Latest / Contractor Business Builder Podcast / Kyle Hunt’s Playbook for Growing a Remodeling Company Without Longer Hours

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Kyle Hunt’s Playbook for Growing a Remodeling Company Without Longer Hours · Contractor Business Builder Podcast

0:00
Welcome to another insightful episode of the Contractor
0:03
Business Builder podcast. Today we've got Kyle Hunt.
0:06
So I want you to picture two different remodelers doing the
0:09
same revenue. One is, you know, booked out
0:11
solid. They've got jobs, but panicking,
0:14
working crazy nights, weekends, constantly putting out fires.
0:17
The other one calmer is profitable, got boundaries in
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his business with his clients and his staff.
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Same market, same craft, different operating system.
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So today, Kyle Hunt, she's going to break down what separates
0:28
these two remodelers and what you can install in your company
0:32
to get there. So welcome here, Kyle.
0:34
How are you doing? Today I'm doing well before we
0:36
click the record button, you said, how's your week been?
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And I paused cause when people say hi, how you doing?
0:41
I usually don't say good, how are you doing?
0:44
I usually like to think about it, which I would encourage
0:46
anybody listen to this. Don't be so quick to just give
0:48
the pat answer. Like I actually think when
0:51
somebody says it. And when I did that, I was like,
0:53
you know what, Eric's actually been a good week and here's why.
0:56
And we talked about that. So I did answer your question.
0:58
Yeah, good. Today's good.
1:00
But I wanted to had that context.
1:02
Yeah, thanks for having me. Definitely, yeah.
1:04
It's so easy just saying everything's good or it's fine,
1:07
right, and not really be able to talk about a conversation.
1:10
But, you know, so many people have gone through or going
1:13
through similar things to yourself and are really actually
1:15
interested in what you're doing, not just, you know, a good very
1:19
fine. And just being real, right, just
1:21
being real and honest is a good approach.
1:24
Now more than ever, people are really craving that authenticity
1:27
and human connection, right? We're all stuck on our phones or
1:30
on the computer or whatever. So owners on the remote or
1:34
modelers on the rise. You're the owner of of that
1:36
company and what was your biggest like aha moments?
1:40
I think it was 2008 when you stepped out and and started
1:44
helping remodelers. What was the decision there, the
1:48
lead up to that? I worked for a remodeling
1:50
company kind of handling their marketing and advertising and
1:53
managing their showroom and their for designers got involved
1:56
on the financial side of the business.
1:57
So kind of the aha moment as far as why I wanted to start my
2:01
business is I've always it's been bent towards being an
2:03
entrepreneur just from from growing up.
2:06
And my first business was doing some website hosting and design
2:08
and I started buying and selling baseball cards online.
2:11
Just did a lot of different, different things like that.
2:14
And in 2008 I turned to my wife and I said, honey, we got one
2:18
kid, another one on the way. It's a crappy economy here in
2:20
Michigan. 2008, 2009, we got no money in the bank to fall back
2:24
on. And I want to quit my job, start
2:26
my own business. To which, of course, she said
2:28
what, Derek? Are you crazy?
2:30
Yeah, kind of like that. I think she's going to revision
2:33
revisionist history did a little bit to her credit, though, she's
2:37
like, no, no, no. I knew he was going to be
2:38
entrepreneurial. So I just, I, we've always been
2:41
bent towards the entrepreneur side.
2:42
And in particular really shortly after I started my business, I
2:47
said, you know what, I'm gonna put my flag in the ground.
2:49
I love the remodeling industry. It is full of a lot of wonderful
2:53
people. There's also some knuckleheads
2:54
in there, but those aren't, this is part of the industry, but the
2:58
great majority is full of hard working, want to do right by the
3:02
client, want to perform the work well and deliver a great service
3:06
people. And that that level of
3:08
excellence that remodelers have as far as building the project,
3:12
as far as doing it and delivering the results and
3:16
knowing how to do that, that's high.
3:19
As far as the business side and figuring out how to market and
3:23
sell and build a team and lead A-Team and understand how all of
3:27
the financials come together. There's usually a gap between
3:30
your skill at doing the work and delivering it and where your
3:33
business skills are. And, and for me, I'm like, man,
3:36
I could, I could help people improve and bring up their
3:40
business skills up to their level of construction skills.
3:44
And and that's been what I've been doing for almost 18.
3:46
Years, yeah, love the distinction there where lottery
3:50
modelers, you're great at what you do because you've gone
3:53
through that trial and error, you've made the mistakes, you've
3:56
been mentored or or apprenticed by somebody in the industry
3:59
typically, and that's why you're good at what you do.
4:01
But the business side of things, often there's a disconnect
4:04
there, you know, like myself being thought of, you know,
4:06
Business School or have specific person that that really told me
4:10
exactly how to run a business. And there's a lot of mistakes
4:13
and even just Gray areas where you're not sure about things.
4:16
So could you speak to some of those key skills that you see
4:21
kind of a deficiency for remodelers or you know in the in
4:24
the business where they need to kind of level up or or get?
4:27
Some early on all roads point back to financials, to numbers,
4:31
numbers, numbers. Whether Derek, you do you do
4:35
business coaching the remodelers and builders similar, similar to
4:38
me. You know, there's a lot of
4:39
coaches, consultants out there over the years.
4:42
All of us in a lot of ways are saying the same thing and we're
4:46
saying something that a lot of you listening already know to be
4:51
the case. I have got to have a handle on
4:53
my numbers. I need to understand my profit
4:56
and loss statement. My profit loss statement needs
4:58
to be organized properly. I got my revenue coming in, cost
5:01
of goods sold equals gross profit.
5:03
I need to understand what gross profit means.
5:05
I need to look calculate my gross profit margin.
5:08
I need to know that and distinguish between markup and
5:11
margin. I need to be solid with my
5:13
estimating job costing, Oh baby, job costing.
5:18
I need to dial in and understand what I'm expecting my cost to be
5:23
on the project and then all the different areas and what the
5:26
actual actually came in at. If I can on projects, no my job
5:31
costing expected and actual, I become a better estimator
5:34
because I recognize I went 10 hours over on demo.
5:37
I need to adjust that next time I become a better project
5:40
manager because I'm going to lead my team and my trade
5:42
partners. They're not subcontractors by
5:44
the way, they're trade partners. I need to lead them better.
5:48
I become a better salesperson because I know and I'm more
5:50
confident in I need to charge this amount of markup and margin
5:54
on this project in order for everything to come to place.
5:57
So, so many of the hundreds of remodelers I've had the
6:00
privilege of working with and interacting with, It really
6:04
starts with that foundation of you need to know your numbers
6:07
and be confident on that. When that foundation is built,
6:10
your ability to hire people become so much better.
6:13
Your ability to invest dollars and marketing becomes less risky
6:17
and easier. Your ability to learn and
6:19
practice and improve your sales process becomes so much better.
6:23
So that's probably the most common thing and I'm guessing
6:26
you probably experience that too and see that a lot.
6:28
Definitely it's an area that needs improvement for, for a lot
6:32
of remodelers. But just on the, the, the
6:35
organization systems side, but also just in the, the knowledge
6:39
side of things is I think every remodeler's been there where
6:42
they get to an end of project or time of the year and it's like,
6:45
am I making any money? Like I, you know, if, if you're,
6:48
if you're unsure, then there's definitely a disconnect and you
6:51
need to go tighten up your numbers and and get some
6:54
guidance or some knowledge there.
6:56
Now even even going back to where you opened with two
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pitcher 2 remodelers, same revenue, $1,000,000 of revenue
7:02
coming in. You said one is once booked out
7:04
but is panicking, is working nights and weekends, constant
7:08
fires. The other is Palmer Profitable
7:11
has boundaries. The biggest difference, the
7:14
biggest difference between those two is their understanding and
7:18
clarity and confidence in financials, the panicking
7:22
working nights and weekends. I bet you that they're not
7:24
charging enough. That person is not watching the
7:26
job costing. They're estimating very poorly
7:28
and things are coming in a lot higher than the normal.
7:31
They're not getting a fixed price from their plumber.
7:33
They're just putting a number in for plumbing and they get the
7:36
price from the plumber, the actual invoice from the plumber,
7:38
and it's $1000 more than what they're expecting.
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The calmer, profitable, have boundaries Remodeler also is
7:45
doing more and more work up front before a hammer hits the
7:48
job site there, there's a design in place, there is a detailed
7:52
scope of work. There are selections that are
7:54
made before the project starts, which leads to the project going
7:58
smoother, less fires, stays on budget, stays on schedule.
8:02
Though that the number side is the biggest difference, not the
8:05
only difference, but the biggest difference between the one and
8:08
the other. Yeah, definitely.
8:10
And the numbers often stem from, you know, marketing, branding,
8:15
estimating. That's sort of where the
8:17
profitability gets set. And then as you mentioned, the
8:19
efficiency of the project is really determined in the pre
8:22
planning like so much of the business is hinging.
8:26
And it's important to have that beginning process of lead Gen.
8:31
to test estimating to preconstruction.
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Yet that's often where there's this vicious cycle of
8:37
contractors who, you know, maybe are short on funds or don't have
8:40
great financials in place, needing to kind of rush into the
8:43
next project or sell the next client.
8:45
And they, you know, they underbid or undersell or they
8:47
end up, you know, putting out a lot of investments out there and
8:50
they get the clients that or the jobs that they've underbid or
8:53
that maybe aren't willing to pay as much.
8:55
Can you talk a bit to those, those early stages of what
8:57
should happen kind of in the marketing and estimating to
9:00
ensure that the business can have strong financials and
9:03
profits? Mean what?
9:04
What you're describing there and there's probably a decent number
9:07
of people who are in that stage or are trying to get out of that
9:12
stage. That stage of I am still
9:15
swinging the hammer pretty much full time.
9:18
I've started to get maybe a little bit of help in the field
9:20
around me. I've started to sub out and get
9:23
some trade partners for the tile work or the drywall work
9:26
starting to move in that direction.
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But I'm swinging the hammer and then I take a break at 3:00 and
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do a sales call. I put together a kind of a
9:35
basics kind of crappy estimate with a lot of missing things or
9:40
a lot of not detailed and a lot of allowances.
9:44
And I'm, I'm sending invoice in the evening and I'm following
9:47
up. A lot of people that are
9:49
listening to this probably either have, have lived there or
9:52
are living there. And how do we, how do we get out
9:54
of it? How do we move out of that
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section? I'm telling you, and this isn't
9:59
from this isn't, let me have a hypothesis of how we can get out
10:02
of this. This is, these are experiences
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#1 you need to be sick of it. You need to say this is not
10:09
working. I'm working my face off.
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How can I? They'll look at all of these
10:14
people that have kind of made it through that stage into other
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stages. Not that we have to compare
10:19
ourselves or build them up on a pedestal because guess what?
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They've got plenty of issues in their business.
10:24
They might be up to debt in the rivals.
10:25
You don't know their story. Comparison can be helpful.
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It can also be the thief of joy, as an old Benjamin Franklin
10:32
said. But one, you got to kind of be
10:34
sick of it. I'm tired of doing this.
10:36
It's not working. What needs to change and then
10:40
shut your mouth? What needs to change and then
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shut it and then say, OK, I need to, I need to seek out the
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answer to that. I need to go on ChatGPT and
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start searching on there. I need to go into YouTube and
10:51
watch some videos from Derek. I need to go listen to this Kyle
10:54
guy. He's put out 376 episode of the
10:56
Rollers on the Rise podcast. And I did find some stuff
10:59
related to financials or the stages in a business.
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And I need to listen to that and I need to approach it with fresh
11:05
eyes and a fresh attitude, not from a defeated attitude that
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you know what? I've tried this before.
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It doesn't work. I could never charge that
11:12
amount. I don't like you're going to be
11:14
sitting in this stage for a long time if you've got a piss poor
11:17
attitude about it. I'm sorry I'm cussing so much,
11:20
Derek. I'm just being very direct.
11:22
Passionate. That's wonderful.
11:23
You're like piss poor as a customer.
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They kind of is to me. That's about as that's about as
11:27
violent as I get. So that's part of it.
11:29
And then it frankly it goes back to the numbers you need to on
11:32
that project, figure out what you need to charge in order to
11:36
kick out some decent solid roast profit.
11:40
Then after you pay your overhead expenses, net profit so that you
11:43
can get some breathing room until you have some good solid
11:47
gross profit and net profit, You're not going to be able to
11:49
hire that person for 15 hours a week to help you in the office.
11:52
You're not going to be able to start to bring on a kind of a
11:56
1099 assistant type position to help you produce a little bit
11:59
more. You've got to make sure even on
12:02
this, even the smaller stages of your business that you're
12:05
turning a profit. And you can absolutely do it.
12:08
You gotta do, you gotta be sick of it and you got to dig into
12:11
solutions. And it starts with the
12:12
financials. And a lot of people that are in
12:14
that they would rate themselves 2 out of 10 on financials, one
12:17
being pitiful, 10 being amazing. They'd say I'm probably a two.
12:20
It's confusing, Kyle, I don't understand it.
12:23
You can go from A2 to a 6A2 to A7 quickly.
12:26
I'm telling you, you can. And when you get it up to six or
12:28
seven or that's a teenager thing.
12:31
Is that up in Canada, by the way, that's six, seven thing.
12:33
Or is that just? Everywhere.
12:35
Yeah, it's, I think it's done here as of March 2026.
12:38
But you get that up to A6 or A7 and all of a sudden light bulbs
12:42
are gonna be going off. So that's kind of my answer to
12:45
that passion. Of the answer to that love it
12:47
really. And financials is one of the
12:50
easier things that you can fix, You know, you're not having to
12:54
restructure the business or hire a bunch of people.
12:56
It's it's really just hunker down, get some help, learn some,
13:00
you know, financial management and start to implement.
13:03
Now we've talked about financials, the money side of
13:05
the business. Very important that kind of
13:07
early stage remodeler, as you mentioned, maybe getting off the
13:10
tools or building out a team. What about the guys more
13:14
experienced the been in this for a while?
13:16
They're probably doing a couple mile post possibly revenue.
13:19
They've got a small team. They're not in the tools are in
13:22
the weed so to say, but they're they're successful, they're
13:25
making money, but they're just busy all the time.
13:29
Still very much kind of a bottleneck as far as large fires
13:32
go with clients or some of the bigger decisions of the
13:34
business. Yeah.
13:36
How do they start to carve back some of their time and delegates
13:40
and kind of get out of the the kind of even project might the
13:43
probably in the project manager or maybe a little bit senior
13:46
management roles, but still very involved with the entire
13:49
business? Yeah.
13:50
How did they kind of reignite some passion for themselves?
13:54
Maybe they've been in this 1015 years.
13:56
It's kind of like a mundane everyday making money but could
14:00
be better kind of thing. How would you help that
14:02
remodeler kind of level up or get their time back?
14:05
I like that. I like that I'm putting myself
14:07
in that person's shoes for a second.
14:09
And you especially got me when you mentioned, you know, kind of
14:12
reignite the passion a little bit.
14:14
They're kind of just going through the motions.
14:16
It's been this way for a while. It's fine.
14:18
It could be better. What I would say is write out.
14:22
Write out what your five year vision for your business is.
14:25
Some people do 3, some people do 10.
14:27
Some people do go way out there. What's your dream Then just give
14:31
me five years out. What does that look like?
14:34
What are you going to be doing less of in your business?
14:37
What do you want to be doing outside of work that would be
14:40
fulfilling to you? Tell me kind of what you think
14:43
the revenue and the team size is like.
14:45
Paint that picture and five years is nice because you can't
14:48
immediately go into how do I do this code?
14:50
No, no, no, give me that vision. Give me that five year vision.
14:53
I have found for myself and for a lot of my clients that if you
14:57
can get real clear with a five year vision and it's something
15:01
that you're excited about and it's something that's a little
15:04
bit of a stretch, but that you think, you know what, that's
15:07
something I should be shooting for.
15:09
When you come back into the here and now and you look at 2026 or
15:14
even you look at the second quarter of 2026, what do I need
15:18
to be doing in this upcoming quarter to move towards that
15:22
five year vision? I have seen that reignite and
15:25
get people fired up quite a bit. So that's one way you can
15:28
approach it and hopefully that resonated with some people.
15:31
The nearer term, like I'm kind of overwhelmed, I'm bottleneck,
15:35
I'm feeling stuck is let's do a little exercise for the next
15:39
couple of weeks and really list out what you are spending your
15:43
time doing or make a little bar. Let's make a little pie chart
15:47
and divide out what percent of your time is estimating time.
15:51
Percent of your time is project management.
15:53
What percentage of your time is this?
15:55
And in a year from now, there will be another way of looking
15:58
at it. A year from now or even 6 months
16:00
from now, how do you want that division of things you're doing
16:05
to look different? Maybe you want to do a lot less
16:07
project management so that you can do the following.
16:10
Have a little less time that you're working in the business,
16:12
whatever. Well, if that's the case and you
16:14
already have a project manager that's kind of sort of doing OK,
16:18
or a lead Carpenter. Now we can get real specific.
16:21
How do I empower those people? How do I train those people?
16:24
How do I lead those people better to take on more
16:26
responsibility? That would be another way to do
16:29
it. Another way is you need to stop
16:31
sticking your nose in things so much.
16:33
Set up structures to allow your team to do what they do and take
16:37
on that responsibility and stop micromanaging.
16:40
That might be the answer. You're hearing multiple ways.
16:42
I'd have to hear the exact person and what they're stuck
16:45
with and why they're not passionate.
16:46
But those are three kind of areas that I start poking at to
16:50
figure out like, what's the issue here?
16:53
Here's the other thing. Maybe it's because your marriage
16:55
is a mess that you're feeling miserable at work.
16:57
How about you don't do anything related to fix your business and
17:01
you go put that focus and vigor and love and energy towards
17:05
making your home life better and watch how that has a direct
17:09
correlation to you enjoying your work more.
17:11
Another one. Shut your stinking laptop.
17:14
It's 5:00. Be done for the day.
17:17
The work will be there tomorrow. Set up a boundary.
17:20
Go read a book tonight. Go for a walk tonight, go hit
17:23
some balls at the driving range, go fishing, go take your spouse
17:28
on a date, whatever kind of fills your bucket a little bit.
17:31
Stop working so much. Set some boundaries there.
17:33
There's some ideas for you, Derek.
17:35
Lots of avenues and as you mentioned, you know the specific
17:38
person or business, the strategy or or the advice may may be a
17:43
bit different there. I like the the last things that
17:46
you mentioned there with if your passion is missing or you're
17:49
feeling, you know, great about your your business, It's
17:52
probably more to do going to be with your personal life.
17:56
And you've just been kind of sapping the energy out of
17:58
yourself, working crazy hours or putting all your focus on your
18:03
business. When you need to start focusing
18:04
on help yourself, your family life outside the business and
18:08
have some of those boundaries to shut off.
18:11
Say, you know, as important as this may seem, your life is more
18:17
important and making sure that you're enjoying it is at the end
18:20
of the day what what it's about. Success at business.
18:23
Success in business, making $400,000 of owner compensation
18:28
and good benefits and all that fun stuff is not, should not
18:33
ought not come at the expense of not being present as spouse or
18:38
if you're not married, just being a good a good family
18:40
member, a good friends to people, enjoying your hobbies
18:43
that you enjoy, enjoying your faith life, enjoying, you know,
18:46
investing in your kids, kids lives.
18:48
Whatever the case is for you, we need to make sure business has a
18:51
way of getting its little fangs into so much of your time and
18:55
your mental space and all of that.
18:58
And we need to guard against that as business owners.
19:00
Because I've been in business 18 years, I haven't found the end
19:03
of my To Do List yet, Derek. Yeah, it always seems to get
19:07
longer. And when you do find the end of
19:09
it, you just find more stuff to put on it.
19:10
So. Which is fun.
19:11
That's part of what's fun. But as long as that doesn't
19:14
overwhelm us, and it ought not. Yeah, and make sure that your
19:18
happiness or enjoyment isn't contingent on some future goal.
19:22
Like, you know, when I reach X revenue, then I can take a
19:26
vacation or take a day off or or whatever, right.
19:30
It's it's good to have some rewards.
19:32
But when you're always kind of just pushing yourself in the
19:36
moment to reach some outcome, when that outcome comes, you're
19:38
going to continue to push yourself because you you've
19:40
developed these habits and this this mindset essentially of, of
19:44
where you're at now. Taking a little step back there.
19:46
You mentioned about your team and not being so involved with
19:51
maybe the, the minute details or small nitty gritty stuff in, in
19:54
the business. He talked about that, where
19:56
maybe an owner has been very involved.
19:59
They know they need to step back, stop micromanaging, but
20:02
when they do, they just have more fires to put out or the
20:05
numbers seem to take a dive or or whatever the reason.
20:08
How can owners do those handoffs or create the environment where
20:14
they know work is going to be getting done properly or that
20:17
people can handle the responsibilities that they're
20:20
giving? Yeah, there's just a different.
20:21
There's a difference between still leading and managing your
20:24
team. We're absolutely not saying hey
20:26
just go right on the boat all day and do whatever him remember
20:29
we talked about work life balance means you're not gonna
20:31
work No, that's not what we're talking about there's a
20:33
difference between leading and managing your team let's say a
20:36
project manager as an example. A project manager that is we get
20:40
through the design and project development and the sales
20:43
process. We sign the project, it's a nice
20:45
$100,000 kitchen project. And we are now handing that off
20:49
to our project manager who's going to manage the schedule,
20:53
manage the budget, manage change orders, manage the client
20:56
interaction, line up our in-house team and our trade
20:59
partners. Like that's that person's job
21:01
and they might be managing a couple of those projects at the
21:04
same time. How do we manage and lead them
21:07
well and not, have you done this?
21:10
Hey, what about this? No, I'll go ahead and take care
21:12
of that, John. I'll just go ahead and do that
21:14
of the micromanaged Part 1 is you need to have an organized
21:19
cadence of regular, let's say in this case, production meetings
21:23
once a week. It has an agenda.
21:26
People come prepared for it. Another good way of doing it is
21:30
that project manager has a couple KPIs, key performance
21:33
indicators. That project manager for the
21:35
four projects they're managing, they have a thing that says 2
21:40
week look ahead, two week look ahead, updated question mark.
21:43
And for each of those projects, it's either a yes or a no.
21:46
And that yes carries some weight.
21:48
That yes means you've actually updated the two week look ahead.
21:51
You have thought through the in-house labour, you have
21:54
notified trade partners if they're needed or if anything's
21:58
adjusted. You have Sittard what kind of
22:00
material we need to make sure it's lined up and make sure it's
22:03
there like that, yes, carries some weight.
22:05
And if that says no, that gives me as a manager saying, hey, I
22:08
see the Smith project doesn't have the two week look ahead
22:11
updated. Tell me about that.
22:12
Just didn't have time to get it done before the meeting.
22:14
It's a priority for this afternoon.
22:16
Excellent. Let me know when that's set or
22:18
if you get stuck on anything. Appreciate it.
22:20
That conversation is much more organized.
22:23
So I'm just kind of given a couple examples of what that
22:26
could look like of leading with structured, organized,
22:30
consistent meetings. That is something I see.
22:33
I see inconsistent, not structured, wild meetings where
22:38
we get stuck on something and spend 30 minutes on it and it's
22:41
like, oh, we are not doing this right.
22:43
And also KPIs are really effective way to give that
22:47
project manager or a designer or an office manager, let them kind
22:51
of know how this is, this is what's valuable.
22:53
Good KPI means if I'm doing these KPIs, the result that
22:57
we're looking for of delivering this project to a happy client
23:01
on time and on schedule is going to happen.
23:04
So if I manage against those KPIs, good things will be
23:07
happening downstream as a result of it.
23:10
And I think a lot of times we're just not thoughtful with some of
23:14
that basic management and leading.
23:17
And those are some those are some examples that hopefully
23:20
kind of ring a bell or give some light bulb moments for people
23:22
listening. Definitely.
23:24
I kind of felt there's two components that you mentioned.
23:28
There were having some structure in place.
23:30
So the project manager in this example knows what to do, knows
23:35
what's important and there's lines of communication.
23:39
And then the, the leadership of the owner to put that system in
23:43
place, follow up with the project manager and be that
23:48
support for them essentially so they can take the ball run with
23:51
it. And, and they know what those
23:54
those KPI's are those indicators of, of success essentially in,
23:57
in their, their role of the business.
23:59
Yes, absolutely. A couple other things.
24:00
One is sit down with that team member that you're wanting to
24:03
take on more responsibility and say something like, I need to
24:07
stop being so involved in filling the blank.
24:10
First of all, they're going to go thank you, let me do my job.
24:14
There's a little bit of that that they might be thinking or
24:16
saying, and I'm going to need your help with that.
24:19
I'm going to try to kind of ease off it, but at the same time,
24:22
I'm going to need some clarity on my end to know that it's
24:27
happening so that I can really let go of it.
24:29
So we're going to be doing this weekly meeting.
24:31
We're going to be doing these KPIs.
24:33
The other thing to kind of keep in mind is when you're training
24:35
somebody, you don't just show it to them and then it's, it's done
24:39
and you consider it done. That's why things get clunky.
24:42
No, no, no. When we train, we do, we kind of
24:45
go around the circle and the speed at which we go around the
24:47
circle depends, but we go around the circle of all right, I do,
24:51
you watch, I do you help you do I help and then you do and I go
24:57
relax or whatever the case is, right.
24:59
But like you're fully in charge of it.
25:01
So when we're delegating things, I think we speed through that
25:04
too often or we do 1 little training and we're like, why
25:07
aren't they doing it? That's just bad leadership.
25:10
It takes some of these things take time.
25:12
You need to manage the process. You need to remind them of the
25:15
process. You need to praise them when
25:18
they're doing aspects of the process So they're like, all
25:20
right, we are following this new process more.
25:22
You need to evaluate the process consistently to see if it's too
25:25
clunky. If there's things we're doing
25:27
that's overkill, that's leading, that's managing as you grow your
25:30
business. Here's the other thing of that
25:31
person that's kind of stalled out in their business.
25:33
Things are going well and they've got a team.
25:35
You need to change your mindset from whatever you've had in your
25:38
mindset to I am a leader. I'm a leader.
25:41
Holy cow, I miss swinging the hammer.
25:44
I miss doing this. I miss being project manager.
25:48
You know what, I've built my business up more of my job is
25:50
now managing my team. And as soon as you flip the
25:54
switch on that and go, that's my job now.
25:56
You start reading leadership books, you Start learning how to
25:58
manage meetings more effectively.
26:00
You learn how to praise people, you learn how to hold people
26:03
accountable. As soon as you start to do more
26:05
of that, the team starts to take off.
26:07
The business gets a little more compassion.
26:09
But I see people resist that a lot.
26:11
Yeah. I find the strength of a
26:13
business and the kind of level that you can rise in in a
26:16
business is, is directly tied to the leadership of the owner as
26:22
well as the team. Like you are essentially leading
26:24
leaders, your project manager, yes, they're managing, but they
26:27
are a leader to the people that, you know, trade partners, as you
26:30
mentioned, the the field crew, the other, you know, various
26:33
members of the company that they have to deal with and work
26:35
together with. And so if you, I guess, aren't
26:39
at a certain level of leadership, it's hard to train
26:41
your people to also be, to be leaders and, and to have that
26:44
flow through your company. And I think that's, that's
26:46
definitely where some of the magic happens when, when a
26:50
company is really operating on a high level.
26:52
Now, Speaking of leadership and training, and I think training
26:56
is a missed opportunity for a lot of contractors where
27:00
especially a little old school, it's kind of like throw them in
27:02
the swimming pool, see if they swim and hope for the best, you
27:05
know, swing your arms. Having good onboarding training
27:07
just really sets the stage and, and sets people for success and
27:10
will make, yes, it takes more time, as you mentioned in, in
27:13
the short term, but in the long term, you, you're really putting
27:17
key people in place with the right training, essentially the
27:20
right knowledge to be able to do their job effectively.
27:22
Where I'm going with this is you have peer groups with
27:25
remodelers. Can you talk about what kind of
27:27
the benefits of the peer group are?
27:29
Who's a good fit for those? How leadership comes about and
27:33
and people make progress inside of a peer environment.
27:36
A lot of people who have worked with rollers on their eyes,
27:39
either we've done some one-on-one coaching and they
27:41
kind of move into peer groups after that or they're part of
27:45
something called the VIP Club, which is kind of built for
27:48
companies that are million and a half and below in revenue and
27:51
really getting that financial and marketing and sales and
27:54
leadership foundation in place. The peer groups we have, we have
27:57
5 different peer groups with with 9 or 10 companies in each.
28:01
And as an example, on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday next week,
28:05
there's gonna be 9 business owners coming here to Michigan,
28:08
one of my peer groups, and we're going to spend 2 1/2 days of
28:12
doing kind of a retreat. Everybody's coming with their
28:14
hot seat, their most pressing thing they're trying to work on.
28:17
Everybody has submitted their report to peers, all of their
28:20
financials, their cash flow side of things, their owner comp,
28:23
their backlog of signed work, their marketing metrics, their
28:27
leadership challenges, and we've got that all printed out.
28:30
They're reviewing it. What ends up happening is when
28:33
you are around like minded business owners, you recognize
28:38
I'm not the only one having this issue.
28:40
Running a business is lonely sometimes.
28:42
So getting, getting coaching, getting help from somebody like
28:46
you, Derek of even one-on-one coaching or going through
28:49
courses, getting involved in remodelers on the rise and then
28:52
peer groups just that encouragement and like, well, if
28:54
they're doing it, I can do it. Or feeling like, you know, I
28:57
could pick up the phone and call 8 other remodelers around the
29:00
country because I'm stuck on this.
29:01
And I know that so and so has already done this or handled
29:04
this or has a form for this or has a process for that.
29:07
It just speeds peer groups and coaching.
29:09
It speeds up your clarity of what you need to do and it
29:13
speeds up the time it takes to get these improvements that you
29:17
desperately need in your business in place.
29:20
It speeds that up. Something that if you're trying
29:22
to figure it out on your own, might take five years.
29:24
All of a sudden, within a year, you've got that in place and
29:28
it's helping you be more efficient or productive or
29:31
profitable or help you generate more leads or help you close
29:34
more sales. So that's where that's where
29:36
kind of the magic of coaching in general really comes in, in the
29:40
form you've probably seen that. Yeah, no need to reinvent the
29:44
wheel. There is, you know, lots of
29:46
people that have done this. And that's another, you know,
29:50
part of leadership, if you if you will.
29:52
You don't have to do everything yourself if you know the, the,
29:55
the lone wolf in business is, is not really a thing.
29:58
Business is a team sport. And you know, the better and
30:02
more involved people can have on your team, the the better you're
30:05
going to do. Can can you share with us the
30:07
success story of somebody you've either coach one-on-one or has
30:10
been the peer group kind of where they started some of the
30:13
key things you guys worked on are implemented and and how that
30:17
translated into, you know, the improvement of their business?
30:20
Yeah, I've gotten that. I've gotten that question over
30:23
the years. And it's, it's interesting
30:24
because I think a lot of people when you, when you ask that
30:27
question, I think what people expect to hear is a story around
30:31
revenue growth, around profits of around, you know, the, the,
30:36
the money side. And there's certain, there's
30:38
certainly that there's certainly people that have gone for 1
30:41
million up to 5 million in revenue, gone from crappy gross
30:44
profit and net profit up to 20% total owner compensation of, you
30:48
know, between salary and net profit.
30:50
You know, and you could do the math on a $4 million company at
30:53
20%, you know, it, it's, it's a good number.
30:55
So there's certainly that, but you need to know the whole story
30:59
in order to know that. What if that person is working
31:01
their face off so much that it screwed up their personal life?
31:04
Building a growing business is not, is not for the faint of
31:07
heart. It's hard work.
31:08
So when I answer that question, I usually think of a little bit
31:12
more micro stories like a guy like Stu Kavner with Innovative
31:16
Builders and Remodelers and in Rockford, MI.
31:19
I remember early on working with him and in particular on their
31:21
sales process and him going, I'm like, alright, so when are you
31:25
meeting with people? Well, kinda, I take a lot of
31:27
evening appointments, like people just wanna meet in the
31:29
evening at 6:00 because they're, you know, they're both working
31:32
during the day. So I end up doing that and well,
31:35
how's that working? You got 2 little kids, right?
31:38
Yeah. How's your, was your wife?
31:39
Think of that. And he's like, it's not really
31:41
good. And I said, what if I told you
31:43
you need to stop doing? Well, I can't.
31:45
I need to do that. Alright, let's try this too.
31:48
One night a week, you do that instead of these three nights
31:51
that you're doing. One night a week, you do that.
31:53
What day of the week is gonna work best for you guys?
31:55
Tuesday nights, OK, Tuesday nights, you do that on Tuesday
31:57
nights. Other than that, you do not do
32:00
that. And start offering your clients
32:03
when they say, well, when can you meet?
32:05
You can say I do 1 evening appointment every Tuesday.
32:08
My next three Tuesdays are booked.
32:10
I can also do, you know, 88 AM on multiple days and I can also
32:14
do a three pretty meeting on multiple days and see what
32:18
happens. And what happens is people
32:20
respect that boundary, talking about boundaries and they start
32:24
to say, you know, we can make the 3:30 work on Thursday.
32:27
We can both kind of be home a little bit early for that.
32:29
I worked from home already. My husband will come home or
32:31
whatever the case is. And that's a small goal that he
32:35
implemented confidence built it started working and wouldn't she
32:38
know at a small sales adjustment and improvement improved his
32:43
home life and how he felt as a dad and how he felt as a
32:46
husband. That to me is the be all end all
32:49
18 years of coaching result. That is a micro example of what
32:54
I go to, right? I spent an hour yesterday
32:56
one-on-one coaching and there's plenty to talk about their
33:00
production side, this and that. All we talked about the whole
33:02
time was their marriage. And I'm kind of a part-time
33:06
marriage counselor. I call myself because I've
33:08
worked with a lot of husband wife teams.
33:09
His name and his wife is actually out.
33:13
They're not listening to this. Is that it?
33:15
Is that an HBA thing, a women's HBA thing?
33:17
And I said, let's, let's shock the world.
33:20
I want you to What do you think of having flowers delivered to
33:25
her hotel? So when she comes back, there's
33:27
a note and a flower delivery from you.
33:30
He's like, what's the logistics of that?
33:31
I could think of that said get bored, Dash.
33:33
It doesn't have to be fancy this and that.
33:35
He texted me this morning. He goes, I executed it.
33:38
First of all, she thought she said, was this a Kyle idea?
33:41
And I said, well, whatever it is what it is.
33:43
And she's like, I think she really appreciated it.
33:46
That's it man. Just keep doing little things
33:48
like that and you know the work life balance will improve and
33:51
all that. So it's stuff like that.
33:52
And yes, going from a 1% or -1% net profit up to a 10% net
33:58
profit is life changing. Figuring out how to improve your
34:02
gross profit and, and charge more and go from 25% up to 35%
34:06
gross profit. So you can hire a full time
34:08
office person, so you can hire a, your first project manager.
34:11
Life changing. There's all kinds of that.
34:14
But bottom line, get your numbers in order.
34:16
Start being profitable, figure it out how to do that, build
34:19
your confidence through that, build your encouragement through
34:22
that, your clarity through that. And running a successful
34:25
remodeling business. There is not a magic bullet.
34:27
It is a combination of a lot of little things and that is
34:31
annoying, really empowering. It is about stacking little
34:36
things after little things, after little improvements and
34:39
you do that week in, week out, month in, month out, year in,
34:41
year out. You are going to be a totally
34:43
different business person and business owner and have a
34:45
totally different business a year later, 2 years later, three
34:49
years later. Also, pat yourself on the back,
34:51
Derek. Pat yourself on the back.
34:53
Kyle, you're better than you were two years ago.
34:55
You've improved a lot. I know things are still clunky.
34:58
Whoever's listening to this, I know things are clunky.
35:00
I know you wish you were further, but you're a lot
35:02
further ahead than you were two years ago, right?
35:04
If not, then that should get your attention.
35:06
But most of you go. No, we haven't proved that
35:09
process. I have gotten better at that.
35:11
I am a better salesperson. I still have a long way to go
35:14
and knowing my numbers, but I'm better at that.
35:16
Pay yourself on the back a little bit.
35:17
Stop focusing on the negatives, look at the positives and maybe
35:20
if you look at the positives a little bit more, you might that
35:23
positivity might be contagious to find more positivity.
35:26
Alright, Derek, that's enough. Sorry, great message, nice and
35:29
positive and it's a balance. A lot of us don't get it right
35:34
for sure in business. And sometimes it doesn't have to
35:37
be complicated. These small, you know, fixes,
35:39
tweaks, as, as you mentioned, just changing the time that
35:42
you're doing sales calls and just setting those boundaries.
35:44
And, and you'll be surprised sometimes at the response you
35:48
get from your team or your clients when you, when you start
35:52
to kind of do things the way that you want to do them.
35:55
And it's your business, you can make the process, you can make
35:58
the policy, you can make the book.
36:00
And, and if the policy is you need time with your family and
36:04
you're not going to be, you know, meeting or doing
36:07
estimates, you know, late at nights and, and things like
36:09
that, then follow it and, and set it and make the like the
36:13
business is your creation. Essentially, you do make the
36:16
rules. You are an employee of the
36:17
business. You know, you want to keep that
36:19
mentality too. You're not that just kind of run
36:21
amok. But yeah, create message, love
36:24
it. It's not the money can be life
36:26
changing, but you got to make sure that it's a life worth
36:30
worth changing at the end. And you got to take care of your
36:33
family and your marriage and all those good things.
36:36
So Kyle, for those out there listening, this sounds great,
36:39
but I know I need some help with this or I want to learn more.
36:41
How do they they get in touch with you or your team?
36:44
Yep, Remodelers on the rise.com, Remodelers on the rise.com,
36:49
that's got kind of all of our information there.
36:51
If you'd listen to podcasts, which you must be because you're
36:54
listening to this, you can just look at Remodelers on the Rise.
36:57
We've got a lot of those episodes out there that you can
36:59
tune into. And then the other thing I would
37:01
say is Remodelers community.com is a free Facebook group that we
37:07
have with about 2500 remodelers in there.
37:10
And when you think Facebook groups, I think most people
37:12
think people just yipping and yapping at each other and being
37:16
rude. It's a really, really, really
37:18
encouraging, very carefully curated, frankly by us over the
37:22
years of who we let in and how the tone and everything works.
37:25
And it's a wonderful place to learn.
37:27
So that would be something. And then if you're listening to
37:29
this August 11th, 12th, 2026, Ann Arbor, MI, the RISE
37:34
Conference, we're doing our second annual RISE Conference.
37:37
You can get a ticket and come to.
37:38
That wonderful. Thanks so much, Kyle.
37:40
We will put links in the description wherever you're
37:42
listening and watching this this episode.
37:44
So go check those out, get in contact with Kyle and his team,
37:47
improve your remodeling business.
37:49
Thanks for coming on here, followed sharing your insights
37:52
and and helping us all out. Thank you for having me.