you guys, I mean, just
26:37
time and time again be able to just kind of create something
26:41
that's going to work for them, which is really cool.
26:42
Well, it is cool. I didn't know everybody didn't
26:45
do that when we first opened up. Sure I didn't.
26:48
I thought it was just part of the gig.
26:49
You know if if there's a crisis and we to some degree that kind
26:53
of came from my willingly days because we would, we would go
26:58
above and beyond which I, you know again I that's that's a
27:04
point of difference from a from a lot from us.
27:07
I mean so most other IOPS most I believe are either run by or
27:13
controlled by clinicians, OK there's nothing wrong with that
27:21
but they think like clinicians. So there's a, you guys have a
27:25
protocol you have to follow, right?
27:27
The things that you can't, can't do that I can do as an
27:30
interventionist as an example, right.
27:32
So we we pull out all the stops if it we think it's if it's
27:36
needed and that's everybody at Wellwind has done that.
27:40
We've gone to people's homes when when we've gotten phone
27:43
calls that they're in trouble and help them go get into the
27:47
hospital to detox or treatment. Have you brought them directly?
27:54
Yep. Yeah.
27:55
Right now we have a former client who they're customized, a
27:58
treatment plan where they go see her at her house and do do what
28:01
needs to be done. Yeah.
28:02
Which is great. I mean I think that's just great
28:04
because the reality is, is there is this kind of Gray area I
28:07
think that exists in between like residential treatment like
28:09
you said, which you know, I think is absolutely appropriate
28:12
in certain cases, right, but. There's just a big difference in
28:16
between that 24 hour supervision and support that's offered at
28:19
the residential level and and I an outpatient level regardless,
28:23
even if that is a partial hospitalization where they're
28:25
doing 2025 hours a week, there's still gaps there, right?
28:28
I mean they if they're early enough in their recovery
28:30
process, they're still going to be struggling with cravings and
28:33
just emotional dysregulation and things like that.
28:36
And there's just there's nothing really in between those two
28:39
levels of care. And again, I think that's
28:42
something that's really unique about Wellwin is the fact that
28:44
you guys can just pull in other services, right?
28:46
Be able to, you know, go into the home, whether that's, you
28:49
know, a sober coach that can be there, that you guys can employ
28:52
to work with you guys, just checking in on them, having them
28:55
come into the office. And do I remember, you know,
28:57
back when I was with Wellwin, we'd have people, I'm sure you
28:59
guys probably still do this like.
29:02
They worked from home and like, it just didn't make sense for
29:04
them to be in the house working alone.
29:06
So they would just bring in their computers.
29:09
I forget about that. But yeah, we had several people.
29:11
We had one young lady who studied for and got her master's
29:15
degree on our couch. That's great, but that's but to
29:20
your point, she couldn't stay home.
29:22
She was going to. She was going to do something
29:24
that she shouldn't do at home. So we just say come in, eat, eat
29:27
our snacks. We order lunch when it's time
29:30
for lunch, sit down and enjoy the couch.
29:32
And she did, and it's and she's, to my knowledge, she's still
29:36
sober. That's awesome.
29:37
That is awesome, but that's again, it goes back to that, you
29:40
know, it's probably, there's probably some problem with that
29:44
in the in your field. Okay, it's not in mine.
29:47
Yeah, I hear you so. Yeah.
29:50
And that's great man. I think it's great because you
29:53
know again I think we have to be able to meet clients where they
29:56
are right and everybody's you needs needs are unique and and
29:59
different and. You know, I think that's
30:02
something that's very concierge about about well, when is the
30:05
fact that you guys are willing to, you know work with them and
30:07
identify what those needs are and just get creative about, you
30:10
know, how can you help help them right.
30:13
Well, and I I was thinking about this the other day when when
30:18
someone when someone comes in, when someone calls in, we set up
30:22
two screenings, excuse me, 3 screenings.
30:27
One is a the the typical screening that a therapist would
30:31
do. The second one is a cultural
30:35
screening, and it may may sound bougie, but it's meant to
30:41
protect them and us, because if they're not a fit culturally for
30:46
us, we have to figure out where we want to refer them to.
30:51
As an example, we had a a father.
30:58
No actually it's not true. Your guest in your last show
31:02
trip, Trip Johnson called me up one day and said I've got a 20
31:06
year old college student. I think it would be a good fit
31:08
for you. And Trip knows who we see and he
31:12
got, I said he I said well trip that didn't sound like somebody
31:14
that we could take in. He said just talk to him.
31:17
This kid was much more mature than I am at 20 in NBA school.
31:22
I think at 20 he just couldn't stop drinking and so we talked
31:28
to his parents, we talked to him and we I interviewed him and at
31:32
least one of the person interviewed him and he really,
31:35
really wanted to come in. So we said well we we'll give it
31:37
a shot It he went he didn't he did everything he was asked to
31:41
do and he he felt more at home because not not there's anything
31:46
wrong at all with Greenhill. They address a population I
31:49
wouldn't, I wouldn't touch. Right.
31:51
Because, I mean, they're so, but he wasn't going to fit in with
31:54
that group. Does that make sense?
31:56
Yeah. Yeah.
31:57
Absolutely. I've heard you tell me that.
31:58
I've heard that story before. Well and it it so we and then in
32:02
addition to the the those two, the other two screening, we'd
32:05
also do a financial screening Okay and it that's not to
32:12
convince them to come into our program.
32:14
They're either going to do it or they're not.
32:17
But it's to figure out if they can't come into our program,
32:19
what's the best next option. I think that's I think I want to
32:23
say 90% of the people who contact us and come in are
32:28
referred somewhere else either do you guys for detox or to
32:33
residential treatment program for again stabilization or or or
32:38
to another IOP. Yeah, that's great.
32:42
I mean, I I would say somewhere between 80 and 90% of the calls
32:45
we get referred to somebody for whatever reason, whether it's
32:49
wrong level of care, insurance, resources, whatever it is.
32:53
But but you know that you're going to refer them to the best
32:56
place. They would never know where to
32:58
go. Exactly.
32:59
And I think that's, you know, one of the marks of a quality
33:01
treatment center, right, is that, you know, you're not,
33:04
you're not an establishment that's going to just try and
33:07
make it work whatever it is, right, Is that you really
33:09
understand, you know, what you do, what you do well.
33:13
And if that person's not going to be a good fitter, you're not
33:15
going to be able to provide the services that are going to meet
33:17
their needs, then that is our job, right?
33:19
It's our role to find them, the place that can provide that, you
33:22
know. And well, when like new Waters
33:25
are independent and not affiliated or owned by anybody
33:28
else, so we're only going to send them to what makes sense
33:30
and exactly, you know, no expectations for like the
33:32
mothership to get them somewhere.
33:34
Else or anything like that, absolutely, absolutely.
33:36
Well and they they look when when when anyone comes to either
33:42
us or you guys they have no clue they're they're they don't
33:47
they've been told us that they'll Google everything and
33:50
everybody's website looks great except mine.
33:53
Okay everybody's website looks awesome but but there we know
34:00
the the good programs from the bad ones because we we
34:03
intentionally get to know that was the other.
34:06
So I forgot to mention this. So we as a result of of when we
34:10
first got into the the business that there was virtually no
34:13
collaboration going on. None.
34:15
You had two camps, you had the UNC Healthcare camp, you had the
34:19
the Duke Hospital camp and they weren't talking to each other
34:22
either and they weren't referring to hardly anybody.
34:25
So we started having a, we started a networking event.
34:31
We do it once a month. It's done the third Thursday of
34:34
every month and it we'll see anywhere between 35 and 95
34:42
people therapist other treatment providers in the in the market
34:46
or even outside of the market will come to it, come to it.
34:49
And it's created this dynamic where it really opens up the
34:55
well you you had. You had your trip on last week,
34:59
you had the week before, didn't you?
35:01
Have I saw her, the therapist? Which one?
35:07
There's been a lot. We have a lot.
35:09
That's kind of well, anyway, so but that's the that's the way we
35:14
get to know these people, although otherwise otherwise we
35:16
wouldn't. That's true.
35:18
So that to me is probably just as important as getting them
35:23
into treatment, getting to the right place, you know?
35:26
Absolutely, and I'm going to toot y'alls horn, Graham came.
35:32
I met Graham when I first got into the business.
35:36
I was on to moments of change down in West Palm and I think
35:41
his when he was he was the business development person for
35:49
voyage voyage voyage Voyage treatment center, Voyage
35:54
Recovery. And I ran into you know and he
35:59
took me over to the facility and showed it to me and and I really
36:03
didn't even understand what I was looking at back then.
36:05
I was, you know seven years ago. But he he he stuck with me and
36:09
he he, you know, I learned because that's one of the first
36:14
people that ever paid any attention to me at all.
36:17
Okay. I'm just I'm this guy from North
36:20
Carolina has this IOP that just opened up and you know So what.
36:24
Right. Well over time over the years he
36:28
and I kind of stayed in touch with one another what, anything.
36:30
I don't even think I referred to him until until he left down to
36:35
voyage. But about 2 1/2 or three years
36:39
ago he called me up and he said he's coming into town and he he
36:42
presented this idea to me of a of a of a detox.
36:45
Well I we we we need a detox so badly in this area.
36:49
You guys know this this is the probably the one thing that's
36:53
been missing. And I was I was elated.
36:57
I was absolutely elated. So I mean that's one of the
37:02
reasons that we refer to you guys every chance we get because
37:06
I know what again a referral for me is my reputation on the line
37:11
as is yours to me. So you've got to be able to
37:14
count on that person to deliver what they say they're going to
37:16
do and that's you guys deliver and that's but it's kind of
37:21
round about weight. So when when Graham put this
37:26
program together, I was probably the single biggest advocate and
37:32
I he he knows it too because I was I I could I was chomping a
37:35
bit, particularly given how close you guys are to.
37:37
Us. Yeah, absolutely.
37:38
You know somebody walking our stumble in our door and we can
37:41
tell them they can walk in here and stumble in usual.
37:42
Exactly. That's true.
37:45
You guys are 5 minutes maybe it's yeah it's 4.3 miles so well
37:52
and again you what you represent what we represent.
37:54
Yeah, that's true. You know, it's a lot of
37:56
synergies there for sure. Absolutely.
38:00
So I'm trying to think so you were talking about the IOP.
38:03
You did say you recently got license for the mental health,
38:05
so I'm glad you probably okay. So again, not knowing what
38:10
mental health IOP means, just being we were actually
38:13
encouraged to open it because there's a, again, there's a
38:17
flood of people seeking mental health treatment.
38:21
Absolutely. And people we have a, we have a
38:26
fairly good reputation. I think we have to say that and
38:29
and so we were actually fast tracked by the state on our
38:33
license. It was a lot quicker than we
38:36
anticipated. I did not know that mental
38:42
health IOP was different from addiction.
38:47
That's another reason I don't. I'm not a therapist, right.
38:50
I hire people with a lot more common sense than I do and and
38:54
it's it's a more structured process because evidently those
38:58
people are a lot more fragile and things can trigger them a
39:02
whole lot quicker I've been told.
39:05
So the IOP process is very the IOP mental health process is
39:10
more structured. It has a curriculum that you
39:14
really don't waiver from. So you know in in IOP, typical
39:17
IOP, you'll the therapist will come in with a plan.
39:22
But the plan can blow up if someone comes in the group and
39:25
and reports that they're having a problem.
39:27
Right. You've seen it, right?
39:29
Okay. I don't know.
39:30
I don't necessarily think that happens that much And with the
39:34
mental health side, now it if someone comes in obviously
39:37
distressed and I'm sure they're going to address it but it's
39:40
it's just more structured process.
39:44
The other thing I was going to say too we one of the things I'm
39:47
most proud of with us, I did a I looked at, I looked back at our
39:54
our, our clientele 2 years ago and last year and this year the
40:03
average stay at at us. And this includes somebody who
40:06
would come in and stay for a day and leave or could be a guy
40:11
who's been there and he's gone through IOP, he's in continuing
40:15
care and and or he's doing individual counseling.
40:18
The average stay for a person in that census was 120 days. 122
40:24
days. Wow, that's great.
40:26
And you and I know that the key to recovery is length of time
40:31
and consistency. Absolutely.
40:32
You have a better chance the longer you're there.
40:34
I mean, even residential treatment programs, you're
40:36
better off keeping them 90 days if you can, in 30 days.
40:39
So I think we do a really, really good job in that regard
40:44
of making it a place they want to stay because they don't have
40:47
to stay with us. I mean there there plenty of
40:50
other places in town to to get help, sure.
40:53
But that's one thing I've always been proud of that that number
40:57
to me and I I didn't realize that was that that unique?
41:01
So question for you around that, what do you think it is?
41:03
And I know we're talking a lot about the things that make well,
41:05
one different, but what do you think is the the thing if you
41:08
had to put your finger on? Yeah, I knew.
41:09
You going to ask me that? What's the thing that makes them
41:12
want to stay? I don't know.
41:13
I I've been we, we again, we have a a mindset.
41:23
We have a mindset there. And you, you can't last if if
41:26
you don't match our culture, you're not going to wait.
41:29
You're not going to last very long.
41:30
I mean, you're not. I mean, we have people come and
41:32
go, but they're coming and going for most of the time.
41:35
All the right reasons, like they're going to moving.
41:37
They're moving their careers on, right.
41:39
You're a good example, right? But the people who come in have
41:43
the mindset of being. I'm trying to think of the
41:51
servants hearts, that's I think that's the key to what we do.
41:57
That regardless of whether that person who calls in and we have
42:01
people who call in all the time who absolutely you can tell the
42:03
phone they're not going to be a client of ours okay for whatever
42:06
reason. We don't just kick them off the
42:09
phone. We will.
42:10
We'll everybody's asked to come in.
42:13
Everybody is screened and then we provide them with an
42:16
alternative if we're not it. And I to that point, I don't.
42:21
I think that's the difference and we don't always get it
42:25
right, but what we we bent over backwards to so that we can we
42:31
can rest at night, absolutely. Absolutely 100.
42:36
Percent I would have said the answer to that would be the same
42:41
way that new Waters is very nice.
42:43
Very nice facility. Well, one's a very nice
42:45
facility, very welcoming and but all that's material I know it's
42:50
all about, it's all about the people and the people and
42:52
they're doing the next right thing.
42:53
And I mean I'll I feel love in there when I go in there and
42:56
everybody seems to be very happy in there and that you know it's
42:59
it's and I don't I honestly don't I can't take credit for
43:04
it. I mean I I can may I I am no
43:07
longer at the top of the food chain.
43:08
Will guest is. He's our new CEO in that way
43:11
since the first of the year and I've been looking for somebody
43:15
for I, you know an old man right?
43:18
OKI had hair when I started this.
43:21
No I did No I don't lie now so I was but in in this is another
43:26
ironic I just thought about this.
43:28
So Will is exactly 25 years younger than me.
43:31
Oh well. And I've been looking for a
43:33
successor someone to take literally.
43:36
He was born the same day I was born.
43:38
Really. How about that, January the 3rd?
43:40
How about that? Only 25 years before, but he
43:44
carries that, that on. He's probably, if I would, he's
43:48
probably a softer, gentler version of me, I think.
43:52
I don't know. It maybe hasn't been beaten down
43:56
by life like I have. But, but he's he's he, he, he
44:00
fulfills what I felt like was needing that position.
44:04
It's a good, good pick I think. I think and I don't know, he
44:07
just he plopped in my lap. So you know you brought the,
44:14
the, the, the, the, the nice, the look of the place, right,
44:18
the the, the appearance of the place.
44:20
It it I did the math on it. It's amazing to me how little
44:25
difference it was to buy the stuff we bought to fill the
44:29
place. I mean we've got antiques there.
44:32
You know some of it was given to us, we've got, but our furniture
44:35
is nice and comfortable. The cost difference to run to
44:38
that to to build that out was not a whole lot more if at all,
44:44
then if you just did the basic clinical look and it it's it's
44:53
it's just more, it's more, it feels more warm, right?
44:55
Absolutely. We've got 2 rooms that that no
45:00
therapy's done in that. The two biggest rooms in the
45:02
entire place, one on the mental health side and one on the
45:04
addiction side. And it's just a place for people
45:07
to gather. It's where that girl, young
45:08
girl, sat and got her MB A that's great.
45:12
Or masters whatever it was. But yeah, that's.
45:14
But that's and that's kind of to the difference, right?
45:16
Yeah. Well, it's a reflection too of
45:18
of how how things go there too. Yes.
45:21
But it's really all about the people and the ethos that you
45:24
practice there. And we've had, you know, we've
45:27
had issues from time to time, but we like any business, right.
45:32
But and I I tell I said look don't let the clients see the
45:38
sausage being made, just feeding the sausage okay because if you
45:43
if you watch the sausage being made you won't eat it okay and
45:46
it's and every business is like that you always there's always
45:48
this chaos in the back that you don't want your clients to see
45:52
particularly our clients who are you know going through some
45:56
lights tough stuff in life. Absolutely.
45:59
Absolutely. Cool.
46:01
Well, Louis, we appreciate it. I appreciate you.
46:03
Can Louis chat with us? It's a pleasure.
46:06
And guys, we'll make sure to put like in the show notes.
46:09
We'll make sure to put some links to to Well Win and the
46:13
website. So if you want to learn more
46:14
about Well Win, we'll put some information there where you can
46:17
read a little bit more on the website.
46:18
Even though Lewis says it's not a great one, we we think it is.
46:21
Well, again, coming from the advertising world, I'm very
46:25
critical of it, but you know, it is what it is, right?
46:28
And we'll we'll also make sure to put contact information as
46:30
well because. Another thing I know that
46:32
Wellwin does is anybody can call you guys and you're willing to
46:35
bring them in and do a screen and like you said, whether a
46:38
good fit for Wellwin or if they need other services, you guys
46:41
will help navigate them through that process.
46:42
So to that point we get, we're getting calls for folks needing
46:46
medication management, Matt. Sure, MAT.
46:51
And we don't chase them away. We don't give them a number.
46:55
We ask them to come in. We have a conversation to fair
46:58
exactly what it is they they need.
47:00
That's great. And then we refer them to the
47:02
proper to the best next option. That's great.
47:05
Yeah. Yeah.
47:06
So that's a huge service, hugely needed service for sure.
47:11
So again, Louis, thank you. It's always a pleasure hanging
47:13
out with you, man. Are you going to come back to
47:15
work for me? I'm not going to answer Graham.
47:18
Graham, I'm. Sorry, Graham, I'm not approve
47:21
of that. You're right.
47:21
You're ready. I'm just.
47:24
All right. Lewis.
47:24
Thanks, man. Thank you for talking to you
47:26
again soon. OK.
47:26
Thanks guys. Thanks.
47:27
Appreciate it. Thanks for having me.